Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Alan, one half of the Portland Pinball Bar Wedgehead, and joined by my co-host, Alex, the water boy who's one half of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast in his basement studio. How are you doing, Alex? I'm doing pretty good. You don't even let me say the one half joke anymore. No, you're cut off. We ran it into the ground. Yeah, we beat that dead horse, man. I'm only one third of the podcast today because we're joined by our friend Mike from Salt Lake City, Utah. He's the owner of Quarters, which actually now has two locations out there. Mike, how are you doing today? I'm doing great. I'm super excited for this. Nice. We're excited to have you here. I mean, obviously, I love talking to other operators. I love talking about location pinball. We have a friend of mine, Holden, who moved to Salt Lake. Oh, yeah, he's ours now. Yeah, you have him now, which I'm still a little bit upset about, but I'm glad he found a nice home with you guys. yeah he's a good buddy we uh he showed up to a tournament uh when he first moved here and i didn't know he moved here i thought he was just traveling through and i was like all right guys don't let the portland guy fuck us up and then uh and then he won that tournament so holden is one of those guys that got hooked his dad scott used to work at wedgehead for many years and he got bit by the bug and then he just got real serious about it and got real good in a short amount of time but yeah he's great so that's sort of like the first time i heard about y'all i'd heard of quarters previously because my buddy craig lived in salt lake for a while and he spoke highly of quarters yeah it was like the only place he wanted to play pinball in salt lake yeah it seems like a dope spot and we have talked specifically i think right after we did an episode on payment methods and you had mentioned something like, I wish I wouldn't have called the bar quarters because now I have to do quarters. Can you explain the naming of the business and what you meant by that? We were, you know, we're looking for a name. I can't even remember how early we named the thing into the process, but we were trying to get the bar open for three years before it actually opened. So that's good. I don't know when we actually named the thing, But I wanted it to be called Leaderboard, which I now think another arcade bar is called that. But at the time it wasn't. But it like never felt good coming out of the mouth. Leader, Leaderboard, you know, we just wanted something that was super easy to like text or say to your friends. So we just kept it super simple with quarters. Actually, my mother-in-law suggested the name. So and then I just Googled if there was another quarters arcade bar and there wasn't. So we ran with that. I got to say, I'm kind of surprised there wasn't. When did you, sorry, did you mention when, what year you opened? We opened in the beginning of 2018. So I think the same time Wedge had opened. Yeah, 2018. Damn. And the same time the Electric Bat opened, I believe. It's a good year for pinball. Yeah, I think we were like two months before Electric Bat, I think. And then you guys just had your birthday, right? So. Yeah, Wedge opened on 9-11. Never forget. We'll never forget. Yeah. Yeah, we'll never forget. An easy birthday to remember. I'm assuming that you open up the place, and I think what we talked about before was that, I think especially with the pandemic, where you were struggling to get quarters, and that's when you're like, oh, well, maybe I would change it, but I literally can't because it's part of the name. How do you feel about it now after we're outside of the pandemic? I don't know if everyone else remembers the quarter shortage. you probably didn't screw up your lives as much as it did for me what does for arcades that use quarters yeah i had no idea there was a quarter shortage oh it was a big deal dude it was a big deal and it was so long i mean it was like it was like a whole i mean we were still dealing with it almost two years after we were reopened after being closed damn it was still like hard to get quarters and i'm like you're the bank i know this is the place to get quarters how do you not have quarters but we'd go to our bank and they'd give us like three rolls of quarters and i'm like no i need this will last one minute on a friday night yeah oh man yeah when we started talking listening to your episode about different payment methods a buddy of mine opened a place with a swipe card thing and i don't love the swipe card thing but there's so many advantages to that oh yeah i'm like jealous of all the time doing like happy hours and stuff would be yeah sick to do with a push of a button. I can't believe that's not already an Insider Connected feature. Amen. Stern Pinball, give it to us. Everyone wants it. No more badges. I don't care about badges. Give me a payment method. And I know that they don't want to do it because I know that they don't want to be a bank. And I know they don't want to be regulated like a bank. But here's what they need to do is they need to partner with a bank and just split the fee. I don't know what your credit card processing fees are there, but I think ours are like 2.75% or something like 2.75, something like that at Wedge. And you're like, well, if the bank, that's what they need. And Stern added another on that. Like if they just charge 5% to operators and nickel out of every dollar and they got half of it and then the bank got half of it and the bank dealt with all the regulation and the infrastructure that Stern shouldn't need to do. Easy money for them. Operators would love it, dude. And players would love it. So not to get off on a tangent. You're trying to turn Stern into a tech company, though, which, you know, is the big, big scary thing that everyone's worried about. Yeah, well, they hired the Disney guy. He's trying to Disney up the whole place. I think it's important in all seriousness. Like, it's funny, too, because on the pinball subreddit the same day we released our Insider Connected, it just like that whole sub blew up with a whole thread on like people just like screaming about what they think Insider's going to do. going to become. And it was interesting that it sort of just happened at the same time. We had recorded that episode like weeks before. It's just weird. Like they're pinball people that run that company, dude. If they wanted to make money, they wouldn't be in pinball. I mean, they want to make money, but like people think that all these people at Stern or at any of the other companies that like, dude, there's a lot better ways to make more money, especially with the skills that all those people have, whether it's the programmers or the engineers, especially the programmers in programmers i'm like i don't know what they're paying but there's no way it is market competitive there's no way no and and they're doing it because they love pinball i mean gary stern did not need to do this shit he did not need to struggle through the 2000s he did not need to save pinball from extinction you know so it's like i don't know i mean i think just think we got to show some respect for the people at the companies and i think it's crazy because it's like if you don't like it don't use it i mean i said on that episode like i don't have a personal account because it doesn't matter to me as a player but like i'm not too concerned about it do you think would it matter to you if like you got push notifications that were like hey this dude just be your high score at quarters come to the bar because that's what i will i want some i think that would be kind of fun that would actually be kind of fun if it let you know if you lost your gc or something that's cool no i i think that should happen i'm never gonna be that person i'm gonna go into the arcade anyway like if i lived in salt lake and i came into quarters every week i would just check the games while i'm there i kind of want but i can see how like for most people like because i would be checking my high score i'd be like is it still there i don't need my phone to go off anymore i'm a business owner as you are mike i think you can appreciate how like my phone goes off enough all the time and like i don't want any more of it but yeah what we want to talk about what made you open a second location because i think when we talked to the bat they have a second location but that's pretty far away it's a few hours away from them in flagstaff and their main ones in tempe you have two arcade bars in the same city yeah so how does that work and is there enough business for both do you feel like they cannibalize each other or they support each other and tell the listener like one says downtown and one says sugar house can you just describe all of that to the listener downtown is the original one it's like very downtown there's like there is a block in salt lake city and our blocks are huge but there's a block where it's you know there's like 30 different bar maybe not 30 but there's like the highest concentration of bars in the state of utah are on this block and we're on that block so we're we're very downtown on the downtown location and then sugar house is just a really well developed you know kind of second downtown of the city but it's only i think it's only like two miles away so it's it is house that's very close and you know like as far as like uh how well it worked out or whatever i do think like if we were a little further out in the suburbs that we would probably be doing better at the second location. But at the same time, I didn't, I wasn't trying to commute to the suburbs. I like living in the city. I like living in the city. So, you know, I didn't want to commute. You didn't want to go put one up in Ogden or whatever. Yeah. So that I do think, you know, they cannibalize each other, but like the thing, like our, Our downtown location is such a juggernaut that, like, I was kind of like, well, if they cannibalize each other, like, downtown could afford to lose a little business, you know? And just, like, with the idea of rising tides raising all ships. Right. I wanted more places for more people to play. And, I mean, at a certain point, we just had the collection, you know? Right. had enough games that it was like okay well am i gonna pay for a storage unit for all this stuff or am i gonna you know do this thing again and one of the biggest decisions about opening sugar house was like opening uh i have a bar background i like got into the arcade game later um i was trying to open a bar before i was trying to open an arcade bar i know you know this but people don't really realize this running an arcade bar is like a very it's super hard yeah yeah dude it's a lot a bar is hard and then also like adding a bunch of other work on top of it is crazy yes it was just something we kind of we did a good job of on the first one and we were like this is too hard of a puzzle to not try to like recreate right you know once you've done it once you've got that sort of industrial knowledge of how it works and how to do it and i'm assuming you were like going so well that you're like well that feels like the market will support more yeah and i think it can and will we're still and it's interesting we're like as far as like thinking about cannibalizing ourselves is like, I always thought like, well, Sugar House will steal some customers from downtown. People who live in this neighborhood who would normally go downtown will just stay in this neighborhood and be in Sugar House. But like, I really think the draw of downtown, especially in Salt Lake, is just so strong that like really the opposite happens. Like we die at 11 o'clock in Sugar House because people either go home or they go downtown to keep partying. So oh interesting Dying at 11 o is like as a bar owner I sure you know is not ideal Yeah it working Okay Having two locations so close to each other Would you recommend it to other operators I say take the dive on the commute you know Try to spread them out a little bit further. Yeah. We looked at Denver and OneUp has locations within like a mile and a half of each other's. Yeah, OneUp as inspiration. I was like, oh, you're looking at going to Denver. I was like, wow. That is a big commute. Yeah, that is. no that's firmly in their territory sure yeah we just looked at because they have their downtown and they have their colfax location and uh those have been like and obviously you don't know anyone's numbers if you don't if you don't really find out their numbers but they have been operating for several years so i assume that's going all right but they might be in the same boat as us where it's like our second location doesn't really make money it doesn't really lose money but it's just kind of treading water. Sure. Downtown is where I make all my money, which, you know, as long as I'm making some money and I don't have to go out of business, I'm fine with it. Yep. I want to talk about you have the full bar right in the state of Utah. The Utah is well known as like an extremely strict state in which to serve alcohol in the market, super regulated. Has it been difficult over the years dealing with local and state regulations? You said it took three years to get open. So I'm assuming you've dealt with it. Like what unique things does Utah require that maybe other states don't for people that either own bars or go to bars in other states and just the local difference of being a bar in Utah? Well, unfortunately, I've never bartended outside of Utah. So I'm kind of like used to what we do. But, you know, anytime I travel, I'm like, oh, this would be illegal. You know, there's just so many things that I'm like, you can't do, you wouldn't be able to do this. You wouldn't be able to do that. Like what, Mike? Tell us. There's a laundry list and stuff. I mean, high level stuff is like any spiritist drink we pour, whether that's a shot or a cocktail, there's a Berg, the thing called a Berg. It's, you may have in your life encountered them at like an airport it's like a measuring and counting device right so you like have to pour your like if i make you a negroni i have to pour the gin through the berg and then i can jigger the vermouth and the campari but there needs to be like base spirit needs to be basically metered and counted and then like we have audits like i literally had an audit two days ago where the state like checks up on all those numbers to make sure that like basically it's in an effort to make sure you're not giving alcohol away right i wouldn't yeah well you know how business owners love giving away free product well in in the bar industry it does happen i'm like it's not unheard of like yeah i get people pour heavy but it's just funny they're like no this is for like your business's protection we're gonna come audit you to make sure you're not giving away product and you're like come on man yeah i mean i i wish i could shout i like want to scream that in the face of every legislator in my state of like i'm not a frat house throwing a party i have a bunch of rent and other bills to pay i'm running a business i'm trying to make this a profitable business and i think a lot of times they're more than there's a lot of little hoops and stuff you gotta jump through but the biggest thing is like the feeling of being like I'm a business I own a profitable business and I get treated like I'm throwing a house party while my parents are away you know right yeah you're like I'm a taxpayer like I pay taxes like I'm a business owner I create jobs and yeah I support the local economy yeah yeah this is then the other thing is just that like one the liquor laws change all the time they literally do a bill every year so every year something changes so staying up on that is all and a lot of times it's little stuff and for the most part things are getting more lenient which is nice okay that's good so it's trending trending lenient i heard and i don't know if this is the case anymore but i remember being on a road trip with my family uh when i was a kid and we went to utah and we stopped in like a kind of a tavern and my dad went to go get a drink. My mom has been sober for years, but he went to go get a drink and they had to turn around and pour it. Like they couldn't be seen pouring it. Go behind a little curtain or stained glass or something. Always. Is that a thing, Mike? Yeah. So when, when was that? Was that like three thousand? Yeah, that was the nineties. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so a lot of stuff got way better when we hosted the Olympics in 2002. Okay. Hmm. Interesting. But what you're talking about, I did hear, like, I've heard stories from my dad where it's like, you could go to a restaurant, and if they had a liquor license, you could buy a mini bottle from, like, a lady in a closet, but you couldn't buy any liquor from the restaurant. Or, like, just, like, crazy stuff like that. There's just lots of goofy stuff, though, that I've just because my buddy that lived in SLC for a bit, I was asking him once. And there's tons of stuff that isn't necessarily like a huge deal. Like you can't have two drinks in front of you. You can't order like, you know, whiskey rocks and a beer at the same time or something, I think. And similar stuff like that, that it's just I can't imagine having to juggle all of that shit. And I'm sure for the bartenders like yourself that have worked and lived there forever, it's second nature. Like, you know what you can't do. But to me, that just sounds like such a pain in the ass to be worried about a business and worried about, you know, your whatever, 30 arcade games or whatever you got in there breaking and then have to think about that kind of shit all the time, too. It's just crazy to me. Yeah. Yeah. So like that is definitely still a thing of like bartenders in the state need kind of you can have two drinks. Those two drinks can't have the same base spirit. So but you could have like you could have a shot and a beer. Okay, that's what it was. Yeah, so you can't have two beers, though. You can have two beers, but you can't have, like, two gin and tonics. See, this is exactly, okay, this is exactly why I'm like, this is so convoluted. Like, being a bartender, this shit would drive me insane. But I think, like, most of those laws are, that's kind of common sense, though. Like, you shouldn't be reasonably serving people two drinks at the same time. Like, we don't do that at Wedge, either. we're not someone's like hey give me two gin and tonics i'm like i'm not serving you two gin and tonics dude no way i'll give you one you drink it and i'll give you another one couldn't grab like a drink for like your girlfriend or something if it's okay well that's that's a bummer that's a bummer yeah that's the problem is like if you served something like a lady and her dude or whatever and they got a gin and tonic and they got two gin and tonics and then the next time just the dude came up and ordered two gin and tonics like you can't it's just like and what's frustrating about it is it like it basically just makes service bad you know especially for people who don't understand the laws for people traveling to salt lake city and don't understand like that this is how it has to be done here yeah yeah yeah there's a there's a lot of like almost fights where you're like hey man i'm not trying to ruin your night i'm doing my job the way it's been laid out fucking audited us two days ago we have to take this shit seriously the state of oregon has in some ways kind of lenient liquor laws in the sense that like permits aren't fixed like anyone can apply for one but we do have the oregon liquor uh control commission the olcc and they run stings and they take it very seriously and they manage i think they manage the state well i think they you know it's not exorbitant to buy a liquor license like it is and some other places, but they do hold you very accountable for your actions and third-party liability and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, you have like dram shop laws and stuff. Yeah, and like everything we have to buy, we have to buy through the state. There's no private way to buy. So Oregon's probably considered a control state then. Yeah. Yeah, because I know Washington was and isn't any longer. It is not anymore. Interesting. It is. But I think it works well and the prices are good. Like, I really think it actually works pretty well, to be honest. We get better prices on especially high-end stuff because there's a standard markup. There's a standard markup because the state is the distributor. Yeah. That's kind of nice. Other states, you'll get, like, Pappy. I mean, obviously, like, Pappy Van Winkle is very rare no matter where you're getting it. But, like, in other states, you're going to pay, like, $2,000 for a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle. but here it's like a hundred bucks, you know? And then, so then if you are lucky enough to get a bottle, you can turn around and sell it for $50 a shot. And it's still cheaper than any other, you know, like totally. Yeah. Well, I want to session back to pinball here, but I want to talk, since we were talking about bar stuff, I just wanted people to understand that. Like, like you said, you were like running an arcade bar is really hard because running a bar is hard and then running an arcade is hard and then when you combine them everyone's just like well it's easy it's natural and you're like yeah that's why there's a lot of crappy ones everywhere like there's there's a lot of bad ones and then there's the way to do it well which takes a lot of work and dedication and effort and i just wanted to know that because you were in uh i like to highlight regional differences too because people will get on a forum and they're like i traveled to such and such and i can't believe it's a dollar play for a pinball machine or whatever where i'm at it's 50 cents or whatever. And you're like, yeah, I mean, there's lots of differences, man. It could be from their amusement permits. It could be, you know, just the fact that the rent is way higher there or the place that you're from is a low cost of living area versus a high cost of living area, all that kind of stuff. It changes everything and it's unseen. So you're just like, well, I'm getting ripped off when I'm, you know, in this city versus when I'm in this small town in the Midwest somewhere. And you're like, well, it's not the same thing. Yeah. It's not always apples to apples yeah it's it changes but i think you and i've talked about it not you know like not like i don't want to talk about like gross numbers or anything like that you run a bar but you also have some food and then you also do uh your games which is just like wedge right like we do those three things too so like can you describe like a percentage of like what accounts for each like what's the chunk of each like what percentage is games what percentage is like kind of bar stuff and what percentage is food so in utah you're required to quote offer a variety of prepared foods uh even if you're a bar yep same in oregon and then the question is always like what does prepared mean what does a variety mean you know like that's that's the thing the lawyers get to yell about which is great i love god bless our lawyers um but uh so downtown we're in a basement of a hundred year old hotel um it's historically been a bar space it's actually i mean there's a bunch of history it's awesome downtown we have like little to no food program okay just enough to get by just enough to like meet the requirement to meet the legal requirement so you're like preparing bags of chips yeah and like uh a pub mix that we like take pretzels and uh a pub mix that exists and put those together and then serve it in a bowl yeah i mean stuff like that you run into quite a bit of that in portland still i think yeah there's we have to do hot food though you have to serve hot entrees it has to be hot yeah so do you have to have a hood then like if you a bar you have to have a hood There are some things that you can some people can do like a hot dog roller You can do like a steam table Yeah right Some people do like dive bars Some dive bars in Portland because you have to serve hot food and they specify that it has to be like their verbiage is something of like you have to offer three entre – like it has to be an entre type thing. So they can't be like just like a side of beans or something, I guess. It's got to be like what they would consider an entre. What some dive bars do in Portland is they'll keep like hungry man frozen dinners or like Swanson's and they'll microwave you like a frozen dinner. Like if you're like, I need this, like they'll do that. And that's how they so you can still kind of get by where you don't really serve food, but you have to do something. Yeah, I bartended at a cocktail bar before opening the bar and we just had a $60 hot pocket on the menu. And like we would we'd microwave you the Hot Pocket. We are offering food like we're and no one there's no regulation on how if it needs to be priced fairly or whatever. So I think in the four years I was there, I gave someone a $40 Hot Pocket once. And you always had to have the conversation. You're like, no, it's not $40 because it's good. It's $40 because we don't feel like providing food. Yeah, that's a whole nother arm. Back to the original question. So downtown is like 80% booze, 20% coin drop, and I mean, I guess leave a sliver for food. Right, like 1%. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then part of the idea with the Sugar House location was like we wanted it to be, you know, similar, a similar vibe, but different. one of those differences was like we built out a kitchen and spent ungodly amounts of money doing that and we we were big on like trying to offer food but i think because we trained our customers downtown that we were in a food spot like it never really took off at the second spot but we still we do pizzas we have we have like a little pizza oven and we do we do pizzas i would say our food sales there probably still only like five percent the bar is the bar is maybe more like 75 and then coin drops still like pretty 20 about about even i just asked that because and i'll say our own right like we have a full kitchen i was trained in a restaurant so like and with the hot food requirements i was like the way we differentiate ourselves at wedgehead from everywhere else in town is like our food's actually good like we do good scratch food so we sell a lot of food but we also sell a lot of booze and so like our percentages are like we do about 40 percent is like liquor booze uh beers whatever and then about 30 is food and then about 25 is like pinball pinball wristbands because we do the free play model and then you know again the 25 both the food and the pinball can either be like 25 or 30 and they can kind of change back and forth and you know we might and maybe our booze is maybe a little bit like 43 or something and then like we do like two percent of merch sales you know like again like kind of negligible but we actually sell a lot of merch so it's like it's not really negligible but it is for the whole like the pie is small. I think that was kind of our plan for the second spa. That was what I expected, because it's more of a neighborhood spa. I mean, it's not downtown. People aren't bar hopping like they do downtown. And so I like, I mean, when we opened the second location, we were like, okay, we're going to open, we'll get a feet underneath us for the first couple months and we'll open for lunch, because we were really planning on the food being a big part of it. And it's nice that I like it's cool that it worked out for you guys. I think like I said, I think we just trained our our clientele that, you know, it's quarters. It's a bar doesn't have food, you know. So and we do a little bit of food still. But it's hard to teach your customers what you are because what you offer. And we've experimented so much over over our tenure where it's like we change the hours. We change obviously we'll change like menu and stuff will change. We change from being a quarter drop like you were to being free play. We did like a private room type of thing that we did during the pandemic. But like I've worked in restaurants and bars for so long where it's like people decide like this is the place I go get brunch at. This is the place I go for like a date night. This is the place I go out to dance or whatever. So you can offer different things as a bar. but like people are going to decide what they associate you with like you can offer multiple things but people will choose what they see you as yep and i think you can also be hard just shaking like your established base like you said where it's like that's what people are expecting from the past location so even though you put all the effort into like building out a kitchen and building a menu just it's going to be a tough sell i think like in hindsight i would have just copy pasted because my my thing my pitch my slogan going into the second location was like these are going to be sisters not twins we're not doing the same thing twice but they will feel similar it's the same people doing it like right and it's the same overall concept in hindsight i'm like no people want twins man yeah they're right yeah exactly what they yeah that's tough give them what they want you know play the hits nobody wants to hear the new songs people want to hear yeah They want to hear Radiohead play Creep. Yeah, exactly. Well, we want to get back to talking about the games. You have a nice mix of games across your two arcades. I was looking at it just today, and it's like it's not all brand new games, right? You have games of different eras. Yeah, it seems like Sugarhouse definitely skews a little more with the old school stuff. There's some solid states there. The stuff that me and Alan are kind of gravitate towards because it's a little more oddball. It may be a bit newer. at the thing you do still have pretty eclectic lineup a lot of bally williams and stuff yeah in in sugar house the people who come and play in sugar house are definitely pinheads yep and downtown it's a lot of like super casual 21 year olds bar hopping you know right yeah yeah but i also i kind of just like decided to start pushing the solid states one to offer something like a cheaper option for newbies yeah um and then two to just like also expose people to a single level play field you know yeah awesome games from a different era i mean that's what i like about it i mean fair or not when i travel if i'm looking for a place to play pinball if you only have games from the last you know five or eight years i look at that spot as a place that I don't need to go to. It's not interesting. I don't think that you're a true pinhead if that's all you have. And not to say anything that those games are bad. They're not bad. There's a lot of great modern games coming out. We get pretty much every new Stern that comes out and they do great. But it's like, as a pinhead, I'm like, if you're really into pinball, you'll have a favorite game from the 90s. You'll have favorite games from the early 2000s. You'll have favorite games from the modern day you'll have favorite games from the 70s and the 80s like and i just look at it as like like a litmus test of like oh they're putting out these older games so this place is run by pinheads it's like shorthand in my brain you know i'm like well they're putting out all the games so like they they could just keep putting out new games but they're they're making a choice here which is like an immediate signal to me that this place is run by pinheads yeah and truth is like man putting sterns on location is pretty like pretty set it and forget it every couple thousand plays rebuild the flippers yeah they're awesome real nice if anyone who doesn't think stern is the best manufacturer is like so far up their ass it's crazy well the collectors give them a lot of shit the collectors give them so much crap and it's weird they give them so much shit but this their shit is i mean it is rock solid i mean those games are rock solid i have multiple like my iron maiden has over 60 000 plays on it yeah and it's still on the floor and it's still crushing and and so there's i love i love that but like we always wanted to have a good variety of stuff that's my point that's my point it's like it always makes sense to just take the path of least resistance which is I can buy these new, they'll be under warranty. They'll be rock solid. They got the new themes. They got insert insider connected. They got all these things that they have going for it. Lots of new players prefer them. And, but you just see it like where it's like, yeah, whenever somebody does something else, I'm like, that's, that's a pinball spot. Like that is a spot run by pinball people. Especially if it's like, yeah, they've got Gottlieb premier games on the floor. That's I'm always like, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're like, this person does not give a shit about money. He just loves pinball. Yeah. We just put a tag team on the floor, a premier tag team, and people – like, it gets played all the time. That game fucking rules. It does rule. People love wrestling. It does rule. And when we had Matt Frank Thomas, that game played – like, people played the shit out of that game. I think there is something to be said just having oddball games that, especially if you're a destination pinball spot, having games people haven't seen before, even if they're not great games, like Matt Frank Thomas isn't. Careful, buddy. It's not in my top ten, but people want to play it just because. No, it's fun. It's a fun novelty type game. Exactly. It's a novelty, and there's something having novel games has value when you're a pinball spot especially. Speaking of, you mentioned offering the solid states because you could offer them at a lower price. What is like your standard game pricing at your locations? Is it like a buck a play or how do you kind of do it? It's basically, I mean, there's a place in Ogden now, but it's only been open for like about a year. Before that, it's us and there's a place called Keto's. It's a brewery and they pretty much have all sterns. So they're all on buck a play. So this actually has been turmoil for me to be like, I'm in my own. I'm like on my Salt Lake City is very much so a little island in the West. And like the long answer is I've fluctuated many, many times. But what I have landed on is we charge 50 cents for solid states, 75 cents for DMDs and a dollar for anything LCD or, you know, like Pulp Fiction. then obviously it'd be a dollar. Yep. Okay. That makes sense. Makes total sense to me. I think that's like what games should cost in 2024. Yeah. I don't think you can really, I'm always like, I, it's weird. Cause I don't, I don't have a horse in this race. I don't have a horse in this race. I'm just like a consumer, but it's like, I start feeling when you, when you're like blowing games up and getting replays on a modern stern and you're playing for like 45 minutes off of two bucks or something. Cause you got a couple of replays. I just am like, I feel like I should have given the operator more money for that. It's weird. But then it's like at the same time, you can't really charge more than a dollar because a lot of people will go up and they will play the game as long as the ball saves are lit. And then that's it. So it's always a fine line. And I just it feels like the lines at a dollar for modern games. And I think you kind of have it priced right out. It's hard not to get like I've been so self-conscious about pricing over the past seven, almost seven years. of just like because we got tna when that first came out nice i was looking at audits and the average ball time was like 35 seconds yeah it was like like just and i and i literally i was like i can charge a dollar for this everyone gonna hate me you know yeah so for a while uh tna was on 50 cents of Play When I first got into the hobby I made a trip I was living in the Midwest at the time and I made a trip out to Seattle and I went to Flip Flip Ding Ding which is now gone It was in Georgetown, the south side of Seattle. And I specifically went there because they had a TNA, and I hadn't played one yet, and I was all hyped. And it was a buck a play, and I think I put 15 bucks into it. And that was like just like burning through $15 as fast as I could. I was just so excited to play it, though. It's just funny. So I wouldn't feel bad about charging a dollar for that thing. I think that's a special case game. I think that's a special case game. Like Mike is saying, like, I would consider if we were still on Coindrop, that being less than Godzilla. Because Godzilla plays long. That plays short. Yeah. And sort of a balance. than Godzilla. And it's such a party game vibe. Yeah. That, like, when I play that, I, maybe I'm a little bitch, but I don't, I don't enjoy getting my ass kicked. That's not my hobby. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. That's where we differ. You guys definitely seem more masochist a little bit. I love when a game kicks my teeth in, dude. Like, that's, like, my favorite. I like them both ways. Do you love it in single-player play or do you love it when you're playing with four people? Because I love it if it's four people playing a game. Yeah, I love it both. When I play single player, it lights the fire in me. It's not even so much that I'm like, hey, that was awesome. I just played like shit. It's more like I hate the opposite so much, where it's like, hey, I just stepped up. I was going to play a few different games on a few different machines, and now I'm stuck in this 30-minute game of Godzilla that I didn't want to be in. Yeah. And, you know, and, like, i don't like i hate that feeling and part of that's like oh well i got good at pinball so now my game times are longer right but it's like i really enjoy when i go up to a game with expectations like i've gotten this score or i'm good at this game or i know this game or whatever and then it just beats me like it beats my ass and i'm like oh well that was a fluke clearly put another dollar in or whatever and just like okay well maybe it's not my day like and then you go no fuck that like I'm better than this. Like, and then like, I like fighting for a high score. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so like, that's just like my mentality, like that. So I enjoy a game that's challenging. I've seen Alan just feeding quarters into games as fast as he can out of spite. Yo, yeah. Like there's no limit to how short a ball can be that Alan won't put more money into a game. Honestly, when a game, and I know that this is not the majority opinion. I 100% know that so any listeners right now save your emails i already know okay but i am saying that for me personally weirdo me when i go out to a location and a game beats my ass that game is going to get all of my money like because i am going to like i said it lights the fire in me and i am just like i'm gonna play this big buck hunter over and over again because i know that i can get that replay i I know those are factory scores, and I know I can get that score. I was going to bring up the big buck hunter at Wizards World in Fort Wayne. Yeah, because that took a bunch of my money. Yeah, you're like, if you play that game and it's set up easy, you're like, oh, this game sucks. And then you play one that kicks your ass, and you're like, I've got to kill that fucking buck. Got to get it. But anyway, back to pricing and earning and stuff. So your pins are set up. No, we are the ones that steered that completely sideways. Yeah, that's our fault. You're great. You're the guest. We should know better. Your game's very normal pricing. It seems like every operator we talk to is very self-conscious and overthinking their pricing. And that's why I think it's good to just talk about it and hear from operators across the country and be like, no, a buck a play for a modern game makes sense, feels well worth it. Less than that is kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Yeah, it's racing to the bottom. It is interesting when you're at a location like your downtown location versus Sugar House. and you said it's definitely more like pinball guys coming to Sugar House versus Downtown and probably more casual 21-year-old kids at Downtown. Do John Youssi a big difference in earnings? Do John Youssi a difference in like how the games, like which ones are getting like more beat up, which ones need flipper rebuilds more often or anything across the locations? Or is it kind of negligible in that regard? No, I mean, Downtown's definitely a lot more maintenance. There's definitely, I mean, it's more play, but it's also, I mean, noobs like... Just hammer games? Yeah, just hammer games. Like, for a long time, we had really loose tilts in our games. Again, I was self-conscious about, like, someone who might be interested in pinball accidentally tilting, feeling ripped off, and then, like, never wanting to return to the hobby. And so, like, and we still honestly keep our tilts pretty loose for that reason. But I started to realize, like, the only people nudging the game are the ballers anyways. and that's it and the way the games get beat up by noobs is just like chimp flipping you know yeah that's what that's like the where my avengers i rebuilt i did a full flipper rebuild kit on my avengers and then like i no joke like a month and a half later had to do it again wow part of that because it's a premium and that dumb ramp is so hard to hit but you know that kind of stuff where And you're just like, people are just double flipping constantly. Yeah. And I love it. I like if you're on your pinball journey, that's totally fine. Yeah. As long as people are having a good time, like we get kids that do that. We get some adults that do that. And it's like grating. I think it's grating to every operator's ears. You can immediately hear it. And it's like, you're like, yeah, but you just have to like swallow. they might learn and they might get in a pinball and it's all good like it's all good right like if you're like talking yourself off the ledge always rebuild flippers i guess that would drive me nuts man as an operator that would be my biggest like that'd be your hardest transition from like being a collector to like being an operator just watching people chimp flips very difficult for anyone listening that's not heard that term is just when you're just slapping both flippers over and over like when a little kid plunges the ball and then you go bam bam bam bam bam, bam, on both flippers. That's chimp flipping because it's what a monkey would do on the game. And John Youssi more adults do that than you would expect. The worst is I've got a competitive guy who plays a lot of video games. Yeah. And so he'll do, like, the triple button hit with, like, three fingers. Like, it usually, like, he drains the ball, and then he just does, like, both flippers just triple, triple, triple, triple. And I'm like, dude, go home. Go home and play your own games. Like, I want to ask, what's something that you wish that location players understood about the business of pinball, like operating pinballs, that they don't? And are there any worst customer ever type stories or pet peeves that you want to share? I think in general, I just, my thing would be like, I promise you, 99% of modern operators are trying their best, you know? Yeah. like actually actually care they're trying to do the work shit breaks all the time especially if you have a busy location where things are getting played a lot yes i mean i like i'll start a tournament where we just shopped out every game and then by the end of the tournament like a ramp like broke and a diverter popped its welds and it's like that stuff just happens constantly Mandalorian? Mandalorian, my Jersey Jack gums and roses. Oh, no. Yeah. I literally am like, I need to learn how to weld. No, that's my business partner is a welder, and it comes in extremely handy. Anyone out there that's trying to operate pins or if you are an operator, find a buddy that's a welder because you will use it all the time. All the time. Yeah. Yeah, my thing is just like trying to have some grace. Like it was not that long ago where operators only came by once a month and all they did was grab the coins out of the bucket. Yeah, and they were like scumbags. Yeah. And it's like so that's my biggest thing is like I sometimes run into people who are like you're trying to screw me. And I'm like, I swear to God, I am not. Well, it's all you fucking fat cat operators, dude. I know. I've seen it. You guys are all diving into your pool of quarters like fucking Scrooge McDuck. John Youssi my busted 2006 Scion TC that I still have. Yeah, Alan's over here flexing the TC on me every day. My Prius with the bumpers duct taped together. Yeah, no, I agree. That's why we – I mean, that was the motivation to do this show. That's the motivation to talk to other operators because I think every operator, especially – you know, it's like, it's one thing if you're a bad operator, cause they're not even listening or whatever, but it's like they come to work every single day to make sure the games, when you come into Wedgehead play well, like I work every day on those games as things break every single day. By the way, I've been to Wedgehead three times. Oh, awesome. It's definitely, it's, I mean, I think you guys and Logan arcade are probably my favorite, my favorite location spots that I've ever been to. So. Oh, dude, that's awesome, man. Thank you. That's great company. I can't. I'm going to be at Expo soon, so I'm going to go see you there. Are you guys going? I'm not going this year. I'm so bummed about it. Dang it. I'm not there. No, I need to go down to Salt Lake anyway. I want to plan a trip down to Salt Lake because I want to see Holden, and I want to see Quarters because I've heard great things about your spot. Hey, we got a hockey team now, so you should come down for a hockey. That's what, yeah, Holden's hot. 100%. I love hockey, so I would love to see that. I got a half season ticket. Nice. I just want to thank you, Michael, for coming on the show. For anyone that's in the Salt Lake area, you already know about quarters. You should be going to quarters. Whether you were there last night, you should go again today. There's never too many times that you can play pinball. For everyone else, if you're making a trip and you're going through the region or you're traveling to Salt Lake, you absolutely need to stop by one of these quarters locations and support them because they're fighting the good fight, man. They're putting cool machines out of all eras, and they're maintaining them, and they're offering a cool spot for you to come visit and play some pinball machines. For everyone else outside of those regions, just go out and play some pinball anyway. Support your local operator, whoever they may be, and until next time, good luck. Don't suck. Outro Music Good night. God, let's move and twist away. It must be a more room to play. I'll twist and stir and kill the poor. Good night. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor. Good night. Those fucking English chaps could only say shit about us Americans. All we were to them was a bunch of hicks. But you know what? I'm not a fucking hick. I don't wear cowboy boots. I hate the fucking rodeo. Horses smell like shit to me. And I never fuck anyone in my own bloodline. By definition, I'm not a redneck and goddammit, I ain't a fucking hick. Oh, the sun never sets on the British Empire. Well, the sun never sets on my asshole!