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Episode 68 – Joe Kaminkow on The Beatles Pinball

Head2Head Pinball·podcast_episode·1h 46m·analyzed·Nov 5, 2018
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Joe Kaminkow on The Beatles Pinball: design, licensing, community criticism, and market strategy.

Summary

Joe Kaminkow discusses the design, development, and licensing of The Beatles Pinball with Head2Head Pinball hosts. The game is a limited-edition (1,964 units) collaboration between Stern and Kaminkow, inspired by classic Seawitch gameplay but reimagined as a simpler, more accessible machine aimed at collectors, home players, and commercial venues. Kaminkow addresses community criticism about the game's design philosophy, pricing strategy, and accessibility, emphasizing that it was intentionally designed to appeal to non-hardcore players and Beatles fans.

Key Claims

  • The Beatles licensing deal was the most expensive pinball license in history

    high confidence · Joe Kaminkow stated directly: 'There has never been a license more expensive than Beatles or a pinball machine.'

  • The game is limited to 1,964 units worldwide

    high confidence · Joe Kaminkow: 'we thought we would limit it to 1,964 games' — referencing the year 1964 when Beatles came to America

  • Beatles licensing only permits approval once per year, making multi-year negotiation necessary

    high confidence · Joe Kaminkow: 'with Beatles licensing, you pretty much only get a window of opportunity once a year'

  • The playfield design was inspired by reimagining Stern Electronics' Seawitch, not Galaxy

    high confidence · Joe Kaminkow: 'I looked really hard at Galaxy at first, and almost made Galaxy, and then we started looking at it more closely. And actually, you know, going back and redoing Mike Kubin original SeaWish...kind of got us all excited'

  • The game will be produced in Chicago and is not manufactured in China

    high confidence · Joe Kaminkow: 'This stuff's not being made in China. It's being made here in Chicago. It's expensive.'

  • Cousin Brucie, the original 1964 announcer at the Ed Sullivan Show, provides the game's opening call-outs

    high confidence · Joe Kaminkow: 'Cousin Brucie was the original...In 1955, when they came to show the stadium, he was the announcer that announced them to all of New York City...Jerry flew to New York, and he got all excited about it'

  • If approximately half of the 1,964 units go overseas, only ~800 Beatles machines will be available for the U.S. market

    medium confidence · Joe Kaminkow: 'if half of them go overseas, you've only got 800 Beatles for the entire U.S. marketplace'

  • The game includes eight Beatles songs with licensing restrictions on song length

    high confidence · Joe Kaminkow: 'There were some restrictions on length of play, a couple are longer than others...most of the modes are 30 or 45 seconds'

Notable Quotes

  • “There has never been a license more expensive than Beatles or a pinball machine. So I hope people appreciate the risk we took to make this product. It was a huge risk.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~48:00 — Emphasizes the business risk and licensing cost investment behind The Beatles Pinball, contextualizing the game's premium positioning

  • “We made the game for the Beatles collector and for the player. The great thing about this product is you can walk up to it and you can play it and you can understand it and you can understand the objectives and you have four flippers.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~26:00 — Core design philosophy: accessibility and simplicity, explicitly rejecting complexity as a design goal

  • “We wanted it to feel like a game that was made in 1965 had some of that technology been available then.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~42:00 — Design intent: retro aesthetics married with modern technology, influenced by classic era pinball design

  • “If you want to have a beautiful game that plays like a beautiful game, buy a gold one. It's plenty fun. It looks beautiful.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~55:00 — Positioning of the three-tier pricing model; suggests gold version as value play within tiered strategy

  • “I'm just dying of almost laughter of all these amazing opinions that are out there about, you know, pinball should sell for $1,000 or, you know, why would you make a single-level game? We really don't care.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~24:00 — Dismissive response to community criticism about game design and pricing; reveals Kaminkow's confidence in design decision and some frustration with online discourse

  • “I never walk into a Waffle House without playing a two-puck. I don't walk into a place that's got a pinball and not shove a couple of bucks in the coin slot because I try and support the business, not just the hobby.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~50:00 — Philosophy on supporting pinball in public venues; implies coin-op version is integral to market strategy

  • “Ladies and gentlemen, the Beatles. I get goosebumps. It's fun. I was alive then.”

Entities

Joe KaminkowpersonGary SternpersonChristopher FranchipersonGeorge GomezpersonGreg FrerespersonMike Kubinperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: The Beatles Pinball officially revealed with three-tier pricing model (Gold/Platinum/Diamond) and 1,964-unit production limit tied to 1964 Ed Sullivan year.

    high · Joe Kaminkow confirms game now in production ('going into production next week'), retail tiers announced, and limited edition strategy disclosed

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Beatles Pinball intentionally designed to be approachable and fun for casual/new players, deliberately avoiding complex multi-ramp modern pinball design in favor of classic Sea Witch-inspired simplicity.

    high · Kaminkow: 'We wanted to play it up to the glass...none of us thought it should be a modern ramp-filled pinball' and 'you can walk up to it and you can play it and you can understand it'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Beatles licensing deal described as most expensive in pinball history with annual approval windows. Approval process involved Paul, Ringo, Olivia, and Yoko (Proye) as final decision-makers.

    high · Kaminkow: 'There has never been a license more expensive than Beatles' and 'you pretty much only get a window of opportunity once a year' with Beatles licensing

  • ?

    design_innovation: Game designed to evoke 1965-era aesthetics (bare wood playfield, retro art palette) while leveraging modern manufacturing capabilities (optical digital printing for faces, LCD display). Playfield reimagined from Sea Witch with modern enhancements (magnet, spinning disc, superjackpot).

    high · Kaminkow: 'We wanted it to feel like a game that was made in 1965 had some of that technology been available then' and detailed playfield improvements like magnet stops and spinning disc

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.319

0:00
you're listening to the head-to-head people podcast find us on facebook email us at Welcome to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 68 and my name's Martin and with me it's Ryan C. Marty, we've got Joe Kamikau coming on the show, Marty, but this week I've been playing a lot of Red Dead Redemption, Marty. I'm related to pinball, I know, but... Yeah, it's already one of the cardinal sins, the criss-crunching rules of podcasting. I'm bringing it around. Oh, okay, cool, cool, cool. Okay, so I'm sure you've heard about the game, Marty. I bought the game and I played it for about 20 hours and then I stopped playing it because it was just like GTA but in a western scene keep going okay well okay I've had a similar reaction because it's kind of reminding me why I so abruptly gave up video games and playing video games daily and replaced it with pinball machines because Rite of Redemption is so deep and yes there are deep pinball machines but it requires such a large investment of your time and while it's fun, a lot of it, Marty, as you experience, is chopping wood, right? It's too much work. So what you're saying to me is, wouldn't it be nice to just have like a simple game every once in a while? There are. There are heaps of simple games.
1:40
It's a bit longer than this, Marty. The arc of this little monologue I'm going to do is longer than 20 seconds, okay?
1:47
So yeah. Braces have money. so chopping wood in pinball means like you gotta invest two or three minutes hitting a bunch of shots to activate a mode or multiple but in Red Dead Redemption it's painfully slow chopping from one area to another you gotta feed your horse Marty you gotta clean your horse you gotta eat you gotta smoke you gotta fish you gotta hunt you gotta clean your weapons you gotta shit out you gotta upgrade your weapons upgrade your horse Marty you gotta upgrade your horse you gotta upgrade your health your stamina your Deadeye your campsite anyway nah look you know what I okay I know you're going to go somewhere. Quick time out there. Like, Horizon Zero Dawn that came out on PS4 does all of that, but in a much better setting. So I can understand why you would need to do that. I just didn't like the Western theme for Red Dead Redemption. Anyway, keep going.

Joe Kaminkow @ ~52:00 — Personal emotional connection to Beatles and the Ed Sullivan era; reflects generational target audience

  • “You know, put a buck in it and play it and have fun. And lighten up.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~32:00 — Direct exhortation to community critics to experience the game rather than argue online; reflects frustration with discourse

    • [name withheld pending review]person
    Cousin Brucieperson
    Jerry Thompsonperson
    [name withheld pending review]game
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Bravadocompany
    Apple Corpscompany
    [name withheld pending review]organization
    Aristocratcompany
    Seawitchgame
    Stern Electronicscompany
    Martinperson
    Ryan Cperson
    Pinsideorganization
    Total Nucleargame
    Charlie Emeryperson
    Head2Head Pinballorganization

    community_signal: Online community criticism about game design, pricing, and simplicity has provoked frustration from Kaminkow. Extensive social media pushback about why it's not more complex or cheaper.

    high · Kaminkow: 'I'm just dying of almost laughter of all these amazing opinions' and hosts note 'it's been a bit of a barrier for people to really understand' Kaminkow's vision

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Beatles Pinball manufactured domestically in Chicago, not outsourced to China. Reflects manufacturing cost premium and domestic supply chain strategy.

    high · Kaminkow: 'This stuff's not being made in China. It's being made here in Chicago. It's expensive.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Three-tier pricing strategy (Gold/Platinum/Diamond) with numbered certificates and aesthetic differentiation. Positioned as boutique specialty product rather than mass-market tentpole title. Distributors buy in fixed lots (1 Diamond, 2 Platinum, 7 Gold per package).

    high · Kaminkow: 'This was something designed to be very different than what we would call a pillar game' and pricing tiers described with package strategy

  • $

    market_signal: With 1,964 global units and estimated 50% overseas distribution, only ~800 Beatles machines projected for U.S. market. Scarcity strategy intentional.

    medium · Kaminkow: 'if half of them go overseas, you've only got 800 Beatles for the entire U.S. marketplace. It's not a lot of games.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Wide gap between community expectations (modern ramps, complex rules, lower price) and actual product design (simple, retro-inspired, premium price). Pre-release criticism on forums and social media.

    high · Hosts describe 'Beatles arguments' online and Kaminkow noting critics saying 'why would you make a single-level game?' Despite game being finished and in production

  • ?

    venue_signal: Game designed for location placement (FECs, bowling alleys, barcades, family entertainment centers) with optional coin door. Simpler maintenance than modern ramp-heavy machines.

    high · Kaminkow: 'it's not so complex it's not so hard to maintain you don't have to take ramps off to clean' and coin door availability confirmed for operators

  • ?

    content_signal: Extended interview with Joe Kaminkow on Head2Head Pinball addressing design philosophy, licensing, community response, and market strategy. Hosts preface with significant discussion about pinball community toxicity and discourse quality.

    high · Full episode structure with pre-interview discussion of community sentiment and detailed interview covering all major Beatles Pinball topics

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Kaminkow expresses visible frustration with online criticism and community discourse, dismissing critics as not understanding design intent and suggesting they simply play the game rather than argue.

    high · Kaminkow: 'I'm just dying of almost laughter...We really don't care' and 'put a buck in it and play it and have fun. And lighten up.'

    • 2:35
    So my point is that I fell in love... When I fell in love with Pinball, I fell in love with exactly that. Like, Pinball, not everything around it. And what I didn't fall in love with what I fell in love with pinball is Pinside and Aussie Arcade. Yeah, it's more confronting, right? Yeah, I mean, you have to love pinball to go to comps. You have to love pinball to be on Pinside or Aussie Arcade. And the reason I'm bringing it up, I guess, is in the last two weeks, I've spent a considerable amount of my pinball time, right, not playing pinball, but listening to the variety of points of view on what's happening in the hobby. now I'm not that naive but I understand that everyone's in the hobby for different reasons you're in it for a different reason than I am but I guess the two biggest examples American pinball, the monkey situation sexism and pinball, yep so I'm not here to argue either way, I think it's been done already and who's right or wrong but if you read the comment section it's an absolute blight on the hobby with the anger both ways from both people. And can you imagine if you're into pinball for the first time and you're like, oh, cool, all this new pinball machine, and then you kind of stumble across and you're like, holy shit. Yeah, but that's been the whole, you know, enigma of Pinside is that, you know, when you meet pinball people for the first time, you realise that there's all these really cool people out there that you can talk to, and then you can't... And I've had to do this many times when people will sort of say to me, so, you know, where can I get more information from? I was like, oh, shit, I don't want to tell them about Pinside, but I have to tell them about Pinside, but I need to give them a warning about Pinside. And just about every single time people come back and go, oh, fucking thanks for the warning, what a fucking... Jeez, that's a confronting. It's really confronting that for such a cheery, like it is a cheery hobby, pinball brings joy. Pinball is happy. that there's this really nasty, unnecessary dark side. There you go, I said it. Yeah, and I said the dark side is not Pinside. We're not saying that. It's just Pinside is the biggest place where you can have a conversation about pinball. Yeah, but it's also social media as well. Like, you know, I know we're going to go to the Joe Kamenkow interview and sort of I spoke to him about the fact that, you know, he was on social media trying to answer some of these questions and he was just being hurled. what could only be described as bile from one person in particular, and I just thought, fucking, fuck off. Just, like, fuck off, because this machine's not for you, and you're just being a fucking cunt.
    5:26
    Yeah. You've got to leave that in there, Marty. You can beep that one. Back to American Fimble really quickly. You know, hindsight is 20-20. I'm not sure if there was a better way for that conversation kind of to be had because, you know, what has been said, I'm not going to repeat kind of the nasty words from both sides.
    5:49
    But it reinforces the fact that we all love pinball, but that's the only common thing that we have. Yeah. It's like you have a different set of morals that you live your life by, and so do I. But then when something like this comes up, it all gets kind of thrown out into the open. but you can pretend that doesn't exist. You can go and play a competition and no one talks to each other, and it's like, hey, we just love pinball.
    6:12
    Anyway. And I've experienced that a couple of times, where I've met people in pinball, and I thought, oh, they're really nice people. I've got to add them on Facebook, and then realise they're massive racists. And that's really hard to deal with, because you've got to play pinball with them, and they are just nothing like you. And you're right. I mean, we've got pinball in common. And the good thing is that when you do get together and you play pinball, you talk about pinball and it's all about pinball. And that's a great place. And then go your separate ways and move on. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, lastly, I mean, you've already touched on Beatles, but it's, you know, we're not here to tell people that you should go and buy every new JDP and CERN machine and whatever they produce, you should support the hobby with your dollars. But people really do need to step away from the keyboard and play more pinball. Because if you are playing pinball, then I guess those are the happy people, and those are the people that aren't investing their time going to forums and arguing about the Beatles being what it is and not living up to their expectations in their mind, right? So you only get the worst of... Yeah, you get the extremes, right? Yeah, people that aren't actually playing pinball. And I think that's been in both big discussions that we've had, you know, Beatles and Sex and the Men Pinball, is that you've had the anti and the pro on extremes. The vast majority in the middle kind of go, I'm cool with it, I don't need to say anything. And we probably sound like some hypocrites because we have an entire section of our podcast where we argue foreign against pinball machines and the nature of the segment. We've got to fill the fucking podcast somehow. Yeah, but it's a joke. And yes, we're going to do the squirpies, which is literally the worst stuff in pinball, but it's, I don't know, I guess it's the way that people do it. You know, you can say, oh, hey, you know, this new pinball is not for me, or hey, I think this is a bit touchy, versus just, as I said, the bile that gets thrown out there. And, you know, we talked about this really early on when we started this podcast, that we were doing this for shits and giggles, right? We just had a bit of a chat, and we like a bit of laughing. and we will always find the funny side of things. That's just what we kind of... You know, as Australians as well, we take the piss. So when you've got these things where you look at it and you go, oh, how can I make fun of this? I can't. And this stuff isn't fun. It's serious.
    8:46
    And there are bigger issues at play here. What I'm saying, Marty, is my whole... You know, the whole reason is, can you please do the show notes from now on so I don't have to read it? I need a break from just reading about all this negative stuff. Unless it's all going to be sunshine and rainbows from now on, but, man, I really did my head in just reading just junk. Because I got sucked into one of the Beatles arguments, and then people were like, oh, it sounds like you're just trying to suck up to Stern to get someone on your show. It's like, no, I don't like people. We've got everybody that we need already. Like, we don't need any more. I really am looking forward to playing the Beatles, because the Beatles is a new pinball machine. No, pinball? Yeah. Okay.
    9:30
    Because there's a big statement I want to make. Let's get to the interview, and then we can talk about it after. What do you reckon? All right. Without further ado, Joe Camigal. Here he is. So thanks, Joe, for coming on and talking to us again. Obviously, we now know that Beatles has been revealed. What's the story? Well, you know, Gary and I have been wanting to do a Beatles project for easily 10 years or maybe longer. And we went and we presented and talked about the idea of doing a Beatles theme. And we pretty much flat turned down and told it to go away. And, you know, it's one of those things you kind of put in your calendar. Every year you make the phone call and you ask and you try and figure out if you can do it. And every year we sort of got rejected. You know, this is a product that, you know, for many collectors, both of Beatles merchandise and of pinballs. This is a dream theme, obviously You know, if you talk about all the rock bands that people have done Whether it be ACDC or Guns N' Roses Or Aerosmith or Elvis Presley Beatles stand alone And about two years ago Chris Franchi and I started doing some work together And we sat down and we said Well, gosh, if we were going to make a Beatles game What would it be and what would it look like? And we kind of went back and had about the coming to America Beatles, you know, young, you know, just breaking into the Ed Sullivan show. And Chris went back and put together a presentation package on the back glass, which the first one we did really was the Beatles in that moment in time when they were sort of on the Ed Sullivan show. And then did a cabinet and did a design and kind of wanted to make it look nostalgic and at a lot of Beatles. If you're a Beatles collector or a Beatles fan, everybody talks about great pinball that has lots of things to look at and lots of things to discover. We chalked it full of those elements. And we met with the fellow from the United States with Bravado that represents the Beatles and also the representative from Apple that happened to be over in Vegas at the Love Show. And we got together and had breakfast, and we showed them our presentation. And we took it back to London, and they thought about it. From what I understand, it was presented to Proye. And I said, what is Proye? Proye is Paul, Ringo, Olivia, and Yoko. And they really liked it. And we kind of got a little glimmer of the door open, and we developed it further and talked about how we do this and we thought we would limit it to 1,964 games and worked with Gary, worked with George. We thought about what would be the right way to construct this game and none of us thought it should be a modern ramp-filled pinball. We wanted to play it up to the glass. We wanted to make it fun. And, you know, a few people that are friends of mine, George and Gary, a friend of mine who works at Aristocrat, Victor Blackout, we all sort of talked about what would be interesting was, you know, constantly we heard from fans of pinball that it would be fun to go back and look at some of the classic Stern products like Meteor or Sea Witch or Galaxy and go back and go, you know, what would make, what would be a fun game to bring back into modern era. And actually, I looked really hard at Galaxy at first, and almost made Galaxy, and then we started looking at it more closely. And actually, you know, going back and redoing Mike Rubin's original SeaWish, you know, with a modern twist to it, kind of got us all excited, especially considering, you know, all the, you know, it's funny, all the pinball fans kind of forget all the, you know, bacon for it before. and decided to make a new edition of the product. It's sort of like saying, you know, you've got a Volkswagen Beetle in a 3D-in-a-Porsa design, and you've got a Volkswagen Beetle that Jay Mays designed. You know, they both have four wheels, and that's kind of really where the similarity really ends. You know, this was a redrawn play field. All the rough edges of the ball getting stuck behind metal ties and the left orbit not being able to be made. And a lot of those things, you know, we kind of went back and added, We had skill shots and super jackpot shots. They wanted to keep some of the rules intact because it was a pretty fun game to play. And then, of course, married with the Beatles and, you know, go back and have a magnet to stop the ball on the top so you didn't have endless loops. And then, you know, go back and put a spinning disc on it and have the ball be a little more fun. And then, obviously, the original game did that multi-ball, if I recall correctly. Also, things started to fall into place. and went back to the Beatles people and showed them what we were thinking, and they got excited about it. And, you know, all of a sudden, just everything just kind of felt good and felt right. And, you know, it's killing me. I'm just dying of almost laughter of all these amazing opinions that are out there about, you know, pinball should sell for $1,000 or, you know, why would you make a single-level game? And we really don't care. We made the game once. And this is for the beetle collector and for the player. The great thing about this product is you can walk up to it and you can play it and you can understand it and you can understand the objectives and you have four flippers. You can knock out targets. You can make fun loops. It's just, you know, you guys haven't played the game yet. It's just a heck of a lot of fun. And so what I've seen in the last couple of days is that, and it's actually been really good for you, I think, to see you on social media sort of trying to educate people on what you were going for and what it is. I kind of noticed, though, that it's been a bit of a barrier for people to really understand.
    15:46
    I guess from your perspective, it's like, well, that's not really our market, or is it? We were trying to make a game that wasn't overpriced, that was really fun to play, that you could put in your house or your office or in a family entertainment center or bowling alley or someplace where people can gather and play and have fun and walk up to it and not be intimidated by a mountain of ramps or obscure rules. I mean, I play some of the modern pinball today. Before I even plunge the first ball, you're asking me to decide what path I'm traveling or what character I have to be or what set of rules are going to come up first. and it reminds me of years ago there was a ballet game. They had three sets, maybe a thunderdome. They had three sets of rules. Select which set of rules you wanted. None of the rules were any good. It was just like one of three sets of bad rules. We just wanted one set of really fun rules. We wanted to go back to shoot the blinking light is what you need to get and then marry it with eight Beatles songs. so what we're trying to do is to kind of retro classic we kind of envision the game you know everybody's talking about the art first of all the art palette is the color of what's going to be hot this coming fall of next year but when you go back and look at this art Chris and I were really meticulous as was George and Greg Ferris to really kind of make this somewhat retro when was the last time you saw bare wood going through a play field with just a hard coat on it We wanted it to feel like a game that was made in 1965 had some of that technology been available then. Now, guys, you couldn't make a game that's this beautiful five years ago because the optical digital printing to make their faces look so great didn't exist. In 1967, we did Gorgar. I mean, it was $450 for 11 seconds of speech. you know this thing is just a marvel and it's got speech from all the Beatles and it's got you know it's just really fun with multiball ready going and it's an insane help right and it's really cool when you go into multiball and that guitar strums and it's a hard day's night so I know there are a lot of people pissing in their pots right now and they're not going to buy one and I'm not expecting to buy one but you know put a buck in it and play it and have fun We saw the Diamond Edition the other day, and there didn't seem to be a coin slot in the door. So will this be an option to ship with a coin door, and will you be able to put this machine on site, or is this a home use only? Yes? Yes.
    18:41
    Okay. So all the speculation that no, yes, we get. Then we have a coin door. Okay. Does everybody want one? No, but if you want one, You want to put it in your can or case. You want to go to a, you know, I certainly expect like the Asheville Pinball Museum will have one, right? People tend to come in and play it. They don't need a coin door. It's free, right? A lot of barcades or family entertainment centers don't have coin doors. But if you want to put a coin door on it and operate it, go ahead. I can confirm for you, Ryan, we will get to play this.
    19:18
    I know someone that's bought one, so I get it. Yeah, and one of the things that we wanted to make sure was, you know, we didn't want all these games to just disappear into private collections, never be seen or played by anybody. And, you know, that's kind of one of the fears we had. You know, some of the really amazing supercars today, when Ford sold the new Ford GT, you know, they wanted to make sure people would drive them. They didn't want them just going to a collection with a door that was closed where no one ever put their car on the road. So the same thing here. We want people to enjoy the Beatles game, and all the guys that are screaming, the can of cold water is too much money. You know, I never walk into a Waffle House without playing a two-puck. I don't walk into a place that's got a pinball and not shove a couple of bucks in the coin slot because I try and support the business, not just the hobby. And all these guys that are out there complaining about stuff, put a buck in the game and have some fun. You know, lighten up. You know, I said to one guy yesterday, he has a heart-lung machine and get a life, you know.
    20:18
    Joe, the eight songs that are in there, will they be the full songs, or was there any licensing restrictions about which part of the song you're going to play? There were some restrictions on length of play, a couple are longer than others. But, you know, how we designed the game, you know, most of the modes are 30 or 45 seconds. The songs are a lot longer than that, of course. But, you know, we didn't need every last second of it. This was, and people don't get it, you know, they're all complaining about, you know, this game. I mean, I licensed Jurassic Park. I licensed Star Wars. You know, I had South Park. I had the best of the best of the best brands at the zenith of their moment.
    21:03
    There has never been a license more expensive than Beatles or a pinball machine. So I hope people appreciate the risk we took to make this product. It was a huge risk. Last time we spoke to you, I think you were saying that, you know, with Beatles licensing, you pretty much only get a window of opportunity once a year. So when you presented your package and everything, is that it? They've approved everything. You've just got to now deliver what has been agreed to. Nothing can be really changed because there's no further approvals for another. Oh, no, no. We adjusted and modified up until just last week to refine or found some extra images that they found to give us for the display or things like that. This has really been a living, working piece of, you know, what we approved was here's the concept. What we delivered was a final product.
    22:00
    So, you know, again, it was just baby steps along the way. the people from Apple Corps, Paul and it was incredible to work with Beetle Joe in New York from Bravado was a guide of every step, I mean they went through everything with fine-tooth combs I'll tell you Chris pulled his hair out and Greg pulled his hair out and I pulled my hair out we got a lot of things in this product that really made it really special and we all felt this was the right era of beetles to present. This was how most of us remember that first moment when the game starts and goes, ladies and gentlemen, the Beatles. I get goosebumps. It's fun.
    22:47
    I was alive then. It's funny, I think a lot of our commenters today on social media in their 20s and 30s and maybe 40s, they weren't alive to experience when the Beatles came to America.
    23:00
    But our best baby boomers, who, I mean, you go online and you see, you know, autographed albums of the Beatles for $100,000 or, you know, a musical instrument, you know, going for charity for $50,000. I mean, people are into and collect Beatles. So, again, you know, we wanted to make something that was in range, that, you know, still makes it special. I mean, everybody talks about Supreme. Okay, well, some people bought Supreme for $10,000. Some people bought Supreme for $10,000 and left it in the box and put it on eBay, and every day they look and see if it's sold for $70,000, and it hasn't. But all the guys that now are playing one that's $10,000, they think they got a $70,000 pinball. What the heck is wrong with that?
    23:46
    Okay, enjoy the fantasy. I just won the lottery. I don't think anybody that gets a Beatles game will ever regret it, and then they'll never have trouble reselling it, and will never have trouble having friends that want to come over and play it or women that will want to play it or kids that will want to play it. I mean, it's the Beatles. Reality check here. We finally really have the Beatles pinball. And, you know, all this conversation about, you know, it didn't have this and it didn't have that. And, you know, to run a modern pinball factory and to build a pinball and to build pin plates and to do art and screens and programming. It's damn expensive. This stuff's not being made in China. It's being made here in Chicago. It's expensive. So, look, I also saw a comment by you where you said that they're either going to sell out pretty quickly or they're selling really fast. Who do you think is buying them? Who's buying them? Are they collectors or are they part of the pinball community? I think a little bit of everything. I mean, it's going to be the reason we're in production next week. It's going to be the hot thing for Christmas this year. I mean, you're a baby boomer. You know, you've got extra tasks. The stock market's been good. You've got a game room. Who's not going to want to buy a Beatles pinball for the family and put it in their basement or show it off to their office or in their man cave or the woman cave? then again, the FEC Family Entertainment Center like a Dave and Buster's, you may get a pinball back on location you may get a pinball back in a movie theater but it's not so complex it's not so hard to maintain you don't have to take ramps off to clean I saw a lot of comments about Total Nuclear, that's a really nice little game I enjoy playing that product do you think when somebody makes a Fiat, somebody makes a Chevy doesn't mean they're both not bad transportation. I think, you know, we don't have to trash one to the detriment of the other. You know, Charlie Emery built a nice product. It's fun. You know, does it have a lot of drop targets? No, but then again, Laser War was really fun. Yeah, it's nine targets and a ramp. Three top lanes and three pop bumpers. This game's got, you know, three banks of drop targets. It's got four flippers. It's got lots of targets. It's got lots of really fun shots. Magnificent. And it's reminiscent of a play field that no one has seen for 40 years. So, okay, a 35-year-old guy that's puking about it, writing stuff, never played it when it was new. And if he wants to say, I can play with Beatles on my headphone, okay have fun It ain the Beatles game trust me It is not Talk to us about the price Joe
    26:42
    I don't think it's officially being announced yet, but there's talk that it's the same price for all of them, but distributors have to buy them in lots, and they get to choose what they sell the two higher-end models at. Yeah, I'll let Gary comment and John on pricing. I really don't do any of that part, and it's not part of my deal with them. But the original strategy was to create a collectible tier for the product. The diamond will be a little more special.
    27:14
    The gold will be special in its own way. And look, the guys that buy pinballs that sell them, they're going to tell us to make a profit. And what it'll allow us to do is, you know, lava, you know, if they come as a package of, I think, one diamond, two platinum, and seven gold, will there be some pure pricing? Yeah, well, people, you know, the market will bear what the market will bear. If you want to have a beautiful game that plays like a beautiful game, buy a gold one. It's plenty fun. It looks beautiful. And actually, maybe my personal, I think I like that back last event. But everybody's got their preference. But again, this was something designed to be very different than what we would call a pillar game or a tentpole game for Stern. This is a one-off specialty product in partnership with me that's not intended to sell the same way as every pinball, and it's not intended to be the same as every pinball. It was really positioned to be, you know, a specialty boutique product that, you know, Gary and I will do something special every year or two or three. If I find something I think is worthy of my time and my effort and to put my name on, that I think will be different than everything else the collectible community gets. You know, look, there are plenty of medieval madnesses out there, okay? there are going to be a whole lot of bedpoles out there. There are going to be 1,964 Beatles and if half of them go overseas, you've only got 800 Beatles for the entire U.S. marketplace.
    29:09
    It's not a lot of games. What does the diamond and platinum version have over the gold version? Is it mostly to do with the cabinet and trans-idot? translate our mirror back glass on the diamond numbered sign certificates of authenticity, things like that. They are the same game primarily, but I don't think we're going to have a hard time selling 800 pinballs in America. What's the involvement with Cousin Brucie? It was announced that he's doing the call-outs I think for the pinball machine?
    29:48
    Yeah, and that was a great piece of work by Jerry Thompson. Cousin Brucie was the original, he's like an XM DJ.
    29:58
    And he does like a 60s show on XM every week. And in 1955, when they came to show the stadium, he was the announcer that announced them to all of New York City.
    30:14
    So he met the Beatles. He knew the Beatles. He promoted the Beatles. He introduced the Beatles. And I thought, wow, how nostalgically fantastic would that be to get him to do the speech. And Jerry flew to New York, and he got all excited about it, explaining how the game worked, how the speech worked in the game. And really, it's just perfect. So it's a little bit of a 60s DJ.
    30:41
    It's got eight 60s Beatles pop hit songs. we've got a great video and speech the display work will be the most beautiful display work you've ever seen on an LCD display on a pinball we brought in a specialist for that has done work with me when I was at Aristocrat and I'm telling you the display work is it's just top drawer eye popping sparkle stick worthy stuff I think we got a little sneak peek in that little teaser video at the end.
    31:19
    I guess people didn't know because it was the full screen and it wasn't on the LCD. But, yeah, if that's what it is, it looks pretty good. It's great stuff. So this is a very meticulously designed, well thought out game. And the rules are fun and they're tweaked and they're understandable and they're challenging. I mean, if you like playing pinball, I think for free, this game's going to make you work to get stuff. Yeah, well, me and Marty were talking about it, that yes, it borrows a lot of aspects of Stern Electronics' Sea Witch, but the differences look like they're enough to kind of totally change the way that you play the game with the loops, the magnet, the super jackpot target under the drop targets. Yeah. So, in your opinion, does it play kind of anything like Sea Witch? Is it a very fast game? Is it a bit more supple and shrewd? It's fast. It's got a really great play field.
    32:20
    It's been reimagined, and, you know, you don't have to worry about something that's right. We didn't want to screw this up. You know, the roles are good, but they're challenging. they're deep and they're multi-ball and there's, you know, you've got to do a lot of things to get to higher levels of scoring and there's depth. But then again, if, you know, first-time pinball players never played pinball before and this is going to attract them to the game or you're something else like casual in your basement that, again, you don't have to spend 15 minutes, you know, deciding what character to select first before you play. Plunge and plunge. Shoot the blinking light. Knock down the targets. You know, everybody goes and they play all these classic games with all the pin shows, and they kind of have fun with it, but, you know, this is like a new car with old attributes, right? Everybody loves the new T-Bird. Everybody likes the 911. The 911 isn't different. The 911 looks a lot like the 911 that came out in 1964.
    33:22
    If you look at both of them, you go to both Porsches, but, you know, a new 911 is not the same as a 911 from 1965, thought. And I think that's probably the analogy I can give you. Yeah, okay, it looks a little like Sea Witch. Tell me. It doesn't play like Sea Witch. Sea Witch didn't have strong flippers like these games have. They didn't have digital sound. They didn't have displays. They didn't have magnets. They didn't have multi-ball troughs. They didn't have a lot of stuff. The Sea Witch, yeah, it's a 9-11. It looks really good, but the new 9-11, that's a whole different beast. And by the way, the new 9-11 sells for $100,000, not $6,000 too. So, you know. George Gomez sort of now showed that kind of Stern wants to be all things pinball and they want to kind of dip their toes in all aspects of pinball, whether it be, you know, the Supreme pinball machine, the Spider-Man Home Edition, you know, their regular Cornerstone games. And then, of course, he was kind of alluding to this new thing that was coming. So, you know, me and Marty kind of heard rumors about it, And so we weren't surprised, but we were taken aback by the reaction. And I guess it's just people's resistance to change and, I guess, accept anything new, and that comes in all aspects of life. We have this problem out there in the world today. Everybody hides behind their handle, right? Everybody hides behind their computer screen.
    34:45
    And, you know, pinball community, I just got some advice to you. Lighten up. Play pinball. Have fun, you know? You don't like the game? You don't have to play it. You don't want to buy it. You don't have to buy it. You want to pass judgment on it before you've played it? No, I'm going to prove you wrong. I've done that my whole career. This is a damn fun, great, tootball machine. It's exactly the game the Beatles wanted us to make. It's exactly the game Gary George and I wanted to make.
    35:19
    And working with our vision and how it turned out. I hope you all like it a lot. And we may see another Kapow product in the future. Well, we hope so. But I'm not sure what we'll get out to the Beatles, because this one's a doozy. Awesome. Well, thanks very much for coming on, Joe. We really do appreciate your time, and we look forward to playing this machine and seeing it very, very soon. Yeah. Well, production starts, I think, next week. So if you guys want one, you better get your order for things because they really, truly are moving fast. And I hope you enjoyed playing it when you sit on location or at a friend's house. It's just an absolute ball. All right, Jay. Thanks, mate. Thanks very much. All right, fellas. See you. Have a good one. Bye.
    36:12
    So there we go, Ryan. And that was Joe Kamenkow back for a second, helping on our podcast. What did we learn? There is going to be a coin door. After all that bullshit that we screwed up, there is going to be a coin door.
    36:27
    Interesting about the songs. Yeah, well, I was going to say, but the pictures that we've seen so far, God knows whether they're legit, don't actually have a coin slot on the door. So, you know, whatever. Oh, yeah, it was fair to assume based off the rumors and then based off the picture. But, yeah. Yeah. We'll know when to cover that. I mean, Stern are going to release, I think, tomorrow or the next day, on the 6th of November, I think, the official release of the proper on their Facebook page. I don't know why they do the whole two-week thing. I guess let Pinside have their meltdown and then everyone can come around that for two weeks. Yeah. Well, so before the interview, which feels like only seconds ago, you had said that you're looking forward to playing it, and so am I. and I've spoken to a lot of people about it and I've spoken to a lot of people in person, unlike you where you, you know, battle the trolls.
    37:22
    And do you know what? Every person that I've spoken to said, it looks good. I like the look of it. I just don't like the price of it, which is fair enough. 100%. Everyone's like, how much does it cost, Brian? Like, you know, this is awesome. How much does it cost? I'm like, all right, like 8,000 US is the rumor price. Convert that, add GST, this, this, that. and, yeah, like about $13,000 Australian dollars is what I'm guessing, but I'm like, oh, no, not for that much. So it's a collector's piece, right? It's always going to be a collector's piece. I'll tell you the point where I got it. So because I've been sort of scratching my head a bit going, that's an asking price and that's not a, you know, a machine with very deep rules or ramps and all that kind of stuff that we expect. But it was when I was sitting to Joe Camercow and he said, you know what, when we were looking at the Beatles license, we thought to ourselves, let's make a retro machine.
    38:18
    And as soon as he said that, I went, yeah, okay, I get that. And I think about the Beatles, if you were to make a modern machine, I just don't think you would be able to catch that retro vibe of the Beatles. It would be just another Stern.
    38:36
    Well, it'd be a great Stern. Look, I'm not saying it wouldn't. But what sets this apart now is the fact that it is very different to all other Sterns and... Except for Sea Region. Well, modern Sterns as opposed to Stern Electronics. But it really does set itself apart. And as a result, it has massively polarized people. But it will sell out. You reckon? Yeah, I do. Okay. We'll see. I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out in my head. Is the demand there? Is it not?
    39:16
    To me, it's almost like 50-50. It only sells out if the hype gains a bit of... the machine gains a bit of momentum.
    39:24
    Well, as you said, I don't know whether he's got the official distribution numbers, but he was saying half of those for America, half of those for the rest of the world. That's 800 machines to be sold in America. That's fuck all. that's the maths on that is not right half of 1964 is not 800 that's missing like 300 years 900 950 there you go we're good at maths but it's still not a lot of machines anyway whatever we're done We're done with the Beatles, aren't we? I really want to play it. I want to play... I'm going to say it. I want to play a three-wits that feels good.
    40:18
    Okay. Well, I'm getting my little ramp, little orbit diverter thingy, shooter lane thing, so... Yeah. Sure, yep. Anyway, Beatles apparently will be at IAPA, Marty, on November the 13th. And I can't remember what IAPA stands for. I don't know what state it's in, but... I think the last time... A year ago, we talked about the same thing. Okay, it is the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions. What state is it in, Marty?
    40:55
    This is the problem that we had last time with this website, is it took us a while to work out where it is. Orlando, Florida. Cool. Okay. Yeah, we've got a friend of the show going there that's going to take some video and pictures for us. So, I mean, the official release is like tomorrow anyway, but there we go.
    41:16
    So, talking about prices. Yeah. Segway. Yeah, we got an email this week, Marty. We did. So, Al, the local distributor for Stern Pimple Machine is a company called Amusement Machine Distributors, or AMD we call them. In fact, we had Michael Bowyer from AMD on the show a while ago. and I don't know whether everybody knows but effectively over the last, I'm going to say two years, Brian, two years, the Australian dollar has just been diving and diving and diving. Apparently it started two years ago. I don't know what happened two years ago but that's apparently when it started and our dollar is now just in the poo, is what you would say. Yeah. And as a result, AMD has had to put their prices up by 5%. Yeah, it's, I mean, if you live in the US, you buy at the same currency that Stern sells their pens for because you're in the same country, and Stern has price rises, so you feel that, but we have to feel the price rise plus any currency swing. And usually it's kind of like sticky the other way. Like if the US dollar becomes really good, like in the next two weeks or something, and it's back up like 10%, prices aren't going to go down, okay?
    42:44
    Usually not because they have to transfer a lot of money at one time. It's like you have to hedge, not hedge, but you have to pretty much buy in advance. You say, okay, well, it's up to 72 cents now. let's convert half a million dollars of Australian funds into US to protect ourselves from any more swings. Anyway, 5% more. So the cheapest price now for a pro, Marty, is like, what's it, $8,850 Australian dollars? Yep, there it is. It's a lot of money. It is. So that Beatles machine, for example, right now, just straight conversion, if it was $8,000 US, is $11,110.32. Now, that's just a straight conversion. That's unfortunately not how it works. Add about another 50% on that, and then you've got your Australian price.
    43:33
    Well, yeah, we have to add GST, which is 10%. And I know in the U.S., there's ways to get around it in the U.S. where you buy it from a different state, this, this, and that. In Australia, it's not like that. All the states cooperate together. There's one tax for the entire country. So unless you're a business, you can claim back that tax. but if you're not a business then yes you're paying that tax so we are in the poo you know everything now pretty much being imported from the states is very expensive for us so stop doing it buy local I guess I was going to say home pin but he's in China that's right you wouldn't really call them Australian anymore no So... One day, one day, Ryan, one day we've really got to tell what we think about that situation. And I think, and I'm going to jump a few stories ahead, I think that's where it's really going to come out with the twerpies. Okay.
    44:41
    Deadpool has arrived in Australia, yes. The stuff was delayed for whatever reason. Everyone is loving it, Marty. Not everyone, but everyone that owns the machine is saying, best thing ever. Everyone is very happy. I think it's just the pros. I know someone who's getting an Ali and he's like, yeah, it's going to come in January now. I'm like, January? That's a long time. Anyway, I think it might be sold out in Australia, the Ali. I'm not sure. But anyway, we got to play it a bit more during the week. Yes, we played it in a tournament. Yeah, should we just tell the tournament story now so we can talk about Deadpool? or... Yeah, Deadpool is an absolute shitter in a tournament.
    45:23
    Is that what you were going to say? I just wanted to just take a sip of that. I was going to dance around it a little bit.
    45:31
    No, just saying it. It fucked us up the butt every game we played. Yeah, it was a three-strikes tournament and I got two strikes on Deadpool. You got two strikes on Deadpool. So, yes, we have an ego and yes, that's involved. is like, we both want our things. Like, oh my God. How dare you say that we've got an ego? Yeah, Paul, it's amazing, Marty. We've won the game. It's so deep.
    45:53
    What I kind of dislike at the moment is that once you're in a mode, you really feel like you're just, you're stuck in that mode and that's all, that's all you can do. Yep, that's right. How do you blow up the mode? I guess you have to get multi-sized or something, right? No, I don't. Yeah, I guess there's team-ups and there's weapon upgrades, but I don't know. There's a lot. It's very, not risky, but it's very ballsy to create games where when you're in a mode, it's kind of like, not shut everything off, but it really feels like you're just in that mode. Yeah, that's all there was. The mode has to be really polished and really good, and I'm not sure if we're there yet with Deadpool.
    46:34
    I don't know. I don't want to use the word boring, but it just seemed like not a lot of stuff was going on. Compared to Iron Maiden, Iron Maiden was literally to the right of it, and Iron Maiden makes a habit of doing that. Like, everything is happening almost all the time. Every shot counts. Yeah, yeah. This one's very linear. It does force you down a certain path, and that's kind of what screwed me both games. And admittedly, I don't really know the rules all that well. Yes, everyone laughs. I don't know the rules. I read the rule sheet, Marty. It took me, like, two minutes. I was like, ah, okay, so that is it. Like, there actually isn't that much to it at the moment. Ninja Multi-Ball, I mean, the ramp, everyone complains about that ramp. That ramp was working fine to me. You just have to hit the shot properly. Well, that's not true. Really? That is absolutely not true, because a couple of times I hit that shot absolutely perfectly, maybe a little too perfect. I think it was on the fly. If you hit it on the fly. No? No. No, not at all. So I just think that if it's too powerful, it'll overshoot and hit the medal on the right. But if it's just got just enough velocity, it'll go up.
    47:47
    The weirdest thing is that when you end up getting that multiball, there still isn't any factor. It just does. And it reminds me of Lord of the Rings. You have Lord of the Rings now, Marty, so we can talk about this like we really know what we're talking about. Yeah. You start two towers multiple, which is very close to being the same mech. It's a massive sword. We lock three balls on two on the playfield.
    48:08
    You know what I mean? Like, a new power is rising. Two wall! And all the lights go off. Yeah. This is just being multiple, and it starts. I get this. Okay. Here's what I think about that, and I'm going to give them a leave pass until we get further in the code. Because, you know, that's choreography that I think needs to be... If they don't know necessarily where the code's going to go at this stage, don't redo the choreography every time you do a code update. Just get the rules right, and then at some stage, get Tim Sexton in. He's the master of, you know, lights and choreography. Slack flashes, I hope. Yeah, you know, get him to do some stuff, and then bang. Yeah, it's still at .8 something. So, I mean, this is like Guardians of the Galaxy Well, maybe not. Okay, Guardians of the Galaxy, it was blaringly obvious that the code, you know, wasn't where it should be, and it was super flashing lights. This is the same. I think this is the same, because... Well, okay, no, I think the base is there. No, that's it. Each mode has good rules, but it just seems like it's not that fun yet to play them all. Oh, I know, but that's exactly what Guardians was when it first came out. Everything was there that you had to do. You could start a mode, and you could start multiballs. there just wasn't anything special about that. And the modes have changed completely, Martin. The modes have changed completely, and the multivolves have changed completely in Guardians. No, I know that. But even before they had that major, it was starting to see promise from the start till, you know, three or four months in. You could start seeing where it was going. It was like, yeah, I can see where... And then, bang, that massive code hit, and it's like, yep, you've opened it up. So, you know, Deadpool's got some way to go. but right now, as I said, multi-balls are there, the modes are there. Where the magic happens, and this is, I'll call it the Lyman effect. Yeah, there we go. We're putting him up on a pedestal again. It's the ability to make the combination of things happen that creates magic, as opposed to right now, there's not a combination of everything. You're either in a mode with a multi-ball or you're in a multi-ball or you're in a mode. That's it. There's not any of these subtle things that you can sort of bring in to actually create your own instance of that game.
    50:24
    Funny you say that, because the first game I played on it at the tournament was against Daniel, and we both didn't really know how to play it that well. I had a couple games on it previously, and I think he went first and I went second, and I just said, I'm going to copy exactly what you do. Let's have the same game and just see where it goes, because this is not a serious tournament. So we did do exactly the same, like, I chose the same mode that he chose, I bought in multiple and he bought it in. We were, like, two or three million away from each other at the end of the game, which just kind of, like, it proves exactly what you said, that it's kind of so... Yeah. Like, the experience is kind of the same if you do the same thing. Yep. I don't know, maybe that's a good thing. Versus, like, Star Wars, where it's, like, we did the same thing, but you have, you know, a billion and I have 200 million. I don't know. And that's what I was saying about what Lyman has done with the machines, and I think Walking Dead is probably the example of it, where you've got all the elements there, but he adds some extra things in there that means that now you can combine things multiple ways. So it's not just a mode and a multiball. It's a mode, a multiball, and a multiply lane. You know what I mean? Or you can then add something to it. So those three things that you add together becomes your experience, and that's where the magic happens, and it's just not there now.
    51:51
    I was about to say, like, you've got to have more than, like, five modes. Like, you have to, like, drill deeper into the mode. But, I mean, Iron Maiden just did that. Everyone loves Iron Maiden, so I don't know what it is.
    52:02
    The one shot on the playfield which just felt so weird to hit was the shot to the left of the scoop that, it's kind of like that mini horseshoe. Yeah. It just looks sideways on the playfield, and I've never, Yeah, I mean, usually when there's a horseshoe, like in No Fear with Steve Ritchie and with Star Wars, it kind of like, it comes back at you. Well, this is kind of like, comes back sideways. You've made the shot, but it feels like you're punished by the ball going sideways. I don't know. It just puts it back into danger, really, is what it does. Yeah, and maybe it's worth a lot. I don't know the rules enough for that, but I don't know. I don't like making shots and the ball goes sideways. Yeah. No, I... Well, nobody does. I mean, that's the whole thing about pinball, is that the more the ball is going sideways, the more danger there is going to be. And you're right, horseshoes. And I've got to tell you, one of the most satisfying shots, let's just say it's the only satisfying shot, is the horseshoe shot in WrestleMania. That's a great shot. That feels really good. I don't remember it, actually.
    53:08
    It's good. It fast It comes from one flipper to the other It feels good I guess I backing up what you saying is that traditionally a horseshoe shot is it comes back This one it just a fucking loop in it and then back into danger. Yeah. Anyway, but that's the only thing I'll say about, now that I've had more time on Deadpool, is there is some flow, but it's not a flow game. People have talked about it, but I don't understand why there's that area of the playfield that's open where the ball can just kind of trickle into the shooter lane.
    53:45
    When you hit the orbit, I don't know why it's not closed off, because it seems like they could close that off, and it was left open on purpose. Maybe that'll be integrated into the firmware. It's like, hey, it's a super secret loop shot something. I don't know.
    54:01
    I almost feel like it's not wasted, but we're reviewing a game that isn't complete. They are selling it, so they do deserve any feedback and criticism. But at the same time, it's just like all this shit we said about Guardians. Now we're like, yeah, we like Guardians. We love Guardians now. And I think that this has got absolute potential. And you're right. Everyone that I know, hi, James, the bought one, loves it.
    54:26
    James, your mate James? Yep. Okay. Yeah, everyone loves it. That's the cool thing about not buying pinball machines. You can be more critical about it. And we do it because we're like, okay, well, we can be happy about not owning it by pickling it, right? We're not pickling it. I actually think it's a great game. I'm really looking forward to what they can do with the rules because it's really the only thing that's sort of letting it down at the moment. Well, we can play every week, every month, sorry, at Pixel Alley, which is good. They've got a really good lineup there. Pretty much every new stern is going to be there. We'll talk about Pixel later. Okay.
    55:02
    I've got something to talk about. Okay. Anyway, Batman, speaking of code, Batman is now at 0.99, and this particular update is huge.
    55:18
    How big, Manny? It's not. It's not? It's not. Surely at 1.0, the Super Alley owners will hear their special call-out to make them feel good about spending 15K on the machine. Yeah. No, this is, you know, increased minor villain mode select timer. Yeah, who cares? I want to talk about Dialed In. Okay, Dialed In.
    55:39
    So, Dialed In. There is beta code out on the JTP secret forum thingy. Yeah, and they're allowed to test it. And I went to a kid's party yesterday that had a Dialed In, and I got to play it. So, man, it really feels complete now. they did change a bunch of settings. There's Quantum Theater, Multi-Ball, Marty, and that's by starting all the four Quantum Theater modes. They were kind of there before. You probably see them happening like Spider-Spinner. Like Spider-Spinner and stuff, yeah. Yeah, like, whatever. Yeah, like, it's there, but I'm not going to shoot for it. Yeah, that's right. There's no reason. It's a safe shot, though.
    56:22
    But, yeah, if you do all four now, you get Quantum Theater, Multi-Ball. The Bob modes are worth heaps more now, so, like, getting a selfie taken isn't just for fun. It's for points as well. Right.
    56:33
    But yeah, I guess the biggest, I think, default setting change is the SIM card hold. So if you get a SIM card lit and you drain your ball, it will still be held the next ball. Now, I don't know how I think about that because, I mean, that's what everyone in their head thinks they want. But doesn't that make the card shop less satisfying? Oh, you can put it back in normal. Okay. No, I think for a casual player, do it. Yeah, for a casual player, for sure. I just want to be punished because the more punishment you get, the more satisfying it is when you achieve something, I think. In simple anyway. Yeah, look, I think we talked about this with Raymond Davidson when he was on. I like the fact that the SIM card shot is difficult because besides the Big Bang target, which is still very doable, there's nothing really difficult to shoot for.
    57:36
    Are you saying that you can play all the modes really easily, Marty, every time? No, no, no. There's obviously, you know, there's rebounding and, you know, the ball is wild. But what I'm saying is, you know, there's no other shot really that you look at and you go, oh, that ramp's tough or the orbit's a tough or, you know, the ball on the ramp is tough. There's nothing that's really brutally tough. Okay. Except for a tip-off where I like that. Okay. And this is why half of Pat Lawler games are really good and half of Pat Lawler games are really shit, because he does make really easy, satisfying shots, and you need good code to accommodate for that, right? Like lighting lock on Daldin, okay? The first lock is literally hitting the side ramp or the left orbit, and then you've got your ball locked and multi-balls happening. The second time around, you need to hit the left ramp and the right ramp in any order, and then the side ramp three times. the second time around you need to hit sorry, the third time around you need to hit the left ramp and right ramp in a combo, Marty. Yes, that's right. The fourth time, yeah, the fourth time you have to hit the left and right ramp in a combo but it'll only light one shot first, right? So you can't hit any shot to start it. You have to hit the shot that it wants to light. And I think that's where it maxes out. I'd love to see it one step further where you have to hit a four-way combo to get multiple. So left ramp, right ramp, up the middle, and then side shot. But what I'm saying is that if it was just the same thing every time, then you can get into multi-ball all day, but it just gets progressively harder. And some games like Adam's Family and Twilight Zone, you can do the same thing over and over again because the left and right ramp on Twilight Zone, yes, it's so easy that you can just keep on, like it doesn't get harder at all.
    59:22
    So, yeah. Like Family Guy. Family Guy has amazing shots. You can just get such sweet combos, but they just mean nothing. Does it?
    59:33
    Yeah. It doesn't look like it does, but there's that... Family Guy, I don't like the shots in Family Guy at all.
    59:39
    Okay, here's the shot combo, Marty. I think it's like... It doesn't matter what the shot combo is. They're all awkward shots. Like, they just are. Okay. I don't know. Okay, left ramp, right orbit, and then the upper shot into that U-turn, whatever, and then it just spits it out the left, the right orbit. I don't know. It's satisfying to shoot. It just doesn't, I don't know. I find that machine really clunky. Okay. Anyway, Pat Lawler needs a good coder by his side. Yeah, like Ted. Like Ted. Even though Ted is the guy who also did Twilight Zone. That was 25 years ago, Marty, okay? It's been a while since then. Fair enough. Cool. So that's all in. So I guess that'll be coming out of beta soon, and I'm guessing sometime this week maybe when they clear all the tiny little bugs, everyone will be getting their new Daldin code. It's very exciting. Awesome. Well done, everyone.
    60:29
    And Daldin last year, Marty, cleaned up, actually cleaned up in the Twippies and it came last in the Twippies. I think the TNA and Daldin cleaned up by not getting any nominations. It was a big flash, wasn't it? Yeah, the Twippies. So the Twippies are our own version of the Twippies because we weren't smart enough to think of the Twippies by ourselves, and it basically celebrates the worst stuff in Timble. And yes, we've been on a little thing just before we did the Cameca interview about not being too negative, but this is just that. It's just for fun. It's an Australian way of... Oh, it's just for giggles. It's just because we like to take the piss. So last year we had worst theme, worst art, worst theme integration, worst callouts, worst sound, worst rules, worst live show, worst toys and gimmicks, worst layout, worst displays and animation's most unreliable game and worst game overall.
    61:23
    This year we want some more stuff if possible, and I don't know, maybe if people don't want to vote for something like Worst Light Show, I don't think anyone really gives a crap about The Light Show, right? Like, oh, this Light Show is... Oh, okay, no. I mean, if there was a game like Ghostbusters or something. Anyway.
    61:40
    New, maybe like the worst bang for buck, like maybe like the biggest rip-off pimble, like, you know, Mafia I don't know Worst reveal Yeah Okay The worst way To announce A game How about Worst person In pinball We can call that The J-pop award Oh No The Mike No J-pop's a great guy What are you talking about Welcome back I want to interview him One day Marty You have to be nice to him when he releases Magic Girl, the reimagining, the more 3D Magic Girl. Do you know what? It's funny. I was talking about that literally last night. That Magic Girl has got to be a Dead, Deep Root launch title. It's got to be. What do you reckon? Yeah, sure. He's probably already mentioned it, but I just, you know, I've forgotten, but... Yeah, I mean, he mentions a lot of things. I don't know whether people believe it anymore.
    62:38
    Yeah, everyone just wants to see what they got. Show me what you got. I got... Anyway, do you reckon that the Beatles floating heads kind of look like that guy? Like the four Beatles heads on the back of us? It's true. That's what I think. They're all saying at the same time when you're playing pinball. Show us your skills. Play better. Rick and Morty reference for everyone, by the way. When is the next Rick and Morty series out? Surely it's got to be soon. Oh, my dear. He's too busy doing podcasts. Fucking podcasts. Come on. You have a podcast out every week, Marty. Do you know what? I mean, talk about, like, you know, everyone's a bit, you know, a bit antsy at the moment and touchy, you know. A lot of drama in the pinball world. Do you know what their latest podcast is called? What's that?
    63:22
    Harmontown. It's Soft on Hitler, Hard on Dicks. Anyway, so that's Dan Harmon, the guy, the creative genius behind Rick and Morty. Yep, excellent. So back to the twerpies. Twerpies, we want category submissions. So please email us at head2headpinball at tumor.com or you can use the contact form on our website and let us know if there's a special category that you want.
    63:53
    Because, oh, let's get in early. Let's just do it early and let's get the twerpies started maybe in a week or so.
    64:00
    Really? And I just, okay, actually, wait, let's give it a year out. Well, you're going to do it the start of next year. Yeah, we've got nothing to fucking say over Christmas. We remember. We've seen the stats from last year. There's nothing going on around that time. Yeah, exactly. So nobody's going to care about, like, no one's going to listen to us doing the twerpies. I think that's a good thing. No, we're doing this early. Fuck you, Marty. I'm the one who did all the Google forms and stuff. No, we're not. We are.
    64:27
    Fight, fight, fight. Email us in. I just don't want Beatles to get unnecessary votes if it was just revealed. Fair enough. Anyway.
    64:43
    24 hours at the scrotum, Marty. Just thought that now. Oh, God, I'm funny. I think so. What is it? 24 hours at the sanctum was actually what was written on the show notes, Ryan. I don't know where you're from. I'm not even sure where I'm from. So, where was it at? Was it like Cincinnati or something? Yeah. I think it was above New York. 24-hour tournament. This is the big tournament, the 24-hour one. It sells out every year. A hundred people compete. Really what they're competing with is to stay awake. did you see uh did you see the live stream thing that Steve Baden did before it started no okay Ron Howlett from the Slantfoot podcast was on the waiting list and I think it was like number 13 or something and two people didn't rock up and he sat there and he read out all the names and someone said yep I'm here he's like cool you're in and then he read out like it must have been like 10 more names and if it was any other person then Ron wouldn't have made it in but they got all the way to Ron and he was like, all right, I guess I'm playing. He was there to film and he wanted to make this little mini documentary or some crap like that. But anyway, Ron Hallett went in. I think he did pretty bad. But Jeff did good. Jeff Siolis. Bruce did good. And it was won by Steve. Sorry.
    66:16
    John Gerrans. Yeah, he had a pretty bad start, but he came back. But, man, Bowen was on fire. He won by heat. Yeah, man He was on top the whole time I think he could have bowed out of the last two rounds And he still would have won So Anyway We were going to get Ron to come on the show Because he wasn't going to play But we did get our friend Mr. Petey Pinsider Pinside Petey To do a bit of roving reporting Cool He'll never get tired Oh, he'll never get tired as in Yeah, because he's, you know at the sanctum.
    66:57
    So I'm going to play this little interview that he did with a couple of people there, Marty. Cool. Pinty Petey here, live reporting for one of these loser podcasters. Anyway, I'm talking to some of the players here at this scrotum or sanctum or whatever the hell it's called. It's a 24-hour challenge. What's this guy's name? He's got an orange shirt on. Generation X Wong. Is that your name? No, it's Gene X Wong. You're from San Francisco, aren't you? Oh, yeah. Yep. You play at that city champ? Oh, yeah. It's at Freegal Watch every year. It's coming up this December in a few weeks. Yeah, I'd go, but it's just, you know, I'd probably win and give somebody else a chance to win. That's very generous of you, but it's already sold out anyways. Oh, well, I can come if I want. You know who the hell I am? Uh, you're Pinside Petey. You're damn right I am. And I'm not playing this stupid 24-hour tournament. It's too short. I need something longer. This is for wusses. Wusses are big camera. Oh, I like to take photos of, you know, the action. and I could take some of you if, you know, might need to use a couple filters or some retouching maybe, but it could make you look pretty nice, actually. Oh, really? Do you have a filter to fuck off? Here's another guy at the 24-Hour Sanctum. His name is Chuck Webster, and he's from here. He's one of those chowderheads. You ran the trash talker invitational, didn't you? Yes, I did, Petey. With all the podcasters. There wasn't a lot of blood. I would have liked to need some weapons. Well, next time you bring a weapon, you're welcome to come, but you wouldn't qualify for the tournament, Petey. Why? Because you're just not that good. Oh, really? Has anybody ever told you you talk funny? Me? Talk funny? Well, let me just say, I think it's bullshit that the head-to-head guys won. It should have been Mrs. Penn. Mrs. Penn put up a good battle there, but she didn't win. She's the only winner in that group.
    68:41
    Not this time. Oh, fuck off. All right, here's the last of the losers here at the 24-Hour Sanctum. Oh, look at this. Florence Nightingale. Yes. Hey, Pentaipedia, it's Bruce Nightingale. Is it really, though? It is. Are you making fun of me? No.
    68:59
    Aren't you the guy from that silver ball saloon? I am. Well, I just talked to Gene Daxson. He plays in a place called Gold Watch. Yours is only silver. Yours isn't that good. But I got silver balls, big boy. Silver balls. Creep factor, creep factor. So, you're the guy from that scam tit podcast, aren't you? Yes, we love the scam tits all the time. But no, it's called Slam Tilt Podcast. Has anybody ever listened? Yeah, a couple people, including you, it sounds like.
    69:27
    If I want to try to go to sleep. Oh, yes. Well, guess what, Petey? You know, we're busy here. We're really busy. But guess what? What? Fuck off.
    69:38
    And you know that was legit and at the same time, because you can hear the echo, right? So you know it's legit.
    69:43
    What the hell is that? I don't know what it's called. I love Pinside Petey. What's chowderhead, Marty? I don't know. Let's have a look at it up, you know, whilst we're here. Chowderhead.
    69:57
    It sounds like a funny insult that you probably get it. It's a mispronunciation of jolterhead, a derivative of the 16th century insult jolthead, before being extended to a thick-headed person.
    70:12
    I thought chowder was like some type of cheese, like you're a cheesehead. All right. Joltheads. You're chowderheads. All right. There must be something to do with where they come from that they call them chowderheads for some reason. Who knows? I'm sure someone will email in. Yeah, awesome. So there you go. And we asked a question on Facebook, what would be enjoyable for 24 hours, and we got nothing. I mean, we got the answers. Like, sleeping is the one that I agree with. Someone said, anything that's addictive. That was from Richard. I'm like, yeah, but what's addictive that could be fun for 24 hours? It's not pinball. Like, you can watch Jesse Olsen's video, and he goes to Tim Sixson, he's like, hey, how you going, Tim Sixson? And he's always happy. Oh! He's always happy. He's just like... I saw that! He's like... But he just gave evil to me. Yeah. No, not evil, it was just... No, it was like, don't interrupt me. No, like, I've given up on life. Everyone's just tired and cranky as fuck. No, but that was at the start. That's like, they'd only been, like, six hours in. Okay. So... Okay, I watched the one that was further. Anyway. I think it was Timmy just going, get away, I'm not in the mood. Okay. Is it time for... What do you want to talk about? Sling spots? Ah, sling spots. Yep. Sorry.
    71:28
    Sorry, I'm reading my show notes. I got them this week, the sling spots. Yes, you can have some of mine because I got like eight of them. I will give you some. Basically, it's... Well, you know, you've got Pinsadium lights. You don't need them. Not on all my machines.
    71:46
    Okay. what machines do you not have consignals? Just Lord of the Rings. Yeah. Okay, they'll fit on the Lord of the Rings. I was getting mine for Twilight Zone because it's so dark, but yeah, I didn't realize and I should have told him because he's like, hey, can you measure the hole for this, this and that? I'm just doing the final production run. So I was helping him out and then I didn't check underneath the play field and they kind of don't fit, but apparently I can zip tie them together, but the leaf,
    72:11
    sorry, I should start from the start quickly. These are spotlights that go underneath your slingshots to provide kind of like pin stadium lighting, but like a very small section of your playfield, just the area around the flippers.
    72:24
    But yeah, you need to basically take the slingshot switch off the bracket, put these in, slide it in, and then put it back on. But on twat zone, it is riveted into the bracket, so you can't do that. So I will give, I guess, my review next week when I find some time to do it. But yes, they look very good quality.
    72:45
    Social media watch. so we need to get a call out for that social media wants Jack Kimball I don't think they know how Pinside works Marty no they mustn't they really mustn't yeah I remember Charlie was like oh, I'm so proud, TNA is number one on Pinside. And what does everyone do? Everyone's like, TNA, shit, TNA. Yeah, you're going down. The Pinside PD Brigade basically comes with downvotes. So they, yeah, they stupidly announced that they are number two on the Pinside top 100. That was last week. And now 12.
    73:37
    It was going to happen. It was always going to happen. What else did we see this week on social media, Marty? Well, so we saw that apparently Bill and Ted is going to get a pinball adventure. Oh, my God. I love Bill and Ted. I watched that movie when I was a kid. Oh, it would make an awesome pinball machine. That and Big Trouble in Little China. Big Trouble in Little Chowder. Oh, there we go.
    74:07
    Yeah, like 99.9% sure this is just the troll, but... It really is. Somebody has got the picture and just pasted Stern's logo over the top and then, bang, it's out there.
    74:22
    So, you know what? It's free marketing though, right? Sure. You could bring up a company and say, hey, this is probably exactly how it worked out, Marnie. So Jodie Dankberg is on the phone to whatever studios that owns a Bill & Ted license and they're like, look, we've got a new movie coming out. It's going to be hot again. do you want to license our awesome IP for a pinball machine? And they're like, alright, can we get like two weeks to give you a yes or no? Can we get exclusive negotiation rights? I'm like, yeah, sure, no worries. And they're like, hey Deadflip, can you please release this image on your social media and gauge the reaction? So he releases it, it goes pinball viral, which is literally like a pin-sized thread with 100 posts and then deletes it, so it causes more speculation and then people let everyone know, like, they can't send a survey out, hey, would you like this gimbal machine? I don't think George Gomez is going to log into Pinside and say, hey, guys, what do you think about this? Hey, you guys. Hey.
    75:22
    So I was thinking, Marty, should we do the same thing? But, yeah, just something will happen. Something will happen, but we need all of our listeners to be in on it, right? Yep. Okay. Yeah. So we're going to release a picture for a little while on one of our social media accounts sometime this week.
    75:41
    Can someone please screenshot it? We will then take it down and start a Pinside thread and just see how, you know. I know we have a decent amount of listeners, but I truly like a very small portion of Pinside users. So I just want to see how far this will go. Yep. Okay. And don't spoil the party. Just be in on it. Yeah. Like, be fun. Be Debbie Downer. Exactly. Hi. What else? Colour DMD have announced their next title, Ryan. Their 81st title, in fact. Who done it, baby?
    76:17
    I think this will look good. It does surprisingly have cool dance, especially when you choose who's the murder person and then it does that cool thing where you're on the roof and it kind of pans out. Yeah, yeah. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do. Oh, I love that. it's actually one of the most dramatic pieces of music in pinball. Doesn't it start like a 50 million hurry up or something? Yeah, and it comes out. But the music and everything and lights are flashing and it's like, oh, fuck, I've got to do something.
    76:46
    That's another thing that's missing from Deadpool at the moment. No, I've been playing a decent amount of Whirlwind this week and it's just like, there isn't much to this game code-wise, but what it, like that multiball, it just, here it comes the start of it it's so well choreographed so fucking good anyway um thumbs up 100 last week money yeah so last week was rocking Bullwinkle versus Farfella yep you had the much better gift you had two guys touching their nipples that's hilarious yeah it's true I know it was hilarious as well I had a girl giving a fake handshake Sex and pinball, come on Exactly Me too, I want some No, I don't know Are you drunk tonight, Matty? I am So it's a public holiday tomorrow Ah, okay, alright For those people that actually have a day job I work for myself, and I'm, yeah, I'm on US time You work whatever fucking hours you want Anyway, so Rocky and Bullwinkle, you got 42 votes. I got 34 votes. You got 55%. I got 45%. What of it? Two in a row. What of it?
    78:06
    And tell us the truth now, mate. You would rather play Rocky and Bullwinkle, obviously. Yeah, absolutely. I fucking love the thing. But the things I said about it... Liar, liar, liar. But the things I said about it last week were actually true. They did not sample anywhere near as many call-outs as they should have. and it gets really repetitive. Oh, my God. If I hear that one more time. And that's one of the best parts of the show. But when you hear it on repeat, what does it actually say? I don't know, because I don't know. Wrong hat. Oh, wrong hat. Okay. Yeah. Nothing up the sleeve.
    78:40
    Anyway, one of my absolute, absolute favourite shows. And the layout is a bit awkward. You sound like you watched a lot of TV as a kid, Marty, and you've made up for it as an adult by watching, like, no movies.
    78:54
    Like, Thunderbirds, you know, Rocking Bullwinkle, like, you just watch a lot of TV, right? Yeah, okay. You ready? Yeah. It's a really simple explanation. Yeah, the internet didn't exist. No. When I was a kid, all I had was fucking school.
    79:12
    Right? Fucking school. I went to school, you know? And I hated school. And it's really funny because, don't tell anyone, I hope they don't listen, but my oldest daughter, she hates school. And I just look at her and I go, you are so me. I get why you hate school, because it's fucking boring. So we watched a lot of television. And I was from a big family of kids. We were sort of out and about, but we watched a lot of television before school and after school. So as I became an adult, I barely watch TV now, or movies because I just out doing things and I had school there now I got work and I just don have as much time as I would like You love work though Marty don you Yeah, I actually do really love my work. Okay. Yeah, there you go. Just a deeper insight into Marty's life. He likes work. I do like work. Yeah. Okay. I work with good people, so there you go. Hi, Luke. Please generate a number from 100 to 200. Coming right up.
    80:17
    143. Centaur 2. Is Centaur 2 just Centaur with a different cabinet? Yep. Oh, that's easy. Yep. Your favourite fucking game, Marty. No, it's not. How dare you? Yeah, hi. No, it's not. But next week I'll tell you, I love Centaur. Even those orbs. Every time I go to the Rocktown Arcade, I smash that game. I get the highest score every fucking year on Centaur. Because I love the game. I haven't got a custom t-shirt made. Sorry, I've got to save this for the argument. Okay.
    80:51
    You're going down, Marty. Please generate a number from 100 to 200. Coming right up. Got to get me good by now.
    81:04
    103. Ooh. Corvette. Love it. One of my favourite games. Okay. Yep. This is just a sensational game. George Gromace's first game, isn't it? Yes. Yep, his crowning achievement. Okay, you ready? Yeah. Okay. So, let's talk about Corvette. So, you know, for years, Corvette, like the car, has, you know, it's delivered what drivers like. So, you know, speed, performance and excitement. And this pinball follows that same over-the-top tradition.
    81:37
    Plenty in this powerhouse to catch the eye of Corvette fans. Oh. Pinball diehards are like, all right, let's forget the flyer. I've played this a lot Have you Ryan? I've played it Anyway Yep He hasn't played it I also haven't played From the Birds of Marty But I know what I feel about that Yeah fair enough Okay So this was a great You know First game by George Gomez And This was probably I'd say Probably his fastest game Would be Johnny Mnemonic But this would be a close second This is a very Fast Flowy game It's got modes It's got great multi-balls. It's got this engine. I think it's the LT5 engine, just off the top of my head, that you put the ball in and you can sort of move it back and forth and it revs and it makes noise. And you've got the two cars on the right-hand side, like a physical model of two cars, where you flip the flippers and you do actually a drag race. It's got great sounds. It's got great rules.
    82:36
    Guys, Corvette. Corvette is a much better game than Sentai. I can tell you now. Okay. Centaur. Now, I'm doing Centaur 2, but it is pretty much the exact same game, just in a different cabinet, because I have a bunch of cabinets left over. Even in its slightly uglier cabinet, okay, it is still a better game than Corvette, because this game, when it came out, Marty, 1980... 1983, so far ahead of its time compared to the Stern Electronics games, and I know this would be your argument versus... Oh, it totally is, by the way. Yeah, Quicksilver and stuff, because Stern back then were cheaping out, and they weren't pushing the boundaries, right? They were just, oh, keep telling me heaps of stuff about Stern, because I'm going to need that for when I'm on Fram 2.
    83:23
    But, Sentai, such unique rules, right? Yes, you only have two flippers, but you have five ball multiball. What? That might be normal now, but back in 1983, that shit blows your fucking mind, Marty. five ball multi-ball in a game where, you know, Stern was struggling to even put two alls in their game. So very unique rules, Marty, like the four bank drop targets with a little gap in the middle where if you spell it in order, you can pretty much start a multi-ball. Orbs, right? And if you don't do it in order, or if you get the ball up top and you don't get into the lanes, it's just like try again, human. And you love that call out so much, Marty, that you got a custom T-shirt made just for that. so Marty loves this fucking game. Wrong call out but anyway keep going. Yeah something similar to that.
    84:13
    The art hey if you're into art amazing black and white with red it's people love the black and white Twilight Zone well hey they did it 25 years ago was it 35 years ago just an amazing game overall there's no one thing you can do to score like in some of the certain games like stars you know hit the five stars and light special were really good. This, for its time, had very innovative rules, and, once again, Marty loves it. Now, Marty, as painful as it's going to be, tell me why Centaur 2 is a shit game.
    84:49
    Oh, I'm going to talk about Corvette, and why Corvette's a better game. Okay, yeah, you can do that. No, I'll tell you what.
    84:57
    Your Centaur 2 is the super LE of its time. There's actually nothing on it, anything more than the standard Centaur. They ran out of Rapid Fire. Well, Rapid Fire was like a ball-bearing type game that they produced, and it absolutely bombed. So they had all the cabinets left over. So, therefore, they used them for Centaur 2, 8-Ball Deluxe, like a special edition, and I think Pac-Man 1, Mystery was a Pac-Man, and the price went up. So you're actually paying for the same game. We're not in 1983 Marty. And right now, they get Gokomor and it's the same game. And you know what? A bit of colour on the playfield wouldn't a second hurt. Seriously.
    85:48
    I'll actually tell you the biggest problem with Santa right now is that whenever you see one, if you ever do see one, they're never in good condition. The build quality was terrible.
    86:01
    Okay. We always talk about, Marty, like, how do you judge a pinball machine? And I think you said as early as, like, last week or the week before, you have to judge it based on what pinball machines were out at the time, right? I've never said that. Yeah, no, you do. I said about, like, Stern Grand Prix, I'm like, well, it's actually not a bad game. You're like, yeah, but there were other games coming out at the same time that were better, like Lord of the Rings, Since the Duel Party, et cetera. So, centre, for its time, amazing, out of this world. Corvette, for its time, okay? This is when Bally Williams was producing games like Adam's Family and such classics as Roadshow, I shouldn't have said Roadshow, Twilight Zone, just the classics of the 90s. You hate both those games, so bad argument. Keep going. George Gomez is the only guy, I think, that's still around from this team, because he said himself it was a new team, kind of like Iron Maiden, and everything kind of aligned with that. I don't think things really align with this, because you've got guys like Bill Grump, Tom Urban, Dan Hughes, Eugene Gere, Scott something, Paul Hitch, and Vince Pontarelli. Do you know any of those names, Marty?
    87:14
    Yeah, I do. So Scott, for example, Scott Slomani, he's been involved in Black Rose, Bram Stover's Dracula, Corvette, Christian of the Black Lagoon Demoman Dirty Harry Doctor Who Fishtails Indiana Jones Pimple Adventure the one that you like that's animation okay that's animation right so no you're trying to call out these random names going I don't know these people well they did Star Trek Next Generation T2 Addams Family Flintstreet Getaway Party Zone Pimple Circus there you go Shadow Twilight Zone Whitewater and World Cup Soccer so shittest argument ever everybody you've got to vote for me because his argument is just falling apart. Okay, and what did that guy do? Like his centaur too, which falls apart. Marty, tell everyone what that guy did on the machine. Just dots. No one gives a shit about the dots, Marty. That's not why you buy a game. You get the biggest wood about dots. I get wood about sounds, Marty. Anyway, Corvette. Toys and gimmicks, Marty. That racetrack. You mentioned it like it's off the fly, like it's something good. It takes up half, like a chitload of the playfield and adds... half and it doesn't take up half. Well, I can exaggerate like you exaggerate. It takes up 95% of the play sales and adds no enjoyment at all. Two cars racing each other. Cool the first time you see it, Marty. After that, not so much. And it's a blatant rip-off of future guests of the show because of Francie with those hexagons in the middle. Come on. You can't just put 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. You can't put 9 hexagons when Francie put like 1,000, right? You can't just put 9. 24 years ago absolute rip off George Gomez ripped off Chris Fanchi like 23 years in the future George Gomez has a time machine Marty why do you think he looks so cool George Gomez is a genius and his design was ahead of its time is what I'm hearing you say okay well you're going to lose three weeks in a row Marty so enjoy that come on guys call that he's going to give me a shit gif call that Marty it's literally like the Mustang, a better racing theme. Grand Prix, NASCAR, Dell Junior, better racing theme than this. This is down the bottom of the list. So then why is it 103 on the top 200 and your one 103? Because every... Why? It is one of the lowest, Marty, because sold state machines don't do well on the pin slide top 100. We've already discussed that. So there you go. The 90s Bally Williams era, that is probably like the second lowest out of all those games. All my good friends from Pinside, I love you. You know I have only said good things about Pimple at Pinside. Those people that have voted for Corvette on Pinside, I need you now. Vote for me. Social justice.
    90:05
    Pimple ending. What did he call himself? Anyway, that's Slams Up 100. That will be on Facebook midweek, and you can vote for who had the best argument. Which no one ever does No one Yeah Just the better game Which will be centre You can't Yeah You win You lose or win Regardless Alright This week in pinball What did we do Ryan? Well we talked about Pistol Alley before And You know I had a really fun night I came Third In the end So this is a Triple strike elimination Head to head Yeah I came fifth I was really happy With how I played Except for that last match on Iron Maiden where I got nothing started and then tilted out right before I started multi-ball. We had a match together on Guardians. That was fun for me because I won. You know the fun part about that game, don't you? I know what you're going to say, Marty. I predicted it and I want to hear you say it, Marty. No, no, no. I want you to tell me. I was talking behind you the entire time. You weren't talking behind me. Yes. I was doing the pinball community a service. He's got multiple. Oh, and now if he does this, and oh, he's got to shoot the right round. I mean, fuck off. I'm trying to play a fucking game. I don't need you in my ear commentating my game. Is that why you lost, Marty? Yep.
    91:24
    Well, no. Where were your headphones, Marty? Where were your trusty headphones? Do you know what? As soon as I arrived, I went, oh, damn it, I wish I brought my headphones. But, do you know what? I lost that game, but I had a pretty good comeback. So I was pretty happy with how, like, I was on, like, 2 million on the last ball and ended up on, like, 75 mil. So I was happy with that because you were over 100 mil.
    91:48
    By the way, I wasn't trying to put you off. As you know, I was explaining the game rules to someone so I can increase everyone's knowledge and further the pinball community, right? Yeah.
    92:00
    Probably just not with the foghorn voice. It's quite loud there. It's quite loud. Your voice is, yes. Just admit once that when I beat you, Marty, it says I played better. And when you beat me, it's because you played better. That's what they were better at. You actually played. You fucking blew up that machine. It was freaking awesome to watch. Oh, that's true. I wouldn't call $130 million a ball up, but anyway. Well, compared to everybody else playing that game. But here's the thing. It didn't really matter. Had I won that tournament, it wouldn't have made any difference to my rating. Yeah. It's worth more. Yeah. 40% TTP. You don't really need more points. Hey, guess what? This may be happening next year, Marty. I will prematurely say it so that it puts the pressure on Luke to implement it. Sure. Statewide rankings. Yeah, great. How fucking fun would that be if you're rated second in Victoria and I'm rated third? That's probably way too high, but I'm like, I'm going to catch a bit. No, because I think I am third in Victoria. Okay, I'd be like 15th or something. But what I'm saying is it'd be so much fun to have just ratings against just... And this already exists in the US. And I don't, you know, nothing to do with the whole dollar thing and eliminating ACS. Just, you know, the top 32 get to play a tournament at the end of the year. And, you know, the winner is crowned. And 30 of them are from Queensland. Yep.
    93:31
    Sorry. Yeah. It would only be for tournaments inside. Yeah, that's right. No, I get it. Yeah. You have to do it. Yeah. Anyway, that'd be fun. I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. Good.
    93:43
    What else did we do? Okay, and yeah, I came over and we filmed the installation video for the Monkey Witch, the Monkey Mod, which is now sold out, Marty. It's sold out because of us, Marty, because of us. Well done. Awesome. He's rich now, millionaire. Yep. So I now have a Monkey Mod on my Wizard of Oz and God, it's good. Like, it's really good. It's just, I don't know. It's not like, oh, all of a sudden I've got a brand new machine. but you just look at it and you just think, what a clever guy for coming up with this. Like, it's just really good. Yeah.
    94:19
    No need to show it, Marty. It's already sold out. We collected our checks. It actually just looks great. And the best part of it was you installed it. I didn't have to touch it. You filmed it. Yeah, sure. Fair enough. And your Lord of the Rings is now fixed. Yes, you fixed my Lord of the Rings. Oh, well, it's not really fixed. What's happening? the opto on the sword ramp is still not working and ah you forgot to tell me to check that out no you checked it out ah ok yes and it was yeah it was working and I went ah damn it it's not going to work now but anyway just remind me next time I'm over there just resolder the opto pins anyway so there you go my machines are now great and so I got to kill the ring or whatever destroy the ring kill the ring yeah kill the ring done Do you enjoy destroying the ring money? It's one of my favourite things to do. After a few drinks, you like to destroy the ring? No, not even drinking. Okay. I sold Whirlwind this week. It wasn't my machine. It was a mate's, and I was just meant to lend it for a couple of weeks and sell it. And it took about 30 seconds to sell, maybe a whole 30 seconds to sell. And I was like, man, why doesn't anyone want to buy this Stern Grand Prix? Can that please sell out in 30 days?
    95:36
    Yeah. Sometimes you don't know when you list a pinball machine up, like, what price to list it. So we just, like, he took a little bit of a haircut on it, and it just went like that. And then someone else messaged me, like, hey, if the sale falls through, I'll take it for that amount.
    95:51
    Well, people love it, Marty. Awesome. And, Marty, what's my name? Ryan C. Private Ryan C to you, Marty. Private Ryan C, because I am now an official Stern Army member. Awesome. How cool is that, Marty? So cool. It's great. I don't know what it means. I think I just have to say that Cern is the best now. Do you have a Cern Army dog tag?
    96:15
    It's in the mail. Mm-hmm. Okay. How did you get yours, Marty? Ah, see? There you go. First person in Australia, Cern Army dog tag. What's your ranking, Marty? That's not important. Exactly. You're just a peasant. I'm a private, Marty. Private. Yeah. Where's your dog tag? It's all on my phone. Where is it? because you've got no evidence except you stating it. Well, I'm the Prime Minister of Australia.
    96:43
    Don't have a badge, but I'm telling you. Anyway, so yeah, Pinball Paradise is now a Stern Army location.
    96:56
    I'm not sure if it'll be... I don't think it'll be the next time they're coming up, but maybe there's a frenzy that'll be running soon. Yes, it'll be the Stern Army. Awesome. Yes. What did you get for this big money? I hope you get a free pinball machine out of that. I'm pretty sure that's how it works. You just chill, stern, and they send you free pinballs. Yep. I'll take one Beatles, thanks. Diamond edition. Thank you. Show me what you got.
    97:20
    So, I've got to tell you, I streamed last night, and I streamed... Okay, we've talked about this before. I streamed Phantom Roses. Now, this is the fourth time I've streamed this machine. The very first time, the plunger stopped working. The second time, the flippers stopped working. the third time, the glass shattered. It was that Guns N' Roses. So I finally got to play it again. This time it worked all night. And just beautiful to look at. Super strong flippers.
    97:50
    It's, you know, Data East get a bad rap, but there's games like Guns N' Roses that, you know, a nice little beacon in an otherwise bleak world of Data East machines. It's a great game. and it's pretty much like new right it looks new it looks and plays new yes the guy who owns it Jeff restores him all machines for a living so it's going to be good yes it really is but you know he spent years getting this to where it is and it looks spectacular and so the theme of the night was Battle of the Bands so then we went over to Aerosmith and really got to deep dive into the new Aerosmith code which I hadn't done. I played it in tournament match play, but really didn't really get that much of a feel to check out the rules.
    98:40
    Again, I've... And I said it on the night. I said, Aerosmith shouldn't have been... It just shouldn't have been anywhere near the good machine that it is. The thing... You know?
    98:56
    The theme or the game itself? Everything. You just don't like it. I just, I've got enough Lonnie DeBrock games in my life that I don't need another one. That's why at least Guardians of the Galaxy changed it around enough that you can use your brain, but in Aerosmith, I feel like it's just, you know, a copy and paste, and they modify it enough to make it seem original. Mm, okay. Now, I'm one of the people that says I really like it, and I just didn't think I would. I didn't like the theme. I really like what they've done with the art. It looks great. It plays great. and the new rules are fantastic. So, there you go. I like it. I've gotten already that I'm a Stern Army representative. Yeah, that's right. Eris is amazing, man. Yeah. Now, bad luck. If you want it. We're editing that out. No, it's fine. It's fine. I've turned the corner, Marty. Why, Eris? Like, in the last 15 seconds. Yeah, I've realised my responsibilities as a Stern Army private member. Stern Shill Army. That's what it is. Gary Stern's pointing me, and he says, I want you. So here I am. I, Aerosmith, is amazing. Unique rules. Multi-ball all day long. Awesome. Love it. Make sure it's at least five balls. Yep. Get your bonus. Mm-hmm. Super jackpot. Hit the VIP pass. Super ramps all day long. Get into the wizard mode. Yeah. Great. Aerosmith. Awesome. Okay. Can we go to the mailbag?
    100:27
    Sure. Oh, well, quickly before that. There are a lot of tournaments coming up, Marty, in December in Melbourne. We're in a weird patch right now where someone fucked up and there's no tournaments for like two and a half weeks or something in Melbourne. So we're going to be sitting here flipping out. Yeah, anyway. At the start of December, Marty, you've got the big Flibout tournament. So Flibout is Melbourne's big convention thingy for pinball. Well, I'm hoping it's going to be probably one of the biggest ones that we've had in Melbourne. That's what I'm hoping. and the big one is and I don't think people realise this I may have mentioned it before but I'm just going to say it now there is a flip frenzy on the Saturday night and every single machine that is there will be in the flip frenzy so if you're there and you're not in the flip frenzy tournament, you can't play any games they've all been used so you'd kind of want to get your ticket for flip frenzy wouldn't you think, Ryan? Otherwise, the spectators can be there, but you can't play. Yeah. And Flip Frenzy is basically just playing pinball for three hours straight. Correct. On all the machines. And there's got to be like 50 machines there or something, so we can have like, let's try and break the record for Flip Frenzy. It's like 122 people or something, right? Yeah, let's do it. Let's see what we can do.
    101:47
    A week after that, there's going to be a massive tournament, a massive weekend of tournaments, sorry, in NIL? Is that how you say it? NH? It is real. It's about a four-and-a-half-hour drive northwest of Melbourne. It's sort of on the way to Adelaide. Yeah. Literally, between Adelaide and Melbourne, there's a little town, and a bunch of awesome guys have a pinball museum there with, I don't know, 25, 30, 35 machines, a lot. And apparently they're all in amazing condition. Michael Casales has organized a weekend there.
    102:20
    I'm not sure if I can make it because it is literally in between these massive tournaments. I don't think I can do three weeks in a row. But the week after, I'm doing the Pinball Paradise for Frenzy. Sorry, during the week. And then the next weekend will be Hatchman's Party, possibly my tournament after that. So just huge tournaments in Melbourne. Big whoppers to be had. Loves me a big whopper. I'll link the Neil one in the show notes if people are interested in that because the place is also a hotel, motel thingy. So you can pretty much go there for the weekend and play pinball all weekend long. Cool. I'm hoping to get there. Cool.
    103:00
    All right. Shall we go to the mailbag? Sure. You can read that first one. Shimmy. This one's from Shimmy. I love the idea from your emailer for the pinball theme around particle colliders. I immediately imagined two side-by-side Williams getaway style superchargers that accelerate two separate balls. you have to get the timing just right to eject and shoot them into each other to start a chain reaction that forms a black hole and follows up the Earth. So much scope.
    103:29
    I reckon a lot of pinheads do like science. There are so many science fiction themes. For example, Twilight Zone, Star Trek, Attack from Mars, Pinbot, Star Wars, Flash Gordon, Tron's name is few. And my opinion is that a lot of people who like science fiction like science. The opposite is certainly true. Thanks, Jimmy. Thank you, Jimmy. Next one, Crystal Gardner. Hello, Crystal. She writes in again. She says, can you please help me? I was playing Ghostbusters at a local pub, and all of a sudden, a frightening, shrieking scream came out of the machine. The entire pub went silent. I have no idea what I did to start that, but it was brilliant. I googled it, but no luck. Well, I wrote back to Crystal and said, that is what's called the annoying, random, shriek ghost from Ghostbusters that shits everybody.
    104:15
    It is polarizing. A lot of people do love it. It's on at Pinball Paradise, and when it goes off, half the people are like, yeah, that's fucking awesome. Half the people are like, throw it off the roof. We're not suckies.
    104:28
    And the last email is from Frank. He says, best casual sex dating all over the world in every town, www.shortforfree.us slash bestadultdating53809. So if you want to have casual sex, just visit that URL. That's the kind of email that we get. We get spammed so much shit. Anyway, there you go. Thanks, everybody, for listening. If you want to catch us, please go to our Facebook page, facebook.com slash head-to-head pinball, or just, you know, type in head-to-head pinball. Twitter's at h2hpinball. Email us at head-to-headpinball at gmail.com. Instagram's head-to-head pinball. Patreon. We've had some more Patreons this week as well.
    105:11
    Thanks, everybody, for your support. they got a sneak preview of the Joe Kamikau interview. So well done, son. Yeah, sometimes we do the interviews on the weekend right before we record our main show. We can't do anything about that. But if we interview in the middle of the week, then yes, we can share the episode early to our Patreon subscribers. So there you go. Thanks, everybody. We'll speak to you again next week. See you. Don't forget to email me to quote your submissions. Thank you. See you.
    105:40
    But in my opinion, that is a lot of people who like sci-fi. The opposite is... Sorry, let me say that again.
    105:48
    And in my opinion, is that... Okay, what? The opposite is certainly true. Okay. And my opinion is that a lot of people who like science... And in my... And my opinion... Yes, and my opinion is that a lot of people who like... Oh, fuck.
    106:18
    And my... You can put this all at the end, Marley, in the credits. Yes. And my... Oh, fuck, now I've got the giggles.