Well, I loved like – again, it's not a mean-spirited thing. It's kind of a satire of that entitled – Explain it for everyone in case they don't know. So the podcast Dude Where My Code It on Patreon right Yeah it on Patreon I get a lot of flack for it It only a month It It only a month but whatever it is I feel that for me as a content creator it was important I have the kind of intro that's free. It's like, hey, if you think that this is something you'd be interested in, take a listen to these little sample interviews that I did. And if so, give it a shot for $2. You put that on YouTube, and I thought that was really smart. I think the little snippets that you took from those great interviews were excellent. Well done there. How many episodes have you done so far? We just had our ninth one. Phil Grimaldi, our good friend Phil Grimaldi from Verils of Fun was our most recent one for March. I do a new podcast every month. Okay, good. He's the godfather of Houston Pinball. Without him and the Drone A's and a lot of other people, Houston Pinball doesn't exist. Yeah, I mean he's a fantastic ambassador for pinball. And again, I've met so many incredibly brilliant, passionate people. I only met Phil a couple of times at some tournaments like Pinnberg and a couple of Pinnbergs and a couple of things here like Papa. And I spoke to him very briefly, but like it was so amazing to get to know people like Phil. They have a psychology like Phil has like a doctorate in like cognitive psychology. And I'm just like, that's amazing. How do you take – we talk about this in the interview. How do you take your knowledge of cognitive psychology and learning, the psychology of learning, how do you take that and apply that to pinball rules, using nonverbal cues, sort of like any kind of mnemonic devices to help people remember certain rule sets and stuff like that? And he has so much that he puts into that. That's his background that he puts into it. It's incredible. The guys are like all these people are so incredibly smart. And I'm just it's really a pleasure. Honestly, it is two dollars a month, but I would I honestly would kind of do this for free because it's such a great journey. No, I think it's smart by starting out on Patreon. I think it's harder for people when they jump back and forth from Patreon. Maybe. I want to give these people exposure, right? Because again, the whole point is that these people are doing the code and people only really complain when they haven't done their job or they don't think that they've done their job the way they wanted to, right? But when they do their job, and they usually do at the end of the day when the code is finally finished, it's amazing. There's so many rare instances. I can't even think of an instance where a game has been finished, it's done, done, and it's still a stinker. I can't even think of a game off the top of my head of a modern game where the code is not going to be changed anymore. Well, maybe, but they're just outliers, right? Eventually, you kind of have to have faith that, yeah, people really care. These people working on the games behind the scenes, they're going to finish the game. They're going to do their job because they love it, and they're not just punching in. They're doing something in pinball because they want to do it in pinball and they love it and they take it very seriously. They really do and I take it seriously. And so that's the whole point is to give these people a platform. I wish people would literally – not even for like the subscribers or viewers. It's literally just for the exposure for these people to get their names out there because we all know the Steve Ritchie's, the Pat Lawler's, the Jack Danger's, the Mark Sidon's of the world. We all know these names. They're the designers of the playfields. They're like the directors of the really kind of big faces to each of these games. But the people working behind the scenes, the people doing all the stuff behind the scenes and working literally relentlessly, like morning, noon, and night. Those people are really working hard. And you could make the argument very easily that in modern pinball, given the sort of standardized kind of games that we have now, So it's kind of like, you know, like not there's not J.J.P. is not doing wide bodies anymore. It's all kind of a standard size that everything is kind of generally coalescing around. Like you're dealing with a very finite real estate area and there's only so much that you can do mechanically shots that you can change everything up without it being somewhat saney and repetitive a little bit. Like like there's still ingenious stuff that people are still doing, but there's only a certain amount you can do with a game physically. But there's so much more like an incredible, especially with the technology now with LCD screens and lighting and sound and video and all the different things that you can do under the hood, so to speak, or under the play field. The technology that that's part of the experience of not just shooting shots for the sake of shooting shots, but making the meaningful, emotional, narrative driven based moments and the anticipation. I was talking to Elizabeth Gieske from Stern Pinball. That was an excellent one. She worked on just recently Dungeons & Dragons and, of course, Jaws was her first game that she worked on. She talks about, you know, it's not just the big blow-up moments. It's the anticipation. It's the moment. It's the build-up that she wants to focus on to get there, the frustration. Oh, okay, I got to make that shot. Oh, jeez, I missed it. Oh, jeez. Okay, okay, I got to make that shot. Okay, I got to make it twice now. Okay, I got to make it now. I got to make it fast. And all that anticipation to get to the big payoff is the real art that these people are working and crafting. It's just like a story. I'm a movie guy. So you can't just have explosions. I was talking to Josh Sharp. You can't just have Michael Bay-based explosions, constantly fireworks, because then that gets really boring. It means nothing. But the anticipation and being able to build up to it and really feel like you've earned that, now that's what we're talking about. That's a real pinball moment, and that's what these people are all about making, and you can really craft that now as a programmer. You can make a story out of a pinball game. Again, to bring a parallel, again, you get me talking about pinball. I'm never going to stop. No, man. Movies and pinball have such an amazing parallel. Originally, movies were just seen as like an idle entertainment. You would put your nickel in the Nickelodeon, and you'd watch a lady in her swimsuit for like 20 seconds or something. You'd get some titillating film content, and then you'd move on. It was like a circus freak show or something, like an attraction, a sideshow attraction. And that was what film started out. It was just kind of a curiosity. But then people were like, oh, wow, I can actually tell a story with this technology. I can actually get other things like sound and color and things that make it more engaging for the audience. And I can actually tell something that has a real art form and a real human experience. And I think pinball is kind of hitting this level where film and video games as well because video games were just like arcade experiences. They were just something you went – you played it for like Donkey Kong for like two minutes and then you moved on, right? You ate all the quarters and you moved on and you didn't think about it anymore. But now you've got games like Legend of Zelda or Final Fantasy. You've got epic, epic storylines now where you're engaged for multiple – like tens of hours of gaming time. And you're engaged. You care about these characters. You care about what happens to them. You want to see a sequel. You want to come back to it again and again and again. And I think pinball is kind of getting that way because of the home market, because of the demands of a home market environment. People are putting these games in their home. They don't want to just play them for like a month or two and then get rid of them because like, you know, bringing a pinball machine to your home is quite an ordeal anywhere. Rar, Hally Good Pinball is an investment in a lot of ways for different things, physically and money. And you want to have something that represents you, that connects to you emotionally, intellectually, like just on many different levels. You don't want just like an idle kind of piece of entertainment that you just, you know, consume and then throw away. So I think pinball is kind of hitting this kind of threshold right now. And you talk about games like Dungeons and Dragons. Wow. Like you're carrying over player progress. I talked to Dwight Sullivan, again, not to push the pinball podcast, but that's what blows my mind. We didn't get specifically into D&D at the time because he was just literally on the cusp of revealing it. But he was talking about technically his Game 7 for Stern. And he was talking about how he's put so much time and effort, and it doubles the amount of code of the previous games that he did only four or five years ago. It's unbelievable. And the amount of work that's going into it, and again, not to take anything away from Brian Eddy and the amazing dragon and all the fun mechanical stuff like the gelatinous cube and Rath, the relentless, the head, the dragon, it's amazing. Like nobody's ever done anything that complicated before. Like it's wild. But the code is really what's going to get you to come back and get that second and third and fourth and fifth and sixth quarterback in there or on my account. I'm a Canadian, so loonies and toonies. So, you know, that's what's going to keep the player engaged and being like, yeah, this is a game that I want for my home. This is a game that I want to keep playing on location. This is a game that I want to just I want to keep playing, you know, and that's the code. It's not necessarily just the shots and getting the score. People want to people want to like it's like, again, in video games, it was like back in the day in arcade games. People like, well, what are your score in Donkey Kong? What's your score in Pac-Man? Right. That's all that mattered. Right now. Yeah. Who cares about your score in like Zelda or Final Fantasy? This doesn't even exist. It's about what you've experienced in the game or like the Indiana Jones game that just came out. I'm a huge Indiana Jones fan. It looks amazing. I'm all in the Call of Duty right now. Oh, Call of Duty, sure. Right, yeah. And it's just like you're being engaged. I'm playing the new Call of Duty. Nice. I'm upping my character. I've already prestiged a whole bunch of guns. And it's a personal thing. It's a personal thing. Yeah, like we did all the ARs with my son when he was here for Christmas. Awesome. Great time over the Christmas holidays. Man, I had a ball. I said to Orby, I said, I want King Kong to climb up the Empire State Building, have planes running around him. Physically in the game. You don't want just like an LCD screen of it. No, no, no. I want it physically in the game. A physical skyscraper. I want Kong coming up it. Yeah, okay. Okay? That's my take. Is that possible? Are they going to do this? I mean, look, I'm all about – Or is it going to be plastic? No, I mean, we'll see. I mean, again, like, it is tough bringing, like, that level of mechanical. I'm just thinking, like, having a vertical thing. There's all, like, you know, you had the, like, the building in Godzilla, which, you know, raises and lowers that. That's, I mean, something that's relatively, like, about a foot and a half, almost a foot and a half. Just Kong climbing the Empire shape building. Sure, I'm all about it. I think that's what we need. I'm all about it. But, like, I mean, and, you know, you talk about other games, like, what is it, Wipeout? Like the old, like the Gottlieb game, like with like, it has like a whole ski hill and the ball goes up the ski hill and it comes down. And like, you know, it's possible. It just depends on like, but like, you know, from a mechanical thing like that, you always have to balance it out. And Keith is always about the shots, right? Like, I'm not sure if he's super, super keen on, you know, what I like to call Tima, which is a thing that I try desperately to make it a term, but almost nobody, except for Multimorphic, they use that term in their recent promo. I got a shout out to my friend Steven Silver who put that in the promo for Princess Bride Pinball. They actually used the word thematically integrated mechanical action, which to me is not the – it may not be the most important thing for most people, but for me it's what makes pinball unique. It's that, like you're saying, I want something to happen physically in the game that relates to the theme. It has to be thematically integrated mechanical action. It can't be just like mechanical action for the sake of it. Maybe this will catch on. I don't think so. No, it's never going to. I've already tried. I've already tried so hard. Get Steven Bowden to put it in the dictionary. I try. He doesn't want anything to do with it. But I love him. He's a great guy. But there's no way that's going in the new pinball dictionary anytime soon, anyhow. But my point is, yeah, that's what I think people crave. It's not just like shots because, yeah, there's other games where you make a shot and you get points. Like, you know, pool is like a different kind of – like it's an ancestor. Like, pool, you make shots and you make the shots and you do it good and you put the ball where it needs to go. And that's the thing. And you're using kind of an analog as the stick is your hand as opposed to flippers. Right. It's a less mechanical thing. But it's basically they have the same ancestor. Right. They like bag of towels and pool. Right. Is where they kind of split off. But, you know, I think that people really still crave that magical. Like when you think of games like Adam's Family, you think of the hand, the thing hand that comes in, picks up a wall. That's an exciting moment. It's not a big part of the game. The castle in Attack from Mars. The first thing you think about is the – exactly. It's the castle. It's so brilliant, by the way, how that works. All the things – it's like a string that pulls it, and when it lets go of the tension, it goes down, and then when it pulls the tension down, it goes up. It straightens up. It's such a brilliant design. We'll move on to another game. Multimorphic is supposedly releasing their newest module for the P3 platform, Portal. Yeah, I heard that too. That we're hearing, right? What are your thoughts on that title? Did you play the video game? Oh, yeah. I love Portal, and I've played parts of Portal, too. I haven't gotten through the whole thing. I had to kind of stop halfway through, and I never picked it back up. It's like a puzzle game, right? My kids played it. The best thing about Portal is that it literally takes the concept of learning. Again, going back to the psychology of learning, it takes the concept of learning in any video game, like whether you're playing like Zelda, Metroid, Mario Brothers, Call of Duty, whatever, right? When you're playing a single-player game, the game goes, hey, this is what you can do. You can look up, look down, left, and right. It's kind of like a play tutorial. And then in Portal, there's levels that are based on that same concept. It's like, oh, this is how you walk through a portal. You go through here, and then you end up here. And then it's like, oh, but by the way, also, if you shoot a portal above you, you can land, and then you can jump, and you can carry that momentum forward. And then you can do this thing now. And then the next level is like, oh, but you can add this now. So do all those steps plus one thing. And then the next level is like, do all those steps again plus this new thing, and then this new thing. And you're constantly learning a new technique or a new skill. And that's the beauty. And that's how video games work. That's a lot of games. That's how they work. It's like, oh, I have this new item. I have this new shield or sword or gun or whatever you want to call it. And now I can do this. And now I can do everything else in my arsenal, in my toolbox, and then this. And now I've got to learn and master this new thing. And now I've got this new thing. And that's the whole idea of like, again, that goes back into pinball where it's like, you know, games, a lot of games that Dwight's done with like Mandalorian. It's like, oh, I played this long and now I can use the flamethrower and now I can use this item and now I can use this and now I get an extra ball. Wow. OK, cool. So you're taking it from like a very little seed of like a game and then it just kind of like exponentially blossoms. And that's, I think, a lot of the keys in any game, in any game you play, it starts always very small board games, video games, pinball games. It starts from like a little kernel and then it just kind of like you just run of it is watching it kind of like evolve and all the different things you can do. And experiencing that is so much fun. I think that's like the real essence of what a game is, you know, learning. It's interesting with Multimorphic because they do such a good job incorporating video games with pinball. Yeah, I mean, the small screen is an interactive ball screen. It'll be interesting to see what they do with that. They have some of the best Tima out there as well. It's not just about the screen. It's about the mechanical things that they put in the game as well for all the modules. You're popping that Tima. I am, I am. It's all right. But a mechanical – you call it toys. You want to call it toys. You want to call it necks or whatever. It's all part of that, you know, the cliche, the world under glass, right? It's what makes it a unique experience as opposed to just a bunch of ramps and loops and targets, right? We've seen that many times, and it's not an engaging, emotional, narrative-based experience usually. And that's just part of the evolution of the game, right? Back in the day, you'd play a game from the 60s and 70s. You'd hit a bunch of targets, and then you'd walk away, and that's it. I got the high score and then you walk away. But now it's like, man, I really want to get to that new character. I want to unlock the bard in Dungeons & Dragons. I want to unlock these characters or these different functions and modes and stuff. And you're really invested. That's a really, really smart way to make the games modern and fresh. Playing again and again and again and one more quarter. That's what it's all about. One more dollar. Originally, that's what pinball was. It was just a passive income-gaining machine, like a claw game almost. You'd put it there. You'd fix it up. You'd reload it with – fix it up, and just people would get – you'd make passive income off that. You'd check it every couple days and collect the coin box and whatever. But it's amazing. Like there still is that, like, again, that one more game feel to it that you kind of have to still have even for the home market. I like the P3. I love it. I love it too. We have one, and it's getting a flipper rebuild, and we're going to bring it back. And I love playing Dungeon Door. That was one of my favorite game.