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Shoutouts, Booze, Mods, Hobbit and Deeproot!

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·May 1, 2019
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast ep.7: modding updates, streaming adventures, Metallica-to-Hobbit trade debate, and Deep Root hype speculation.

Summary

In episode 7 of Poor Man's Pinball Podcast (also called Tee'd Off), hosts Drew and Jon discuss their week of pinball activities, including streaming The Simpsons Pinball Party with Ryan (TurboGrafx7), heavily modding Jon's Monster Bash SE with aftermarket parts, and Drew's trade of his Metallica Premium Edition for a new Gold Smog Hobbit Standard Edition. The episode concludes with discussion of Deep Root Pinball's recent animated Raza trailer and speculation about their upcoming first release.

Key Claims

  • The Simpsons Pinball Party is ranked #17 on the Pinside Top 100

    high confidence · Jon stated this while discussing the game after playing it on Ryan's stream

  • Plasma disc for Avatar Limited Edition is available aftermarket from LearMods for ~$80 and simply plugs into the board

    high confidence · Jon explained this discovery while modding Monster Bash SE; noted that Chicago Gaming Company gets them in bulk for ~$10

  • Metallica Premium Edition averages ~$6,400 in recent sales; Hobbit averages ~$7,000 (Gold Smog up to $7,200-$7,300)

    medium confidence · Drew researched 10-15 sales for each machine on Pinside before deciding on the trade

  • Ryan's collection includes Dialed In SE, The Hobbit SE (Shane Black Axl Rose), The Lord of the Rings, The Simpsons Pinball Party, Metallica, Stern AC/DC, and a restored Demoman

    high confidence · Drew and Jon visited Ryan's basement on Wednesday and described the lineup in detail

  • Deep Root Pinball released a 30-second animated Raza trailer early in the week

    high confidence · Jon and Drew discussed the trailer; mentioned community criticism that it looked like Flash animation

  • Deep Root Pinball has indicated they have 12 Whitewoods, 100+ designers, and multiple animators working on their first release

    medium confidence · Jon paraphrasing Robert's (Deep Root founder) hype messaging; stated as opinion that this over-promising will disappoint when first machine releases

  • Deep Root Pinball plans to stick with Harry Williams cabinet design but with onboard playfield screen similar to Midway's Circus Voltaire approach

    medium confidence · Jon discussing Robert's stated intentions; Drew noted the aspect ratio of the Raza trailer indicates onboard screen placement

  • Michelle Bianchi (formerly NAVL van lines) now handles arcade/pinball shipping logistics and is frequently recommended on Pinside

    high confidence · Jon provided contact information for shipping specialist; has been mentioned in Pinside threads for 5+ years

Notable Quotes

  • “If Sam Stern were to make it today, they would charge 10 million dollars...That has Jersey Jack Pinball written all over it.”

    Jon @ ~18:00 — Explains the appeal of The Simpsons Pinball Party's design philosophy and manufacturing quality relative to modern premium pricing

  • “Jersey Jack Pinball, bro. It's a Jersey Jack Pinball. Actually, what? 27 inch TV, baby.”

    Jon @ ~54:00 — Summarizes the key selling points of The Hobbit that convinced him to trade his Metallica

  • “Deep Root is fucked. That's my opinion. Because no matter what they send out, right? Because Robert likes to jack up everyone's expectations.”

    Drew @ ~82:00 — Articulates skepticism about Deep Root's marketing approach and likelihood of community backlash upon release

  • “Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory taught us anything. You can't overhype shit like this because Pinside will tear you right back down to earth.”

    Drew @ ~85:00 — References recent over-hyped release and community's tendency to reverse initial hype once product ships

  • “The only thing I can think of...is Jersey Jack Pinball style pinball machine with mechs and stuff great art...and you can do it at a price under 7,000 that's radically changing shit for me”

    Jon @ ~95:00 — Defines what Deep Root would need to achieve to be genuinely innovative in the market

Entities

DrewpersonJonpersonScott IanpersonZach SharpepersonMatt ScottpersonRyan KuyperpersonEricperson

Signals

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Ryan's Demoman restoration dramatically changed the aesthetic and appeal of a typically beat-up 90s machine, convincing hosts that restoration is worthwhile investment for older titles

    high · Drew and Jon were shocked by the quality of the restored Demoman; Jon stated: 'So, folks, when you have a cool machine, shop it out, man...that was gorgeous. He sold me.'

  • $

    market_signal: Metallica Premium Edition and Hobbit Standard Edition trade values are closely comparable ($6,400 vs $7,000 average), with Gold Smog variant commanding premium ($7,200-$7,300)

    high · Drew researched 10-15 recent sales for each machine; provided specific price ranges to justify trade decision

  • ?

    community_signal: Ongoing Pinside discussions comparing Metallica vs Hobbit with mixed perspectives; some users report trading Metallica for Hobbit and keeping the latter

    high · Drew encountered 'raging debates' on Pinside; received testimonials from users who traded Metallica for Hobbit and preferred the latter

  • ?

    product_concern: Avatar Limited Edition plasma disc feature revealed to be easily obtainable aftermarket part (~$80) that was sold as premium feature ($1,500+ markup) without included instructions

    high · Jon discovered plasma disc board connector, researched LearMods availability, noted Chicago Gaming Company sources them for ~$10 in bulk; instructions were broken link

  • ?

    collector_signal: Gold Smog Hobbit variant is treated as special/limited with separate secondary market pricing tier; used at tournament (Texas and Midwest Gaming Classic) before being offered for trade

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.177

0:00
Welcome to the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, episode number 7. The only pinball podcast that is broadcast in 25 languages in 50 countries around the world. I am Drew, and across from me is the other guy that we love so much. Hey, it's Ian. Welcome to Poor Dick's. Poor Dick's Brokeback. Thanks, Zach. Thank you very much for that, buddy. But hey, man, good to be back. How you doing, Drew? I'm doing great. How long has it been? It feels like it's been a month. I don't know why it feels so long, but it just has. And we've been spending a lot of time together. Yeah, yeah, dude. We've been rocking and rolling in the arena of pinball, man. We've been very pinball-centric this week. We have, we have. What are you drinking today there, buddy? Today is going to be interesting. It's a little experiment to see if I can maintain my vocabulary. I'm doing a Red Bull Vodka's today. How about you? Same as last week. LaCroix, Kessler, Lime. You know me. I just like keeping it even keel. I don't know why we ask you this question every week. Let's skip it next week. No, we're not going to. But it's going to be the same answer. So what was this week fueled by, Drew? This week was filled by booze, Red Bull, piss, vinegar, you know, Ric Flair style Woo!
1:28
Man, we kicked it off last Monday For you guys who listened, we were pretty drunk on Monday I mean, more so than usual Not as much as episode 4, but it was a close second If we were 12 on that day, today I dialed it all the way back to like three. I mean, I'm literally having my first couple sips of booze as we speak right now. I'm proud of you, Drew. Oh, not be proud of me. I'm just, fuck me, I'm getting old.
2:07
It's not proud of you, and it's just sad. Yeah, I know. I know it, man. I felt it last week. Oh, man. I felt it in the editing room. Oh, Tuesday, yeah. I had to edit the piss out of that thing. We recorded, what, two hours? Hour and a half. Okay. Chopped it to about an hour. And there were literally a couple sections of five or ten minutes where we just said we wanted to use it, but it was just so terrible and so unusable that we just chopped it, right? Well, there were sections where there was no dialogue either. Like we both just stopped talking.
Even Steven
person
Chrisperson
Tim (Gordon Shumway)person
Michelle Bianchiperson
Robertperson
Wild Bill 327person
Mountain Gamerperson
Kong Huskerperson
Gordon Shumway (Tim)person
Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
TurboGrafx7organization
Kingpin Gamesorganization
Pin Stadiumorganization
LearModsorganization
Measle Modsorganization
Pin Graphicsorganization
Coin Takerorganization
Deep Root Pinballorganization

medium · Chris emphasized the machine was 'new out of box' with 'full warranty' and had been used at gaming classic; Gold Smog variants command $200-300 premium over standard

  • ?

    venue_signal: Chris at Kingpin Games operates machines at Texas and Midwest Gaming Classic, providing venue equipment that feeds secondary market

    medium · Chris offered Drew the Hobbit that 'had just been opened in March' and was used at 'Texas and Midwest Gaming Classic'

  • ?

    content_signal: Poor Man's Pinball expanded content strategy to include live Twitch streaming; successfully attracted notable community figures (Zach Sharpe, Matt Scott, Even Steven) to participate

    high · Drew and Jon streamed The Simpsons Pinball Party on TurboGrafx7 Wednesday night; multiple community personalities dropped by to support

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Deep Root Pinball founder Robert is being perceived as over-hyping expectations with claims about 12 Whitewoods, 100+ designers, and revolutionary features; hosts speculate this will lead to community disappointment upon first release

    medium · Drew: 'Deep Root is fucked...no matter what they send out...Robert likes to jack up everyone's expectations...everyone's going to go, ah, it's just a fucking pinball machine'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Deep Root's Raza trailer aspect ratio indicates onboard playfield screen design similar to Midway's Circus Voltaire, rather than backbox-based display

    medium · Jon: 'that ratio...indicating dude we're having this inside the cabinet'; Drew noted screen placement will be on playfield back similar to Circus Voltaire

  • ?

    technology_signal: Pin Stadium lights are becoming standard upgrade for aesthetic enhancement; multiple hosts and community members installing them; integration with UV/glow setups is creating customization variations

    high · Drew installing Pin Stadium lights on Monster Bash SE; Jon noted 'those Pin Stadiums...make just about every game shine' and discussed different integration approaches on Pinside

  • ?

    business_signal: Tournament-used machines entering secondary market shortly after event use; operators like Kingpin Games using events to generate trade-in/resale inventory

    medium · Hobbit was used at Texas and Midwest Gaming Classic in March, then immediately offered for trade by Kingpin Games operator Chris

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment toward The Hobbit has improved significantly as code has matured; older negative Pinside posts are less relevant to current game state

    medium · Drew noted: 'some of these comments were from a couple of years ago before the code had matured to where it is...Sure, sure'

    • 2:41
    So what do you think about that, Drew? And it was like silence, silence, silence. Silence. And then you were like, what? I was like, I don't know. Oh my god. Edit. For you guys who were listening last week, I'm sorry, not sorry. That was a good episode, though. We did. At the end, Ian actually, he's more critical of us or himself in general than I am. I think we suck. He's telling me how awful it was because I don't hear the final cut until he's done with it. He sent it to me and I thought it was good. Yeah, it was fine. What episode are we on now? Episode 7, huh? 7, man. Fuck yeah, episode 7. What did we do on Wednesday? Wednesday, we did some streaming with our friend Ryan. Anyways, TurboGrafx7 is his Twitch channel. T-U-R-B-O-G-R-F-X underscore 7. TurboGrafx7. So we streamed Simpsons Pinball Party. We broke our Twitch cherry. It was fun. It was a lot of fun. It was a blast. That was so much fun. That was part of our booze-fueled week. because crazy on that too he spilled a couple drinks on his floor listen i'm uh i'm a proud man but not that night i wasn't too proud that day the next morning i was like ah fuck did i really do that and he asked me and ryan was smiling the whole time ryan was a great host we had a lot of fun thank you ryan again ryan please invite us back yeah we had some guys comment on the stream which was pretty cool we had zach from straight down the middle broke dick mountain man himself we had a scott from pin stadium come by and drop off some bits that was cool to see scott and uh of course we got a shout out to uh steven from uh pinball undesirables he's the uh i i hear from ryan that he is the second worst pinball player on the stream so um ryan being a very proud number one last place kind of guy so uh so thank you very much steven for stopping by that was awesome yeah man that was that was a lot of fun dude it was it really was i want to stream again but i don't know if ryan's gonna invite us he'll invite us back i've i've talked to him since and and he said uh he had a great time and then we're welcome back all smiles man all smiles we had a lot of fun we did we did got rowdy it was a party it was a wednesday night party it was a fun wednesday night we streamed some pinball and we got to play something he's he's got an amazing lineup with some jersey jack games and simpsons pinball party as we did stream simpsons pinball party now i never played that game really and that was my first significant time on that game and man that game was fun just yeah fun good shots i mean there's nothing not good about that game i don't think anyone can nitpick anything no it is number 17 on the pin side top 100 yeah dude it shoots great it's got great rules uh good theme an upper play field that actually really i really like yes and we were we were both pissing on upper playfields the last couple of weeks and then ian and i both looked at each other when he asked me hey what do you think of that upper playfield it is fun yeah it's a good playfield man it's it's integrated very well into the game i like when the flipper flips a couple times just to let you know hey by the way there's a comment and you're like very cool fuck yeah let's do this and then that little dot screen that's up there the tv yeah yeah it's just just cool yeah yeah if stern were to make it today they would charge 10 million dollars oh my god there's way too many sculpts and cool things going on in that game that that has jersey jack written on it yeah it really does yeah yeah if it had a 27 inch tv i'd have figured jersey jack all the way that's such a great game yeah so whoever has it out there you are lucky owners that's for sure and if anyone's looking to sell one not not joking i'm i'm looking to buy one so let me know you can uh email me at poor man's pinball at gmail.com we got presents dude we do who gave us a present eric our guest from what was that episode four he had so much fun that he decided to give us presents he gave us presents He's dropped it off at my house. He told you not to open it until we were recording, right? He texted me. I was out to brunch with my wife. He basically says, dropping something off at your house, do not open it, but put it in the fridge.
    6:41
    Sounds like a bomb threat. I don't think it's a bomb threat. I think it was a box of scorpions. That's what I thought. I don't know. Anyway, let's open this bad boy up. We are opening it up. We're going to open it up live. That's what his request was.
    6:54
    It is beer can shaped. That is what I will say. exciting two brothers artisan brewing pinball blood orange pale ale that's a mouthful but uh that's very cool that's what she said oh here we go i got it pinball blood orange pale ale huh all right that's kind of it's kind of like saying our email address poor man's pinball at gmail.com poor man's pinball at gmail.com thank you eric is it a blood or is orange pale Blood Orange Pale Ale. I get it. I know. I don't know. Why did they? All right. Well, thank you, Eric. That is super sweet of you. I really appreciate it. He's very thoughtful. He always has been. That's awesome, Eric. So I appreciate you thinking about us. Oh, and on top, it says special when lit. How cool is that? Oh, I ruined it.
    7:47
    How come it doesn't say poor man's pinball? Oh, that's okay, though. All right. Well, thank you again, Eric. Eric almost bought out Lord of the Rings. He's been looking at... Oh, he was looking into shipping and then... The shipping part, and he got all freaked out because the first quote, it was from Milwaukee to... Was this St. Louis or Colorado? I don't remember. Let's just say Colorado. But it was like $600, right? Six, $700 for shipping. I don't know. And I always thought it was like $300, maybe $400. That's what I always hear. Yeah. Yeah, that's the rule of thumb. I did send him a couple of screenshots. Everyone on Pinside always talks about that. Her name's Michelle Bianchi. Okay. She's from, used to be the old NAVL something van lines, but now they have their own like arcade division. Oh, sweet. And she's been mentioned in the threads. I'm not kidding. Like for the last five years, she's, so they said, hey, here's her number. Call her. So anyways, I sent that information over. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see how that turns out. Well, if he's got the cash, you can't go wrong with Lord of the Rings. No. First pin. No. Fuck off, man. That's a great first pin.
    8:49
    Jealous already. Eric. No shit. you are the man thank you very much again we will be drinking those guaranteed all right awesome well let's uh move on i had a busy week this week what did i do pinball related pinball pinball pinball i uh decided since i was keeping monster bash se that i was going to make it my own you know keep it in bolted to the floor it's staying it's staying for the long haul So I opened up the checkbook and we modded the fuck out of it this week. What did we do, Drew? We did all sorts of stuff. We did the Plasma Disc. You got to have that. LE Owners, just cover your ears. We got to drop a little nugget for you. Ian literally just told me about this five minutes ago. And I thought this was the biggest sham of all time.
    9:40
    Go ahead. Sorry, sorry. I'm not going to steal your thunder. It sucks for the LE Owners. Ellie Owners, if you bought that game just for the plasma disc, which I know you didn't. You got the top or you got the armor, all that stuff. Yeah, try to make them feel better. Yeah, that plasma disc, you buy that aftermarket, it literally just plugs into the board where it says plasma disc. The board says all the same. So those poor bastards over there. I was like, no way. That can't possibly be. They didn't even include instructions. I know. And then I looked, I saw plasma disc. I was like, no, it can't be that easy. We shouldn't be shocked. And, you know, it's not just Stern, you know, doing this, you know, penny pinching. But, yeah, so they have this, what did you say, it costs like $80 or whatever. Yeah, I think I got that one from, I know LearMods makes it. Sure. So thank you, LearMods. I appreciate you. And, you know, CGC is just getting these things in bulk for like $10 a pop. Right. And then they're going to say, well, this is going to be an extra $1,500, sir or ma'am. Sure, sure. Thank you. Oh, man. I know. I was like, that can't be that easy. I'm like, because it didn't include instructions. I go underneath I'm like if this isn't dreadfully obvious I'm fucked because it says look at their website for instructions and I looked and there was just a broken link so I was like well that sucks noticed my surprise when I saw plasma disc right on that is pretty good that is awesome thank you again CGC and LearMods what else did I do I got the plastics the playfield plastics the protectors So, um, for measle mods. So thank you very much. Those actually do look as cool as they do in the pictures. I was a little hesitant, but the price was right. So we got some of those in there. We also got the, uh, the webbing on the flippers. Oh, the spider webs, the flipper caps. What do you think of those? I think they're generally, I don't care for them, um, in general, but I think those look really good. Yeah, they do. They do. They're simple. They're pretty, pretty clean. uh also got the side blades from pin graphics um and um yeah so just want to thank coin taker uh pin graphics uh measle mods and leer mods so uh we have a few things coming being shipping um looking for some of the stand-up target i got some little decals for those and what else do i have oh scott from pin stadiums hooking me up i had the pin stadium lights on my black rose but uh he helped me out uh kind of converting it to a monster bash se so a little bit a little bit of uh tweaking there but badass dude it's it's it's looking beautiful i can't wait for the pin stadiums to get on there oh yeah no those pin stadiums uh you know make just about every game shine what uh where are you hooking those pin stadiums up to the flashers oh yeah it's got to be frankenstein's tesla coils okay it's got to be because i have the uv glow on it yep so everything's gonna just go with that kind of glow you know it's interesting to me whenever you go on those threads like i'm pin side or whatever everyone has such a different opinion about you know where it's in yeah yeah just you know yeah which which gi light which you know all these different because you can literally plug it in anywhere so right well no i get you man but yeah so thank you everybody um the game now is looking completely awesome so i played it again today and i was like man as if it didn't look awesome before but no it looks really sharp dude it looks it looks 10 times better and i uh i love it so awesome i'm glad it's staying i'm happy for you and i'm glad it's staying because you know i get to play this game every week and you know it's just one of those games that you just it's just fun for you know one of those short game type games fuck yeah it's fun woo rick flair's back woo the red bull kicked in buckle up kids we're having fun today All right. So that's my pinball story for this week. Modding the shit out of my machine. I love it. So, Drew? Well, you have a very happy pinball story for the week. I have a bittersweet pinball story for the week.
    13:45
    Womp, womp, womp. What do you got? No, it's not a bittersweet. It is bittersweet. It's bitter, but I'm happy. It's bitter fucking sweet is what it is. So why don't you go ahead and tell the folks what's going on in Drew land. So what's going on is I put my Metallica up for trade bait, mostly because after I left Ryan's house on Wednesday, I was like, I want a sweet collection like this. So did we talk about Ryan's collection?
    14:10
    Not specifically. I'm going to make another drink. Why don't you tell him what's in his collection? I'll come back and tell my story. This is Ryan's collection, and I will give you his address later. And never mind. I won't. So Ryan God bless the man who invites Two bozos like us Two poor dicks in this guy's basement He has a dialed in Standard edition He's got a hobbit which looked beautiful Was that the black arrow Yeah the black arrow hobbit He had a lord of the rings that looked fucking mint And then he had The Simpsons Pinball Party Again frigging mint Metallica Pro And the nicest Demoman you have ever seen in your life Oh, that thing was shiny, man. It was shopped. Oh, man. And it was almost too pretty to play, which I would never think of when I thought Demoman. No. When he said it was all beautiful and shopped. It wasn't until I saw the sheen from the play field. I was like, no, this is legit beautiful. Ian was rubbing it for like an hour. Yeah, but. And then he touched the play field.
    15:11
    I see what you did there. You know, I'm not a big Demoman fan, but, dude, that game looked like it screamed play me. It looked brand new. Oh, it was. I've seen a lot of Demomans, but that thing just looked awesome. Like anything from the 90s, they're usually beat to shit. Oh, yeah. They just are. Yeah, you see the wear marks. You see the different things. You can clean them up as best you can, but no. So, folks, when you have a cool machine, shop it out, man. Shop it out. Yeah, spend the time, a little bit of money. Spend the money. Get some more pretty pinball out there because that was gorgeous. He sold me. So next time I get a 90s Williams, it's getting chopped. I don't care. Do we know who did that for him? I don't. No. Okay. He told me. Yeah, I don't remember either. He said it and he paused like it was a dramatic thing. And I'm sorry. It was probably someone really important. But we don't know. We don't know. But you know what? It looked amazing. It did. So those are some long playing games though he's got. He doesn't have, I mean, Metallica's pretty fast and furious, but the other guys, boy, those are long playing games. Those are deep games. Yes. Yeah, I mean, you got Dialed In, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, and Simpsons Pinball Party all in succession like that. Those are four of literally the deepest games out there. Yeah, there's no way that his little one is crying, mama needs help, and he's like, oh, just a quick game of the Hobbit. Nope. Sorry, Sue. uh there's no pause button on this uh you want to come down here i trapped it up oh my god i've actually said that to my wife a couple of times i got kicked in the nuts oh good hey honey i trapped it up yeah i'll make you dinner just hold it yeah man new no yeah if we were playing uh family feud you get the axe all right well done ryan again thank you again and drew okay man go better sweet all right so put metallic up for trade bait trade um on facebook marketplace and uh within a few hours i got a interesting offer for a new out of box uh gold smog uh hobbit so what an interesting debate that would be and it was a debate so anyways uh chris over at kingpin games he said hey i got this game we we used it at texas and midwest gaming classic it literally had just been opened in march so you know it's like i said it's new out of box has full warranty this and that you want to do an even swap so you know i said i was going to think about it for a day or so and then i went on pin side and i saw all the raging debates about metallica versus hobbit which believe it or not there's a lot of them that's uh surprising but not really because they're two separate games and they're very yeah different separate very different and then they uh but price point they're not too far off if you have like a premium which you have yeah so the met premium you know most people are generally actually i looked at i looked at 10 or 15 sales for each yeah and the met premiums were in the 6400 range on average, and the Hobbits were in the a little closer to $7,000. But the Gold Smog is sort of like an LE version. There's a couple more. Some of them went for a little higher. I think the highest sale price I saw was like $72,000, $73,000. Anyways, pretty comparable though. But they're such different games. That's where the debate is. Yeah, crazy. That was the point. Crazy, yes. So all these people on Pinside were just... I mean, they were pissing on the Hobbit. They were just like, why would you do this? And the Hobbit's not worth it. But some of these comments were from a couple of years ago before the code had matured to where it is. Sure, sure. Anyways, long story short, I just went in the Hobbit's owner thread. I posted a few things. I asked some people. I got a lot of good feedback. I had people who actually said, hey, I bought a Metallica. And then I bought a Hobbit. Metallica's gone. The Hobbit's still here.
    19:19
    A couple just quick pin side people. I just want to give a little shout out to. This is a shout out episode. It's a shout out. It's the shout out episode, man. Episode seven, man. It's good stuff. A lot of people are getting more acquainted with the community, and I think that's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Community outreach. Yeah, absolutely. When we're not drinking, we get community outreach. Well, when we're drinking, we get community outreach. We're drinking. Yeah. I was just about to say that, actually. All right. We reach to it. We know each other too well. So anyways, Wild Bill 327 gave me some sound advice. uh mountain gamer on pin side gave me some solid advice uh kong husker gave me some solid advice and gordon shumway do you know what that is so anyways gordon sounds like a woman gordon shumway uh him and i were actually sending private messages back and forth we came friendly on there we're talking about maybe meeting up playing some hobbit together so that's cool but anyways when i asked i called him gordon in his in the first message i sent to him thinking his name was gordon right sense to me sure because it's just a name i'm like okay and then can you guess where it's not his name his name's tim by the way all right well i uh wrestler gordon shumway was the alias that elf used in the sitcom oh jesus christ let's go back to 1984 anyways all right well i god i've seen every episode of elf and i couldn't that's what i said man that's a deep cut hey tim tim deep cut man that's that's well played dude well played so anyways yeah there you go that's the applause for the day for tim excellent deep cutting it man i love it i love it okay so anyways coming back to my story i'm not gonna bore you guys uh too much more too late no i'm just kidding oh wow i love it i love it whoa dude whoa so by the time you guys hear this episode i will have a hobbit in my house drew asked me and he said what do you think i said jersey jack bro it's a jersey jack actually what 27 inch tv baby what ian first said to me was well i'm no help i don't i think they're both how do you say that i don't like either game but uh it's a jersey jack so go with that yeah i don't know what i said i say a lot of obviously that's a pretty big shake-up in my one pin lineup because i'm changing it over 100 and like i said before i'm looking for a simpsons pinball party because i'm waiting for wonka but i probably won't get Wonka until the end of the year and then I'll have a solid lineup. Yep, absolutely. Especially if you get that Wonka or whatever. That's a good look. Wonka, Hobbit, Simpsons Pinball Party, maybe one other. I think I'm going to have a pretty good... Man, now it's looking like Ryan's basement. Those are some deep games. Yep. Well, Lord of the Rings is also one that I would like to potentially have in the long run. I'm trying to get him to get a Raven, guys. It's not working.
    22:03
    Raven's a beautiful machine. There was one for sale I saw. really um yeah i think the facebook market it was like 2200 bucks or something oh wow really i know i almost just want to like i want to text or message that guy just to say really like 2200 for raven yeah i know it man all right well that's cool man good luck man that's awesome i'd go with you but uh i'll be there to set it up how about that yeah yeah he said you come help because that thing is 360 pounds i think it's what i benched no i don't it's it's a monster awesome but yeah my friend josh and i are going out tomorrow morning and we're gonna do that and then um hopefully ian gets over to my house and we can set her up i mean you you got a good deal because here's here's what i'm thinking one jersey jack right boom jersey jack machine biggest selling point quite honestly but two it's a beautiful machine i love it it's a work of art no but yeah nobody has ever said this machine doesn't look good not beautiful not a one three it's deep and four it's not gonna play metallica music all the time so you're all good man those are four good reasons and i don't disagree with that because uh i mean shit i i changed most of the metallica music to acdc music because i couldn't i couldn't listen to that metallica i know i know you did you even put some queen in there which i never understood i just i just put all kinds of weird stuff in there for fun. I put Freebird in there. I just changed the track just to have something different to listen to. Are you changing it back then for him? Fuck no. Oh my god! That's so mean. You've got to change it back for him.
    23:35
    All he has to do is pop in the USB. That's all you've got to do to fix it for him. Oh man. I don't know if I want to do that. Do it. That's what you should do. That's the nicest thing to do. He's setting you up with a hobbit. Yeah, that's true. Don't be a dick, Drew. That's my job. If you think Drew shouldn't be a dick, email us at poormanspinball at gmail.com.
    23:56
    Poormanspinball at gmail.com. And like us on Facebook at Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Like us on Facebook. Let's get into the pinball news, shall we? Because you know what? If you listen to podcasts, every fucking podcast is doing podcast news right now because there's no real new reveals. There's no debates going on right now. Yeah, they're making fun of each other's names. Zach Manning. Fucking Zach.
    24:17
    Zach. Anyway. Moving past that So we're just going to talk news like everybody else We'll give our opinions though I'm not just here to report shit No we are definitely not here for that We report shit just like everyone else reports shit It's no fun right Give some hard facts Alright we won't give any hard facts Not a one We need a fact checker Because we both just say stuff And then it's like Our audience will be our fact checker Okay. Email us at poormanspinball at gmail.com if we are full of shit, which we know we are. All right, kids. Let's go. We're going heavy hitting right away. Deep Root. Deep Root's been in the news. They have. They started off the week. I'm not sure what day it was, but they had the Raza trailer, I guess they're calling it. Yeah. It was just, what, 30 second animated short, I guess. Yeah, it was cool, man. It was. The animations were cool. Yeah, people were giving it shit because it looked like Flash. I mean, nobody is happy anymore. No. In this hobby. No one is happy. It doesn't matter because a lot of people are just like, well, they haven't released a pinball machine. Well. Deep Roop is fucked. That's my opinion. Because no matter what they send out, right? Mm-hmm. Because Robert likes to jack up everyone's expectations. He's like the hype man, right? So he's telling everybody, oh, we got 12 Whitewoods. We're working on everything. We got 100 designers. We got a million guys doing code. We got all these animators. This is going to be a revolutionary pinball experience. And then what happens when they release their first pinball machine? Everyone's going to go, ah, it's just a fucking pinball machine.
    25:53
    Yeah, but you can't handle it. Wonka taught us anything. You can't overhype shit like this because Pinside will tear you right back down to earth. Yeah, but they're going to still sell a lot of Wonkas, right? Listen, I'm not saying what they're going to sell and what they're not going to sell. So I'm just saying we're all going to have to put in those blinders on because people are going to go apeshit once they realize, holy shit, it's just a pinball machine. But to your original point, yeah, just a pinball machine. Do you think – I mean, we've talked about it before with the – could they do it without a back box or something to just radically change it? Do you think they're going to have a basic cabinet layout or are they going to do something radically different? No, I thought Robert said that he was going to stick with the Williams cabinet design. but what they were going to do is more like a zidware stuff where the screen is in the play field itself that's what i'm saying anything that's radically different well zidware i mean the circus voltaire did it you know they had a screen on the bot on the back box so it's not or not back box but you know what i'm saying the back of the play field so and then with the screen orientation or the the aspect ratio of that rasa uh animated clip that's clearly the same size of what's going to be in the back of the cabinets and that was interesting that that ratio yeah that ratio was 100 saying dude we're having this inside the cabinet um but i don't know what you're going to do as far as you know drastically change the pinball landscape as long as you have the only thing i can think of and people are thinking technology i'm just thinking hey man you have a jersey jack style pinball machine with mechs and stuff great art like stern's been pulling off great animations like jersey jack's been pulling off and you can do it at a price under 7 000 that's radically changing shit for me and i agree and what you just mentioned you know we kind of know even though pin side still polarize and all this stuff we kind of know what gets people excited because like jersey jack like you said we're talking about the hobbit some people don't like it but everyone says hey this game looks amazing right right so you you you do that for the art and like you said the big 27 inch screen boom check right you're done yeah then it's a and it's it turns into an experience when you have yes the different lights and and the um you know jersey jack did a lot with the audio and stuff where it's just you know lower bass and the you know all that cool stuff my question to any of these pinball companies is why can't you put it all together why are you always missing a critical component of one of those sections whether it be art or mech or screen or you know right right no i think canada was talking about it today but he was talking about multimorphic where oh it was it was more or less just talking about give the people what they want and nobody seems to be doing that right and this is the same same exact argument right the discussion we're having right now is yeah nobody's really giving the people what they want people are happy you know if if deep root can come in and be another player that actually brings multiple things in versus say a stern who releases you know four or five games a year i would gladly trade that into three awesome games a year but whatever that's just me sure um but yeah i i think if deep root is serious about this they're gonna go in run the blazing at an affordable price point at least the first few machines they can always jack up the price later but do you think if they're gonna steal market share you have to sure you have to you know one of the reasons Stern can sell for less is as we know they have less in their machines and they obviously getting better prices on parts than say a company like Jersey Jack Right So a new company like Deep Root I mean, are they going to be able to get the bomb down low enough to be able to sell a $5,000 machine? I don't think it matters when you're stealing market share. You've just got to be profitable somewhat. They've already proven they have deep pockets. They can go forever without even fucking selling anything. True. Not to mention the big revelation that Deep Root isn't a pinball company. They're a multimedia company. They're a studios company. So they have a lot of pokers in the fire, kids. This isn't about a pinball machine. This is about mobile apps and games. But that begs another question. How good is the pinball going to be if they're dipping their toes in all this other shit? What if they get all this other stuff off the ground and they're successful, right? And they're making mobile games, and they're making all these cool things, and people are buying them. And then they put out a pinball machine, and the pinball community goes, eh, you know, that could happen. Would you think they'd drop the pinball section altogether then if it wasn't as big a hit? Is that what you're saying? Well, maybe not drop it, but it might not be. Like I said, they could be a successful company based on what we're hearing without having good pinball or maybe any pinball at all. Right, right. but it sounds like Robert just wants it to be a pinball company, and he's going to fund it with the success of other companies, smaller. Sure, and that's fine. Hey, I'm not rooting for him to fail by any means. I'm super interested to see what's going to happen. I'm just playing devil's advocate. No, again, and Kennedy even brought this up too, I think. He said, you know, look at American Pinball, funded by a bigger company, right? Jersey Jack. Oh, yeah, the boards and stuff. Jersey Jack, funded by an investor, you know? Yeah. Stern is actually the only one out there, with the exception of Charlie, that is. Well, but Stern has investors, though, now, too. All right. Guess what, kids? Everybody has money coming in from a different source. With that being said, though, I'm sure Stern could stand on its own now, obviously. I think that was the point Kaneda made. It's pinball, pinball is pinball is pinball. Yeah, and that's what Stern does. Yeah, correct. Right. And that's what they do so well. Versus American Pinball or even CGC's got other things that they sell. Yeah. They are not a strict pinball company. No, and American Pinball is interesting because you've got to wonder if their pinball division is making anything. I would say no. Whose? American. Oh, yeah, no. No. No, no. I haven't seen their P&L, but I'm guessing that they're in the red. If you guys actually listen to Chris Kaneda's podcast, I would give it a good listen. I forget what episode he's on, but I was really, really impressed with the way he was talking about how American Pinball isn't making good games. And what company out there can quickly kind of rush a Houdini out there, right? And then all of a sudden they tell their designer, without any market research, make what you want. Go for it, man. Here are the keys. on our second game. And he's like, I want to do Oktoberfest. And nobody bats an eye over American Pinball. They're like, well, I guess we're doing Oktoberfest because our main guy wants to do Oktoberfest. And then Kaneda's whole point was, if Oktoberfest fails,
    32:48
    does he get any kind of punishment? No. You know why? Because they have games, what, 4, 5, and 6 on? 3, 4, 5? Yeah, they said they're literally working on some stage of the fifth game. Which is crazy. Joe Balser. I was having a hard time remembering the name. But yeah, Joe Balser. Just sitting there like, yeah, fuck it. October 5th it is. And they're like, huh. We should test that theory and have somebody name a theme that isn't even a real theme. Just words that are strung together. And they'll be like, sorry, I just saw the most bitter.
    33:23
    Don't even go there. Here, try some of this. This beer that Eric gave us, it was delicious. It tastes like special wind lip. nope edit edit edit all right well you know what though i mean thanks eric that beer was delicious yes thank you eric um i guess moral of the story is and we went all over the place and we we covered some things that canada was talking about but moral of the story is just show us what you got right get a pinball out there you think we're gonna see a pinball by the end of the year Yes. Like four people to buy by the end of the year? Yes. They might not be shipping, but that will be revealed. Well, Robert has said ship within two weeks.
    34:07
    You still don't think they're going to ship? He can say that. Jersey Jack said that too. Well, they said 60 days. Okay, and how'd they do on that? Well, we're still waiting. It's not been over 60 days yet. No, I'm not even talking about Wonka. I'm talking about the Pirates. They didn't say 60 days on those. Well, whatever. 60 days is a new thing No, we're trying that out. My point is, is that it sounds to me in my limited pinball business experience, which is none, that everything points to manufacturing. Right. Meaning, you know, these companies can make great, great games. They can design games. I mean, you know, you look at, you know, Keith Alwyn and his brother made this great game in their, you know, in their spare time, you know, for a while. And it was awesome. and Jack Danger's working on a game. People can make games. People have these talents and they can do it. And that's hard too. But once they get a great game, that guy who's doing Nightmare Before Christmas, okay, he made this great game. He's very talented. But now someone has to manufacture those games to scale. And that's hard. Yeah, manufacturing encompasses not only just putting the shit together, but actually ordering the parts and having them all there on time. When I heard... It's a whole thing. Yeah. All it takes is a certain screw. Yeah. I was just about to say, when I heard Jersey Jack talk about that, we all know there's thousands of parts in every machine. Right. But yeah, he was talking about, yeah, if we're waiting on one little part, we can maybe keep going on another part of the machine, but obviously we can't put that machine together, and you don't really think about that. Right. You're like, yeah, we need these parts. We're waiting. Deep root.
    35:48
    I hope we see a game by the end of the year. So here we go. I'll throw another question at you. You want a Willie. Definitely want a Willie. But what if Deep Root does reveal something even better than Willie? Are you out of a Willie then? Because the problem with Willie is they're not shipping until. Yeah, we won't get an LE until fall probably. Yeah. Realistically.
    36:11
    No. Just before Christmas. Well, I tell you, I'm committed to buying several machines this year. Yeah. So I'm probably still in. Look at you, poor man's pinball. hey hey i have to get rid of my beloved metallica to move on up you know i hear your brother no and when i say a few games you know maybe like two all right well so that leaves us jjp we're still waiting on wonka huh yeah they said you know uh zach who as everyone knows the distributor talked to a couple other distributors and they said you know 60 days is kind of what they're hearing and that's what jack wants but you know who knows because uh they're not on the line and once again if if they're not uh able to do it then they're not able to do it american pinball josh kugler reveals people are working on games three four and five we talked about that it's hard to believe that that's even possible um and they're they're in different stages of development so who knows do we even know you know american pinball dude wow you've you've soured because you were you were ian was one of their biggest supporters well when they announced those those potential four games robin hood poker run valkyries valkyries kind of cool and sherlock holmes i was like for fuck's sake man nobody's excited about any of those let's be honest everyone asks the question you know which one you like the best but nobody really says what they mean like the answer is none of them i don't i don't think it matters i'll tell you why you don't like theme that's right no no that's not a theme guy even if i was a theme guy here's why because Houdini is a great example, okay, from the same company that we're talking about. When Houdini was announced, everyone thought it was awesome. They said, here's the... Which version? What do you mean, which version? J-Pop's version or American Pinball's version? No, American Pinball. So, you know, people were like, wow, this is new, it's interesting, it's unique. And then it came out and people said, wow, this machine looks amazing, right? Because it does. And then you play it and, you know, then everyone was bitching about the shots. and we can argue all day about that because you know i we've talked about it's fun to play it's you know it's fine um but if that game you know maybe had a different layout it may have been a huge hit and i think that that theme and once again being a guy who doesn't really care that much about themes i think it's awesome houdini that's cool right well houdini was cool because it was more steampunk than it was houdini sure whatever it's basically a steampunk game which is a cool thing sure fine call it steampunk whatever you want to do but i'm just saying you're not going to do that with robin hood in the fucking forest the steampunk robin yeah you can't do it but my point is is that if valkyries comes out and it's a cool pinball machine that's the one i have hope for people will buy if if robin hood comes out and it's a really cool pin that shoots well it'll be received well oktoberfest is a cool game are you buying one of those crickets is that what i'll say crickets crickets all right let's move on move on well american pinball good luck brother three four and five i hope they are great games josh kugler email us at poor man's pinball at gmail.com tell us what games three four and five are please he's the coder so joe balser's probably working on these games so joe joe man i hope you are you still got a lot of creative juices for three four and five that's gotta be hard being the only designer in a company oh it's it's it's insane why don't they have another one even charlie is you know scott denisi so i don't know yeah well it's just it's the cost thing i'm sure canada had another good point about american pinball you want to hear this i'm ready all right canada said he's like he's like all right you got the same coders same artist and same designer for games three four and five so what are you expecting to change out of american pinball Oh, that's a good take. Kaneda, good job, man. That's an awesome take. Yeah. Definition of insanity, you know? Yeah. Expecting different results doing the same shit. But, you know, I... At least every other company has different designers. It's... I got to go back to Oktoberfest for just a second. Ah! No, no, I'm just thinking about it now. I'm excited to do it. And, man, that layout was so unique. It is. It was. so i find it really hard to just keep shitting on them all day you know every day who american pinball oh we're not shitting on them yeah we say that every time and then we agree yes we are that's our new tagline for them american pinball we're not shitting on them yeah we're shitting on them no we love houdini we do we love it's fine and oktoberfest is it's it's it's okay It's okay. You know, you look at that thing and even just... It's better than anything Stern has. I still put that above any Stern machine. Yeah, see, that's the problem, though. We can't use Stern as the bar anymore. That is the problem. I know. We got to get past that. Who's the bar? That's a great question. Who's the bar? Yeah, because you can't say Jersey Jack because they're not shipping games in a month after they announce them. Stern has to be the bar. They are. I know. They shouldn't be, but they are. They are. Yes. So anyways, we can move past it. But I just wanted to say to all the American Pinball people, Joe, Josh, who else is there? Nermal. Nermal, sorry. You guys are doing a great job, and I think – We'll be shills for you. Send us a Houdini. Just keep it up. Keep plodding away. But good luck, guys. I really hope you can sell something. I'm sure there's people out there that are buying them and loving them. My word of advice, let's get another artist in there. Yes. Let's switch the look up. Let's switch the look up because Joe Balser has been proven to make beautiful games. We just talked about The Simpsons. So let's get an artist in there and let's get some animators in there. Just take The Simpsons layout and do a different theme.
    42:04
    Layout's not a problem with Joe Balser. Joe Balser makes some pretty badass layouts. It's cool. It just is. Well, anyone other than Stern released two or more games in one year. Two or more games in one year. Jersey Jack said they wanted to do two this year. Every time we ask questions like this, it always goes, well, so-and-so said this, so-and-so said this. Well, this is what we're talking about. No, no, but I'm saying nobody's done it. Nobody. Nobody's done it. Jack says, yeah, we want to do two. He even said possibly three a year. No, it's so disappointing. Jack did another line of cocaine, and then everything fits back to normal.
    42:38
    That's my Jack cocaine noise. Just kidding, Jack. I know you don't do cocaine. It was a joke. Everybody, settle down. We are a rated R podcast.
    42:47
    yeah it's it's very disappointing because i would love for any company out there okay let's let's not even say two games a year this is what even a company like spooky okay okay they're releasing one game a year that's fine charlie you're doing great work there we love you charlie love you charlie announce a game reveal it and then ship it within 60 days i'm okay with that that's what this plan is we'll see yeah where are we at now mgc was april 14th so yeah i mean you know that's the problem i mean we're almost a month out already now and we haven't heard one word they're not on the line i don't think correct so where do we go from here i mean how many standards are they gonna ship before they start working on the limited i would think you know let's just you know they say they sold like three four or five thousand of waz's or whatever i'm just making it up a number like we often do on this show sounds right so yeah if they sold 5 000 wazas or 6 000 wazas over the years they're probably anticipating this to be the same if not more so i think they'd have to get out say a thousand games before they start making le's that sound about right sure man you know make a thousand standards get them out in the bars right get people playing them and then uh start start making some le for me and ian yeah dude i uh I am still super excited about Iwanko Good Well we know it great and we just got to get it in our hands It one of those games where people are going to be drawn to it for sure Yes. Absolutely. 100%. Do you think any other company is going to release two games? Say within the next two or three years, is there going to be a company that's going to say, hey, we got two games this year, we got three games this year? Jersey Jack's the closest one, maybe Deep Root. Okay. Not this year, obviously. No. Next year, maybe Deep Root releases all 12. We don't know. Well, you know, according to Robert again, you know what he says, it sounds like they're just going to release, yeah, several games at once and say, hey, here's five games you can buy. Yep. Which would be crazy. Yeah, exactly. I don't know, man. I'm curious about all of it. I want to know. Yeah, we're not talking about four games, six games, 12 games. We're saying, can you release two in a single year? Yo, bro, can we do two? I don't know, man. Just two. I don't know. We're asking a lot, though. We are. It's tough. It's very tough. Look at Oktoberfest. That was fucking announced last year. It's almost October again. Sorry, I'm shitting on them again. These reveals, they have to just stop, number one. You reveal the game when you're shipping. It's almost that bad.
    45:25
    Okay, here's another interesting question about that. If you do that, do you think you sell more units? I would say yes. You've got to strike when the iron's hot. It is 100% an impulse buy. 100%. Well, not 100%. Dude, it is an impulse buy. Everybody knows it. Everyone gets excited. They all go in for their LEs.
    45:45
    Well, the LEs, yeah. And that's where the companies make their money. So, yeah, it's an impulse buy. Yeah, but you're right. If they announce it and then people put down these deposits and then, yeah, they're like, tell the distributor, I don't want this thing anymore. I want something else. Well, right. I think it was Marty on Head to Head. he was talking about how new in box pins aren't a thing as much in australia because when things get released they get all excited they put their money down they don't see that shit for a year regardless like yeah even under best best case scenario yeah they gotta still ship across the world to get to these guys these poor bastards so there is no by the time they get them marty's said like it's worn off like it is done like they don't they're excited but they're that joy that that that rush they got right away that's gone now because boom you know they've been waiting for a year you know and that's how pirates same fucking thing with jersey jack and i hope wonka's not like that well to my australia friends you can you can buy a thunderbirds right now if you want no i don't think i don't think they're there yet i don't know i don't know where thunderbirds is anymore has anyone heard has anyone heard did they ship to australia finally You know, there hasn't been any. I don't think I've seen any chatter on Pinside either about that. I think everyone's just called it quits on that one.
    47:09
    Monster Bash LE. Some buyers still don't have it yet. Yeah. That's disappointing as well. They paid in full, and they're waiting. Yeah, that's disappointing, definitely, especially since I've had my SE now, I feel, for a few months now. Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, they've been out for a while, and CGC is one of them who said they were going to start releasing quicker. Right. And they did. They released those right away, but not the L.E.s. No, no, but I mean even like a second game and getting games moving. Oh, you're talking about, yeah, the general, what their strategy is. Yeah, and they haven't announced anything yet. And, you know, now would be the time because there's nothing going on. You know, the big games have been released for the year. Now would be a great time for them to say, hey, we got something for you. What do you want to see next from CGC? Well, I told you, Theater of Magic or Toten I would be excited about. Yeah, I think those two would probably be on top of my list. Okay. Yeah, how about you? Something original. I'm done with that list. I already told you. Oh, I thought we were talking strictly about remakes. No, just anything next for CBC. Oh, then I would definitely like to see something original from them. Yeah. See what they can do. Big Bang Bar strikes my fancy a little bit I just like the colors I think it's a beautiful looking machine Never shot one but I will try Alright man cool Should we do love letters? I think it is time for some love So last week We threw the challenge out there Hey guys why don't you Send us your love letters We got some man We got one for sure And then one who we're just adding at the end Should we tell the story or should we just read it? We're just going to read it and then we'll talk about it after. I like that. All right. I'll start us off here. This is going to be a long one since we've got four to read. All right. Okay. So I'll go with mine. You go with yours. And then you want me to read the other two then? Yeah. And then we can discuss it. Okay. All right. Sounds like a plan. All right. Love letters. Deerpen Stadiums. Talk about lighting a way to my heart And my pants You lighten my life to the fullest Your UV glow Makes me grow You're rhyming this week I love how you turn my darkest pins to light Showing all the glorious artwork We have been missing for over 30 years Who knew there was a deck of a ship And water on the sides on a black rose Who knew Raven was so sleek, sexy, and luxurious.
    49:54
    Who knew Adam's family had Playfield art? Like a sexy partner on Tinder, you are right there as an app on my phone whenever I need you. Thank you for brightening up my day. I will forever love our relationship. Always yours, Ian. Nice. Thanks, man. Wow. I don't know if I can follow that. That's going to be a tough act to follow. I'm just feeling really warm. Yeah. sexy pin stadium hard making that sexy actually i just started writing it but go ahead man all right so mine uh it's part of my uh call this the the drew bittersweet episode uh mine is to my metallica premium dear metallica premium we have had some great times together i will always think about our one minute quickies and our occasional 20 minute marathons. However, it pains me to say it. It's time to part ways. Oh, it's a breakup letter.
    50:57
    Little twist this week. Oh, this is so sad. It gets better. Maybe down the road, we will run into each other in a dark dingy bar and we can have a fast one for old time's sake.
    51:11
    I will never forget you. Goodbye for now. Drew. Aww, that's a very lovely love letter, Drew. Very nice. Well done, man. All right, so we'll do the first love letter from an Ian Harwer.
    51:32
    At first, I really thought this was Ian spoofing our email or something. Because I saw the name. I was like, what? No, no. Not me. This is actually a real love letter. A fan name Ian. Go ahead. Fan name Ian. Ready.
    51:46
    Dear Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Or is it Poor Man's Pinball? I can't follow what the fuck you keep saying. Your address is...
    51:56
    I subscribed to your podcast accidentally when I confused you with Loser Kid Podcast. Despite you being crass and immature, I can't stop listening. maybe it's because when Drew says my name I pretend he's talking to me and it makes me weak in the knees sincerely some rich fuck named Ian Howerware how do you say that? Howerware thank you so much for sending that in that was fun man you rich fuck at least there's a rich fuck named Ian out there somewhere alright and then the next one is from a Brad Hopkins. This is our international fan from Ontario, Canada. Yeah, this is the asterisk one.
    52:47
    Hey guys. I listen to about eight different pinball podcasts and you guys are now my second favorite. I think if you stop with the love letter segment that may move you to number one. Thanks, Brad Hopkins.
    53:04
    Thanks, Brad, for your love letter submission. And that's love letters. Alright, what did we learn? Well, we learned that Brad's not going to listen to us anymore.
    53:15
    I learned that it's okay being number two sometimes. Thanks, Brad, for the love letter. I don't even know if that was a love letter, but we're going to count it. We honestly debated it for several days. We were like, are we going to be dicks and put his love letter hate on our love letter segment? Oh yeah, that happened. That's what we do. Oh, my God. So that was great. Thanks, Ian. Thank you, Brad. That was good stuff, man. Thanks, guys. All right. So mailbag. Mailbag. Yeah, you do have fire in me. That's the insane. Mailbag. No, it's better if we both do it at the same time. Okay, ready? Let's go back, and we're not editing it. No. Mailbag. All right. So the first email is from Mike D.
    54:02
    I love your show, Drew and Ian. are hilariously stupid. I feel dumber listening to you guys. Thanks for making my drive to work tolerable. Well, that's nice. That's good. Well, fuck you, Mike. I'm not stupid. I'm pretty cool and smart. Thank you, Mike. The second one here we got from Zapotite43. The show is okay, but do you really need to drop so many F-bombs? I like to listen with my kids and love the content that you put out. Wonka or Sword of Rage? Well, fuck you, Zapotite. Number one. No, I'm joking. And we're Wonka, right? Pure Wonka. Oh yeah, Wonka. Wonka. Give us the Wonka. We like it. Alright. Third one. Broken Flipper. Love what you guys are doing. Refreshing to hear real opinions without taking others' feelings into account. Don't change. Stay assholes. Are you guys still going to be in on a Wonka or are you going to wait for a Deep Root game? Wonkas won't ship for a while. I think we just talked about that. Wonka, Wonka, Wonka. We'll do the Wonkas for a while. And then, you know, whenever Deep Roop wants to set a game, we'll take a look at it. Quick question, though. Let's say Wonka doesn't ship for a year.
    55:18
    Are you still going to wait? Uh... Possibility exists. No. No, I won't wait anymore. Okay. So we're on, like, what? Probably a six-month window, maybe? I'm giving it. I'm giving them to the end of October. Okay. And then I will move on. Okay. That's fair. You hear that, Jersey Jack? You have until October to sell two Wonkas. Yeah.
    55:40
    Are you going to? You'll wait, won't you? I'll wait. I tell you, I think I'm in for a Christmas purchase, so I can wait until the end of the year. I'm fine with that. All right. There you go. You heard it here first, folks. They may lose out on one, but they'll always have Drew. Drew's getting his Willie. Drew loves his Willie. All right, man. Well, that's the show. We're good. It is. Short and dirty today. I love it. Oh, man. We're at an hour. There's only a little bit of editing to do, so we'll be right around there. We are getting better at this. Hope we didn't bore you. Remember, TormandPimballGmail.com. We're looking for more love letter submissions. Absolutely. That was good. We're looking for any sort of mailbag submissions. Mailbag? Yeah, if you guys want to send us something funny, quirky, whatever, anything pinball related, we'll take it.
    56:24
    We appreciate all you guys listening. Emails are starting to come in, guys, so get on this. It's fun. Yeah. We've only mentioned our email address, what, 6,000 times? Yeah. Well, like us on Facebook. Four Man's Pinball Podcast on Facebook. You can message us there. You know, we'll do a little quick Franchi watch.
    56:42
    Sorry, Ryan C. I know he just ripped that off from him so bad. Anyway, so Franchi, he messaged me finally about the tattoo.
    56:54
    And the fucker didn't get me. Oh, I didn't even know this. Go ahead. Well, no, you didn't know this. It was that logo from another podcast. Oh, yeah. From Canada. It was like Canadian's pinball podcast or whatever. Yeah. The logo. Did you get clarification on that? I don't want to feel like an asshole and be like, no, dude, the deal was for the creature. I just posted a picture of a creature from the Black Lagoon. That's how I messaged him back. That wasn't even... Was that something he did? Did he make that logo? I think he made the logo for them. And that's what he wanted me to put attached. I'm not doing a tattoo of a rival podcast on my leg. Sorry. And in fact, there's no such thing as a rival podcast because we don't really make money. Yeah, except for Zach Money. Exactly. Zach, yeah. He finds the way to get the money. No, no, no. I meant he's a rival of ours.
    57:44
    Oh. You're now an enemy, Zach. No, just kidding. We love you, Zach. Arch nemesis, Zach. No, I love you, man. Yeah, he's our fellow broke dick mountain guy. Yeah, we love him to death. Those of you who don't understand the reference, you just got to watch the This Week in Pinball podcast. That was from yesterday or today. Yeah, it was released today, Monday. Okay. So listen to This Week in Pinball. If you haven't listened already, listen to This Week in Pinball. You'll get it. He starts talking about the poor dicks. That's us, man. We're the poor dicks. Who knew? Anyway. All right. Well, Drew, how are you feeling? I feel great, man. Episode 7 in the books. In the books. Coming at you next week. And next week, I'm going to talk about my habit. next week talk about a hobbit hopefully we have a guest for next week we oh we do have yep we do have a guest lined up we actually have three guests lined up but we're we're spacing them out so you know these lean days we don't have to just have all these guests back back back so we love you guys thank you for listening drew you want to say goodbye and tell them you love them peace out all right later guys thank you