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Ep 61: Pinball Expo with Rob Berk

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·58m 47s·analyzed·Jun 12, 2021
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TL;DR

Rob Berk discusses Pinball Expo's 37-year evolution and 2021 expansion amid industry renaissance.

Summary

Rob Berk, founder and promoter of the Chicago Pinball Expo, discusses the show's 37-year history, its evolution from a 100-person inaugural event honoring pinball designers to a massive convention now occupying 66,000 square feet at the Renaissance Center in Schaumburg. He highlights the current pinball industry boom with 10+ active manufacturers (up from a single-manufacturer era), the virtual pivot during COVID that won a Twippy Award, and plans to showcase 400+ playable games including rare international titles from Spain and Italy, homebrew games, and classic Valley machines from the 1960s.

Key Claims

  • Pinball Expo is in its 37th year of operation

    high confidence · Rob Berk stated directly: 'Well, this is going to be our 37th year.'

  • Rob Berk's personal collection contains approximately 1,200 pinball machines

    high confidence · Rob Berk: 'he came back to me the following day. He said he called Roberto. Roberto is close as I can guess. You got about twelve hundred.'

  • The 2021 Expo will occupy 66,000 square feet of vendor/exhibit space, nearly three times larger than previous years

    high confidence · Rob Berk: 'This year the vendor space will take up 66,000 square feet, almost three times larger.'

  • There are currently 10+ active pinball manufacturers, with potentially 12+, compared to a period when only Stern dominated

    medium confidence · Rob Berk lists Stern, JJP, Spooky, Chicago Gaming, American Pinball, Haggis, Multimorphic, Pinball Adventures; notes 'There's at least three that you haven't mentioned that will be at the event' and 'It's going to be over 10. Maybe we'll even get 12.'

  • The virtual COVID Expo won a Twippy Award for best virtual show and ran for three days

    high confidence · Rob Berk: 'We won a Twippy Award for that, for the best virtual show... not only was it a one-day show, it was a three-day show.'

  • Rob Berk will display well over 400 games set for free play at the 2021 Expo

    high confidence · Rob Berk: 'there'll probably be well over 400 games, you know, set for free play.'

  • Spain had a domestic pinball manufacturing industry that developed independently due to import difficulties

    medium confidence · Rob Berk: 'Spain actually developed their own... own industry of pinball machine manufacturers, artists, and designers that makes games exclusively for the Spanish market.'

  • The inaugural 1985 Pinball Expo had approximately 100 attendees

    high confidence · Rob Berk: 'We had, I think, about 100 or so people show up that first time.'

Notable Quotes

  • “this is a passion that got out of control, guys. and it's been a lot of fun. It's been a long ride”

    Rob Berk @ ~7:30 — Captures Berk's self-aware humor about his collecting obsession and the Expo's evolution from passion project to industry institution

  • “I kept feeling in my heart, we've got to recognize these guys. They deserve a big thank you for what they've done for this industry”

    Rob Berk @ ~22:00 — Articulates the core mission of Pinball Expo: honoring designers and artists as the true creators of the medium

  • “how can I let you down? Of course I'll be your speaker.”

    Alvin Gottlieb (quoted by Rob Berk) @ ~24:30 — The pivotal moment that validated Berk's vision and gave him the confidence to launch the first Expo

  • “nothing beats live. The feel of it, the excitement of it”

    Rob Berk @ ~47:00 — Reflects the community's preference for in-person events despite the success of virtual COVID adaptation

  • “I'm going to ask you guys a question. Are you there, Scotty? ... between the two of you, to list every pinball manufacturer that you know of today.”

    Rob Berk @ ~52:30 — Sets up the striking comparison between today's manufacturer-rich landscape and the single-manufacturer era of the 1990s-2000s

  • “it seems like we went through the bottleneck and now we're expanding again”

    Josh (podcast host) @ ~1:04:00 — Summarizes the industry's recovery arc and current renaissance after the single-manufacturer bottleneck

  • “you would never guess, especially in Spain, that they had a market. They had their own market that was developed there”

    Rob Berk @ ~1:10:30 — Highlights underexplored regional pinball manufacturing history and the diversity of international pinball cultures

Entities

Rob BerkpersonChicago Pinball ExpoeventZach MinneypersonFlippin' Out PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack Pinball (JJP)companySteve KordekpersonNorm Clark

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: 2021 Chicago Pinball Expo moving to larger venue (Renaissance Center) with 66,000 sq ft (3x previous size) and drive-in vendor loading; fastest hotel sellout in event history

    high · Rob Berk confirmed venue move and space expansion; hotels selling out rapidly with backup hotels needed

  • ?

    business_signal: Pinball industry expanding from single-manufacturer era (Stern-only 1990s-2000s) to 10-12 active manufacturers as of 2021, marking significant growth cycle

    high · Rob Berk lists 8+ confirmed manufacturers (Stern, JJP, Spooky, Chicago Gaming, American Pinball, Haggis, Multimorphic, Pinball Adventures) and notes 3+ additional unannounced manufacturers showing at Expo

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball manufacturers backlogged and unable to produce fast enough; Chinese parts supply affecting production timelines

    medium · Rob Berk: 'a lot of the manufacturers are back ordering now they can't produce quick enough and it doesn't help the chinese cause some grief you know getting parts delivered into this country'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Growing collector interest in rare Spanish and Italian pinball machines from alternate regional markets; Rob Berk bringing 15+ Spanish and Italian titles to Expo that previously unknown to U.S. collectors

    medium · Rob Berk: 'I bought these games two years ago, and people went bonkers over this stuff because they had never seen these titles' and bringing Spanish/Italian games plus rare Valley games from 1960s

  • ?

    event_signal: Expo planning to showcase 400+ playable games including homebrew dedicated section, rare international titles, and classic Valley machines from 1960s

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.176

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast we're on episode 61 with me my co-host as always scott larson and it has been a minute we we've been kind of slacking lately scott what's up with this well okay this was mainly my fault i actually took a vacation with the family and so that was what was going on there well then i took a vacation with the family right at the end of the vacation with your family. Yeah. And it was kind of awkward that you were like on my family vacation, but other than that, you know, it kind of worked out. So yeah, not only, not only partners in pinball, but partners and family vacations. Okay. So that really didn't happen, but yeah, no, it's, it's just a summertime gets a little crazy as we all know, we're all trying to get our things in. So I appreciate people coming back and a few people have messaged us and said, sorry, you ended the podcast. And we're like, that's not really happening. But anyway, Stop believing poor men. They want us out of the running for whatever awards coming up next. Exactly.
1:03
No, it's all good. So let's get our sponsor of the show out of the way. So if you need a new pinball, go ahead and check out Zach and Nicole Minia, Flippin' Out Pinball. Great place. And Zach is actually a – he's a good friend, but he's also a good resource. I just had a – I will actually tell you that I had an issue with my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the premium, where the glider stopped working. And this is actually a promo for both Zach and both Stern because I sent a message last night to just Stern support. And they said, yeah, it sounds like a servo. Contact Zach, and he'll get you covered. And that was under 12 hours. So just in case you're wondering, that's how you do customer service, right? Yes, definitely. And Zach actually messaged me too. He said, yeah, we'll take care of that. So anyway. Well, and I'm always the tire kicker. Like I feel bad for Zach because I'm always like, so what you got in stock? Just randomly on a Saturday evening. And he's always Johnny on the spot. He's like, don't worry. It's no biggie. He sends me over the list. And that list is small. So if you're looking for a new pinball machine, good luck. I don't know what else to tell you at this point. Okay, I actually do know what to tell you because they know what gets on the line and what the schedules are. So I actually have an Iron Maiden premium that's going to be made this summer. Oh, yes. And I know that the Jurassic Park, the next run is going to be in December. So they actually do have an idea of when things will be available. So even if it's not available right now, he will know exactly when the run comes up. Yeah, nice. Anyway, so pick up a new pinball machine as well as trying to come out of COVID and practice up for those tournaments that are coming up. And speaking of things that are coming up, Josh, who do we have on the show today? This man has been in the pinball industry for quite a few years now. He is one of the original pinball convention creators. We're all excited for COVID to be finally over. And I think a lot of us are celebrating by going to Pinball Expo. And this is the man who puts it on every year. Please welcome Rob Burke. How are you doing, Rob? Good, guys. Thanks for allowing me to speak today.
person
Alvin Gottliebperson
Wayne Nyansperson
Harvey Heissperson
Past Times Arcade Museumvenue
Renaissance Centervenue
Spooky Pinballcompany
Chicago Gamingcompany
American Pinballcompany
Haggis Pinballcompany
Multimorphiccompany
Pinball Adventurescompany
Deep Root Pinballcompany
Dave Fixperson
Bill Kurtzperson
Joshperson
Scott Larsonperson
Gary Sternperson

high · Rob Berk: 'there'll probably be well over 400 games' plus 'an area to show just for homebrew games' with 'over a dozen titles' and 15 different Valley titles from 1960s

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pinball Expo relocating to dedicated convention center (Renaissance) with drive-in vendor loading, major infrastructure improvement over previous hotel-based venues

    high · Rob Berk: 'this year the first time we've been in a venue where you can actually drive your car right into the venue, unload at the venue... so you get a chance to meet them'

  • ?

    content_signal: 2020 virtual Pinball Expo won Twippy Award for best virtual show; 3-day format with pre-recorded seminars; successful COVID pivot that may continue as hybrid model for international accessibility

    high · Rob Berk: 'We won a Twippy Award for that, for the best virtual show... three days worth of seminars virtually... nominated for best event for 2020'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Pinball Expo founded in 1985 with explicit mission to honor designers/artists; first event recognized 4 legendary designers (Kordek, Clark, Nyans, Heiss) for 650+ combined game credits

    high · Rob Berk: 'the whole reason for doing the show, for me anyways, was to honor my heroes who were the pinball designers and artists... these gentlemen are responsible for designing over 650 games'

  • ?

    community_signal: Homebrew pinball game development becoming significant enough to warrant dedicated exhibition area at major Expo; multiple titles expected to be showcased

    medium · Rob Berk: 'we're going to have an area to show just for homebrew games so i wouldn't be surprised if there's over a dozen titles at the event just with homebrew stuff'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern Pinball production runs follow predictable schedules; Iron Maiden Premium coming summer 2021; Jurassic Park next run December 2021

    high · Podcast host mentions knowing Stern production schedules: 'I actually have an Iron Maiden premium that's going to be made this summer' and 'the Jurassic Park, the next run is going to be in December'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Spain developed independent pinball manufacturing industry (designers, artists, manufacturers) due to import difficulties and market isolation; maintained exclusive Spanish market focus

    medium · Rob Berk: 'Spain actually developed their own... own industry of pinball machine manufacturers, artists, and designers that makes games exclusively for the Spanish market' due to 'complexities and difficulty in getting pinball machines made in America'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Joust pinball (two-player head-to-head) being actively restored; Hubert's Quest (1983 video-game themed) rarely seen; Rat Race (10-unit production) extremely limited

    medium · Rob Berk: 'Joust, the two-player Joust, you know, head-to-head game will be there... one about an hour from me... they're trying to rebuild it... Hubert's Quest... Rat Race... only had, what, 10 maybe made? Yep. Very low production.'

    • 3:20
    Definitely. Absolutely. Great to have you on. It's not too often, you know, being from Ohio, not too often you talk to people from Utah. So this is a very rare occasion.
    3:30
    We're all part of the flyover state, so we kind of have to stay together, right? Yeah, I never knew they had pinballs in Utah.
    3:38
    Only a few. It just became legal last year. There you go. Yes. All that Mormon talk, we had to convince him it wasn't gambling anymore.
    3:47
    Well, we had to get Roger Sharp to come out here and make a shot, too, and show it wasn't really the – it wasn't degrading all of the morality of the people.
    3:58
    So, Rob, you've got to tell me, how long have you been doing Pinball Expo now? Well, this is going to be our 37th year. So, you know, it's a passion that got out of control, guys. and it's been a lot of fun. It's been a long ride, but I just hope to keep it going. It's been a lot of fun. I think we can all relate to a passion getting out of control with pinball.
    4:22
    Well, not even as a collector. I recently was having a discussion with a friend of mine. He says, how many games do you have? I said, I don't really know. So I asked my right-hand guy, Tony, that works for me. I said, hey, Tony, give me a count, will you? And he came back to me the following day. He said he called Roberto. Roberto is close as I can guess. You got about twelve hundred. Wow. So that's pretty crazy. Holy crap. Where do you keep all these games? Well, I used to keep it in the family. We have a family business here. I used to keep it in the warehouse. But finally, you know, I got started seeing games get damaged. And there was an available space not too far from our family business. So I leased it out, and it's working out for now. But also, you know, I keep buying because I'm looking for games all the time. And the passion has got so bad.
    5:22
    And then you guys say, how bad is it? How bad is it? That I bought recently a grocery store that's been out of business for several years. and the idea is to put the entire collection in there, not only to store it, but actually to have a museum of sorts so people can come in and enjoy them. Wow. Yes. I love it. That is awesome. Okay, where is this going to be and when is it going to be open? Well, I have a name of it called Past Times,
    5:53
    and it's going to be in a small community called Girard, which is near Youngstown, Ohio, and I would say early fall. It should be ready to rumble. All right. Okay. So when you have that ready to rumble, come back on and we'll talk about it and figure out all that stuff. We'll do a walking tour through it. It should be pretty insane. Yeah, that's really cool. You got to realize, you know, back when I was collecting in the early years, it was, and everyone in the pinball community, who has the most games? Well, at one time, I was about tied with Tim Arnold when we both had around 500.
    6:39
    But then he started going crazy, and I never caught up to him. I might have caught up to him now. I've gotten pretty close to him.
    6:47
    You've got to be close. I mean, Pinball Hall of Fame is big, but it's not that big. Well, you know, I realize I've got this many games, but not all of them will be set up for free play. but uh you never know if i get crazy enough yeah no that's that is crazy yeah love it love it see you got to tell me you obviously got in the hobby what what possessed you to go from you know i enjoy collecting these two i'm going to put on a giant convention in chicago illinois where the where it's all built yeah thanks for asking that's a great question uh and the reason why is because Because growing up, as part of the family vacation, we would always go to Miami, Florida. And my dad liked pinball, and he would always gravitate to the pinball machines, wherever they were. And as kids, we'd play. And that's where I think I started developing the passion and the excitement of playing pinballs. And, again, we're talking about the early to mid-60s. Okay.
    7:45
    From that, I went to college at Kent State. and there I got reintroduced to pinball in a big way because there was just pinball machines. Every game room had lined with pinballs. This was prior to the video craze. So it kind of reignited the flame.
    8:05
    And because of that, I started seeking out various books on pinball. And I think Michael Coleman was the first book I got. And then later on, Roger Sharp's book. But, man, they were a wealth of information. For me, it was so exciting to see all these different pictures of games I'd never seen before, back glasses and so forth. But then also it introduced you to the designers, the guys behind the scenes. And I remember at the time I was fascinated by Space Mission and Grand Prix, and here those were Steve Kordek games. So the story gets even crazier. I'm in Chicago, and this is about 1970 or so, 71, and my parents had a trade show there, and we were staying at the Palmer House Hotel, which is one of the oldie goldie hotels. It's a Sunday night about 830, and this is back when there was phone books back in every hotel. So I pulled the phone book out, and I'm just saying, what the heck? Let me see if I can find Steve Kordek in the phone book. And I find it. Steven F. Kornick. I said, should I? Should I not? So I call about 830 at night. This guy answered the phone. And I said, is this Steve Kornick? Yes, it is. Are you the guy that works in the pinball industry? Yes, I am. Boy, would I like to meet you. Well, that started the conversation. And he said, why don't you come down to the plant tomorrow? Well, gee, that was, are you kidding me? So I asked my dad. He said, yeah, I don't care. I'll drive you down there. And that was an early introduction to the people behind the scenes. And he introduced me to Norm Clark. And at the time, Norm was, you know, he worked at Williams for years, but then he went to Bali. So then I met Norm. And then between that meeting and then going to the AMOA and meeting some other people, I was introduced to a lot of other people in the industry. And the next guy was Wayne Nyans, who worked for Gottlieb. So all of this started mixing up my mind. And around the same time, I belonged to a group of pinball enthusiasts based out of Akron, Ohio. And they called themselves the Ohio Pinball Wizards. And basically, all it was was a bunch of enthusiasts that we would meet at a different guy's house every month to play pinball. And if it wasn't his home, we would meet at the local arcade. So I recall the one, it was a Friday evening, and I'm sitting there talking to the guys around the table. And I said, wouldn't that be cool if we had like a national pinball collectors club or gathering? I said, there's got to be other guys like us that are into this pinball hobby and so forth. And basically, yeah, yeah. But one of the members was Bill Kurtz. And I said, Bill, what do you think about helping me out? And let's draft a letter. and let's put it in Steve Young's Pinball Collectors Quarterly and let's see if there's an interest in actually doing such a thing. So we had 10 questions. Basically, would you attend? Number two, where would you want to see the convention? And it went on and on and on. Well, the responses came back. It was almost unanimous. Yeah, go for it. Do it. So the whole reason for doing the show, for me anyways, was to honor my heroes who were the pinball designers and artists.
    11:42
    Because let's face it, whether it be Valley or God or whoever, you had the big guys on top of the heap that ran the operations. But at the end of the day, it was the designers that created these games. So I kept feeling in my heart, we've got to recognize these guys. They deserve a big thank you for what they've done for this industry because I love their game. I love Cortex games. I love Norm Clark's games. And I felt that this convention would be an opportunity to thank these guys in person. So I thought to myself, let's have it in Chicago, which is the home of pinball.
    12:21
    And also I said, let's have a keynote speaker at the banquet, someone that's so powerful, people will come to this event just to hear the speaker. And the only guy I could think of is Alvin Gottlieb.
    12:34
    So I reached out to Don Murphy from Electrical Windings, and he was the guy that gave me Wayne Nine's name and contact information. And I said, hey, can you provide me a number for Elvin Gottlieb? Well, at the time, Elvin Gottlieb to me was like a god because, you know, the Gottlieb name, the great games they made and so forth. I said, you know, for me, nobody in the industry would approach him. It was like, wow. So I called him up and I said, hey, I'll be in Chicago next month for business. I said, is it possible I can meet you? I have an idea, but I want to see if you could help me with it. So he said, yeah, here's where I live. Come to my home. But, hey, this is crazy. Couldn't believe it. So I go to Alvin's house. He answers the door wearing blue jeans and just a casual dress. I thought this guy would be all decked out to the nines.
    13:25
    So he's just like an average guy. We came in and I told him about my dream of doing this pinball show. And apparently I must have shown so much enthusiasm. He looked at me and he says, how can I let you down? Of course I'll be your speaker. So to me that was the finishing point that I needed to make this thing happen. So I came up, I found a hotel near the airport and I lined up several people to speak at the show. We had a factory tour and then we had a banquet at night the last night to recognize the guys.
    14:05
    And we had, I think, about 100 or so people show up that first time. And I remember one guy, it was really wild for me to see, was Rich Conger from California. and he was, I remember him distinctly because he was one of the guys that never wanted to fly an airplane. So he took a train to come to Chicago to come to the event. So I thought that was pretty wild. But at the time, Dick Buchel was still living and he was a guy that wrote several books, I think two books on pinball But he met all the guys that were there and all the designers and a lot of the fans such as ourselves and he called it a loving because he said, you know, here you got all these people that love this stuff and had never before met. Because you got to remember, this was a time there was no Internet. Everything was by phone or writing a letter. or for you old timers out there, sometimes corresponding via a cassette deck where you're talking to a cassette for 15 minutes, a half hour, and then send it to your friends, and that's how you would communicate.
    15:16
    But through all that, the show turned out great. For me, the highlight was when I mentioned Cornette Clark, Wayne Nyans, and finally Harvey Heiss, who at the time had worked for Genco, but he had long retired. But he was the fourth designer that we recognized at this event.
    15:38
    And I remember saying at the banquet, would the following gentlemen come up front in front of the podium here. I mentioned their names, and I said, these gentlemen are responsible for designing over 650 games. I said, would you please rise and give them an applaud? And not only did people applaud, but they were cheering them on. And for me, what was really great was for these guys to see them finally getting the recognition, and they had tears in their eyes. So it was just great.
    16:12
    Very magical moment. Wow. And you've been doing it ever since. So, yeah. So what happened was, in my mind, I was done, one and done. I accomplished what I wanted to What's usually going on In about six months into the following year I started getting phone calls What's the next show And I said there is no more show This is it Well no man this is too much fun You gotta have another one So I did okay let me do one more And then another one So here we go guys This year will be number 37 There's a lot of other guys that have done shows Some have come and went but to do the same show same promoter for 37 years is if you think about it it's pretty unbelievable that is truly amazing so i want to go through last year so what happened last year and you guys had to pivot pretty quickly because with covid and with uh the gatherings all being eliminated basically right how how was that and how were you able to to pivot because you moved online pretty quickly yeah um dave fix who helps him with the vendor chair you know he had the idea of doing a virtual show so i had met a lot of guys of course over the years plus new faces and people i'd met through facebook and i reached out to him i said i want to like do a virtual event would you agree to be in it, be part of it. And it was a pretty overwhelming yes. And at the time, you know, a lot of this stuff was a relatively new technology as far as doing a show via Zoom or whatever, Teams or whatever app that you got.
    18:02
    But, you know, just think about the coordination guys. You know, hey, Scotty, I got to get you guys together, you and Josh, and be ready at 4 o'clock a certain day to be on the air. So I had to do that. But for the most often the case, people just pre-recorded their seminar and just sent it to us, and then we downloaded it. But it was crazy. We won a Twippy Award for that, for the best virtual show. But I think it was one of the few virtual events that really took place. But we tried to do it in a big way. And not only was it a one-day show, it was a three-day show. So three days worth of seminars virtually. So even that's pretty insane when you think about it. So we were happy with how it worked, and I think we did a pretty good job of pulling it off. I think so, too. I think everyone was very happy with the way that the response was for COVID. I mean, there wasn't much else we could do, and so I think it pulled off very well. And it was, well, you guys were nominated for the best event for 2020. So obviously it did something for you guys. Yeah. So, but in our mind, or in my mind, I kept my street going of continuous shows. So that was pretty special. It also, the one thing that I've noticed with last year, and I've noticed even in my business, that a lot of these things are starting to incorporate like an online presence. So you can actually see some of the talks or you can at least view the information virtually, which before, if I couldn't go to Expo or I couldn't go somewhere, you were basically out of luck. But with that option, is that something that you're thinking of continuing for this Expo? or what lessons did you learn from the last one that you're going to possibly incorporate into the next one? That's a great question. I mean, most of the guys in Europe would even think of the idea of doing a virtual event. But, you know, virtual is okay, but nothing beats live.
    20:20
    The feel of it, the excitement of it, and, you know, we're trying to incorporate all that stuff, maybe have some live feed from the show. But personally, I still prefer live over virtual. I agree. I'm just saying this as a possible option for people who can't come. So say you're in Europe and you can't fly over for the expo. Right. This is still a way that you could possibly participate.
    20:47
    Listen, Josh, the best thing for me to do would be to do that, and you can read my eyes and ears. so you can do broadcasting live from the Renaissance Hotel.
    21:00
    We'll make it fun. But, you know, that's the thing. I'm open to all ideas. You know, we try to be creative in everything we do.
    21:08
    And, you know, for me, the show in the past was about a 25,000-square-foot facility as far as the vendor space and exhibit space. and this year I just wanted to constantly outdo myself. This year the vendor space will take up 66,000 square feet, almost three times larger.
    21:36
    So anyone who's in the pinball, they're going to be in for a treat this year. So you are moving to a new location again this year. So let's talk about the new location. Now, this time it's at, make sure I get this right, it's at the Renaissance. Is that right? Right, Renaissance Center in Schaumburg. How is that different? Tell me more about this space. Well, it's more of a convention center. I mean, every year since day one, we've had the expo, it's been in the hotel. But this is actually a convention center that's made exclusively to handle big events.
    22:17
    And what's special about this for any of those people listening that might be vendors? In the past, it was a real hassle to come to the show as a vendor. and you had to throw your equipment or your booth on a dolly and had to bring it down one aisle way and down a hallway and behind the restaurant. I mean, it was a pain. Whereas this year, the first time we've been in a venue where you can actually drive your car right into the venue, unload at the venue, and you can unload right there where your booth will be at. So it'll be extremely convenient for those that care to be a vendor this year that want to come to the show. You mentioned if you are a vendor. So if people are trying to get a hold of you to be part of this expo, they want to exhibit something, they want to be part of this, what's the best way to get a hold of you? Well, I can be reached by phone, which is 330-716-3139. or you can go through the website, and the vendor application is right there on the website. With this place that you've moved to, it's a lot more accommodation for where you're sleeping and whatnot as well, and this is the fastest you guys have ever sold out for a hotel, correct? Yeah, that's a good point.
    23:40
    I'm pleasantly surprised. I just didn't know that it would sell so quickly. So for those trying to get a room, we have an additional location on there for another hotel. This is our backup hotel, the Marriott. But there will be another one as well coming on board early next week, the Embassy Suite. So there will be several other choices to choose from. But the hotels are, you know, connected. Our main hotel is connected to the convention center, so everything is in walking distance between the hotel and the event. you've been doing this for 37 years. Has it just been, you've obviously in the ups and downs of the pinball industry. Yeah. Is this, is this the biggest it's ever been? Or was there a time before this? It was pretty big. Yeah, that's a good question. Cause I remember Steve Kordick always saying that the pinball industry ran in cycles. It was the ups and downs, but it would, it would keep rebounding and he was right. And it's true. But, uh, I guess my best answer to your question is this. I'm going to ask you guys a question. Are you there, Scotty? Yeah, I'm still here. I want you guys, between the two of you, to list every pinball manufacturer that you know of today.
    24:54
    Okay. So, okay, I get to go first. Yep. Stern. One. JJP. Two. Spooky. Three. Chicago Gaming. American. American pinball. Okay, Chicago Gaming, good. American, good. Haggis good the what's the P3 one Multimorphic yes does Pinball Adventures count yeah we'll call them okay we know that Deep Root doesn't count oh yeah shots fired yeah you have to actually make a game to be part of the list yeah Yeah, it seems like there's a new option every couple months. Like someone says, hey, let's start this up. So you just gave me about eight names, okay? Okay. There's at least three that you haven't mentioned that will be at the event showing a new pinball machine. Really? Are these companies that have announced that they're actually making games to the public? I don't know if they want me to announce it Or want me to announce it But most likely we will But guys that's crazy So we got 1, 2, 3, 4 5, 6, 7, 8 It's going to be over 10 Maybe we'll even get 12 But these are all different They're hoping to make a major presence Now What's become a big topic As you know is the homebrew guys yep so we're going to have an area to show just for homebrew games so i wouldn't be surprised if there's over a dozen titles at the event just with homebrew stuff okay so this reminds me about i would say the polarizing documentary is special when lit which certainly it emphasized interesting personalities in the industry, but it does talk about the decline in the 90s where they started with about 10 or 12 and then slowly dwindled down until one, until basically Stern. And Stern was the only game in town for the turn of the century. And then when JJP jumped on, it started to pick up more steam. And now in the last five years, it's amazing how many different options have really started to it seems like we went through the bottleneck and now we're expanding again you know it just shows you how hot pinball is right now and i'm saying for all ages and in all countries and a lot of the manufacturers are back ordering now they can't produce quick enough and it doesn't help the chinese cause some grief you know getting parts delivered into this country but i guess the point being there must be a demand or you wouldn't find these guys coming out of the woodwork and coming up with new companies.
    27:59
    So it remains to be seen, you know, how many guys will actually show up at the end of the day. But you have to appreciate the fact that Stern has built, you know, put together a team of employees that, you know, are really terrific for them to produce the amount of games they produce and the quality they're producing. And it's a really interesting industry, you have to admit. And the more you dig into it, the more you'll see, you can appreciate the efforts these guys are making. Also, for those of you that have never been to Expo, part of our program is you can tour Stern Pinball. And typically they don't allow an open door to their factory, perhaps from a special invitation or something, they may do it. But they go all out and do a wonderful job of providing a tour of the factory. and you get a chance to meet Gary Stern, which is always fun,
    28:55
    and his team of surrounding team that make that company rock and roll. So you live in Ohio. What convinced you to do it in Chicago? Why didn't you do it closer to home? Only because it's the home of pinball. I always felt that the show would only prosper and only be strong if we had it in Chicago, the home of pinball. And the reasoning is if I want to do a tour of a factory I right there If I want to get some of the Chicago designers or artists to participate in some manner they right there It an easy request
    29:31
    And so far, you know, I've been correct in that mindset that, you know, they'd be glad to come. And some of the other shows, you know, have had guest speakers here and there, but not to the breadth of the expos, God. It only makes sense just because of the location alone. Right. It's easier for you to organize from a distance and then show up as opposed to have everybody from there come to you. Yeah. And you're probably going to get a lot more buy in if they can drive there. Yep, absolutely. You know, one other thing about the expo for those who have never been there or seen it is we have an autograph session. So to me, that's one of my more one of my favorite events. but if anyone likes a particular designer or artist uh there's a good chance you'll be there at the show signing autographs but here you get a chance to uh meet them and talk to them one-on-one and ask them any questions you have or take your pictures with them so that it's a real fun opportunity we have at the show that um and we bring out some of the old timers too i mean the one guy that keeps showing up every year which i think is great is dave maddock christensen the artist for Captain Fantastic to name one of many titles but his artwork was always fun and a very creative guy and he comes to the show so you get a chance to meet him yeah that's pretty amazing to be able to draw it really does seem like Chicago is the mecca for pinball and so so many tentacles out there that you can just draw in from the basically the history of modern pinball you know past the the 1970s and and most of those people are still around and kicking so that they're still able to come in yes and um you know one thing josh um over the years i've been working on this personally but um every year i i try to bring a lot of games myself to the event. And this year, based on how the numbers are looking, there'll probably be well over 400 games, you know, set for free play. And for me, what's a special treat to the attendees is I'm bringing a lot of new titles and a lot of, including games made in Italy and games made in Spain.
    31:54
    And, you know, you would never guess, especially in Spain, that they had a market. They had their own market that was developed there because of the complexities and difficulty in getting pinball machines made in America.
    32:08
    So Spain actually developed their own, from the bottom of it, their own industry of pinball machine manufacturers, artists, and designers that makes games exclusively for the Spanish market.
    32:23
    So, I mean, I bought these games two years ago, and people went bonkers over this stuff because they had never seen these titles. I mean, this is a full-size game, full-size graphics made by people. We never heard it before. So, I am bringing these games back, plus additional ones that people have never seen in the past. Are those the Zachariah games like Farfalla and Mars Trek and whatnot? that's just a very, very scratch the surface of the games you'll see there. Okay. So that's nuts. Plus there'll be the Joust Pinball, the two-player Joust, you know, head-to-head game will be there. I actually saw one of those last week. It was torn apart. They're trying to rebuild it. But there is one about an hour from me because I was taking an arcade out to get them to fix it up. Now, there's another game that I just got worried when it came to Expo this year. Hubert's Quest.
    33:20
    Okay. I didn't realize that was a pinball machine. Yeah. It was made about the time when, like, 1983-ish, when video games seemed to be taken over. So they did a lot of video game themes that they were trying to incorporate into pinball. You know, that's when Pac-Man pinball came out. Space Invaders and stuff like that, Spy Hunter. Yeah, exactly. I don't know of too many that were wildly successful.
    33:50
    We're going to have also a pretty good selection of Valley games from the 60s. So there's a resurgence of interest in games of that era. So there'll be about 15 different titles from games, you know, from Blue Ribbon and a lot of oddball titles you just don't see every day.
    34:08
    Well, Dave Fix was telling us that there's usually a rat race up there, which has only had, what, 10 maybe made? Yep. Very low production. All I can say, you guys and those in your enlisting audience, get ready. So go through – so for people who haven't been to a show before, because there are a lot of people who I think have never been able to go to a show, and now they're going to be coming. So, like, lead us through the options that they have because, you know, they have lectures. They have free play stuff. They have vendors. They have tournaments. So tell me about all the things that you're going to be offering. And so we'll be able to generate some buzz to figure out what people will be going to Expo for. Right. Good question. So when you enter Wednesday night We have what we call our bumper blast Which is kind of like our introductory Welcoming party And that will be in the vendor hall So you'll start to see parts of the hall As it's coming together But they'll also have Like I mentioned earlier the tour But the show offers Seminars And I mean like Close to 50 hours of seminars Which is crazy but it's all facets of the hobby from A to Z so there's always something for everybody we have that like you mentioned we have the tournaments and we have a separate women's tournament we have the Papa tournament there will be a tournament there for some of the older games that you can enter and this is for all age groups and for all levels of playing there's a lot of A players out there but also there'll be prizes and awards for the the b players as well uh we're gonna have a raffle there so you can buy a ticket for a raffle for a new pinball machine still in the box scotty don't take that from me i need that game all right all right so you're gonna give me one of your Zacharias. There you go.
    36:19
    But, you know, I usually use the tagline the everything for everyone show, because there's just so much happening that for those coming, whether the first time or not, you've got to tell your better half, don't talk to me, don't expect a phone call, because I'll be up from morning to night playing, meeting people. You know, to me, what's kind of cool is all the people that come from Europe, Japan, Italy, Spain, and to connect to them. And that's been a lot of fun. It's a pen pal of a sort. You meet new people that share a common interest. And for a lot of people, it's like a family reunion where they see friends that they've met in the past, but also new friends that they make there at the show.
    37:10
    I wouldn't say tell your better half. I would say bring your better half because having a spouse that's really into pinball or a boyfriend or girlfriend that's really into pinball, that makes it a lot easier to buy pinball machines yourself. Well, yep. But then, Josh, are you married, I assume? Yes, 14 years. Okay, so your wife is going to say, Josh, why aren't you hanging with me? Why are you hanging with all your buds and not with me?
    37:37
    Here, honey, here's a couple hundred dollars in my credit card. go shopping downtown so by the way for those people that are into the shopping chicago is a shopping mecca so you'll certainly have a good time to go shopping there but you know some spouses are into this and uh some are not so if you're into pinball you know by all by all means bring your spouse uh we got i'm just trying to think we have one lady from fargo pinball that's going to give a talk on women in pinball. So she'll have a lot of different women involved in the industry. They'll be part of that panel. So, you know, like I said, it's the everything for everyone show. If you're into pinball at any facet of it, you're going to go nuts, man. You're going to go crazy. Bring your checkbook. Bring your credit cards because there will be plenty of stuff for sale, machines for sale. There was a game that Dino Gasparri from Canada had built. It was a one-of-a-kind pinball expo machine he built for the show two years ago. He's bringing it back, and I think he wants to sell with kind of a waffle thing, or what do they call those, waffles, yeah? Yeah, waffles. You know, and may the best guy win, have your name pulled. But there's just so much happening, guys, that you'll leave there saying, wow. but it's a lot of fun a lot of excitement in connecting with fellow pinball collectors and players and enthusiasts okay so the days that I see down are it's basically the weekend is October 27th which is Wednesday and then you have Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday is when everything's being torn down so if you're budgeting time budget the 27th through the 31st to get to Expo So tell me about tickets, multi-day tickets, a single-day tickets. How is the best way for people to get in? Yeah, I'm going to back up for one second. On Sunday, nothing happened on Sunday other than the finals of the pinball tournament. So I wanted to mention that. But, yeah, you can buy tickets there at the door, or you can buy the packages. So the packages includes admission, includes the factory tour, and so forth. So this is all explained on the website. So there's just different levels. You can buy. And if you don't buy the packet, like I said, you can buy tickets just to come to the event for the day, just to go to the vendor hall. There's tickets to go just to seminars only if you're there just for the educational experience. So it just depends on your level of interest.
    40:17
    It definitely sounds like it's quite the party. Have you guys been there? No, I have not. This will be my very first year going. Yeah, I couldn't go two years ago, but I was planning on going last year, but obviously it didn't work. Right. But I have been to a show, so I at least have the general vibe of what a show is about. Well, you know, the show has changed a lot over the years. The past two years I've kind of really let loose, and this year it's just reaching the point of insanity. besides the pinballs we're also incorporating more and more of the retro video games because you know you have those groups of people out there that collect the pac-man the centipedes and so forth so there'll be a very there'll be a sampling of those games plus also this year we're going to have an area for those guys are the retro guys that collect the retro video games to the Ataris, the GameCubes, the Sega systems and so forth, Dreamcast systems. So there'll be a fellow named Paul Zimmerman and Todd Friedman are helping with that, and they're bringing a whole lad of monitors and game systems to play some of these earlier games as well. It sounds like you said you've got something for everyone, so there's no reason for you not to go. Well, I guess unless you're stuck in a country that is not allowing travel for COVID. But other than that, if you're not going, why are you not going?
    41:48
    Yeah, you know, for a lot of people that have never been there, perhaps this is the year for you to give it a shot. And you know what kills me is some people will call from Europe and they say they want to just come for the day.
    42:01
    And I basically... From Europe? Yeah, I basically, I'll beg, I'll say, do yourself a favor. It's so far away to come. Come and enjoy the whole event. It's just too far to come. A lot of people just don't realize how explosive and fun this show is. There's so much to do. You just can't see everything in one day. You need days to see everything, to see the people, to see all the attractions. There's just so much going on. Your head's going to spin, but in a good way.
    42:36
    I'm excited. I don't know about – I know Scott's excited too, but it just – I think, like I said, everyone's just kind of – we're ready to get back to normal. A lot of us have got our vaccines, and we want to do something fun. I think this is the very first big event that everyone can go to, and so is there a limit to how many people can get in? Because if so, you might not get a ticket if you don't plan early. The limit will be 10,000, so we should be okay. Yeah, and I don't know And I'm on the website now It looks like you can get the advanced registration package And you can get that whole thing For $175 Yep You know, to answer your question, guys You know, there's still COVID in the air And some people are still very concerned And careful So we're going to do what we can To handle that situation as well Whether it be wipes or a way to clean Chicago which was closed down for the longest time, is finally opening up more and more to events like this. So as far as I know, I do not believe that they mandate masks. But by all means, if certain people are still concerned, they're welcome to wear their mask. But it should be a pretty amazing event and a chance for everybody just to get the cobwebs out of their hair and just let their hair down and just have a great time and seeing their old friends again and playing pinball to death Rob I got to ask what you been doing this for so long What has been your favorite moment? Or if you can narrow it down to a couple, what's been your favorite moments from the past expos that you've done? Yeah, certainly the first year, there was the magic of putting everything together. and in that case, meeting people that you have talked to but never met. So that was always special. Another special year for me was when Joe Kamenkow, when he worked at Daddy East, helped build from scratch a machine that Harvey Heist talked about at one of his seminars, and it was called Baby in the Hole. if you google it I think you can find it on the IPBD website or database DB but you'll see a picture of it and you'll see what it's all about but Joe Kamikow who's been a great advocate of Pinball Expo helped build this game it was a roll down game but he helped build this game and we presented it to Harvey Heiss at the expo and talk about a magical moment guys i'm telling you it was unbelievable we wheeled this game into into the hall there and then busy we had harvey stand in front of this game and then at this time harvey heiss was hitting about 88 years old yeah i'm actually looking at the picture now yeah i'm right there with you his tie is about five inches long it was it was very bright up to the very end. And when we pulled that rope or pulled that blanket off that game, he fell to his knees. It was so great. And Kevin O'Connor did the artwork on that. And if you look at that back glass, they put my likeness on one corner of that back glass. So that's you in the top right, and then I'm guessing this is Heiss on the top left? Yep.
    46:14
    See all the different manufacturers come and go It's crazy. You mentioned about some of the highlights. I think it was just touring these places, these factories, which typically are off-limits. I remember touring Gottlieb the first time. You always heard rumblings that Gottlieb was very secretive and they don't let any secrets out.
    46:39
    You just didn't know a whole lot about the inner workings of the plant. To go to that factory, that was very cold. but there's so much happened everything kind of intertwined you can't remember what even what year you saw you saw certain things but i know for me another special moment was um when uh
    46:58
    nolan bushnell came from atari he came as our one of our speakers at the banquet i mean that was a special moment i've been working on trying to get that guy for 30 years finally at our 30th expo he showed up so that was really very special for me to have him finally show up but over the years with so many guys show up that are luminaries in the industry tom neiman was a great one because tom neiman i'm not sure if you know who he is but he was the marketing genius in ballet you know he's the one to put together um you know tommy with Ann-Margaret and all the stuff and Bobby Orr and all those years of ballet, one title after the other, Rolling Stones, Dolly Parton. He was the guy that put these celebrities on these back glasses. Gotcha. I've got to ask you, too, because it was Pinball Expo 1999 that WMS closed. It was the Monday or the Tuesday after Expo. Do you remember that and kind of what the thoughts were going on there? Well, I do and I don't. I remember the seminar going on. And again, as the chairman of the event, I was always bouncing around from place to place. So I recall going in there and hearing him talk. And, you know, it sounded like, you know, the end was near. and it was kind of a reminiscing kind of talk about what it was like for Williams and so forth. So it was a weird time. And for me, what was unbelievable.
    48:34
    You ready, Scott? You sitting down? I'm sitting down. Let's bring it. How about Josh? I am. Here I am, little old Rob Burke doing this little old show.
    48:46
    And Williams waited till after Pinball Expo. to close their doors. My point being, they could have done it at any time.
    48:59
    You know, in my mind, they waited, you know, they made a commitment to allow us to tour their factory and to have their people at the event. But can you imagine the day after Expo is when they made the announcement.
    49:13
    It's crazy. Yeah. You know, people were just in shock. But, you know, the industry keeps going. Like everything in life, things keep moving forward, and all you can do is keep going forward and hope for the best. And pinball keeps driving. I mean, I think it's the strongest now that it's ever been.
    49:34
    So, you know, the future, I would say, is pretty rosy. Yeah, it seems like the nice thing about being a niche hobby, and we've talked about this before, is the interconnectivity that the online presence or the internet has been able to branch out. And so even if it's a smaller hobby than it was when you saw pinball in every 7-Eleven, Pizza Hut, et cetera, but it's still very passionate and interconnected because I have a lot of friends in every city and thinking, oh, well, I know who to go play pinball with in this city just because otherwise 15 years ago, that resource wouldn't have been there. I mean to me the only thing that gets me excited about my achievements is the fact that when I see all these other shows going on and let's face it there's shows all over the world now and once things open up there'll be a show every month going on in the calendar but it all started with me it was the vision due to a passion that became a reality and that one show is a kickoff of many, many other shows. And like I say, from all over the world. Well, it's definitely paid off because you're considered one of the top pinball conventions in the world. People come from all around just to come to this one. Who's saying that?
    51:00
    Well, I'm saying it. We just said it. I love you, man. You know, it was hard getting that because, you know, for a while there, I think being the promoter, You know, I saw at times I think the show is kind of at times getting a little stale.
    51:18
    And that's why, you know, I felt some changes that need to be made. And I kind of got more and more involved in the show and bought out my ex-partner. And I just decided to do some things a little differently and, you know, get everyone kind of rekindled to the show and show that we can do a great job. And for those of you who have been to the last one, which is what, a year and a half ago almost? Yep. But it was a pretty special event.
    51:46
    Yeah. I know everybody's looking forward to it this time, Rob. So best of luck to it. I know we are looking forward to it. We're definitely going to be getting our tickets here soon. And definitely get on. Schedule the rooms because, hey, I was a little behind the eight ball. So I actually need to schedule my rooms too. Hey, one final thing, guys. We are doing something else this year. It's typical. It's a common thing in the retro video world, but they call it cosplay. Yep. Okay. Where you're going to dress up as your favorite character. So we are going to do that Saturday, but we're also going to do dress up as your favorite pinball machine on Saturday. Yes. So we're going to make it really super fun because it's basically Halloween weekend. we want to add to the festivity and to the craziness and the insanity of the whole event in a good way it's for the family let's face it it's family friendly in all aspects of it so we're here for the whole family to have a good time well Josh is going to dress up like his favorite game Popeye right? Yes you know it my favorite we did this many many years ago at the Expo Banquet And Phoebe Smith dressed up as Bad Cats Oh nice It was just so fun And the idea was you had to guess who it was So she was dressed up as that I remember someone else dressed up As a professional wrestler So you know, Godlin Tag Team We had a couple Other ones Let me think what else was fun Could have been something from the Addis family, but you know there's so many titles now. It could be really fun to dress up and just be part of the event. And let's face it, you can get involved as much as you want to in the expo or you can just sit back and chill out and enjoy the scenery and enjoy seeing people and enjoy playing the games. I mean, you can just play games until your eyeballs pop out. If Zach Minney doesn't show up as a giant whirlwind topper, I will be disappointed. He's going to bring a leaf blower. Alright. Put the word out. But anyway, I want to thank you guys for including me and even considering talking to me. I want to thank those of your listening audience that tuned in and hopefully they enjoyed it. Well, and we appreciate having you on. We feel like you're a very important part of pinball history within itself. I mean, you've been doing this for 37 years. You've definitely seen the ups and downs, like you said, that Steve Kordek was talking about. Yep. And, you know, for those of you just even thinking about mildly coming, you've got to give it a shot, whether it be this year or next year or any of the shows because there's a magic in the air.
    54:40
    And also the fun is seeing some of these vendors. So whether it be Marco or whoever it is, you know, you can meet these guys one-on-one.
    54:50
    So that's, you know, really fun. I know Marco brought in this Antoinette Johnson. She dressed up with her hair all up in a – I don't know how to explain it. She does that a lot. Yeah, it's impressive. How do you explain it? But, you know, to see it, it's like, man, that is cool. It looks like a punk peacock. It's cool. Yeah, it's impressive. A lot of fun is just meeting these people. And then, you know, walking up to either the manufacturers or the vendors and say, hey, do you have this widget or that widget? I can't seem to find it. And if they don't know, they might know who can help you out. So there's so many people there from all many different facets of the hobby that you're certainly bound to find what you need. All right. Sounds good. Well, we certainly love having you on. Well, we also have some of our own little swag, so we'll definitely get you a hat and we'll send you some other stuff. You may or may not be familiar with it, but it's a pretty coveted hat. We're pretty impressed with it. I love it. Make sure you guys sign it. That way it'll be worth millions. Oh, yeah. Right. Project Pinball will be there as well. Okay, perfect. So what he does every year is he brings a ton of stuff down there for sale. Normally he'll have one or two pinball machines for auction, but all that game goes towards his charity. So that's somebody else that if you heard about him or what he does, you'll be able to see him firsthand.
    56:18
    Okay, awesome. Always a good charity to support. So, Rob, if people want to get a hold of you, what's the best way to get a hold of you? 330-716-3139. All right. That's the first time we've had someone give out their phone number on our Pitfall podcast.
    56:38
    No longer is a secret. Okay, Rob, stick around. We just need to, as soon as we're done, you just need to wait because it uploads from your side. You know, one other thing, if anyone wants to be either a vendor or wants to speak at this show, you know, either reach out to me through the website or call me directly. And, you know, we'll make room for you. We'll find room for you to be part of the show.
    57:05
    That would be awesome. Sounds good. We're happy to help out, too, if you need us. Great. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Rob. If you want to get a hold of us, we are Loserkidpinballpodcast at gmail.com. You can also hit us up on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Loser Kid Pinball. We are also starting to stream. Well, I am. Not so much for Scott, but I've been trying to get more on a schedule, but life is crazy right now. So if you want to watch it, just go to atloserkidpinball on twitch.tv. You can follow us there, and it will remind you or let you know when we went live and doing some streaming. We've been having a lot of fun. you can come and talk to us and chat and whatnot.
    57:48
    Anything else, Scott? I think that's it. Definitely get on your schedule. And if you guys have any feedback for us or any suggestions or people you want us to try to get on, go ahead and send that to Josh and me and we'll see what we can do.
    58:03
    Sounds good. I guess we'll see you in two weeks, right, Scott? Sounds good. Yeah, thanks, Josh. Shut up and sit down.