Episode 771: "Major Drama With AP's Next Title!"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·20m 38s·analyzed·Feb 21, 2023

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Kaneda criticizes premium pinball pricing amid Bond 60th underwhelm; American Pinball faces Antoinette likeness dispute drama.

Summary

Kaneda discusses mounting frustration with premium-priced pinball games ($10k-$15k) lacking mechanical innovation, criticizing Bond 60th for underwhelming engineering despite the James Bond theme. He covers drama surrounding American Pinball's Galactic Tank Force, where community figure Antoinette alleges contract exploitation and likeness ownership disputes after being dropped from the project. Additional topics include Scooby-Doo's location debut and Spooky Pinball's marketing mishap with improper playfield pitch during their initial stream.

Key Claims

Bond 60th will be 'fine' but 'not anything special,' with inadequate Aston Martin mechanics compared to other Stern games like Toy Story and Aerosmith
high confidence · Kaneda's direct prediction and critique of Bond 60th design philosophy
Stern engineers and George Gomez failed to implement engaging Aston Martin features (spike tires, bulletproof shield, ejecting seat) despite technical capability
high confidence · Kaneda's detailed mechanical criticism of James Bond pinball layout
American Pinball attempted to own Antoinette's likeness in perpetuity (past, present, and future) in the Galactic Tank Force contract
high confidence · Antoinette's Facebook post quoted directly by Kaneda; claim confirmed by Antoinette
American Pinball wanted Antoinette portrayed in a 'more family friendly' way versus her preferred 'provocative' portrayal
medium confidence · Kaneda citing rumors heard 'through the grapevine' about the dispute resolution
Josh Kugler (former American Pinball coder) violated professionalism by publicly praising Dennis's next game over Galactic Tank Force during its marketing window
high confidence · Kaneda quoting Kugler's Pinside post and criticizing the marketing impact
Spooky Pinball set up Scooby-Doo at incorrect pitch during their initial factory stream, making gameplay appear 'floaty and slow'
high confidence · Kaneda citing Spooky Pinball's own admission and comparison to Madison Pinball location setup
Stern will announce its next game after Texas Pinball Festival (Venom or Foo Fighters rumored) rather than at the festival
medium confidence · Kaneda's speculation based on typical Stern timing and announced game speculation
Current pinball pricing ($10k-$15k) has exhausted the community and lacks sufficient mechanical innovation to justify cost
high confidence · Kaneda's editorial stance repeated throughout episode

Notable Quotes

“It's pathetic, people. They couldn't engineer spikes coming out of the tire rims. They couldn't engineer the bulletproof shield popping up out of the trunk... Why wasn't the ball ejecting out of that Aston Martin much more of a pinball moment?”
Kaneda @ ~10:00 min — Core criticism of James Bond mechanical design philosophy; exemplifies broader argument about engineering laziness
“I will die on this hill... there's nothing wow from an engineering standpoint... All of the apologists and all of the fanboys say, just wait till the code is done. Once the code is complete, the game's going to be amazing. I don't care if there's no code in James Bond pinball. There still should be magical stuff happening on an engineering level.”
Kaneda @ ~12:00 min — Kaneda's philosophical stance on hardware vs. code prioritization; pushback against community excuses
“This is the most expensive a Stern machine has ever been. This is the most expensive Jersey Jack Pinball has ever been. These should be the most mind-blowing games we've ever seen. And it's anything but that.”
Kaneda @ ~14:00 min — Direct pricing challenge to manufacturers; sets standard for premium-tier expectations
“I am no longer going to stay silent and I'm going to tell you one of my many reasons why I am disgusted with the pinball industry and why I have no desire to return for a long time.”
Antoinette @ ~19:00 min (quoted by Kaneda) — Opening statement of formal industry criticism; signals serious community sentiment shift
“Basically, I wouldn't compromise and basically let them own and take advantage of me... I have informed this company that if they decide to create this character in my likeness without my consent, that they will be hearing from my lawyer.”
Antoinette @ ~22:00 min (quoted by Kaneda) — Legal threat and professional boundary assertion; demonstrates power dynamic dispute
“No corners were cut on this game and it's an interesting layout that is unique and different from most recent games. I do think Dennis's layout following this one is one of his best ever and bummed I won't get to do rules and code on it.”

Entities

Kanedaperson Jack Dangerperson Keith Elwinperson George GomezpersonAntoinettepersonDavid FixpersonGreg Frerisperson

Signals

?
community_signal: Antoinette's public Facebook post alleging contract exploitation by American Pinball (likeness ownership claims, family-friendly portrayal disputes, dropped from project) creates significant industry drama
high · Full text of Antoinette's post quoted by Kaneda; claims of lawyer review, contract rejection, and threatened legal action; Kaneda confirms identity and game (Galactic Tank Force) via independent sources
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sentiment_shift: Growing skepticism about manufacturer marketing competence; Kaneda frames Spooky/American Pinball/Stern as all committing avoidable promotional errors during critical visibility windows
high · Repeated questioning of why professionals made elementary mistakes (Spooky pitch setup, Kugler public comments, Stern's Texas Pinball timing); Kaneda asks 'Do you understand why marketing is important?' and criticizes 'mailing it in'
?
community_signal: Greg Freris (Stern art director) publicly supported Antoinette on social media, suggesting some internal dissent regarding American Pinball's conduct or broader industry practices
medium · Kaneda notes 'It was interesting to see Greg Freris, who runs the art department at Stern Pinball, chiming in and taking her side already' and questions how Freris could know situation details
?
design_philosophy: Kaneda advocates for hardware-first (mechanical engineering) design philosophy over code-dependent approaches; challenges industry norm of 'wait for code update' apologies
high · Extended critique of James Bond lacking engaging mechanical features independent of code; Kaneda states 'I don't care if there's no code in James Bond pinball. There still should be magical stuff happening on an engineering level'

Topics

Premium pinball pricing and value propositionprimaryMechanical engineering vs. code-driven design philosophyprimaryAmerican Pinball/Galactic Tank Force contract and likeness disputeprimaryMarketing execution failures across manufacturersprimaryBond 60th design adequacy and Keith Elwin involvementsecondaryScooby-Doo playfield setup and gameplay evaluationsecondaryCommunity sentiment on game pricing sustainabilitysecondaryStern's game announcement timing strategy relative to Texas Pinball Festivalmentioned

Sentiment

negative(-0.75)— Kaneda expresses significant frustration with manufacturer pricing, mechanical design philosophy, and marketing competence. While acknowledging some positive aspects (Spooky congratulations, Galactic Tank Force potential), the dominant tone is critical and disappointed. Community sentiment is framed as exhausted and demanding better value. American Pinball drama adds negativity but is treated as isolated corporate failure rather than industry-wide.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.062

Now, even though I told you today would be the day JJP number eight would be revealed, I was wrong. But what I wasn't wrong about is Jack Winari is right now sitting in the JJP factory staring at all of these unsold Toy Story 4s. And this song is playing inside the warehouse. Welcome everybody to Canada's Pinball Podcast, the only pinball podcast in on a holiday giving you a show. So what's going on in the pinball world? We've got Scooby-Doo on location. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about James Bond's 60th is on the line and Keith Elwin is on the line doing God knows what next to the game. We're going to talk about American pinball and some drama happening around this new Galactic Tank Force game. You know, finally a little bit of drama in the pinball world that Kaneda did not even start himself. And we're just going to cover off on what's happening as we head into this week. Now, look, the reason why I think this week is going to be fun is we're finally going to get to see James Bond 60th. I don't know if Jack Danger is going to stream it, but this game is eventually going to be picked up by people who bought it. We're eventually going to see streams of this game by other distributors, and we're all going to know what the real mystery is all about. Like, is this game worth the money? Now, look, we saw Stern's video on Friday. This game is being made as we speak. And we saw that Keith Elwin is on the line with the game itself. Now, look, I always wonder when these designers are standing on the line as they're assembling these games, because the designers themselves are not putting the games together. And they just kind of stand there to add some sort of prominence to the video. And like, oh, wow, look, James Bond 60th is on the line. And Keith Elwin breathed on my machine. All of a sudden, Keith Elwin's fingers might have touched my game. It's now worth a lot more money. Look, he signed the game on the apron. Now it's definitely worth $20,000. Here's my prediction. This game is going to be fine. It is going to be an okay shooter. It is not going to be anything special. And you guys are so tired of me talking about James Bond. There are still the James Bond fanatics out there that keep attacking me because I don't love the layout of the regular James Bond game. And I keep telling everybody, look at the missile section of that game. And you tell me that George Gomez and all the design geniuses over at Stern Pinball, they couldn't put more into the game than what's in the game right now. And I'm sorry, everybody, but I think you're all a bunch of apologists. I'm just going to be pretty strident right now. I've seen all of these James Bond movies. I've seen all of them. I've seen all the gadgets. I've seen the Aston Martin do all these amazing things. And then you look down at this game, people, and think about it for a minute. You're telling me that Stern Pinball could not engineer an Aston Martin to do more than what the Aston Martin does in this pinball machine? I mean, it's pretty pathetic, people. They couldn't engineer spikes coming out of the tire rims. They couldn't engineer the bulletproof shield popping up out of the trunk. You're telling me that all of the engineers and all of George Gomez genius, he could not make that ejecting seat be more dramatic. He couldn't even make it be as interesting as the toy box and Aerosmith. Like why wasn't the ball ejecting out of that Aston Martin much more of a pinball moment? And that's my big issue with James Bond. Okay. There is just nothing that happens in this game. There is nothing that the ball does in the entire game that makes you go, wow, that's amazing. Wow, that's incredible. Wow, that's great engineering. And I think each and every one of you that is making excuses for this game, you're the reason why Sterna Lees are now $13,000 because you're going to plop down $14,500 with taxes for this game. And there's really nothing that great in it. I'm sorry, I will die on this hill. And I think it's become quite pathetic that this amazing toy we love that's supposed to be a mechanically engineered world under glass. And when there's nothing wow from an engineering standpoint, what happens? All of the apologists and all of the fanboys say, just wait till the code is done. Once the code is complete, the game's going to be amazing. I don't care if there's no code in James Bond pinball. There still should be magical stuff happening on an engineering level He all about gadgets and using gadgets to do magical things There no magical gadgetry happening in James Bond pinball It almost as sad as Toy Story 4 with absolutely no toys in it And when are we going to stop making excuses for these companies, ladies and gentlemen? This is the most expensive pinball has ever been. Twilight Zone, when it first came out, was like $3,000. When are we going to start saying this is not good enough for this much money? This is the most expensive a Stern machine has ever been. This is the most expensive Jersey Jack has ever been. These should be the most mind-blowing games we've ever seen. And it's anything but that. All right. So speaking of mind-blowing games, let's talk about Galactic Tank Force and the drama surrounding this game. So we finally got a teaser from American Pinball. It's got a new American pinball logo, which I think looks much better. It's much more Americana, like Captain America with the shield and American pinball with American fonts. And I think it gets people excited. They're letting us know we're going to see the new game in March. We also heard from Antoinette. If you don't know who she is, she's been an ambassador for pinball. You know her as the woman with the incredibly large mohawk. And she put up a very strident post about American pinball. I just want to read it for you because I think you need to hear this. Okay, let me read this. So she wrote, let's start this off with a bang, shall we? I am no longer going to stay silent and I'm going to tell you one of my many reasons why I am disgusted with the pinball industry and why I have no desire to return for a long time. Wow. She writes, to call last year stressful would be an understatement. I understand it was for many. I thought things were taking a turn for the better when a certain pinball company offered me an opportunity that has been a dream of mine ever since I was a kid. To be a character on a pinball machine. Since I signed an NDA, I will not be revealing full disclosure, but once the game is released, the gloves are off and I plan to boycott it as well as the company itself. Okay, so Kinade is here to tell you right now. The company she's talking about is confirmed to be American Pinball. And the game she's talking about is confirmed to be Galactic Tank Force. She goes on to say the following. I was asked by one of my favorite designers to be a character in his new game. I was overjoyed and was put in contact with an art director. I clearly communicated my conditions for entering the project. I would need to approve my costume as well as approval on the artwork. and how my character was going to be portrayed to which they agreed. I agreed to their payment terms which wasn't much but I was just happy to be involved in a game. Months would pass before they finally got their act together and tried to rush everything in a very unprofessional manner and everything we had agreed to before got thrown out the window. The icing on the cake was they tried to force my hand into signing their contract by having it sent from the assistant in charge of travel arrangements in which they stated they had to sign it or they could not book my flight. Immediately, I was appalled by the contract, which basically stated they owned my likeness, past, present, and future. To make completely sure I wasn't overreacting, I had my lawyer review it, to which he advised me not to sign it. I contacted the company one last time and informed them I could not sign this contract but was willing to work with them and have a new contract drawn up that we could all be comfortable with. Let me make this clear. I never asked for more money or special treatment. I simply did not want them to own my likeness. I never heard back. I later heard from people I knew that worked at the company that I had been dropped from the project. Basically, I wouldn't compromise and basically let them own and take advantage of me. Honestly, I'm glad I didn't do it. Knowing now how terrible these people are, I will never again associate with the company or support it. The real heartbreaking thing is that I have several friends at this company and none of them stood up for me. One of them didn't even question why I was dropped. Unbelievable. Glad to see your true colors and that you are not real friends. If you are reading this, please delete me. I have no room for people like you in my life. I've informed this company that if they decide to create this character in my likeness without my consent, that they will be hearing from my lawyer. And with all the evidence I have on file, I will no doubt win this case if it comes to that. This is me taking my power back from a terrible pinball company that thought they could have power over me and own my likeness. in all of my industries I associated with I have never seen unprofessionalism at this level Wow Unprofessionalism at this level Wow Like that was a crazy thing to read and multiple people sent this to me Now Antoinette is talking about American pinball. She's talking about galactic tank force. And I just want to say this, like look, there are two sides to every story and I'm supposed to talk to David Fix about his side of the story. But I will say this, that this Facebook post, and I know Antoinette is very charged right now, but I'm not so sure that writing this note at this juncture is also the most professional thing because maybe you did sign an NDA. And if that was the case, then maybe nobody's supposed to be talking about this right now. And the whole thing about boycotting the company like that gets really serious now like I don't think I've seen anyone come out and say they're gonna boycott a game before the game is even released and I also know the community and I know most of you and you're like if this game is amazing like you're gonna go in on it you're not really gonna care about any of this like people still supported John Papadiuk after all the horrible things he did and people still ordered Raza pinball machines after everything J-Pop did. So I'm not so sure that like American Pinball trying to steal someone's likeness is going to lead to a pinball machine being boycotted. So I did hear some rumors through the grapevine about how this all went down. And I'm just going to say this, the full story is going to come to light soon. And it wasn't really American Pinball trying to exploit Antoinette's name, image, and likeness, I'm actually hearing that American Pinball wanted her to appear on the game in a way that was more family friendly. And she might have wanted herself to be portrayed in a little bit more of a provocative way. And it sounds like they definitely didn't come to an agreement. But saying all this stuff on Facebook and making these kinds of threats, not the smartest move. And No lawyer would tell you to do that. It was interesting to see Greg Freris, who runs the art department at Stern Pinball, chiming in and taking her side already. I also thought that was interesting because Greg doesn't know what went on. And I think we need to hear from both parties right now on this topic before we come to a conclusion. And look, I don't know for sure what went down, but I do know that there are two sides to this story. and I would love to speak to both Antoinette and I would love to speak to David Fix about what went on here. Now I know this 99.9% of you don't care about any of this. You just want to see a magical Dennis Nordman world under glass and if the game is amazing no one's going to care about any of this. We're right around the corner and the more exciting news is that this game is going to be at Texas Pinball Festival. Now the other thing that's really interesting about this game is Josh Kugler, who used to be the coder over at American Pinball, and he was let go from American Pinball about a year ago. He is also chiming in on Pinside about this game, and he's saying some really good stuff about this game. He's saying that there's going to be a lot in this game for us to talk about, and this sort of reinforces what I'm hearing about this game, is that this game is loaded, it's a world under glass, and it's going to be super exciting. But there's another thing that Josh Kugler said about this game that's very interesting and it's also a little bit unprofessional. Let me read you what he said. No corners were cut on this game and it's an interesting layout that is unique and different from most recent games. I do think Dennis's layout following this one is one of his best ever and bummed I won't get to do rules and code on it. Josh, what are you doing? What are you doing right now? We have been waiting forever for this Dennis Nordman Galactic Tank Force, and now you're chiming in and telling everybody to wait and see Dennis' next game? And I'm conflicted because Canada's been telling everyone to wait and see now for a few months, but Coogler, this is the company you worked for. You worked on Galactic Tank Force. Why are you chiming in and telling people it's the next Norman game? we should be excited about. It just kills me to read this stuff because again, all of this is part of marketing. And I would have thought Josh Coogler would have had signed an NDA where he can say stuff like this. See, this doesn't help though, right? Like if I were to tell you like, it's not Keith Elwin's next game you're gonna want, it's the game after his next game. Like that's not good. Like that's not good marketing. That's not a way to get people excited about the Dennis Nordman game that's about to come out. But even with these comments and even with the drama around this game I think everybody here is excited to see Galactic Tank Force I think what this game might symbolize for many of us is can we get a game below $10,000 that is going to be loaded with stuff and if that happens and we see a game that packed even though it not a licensed theme if they actually engineered some magic into this game I think it going to expose everybody else and how they've been ripping us off and how they've been lazy in the engineering department. And I think we need to start demanding more engineering in pinball. I mean it when I say it, ladies and gentlemen, stop running towards these $10,000 plus games for 10,000 or more dollars, we need to have like Elvira's Mansion. We need to have like a T-Rex. We need to have a Godzilla building. Like we can't be buying these games if they're empty like Toy Story. We can't be buying these games if there's nothing mechanically interesting like James Bond. There's nothing mechanically interesting in James Bond. I would even argue there's not that much mechanically interesting in Scooby-Doo, but it's way too early to get attacked by the Scooby-Doo fanatics, but we're now talking about games that are costing between $10,000 and $15,000. Our expectations need to rise with these prices. And so I think American Pinball has a golden opportunity to show us what can be done in 2023. No more excuses, no trickery, don't hide behind the artwork, show us some real pinball engineering. All right, what else is going on in pinball? So we know Scooby-Doo is over at Madison Pinball in Wisconsin. It's on location. If you haven't heard Don's pinball podcast, my friend Don, he played the game four to five times and he said it felt good in his hands. But here's the funniest part about all of this. So Don played the game. He enjoyed the game. So Spooky Pinball themselves has come out and said when they stream the game at Spooky Pinball's location. Remember when Spooky did that like 20 minute stream? Remember when Spooky put up that video and showed us the first gameplay of the game? Spooky Pinball is admitting to everybody that they had the game sitting too flat and that's why the game looks floaty and slow. So wait a minute, let me get this straight. Spooky Pinball, you made the game and you set it up in your factory and you didn't even set it up at the right pitch to show people how the gameplay was? Do you understand why marketing is important? Why you can't mail this stuff in? And I still don't get how spooky pinball. Come on, guys. Get it together a little bit. Get it together. You're about to play your game and show the world's gameplay. You're telling me nobody, the designer was there. The coder was there. Nobody realized the game wasn't set up right. Does anyone else feel like this is weird? Like this is some Scooby mystery? Why would they try to sabotage their own stream? And now that we saw the game at Madison Pinball, the game was faster. There were more outlane drains. The game doesn't look as easy as it was when it was played at Spooky Pinball. But look, I still think the verdict is still out on this game. I want to see Jack Danger play it. I want to see someone who's really good at pinball, like an IE pinball or a Bowen Kerins. I want to see someone who really knows what they're doing. jump on a Scooby-Doo and show us how long the ball times are. Because that's the next major question with this game. But I also just want to say congratulations to Spooky for getting the game out. I think we're going to see more of these games get out to people this week. I think we're going to see James Bond's 60th. And then here's the unfortunate part. We're not going to get Stern's new machine until after Texas Pinball Festival. It's so painful. all these people from around the world are going to be in Texas to celebrate pinball and Stern pinball is going to wait for the week after to announce its next game and then they will bring their new game to MGC it's going to be Venom or it's going to be Foo Fighters oh it just kills me but in the end in the end the next couple of months are all going to be about value all of you are going to want to see games that have a lot in it for this much money I feel like a lot of people are starting to get a little bit exhausted. Like pinball at these prices is just not fun. I'm going to say it. Pinball at these prices, it's not as much fun as it used to be. And the only way any of us want to spend more than 10 grand is if there's magic in these games. Everybody, I hope you had a great long weekend. We will be back with more shows. make sure you vote for my cargo shorts on Patreon or on my Facebook page and we're going to get to the round of the final four with the four finalists of which shorts Canadian might wear to the Twippies this year it's going to be super fun everybody we'll talk to you soon