Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Episode 80 – They Call Me Bruce?

Head2Head Pinball·podcast_episode·1h 45m·analyzed·Feb 18, 2019
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.021

TL;DR

Extreme collector Bruce discusses his pinball acquisition habits and resale market analysis across manufacturers.

Summary

Head2Head Pinball hosts Martin and Bruce (guest) discuss Bruce's extreme acquisition habits—notably a 2,100-mile round trip to Minneapolis for a $100 arcade game—and dive into resale market dynamics for new and vintage pinball machines across manufacturers (Stern, Jersey Jack, American Pinball). They analyze LE sell-through rates, pricing trends, market softening, and the tension between collectability and actual gameplay quality.

Key Claims

  • Iron Maiden sold out immediately; Bruce's distributor could not obtain one despite trying.

    high confidence · Bruce and Martin discussing Stern LE availability and sell-through speed.

  • The Munsters expanded from 500 to 600 units but did not sell out immediately, unlike Iron Maiden.

    high confidence · Bruce comparing LE demand patterns across recent Stern releases.

  • Deadpool (LE) did not sell out immediately; units are still available.

    high confidence · Bruce noting softer LE demand for Deadpool compared to Iron Maiden.

  • People are now more likely to sell one game to buy another rather than extending collections due to limited fluid cash.

    high confidence · Bruce and Martin discussing US market cash flow and buyer behavior.

  • Jersey Jack's Hobbit Smaug Special Edition was heavily marketed with promises of rarity but no production numbers were disclosed; Bruce lost $2,000 on resale.

    high confidence · Bruce detailing his regret on Hobbit purchase and JJP's lack of transparency.

  • Jersey Jack Wizard of Oz has four variants currently in production/available.

    medium confidence · Martin and Bruce discussing WOZ editions and rumored Yellow Brick Road version.

  • Guardians of the Guardians of the Galaxy (Premium) is rarer than Pro or LE, suggesting poor Premium tier sales at launch.

    medium confidence · Bruce and Martin discussing rarity patterns and visibility of different GOTG variants.

  • Guardians of the Galaxy's code quality issues at launch severely damaged resale perception despite the machine later becoming enjoyable.

    high confidence · Bruce crediting poor early code as the primary reason for weak initial sales and resale.

Notable Quotes

  • “It was a $20 bottom cabinet and playfield for a Cheetah... I live in Rochester, New York. And I went to Minneapolis, Minnesota... 1,050 miles each way... 36 hours complete from leaving the bar to getting to my house. I slept for two hours between that.”

    Bruce @ ~5-10 min — Illustrates Bruce's extreme dedication to acquiring machines and sets the tone for discussion of market behavior and collector psychology.

  • “With the only LE that's ever done this, the different rules... do you think they should go to like maybe the LE should have like the Disney TRON: Legacy (LE) with an extra multiball or something like that?”

    Martin @ ~25 min — Proposes design differentiation strategy for LEs to justify premium pricing—signals growing interest in rules-based collector value.

  • “We can just make LEs till their LEs come out of our ass.”

    Bruce @ ~30 min — Blunt criticism of Jersey Jack's perceived over-reliance on LE variants and lack of transparent production strategy.

  • “They never told us how many they produced. Of course not. Right? Nope, they never did.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~32 min — Highlights transparency issue with JJP production runs and collector trust.

  • “He paid so much for the licensing, he's going to have so many extra parts... he's going to reintroduce it as something else with a different artwork.”

    Bruce @ ~40 min — Suggests JJP's strategy of re-releasing Pirates of the Caribbean in new variants to extend license ROI and manage inventory.

  • “The shots are so tight... Six out of ten times, you're going to hit a rebound rubber and possibly lose that ball or possibly drain. How many people are going to want to go play that game again?”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~55 min — Explains why casual accessibility directly impacts resale value—if the game doesn't appeal to most players, collector value suffers.

  • “Do you have to do it with, even if they sell like 20,000 or 21,000 of them, would you go to any The The Addams Family, do you say, boy, I have to reposition? Yes, you do. Not as much.”

Entities

BrucepersonMartinpersonRyanpersonRonpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyAmerican Pinballcompany

Signals

  • $

    market_signal: LE demand varies significantly by title; Iron Maiden sold out immediately while Deadpool and Munsters showed softer demand. Suggests market fatigue or title-specific appeal rather than uniform LE scarcity.

    high · Bruce: 'Iron Maiden sold out immediately' vs. 'Deadpool LEs did not sell out immediately either. I think there's still some available.'

  • $

    market_signal: Collectors are shifting from expansion to replacement purchasing; limited fluid cash forcing trade-ups rather than collection growth.

    high · Bruce: 'people are trying to save their money for the titles they really want... they have to sell something to buy something or trade.'

  • ?

    product_concern: American Pinball Houdini's tight shot geometry and high rebound potential create barrier to casual play, reducing mass-market appeal and driving poor resale.

    high · Bruce: 'Six out of ten times, you're going to hit a rebound rubber and possibly lose that ball... How many people are going to want to go play that game again?'

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball's lack of disclosed production numbers and aggressive LE variants creates collector uncertainty and poor resale outcomes.

    high · Bruce on Hobbit: 'They never told us how many they produced' and 'I lost two grand on My Hobbit.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Guardians of the Galaxy perception improved significantly post-code-update; initial poor code and Premium rarity suggest launch underperformance now being revised.

    high · Bruce: 'because the code in the beginning... That's exactly right. So I think that we're now in a better place when it comes to code.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.070

0:00
Music You're listening to the Head2Head Pinball Podcast. Find us on Facebook, email us at head2headpinball at gmail.com or go to our website at head2headpinball.com Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 80. My name's Martin and with me every week is Ryan C.
0:41
That's never going to get old. It's not actually Ryan C though, is it? No, mate. That's passable. Aussie accent. No, it's not. This is Bruce from the, I don't know, you slammed your podcast. I was going to say, are we retired, semi-retired, on hiatus?
1:03
I'm a vegetable right now because I'm just driving around buying games and doing stuff and keeping the bar running. But I think, you know, Ron doesn't want to play with us anymore. So Ron's avoiding you. Yeah, I think he is, man. We invited him on tonight. We invited him on and he gave me the excuse that he's working. Well, I also asked, true story, I also asked Ryan this morning if he wanted to come on and he said he's busy working. So I have a theory. Okay. Ron and Ryan are the same person. Oh, could be. You know? We've never seen them together in the same room. They've never been in the same room together. So, either way, whether they are the one person or the other, they both let us down. And you notice, Ron does a pretty good Australian accent. He does. So, maybe it is, Brian, you know? He could do. So, anyway. So, what have you been up to? Now, one thing I know about you, Bruce, is... Well, the first thing I think everybody knows about you is your mouth, right? Yeah. Big one now. And your lack of filter. We love that.
2:21
But also that you are known for going to ridiculous lengths to snap up a pinball machine. Tell me about some of the longest places you've had to drive to just to get an AIDS bargain or whatever it is that you get. Well, the longest was Arkansas. I went for a $20 bottom cabinet and play field for a Stern Cheetah. Yes. And I grabbed that about a year ago. But I just beat that this weekend.

[name withheld pending review] @ ~65 min — Acknowledges that even classic high-volume games require adjustment, but Houdini's design is unusually demanding.

  • “Have you ever played a Twilight Zone or an The The Addams Family that plays the same as another Twilight Zone or another The The Addams Family? No. Always different.”

    Bruce @ ~68 min — Highlights inherent variance in classic solid-states due to manufacturing tolerances—a reality check on expectations for modern precision.

  • “If a machine was that good, you wouldn't let it go.”

    Martin @ ~45 min — Core principle: long-term retention is driven by genuine enjoyment, not collectability—frames the resale market discussion around gameplay quality.

  • “Star Trek will never leave my collection.”

    Martin @ ~48 min — Personal commitment statement; establishes that certain machines transcend market cycles based on design excellence and player connection.

  • Iron Maidengame
    Munstersgame
    Deadpoolgame
    Hobbitgame
    The Wizard of Ozgame
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Dialed In!game
    Guardians of the Galaxygame
    Houdinigame
    Cyberball 2072game
    Beatlesgame
    The Addams Familygame
    Twilight Zonegame
    Star Trek (LE)game
    Silver Ball Saloonvenue
    Head to Head Pinball Podcastmedia
    Search Tempestproduct
  • ?

    product_strategy: Proposal to add exclusive rules/multiballs to LEs (Tron model) to justify premium pricing and collectability beyond artwork variations.

    medium · Martin: 'do you think they should go to like maybe the LE should have like the Tron LE with an extra multiball... I think that would bring the LE even into super elite status.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: JJP likely to re-release Pirates of the Caribbean with new artwork variants after March cutoff to extend licensing ROI and manage excess inventory.

    medium · Bruce: 'he's going to reintroduce it as something else with a different artwork' to maximize license value.

  • ?

    collector_signal: Machines retained long-term based on genuine gameplay enjoyment, not rarity or collectability; resale value secondary to personal joy factor.

    high · Martin: 'If a machine was that good, you wouldn't let it go... it's the quality of the machine that will keep it in the collection.'

  • $

    market_signal: Guardians of the Galaxy Premium tier rarest variant, indicating weak Premium-tier adoption at launch relative to Pro/LE.

    medium · Bruce: 'How many people do you actually know that say, I have a Premium Guardians out there?... I've actually seen two... But not many.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Stern's standardized Pro/Premium/LE model provides buyer confidence in resale; JJP's variant strategy creates uncertainty and discourages investment.

    high · Martin: 'people have now gotten conditioned to Stern's Pro Premium and LE model... With Jersey Jack, there's a lot of uncertainty.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Modern games increasingly require deliberate play style adjustment (rebound shots, tight geometry); differs from classic ergonomic accessibility of Addams Family era.

    high · Bruce on Deadpool: 'Deadpool is about rebound shots... you have to understand that its clunkiness and its rebounds, that's what it's designed.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Serious collectors justify extreme acquisition efforts (36-hour round trip) based on condition and price, not dealer convenience; ownership responsibility drives preference for direct acquisition.

    high · Bruce: 'I've done a couple shippings and it's been really a nightmare... I'd rather just grab it, have it in my hands, then it's my fault if something breaks.'

  • 3:00
    I know. I live in Rochester, New York. And I went to Minneapolis, Minnesota. The home of Prince. Yes. And the mileage is 1,050 miles.
    3:18
    And that's each way. So, okay, we obviously, you know, our measurement's in kilometers, right? Yeah, so 660 kilometers in, or 620 kilometers in a, in, no, sorry, the other way around. Yeah, so 620 miles equals 1,000 kilometers. Yep.
    3:38
    So you've done, I would say, I can't do that. 4,000, 3,400 kilometers. So that's, I don't know, I'm going to hazard a guess, that's over 14 hours each way? It was 36 hours complete from leaving the bar to getting to my house.
    3:57
    I slept for two hours between that. And I had a lot of Red Bulls. Okay, was that, did you say Bulls? Red Bulls. Yep. It's like an energy drink. Yep, yep, cool. I just want to make sure it was Bulls that you said. So, why? What on earth would possess you to do this? It was a, I was surfing Craigslist about two weeks ago. Sure. And I'm always looking for pinballs, but now lately I've been back into the arcade games because I need them for the bar. And I'm surfing through my search, it's a program called Search Tempest, and I type in a name of something and I'll search up to 2,000 miles. and it popped up and it was a upright Cyberball 2072 arcade game. Okay. $100.
    4:48
    Right, okay. I was like, okay, great. I'm like, let me email this guy and, you know, he came back like an hour later. He's like, hey, yeah, I got it. Okay, you know, you're willing to sell it? He's like, oh, yeah, yeah. I said, it works. Yeah, it works perfect. Sent me some pictures. We went back and forth. I'm like, okay, I'm in Rochester. Now, he's like, oh, Rochester, Minnesota? Yeah, it's only about an hour and a half, maybe two hours away from me. I'm like, no, no, no, no, Rochester, New York. He's like, what? I'm like, yeah, I'm going to come out and get this thing. He's like, well, when do you want to do it? I'm like, well, how about next weekend? And that was this weekend just passed. And he's like, okay. So I texted him Thursday like, hey, I'm still going. The weather looks great. You know, not a problem. He's like, okay, I'll see you Saturday. You know, I said Saturday morning. I planned on 9 o'clock at being at his house, and I pulled into his house at 8.15 in the morning. Right. I stopped for an hour to sleep in between that and got there, grabbed the game. It worked perfect. It's beautiful. It's a home use only. He goes, I've had this game for almost, there's only on the coin counter inside the box, inside the machine, the coin counter only had 47 coins go through this machine. How? So just had it on free play the whole time. Yeah, fair enough. And then I grabbed it and threw it in the back of my car and I left and I slept about an hour last night and I got home at 3 o'clock in the morning.
    6:09
    And now I'm at the bar. Okay, so I know this title mainly because, you know, when you sort of, you know, I'm confessing to this, but when you download a main ROM pack, Cyberball is always one of those ones that, you know, is part of that. So it must have been popular. I don't know, we'll get back to pinball in a second, but it is effectively just a football game that looks like there's robots instead of humans. Oh yeah, definitely. They actually have two versions. They have a two-player version and then a four-player version. Right, okay. I'm looking at the cabinet for the two-player and it's kind of in like a V, sort of where they... No, that's the four-player. That's the V. I actually had a four-player about three years ago, and that was great, but it's humongous. It barely fits my trailer. I got the two-player one. Yep, okay, there you go. And the picture of it is actually on the Silver Ball Saloon page right now because I just put it in the bar. Awesome. So you've done that, so you're obviously freaking nuts for doing that. My question is, is it because the person that was selling it wouldn't ship it or you didn't want to have it shipped? I've done a couple shippings and it's been really a nightmare.
    7:30
    Some things get damaged. I've shipped and I've sold games and shipped them and I'd rather just grab it, have it in my hands, then it's my fault if something breaks or it's my fault if... Yeah, very nice. Okay. You're taking responsibility. Okay, so then a really interesting topic. I've kind of alluded to it the last couple of weeks and I really want to get your thoughts on this because you are really connected to the buy-sell market, right? Try to be. Well, when you say try to be, it's constantly what you are doing.
    8:04
    But also, you know, you've bought new machines. You've also been buying and selling old machines like some of those obviously shitty Stern electronic games. They're terrible games. Oh my God. Bally's much better. Oh my God. We're not going to open up that wound. My question to you is, how do you feel the resale market is going for new in box and for the older machines? I then want to compare notes of what is happening in Australia, but you tell me what you think the US market is like at the moment.
    8:45
    Well, let's group it into four things. Doing box sales for current games, I see very strong, very healthy.
    8:55
    So anything that Stern puts out, it's selling very fast, especially Kelly's and the premiums, that kind of stuff. So, resale, me and Ron have brought this up a couple times, but it seems like now there's not a lot of fluid cash in people's hands, which I mean is like if I had $10,000 to say, let me go spend this right now. They have to sell something to buy something or trade.
    9:22
    That's what I've noticed more with the new pinball market. It seems like people are trying to save their money for the titles they really want, like a Stargazer, like Quicksilver, and that kind of stuff.
    9:40
    Honestly, there's one on eBay for $9,500 of Quicksilver. Oh, yeah. So, if they can get that, more power to them, you know? But yeah, obviously New Inbox are a, you know, we're saying that they're still strong and obviously Stern doesn't give their unit manufactured or sold so we really don't know.
    10:08
    People are tracking it. You'd be surprised. Yeah, I know people have got ways of being able to track it, but I mean one of the measures that we sort of look at is, I guess, how quickly does the LE sell out, right? Because that you know how many units are being made and how long it takes. Now, I'll give you an indication. Iron Maiden, for example. So, you know, I got an Iron Maiden LE and I put my name down, I can't remember it now, but it would have been like two months before. Yep. And I can then determine whether I got in. You put your name down for Ion Maiden Ellie before I did in the US and you didn't get one. Nope. And it sold out immediately. Oh yeah, it was. Right? My distributor could not even get me one. He was actually cut back. Right. So then, you know, cut to Munsters. Munsters, even though it went from 500 to 600, it didn't sell out. No, no. Like, it has now. Yeah, well, I think my distributor has one or two still, though. Right, okay, and that's kind of what I've heard at the moment. But, I mean, it's slightly hard to do apples with apples because it's 500 units versus 600 units, but let's just say it's approximately 500 units. So you would say therefore that Munsters, if you can only use the LE as a gauge, you could say it's a little bit softer. But then probably the other caveat with that is that people might be going for the premium because the premium's got the black and white art. So it's hard to know like for like.
    11:54
    But Deadpool, Deadpool LEs did not sell out immediately either. I think there's still some available.
    12:05
    It all depends on title. It really does. It does. And what you're getting for your dollar. You know what? You're absolutely right. And I think, again, it depends on how special the LE is, right? And that can either make it an indicator of total units sold being premiums and pros, Or in some regards it can be just it's only the LE that's indicated. I'll try and explain. So with Iron Maiden, for example, was the LE that much more special than the Premium?
    12:49
    For me, I would rather have looking back at the whole experience and looking at the artwork still. My buddy has an LE. I like the LE artwork, but I really fell in love with the premium artwork. Don't forget, when it first came out, we didn't see the premium. That's correct. We didn't. We had two weeks in between.
    13:10
    So the Pro, I love. I love the side art on the Pro. I love the artwork for the Pro. The LE, I was like, yeah, it's good, but, you know, and then I didn't get my order, and I was kind of like, oh, well, guess what? It's not a bad thing, you know. And then I bought the Pro, you know, I got the Pro in the bar, and then, oh, wow, look at the Premium, and that looks kick-ass because it's PowerSlave, and PowerSlave freaking rocks, and oh, my God. But then I hear all the problems with a lot of these machines, and, you know, it just kills me. So when I saw the Premium, I was like, oh, wow, you know, this is freaking awesome, but I've already spent my money, And I don't have as much money to do what I need to do. And it looks great. But I do think when you're talking LEs, if it doesn't have everything I want it to have or it doesn't have a real back glass and they put Translites in there, you know, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm so used to the LE experience for me being a Star Trek LE. Yes. Or even a Black Spider-Man, Ellie, you know, my Black Spider-Man, because that was, you got everything including the kitchen sink for looking back on it a really good deal now. Yeah, right. And obviously, yeah, Star Trek. For me, in Australian dollars, my Star Trek was $10,500 Australian. Munsters is $13,800. So that's just over that time. And sure, it's four or five years. But again it comes back to what makes you feel, I know Ryan would be, I can hear Ryan in my ear going feelings, but what makes you feel that the L.E. is special. And the reason why I say this about Iron Maiden, because Iron Maiden is such a beloved theme, that theme alone adds a bit to the L.E. being like the special experience. I've got this theme that I love and I've got the best one. It's great. But then when you go to Deadpool, Deadpool is, I would say it's an emerging theme. I don't know whether Deadpool, the second movie, did it any justice, but I don't think it's got that same sort of following that a lot of other things have. Plus what you get in the LE really, and the premium really, is the disco ball and the ramp that returns. And that ramp that returns is very cool. I actually do like that, creating an orbit shot. And it also negates one of the weirdest things, which is that right back into the plunger lane. So again, I think with the LE for Deadpool, that was probably a bit cool because it wasn't really all that different to the premium and the premium wasn't all that different to the pro.
    16:14
    So then, let's look at Munsters. So obviously the premium and the LE are very different to the pro because they've got that playfield underneath, which either people are going to like or not. And that's kind of what I get. I don't think that people are really in the middle of it. They're either like, I don't like a play food underneath, or I do like a play food underneath, and that is a bit of a filter. But again, I would say that the Munsters has sold quicker than Deadpool, not as quick as Iron Maiden. No, I totally agree. I totally agree there. Yeah, so I guess what we've got to look at is there's all these different variables in here, but is it the machine itself or is it the market at the moment that's causing a bit of a softening with purchases? I think, as I said, it's trying to sell games to buy games now. Yeah. And also, I'm going to throw another curveball at you. With the only Ellie that's ever done this, the different rules, do you think they should go to like maybe the Ellie should have like the Tron Ellie with an extra multiball or something like that? Like that kind of multiball? Yes. Yeah. Do you think that would bring, I think that would bring the Ellie even into super elite status.
    17:35
    Yes. Yeah, I, I, yeah, sure. Well, because, you know, look at the 80 special people who have Batman Super Ellie, and if they still have the original machine and it's there, the ownership of it, you know, and they get to hear their name call out. Yeah, now that's pretty special, right? Exactly. And that could, in certain people's minds, justify the cost. Now, for me, me buying one, I guarantee there's no Bruce on there, so I'll be sitting there hearing, hi Bill, or hi George, and be done. So, I don't know. I like the idea of having an extra multiball or different rules. Yeah, and again I do like that with Tron having Daft Punk Multiball, not that I've ever got it. Bit of a side note, if they ever do a Vault Edition Tron, right, would they only do a Vault Edition Pro or would they introduce a Premium? I think they'd have to do a Pro. Yeah, because that would be really quite controversial if they do a premium that has got Dark Punk multiball that's not the limited edition. And people would look at that and say, well, hang on, that's competing against the LE, which is meant to be collectible. Yeah, and plus, Gary's always stated that there's only so many LEs, and that was originally stated as a LE-only thing. Yeah, yeah. So that would be going against the whole theory of LE. Okay, well then that's, let's talk ACDC because that's where ACDC has that problem because you had your, what was it, the Back in Black? Yep, and Let There Be Rock, and Let There Be Rock. Right. Then you had the Lucy Premium. Mm-hmm. And that, in a way, kind of became a bit of an LE as well. It did in certain ways, but in ways it didn't because it wasn't a numbered, limited amount of run. No, I understand. But it was a different back glass, different artwork, and it was the first time they ever did that kind of thing for a premium. Yeah. Which was like, oh, really? Well, was it? Yeah, I think that was the first one they ever did different artwork, maybe. Post the premium? No, X-Men. Right, okay. No, no, no, no. But that thing was on the LE and Pro, wasn't it? But they had two LEs. Yeah, right. I think Transformers also had a couple of different LEs, didn't they? Yes, they did. They had the Decepticon, they had the Autobot, and then they had the Combo. Yeah. They had three. That's right. Well, there you go. Yeah, so I'm just curious to know whether they would, if they could, introduce... Yeah, I think that'd be a really... Anyway, we're speculating. Okay, so that's new in box stern we talk about. So I guess we're saying it's rather than people now extending their collection, they're keeping their collection and just replacing their collection. Yeah, they're trying to get the pieces that they want. Correct. But would you say it's still fair that an LE will still retain its price six months to 12 months later? Depending on the game. Yeah, but thereabouts. You don't really lose a lot on them at the moment.
    21:09
    Some do. Yeah. Look at that, Chippie. No, that's right. Obviously, hopefully they'll never make that mistake again.
    21:18
    Yeah, I know. So then let's talk new inbox for other manufacturers. So the next one, obviously, is Jersey Jack.
    21:30
    We can just make LEs till their LEs come out of our ass. Oh, sorry, say that out loud? You did, as I said, you're known for your mouth and the lack of filter, but I would agree with you.
    21:47
    Don't buy anything until it's the last thing. That's what I'm saying about Jack. That's probably it, because again, with my Hobbit, I mentioned this a couple of ways, probably with Jeff last week, I bought the Smaug Special Edition gold.
    22:06
    Which they pushed. They pushed on us so bad. Look, you're going to get discs. You're going to get different artwork for Smaug. This is going to be the rarest one of all. But they never told us how many they produced. It didn't have a... Of course not. Right? Nope, they never did.
    22:22
    Say that again? They never did and then let's do right after all those are sold or as many as we can make, let's make a Black Arrow. Right, so I lost two grand on My Hobbit. Yeah, you're lucky. I saw a Wizard of Oz the other day go for just over $9,000, so that's some money that's lost on it as well. But not much, honestly. Probably Wizard of Oz. There's so many variations there are of Wizard of Oz, because right now you have three. Actually, you have four. Yeah, that's right. There's four versions of Wizard of Oz right now, as we speak. Okay, and there is that rumour that the Yellow Brick Road Special Edition is coming out. Yep.
    23:12
    With Elton John in it. It's not true. We start it and you're going to have Elton John go, goodbye Yellow Brick Road.
    23:26
    Wouldn't that be funny though? I know. So then let's go to Dialed In. Because Dialed In pretty much had a standard edition which I don't think many people bought. If they sold 100 of them, I might be very surprised. Yeah, and I think Jack was pretty much set on record that hardly anyone bought the standard because there was really no reason for what you weren't getting and the price differential. It really wasn't worth going for the standard. But you've got, what is it, was there a limited edition and then there's a collector's edition? Yes, yes.
    24:01
    I don't see many collector editions for sale because I don't think they sold many of them. Yeah, I have seen some collectors, but you just don't see them, they don't really put them on location where we are. So it's hard to know, and Pires of the Caribbean was similar where you've got an L.A. and you've got a collector's edition.
    24:22
    Here's the funny thing, I love this comment where they're saying, and this is where I was laughing at, people are saying, oh, well, you know, they're going to stop running Pirates end of March, or March. March has been done. And now people are all panicking. Do you really think they're going to say, I paid so much for this license, I'm going to not kind of keep milking this thing like we have seen Jack do in the past.
    24:52
    But people are panicking like they're not going to get this great game and everything like that and we're going to have to buy it now. If we don't buy it now, we're never going to see it. No, don't panic people. He's paid so much for the licensing, he's going to have so many extra parts, you know what's going to happen two or three months from now? If this next game doesn't sell or if he has a lull in his line, he's going to reintroduce it as something else with a different artwork. And I honestly don't begrudge any of these people for trying to make a buck, right? That's what you've got to do. I guess for us... But don't try to make people deceit, you know, like deceiving people a little bit. Whip them into a frenzy. That's a bad thing I have. That's what I don't... No, sure, but that's not... I'm... Well, think about it. I think using the word deceit is probably a bit... It is, no, because guess what? If somebody said to you, hey, you know, Marty, BMW, we're going to make a 325i, the non-ditch version, We're going to sell it to you. It's the last one ever made. Oh, I better get this. I better get this right now. Oh, but we didn't tell you that next year we're going to make the same car. But it's just, you know. Yeah.
    26:09
    No, I know, but that's up to me to then do my research on that. But most people don't. No, no, I understand that. They're going by what they're saying. No I understand that And that what everyone doing But also if that person doesn do their research and they get their machine they should just be happy with what they get The only problem that you have is when it comes to resale time and that is determined by the enjoyment of the machine itself
    26:40
    You know people. You know these people. They're going by collectability. No, I understand, but if a machine was that good, you wouldn't let it go.
    26:52
    Yeah, true. But I've sold games. I don't guess what. You know, most people, then you're going into the same thing you had the problem with you and Ryan. Do you love a game where you're actually considering it like your friend, or is it just an animatic object that's making money for you? No one said it's like a friend. This didn't happen, but I know what you mean. My buddy, my buddy. Wherever I go, Pinnball goes, my buddy. Have you sold a machine that you've absolutely regretted and you've missed it that you wanted to have it back? Yes, four times. Right. What was that? Four. One was Taxi and it's back. Okay. The same machine. Sure. Second, Star Trek Next Generation. Okay. I missed mine. Still miss it to this day. I actually had a perfect one where... Why do you miss it? No. No lost ball. It just worked perfect. It was a perfect example. Okay. I missed that. Sure. The third one I missed...
    27:51
    Let's think. What's the third one? I do miss World Cup Soccer a little bit. Okay. But I'm not sensing that you are covering it so much that you want it desperately back. No, no, no. And I do miss my Black Spider-Man. Sure. But I can play any Spider-Man and it makes my... Right. It was just an LE, it was 500 and that kind of stuff. Okay, so you're kind of helping me out with what I'm trying to say about, you know, these machines is, if they are that good, it's the quality of the machine that will keep it in the collection. And dare I bring up my Iron Maiden again, it went because it just didn't push all my buttons. Oh my. To be able to keep it. And I'm not even sure whether Monsters will, but Star Trek will never leave. Star Trek will never leave my collection. Same, because there's just something about it that, you know, is just a joy no matter how many times you play it. Now here's the funny thing, now look at my former co-host that I don't talk to anymore because he just blows me off. Mm-hmm. Oh, my. He sold his Star Trek LE and kept Black Spider-Man. Right. He's mad. Why?
    29:13
    Why? Because he's nuts. There's no reason to that. But for him, Black Spider-Man... That's right. ...touches all the buttons. So, again, it's just different to people. So, just coming back to the whole Jersey Jack versus Stern thing, I think the difference here is people have now... Gotten conditioned to Stern's Pro Premium and LE model that in a way they can predict the resale or the likelihood that you're going to get a good resale on a Pro Premium and LE. There's a lot more units, a lot more models coming out each year and there is now some sort of certainty. With Jersey Jack, there's a lot of uncertainty. You don't know really the volumes that have been produced. You don't know the split between really Collector LA or whatever it is. So you don't know what you're going to get back. Also, the last couple of titles like Wizard of Oz and Hobbit, Hobbit in particular, had poor resale. I believe Dialed In has as well. So it's hard to know what you're going to do. So you've got to make sure that the game is enjoyable and draws people in because it's not going to be the theme that's necessarily or the collectability that's going to command that kind of connection. Now I have a question for you. Sure.
    30:45
    Guardians of the Galaxy. Yes. Which is the rarest one? Yep. Probably the Pro. No, I'm thinking honestly it's the Premium. Okay. Because think about it, all these Odd Sport Pros. Yes. You have your Limited LE. How many people do you actually know that say, I have a Premium Guardians out there? Hmm. I've actually seen two. Yeah, I saw one just on the weekend here in Canberra. I'm in Canberra at the moment. And that was a Premium. But not many. No. Why is that? Do you think that's an indication of units sold, that it didn't sell all that well? Yep, I think so. Okay. I really do think on that one. And that's a real shame because I think that that machine now has become a really, really enjoyable machine. And that's what kills it, is the code in the beginning. Yes, that's right. That's exactly right. So I think that we're now in a better place when it comes to code because it's going to take some time for Stern to increase its number of coders for them to really become, I guess, more senior to be able to bash out new games.
    32:08
    And I think, you know, obviously apparently there was a licensing issue with Guardians of the Galaxy so that probably would have delayed some of the code as well. But I think now you're getting better code on release. In part, let's take Batman out, right? But that's a real problem with Guardians because the layout itself, whilst it was fairly generic, has now become a very fun machine to flip.
    32:40
    And I think that really did stop units being sold. I agree. Okay, well so then let's talk new in box for the likes of, let's say, American Pinball. So let's say, you know, Houdini, which is the machine that got out. I've seen that there is somebody selling a Houdini for, and it's new in box, for $1,000 less than what they paid.
    33:07
    And I don't think they'll even get that. Why do you think that is? Because the game is terrible. I don't agree with that. I do. The shots are so tight. It's not a punch. You have to be, let's just say this, the casual player or the people say if you're going to a barcade or most players out there, not at your level, are going to try to hit a shot.
    33:36
    Six out of ten times, you're going to hit a rebound rubber and possibly lose that ball or possibly drain.
    33:42
    How many people are going to want to go play that game again? Sure. Okay. So, if it's not enjoyable to most people, and even people who have bought it, your resale value is going to go down. Well, the people that I know, and I know four people that have, I mean, that's, I know that's not a lot of people, but that's, we don't actually have that many Pinball machines in Australia, but... No, it's just, you know, it's a criminal, you know. How is Ryan doing in jail? Is he okay, you know? Is he getting his consugal business from you? He is. And isn't it quite ironic that my voiceover in Houdini is the jailer? Exactly.
    34:32
    My muse at the time was Ryan being in jail. It's like I'm speaking to him. So going back to that, so the people that I know that have got Houdini are saying that you have to learn how to play that game. You have to adjust your play style, then once you do, you will hit those shots. Okay, now how many other games do you actually have to say that to yourself about?
    35:01
    Beatles. You do, you have to adjust, right? You do adjust a little bit. Yeah, do you know what? I wish I could remember it now. I'm drawing a blank, but I actually said that to somebody only yesterday about a similar game where you have to adjust yourself. And I think, actually, Deadpool is probably one of those as well because Deadpool isn't about direct shots. Deadpool is about rebound shots. So if you really want to blow that up, you have to understand that its clunkiness and its rebounds, that's what it's designed as a game as opposed to direct nailing each of the shots. So you have to relearn your play style to do that. Okay, so 95% of the game is out in the world. Yeah, no, I get that. Do you have to do it with, even if they sell like 20,000 or 21,000 of them, would you go to any Addams Family, do you say, boy, I have to reposition, you know, because the flippers are a little off. Yes, you do. Not as much. No, no. Not as much as the clunginess of the game. It was actually, do you know what? It was funny. It was, because when I was streaming the Australian Championship Series on the weekend, there were two examples that we were saying exactly that. One is Adam's Family, the other is Twilight Zone, right? Because have you ever played a Twilight Zone or an Adam's Family that plays the same as another Twilight Zone or another Adam's Family? Oh yeah, totally. It's always different. No. Always different. No. Twilight Zone next to each other. If the flippers are not exactly the same, they will just play very differently. And that was one of the challenges that we had on, particularly on the Twilight Zone, is the flippers were flopped a little bit. Yeah, I saw that. But honestly, you have to adjust. Yes, you have to adjust. But wait a second. That's in a tournament situation where the guy might have actually made him a little flop down to make it harder. So it wasn't a long playing game. But most Houdinis out of the box play like ass. No, well... Yes! No, well they do... Oh my god, they do. No, what I'm saying is, I get it, they just play differently. And the first time I ever experienced this, and I know that I'm digging myself into this now when I say this. You ready? I'm ready for it because I know it's going to come. Full throttle.
    37:18
    I like it. Right, now, okay, good. Does that play, does that shoot the same as all the other machines that you've played? It doesn't. The layout... It doesn't. The layout is different, but it weighs like I like the layout for two reasons. I like shots, I like the flow. The flow in a game is incredible. Yeah. I like the inlanes that are like the old dalleys. Yes, same. Same here. So, to me, it was a nice, refreshing thing. Most of the shots you can hit on the fly. You cannot do that on Houdini. No, no, no, no. Most people would disagree with you on full throttle. But I agree with you on full throttle because I like the flow on that game. But where you are shooting the ball is not where you're used to. You have to adjust. Now, I would say, therefore, you have adjusted to it and you've gone, yep, I get it, but haven't been able to adjust to Houdini. No. So therefore you hate it. I have people around here who have it, and every time I played it, I liked it, I liked the sounds, I liked the humour, I hated the explanation of rules before I get to play my ball. Yeah, sure. But the shots suck. Okay, but that's what I'm saying is a lot of people say the shots in full throttle suck. No. Okay, all I'm saying is this. Well, the first time I played full throttle, I knew it was a good shooting game. It was a better shooting game than Houdini. And I'm saying that's your personal preference. What I'm trying to say here is, as soon as you go outside of, let's call it the cookie cutter placement of ramps and orbits that's stern and perfected, then you're then going into territory where people are either going to get it or they don't, right? Okay, then I have an argument against you. Sure. I mean. What about it? Totally different placement of shots. Totally different placement of flippers, totally different placement of how you have to get that ball to that ramp. Sure. Three years into development. But guess what? Wait a sec. Is it enjoyable?
    39:30
    It's not in our collection anymore. I know, but the shots, are they enjoyable? No. I tell you what's not is the left and right ramps. I actually like them. But this is it. As soon as you move away from what is your standard placement of ramps, you run the risk of alienating people because they don't quite get it. If you can just place everything generically where it needs to be and people know that's where a left orbit is, that's where a right orbit is, there's my left ramp, there's my right ramp, there's my center bash toy. John Borg, right? Who's the mother? Well, you're exactly describing a Borg. You're describing a Borg. I am. And that's why when you pick up a ball, you go, okay. And when I played Munsters for the first time, it felt great. Slightly different some of the shots, but I knew where to hit them. The danger of that is people go, oh, it's just like ACDC or it's just like Metallica. That's the risk that you play, you have. But at least you're getting a layout that people know how to shoot and you're not dividing and having polarizing opinions on it. Well, there's two things I'm going to argue with. First, Guardians of the Galaxy is the worst game that does not feel like, it is the game that does not feel like board game. Sure. It doesn't. But second is, each one of these games you're describing has an acceptable amount of gap that a ball can fit through. Yeah, okay. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, Houdini has got one too many shots. Totally agree. If they actually got rid of one of the shots, opened up everything else, that game I would probably even possibly own. Sure. Because I loved it. I loved the Daft Punk. Not that, but I loved the... Like the Steampunk thing, yeah. Steampunk. I loved the sound. Actually, I liked the sounds of the game. I wish you could actually skip. If you were able to squeeze both flippers to get past the rules descriptions... You can now. It would be a good game. I know. But at the time, I couldn't. Yeah, no, I understand. So, anyway, go on. There's been too many shots. So, okay, let's move on from that. Because I was then going to go to, you know, others like Spookies. Are Spookies getting a resale value that they should have? No, they're not. Not at all. So. I have vendors up here. I have people who are trying to sell these Spookies. Because even Spooky's best game for sales and for awards is not getting the resale. Not keeping the resale. This is TNA. This is. I have people who have owned it and they can't sell them for what they think they should be able to sell them for. Yeah. So, look, okay, it's interesting. So then let's move to the second-hand market. How's the second-hand market? Let's talk about pricing first. I mean, obviously, you and Ron are responsible for inflating the prices of Stern electronic machines. Thank you. Oh, yeah, thank you. Everyone's predicting that Zachariah's going to be next for some reason because... No, I think it's going to... Stern's going to go down soon. Stern electronics? Yes. Okay. Because we've been out of the loop so much now, bragging about them all the times now, that people are going to buy them. They're going to go, oh, nobody's talking these up anymore. I might lose some money soon. I better sell. I better sell now. People are going to get them and play them and go, hmm, they're actually not as enjoyable as people said.
    43:09
    Poor Ryan C, he's going to be stuck with 20 games. I know. I think, what is he up to? I think he's got five, maybe six electronic games now. Yeah, six now, I think. Yeah.
    43:19
    And he's got some doubles. I know. He does too. So, can I ask a quick question? This is for a friend of mine, Andrew, who was considering this. If you were away from home for a considerable amount of time, but you wanted to have one pinball machine in your collection, and someone said, I can put a Stern Stingray in your home, would you do it?
    43:45
    Any other options? Nope. Stingray? Can it be like a Stern Pinball? No, it's a Stingray. Same rules, just a bad, worse layout. I know, a Stingray. I was trying to say, I was trying to say, just stick with Pimball Arcade. You'd be better off with that than a Stingray. Anyway. I'd rather just leave, not have anything in my house and go find Pimball somewhere else. Yeah. Not a Stingray. So then, besides what we're talking about with CERN Electronics and obviously, but Solid States And we'll talk about the DMZ era and even also Afro-Numeric if you want. Are you finding the prices in the second-hand market have cooled somewhat or are they continuing to go up? No, continuing to go up. Really? Yes, oh yes, really. It is actually getting stupid ridiculous. Oh, okay. When you talk about A Shadow, which was a B-title game for most of its life. Mainly for the theme, right? Selling now for $3,500 US? No, sorry. That game is not worth $3,500. It's a great game. It is a great game, but it's the theme that lets it down, right? I don't mind the theme. No, I understand. I like the theme of corners of the corny. No, the problem is it was a $1,100 and $1,200 game when other games were $3,000 to $4,000. So. Now the problem is people can't afford the higher price games or they have so much money tied in the higher price games, they're going for the lower price games now. They're actually doing what me and Ron have done for years, buy the lower price games, buy the World Cup Soccer, the Dirty Harry. Think about it. Dirty Harry, No Fear, World Cup Soccer, all these B title games, the Shadow, are now going for ridiculous amounts of money. Where the A title games are starting to cool a little bit. Yeah, okay. I think we're probably seeing now a tolerance for what the maximum people are going to pay. Because I've also seen, like, you know, in Australia, a couple of years ago, if you had a, let's say a collector condition, I want to say, let's say an Addams Family, like a collector condition, that would be $14,000 in Australia. These days, that's now probably $11,000. Yeah. So why? Why have those high-end ones come down?
    46:17
    People don't want to... Well, there's a couple of reasons. First, you can't sell a lot of these games because other people are not buying them. Right, but that's what I'm trying to work out. Why is it not commanding the price? It's because people don't want those games anymore? They've moved on?
    46:32
    They realize that these games are not... They're not an investment? Investment? No, not an investment. They're not like newer games are cheaper and you have better rules and you have, most of the time, better shots. Sure. And sometimes people get these older games because of nostalgia. I remember when I was in the pinball, you know, I was playing pinball back in the 90s and I played this game all the time and I bought this game and I'm like, oh. Do you think enough people have done that? All the people that have got nostalgic, they've done it? No. No, there's still more coming in and out. Well then why are Adam's Families and Twilight Zones not commanding? And even games like, you know, Scared Stiff was just ridiculous prices, right? It's not getting ridiculous prices anymore. So those, you know, AAA titles from the Valley Williams DMD era, they've really cooled. Because everyone's afraid that it was A titles being remade. Well, that's probably also true, that there is some uncertainty there. You don't know if Cactus Canyon is going to be remade. People are talking about it, so now you look what Cactus Canyon prices went.
    47:43
    Monster Bass two years ago, you can get a Monster Bass for, you were selling them, I sold mine for 10 grand. Yeah, okay. Some were selling for 11 and 12 grand.
    47:53
    Now you can pick one up cheaper than when you actually, honestly, there's some Monster Bashes in the States that are selling less.
    48:02
    Then the premium model. Because, you know, first people are going, well, look at all the pretty lights and the multicolored GLIs. You know, some people don't care about originality. They just want to have the prettiest or newest thing going on. Or just saying, hey, I want a game that's brand new in box and I don't have to worry about it for two years. And it's going to play like a brand new game and I'm going to be happy with this. But everyone's afraid, I think, with the A titles for Williams, what could be remade? Yeah, I guess because they have been hit.
    48:38
    It's time. So then, okay, so then let's go back to the solid states because, well, or even, you know, you talked about the B titles. World Cup soccer was kind of a B-ish title. Oh, it's totally B. It's a great game. I really like this game. I picked up three of them for $1,200. Three! Right, okay. I would have a World Cup soccer in my collection. I did have three. So... But now it's going for $2,800, $2,900. Yeah, right. Yeah, because people have been pushed out. Those machines that are still high-end, even though they were $14,000, they're now $11,000, $11,000 is still more expensive than a new Inbox Stern, right? Or, look at it this way, people don't have as much room as certain people. Like, say yourself, you have a place for four games in your place.
    49:33
    Would you want four A$12,000 titles? In your situation, you probably would. No, not necessarily. Wait, if you have, say you had space for 30 games, you might just buy two or three or four AA titles that are really expensive. Yeah. And then I'm going to use the rest of that money, instead of being all tied into A titles, and get some Bs, and get some early solid states, and get the taxis and the Alphan and Ameris, that kind of stuff. Yeah, absolutely, that's what I do. And guess what? That's where the dilution, you know, that's why the B title games and all the other games are going up in value, because people are now realizing that, hey, there's a lot more things out there than William from 1990s. Well, I think also people are sort of looking at, for those people that are really wanting to play the machines, not just collect and try and see the value go up, but people will look at it and say, do you know what? If I have a shadow for half the price of an Addams Family, I'm probably going to get equal enjoyment. You know what I mean? Totally agree. Totally. I enjoy a shadow more than that. Well, everybody does. So then, going back to the solid state, so let's talk about Beatles and... Sea Witch. Sea Witch, thank you. So, Beatles has come out, it is the Sea Witch layout. It doesn't, it feels somewhat, like I was playing it again over the weekend, it feels somewhat reminiscent of the play field of Sea Witch, but it doesn't feel the same. No, not at all. I honestly don't even feel it's the same. Yeah, okay. It's the look. So what if they continue to do new things like a new band theme, but let's say it's got a Quicksilver layout. What happens to the value of Quicksilver? It stays the same. Yeah. I wonder whether people then think, well, actually, because they don't play the same at all, Whether they both have collectability because people want the true original Quicksilver experience. Okay, let's think about this now. How many Sea Witches have you seen up for sale in the past four months? In Australia, I've seen two Sea Witches up for sale in the last maybe three years. Okay, so there's not been a big expansion of people saying, boy, I don't need a Sea Witch or I don't care about a Sea Witch anymore Or because I have Beatles. Right.
    52:07
    It's still its own entity. That's what I'm saying. That's what I think because they're so different that they remain their own identity and it doesn't necessarily get impacted by sales. Actually, I think it's actually increased the sales. Yeah, possibly because people think, well, I can almost get, I can get the original C-Witch experience. I don't get the Beatles experience, but it's still less than half the price. And so let me get my C-Witch now before Bruce keeps on raising these prices up. Yeah, that's exactly right. So anyway, I think we're done on the whole buy-sell market.
    52:43
    It's obviously something to watch. You didn talk about that You didn talk about your market Do you feel like it going down in Australia Yeah I think we are aligned I think what you said is very similar to what happening here The challenge that we always got is that we have a very large population of people that have enjoyed pinball because it was just part of our culture You know, we've always got great sunny weather. Every milk bar, I'm assuming that's what you guys call them, like a corner shop, had pinball machines in it. So it was always part of our culture. So we've still got a large population. We don't have that many machines here. So that pushes up the price. So even if you looked at a like-for-like, so you use a $3,500 for what? Shadow. Right, so that's probably $5,000 here. Mm-hmm. They would probably go for $6,000. So I would say you're adding a 10% to 20% markup on top of that because of the fact it's classic supply and demand. We don't have that many machines here. Now, I have a question for you now. I don't hear much from, you know, I once in a while dabble into the Australian, you know, forums and that kind of stuff. And I don't see many people going, hey, I found this horde of pinball machines and this guy's playing. You never see that, honestly, in Australia.
    54:14
    No, you don't. You see usually one or two, you know, like you're seeing like, what do you have as your Craigslist? What do you call it? Gumball. Or Gumball. Gumball, yeah. Yeah, so you see once in a while a guy will sell a game that's never been seen or very rare and that kind of stuff also. But you don't see many old-time people or old, you know, finding these five, six, seven, even, you know, two or three game hordes. That's right. No, they don't happen.
    54:43
    And, you know, or an operator, you know, you don't have many operators down there that have been, you know, I still know five or six operators. I go into their building and they have 40 or 50 heads on shelves up on the walls with cabinets and populated. Yep. And I don't think I see that at all, or hear about that at all. No. So, yeah, it's just very, you know, I don't see that. And I know in the U.S. there's still a ton of Horde games. So. So we have that benefit compared to you guys. Yeah, well, and, you know, I guess every once in a while we will hear, and I would say once a year, if you look on Pinside or whatever, a barn find, right? It would happen once a year. Oh, yeah. We never have those. They've got just very odd. And I'm just waiting for that date when someone rings up and says, Hey, you know, great uncle blah, blah, blah, that you haven't seen since you were three years old? I'm like, yeah. And I said, oh, looks sad. I think they passed away. But someone said that apparently they had a basement full of all pinball machines. And you're into pinball, aren't you? Yes. Would you like to come over with a trailer and pick up all of these? Because we don't know what they're worth and we would rather they just go to a family member. Like I would love that situation. Poor uncle, great uncle, whatever your name is.
    56:12
    See you sucker. You just don't hear those situations where those kinds of collections are sitting there. And I just think that's because we never had that many machines because we are that much of a smaller country when it comes to population. Now I have a question for you. I don't know this either and I'm going to ask you and maybe you don't even know. Is there that big of a market for video games down there?
    56:35
    I don't really know because I'm not connected to that. There obviously is. You've got the purists that need to have the original arcade in collector quality, and then there's people that don't care, put any old thing, or there's people that have main machines as well.
    56:57
    I'm just not connected to it. It's all pinball. Okay, I'm just wondering if anybody wants to comment to these guys, bring that up, because I would like to see if there is that kind of thing for video games. I would imagine there would be, yeah. Yeah. I mean, so the forum that we go to, Aussie Arcade, is Arcade Machines and Pinball, but I only go to the Pinball section. Yeah, me too. Yeah, there you go.
    57:21
    Okay, let's move on, but go back a little bit. So we talked about, well only because we talked about American Pinball before, about Houdini, and Oktoberfest is coming up. And just as a side note, I'm trying to organise this with American Pinball. I may be doing a live stream of Oktoberfest at Texas Pinball Festival. So we're trying to make that happen. That'll be fun if we do. That will be. But, you know, I think it was over a year ago, I was just, you know, I was at work and I was just a little bit curious. So I started looking at this website that shows you what people have registered as trademarks. It's called Justia. And I happened to accidentally stumble across the fact that American Pinball had registered Oktoberfest as a trademark. And that's when we went, all right, we're the first people, we're telling you American Pinball, Oktoberfest. And everyone said that we were idiots and obviously the rest is history. And this also proves that our timing is really off with This Week in Pinball. We have to record before they put their website up. So we missed last week, because I hadn't done this check again, we missed last week that they, on thisweekinpinball.com, please go, that they had also done the same thing and have now found out that American Pinball have trademarked four things. And I just want to get your thoughts on it. One is called Poker Run.
    58:49
    So is that like having date night with a woman? Could be, yep. Okay, okay. The second is Sherlock Holmes.
    58:57
    Third is Valkyries. And four, Robin Hood. Okay. Any of those do anything for you? The only thing I think of Valkyries is Led Zeppelin. Okay.
    59:11
    You're like from Thor movies? Sure. Well, I could get it under the ice and snow. No, that's the only thing I think of. It does nothing for me, Valkyrie. Okay. Poker run, it's, you know, it's a driving around with card game. It could be either thing. It could be maybe like a casino run, almost like playing poker as a thing. We don't know. Is it like a World Poker Tour type thing? It could be. It could be, or it could be just, you know, driving around a car around a country and, you know, getting cards and that kind of stuff and playing poker that way. Who knows? That doesn't do anything, but neither does Oktoberfest for me. Yep, Sherlock Holmes.
    59:54
    I'm not the biggest Sherlock Holmes fan. I hate the books, actually. I was forced to read the books when I was a kid. I like reading. I love reading, actually.
    60:03
    Never got into Sherlock Holmes. Okay. And then Robin Hood. Nope. Unless it's men in tights, that's the only thing I remember.
    60:12
    Tight tights. That's the only thing I'd be interested in. Was that a Mel Brooks one? Oh, of course it was. I thought it might have been. So, here's my thoughts on it. And it's not, I'm not trying to look at this as whether I like the theme or not. And I think that's probably the problem that a lot of people go, oh, I don't like Sherlock Holmes, and I don't like Valkyries, and I don't like Robin Hood, and I don't like that. I don't like any of these themes, if I'm really honest. So therefore what I'm trying to do is take my own personal views out and think, could they make this into something that would appeal to people, A, that do like those themes, or B, that aren't really that bothered about the theme, but somehow it turns it into a decent.
    61:00
    Sherlock Holmes would be my number one on that one. Okay, so the parallel I'll give. Now, I want you to take out what you said previously about Houdini and its shots. But if you think about the theme and the theme integration, I couldn't have given a shit about Houdini before. But for some reason, you look at that and you go, okay, that kind of looks all right. And you've really brought Houdini to life and you've made it something interesting. Okay, there you go. Use that as your backdrop.
    61:30
    Poker Run. Could you do that with Poker Run? No. Sherlock Holmes, could you do that? Yeah, I think that as well. The steampunk and everything like that. Yeah. And if you go back to the 200s. Correct. It fits in with that kind of thing. Could you make a really... But unfortunately, it does tie too much into Houdini, and you don't want to be the company that says, oh boy, I've done now two steampunk-themed pinballs in three tries. Sure. I totally get that. I also think, could you make Sherlock Holmes a really, you know, part-pounding, exciting game? No, you could make it a mystery-solving whodunit type game, I guess. That would be more fun. I think that would be more fun. Don't make it a CSI. Yeah, right. No, okay. But that's what I'm trying to look at. With Sherlock Holmes, can you make that into something that somehow surprises you? But the problem is going to be you'll have the purist going, oh, well, you know, it's not the way the book is and not the way this is and, you know, I expect it to be this. Yeah, and it's not the Will Ferrell version. No one's going to say that. No, God, no.
    62:45
    Zero on one tomato. Zero. Zero was being fucking generous. Generous. Oh, my God. Oh, Will Ferrell, what a comedy genius. Just he is not. Isn't. Yes. So then let's go to Valkyries. So Valkyries, you know, they are those goddesses, you know, almost fairy type. Now, when you hear, besides hearing the song that I just put up, the only thing I think of besides Valkyries is that I think of Farfalla. Right. No, I understand. So, well, because there's also, okay, so just for those people that don't know, I studied music, right? At school, I studied classical music for, you know, from the age of four to when I finished school at 18. And I remember Wagner, the Ring Trilogy, and, you know, the famous piece of music that he did was the entry of the Valkyries into Valhalla.
    63:49
    Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Yes. Right? Yes. So the Valkyries themselves are, you know, meant to be these, you know, very strong, you know, these battle things. I think they're sort of Norse sort of mythology or something, I don't know. But you could make like an epic battle sort of pin that has this really strong female character. That could be quite interesting. But I think when you think Valkyries, I think people will scratch their head at that theme until they see it. And then they see it and they'll go, oh, okay, I get it. And that, you've done something really special. And you can actually, artistically, you can make some really striking art on that using Valkyries. But I think it is of all of those things, like poker running, well everybody knows poker, Sherlock Holmes, we all know Sherlock Holmes, Robin Hood, we'll get to in a second. Valkyrie, people will go, huh, what do you mean? Is that that Leve Zeppelin song or is it? What is it, right? But I think if you were to look up Valkyrie, I would just say do a Google search for Valkyrie and use the image search. Valkyrie knows Dallas. Get a visual. Don't do that one.
    65:15
    Just get a visual of what these Valkyries are meant to look like and you get some really good imagery with it that could make a great pin. So then let's just go to the last one, Robin Hood, because this is the one that I think could translate to a good pin. I kind of agree on that one. Yeah, just because... But it just doesn't do anything for me. No, I understand. Unless it's a Mel Brooks. That's the only thing I think of when I think of Robin Hood. I understand. But also, I think with Sherlock Holmes, Sherlock Holmes has been done and has got some very iconic either movies or TV shows that you go, okay. Robin Hood, besides Ben in Tights and besides that one that had that ridiculous Bryan Adams song, I don't think there's anything that's really iconic about it and you could make and explore your own theme with it without having to reference movies or TV shows. Everything I do, I do it for you. God. Oh, terrible. Anyway. Terrible. So there you go. So there's the American Pinball themes. And we believe that they've registered four, so people don't know which one they're doing.
    66:35
    Great. Yeah. So there's that. Well done, American Pinball. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Thanks for joining us. You're the best. Yeah. Anyway. Hopefully I'll get to stream Oktoberfest and as I said I've already streamed Oktoberfest and had very early code. It is a very fun flippable game and I think that they've actually turned a head scratching theme into something that you go okay that's actually just now a fun game. But I'll get to play it again soon with later code and I'll reserve judgment to them. But certainly layout wise, it's fun to flip. Have you flipped it? No, but I've seen so many videos on it. I think it flips well, but... Yeah, no, I understand. You don't get the theme and a lot of people don't as well. I like the theme, I just don't like the way they did it. I have to see the new code. I'm leaving judgment for everything on that game until I see the new improved code and the new improved shots. That's when I'll do it. Okay, well, tune into my stream.
    67:42
    And the two big shots that they said were difficult, because we did have Josh Kregler on when I was streaming and he was in chat, as well as some of the coders and designers. And he said the two main ones were the scoop was constantly rejecting, and it was when I played it. They've completely re-engineered the scoop so that's much easier. And the side ramp was very difficult to get. And they haven't adjusted the ramp. They've adjusted the placement of the upper right flipper to make that shot a lot easier.
    68:22
    So I haven't played the new layout so I don't know yet. But I will. That's what I'll play. I will let you all know whether it's been an improvement. You better. You know one ought to be really upset.
    68:37
    So what did you do this weekend? Well, that's a really good question. Thank you for asking. So we had the Australian Championship Series. This is the ACS. And effectively, this is, it's our nationals, right? So the top 48 people based on the tournaments that you've done for 2018 are then invited to a location to battle it out to then find out who is the number one in Australia for that year. Previous year I was runner up so I was very happy with that I came second. So this year it was held in Canberra. For those of you who don't know, that is Australia's capital.
    69:23
    And I am in Canberra right now. I am in my hotel room talking to me on my travel laptop after three days. So it started on Friday and Saturday, Sunday, and there was a lot of other side tournaments as well. In fact, for only 40 people competing in the main tournament, there was over 100 people here. It was just this fun weekend of pinball talk, pinball playing, pinball drama. Oh yeah, there was drama of course. Of course there is. Of course there is because sometimes it's too important to people. But, you know, I don't begrudge that. People, you can place what sort of importance you want it or not. Anyway, so the first thing that happened was a... Well actually the first thing that happened was I drove to Canberra, it was a 7 hour drive from Melbourne because I took all my streaming gear. I then set up my streaming gear and we started streaming, I think it was the Wednesday we might have been streaming on Friday night. And then the main tournament happened on Saturday and so qualifying was 4 player match play, over 5 rounds, 3 games each round. and the top 16 get to go through to the finals on Sunday. And how did I do? You want to know? How did you do? I didn't do so well.
    70:57
    Oh, what the fuck? I'm really honest. So there was three groups, Group A, Group B, Group C. I was in Group B. F? No, they weren't in order of ranking, but I was what was considered the tough group. We did have some really tough players in my group, but there were some tough players that I had beaten before, so I didn't feel like I was in the tough group. I was like, well, every group is going to have good and lesser players on it, so it didn't really bother me. I had a relatively good round one, a relatively good round two and a good round three. So I was in, so each of those groups, five people went through from each group and then the sixth person was based on how many points that they'd accumulated. That would be the 16th person that gets through. So by round three, I was in the top five. So I was going to go through. Round 4 I was 2 below the bubble, the cut off. So I had to have a great round 5. How'd that go? I didn't have a great round 5. In fact I had what would be described as a chitter.
    72:17
    My first game was World Cup Soccer. I came 3rd. Next game was Beatles. I came last for two house balls I got. Excellent. All I got was ball three, multiball. You know how you can always bring it? Yeah, yep. That was all I got, but everybody else had two good balls plus multiball, so I came last on that. And then Buccaneer was the last game, and I came third on that. So my final round I got 7 points. The max you could get was 21, so I did not get through to the finals at all. Now, here you go. You want to hear my excuse?
    73:03
    Let's hear it. I've got a really good excuse. You ready? I couldn't have headphones in, and I play so much better when I've got headphones because I get distracted by all the noise around me. Why couldn't you have headphones in? Because I was a fucking idiot. Because I brought my headphones with me that would connect to my phone, but my phone was being used for my PC to be tethered to so we could stream, so I couldn't bring my phone with me. Don't you have like an iPod or something? No, I didn't think this through. Oh, you dumbass. So I'm a freaking idiot. But do you want to know how Ryan C went? How did Ryan C do? Okay. He got the weekend off from jail, right? Yes.
    73:49
    So what actually happened, what was really interesting, in Pool A there were five people that qualified in fifth place.
    74:00
    So they had to have a tiebreaker with five people. So you had Nicholas Noban, Tom Casey, Dirk Boy, Connor Stowe, so Connor from America, he came out, he had qualified, he came out just for this tournament, he came with Jessica Donato and Andre Thompson. And they played off on Buccaneer. And if you go to the Melbourne Silver Ball stream, we actually televised all of this.
    74:25
    And it all came down to, I think, Connor was the fifth player. And, you know, he had to get, you know, he had to practically roll the game to be able to win. And ball one and two were pretty much house balls. And then on this ball three, absolutely smashed it. And you just see this moment on the stream where he realises that he's through to the finals. Goes absolutely nuts. It was such a fun race. It was really cool. So then Pool B, you had a three-way tiebreaker for the fifth spot to go through and that was Pat Nichols from New South Wales, Stacey Borg, friend of the show, and Paul Carter.
    75:06
    And Pat Nichols won through. So Stacey Borg didn't get through, although there's an asterisk on that. And then, Pool C, you had two people that were in the tiebreaker and that was Tony Woods and Ryan C. Ryan C!
    75:22
    And Ryan didn't win. Oh boy, oh my. So what that meant was, you had five people from Pool A go through, five people from Pool B, five people from Pool C or Group C. But then you had three people that were still on 63 points each that could then pay off in another tiebreaker for the 16th person to go through. So that was Stacey Borg, Paul Carter and Ryan C. And? Stacey Borg got through. Oh boy, so I guess Stacey is not invaded at Ryan's house anymore. That's right. That's exactly what happened. So that was qualifying day one. For those people that don't like tournament talk, I'm sorry, this is probably boring you. I'm going to be very quick because that night after qualifying, we then had a group knockout tournament with 76 players.
    76:19
    And in that tournament, I had my headphones on because we weren't streaming it. How do you think I did now that I've got my headphones on?
    76:31
    Winner, winner, chicken dinner. I fucking won it and it was a hard slog but it's because I was putting up all these great scores because I could focus. So yeah, I won that one. Got a trophy and some prize money. I was done. I was happy. I'm like, you know what, I didn't get into the finals but anyway, I'm done. So then the finals happened on Sunday and, you know, all the people that we thought were really going to get through to the finals did. The final four really were Jason Lambert, Richard Rhodes, Peter Watt and Rob Miller. All very solid players.
    77:08
    In fourth place we had Rob Miller. Third place was Peter Watt, so he's been a number one player before. In second place was Jason Lambert, Lambo. He has been a number one player before. But the person actually won was Richard Rhodes. Congratulations. Congratulations Richard Rhodes, RGR.
    77:28
    He's a phenomenal player. And, you know, he got to pick some great machines. And all of that, we did televise the finals. So you'll be able to go to the Melbourne Silver Bowl League Twitch page and watch a recap of that. But also then, you know, social media, the Canberra Times also ran an article on this particular tournament. And Richard Rhodes was interviewed and quoted and it's out there. So it does good to promote pinball. Nice. So there you go. How'd you go? Was that a good recap?
    78:02
    Great. I was on the edge of my seat. You could not do absolute crap. But I'll tell you what was really interesting. So this place was at a... It was like a rock hall, right? Yeah, it was kind of like a band venue. There was a large band stage and there was a smaller band area as well. I think there was about just shy of 40 machines there.
    78:24
    And, you know, you had your usual technical problems. So those people that remember, you know, we started the Head to Head Pinball podcast because Pinhead's Pinball podcast had finished. And one of the people that was on that podcast, so there was Rod Cudahy, Pintech Stevie and Gaz. Pintech Stevie, they're all from Canberra, so Pintech Stevie was there and a lot of his machines were there.
    78:48
    And his tech support on the day, on both days, was just freaking second to none. Not only did he provide all the EMs, which my favourite was Surf Champ. Have you played Surf Champ? Yes, a long, long time ago, but yes. What do you think of it? Can you remember? Sucks. No, it doesn't suck. Suck, it doesn't. It actually a really good EM It actually a really good tournament EM as well I think Let make sure I thinking of the same one let make sure Look it up Right now The reason why I think it a good game Oh, yeah, no, this game sucks, because this is the one we played.
    79:26
    Yeah, exactly, you douchebag. It's really good. The game you played in, what was it called, last year at Pinnberg.
    79:38
    Oh, I've played so many machines in Pinnberg. Oh, but this is the one you played. This is the one you played. They had this at Trash Talker.
    79:48
    I don't remember playing at Trash Talker. Yeah, you did. No, I remember El Turdo. That was the worst. But no, I'll tell you why this, why I think this actually turned out to be a good tournament play. Because this one also played perfectly. It was in immaculate condition. So a lot of players in Australia don't have access to EM machines. Even though there's not a lot of access to solid state. So if you were in a tournament setting, why would you pick an EM?
    80:22
    Well, if you play a lot of them, then you're ahead of the game. Or you know the rules. Or if it plays well. Yes. This game was being constantly picked by all players as their game. So in the finals it was a head-to-head elimination best of five games. Surf Champ was constantly being picked. Now you've got a choice of games like ACDC, Beatles, Iron Maiden, My Six Shadow was there as well, Star Trek, Adam's Family, Batman 66, Buccaneer was another one, Creature of the Black Lagoon. You've got all these DMDs and modern Stern games. Why were people constantly picking Surf Champ and EM? Because I'm telling you, even though you may think it sucks, I reckon you've played a sucky version. This one played really well and it was a strategy. You know, you either go for your bonus and then try to multiply your bonus or you try to get the star rollovers to get the right scoop. And it was just really good because you could just see by someone standing up their first flip, what are they going for? Are they going for bonus or are they going for immediate points? And it was just fun to watch. Anyway, there you go. I just thought I'd call that out because Surf Champ... Still sucks. Well, you say that, but for some reason, this surf champ was constantly being picked by people that hate EMs. So there you go. Something about it.
    81:54
    Still a Gottlieb. Sucks. Yeah, sure. Okay. So, you'll never like a Gottlieb. Not most. What do I hate for Gottliebs? Is it because you work on them and they're unreliable, or you just don't like the layout or the rules? Because you really do have a hate for Gottlieb. All three. All three. I disagree with you so much on this. Okay, okay. When you actually get to repair a game, get back to me. Yeah, no, I get that, right? No, no, no. The rules suck. Wait a second. Okay, so let's go to any 80s Gottlieb, would you want to own?
    82:34
    I'll poke a hole in each one of them. Go ahead. Okay, you can poke a big hole in this one. In fact, you could poke a black hole in this one. Oh, did you see what I did there? Yeah.
    82:46
    Do you know what? And I had this opportunity a couple of years ago to buy a black hole because against everybody's judgment, I really like black hole. But I know it is an absolute nightmare to repair and B, you have to repair it a lot. So I would never own it for that. But when it's working, I like the rules and I like the layout because I like it. So you like that you have no chance if you're in the lower playfield and you don't get all the targets, you're screwed. So, to get the targets. Yeah. No, no, so you have no chance at that. No, but get the targets. You don't like that. So you're saying what they should have done is had a ball down there permanently and just killed the game. Yeah, sure. Look, I know, and everyone says that it's flawed, and I get that. That's okay. But I would love that, and I would have loved Haunted House. I love Haunted House but I find the rules are just so shallow that it becomes really repetitive. Yes, I totally agree. Eight flippers of badness, that's all it is. Yeah, but you know, I just think for me solid states of that era, you can't go wrong. I mean obviously there are some shitters but I think if you were to have a Stern Electronics, a Bally, a Gottlieb or a Williams solid state, For me that's just such a great era, I love that era. And I played so many machines at the time when they were being released that I just have fondness and I know that you look at them in today's lens, some of them have not aged well at all, but I still have such a strong nostalgia for those games.
    84:26
    So, there you go. But when you go by that, I go Stern, Bally, Williams, and then forget me not, because Gatley sucks. I don't think they do and a lot of people agree with me but you know you've obviously had an incident with a Gottlieb and we'll just leave it there. We're not going to talk about it. Yes, it abused me. It took advantage of me. Anyway, so what I was telling you is that it was a really good mix of older EMs, solid states, alphanumerics, DMDs and even new machines at the ACS. Other thing to note was it was really good that there were some people from the States there. So I mentioned Conor Stowe was there. Jessica Donato from the Pimball podcast, she was there as well. Pimball Howard was there. Howard Dodson.
    85:20
    Happens to come to Australia every three years and just happened to be on when the ACS was there. So it was really good to talk to him. It was very cool. And when I saw Conor and Jessica, I went, oh my God, how freaky. You guys would make the effort to come over to Australia just for a tournament. And I went, oh, hang on. I've done that four times. I totally get why you would do it. If you can, why not do it?
    85:46
    So, and last full stop on ACS, the streaming that I did with the new sort of improved big rig just worked flawlessly. Nice. That's what I like to hear. I was very pleased with that. So the only problem I had was that there was, I think there was in the main banks, there was probably 18 machines. Nine of them were in the room that I was in. The other nine were right over the other side of the building. And for the most part, all the machines that people wanted to play were out the front room. So we had to do a lot of chit-chat and then we actually got some of those machines moved into the back room. So anyway, done. All right. Done. Would you like to play Pinslam the Top 100? So, the game, I finally get to play the game that you guys stole from us?
    86:35
    What do you mean? We didn't steal it from you. You've borrowed it, at least. We created a modified version of a game that you probably stole probably off somebody else. Okay, okay. You backed away really quickly because... No, no, no, I steal everything. That's exactly right. No, I don't think, you know, we just went, oh, let's do this, and that's how we looked at it. But we just love, you know, I'm just going to play like, I'm going to, next time me and Ron come on, I'm just going to play with his head all the time. Fair enough. So let's say, okay, we do need to do a recap on last week. So when Jeff Teolis was on, yeah, that's right. He had Congo. I heard you had a conversation with him or a couple conversations about some things. We didn't talk about anything. Moving on. So we certainly didn't say anything that got us into a lot of trouble. We're not going to read that one, but thank you. I really appreciate you bringing that up. Thanks, mate. You're welcome. Okay, let's move it. I'm moving it on. So Jeff had Congo, I had Bonsai Run. What do you think is the better machine?
    87:55
    Me? Yeah, you. What would you have voted for? I know what I voted for and then I took it away. What did you vote for? And I changed it. I actually voted for Congo. Me, preferably, I actually prefer Bonsai Run. It is very linear, it is very basic, but there is something seeing a fully functioning Bonsai Run that makes me smile. Yeah, okay.
    88:21
    But if you had to own one, what would you have, Congo or Bonsai Run? Kongo in a second. So would I.
    88:33
    But this is the hard thing about Pinslam. You can only vote for one. Just because Kongo is a great game doesn't mean Bonsai Run is shit. But I do maintain this. These are my exact thoughts. So the actual result was 64% of people voted for Kongo, 36% voted for Bonsai Run. And I think that's probably fair. I think that's probably about right. I agree. Bonsai Run, that upper back box, I hate. Really? I don't find that enjoyable at all. But I tell you what I do like, I like the lower playfield. I really like that layout. And when you've got one that's in fantastic condition, it's really fun to play. I just feel that that back box is the equivalent of an upper playfield that's not enjoyable like Game of Thrones, upper playfields, you know what I mean? It stops the game and you're like, I'm not going to do this, go yellow beard, you're going for blue beard, whatever. Just fucking... Going for chinball!
    89:41
    So I would pick Congo, but I don't love Congo as much. No, you know, I actually don't like it either. I love it, like love it or hate it. But if it was out of those two, I'd probably pick Hunter. Yep, I agree with you. So, there you go. Alright, so, let's get Pinslam 100, you know, registered trademarks. Absolutely. Yes, registered trademark, in Australia only.
    90:11
    Okay, so let's go to Fun Pinside and see. Let's go to the top 100. Yeah, we're going 200 to 300? What are we doing? I am versatile in craft games. Yes, I am. So, oh look, I just noticed that Pirates of the Caribbean, Jersey Jack, is currently spinning in number 6. Wow. And that's only with 146 ratings. What do you think that will settle to? 12, 15. It's a really good game. I actually do really like it. I haven't played it yet. Yeah, I have not played it. Yeah, I played it probably about three or four weeks ago. It is a fun game and they've made a really complicated and convoluted rule set into just a fun flip, hit the lit shots kind of game. If you want to deep dive into it, go through the rabbit hole. But if you just want to hit things and have lights flash and movie clips, it's fun. Anyway, so let's do the top 200 because at least with you on the podcast, you know the machines from 100 to 200. I've always had an advantage over Ryan because he doesn't know those machines all that well.
    91:29
    Okay, you ready? Yep, we're ready. Okay, so this is my number. Hey Google, pick a number between 0 and 200. Coming right up. You're a wanker.
    91:46
    197. Oh, where is that going? I love when it gives you the shittiest numbers. What? This is crap. Title Fight. Title Fight? That's that, um, that is that, uh, the street level game. Yeah, street level with the interactive back box. Yeah, okay, that's a great game, I love it, I'm really pleased I got that. Fuck me.
    92:15
    Okay, here we go. You ready? Yep. Hey Google, pick a number between 0 and 200. Okay. I'm American. 87.
    92:32
    What's 87? 110 better than yours. It really is. Quick to the Lack! Oh, fuck yeah, I love Goofy. I gotta look at the flyer for this one, guys.
    92:56
    Just any playing Super Bowl. The Odyssey. I'll listen to him up right now. Have you ever given up before trying to say it? It's like this was completely staged. Like, how the fuck?
    93:16
    I love it! Fucking revenge. Oh my god. Okay, well, it means that you've got to go first. So, go, you've got 30 seconds. The best Stern Pinball machine ever made. You gotta spell Quicksilver, three pop bumpers, fast, super fast, great sounds, sweepable middle drop target, two spinners. This is what makes Sterns one of the best games, unlike somebody else's bad choice that he has to talk about in a few seconds. I can't even tell you about Tidalfight. You know, street level machines and it's also got an interactive back glass which is kind of cool. You've got these boxes and you know it goes 3, 2, 1, fight and you've got a box and you know sometimes it's really easy, sometimes it's really difficult. I actually find, I've got to tell you I actually find the layout of this quite interesting. In particular the right loop that you can do. It's actually quite fun. It's got also this little sort of almost like a mini playfield but it's not an upper playfield. It's just sort of on the top left. It's fun. It's actually not as bad a game as people think. The only problem it's obviously got is the flippers. Just, you know, Gottlieb, what were you thinking at the time? But it's actually kind of a cool game. There you go. That's the best I got. Okay, so I can either bash yours, which I don't really have to, Or talk about the goodness of Quicksilver. Look at all the top players who own and have played Quicksilver and have talked about Quicksilver. Keith Elwin owns one.
    95:27
    Bone Cairns owned one and did a great tutorial for Papa. This is one of the most desirable machines out there. And your own Australian who's in jail right now owns not one, but two Quicksilvers.
    95:45
    Yours truly owns a half of a Quicksilver. It is one of the best, fastest, fun games out there from the early 80s. If you don't get a chance to play one, find somebody who owns one and play it. It is that much. Just pure excitement. Three banks of drop tar. Obviously, if they made this game, it would be $10,000 right now. Quicksilver. Alright, so I've had to argue against Quicksilver before and I'm going to argue almost the same way but I'm just going to add a little bit. Are you going to talk about penises again? Well, yes, but even further than that. Okay, come on. So not only is the back glass art ripped off of a painting, like it actually is, it's ripped off. It is, of course. It's absolutely ripped off. In fact, you were on the show last time, I think, when we talked about this. Yes.
    96:41
    I'm not even going to talk about the fact that there's supposed to be penises on the playfield because I don't actually think they look like penises. What I think has happened is somebody has just gotten a playfield and painted it green. They've got a paint roller out. They've gone, oh, fuck, this shitty green paint will do. They've painted the whole thing, right? They've then eaten a tin of asparagus and then they've literally just jizzed all over the playfield and gone, yep, fucking that'll do.
    97:15
    There's a playfield for Quicksilver. Literally jizz all over it. That's all it is. So, you know, it's disgusting. It's filthy, it's dirty, it's immoral. Well, you know, if you like Quicksilver, then I question your morals.
    97:34
    All right, fuck you. Woohoo! You're a genius. That's the best I've got. Also, the only other thing I don't, and I know you'll argue against this, I think the sounds in this machine aren't great.
    97:48
    Oh, really? Oh my God. The S-B-300 is great. But for me, I just don't think the sounds are any good. But there you go. Title Fight is a much better game, easily. And it sold more units. Good.
    98:06
    I don't know if that's true. Let's see. Quicksilver sold more. Yeah, 1,200. So that's still not that many. That's surprising to me that Quicksilver didn't sell more than that. Well, it was when Stern was starting to really go downhill, unfortunately. Yeah, fair enough. You know, Gary started hitting the vodka bottle really bad then. Yeah, and it was games like Quicksilver that started making them. Oh, I think it was games like Orbiter 1 that really made them start making drinking. Give me the case of vodka now, I'm going to be in the back office.
    98:43
    So, there we go. Have you got anything else? What else did you do besides travel 36 hours? What else did you get up this week?
    98:50
    I bought, I got that game, I bought a Joust arcade game today. Okay. What else? I got my taxi back. I don't know if I talked about that, but I got my old taxi back, so I am happy with that.
    99:06
    Working at the bar right now, I just found out what is wrong with Medieval Madness just now. The whole shooter assembly for the ball launch dropped from the screws. So now I get to see what the good quality of Chicago gaming was and see what the hell happened there. Okay.
    99:27
    Yeah, fun, huh? Awesome. So the bar is still going well. So that's the Silver Ball Saloon. I don't think anyone's heard of the Silver Ball Saloon. Where is this? I don't know. I don't think they have either. 135 West Commercial Street, East Rochester, New York. Awesome. And will you be going to either Texas Pimball Festival or Pimberg this year? No Pim, no, no, uh, Texas Pinball, uh, festival, unfortunately, but I have never missed a Pinnberg. Well, there you go. Okay. So I am definitely there, even if I don't make the cutoff, because it is now expanded. It's now expanded 1,000 people, which people, people send me messages going, oh my God, did you know it's 1,000? I'm like, well, I kind of knew that it was going to be, because last year, even though we had, what, 840, They were testing additional tournament directors, additional tech support, additional everything to determine whether they could support a thousand players this year. Obviously they could. Well done. So I know where you're going to be. So what time is it? It's going to be 2 in the morning for you, isn't it? I think it was 4 o'clock last time. Here's the issue that I've got. I better not hear you crying again that you missed it. No, I will make sure I don't make that same mistake. Good.
    100:46
    We were talking you off the ledge last year. You know that. When I miss, like everyone knows that I put the wrong thing in my cart, the first person I messaged was Jesse Ollis. But the second person I met, no, actually you were the first person I messaged. I was like, what the fuck? And then I messaged him. And everyone's going, just stay calm, keep refreshing, keep refreshing. And I did, so I got in. But around about the same time this year as Pinball is the Brisbane Masters, which is now a pro circuit tournament. And I've not done it before and I really wanted to do it this year. So I don't know whether I'm going to do both or just one. We'll work it out at some stage. I would love to see you know that. Yeah, it would be great. Because I had a great time with you last year. I still remember one of my highlights of Pinball was just, you know, casually standing around and then he went, I was like, what fucking idiot would yell my name out from across the room? Of course, within a split second I'm like, okay, I recognise that voice. Where is it coming from? There you were. Of course, because I love you, brother. Who's got the loud voice to do it? You actually did hear it. Exactly right. And then we all had a lot of fun at the Trash Talker. That was certainly only fun.
    102:10
    Yeah. I say that only because I won. Of course. And it went towards a good cause. Yeah, it absolutely did. So there we go. So, Bruce, thank you so much for coming on this week. It's always fucking fun to talk to you, man. We loved you. I miss you. And as I said, you never know. Anything can happen with TPF. I might fly down for a day. Who knows? That would be great if you could. Just for me. I'd love to. Just to come in and see you. But if I don't see you, I hope to see you at Pimber because you are one of the best. Thank you. You are... One of the worst. I was talking to myself.
    102:50
    All right. Thanks, everybody, again, for listening. Thank you, Ron, for potentially coming on. Hopefully, next time we'll get you on. Thanks everybody. Email us, head to heckpinball at gmail.com, go to our website, go to our Facebook page, play lots of pinball. And the petition, don't forget the petition. What's that? Oh, to get Ryan out of jail. Yes, we're going to actually do a GoFundMe to get him out of prison to pay for his legal bills. Exactly, because God, this is just getting boring with you, man. I'm sorry.
    103:21
    So, funny enough, we did actually get some feedback. Okay. Okay, you ready? Yes. So, after I did that episode with Stacey Borg, we actually had a message come through via our website from a Levy Newman saying, bring Ryan back. So, that was Levy Newman. You know, crazy Levy, Levy Newman. Oh, yeah, crazy Levy. Yes, I know very Levy is a good, good friend of ours. He's in New York State with us and we get to play all this game. His name's Levy Newman, isn't it? No, Nevman. Oh, is it? So how come we got a message from crazy that was Levy Newman? I don't know. Well, I don't know. Do you think Levy doesn't know how to spell his surname? Maybe not. Well, we did face the IP back and it was in New York and that's where Levy is located. So it could only have been him. He just accidentally spelt his surname wrong. Yeah, that's got to be it. Or maybe it's like somebody else in New York. No, it would have been him just accidentally spelling his surname wrong. He wouldn't know what his surname is. He's like, oh, what's my name? Crazy Levy. Oh, shit. I'm known as Crazy Levy. I can't remember my surname. It must be Newman. There you go. Thank you for your feedback, Crazy Levy.
    104:39
    All right. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you again next week. Thanks, guys. Bye. You know it's true, everything I do, I do it for you.
    104:54
    You look into your heart, and you will find, there's nothing there to hide. Take me as I am, take my life, I will give it all, I will sacrifice. Don't tell me, it's not worth fighting for, I can't help it, just nothing else, one more. You know it's true, everything I do, I do it for you. Iron Maiden, Derepool, Pirates of the Caribbean, Black Knight.