Triple Drain discusses Pinwoofer audio upgrades, Bond 60th impressions, and Foo Fighters code update mechanics.
Summary
Triple Drain Podcast Episode 35 features hosts Joel, Travis, and Tom discussing pinball equipment upgrades and recent game experiences. The episode covers Pinwoofer's new CDU (Coin Door Unit) audio upgrade kit, initial impressions of Bond 60th Anniversary, recent Stern code updates including Foo Fighters and Godzilla, and detailed gameplay analysis of Foo Fighters' drop target and paddle mechanics. The conversation also touches on Tom's upcoming decision to sell Deadpool to make room for a simpler game like Cactus Canyon.
Key Claims
All 500 Bond 60th Anniversary units were made without Shaker motors installed in the factory
high confidence · Joel states this directly when discussing his Bond 60th unit that arrived without the motor
Every single Stern LCD game received a code update as of 4:20 PM Eastern time
high confidence · Tom reports this as of the recording date, stating the update affected the overall Stern operating system and Insider connected functionality
Foo Fighters code update slightly nerfed the last shot formula based on time remaining
medium confidence · Travis reports hearing about formula changes in the new code but admits he hadn't fully reviewed the readme file
Foo Fighters can be exploited through drop target geometry to create safe, repeatable paddle shots that level up power-ups
high confidence · Travis provides detailed technical explanation of van mods drop target mechanics tested across four different versions/locations
Keith Elwin has only reached the Bond 60th wizard mode twice despite playing extensively
high confidence · Joel reports direct conversation with Keith about the game's difficulty level and wizard mode rarity
Pinwoofer's CDU unit costs $150 and includes sub crossover, volume controls, and menu buttons
high confidence · Joel provides detailed feature breakdown and pricing during Pinwoofer product discussion
Tom is selling Deadpool to make room for a simpler, more approachable game like Cactus Canyon
high confidence · Tom explicitly states this decision late in the episode, citing limited collection size and preference for simpler games
Bond 60th topper is being integrated into the Cornerstone Bond game with similar level of sophistication
medium confidence · Joel mentions this as something he hopes will happen but acknowledges uncertainty about integration timeline
Notable Quotes
“it's coming off of my credit card”
Joel@ 13:45 — Reveals the podcast is self-funding infrastructure costs; used humorously to thank new Patreon supporters
“it's fantastic believe it or not I'm not saying that just because I got got a kit but no it's actually awesome”
Travis@ 10:05 — Genuine endorsement of the audio upgrade despite receiving it as a test unit; establishes credibility of product recommendation
“this is a collector's item but if you can afford it and you are a collector I think you will genuinely enjoy this game”
Joel@ 18:27 — Clear positioning of Bond 60th as premium collector product rather than mass-market game
“the game kicks me in the butt every single time I play it”
Joel@ 16:12 — Indicates high difficulty level; sets up conversation about Keith Elwin's wizard mode achievement
“I tested this out on now I think it's been four different versions of this game and it's held true on all four versions”
Travis@ 25:28 — Establishes credibility and consistency of the exploitable mechanic across multiple physical machines
“Deadpool is actually leaving... Deadpool is actually leaving I was just kidding are you serious nope”
Tom@ 30:35 — Dramatic reveal of significant collection change with humorous misdirection; impacts Tom's future gameplay content
code_update: All Stern LCD games received operating system update for Insider connected functionality; specific games like Foo Fighters and Godzilla also received rule set code updates
high · Tom states 'every single Stern LCD game has a code update' and confirms Foo Fighters had formula changes to last shot and Godzilla received new additions
?
product_concern: All 500 units of Bond 60th Anniversary shipped without Shaker motors installed; motors being added post-factory
high · Joel confirms 'they forgot to do it in the factory that's the story all 500 of them were made with no Shaker motor so now they're being made afterwards'
?
design_innovation: Pinwoofer CDU (Coin Door Unit) integrates multiple audio functions: headphone jack, sub crossover/volume controls, coin door menu buttons, and custom back box speakers in single package
high · Joel's detailed product breakdown covering all CDU features and Dan's design approach to create tiered audio upgrade options
?
gameplay_signal: Foo Fighters drop target/paddle geometry creates repeatable safe shots for power-up leveling; tested consistently across multiple machine instances
high · Travis provides detailed technical explanation: 'I tested this out on now I think it's been four different versions of this game and it's held true on all four versions'
?
product_launch: Stern releasing Bond 60th Anniversary with supply already reaching distributor and secondary market despite high price point; game positioned as collector/premium tier
Topics
Audio upgrade equipment and modificationsprimaryBond 60th Anniversary design and gameplay impressionsprimaryFoo Fighters code updates and exploit mechanicsprimaryStern pinball system-wide LCD code updatesprimaryCollection management and game selling decisionssecondaryPinball streaming and content productionsecondaryRule set design philosophy and power-up systemssecondaryTournament-level pinball strategy and geometry exploitationsecondary
Sentiment
positive(0.78)— Hosts are enthusiastic about Pinwoofer products, Bond 60th (despite high difficulty), and Foo Fighters mechanics. Some mild frustration about factory defects (Bond shaker motors) and personal frustrations (Tom not receiving mod), but overall tone is supportive and excited about pinball equipment and gameplay discovery. Casual banter and jokes maintain relaxed, friendly atmosphere.
Transcript
youtube_auto_sub · $0.000
network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right I I Know I Know Travis is getting antsy um this so this new thing was in Caster we're just hitting buttons and we're trying to do all the audio in one take and so because of that Travis can't talk and we're we're doing our you can talk now if you want to cut me off I can tell your antsy to do it but um no we can um during our pre-recording meeting we just were like we just need to get into it like screw this why why plan well I get uh I get a plan here so we're diving right in um Tom are you you good to go you feeling good better believe your ass I'm ready Travis how you feeling you good let's go okay start the song but you gotta be quiet you gotta be quiet during this song okay I'm ready okay we did it we got everything out of the way now so Travis you can do whatever you need to do I feel like you've been holding in a fart and you just gotta let it rest I'm so hyped from just sitting here and not being able to say anything or do anything it's the intro man thanks we gotta get through it yep um well well here's the thing Joel like intros are important you you have to hook the people Joel oh it's [ __ ] Tom playing in the middle of this Tom has filled his room so much that the hallway in between his games now has a game I'm practicing for worlds go ahead um I used to edit out all the stuff in the background noise and believe it or not most of the time the background noise was Tom you know just just chugging a beer or just now it's all background it was me no or supposedly Travis actually getting up getting down ripping off cracking weird why is this me I don't understand what have I done to you all day I've only made fun of you for like I don't know 10 minutes this morning though I've not heard over there your joke didn't hit it hurts it hit just fine yes I didn't laugh at it I do think it is funny oh he laughed Carl left oh he could probably he almost had to go home from work he was laughing so hard I could tell no he he he specifically said he had to see what I said oh not the other way around all right got it got it got it okay um a few things so first off uh okay Tom what game are you playing back there by the way that is uh High hand uh Joel do you know what high hand is yeah it's an old em clearly all right good talk listen yeah let's just go on the podcast okay um so what do we got a few things first off this is the second week using zencaster to record video it uh while we record the video looks like potato cam it looks terrible but hey it actually came out looking pretty good so I was pretty happy with that hopefully the people watching YouTube are enjoying that if you are obviously you're watching it no yeah probably better I I like training we don't you know what I'm gonna ignore your Barb and I'm just gonna say I love how we establish that we don't have a pre-production meeting about this but then you proceed to have the production meeting within the first two minutes of the podcast we have stuff we gotta get out of the way what do the people need to know about what how we do Zen Caster I don't understand like do you want to tell them like what toys this paper you're ordering for your quality content quality content okay um so anyways I'm pissed that I didn't get a mod like you guys did let me okay what that was a good segue there let me just go done with it all I'm saying is we have to pay for it I'm gonna go play YouTube for a few do your skill by the way we're not getting paid by Zen Caster or pains and Caster that's what I'm trying to get to what I'm saying is now that we've even done this playing pinball right now what I'm saying is being now that we pay for Zen Caster I appreciate the patreon members that we recently got we recently got four new members thank you for those people that are supporting this channel Travis is gone Tom is checked out now so the whole reason people are so good at pinball the whole reason I brought up zinc Caster was to thank the new people that are supporting this podcast why they're supporting this I don't know I don't know but so they could hear you talk about Zen caster and how we spend their money that's that's it that's what they want that's it yeah thank you guys [Laughter] okay so we could check that box so Tom why are you pissed you pissed because uh Travis and I got a mod and you didn't is that right yeah yeah I mean it's pretty par for the course yeah yeah yeah um I don't maybe people just have sympathy for Travis I I think I ask kindly and then they just feel bad for Travis I think that's why he gets random things yeah I appreciate everything I get yeah bill I do I appreciate it all I'm with you so I would appreciate that you're with me that I appreciate whatever I get thank you what we want to talk about this is going to be a battle tonight is just gonna be a struggle to get through any of this isn't it that's what I'm Tom and I are all hocked up on caffeine oh that's true right right right I have Diet Dr Pepper Tom what are you drinking tonight I'm all out baby [Laughter] baby okay what we want to talk about is uh we talked about this while ago pinwoofer pinwoofer I have a full pinwoofer kit I have it in Godzilla the thing is awesome but when I originally reached out to the pinwoofer guy what I was asking about was whether or not he had some sort of headphone adapter kit because I use those in all my games started a really interesting conversation turns out he had one in development and he finally got it made and what's cool about his headphone adapter kit if you go to penwolfer.com It's called The CDU the coin door unit is it's more than just a headphone adapter kit it also has all of the sub functionality in it so he had this separate units this like bass booster unit he built that into the CDU and and Travis had voiced that he doesn't do anything to his games besides add a sub so Dan the guy at pinwoofers like I want Travis to try this if he's tried a bunch of Subs let's have him try this so that's why he sent he sent Travis one as well so what is cool is on this unit you got your normal knob for your for your volume you have a headphone jack for headphones but then you also have two knobs for a sub out you have a crossover and a volume knob for the sub and they're making fun of me because I'm using my hands and the last thing that they added which is really neat is they're four buttons on the bottom and those four buttons correlate to your buttons on the inside of the coin door so you can actually mess with the menu and any of that stuff from the outside without having to open your door and if you don't like that there's a switch on the back so you can disable those buttons If you have children that yes Travis is is directing this is how it used to be before we did video yeah just a lot of making fun of me while I talked yep right not making fun of you for the people that aren't actually listening because they tuned out during Zen Caster but they're still looking they're still here yep all right they can see me like signing what you're saying it makes sense we'll turn this into the serious very serious pinball yeah we got so what I will say is I've been testing the CDU the coinder unit oh Travis's camera's gone that would it would have been so good if it would have gone out while he was doing his stupid hand signals but instead anyways so the coinder unit it's it's actually awesome it works really really well it does everything I'd want a headphone adapter kit to do now what I will say is it's 150 bucks so if your goal is just to add a sub to the game there's another company that makes like a thirty dollar part and you can add a sub the problem with that is you have no control on the input feed to that so it could be coming in too hot you have no crossover you got nothing like that so if if your sub if you want to make your sub sound as good as possible that's where the base boost unit comes in or in this case the CDU unit would make your sub sound as good as possible then if you want to replace your backbox speakers which Travis also did he replaced his backbox speakers without a full amp yeah did you do it harmonica no comment so you can reach just the speakers and then the next step up would be you get the full-blown system with the amp and everything and replace the cabinet speaker the backbox speakers and all that so there's a lot of different options it just really depends on how far you want to take the audio and Travis what are your initial thoughts this was your first time experience again pinwoofer or anything what are your thoughts of the kit the CDU with the replace backbox speakers it's uh it's fantastic believe it or not I'm not saying that just because I got got a kit but no it's actually awesome whenever you're you're hearing the the bass and the just just the sounds the sounds are really rich and I wasn't sure how it would sound like if I could actually tell a difference between just having the regular sub with I guess I think it's like the penovators uh exactly so yeah so and that still sounds great like I'm not saying that sounds bad that sounds great it's just it almost feels like you're taking this like a step up or even two it is crazy fantastic and I've had it put on Godzilla and now just hearing that song go during a multiball when it works when the multiball actually starts by the way Tom you remember so so when that actually happens it's just like yeah you can you can hear the richness of the sound yeah and there's there's really no other way to describe it other than that if you're I guess what's the word for audio file if you're like really into that type of stuff you're gonna love something like this and you know for a home environment it's just it's excellent and I right now now I'm trying to figure out ways that I can get something like that for all my modern games that I have yeah especially if I want to listen to the music during it like it's just yeah it's a great product I'm thoroughly impressed by it and the the speakers that he replaced in the backbox were made that were designed by Dan in with pinball for specifically for this application so um I mean there's so many tiers you can do with replacing audio I mean there's people that replace the backbox speakers with the Kenwood speakers that are in the Les there are people that use other they make their own amps they do a whole bunch of stuff and I will say I'm this is the second thing of his I've installed the instructions are incredibly well done the it comes with everything you'd possibly need even the quality of like wire that's supplied it's not this dinky little thin gauge like it's it's legit he really takes pride in his product so I would just say if you are looking at improving the audio quality of any of your games definitely check out pinwoofer tell him tell him Joel and Travis gave him a thumbs whatever it doesn't we have no affiliation to it we're just saying I I just think it was cool that however many months back I reached out to him asking for a very specific thing turns out it was in development and here I am now with that and it works fantastic yeah so I think if you get this you will not be disappointed I agree I'd be very surprised if somebody got this and was just like yeah this this isn't any better than what I had before it's noticeably better yeah which is pretty cool and I haven't to be honest I I have not hooked up a sub so I haven't been able to test test the sub part of that but I've tested the rest of the system cabinet backbox full amp and now the headphone and it all works exactly how I'd like it to it's awesome it's a fantastic system for sure I will say right now if I ever sell my Godzilla and I happen to have another Stern I will be taking that out of Godzilla before I said it's not going to move it to another game yeah it's it's sorry but it's not going to go with the system so um yeah that was that um see this why we have a production meeting so we know what to go to but I'm what I'm I I just looked at my camera and what we're going to go to is Bond 60th check this out did you want to go to something else no no I thought you were right I'm gonna play mine while while you're talking about it uh no I'm right here we are going to talk about zencaster some more it's a fantastic program did you know we pay for it now like but we don't personally it's not like coming out of your piggy bank it's it's a great people picture it is actually yes it's coming off of my credit card uh anyways Bond 60th you can see it right here in the background um Zach with flipping out has let me borrow one I now have played it I've streamed it Tom you've had it a few weeks now Travis I'm still I'm assuming you've still just stared at a box is that right Keith won't bring me the game I don't I don't know what's going on I'm caressing mine right now so I streamed it and um I actually sent a link to Keith Keith actually watched the stream found a bug apparently I was robbed out of a out of a hold bonus or something he's like you were robbed with a thousand points which I needed those thousand points did yours come with a Shaker motor installed it no mine does not have a Shaker rotor installed I need to install one but I will um they forgot to do it in the factory that's the that's the story all 500 of them were made with no Shaker motor so now they're being made afterwards anyways why would you put a Shaker motor because it was you know I I anyways at least they didn't forget the topper good that's probably would have pissed off a lot of people I will I will absolutely plug my stream the flipping out stream on YouTube because I did a Topper Cam that is something that they have not shown well like in all the footage and all the everything the topper and how well it's integrated into the game is actually super impressive wait who are you who are you doing that for what who who Who's the company oh flipping out yeah every time I say it I Know Travis you know and who feels like because he works for they what are you talking they Stern Stern has not Stern has not shown this topper in action in my opinion very like there's adding that to the stream I hope I portray how well that Topper's actually integrated into the game I'm actually staring at it now and it's doing more stuff than what I thought it did it's it's like are you looking at it genuinely impressive like and so what I what a question that's come to my mind is that same topper is apparently supposed to work on the cornerstone game yeah just and I move over just a little bit a little bit more hope you want me off camera got it no I'm not saying that I'm saying just a little bit you can clearly see it it is a video from my angle oh and your hands in the way too anyways go ahead perfect that topper is supposed to be on the cornerstone game and I I doubt it's been integrated yet because I haven't sold it but I hope they integrate it to the same level as this game because it's it's truly the light shows that come off of that topper are really really impressive um besides that though the game kicks me in the butt every single time I play it I've never I've never heard anybody give that answer back to what is your GC on the game because the game has Co-op and it's awesome that's where your mind went to immediately yeah how do I want to play that game do I want to play by myself or do I want to play it with somebody else I want to play co-op because Co-op stream with Neil I jumped to conclusions the game is great the um the reels in person actually are really slick are really slick uh that's another thing that does not communicate well over video and I actually genuinely like the screen in the middle of the play field it's super convenient to see what to hit I will tell you what's displayed on that screen is very basic but the game is fast and there's very little that like stops the ball so you really don't have much time to look at anything besides the ball so being able to just look at the screen really quickly and immediately know what's going on is very helpful um the audio in the game is actually really well done like as you do different modes or whatever I and maybe it's just this is I'm not this isn't a jab at the Cornerstone Bond but when I had the quarterstone bond the audio at the time was not good and this is so much better integrated um now I know bond is getting better so it'll get there this is a complete game but I've had a blast with it my overall stance though is is this a game for everybody no this is a collector's item but if you can afford it and you are a collector I think you will genuinely enjoy this game because of everything that's in it it's a super fun game to play with other people whether it's Co-op or against them just because the ball times are so short and it's a it's a more challenging game but the shots are super satisfying Tom's playing the game he loves no I was trying to update the new code yeah we all like that's a good transition which we're about to use but I I'm gonna put a pin in that chance it's great transition but I like the game I like the game I have reached out to Keith I've talked to him about the game and he did say he goes I truly like he said he's like I wanted to make an unbeatable game or an almost unbeatable game because the game is hard to get through all the villains it's not start the villain modes you gotta beat all the villain modes like you gotta collect all the bonds there's a lot you have to do to get the wizard mode he said this whole time that he's played the game he's only got to the wizard mode twice and this is Keith elwin so Tom if you get to the wizard mode pat yourself on the back because that is impressive um it's a cool game I don't know as your opinion changed at all on it Tom recently or no I still love it it's not going anywhere nobody's gonna buy it anyways uh well it is it is surprising time there are Distributors that still have them but then there are already people selling them but that's every new game right um it's it's an expensive game it is but it is I don't it's just a fun game I I had a very different in the two weeks we I streamed uh Foo Fighters one week and then the very next week streaming Bond 60th just completely different experiences but they were both very very fun very very fun um insert Tom's transition oh updating games great great transition Tom you're updating your games yes today as of 420 every Eastern actually you couldn't because my Wi-Fi isn't oh it's poo poo yeah um every single Stern LCD game has a code update so they updated um the overall extern operating system so that there's there I don't know there's more to do with Insider connected but some of the games actually got actual code updates Foo Fighters just got an update I know I was reading through that there's a bunch of stuff they did there and Godzilla they added some new stuff in Godzilla which is pretty cool um but Travis one of the we had posted that we were going to record and somebody actually said uh has Travis or somebody found any exploits in Foo Fighters and so Travis have you read through the new code release and any of the exploits that you found have they patched them worked out them out or made them worse I don't know thoughts on that so they slightly nerfed something a little bit just based on I think it was the formula that they changed I haven't looked at the read the readme of it I was actually trying to pull that up right now but um I heard that I guess the formula for the last shot changed a little bit to where it's not going to be worth as much but I forget what the formula is exactly had something to do with I guess time remaining okay and something else but we're kind of getting the Weeds on that basically the the one thing that I kind of figured out in the game that there's really I don't see this getting patched necessarily because you still have to do a little bit of work but one of the things I really enjoy about pinball is that you try to break down the the geometry of it right and that's the one thing that they can't change after the fact so you try to find something that's a safe shot or a repeatable shot or you try to you try to correspond that with what the rule set is so you could find something that's worth the most amount of points and then you're very efficient with your shots and one of the things that caught my eye when I was watching the reveal stream was that Ray Raymond at one point had hit the targets and when he hit the stand-up targets it ricocheted back to I guess that's the 180 or what do we what's that which targets which targets the stand up or the drop Target sorry the drop targets yeah drop targets right right yeah and so and then it goes to that little 180 right and then the right ramp right and then it goes back to the upper flipper so one of the things on it and I will tell everybody this do not sleep on the van mods yes and what happens is is those targets when you drop them down it leaves that paddle exposed and this is when you drop all three down so the nuances I and you you guys can correct me if I get this wrong but I believe the Nuance is if there's still one up then that's kind of like what your bonus X would be if you hit that paddle while while another Target is still up I think I thought it was if you hit the paddle when they're not all down doesn't it pop right that's what I'm saying that's what I'm saying when there's still one up yeah or maybe even two I don't know I I think if it's just like the paddle's exposed and there happens to be a drop Target still up then you hit it that helps with your bonus X I think so it's a good thing yeah yeah okay okay I don't really focus on that what I focus on is getting all the targets down because then that exposes the paddle so every single time you hit that paddle whatever insert that you're on whether it's like I think it's what engine speakers and something else it has to Shield is it Shield is that what's Shield well it's a bomb there's a bomb right the bomb yeah which engine and speakers yes okay there it is yeah bomb speakers engine yep that's it so basically when you hit the paddle it'll level up whatever insert it's not speakers it's a shield it's a picture of a shot of his speakers no I'm looking at right now engine there's a shield and there's a bomb okay actually here let's just let's settle this right now I know for a fact this is on the rule cards so if somebody has a Foo Fighters that happens to be like five feet away from them if they could look at the roll card real quick uh you want me to get out of my chair just squeaky chairs with sugar on top so anyhow I I know that this is there so you hit the paddle and that'll level up whatever you have going on and basically you can hit the paddle Ricochet it around hold your upper right foot okay it says bomb speakers engine but this the icon of speakers is a shield so apparently you read and I look at pictures that's what I'm I'm saying we're both right I what you can read actually I know oh okay thank you thank you okay so anyhow so you hit the paddle Target it goes up through that little 180 you hold up or flipper up and the ball will hit off there back to the paddle Target again and then it's actually pretty safe coming back to the Flipper the reason why to hit the pedal Target after it goes around that ramp though are you holding up the flipper just hold it up you don't trickles over and hits it again yep so and I tested this out on now I think it's been four different versions of this game and it's held true on all four versions so different setups different locations everything yeah and essentially what happens is is you're able to level up whatever you have lit a lot easier fairly safe and it's part of the geometry of the game reason why this is important once you do start your modes you can have higher scoring less shots more time and all that really just adds up to just more value overall so I had basically I think I played it was either New Orleans or it might have been uh Roswell but either way I ended up having like a UFO stacked with it which is your spot a shot and I basically sped run through the whole mode in less than 10 seconds sorry speed run thank you through the whole thing I I can read a little bit anyways I did a speed run through it and I mean it was worth a lot of points I forget how much it was I was just I was shocked at how quickly the score just like went Burr like the points just came yeah and yeah you have to set it up a little bit but now that I've done that I'm kind of like well ball one if I have the ball save at first I was going for Overlord but now I'm not so sure and you can plunge straight into the targets you can you can so I've gotten to where I tried it for a few games to where I was just trying to level up you know the paddle and level up everything else that's there and yeah I saw my scores just go up a lot more than what I was expecting so it almost feels like that the way that the game is set up now it's worth like really focusing on targets early on because you already know that you got to have an upgrades yeah right and you already know that you have to hit three white shots anyways right so it's it's bound to happen so how many times do you have to hit it to maximize it it was six and now I think the levels go up to seven so just to communicate that to people who are checking out but what's going on is uh when when all the drops are up there's it's a it's a scrolling light so it's it's going between each one so as soon as you hit one drop it'll lock in whatever that is so if it was on speaker it'll stay on speaker then you're trying to hit the other two drops down once all three are down it's actually a timed thing before they pop back up so what you have to do is you have to you've dropped them down so I think you've got level one or do you have to hit it you have to hit the paddle once or it's just once you drop them down you actually get a level I think with the once you drop them down then you got to start hitting it but I think what happened now is that you can actually I think you get like double value or something like that with whenever you hit it the first time I I'm not sure what it is I know that they made an adjustment with the new code but I do know the way that the feed is if you're quick with it and your aim is true you can fully level up pretty quickly I mean well with what you're saying you know you hit it it goes through and then on the way down it's hitting it again there's two but that's it's in the timer I think before the drops comes back up resets every time you hit the paddle but I think you there's a short amount of time where if you that paddle's exposed you can like level up your thing so the best way that I can compare this to is remember this is Tanya's code Tanya and Ray day Tanya did Deadpool so Deadpool if you're gonna go into a battle the team ups are huge whether or not you get Domino or dazzler or Wolverine is huge you but once you've qualified Wolverine that's it you just qualified them there's no like leveling system The Wolverine this is that same concept of more points more time or less shots but you can just astronomically like increase the the power up um which happens to be your van power up so it is to be honest it's something you could completely ignore if you wanted to you could absolutely ignore this entire system in the game and just focus on starting cities and working your way through towards wizard mode or whatnot but um it is a really cool like this is definitely going to be I'm excited to watch some tournaments in this where it's like okay what's he gonna do he needs to get this amount of points okay he's getting his thing leveled up but is it I forget but it's once you get it like let's say I level up the speakers to three but I haven't started a city and I drain on the next ball or my speakers still leveled up or is it gone when you drain or you don't drain so you don't really know that's a good question now I'm trying to figure that out I think I'm pretty sure [Music] it started yeah don't play a game real quick I don't have my Foo Fighters yet so you're Ellie is on his way though right yeah supposedly yeah it's um I don't know I will just say this is uh this is it's an excellent game this is it's a lot of fun genuine you guys know how much I love it in the street you guys you guys genuinely know how much I love Deadpool and what I will tell you is that shit's leaving Foo Fighters to stay there's some truth to that so when I'm Deadpool is actually leaving Deadpool is actually leaving I was just kidding are you serious nope Deadpool is actually leaving um why for two reasons two reasons um reason number one my collection I can have four pins and having a game like Cactus Canyon in the house I realized how much I enjoyed having that type of game uh a more simple more approachable game I know this is I know your feelings so for me to get a game like Cactus Canyon or another cgc type game I have to sell a game so it's between Deadpool and Godzilla what I will say is when I had the that other game in the house when I had uh like I found Deadpool was the game I played the least also when I stream the game it is a very uh linear playing game so it's like you're playing the same three battles even if when you get through the next guy you have to play the same three battles again they're more complicated but what did I like about Deadpool or what do I genuinely like about Deadpool I do like the modes or the battles and I do like the shot geometry the the katana ramp shot the way that that squiggles through the Playfield is awesome and I love the left orbit to the katana ramp I love that on a premium so in my mind Foo Fighters when it comes to shot geometry has has like taken that thought of having the ball whiz around and squiggle all over the Playfield like I I feel like the thing that I liked about Deadpool it went up a notch you know some of the shots and Foo Fighters and the way that it goes around the Playfield is super like the kinetus is the kinetic satisfaction is huge I really like I almost feel like it's it's more than Deadpool um and then on top of that the code feels like they took all the great things on Deadpool and just went further with it so instead of having three battles you now have six cities um you have the team up is now the van power-up but it's even bigger like there's more you can do there and they're continuing to add things the bot frenzy mode is awesome the um they just added in the new code it's some sort of radio mode I don't know I haven't haven't had a chance to do it so I just feel it's like Tanya's first effort was Deadpool and he killed it but now that he's had an amazing game I think he's just it's just experience and he's built upon that and taken it one step further so I'm not saying I mean like is Foo Fighters better than Deadpool I don't know if I can commit to that but this some of the things that I really love about Deadpool I feel like Foo Fighters is doing just as well if not better so Deadpool is out not for Foo Fighters it is on the way out um the other side of that is they're doing another run so I know with Deadpool so I know this right now is the time to sell because there's about to be a whole bunch more on the market um so yes unfortunately Deadpool is leaving next week so this video right here will probably be the last time you see Deadpool oh what what do you mean it's leaving next week like the guy's coming to pick it up next oh you already have a buyer I already have a buyer ready to go tiny tear tiny wow I'm gonna miss it there's no way I'm not gonna miss it I I genuinely love the game but when you have a four pin collection unfortunately I can't do what Tom does and just shove another pin between my games Tom's shoving a pin behind him he's like yeah he is it's unbelievable but um so yeah I I had to make it I had to make a tough choice and if it came between Deadpool and Godzilla I'm sorry I'm gonna I'm Gonna Keep Godzilla that's that's why I couldn't help but giggle I I wasn't laughing at what you were saying but I was kind of laughing at what you were saying features a little bit is it because you were you were talking about how you were kind of running out of room and I'm just looking at Tom just sitting there like this he has a pin directly behind him he literally could turn I I think he literally turned around and started playing but from your seat without getting out of your seat how many pins can you touch because you have Rick and Morty outside of frame honestly Joel I think we had a foreign nobody will ever doubt whether or not we actually play Pinball thanks that's true that's true yeah any other twippy nominees so uh yeah so I A Game's leaving in my collection um Travis you have there's two games right that just left your collection well no The Beatles left a long time a long time ago what just tell me real quick what was the game that left your house today what was that game uh a game that was called uh Toy Story four oh boy oh boy it happened everybody where are you gonna miss that one so and my twins were pissed he has two little girls and he broke their hearts today oh yeah yeah jjp is clearly they've cornered the market for the six-year-old female demographic this is a serious question did either of your daughters play the game with you standing behind them and then they happen to hit a shot and you do a fist pump did that happen yes it did happen Okay so the marketing material was spot on that's what I'm hearing it was they knew exactly how owners would play this game well I just did I just could give you the look of death when it left does Monica know is Monica in town yeah she held she helped me pack it up she probably backed the whole thing up let's be real Tom she packed the whole thing up she she dropped it out of the house I stood there and pointed yeah that thing is heavy yeah you probably want to do that yeah I would wrap it if it was me I'd wrap it again so I mean you're doing a great job yeah I I legitimately I'd even think of my daughter's like getting mad about this because they play it every now and again but not enough to be here's the deal my girls they don't work they're six years old they can't afford a twelve thousand dollar pinball machine so they're you know they were just enjoying yeah they need to be but you know I I was just sitting here in my office minding my own business trying to get some work done and all of a sudden I just heard like a blood curling screen oh no oh yeah and I thought somebody was hurt so I go around the corner like what happened well she literally she looked at me and then she looked back at the empty space looked back at me and I could just see Tears start welling up and then she looked back and I was like oh no so I wasn't even gonna say goodbye oh no so I realized what she does she's like where did Toy Story go and then she pulled out the daddy she was like Daddy where'd it go and I'm like oh budge and so I told her I said hey it's like let's play Godzilla instead look here yeah how'd that go y'all know no I don't want to play that crappy game here's what she said [Laughter] right here I was like one I was like okay you love Toy Story you love the theme buzz like how dare you call Godzilla oh that's yeah yeah I was just like go to your rooms think about what you've just done go print off I know she can barely read but print off print off inside and say what's that number one game read that out loud well okay so but yeah when she said that I was just like okay I was like I'm sorry and she's asking well are we gonna get it back so I had to basically I had to be I had to be like [Laughter] you're screwed man so here's what made it worse guys I was standing there trying to figure out what to say and she was still crying so it was like one of those things where she was like halfway in between like yelling and just kind of sniffling and you know like when you get really upset and you see somebody crying and they're like shaking their head like yes but you haven't asked him a question because just because they're trying to keep themselves together well she's doing that and meanwhile I hear my other twins voice from atop the stairwell yelling out Maddie why are you crying and then she can't even know oh no she comes down and then she sees Toy Story's gone I'm like yeah and it just happened again there he goes there goes his camera yeah I wish my camera would have went out while I was trying to deal with this so she ends up looking at it and she looks at me and she's upset too but see she's the youngest one so she doesn't cry she gets pissed uh so she's looking she looks at me she's like where's Toy Story I'm just like with the street so you've got five seconds to answer this question I was just like uh uh and then my other twin she stopped crying she was like this and she stops and she looks at her and she's like Dad sold it foreign you were just you were just legitimately scared of two six-year-old girls today I after she said that I legitimately I just got out of there I just went back upstairs have you talked to him have they talked to you since I mean it's been a little sketchy the feelings are still hurt it's still raw right now I'm not sure I'll take a few days that's awesome take him to Target get them a ten dollar plastic toy ah yeah they'll smooth things over dad of the year then hey Tom have you ever sold a game that made Neil cry has that happened no no okay just checking oh that's unfortunate man I I get I know I get heckled because I take my friends and family thoughts into consideration with games that I've had and not evidently well well yeah but the when Toy Story did leave because Zach had let me borrow one of those that was one that both of my kids realized they were like they were there was a game they genuinely liked they genuine now you know they're they're almost five and three how much they just they like Toy Story they weren't actually playing the game by themselves but that was a game they wanted to watch me play um so I don't know I I see I see why there are families that probably absolutely love that game and I do know I had there was I used to have a main cabinet that I had built um myself and and I had a trackball in it and one of the games that was on it was Simpsons bowling and that was the one of the only games my one of my nieces played and when I ended up selling that main cabinet she came to visit once and she's like where's Simpsons bowling like she was legitimately upset that I had sold it so how dare we you know sell our things we got to be careful but yeah I probably just officially removed Two Souls from the pinball buying community in the future so they could have got into this hobby but hey now they don't want to get attached to anything because Daddy's just gonna sell it we were talking about free stuff earlier if anybody wants to send a Toy Story 4 back to me I will gladly accept it I mean people are sending stuff to you guys yeah I think Tom's do I think Tom's due for somebody what a beauty that Tom Graf is well Tom just more shirts for anybody I was gonna say the stuff that's been sent to Travis has all been genuinely to make fun of them in some capacity so you know it you can just continue to be a true professional like you are Tom or just mess up you know on a on a major stage in front of thousands of people and maybe you'll get stuff for it so you choose you you choose what you do whatever take whatever path you want to take them I was just helping Escher Jason and Keith okay I decided to only play two balls Joel that's fair that's fair yeah and then you helped Bowen Carl and uh Donovan he's a giver he's a giver he gets in that final situation and he thinks how can I help these other things you know yeah you know I've been I've been focusing on me this whole tournament but you know what let's see what I can do for these other guys yeah that's fair is there is there anything in the uh code update to help with uh tell Travis to help with Godzilla he's helpless uh somebody did write in and said there is some sort of opto on the vertical like there is a part there that should have detected that and they explained it in some capacity but at this point it doesn't matter didn't so didn't they change the code to that a little bit to where you can get the Planet X now without yeah or something like that somebody texts me about that but I haven't read through so tell me about my skill level I'm pretty excited to do that because as of right now what to as of right now the only way to get to Planet X which is the final well there's a final final wizard mode which is if you beat everything is that you can play like king of monsters now as one of your choices and but then you can play the other wizard modes oh I don't I I just read me Planet X as of right now there's only four cities no I'm not just busy I don't know I don't have any answer for you I mean you you can read it right you can pull it up I don't know I thought I will but Planet X the only way to get to Planet X originally was you had to get through all the cities but to get through all the cities you actually had to get through all three tier two modes so it's a lot it's a lot you had to do to get to Planet X but apparently there's a setting where I think once you've played like one of all the things like you only have to do one city but one tank mode one bridge mode one blah blah blah blah there's an option then where you can then choose Planet X instead of going to another city you could go to Planet X if you want to experience that so so you can skip cities now you can skip basically is what it is okay so is that City still lit I think it's I think I I think it's yeah it's basically whatever I don't know I skimmed it I'm gonna misquote it you should read it but what is cool is for somebody like myself that may never see Planet X on my own there's another option that I could do to try to do that and they've adjusted scoring too where if you actually go that way things are worth different points and blah blah blah so all right so let's look I have it right here okay go ahead who's a better reader I think let's let Tom read no no I'm watching the painter okay okay let's not interrupt him then let's let him watch that paint uh yeah so listeners can just look it up themselves too oh nobody's gonna read it perfect but it does say play any like tank any Bridge yep Tesla Kaiju leave Tokyo select was it City or Light Select City again any battles or cities that are bypassed When selecting Planet X early are no longer available for the rest of the game so there you go so it's really yeah Zilla power up if you go to Planet X though you've committed because there's Planet X once you're done with Planet X doesn't it stop it doesn't it stop the isn't the game over I mean yeah yeah but I mean it like I don't know if you're a ball too and you finish Planet X I think the game's over like I think if you go to Planet X you're done afternoon no would that really happen what I think right now the code's always been that way if you actually oh yeah if you finish it right the game's over like there's those of you bypass can you imagine somebody doing that in a tournament they're like I bypass I go to Planet X and they're like okay game's over no ball three for you no I don't know I don't know Tom is saying check out the power-ups what happened with the power with the power-ups when when the Planet X unlock adjustment is set to easy completing the least the first hurry up for in Planet X will unlock a second choice for Godzilla Power Up level eight the first choice is always lighting the mini wizard mode you didn't pick for from level four the second choice if available will be light king of monsters oh and then any wizard mini wizard mode Skip by choosing light king of monsters is no longer available for the rest of the game but that's only if you have it set to early so you could go to Planet X and then choose to go to king of monsters and I'm pretty sure at the end of king of monsters the game's over like it stops the ball's over but this is you have to set your game to easy that's not gonna happen in competition this isn't going to be a thing you can do in competition so don't they have a Carl yeah probably so what do you think they should rename early or was it is it early are you implying they should name I'm not just implying I'm not saying that they should yeah I mean part of me would be you know part of me should feel offended but hey if Keith wants to know he can name whatever he wants in a pinball machine Joel and I will take it with a smile on my face Joel mode but I'm telling you whoever's gonna set their game to easy I don't want them to be confused I see Joel medium hard and Carl which one do I pick default king of monsters initial should be Joel wow okay you know Keith you do you man we're not we're not here to we're not here to tell you how to do your code but um I don't know I don't know how I'd ever how do I have that conversation with my Dad hey Dad guess what they've made they've named they've named a difficulty setting in a pinball machine after me oh really yeah it's the easiest one it's the one that they have simplified it as simple as possible and removed all difficulty yeah and Joel hey I'm fine I'm fine with me if if somebody put an Easter egg in a game in which you select like somebody actually picks the Joel mode right and then when they close the coin door the damn game just shuts itself off no there well in Scooby-Doo if you try to pick adult mode there's an adult setting and it won't let you it picks it and then there's a call out like haha fun try but not this game you know so that's actually pretty funny yeah you pick Joel mode and it'd be like no you're you're more what is it it's like it feels better with yourself or something we're all out of rubber bands uh you're better than this that's what it says you can believe in yourself you're better than this yeah that'd be sweet like the pinball machine just gives you positive affirmations but to get it you have to pick droll mode that's what you're saying it has a sit down talk better than this a little pep talk oh man that is pretty sweet though that they that they figured out a way to pull in Wizard modes earlier in the game to where it's not necessarily like I guess making the modes up front easier so the modes are still the same default settings as themselves so well that's pretty sweet what I think is interesting is in in key Southern games he's added the ability to just just you know hold down the flippers before you start and that's how you get to what is it um Battle Royale and um Avengers and then in Jurassic Park you can go straight to whatever Escape new blar so is that available yet well he knows unless I misread you guys both have it up but unless I've misread I'm not I still haven't seen the ability to skip directly to something so I'm that means we're I bet like I bet there will be something but that's cool that they've obviously put in all this time and energy into some of these crazy wizard modes and now to bring them into the game but not just hand it to you but but now in the game in kind of a more accessible way for a player like myself that's pretty slick I think that's really creative um to Keith and um what's his coder's name I feel bad crap Rick Rick Nagel right yeah props to props to them for thinking that through I should have said bill s Billy boy that code is so good yeah no uh so I guess then they since they updated everything that means maybe some of the games yeah well I assume since they update everything everything basically just got like a firmware update but then some of the games did get code updates so Foo Fighters has more code Bond 60th has more code or they've done some tweaks bonds bond is no bond is now 0.90 so I think okay so they did add stuff I checked turtles turtles was nothing new um and then Deadpool was nothing new um that I checked but every 19 games there's 19 games so I mean Tom has all of them so I don't know let's uh speaking of that uh Tommy have another new game Godfather man Godfather is in the house you have it tomorrow um thoughts thoughts on Godfather you've had it you've played it um it's yours I like it yeah that's why I bought it so comparing it to I mean I was standing right next to you when you were playing it in tpf yeah um what's the home experience how like starting to learn how to play the game like the rules okay we're at tpf I had no idea what I was doing I'm like oh I'm shooting this and it's starting it's like no that's not actually what's up yeah and is there like I Know Carl is already just tearing it apart yeah I can't get a crazy stupid billions I'm not doing that stuff yet but it's but he that's just the way that's Carl yeah so he's he's going and finding well let me do this plus this plus this and do it in this order and boom boom boom boom bang and then boom 32 billion voids so um I I have not um nearly like beat the game didn't he at tpf or he did something he almost got through the whole window on the bottom okay like I think we alluded to this on the than the last podcast but the lady behind us was legitimate she was not messy yeah she's like get off the game kid she uh she had her I think she had like a broken arm at the time and she you know thank God because she started there's a reason for that did she have like a little like shopping bag did she have the sling or the she had a dog with her no she did not talk was she does she even know she was at a pinball convention like yeah but I I don't I I re I understand why she would say it I was actually listening to another podcast and that's what the the guy said you know like hey if you're at a show you know good good on you to be able to blow up the game but if there's people waiting behind you maybe you only play ball I mean Neil did say he was like he did say the spoils no you paid your entry fee you got just as much right to stay on the game first starting like a two three yeah four player game and being a single player yeah yeah yeah that person deserves a kick in the nuts I'm sorry I'll give you that or if you restart a game oh like yeah after and then you just you start playing it now nobody's behind you feel free but if people are waiting don't do that crap but what to Neil's defense I I told him no I was like he's about to like I wanted to see him crash the game yeah he had two more windows to go and I was like I want to see this wizard mode I want to see what's coming up so I was because even he was like should I yeah should I and we're like no like no so it's our fault you take her soul right now you just keep going I'm like over there well yeah I mean I want to play this one it's her own fault I don't know why she didn't know that was the Neil graph behind I don't even queue up behind nil in an actual tournament so yeah shame on that lady she should have known it was uh well cool so you have it though and now that you're actually starting what would you say I mean you you have GNR I think still and I no no GNR I I actually traded towards Godfather well coach I mean GNR once you really start to wrap your mind around all the different patches and different things you can do it's it's actually can be a pretty complex game do you feel like this game is um I don't know I think it's deep but it's not super deep okay like I I think stuff is achievable in the game I just haven't done it yet um but I don't I don't think it's like the deepest Jersey Jack game but but saying that I really like the rules um I I like it better in Guns and Roses um I it is like a mishmash of some of the rules from other games a little bit like the cash outs yeah and uh on Guns and Roses um there is a lot of multiball but uh I mean that's kind of par for the course yeah I mean that doesn't really bother me um I mean I could certainly turn off all the try to turn off all the ball save and it would be a hard game it seemed fast it seems fast but now I know at tpf a lot of people myself included our complaints were because there's so many diverters you really don't know where the ball is gonna go a lot yeah but they've played it I'm assuming you're starting to understand yeah exactly yeah and you know honestly that's how Twilight Zone was the first time I ever played it oh you know when I walked up the Twilight Zone the first time I was like I don't know what the hell's going on here the ball's shooting out over there and over there and there's magnet grabbing it now and what the hell's going on and you loved it no I didn't love it at first but I did love it a couple months later well good well I before I owned one props to jjp for announcing a game having a bunch built they were very they're very they've done that they did it with Toy Story as well like immediately shipping games and um yeah I mean for you there's my Foo Fighters because you didn't place you didn't place your order where's my Foo Fighters for it's coming it's coming oh you did not place your your order for uh Godfather until after tpf so I mean it's you got it really pretty quick and I think there's Distributors that have them like in stock already ready to go so that's pretty cool that's really really cool um I don't know Travis If you you haven't played you haven't played any more you have oh he's shaking his head do you wanna do you wanna you know talk about that I mean no you thought it's a fun game it's it's on location here in uh the St Louis area and I mean that the only down downfall of it is it's two dollar coin drop so oh no you know I mean it's weird though obviously the percentage of that compared to how much the game's actually worth yeah like it's really low but yeah that's kind of like a mental hurdle too because you're like oh there goes eight quarters okay you think two dollars is a lot Zach McCarthy told me that there's a bond 60th for four dollars a play yeah but that's that's in Colorado everything's like a thousand dollars more and that game's hard yeah I don't know through four dollars so it's hilarious though it's kind of like I was having this discussion with somebody and it's kind of getting off but I won't go too too deep in the weeds here but it's just like at what point is coin drop too much like you know you know what I mean four bucks a game four is insane like a dollar that feels right I feel okay yeah but putting a dollar into a game with no chance of replays I feel just fine about that because it is what it is I might get 10 20 worth of excitement for the whole family and everything like it just is what it is but the two dollars I don't know they just that's really good I like that one I like doing the two for three playing and then if there's any replays just leave them and just would you tell somebody hey do you want to play this and if it's a two dollar play would you feel better if it was five for three like five bucks for three twice I I would do that go do that because then math checks out I'm saving a dollar Joel and then I'll go to 7-Eleven and I'll get a big goal and then it'll just keep getting matches and play all night well yeah so here we go I remember the days when I played Godfather at the bar and paid two dollars and just used my replays the whole time just to keep going people thought you were so cool and then you got home and your daughters were weird I couldn't believe it yeah your daughters were waiting for you at the foot of the stairs where's Toy Story but anyhow the game's fine look at the shining it goes sit on the couch dead so here's the weird part though like I even so Monica played it a couple times too and she's just like yeah I can't I don't want to pay two dollars anymore so it was one of those weird things that I was almost like is it worth just buying the game and holding on to it for two months and just playing the hell out of it and then reselling it and we probably come out on top technically because we'll play like a lot more than what you know two dollars per like I was trying to do the math in my hair twins would love it yeah yeah it's definitely definitely for six-year-olds but that's really weird when you start doing the math and you're just like yeah I need to buy this twelve thousand dollar toy to save two sales yeah it was just weird but I don't know I mean I'll play it every now and again but I think it's tough too because the rules until you actually grasp what's going on there's just so much going on that I felt like I was just putting two dollars in for a slot machine and hoping for the best but it was fun though yeah like I'm genuinely it shoots very well it shoots great and even though it is multiball heavy it this layout makes sense at least with multiball whereas I felt like GNR it just didn't feel like felt like it messed but this does like I don't feel like it's overwhelming in that sense and so yeah I had fun with it but it was it was unique because that at the time and it probably still holds true to right now that Godfather was next to I think it was gtf which was next to Foo Fighters so I basically saw all three of those and then they did have a Scooby-Doo at this location also but the Scooby-Doo was already gone I I think yeah it was not there anymore any idea why probably it wasn't working I'm just speculating yeah I have no idea I just know it was not there but that being said I I've known other places that have it and they said yeah it earns really well or since it's Scooby-Doo but at this particular place it was just it was not there hmm yeah I haven't I don't know if you played Scooby-Doo since tpf Tom I didn't even played a tpf oh that's right yeah yeah um I know there's been a code update for that but um yeah I don't know I don't know how to see the scores during a multiplayer game yet well that was the other thing that was the other thing too I got contacted by somebody I was like yeah we had to add our I guess launch party and then when the game finished we realized we had no idea what everybody took because the scores and I got the scores don't show at the end yeah the school well the scores showed at the end okay and then when it starts scrolling it never came back to them and they had no way to bring the scores out flippers would do anything to bring it back but it was just gone they can fix that but it's unfortunate that it made it yeah don't play Pinball for scores I don't obviously but if I went to a tournament I would be yes I've scored 800 points on this Bond 60. I was just ripping with my brother go off yep um but no so I played I did play good thing Stern put the reels on your uh you're you're buying 60s for you yeah I don't know why the big deal four digits is plenty you know it's I'm good with that that's you know that's that's plenty yeah um you were saying gtf G2 I was saying gtf yeah go for it tell tell us all you you're getting one yes this you have a sound board that's him yeah he's talking but you can you can change your voice you've had this power the whole time you you interrupted me with an air horn the other day and you could have just come in with this God voice just oh I don't know he's trying to yeah we'll save it that's pretty great that's is there is there another side of that is there a high voice uh [Music] uh so yeah gtf is still gtf um GT I don't I don't know what else to say about that it's just I played in a couple games and uh did you have okay so the games that we played at tpf those came from playing were played pretty much non-stop for three days and what we experienced I was standing right next to you you hit those stand-up Targets in front of the tank and the ball jumps over your flippers did you experience that again on location I know what you're setting me up here for Joel did I experience it again it took a lot okay okay I did not nope I did not I had no air balls over my flippers at all oh so do you feel did you see anything were the stand-up targets changed or because they said there's a fix they're doing no they were they were jacked up I just never aimed for it the whole game [Laughter] no I so I sent I think I sent you guys the picture I don't I don't know it just so I wanted to give it a chance because obviously we played it at DPF and I was like okay you know you're you're playing roulette whether the games are going to be set up great or not or you know dialed in and I saw that this particular game was advertised as just being set up the day before so Monica was like hey let's go have a date let's go you know play Pinball go hang out have a beer whatever get there and I'm like I'm gonna play gtf first and I'm just going to get straight into it so I played it as soon as it opened up because there was a couple other people and I decided to inspect the targets and I wanted to see what it looked like and legitimately they were none of them were aligned one was like already up like front just kind of like hanging down another one was just kind of split and so I was just like man I just I can't aim for it I just played it never hit it once except for maybe like in multiball a couple of times but even then I just I never aimed for it at all and I mean my score still went like over 200 250 so I mean you can get points without touching that at all did you have um did you have any flipper weakness issue like that's something we we were there's one ramp in the game it's a left ramp and and you it got to the point where you can't even make the shot the right the right flipper was pretty soggy it was and and I had a few times that the ball just like would not get caught by the magnet at the left orbit yeah so it's something for her to get up the buck is a magnet and yeah yeah there was a few times even though the shot wasn't really strong the ball still just went right past it when it was supposed to catch it so you know I I don't know it was I was surprised by The Experience because I will say I did have a Hot Wheels before at my house and that thing was built like it really well yeah like no pun intended it was built like a tank and then they built a game that literally tries to look like a tank and it doesn't feel like a tank so I don't know yeah it looks like a tank or it's Bell I could take you pick one yeah I was I was just surprised and I don't know I mean it's I I definitely I'm still interested in the game itself because I think the theme is so goofy and I think that's a good thing for pinball I think you do need light-heartedness I think you need to have goofy I don't I don't mind that at all I just the design is what it is I mean it's like anything else we all know this if you put targets that are up close to the flipper it's gonna be dangerous and if you put it smack dab in the middle of the Playfield like you're gonna have issues and we all knew that Joel as soon as we played our first game on it we looked right at it and we were just like this is going to be dangerous and what happened no more than like five seconds later you could hear the ball Hitting off the glass and it's yeah it's in the trough and so I just you know that is what it is and I don't know anything that could possibly prevent that other than putting a deflector up on top of that and we've talked about that before but even then it just it makes for a difficult game and in terms of enjoyment when it comes to that and the last thing you want is a major part of the Playfield to where you totally ignore it yeah especially if it's the middle yeah you know what I mean because it's like the only time you ever hear and Tom can bounce for us that you hear hey don't touch the middle don't do anything like that it's in competitive settings yeah right like attack from Mars you hear that all the time like try not to go for the visor unless you're you know doing a skill shot or something like that and so this right here it's just like okay you have something that's smack dab in the middle of the play field that's close to the flippers and you hit it you're ignore it yeah yeah yeah yeah that's the thing I I just think to me it's a design flaw if you if you have to purposely ignore something completely because of how dangerous the shot is I mean it's one thing to ignore something because it's just not valuable at that time but to ignore something completely because not because of the difficulty but just because it's just like it's total utter chaos like I don't know I I totally get you I mean I I'm not a pinball designer so I probably shouldn't talk but my I would assume don't make a Mech that that when you hit almost guarantees a drain and don't make a Mech that you only get to experience way deep in the code I mean that's something that you know if you have an upper Playfield but you have to qualify or do this this and then the other before you can get up to it like don't do that because you're gonna have a novice step up and that's all they want to do is experience the upper Playfield and they don't know how to get to it um you know don't do same thing with like um lower playfields or any sort of Mech you know make sure that you can make that somewhat approachable or accessible for anybody if even if it's just like the Duke Kaboom ramp in in Toy Story the first time you hit the left ramp it pops up and you have a chance to hit it now once you hit it once then you have to do something to qualify it to get to be able to hit it again I love it love that that way anybody can step up to the game and experience that Mech but then it's not all in your face over and over again but I don't know I I'm with you of that I don't like I'm not trying to be mean but I don't know how American pinball can save gtf like they sure when Houdini had flipper issues they found out it was like a power supply so what did they do they sent power supplies out to previous owners I mean I do think if they find issues with the flippers or if there's going to be some sort of fix so that the targets don't bend backwards I do trust that they will provide some sort of solution to keep the ball down so at least you have a fighting chance to save the ball with your I think I think they already came out and said it's they've apparently they have two yeah but but they're not out yet so maybe it will come out but I still just think it's unfortunate that you have this really cool thing that honestly you have to avoid and and then on the other side of it is the stream the the stream that Jack and the American guys did you have American pinball employees telling the audience don't hit the tank and it's like okay so it's I I this is supposed to be a big selling point of your game and you're telling people ignore it don't do it just don't do it and they're they're doing it they're avoiding the whole stream they're avoiding the tank and it's just I don't know I I mean what you're saying is valid though I mean and you don't have to be a designer to know what you like whenever you're playing pinball I think everybody out there that's listening or anybody that plays pinball their opinion is just as valid on it because everybody knows what's fun for them as an individual and different people have different tasting and game I'm sure that there's tons of people out there that do legitimately enjoy gtf I'm sure they are out there yeah but it's just you know I I don't think you have to be you know great at designing games or even know how to design a game to know what you like in a Mech and what feels enjoyable you know and the last thing you want to do is have something and we're getting getting into design Theory here but the last thing you want in a game is to have something that's the Easy Shot to hit but yet is the shot that will punish you the most because that is a recipe for disaster for new players and for young players and that could lead to a lot of frustration because pinball already it's difficult for a lot of people that are brand new to it and if you have like a for instance there's gtf next to Godfather right and it looked totally different like they looked on two different levels and yet with Godfather even if you didn't know what was going on that you still knew that you had to hit the tommy gun guy or whoever that is in the very back and you could tell you know what you were doing hitting that and the same with Foo Fighters right you you could see the ramps and everything you could see the overlord you could see what the shots were doing and so that was the thing you weren't necessarily getting punished for shots that are fun shots yeah so that that's like that's a big difference and for a lot of people when you talk about games and money that they're going to spend to bring a game in you want a game that's just fun to play over and over and over again well thinking of Center mix uh like I know when I first had stranger things like I knew those drop Targets in the demogorgon were death like this is oh Tom his his game the duck sound his game updated um the demogorgon um was it was death but the more that I think about it when you plunged the ball it's going to pretty much guaranteed hit one of the drop targets down and so as a novice if you're lucky and you happen to get the ball through where the one drop Target you already hit down you could you could pop that ball back and that's all you have to do you only have to get past it one time for it to drop that ramp and now a novice gets to experience bashing the demogorgon so it's it's a brutal Mech but it's it should be accessible enough for a novice to experience bashing the demogorgon and then they know to avoid it like or hopefully they like that's I don't know that's to do whatever they want to with it yeah so I just I we've talked about this that if the if the tank instead of it being stand-ups would have been like two stand-ups on a drop Target where you drop it down and then the ball feeds into the tank and either comes at a subway or is delivered back to you in some sort of a safe manner that Mech could have been so much more like usable but the fact that it's always stand-up targets and that Ball's going to come back at you at an accelerated rate I don't know I just don't know I don't know but so Tom you're buying a gtf yeah oh I just think you I just thought you just love brutal games and you know what's one more right well Tom can speak to this because I know in your collection Tom you have what a Godzilla you have a stranger thing still yep right yes sir you have you have an attack from Mars do you still have a Medieval Madness nice I got rid of that okay so at least three of those and you had a Medieval Madness for all so you you have a long long time right so you have all the major games that have things up the middle that can be fun so I mean what are your thoughts on that because you're I mean you have more experience than anybody else on this podcast obviously with something up the middle like that compared to gtf I mean what's your overall thoughts on something like that all all those games don't have it fixed right in the middle of the freaking Playfield I mean gtf has the the tank is right there in the middle and you know the games you mentioned like stranger things Medieval Madness attack from ours are all in the back so you know it it just kind of I don't know to me it's like having a roadblock in the middle of the Playfield and yeah I I look at a game like Iron Man and the Monger you know pops up and down so yeah there's there's that's that's in the middle but it's it's not a constant thing yeah same with uh Led Zeppelin the the premium you know you have that spinner thing um but you could shoot through it you can shoot through it that's true and you can make the Ram uh but uh yeah I mean I I guess I I don't want to say it's a poor design but it's not the best I mean I I don't want to knock the game but it to me like Joel was saying they should have did something a little different with it and I just I just think it's you know you're trying to avoid something that's the main Center piece of the game that seems odd to me extremely strange I would I wish they could have did something kind of like mousing around if they're going to have that there and maybe have some kind of quick turnaround 180 ramp yeah real quick I think Joel had a great idea like having a drop Target and then popping the ball through I think that's what we all assumed it would be when we all start hearing that there's going to be something in the middle of the play field that's like a tank like I had in my head like maybe it has something that drops down and it feeds into the tank and then you know it's like a ball logger or something I'm trying to think of a game that actually has something that's like stagnant right in the middle that you gotta go around Black Knight has I mean it has a shield so the ball's gonna come back but you hit it enough then it can go past it yeah but yeah that's like that's like part of the the lore of like a little shot it's not taking up like it does take a higher mode it's because it's so close if if it was the exact same Mech and it was instead of halfway in the Playfield it was back in the you know back another a little bit further would be better if it was slightly offline yeah yeah it's like if it's smack dab in the middle it's just in your face all the time and TNA has three stand-up targets dead center of the game pretty close to the flipper but they're angled they're angled yep so it helps a little that still can be brutal and you have to be smart when you're aiming for it but that's not when I step up to TNA nobody's going like I can't wait to hit those three those three targets right there but you you're telling me with gtf you have a you have a robot hidden inside the thing any any novice is going to want to see him pop up um I don't know it's uh I think what's disappointing is is there's a lot of potential there there is and the last thing you want is to just have a lot of potential like you you never truly cash it in and I don't know how this game can ever truly cash in its potential because the art package fantastic like just kiss right the sounds like it's weird like don't get me wrong it's weird that the dubstep or whatever it is is part of just what this is all things considered but the sound still though like I like the idea of that soundtrack I like the idea of something that's just off the wall right and I I genuinely love like we joked about last podcast but the fact that it's so off the wall with tanks in space yeah you know it's like it's a b it reminds me like a b horror movie you know where you're just gonna like watch something it's just gonna be a grand old time and you're just gonna be along for the ride so it's absurd yeah yeah and and it's just like I wonder what this game would have been if the if those middle targets weren't there if everything else was the same and that just wasn't there and it's just some like some type of return to where maybe if it's like a whodunit double return I guess I think it would have been great if it if it disappeared under the Playfield somehow and then popped up yeah and then you would hit the tank and then it went away and then you had other things to do I mean [ __ ] that would have been a great great idea I I yeah if if that Mech acted more like the Monger as an Iron Man I think we're all having an entirely different conversation about this game I agree I'm trying to think like I'm trying to in my head look at different games like Godzilla like let's say like Mecca Godzilla was right in the middle how would you feel about that or like the building was right in the middle or you know I have X-Men way down there what if what if uh Magneto Wolverine it was right in the middle you know it's just it's just all these things it's like it it just really well I say like it's a flow killer I guess yeah well yeah it stands out so much that it kind of overtakes everything else like it overshadows a lot of stuff so the [ __ ] up into the lock that's a pretty cool like Mech to see it happen when that magnet does work way back there yeah yeah but I mean it's still it's still cool like to me it's it's funny as hell but it's goofy we're all in on the joke when you see like the AP people come up and they they're the pilots or whatever whatever it is like that's fine you know it's just it makes me wonder if if just those Targets in the middle to a tank game is just if it's the killer of the entire game if it makes it to where if that wasn't there maybe this game would be a lot more enjoyable I think it would be but even personally even when Joel and I were playing at tpf like I the first game we played I was like intentionally just going for the tank there was no points yeah like it's your main toy I don't get it yeah you know and maybe it might come along in code but yeah but they're going to have to do something to make it worth your while to go after that you know because you hear people hitting it but I think of uh you know Pulp Fiction or taxi very similar you got those three drops dead center but they're angled slightly but it's not I think Iron Monger is the best example I think you're right when because that's a toy that you obviously want to bash and it just you're gonna hit it and it's coming back at you but it's not always in a way like middle is fine it can be done it just needs to be done for the right reasons and it needs to be done in such a way that's enjoyable that it's not a hindrance to your overall experience on the game and I think more times than not I think most of us know that those Targets on gtf feels like a hindrance yeah at this point so Bond 60th has a has a spinning hat dead center of the game but it's only one post and it's and it goes back to a position it's always it where it settles is in a safer spot like at least you know where it is and you know if you brick because you hit that post and it comes flying back at you that's on you like that's a I don't but I don't no bit of me feels like when I play Bond 60th that I'm avoiding the Hat you know but it's but it's a post now yeah five times yeah that was purposely designed to be like that too as well right it's pretty fun yep so there you go I mean that's the thing you can still take these mechs and create them in such a way that it's it's fun it's satisfying it's not oh what was that what game was that I think it was Godzilla again it was Godzilla Travis looked like yeah you got a game hidden in your in your little room there I don't know is it boy no I don't know right but I I don't know I hopefully I want to keep giving this game chances like I'm gonna keep giving it chances as the code gets updated more and more and sure may I want to play a version of this game in which it's fixed in which the targets are fixed I think we're I think we're all rooting for it like yeah we all I know we want it to be a good game to be good yeah we're we're all we we're hype in gtf we didn't know anything about it we're just the concept of it was something to be pumped about you know and why not have a crazy awesome unlicensed game that just I'm all for ridiculous that sounds great and it just but it's unfortunate I just think where we're at right now just trying to be realistic what can they do to to to make this better I I don't know I don't have that answer but I I do trust that American pinball is going to do everything they can to make it as good as possible it's got to be in the rules and the code at this point I mean you're not going to change the play field or some sort of ball save like do some sort of like like Attack Phase where they give you a five second ball save where it's just like this is the time to hit the tank you know something like that like you earn or it's a timing thing where it's like okay shoot now because this is if you lose the ball boom you get that five second ball save it's it's give me some right smack in the middle of a Playfield I want to hit the damn tank yeah I want to see the robot I want to beat the robot like you see something in the middle of the Playfield you're like I want to hit that yeah well we're all like freaking monkeys soon though even in uh Obelisk or whatever that thing's called I was trying to think of uh is there a pinball game where you walk up to it and go I want to avoid that like you're almost excited to avoid something gtf I ever felt that way whenever I played it it was so weird like coining up and being like looking at the targets yeah we're not aiming for that well what's funny though is the game that I just thought of though is the P3 module drained because it has a gobble hole dead center of the Playfield but I you know part of me I see that I go I don't want to hit that but I kind of want to hit that you know you're like you're looking forward because at least that's a satisfying so to kill the the vampires in that game you have to hit the gobble hole so it's like it's it's hurts but yet it's good it's it's I don't it's that's the only Mech that I can think of that I'm excited to avoid because I don't like don't hit it don't hit it but but what happens like I don't know it's this is just don't hit it just don't take the tank is it possible fellas that we might be overreacting to it I mean is that possible can we entertain that no no I don't want to hit something or or is it or is it that we are judging this game against all other games that have come out at basically the same time because you got Foo Fighters which is it's turned out it's really good yeah you got Godfather which is a great recovery it does make it it does make it tough I mean tougher yeah yeah and that's that's what I noticed when I saw it next to Godfather and Foo Fighters I was just like okay uh yeah and people are going to walk up and they're going to see that they're going to make the comparisons and that's just the way it's going to be and you know Pulp Fiction too now Pulp Fiction has those drop Targets in the middle Yep they're drop targets and there's a scoop behind it that you can put the ball on it you technically only have to hit that dangerous shot once to drop it down to the bigger scoop plus the game cusses a lot so that's yeah so that's cool that makes sense it does yeah like you start and it's like I started out I was like whoa I gotta I gotta make sure I either turn that off when the kids are down here or just pay attention so what about this then so this is like the big difference you know we're talking about gtf hell you don't want to necessarily aim for the middle because it's like so damn dangerous right but I want that too but then on the other end of that Spectrum you got Scooby-Doo in which nothing's dangerous you know and so it's kind of like one of those things that it's interesting to me to see these different designs that come out and these different philosophies from different companies that all these games at some point have gone through the Whitewood stage and I'm genuinely curious to know like the decision making that goes into this and the type of players that they're having test these games as well because I have a hard time believing that gtf would be under the white wood phase and nobody would catch that I I know for a fact it has to be people realized what was going to happen so I'm curious how that still went through and got produced like how nothing about that got adjusted I don't know that's that's like the biggest question mark for me because there's other parts of that game that are fun like the left ramp I I think it's a fun left ramp to hit overall it's fun seeing the magnet on the left orbit like catch go up the bus I liked locking the balls yeah yeah but I mean there's still fun shots in it there are definitely like home brews that I've played and you realize you start shooting it and then there you immediately experience some geometry things like that shot's not the best or I don't remember like I see why this is a home bro but it's a Homebrew and you realize it's like one guy that he's designed what he thinks is good and he knows how to shoot it but you're like if you had a team I don't think you know you'd probably like that's why you have a place like Stern that has so many great designers you know they're all sharing input with each other and I just feel like American football Dennis Nordman has said he had this design for years been around for a while so we're all probably I mean I'll just say it we're all probably experiencing the reason why this game this certain design had not come out before yeah like we're all probably in real time experiences and at the end of the day it is what it is it's not like it's going to be ap's last game or anything like that they have other games coming out in the future so you know I mean live and learn I guess design is not easy pinball design at all and what I think is interesting because just the concept of how do you I mean if you want to use me as the joke that's fine but how do you design a game that keeps me entertained but also the two of you entertained and that's I think you look at Godzilla and you look at Foo Fighters both of those have very unique layouts that are just fun to shoot but they're also like like very approachable like and but I think where they go the extra mile specifically Godzilla is like I remember when my dad was playing Godzilla he's like I don't know what I'm hitting but every time I'm hitting a shot it's reacting and it's making me feel like I'm doing something great and he is actually progressing a bunch of different stuff all at once and so I go to stream Godzilla with my brother and it's like hey you're like one shot away from tank or you're you're one shot away from bridge like hey just do these things and and so I think the code they made a very approachable accessible layout but yet the other side of that is like Cactus Canyon you guys both feel Cactus Canyon is too easy so is that layout just too simple to keep your enjoyment like even if the code was deeper do you still feel that layout is just too like blah for you well what it is I'm sure Tom can answer this too I mean when you get to a certain point in pinball and you've played enough pinball your accuracy goes up and when you're accurate and layouts you can pretty much just destroy like any top tier player will destroy a fan layout I mean you take for instance our attack from Mars final game at a Cleveland I think like three of us had close to 10 billion points on the game and this is a Stern pro circuit setup so I mean that's just the reality of it that when you have a fan layout you just hit the shots and the balls never out of control that's the difference on it so it can still be fun like something like that's still fun to jam on thousand percent yeah I I just think uh like you were saying the you know the ram sir just a little too accessible and things like that for me and uh you know you got you got really wide shots that are easy to hit with the exception of maybe the you know the the scoob uh but everything yeah yeah but but everything else is really accessible on the game and you know I it's it's just to me it's just for me it's not a good home game but I that's just me but and I don't blame you because that I just think it's funny that Cactus Canyon is a game that every single person that I heard in pinball media was like that's a it's a simple game it's a simple game it's kind of shallow like it's you'd get like it's almost people are warning you like you'll get bored you'll get bored of the game yeah and I will tell you though I didn't get bored of the game like I saw the end but to me the difficulty level of that game was I genuinely felt like the wizard mode was attainable for me every single time I played the game and that's good I mean it was just a perfect fit for me and my skill level like I mean there's there's certain games that probably people don't want to own because they're way too hard yeah you know um yeah I had the Ellie and I I miss it I mean I it's an interesting game but it's when I yeah when I start blowing it up I'm like oh yeah this is fun it's at my parents house and um I so I play it every time I go over there and I'm I I mean I've I've played it enough and I got those Precision flippers baby that um that I I can typically get to Half Shell challenge every single time I play which is I mean that's four it's probably no big deal for you guys but like that is that was when I first had the game like I was nowhere near that and just and now consistently completing modes getting the half shell challenge starting to get initially I always thought Cowabunga that that final final wizard mode was just there is no way and even I thought final battle getting through eight modes to get the final battle I thought would be near impossible for me to get to but you keep chipping away at that and I I mean I think I'm one day I may be able to get the final battle that may actually happen um but that's a game that I the only reason I've I've gotten to that point is because I've played the heck out of it because it's a theme I love and if you don't love Turtles and you step up to that on an arcade it's gonna kick your butt and you're probably not gonna wanna drop that dollar to play it again you're gonna want to go to something else and I don't know it's unfortunate because people are missing a great game that time mode uh what is that the half shell challenge yeah yeah it's a great mode a lot like more games need to have stuff like that I'm sorry I agree that's that sped run yeah challenge yeah Speed Run it's something you know it's fun to do it I will tell you though genuinely one of The Insider achievements for Half Shell challenge is can you beat it in under 100 seconds and I that was a game there are two things that I I have to give Dwight credit for this because there are two things that I genuinely was like grinding at every time I'd go over to my parents house and that was one of them and I I had gotten to under 150 so there's 200 150 and then 100 and it was just every time I went over there it's like I gotta do it I gotta do it and I finally did it and like that's doing that was one of the most satisfying things I've ever done in pinball like that was the equivalent of some of these wizard modes that I've achieved and I just like I finally did it getting under that and then the other thing was updating upgrading all my turtles to level four because that's something that with Insider connect you carry into so it's almost like a badge of honor in my mind like I've done it I've put in the work I've I've put in the time that it takes to upgrade all your turtles because level four getting them to level four is not easy and um and so it's nice part is though the game totally changes if you have a level four Turtle yes it's an entirely different experience and I don't know if this is available but I wish that there was something in there in the menu in which you could automatically play with fully leveled up Turtles like just soup them all up and enjoy it from the start button because I I think that that would be a total Game Changer because it does it changes you can do it completely so that's what's that's my only complaint right now is so I have all my turtles leveled up so every single time I log in and play a game my Turtles start at level four which is awesome I love it but there are there are certain things like Ray day has gotten to final battle or or Cowabunga and and one of the ways you can do that is to get to the neutrino pizza party mode to get to nutrient you know pizza party mode what you have to do is you have to get through one level of training so that's not bad when you're starting at level one because level one training is not that hard and then you can get through to neutrino pizza party and if you do really well in neutrino pizza party it'll give you one of the requirements you need to get to Cowabunga so he was getting the April hurry UPS that's the one that's probably the most of a grindy thing to do so it was just like the hardest thing was just given to them but now if I do it getting through level four is a challenge and that's just for me to qualify that so it would be really cool if there was a way as somebody that has qualified them to be able to decide I want to play at level one the way you do it right now is it's a permanent thing you tell it I want to clear my levels and you go back to level one you could you could uh just put the game to competition mode and then it'll it'll start a level that would work and or the other thing is I just play without being logged in the problem is I want I want those achievements yeah so if you put it in competition you can still use your Insider connect and then can you get achievements in competition mode oh yeah okay well maybe that's the way to do it because it's like if there's ever a chance that I actually get to final battle or Cowabunga I better get that achievement so it would be cool at this point I would love it if there was a way to select I want to play level one without permanently losing my levels um but it's I don't know it's just cool things like that that I props to Dwight for coding that into his game that carrying over levels I think is really cool it really does change how the game plays um and then on top of that that half shell challenge mode is is awesome so more of that stuff more of that stuff Raymond I know you're listening Raymond make it happen well that and that goes back into it too that hopefully the the listening audience out there realizes how difficult it is to code games as well like and so it's incredible that these options are in the games with co-op with you know getting the wizard modes up early or even getting different types of game modes in I mean that's that's all pretty sweet and it's all things yeah and all things considered when people talk about the pricing and everything it's like you know go play a solid state game and see if you can get the same the same out of that thing I mean you might if you just enjoy ripping Spinners all day long but yeah these games they're they have a lot in them and that does make replaying them over and over and over again a lot more fun 100 you that you don't want to you don't want this expensive box of lights that we all have be stagnant you know of just like well I know if I play it I'm just gonna see everything I see in the game like you don't want the code to be so shallow that it's just boring or that goes into how the design is too you know I mean at the same time so it it just depends because think about it you said the same thing with Cactus Canyon yeah you feel like you can get to the wizard mode every game yeah you keep coming back for more I do something in that hits you yeah and so that's I mean that's the mark of a good game if it does that for you I mean that's good and there's no shots in there that you're avoiding it's because my lock is lit and so am I that's why that's why I keep oh yeah I love that game um I really uh Cactus Canyon I'm genuinely looking forward to buying like I I want to have that and because there's also the hope of like I love it where it's at today but there is new code coming and to me that sounds great like I'm looking forward whatever they're adding sign me up because I already know where they get we gotta put you on the spot yeah oh are you ready Joel yep I'm ready assuming you're in a reality in which on 60th and Cactus Canyon are the same price what game are you buying this is not a nice question the answer is characters I would buy Bond 60. straight up I even played 160. yeah I know you would but that game What bond 60th is super appeals to you because I understand it's a call back to everything great about older games retro games it's a fast game it's a hard game so why would you get Cactus Canyon oh like what does Cactus Canyon have back on 60 doesn't I really is it the cowboy you prefer Cowboys or British Spies Like The bashing bar and seeing his hat go up is cool but but to be honest I love the I love the quick draw the targets popping up and it's quick it's just a like immediate I gotta hit that thing and it's satisfying every time I hit it I like the humor in the game I genuinely like the humor in the game like that's one of the reasons I like Deadpool that's why I like Godzilla because how campy it is um and it's just I like it's just fun like it's just fun and and I also it's a game that my friends and family also find fun and that's something that I know what Bond 60th has is the brutality and the point chasing in that depth which I can appreciate because I like code but you put a novice in front of bond 60th they don't they don't know that you know yeah so I gotta go the other way with it because I know I know Tom loves his bond 60 and he would push Cactus Canyon out in traffic so Tom if they were priced exactly the same which one would you get and why band 60th because I would put push Cactus Canyon into traffic well what a silly question he paid twenty thousand dollars for a game I did not pay for it no I know I know I know but you we you gave it to him yeah she already made that choice what about Bond 60 basically checks all the boxes for you over something like Cactus Canyon playability no I uh yeah it's not hard enough yeah Cactus Canyon isn't heard enough okay then let's let's pick another game then because because I'm curious because this is what fascinates me in conversations with people and figuring out what they like what they're into so like I like I like all the drops and the loops and Spinners and all that like it's just kinetic flow I guess is it fair to say like what about Bond 60th verse Godzilla yeah okay yeah that's actually a great question what do you like about Bond 60 better than Godzilla I mean you may still like Godzilla better but what do you like about Bond 60 do you like Godzilla better I think games a lot faster when I play it like if you could buy both you could buy your Godzilla Le or your bond 60th like if I had to choose between the two what would I put let's say let's say Bond 60 you could get that for like three thousand dollars less than Godzilla Ellie okay which one would you get knowing everything you know now you have plenty of time on both games yeah I mean I'd I'd probably pick Godzilla just because of the the depth of it and uh everything but yeah what about Bond 60th what if Bond 60th in a Pulp Fiction Le were the same price which would you pick because I think Pulp Fiction has a good question I like that I think it has more toys yeah I think it has more depth I'd probably go Pulp Fiction just because I like the theme a little bit cursing so is Pulp Fiction actually a single level game I think so I would I would still say this well because of the subway are you saying oh there you go yeah this doesn't have a ramp but it's it's got the wire form then yeah they snuck something past Quentin Tarantino didn't they he didn't lift the Playfield no he gets his game I think it's interesting though like I I I am the longer I've been in this hobby I've started to really value the variety in pinball and wanting to have different things like I don't I don't want to have just four modern Sterns I I want to have variety and that's where like that's one of the reasons I love TNA because I think TNA feels different but now I feel like there are options like that like on 60th Pulp Fiction you get these fast more simplistic games but still have a lot to them yeah and I think it's good to have some variety too you know yeah um you know because some days I just I want quick games so I'm gonna go play you know Flash Gordon and uh Frontier and other days I'm like you know what I want to grind out Godzilla and see if I can get to Planet X you know so it's just you know Different Strokes for different folks that's why Pinball's so great it is I mean it is cool too when you really look at this guys there's multiple games now that are modern games that are just single level for the most part so Joel kind of touched on this and Tom maybe you got there quicker since you you know your your pinball stuff or all your pins expand it rapidly once you start buying things but you get to you get to a point and we've all hit this before when you buy a couple pins modern pins all of a sudden you start seeing other pins from different eras and everything but there's something about like I love the old school stuff the solid States and all that but there's something about a modern game that's like that yeah it's modern so like beetles and 007 60th and TNA just games like that so I'm very curious to see where pinball goes in the next five years if there's going to be more manufacturers trying to kind of touch on this because there will be people want to see that it's obvious that that's happening because otherwise Pulp Fiction wouldn't do what it's doing you know when you when you mix in the right theme with something like that I think you you have something special with that this is a good segue oh for punny Factory oh no [Music] well just one one last thought was it's that's that's one more reason why I really like uh the the cgc remakes because it it reminds me of an older Bally Williams game but it actually feels modern because of the light show because of the expense expanded DMD like that's that's to me I don't feel like I'm just putting an old game in my lineup I actually feel like I'm putting a modern game but it has that Simplicity and the approachability of some of those some of those older ones so I don't know I'm all in but um punting Factory punny Factory yeah what did you think of the trailer did you like it no I mean no no there's we talked about this the other night on uh flipping out with friends and it's just it's just one of those things where if the price was it was three grand or something then okay oh it's not three but anyway it's the same price it's the same price it's the same price though as a Stern Pro and it's just hard for me to sit there and it's like what are they bragging about they're bragging about you know a full-size backlash they're bragging about Canadian wood they're they're talking they're bragging about in inside interior art blades that go all the way down I was watching the trailer and literally getting a migraine because like they like kept going back and forth and and like zooming in and out of stuff and I was like I can't even see anything but I'm just saying as somebody if you were new to the Hobby or what but you're sitting there and it's like okay I got seven Grand to spend on a pin like I just why would you pick and I don't mean this in a mean way but like I just don't know why you would pick punny Factory yeah over you know any storms providers you can get a used Cactus Canyon for under seven thousand dollars like there are food there's so many other games that that like well so what is it and I don't know like I know plenty of people that are that love dad jokes myself include but I've never like punny Factory is not a theme that you can in my mind that you would be like I'm ready to spend seven thousand dollars on that and it's like is there something unique like this probably I probably shouldn't bring it like deep root deep root at least Deep Roots Playfield the their cabinet looked unique the pin bar looked unique they were bringing something unique and original that people were like well that seems pretty slick the funny fact here I'm looking at that it's like what are you bringing to the table that stands out it doesn't look like a tank like collecting tank force it just what about that game justifies trying it out for seven thousand dollars and it's not I'm not seeing revolutionary Playfield design uh uh I don't know I I'm I want more pinball and I want them to be successful my view my takeaway from penny factory is I hope people there's an update I hope people buy it that just have the money to do it just because I don't I hope this is their worst game I hope this is enough for them to establish himself as a manufacturer so that they can continue to improve on what they're doing and make good pinball is that gonna get you a punny Factory no I don't no I don't know no I I just but to me this is just it's you know it's not like it's a new company that's coming out with just like whoa I'm ready to dive in on look at the designer they got look at the artwork look at the like this theme or the license like sure I'll take a chance on that because I love that band or I love this license like Big Lebowski you know it's like people went all in on that because of what it was this though it's like I don't it reminds me of Mafia team Mafia or the that was a game I think it's the same people that are building it um there's a lot of stand-up targets there's so many and they bragged about it 16 like haggis so haggis made Celts there's very few people that were loving Celts but what did haggis bring they brought that brand new Playfield design they brought a screen inside the Playfield like they brought unique things that people were willing to try and then luckily they had enough they had enough success with Celts that they were able to go and now do what they're doing and that's what I'm hoping punny Factory is there they have enough success with this game that they can go further yeah well the hurdle right now is that if you are coming out with a pinball machine that does not have a license theme you better be prepared to create the atmosphere yeah around it so for instance like gtf that's what makes people interested they create the atmosphere around it no matter how outlandish it is they went all in on it on creating that atmosphere and so that's what made TNA so great as well it's a punishing game but you know what the atmosphere of it the sounds and everything and how you know bass drops and beats the beeps yeah exactly so you know when I saw this trailer I didn't get the sense of anything to do with atmosphere at all I was just I was confused I didn't know what was happening I didn't know whether you know they needed to recharge their potato that they were filming on I was very confused it's just I I don't know why they did that and and the reason why it's so confusing because I don't doubt that hard work went in to designing into producing this pen so it was just really confusing that the trailer would come out like that because it's I I can tell you and I'm sure there's a bunch of other people saying the same thing as somebody that is involved in selling pinball machines for a living it's very difficult to get somebody to part ways with their money with thousands of dollars when that's what you have to show them for it whereas like we could turn around and show off you know Pulp Fiction look look at this trailer like you put those together like you know what I mean so that's the biggest thing if you're gonna if you're gonna Market something you have to make it to where it keeps people's attention and it gets them hooked and if you don't do that then it's like your your product's going to get written off so fast so this is and I'm really not trying to be mean but I just think it keeps saying that Joel go hard in the pain so here I'm not I'm not in marketing right I'm not in marketing but I watch this video and it like how do they're the drop targets the drop Targets in this video they zoom in on them like one of the stickers was peeling up like and the other one was like skit like bent over and I'm like you're don't zoom in on a drop Target and show that your decals suck like put new decals on it before you film this or the same thing with the backbox they show their their the board that they're using and a bunch of wires on the right are there's electrical tape on them like they just spliced them in so clearly they're still figuring that like like and to be honest even Stern isn't perfect at this Stern has shown games where there's like spot welds on ramps and it's probably a production game if you look closely at the Mandalorian yeah there's an actual bug on the Playfield here in their trailer okay I'm kidding you're not or it shows you know like like dimples you know on the you're zooming in on these and it's like instead of having this pristine perfect Playfield that you're trying to sell you're you have a it's like you got to be these are things that people are seeing or I've seen it even in Stern where it's like or other I don't know as other ones but it's like they'll do a slow-mo video of watching a ball and you see a plastic like bouncing in the background and it makes you wonder is that screwed in all the way or whatnot so you know nobody's exempt to it but these are things that I know we're all seeing so if you're a manufacturer and you're trying to show them this is what we're doing where we have high quality Cabinets we have this we have that like you can't you can't have that you can't have a job Target professionally yeah you can what you need to have a drop Target with us with a decal that's coming off like the gtf trailer it looked like the the rubber that is between the flippers that comes up it looked like it was a piece of paper that was a label on top of that that wasn't cut out well like little stuff like that you're you can't I don't know that you're trying to sell a product and if that's the product you're gonna ship out okay maybe that is a realistic expectation but if your game has wear on it when you're filming the trailer for it why would we not assume the brand new games are going to get the same amount of wear when we start playing them um I don't know just a thought I'm not marketing I feel bad somebody made that video and was proud of it and sent it to their parents and their parents told them they were proud of them no you're trying to take that away from you but you you are a potential customer like here's the reality of it even if none of us buy the pinball machine yeah we're all in pinball we are all automatically potential customers yeah and so therefore any video that comes out from a pinball manufacturer deserves to be judged because we are all the potential customers so everybody is well within their rights to have any critique over something because you either like the marketing or you don't if you don't like the marketing guess what you're probably not going to buy the product which means whoever made Whatever video there is or whatever they did not do their job they have to explain what the game is they have to touch an emotion for why you need to be interested in this why does this product Stand Out above everything else in the industry that's what has to be done and it doesn't mean you have to do it to the tune of thousands of games sometimes you just have to do it to the tune of 50 to 100 but if you have a hard time even doing that I mean that's the thing you've got to get these things professionally done we're going to get the lighting we're in a good time for pinball but we're also in a weird time for a pinball because there's just too many games out right now it's at the same time yeah it's awesome that there are tools out there that make building your own game easier I'm not saying it's easy that's far from that but there are so many home Brewers out there which is so great I love it I love that there are people that are building their own games but then you have all these company I think what was it a tilt Bob tilt Bob down in Florida they're talking about that's the guy that made elf they're saying they're going to start making their own games like I love it I love it that there's companies that are willing to do this but you've got to realize it doesn't matter how small you are we are going to compare you to stern and jjp like jjp's trailers are so good and then they get um straight down the middle to come in and do these featurettes and it's they get they get professional marketing teams to build these ridiculous trailers with fist pumping dads and little girls that are pumped playing Toy Story I mean they're gonna have it but but that's what we have I'm sorry but we're gonna compare you to that and the only way we want it compared to that is if your product is one eighth of the cost of the big boys but if you're coming in at the same cost as a Stern Pro I I can't give you a password Target label being ripped no you're you're right and it just it well and this goes into because I'm sure there there might be a few people out there that are thinking about manufacturing pinball or they're they're involved but yeah it's just it's so damn important to make sure that you get your initial launch correct yeah and that you get the attention that you want to get that's correct and it's positive so if you put a trailer out right and one of the first things you do is turn off the comments not a good sign and I can almost guarantee I've even look I can almost guarantee as a matter of fact I'll put it I'll I'll put any amount of money I can almost guarantee that the honey Factory comments are turned off because you just you don't put a video out like that without it you know you would get crushed I was ready crushed there's no doubt about it so yeah so if you're going to come with prices like we talked about that's very similar to competitors they're excellent at what they do you you are going to be judged by that measuring stick you're not going to get a pass it's the same spooky has gone through the same thing to where they've been judged at the very same and rightfully so because they've earned the right to be judged too that's what a lot of people forget it's not just because of their pricing but they've earned the right to be judged because Spooky's put in the time and they put out a you know a few good pinball machines I mean with Rick and Morty with TNA and Alice Cooper had its yeah had its positives to it so I mean that's the thing you just you gotta find a way that if nobody knows about you and you haven't built that loyal fan base right you can't get away with lackadaisical you know you can't get away without any marketing that is just very precise and very geared towards who you want to purchase your product I totally agree with you I think the one exception is if you have some crazy license because there are people Tom Tom admitted if Rush came out with one pop bumper he would have bought it just there are people that will pull they will they will they will go all in on they don't care who makes it but here's a hot bumper here's the difference though license they cost money yeah and if you're willing to pay that money for a license you've got to be willing to Shell out to let people know hey here's why you need to buy this yeah because here's the problem you will get the people up front to purchase based off theme alone but after that like do you have your longevity you also you bring in the manufacturer I mean you look at Halloween like they sold out day one because of the license and what it was blah blah blah and then and once the game started coming out and people started running into issues people are flipping spots so selling them for a loss so there's no guarantee even if you sell all your games at the same time though that means that they did sell all their games you know what I mean so yeah that's a little bit that's a little bit different situation but when we're talking about somebody that doesn't have the ability to sell several hundred games right they don't have the ability to manufacture several hundred games it's like okay you've got to find a way to get the line going so I think that you rightfully if you don't have a license theme and your product your your design isn't going to be a or S tier level it's just not going to be it's very difficult to do you've got to find a way to get people's attention and to get the right attention and I don't watch in this trailer there's no way that they got the right attention what I think is interesting is the most unique thing that I saw on this game punny Factory is the speakers if you look at the backbox it looks like because it's a full back glass the speakers actually come out of the edge of the backbox so it looks like they've routed that through and the speakers are actually mounted to the side so the the like that actually looks unique they don't mention it once so to me it's like if they're not mentioning it is it not an audio Improvement you know like I know once again was like you know it's like seven point surround system like they had remember they had speakers in the coin area and they're like oh you have crotch level speakers but at least they're like okay this is unique maybe this would actually be a unique but I don't know I I I have to look now at this YouTube video are the are the are the comments turned off but um okay so I'm looking at it right now 1K views it's pretty sweet somehow something's got to be off because it only has eight likes after 1K I don't know how that's but I don't know what happened but it's turned off yeah the comments are turned off there you go so like elements people have said that like well element sounds a lot more interesting than punny Factory and it comes back to my original comment I'm not trying to just tear down the company and even the comments we've made about gtf to be honest like we're rooting for you guys we genuinely want like I want gtf to be as great as it possibly can be and it's doing a lot of things right it just has some things that hopefully they can get better punny Factory sure there's a lot that I would like to see better but I I genuinely hope this is the worst game they make but it's enough that they they get the foot in the door and they every game after this only improves and gets better um because there's stuff like okay the the whole like metal rack system that they have the game and seeing that the Playfield had printing on the back side of it to show where to mount things and stuff like they genuinely they they clearly care they want this to be good there this hopefully this is the start of a great company it's just I just don't know how you come out swinging ready to compete with the big boys and not I don't know like you've got to realize you are going to be compared to the big boys you have to be at that level in quality yeah well it's also too you got to figure out a way to get your product priced as such that you at least get entry level into the market so if you're already priced yourselves out of the market like you're screwed you're royally screwed unless you have a ton of money backing you it's just to launch a product and that's before I got into pinball that's kind of my background launching and investing in different products it is very difficult to get something off the ground unless you get that right off the bat it's very hard to pick up that that same space afterwards several months down the line because people make their opinions so quick yeah and once they once they make up their mind guess what the next shiny thing that goes in front of them that's what gets their attention yeah I get it I get it well we are we're over two hours so we should probably wrap it up I don't know is there anything else uh anything else anything we missed I think Tom Tom is always happy even if it were off Tom like trooper through that dude he he played some pinball here exactly the game he recorded a two-hour he recorded a two-hour podcast somehow managed to update at least three games that we heard right and played multiple game spindle it was and it was only one game that updated that's a sad thing it's the same thing all right uh let's plug it up uh Travis plug away plug a hole Yeah you guys can find me right here on the triple drain pinball podcast or if you're into stalking I'm on Facebook you guys can find me there I'll friend you let's go uh one last thing I'm gonna let you plug Tom don't worry we so this is something I'm excited about I'm excited about I was trying to get creative with merch I was trying to get creative with merch initially I threw out this idea of like a small towel and I got I got pooed all over because Travis thought it was the dumbest thing ever but I thought a small towel you know competitive players would be carried around draw their hands off so I thought it would be cool that would be a cool thing to see competitive players like carry around a triple drain towel like a carabiner or something hook it on their belt loop I thought it was a great idea Travis no neither was don't so I was like what's a piece of merch that we could do that I think is awesome and believe it or not I've started the process of getting quotes on lunch boxes because I was so hyped about The gtf Lunchbox and it's not here so why not get a triple drain lunchbox so I'm looking into it they would be black it would have our Hydra logo it would be real slick um the question didn't have a thermos in it no thermoser I mean it could but they're expensive though so to all of our uh married men out there tell your wives get you a triple drain and watch podcast lunchbox so what okay what are you gonna I we have T-shirts check out silverball swag uh Fox Cities now has silver ball swag check it out silverballswag.com it's awesome we have T-shirts we got hoodies we got hats we got all that but my thing is like is there something else that would be cool in pinball look at all your knickknacks back there Travis imagine uh instead of your little uh oh never mind we can't see it because this camera's out um imagine a lunch box on the shelf or uh you know yeah I think it's Joel you got your little uh whatever for like the past 20 minutes just talk about how it's difficult how to Market certain things I just I think what so I'm throwing this out there the other things we could do we could do posters there's cool metal posters you could do coffee mugs you can do all these things what I'm asking the Hydra poster yes you could do a poster see that would maybe I'd want that yeah I would want that I mean something I want in my wall I will take credit for this there are things there's a website that it all goes through it's posters is an option metal why not paper yeah why aren't we starting an only fans page yeah why not why not baby onesies Joel if we're doing that we could do baby onesies these are things but lunch box lunchbox was the only thing I think there's underwear we could do this these are things that we could do but and these are things we could do easily because it's all print on demand but The Lunchbox is something we'd actually have to put in an order what I'm sensing from you guys is you think it's a dumb idea what I'm asking no we should do we should do a lunch box we will sell ones of them we should definitely do a lunch box realistically here's what's next maybe two the middle one I would order he will hate buy it no I guarantee when it doesn't sell for like the first month all of a sudden we'll sell like 12. the minimum I would have they're all going to Indiana is 24. so that's the thing 24. believe it or not I assumed you knickknacks would want one so that's three of 24 that I think we could account for let them talk Travis then you got the floor I'm trying to save him Tom I think it's cool let him go okay go ahead okay sell Tom and I on this since we didn't have a pre-production meeting I don't have to sell you if we got him I would give you one but what I'm asking no I'm not I'm not saying you actually sell us one I'm saying sell us on the idea that this is a good idea I don't know all I know is I know how excited I was to get a gtf lunch box so if I can't get it why would I not want a triple drain lunchbox that's my thought I just thought it would be cool I thought people I just think it's cool so my question to the audience if you think it's cool please write me an email at triple drain gmail.com or send us a Facebook message if I genuinely get 24 I'm buying them and I'm gonna love it and you know what Travis maybe you won't get one but I'm excited about G I'm excited about triple drain lunch boxes somebody to email you telling you this is the greatest idea Joel and you're just gonna go buy 24. well what's that is a few hundred dollars it's a few hundred dollars exactly that's what I'm telling you don't like to be honest to sell them we're looking at probably like 40 bucks but somebody's excited about it really imagine how many pockets you could put in our triple trailers basically email or Facebook email or Facebook otherwise you know if I hear nothing um what's funny is the distributor is like asking me about it he's like hey you you I said to that quote do you wanna I bet he is like I have somebody I got somebody lunch boxes maybe Zach would sell them at flip a note okay I just whatever it is it's just if the idea of if somebody heard lunchbox and they're like that's cool I'd buy that great let me know um otherwise you can put your sandwich in there you don't have to put anything you can just put on the Shelf you could just put it on a shelf okay so you you want to Market this as a collection of corn is what you're saying I understand most people don't need a lunch box but it's a cool thing you could put on the Shelf so what what would be on the front of it would it be our logo it would be a black lunchbox with the Hydra logo but it's a triple drain oh yes that's part of the logo it would not have our face unless that's something that people want but fine if if uh in my the thing is I I've run out of wall space like I I love the idea of posters but if people would prefer a poster great we can absolutely do paper posters you got my blessing let's let's do The Lunchbox you sold me I need the blessing of 23 other people Travis that's the problem everybody's gonna be like yeah Joel do it because everybody loves Joel so they'll be like pretty much and please realize or Facebook us and say I like the I if you email her Facebook and say I like the idea of a lunch box I'm I'm kind of counting on you to actually buy it so just and I don't know the final price yet but it would probably be somewhere in like the 40 range uh because we got a ship and whatnot so I'm not I'm not holding you accountable but but we're counting you know and then not buy it please all right that's it uh plug up plug away Tom I don't know how I can top that now I feel like the problem is as soon as I said plug away Travis people just stop listening because they're like I don't need to hear the plugs no no I don't even know where I am right now so just just I don't know here's the this is it's just I I really I I we really are so grateful for the patreon people but the three of us we don't want to just like go buy ourselves dinner with patreon we want to do something for the show so that's why I was trying to get creative on cool merch we want to buy lunch boxes a whole freaking palette of your lunchbox you know what Joel I know you I know you like lunch boxes I'm going to support The Lunchbox did have the tall idea too the Italian just support that you thought that was super dumb well you gave the idea though we segued that into a poster I mean it's just because a towel would be I could give one guy Adam here think about this guys okay do you guys have anything up on your walls like it all any artwork anything yeah yes okay it's all over do you too as grown men walk around with a towel in your pants [Laughter] I clearly don't understand drink about this for a minute I thought I see all these tournament Players and they wipe down the game when they're done and so my mind is like what they use their t-shirt they flip their T-shirts because they don't want to walk around an actual small towel they would use the towels of their t-shirts I applaud you for the thought I'm just letting you know the reality of it it's dumb I get it you did it I didn't say it's done it's not dumb yeah it's just shouldn't spend money if anybody has a cool idea of something merch wise I was just trying to what's a cool pinball thing that people don't have or a lot of people in pinball would use that's that was the thought you could probably pinball with the Hydra logo on it and put that in your game I don't know yeah I don't know throw that in your game let's prom but all right this is I feel like this is a conversation the three of us should probably have not on podcast but oh no this is this is good stuff because we talked to our viewers yeah they're seeing how the Bacon's made right now yeah so bacon made let's get a uh you said that weird but let's let's do uh an apron you know why not while you're making that bacon use your fascination we're getting stuff that has to do with food or juice you said bacon made I was just going off of that okay so we got hats we obviously got sweatshirts we got we have all that [Music] shoes we could do shoes no but the problem is they don't make them past size 12. yeah Tom and I are over here wearing 14 ones yeah yeah we can't we can't do yeah no no no no we gotta we gotta think we gotta think outside the box fellas think of course please that's why no it's not gonna happen right here I'm just saying think Force please if uh any of the listeners can email us and tell us a cool merch ID that would be really appreciated that'd be great yeah we're gonna get like 30 messages that are all about The Lunchbox I would love it just do it for Joel don't even yeah they're gonna do it they're gonna beat Tom everybody's gonna be listening like that Travis Mary what an [ __ ] to Joel we're gonna tell him to get the lunch boxes 100 emails yeah yeah and then I'm gonna be fine for 40 bucks then I'm Really Gonna pucker up because if it's like a big order if it's a big order and then all of a sudden like okay you're telling me I have to order okay these people are gonna order yeah all right yeah does all 24 do they have to be in the same design yes or is it just 24 pieces no you have to order 20. can they be uh numbered like a limited edition I could pull out a silver Sharpie hey maybe that's something we could but that would involve shipping them to the each other now we'll just meet at a show yeah I show up with 24 at Expo I show up with a with a crate of 24 lunch boxes people with like 24 lunch boxes and we just look so sad right all over my stream dusk what's gonna suck is like Dr John in Australia's gonna order one and we're gonna have to ship it out to there it'll be more than the lunch box Neil McRae is gonna order two and we're gonna find a way to ship it to him you can't wait we're gonna have these at tpf next year and that lady that waited behind nil and Godfather's gonna walk by oh man golf at us Tom are you giving Thumbs Up The Lunchbox yeah I mean we don't want it yeah yeah boy yeah yeah Joel wants it Joel that's hard Joel is all in on it it's lunchbox let's do it Joel would not drive us off a cliff no he certainly drives me soon enough you're using this one from now on I'll tell you what if The Lunchbox things ha happens I will I will I will buy one and uh gift it to somebody ah we'll give one away yeah we're gonna end up giving them all right so plugs plugs yes uh Tom can you plug uh in in that voice changer though can you use that please sure [Music] Fox 80's pinball that's cool quality content uh why do people listen to the show why do people do this okay yep I'm Joe I do the flipping out stream no idea man we uh I do the flipping out stream every Wednesday night from 10 to midnight feel free to join us live for that or uh check out the streams afterwards on YouTube um yeah if you happen to be watching this on YouTube subscribe like leave a comment all those things you can comment here too I want to buy a lunchbox um God this this why this show sucks oh it's so good all right uh Tom gets the last words and remember Travis I have to play the little sound bite so don't talk bye
“shit's leaving Foo Fighters to stay there's some truth to that”
Tom@ 30:29 — Strong endorsement of Foo Fighters as keeper game relative to Deadpool despite previous affinity
“when I stream the game it is a very uh linear playing game so it's like you're playing the same three battles”
Tom@ 31:18 — Identifies gameplay repetition as reason for selling despite enjoying the game's individual mechanics
high · Joel notes 'Distributors that still have them but then there are already people selling them' and characterizes as expensive collector item
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sentiment_shift: Tom is selling Deadpool despite previously stated passion for the game; Foo Fighters has emerged as stronger preference due to superior shot geometry and less linear gameplay
high · Tom explicitly states he's selling Deadpool, says 'shit's leaving Foo Fighters to stay', and explains Deadpool feels 'very linear playing game' with repetitive battles
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content_signal: Joel streamed Bond 60th Anniversary with specific topper camera angle to showcase integration; also creating Foo Fighters content; streaming partnership with Flipping Out implied
medium · Joel references his stream and topper footage, mentions Zach from Flipping Out lent the machine, and discusses streaming decisions around Bond co-op
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design_philosophy: Keith Elwin deliberately designed Bond 60th to be extremely difficult with challenging wizard mode requirement; philosophy to create 'almost unbeatable' game
high · Joel reports Keith said 'I wanted to make an unbeatable game or an almost unbeatable game' and Keith has only reached wizard mode twice
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competitive_signal: Tom actively practicing for IFPA Worlds with High Hand EM machine; Foo Fighters power-up leveling system expected to impact tournament strategy
medium · Tom mentions 'I have it in High Hand the thing is awesome... I'm practicing for worlds'; Travis anticipates 'I'm excited to watch some tournaments in this'
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product_strategy: Stern positioning Bond 60th Anniversary as limited-run premium collector game with high price point and extensive features; operator/casual player accessibility not primary concern
medium · Joel explicitly states 'this is a collector's item' and 'expensive game' while discussing who the target buyer is; high difficulty supports this positioning
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manufacturing_signal: Pinwoofer products noted for excellent instructions, quality wire gauge, and pride in manufacturing details; contrasts with high-end pinball industry standards
high · Joel reports 'instructions are incredibly well done... it comes with everything you'd possibly need even the quality of like wire that's supplied it's not this dinky little thin gauge like it's it's legit'
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collector_signal: Tom limited to 4-pin collection; strategic decisions required to add new games; simpler/more approachable games (Cactus Canyon type) valued over complex modern titles
high · Tom explains 'my collection I can have four pins and having a game like Cactus Canyon in the house I realized how much I enjoyed having that type of game'