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The Spinner Is Lit - Episode 45. Reno and Rush.

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 27m·analyzed·Mar 1, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Hosts play Rush, Isle Moon, and explore Reno/Sacramento venues; discuss design balance and scoop durability.

Summary

Spencer, Dan, Mark, and Brian discuss their recent experiences playing Rush and other pinball machines during a trip to Sacramento and Reno. They provide detailed impressions of Rush's gameplay, design, and potential issues with the scoop protector, visit Press Start arcade in Reno, play rare machines like Isle Moon, and reflect on the quality of machine maintenance at various venues.

Key Claims

  • Rush is a refined version of X-Men with better balance and a more player-friendly design than Ninja Turtles

    high confidence · Spencer and Dan discussing Rush gameplay after playing it at 90 Pines Lanes

  • The scoop protector on Rush is defective and deteriorates rapidly, requiring redesign by Cliffy

    high confidence · Spencer critiquing Stern's product testing after observing severe scoop protector damage after ~200 plays

  • There are only 2-3 Isle Moon machines in America, including one owned by a private collector in Reno

    medium confidence · Dan and Spencer discussing Isle Moon rarity during their Reno visit

  • Press Start arcade in Reno maintains its games to exceptionally high standards, with Twilight Zone in perfect working condition

    high confidence · Dan praising Press Start's maintenance practices and crediting Kevin Woods and Jim Martin

  • John Borg is Stern's lead designer following Steve Richie's departure and is refining his design philosophy away from being overly brutal

    medium confidence · Spencer analyzing Borg's design evolution across Guardians, Munsters, Ninja Turtles, and Rush

  • The Cactus Canyon Reissue by Chicago Gaming is one of the first units on location and uses prototypes at Press Start

    high confidence · Dan noting the rarity of Cactus Canyon Reissue on location and crediting Rick from Chicago Gaming

  • Linked NBA Fast Break demonstrates why modern Stern and P3 should implement head-to-head linking features

    medium confidence · Spencer and Dan discussing the appeal of linked multiplayer modes

  • Rush features personal call-outs from Rush band members and is family-friendly unlike ACDC or Metallica themes

    high confidence · Hosts discussing Rush's personality and band involvement

  • Ghostbusters marked a turning point in Stern's art direction toward hand-drawn custom art rather than Photoshop

Notable Quotes

  • “Great game, shitty protector. Okay. Because Preston actually was there, and he opened up the game and helped us bend it back. And it was just, it had probably 200 plays on it. and that thing looked like somebody beat it with a hammer for hours.”

    Spencer @ ~15-20 min — Critical observation about Rush's scoop protector design flaw affecting game longevity

  • “I think that Borg is obviously one of the premier designers in pinball. He's definitely Stern's lead designer these days. I don't know what else L is, but he's definitely the elder statesman at Stern with Richie gone.”

    Spencer @ ~35 min — Key industry insight about Stern's design leadership post-Richie

  • “You see a lot of places these days with a nice selection of games, but not always kept up really well. And, you know, everything I've played now is kept up. I mean, you know, and my measuring stick for this, if anybody has a Twilight Zone on location, those things never work right, okay?”

    Dan @ ~65 min — Benchmarking arcade maintenance quality; Twilight Zone as industry standard for difficulty

  • “I always feel like that head to head link is an idea that it's just like, why hasn't Stern come back around to that? You know, or P3 or somebody. Like, that is such a fun thing to do.”

    Spencer @ ~55 min — Observation about gap in modern design vs. 1990s innovation

  • “Pinball people are just so awesome.”

    Spencer @ ~50 min — Community sentiment; gratitude for private collector access

  • “It's funny when you play Cactus Canyon Remake and then you play Cactus Canyon Continued, there's a lot more content in Cactus Canyon Continued, but you become much more cognizant that that is a fan project.”

    Spencer @ ~75 min — Comparison of official reissue vs. fan project quality and polish

  • “And they improved the light show without being too much because you can go too far with lights. You can. especially with the new technology.”

    Spencer — Commentary on modern design restraint in Cactus Canyon Reissue

Entities

SpencerpersonDanpersonMarkpersonBrianpersonPrestonpersonKevin WoodspersonJim MartinpersonJohn BorgpersonSteve Richieperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Rush scoop protector shows severe damage and deformation after only ~200 plays, indicating a critical design flaw in Stern's manufacturing or material selection

    high · Spencer observed scoop protector 'looked like somebody beat it with a hammer for hours' after 200 plays at 90 Pines Lanes

  • ?

    design_philosophy: John Borg refining his design approach away from brutal difficulty toward more balanced, player-friendly games across Guardians, Munsters, Ninja Turtles, and Rush

    medium · Spencer's analysis that Borg 'recognized he was falling into a rut' and is 'trying something a little bit different' with each recent release

  • ?

    venue_signal: Press Start arcade in Reno demonstrates exceptional game maintenance and rotating stock strategy to ensure continuous playability and variety

    high · Dan's detailed praise of machine condition, noting Twilight Zone in perfect working order (rare for location play), and Kevin Woods/Jim Martin's rotating game strategy

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Rush achieves better player accessibility and balanced difficulty compared to recent Stern titles like Ninja Turtles, while maintaining competitive depth

    high · Multiple hosts noting Rush feels 'less brutal,' has 'good flow,' achieves 'right in the middle' difficulty balance

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern's scoop protector design on Rush indicates inadequate product testing and manufacturing quality control

    high · Spencer directly questioning 'Are you guys even product testing? You're not. It shows.' regarding Stern's protector design

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.442

0:00
Welcome to the Spinner's Lit Pinball Podcast, Episode 45. It's February 27th, 2022. Hey, it's me, Spencer, your host, and with us tonight at the roundtable, and I want to welcome back Dan.
0:35
Hey, what's up? Mark, our engineer. Hello. And back from a repair hiatus, our repair guru, Brian. Hello. Hey, guys. It's been almost a month, and actually, it's only been two weeks since we saw each other.
0:52
It's been a month since our last episode. Almost to the exact day. Oh, is it? Okay. I feel like the last weekend of the month is kind of turning into our spot. I think it is. We're getting to the point where we've kind of got a real cadence and a real flow going, which is good. And then people come to expect, like, okay, it's the end of the month. The guys should be kicking out a new episode shortly. So let's start off with Rush. Dan and I got to play Rush finally. And? What did you think? Oh, man, it's great. I want one really bad. I'm a Rush fan anyway, and we drove up the only one in Sacramento Valley when I was out for work. We found one at a bowling alley in a little place called Pollock Pines, which is, what, Dan? It's about 35, 45 minutes out of Sacramento, heading up Highway 50 through 5th Street? Yeah, about a mile down. Okay. And I even made notes on it, because we've got to give a shout-out. But, yeah, it's 90 Pines Lanes in Pollock Pines, California. Preston, shout out to Preston, is the game tech there. I was hoping you remembered his name because I forgot. I wrote it down. I put it in my notepad. I was a good boy. Hey, no, but, I mean, they've got a Godzilla Pro. They've got a Star Wars Pro, not common condition, just a regular one. Not that I've announced same game. And they have Rush. and they said they're going to get a fourth game and are going to try to start getting some tournaments or leagues or something going. They've got an outstanding assortment of video games and all kinds of stuff up there. So, yeah, support your local location. If you're in Pollock Pines, that is a place to stop. They've got everything there, batting cages, bowling, tons of arcade games, and a nice selection of brand-new pinball machines. Yep. How close is it to South Lake? Is it pretty close? No. Well, yeah, it's probably, I mean, it's not close, but, like, if you happen to be driving up to 50 to get to Sacramento from South Lake, you're going to drive through Pollock Pines. Yeah, that's what, an hour and change? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a cruise. It's not someplace you're going to probably do for fun, but if you just happen to be making that drive, you know, because you're coming up to see your bros in Sacramento or something. Just take the 50 instead of going down the 80, and you'll find it. Sounds cool. I'll have to check that out. Yeah, and, you know, getting back to Rush itself, I just like the way it shoots, man. People say, well, it's a lot like X-Men. It kind of is similar, but I think it just, like, he took his design on X-Men and just refined it and made it even, you know. The ram shot's easy enough to make, that side ram shot. It requires a little time and skill But it's not difficult It was a nice balance I really really liked the game Really early in the code But we're starting to figure out Oh if you hit the scoop You start a mode We're still trying to figure it out But just like Shinit I like Rush I like the call outs The only issue they've already addressed Or in the process of fixing Is the scoop That scoop protector they made They really need to call Cliffy and say design scoops for every game, you know, protectors, and then we'll pay you for your design time, and then we'll have our own people manufacture. But they need to get clippy on it because whoever's doing it is Stern. And what the heck, Stern? Are you guys even product testing? You're not. It shows. So great game, shitty protector. Okay. Because Preston actually was there, and he opened up the game and helped us bend it back. And it was just, it had probably 200 plays on it. and that thing looked like somebody beat it with a hammer for hours. It was beat to shit. And by the end of the night, it was crazy. It was so crazy. Yeah, but, I mean, you know, Dan and I were just having a blast, man. We played for, what, Dan, an hour and a half, two hours?

medium confidence · Hosts discussing Stern's art evolution from early 2010s to Ghostbusters era

  • 90 Pines Lanes in Pollock Pines, California is planning tournaments and leagues after acquiring new machines

    high confidence · Spencer visiting 90 Pines Lanes and speaking with game tech Preston

    • @ ~70 min

  • “Hand-drawn art is where it's at, man. You know, when you look at pinball machines and the newer stuff, and then you go back to the, you know, from the beginning of pinball up through, you know, the 80s and even early 90s, man, where you look at, you know, original unlicensed themes in hand-drawn art or even a licensed theme in hand-drawn art and go, So, oh, my God, Daron, this is amazing, you know.”

    Spencer @ ~40 min — Design philosophy on art direction across pinball history

    • Rick
    person
    Henryperson
    Michelleperson
    Jasonperson
    Franchiperson
    Dirty Donnieperson
    Zombie Yetiperson
    Cliffyperson
    Neo Skywalkerperson
    90 Pines Lanesvenue
    Press Startvenue
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Rushgame
    Isle Moongame
    Cactus Canyon Reissuegame
  • ?

    community_signal: 90 Pines Lanes in Pollock Pines expanding pinball offerings and planning tournaments/leagues to build local community

    medium · Spencer noting Preston's plans to acquire fourth machine and start organized play events

  • ?

    collector_signal: Private collectors in Reno region own exceptionally rare machines (Isle Moon, Linked NBA Fast Break) and are sharing access with community

    medium · Anonymous private collector in Reno opening collection; Neo Skywalker owning one of two Isle Moon machines in America

  • ?

    product_launch: Cactus Canyon Reissue by Chicago Gaming received strong community approval for faithful remake with thoughtful modern enhancements

    high · Hosts praising integration of LCD screen, light show improvements, and topper functionality; noting it's becoming available on location

  • ?

    design_innovation: Cactus Canyon Reissue successfully integrates modern LCD screen technology with classic dot matrix animation and new topper gun mode

    high · Spencer noting 'integration of larger LCD screen is superb with the dot matrix animation' and praising topper/gun pipe mode integration

  • ?

    technology_signal: Hosts express desire for modern manufacturers to revive head-to-head linked game modes seen in 1990s games like Linked NBA Fast Break

    medium · Spencer and Dan discussing why Stern/P3 haven't implemented linking despite modern Ethernet infrastructure making it feasible

  • ?

    historical_signal: Hosts reference historical pinball art and design trends, emphasizing hand-drawn art quality across pinball's 1930s-1990s eras

    medium · Extended discussion of Stern's art evolution from poor 2012-era Photoshop work (ACDC) to hand-drawn custom art (Ghostbusters onward)

  • ?

    operational_signal: Press Start employs rotating game inventory strategy to maintain variety and minimize downtime from broken machines

    high · Dan explaining Press Start keeps backup games in repair stock and rotates machines in/out, citing Batman replacement with Electra example

    • 5:00
    It played really, really nice. And, honestly, it's not as brutal as X-Men or as board games usually seem to be. And, therefore, we were able to rack up quite a few replays because the high score was pretty easy to beat. I think that Spencer ended up grand championing it after I grand championed it. So thanks, Spencer. Anytime. A few of those games I feel like I would have won if the scoop hadn't given me the big middle finger, though. Because the scoop that ends up getting disabled is super, super important to the game. It starts your multi-balls. It's your mystery shot.
    5:40
    But, yeah, man, shoot's great. I love that center shot with the magnet. I like the fact that the magnet does a couple few different things. It'll hold the ball and drop it. It'll shoot the ball back kind of around and feed the upper flipper for a side shot. And one time, and I don't know if this was on purpose or on accident, but it, like, shot the ball straight back at the flippers, which I thought was really neat, and I was always waiting for it to do it again, but I didn't see it happen.
    6:08
    Interesting. I'm saying. You were in a multi-ball. Yeah, I played it when I was in Riverside for Indes. They had two of them. There was one that was from Procter Pinball, and then there was another one that was in the free play area.
    6:25
    And what I really liked about it was the shot where you go around the loop and the ball, I don't know if there's something that slows it down, but it doesn't fly out of control when you go around that loop. and then you can hit it and have more control over it than what we're used to like with turtles where it just flies by and you have like a, you know, one-tenth of a second to figure out how to shoot it. But with this one, it slows down. Is that a magnet or what is doing that? I'm not sure, but that upper flipper shot in that game is so brilliant because not only is it super controlled and super makeable and it has two different ways or two or three different ways to get fed, but then you have like, what, four different shots? because you have the scoop, you have the orbit, you have the loop, or you have the ramp, and then you have that little stop sign thing where it goes up where there's going to be an up kicker, I guess, on your premiums or LEs. And so it was an upper shot with just a ton of variety, and it was a really satisfying shot. Like, I just love how that game shoots. Very smooth. Yeah, very smooth gameplay. play. If you're a Rush fan, that seems a dream come true, man. I just can't see how you wouldn't be excited about backing. I'm not a Rush fan, really. I don't hate Rush. They don't do a lot for me. The music was great. It really seemed to fit the modes.
    7:52
    The art's good. It didn't bother me at all. I think that the music and the art and the call-outs were actually kind of goofy and fun.
    8:00
    Yeah. I like the personal calls from the band members. That's a huge highlight of that game. I think so, too. And it also seems to be a game that if you have a concern about being family-friendly, I think that's one that you can have in the house and you're not going to worry about. That's true. Yeah, I feel like Canada's most famous rock band isn't about to start dropping the F-bombs like ACDC and Metallica.
    8:28
    Right. They're done. What do you mean? Right. Rush is done. Oh, yeah. Well, they're not touring or making more music. No, they're done. They're done. Yeah, they're done. That's not happening. But they did all their own stuff for the game. Oh, yeah. You know, they're not, like, retired. They're still Rush. They're just no longer going to make new music. The drummer's dead. Yes, I got that, Brian. Thanks for breaking that down. Okay. I'm just saying, they did their own game with the Barenaked Ladies guy.
    8:55
    But it was nice that, like, you know, they're not like, oh, we're going to go reclusive. Like, they came and they did their call-outs and they're very... Like, when you play the game, you'll see it's got a ton of personality to it that I'm sure to a fan of the group is like the nectar of the gods. For me, it's kind of like, you know, I love Metallica. Like, I love ACDC and Metallica, but I love Metallica a little bit more because all the guys from Metallica showed up to do their own call-outs, and that really makes the game theirs. ACDC is just a Steve Ritchie game with ACDC music and a cannon. yeah and the rules are really good I know Stern just came out with a rule sheet I have not had a chance to look at it yet I'm going to have the opportunity to play a LE next week at Jason's he's getting it delivered it was supposed to be delivered last week and he had it all scheduled for people to come over and celebrate opening it and there was a delay of course but it's going to be there so it'll be interesting to see how that up kicker changes the game a little bit, along with the ramp raising, if that is going to be an annoyance or if it's going to be something that's going to be fun to try to earn to shoot up that center ramp. Man, I feel like that might almost ruin the game. It might. We'll have to see. I honestly, I mean, I'm going to kind of jump ahead here. With all the furor over them announcing a Weird Al game, which is my jam, I really haven't been looking at much else about the other games that are out right now. But I would be interested to go into the Rush groups and see what people think of the way that the premium shoots. Because I do feel like this might be one of those examples where the pro might almost shoot nicer.
    10:42
    There's a possibility. And I'll be a really good judge of that to play both. So we'll see what happens. I'm going to try to make it for that. Oh, are you? Great. Now that it's not that specific night, I mean, maybe if it's Thursday again, I'll be screwed. But I'm going to try to shoot up there. I'll bring Ryan.
    11:01
    For sure. That'd be great. I like the light show. The rules, like I said, I'm still learning. But I do like that where you have to make the shots with the same colors and helps with the multiplier and helps you get further in the game.
    11:17
    There are a lot of multiballs in it, but it kind of fits with the music, with that energetic music anyway. So, I didn't really pick up the rules. It sounds like you're ahead of me on that. What I kind of picked up was each of the songs that you choose has, like, some qualifier shots that you hit, and then you can, like, start a multiball on it. And I'm not really sure what the multiball that we kept starting that sort of blew the game up was, but it had, like, owls and lightning and it kicked ass. Cool. Fly by night? Was it the one where the play field slightly dims as you progress through the multiball? Fly by night definitely sounds familiar. Yeah, because that would be with the owl. Yeah. Have like a baby parent like on a dock, and there's like, stop.
    12:10
    Yeah, we got Red Bar to do multiball a couple times, and there was a couple other multiballs. I can't remember now because, man, there was so much going on that week. You know, it was just, you know, work all day and then it was pinball all night, which was great. And in between that, sleep and study for exams.
    12:27
    But it was a good time, man. What were your thoughts on getting bored? Do you have a lot of left out lanes? Or actually, in this case, it'd probably be right out lane, right? Because there's two in on the right side this time.
    12:42
    Or not. I didn't feel like it was cheap at all. Yeah. That's how I felt, too. I didn't feel like I was getting those cheap drains like we normally do on those games. It felt so much less brutal than, like, Ninja Turtles. Yeah. And Ninja Turtles is kind of the other recent board, right? Right. That game is definitely brutal. It's kind of like you dialed it back and made it a little more user-friendly because Ninja Turtles is so brutal. So brutal. It's a great game. I just, it's a good board. It's fast. It's really fast. Yeah, I feel like chances are that it wasn't intentionally dialed back. I just think that it's a refinement. I think that Borg is obviously one of the premier designers in pinball. He's definitely Stern's lead designer these days. I don't know what else L is, but he's definitely the elder statesman at Stern with Richie gone. Let's put it that way.
    13:38
    And his designs are very Borg-y, right? They're Borg-y. Right. Like, they feel like when you play a John Board game, you feel like it's a John Board game, almost like a Lawler. And I think that this is, I think that he kind of, you know, might have recognized that he was falling into sort of a rut with the Guardians and the Munsters, and he tried something a little bit different with Ninja Turtles, and now he's trying something a little bit different with Rush. And, I mean, I know people say it reminds them of X-Men, but I always thought X-Men was a bit of a bastard, and this just feels like a really nice, smooth shooting game.
    14:19
    But it's not easy, so I think it's a good one. Yeah, it's right in the middle. Yeah, it just seems well-balanced, and as the rules progress, I think it's going to have long lives. What did you think of the artwork in person? Did you think it looked a lot better than the pictures? It always does. I mean, I think since ANC is used to it. Right. See, I may have to play the game, but I love the artwork because it just screams 70s. And Rush, you know, kind of got started with, like, the old, like, 70s band style, airbrush on the side, dragons, all that kind of stuff. I think it's awesome because I think Rush, that's kind of what I think. Yeah, and the band members in the middle of the play field didn't bother you at all? No. Which is good to me. Yeah, see, it didn't bother me either. Because, I mean, if Russia proves it, why would you complain, right? I think the same thing goes for, I'm going back to Aerosmith here, that the artwork, you know, really catches the theme. And like Brian just said, and the time frame on both those games, if you look at the art, it really captures the essence of the peak of the band when they were at their, you know, young and vital and all that cool stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like if you're a fan of the group, there's a lot there to like and for me not being a fan of the group all I can say is like it didn't win me over like the art on Iron Maiden did but it doesn't offend me like the art on ACDC does oh that I totally agree with the art is 100 times better than ACDC yeah ACDC no question it really isn't the ugliest game ever made but I feel like it was a game that should have been much, much cooler looking than it was. It's a terrible example of Stern's art in, like, 2012.
    16:16
    Yep, exactly. And it was kind of the last of it, too, right? I don't know. It was Star Trek, right? No, Star Trek was that after? That was after ACDC, right? Yeah, the good art days really sort of, you know, they didn't come until probably, like, Ghostbusters, and then they were just can't miss, can't miss, can't miss. Yeah, Ghostbusters is where, yeah, that's where it all changed. You know, I Metallica, I think, was where it began. No, Metallica, too. Yeah, that was good, too. Yeah. But you got that one, two, three punch of when they had Franchi, Dirty Donnie, and Zombie Yeti all together, two of which will no longer work for Stern. So, you know, Zombie Yeti and whoever else they have doing their art packages. But it seems like their art direction right now, they've definitely decided it's hand-drawn, it's custom art. You know, they're not going to go to the Photoshop well. Hopefully. Thank God.
    17:16
    Hand-drawn art is where it's at, man. You know, when you look at pinball machines and the newer stuff, and then you go back to the, you know, from the beginning of pinball up through, you know, the 80s and even early 90s, man, where you look at, you know, original unlicensed themes in hand-drawn art or even a licensed theme in hand-drawn art and go, So, oh, my God, Daron, this is amazing, you know. Yeah. Where you just stand there and stare at the game for half an hour. You don't even turn and, you know, play it. You just want to sit there and look at it, you know. So, Spencer, what else did you do while you were here? I studied a lot. I passed a lot of exams. And, oh, and, hey, I got to be a guest at League Night in Lodi League, and I got to see some new faces. And they're like, who the hell is this guy? and a lot of old-facing, a lot of old friends, and played some pinball and had a really good time. We got to go to League Mountain at Henry's. Big shout-out to Henry and Michelle for hosting and letting me come by. That was a lot of fun. Really enjoyed that. Missed the league a lot. I was happy to be a guest there too at Henry's, and it was awesome. A little barbecue beforehand, that was great. Yeah, man. Henry Chicken. Playing in the league as a guest, that was awesome. Henry Chicken's just on food group. It really is, man. Yeah, Henry is definitely the host with the most, man. His league nights are fantastic. Great games, great food, absolutely fantastic facility to have it in. He's got a great game room. He's got a great backyard for entertaining. And everybody in the group was ecstatic to have Spencer back.
    19:00
    League is always fun, and we're always family there. But it's a little bit different not having Spencer there, even still. And he's been gone for a while because he sucks. Yeah, well, you know, I got to come home to free America where there's not a lot of pinball, but there's a lot of just calm and relaxing and quiet and really, really, it got really cold, like really cold. Like we had almost a whole week where it never got above zero. So where it was so cold out, I went outside and Rusty's down on the porch digging it, and I go to breathe, and I'm like, this doesn't feel very good. I'm going back inside. Yeah. Because it was so cold. It's that heavy air that, like, it freezes your lungs. Yeah, and we're at 5,100 feet above sea level. Well, one of these days when we find you frozen like Nicholson at the end of The Shining, you'll remember that I told you so. It was literally like 12 below zero. It was great. And now, like, today it was, like, almost 50, and it's like, this is it. It's supposed to be, like, you know, in a week or two, it's supposed to be in the 60s, like high 50s, low 60s. Like, oh, all right, you know, so, you know, spring is coming. So, yeah, man, league night's always fun, getting to see everybody. And there's a few people there that I had not seen since I left in June or before. Man, it was great to see everybody play pinball and just have a good time. It was a whirlwind man That whole week I was there Like whatever six days How about another road trip So yeah man We went to Reno Dan and I went up to Reno On Sunday my last day there And because I flew home Early early Monday morning And we Met with Mark and we met at a private collector who wishes to remain anonymous. But really cool people and some of the people in the Reno group that Mark plays pinball with. And we got to play in Isle Moon, which is only, what, six in the world and three of them are in America or something? That's right. Yeah, I think it was like two or three in America. Two in America. Like Neo Skywalker has one and this cat has one. Really fun game, man. I love those weird Spanish games. They came up especially the you know, the latest Hall of State and then the early Dot Matrix. They came up with some really unique, fun ideas. That game has pretty good flow. It has some great ramp shots. The music was cool. I mean, I'm sorry they never got off the ground better, but really interesting, unique game. It was really a pleasure to enjoy to get to experience that. So, you know who you are. I hope you're listening. Thank you, man. It was your kindness to open up your private collection to us and let us play and show us around. I really do appreciate that. Pinball people are just so awesome. I got to admit, I was a little cynical about IOMood when I first looked at it because it looks cheesy. And, you know, when the first advice that you get is, yeah, don't touch the game next to it at the same time.
    22:16
    Like, that's a little sketchy. But you know what? you know, once you start that game up and you start shooting, it shot really nice. It had some fun shots and the quasi 2001 theme just worked super, super well. And it had a really cool, like, I think that Spencer said it right, that Spanish game, Zacharia, whatever they were, sort of personality or Sonic, like the Sonic games, it had that personality like a European he in game does, which feels slightly different than your Chicago made, you know, Williams and Bally and all those. So, I mean, it was a really, really cool experience. And, you know, it's always fun to play something that's one of a kind. Yeah. It was really cool. Like you said, the shots are really fun to make. And I think what makes it so unique is everything on the display is Spanish. Yeah. You really get the feel of a foreign game. If you've ever played, I think it's Spinball or something. They made Jolly Park and they made a few other games.
    23:26
    Early Dot Matrix era, you know, early 90s. And they have that same kind of similar feel. And they have some really unique features and shots. But they all have really, especially the Spanish games, seem to really have some good flow, you know, just out of the gate. Yeah. And we got to play some Linked NBA Fast Break Yes and I'd never played those before So fun Oh hell yeah Yeah that's the first time I'd ever played The Linked NBA Fast Break Thank you for bringing that up I actually forgot about that Like I said it was a whirlwind week So I just had a lot going on That was just a kick ass time man I always feel like that head to head link is an idea that it's just like, why hasn't Stern come back around to that? You know, or P3 or somebody. Like, that is such a fun thing to do. Yeah, that is really fun, for sure. Yeah, it doesn't seem like, you know, it's going to take that much extra programming to put in a mode where it's like a battle mode. And, you know, these days the games are all running off of Ethernet anyway, so, you know, have an Ethernet adapter that you run between the games. I mean, I'm sure it was much more complicated in the 90s when Williams did it. Well, it's like, you know, where they had the CERN's heads-up imitation, I'll remember, and it was just recently with Elvira, House of Horrors. Imagine if you could link the games up and you could, like, try to get fastest to the mode, you know, or whatever, and then you could determine a winner that way with games that are linked. Right. probably do with Insider Connected if they figured it out. Oh, no way. The latency would be... Oh, you think so? Oh, yeah. I mean, come on. I mean, it's just... It's so much, you know, there's so much going on so fast, like, trying to do that over the internet, I feel like that would be kind of a nightmare. P3 has kind of a mode like that. Like, you can play Cosmic Kart Racing against other people. Like, I watched a stream of that with the Buffalo Pinball guys, like, a couple years ago, and it looked super neat but I mean I don't think it would be quite as frenetic as you know playing those it's a timed game for one thing and you know you're trying to get points and you know make shots and combos and there's multi balls and that back box mode and just it's really really genius and we kind of did like a ghetto version of that over at Shannon's with the Battle Metallica set up and that's fine until somebody really gets dialed in on that fuel shot and they just, you know, kick your ass in three flips.
    26:11
    You know, it's just one of those things where it's like, you know, this is a little bit more fleshed out, and I feel like some of the games that we have out right now would lend themselves really, really well to, like, head-to-head competition. Yeah, it would be neat if they brought it back. I would love to see it. Yeah. And then we headed over to press start. Yeah, we did. What did you think of Press Start? Well, you know, you've been after me for like three years to get up there. We finally made it. It's great. You know what I was most impressed with?
    26:44
    I mean, you've got all the video games, the classics, some of the newer stuff. The bar was nice. It was nice that the bar was separated from the arcade, which was a really great idea. So kids just want to go play games. The pinball area was fantastic. And what I like most is not just the selection of games, but the quality. They were all very, very well maintained. You see a lot of places these days with a nice selection of games, but not always kept up really well. And, you know, everything I've played now is kept up. I mean, you know, and my measuring stick for this, if anybody has a Twilight Zone on location, those things never work right, okay? At home, yes, because they don't play with as much. In the twilight zone there, it was clean. It was working properly. It was dialed in. It shot nice. And that's a hard game to keep running on location. Yep, and you can definitely thank Kevin Woods and Jim Martin for keeping those games working at all times. Bravo to those guys. It's rare that there's a game out of order, and if it is and it's unfixable at the time, they'll substitute with another game. We've done it already like three times because the nice thing is they have a spot where they can keep all the games that they repair and then just have a stock of some games that they can just replace the ones that they pull out. So that's the case right now. We just actually are getting – actually have an Electra that just got put in there because the Batman note boards went out. Uh-oh. So we replaced it with Electra. And once Batman comes back, it might replace Mystic for a little while. And that's what they do. They rotate the games in and out, and it gives a variety of different games to play. And it's a lot of fun, and it's perfect for tournaments because we don't all play modern Stern games. We play a variety of games of all different eras, which is really nice. Yeah, man. Yeah, I wish I really, really like Electra, and you don't see those hardly ever anymore I wish it would have been there when I was there But that's okay, because we got to play You know, I got to play a lot of cool stuff And we got to play the Cactus Canyon Reissue, and You know, I've Always liked the game I've always liked Cactus Canyon I got a soft spot in my heart for Western Theme pins Goes back to my days, you know, as a kid playing the old Gottlieb EMs, and there were so many cool Western themes, you know. Sheriff or Lawman and Fast Draw, also Quick Draw.
    29:30
    Oh, gosh. Eldorado. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. So I got a soft spot in my heart for that, and it's a fun game, and I enjoyed it. You know, I enjoyed the standard Cactus Canyon. I enjoyed Cactus Canyon Continued. and I was like, okay, yeah, they're going to do it. That's going to be cool. So now people are going to have it. But wow, they really did a nice job on it. They did. It shoots very similar to the original and the way that they integrated the larger LCD screen is superb with the dot matrix animation. Yeah, and they improved the light show without being too much because you can go too far with lights. You can. especially with the new technology.
    30:19
    And it was really nicely integrated. The topper integrated with the gun pipe mode. That is really cool. I mean, at first I was like, okay, that's going to be cool. But, oh, holy crap, man, that's really cool. And it played great. You know, we had a good time. Dan killed it on that thing. Yeah, his high score is still on there. His GC. I think, Dan, you got GC on that, didn't you? I don't think so. I think I was like third or fourth. Somebody really took the boost of that game. Yeah, Ted blew it up. It was a hell of a game, and I beat High Noon, and I beat all the Barks, and I think I experienced what that game has to offer, and it's nice. It's definitely a more fleshed-out version of the original.
    31:05
    You know, I've been fiddling around with Cactus Canyon Continued, you know, in the last week or so and just sort of getting reacquainted with that, And it's definitely, you know, it's funny when you play Cactus Canyon Remake and then you play Cactus Canyon Continued, there's a lot more content in Cactus Canyon Continued, but you become much more cognizant that that is a fan project. Oh, interesting. And it's got some interesting stuff going on just because, you know, it was a thing that a guy built because he really liked Cactus Canyon and wanted there to be more of it. but it's, you know, the remake is a beautiful package, and it's really, really cool that I think, what were they saying? There's like one of them on location, and that's it? Pretty much. I mean, there's still, I think they're starting to get on location in some places, but that was one of the first, and just like the other Chicago Gaming Company games that are on location here in Reno, they're all prototypes from Rick's that he got directly from Chicago Gaming. So, yeah, we get to play the prototypes, which is pretty neat. And they've held up really well. Attack from Mars is really good. We had the Monster Bash there and now Cactus Canyon.
    32:23
    And they have the Medieval. And Medieval, too. Yeah. And I made sure to play all of them, and they all played beautifully. Yeah, they played great. They all looked perfect. Yeah, Medieval played amazing. I haven't played that for a while, and I was like, whoa, Oh, Kevin did something to the flippers because they weren't that strong before, so I don't know if he rebuilt them or what. But, man, it's not good. Yeah, I saw the Adams family that played really well. I played their Adams family. That's another one because that can get played so much, especially by casual players that go, oh, I know Adams family. I'll play that. Most of them are just blown out. And that one was smooth, had plenty of power in the flippers. Everything was working properly. it was dialed in and it played great. It was a pleasure to put money in. And all the games are 50 cents a play. Every game is 50 cents. That blew me away when he announced that. I was like, really? You're going to put them at 50 cents? Even Guns and Roses and the newer games is like, yep, all 50 cents. I'm like, yikes. For the listener, if you ever find yourself in Reno, Nevada, man, get over to Press Start. That is a fantastic location. You guys, I mean, you guys in Reno, man, you should be really, really proud. Protect that at all costs because that is a fantastic place to go and play pinball. And what's wonderful about that, too, is we just started up tournaments again on Tuesday night. The first one we had, we had 22 people. The second one we had, we had 24. It keeps growing. And it got a little crowded with more than 24, but we might up it a little bit. I got to talk to Jim and see what he wants to do. But, yeah, it was really awesome to see how many people showed up and just had a great time. Yeah, I feel like those tournaments are probably just badass. And, I mean, it seems like it's such a great venue for that kind of thing. And there's so many great machines. I mean, where else do you see a Banzai run on location? Exactly. You know, in addition to just this new stuff, you know, you got the new Guns N' Roses, you know, and then you have the old standards, right? You have the Addams families and whatnot. Where else do you go that you see a Twilight Zone? Where else do you go to see the Guns N' Roses? Do you see these classics like Old Chicago? I mean, it's a really great blend. You got the newest Sterns. You got the, you know, you got the remakes. You got the old school stuff. And then if pinball's not your jam, they got a ton of arcade games. If even arcade games aren't your jam, they got console games. They got a VR setup. It's a really cool place to go. I mean, the people of Reno are ridiculously fortunate to have such a cool venue. We've got some great places here in Sacramento, but nothing quite as cool as Press Start. Yeah, it's an awesome place, and it's so great to bring back tournaments again after pretty much a two-year hiatus, so it's wonderful.
    35:21
    Yeah, it is fantastic that they came back from the dead, too. But this is way better than their old spot. It is. Head and shoulders superior. For sure. Nope, I'm glad we finally got to make it. It was so awesome that, Spencer, you made it, and you made time out of your trip to come down and get to see the private collection. Oh, I'm so glad I did, yeah. And also get to go to Press Start, and we had a good long day to play pinball. It was fun. It was exhausting, but I wouldn't miss it for the world now. I'm so glad we finally got to get up there and jam and play pinball and meet some of the other collectors in your area. It was great. It was all just wonderful people. It was great, man. I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner. The Reno crew is so cool. Yeah. I got a good group up there, man, a good community. You guys have a lot to be proud of up there. You guys have a really good community. You know, you guys got some high-end collectors. You guys got some one-game wonders like yourself. Like, there's just some really, really good stuff going on. I'm disappointed we didn't get to Mark's house to play Hot Wheels. Yeah, I was bummed, too. What were we even thinking? Yeah, it's all right. You got to see Press Start. But next time, for sure. The majesty of Hot Wheels. I love that game. I'll tell you. I love that game. It's fantastic. It's a great game. And every time I have that I probably cannot play just one game It usually like 10 20 games easily when I just want to play just a little bit because it just constantly wants me to hit the start button to do something else There more people looking for them right now than there are people selling them And right now that I've been looking, I kind of look today, I haven't found any new in box for sale right now. You know what? It was interesting. When I decided to go with Zach to get it delivered instead of going through another distributor, if I would have made that decision not to go with what Zach had in stock, which was just one left, I would still not be getting my game to this day. So I'm glad I went with Zach, Benny. I know it's a little off the subject, but I heard that American is gearing up to build more Houdinis and Oktoberfests too. It sounds like they're not going to let their other games, you know, just fade away into the night, which is awesome, because I do think those are both underrated machines, and I hope that they can get them out there at a competitive price point. Yeah. I agree. What they did with Hot Wheels, that was the best deal I got. When I look at all the prices now, very happy with what I paid for. Oh, yeah. We're a Stern Pro. You can't beat that. Can't beat it. And the game, like you said, it's got that one more game quality. Everybody knows the theme. It's universally known. You know, I mean, from, you know, 4 to, you know, 80. Oh, Hot Wheels. Yeah, I know what those are. Cool. and it just checks all the boxes of just a good fun to a moment. And it's hard to beat. I can't beat it. The funny thing about it is I can't get past two battle modes usually. I get maybe two done and I can never get to Draven to the mini wizard mode for that particular battle of progress I guess you could call it. I always forget there's like a whole lore to that game because it's based off of like a Hot Wheels cartoon. Yeah, it is. I was like, who the hell is Draven? Yeah, Draven is like the master villain.
    38:42
    It's great. I'm very happy with it. And, yeah, I am bummed that you guys couldn't come over. But we were limited on time, and that's okay. Dude, we went to two locations, and we got a lot of pinball. Yeah, there was a lot of pinball at both locations to play that would take a lot of time. So that's understandable. I was just teasing because I knew we needed to fill some time, and I'm like, if I can get Mark talking about Hot Wheels, that's 10 minutes right there. I'll ask him. I'm done. Finally played Stranger Things LE, and I liked it.
    39:14
    Of course, it was working properly. So the projector is really nice. It looks really good. It really adds to the game. I got the upside down to what the UV kit, and it looked pretty cool.
    39:30
    So, yeah, down the road, maybe I'll play a pro that's working right and like it too. I still think everybody, well, you know, it's just like Attack from Mars. No, Attack from Mars is just, you cannot argue, it's an undisputed classic. It is absolutely an homage to Attack from Mars. It doesn't shoot exactly the same. No, it doesn't. You know, Eddie admitted it. You know, you can't look at some of the video display without thinking, you know, they were definitely thinking Attack from Mars when they made this film. I love the show. Huh? I love the show. So, you know, Stranger Things, the TV show, watch it with the boys. Love the show. But it's an okay game. I don't hate it as much. But give me an attack from Mars all day, any day. And what's interesting about it, too, is that Stranger Things from the Stern, obviously, there's no humor in it. It's all serious and horror, which is fine if that's what they want to go with. But it's very rare that you have games besides maybe Halloween that has a horror theme with no humor in it. And I thought that was interesting because there's a lot of humor in Stranger Things. Maybe that's why I don't care for this movie. That's probably why. I love Rush so much, because it's like, when you get a tilt warning, they're shaking the game.
    40:44
    I feel like there's some kind of goofy call-outs, and there's definitely some goofy display animations, like where the pinball whacks the Demogorgon in the head. And the bullshit one is great. That bullshit one is hilarious. It's not too serious. It probably could have embraced a little bit more of the 80s nostalgia, you know. But it's not bad. I think it's a fine game. I just always thought it was funny how bad Spencer would piss on it, even though he'd only played one non-working example. Yeah, well, now he got a chance to play it. Because we were out with the gang. It was a great game. That upside-down mode is dope. It is dope. With the lights and, you know. That really should have been the standard, even on a pro. We had a perfect night going. Nostalgia was falling in the air. We get it, Spencer.
    41:37
    Let it go. You played a good one, man. You played a good one. Once I get started on something, I will not do it. I will hang on to that shit through a hurricane. I will not let it go. You don't say. You noticed that, did you? I don't know. If I played a game and I was excited about it and it broke, like, after two plays, I would probably be not forgetting about that moment too. My favorite part is where Kendra went up. I'm like, hold on, Kendra. And the lock, the little up pulse, the little up pulse, it completely come out. It was laying on the ramp. It just flew out. Yeah, it just flew out. I'm like, I don't think you want to shoot that ball. It's going to jam up. Let's turn this off now.
    42:21
    Yeah, it was like, wow, just wow. Like, wow, that was made in China, wasn't it? Anyway. But, yeah, it's, you know, I get a little bit more time on it, man. You know, and it's not a bad little game. But so we're through our Reno visit pretty much, but you're going to tell us about InDesk. All right. So InDesk, it was in Riverside, California, and it was over at the convention center really close to our hotel. So it was very convenient. It was definitely the big hitters. Everybody there were pros. This was not a show where you just go and play casual pinball. This was the big leagues. And it was an honor to see so many players, so many good players, blowing up these games that I couldn't get maybe 20 seconds off. You really have to have good nudging skills and definitely looking ahead of your shot. before it even gets to your flipper to make those shots the way they were set up. The games are brutally difficult. Now, the tilts were not that tight, which I was shocked. I thought for sure, like, you breathe on it, it would tilt. You could shake those games like crazy, and the tilt balls were actually pretty generous.
    43:42
    But the outlanes, on the other hand, they made them as wide as they could be, and some of the classic games had the posts drilled in so it could have even a wider gap on the outlanes. which was ridiculous. But it was really interesting to see how well these people played. I mean, we're talking Keith Elwin and Sexton and Ray Day and all these guys, they knew how to play. Now, the first night that I had, which was Thursday night, or actually, sorry, got in Wednesday night, but on Thursday we had the match play tournament, and that was super fun. It was a target match play up to 30 points, and they used the 3-2-1-0 scoring for that. And it was pretty awesome because it lasted 16 rounds. So we're talking 16 different pinball machines I played throughout in a four-person group mostly. A couple times I had three-person, but mostly it was four. And it was all classics. So like the newest game that was there out of all of them was like Party Animals and Genesis. And the rest were all EMs and Solid States. But they were so tough, especially the one that really bit me was Strikes and Spares, which messed up my whole ranking, which, of course, was the last group. But I did really well. I was very happy. I ended up in 24th, and there were 100 players, 120, that were in the match play tournament. And it was awesome because you got to meet so many different people. And it was nice because it was a Swiss pairing. So if you were playing with a bunch of people and they just killed you, but other people had kind of the same record as you, you started getting paired up with those people. And with that large of a group of people, it turned out really nice that you were paired up with people that were kind of your same level. But then, of course, once you got past that and you did really good, then it definitely increased the challenge. Let's put it that way, because then you're with people from Seattle and Chicago. Actually, not many from Chicago, but from like L.A., Portland, all these people that play like practically on a daily basis. And it was challenging and very competitive, but fun. It was a great, great format. It started at noon and it didn't get done until about 10 o'clock at night. So it was literally 10 hours straight. There was one hour break for dinner. But, hey, I was happy. 24th place out of the best players in the world definitely was huge points for the Whopper points.
    46:41
    I watched a ton of the stream. And, yeah, man, 24th in that, like, ocean of killers is super respectable, dude. Yeah, man, I'd be proud of that. Everybody there was a badass. Yeah, it was definitely a wake-up call to see how many good players there were. I didn't realize how good Tom Graff is until I saw him playing. Man, he was good on those classics. And they just knew all the rules. And it was interesting because I didn't bother asking, and I kind of kicked myself that I didn't talk to people and say, hey, what do you do on this game? Because I thought they were just going to keep it a secret. And they're all talking, and they're not at all trying to hide anything from the players. They're like, oh, no, this is what you need to do. Just shoot these targets and then shoot the spinner all day or try to get five times bonus or whatever.
    47:32
    But it was great. They had a huge selection of the classic games, and it was run really smoothly. Props to Carl. D'Angelo. Carl D'Angelo. He ran that tournament like a tight ship. It was just as good as Pinberg. It was very organized and super fun. my first half, I failed miserably. I maybe had one or two points on each one. And then I was like, I got to bring this. And in the afternoon after lunch, I started winning three of them in a row. I had three points. And then the last one killed me because if I wouldn't have screwed up on strikes and spares getting a zero, I would have probably ended up in sixth place. But strikes and Spares gave me a gutter ball and screwed me. It was fun. Cool. No, man, you know what? You're a very respectable showing, man. Yeah, it was great. Then there was the format, which is the open card format, not a fun format, very difficult. Basically, you have to play five of your best games all on one card. If you screw up one game, you pretty much throw your card away and start over. I didn't want to spend so much money on cards because I knew that I wouldn't have a chance at all in the A division, let alone the B division.
    49:04
    So I just kind of played a couple of them, but they were so brutally difficult the way they were set up. And these were a mixture of modern games and also some solid state games. No EMs, but there were some interesting ones like Mystery Castle, which I've never played before except over at the Museum of Pinball.
    49:27
    And there were some other obscure ones. I was surprised there was a Stargate and a very interesting collection of games in the open. But I didn't do so well. And they had basically, I would say, probably ended up like in, I don't know, like in the hundreds. And there was like about 250, 300 players that were a total of players for the Open. So I did not qualify. And I just need to be more consistent. It doesn't have to be the best game for every game. It just has to be good, solid games consistently with five that you play on your card. And it's not easy to do. It's brutal. It's a brutal format. They also had a card system for the classics. They had a classic one. They had a classics two. And I did pretty good, but I didn't get into any of the playoffs or any of the finals or anything like that. But that was four of your best games on a card. And I felt I had a little better chance because I didn't have to worry about knowing so many complex rules like some of the games like Turtles was in there and also Godzilla. Of course, they take the rubbers off the posts and everything and make it brutally hard and a drain monster.
    50:47
    But the tilts, they were not that tight. The cool thing is my friend Ted McGinty played outstanding right at the end. He had a good card, and he got into the B division. He made it all the way to the finals, and then he lost in the last round in the finals and ended up in fourth place. However, he played a game of Dirty Harry, and there was a situation where before you plunge the ball, you can have a choice of a skill shot.
    51:22
    And when he walked up to the game, the skill shot, it didn't give him a choice, and he could only just launch the ball.
    51:32
    This happened twice. It happened the first time, and then it happened a third time, which messed up his mentality because he was like, wait, what's going on here? And he was trying to talk to Carl and say, hey, you know, this is not right. It's like, well, it's a minor malfunction, and that's the rules. so he had to play it as it is. But he missed like a 60 million shot on that ramp where you have that choice in Dirty Harry where you can try to shoot for the ramp for the skill shot, and he made it, but he didn't have the choice to make that skill shot. So he was short like, I don't know, 30 or 40 million points. Then that kind of messed up his thinking, and he was like, oh, man, this really sucks, and he kind of lost his concentration, and then he didn't win the finals. But he was so close, and I was cheering him on, and he did a really great job. And pretty awesome to have somebody from Reno come back with a fourth-place plaque in B Division. So that was a huge celebration. And there's also a great place that was close to the convention center where they had a place called Game Lab, which had a great collection of a variety of games and that was a lot of fun where, of course, you can't have enough pinball. So after the tournament, we went over there and played more pinball at GameWeb. The free play area over at – it was pretty weak. There was maybe 15 games that were on free play. There was a rush that we got to play, so I got to play a lot of that. But there were just – it was definitely not a pinball show. It was a competition tournament strictly for pros. It was a pro tournament. But it was a great time. I'd definitely do it again, and I really enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun. And I hope some people from Sacramento can get down there next time because the points are awesome. I mean, heck, I still got like three points, and I still was like 120th in trying to qualify for the Open because the points are ridiculous because you got the best players. So the Whopper points are off the chart, which made me from 2000, I think it was like 3,800, I was originally ranked and got me in the, I think, 1,800 now. So I wish I did a little better. Yeah, those eight tournaments are big points. Big points. You know what, kind of going back to the thing with Dirty Harry and your friend Ted, you know, you're in the finals, you're at the end of the night, you guys have been playing for like a 10-hour session, maybe even longer. Correct. And, you know, that doesn't just have an effect on the people, but it has a big effect on the games, too.
    54:18
    You know, like, Dirty Harry's got the hell beat out of him all day, and that Dirty Harry definitely seemed to be a little fiddly in some of the games I saw on the stream. I know the gun wasn't working super well. So you noticed it, too, didn't you? Oh, for sure, yeah. I mean, it wasn't just Ted who caught it in the face. There were a few players who did, but, yeah, he caught it definitely during a clutch time. He kind of caught it when it meant the most, unfortunately. That was just a really bad draw, but, you know, congratulations to him. I think we had a local guy, Damien, actually got into one of the finals. Damien was there, yes, of course. Yes, Damien. He got into the playoffs as well, but he got shut down pretty quick.
    55:03
    He did, but it was great to see him. but yeah so Bob Matthews that's what I was trying to remember yeah Bob Matthews and Carl they did a great job running the tournament and his setup holy cow with his streaming setup it's like a professional studio amazing coverage of the whole tournament on Twitch it was awesome but if anyone gets a chance if you want to play competitive pinball with the best in the world InDisc is the place to go So a lot of fun, a lot of pinball, and match play is my favorite. And honestly speaking, if I couldn't get tickets for match play, I don't know if I would go because I really don't like the card system. It's too brutal for me. Yeah, it's definitely one for the pros. You know, if you're an extra left cough, yeah, you know, that sounds like a good equation. Yep. The other thing, when we got there, we also had a chance to go to the auction, in the Pirates Auction Warehouse in Anaheim. So, yeah, we got there on Wednesday night, and we got to play in a match play tournament there, and that was a lot of fun. And some really good players there, good points.
    56:17
    One was from Italy. Another one was from, I think, Sweden, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. He was good. But anyway, he was really nice, and it was a lot of fun to see them in, like, the pre-tournament. and that was on Wednesday night when we just got there. We drove pretty much 10 hours, and I'm like, yeah, let's go to this tournament and check it out, and we already had a plan. I'm like, well, I don't know if we should buy the tickets yet unless we actually get there on time. But then they took us in, and we had like 45 players. So it was fun. Did you observe? What a cool place. Did you observe that it seems to be kind of a changing of the guard? It seemed like a lot of young guys were kicking ass. Didn't the kid who wins, wasn't he 16 or 17? Yeah, there was a lot of young folks there. Yep. One guy, I think he's probably in his 20s, but his name's Walt. Walt was great. He's awesome. He was just coolest guy and definitely has a personality playing pinball. I don't know how he makes the shots, but he literally takes his hands off the flippers when he shoots for those shots and literally does a unique dance, very much like some famous pinball players we've known, like Lyman and Rick Stetta. Those guys definitely have got a great personality, and he's fun to watch. I took a video of him. He went out for that game where he nailed like 110 loops on Doctor Who, and he did like a little hip bump after every single one and it was just so consistent. I mean, maybe that was part of his timing, but yeah, we were watching the stream at that time. We had a really good time watching him play and we were really pulling for him to pull it off. And it was super impressive that even when he didn't win, he got knocked out by I think the kid who went on to win. God, I forgot his name, but you know, we were calling him Zach McCracken. Yeah. And he ran up and he gave him a big hug. And just like it was just a super awesome moment. And, yeah, it was a really exciting event. And, I mean, I bet it would have been just a blast to be there. I'm really, really happy that you guys made it and that you had such a good run. It was wonderful. And the thing cool about Walt is he is a guitarist. So if you watched him closely on that loop on that loop ramp shot, he had a rhythm going. And I was watching. I was like, oh, my gosh, he's like right, like a time meter. Yeah, it's like it was such a consistent movement. And he did it every single time. And I said it was like part of the timing. We were joking that like when that guy when that guy played pinball, he made Alex look like a statue. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking, too. I was like, Alex would, yeah, he's mellow compared to Walt. But cool, guys. Just everybody's cool. I got to talk to Keith. By the way, for the record, I asked him, I said, I know this is a stupid question, but I'm going to ask you because you're here in person. When you designed the Mechagodzilla, did you intentionally have it where if you hit off the arm, it would go into the habit trail? And he said, no, it was by accident. And he's like, well, we kept it in. That's why I had the arm straight. And we just left it. But he did not intentionally design it to go off there, which we probably already assumed. But I heard it from him directly that, no, it was an accident and it was a happy accident. Yeah, I was going to say happy accident. I'm like, oh, cool. Happy accident. Yep.
    60:01
    Anyway, great guy. I mean, I couldn't believe I could have a conversation with him, you know, while he's playing. And that's the funny thing, too. You think, you know, when you see and you watch the stream, everybody seems like so intense. But then when they're off to the sky, there's chatting and talking, you know, in between their rounds and stuff like that, or even between their turns playing the game. So great atmosphere, great people, best players, and, wow, intense, but awesome. I just want to let you know, Mark, we're very disappointed with you, and that next year we expect you to bring the trophy home to the Spinner as late. Bring home the gold, baby. I know. Now you did great, man. I'm going to do it next year. Hell no.
    60:48
    If I get in the B division, I'll be happy. But I just could not do the qualifying. A B trophy is a trophy, baby. It's all that matters. Just bring that trophy home. There you go. That's right. It's a nice plaque. Yeah, it's cool. No, it's awesome.
    61:06
    So now the client one of the group gets to jump in. Brian and his repair corner report for tonight on Dan's recent score of a really heavily routed Indy 500, which you polished into gold. I don't know if I would say it was heavily routed. It had been routed, but it was not in bad shape at all.
    61:34
    You know, the plate footwear was very minimal. No fade on the cab except where it had been played enough Where they'd worn the paint off of the vinyl that the decals are printed on The biggest issues I guess were Probably those unique 3D targets that are on Indy 500 With those four LED corners in the corners At some point they ran too long of screws through the holes And that did unfortunately break through the playfield in some spots But, you know, a little bit of glue, some wood, and some clamps that took care of that.
    62:10
    Dan wanted, we got new ramps for it, put those in, came out great. Our buddy Eric Seifert took care of the welding we had to get done. The turbo itself had the majority of the spot welds broken. And the mounting spot for the right side habit trail was completely broken off and held on with, like, a paper clip just so it didn't get lost, I think. It came out great. You know, did the normal thing, just cleaned it up, played it, let the boys, my boys, sorry, work their magic on it, and it held up. The only issue was an EOS wire broke off, got that re-soldered on, and it seems like it's working fine. That turbo toy on that game is just incredibly neat. I love how it just spins up and just, you know, throws those balls out of there. It's really, it's a neat little toy. I wish I had better before pictures, but, you know, the pop bumper area was, like, pitch black. Just coil dust. Complete and perfect coil dust.
    63:12
    It cleaned up nice. Boards didn't need too much work, if anything. It cleaned up nice. It's a fun-playing game. I'm hoping Dan will be happy with it, and it's nice to get it off the docket. I got Henry's Indiana Jones is sitting in the garage waiting to get started. How does that turbo work, just out of curiosity? You were saying it's a really cool machine. So, like, there's a VUK that feeds into it, and that kicks it up into the turbo. But inside the turbo, it's basically just like a cross piece of plastic that divides it into four spots for the balls. And there's an opto in there that lets it – basically, it's used as a ball sensor as well as a position sensor. and so, you know, you lock it in there, the opto reads it. Okay, I've got one ball in here, and it's always spinning. So when you get another ball in there to lock for multi-ball, you know, it's going to move it into one of the other spots. It knows it's open, so you shoot it into the lock, then it'll turn around until it reads an open spot somewhere, and then it'll shoot it into that open spot. It's kind of like the dead world in that it knows that there's balls in there, but it may not always know how many there is, I think.
    64:28
    But it works. It's a really – God, it's a neat toy. So is it like a carousel and then it has the balls, almost like a roulette table kind of, and then it shoots the balls and releases them? Kind of. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, it holds like a roulette table, but then it just spins it up really fast and centrifugal force whips the balls out of there. And it is so neat. The only downside to it is Once you get three or four balls in there Is that they all go kind of at the same time It's not as a controlled release as you would hope But it still works really well And it's just super It's a really cool toy The spinning race car thing that's up in the upper right corner is okay But that turbo toy is just the neatest thing on that game by far And then the jumping pop bumpers with the flashes in there look great It's just, it's a neat game. It's not easy. It's a good game. It's a super good game, and it's not very easy to do well on. I haven't done well on it at all, but I haven't played it much.
    65:33
    But, like I said, my soon-to-be five-year-old, God, I can't believe I'm saying that, my soon-to-be five-year-old and my seven-year-old love it. Awesome. Yeah, but, you know, cleaned it up, did all the normal stuff, new rubbers, LEDs. I did my 3D lit targets in that game Fixed the 3D stand-ups in there Which was a little bit out of my wheelhouse First time I ever worked on those But we got them working Cleaned up the inside of the cab Did some airbrushing to cover up the wear on the outside Mylard over it And it's ready to go home to Dan To his giant palatial estate That he has plenty of room for pinballs That I just got rid of my couch so I could actually put all the pinballs in the living room.
    66:19
    But eventually you're cleaning out your garage, right? The plan is eventually, yeah, we're going to redo the garage. It's going to be more of a pinball room, and it's going to be real, real nice.
    66:32
    But eventually we'll have to because we have new furniture on order, so it's going to show up. The Indy 500, back on the subject, yeah, that thing looks really, really good. Brian knocked it out of the park. you know if you happen to live in the northern California area and you want to get him a game to have shopped you know I'm sure he'd love to do the work for you and man they are you know he really turns over every single nook and cranny they are gorgeous gorgeous games when he's done with them the world cup soccer he did for my wife is just immaculate and this Indy 500 which you know started off to be just a cheap quick dirty little shop for me to do myself and ended up coming over here is, you know, way, way better than I ever thought it would be. And, I mean, we did throw some parts at it. Did you tell about the parts? We threw ramps at it. Oh, yeah, the ramps. We threw some other goodies at it. But, I mean, you know, you can put all the parts that you want on a shitty-looking game, and it's a shitty-looking game with nice parts.
    67:32
    When you have somebody who has the ability and the expertise and the detail-orientedness to get the game where it needs to go, that's where you're just, you know, that's where you're doing real, real well. I can do a nice shop job, but it isn't half what Brian executes. So how long did it take you, Brian, total time? You know, I honestly have no idea because I had it finished a lot quicker than what I normally do because it wasn't as in-depth in terms of the work that needed to be done. Like there was no cab fade. There was no cabinet that I was like, okay, I'm repainting this because it's bothering me. even though I did the touch-up around the flippers because Dan was like, oh, I don't care, and I'm doing it because it really bothers me. Well, the parts came together, too, which was kind of an interesting thing about why this project went the way it did. It was like, wow, it would be really nice to have these, but there's no way they're available. Oh, wow, you can get ramps for this thing. And I was like, oh, I'm not going to spend the money, and then I did. But I'm like, oh, I won't get the ramps if you can't find the ramp stickers. Oh, you can get the ramp stickers. They're available.
    68:40
    You know, other than the parts that our buddy Eric fixed for us, we were able to find anything that we wanted for this game to kind of put it the way that we wanted it. The broken target faces, everything like that came together. I mean, there's little things for it that I'm sure will be harder to find, the race cars and stuff like that. But we were lucky enough that when Jeff and I went out and picked this thing up, most of the specific Indy 500 parts that we felt like we were going to need were there. Surprisingly available. Yeah, so I mean, while we were on the game, we were just like, yeah. And we could have pretty much done this game with the welding being done and just cleaning the ramps up. And it would have been probably just as nice or nearly as nice, but there's just something about a super clean game all LED'd out with all the broken parts fixed and replaced and just a beautiful, crisp, clean new set of ramps on it. Brand new Cliffies. We sent him some pictures and stuff so he can do Cliffies for other people down the road for their Indy 500s. It ended up being a very fulfilling project, and I'm really looking forward to putting some games under it before I have to sell it to Spencer. Pretty much. I want to see that. I want to play that in person myself. That sounds really fun. I think of it as my version of Hot Wheels the story behind that game I have a race car game now so I'm cool like Mark and it's the same announcer as World Cup so they go hand in hand don't they? I think that the announcers actually in this game are the real honest to God Indy 500 commentators from that year yeah they are Oh. It's like a skr and, like, somebody else, or I don't remember who it is. But, yeah, the sound package in that game is not bad. I mean, I don't think that there's a 90s Williams where the sound sucks. Even the ones like Mnemonic where they resorted to middling to left and middling impersonators are a lot better than the impersonators that you hear in games these days. And Indy 500, like, it has some really funny calls Like when you blow, like, an upper flipper shot You know, it'll be like, I don't even know if he knows the upper flipper is there Yeah, there is some good calls It's a pretty smart game for a game about, you know, race cars And I think that that's really cool And, you know, it looks great You know, the yellow and orange aesthetic is very, very exciting looking and, you know, the brake track is probably the stupidest toy ever made, but it actually like whoops that freaking car around so hard it's almost like this game's answer to the shaker motor. Yeah, it's definitely a lot faster than what Hot Wheels provides. Yeah, it is kind of like the Hot Wheels one, come to think of it, it's like, you know what this game needs? It's a freaking car that just whoops around in the thing. And then the Carter Burger is really neat, like a really neat, detailed little model. So, yeah, it's got a lot of cool stuff. And it's got, like, that one little scoop that kind of, you can, like, get in this one scoop, and then it, like, pops the ball up into another scoop, then it pops the ball out into the pops. Oh, yeah, the upper scoop, that's the way you can advance your multiplier.
    72:05
    That's just super neat. Like, it's got a lot of really clever shots. And then you have to make, like, what, 200 laps or something like that? I'm not even sure. honestly, when I was playing it, when I had it at my house, it was only quasi-functional. You know, it worked actually better than I thought it would have worked. Like, when I got that thing home, actually it flipped. And, you know, once we put a new DMD in it because the DMD controller board was fried, the game actually played. It wasn't far off. I put some LEDs in it so I could see what was going on and replaced a couple fuses. And I was like, wow, you know, this thing actually pretty much works. And then I got it over to Brian, and Brian's like, oh, yeah, you know, other than this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this, everything works.
    72:54
    You know, it sounds like we got a few things to fix. Oh, yeah, it's nothing hard. It'll just come out with the shop job. Sure. There was, what, a couple raised inserts, got those flattened, had to rebuild the VUK that leads to the turbo. Just normal stuff. Nothing seriously out of the ordinary. Well, congratulations, Brian. That's awesome that you shopped it all out. It's a great game, and it's not a common game to see that at least it's working. They're always beat to hell. As soon as people found out around here that Dan had one, and they knew that I was working on it, I'd run into people like Shannon. Oh, is Dan going to sell that Indy 500? And I was like, I don't think so. And I think Mike Hozier is interested in it. and everyone in their mother It a good Norman and it you know in terms of Nordmans you know it kind of like the poor man Whitewater Like you know that probably Norman best game of the WPC area but they're insanely expensive.
    73:54
    Oh, no, I think it's pretty hard to put that up against Scared Stiff. Scared Stiff is, well, that's also pricey, but I don't think it's as good of a game as Whitewater. But anyways, it's a fun game. I like it. It was definitely one of those. It was very Norman in terms of how he had to take it apart and put it together. Because, man, if you got one thing in the wrong order, you're taking three-quarters of that game apart to squeeze that piece back in. Oh, wow. I know because I made that mistake like four times.
    74:21
    There's a multi-ball thing on that game that's very similar to Scared Stiff. So when you're in multi-ball on that game, it's very much like Scared Stiff where you've got to shoot left ramp, right ramp. You can start with either ramp, but you've got to alternate for the jackpot shots. Then you're trying to reload the turbo. If you get three balls in the turbo, and then it'll kick one out. I think there's four ball multi-ball. It's been a while since I've played it. And then you can go for a super jackpot. But I think if you load all three in, then you get a super jackpot. It's really cool. So it is classic Nordman, somewhat similar. And the reason I bring up this, like, oh, man, it was heavily routed,
    75:03
    the route off that Dan got those from, I've known that Routop. Well, somebody bought him out, but the old Routop I'd known for years, and he had had two of those on location. I used to play the hell out of them. And they were great games, and they played pretty good, and he kept them up, repaired and everything, but they'd been on location making money for years locally. So that's why I knew about those. We have a theory that Spencer has been playing this game on location for years. Oh, I know I have. I guess the upcoming job is just Henry's Indiana Jones. That also turned into quite the bigger project than what I was expecting. It started with this path of adventure not working, and the opto covers were broken off.
    75:47
    And so, okay, you need a new opto board. Get the optos. We'll fix it. Then I took the board off, which I have now learned my lesson with Henry's games. You take the board off first before you order the parts.
    75:57
    And whoever had done the solder work on the back of the board had just roached it. It was unrepairable. So started with the Path of Adventure, got that in there and fixed, and then we lost the entire row of switches that the Path of Adventure controller is on. So we popped it open, and, yeah, it's just corroded. There's tons of corrosion on there.
    76:21
    And so it ended up, all right, Henry, bring it over, because there's no point in me just hacking this thing every little bit. Just bring it over, I'll shop it out, we'll get it working again. started with it. We got the cab back so it's square because the front was starting to split. We got leg plates replaced and now it's going to be a big project. This is not going to be a really easy i500. This is going to be a big one. So is it just me or is it always the path to adventure that is broken on that game? It seems like everywhere I go on location that's always the thing that breaks. It was badly designed. It's always broken but it's easy to fix. The big problem, I fixed it on Dan's, and I did it on my buddy Scott's, and I shopped out his home use only Indiana Jones. It would never go to the right far enough.
    77:09
    And if you look, it'll catch on the jackpot sign right there on the left ramp. So the solution is you've got to mark where it hits, or you can see where it hits, and then take a Dremel and take off some of that wood so it can go further to the right. because it will stop and hit that before you hit the end of the opto limit. And once I did that, it fixed it. I think on Dan's the other issue was it was going so fast that we had to put a piece of magnet strip in there because the ball was coming out of there too fast. That was a genius solution. I should have sold that mod. 20 bucks makes your path of adventure work, and it's like a two-step piece of magnet.
    77:49
    There you go. The mode starts group. you always have to drop it down with, like, some washers or something like that. It's a relatively easy game to do. I've done, like, this will be my third or fourth, I think. It's not a bad game to work on. There's just a lot of stuff going on. It's like the next game. There's a lot of optos going on. If something loses track, then the game kind of sucks. It's fine except for that back corner behind the path of adventure. Besides that, that game is pretty much dead simple. Like, I was really freaked out by the Path of Adventure until Brian showed me it comes apart with, like, two screws. I was like, oh, that's super cool. But, like, the spot where the little up post comes up to hold the ball from dropping in the Path of Adventure, the tolerances there are really, really tight. I would still rather take a part in Indiana Jones than a Star Trek The Next Generation.
    78:41
    It's probably about as complicated as Twilight Zone. And I know everybody's like, oh, Twilight Zone, it's so terrible. So, fire that zone once you, you know, take the upper play field out, much like Indiana Jones, it's a snap. You know, it's just there's a lot going on. So, you know what, though? I think the Indiana Jones pales in comparison to our real project. So, the creature from the dissected lagoon.
    79:09
    Yeah, Dan, we pulled the play field and we got all the wiring out. We pulled everything out of that game. That game is disassembled and it's on a table in my office, and we delivered the cabinet to our buddy Will Work for Pinball, George, for mucho reparo and re-decaling. But this will be the nicest creature around. So you've got the brand-new play field all done and installed thanks to Cheddar. Yeah. Cheddar did the play field swap for me. Right. And then Cheddar did the swap. and so the story with this game is, I don't know if we've told this on the show, I traded this basket case creature for a game from Mike Hosier, and he had sort of petered out on the project, and I put it together, and it was fine, right? Played great. Looked fine, and he included lots of great new parts with it. He included a new ramp set. So I did this job. Brian came over, did a great scoop repair. We threw a cliffy on it, and it was fine. And then they did the creature play fields, and I came into some money, and I decided I had to have one.
    80:25
    And once I did that, I was like, oh, well, we got to do the cabinet. And George was like, oh, yeah, man, I'll do the cabinet for you. And then he blew me off for like a year. And so, like, the other day, he calls me out of the clear blue. Actually, he sends me a text to say give me a call, and I'm like, oh, my God, what happened? And he's just like, hey, I'm ready to do your creature cabinet now. How soon can you get it to me? So Mike G., Brian, Other Dan, they converged on my house on Saturday morning, and it was like a feeding frenzy of people disassembling this pinball machine, putting things in the plastic bags, labeling. Like, we did a really proficient job of disassemblage, and we rearranged my game collection out to the living room while we were at it. and so yeah man you know it's both a lot more and a lot less than you think it's going to be when you get it out of the cabinet it can be worse like when I had everything organized I was sort of like wow it's not as much stuff as you think there's going to be but I'm sure when it's time to start putting it back it's going to be like oh my god what have we gotten ourselves into oh yeah I would argue with that because you have your Doctor Who, what, two games away from it that we can use to look at. Oh, no, I mean, I don't think... It's not as bad as it seems. I'm just talking about the volume of parts. Oh, yeah, yeah. It really drives home to you how empty a pinball machine is. Like, it's basically a big wooden box, and the playfield's almost all the action, and the playfield came out in one piece. A million plugs, but one piece. And then the four or five boards up in the back box and some other incidental stuff. And so when you actually have it disassembled and, like, I got it all organized and it's sitting on a table in my office, I was all like, wow, you know, it doesn't look like that much when you have it organized and just sitting here. But I know that when we start putting that son of a bitch back together, it's going to feel like 100 million parts.
    82:33
    Dan, when you mentioned product, I thought you were talking about the $40 Funhouse Playfield Home. $40. So the hobo find. Yeah, so we got that going on. And then Brian. Brian has one of these projects that we have to get. He has two of these projects we have to get doing. And maybe this will be the beginning. Like, this is the first step. Once we get this thing back together, we'll have the cockiness to start doing yours. Because he's got. I'll let you guys touch my game. You guys are nuts. I mean, me and you. And me, I'll just be cheering you on. But, yeah, no, we have a fun house to restore, and you will not believe what he found and where he found it. So last Saturday, Dan and I were heading over to go to Todd and Suzy's to help get things ready for the guys to come pick up the punk and all that stuff.
    83:25
    And I'm driving to go get some gas, and I pass this little homeless strip at the end of Keeper out here in Sacramento.
    83:33
    There's some caravan sitting there, and I pass. I was like, man, those are two pinball playfields sitting up against that caravan thing. And I stopped my car, and I was real tempted to turn around right away. But I was like, no, I'll go get my gas, and I'll come back because it's still going to be there. So, yeah, I came back and pulled in. And outside of this guy's caravan, he's got a partially populated Gore Guard, and he's got a partially populated Funhouse Playfield.
    83:59
    So I start yelling and not yelling, you know, hey, who's here, and trying to find out who lives there, find out what's going on with these things. You know, this homeless tweaker guy comes out, and long story short is I talked him into the Funhouse partially populated play field, and he also had a trans light for it for $40.
    84:18
    Wow. Now, the play field's trash. Like, someone had painted over it, you know, it's going to be good to sand and put, like, an overlay on. Rudy's completely gone. Anything that could have been scavenged for copper is gone. But it still has the complete trapdoor assembly, you know, underneath and on top. There's plenty of metal habit trails there that whatever one looks better is going on in my game. And the Translight that I got off the street is in better shape than the one that's been in my game since God knows when. But it was still just another interesting, like, you never know what you're going to find when you pass a homeless encampment. Maybe drugs might be a fun house play field. You know, what's so funny about that is that's not the first story. That's the first one with pinball parts. But just like a couple of months ago Some guys I know They have Tim Mulsion but they're more video game guys And it was in the Bay Area And they found a homeless encampment With a battle zone in it And they're like should I go see if I can get that From them and I don't know what ever happened To it they were talking about it for a while And it just kind of died off because it's like No it's in a homeless camp But yeah it's a battle zone And the cabinet looks pretty good So it's just kind of funny Like, how does this stuff end up in homeless camps?
    85:32
    You know, it's just wild. So, anyway, that's an awesome story and a great score for you and the fact that you got a better Translight than you had. That's so cool. Like I said, it's not – can't turn it into a game, but I can use the parts that I need and the ramps are trash. So if someone hears, like, I wanted a flame polish to learn, fine. And, you know, I'm going to use what I'm going to use, and the rest of it I'll probably end up giving away on the Funhouse group or something or other. Yeah, and if you just keep your eyes open, man, you never know what you're going to run across out there. You know, I think that that's how most of the good scores in this world sort of work is just like, you know, you're going to run into the coolest thing when you're not even watching for it. Right. Yep. No, that's always it. That's how I've stumbled across some really good deals on games in the past. I mean, not at a homeless camp, but, you know, just randomly, oh, hey, that's there? Cool.
    86:30
    So, but, man, great repair report and cool story, man. Brian always comes up with these great stories. It's just like, you know, it's just like you guys are cool adventures.
    86:43
    We lost another personality at pinball, a fantastic designer. Legend? A legend, yeah. I was having breakfast last Saturday or two Saturdays ago. My daughter and son-in-law were talking about that. It's like there's people that like they're just when they pass and you cannot find anybody that, you know, it's like nobody ever had anything bad to say. And Barry Orsler was one of those people. You know, you never hear anybody saying anything negative about the guy. You know, always everyone in the industry only had positive things to say about him. But, unfortunately, he's passed. A great designer. And what's interesting is I didn't realize how many games I love that are designed by him. There's so many good games.
    87:34
    And it's funny because when you go to people's collections, you're like, oh, there's Steve Ritchie. And then I'm just like, oh, Barry did this game. Oh, wow, I didn't know Barry did this one. So, yeah, it's sad to see him gone. It really is. But he was also the one that had a lot of humor in his games, and it always helps make the game fun to play. Yep. You know, the embarrassing thing about Arcelor, too, was he started in the 70s, and he really peaked in the 80s. You know, he did some great stuff in the 90s and then just fell off the face of the earth. and just, you know, he was always with companies, you know, but he never seemed to land with anyone who was going to get a game out.
    88:23
    Yeah, right. It's a real shame. He had just ended up with American, you know, he was one of the building blocks of, like, the American rebuild, and, you know, it's a real pity that we lost him because I was really looking forward to seeing, you know, what he could put out.
    88:39
    You know, he's a guy who, I mean, he's a legend. You know, that guy, that guy, you know, a lot of people, it gets thrown around. Oh, you know, they saved pinball, you know, space shuttle in 1985. If that game hadn't been a giant hit, like it was Williams was ready to stop making pinball machines. Yep. And that single handedly, you know, put them back in the game and put them in a position where they were able to take over Bali and have some success. And then the other companies, you know, the Data East showed up, the Premier showed up. And, you know, it was the spark that led to the pinball explosion in the 90s. He was there for that with Graham Stokers and, you know, Whodunit, which I think is just a closet favorite of almost everybody in the room. Love that kid. Yep. You know. Absolutely. And he was a teammate, you know. he worked with a lot of guys, you know. He worked with Futz on Doctor Who and made it into a great game. He worked with Python a lot, including on Popeye, which, you know, some people might not thank him for, but it's a game. It plays.
    89:53
    Spencer loves it because he's a sailor, man, so. You know, that game, and a lot of people who own that game have said of that game, it's so close to being a fantastic game. If they just had changed the rule set a little bit. It says it's got one of the best video modes in all of pinball. I've heard a lot of people say that. I've played it on location. I'd love to have one, because I love the theme. Are you talking about Popeye? Popeye, yeah.
    90:19
    I like Popeye, but man, that play field is a mess. Yeah, it's pretty wild. It's just like, it's a little crazy. It makes me think of Escape from the Lost World.
    90:33
    Well, but I'm just saying that It's like a play set under glass. And in this case, it's like a boat. Well, yeah.
    90:42
    The problem with Popeye is, is when you think Popeye, you think he's beating the crap out of Pluto and all this weird stuff's happening, you don't think Popeye's going to save the environment.
    90:54
    Right. Yeah, that really sounds like that. Popeye's going to save the bald eagles. No, Popeye's going to beat the crap out of Pluto and maybe a meat or two. and not worry about the bald eagles. And that's where they kind of lost it. It's just Popeye could have been a better theme if they incorporated more Popeye and less not Popeye into it. I don't know. The 90s was a weird time to make a game about Popeye, but it was apparently a passion project for Python Angelo, and Barry Osler was there to help him get through it. Right. And to make it into some sort of game. And it does have some cool mechanisms, I'm sure. The Microsoft is in the S, you know. And it does have a style, you know, just at all. I don't think you'd ever call Alaskan to something that was, you know, really, really fun to play. Universally revived is like the worst white body. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? But, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, he finished his career out with, what, Junkyard? Yeah. I have the list in alphabetical order. That's a solid B game, you know, and, you know, it's got its fans. It's got the people who love it. So, you know, I think that, you know, you got to give Alistair all the credit in the world. The guy had a tremendous career. He meant a huge amount to the industry. And, you know, it's a shame that we never got to see him. You know, we never got to see what he would have been like in the 2000s, the 2010s, the 2020s with the kind of, you know, technology that we have now. Right. Now, I have a question for Space Shuttle. Am I imagining things, or is that like one of the first games that had a toy in it? Nope. You're not imagining the toy in the Space Shuttle. It's the first game. I believe that it's big first because it was the first game with molded plastic ramps. With molded plastic ramps? Because that's the thing I remember with Space Shuttle is it was that toy. It was the Space Shuttle, and it didn't do anything, but it captivated my interest, which made me play the game. Well, what was every little boy in the 80s was Shuttle Matt. Absolutely. It was the representation of the future. Yeah. And, you know, unfortunately, not super long after Space Shuttle came out, you know, reality set in with the Challenger disaster. But, you know, that's not to take away anything from the pinball machine itself. It is a great pinball machine. And I think when it came out Like it was The best pinball machine I mean I guess you could say well Gorgar has six ball multi ball And Black Knight did this and Flash Gordon Did that but to me it's like Just the simple Addictive gameplay You know the heat shield And the little The little escape hatch You know made it feel really fair It gave you lots of opportunities to not die. And it was incredibly cool to not hit the drop target and hit that ramp. The drop target blocking the ramp was genius. That was fun. Yeah, it's just such a great game. And, you know, I don't know if we're going to talk about our favorite Ocelers, but, I mean, I'm going to jump in there just up front and say I love whodunit, but, man, it's got to be Space Shuttle. And, you know, it's a game that I will definitely have in my collection someday because I just, I really, really enjoy Space Shuttle. And in a weird piece of Dan trivia, when I won league, that was the game I kicked Rick's ass at, which is not to say I kicked his ass, it's to say I had a slightly less bad game. Still counts. There you go. Go to IPDB, look up Owlsler. There's like 50 games on there, and they're all pretty much great. Let's go through just a couple real quick. Obviously Space Shuttle, which helped save pinball. It really did. Absolutely saved pinball. Gorgar was his best seller. For speech, yeah. 12,000 units. For a scam of speech. How important is Gorgar? Like, that was a huge game. And then I'm going to go with one more. Second best seller at 12,001 units, Pinbot. There you go. And you have one. A very nice one. And another landmark game. But, I mean, there's all, you know. Pinbot was genius. Like, Pinbot was in every arcade. Pinball has its own Nintendo game Pinball has its own handheld game Pinball's one I counted up in my head before the show Like a few days ago When I was writing show notes And there's like six games You can find non-pinball People who aren't insane like us But they know pinball And you can go, oh I know that game Because they know the artwork The visual imagery Or a sound call out And that's, pinball's one of them Captain Fantastic The EM Fireball EM And then you have High Speed, Pinbot Black Knight And Adam's Family If you take any of those games man they are so iconic That people on the street The average Joe that played pinball as a kid Or in college or whatever And you know they don't own it They don't go to the league of returners that kind of thing But they go oh yeah pinbot I know that game Used to play it in the arcade Oh, and I had the Nintendo game.
    96:16
    Yeah, the Nintendo game was a big thing. I mean, it was actually published by Nintendo themselves. They made a high-speed one as well. They did, yeah. Same maker, but that one wasn't published by Nintendo. It was published by TradeWest. Oh, really? You know, Pinbot is another game that, man, like, again, it was in every arcade. Everybody played it. The gameplay was so simple, so addictive. The theming was so dead on And the style is just like That game I mean here's the thing right When you were a kid What was Pimbot 87?
    96:52
    Pimbot was 86 October 86 So yeah it ran into 87 So we're like 10-11 years old Or I'm like 10-11 years old And I'm seeing that game in the arcade And watching it go through the attract mode and watching the visor flip up and down. And that was sort of like when you saw Adam's family for the first time and you saw a thing, for me, the reason that pinball was better than high speed was because of the visor. And you really just wanted to hit those targets so bad. So true. And lock the eyeballs and start the multiball and the music would kick in. And, you know, it was just an example of just, you know, 80s Williams at their finest. I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, I absolutely adore High Speed. You know, it's a Steve Ritchie masterpiece. And it's probably better for, like, the pure pinball player. If there's one bad thing about Pinbot, and I'm sure Spencer can relate being an owner, that game is fucking mean as shit. Yep. You know who has a high score on Honorable Crew? To kick you in the nuts. Yeah. You know who has a high score? That was, you know, genius, right? You know, if you want to play it and the game shuts you down, it makes more quarters. Especially when it drains out the pop numbers right into the left out line. Right, bang, like right into the left out line. It does so well, it does it in jackpot. Exactly. Jackpot does the exact same thing, and you're like, fuck this game. But jackpot at least has a ball saver, and sometimes it'll save you. Pinpot, man, that was pre-ball saver. You get that instant drain, and it's like, have fun being dead. That was me. The ball saves back then were for pansies. But, oh, yeah, well, there was no such thing. I mean, I didn't know what the first game of the ball saver was. But, yeah, man, Pinbot, like, that game just lived to house ball, yeah. Well, I know with Pinbot, the thing that I really liked about it is it reminded me of Breakout, but you weren't, like, it was kind of like, that's what it made me think. I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, it's a matrix.
    98:54
    Yeah, a physical Breakout game with Pinball. That's what it kind of reminded me of. Of course, you're lighting them instead of breaking them, but it was still kind of the same concept where you had to build that whole matrix, like you said. Yeah, the visor for sure, absolutely. That was the magical moment for me with that game was, dude, this is so cool how the visor opens and it lowers down. Oh, yeah, so cool. And it's such a good game. And it puts you into making those death shots. Yeah. Like you have to hit those like straight on bounce back at the flipper shots if you want to proceed through the game. And, of course, once you know how it works, you know that it's like if you can time it just right, you can open the visor with one shot. But, you know, as kids, none of us knew that, you know. And the little bagatelle thing, you know, on the right-hand side when you shoot up the ramp, and then it's like, oh, it either drops through the hole or it goes into the, you know, in the in lane or whatever. That was really cool how it randomized. The scary robot freak version of Bride of Pinbot. Yeah, exactly. It's funny, as those games went on, she, like, slowly and slowly got better looking. but yeah man just you know uh space station you know like i remember that was at the roller rink that i hung out with when i really got into pinball and you know getting that whole condition green thing and the big rotating space station toy and the really weird outlaying arrangement like you know all of his games i think that i think that you know if you think about any designer like i can go back and appreciate steve richie i can go back and appreciate. You know, Lala showed up right after that. But man, you know, the Owlsflare games were really the games of my youth. Yeah, they were so unique. Every design, I mean, Bad Cats. I mean, that was a great game, too. I mean, oh my gosh, love Bad Cats. The carnival ones, you know, Comet. Yeah, the carnival. Yeah, Comet.
    100:46
    Yeah. Those were everywhere, too. Everywhere. Everywhere you go, you'd find especially comments on Cyclones. I mean, come on, a Ferris wheel that was grabbing the ball? That was so cool. Yeah, and the ramp shots and, you know, yeah. I mean, he was very – now that I think of it, I thought it was Steve Rich or Mark Richie, but now it's Alzer that did the repeatable ramps, which I love because it's like you can just shoot that ramp all day and then you just make that one miss and you're like, oh, crap, I got to start all over again, like with Police Force, Bad Cats.
    101:24
    Cyclone. That was definitely one of his trademarks was the repeatable ramp. The Cyclone. Yeah. Oh, man. It's so good. Yeah. You know, he was part of all of our youth, you know? I mean, just talking about all the games. I do. As we have this conversation, it just occurs to me so much that, like, again, you know, those games were really the games of my youth. Like, every one of his games was a memorable game that I wanted to play because the themes were great, because the gameplay was always challenging, but fair, except for Pinball, because fuck that game. But you wanted to play it because it was so cool. Like, you know, he's really just – it's just such a tough loss. I mean, I know it will be just as bad when we lose Steve Ritchie and when we lose, you know, Pat Lawler. You know, none of us are getting any younger, but, you know, just – you know, when I heard about Arcelor, it was just what a tragedy because we never, you know, I wouldn't say he peaked with Junkyard. You know, he definitely peaked in the 80s. But, I mean, you know, Bram Stokers is a hell of a game.
    102:26
    Oh, that's a great game. He's got an underrated classic of theming. And I don't think it's his best play field, but it's just such a great theme. Yeah. And I really was, you know, I liked his style in the 90s. You know, he really, his games, you know, had a weirdness to them. Although I do think Junkyard's kind of it. But, yeah, Junkyard. Yeah, but you've got to love that. Okay.
    102:50
    You've got to love the wrecking ball, though. That's a cool Mac. You know what I would have loved about Junkyard was the original theme for Junkyard was going to be all built out of, like, the pieces of the biggest games of, like, the previous decade or so. Oh, that would be cool. Yeah. So it would have had bits of Adam's family and bits of this and bits of that.
    103:11
    Yeah, it was – I mean, when I'm looking through this list and I'm like, Like, man, his shot layouts were all different. They didn't all have the same shot layout when I'm looking at the list. Like, he had a uniqueness to a lot of his designs, but then he had some things that were trademarks of him, like I said, with the center ramp.
    103:32
    But they all had a unique design and gameplay, which made them so good. Yeah. Well, he's going to be missed. You're going to miss Al Zor. The shame is he never got to give us one more game. I know. This is my last game, guys, but I'm going to give you a good one, you know. Yeah, it's too bad. It's too bad. He fought long and hard. I know he fought cancer and, you know, a lot of other illnesses and always kept his smile on his face, always had time for his fans. So, you know, God bless him, man. Yeah.
    104:09
    And on new news, you know, we keep going. We keep throwing and we keep playing pinball And people keep making them guys P3 Multimorphic has announced The Weird Al Yankovic game And I am excited I am too I can't wait I am buying one You're going to go P3 finally Oh I got it I can't have told the world So many times that Weird Al Would be the perfect game And then have them come out with a game and be like Yeah man not buying it I'm going to figure it out I should be getting I've contacted Cointaker and I told them I was interested and they said okay you know the details will be out on Monday so I guess we're going to find out tomorrow how brutal it's going to be and how many games I'm going to have to sell to pay for this thing but I am going to make a run at this one I am excited to tell everybody for the record that Press Start will be getting a Weird Al Yankovic P3 Multimorphic module. They have a heist. They don't have a heist. It wasn't there with their last. Right. So they just need to get a kit.
    105:24
    Yep. They just need to get the kit, and the cool thing about it is the owner of the heist module in the P3 is a Weird Al fan. So he's like, oh, and he didn't even know about it. I was like, hey, did you hear that Weird Al is coming out for P3? He's like, really? He's like, oh, I got to call them right away and get one on a test location. Because as we all know, it's rare to see P3 multimorphic pinball machines in a public venue. There's very few on location. There's very few. But Press Start will be getting one. So my understanding is that kits are available. Yes. Like you can get the kit now. I also heard just recently that they have all the parts. They just don't have all of them assembled yet, but they do have all the parts.
    106:14
    So as far as the supply issue, they have all of the inventory. They just need to manufacture and build it and put it together. But I'm telling you something, I'm blown away by how packed that play field is for just being the top half. Pretty impressive. You shoot the ramps, and the way, like, okay, you shoot the ramp, and then it flips up and flips it backwards down the habit trail. How cool is that? And then, thank God, they incorporated, you know, they've incorporated UHF because the camera has U62, which is the TV station in the movie UHF. They have the song, and it's like, and that camera moves, and it's a lock that ejects the multi-balls, and it turns like a cannon. How cool is that? They did a really super good job Of kind of extending the P3 You know, because P3, I think The biggest complaint with people who aren't in the know about P3 Is that, you know, it's that Well, everything's at the back of the playfield So the bottom of the playfield's all barren And this is like, it's got ramps that are going down the sides It's got a playfield cross you know it really does seem to have I mean a pretty full feel it is very it is very back heavy because that's just sort of the nature of the beast you know but you have you know you have the virtual targets the rollover stuff so I'm you know I'm really oh man I'm you know I'm excited man and I just I saw the video I heard the announcement and then it was like the announcement was like oh coming soon from P3 so I think we just watched it I think somebody told us oh shit there's a Weird Al game so I kind of got spoiled but it was just like I saw that and I was just like oh you're freaking kidding me nobody knew that that was just like out of left field nobody knew nobody it was the same kind of thing like holy crap they're going to do really well I know that when that goes on sale tomorrow I think that's the 28th right I mean tomorrow. It's going to be a huge seller. It's going to sell well, and if it's any sort of a continuation after Heist, because Heist was finally, for me, like, all right, P3's legit. Heist is really, really fun. Awesome game. If it even gets remotely close to being as fun as Heist is, they're going to have a huge hit on their hands. And a lot of people, like you guys have mentioned, haven't played it because there's not many out on location. And I think if those people who complained about the bare lower play field and actually played a game where it's used well, like in Heist, that complaint would disappear. Well, you can think of all the crazy things. It is the same dude who designed the Heist module. Yeah, then you better be kidding me. And then it's got... Who is it? It's Bo and Karen's and some other pinball badass did the rules. and Scott Denise, he did the music, and someone who I don't know did the art, and Weird Al did the call-outs. 2,000 of them. 2,000 call-outs from Weird Al. Think about that, how awesome that is. 2,000 call-outs, and 1,999 of them are just him counting. Yeah, probably.
    109:45
    Well, the thing that's funny about it, or not funny, but the thing that's going to be cool is there's so much weirdness to Weird Al, So they have to incorporate that screen to shoot at weird, bizarre stuff. I hope so. Because, I mean, there's a couple of things I saw. Like there's like a random, almost like a Wheel of Fortune kind of thing that spins around. The Wheel of Fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
    110:08
    Yeah, that's cool. And the diverters, there's a whole bunch of different diverters. The spiral wire form is pretty cool. I'm excited to see how that works.
    110:18
    I mean, it's Bo and Karen, so the rules got to be good. so I think it's a slam dunk I really do I think it's going to be really good you know here's the thing that I wonder so P3 is virtually 10 years old right 7 years old something like that and they sold a couple hundred of them You know is this going to be the thing that puts P3 on the map
    110:44
    You know, is Al the driver that they needed? I mean, again, you know, it's got me going like, okay, well, it's got to happen, you know. I mean, I'm not even going to lie, man. I wish it wasn't a P3. I wish it was going to be a nice Stern Pro or an American pinball or something like that so I didn't have to spend $13,000, $14,000 on it.
    111:09
    But, you know, the fact that it is a P3, like, there are certain advantages to the platform. You know, it's got the online connectivity that everyone else is just catching up with. It's got the modular system, so, you know, if you decide that you want Heist or if they come out with another really killer theme or, you know, if you really like Lexi Lightspeed or Cosmic Kart Racing, you can hook those up, although I'm pretty sure that mine will spend about 99% of the time just as we're now. Of course. But it's a really cool platform with just a ton of potential, and they're constantly enhancing it. You know, apparently this one has the newest flipper system, which is supposed to feel more natural. It has a new system for the pop-ups. Now, that's my question about that. Speaking of that, I'm glad you brought that up. The new upper flipper modules. The upper flipper modules are extra, of course. But, wait, is it five flippers in the game? Is that what I heard? Five? Is it upper flipper? That's what I was thinking. It has five flippers. That's crazy. Upper right, bottom left, bottom right, and then it has a little mini one in the Al's Cafe area. Wow. It's sort of got that same thing going on that, like, Pirates of the Caribbean, and, you know, stuff like that where there's like a bajillion flippers.
    112:28
    So, yeah, it looks crazy. It looks crazy in fact. Yeah. Now, for the scoops, I was reading that they have motorized scoops instead of with the solenoid. How is that going to be incorporated into the game? Is that going to be like from this point forward if you get a brand-new machine that it's going to be motorized, or can that be retrofitted with the old games, you know? Maybe, Brian, you know because that's engineering stuff. I think the difference is just like the older ones have a solenoid that drives them, so the action is more abrupt, and the newer ones are going to have a motor drive them, so the action is more smooth. I don't think it's going to make much difference as to the functionality, and I'm sure the program will just allow for whichever one that you have. Okay, but it's not like something you can upgrade on your existing machine. It's something that's coming with the new. I haven't really mentioned it. Yeah, I have no idea. Yeah, I'm wondering about that because I saw that. I was like, because the way that they utilize those scoops is pretty cool because that's like an additional shot depending on what pops up, which like they do with heist when you finish a mode. I love that. That's so cool. And then you have the side targets too. You have the stand-up targets, which are like the big rectangles, I guess you could say, as a stand-up target. But, yeah, like I said, if they incorporate the screen to go with the actual hardware that's up in the top of the play field, they could do a lot with it. And they do have a good selection of songs across all the albums. I was surprised they had that sports song one. That was kind of surprising that that was in there.
    114:08
    Yeah, 17 songs, and I agree, sports song kind of sucks. Yeah, I was like, okay, that was interesting that that was picked, but who knows. But I guess there's a mode that ties to it. You know, I guess that Al curated all the songs that are in it, and they worked with him on how the songs would incorporate and what the modes would be like. And, you know, I think that they – we were lamenting that it doesn't have a biggest ball of twine in Minnesota mode.
    114:34
    But, you know, I mean, it doesn't mean that, you know – You mean the other one? Yeah, that they might have new expansions. I wanted Mr. Frump and his Iron Lung multiball. you know.
    114:47
    It's got to be stupid. That's, you know, one of the more important ones. So, yeah, I'm just, you know, I really just, I don't want to wax too poetic about it. You know, I've been saying for years, Weird Al's, it's a music theme that, like, they'll never do, but, like, the cross-section of pinball fans and Weird Al fans has to be huge, and because we're all a little weird. So I'm looking forward to seeing how this thing turns out, man. I really, really, really, really am excited. You know, if you think about it, you mentioned a manufacturer who would make a Weird Al game. Weird Al's reputation is a weird guy, right?
    115:31
    P3 has a reputation as a weird pinball manufacturer. It's a match. That's true, Brian. Yeah. And it was pretty right. It's like, you know, P3 makes a novelty machine. You know, Weird Al's a novelty artist. That's a match made in heaven. Yeah. But, you know, Weird Al is also, you know, the most successful novelty artist of all time. Everybody else even comes close. Yeah. It's a huge, huge get, I think, for Multimorphic. Oh, yeah. And I'm hoping that this, you know, I'm hoping this sells some units for them. But not so many units that it's hard for me to get one. All week long I've seen multimedia outlets, you know, that are completely unrelated with pinball because Weird Al is a multi-Grammy winning artist. And so it's like, hey, Weird Al's got something. You know, it's been on his website for a week or two. You know, coming soon, Weird Al Pinball. It's been on, you know, all the mainstream or more mainstream less pinball media. So it's getting out there and the quote-unquote non-pinball people are going, Do you hear Weird Al's getting his own pinball machine? And then they're going to take a look at the video. If they've got that kind of coin, they're going to plunk down on it. Let me take it back off of what you said, Spencer, because out of curiosity, Weird Al posted the pinball machine trailer or the promo video. There were 641 comments about that game from just general public, from Weird Al fans.
    117:01
    Right. So that told me right there that people are really excited about this game. and this will get pressed when it's released. It will be on the news because Weird Al is a worldwide phenomenon. I mean, the guy is amazing. In fact, when they announced that game, I was like, you know, I don't want to watch some Weird Al videos. I watched them for three, four hours straight on Friday night with my kids, laughing hysterically. Weird Al fans are rabid. Like, we go to every show and we buy pretty much everything that you can buy because he's never made the mistake of overplaying his hands. Right. Like, there's not so much Weird Al stuff out there that you don't want more. And what's interesting is this will be the first game, the first pinball that will have hip-hop in it with White and Ernie.
    117:49
    Yeah, it's got White and Ernie and it's got Almond Paradise. It's got two hip-hop music that you never heard in any pinball game before. so this could bring a nice here's a funny Weird Al story back in the 90s a buddy of mine calls me and he's like hey Dan I'm at Tower they have the new Weird Al single do you want me to pick it up for you and I was like nah I'll just pick up the album when it comes out and he's like it's called Amish Paradise and I'm like yeah you better buy that is the best song and best video ever oh it's so good it's incredible and I'm really hoping that, like, we get some video assets.
    118:31
    You know, I know that you've seen the art style, and it looks really cool and custom and cartoony and faithful, but it would be also nice if, like, we do get some of the music video assets in there. And, I mean, I don't know if you guys have ever been to a Weird Al show, but he does mock interviews that are the funniest thing that you've ever seen. Yeah, I've seen that on YouTube where he, like, takes clips. Yeah, Al TV. Like, oh my God. Yeah, yeah.
    119:00
    So there's just so many places that they can take this game and just make insanely fun and insanely cool modes. And they have all this video space because you have the video play field and the video back box. And there's just a lot of places that Weird Al can go that might make this one of the coolest music machines ever made. I'm really loving my Guns N' Roses. don't get me wrong you know I don't know if this is going to be you know better than Guns N' Roses if P3 is going to outdo Jersey Jack or anything I don't know if this is going to be a better shooter than Rush but I mean I promise you that it's going to have a degree of artist cooperation and interactivity that I think will be just unparalleled and you'll be curious like how soon will they get it out I mean I don't know I'm excited about it it's going to be cool got to wait next week Dan's like Brian come over it's here that'd be cool huh help yourself one we're going to be finding out I can tell you this that he's going to have a real problem getting orders because I guarantee you I'm sure those LEs will sell out I mean come on an accordion topper with weir on top that's got to be the coolest topper ever man that's so cool they're trying you know, they have 227 LEs, which, again, sounds super limited until you consider that they've sold a couple hundred P3s. So, you know, do I think that, you know, they'll get snapped up because of the weird speculator nature of pinball right now. And pinball owl fans. Right. Yeah, but I'm hoping that, like, it's more owl fans, you know, getting in on this and that, you know, it's not like you have to fight with a scalper. and I'm hoping you know that just I don't want to be like you know don't be too successful but yeah I'm hoping that the people who really want it can get it. I agree. You know and you know with this kind of purchase you know I think that it's you know there's two people who are going to be in on this it's going to be the hardcore you know because again it's not like a $6,000 $7,000 Stern Pro you know your cost of entry for Weird Al you know is $8,000 for a P3 and $3,000 for the AL module, you know, so you're talking about $11,000.
    121:25
    Right, you're talking $13,000 plus for that LE. So again, you know, the only people who are going to be going after this are the people who really, really want it or the people who really, really think they can flip it. And I don't know if P3 is a super flippable platform, so I'm really hoping that, again, those LEs are going to be available. But like I said, I've got my name in with Cointaker. I emailed them last week and said, hey, I'm interested. Their response was so current. Cointaker's awesome. They're so good. They're like, alright, great. We'll have information for you on Monday. I'm like, thanks, Melissa. Yeah, Melissa's awesome.
    122:04
    So, hopefully we've got good news tomorrow. Here's my question. If you order a brand new game, do you get Lexi Lightspeed included or is that in addition to the Weird Al module?
    122:19
    No. As far as I understand, the basic system comes with no game. Wow. I checked the website yesterday, and that's the understanding I got, too. So, it's $8,000, and then again, you... Wow. And then during the pandemic, they had a package where it was like, for whatever it was, like you would get the system, and you'd get all the games for like $15,000. And at the time, it was, you know, you got Lexi, you got Cosmic Kart Racing, and you got Yeah, I remember that deal. Oh, man. And so that's a great deal.
    122:55
    You have a fourth module. Three games in one. It's basically you're getting, like, a couple modules for free.
    123:04
    And then you have, or you're getting a module for free. And then, you know, each of the games, each of the modules has a couple few games that play on it. So, like, Lexi Lightspeed, I think also plays Cannon Lagoon, and you know, Cosmic Heart Racing also plays Sorcerer's Apprentice, and you know, there's other little ones, and then I don't know if Heist has a second or third game, or second game attached to it yet. So, obviously, my first concern is like, let's get Al, and then we'll start worrying about getting Heist. Exactly, and the other thing too is, hopefully those mechs are reliable because I know with our Heist that we have, we have problems with that crane, and it constantly had to be repaired on location.
    123:49
    It really doesn't seem to me like P3, almost like JJPs as well, but I think that those are meant for home use.
    124:00
    When they had a hike out there on location, I too was just like, wow, I wonder how reliable this is. And then when we went up there last time and the P3 was off the floor, I was like, well, I guess that answers that, because that crane has got to be the most complicated mechanism have ever put in a pinball machine. Super complicated. And tough to repair. It just does so well. Tough to repair. Yeah, so, from what I've seen, you know, and when we went to, so at the time, Rob Anthony was distributing P3, and when it first came out, or early on, like, he came, and he did a demonstration where he showed us how to swap a playfield module, and, you know, how the flipper rebuild works, which is hilarious, because it just pulls out of, like, a big cartridge, and then you rebuild it on your bench and then you just pop it back in, plug the plugs in and it works. And, you know, he's like, conceivably, if you operate this thing, you know, you could just carry a whole new set of flippers with you, pop it in, pop it out, get on with your life and take, you know, take it back to your shop and rebuild it. So I know that they built at least the early version with operation in mind, but you have to wonder as time went on and, you know, it gets more specialized. Like, obviously, Weird Al's not going to swap out like Lexi did because there's just far more to the Weird Al module than there was to the Lexi module, you know, and Heist doesn't swap out like Lexi did because there's far more to the Heist module. So I wonder how much the swappable thing will come into it. Like I said, I think that if I get Weird Al, you know, even if I do get heist, the game will spend the vast majority of the time as Weird Al, because it's not just, you know, pull the cartridge out, blow on the other cartridge and stick it in. Right, right. It's like, you know, it's an undertaking, and then you've got to store basically a third of a pinball play field somewhere. So I don't know if the swappableness means as much to me as it could mean or the quick changeable art or any of that whole crap. I just am excited because it's Al, and I'm excited because I do like pinball platforms. I think the JJP platform is amazing, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what the P3 platform is all about. Me too. I think this is finally going to get them on the map. They needed a theme, and they chose the right theme. And I'm excited to hear Denise's music too. I didn't even know he was doing the music for that. But yeah It'll be interesting to see how he incorporates That along with the tracks But yeah that looks good I mean the artwork I don't hear anybody Complain about the artwork either people are really happy With it because it's got that zany Museum of What is it a museum of hilarity right Museum of natural hilarity That's great that's so good I wonder how they suckered Denise away From Spooky I thought he was kind of Thick as beef with Spooky but I don't know. They probably just say, hey man, you want to work on Weird Al? And he's like, yeah. He loves Weird Al.
    127:04
    It'll be good. Yeah, if you've ever seen the Weird Al short-lived Weird Al cartoon show, the artwork kind of reminds me of the animation of that the same style of art. So it really held true to Weird Al's legacy. And, yeah, I'm excited. I'm glad you're excited, Dan.
    127:29
    Can't wait. Either way, I'll be either coming up to Sacramento or going to Press Start to play it because I think it's going to be fun to play.
    127:38
    Well, if I get one, it'll be my first new inbox. And while I know that the unboxing party doesn't matter to a lot of people, I will invite anybody who wants to get involved in it over to be involved in it. Well, you'll need 10 people anyway to carry that damn thing. Because it's so heavy. Ten people or one Alex. I have a J.J.P. Pirates. I'm ready for it. Good point. He's killed two old EM bingos a while ago. Yeah, I heard those are the heaviest. Yeah. Dude, they were insanity. Yeah. Our free bingo score, I think we picked that up. There was some sort of giant fire in the area, so we're breathing thick-ass smoke carrying, you know, 400-pound pinball machines. Oh, gosh. Dumbest thing we've ever done. That's not true. I get two cool wall hangings out of them. And that's what we got in two planters that just exploded.
    128:29
    And I have one back left still. Wow. We'll get you out here from the great white north, and we'll get you out here from Reno. And Brian will probably come over because he lives 10 miles away. That's a long time. I know, man. It's a long schlep. We'll have to give it a little time. That sounds really exciting. Can't wait. Good. Me too, neither.
    128:55
    So, this is a weird news item. I mean, it's kind of expected, and it's really good. Stern announced this week that they're going to put a delay on their next title, that they're not going to release another game until end of August. Well, they announced they're changing their business model. Okay, I didn't get that. I just got their delay. They're not going to do as many games. They're going to go to two. Two Cornerstone a year. two cornerstone games a year for now yeah and this will allow them to catch up on their back orders I think is the idea so Venom has been delayed yeah so and you know the neat thing so far that I've seen so I kind of kept up on this a little bit is I've seen no negative feedback on their decision everybody pretty much universally was like yeah that's no you know we want new games, but can you get all the back orders? Get all the back orders, right. I mean, if you think about it, they've got back orders from games that first came out over four years ago. You know, Deadpool back orders are insane. They don't have back orders from the initial release of Deadpool, though. No, no. They have some back orders from people who ordered Deadpool three years after the back. Right, you just want the game. Guardians of the Galaxy. There's still dudes waiting for their Mandalorians. There's still guys waiting for Mandalorians. There's still dudes waiting for House of Horrors. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, House of Horrors. over a year. I'm talking to you and Sparks, right? Say that again?
    130:28
    That was an awful joke. Spencer, I've seen a lot of people whining and complaining about it. I've seen people who don't. But I take it like this. It's pinball. Someone's got to be pissed about something or it's not pinball. Right. Well, there you go. I haven't really been keeping close eye, but so far all the feedback I've gotten from people Everybody's been, yeah, man, just let's get to the backwards middle. That's what they're saying. Get me my game that I ordered. Yeah, but, you know, I mean, I can't believe people are like, you know, that game's fine. People are still like, if you're going to make it, I'll take one. You know, it's like, okay, cool. Here's my take on it. Maybe this is the hot take, but it's like, it's great for people who want titles and it's bad for speculators, so I'm in favor of it. You're right. all we're doing is stoking the flames of what's the next game, what's the next game, what's the next game, what's the next game. I want to buy it. There's not enough supply out there, so people get desperate for it, and that's where the scalpers can jump in, buy up as much as they can buy up, and then turn around and sell it to the people who really want it.
    131:37
    I'm in favor of anything. I think that, what was it, three, four games a year, they never gave a game a chance to breathe. Ninja Turtles came out, was just finding its footing, and then whatever came out next came out. And then that game was just finding its footing, whatever came out next came out. You know, Godzilla came out. It's a big hit. Everybody loves it. Everyone's waiting to get it. And they're already like, okay, now we're shoving Rush into the channel.
    132:04
    Give us some time, breathing room. Right. Give that game a chance to be successful. And then, you know, if you bring out a game and it sort of bombs and it's not doing as well as you thought it would do, that's where you sneak in with a vault. You know, you're like, okay, well, this game's not doing super well. Maybe we're going to do some more Ghostbusters, you know? If Rush wasn't a big hit or if Led Zeppelin wasn't a big hit, okay, we'll do another run of Iron Man, you know? Maybe we'll do that, you know, long-awaited re-release of Tron that everybody's like Jones and poor. But, yeah, just, you know, Stern has just had this thing where they've been running at such a breakneck pace. I think that they're figuring out that, again, you can't keep feeding the speculators. Eventually, it's going to cause your market to collapse. You've got to get the people who really want the games what they want.
    132:58
    You know, if you can't get something and you want it, eventually you just go, fuck it, and you move on. Or you move on to another company that has them. Or you move on to another hobby. You know, the people who are spending money on pinball, I mean, how many different things can you get lured away with? You know, we've had plenty of pinball people have been like, ah, fuck pinball, I'm going to buy a Porsche. Right. You know, I'm going to go to my pinballs and put in a swimming pool. You know, it's just, you know, guys move on. You know, we don't, you know, some guys will marry something, they'll be into it forever as long as, you know, they get what they need. Some guys don't get what they need and they just move along. He's trying to say they get married to a hobbyist Like what he just described as marriage You got it That was completely intentional You know somebody Put up a poll on Facebook About Toy Story Being 15k And uh Toy Story CE Will be 15k CE's will be 15k And of course the weird Al You know Ellie or whatever Gonna be you know 13 and change and it's like, what are your thoughts on this? What do you think about this? I'm like, what do I think? I think, fuck these guys. I'll keep my old games. You know, as much as I'd love to wear it out, man, that's way out of my price range. I'm going to have to keep flying out to California just to play yours, Dan.
    134:26
    Here's the deal, though, right? When the entry level is $11,000, it's just one of those things where it's like in the case of Weird Al you get kind of screwed because you have to pay for the platform unless you already have it it's like you know your Playstation 5 games are 50 bucks a piece which sounds great but buying your Playstation 5 is going to cost you $500-$600 you know while that's nothing in a pinball world that's a lot for a game console but once you own the platform the games themselves are cheaper you know and in the case of P3 is still like $3,000 a game. Right. In a world of $7,000 Stern Pros, you know, to somebody who just moves through games real fast, maybe that makes sense. I don't think, I mean, I don't want to buy a P3, honestly. I want to buy Weird Al. I wish it was cheaper.
    135:22
    But I think that, you know, in the case of the cost of games, we're having our limits tested by two things. Number one, it's a money hobby. People have money. Number two, again, and I keep harping on this, we got a bunch of fucking scalpers in this hobby. Yeah, we do. And they're buying things up, and, you know, they're creating the sense of urgency, and they're doing a great job of that, you know, led by Captain K himself. I don't care what anybody says. Right. And what it comes down to is just like, I hope that Stern's putting the brakes on and saying, we're going to make games longer and we're going to catch up on our backstop. So everyone who wants a game can buy it at Stern pricing, which still isn't a good deal because it's gone up significantly. And there's no more distributor discounts. but it sure beats buying it at, you know, scalper number one pricing. Agreed. Yep. You know, and even if it was a matter of just like, hey, I really want this, you know, there aren't very many people in this hobby who are willing just to say, you know what, no, I'm not going to pay your price. I'm just going to walk away and I'm not going to get what I want because most of these guys, they've worked hard their whole lives. They have plenty of money. They don't have to say no. Worst case scenario, they shrug their shoulders and say, that's life in the big city. Here's your extra $2,000. Give me my LE. Right. And even distributors now are charging more than SRP. I love that Zach Meany puts his price list online because it just lets you see, oh, wow, this guy's a distributor and he wants $16,000 for this whatever it is premium. That feels kind of shady. Aren't you supposed to be the guy selling it at cost? And, you know, they're like, hey, you know what? You know, fuck the scalpers. I want to make my money. Well, you know, and I'm just like, oh, what an attitude to have. You know, it's just like, oh. Right. And with the supply chain, they have to make up for the difference of not selling as many games. So they have to do that. You can't blame them. No. Oh, I can blame them. You can blame them. Again, it's MSRP. That's not a set price with, like, an Apple phone or a PS5 or anything like that. MSRP, it's suggested. I hate using it because it's just like a car. You know, it's MSRP, and a lot of places charge more for them. That's just all there is to it. Anyhow, yeah, this is a good thing, and I think it'll go hopefully a measure of a way towards setting things right. And I don't think we're ever going to see prices go down, But hopefully it'll keep things closer to FRP, and it'll let people get the games that they want. And the other good thing, too, behind it is they can focus on polishing the code for fewer games so they don't have to have, oh, this one's coming on, this one's coming on. They can focus. And CERN is really doing a good job on that, on updating code in a very short amount of time. I don't feel like code's been as big of a problem. I think that what we look at is like the dark days of code were driven by a couple things. I mean, first of all, they had a big shakeup in releases. So, like, I think that they had to go. They went out early with Batman. They went out early with Aerosmith. They went out early with Guardians. And those games all released, like, with super naked code. And, you know, rest in peace to Lyman. But Lyman loved to release games with super basic code sets. and then, you know, do a couple updates and really bring it to where they were supposed to be. So I think that those problems have, in a lot of ways, alleviated themselves. You know, I never really thought that Dwight's games felt like they had, you know, maybe people didn't like the code, but it was there. That's true. The dude, whoever the dude is who does, I always forget his name, but the dude who does Elwynn's code, like those games, you know, like I play an early version of Iron Maiden compared to the version now. Is it better now? Yes. Was it bad then? No. No. It felt great. So I think that Stern's got the code problem. But that's a great point. You know, having a little bit longer between releases means a little bit longer development cycle, means smoother gameplay, better code, you know, more reliability. Maybe they slow the process down and they catch some of these stupid errors once they get through the backlog. So, I mean, you know, but I don't want it to turn into, you know, a situation where, you know, Western's just like, well, now we're going slow, so it takes us forever to get games out, you know. Yeah, they're not going to do that. I hope not. But as long as they fulfill the orders. Like I said, Ted has been waiting for, I don't know, almost two years now getting an Elvira. Yeah. Now that they've made that announcement, he feels a little more confident that he's going to get it eventually. So instead of next Christmas or whatever, like they said. So wise-ass question here. With only three game releases, does that mean only six or nine price increases a year? Two-pointer. That's a good point, Ryan. Two-pointer is the one, yeah.
    140:37
    Like, you know, are they going to keep, you know, is it going to go up $5,000 now every single time between games? It's not every time. It's pretty much every year. Yeah. Well, and eventually they're going to hit that price ceiling where the games aren't going to sell. They haven't hit it yet, but it's going to come. They have to be close to there. At $7,000 for a pro, it's a lot of money. Sorry, that's a ton of money. That's a lot of money. No, we saw it on the show. It's fine. I'm going to get through an episode and not use the F-bomb one of these days. I just don't know when. Good job, Spencer. We believe in you. I know. Thank you, guys. He's going to get through. I think that's going to about wrap it up.
    141:18
    I agree. It was really good to have you on the show this time. It was really nice having you here. It was so good to have Brian back. Last time, it just didn't work out. I had other things going on. It was a rough week. Yeah, January was a rough one for me. I'm still struggling, but it wasn't a good one. Understandable. But it's great to have you on.
    141:39
    Thank you. Yep. It's good to have you back, man. Someday we'll get him his own reporting setup. Yeah. And then he can struggle with microphones like me. I'm just going to, we'll just put it out there and let the song go. And I'll just yell at it while I'm playing it on the game.
    141:55
    It'll be when I'm working on a game. It's like, oh, God. Damn it. It's like, son of a bitch. Because I found some other stupid problem.
    142:05
    All right, who wants to start the shout-outs? I will. Okay. Have you got the finish the shout-outs? I got shout-outs. I got a list. It's going to go quick, though. Okay. A long-time friend and supporter of the show and supporter of all things pinball, and he goes by the moniker Pismo Arcade on Pinside, even though he no longer resides in Pismo Beach. He's a resident of the great state of Utah, And that's Tony Agrusa. So shout out to Tony. Just be a righteous dude. And shout out to Greg Sacco, who I struggled with to remember his name last episode. Sorry about that. That's me because I'm getting old and senile. But a great fan of the show and a great dude. Fun to play pinball with and just hang out and talk with. Big car guy, too.
    142:56
    This is an interesting one. I want to shout out to, and I'm going to try not to butcher his last name, to Pavel Dorokovsky. He's from Kiev in the Ukraine, and he posted on Facebook today on Pinball Enthusiast.
    143:14
    He's been doing a, he's got a few games, and he's been doing a restoration on a Swords of Fury. And he showed before pictures where it was covering like half an inch of dirt. And he showed after pictures where it's just beautiful. He's still not 100% done. And all the guy wanted to do today was just share his progress on his game because he doesn't know if he's ever going to get to finish it. So if you're listening to this, Pavel, man, heart goes out to you. You stay safe, brother, and let your friends and neighbors know that people around the world are pulling for you and thinking about you. So, Pavel, as you're listening in the Ukraine, and to all Russian, because we have several Russian listeners, you guys do the same, man. Stay safe and keep playing pinball and keep a good thought for your neighbors.
    144:01
    And shout-out to Dan Costa, who's a good dude and a fan of the show. And, of course, the obligatory of most and practical thief shout-outs. Oh, and I got an e-mail from a listener we gave a shout-out to a while back. I won't mention his name. We've already mentioned it before. But we gave him a shout-out a few episodes ago. He was having a really bad week, man, and the work was just being a nightmare. and that made his day. And he emailed just to say, hey, thank you for the shout-out, man. That totally made my week. So people are listening. What we do matters. And be a good neighbor, be a good friend, man. So those are my shout-outs.
    144:39
    I have a shout-out for Jim Martin for bringing back pinball tournaments at Press Start. Thank you, Jim, for all your hard work getting everything organized and also managing the arcade as well, making sure everything's working perfectly when we have tournament nights and also running it. And we're obviously happy to help you out with that. But bringing it back is awesome. And another shout-out to Ted McGinty for always having us over and inviting the whole pinball community over at his house, hanging out there. It's always fun, and it's wonderful that he always includes us. So thanks, Ted. And also had a great time going to InDisc with you. So, of course, shout out to my wife and my kids for letting me do this crazy hobby and spending so much time with my friends playing pinball and on the podcast. But anyway, those are my shout outs.
    145:32
    Nice. All right. Well, I'm going to go ahead and throw out my usual shout out to the whole CCPL family. You guys are great. It's always super fun to play pinball with you. Looking forward to finishing out this season and starting the next. Big, big shout out to Mike G, to George To other Dan, to my bro Brian, for just being around And helping out with these pinball projects that we're Always working on And, you know, shout out to you guys To Spencer and to Mark The whole Reno crew, really Jason and all his buddies And you for dragging us up there For giving us the invite and me for dragging Spencer up there That's right, I give myself a shout out I'm cool That was a super good time And I really Really enjoyed it You know having a little pin venture Shout out to Henry for having us all over I guess I can go with the CCPL thing And another shout out to Brian We're here at his house tonight Kicking it, eating pizza, recording the podcast with you guys Petting the dogs And I'm about to go out and play my Indy 500 Oh how cool, I'm jealous Nice, makes me love your rooms shout out to Brian for not doing rims what a jerk shout out to the normal people give me work damn quit it with my dumb jokes it's pretty short list I guess that's it guys so let's wrap it up because we're at two and a half hours take us home Spencer play pinball keep America strong
    147:11
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