DPP #37 "Buckle up Punny factory, beat down is coming"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·24m 32s·held·Apr 25, 2023

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Don critiques Punny Factory theme, layout, and pricing while offering constructive advice to Pinball Adventures; discusses Stern's momentum and Foo Fighters (Premium/LE) market strength.

Summary

Don delivers a lengthy, passionate critique of Pinball Adventures' debut game 'Punny Factory,' criticizing its theme, layout (17 stand-up targets with minimal interesting shots), lack of gameplay depth, poor stream presentation, and $6,500–$7,000 pricing as unjustifiable for an untested manufacturer. He emphasizes this from a position of wanting the company to succeed and offers constructive suggestions. He also discusses Stern Pinball strong market position, Foo Fighters (Premium/LE) pricing trends and resale values, and positive experiences playing Stern titles.

Key Claims

Punny Factory has 17 stand-up targets as primary playfield challenge with minimal interesting shots or ramps
high confidence · Don, direct observation from stream gameplay
Punny Factory is priced at $6,500–$7,000, directly on par with a Sam Stern
high confidence · Don, stated as pricing context for his critique
Pinball Adventures is manufacturing 110 units of Punny Factory
high confidence · Don, explicit statement about production run
Foo Fighters (Premium/LE) is priced at $12,999 ($13K), the highest LE price Stern has charged
high confidence · Don, stated as market analysis fact
Foo Fighters (Premium/LE) units are selling out and commanding $15,000–$17,000 on secondary market
medium confidence · Don, based on Pinside marketplace listings observed
Foo Fighters (Premium/LE) are beginning delivery within two days (Wednesday) starting from Fort Myers, Florida distributor
high confidence · Don, citing Facebook posts from Foo Fighters pages indicating distributor contact and shipping dates
Expression Light Kits for Foo Fighters will cost $550–$700 when released
medium confidence · Don, based on pricing precedent from Rush ($499) and Led Zeppelin ($350)
The game's stream presentation was poorly executed with no narration, bad audio quality, and unclear who the people on-stream were
high confidence · Don, direct critique of stream production quality

Notable Quotes

“You're breaking my heart, Punny Factory. Ice picks in my eyes. Ice picks in my ears.”
Don @ ~2:00–3:00 — Establishes Don's emotional investment and personal disappointment with the game reveal
“If this was a homebrew, I'd be like, all right, it's a pretty good homebrew. But because they are asking for $6,500 to $7,000, putting it directly on the par of a Sam Stern, I feel like they're just asking too much from me.”
Don @ ~4:30 — Core thesis: pricing expectations vs. perceived gameplay value
“To make a game like this, it's an 18-month to 24-month process. And so it's a long path to go down if you're committed to a bad idea to begin with.”
Don @ ~6:00 — Critique of theme/concept choice, suggesting poor planning from inception
“I just had the greatest time. I had the best game I ever had on Elvira's House of Horrors (Premium/LE) of Horrors yesterday.”
Don @ ~1:04:00 — Positive testimony to Stern's code depth and gameplay design, contrasting with Punny Factory
“The light shows that were coming on, the music, it all worked together. This is the depth of the code that people have been talking about. This is the magic of that Lyman F. Sheats Jr. code.”
Don @ ~1:04:30 — Recognition of design excellence in Stern title, implies Punny Factory lacks this integration
“If you're going to charge $6,500 for a game from a company that hasn't really put anything out there yet, how about you say, look, you go ahead and trust us, you get this game. Our next game is right around the corner. We're going to take the funds from the sales and the proceeds from this to fund the building of that, and we're going to have more in it. And a way to thank you for being our early supporters, we're going to give you $1,500 off the cost of our next game.”
Don @ ~34:00 — Specific constructive criticism: early adopter incentive to offset resale value risk
“These are going to be priced at $3,800 to $4,400. So your customers, the ones that are going to be funding the early parts of your company, are going to be losing money right off the jump.”

Entities

Donperson Pinball AdventurescompanyPunny FactorygameStern PinballcompanyFoo Fightersgame Jack Dangerperson Lyman F. Sheats Jr.personElvira's House of Horrors (Premium/LE)

Signals

?
product_concern: Punny Factory criticized for minimal engaging gameplay mechanics: 17 stand-up targets dominate playfield; only two notable mechanisms (factory and Varia target); no visible game modes beyond multiball; lack of ramps or wire forms; pop bumpers inaccessible/poorly integrated.
high · Don's detailed breakdown of layout and observed stream gameplay showing limited shot variety and mode progression
?
product_concern: Punny Factory theme (factory making pun-based cartoon characters) lacks broad appeal and market demand; Don suggests alternative themes (Toontown Factory, Splatoon-licensed title) would have been more compelling and commercially viable.
high · Don's opening 15 minutes of critique focused on theme conceptualization and lack of consumer connection to pun-based design
?
product_concern: Punny Factory call-outs feature grating Don Knotts impersonation; repetitive standby music; audio presentation criticized as uninspiring and thematically disconnected.
high · Don's critique of sound design and repeated references to Don Knotts voice and loop music being annoying
?
product_concern: Pinball Adventures' launch stream poorly executed: no narration explaining gameplay; unclear camera work; background audio from off-mic conversations; no identification of on-screen personnel; comparison unfavorably to Jack Danger's high-quality Galactic Tank Force presentation.
high · Extended critique of stream quality starting ~45-minute mark; explicit call-out of poor presentation as harmful to first impression
$
market_signal: Debut manufacturer (Pinball Adventures) priced Punny Factory at $6,500–$7,000 (Stern Pro tier) for a game with minimal competitive feature set; Don argues this is overpriced for unproven company and predicts secondary market resale at $3,800–$4,400 within months, causing early buyers to lose $2,700–$3,200.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.074

0:00

Who's fired up? I'm fired up tonight. I want to talk about something. Start the music. Don's Pinball Podcast coming to you live. I had to do a show tonight because I am fired up after watching that Honey Factory stream. I feel personally attacked. I'm going to get into why and the whys and hows and what have yous of why exactly that is. Here coming up in a minute. I'm just going to fume for a bit. I'm going to try to calm myself down, organize my thoughts, and wait for the drop.

0:30

I need a drink or something. Here we go. Let me get this out of the way first. I'm doing this from a position of trying to be helpful. I want to be positive. I want to help these people out. But my God, watching that stream today, I felt like they were just sticking ice picks in my eyes. Man, what's going on? Ice picks in my eyes. Ice picks in my ears. You're breaking my heart, Pony Factory. And here's the reason why. Okay, this game, looking at it, watching the stream now, if it was a homebrew, I'd be like, all right, it's a pretty good homebrew. You know, maybe I'd play it. Maybe I'd play all three balls. Maybe I'd play two and walk away bored. I don't know. But because they are asking for $6,500 to $7,000, putting it directly on the par of a Stern Pro, I feel like they're just asking too much from me. They're asking too much. They need to get some pushback here. I'm going to try to give them some constructive criticism, as constructive as I can be, because I want them to do well. I want there to be more competition in the marketplace. I think that benefits all of us that don't own pinball companies. I mean, if there's a dark horse company out there making good product, it's going to be a counterbalance to Stern just dominating the entire market, to J.J.P. dominating their space. It'll keep Spooky on their toes. It inspires competition, which brings out the best in the people that are out there. and I'm going to break this game down from what I've been seeing. All right, I watched the stream. I watched an hour of the stream today.

2:04

It's disappointing is what it is because I think there's potential here and it's being wasted and it doesn't have to be. It does not have to be this way. Let's start with the theme, Punny Factory. This is a make-believe factory that makes puns, that makes cartoon characters that are puns. It's half of a lime with a lantern. Get it? He's called Lamplight or Limelight. fantastic okay where did this where did this theme come from you know besides a dumpster nobody is clamoring for this okay you know you would look at the theme of the game and the layout and it looks like a factory that you're in like a make-believe kind of you know kitsy factory and things can be off the wall off the wall is okay junkyard is off the wall that's a game that's bizarre but it's loaded with mechanisms and it's done in a fun way that's interesting which is not what we have here. Okay, so you want to make a factory with cartoon characters. So make that. Make Toontown Factory Explosion Adventure. You know, the factory on the dark side of Toontown, and they're manufacturing fireworks, and some evil cartoon got in there, and things are blowing up, and there's crates popping off, and there's balls locking in places. And then you get your cartoon artist, you know, a fiver or something, to draw up 20 different original cartoon characters. Here's a dog character, here's a rabbit character, here's a carrot character, and here's a wacky cop, right? You know, so you get 20 characters, you put them in this factory, and you play around with it. What is the deal with the puns? That doesn't make any dang sense. I don't have any connection to that. If this was Toontown Funhouse Factory Adventure, I'd be interested from the jump, regardless of what the layout and everything looks like. But Punny Factory, okay, I'll set this straight real quick. To make a game like this, even if the biggest companies, it's an 18-month to 24-month process, from inception to testing to Whitewood to getting the artists where they need to be and then licensing and all that, right? And so it's a long path to go down. It's a long path to go down if you're committed to a bad idea to begin with. So if you're going to go down this path, people, start with a freaking map, you know? Ask some people for directions. Hey, we're going to go down the Pony Factory path. What do you think? I don't think that's a very good idea. I think Toontown Factory Blast Battle would be a much better place to go. Oh, hey, thank you. Hey, we're making this kind of battlefield here with cartoon characters. Can we partner with Nintendo and make a Splatoon game or something? Maybe we'll raise our price $500 to cover some licensing, and there we go. My God. I've got so many. I've got too many ideas coming out. They're like the Pony Factory exploded in my brain, and I've got lamp lights coming out of my nose. So with the theme, I think they could have. you came up with five different thumbnails of a cartoon factory to blow up, and this would be like choice number four at best. Moving on to the layout. Okay, 17 stand-up targets is not fun to me. Okay, guys, this layout is bordered on either side by about 15 stand-up targets, and then there are a few that you can shoot straight on. Those are stand-up targets. They're not the drop targets. Not the targets like a five bank of targets that can drop and then reset, or hey, maybe they drop and there's something interesting to hit on the other side of that. I was watching this gameplay and I didn't see it go into any modes except for a multi-ball. Now, benefit of the doubt, code could be early. I don't know how because this game is supposedly being in production for four years, but there should be some modes or something you can do. I was watching this stream, watching the layout, and I'd see the player, whoever it was at the time, cradle up a ball. And I'm thinking, okay, if I was in that position, right, I'd have the ball cradled. I'd be looking for a shot to shoot, and I couldn't really find anything. There's only two real mechanisms to speak of within the game. The little factory itself, which is kind of set farther back than the Galactic Galaxy Tank Force, Galactic Battle Space Tank. So, I mean, that's okay. And then the other thing is this little Varia target off to the left that didn't seem to really do much. Again, maybe something's waiting to be coded later. But, like, that's it. You hit those two things, and then what, right? Where are the ramps? Can I get a ramp Can I get a wire form Can I get something to shoot There an orbit but when I was watching the stream it didn even orbit there two gates up there at the top that stop it and then it rolls over those in-lane targets and can we talk about those two okay this is a classic theme or the scheme or uh a a form of construction within pinball right you got the three targets up top you roll through those lanes you can control which ones are lit with the flippers you light them all and you get a multiplier, right? So what happens? You light two lights, and you go and you get that third one, and then what happens? They strobe to let you know, like, hey, you were awarded a prize, and then they go blank. These, and again, code can fix this, but when I saw them all light up, they just go out, and that's it. And then, you know, the little four-inch LCD screen in the back plays a little multiplier. You know, like, so what am I shooting at here? Let's talk about the factory mix. So supposedly there's 50 of these pun cartoon creepy demon characters in the game. And when you shoot into the factory, which is guarded by a drop target, there's a Vuck in there. And that Vuck shoots up, throws the ball through that little clear plexiglass toilet paper roll. And then it goes down this, you know, winding Lombard Street kind of motif. And then back to the in lane. And like that's it as far as somewhere you can shoot the ball where it does something interesting. The Varia target didn't look great to me. There's a bank of pop bumpers, but they're sitting behind the factory. So there's no way to really get in there unless you try to shoot this half orbit and have it drain down through the lanes. Or you hook it around off one of the 17 stand-up targets. Maybe that's what they're for. Pop bumpers are fun. I like pop bumpers in pinball. They remind me of pinball. I like that. But do something interesting with them. In this case, they're sitting there like Galactic Tank Force sitting behind the tank where they're not really approachable or interactive or really serve a point. If you look at games like Iron Maiden, look at games like Rush. These pop bumpers are all cloistered off to the side, and there's actually a path you can thread the needle through these things to hit an orbit, and it feels good when you do that. You can throw it up into the pops, and it pops around in there to kind of build up jet scores or something, like with Medieval Madness. These, I didn't see any of that. And again, it could be rescued with code, but it's been years already here, guys. So what is there interesting to shoot in this game? I couldn't find anything. I don't want to just sit and hit stand-up targets all day, And especially if I fill up the stand-up targets, give me something. Give me some kind of payoff. Go into a mode. Go into like, you know, punny free-for-all where these things are running all over the place. Or like a projector comes on and then light up on the play field. Give me something. You know, I can't complain too much about the lights. The lights were good. I mean, somebody had, you know, kind of orchestrated a package with, you know, some kind of, you know, program to go ahead and put like an interesting enough light show. I think the lights themselves are fine. but when it comes to the music can i get to the sounds and call outs what is up with the don knots impersonator i feel like i'm in mayberry as a character in a cast of characters he'd be kind of fun right i'm thinking like diner i'm thinking like taxi uh you know where there's all these uh different caricatures of real people that would come out like that would be interesting elvira house of horrors does this fantastic when there's five different floating heads that you can get out of the deadhead crypt and each one is a kitsy kind of send up of some kind of characteristic you know whether it's the boston guy or the weird mummy or the old lady you know so that would fit in there but the whole game don not screaming to me whoa we got to get these ponies back to the farm or whatever you know um that was grating the the standby music when a new player is coming up and it just sits there and just like like that's it over and over my god i was going crazy so the layout needs some help i mean it's you know where that very is back there next to the orbit, just put a plastic ramp. And you don't have to spend a lot of engineering costs. Go buy a rack of the plastic ramps from Elvira. Throw one of those things in there. At least give me something interesting that I can shoot. And if I could get a wire form, that would be fantastic. If you're going to ask for $6,500, I just played Foo Fighters Pro on location about an hour ago. There's ramps and locations and pathways galore in there. Look at that and pick two things and put them in your game and then ask for $6,500. But if you're going to ask for $6,500 for 17 stand-up targets, pop bumpers that don't make sense, and an orbit that I can't orbit while Don Knotts is screaming at me, and I've got to sit there with the brr-brr-brr-brr-brr. Come on, bro. Bruh. Focus group, man. You know, people are out there. People want to help. Have me sign an NDA. I'll come in there, and I'll give you my support, man. You know, you're launching a brand-new company. Like, all eyes are on this, right? And there's drawing comparisons with Spooky Pinball. America's Most Haunted was a game that was built, only 150 of them, just to get them out there. And they curried goodwill, and they sold those games, and they used the profits from those games to make their next games. And I know that that's where these guys are going. I know that the introductory price for a professional-made pinball machine is right around $6,000, but come on, bro. You've got to do the work here. Throw a couple of ramps in there or something. Now, let's talk about a little bit of marketing, something I think that would have made this a lot more palatable. They're making 110 of these. These are going to be bought by people that are going out and risking buying a brand new game from an untested company. How about if you're going to charge $6,500 for a game from a company that hasn't really put anything out there yet, how about you say, look, you go ahead and trust us, you get this game. Our next game is right around the corner. We're going to take the funds from the sales and the proceeds from this to fund the building of that, and we're going to have more in it. And a way to thank you for being our early supporters, we're going to give you $1,500 off the cost of our next game. So at least you don't feel like it's lost money, right? Okay, let's say they sell 50 pony factories. Okay, four months later, these things are showing up on Pinside. How much do you think they're going to go for? They're not going to go for $6,500. You could get a new one for that. These are going to be priced at $3,800 to $4,400. I mean, all day, right? So your customers, the ones that are going to be funding the early parts of your company, are going to be losing money right off the jump Am I crazy Am I odd Am I off base I mean I had trouble reading the room with Pulp Fiction L Lee You know I didn see how much demand was really there for that. I wanted to be a little cautious and play it first because it was a game, you know, that I love the theme, okay, and the call-out seemed great, but I wanted to see some gameplay. I wanted to maybe play it first. Okay, but they sold out. They sold out. Good job. These, I don't think, have sold out. I'm doing this because I want to help these guys out, you know, bro. So can we talk about the art for a second? The art on the play field, I don't hate it. It's fine. It's a cartoon factory that is perfectly serviceable. The back glass though, I hate looking at it. I don't like that. You know, I don't know if this, the artist may be a great person. I don't know if they've done other work or anything, but it looks, I don't want to look at it. You know, build a factory and throw three of your main puns on there and like stylized format you know like angry birds or something you know but you got this like cartoon guy getting kicked out on his butt you got don not screaming at me well make an ass out of yourself or what i kept hearing that over and over what is going on with this why are you giving me a little six inch screen you know screens are cheap now you're charging full price at least go with the budget screens that stern's using you know throw that in there um you know i wasn't able to hear the sound in person maybe they invested in the speakers that'd be fantastic i will give them credit where it is due i think their cabinet looks great i i don't even hate the idea of the engraved version the 10 units they're building with their you know uh belarusian birch or whatever where it looks like it's embossed from the outside i mean that's cool that's variety they're only asking 500 for that that's not an insult but at the entry price there's got to be something more to this game am i missing something you guys the stream the stream guys you're unveiling the game to the world man don't flub the stream i'm watching this and i'm watching these guys play i have no idea who they are there's some guy in the background with a high viz jacket on is he there to collect the garbage who's this guy is he the designer of the game did he do the music did he do the call outs did he design the coin slots who are these people nobody's narrating like hey what's up thanks for coming to the stream. We're Pinball Adventures. This is our first game of many. We're very excited. Here is Pony Factory. We're going to show it to you. Here's the layouts. Here's the shots. We're going to start. Here's the ball. We shoot it. It goes up here. There's a skill shot here. There's a skill shot here. Oh, look, Tony got the second skill shot. Fantastic. Watch out for that drain. All right, now what he wants to do is hit five of these stand-up targets on the left, and we're going to start the first mode, and here we go into it. Tell me what I'm watching. you know they didn't have a microphone set up i hear conversations in the background or at least the people talking are being picked up from a microphone that sounds like it's in the other room i don't know what's happening it's like i'm watching you know like a you know leaked webcam footage that i'm not supposed to see like some ip cam got hacked and i'm watching these guys kind of you know play around by themselves in this warehouse you know throw up a banner behind there you know get something going uh you know jack danger is fantastic at doing this you know i mean look at the galactic tank force stream we could hear what was going on we could see every time there was a ball trap we could see every time they had to pull the glass off and reset the game you know but we were able to participate in it we could hear the sound hear the music um you know you don't have to be at jack danger level i mean i get it you guys are doing this on your own then that's fantastic and to be commended but please bro you know like like you know either get someone there that can narrate and let me know what i'm freaking looking at or you know say you This is not our area of specialty. This is not where our expertise is. And then look around for people. I'll come up there and narrate the dang thing if you want. That's fine. I want to play this game. I want to play all the new games. But what I'm not enticed to do is based off of what I've seen to buy this game. Because I don't think there's much in it. I think I'm going to be bored with it after 45 minutes.