Episode 65 - There Is No Compromise

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·49m 34s·analyzed·Aug 13, 2019

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Multi-manufacturer news, Jurassic Park review, and extensive pinball community drama discussion

Summary

Episode 65 of Special When Lit Pinball Podcast covers industry news including Multimorphic's P3 placement at Dave & Buster's Austin location, Spooky Pinball's new fan club membership tiers ($25 Coffin level, $350 Bloodsuckers level with jump-the-line benefits), American Pinball's continued work on Oktoberfest code, Deep Root's settlement of Zidware compensation claims, and detailed impressions of the newly released Stern Jurassic Park. The hosts also address significant community drama on social media and Pinside involving allegations of inappropriate behavior and moderation disputes.

Key Claims

Dave & Buster's Austin, Texas location has two P3s on location, marking the chain's first pinball machines in over a decade
high confidence · Ryan Claytor/Jerry Stellenberg (Multimorphic founder) report; official announcement via podcast
Spooky Pinball fan club has two membership tiers: Coffin level at $25 with swag/membership card, and Bloodsuckers level at $350 with game bling and transferable features
high confidence · Dr. John (Spooky correspondent) citing latest Spooky podcast; confirmed membership structure
American Pinball is focused on Oktoberfest code updates and game number three development with no public announcements at this time
high confidence · Brian Kosner (American Pinball correspondent) citing Joe at American Pinball, 'heads down, working hard, no public news mode'
Deep Root Pinball compensated Zidware customers who lost deposits by offering new machines or cash settlements when deadlines were not met
high confidence · Ken Cromwell and Bill discussing Robert Mueller's (Deep Root founder) settlement approach
Ken Cromwell is installing 220V electrical service to garage for game room, mini-split HVAC, and podcast/streaming studio with October 1st planned ribbon cutting
high confidence · Ken Cromwell personal update at episode opening; confirmed infrastructure installation status
Jurassic Park Pro has multiple tight shots on right-hand side, a third flipper option, and smooth shot progression that becomes fulfilling after 10+ plays
high confidence · Bill (co-host) detailed gameplay impressions based on ~25 games played; Ken Cromwell corroboration based on ~10 games
Jurassic Park features animations instead of movie clips on LCD, opening helicopter sequence that can be skipped with flipper buttons, and skill shot immediately off plunge
high confidence · Bill describing gameplay experience and design choices in detail
Stern is releasing new Jurassic Park code as of the stream date (Monday night) with Keith Elwin participating in chat for first 20-30 minutes

Notable Quotes

“Dave and Buster's got rid of pinball machines, and this is the first time in my recollection they've committed to a pinball machine in over a decade.”
Ryan Claytor (via Jerry Stellenberg statement) @ ~10 min — Confirms historical absence of pinball at Dave & Buster's chain and significance of Multimorphic breakthrough
“If I don't have a machine after 90 days of me putting an order in, I've lost interest. So for me, that $350 is peace of mind and assurance that I'm going to get the game.”
Ken Cromwell @ ~22 min — Explains collector psychology and rationale for jump-the-line membership tier; defense of Spooky pricing model
“If you throw Stern Pros Jurassic Park just hit the line...they would be ridiculed and people would just not buy their stuff.”
Bill @ ~24 min — Contrasts pricing/strategy tolerance between boutique and major manufacturers; market segmentation insight
“I really, really like the game. I think the artwork on the playfield is incredible. I think the shots are very smooth. I really like the animations.”
Bill @ ~35 min — Initial positive assessment of Jurassic Park after 10+ plays; addresses animation quality vs. movie clips absence
“There are two shots on the right-hand side that are both vital shots that are a little bit tighter than what you're used to, but it makes hitting them so fulfilling.”
Bill @ ~37 min — Specific gameplay mechanic praise for Jurassic Park layout design by Keith Elwin
“I really feel that Ghostbusters really did a great job of immersing you in that world. [Jurassic Park] is just awesome to me with how you can visually see yourself in this world.”
Ken Cromwell @ ~39 min — Articulates design philosophy value of immersion and world-building in modern pinball
“You really feel immersed with animations. The animations are top-notch. And you'll realize that as soon as you hit the start button...flying in on the helicopter.”
Bill — Detailed description of opening sequence and animation quality as immersion mechanism

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBillpersonRyan ClaytorpersonJerry StellenbergpersonDr. JohnpersonBrian KosnerpersonRobert Muellerperson Keith Elwinperson

Signals

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product_launch: Stern Jurassic Park new code version debuting on stream (Monday night of episode); fresh code release shortly after initial shipping
high · Ken Cromwell: 'We're going to stream Jurassic Park tonight...We got new code on Jurassic Park'
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design_philosophy: Keith Elwin Jurassic Park design emphasizes world immersion through animations, opening sequences, and visual storytelling rather than movie clips; contrasts with recent Stern titles
high · Bill: 'The animations are top-notch...you really have to get in front of a pin to kind of get full appreciation for it'; Ken: 'Ghostbusters really did a great job of immersing you in that world'
?
gameplay_signal: Jurassic Park has steep initial learning curve (first 3 games confusing) but becomes intuitive after ~10-11 games; multiple shot options reward skill and exploration
high · Bill: 'The first few games I put on it...it's almost a little bit overwhelming at first...after like 10 or 11 games, things just started making sense'
?
machine_intel: Jurassic Park features: third flipper option, tight right-hand shots, helicopter opening sequence (skippable with flipper buttons), skill shot immediately off plunge, no movie clips on LCD, custom animations
high · Bill detailed breakdown: 'There are two shots on the right-hand side...third flipper, there's different ways...flying in on the helicopter...you don't have any of the movie clips on the LCD'
?
product_strategy: Spooky Pinball implementing tiered fan club with $25 entry (swag/card) and $350 'jump-the-line' option providing early machine access and transferable bling across game cycles

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.149

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coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now pinball land hello welcome to episode number 65 of the special when lit pinball podcast my name is ken cromwell and i am bill we're here to inform and entertain hopefully for the next 45 Five minutes or so as we divulge into a pinball Monday. We'll release this on Tuesday. So good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Everybody take some time out of your day to play some pinball. There we go. Folks, now we're good. Hey, that wraps it up. That's a wrap, man. That's a 26, 27-second interview right there. Podcast, that's awesome. If they were all like that, we'd probably all be better off when I think about it. Probably, especially with certain people's opinions, it seems like lately. A lot of opinions all over social media and pin side. We're going to get into that a little bit later. But what's happening with you, man? anything good no nothing at all right nothing good man yeah man just a crazy weekend uh had a neighbor that uh passed away so that kind of sucked yeah sorry um and then uh yeah man other than that that's about it dude kind of kind of a glum week so we're gonna lighten lighten the mood with some good pinball lighten the mood up with uh getting down and dirty with some uh pinball drama absolutely right the drama is very prevalent this week absolutely how about last week anything good in your world let's go let's go there yeah give me some good yeah so some coins of positivity here anyone that's followed the show you know i've discussed turning my garage into a game room for the pinball machines and the podcast studio and the uh flipping out pinball streaming studio so essentially right now i have um i've i've got the the 220 run to the garage so that i can power the mini split which it has yet to be installed meaning the mini splits not been installed the electricals there i went ahead and i uh insulated the outside wall that needed insulation drywall goes up this week so i don't know i'm i'm ahead of the game right now so we'll see what happens and i look forward to put some progress picks up hopefully we are uh transmitting out of studio c which is for cromwell uh coming up here cromwell garage yeah i would like to have that up and running i'm i'm gonna go ahead with an october 1st ribbon cutting ceremony on that so right right before expo hopefully nice now i know i'm channeling at least one listener when i say this Okay. All right. I feel this, even though it's 24 or 18 hours into the future. Right. Okay. So for that person that's wondering, was it 220 or 221 in the garage? It's whatever it takes. Okay. All right. Just making sure. I like it. I agree with that. Hey, listen, if I didn't call it out like that, somebody would have been like, mother, they finally set this joke up. Well, is it 220 or is it 240? I mean, I don't know even what's proper to say because, I mean, really, isn't it 240 that's volts that are going through like a alleged yeah but dude i think the voltage out of my wall is like actually 108 or 112 it's not 120 i got my little dedicated panel set up to run the mini split in the garage so i think i got a 60 amp panel out there and uh i'm ready to rock and roll oh yeah dude you got plenty of power that's what i need to put my shed in all honesty but so we've lost about 50 of the listening audience getting into technical uh electrical nonsense let's go ahead and let's get into the pinball news getting the news from around the industry in this week's industry buzz. This is Ryan Claytor, your Multimorphic correspondent. Are you ready for some crazy news? Actually, because this is so unprecedented, I'm going to let Multimorphic founder Jerry Stellenberg tell you about it. Dave and Buster's has two P3s on location. You heard it here first. Dave and Buster's, the giant North American restaurant an arcade chain with a reported 129 locations open as of June 2019, have committed to placing two P3s in their Austin, Texas location. If you're not stunned right now, maybe it's because you're unaware of Dave & Buster's no pinball policy in the recent past. In fact, the last time I saw a pinball machine in Dave & Buster's was in the very early 2000s. But from my understanding, Dave & Buster's got rid of pinball machines, and this is the first time in my recollection they've committed to a pinball machine in over a decade. So what can you expect to see at the Austin Dave & Buster's? They're currently running the Heads Up game, which is our two-player multi-game battle royale where two players can connect to each other and try to beat each other by getting the highest score. Heads Up, in addition to being a really fun, simultaneously multiplayer experience, is also a game with a dedicated time limit. Plus, it's a title that is ultimately accessible. Make your shots, affect your opponent, duke it out. So if you've not had a chance to play Heads Up, you'll have an opportunity to do so at the Austin, Texas Dave & Buster's. So if you're in the area, point your GPS to 9333 Research Boulevard, Suite A600 in Austin, Texas, 78759. Until next time, stay innovative. Hello from Dr. John with this week's spooky pinball update. Emily and I managed to survive our US trip, and sadly we didn't get to catch up for the stream with Ken and Bill, but we had an absolute blast at Pinberg, and even managed a tour of the Stern factory, and our special thanks goes to Ways and Chen for organising that. The news from Spooky, from their latest podcast, is their fan club is still in development. Unfortunately, Charlie was a bit under the weather this month, So, couldn't reveal exact details of start time, but it looks like they've decided on two levels, with the first level coming in at $25, and that will be the Coffin level, and for that you get Swag, including a membership card, and then the Bloodsuckers level comes in at possibly $350, and this will entitle you to game bling and added features on any machine you purchase. you do not have to use it on the next game they have it can be transferable at any stage Charlie did say this membership goes from game cycle to game cycle so I'm not sure whether you have to repeat your membership after every game announcement but more will be revealed on the next podcast which comes out on the first of every month anyway thanks to USA for hosting Emily and I for the last two weeks We had an absolute ball, and I'll catch you all next week. Ta-ra. Hey, this is Kaz, your special when lit American pinball correspondent. Unfortunately, there's no major news this week, as the main focus has been the continued work on Oktoberfest code and working on game number three. I talked to Joe this week, and they were, quote, heads down, working hard, no public news mode. so they wanted everyone to know that they should check out the new Oktoberfest code and to send them feedback if they have any issues. American Pinball is also running a contest on their Facebook page, so you need to like, follow, and share their page to be entered in an Oktoberfest prize package with the winner to be announced August 30th. So hope everyone has a great week and has fun playing pinball. For American Pinball, this is Brian Kosner. And Deep Root, they went ahead and they made good on Zidware claims by compensating those that didn't want to extend Deep Root's self-imposed deadline of having a machine ready in trade for money lost to Zidware. And Stern Jurassic Park Pro unboxings are currently being seen across the United States. Exciting times for pinball. When a new game comes out, Bill. Yeah, we were fortunate enough to get Jurassic Park and unbox one. Very fortunate. Let's talk about that in a second. Let's go back to Multimorphic real quick. And so it looks like Jerry's kind of penetrated a chain of an arcade chain, the biggest arcade chain in the United States with Dave & Buster's. He's got two of the multi-morphic machines inside of Dave & Buster's out there in Texas. What are your thoughts on that? You know what? I'm happy that they were able to break ground and get, you know, machines into that arcade. You know, I've heard about it a few times today. But the one thing I'd really like to see is machines returning to, like, 7-Elevens in your local hot dog stands. Oh, yeah. You know, back in the day in the 80s, 90s, you couldn't walk into a 7-Eleven without seeing Elvira and the Party Monsters or Whirlwind or any of these kind of games. So, I mean, I think it's one small step forward, but I think there's potential there. I don't know that you'll ever see 7-Elevens and, you know, getting that kind of stuff. And I think it's just because of a service standpoint. You don't have the guy behind the counter that's going to lift the play field or get some glass off to get a ball that's unstuck. And unless you have 24-7 roving techs for companies, I don't know how practical that is. I'd love to see that, too, because a lot of times I wouldn't know what was out until I went to a 7-Eleven. And more times than not, it was like a new arcade machine. Maybe like a Roadrunner was in there or then like a Mortal Kombat showed up. Dude, pole position was like in every 7-Eleven across America. Yeah. Or you go to Pizza Hut and they had the little cocktail cabinets that are always there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, sorry, you just sparked a memory there. A little nostalgia there. The last time I saw Pinball at Dave & Buster's, it was when X-Files was released. So, I mean, it's been a long time since I've seen, or at least I had an X-Files there. It's been a long time since I've seen it. So, congratulations to Jerry. Congratulations to Multimorphic. I'll say congratulations to Ryan Claytor, who's been covering this company. Yeah, good job. for a while and he's got some news. You know, it's something we've talked about. You're not always going to have news involved with your segments, but the correspondents always hustle up and they come up with some interesting tidbits, you know, during the course of the week for that company. Now, sadly, we had to say goodbye to Stephen Haberman, who was covering Jersey Jack Pinball for us for the last few weeks. You know, he's got things going on, which just wasn't conducive to him trying to get his his segment in every single week. And, you know, we wanted to thank him for coming in and covering because I thought he did a really good job. And I wish him well and, you know, no hard feelings. We appreciate his efforts. Absolutely. You know what? Honestly, October's around the corner, man. I mean, at that point, I might even have to take a few weeks back. Well, and that's the thing. Real life is so much more important than that. Family is definitely more important. It is. So now that being said, if somebody would like to cover Jersey Jack pinball for our correspondent list, go ahead and contact us at special when lit pinball podcast at gmail.com. Now we transfer over to Spooky Pinball, and it looks like they've got their fan club going on. And it's, what is it, $25 to get the swag? Bloodsuckers level. Or $350 if you want to suck the blood and the money out of everybody. No, I'm kidding. I'm assuming that that $350 and what it sounds like is. Buys you a spot. It allows you to jump the line, right? So that's really what it is. So I would just say, you know, you're tacking on $350 to the cost of the machine in order to have that. Now, if these reset every cycle, it would be $350 every single time a new game comes out. Right. So if $350 is worth it to you, and I know it is for a lot of people, for me, I probably would pay $350. If there's a spooky title, for instance, Scott Denise's next game is coming out. Now, we know that it takes spooky, what, like maybe a year or so to get 500, 600 pinball machines out? Sounds about right, yeah. And what did I talk about? We both talked about this. If I don't have a machine after 90 days of me putting an order in, I've lost interest. So for me, that $350 is peace of mind and assurance that I'm going to get the game. I'm going to be interested in the game. So where it might sound like a little bit shocking, if you really put it in perspective, especially with the cost of the Spooky Machines, $350 I think is a good deal and good for Chuck and good for KT, good for Bug and everybody at Spooky Pinball. If you can make a little bit of extra money and it involves allowing people to jump the line, I commend you for it. I think more manufacturers should consider doing that. Jump the line and get your pin. But I think other people would take this on the chin for trying to pull that move, though. Oh, interesting take. Well, here, let me play devil's advocate here for a second. Okay, yeah. So they are a smaller boutique company, and they don't push out as many games, right? Right. And they have a very, very loyal following, right? Correct Which is a beautiful thing I am not knocking that one bit I think they great people a good product good stuff But But Here we go If you throw Stern Pros Jurassic Park just hit the line If you can call up and say, hey, listen, I'll pay an extra $350 to get my game in the first month that it comes out, I think that they would be ridiculed and people would just not buy their stuff. I see your point. But the game cycle with Stern is so much shorter than it is with Spooky. So I think where I agree with you, I don't know that it would make sense, I guess, to your point, for a bigger company to do something like that. Yeah, I think for them that's a great move. Yeah. I don't know if I'd actually do that, but I mean I think it's very niche. I would 100% do it. I think it's very niche and works. Yeah. Stern, JJP, don't take a page out of that book, so I think you guys would just be ridiculed and lose sales. Nice. Actually, I love the take, man. It makes absolute sense. So go ahead. Get that money while you can there, Chuck. And allow people to jump that line, get that game for $3.50, small price to pay. And I'm sure you're getting other things, probably add-ons to your cabinet, added swag and bling. So it's not all for loss. You pay a little bit more. You are the cool kid on the block. You have your game first. And for a lot of people, that's what it's all about. It's about having something that somebody else doesn't have. And $350, it's not a big price to pay for that. Well, let's be real, and we can drop this after this. But, you know, with that kind of money, it's just going back into the games that they're developing. So, I mean, it's not for naught, you know. Right. They're not going to take another vacation to Japan with an extra $350. Yeah. It's tough. So, you know what? Go for it. Yeah. So, finally, we went to Brian Cosner, who's covering American Pinball. And not a whole lot going on over there that can be spoken about. They're still working on Oktoberfest, and they want feedback on the code. That's cool. Now, Deep Root paid out on those that needed to be made whole. Now, the way that this worked out, Zidware customers originally who had lost money on deposits on games were given the option by Deep Root Pinball saying, listen, we will go ahead and you can go ahead and drop your litigation against Zidware or against an employee. And then we will just go ahead and we'll compensate you by giving you a brand new machine or machines, depending on the amount of money that was lost during that company that never evolved. Now, those that jumped on and said, sure, I'll go ahead and I'll take this trade out, deep root and pose a deadline. They said, if we don't get your games to you by this date, we will give you a full cash settlement. And when that time came and went, Robert Mueller contacted everybody and said, listen, this is what it is. We can extend that deadline and we can still get you the game or we'll give you the cash settlement. Those that asked for the cash settlement were given their cash settlement. No questions asked. It sounds really smooth. My hat goes off to Robert and Deep Root for staying true to their word. Yep. Because remember, guys, they're not obligated to do any of this. So for those of you that may have lost money in Zidware and were able to recoup it from another company that's trying to put pinball out, I think it's a pretty commendable move in all honesty. So were they made whole or did they get half back? I don't know what the conditions were. But, I mean, at that point, even if they got – Something is better than nothing. A hundred bucks is better than nothing. You know what I mean? and there were thousands out. But from the way that I've been, from what I understand, what I've read for those that have commented on their settlements, everybody's very happy, and now there are those that are still in waiting for Deep Root to come out with their first game. Supposedly that we'll see in Houston around the November time period, and we're hoping to see, I think, Raza, which is... Retro Atomic Zombies Attack. Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland. Is that one. So we'll see what happens there. And then it brings us full circle now to the newest game that's been out released by Stern Pinball, Keith Elwin, and his newly designed Jurassic Park. Now, we had one of the first ones off the line. Yes. And we unboxed that, what was that, Friday? Thursday. Thursday of last week. Yes. So, first of all, let me ask your initial impression. Now, we saw the stream, but now you've had a chance to put, what, 10 games on this? Roughly. Roughly 10. And I probably have about 25 games on this. Now, the game is here in our studio, so Bill goes home. The game stays here. Bill played on pinball night. We hosted a pinball night last week on Thursday, and it was funny because our friends that we haven't really seen in months, because our typical pinball nights have been committed now to the podcast and the stream. Kind of suffered. It was great to see all those guys come back together because we haven't hung out in months. And then I think it was a special treat for those guys to come in and just see a Jurassic Park unexpectedly. This brand new game is here. Well, no one had any idea what kind of stuff you were going to have down here. No, no. And, I mean, they were pleasantly surprised with, you know, Meteor. Is Meteor? Yeah. I'm going in order, man. That was huge, right? Black Knight. TNA Whitewood. Well, TA Whitewood.

high confidence · Ken Cromwell announcement: 'We got new code on Jurassic Park...Keith Elwin who will be in chat for the first 20 30 minutes'

Community drama this week involves disputes between Bowen Cairns and Christopher Franchi over public shaming of inappropriate behavior, Pinside vs Penn Stadium over ad marketplace issues, and Tommy Floyd (Nitro Pinball) and his wife addressing sexual misconduct accusations

medium confidence · Ken Cromwell summarizing multiple unverified social media/Pinside incidents; hosts note they 'weren't there' and are relying on second-hand reports

The last pinball machine seen at Dave & Buster's before this P3 placement was X-Files, which has been a very long time ago

medium confidence · Bill recalling personal memory of X-Files at Dave & Buster's as most recent prior pinball sighting

“I really feel um his beautiful artwork just on this game I would still love to see it re-decaled but I did not like the playfield on the pictures that I had seen...”

Ken Cromwell @ ~45 min — Criticism of Johnny Crap artwork (comparing to 1993 Data East Jurassic) but acknowledges improved in-person appreciation

“We have Bowen Cairns versus Christopher Franchi saga where Chris Franchi is upset with Bowen Cairns because he believes that Bowen kind of picks and chooses people that aren't acting appropriately...”

Ken Cromwell @ ~51 min — Outlines one of three major community drama incidents; dispute over public accountability vs. selective shaming

“You know, I want to tread lightly on that because we weren't there. Right. You know, circumstances could be completely different. We weren't there, so we're just saying what we know...”

Bill @ ~58 min — Hosts acknowledge limitations of second-hand reporting on sexual misconduct allegations; editorial caution

Spooky Pinballcompany

Stern Pinballcompany

Dave & Buster'scompany

Spooky Oktoberfestgame

high · Dr. John: 'Coffin level coming in at $25...Bloodsuckers level comes in at possibly $350...membership goes from game cycle to game cycle'

market_signal: Hosts distinguish between boutique manufacturers like Spooky (slower production, loyal fanbase, jump-the-line tolerated) vs. major manufacturers like Stern (higher volume, would face backlash for same pricing)

high · Ken: 'If you throw Stern Pros...they would be ridiculed and people would just not buy their stuff...for them [Spooky] that's a great move'; Bill: 'it's very niche and works'

venue_signal: Dave & Buster's Austin now carries pinball machines (P3 units) for first time in 15+ years; represents breakthrough for Multimorphic in mainstream arcade chain placement

high · Jerry Stellenberg: 'Dave and Buster's got rid of pinball machines...this is the first time in my recollection they've committed to a pinball machine in over a decade'

community_signal: Escalating community drama involving public accountability vs. selective shaming disputes (Bowen Cairns/Christopher Franchi), Pinside ad marketplace saturation (Penn Stadium), and sexual misconduct allegations with community/family responses

medium · Ken Cromwell extensive summary: 'Chris Franchi is upset with Bowen Cairns...Pinside versus Penn Stadium...Tommy Nitro his wife jumped on Pinside and had some words'

manufacturing_signal: Spooky Pinball production rate estimated at ~500-600 machines per year; significantly slower than major manufacturers; jump-the-line membership reflects scarcity-driven demand

medium · Ken: 'Spooky...takes Spooky, what, like maybe a year or so to get 500, 600 pinball machines out'

regulatory_signal: Growing tension over moderation practices and public shaming in pinball community forums; debate about whether public callouts of inappropriate behavior are effective or excessive

medium · Ken: 'Chris doesn't appreciate that, where Bowen is kind of saying...hopefully this helps to let them know that they've made a mistake'

product_concern: Jurassic Park artwork by Johnny Crap receives mixed reception; hosts prefer 1993 Data East Jurassic visual style; in-person appreciation improves initial stream-based skepticism

high · Ken: 'I would still love to see it re-decaled but...when you have the game in front of you...you really have to get in front of a pin to kind of get full appreciation'

content_signal: Special When Lit streaming Jurassic Park with Keith Elwin live chat participation; new code debut on stream; integration of PinQuest challenges into streaming format

high · Ken: 'We're going to stream Jurassic Park tonight...Keith Elwin who will be in chat...we've been giving PinQuest challenges throughout our streaming nights'