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Life Lessons with Tim Lee, Episode 10: Toppers and Casinos

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Nov 12, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Tim Lee playfully scolds friend Eric Pearson for expensive pinball purchases in debut Poor Man's Pinball episode.

Summary

Tim Lee hosts the first Poor Man's Pinball Podcast episode of his 'Life Lessons with Tim Lee' series, featuring guest Eric Pearson. The episode covers Eric's pinball journey over two years, his casino industry background, their friendship through Penn State tournaments, and a humorous confrontation about Eric's $2,000 Mandalorian topper purchase and other premium game acquisitions. The conversation explores collector spending habits, game preferences (Pro vs Premium), and upcoming orders including TNA and Cactus Canyon.

Key Claims

  • Eric Pearson has been playing pinball for just over two years, starting at Level One arcade in Gilbert, Arizona.

    high confidence · Eric directly states this in introduction section

  • Eric works in the casino industry and has worked as a GM/CEO; now developing a new casino project and teaching casino management at Penn State.

    high confidence · Eric explicitly describes 25-30 years in casino industry, from busboy to GM/CEO

  • The Mandalorian topper costs $2,000.

    high confidence · Tim repeatedly mentions '$2,000 topper' when discussing the Mandalorian accessory

  • Eric's son Dev is 13 years old and a strong competitive pinball player with top-three tournament finishes.

    high confidence · Eric mentions his son is 13 and has had 'really good top three finishes at the big tournaments' in Arizona

  • Stern Star Wars premium on location costs approximately $1 in quarters for 45 seconds of play.

    high confidence · Eric uses this as comparison to Ms. Pac-Man's quarter-for-45-minutes value

  • Eric has ordered a TNA machine and expects to pick it up at Spooky's Factory in Benton, Wisconsin the following week.

    high confidence · Eric states: 'I just got my email. It should be, if the stars align, when I start my drive back to Phoenix next week, I may be routing through Benton, Wisconsin to pick up my TNA at Spooky's Factory'

  • The new TNA is priced at $9,000.

    high confidence · Tim states: 'I see that it was in a matter of weeks of each other that TNA, the new version of TNA is $9,000'

  • Stern Bond Pro is priced at under $9,800 (implying under this threshold), whereas the premium is $9,800.

    high confidence · Tim references Stern raising the Bond premium to $9,800 and states their friendship would have ended if Eric bought the premium instead of pro

  • Chronic Town arcade location in State College, Pennsylvania has closed down.

Notable Quotes

  • “I went from, you know, playing on location some to to buying my first game, to buying more games, to playing in tournaments. And now it's pretty much taken over.”

    Eric Pearson @ ~10:00 — Describes rapid escalation from casual player to serious collector over 2 years

  • “You're part of the problem here, right? So why did you get the Mandalorian topper? ... oh, my goodness, who's going to buy this? What kind of idiot would buy this? Two thousand dollars. You're nuts.”

    Tim Lee @ ~20:00 — Core conflict of episode: Tim criticizing Eric's $2,000 topper purchase, which Eric had pre-ordered

  • “I'm pot committed on my Mandalorian game. And so I'm pot committed on the Mando topper.”

    Eric Pearson @ ~25:00 — Uses casino terminology to justify accessory purchase; key character moment

  • “I'm inherently an irrational pinball spender in the very fact that I own games. So you can't talk sense to me. I mean, I'm already, I'm already a crazy person.”

    Eric Pearson @ ~28:00 — Self-aware acknowledgment of collector irrationality; sets tone for humorous debate

  • “I didn't tell you that. I was afraid to move it. But I moved it, and I feel like just moving it, my middle ramp is a little bit better.”

    Tim Lee @ ~45:00 — References Halloween game playfield adjustment; ongoing technical discussions

  • “I think I'm coming back to the pro level again. I dip my toe in the water, and I'm kind of a pro kind of guy, and I don't feel as bad shaking the pros.”

    Tim Lee @ ~65:00 — Tim's realization about his collector preferences and willingness to physically use machines

  • “I just got that from Morgan Emery. She let me know, do you think the game's going to be ready next week? She says, where do you want it shipped? And I said, you don't even have to put it in the box. I'll be if it's if it's ready next week, I'll just come pick it up.”

    Eric Pearson @ ~85:00 — Confirms TNA pickup logistics and eagerness; shows Morgan Emery communication at Spooky

Entities

Tim LeepersonEric PearsonpersonDevpersonJoe ShawpersonKeith ElwinpersonMorgan EmerypersonPoor Man's Pinball Podcast NetworkorganizationStern PinballcompanySpooky Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Mandalorian topper priced at $2,000; described as among coolest toppers ever with integrated screen and functionality; pricing discussed as potentially establishing precedent for future topper costs

    high · Tim: 'the next topper is going to cost three thousand dollars because of you'; Eric confirms $2,000 price and justifies based on features and integration level

  • $

    market_signal: Stern Bond premium raised to $9,800; TNA new version priced at $9,000; described as pricing creep that impacts purchase decisions

    high · Tim: 'when they raised the premium to 9,800, I was like on fire'; 'TNA, the new version of TNA is $9,000'

  • ?

    product_launch: TNA machine expected to ship/be available for pickup within one week; Eric planning factory pickup at Spooky's Benton, Wisconsin location

    high · Eric: 'It should be, if the stars align, when I start my drive back to Phoenix next week, I may be routing through Benton, Wisconsin to pick up my TNA at Spooky's Factory'

  • ?

    product_concern: Halloween machine had significant ramp and technical issues (middle ramp difficulty); resolved after professional technician visit; Tim still has concerns but game now functional

    high · Tim: 'I had a lot of problems with my Halloween. Now it's worked for four or five months'; required professional tech intervention

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Ultraman features unique ball lifter mechanic through subways and end lanes instead of traditional ramp returns; requires player acclimation period; described as cool twist once understood

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.236

0:30
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Life Lessons with Tim Lee, Episode 10. This is the first episode of Life Lessons with Tim Lee on the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast Network. I'm here today with my special guest. Do you want to introduce yourself? Sure. My name is Eric Pearson. I'm excited to be here with you, Tim. Okay. How are you doing today, Eric? I'm doing fantastic. How are you, Tim? I'm doing fine. Have you ever heard of Life Lessons with Tim Lee? No, I haven't, and I'm very curious to know what this is all about. What is a Tim Lee Life Lesson?
1:13
So Tim Lee, Life Lessons with Tim Lee, is a podcast that I used to do with my children and my wife, and we would distribute it privately. I would send it out to all the folks in the Poor Man's Network. I would post it on my Facebook and my social media. I never really got more than 125 listens doing it that way, but it was just something fun with my kids and myself that we would do.
1:43
And I never wanted to post it publicly because when you do podcasting, sometimes people send you nasty grams. and I didn't want anybody to say anything about my kids like, you know, because I would be like Papa Bear and be like, ah, you can't say anything bad about my kids. So I would distribute it privately. Why it's called Life Lessons with Tim Lee. And since my kids were little and you've known me now for a while, there are times when I have to tell people that they're wrong. And there are times when I have to give people a true life lesson. So my entire family, you know, when I would have to say something important, I would say, all right, everybody, it's time for life lessons with Tim Lee. And I would bestow my wisdom upon them. And my family would roll their eyes and, you know, I would give them a life lesson. It actually got to the point where I would do it with my, with their friends. Now, when it was my family, I would actually give them real wisdom talking about college or how they did something wrong in school with the friends. That's up to their parents to, you know, kind of, um, to kind of parent their kids, but it would usually be funny. So it got to be a big joke around here that, you know, anytime I would say there's a Life Lessons with Tim Lee episode coming, everybody would roll their eyes. So does that make sense? Yeah, this is all now starting to come into focus for me. So all of the things that you have been chastising me for, I'm about to receive corrective Life Lessons on. Is that, I feel like I've been duped into being berated publicly, which I'm, you know, game for, of course, but I think I see where this is going. I won't berate you, but as we've been talking over the last three weeks, there's some things going on where you truly do need a life lesson with Tim Lee. And, um, you know, we've become good friends. You're not the only one of my friends that, that has, that has told me this. So you are in good company. No. Um, so why don't you just go ahead real quick and just tell, tell the listeners, you know, a little bit about yourself and kind of where you're from and where you're playing pinball. Yeah, so I've been, I'll start with the pinball first. So I've been playing pinball now for just over two years. Okay. We got right before the pandemic started, a buddy of mine and I who've always been into arcade games, we started playing at this local arcade joint that opened up, Arcade, a place called Level One in Gilbert, Arizona. And we were there for the, you know, coin op Galaga and Ms. Pac-Man and all the cool retro arcade games. And they had about a half dozen pinball machines there, you know, which we didn't understand. You know, I could put a quarter into a Ms. Pac-Man and play for 45 minutes, or I could put a dollar into a Stern Star Wars and play for 45 seconds. Yep.

high confidence · Eric states: 'Unfortunately, that location closed down a few months back'

  • Stern Games has a 'Stern Army' program that encourages tournament organization.

    medium confidence · Eric recounts Stern response: 'we really think you should be part of the Stern Army and you should put on tournaments'

  • “I felt that that was I was definitely a minnow among sharks in that tournament.”

    Eric Pearson @ ~38:00 — Describes experience at competitive tournaments; self-aware about skill level

    • Level One Arcadevenue
    Tilt Arcadevenue
    Electric Bat Arcadevenue
    Chronic Townvenue
    Mandaloriangame
    TNAgame
    Godzillagame
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Deadpoolgame
    Halloweengame
    Ultramangame
    Cactus Canyongame
    Star Trek Progame
    Demolition Mangame
    Hot Wheelsgame
    AIQgame

    high · Eric: 'It does take some plays to get used to that mechanic. And then once you do, I mean, I don't notice it anymore'; 'it takes more than a few credits to really understand and appreciate that game'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Dev (age 13) described as 10x better player than Eric; achieves top-3 finishes at major Arizona tournaments; intimidates experienced tournament players who initially underestimate him

    high · Eric: 'He's 10 times the player I am'; 'he's 13 now...usually in the top three' of tournaments

  • ?

    venue_signal: Chronic Town arcade in State College, Pennsylvania closed a few months before this episode; was venue for tournaments organized by Eric and Tim; replacement venue in planning stages

    high · Eric: 'that location closed down a few months back. But plans are in the works to get another spot up and going here in the state college area'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Tim moving away from premium purchases back toward pro-level machines; recognizing premium spending as unsustainable; AIQ premium with only 160 plays in 6 months being sold

    high · Tim: 'I think I'm coming back to the pro level again'; 'I'm a $9,000 pinball machine with 150 plays on it in six months'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Eric positions premium purchases as justified only for personally meaningful themes (Mandalorian, Stranger Things); dismisses premium for generic themes even when widely praised

    high · Eric: 'the only time I am really motivated to go for the premium is if it's a theme that's really special to me'

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival featured Cactus Canyon topper demonstration by CGC (Chicago Gaming Company); Tim attended session and decided to upgrade to topper version as result of presentation

    high · Tim: 'I saw that topper at the Texas Pinball Festival earlier this year and sat in on the session that CGC held talking about the topper and its development. And that's what really sold me'

  • ?

    content_signal: Life Lessons with Tim Lee podcast previously distributed privately (max 125 listens) now launching publicly on Poor Man's Pinball Podcast Network; format remains same but audience expanding significantly

    high · Tim: 'I used to do with my children and my wife...I would never really got more than 125 listens doing it that way...This is the first episode of Life Lessons with Tim Lee on the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast Network'

    • 4:36
    That's how it goes. Yeah. But there was a following and we saw the same few people playing those games a lot. And we said, hey, you know, let's let's really let's give it a shot. And so we said, let's give it a week. And we went there usually a few times a week. So we did that. And for a week, which turned into two weeks, which turned into the past two years, it's quickly grown into an out of control addiction. I admit that freely. And I went from, you know, playing on location some to to buying my first game, to buying more games, to playing in tournaments. And now it's pretty much taken over. So that's that's that's my pinball story. My my life story, how I afford my quarters. I've for the past. it's almost 30 years now, 25, you know, 25 to 30 years. I've been working in the casino industry. I started off as a busboy. I grew up in a small, you know, kind of gambling town called Laughlin, Nevada. I actually grew up in Bullhead City, Arizona, which is on the other side of the river and started working in casinos when I was real young and worked my way up through the business. I worked on the Las Vegas Strip for a big company out there and I've worked for tribes in casinos and worked my way up through the industry and became, you know, eventually the casino GM CEO. And I'm now developing a new casino project and also teaching at Penn State. I teach casino management also too. So I'm a casino guy. So that's kind of how we met. You fly between Arizona and State College, Pennsylvania. And, you know, we became friends because you were kind of integral in starting some of the local Penn State pinball tournaments with our friend Joe Shaw, correct? Yeah, we when I got out to State College to work on the project here, there wasn't any place nearby that was doing tournaments. And so I just emailed Stern and asked, hey, is there a list? This is before I really knew that I could search on the IFPA site and things. And I got a response back that said, no, there's no tournaments in your area, but we really think you should be part of the Stern Army and you should put on tournaments. And I said, oh, okay, I don't have an arcade. He said, oh, that doesn't matter. Just find one and make it happen. And so I did. And there was a location here called Chronic Town, which had been in State College for a long time and connected with a gentleman named Joe Shaw, who was taking care of the games there and started running tournaments. And that's when we first met and had a lot of fun doing that. And unfortunately, that location closed down a few months back. But plans are in the works to get another spot up and going here in the state college area to bring competitive pinball back the central PA. Yeah. Let's hope. I remember when we first met, I was playing and I heard you say, is that Keith Elwin? And I turned around and I said, no, it's Tim Lee, better than Keith Elwin. So just kidding. No, but we met and you've seen me play really well and you've seen me play terrible. You were there. So we've gone to a couple of tournaments in Pittsburgh together as well. You were there for the infamous tilt incident at the Helicon tournament where I swear I was on fire on Godzilla and tilted numerous times, to which I think I still bring that up with you, right? Yeah, I call it the tilt heard around the world. You really have not let that one go, and it brings me no end of joy to bring it up in casual conversation whenever I can. Yeah, I was so fired up with that. And then we went down to AK's tournament in New Brighton, Pennsylvania, and he has a pretty good collection, and we went up against some pretty good players there. So we've been having a lot of fun. Yeah, I felt that that was I was definitely a minnow among sharks in that tournament. And my son came with us to Dev, who is, you know, 10 times the player I am. And in the you know, definitely in the in the Arizona pinball scene, he's he's the one he's 13. So he's sort of the one kid that's always out at a lot of the big tournaments and usually does pretty well. He's had some really good top three finishes at the big tournaments out there. So he's – and I love it because it gives – all it does is it fuels my reasoning and justification for all of my ridiculous spending. And I call it spending. I don't call it investing, my ridiculous spending on my pinball hobby. Money in the bank. That's what they say, which is totally fine. But we'll get to that. So your son, really nice kid. you've raised him well super nice kid I'm 6-1 against you according to IFPA but I'm 0-1 against him funny story is I don't know the rules to Star Wars and I kind of we were at the Helicon Strikes tournament and I kind of walked up to the game and I'm like yeah I don't know the rules to this I don't really know what to do how to start a multi-ball he wasn't telling me you were fishing and he wasn't biting No, no, and he destroyed me. I think he had like a billion points in like 30 seconds, and I played a really long ball when I look up and I had like 150 million. I'm like, so no, but he beat me pretty bad on Star Wars. So that's cool. You know, I hope we can get something started here in Central PA. It's kind of, you know, it was a lot of fun. Hopefully you and I can find some tournaments to go to, maybe the Helicon Open, and get things going. Yeah, I got my sights set on that. And don't feel bad about Dev beating you. It's been interesting every time that Dev and I, you know, I go to a tournament with him, and especially if it's in a group of people that have never seen him before, Or everyone thinks it's super cute that there's this, you know, 12, 13. He's 13 now, but he was 12 when he really started playing. Like, oh, you know, it's great that the kid's out here. And I just always kind of nod my head and go, uh-huh. And then after our first few rounds, people start saying, yeah, he's actually pretty good. And I go, uh-huh. And then towards the end of the tournament, when he's usually in the top three, they'll come over and go, yeah, is he usually like this? Yeah, he's a real thing. He really can play. And when he's on, it's tough to beat him. Yeah, he's pretty good. I've only ever gotten mad one time, and that's the time I tilted Godzilla, if you hadn't heard. Like, still to this day, I never shook the machine, and it just tilted magically twice. But no, I don't get mad when people beat me. It happens a lot. All right. Are you ready to get to the reason why we're here? I'm ready to receive my life lessons. We'll go ahead and we'll give a little background. You and I go back and forth a lot on pinball and I go on rants and to all my friends, I go on some rants and we both have a Mandalorian. We do. You know, I sometimes get annoyed that the prices keep going up and so forth, and the Mandalorian topper was revealed. And I think I went on this. I don't even know if you responded, but I might have sent you like 20 messages like, oh, my goodness, who's going to buy this? What kind of idiot would buy this? Two thousand dollars. You're nuts. Blah, blah, blah. Like, come on. This is going to ruin pinball. and I get a nice little message back from you and it says, oh, by the way, I just ordered my Mandalorian topper. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I had to let you get it all out of your system first. Yeah. So I got to ask you, like, you know, you're part of the problem here, right? So why, why did you get the Mandalorian topper? It looks, it looks totally awesome. So there's not, you know, I don't have any deep philosophy behind it. I saw the video. And let me back up. So Mandalorian was a very special show for me and my son. We watched it together. I'm a big Star Wars and sci-fi fan going back my entire life. Okay. And when that show came out, you know, I was a bit disappointed with the new trilogy that came out, especially, you know, how it ended the last two movies in it. And and the Mandalorian really sort of kind of saved the way that I was feeling about the new Star Wars universe. The second season ended. And so it held a special place in my heart. I have this big camper van, and I named it the Razor Crest, and that's after the Mandalorian show. And so when the game came out, I got a premium. I tried to get an LE, and I couldn't, although I'm very thankful now that I didn't spend the extra money on that. But I got a premium, and I have it totally loaded out. So I ordered the armor. I got the shooter rod. I got all the stuff to do the Grogu mod. And so this this Mando is the game that I want to be like the definitive version of the game. So when I had ever since the game came out, I talked to my distributor and I said, hey, you know, when the topper comes out, I want the topper. You know, I want to be on the list. I want to get the first run. And so really for, you know, ever since I got the game, I've I've been on the list to get the topper. So I've been in on it the entire time. I wasn't thrilled that it was two thousand dollars. obviously, like everybody else. But, you know, I felt I'm kind of in the casino world, we call it pot committed. You know, I'm pot committed on my Mandalorian game. And so I'm pot committed on the Mando topper. Let me ask you this. I might have sent you 100 messages, another friendly messages. I will say this. If you're my friend, you're going to get ripped on. And I expect you to rip on me, just like Drew and I do. so I might have sent you quite a few messages you're part of the problem you know the next topper is going to cost three thousand dollars because of you but I was also in on the topper as well and I backed out we do like Mandalorian I actually think Mandalorian saved the book Boba Fett as well I thought you know I didn't really like that show until the Mandalorian got involved but I Mandalorian is the only game that I've purchased without ever playing you know it's And I'm doing that with Bond because Amy loves Bond. But let me ask you this. I've been kind of harassing you. If it were a Deadpool topper or one of your other games, would you have bought it? No. For $2,000? No, no. It really was because, A, I do think it is also really cool. Everything that I've seen and from what I can glean from the videos and documentation that's come out, I do think it looks like, in my opinion, the coolest topper that I think I've ever seen, definitely on any game that I own. And I usually don't go in for that kind of thing. So on all the machines that I have, I have one other premium, which is a Stranger Things, that I did buy the topper for. And that was my first game. But that was, in comparison in price, I think that was like $500 or $600. Yeah, I have that as well. Yep. Yeah. And I have a lot of other games. And I haven't bought toppers for any of them and wouldn't even really consider doing it. But, you know, the Mando A, the topper is super cool. And I do think it has more in it than a lot of toppers that go to other games. And it seems like they've really integrated a lot of functionality. And, you know, there's another screen in there and things like that. Now, do I think that all of, you know, the assemblance of the materials is worth $2,000? dollars? No, but I think, you know, I'm inherently an irrational pinball spender in the very fact that I own games. So you can't talk sense to me. I mean, I'm already, I'm already a crazy person for, you know, buying all these, these commercial machines for my own home, you know, that I could find on location and just, you know, instead play, you know, pay dollars for instead of thousands of dollars to own. So I'm already nuts. So I, and I accept that I own that. I, and I, and I, very, you know, in, in, in just fine to receive the, the abuse from you and others. And because it is fun for me and, and I think it will increase my, my enjoyment of the game. So has anyone else told you that you're nuts for buying the topper or is it just me? Literally, literally everyone that knows. Well, I just thought it was funny because I went on this rant and didn't – like you hadn't even responded. You might have been working or something and you just got back. And then I felt bad, but then I spent the next two days telling you that you know you're nuts, right?
    18:19
    Let's back up real quick though. Real quick, go through. What games do you have in your collection? So, yeah. So Stranger Things was the first game that I bought. And I bought that right when everyone was at the height of hating that game. Yeah, so did I. I bought it from a distributor in Arizona that just had it in inventory and couldn't move it. And so I got a pretty good deal on it. And then it wasn't long after I got it that everyone really changed their tune on it. I always loved the game. I played it on location at a location called Tilt in Phoenix, Arizona area and really loved it. And then it quickly escalated from there. So Stranger Things came in. Then I bought a Star Trek Pro. Okay. I had that one. Great game. Oh, yeah. It's great. I still have that. And then I bought a Demolition Man after that, which I sold. Okay.
    19:19
    Then I think Mando came next. Then Godzilla. Deadpool. I got a Hot Wheels. which I've since sold, although it was a great game. That was a difficult decision to sell that one And then I went in on an Ultraman which I have and love I got I think the the unicorn Ultraman that came from the factory worked perfectly never even lifted the play field on it And and and with all the code updates, I've really enjoyed that game. So I'll stop you right there. We talk a lot about Ultraman and Halloween because I had a lot of problems with my Halloween. Now it's worked for four or five months. So I had a professional tech come in to help me get over kind of the hump. But it's worked really well. I actually moved it today. I didn't tell you that. I was afraid to move it. But I moved it, and I feel like just moving it, my middle ramp is a little bit better. And I re-leveled it. So maybe that had something to do with it. Still hard to get up to the top. But you always kind of pick on me because you had a problem. You said your middle ramp you can hit really easily and get up to the butt pretzel shot, which I personally think is the best shot in pinball. Yeah, that ramp shot for me has never been a problem. Like I said, I'm a pretty handy guy in tech stuff. A lot of my background in the casinos has been working on slot machines and things, and there's a lot of parallels between slot machines and pinball machines. And so, yeah, ever since, like I said, I think I lifted the play field when I first unpacked it just to look underneath, but I've never had a single technical issue on that game the entire time I've owned it. And I was totally nervous that I would because I heard all the stories. I'm friends with a lot of operators in the Phoenix area that have the game and have had trouble with it, but mine has been perfect. And I have a ton of plays on it. I play it all the time.
    21:23
    Halloween's more enjoyable now that it works. I'm still a little bit disappointed in the ramp. I wish it had. I can get up to the top every game three times, four times. I have it on five balls, so some of my guests can get up there. I'm begging Spooky on Halloween to carry over progress to get up top in the Michael Myers or that house area just so you don't have to restart. Because when my guests get up there, and I'm guessing Ultraman has the butt pretzel where you hold in the flipper and it does the figure eight. I could do like three or four of them in the row, and that's fantastic. But it's not bad. It's not as bad as everybody says it is once it started working. And it's by far the most played game besides Stranger Things in my collection from guests. I just had people over last week, and I heard it the entire time. Never stop. Yeah, it's a great game. I love it. I think it is at a disadvantage if people have only played it on location, because it definitely is a game that you need to get a few plays on just to understand better the rhythm of the ball lifter. Because there's not ramps and, you know, habit trails that return the ball to your flipper. You know, it goes through the subways and then pops up in the end lanes. It does take some plays to get used to that mechanic. And then once you do, I mean, I don't notice it anymore, and I like it just fine. It's kind of a cool twist. But if your only exposure to it is playing it at a show or playing it on location, and, you know, it takes more than a few credits, a few plays to really understand and be able to appreciate that game. I would freely admit myself if I'd only had a few games on it, I would also think that, you know, it's got some pretty big issues. So I would say, you know, find someone that has it in a home environment or be prepared to, you know, put, you know, more than five or six plays on the game on location before you can kind of, you know, really give it a fair shake. Yeah, I wanted Ultraman. Amy said no. And we got a Halloween. Now, I was at the Allentown show when Spooky, a couple of years ago, first brought Ultraman. It was like the first time they put it on location. I don't know, but there was a gentleman in front of me that played one ball, and he played for a really, really, really long time. And he kind of had that Lyman Sheets stance to him, like where he was backed up and crouched over, and he kind of looked like Lyman Sheets. And then I played a ball, and I had a huge ball. I played for like 10 minutes. There wasn't anybody behind me when I started, maybe one person. But when I looked back, there were like 12 people to 15 people behind me and I drained on purpose. And Bug was like, why did you drain? I just wanted to be respectful. but then I was driving home and I was thinking did Lyman Sheets play in front of me so I don't know if he was at Allentown allentown here but it looked like him he had the stance but that would have been cool if I would have said something to him I should have asked but I don't know I don't even know if he goes to Allentown but okay what did you get after Ultraman don't tell us the last game that you just ordered because we got to talk about that one keep that one out so but go all the up to that game okay so i got and i forget where i'm in the in the order but uh so i got a i got a godzilla pro um and a deadpool pro and then i also have ordered a bond pro which i'm hoping to get here pretty soon i'm real excited for that so i'll stop you right there yep that we stayed friends because you purchased a bond pro if you would have got the premium we probably wouldn't have been friends anymore. I'd be like, we're breaking up. So no, but you and I kind of saw eye to eye on that one because again, you, Skateboarder Glenn, Drew, and my buddy Jonathan Hall probably are the ones who get the most text from me when I don't agree with something. And when they raised the premium to 9,800, I was like on fire. And I think both of us agreed that we didn't see enough in the premium to go that high. Yeah, I have. I mean, just from a philosophy standpoint, I'm really a pro buyer for the most part. And the only time I am really motivated to go for the premium is if it's a theme that's really special to me. And I look at it more from the standpoint of like mods. Like I, you know, I like a lot of games. Like I love Deadpool. Deadpool and Godzilla are, you know, I think are, you know, maybe the two best pinball machines I've ever played in my life. And I own them both. And even when Godzilla came out, you know, I think there's not someone that could really argue that the premium is not worth it. I think all of the cool features that come with Godzilla premium are amazing. But even then, I got the pro because it's just not a theme that speaks to me. And I think that the shots are all close enough that I'm happy with the pro and I love it. I think everyone that got the premium is absolutely right to get it. But generally speaking, you know, the only time I get a premium is if it's a special theme to me. So Stranger Things was another show that and a theme that was special to me. So I got the premium of that. And and Mandalorian, like I said, is a very special theme to me. And so I got the premium of that. But, you know, Bond, I was never even I would never even was. considering the premium for Bond. It was always the pro for me. Okay, so that's the pro that saved our friendship. I'm actually a pro buyer as well. I purchased the Godzilla limited edition because my buddy got it for me at cost. And you know, I told you this the entire time, I felt very uncomfortable having a machine that expensive, but I fell in love with the mechanisms. I knew Keith Elwin, limited edition. I was going to be able to sell it after 800 plays or whatever it was, and I did. Now, during that time, the same individual gave me a good deal on an AIQ premium, and I had purchased a Mandalorian premium because my family loved the show, and that's the game that I purchased without playing. And guess what? My Mandalorian premium and my AIQ premium are both for sale. If anybody wants it, I'll autograph it for them. It'll probably take it down in value, at least $2,000. Rachel can probably autograph it. It'll take it up in price, but I'm kind of backing off the premiums. Mando, I just – I'm just – I've played it. I love the game. I've played it a lot. Time to go. AIQ, I was just talking to Drew about this yesterday. I'm like – I'm sitting there. I'm getting my bond, so I have to sell something. I'm like, what should I sell? And I'm stressing out about it. I'm sending you message upon message. Like, I don't know what to sell. I don't want to, I don't know what to sell. So I've had AIQ for six months and it only has 160 plays on it. and I'm like, that's a $9,000 pinball machine with 150 plays on it in six months. Guess what? Rush has like 800 on it in six months. So I think I'm coming back to the pro level again. I dip my toe in the water, and I'm kind of a pro kind of guy, and I don't feel as bad shaking the pros.
    29:18
    Yeah, you got to get over your nudge hesitation. You know, these things, they're built like tanks. You got to give them the business, Tim Lee. I can't. I have such a hard time nudging on a premium. I'm afraid I'm going to break something. I do nudge Godzilla. It's built well. I don't slap save as much as I should. I do the micro nudges a ton, but I don't really slide and do the heavy nudging. I just, I don't know. I always felt like I was going to break the machine. But, you know, stern prose. I think Raymond Davidson said it on Rachel and Raymond's show, The Ray Ray Show, on episode two, if you haven't listened, that these machines are meant to be – I don't want to say beat on, but they were meant to be nudged. They were built to industrial strength to hold up in locations. So that made me feel good. So the way I look at it is there's these games are meant to handle the abuse of that heavy steel ball firing around there at pretty high velocities and smashing into things repeatedly. They can take a little a little nudge here and there and a little bit of sliding. So I'm definitely not shy to to move my games around. OK, so back to the games. Do you have any other games? I think that's it. I do have a Cactus Canyon on order. I got the Cactus Canyon, what is it, the SE Plus, the one with the topper. And here I am. I'm saying, yeah, I don't get games with toppers. And then I do have a game coming on order that does have a topper. because I did see that topper at the Texas Pinball Festival earlier this year and sat in on the session that CGC held talking about the topper and its development. And that's what really sold me on getting it. You know, all the things it did and what they were looking to incorporate and that stuff. And I went, yeah, and I was already on order for the standard version of it and left the room and went to go talk to my distributor and said, you know, I think I really do want to get the topper version of that. So that was a good bit of salesmanship on CGC's part doing that session. So they hooked me on that one. Yeah, I saw that live in action at Expo. You know, it wasn't fully integrated yet, but it was kind of cool. And it wasn't $2,000. I think the reason I lost my noodle on you was just the $2,000 topper. So which brings me to the next life lesson with Tim Lee. Not only am I going off on the topper, I see that it was in a matter of weeks of each other that TNA, the new version of TNA is $9,000. I love TNA. Absolutely love it. And I'm like, Eric, and all these people are – they're ordering this TNA for $9,000, and I feel like it's like a $6,000 game. And I kid you not, you sent me like a picture of your receipt that you ordered a TNA, and I'm like, oh, no. I'm like, how about you cancel it and buy a Godzilla Premium? And you're like, no, no, no, no. I love TNA. So are you still in on a TNA?
    32:36
    Absolutely. I just got my email. It should be, if the stars align, when I start my drive back to Phoenix next week, I may be routing through Benton, Wisconsin to pick up my TNA at Spooky's Factory. So I just got that from Morgan Emery. She let me know, do you think the game's going to be ready next week? She says, where do you want it shipped? And I said, you don't even have to put it in the box. I'll be if it's if it's ready next week, I'll just come pick it up. So there's no way that I'm out on that. You know, the first time I played one of the we have so many great locations in the Phoenix area and one of them's Electric Bat Arcade. And the first time I've ever played TNA was there. And from the first time I saw that game, the, you know, the light show, the sound package, everything about it, you know, how it was a modern game, but had that street level kind of classic design. I fell in love with it and was trying to figure out how to get one for a while. And I just swore to myself, I was like, hey, if they ever rerun this. And I had heard rumors that that they were looking to rerun it. and I think I was on Fliptronics their Twitch stream and they had Scott Denise he was in chat and I was and he was going back and forth and I messaged him in chat and said hey is there are you going to be rerunning TNA and he said yeah it's happening he didn't have the date at the time and I was like oh 100% I'm in and so I had made that mental commitment just like the Mando Topper that if that game ever got reran, that I was going to get one. And so when they announced the rerun, I was so excited it was happening. I was like, yeah, absolutely. I want to do this. And when the price came out, it was definitely a bit of a wet blanket. I was not excited that it had jumped up to $9,000. But I also, part of my job developing this casino project is a lot of, you know, it's project management and job costing and sourcing and all this stuff. And I've been going through this process of buying materials and equipment and, you know, furnitures, fixtures, all that stuff, and have been seeing what's going on in the entire world across all manufacturing lines in price increases and things like that. I think really because I've been living this as an active exercise for the past two years, you know, I'm like everyone else. I'm not excited that it's also increasing prices in pinball. But I also think that because I'm seeing it in so many other areas that it's not as big of a sting for me or as big of a, you know, I understand that it's happening everywhere else too. And to assume that it wouldn't happen in pinball is sort of nonsensical, at least from my point of view. Well, that's a good take. Now, let's be honest. I'm kind of a hypocrite. Like you said, I have 12 machines in my house and I've gone through – I was just talking to Drew. It was either 40 or 45 in three years and do I need them? No. Do I need more than four or five? No. So it's kind of a kind of being a hypocrite. You know, I'm part of the problem as well. But it's it's good to pick on you. I get that. I'm an easy target for it. And I like it, too. I mean, listen, you know, I love I love the debate. I mean, for me, it's all about the it's, you know, kind of all about the chase and the fight in a very fun way. So I love it. And all my friends, we go back and forth and they'll give me a hard time. But it gives me no end of, you know, chuckles to myself because I'm a big consumer of all the pinball media and pinball podcasts and Twitch streams and things like that. And all of the freak out about price increases and things like that, which has been true the whole time. I mean, the prices have been going up in pinball since they've been making pinball machines and consumers have been complaining about it just as long as well.
    37:10
    So I always think it's funny because it's an irrational thing to spend money on. It's not an investment no matter how much people want to pretend like it is. It is not money in the bank. I've had so many pinball people tell me, especially last year, that it's money in the bank. And anybody that really is a little bit of common sense knows that the prices weren't going to stay that high. but you can't buy a machine and expect it to gain in value some you can you know Godzilla you could probably make some money right now but if you're buying a pinball machine as an investment I mean I guess it outpaced the stock market in the last year but no it's not money in the bank you're right there yeah I think there was a brief moment in time when the value of everything was spiking was being inflated up where pinball machines kind of looked like investments for a minute, but that never changed the fact that they're toys, especially if you're not an operator or you're not getting them into some kind of commercial use. If they're in your house, they're an expensive toy, and they're real expensive. So if you're going to deploy that kind of capital, you should deploy it in actual investments that that, you know, give you a dependable rate of return. So and I do that, you know, I have I have my my financial planning life and what I do there. And I view the money I spend on pinball. That's my entertainment money. You know, I I don't lead a very extravagant lifestyle outside of pinball. I don't really go out to eat. I don't, you know, I don't really drink. I don't go out to the bars or do things like that. But I do spend money on on on pinball and I have a great time doing it. So that's how I look at it. And, you know, I think when TNA came out, what was it like? Was it sixty five hundred dollars I think new Yep I think if you added on all the things that goes into the new CE edition that probably gets you closer to probably I think about $1,000 worth of various shaker motors, lights, like all that other stuff that goes in. So you take that, you add on inflation. I don't think $9,000 is a crazy leap for me to make mentally. You know, do I wish it was yet less? Obviously. But it wasn't enough for me to, you know, diminish the passion I had for that game and that the feeling of, you know, really wanting to get one and the excitement over being able to get one of these new runs. Yeah, at least it was a known entity. You had played it. You knew that you wanted it. All of this comes off the heels. And if you listen to Tribe Multi-Ball, I know you do, Eric. I kind of got a little upset with Toy Story because that was the one. It was the first movie that Amy and I ever saw together. We've since – even as adults, we've gone to the movies on the first day to see it together. We were so excited, and I've played Toy Story. My buddy Justin has a Toy Story. I was just over there. Lots of fun. But when that price tag came out at $12,000, and it didn't have what Willy Wonka has in it or even guns with the – the cool upper play field and the experience and the pirates, it was just like – it felt like a Stern Pro to me, a really fun Stern Pro. That's how it plays.
    41:00
    And I was just like – I started to get upset when the bomb is no longer there. It has less for more. I don't know if Stern did that on Bond. I don't like to make judgments until I play the game. I mean, I guess they ran out of space on the node boards for the mechs where they had to put the two pop bumpers together. I didn't go in on the premium. I backed out on two machines in a row, and I backed out on a topper, so three things in a row. At least the topper was more innovative than the previous topper. But that's kind of what got me riled up. Not necessarily the price increases. I didn't like the Bond price increase in the Toy Story. I just thought they were high, and I was just like, okay, enough is enough. And I backed off. The only thing I can do as a consumer is not buy and tell you that you're part of the problem. No, I think the Bond premium price jump, that one really – I lifted an eyebrow at that. I thought the pro price jump made sense, and I had no issue with that and didn't feel bad at all about ordering a pro for that. And the game, I think the pro looks great. But I really do agree with you on Toy Story. And I think Toy Story sort of was the jumping of the shark on pinball pricing in the sense that, you know, I went and saw that game. I went out to Coin Taker. They had one in their showroom. isn't too far from here and played it there. And I loved it. I thought it played great. It was a ton of fun.
    42:45
    I liked the toy story theme a lot, but the disconnect between, you know, the game that I saw and played and what the price is was way too big. Like that one, I couldn't get my mind around. And this is the guy that self-justified the Mando, Topper and TNACE, you know, I went, okay, yeah, I can see that. When I played Toy Story, I was like, you know, I love this game, and I'm going to really enjoy putting quarters into it and playing it on location, because there was no way at that price, you know, I could get two, essentially two Stern Pros for that, and I don't care. Even if it was, you know, jam-packed or whatever, you know, people really wanted to see that they didn't see in Toy Story.
    43:36
    You know, it just, there's no way it's worth two Stern Pros. And Stern Pros are fantastic. So, you know, I love the game. I love playing it. I'm excited every time I see Toy Story on location, it gets my quarters. But yeah, that price jump was nuts. And it was hard to really justify and wrap my mind around. Okay, I understand inflation. I understand manufactured goods and all of that, but that price jump just made zero sense to me. And I think it turned a lot of people off. And now you're seeing the fallout in the secondary market. And I don't know how JJP is going to move all those new units. No, the few people that I know that purchased one got them in a really good deal. All right. That's enough of the just I wouldn't say humiliating you. I just wanted to get you on the podcast and let you explain yourself to me because I don't understand it. But to be honest with you, your points were really good, and I didn't – I don't think I bashed you too hard, did I? No, not at all. I loved it. I mean it's – and I need that. My closest friends, which I definitely count you amongst, I need that kind of feedback because I'm definitely – You know, I have a pretty strong case of ADHD, which usually serves me pretty well in my personal and definitely professional life. But it can allow me to get a little bit too wrapped up into impulse purchases.
    45:15
    And lots of times I do need my friends to kind of rein me in and give me that alternative perspective. Doesn't mean I always follow it, but it does give me a moment of pause. There actually was a moment after I played Toy Story, not to jump back too far. I was driving home. Dev and I played Toy Story and we loved it. And I was texting with you and I said, you know what? I think I'm going to get one. I think this is a really fun game. And you talked me down to earth. If it wasn't for you, the life lessons with Tim Lee definitely saved me on a Toy Story purchase. So I do have to thank you. I have to thank you for that. And you were 100% right on Toy Story. Yeah, and that wasn't even this game sucks. I see this game dropping, and if you really want it, you're going to be able to pick it up for $9,000. I think that's what I said. You'll be able to pick it up for $9,000 in six months. I still plan on buying that game. So anyways, here's the deal. You and I, we both have our fun money. We've saved. If people are out there going into debt, you shouldn't be going into debt for pinball machines, but you and I, I have my fun money. I fixed up a bunch of machines. I flipped them. I sold a 30-year-old train collection to buy my machines. Neither of us are really crazy, but I am kind of a hypocrite because I do kind of the same things, right? But I wanted to pick on you. But let's get to some fun stuff. Oh, yeah. I heard that you went to a fairly decent-sized pinball tournament recently. I did. I just got back last week from the Sanctum 24-hour final battle tournament in Connecticut. Okay.
    46:56
    100. Talk about being a minnow amongst sharks. You didn't win? Not only did I not win, there was a good chunk of the tournament where I was thinking to myself, Eric, you may come in last. You may come in dead last. You may have driven all the way to central Connecticut to come in dead and played pinball for 24 hours straight to come in dead last. And I'll tell you what, though, if that would have happened, I would have been just fine. I had so much fun. I had such a good time meeting players that were their local meeting players that had traveled for it.
    47:38
    You know, some of the, you know, like Titans of the competitive pinball world were there. Bone Cairns was there. He won the whole thing. Tim Sexton was there. I got to talk with him. Trent Augustine. I mean, there was just, you know, all of these names I'm forgetting. You know, there's a lot of people I'm sure that I'm forgetting that I talked to and, and forgetting their name or forgetting dimension. But I had such a great time. I got to meet Jen Rupert. Yep. Who has, you know, great social media stuff. And we spent a good chunk of the tournament in the lower brackets playing together. And I wouldn't, you know, if I had to choose between the people I played with and the amount of fun I had or doing better in that tournament, I would not have changed. I would not have swapped doing better in that tournament if it meant that I played with a different group of people or wasn't able to have as much fun. I really had a blast. And I placed, I think, 95th out of 100. You didn't lose. I didn't lose. But I had so much fun and was exhausted and energized at the same time and would do it again in a heartbeat. They had an amazing collection there. I knew I was in trouble when I walked in because almost all their games, and every game was in phenomenal shape. The space was in this really cool building that I think used to be a ball bearing factory, actually. Wow. And the games were all phenomenal, but they were almost all, you know, what we call classics. They were all like pre 1990. A lot of older, you know, mostly solid states, but they had EMS and they had a few new games. But for the most part, they are all older games. And I knew I was in trouble when I walked in and saw a sea of classic games because that is my weakest point. I'm pretty good on the new sterns. All my games are newer games. And that's primarily what I play. And so when I saw that, I was like, oh, this is going to be interesting. So I was at sort of a double disadvantage. A, I'm not the world's greatest player anyway. I have won some tournaments. I was going to say, you're pretty good. I've played with you. You're a decent player. Thank you. Coming from you, that's high praise. I definitely accept that and appreciate it. But I know what I am and I know what I'm not. And when I'm on and I'm sort of in the flow, I can do well and I can win a tournament or two. But in that group, like I said, I was really a minnow amongst sharks. And they did their shark thing and they devoured me. But I was happy to contribute to their point balances. and the big one. Seeing Bo and Karen's play is just phenomenal. There was the tiebreaker to end the tournament. You know, everyone had been up for, you know, playing for 24 hours, been up for much longer than that. And every single person was in that room watching those final games happening like we were watching, you know, the Super Bowl, the final play, and we all had money on the line. It was super exciting to see. And everyone there that puts on the tournament did such a phenomenal job. It was incredibly professional. They provided, you know, food and they had drinks. You know, there's so much that could go wrong with an event like that. And they all did such an amazing job. I really can't say enough good things about it. Yeah, I wish I could have gone. Don't sell yourself short. You know, there are some top thousand players there. We've played, you know, you and your son are both pretty good. you're humble you're not confident like me i might be the most confident pinball player in the world in like the state college tournaments i'm like eric do you have a smoke machine for when i walk in and maybe you could play uh maybe you could play like welcome to the jungle when i walk up to a machine and then i get i get like the beat down from joe shaw and that walleer you know and when i have a really good game i think that you know i could play with the best of them but i'm very confident only to lose a lot but yeah you're a good player i've seen that i've said this many times, Tim Lee. And I've heard you and Drew go back and forth about the Tim Lee sucks at pinball. I have to say, Tim Lee does not suck at pinball. Tim Lee is a really good player. And I've seen him play against some of the best players and hold his own and do very well. That AK tournament, the tournaments we had in state college, there weren't a lot of people, but there were some heavy hitters there joe shaw uh wally's an amazing player and and you won many i think you won most of the tournaments you went to in state college so just i need to get that out there not suck at pinball well i would tell you this rachel and i talked about this so wally is not an ifpa player and he's every bit as good as um i went down and i played against dj i think dj's in the top 20 i forget his last name, Dave. And he was at AK's tournament and Wally's every bit as good as him. And it's interesting because he doesn't play in tournaments besides this state college tournament. But no, we had a lot of fun, but let's get back to the sanctum. So I saw a selfie of you and Jen Rupert and I'm like, hey, that's my buddy, Eric. And I'm like, tell him he should have came to my house because I've been inviting you and practice on Guns and Roses because I heard you didn't do so hot on GNR.
    53:12
    GNR has been the bane of my competitive pinball existence. And, you know, I think it's a beautiful game. I like Guns N' Roses music, but I have an irrational hatred for that game.
    53:30
    Because every time I play it in a tournament, I get absolutely demolished. And it's this vicious cycle. Because I don't do well on it, I don't play it outside of tournaments, which means that I never get any better at it. And I was getting ready to sweep my group in the Sanctum tournament for the first time in the night.
    53:53
    And what happens third game? It's GNR. I get close but don't make it happen and just am completely defeated. And it just is continuing to fuel my my GNR feelings, negative feelings. And so, yeah, and I blame that all on you, Tim Lee, really. I think that you should have you should have trained me better. You should have got me to your place because I can't I'm not strong enough to take the blame myself. But that's that's 100 percent true. That's that's all your fault. That's lying. I could have been in the, you know, top, you know, third of players had I had a better GNR finish at the Sanctum. So that's on you. I would tell you the same thing I tell Amanda Hamilton.
    54:37
    $500 for my eight-week program. I will have you playing like Keith Elwin at the end of this program. You will be a phenomenal pinball player. That's a full statement. Yep, $500. Friends discount, $475. So let's negotiate here. Is there a money-back guarantee? So if I pay this $500, am I getting a guarantee that all future tournament excursions on GNR, I will come away victorious? No, no money back guarantees. Just confidence. You'll be a super confident GNR player. You might lose, but you'll be very confident. I'm going to be honest. I don't think that game – that doesn't feel like a tournament game. I haven't played in a while. It's actually in our family room. Don't tell my wife you don't like the game because you'll never be invited because it's in our family room with the GNR banner because she loves guns so much. And I don't play it because it's in my family room because it's loud. It's like in the middle of our space. So I only play it once in a while when nobody's here. But I will give a caveat to my negative GNR comments. I'm speaking solely in a tournament situation. I think the game would be super fun in a home environment or if I could ever bring myself to play it on location and break through my resistance towards it. It does look like a great game. And I bet in a home environment, it is awesome. But, you know, a lot of places, a lot of locations in the tournaments I go to that have a GNR do not include it in tournaments, even if they have it on the floor, because it behaves differently. I think it's really geared more for a home environment, which is fine. So we were all kind of surprised that it was there, too. But in a way, that also makes sense. Like, it's good to shake it up and have different types of games. And so I think when I was sort of questioning the choice initially, I went, yeah, they know what they're doing. I mean, like putting it in there and the way they set the game up, they turn the ball saves way down. And they definitely configured it so that it made sense in the tournament, which it did.
    56:48
    But yeah, I need to get to your place and I need to get some plays on it. That's on me. I tell my wife this. I will be your Mr. Miyagi.
    56:58
    You'll be crane kicking somebody in a tournament real fast. So I probably would lose in guns because it's the only game I've never bothered to learn anything other than starting a song just because I like the experience. But back to the tournament, I wanted to ask you, is it the same type of tournament all night or do they change styles of tournaments? Is it like a bunch of mini tournaments or one big tournament? No, it's one big tournament. So the format is it's a four-player match play, but you play on a bank of three games that get assigned every round. so uh and the format's actually i think pretty genius in the sense that uh so you play three games and and each game in the three game bank that's assigned represents sort of a different era for the most part like you'll play one game that's that's pretty old and you'll play one game that's new or and then you'll play one game that's kind of in the middle and so it really which is, I think, a good way to do it in the sense that it's a good tested skill. So it's, you know, if someone like me is better at newer games, you know, I can't just come in and dominate there by the luck of the draw. I also have to prove myself on an older EM and sort of a mid-range classic game at the same time. And what that format did also that was pretty nice, it allowed, you know, And it was also Swiss pairing, too. So all of the really good players as the night went on, they all were playing each other. And everyone else, like myself, we were all playing, you know, with each other, too. So those really good groups, they would, you know, their games go on forever. You know, you got, you know, Tim Sexton and Bowen and Trinogasi, you know, they're playing a game. And each one of their balls will last as long as an entire game down at my end of the spectrum So it did allow for us to have more breaks Okay But if you were a top player you were really playing or waiting to play for 24 hours straight, pretty much. There was only a couple breaks that were, I think, like two half-hour breaks for a meal period were put in there for the benefit of those top-tier guys. Okay. But, yeah, it was a really cool format. When it was over, did you stay there for the night? Did you drive home, then crash?
    59:35
    Well, I brought my Razor Crest, my camper van, and I was still pretty fired up from the end of the tournament. So I got on the road. I got about an hour down the road, and then I hit a brick wall. And so I mean, not literally, I from an exhaustion standpoint, hit a brick wall and pulled into a rest area and climbed in the back of the van into the bed there. And I racked out for about a couple hours and then felt better and then drove. It was about a five and a half hour drive for me. So I broke it up a little bit in the middle there and felt pretty good. OK, would you do it again? Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's great. I think you and I need to go next year. So when they go on sale, I usually I think the tickets there's a lottery system is how they do it. So you have to you put your name in the hat. And then I think sometime in the summer they draw names and then you have 24 hours to pay for the spot. I think it's 100 bucks or something like that.
    60:40
    And so definitely you and I both need to make sure we have our names in the hat for next year. you have to remind me i know the rochester pinball collective has been hinting that they're going to have one in the spring you know maybe we could do that one as well because i really liked bruce's place up there so yeah i think there's a few locations that do it i think uh i think the delaware pinball collective i think they may do a marathon event like that and then i've heard rochester i don't know if they have done it or they're planning on doing it but uh yeah we need to keep our eyes out for one of those because I had a blast. I was a little hesitant to do it, but I would definitely do one of those again. And it was really playing the games was fun and playing games I'd never seen before is always a good time. But I had so much fun meeting people and talking to other, you know, other pinheads. And for me, that was I didn't really care that I did poorly because I went to meet people and have a good time. And I did. And so I have no regrets and would do it again in a heartbeat. I did come away with it for a little bit of a cold. You know, it's like a version of what people call like con crud from conventions. Sure. Yeah, I think I did get sick. And definitely, I think being tired was a big part of it and, you know, slamming all the caffeine and all that stuff. Yeah. But I'm fully recovered now just a few days out. Yeah, and touching all those flipper buttons with all the germs, right? I try not to think about it. Yeah. I have one last topic before we wrap this up. So we talked about, you know, kind of, you know, where you play. We talked about your poor life decisions when it comes to pinball. We talked about the sanctum. But one thing you and I, I've never really talked to you about this. And I know that, you know, you're CEO of a casino that's opening up here in Pennsylvania. And you kind of hinted one time that there's some correlation between maybe slot machine themes and pinball themes perhaps. I forget what you actually said. But is there any kind of correlation between the casino business and the pinball business, especially when it comes to themes? I don't go to a lot. I do go to casino from time to time, but I guess they have themes, right? Yeah, there's actually a large overlap between pinball and slot machines, but not in the sense that they're gambling. They definitely are not. But if you trace back even the lineage of pinball machines and slot machines, it forms a nexus. I mean, they have a common ancestor and then sort of branched off and slot machines went one direction and pinball machines went another. And you see a lot of game developers and executives kind of move back and forth between slot machines and pinball. You know, Joe Kamenko, who's pretty famous in the pinball world, is way more famous in the slot machine world as an executive and definitely bringing exciting themes and stuff like that. So everything that he's known for in the pinball world with, you know, the Kapow titles and things like that. He does the same thing for slot machines, I would say, in even a bigger in a bigger way. And so I knew him for I knew of him for years and years from the slot machine world. And then when I got into pinball, I heard the name and I was like, yeah, hey, I know. Sure. Yeah, I is. So, yeah, it's very similar. So there's, you know, in slot machines, you have license themes. You know, pinball machines are almost all license, not all, but a lot. I would say the vast majority are. And in slot machines, it's not, I would say, in terms of size, I would say most of them are unlicensed in terms of like total units produced. But a large majority, especially the big flashy ones, are all licensed. And it's TV shows and movies and a lot of the same licenses that you see on pinball machines are also in slot machines. So Star Trek, Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, a lot of these big titles also have slot machines associated with them. Star Wars, you can almost – it's pretty rare actually that there's a pinball machine and a slot machine that don't share a theme. I would say it's more the exception than the rule really. Okay. Do they have like a comic art version of the slot machine or it's probably just kind of like the clip art, right? Do the artists go crazy on these slot machines or is it, you know? Yeah. Yeah, sometimes. I mean, it's, you know, they're, you know, a new slot machine, if a casino is buying one, it could cost $20,000, $25,000 and up. So, you know, I think we got it bad in pinball. You know, we're paying a lot more on the casino side of things. For a machine that's really got a whole lot less in it, it's really just a couple monitors and a metal box. But, yeah, the art packages, that's a big thing. I think on slot machines, like the video assets, that's much more of it. The actual cabinet art and things is pretty plain. Usually it's just a black box, but it does all of its marketing work on the screens, or we call it, you know, on the top glass. Even a lot of the terms on pinball and slot machines kind of carry over and mean the same things. But, yeah, and actually getting into pinball. And I came up on the slots side of the business in the casino industry. And so it has really actually helped me understand slot machines in a better way, getting more into pinball because how we do bonus rounds and multipliers and things like that in slot machines is very similar to how we do it in pinball. It's just in pinball, it's really based on your skill and your choice of which way you want to go, where in a slot machine, it's all pretty much random chance. Yeah. Yeah, so you kind of mentioned this. So there's theme integration in the modern slot machines? Are you talking movie clips or just surrounding the main content area? there might be something that looks familiar to me from Walking Dead. No, I mean, they'll definitely have large signage packages and things that incorporate the theme's art. But integrated into the game, you'll have a huge amount of assets. Just like in Pinball, you'll have some of the voice or the actors from the show will do call-outs for the game, just like we have in Pinball. There'll be movie clips that trigger based on, you know, different bonus rounds or certain things happening in the slot machine. You'll get those video assets will play. And sometimes it's from the show. And sometimes just like in pinball, you'll have the art team from the slot machine manufacturer will actually recreate things that are very much like it, but needs to serve a specific purpose. So the parallels are actually very, very strong between the two. Well, if you get a Transformers 1984 slot machine, I will be your number one customer. I will be up there just every single day. Hey, I'm playing again. So the big question is, does theme matter in slot machines? Is your Walking Dead going to get more people to play because it's the Walking Dead versus, I don't know, some other theme? Do you notice that people gravitate towards the cooler themes like they do in pinball? Yeah, theme absolutely matters. And we really, you know, as far as units on a casino floor, if you take Las Vegas, for example, Las Vegas casinos may have about 15, depending on the location, maybe up to 20% of their slot floor are, you know, we call premium games. So they have these movie or TV show themes attached to them. And the job of those machines are to get people off the pathways. So just like in pinball, it serves the exact same purpose. You want to get the casuals that are walking through something that they can identify with. You know, maybe they never played a slot machine before. And you can say this for pinball. Maybe someone's never played pinball before, but they love Star Wars. And this is what hooked me in. You know, I saw that Star Wars game and went, I really want to know what that game's about because I love the Star Wars franchise so much. and so that's what helped convert me into a player. I wish I'd known at the time that I was jumping on sort of a brutal game for my first outing. Maybe I could have made it easier on myself.
    69:53
    But, yeah, so it serves the exact same role. And the reason why Stern makes only licensed themes, I think, is exactly for that same reason, is that it can attract people that are, you know, haven't been players before and for location play. And it's also a big thing for us homebuyers, right? You know, like you and I, I bought the premiums of a game over a pro because I had some sort of tie to the theme. So I think theme is hugely important. You know, I listen to all the podcasts. You know, I think in a pretty recent one, Zach Minney was talking about it on his show. And he's absolutely right. It's something that we know in the casino business for years and years and years that themes really sell the game and has a huge impact on the stickiness of those games. Yeah, that's pretty cool. You had said Star Wars was your first game. So mine was – I've told the story before, Data East Star Wars. They had one in our beach house and I never went to the beach. I went twice for two hours and then spent seven days playing Data East Star Wars. But it actually happened to be just a couple of weeks before Pinberg. So I went to replay FX and I mapped out all the machines that I wanted to play. You can go back to Rachel and I's show where I got caught sneaking onto the tournament floor multiple times and might have gotten tossed out. Go back, try Multiball, listen to that story and my origin story. But the first game that I played outside of the beach house, I made a point to play it because it's my favorite movie ever is I went immediately to Back to the Future. Oh, no. My son and I like in there and played Back to the Future. And I'm like, uh, this game sucks, Josh. And Josh is like, yeah, this game really does suck. It's like terrible. But there was an Indiana Jones beside it. We played Indiana Jones and we were back and we went and played Jurassic Park and all that stuff. And I thought Keith Ellum was there beside me. I thought he was an employee of Cointaker. I was asking him all these questions. Totally new to pinball. But that was my that was my first like theme does matter. I ran right to it and I was like, oh, yeah. So, yeah, that's kind of cool that I didn't know that there were that many parallels. And you brought it up just recently in a conversation we had. And I I figured that's a great topic for the podcast. Yeah, it's it's interesting, you know, coming from the casino business. You know, I look a lot at what's going on, especially with things like Insider Connected and Scorbit. You know, we've been in the casino business working on network floors and leveraging game data and things like that for decades and decades. And so I get and that's a big part of sort of how I approach my business is I'm very much very analytically focused and I rely on those systems to do all that stuff. And as I see pinball do that, I'm really excited for what these technologies will mean for operators. I know when the announcements first came out, I came this close to sending all these ideas that I had sketched out and outlines that I wanted to George Gomez over at Stern and go, hey, you know, I really know how to how to turn this on and hit the afterburners. You should you should you should give me a job or just I don't even need to get paid. I just I'm so excited about what you're doing that I'd love to participate in some way. But I think I think they've got it. I got to figure it out over there. But I think that's one of the most exciting things to come. And we're starting to see it trickle out, right? Like even the, you know, to bring it back to the Mando topper and that integration of, you know, there's elements of what you're doing on Insider Connected and tracking your progress and things. And that's going to show up on the screen. I think it's a really exciting time for where pinball is going. Yeah. Well, we do have some Stern employees that have listened to Try Multiball. So if anybody's listening and you have kind of a board where you just want to review some ideas, we got Eric here, CEO of a casino. He's been in it for 30 years. Smart guy unless he's buying pinball machines, and he's kind of like the rest of us. We all make poor decisions. So give him a shout. Very knowledgeable.
    74:30
    So I think I'm good. I appreciate you coming on the show. You know this. I try to be really nice to people I kind of live my life trying to be respectful to people Unless you're a really good friend of mine And then I spend a lot of time telling you all how you're wrong I just told Drew how he was wrong yesterday Glenn and I talked earlier today Telling each other how we reach wrong It's all in good fun Rachel and I like to jab back and forth But it's all in good fun So I think you're one of my best friends I'm glad you thought I was Keith Elwin Sorry I wasn't Keith Owen, but I'm glad we got to become friends. I really appreciate you coming on the show. It's been a good time. You and I will continue to make stupid decisions together as pinball pals. But go ahead and just throw out there a few places you play pinball. Give them some love and promote whatever you want to promote. I know you've got a lot of places out there in Arizona you like to play. Oh, yeah. I love playing on location, you know, even though I've got a pretty good collection going, and it's growing by the day, it seems. I love playing on location. You have Danger Zone Arcade, which is inside of Uncle Bear's Brewery in Gilbert, Arizona, is one of my favorite places to play. Jordan is the guy that runs it. He has an amazing collection of almost all LEs. And if it's not an LE, it's a premium, which is fantastic. You know, you don't see a lot of those out in the wild. Electric Bat Arcade in Tempe is phenomenal. Star Fighters Arcade in Mesa, Arizona, they do big monthly tournaments. And they have, I think it's close to 60 games. And they do a big year-end tournament out there. And that whole scene out in central Arizona in that Phoenix area. And there's some great locations in Tucson, too. But, yeah, Electric Bat, Starfighters, and Danger Zone, those are really my top three. And Level 1 in Gilbert is also a fantastic location, and they have great tournaments there. You know, you can really play almost every night of the week. There's a tournament going on in that market. And my goal is here in Central PA, Tim, you and I, we're going to get something going at some point and do our little bit of that out here. I am very motivated and ready to go. Once you get that casino project underway, we'll do something here. I'll go ahead and say I love Helicon Brewery. If you're in the Pittsburgh area, stop at Helicon. Podcast, go out and listen to Tribe Multiball with Tim and Rachel. Listen to the new Ray Ray Show with Rachel and Raymond Davidson. It's fantastic.
    77:21
    Listen to the Pinball Nerds podcast on the Poor Man's Pinball Network. and if you're really down in the dumps and you have nothing else to do listen to drew show on the poor man's pinball podcasts love you drew so now he listened to his show is his have gotten better little rumor is ian might be coming back maybe for at least a show or two so go ahead and give drew a listen and that's all i got eric well thank you that's exciting thank you so much for giving me some learning. All right. And your life lessons, Tim Lee. And I appreciate you. Yeah. I'll be your mystery Miyagi. All right, everyone. Thank you. And Drew sucks at pinball.
    78:07
    Try to be fast. Cause you're only a man and a man's got to learn to take it. Try to believe though the going gets rough that you've got a hand tough to make it. History repeats itself Try and you succeed There's a doubt that you're the one And you can have your dream You're the best around Nothing's gonna ever keep you down You're the best around Nothing's gonna ever keep you down You're the best around Nothing's gonna ever keep you down