Stern leadership shake-up, Bond LE pricing puzzle, and dealer market speculation.
Summary
Zach Minney and Dennis Kriesel discuss major Stern Pinball leadership changes (Gary Stern stepping down as CEO, Seth Davis promoted, CFO Mac O'Donnell retiring), the imminent James Bond 60th Anniversary Limited Edition reveal on January 3rd with 500 global units and call-for-pricing dealer model, and broader industry pricing dynamics and dealer relationships in a three-part episode of The Pinball Show.
Key Claims
Gary Stern is stepping down as CEO but remaining as chairman of the board and controlling shareholder at Stern Pinball
high confidence · Zach Minney and Dennis Kriesel, episode 120 Part 1 of The Pinball Show
Seth Davis is promoted to full-time CEO at Stern Pinball after a trial period of about a year
high confidence · Zach Minney and Dennis Kriesel discussing leadership changes
Mac O'Donnell is retiring after 35 years as CFO at Stern Pinball
high confidence · Zach Minney and Dennis Kriesel
Nick Parfitt is joining Stern Pinball as the new CFO
high confidence · Zach Minney and Dennis Kriesel
James Bond 60th Anniversary Limited Edition will be revealed on January 3rd, 2023
high confidence · Zach Minney and Dennis Kriesel
There will be 500 James Bond 60th Anniversary games produced globally
high confidence · Zach Minney discussing game allocation
James Bond 60th Anniversary will use a call-for-pricing model without a dealer seminar
high confidence · Zach Minney explaining dealer information and pricing strategy
Stern will sell a handful of James Bond 60th Anniversary games directly through their Insider program
high confidence · Zach Minney
Dealers will receive pricing information about one hour before public reveal of James Bond 60th Anniversary
medium confidence · Zach Minney stating dealers 'are going to be given some info probably an hour before the public reveal'
Dennis received a Deadpool Premium as a Christmas gift from Zach Minney, and George Gomez recorded a congratulations message for him
high confidence · Zach and Dennis discussing the gift and playing George Gomez's audio message
Notable Quotes
“Gary Stern maybe the most iconic person living in the pinball industry stepping down as CEO from Stern Pinball Incorporated”
Zach Minney@ 14:46 — Identifies the magnitude of this leadership change in industry context
“I think he'll start making his mark on it and there may be some things that Gary did that Seth did not agree with that he kept his mouth shut about until he was CEO”
Dennis Kriesel@ 17:23 — Speculation about potential organizational changes under new CEO leadership
“I think Stern sets the floor whether they mean to or not I think they end up saying the floor”
Zach Minney@ 26:40 — Key insight into how direct sales pricing will influence distributor pricing strategy
“it's going to be a messy Tuesday but it's a good problem to have”
Zach Minney@ 23:11 — Describes the chaos expected on Bond reveal day when dealers scramble for pricing and information
“the pool man has shown up to say Merry Christmas”
George Gomez@ 8:04 — George Gomez's recorded message referencing Deadpool pinball gift
“I think that Stern sets the floor whether they mean to or not”
Zach Minney@ 26:37 — Central thesis about pricing power dynamics in the Bond LE release strategy
personnel_signal: Gary Stern steps down as CEO (remaining as chairman), Seth Davis promoted to full-time CEO, Mac O'Donnell retires as CFO after 35 years, Nick Parfitt joins as new CFO
high · Direct statement of personnel changes and their roles
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business_signal: Zach references that 4-5 years ago Stern was intentionally recruiting next-generation executives to prepare for retirements of senior figures including Gary Stern
high · Zach recalls interview discussions about decade-long transition planning
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announcement: James Bond 60th Anniversary Limited Edition will be officially revealed January 3rd, 2023
high · Zach and Dennis confirm launch date multiple times
?
product_strategy: James Bond 60th Anniversary uses call-for-pricing model without dealer seminar; Stern selling handful direct via Insider program; dealers receiving info ~1 hour before public reveal
high · Detailed explanation of pricing and information distribution strategy
$
market_signal: Discussion that Stern's direct pricing will effectively set an unofficial MSRP floor that influences dealer pricing, even without formal MSRP
medium · Extended discussion of how public visibility of Stern's direct price creates de facto pricing benchmark
?
collector_signal: 500 units globally for James Bond 60th Anniversary, described as likely to sell out regardless of pricing; high demand expected
Topics
Stern Pinball Leadership TransitionsprimaryJames Bond 60th Anniversary Limited Edition Reveal and Pricing StrategyprimaryDistributor Pricing Dynamics and Market RelationshipsprimaryLimited Edition Production Scarcity and FOMOsecondaryStern Pinball Facility and Organizational ChangessecondaryPodcast Content and Community EngagementsecondarySupply Chain and Shipping Issuesmentioned
Sentiment
mixed(0.55)— Tone is generally positive and excited about game reveals and industry news, but with some concern about pricing complexity and uncertainty around James Bond LE distribution. Leadership changes are treated as significant but not alarming. Humor and camaraderie between hosts balances technical discussion.
Transcript
youtube_auto_sub · $0.000
warning The Following episode contains adult language and screaming goats listener discretion is advised [Music] the pinball network is online launching the pinball show have happy New Year this week Dennis and I talk about back Breakers non-winners Stern Pinball production updates for Q3 and Q4 of 2023 leadership changes this term pinball James Bond's 60th anniversary edition details discussing limited games versus cost projections in part two of episode 120 our predictions for what's coming in 2023 from each manufacturer in part 3 of this week's episode we discuss the pinball Awards season and big old changes coming to the third annual crystals where this year your voice matters and you can win a lot of prizes as well as a very special 2022 pinball market trends y'all the pinball show is so big this week we can't contain it it's mutating why does it have three legs wait that's not allowed don't temper your expectations good old acquaintance be forgotten and never brought to mine should old acquaintance be forgotten and the days of all lands on the son it's a passion and a lifestyle [Music] [Applause] it's time for the pinball show it's pinball with personality oh I'm so happy to be here because this is the pinball show this is my everything I love this podcast and I love that we're in episode 120. my name is Zach Minnie I'm the host alongside our other host Dennis kriesel from The Eclectic Gamers podcast you know just uh an all-around swell God how's it going it's going pretty well we're here we are and we're actually behind the scenes recording on New Year's Day we are but we've recovered enough to to Eck out an episode you know just before the bond 60th reveal yeah it's coming it's coming Tuesday we promise people select the dragons in Game of Thrones season one they're coming we promise to stick with it so anything special on New Year's Eve no I uh I usually it's just a little you know a few hours before I've never New Year's was never like a big holiday thing for me ever so it's like I usually just watch but I always like to try and stay up till midnight so I usually just watch a movie I actually watched the uh Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movies from a few years ago which your friend uh jablotsky I believe did the music for the second one yeah no no I don't think he did the first so he did the second one so I hadn't seen those so I watched both of those and um I like the music to the second one which is impressive no they got me the the second one looked better but it was kind of I felt like they were cramming in every I don't remember Turtles super well I mostly remember it from video games so they started like oh they're really they're like cramming in all of the all of the names yeah they even had Baxter but they didn't have any of those Baxter fly which I kept my way is it gonna be a fly what's going on um and so and then they didn't have April O'Neil in her yellow jacket at all and I thought oh come on Megan Fox wants to wear the yellow jacket I believe it I believe in her now a lot has happened since you know New Year's and when we last spoke to these listeners here which was before Christmas yeah before Christmas we had a holiday uh get together you had your jammies on with the rest of the crystal family that was a good time I I assume yeah it was Christmas went well and of course uh your your gift or your well and there were multiple gifts well that one was just a filler you know just a little fun and I think it's my I think it's my job to be the filler of that yeah that's so true tell them about it like okay what a sick we do it so uh yes Zach shipped me this is huge box so it felt to me huge like Amazon's like here you ordered a stapler here have this giant box style so this bar this box comes in I'm like what is this is this a a Topper surely not Zach knows my ceilings are pretty low yeah open it in his light it's super light I opened it up uh I knew it was coming though because I get the UPS notifications whatever anything from UPS is coming to my house and open this box up and there's all this air wrap and I open get past the little air padded Bubbles and everything one one pair of Nordman boxer briefs yes [Music] so the backside on the cheeks that shows the the emblem right and then on the front kind of in the in the uh crochetal region we would say it says the silver ball night you really should have made it say ball tonight just for the underwear that would have been more appropriate oh I'm so glad that you got this I don't know why this will put him in a big ass box just probably like oh that was a fact yeah you can fold them up really small put them in the envelope [ __ ] this is one pair just one pair I like that she put like security wrap around it and everything yes it was very safe it was just like yeah she said it wrapped up in a security thing like the old CDs that Sam goody remember the same goody yeah I think you're right but oh gosh those were it wasn't that bad to open I know that was CD cases cheese so yeah that's right you did get some underwear and you did get a game from me for Christmas and we expanded it out to everybody if they guessed correctly they were going to win the one most wonderful prizes but nobody got it correct you lose you get that thing not only did they not get the trim level they didn't get the games much less so the trim level aspect was moot didn't matter maybe it was a little tricky but yeah what was it was it's still in production still in production I had one stashed away for a while it was from the last run which was a long time ago I mean it was like yeah so I get that I get why that would be you know for the Discerning like knowing those who were like vetting it against what's on the line based off of the information you'd provided in the episode I could kind of see I just thought at least someone would have lucked into it right I mean I didn't I don't know if I saw every single message that that came in but I I looked at a lot it seemed like Mandalorian was the most common guess was there in Toy Story people guessed a lot of in Rush people guessed a lot of yeah no no and no tell them what it was Dennis for those who didn't see it was a Deadpool premium oh yes I think that was a pretty good call for you I think Tony and I are gonna it was and then what they also of course don't know because they didn't know the gang was you got Mr George Gomez to record a little happy Christmas Dennis uh audio thing which was which was way too burdensome to have put on him so I did email him and I thanked him for for doing that nice yeah I will uh I'll play that right now for listeners this is what uh our homie gomi had to say to the crystal hey Dennis it's George Gomez I understand you have gotten an amazing Christmas present the pool man has shown up to say Merry Christmas and oh boy I hope uh I hope you have a great time with it um I just heard Mr Maney is gifting you a what is a Deadpool premium I think yikes it's it's the uh you know it's the game that I would take to a desert island with me I'll tell you that right now so uh enjoy it Boom Baby Boom so anyway thank you very much Zach it was very surprising and yes it has been quite a bit of fun now you gotta admit when that disco mode goes that's a cool little moment it is it is with a repeating shot you know what it's cool effect on the I couldn't remember if I had played a premium I had but only like once I mostly played a press so I didn't realize the ball spin spun yeah yeah and it shines I mean there's this goes on that whole place you hear that little ramp it comes back up that's a cool game and now being in the home I can actually hear the call outs because I've always played It On Location sure so so which I you know it always seemed funny but yeah it's it's yeah it's pretty entertaining I got to admit it was a good pick Andrew's still fully connected I am I am I was like I bet this one I bet I bet Zach's sending this so that I have to buy an Insider connected kit that was my because you'll be like you know Dennis you can't you can't have one Spike system with the with the connected kit like Godzilla but then I thought well this was new in box I wasn't sure that it came out when the connected kits were available I couldn't remember so I thought this might be pre-connected but it was not it was post connected it was the other last run was one they squeezed in right after the I don't know when the build date on it actually is January yeah that was a uh a false game that I kept kept back well thank you it was extremely kind of you thank you for accepting I thought it fit well in your collection and you know what I got for Christmas another back surgery oh no that's very sad just after we got done talking about it I had to go to the an outpatient appointment so they could look it over and damned if they didn't say that doesn't look good we're hospitalizing you for an emergency surgery and you're going back under the knife Merry Christmas you filthy animal but I did make it home before Christmas so that was great I still can't do much and it kills me yeah it's too bad that it had to happen again but I guess you would you had indicated there wasn't any infection or anything so no infection that was good for all those that aren't squeamish yeah they did cultures and uh it all came back good was it Cincinnati like my theory has been in Cincinnati see Chuck fix that show I know I even had help I don't know what to do anymore you know yeah except for you when you went to the drop Freight Place yeah that didn't take help damn it oh well it's just a back right I'll have to get a fusion at some point listener for those of you who know the difference between all the different surgeries for the backs I'll have to get a spinal fusion that's going to be like a six month recovery it's gonna happen I just need to plan on when it's going to happen yeah just do it during your slow season that's right see problem solved uh speaking of bad backs your poor FedEx delivery guy that delivered the Deadpool premium damn near hurt his back can you tell people about that oh yeah so okay so so shipping issues right right so anyway the game comes in um you know it's on the pallet of course wrapped uh he's got it on this sort of giant you know wheelie Dolly thing it takes it into my garage where I've got plenty of space cleared so we take it off there he's covering up the label because he's like because I mentioned you know someone shipped it to me as a gift I don't know what it is and so he covered it when he wheeled it in he's like I'm calling cover the name you know I go and check the box for damage didn't see any damage he's like yeah no no I'd have told you if I saw any damage I was like okay well the last guy was like yeah we don't go to any efforts if there's damage I think a friendly fedexer yeah he was very really friendly I guess he delivered a few other pinballs before because he had mentioned I mentioned that so he's asking me about pinballs when he's leaving and he's backing up you know he's got the dolly in front of him and he's backing up and I once he had pulled in I had backed my car our car out of the driveway a little more I I don't park in the garage so I had it out in the driveway and I just I backed out more to give him way more clearance and so anyway he's backing up he's backing up but he's not looking behind him and I'm and I'm finally I realize oh no he doesn't remember where the car is but before I can say anything he backs himself right into the bumper the dolly this huge Dolly rolls into him like pins his leg and he falls against the hood and catches up your core yes oh yes and oh he was so of course he's super embarrassed about it but he I mean he's a clearly in pain he grabs his leg because this is this huge so it's not like a normal like normal home version Dolly this is that huge rolly thing yes yeah thank you thank you you know the problem so pallet jack and so you know he he gets it pushes it forward you know gets off the car he's looking at the car because he's worried that he he you know dented it or or something I'm like I glance over at him like no it looks fine it's are you okay okay I mean you bend yourself against the car and he's like no no it's not it's all right and he goes I hear him get to the truck and his you know he's got an associate in the truck with him I hear him going about it complain about how he penned himself against the car on the way out because he didn't look behind him all you were doing just sitting there on your damn thing that's right you didn't even come in you didn't help didn't do anything that's why you're my Runner you're supposed to get your ass out of here and they sat out there for like 10 minutes I thought maybe his leg's too wounded to push the accelerator and he's stuck you were the winner of a brand new pinball machine he was I'm not gonna call him a loser we'll call him a non-winner of that whole delivery situation and all of you listeners out there I'm not going to call you losers because I love you but you guys were non-winners with that whole contest of guessing the Deadpool premium for Dennis Crystal so I like that there was someone on on pinside who had commented from Australia because he didn't he was worried about the shipping cost of the of the great of the you know big award is just like well you don't have to worry anymore no worrying about that you're not gonna so none of you won I had I had two Deadpool premiums none of you won that other brand new pinball machine I'm so sorry all right that's too bad but you know what that you know what they say second place is the first first non-winner speaking of winners I think Craig Bobby is in hibernation still so we're going to uh we're going to allow him a couple more weeks to regroup and come back doesn't mean we don't have news here at the pinball show we have a ton of it oh yeah there's a lot so let's kick it off with Stern Pinball Stern Pinball a lot of movement this last couple weeks such as Gary Stern maybe the most iconic person living in the pinball industry stepping down as CEO from Stern Pinball Incorporated that's a that's a big one that's a big one he's been doing it for a long time and we knew that when Shelly Sachs was retiring those two came in together I thought yeah maybe this is reading the tea leaves here I knew something may have been going on so he's stepping down CEO but he will continue to serve as the chairman of the board over his term pinball uh and the other owner Dave Peterson is going to remain the vice chairman of the board so they'll still be you know leading the the board there and both Gary and Dave they're going to remain the controlling shareholders of the company they're going to serve in executive roles on a project basis so they're still going to be around they're still going to be doing stuff they they still are the majority owners of this company so I don't see huge huge changes we know that Seth Davis came in about a little over a year ago to kind of take on that CEO position as like attempt kind of thing so he's now full-time CEO at Stern Pinball and a lot not a lot of people are talking about I haven't heard it but 35 years a CFL Mac O'Donnell is retiring as well and he has newcomer Nick parfit joining the company to take over the CFO position yeah I didn't find this news surprising uh not for the Tea Leaf Purpose with Shelley like you did but rather just simply because they brought in Seth yeah a while ago to sort of integrate it right and I think I think it was uh with Joel ingleberth on his interview with George Gomez that was on The Flipping Out YouTube that uh George had noted yeah they brought in Seth and you know they were it was to see if he was a good fit you know they wanted to sort of test drive him and see if he worked well with the culture and that he did so that all was part of that logic that makes sense to me about bringing it in I in terms of changes though you know I I actually think this this could be interesting because normally at least as best as I know typically the board which all right so Gary's still on the board because of his investment you know just like if it even as a public traded company or or whatnot or non-profit boards you know I work for a board uh as an executive director to sort of a you know essentially a CEO on a nonprofit side the uh it's the CEO is subject to the will of the board but generally the employees are under the control and discretion of the CEO so even though Seth is quote unquote fit in with Stern it will be interesting if he I think he'll start making his mark on it and there may be some things that Gary did that Seth did not agree with that he kept his mouth shut about until he was CEO and he'll probably start executing some changes oh so you think it could be a little bit of a stir up no I'm not thinking anything major like I'm not thinking like Matt like the whole like all the design teams change or anything like that but there may be some structural uh decisions like I don't think he's going to change on the cornerstones and stuff but there might be some shuffling around uh like I've I've wondered if maybe Seth has been someone for example that had just a complete hypothetical but let's say he's been the one that's been like you know what it seems like the teams have been really really flexible they have haven't really been teams except project by project but we know Elwyn has worked really consistently with a set team of people maybe Seth says everyone's on set teams now and it's not going to be flexible like it used to be like Jack danger will have a team and Brian Eddy will have a team you know the programmer will always be with the designer and you know the same leads yeah some big decisions but yeah not drastic to uh right right some of that and of course moving to the new facility there might be some internal logistical changes that Seth will want to do based off of his prior experience with other companies that he thinks makes more sense than I think we'll see it there yeah yeah whereas Stern I think probably has been well you know it worked at Data East it worked at Sega let's keep you know what you know sort of a you've got the it ain't broke don't fix it uh philosophy and then you've also got the just because something ain't broke doesn't mean it can't be improved of course the risk is of course tinkering was something that ain't broken then breaking it so you never know but yeah no I think he'll I think we'll see more change now than we did when Seth came in because he now will have more autonomy as CEO because normally at least again in in the organizations I've worked with which have been more non-profit oriented but it's been yeah the CEO answers to the board but the board generally doesn't boards don't generally like get to muck around with the individual employee levels so also if there are people there that Seth doesn't like they might be uh they might be removed yeah bringing his own people or at least get rid of the people he don't like hmm it'll be an interesting year and again I think that fits with some you know with with like uh O'Donnell leaving and all of that you see there's a reason why Old Guard off and all goes kind of at the same time because the work culture is going to change a bit maybe not a lot but it'll change some and I remember how this dates back four four years ago maybe five years ago man probably about four years ago um when I interviewed for a job there and subsequently a year later interviewed again um they talked about you know over the next decade we're transitioning to you know we have a lot of senior Executives here that are going to be retiring including Gary Stern including you know CFOs cros include all of these people so we're looking for this next generation of Stern Pinball Executives and we're wanting passionate people that are willing to grow into that spot so yeah I can that all makes sense to me that all makes sense but where does it go from here we'll have to wait and see oh speaking of we've waited long enough for James Bond's 60th anniversary limited edition by Keith elwin it's finally time for them to launch and reveal this game Dennis January 3rd too late I said it was going to be in December and I was wrong and so now I think I was wrong too I I think in the last one you hedged a bit and said early January late December early January in a desperate attempt to reposition your prediction well it still makes me wonder when they're going to build these things we don't know we know there's going to be launched January 3rd 2023 I don't know if I'm supposed to announce time I'll say the morning how about that you guys are welcome um it's going to be a little bit different for dealers typically we'd have a seminar day of or day before talk about pricing talk about uh the assets pictures features code just everything node no no dealer no dealer uh seminar this time around we are going to be given some info probably an hour before the public reveal but it's going to be a call for pricing thing again uh there's going to be 500 games globally so typically you know 250 here 250 overseas maybe 300 here 200 but 500 games globally and we know that Stern is actually they've already advertised that part of their Insider program that paid program they're going to be selling a handful direct so that's interesting because if it is call for pricing we thought we'd fall into this whole Elvira House of horse 40th anniversary where the dealer sets the price we will know as dealers our our cost on these things prior to launching but I don't I don't think dealers are going to see this until the public sees it so interesting now I I'm assuming then because of what you've just said about the information may be coming out an hour or so before the public reveal that you don't know what they're going to list on their website Stern you can start selling direct they're going to have a they're going to have a publicly known price exactly so we don't know so it makes it makes it kind of tricky for us because once these go on sale we don't have pictures we don't have information we don't have we don't even know what this product is we don't know how much to price it for so at the reveal bam it's going to be crazy because you get phone calls coming in I want this game how much is it how much is it this guy's got it for this much I'm trying to update the website I'm trying to inform our customers it'll be a messy Tuesday but it's a good problem to good problem to have the only difference being if they are selling a handful direct that almost suggests to me that there is going to be a suggested pricing yeah you know maybe they don't I I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm I'm going to go ahead and why not both it okay so uh so they won't officially give you a suggested pricing but there will be pressure uh to tie Things based upon what their website price is like indirect pressure so so yeah more likely yeah what's going to happen here's what I think that I think they're gonna they're not gonna give you a you you'll know your expense they're not going to give you the set price kind of like the Elvira but since they're selling directly the public almost immediately is gonna say this is how much Stern says it should be sold for because that's how much they're selling it for on the website and all distros will be compared to that value I thought so as well but then we do have someone we're friends with that is in the industry as well and they remember they messaged us suggesting another possible situation that may occur and that made sense too they said well this might be kind of the good nature of you know if they're only going to throw out let's say 10 let's say 5 to 15 Direct that's not really anything they'll create even more demand for it because if it does go quick at let's say five thousand below what dealers then start advertising for if it goes that quick which it probably will even if it is a lower number he said he don't think that really is a guaranteed effect on establishing a price my thought is I don't know if it necessarily here's what I think I think the 500 still sell out really no matter what happens with the pricing but what I think it does is it gives people a context a number that they're going to compare it to that might not prohibit that like let's say Stern let's say Stern sells it for twenty thousand okay and then let's say a lot of the distributor those 10 or 15 games go for the 20 and a lot of Distributors kind of Benchmark more like 25 000 which I've seen a lot of people kind of speculating the speculation I'm here yeah yeah uh I mean it'll just be it again it's more impactful like where everyone like if coin Taker and flipping out and tilt amusements are all different that's more interesting that's going to be more discussion right than otherwise but but of course as long as people know well Stern sold it for twenty thousand so you know and Stern made money so you know no the Destroyers are making another 5 000 just pure profit on top of it and there might be some grousing oh that's a showing of hands kind of thing right right so so that sort of a thing is is is there will be they might still sell it under what or do you think Stern reaches this puts a lot of power on on them as well because before they didn't have to get their hands dirty really hmm no I do not like do I think they sell for 35 000 and then the distress come in under what Stern directs prices I do not yes I think no it is but I think if if I were a distributor I would want to know what Stern's selling at and I wouldn't be planning to sell under it sure because I think Stern's gonna I think they're all gonna sell out so that's kind of my I I think that Stern sets the floor whether they mean to or not I think they end up saying the floor it would be very interesting um let's say well let's use you as an example let's say that they did say 35 000 and let's say flipping out it's like well with my my price of the game is that I have to pay to buy it I could still sell these for 30 000 and still make decent money and you do and you instantly sell them out but like but what does it gets you like you were probably going to sell them all out at 35 too so why would you do it um I mean like you you could say well I bought Goodwill great but do you like do you need that level like uh does it help you sell Venoms later I don't you see I don't see how that sort of goods it's a good discussion Dennis and listening because it goes It goes back to what we discussed whenever uh whenever Elvira came out and whenever we are we're in the thick of the pandemic at the thick of uh the highest points that pinball pricing has ever seen where you would see every new le that comes out regardless of the title you would see a handful of dealers go above the MSRP or do an auction system or do so and a lot of what we said initially was yeah the big dealers are going to do right by the people because they have the most to lose kind of thing so they're not going to take these risks for the big over MSRP and my argument initially was that but then I came around listener and I said after just gauging the behavioral patterns of everybody in this industry and the buying patterns and such people have very short memories for [ __ ] that they really want so I don't think it hurts anybody I don't think it hurts a dealer when he jacked up the prices you know 5 000 more to sell them because if that dealer even if they're a shyster if that dealer still has the game you want you'll deal with him I don't think people's buying Integrity sadly I just don't think it permeates over time like I just sad but true so I don't I don't know then again look what happened to Scooby-Doo didn't sell out because of the the uh because the bad feelings in the tummies of buyers of Halloween and Ultraman so maybe it does matter in the future um I you know we can you know in terms of the future that that'll be an interesting you know we can have a discussion on that about because I do think the aspects of the industry are changing but but I mean again if it's all within the realm of like whatever it's different it's what is what I guess I'm poorly articulating so if Stern like is Stern is a CERN is the manufacturer right people are gonna because they normally provide an MSRP so even if there isn't an MSRP if they are selling a game at a certain price it automatically becomes the MSRP in the minds of the public and the public will know because of the internet sure so even if the pricing was only offered for those that were in The Insider thing that people are going to go on pin side they're going to post what the price was it's gonna be it's gonna come out that day and so given that if any distributor were to sell under that Under The Unofficial MSRP what is the advantage to it unless they were worried that they were going to be sitting on these games there's see if there were a lot like this was an infinite number of 60th anniversaries oh sure selling under 5 000 under MSRP and being allowed to because it's not you know it doesn't violate your your floors or anything that that might have logic but at 500 count of the most popular designer in the history of pinball of a pretty popular theme uh yeah I just that's my that's my point if you were to sell like five percent under the stern listed price uh especially if none of the other Distributors were doing that's not going to help you move Toy Story fours in your inventory that's what I'm saying it's not it doesn't buy you anything and I think there's still going to be some people that are going to be prickly at the perception of dealers that go over that Stern price too I really do sure and I and that will be where where you had noticed you know over the last couple of years how they were able to go over and they're still selling the games and stuff that in terms of how things are going to happen moving forward people want what they want but now that it's not as tight as it up this game aside of course but now that things are loosening now that the supply chains are opening now that not everyone is just buying everything that's out there because they're desperate to get anything that's pinball that's functional some of those some of those chickens are going to come home that's going to be a thorn and that could be the thorn in the Paul the missing scale and smog's armor yes I like Tony's smash smog yeah he does it he's got a lower voice than me so it's a pretty good one so we had a we had a request for that on the new equipment so yeah I think that uh it'll be interesting to see how this thing rolls out I still want one I what what would you be surprised if this damn thing sold for 35 40 000 as a norm as a norm yes yeah I think I would be I would too but wow what a talking point that would be great 500 is is limited obviously but it's not uh this is pinball right it's not I mean again uh and I I hate because I don't want to bore everyone but I hate cross-contaminating my hobbies all the time but again in in wrist watches 500 would be seen as an okay Le size it wouldn't be seen as ridiculous like it's it's seen as the same count but but you know if the brand normally sells for yup ten to fifteen thousand dollars and you're saying that this one all of a sudden like we wouldn't see that sort of markup in that hobby from a like Seiko doesn't Mark up like that so so yeah I think I really 30 to 35 new inbox would really surprise me quite frankly because I there's not other than its limited nature there's not a good argument for it being that high I don't think it's going to have that much more stuff in it and again this is only about half the normal Le run yeah so normally what I would do is I would just take the current Le price and double it and I'd say that's what it should be okay I see that's pretty simple man heuristic there yeah okay I want to do this little exercise and then we're going to move on because I want to tell these people what's coming in the second half production wise you promised this on the last episode but just a little exercise here this is kind of fun we all know how great Godzilla is keep Elwyn came right I would I would argue that the IP is not even as strong as James Bond no it's not what if hypothetically we got to re go back in time and we get to release Godzilla again but they only released 500 total units that's it no Pros no pre there's 500 Les of Godzilla that's it do you think that it goes that game goes for more than 25 000 because I do at 500 units uh I knowing what you know now it's the greatest of all time on Pandora right so so knowing that yes however the the catch there is if there were only ever 500 most people wouldn't actually have the hands-on experience to know that it was the greatest game yes very much so so yes hindsight of course so that's so that's the catch is the problem is we all know because there's so many out there how great of a game Godzilla is so yes knowing that I do believe it would go for over 25 000 if there were only 500 how high do you think it'd go knowing what we all know now with Godzilla 500 units only and maybe 250 oversees 250 a domestic forty thousand no I don't I mean I don't I don't know we never saw like with the ultra Collective things of like Big Bang Bar and stuff they weren't going that high and I I get it it's greatest gameplay of all time but a lot of you gotta remember our little Venn diagram right A lot of people that can truly enjoy the the game is great they're still up uh there's still a price value per play that becomes ridiculous at some points like this it's the greatest game ever but it's also it's not forty thousand dollars we're getting stupid now yeah it seems like with Batman super Le with all of these just super rare stuff 30 000 is kind of that kind of that ceiling I just wondered if because we know Godzilla arguably is the greatest game of all time does it break through that ceiling that we've seen stuff you know the the CE Pirates kind of at its Heyday Peak right around 30. do we break that 30 000 it'd be very interesting maybe it pops a pot could with as low as account as you've given it and if it had as much hype and popularity as it currently does yeah I think maybe I would say I think it could break 30 I don't think it breaks 40. do you think it breaks 40 with 100 units total yeah probably see how this boy it's very no no numbers matter numbers numbers very much matter so um uh yeah if you the more the rarer you make it the more you can pump it up because this regardless of how my your your overlaps in your little Venn diagram are you need less and less people involved to control the the value of it but because you're getting to the point where it's only a handful of buyers that are willing to to play in that space I mean let's say think about it as a as a normal not not as a distro but as a normal human being if you were let's say you had forty thousand dollars for a pinball collection do you just buy one game I don't think I could no see that's where that's a lot of people are going to be in that but because even if they could afford it it's like well I can own one game or I can own four ten thousand dollar games or I can own eight five thousand dollars you see you know what's crazy the one the one category that would make me think twice to spread myself that thin would be seen I I mean you really would because there's only a finite amount of pinball machines that I could own I like having nice things I like displaying my preferences on things collectibility and stuff like that theme really holds a really strong place for me on on collectibility type of things so sure every hobbyist is going to approach the question differently so I mean once we're getting to that volume of games and that price point I mean how many of them are going to be played because you start being the the diaper wiper they're going to be the diaper wipers are going to scoop these but then again these games are for show they're for Flex uh they're visual spectacle I don't use I should see though at a limited run of 100 of an elwin's best I could see locations then start to say now we've got a Dr this is a this is a specific draw for our location because no Loca not many locations around the country are going to have this for General play for use of big competitions if those these locations want these big Whopper Farm kind of thing I think then you get some of these big locations that say Hey this is a this is an actual entertainment draw for us uh to put us on the map so maybe uh maybe some really large like I could see like Pinball Hall of Fame like they did with pinball circus kind of going for that logic but I honestly I don't think having a forty thousand dollar game gets you enough additional foot traffic to Warrant the I think most of them they had the game and they got that high would probably sell it to just buy multiple more games and make more coin drop I don't I just don't think it's enough of a I see the psychology of it I actually don't think enough people will travel travel to just experience like they'll do that and how much are they going to drop in at 20 bucks and then they'll never come back I mean it's I I these are the and these are these are functions and such it's just it's amazing how these discussions can have some weight whenever we're dealing with the biggest manufacturer and arguably the best designer I mean you know the the ceiling goes up from there because you give me a Back to the Future that is a phenomenal maybe give me a Back to the Future that's a top 20 game from a consensus standpoint review-wise fifty thousand dollars is I would find a way to own that game for 50. yeah you would but but most but I would not no again and I think more people in the hobby are like me than are like you 100 yes no and I don't mean like personality-wise when it comes to that dollar amount when it comes to that level of of into pinball like it's just I've never I mean I've I don't think my entire collection is worth fifty thousand so it would be it would be extremely it would be extremely hard for me to to you know want my collection to be worth that much and then to say it's all in one game I mean I wouldn't have anything else I just I couldn't rationalize it I you know because I could logic myself saying well if I sell this and this and this and this I could get it and it's still the same amount of money into the hobby but it's like okay and I'm gonna go downstairs and play my one game like I remember when I had my one game we'll see because the reason why I have more now we'll see in a couple days how high this thing can go or how low this thing can go whether it's going to be certified hit or whether this is going to be this is going to be the one game that Elwyn falls on the sword for if this is his no even if it's bad again it's so rare I just don't think it it makes much of an impact on his on his reputation if it's bad when it comes to James off we're talking about James Bond a lot of people are going for the premium version and believe it or not I didn't think these things would start shipping until January once they come back from their little Hiatus their production Hiatus no there were some that actually left the facility in 2022 we were able to uh we've got some in route right now some Bond premiums that have shipped a good amount of them too so first run is Among Us of James Bond premium before the first of the year that's it's pretty exciting for a lot of people so it is coming and I did hear that this 0.8 code update was a huge help all right okay I did hear that I have not played it myself though so I can't I don't know but I heard it was it was girthy quite girthy well again uh going back to that Joel interview with with George Gomez Gomez did confirm on that interview that is the licenser that approvals are holding that which had been my speculation for a while I couldn't fathom that they weren't as far along in the I mean the code was bad exactly like not not badly developed it's so bare and I'm like there's no way they're this far behind especially since they skipped a Cornerstone uh it has to be something else holding it up and and yeah and so yes it's the license right trying to approve all those visual assets it's a mess and now looking at the production schedule we're going to give you here exclusively on the pinball show the second half of production schedule timeline for Stern Pinball as a reminder these are all tentative schedules they change whenever they need to change so it's just a general guideline as to where we're going to be going this year we talked last episode 119 on what stern was going to be developing producing January 2023 through June of 2023 so let's start really quick before we jump into July let's start with looking at our January schedule again January schedule does have some Bond premiums on there so we're going to see some Bond premiums continue to roll out once they come back from their Hiatus and then it says James Bond's Pro so we may get some pros but they fulfilled a lot of them so we'll see I still think there could be a window for the 60th anniversary to be built in January February okay I still think it could happen uh so we'll see we'll see there we'll have some updates likely the next day or two as to when they're going to build these 60th anniversaries but keep that in mind let's jump to July July the plans are to re-run Avengers I haven't seen Avengers producing quite some time we're going to see the pro and premium jump back on the production line in July and as of right now that's the only thing on July schedule interesting hmm summer July okay all right we'll keep that we'll keep that in mind as we jump into August the production schedule storm pinball for August 2023 includes the likes of they've had to sell to a lot of these games Star Wars Pro and premium again we didn't get we're not going to get any for the first six months of 2023 but we're going to get it for seven months we're going to get some more in August that's the license I guess just license alone sells very well um people were speculating during the last run in november-ish october-ish that maybe the license was done nope there's plans to make them in August September schedule currently is blank oh hmm I wonder what that means I wonder what that means so interestingly Jurassic Park Pros do not see a run like their counterpart premiums in the first six months of 2023 remember the premiums are being built again in June but the pro is waiting until October but again that's the only thing in October so something feels like it's happening in September and it's going to be happening so much so that the premium may be rolling into October production right that's a second Cornerstone November comes along and we're going to see Godzilla premium get another run hallelujah we're also going to be we're also going to see made in November 2023 right around the holiday season Mandalorian Pro and premium again yeah and as a reminder those have not been made since last summer this past summer so they nearly go a year no they made a couple of them here recently but still that's eight eight nine ten months of no mandalorians dealers inventories are getting short on mandalorians so you're going to see that with the topper and everything you're gonna see that start heating up a little bit more December rolls around and we're gonna get uh there they are Deadpool hmm Deadpool Pro and premium you thought it wasn't going to make a appearance in 2023 and it hasn't all the way up till December December 2023 Deadpool Pro and premium so that little a little red bits you've got in your collection right now Dennis uh value is going to hold very strong do you think do you think that uh they're re they're running it in December it's like a it's like a dentist bump like that that me talking about the game they've been like we got to put another run on it because it's we got to it's gonna be so hype if not he's gonna end up selling that thing for 20 grand again they're like if we've learned anything here at Stern Pinball it is we do not want Dennis to make money you know what I tell you what people get their refund checks back uh this year no Deadpool production until next December year from now that Deadpool premiums easily easily a 10 000 Plus game used easily noon box I think you could get closer to 12th isn't that that's nuts it's not in the Box anymore why not find a box anymore but just for figuring it's in the lineup now of note as we're looking the big bigger picture here of a 2023 production for Stern Pinball there are no current planned runs of Rush Pro or premium for the entirety of 2023. that's interesting that's surprising to me that is surprising I think it changes I really think that changes because Rush has sat there uh this summer Russia sat in inventory they sat and we reported to stirring that they were sitting and then once code became more complete on that thing now they're gone and they're gone quick so there are harder they're a harder title to get in dealers still have them but those things aren't going to be sitting like a Led Zeppelin will or like a you know what or Like a Star Wars Star Wars are gonna sit Rush will not so yeah no rushes on the Slate and then looking through all their other produced games everything's getting a run in 2023 with the exception of Rush other things to note Godzilla premium right now I'm only scheduled for February and November I don't think that that will be true I think they would they will run that uh one or two additional times they're gonna have yeah they're gonna yeah if they have the parts elvirol and gets that one yearly run as of right now they could probably run uh they could probably run Jurassic Park twice next year that would be really good Deadpools they could run several times that would be really good that's still a hot iron maidens they could probably run that twice as well so again the back orders stay high and these catalog games stay desirable both on the primary and secondary Market so there's your update from Stern Pinball what what do you think of 2023 what are we going to see Stern Pinball we've talked about this we think there's going to be two cornerstones I think there's going to be some kind of little mystery happening at some point from Stern Pinball they got something in their sleeve for 2023 I really do think that and then do we get do we get anything else or is it just going to be two cornerstones is it going to be Foo Fighters is it going to be Jack danger we did hear from George Gomez on The Flipping Out stream that Jack danger and Daniel are going to be working together on a Cornerstone as are Dwight Sullivan and Brian Eddy on a Cornerstone those are our two cornerstones this year do we see a Foo Fighters from the danger crew and a Venom from the Eddy crew do we see any other games I actually I agree with that still I've seen some people starting to doubt the rumored lineup stuff like uh I know again based off that interview as you noted there was the talk about uh George mentioned that Jack was going in a different direction than what Stern's used to so I've seen people starting to second guess rumor some stuff and I I and I just I mean I agree with what George said I think people are reading too much into it Foo Fighters is what I mean they've covered several genres of music but like grunge and post grunge is something that they're known for which it's a new Direction Stern hasn't done that style of music before so I think he's still doing Foo Fighters and I do think it's 2023 and I still think Venom is in the works and I do think that's Eddie's game and I think that's 2023. so those are the two cornerstones I will disagree with you about the something special oh I'm gonna lean into a live stream I saw with Mr Craig Bobby even though he couldn't be here with us today to provide the news with the with the thought of kapow and back to the future but being 2025. so with that out further than than 2023 I think that it's just the two cornerstones on the rest of the time is spent catching up on Godzilla no remember George Gomez kind of talking about stranger things and oh yeah no they're my oh you you mean okay I I forgot about that you know what I'll be there news last season the stranger things is going to happen around the summer I he said I think it works at all if it did happen again um went there um I I think running stranger things again would be very smart for stern to do but one last run but it wouldn't have to happen this year I last season it's not going to be as irrelevant I I know but the game itself has grown its popularity given where the code is obviously the Game of Thrones right now is a vault probably not I mean maybe a pro but but during their last season you probably wouldn't yeah I'm just saying yeah their last game of thrones last season oh no it was great I was the only one who liked it it's fine no it's not it was bad no it wasn't what did you want to happen that that makes sense that's all makes sense I don't know what Jon Snow ended up doing Khaleesi and I'm Gonna Change Personalities in the last episode no she was tired of all this [ __ ] she keeps getting she finally said you know what [ __ ] these people that was my it was a perfect impression of Khaleesi like Khaleesi I'm just gonna change personalities God I can relate to her burn it off the ground Knives Out glass so yeah no I could I could yeah I could see that happening but um okay I don't know I mean it's like uh I mean I guess Godzilla is kind of Evergreen so it's a I just there's so many people that are waiting and with orders and I still you know how I am I don't believe in people having to wait like a year for games I think it's a bad bad look for any company that allows it and and be it on purpose or or not and clearly I I think clearly Stern never expected this sort of c-tier license of Godzilla to be this popular but it is and I think they need to try and satisfy that as quickly as they can and just skipping a Cornerstone and then filling it with like a vault style thing I think that can work but um as long as it's not too big of a run because they really need to be throwing more premium Godzilla's on the line yeah that's what I think that's a good take that's a good take I'm I'm Gonna Groove I'll say and that has been part one of episode 120 of the pinball show make sure to check out part two of your favorite pinball podcast right now [Music] [Applause]
high · Zach and Dennis both agree 500 units will sell out quickly
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product_launch: James Bond 60th Anniversary global allocation: 500 units total, historically split roughly 250 US/250 overseas or 300 US/200 overseas
high · Zach provides typical allocation pattern
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content_signal: The Pinball Show Episode 120 is a three-part episode covering Stern updates, Bond reveal, and pinball awards; recorded on New Year's Day 2023
high · Hosts discuss episode structure and recording context
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supply_chain_signal: FedEx delivery of Deadpool Premium pinball resulted in delivery incident where driver backed pallet jack into vehicle and injured leg
high · Detailed anecdote about delivery accident
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sentiment_shift: Discussion of historical dealer pricing practices during pandemic peak pricing; hosts debate whether consumers have memory of dealer pricing abuse or if it affects future purchases
medium · Lengthy discussion about Scooby-Doo sales decline potentially linked to negative community sentiment from prior pricing
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design_philosophy: Speculation that Seth Davis may restructure Stern design teams from flexible project-by-project to fixed-team assignments, contrasting with Gary Stern's historical approach
low · Dennis theorizes potential organizational changes under new CEO but acknowledges it's hypothetical
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industry_signal: Incoming CEO Seth Davis may make structural decisions and personnel changes that reflect his management philosophy, with possibility of removing or reassigning individuals
medium · Dennis discusses typical CEO-board dynamics and potential for new leadership to reshape culture