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Episode 875: "Stern Places Ads For Stern Inside Stern"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·20m 36s·analyzed·Nov 16, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Stern's in-game ads spark backlash; JJP neglects software; Jaws delayed to early 2024.

Summary

Kaneda discusses Twippies award season reforms (new content creator categories), criticizes Stern's new in-game advertising as tone-deaf marketing while praising their 22-game code update rollout, speculates on Stranger Things and Jaws release timelines, analyzes Jersey Jack's failure to update Guns N' Roses and Elton John despite customer feedback, comments on Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon backbox damage incident and Pulp Fiction's red-hot secondary market demand, and laments that expanding pinball accessibility will only inflate prices and hurt existing collectors.

Key Claims

  • Stern updated 22 games simultaneously with significant code improvements

    high confidence · Kaneda, discussing Stern's code update strategy

  • Stranger Things Premium editions are not on the production line yet and might be delayed until January due to parts availability

    medium confidence · Kaneda, speculating on production delays

  • Jaws Pinball might be revealed in January 2024 with production line start in February and broader availability March-April

    medium confidence · Kaneda, predicting release timeline based on Stern's typical rollout patterns

  • Jersey Jack has not released any code updates for Guns N' Roses in three years despite significant customer feedback

    high confidence · Kaneda, emphasizing JJP's software neglect compared to Stern

  • Pulp Fiction LE machines have zero listings on the Pinside Marketplace; 1,250+ people have deposits waiting

    high confidence · Kaneda, citing secondary market data

  • Jack Guarneri invented the limited edition model in Stern pinball, introducing platinum editions and signature machines in the early 2000s

    high confidence · Kaneda, providing industry history on LE origins

  • David Thiel was recently approached by Jersey Jack for a title but scheduling conflicts prevented his participation

    medium confidence · Kaneda, citing Thiel's public statement

  • Elton John LE machines are not selling well; only CEs are moving; LE prices will drop below Guns N' Roses values unless licensing issues prevent reprints

    medium confidence · Kaneda, reporting distributor conversations and secondary market trends

Notable Quotes

  • “Would you rather have a code update that features an advertisement for the company you've supported that you can turn off in 30 seconds? Or would you rather have a Jersey Jack game and never get a code update in years?”

    Kaneda@ 3:15 — Sums up the core tension between Stern's aggressive updates with a misstep versus JJP's software abandonment

  • “I think when we see stuff like this, I think it telegraphs that Stern pinball has lost the narrative a little bit. It almost feels like they don't even understand the category they're in.”

    Kaneda@ 4:27 — Critiques Stern's marketing judgment and brand disconnect despite technical investment

  • “Every single person who owns a Guns and Roses, there is a plethora of feedback on how Jersey Jack, within the existing game, could make the game so much more enjoyable for those people who own the machine and they've done absolutely nothing in three years.”

    Kaneda@ 6:24 — Highlights the contrast between Stern's software dedication and JJP's neglect of post-launch support

  • “I still think a Stern Bomb is like $4,500 and we're literally spending $13,000 on something that costs them $3,500, but at least they go the distance with their games.”

    Kaneda@ 6:48 — Acknowledges pricing criticism while crediting Stern's long-term commitment to code quality

  • “It's not Elton John at 1,000 units for $15,000... The moment you unbox this game, you're going to lose $3,000.”

    Kaneda@ 17:11 — Criticizes the Elton John LE pricing strategy and predicts secondary market collapse

  • “The man who invented limited edition versions of machines... Jack Guarneri... introduced like making a limited version of a game that was different, that had a different color armor, that had signatures on the game.”

    Kaneda@ 13:29 — Attributes LE model innovation to Jack Guarneri; frames Elton John LE as betraying that legacy

Entities

KanedapersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyChicago Gaming CompanycompanyThis Week in Pinball (Kineticist)organizationColinpersonJack Guarneriperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Chicago Gaming Cactus Canyon LE shipped with interior backbox damage that factory attempted to conceal with black marker; customer had to file ticket for replacement

    high · Kaneda: 'the back box was all damaged on the inside, which means it did not happen during shipping. And he noticed that CGC used a black Sharpie marker to color where the damage occurred.'

  • ?

    code_update: Stern released in-game advertisements for Stern games as default-on feature in code updates; community backlash for tone-deaf marketing and invasion of home collector experience

    high · Kaneda: 'should Stern have made this the default setting of every single code update where it puts these advertisements in the attract mode of the game? Probably not.'

  • ?

    code_update: Stern simultaneously released significant code updates across 22 games; Kaneda praises software investment and responsiveness to player feedback (e.g., Elvira iterations)

    high · Kaneda: 'Stern Pinball updating 22 freaking games at once. Holy holidays, Stern Pinball. What a move by this company.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Elton John LE at 1,000 units/$15,000 price point failing to move on secondary market; CEs selling steady but LEs losing value; Kaneda predicts decline below Guns N' Roses secondary pricing

    high · Kaneda: 'nobody's buying the LE again. And everybody knows the moment you unbox this game... you're going to lose $3,000.'

  • $

    market_signal: Pulp Fiction LE showing extreme scarcity on Pinside (zero listings) with 1,250+ people on deposit waiting lists; strong secondary market FOMO indicates correct pricing and demand exceeding supply

Topics

Twippies Awards - Category Expansion & Community SentimentprimaryStern Pinball - In-Game Advertising & Code Update StrategyprimaryJersey Jack Pinball - Software Support & Secondary Market PerformanceprimaryProduction Timelines & Supply Chain (Stranger Things, Jaws, Pulp Fiction)primaryLimited Edition Pricing & Secondary Market DynamicssecondaryDeep Root Pinball Collapse & Financial MisconductsecondaryCode Quality & Designer Legacies (Lyman Sheets, David Thiel)secondaryIndustry Growth vs. Collector Economics & FOMOsecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.35)— Kaneda expresses frustration with Stern's advertising misstep and JJP's software abandonment, tempered by praise for Stern's technical investment and code updates. Reconciliatory tone toward community conflict (Colin/Twippies). Pessimistic about industry expansion and secondary market health. Generally critical of manufacturer decisions while acknowledging incremental improvements.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.062

0:00
You're a rich girl, and you're going too far, cause you know it don't matter anyway. You can rely on the old man's money, you can rely on the old man's money. It's a bitch girl, and it's going too far, cause you know it don't matter anyway. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said. Welcome everybody to Canada's Pinball Podcast. Happy Wednesday everybody. I'm super excited to do a show right now. We're going to talk about the Twippies. We're going to talk about Stern Pinball advertising, Stern Pinball inside, Stern Pinball machines.
0:34
We're going to talk about Elton John a little bit. We're going to talk about Chicago Gaming Company. We're going to talk about what's going on in the pinball world. Are we going to throw this game off of the roof of TNT Amusements? I don't know. It's at $1,000. We got $4,000 to go, everybody. So let's start out on this episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast first by saying that Twippy season has begun. We got the email from This Week in Pinball, and it's changed a little bit this year. So finally, they took some of my advice. I've been saying this like all year.
1:05
They should start a category for Best New Pinball Content Creator. Now look, they extended it to Best New Pinball Podcast, Best New Pinball Streamer, Best New Pinball YouTube Channel, and maybe even like Best New Pinball Website. It's too many. They should have just made it one simple thing. But I am glad they're doing this because think about it. If you're new to pinball and you want to start a media channel and you want to do something in the content space, it's really hard to uproot people who have been doing it for like a decade.
1:36
So look, do I still think we're going to win favorite pinball podcast? I hope so. And I hope you have your vote. But when it comes to like best new pinball podcast, it opens the door for people like Don and other people out there who have really jumped into the ring. They're brand new. And we both know they don't really have a chance of beating someone with a fan base like Kaneda's. But you got to start somewhere. You got to start somewhere. And I like this move because now every single year it will incentivize new people to make pinball content. And that is a good thing.

  • “I sent a note to Don. I unblocked Colin from my Facebook page because I do believe that life is too short to hold on to any of these grudges and any of this anger and pinball.”

    Kaneda@ 2:45 — Public reconciliation gesture; signals shift in community dynamics around Twippies/This Week in Pinball tensions

  • “The only thing that can put a pinball company out of business is the company itself making boneheaded moves.”

    Kaneda@ 18:44 — Philosophical observation that pinball's resilience depends on industry self-sabotage prevention

    • David Thiel
    person
    Lyman Sheetsperson
    Donperson
    Steve Bowdenperson
    Robert Muellerperson
    Willperson
    Franchiperson
    Zombie Yetiperson
    Jaws Pinballgame
    Stranger Things Premiumgame
    Godzillagame
    Elvira Blood Kiss Editiongame
    Pulp Fictiongame
    Elton Johngame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Home Pin Spinal Tapgame
    Cactus Canyon LEgame
    Dutch Pinball Museumorganization

    high · Kaneda: 'guess how many Pulp Fiction LEs are for sale if you wanted to buy one of those bad mofo editions of the game? Zero. There are zero for sale.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: David Thiel recently approached by Jersey Jack for a project but scheduling conflicts prevented participation; Thiel remains open to future JJP work despite history with Deep Root

    medium · Kaneda: 'David Thiel came out himself and said that Jersey Jack Pinball approached him recently on one of their recent titles. and because they couldn't sync up their schedules, he did not join the project'

  • ?

    product_concern: Jersey Jack has not released any code updates for Guns N' Roses in three years despite extensive customer feedback on rule and sound improvements

    high · Kaneda: 'Every single person who owns a Guns and Roses, there is a plethora of feedback on how Jersey Jack... could make the game so much more enjoyable for those people who own the machine and they've done absolutely nothing in three years.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Stranger Things Premium editions delayed; not yet on production line; possible January delay due to parts availability; Jaws expected January reveal, February production line, March-April distribution

    medium · Kaneda: 'I'm hearing that Stranger Things premiums are not on the line yet, and they might be delayed until January... if that is the case, do we think we're going to see Jaws Pinball in December of this year?'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Jack Guarneri credited as inventor of Stern pinball limited edition model; introduced platinum/signature editions (Monopoly Platinum, Elvis Gold, Austin Powers Gold, Terminator Platinum) in early 2000s

    high · Kaneda: 'Jack Guarnari... introduced like Monopoly Platinum Edition... Austin Powers Gold Edition in which they only made 10 machines... Terminator Platinum Edition where Steve Ritchie signed the machine.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Kaneda publicly reconciles with Colin (Kineticist/This Week in Pinball) by unblocking him on Facebook; signals shift toward reduced community drama and increased collaboration despite past tensions

    high · Kaneda: 'I sent a note to Don. I unblocked Colin from my Facebook page because I do believe that life is too short to hold on to any of these grudges and any of this anger and pinball.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Kaneda reports that Jurassic Park 30th and Elvira Blood Kiss Edition have not sold out; interprets as sign that Stern's FOMO strategy has cooled or failed; contrasts with Pulp Fiction's sustained scarcity

    medium · Kaneda: 'neither of those two games have sold out. I get happy when I see that. It means that Stern's FOMO attempts haven't really succeeded.'

  • ?

    community_signal: This Week in Pinball expanded Twippies categories to include separate Best New Pinball Podcast, Best New Pinball Streamer, Best New Pinball YouTube Channel, Best New Pinball Website; Kaneda recommended consolidation but supports initiative to encourage new creators

    high · Kaneda: 'they extended it to Best New Pinball Podcast, Best New Pinball Streamer, Best New Pinball YouTube Channel, and maybe even like Best New Pinball Website. It's too many.'

    • 2:07
    And I also was talking to Will over at This Week in Pinball. And I said, look, if you're going to do Best Pinball Podcaster, can I not give that award to whoever wins it? Considering the fact that I've won it for six years in a row, maybe seven years in a row. And he did let me know they are considering letting the winner of the category for favorite give the award to the newcomer in the category. Now, look, it's not looking good for me because now that Colin and the Kineticists and This Week in Pinball have combined forces and we know how Colin feels about Kaneda and we also
    2:41
    know how Kaneda feels about Colin. But here's what I'm going to tell you right now, ladies and gentlemen. I sent a note to Don. I unblocked Colin from my Facebook page because I do believe that life is too short to hold on to any of these grudges and any of this anger and pinball. And I think you have more fun and I have more fun when everyone's just doing their thing. And it's more fun when everyone's hanging out on each other's channels and we're just talking about pinball. All right, so let's talk about pinball. Let's talk about this Stern code update, which put an advertisement for Stern games inside every single one of these games. I want to ask each and every one of you a question.
    3:15
    Would you rather have a code update that features an advertisement for the company you've supported that you can turn off in 30 seconds? Or would you rather have a Jersey Jack game and never get a code update in years? And that's it, people. I mean, look, I know people are like really upset about this thing. And yes, should Stern have made this the default setting of every single code update where it puts these advertisements in the attract mode of the game? Probably not. I think it was a silly thing to make a default in each code.
    3:46
    I think they should have made it so you turn it on because really only operators are going to use this thing. It's also really weird. Like nobody walks up to a pinball machine in a bar or on location and is like, you know what? I really wasn't thinking of spending $6,000 to $13,000 until I saw this really cheesy advertisement for another pinball machine. Like I just don't understand the marketing behind it. And I get that the Bally Williams games used to do this. they would do short little like teasers for other games coming out by Bally Williams.
    4:16
    But man, this like Stern video is so corny, like the family like leaning over a machine all cheering. Nobody plays pinball like that. And that's why I think there's somewhat of a reaction to this thing because I really do think when we see stuff like this, I think it telegraphs that Stern pinball has lost the narrative a little bit. It almost feels like they don't even understand the category they're in. You know what I'm saying? why even put this into the code? Who is this going to entice to buy a new game? And it's almost like they've got a marketing department that doesn't even know what to do. And they don't even know
    4:49
    who they're talking to. I would love to sit down with Stern and say, what do you think this little advertisement is going to do? Who is it going to incentivize? And who are you even trying to reach Because it really makes no sense Because if you on location you not even going to be able to hear the audio on this advertisement And then you got these like thousands and thousands and thousands of home collectors who don want you to stick an advertisement for Stern Pinball into their Stern Pinball machine And they really should have just started out by giving the owners the choice to turn it on.
    5:23
    And that's that. No one's going to talk about this thing like a day from now. But let's talk about the good news. Stern Pinball updating 22 freaking games at once. Holy holidays, Stern Pinball. What a move by this company. And some of these games got real significant code updates, which is awesome. And the other thing, you know, I was popping around the Elvira thread and Stern Pinball, what I like about them is they listen to the feedback. Like they made some changes on the previous Elvira code and then they went and they heard
    5:54
    the feedback and they made other adjustments. I really do get the sense that Stern Pinball is really trying hard to make each and every one of these games as good as they can possibly make them. And Stern has invested so heavily in the software department. And we know this, like if you can really nail the software on a game, you can give people something that they will hold on to forever. You know, some games never get the software treatment they deserve. And then I think about the Jersey Jack owners and they get nothing,
    6:24
    nothing, absolutely nothing. Every single person who owns a Guns and Roses, there is a plethora of feedback on how Jersey Jack, within the existing game, could make the game so much more enjoyable for those people who own the machine and they've done absolutely nothing in three years. You know, that's just it. As much as I still feel we're getting ripped off by Stern Pinball, I really do. I still think a Stern Bomb is like $4,500 and we're literally spending $13,000 on something
    6:55
    that costs them $3,500, but at least they go the distance with their games. At least they have teams of software engineers that are trying to make these games amazing. And I just don't get that sense that that is happening over at Jersey Jack Pinball. All right, so what else is happening over at Stern? So I'm hearing that Stranger Things premiums are not on the line yet, and they might be delayed until January. I don't have full confirmation on that, but I heard they might be waiting on parts. And so if that is the case, do we think we're going to see Jaws Pinball in December of this year?
    7:29
    I'm starting to think Jaws might be early 2024. I think it might be a January reveal. Reveal it in January, get it on the line in February, and then have it everywhere in March and April, going into the spring and summer. Stern knows that whenever they launch this game, it's gonna be a sales phenomenon. I really do believe it is. I think the last couple of years across the board, across the entire industry, there really hasn't been something that's really won people over the way Godzilla did.
    8:01
    And look, here we go. The guy who did Godzilla is gonna do Jaws. Now look, we know Jaws is not gonna have the assets the way Godzilla did, and that's gonna be the big question mark on this game. It actually makes me happy though to see that Jurassic Park 30th and Elvira the Blood Kiss Edition, neither of those two games have sold out. I get happy when I see that. It means that Stern's FOMO attempts haven't really succeeded. If I were a betting man, I bet they sold more Elviras than Jurassic Park for two reasons.
    8:33
    I think the Elvira looks better. And the other reason is this. I think Elvira is a better game. I really do. I've been in both threads and I hear nothing but good things about Elvira. If there's one game I'm really curious to play and get into the code and understand what Lyman was going for, it's Elvira. It is one of these games I've never really put a lot of time on an Elvira machine. But man, I know Lyman Sheets was the best coder in the history of pinball. I saw what he did with Batman 66.
    9:05
    And I can only imagine what a game like Elvira must be like because Elvira is a much better shooting game than Batman. It's got a... I think it's got better mechanisms than Batman. I don't think the theme is as strong as Batman. I mean, Batman is Batman, people. and it's a much stronger property than Elvira. But man, Elvira is not a game that's without assets. It's got a ton of assets and the way they arrange the assets in Elvira is super cool. It's really hard being an outsider looking into the Elvira fans and the owners
    9:37
    because I have no idea what they're talking about when they talk about these different modes that are based on these cheesy movies. I have no idea what they're talking about. It's a lot easier to talk about, oh, you battle Mr. Freeze and then that freezes the timer when you get into future modes and then you get into Bat-Toozy mode and then all the villains escape. Like I have no idea the context of what's happening in Elvira. But I want to find out one day. If there's anyone in the New York City area that has an Elvira machine, I would love to swing by and just spend like a few hours playing the game
    10:09
    and understanding the rules. All right what else is happening in the world of pinball The game that nobody ordered Spinal Tap is now shipping to its distributors Remember this game It was like revealed a year ago and now Home Pin Spinal Tap is making its way to customers and to distributors. I'm curious to see who would actually buy this game, let alone unbox it. You know, it's just surprising to me that Home Pin is still in business. I don't even know who's buying these games. All right, what else is going on in pinball? So we are now in mid-November.
    10:41
    There are no Pulp Fictions on the line. I'm in the CGC thread. I saw they sent to a customer a Cactus Canyon LE. Now, people who ordered this LE have waited almost two and a half years for the game. This guy unboxes his machine, and the back box was all damaged on the inside, which means it did not happen during shipping. And he noticed that CGC used a black Sharpie marker to color where the damage occurred. He quickly filed a ticket and they're going to send him a new back box.
    11:13
    But man, what a hassle. How annoyed would you be if you spent $10,000 on something and the company should have caught that at the factory? And we know they did catch it at the factory because they used a freaking black Sharpie marker to try to hide the damage. So look, I know CGC builds a great product, but this is also indicative of they might be rushing things now. They might be under some pressure. I don't know, just a really sloppy mistake. I also think that they've been making games that are a lot more complex than Pulp Fiction.
    11:46
    I think once Pulp Fiction gets on the line at CGC, these things are going to fly out the door. I think they're going to be able to make these things so easily. I think the line workers are going to be so excited they're making a single level game. And I really hope we start to see Pulp Fiction and Pulp Fiction LEs into hands of consumers by like March of 2024. I'll tell you this, the game is still red hot. If you go on the Pinside Marketplace, guess how many Pulp Fiction LEs are for sale if you wanted to buy one of those bad mofo editions of the game?
    12:16
    Zero. There are zero for sale. There's only one guy that's willing to trade for a big Lebowski, which is easily a $14,000 game or more. So this guy is trying to make a $4,000 profit. So he's not going to get that right now. But it just goes to show you the power of a theme like Pulp Fiction. You can't even freaking find one. And right now there's like, what was it? 1,250 people or a thousand people are sitting on deposits for one and nobody's even willing to flip it right now. You know, once the game comes out, I think the prices are going to get even higher.
    12:48
    And the only reason why Pulp Fiction will sell for more than it was new is that it was priced properly. Like we need a game where it's limited and it's the right price. Way more people want it than they priced it at. Way more people want this game than they're going to make. That's how it works. And that value should be passed on to the customer. Do you know who invented LEs and pinball? This might surprise you. The man who invented limited edition versions of machines. And I know like there was some stuff back in the day, like Adams Family Gold and stuff like that.
    13:20
    But the person who really introduced like Stern pinball to the LE model was no other than Jack Guarnari. So way back in the day, Jack Guarneri introduced like making a limited version of a game that was different, that had a different color armor, that had signatures on the game. He did it with Monopoly Platinum Edition. He was behind like Elvis Gold Edition, Austin Powers Gold Edition in which they only made 10 machines. He was behind Terminator Platinum Edition where Steve Ritchie signed the machine.
    13:52
    So Jack Guarnari himself is somewhat the father of limited edition machines, which even makes it sadder that he's kind of forgotten what it actually takes to make a game special and limited. It's not Elton John at 1,000 units for $15,000. I still can't get over every time I see Elton John, how beautiful the LE version of that game is. Franchi just killed it. I actually think Franchi might win for best art package in a pinball machine simply because of how beautiful Elton John looks.
    14:26
    It's going to be tough though because Zombie Yeti on Foo Fighters is absolutely amazing. And way more people own Foo Fighters and love Foo Fighters than will ever have owned and love Elton John. And it's a popular vote. So we'll see what happens. I mean, not to mention Yeti's work on Venom. But again, Venom is kind of like a sales dud. So there's not going to be nearly as many people that want to see Venom win anything when it comes to the Twippies. So Jack Guarneri, the father of the LE. All right, what else is going on in pinball?
    14:56
    So this is interesting news. This is actually really big news because David Thiel came out himself and said that Jersey Jack Pinball approached him recently on one of their recent titles. and because they couldn't sync up their schedules, he did not join the project, but he's open to rejoining Jersey Jack Pinball on future projects. I've heard some stories that are a little bit different than that, but look David always gonna keep the door open to working with everybody and why wouldn he He basically like a freelance person who will go work for anybody You know we never really asked how much money do you think David Thiel made at Deep Root Pinball
    15:36
    What was Robert Mueller paying this guy for like three years to work on sound packages for games that never came out? It's all sad now thinking about all those people because we now know that all that money was basically stolen from like old women to pay the salaries of like Steve Bowden and David Thiel and Robert's buying like apartments in Hawaii and he's going on vacations and he's dipping into all that money which was supposed to be invested in something else. It's terrible. The whole thing is terrible.
    16:06
    And if we throw any game off the roof of TNT amusements, it should be all those Raza machines. I'm sorry, like get rid of them, burn them. I don't know what Turner Pinball is doing holding on to those things. I was thinking too, like if David Thiel comes back to Jersey Jack, I was thinking about it, like you know how like there's code updates and you update the rules and other things in games. Wouldn't it be amazing if David went back and fixed all the crappy sound packages that have been on the recent Jersey Jack machines? Remove all the crappy slot machine music.
    16:37
    Maybe even re-record the voiceovers on games like Elton John. Is it too late to do that? I don't think so. Like, why is it too late to do that? Is it too late to fix the weak flippers on all of those previous games? Jersey Jack needs to make a move. They need to make a move. Like, Elton John is not selling well. I saw some distributor be like, oh yeah, it's selling nice and steady. No, it's not. I've talked to some of JJP's biggest distributors. The CEs are selling all right, but nobody's buying the LE again.
    17:09
    And everybody knows the moment you unbox this game, It's not that it's not going to be JJP's best shooting game. The moment you unbox it, you're going to lose $3,000. I mean, look, I would happily buy an Elton John LE one day for like eight grand. And that's what it's going to be. It's going to go lower than Guns N' Roses unless the Abbas family gets pissed off and says, hey, we're never making any more. That's the only thing that's going to keep the value in these games. All right, what else is going on in the pinball world? I want to say congratulations to the Dutch Pinball Museum.
    17:39
    They are expanding. their operation. They have more square footage, more games, more opportunities to bring in newbies into pinball to jack up the prices of pinball machines. No, it's always funny when we talk about pinball, like we're expanding this hobby as if it's something that is really needed, as if it's something that the world needs more of. We need to expand pinball. All we're going to do at this point, if we bring more people into pinball, we're just going to screw ourselves. These newbies are going to spend so much money because they don't realize what these machines should cost.
    18:14
    So I don't know. I think pinball is just fine. I don't really feel like we need to expand pinball. And there's no way the majority of young kids are going to get into pinball. This resurgence in pinball will not last forever. It'll never fully go away. I think there's always going to be a few pinball companies making games forever because there's just nothing you can replace it with. You can't digitize pinball. People stop listening to the radio. if they have a Walkman. People started streaming music and didn't need CDs, but nothing's gonna put pinball out of business. The only thing that can put a pinball company out of business
    18:47
    is the company itself making boneheaded moves. You know, speaking of boneheaded company moves, I saw the American Pinball Tour. We listened to David Fix. He said they wanted to make 300 galactic tank forces by the end of the year. Do you think they sold that many? He also says they have 200 Houdinis that have been ordered that they are making. Who in their right mind would order a new in-box Houdini when you can get one for like $2,000 off on Pinside today? It's so weird. Are there just people out there
    19:17
    that really value cardboard boxes? Oh, it's gonna be interesting. All right, everybody, look, have a great hump day. Have a great Wednesday. We will be back. I'm gonna do my Twippy episode where I predict which games I think are gonna win and who I think is gonna win in each category. The only thing with the Twippy is every year, You get excited and then you realize, oh, we're going to find out who won four months from now. It's well into 2024. And by the time we start awarding games like Foo Fighters and James Bond and Pulp Fiction, by the time we get around to it, Jaws is going to be out and everyone's just going to be talking about the new stuff
    19:52
    and not care about the old stuff. They've got to figure out a way to get this damn award show in January. Everybody, be good. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you for the support. We have reached a new milestone. We're at 655 subscribers who are paying money. And then there's like another 40 or so that are just hanging out for free. But just remember, everybody, they don't get to listen to any of this. So only if you really subscribe do you get Canada's Pinball Podcast. Peace out.
    20:33
    you