thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast hey it is episode number 40 today my co-captain as always scott larson let's get let's talk about our friends the podcast really quick what do you think scott i think we should all right let's do it so first off uh one of our good friends brad hunter with lit frames he is um coming out with a new can we even talk about this he's coming out with a new frame and is this secret maybe it is secret but we're gonna tell you you get the you get the inside scoop he's coming out with a new frame and we've we've personally seen this and this thing is sweet i can't wait for you guys to see this um and also if you remember brad Brad Albright that was on our show back around christmas time talked about his artwork brad Brad Albright and brad hunter are teaming up to make some sweet artwork for you guys and i can't wait for you guys to see this so go check out his lit frames um either you can either get a lit frame now or you can wait till you see these sweet new plexiglass lit frames and they're beautiful uh up next we've got brian allen with fly land designs if you haven't checked out his alternate trans lights for medieval madness monster bash and attack for mars you've got to go check those out. They're wonderful. Just flylanddesigns.com. Flip N Out Pinball. I got the message today that hopefully next week, keep my fingers crossed, I should have my TMNT Pro in my house. If you didn't listen to the Gomez interview on Super Awesome Pinball Show, our homie Gomi gave us an explanation of why everything's been slow, how they've been ramping back up, and how production is getting up to where it was before. And they're even hiring more people. So that is awesome. So I'm excited to see my new TMNT Pro. And our final friend of the podcast, Jeff Patterson with This Week in Pinball. Go check out his website. He's still doing the thing on the Mondays where you get your email about what's happening that week, hitting you up on Tuesdays. He's still doing the giveaways. Jeff is an awesome friend of the show. We've been good friends since we began this show and he's just been great to us. And so if you can go check him out. He's still doing the Patreon. Hit him a couple bucks. He's a good guy. So I think that's it for us, Scott, at least for the friends of the podcast, not the show. Well, I think you have some explanation to do about the last podcast, too. It sounds like I was being the bossy pants and talking the entire time. So why don't you actually reveal what happened? Oh, my goodness. OK, first off, Mark was awesome. Mark lives in the United Kingdom. I don't know if anyone knows that. You could tell by his accent, right? Well, we really cater to our guests, and we don't want them to feel like they have to really adjust their schedule to be on our show. So we decided to do it. It was a Friday morning, Thursday morning. It was a Thursday morning. Thursday morning around 9, 30, 10. And so I record via my cell phone. That's why my vocals don't sound so great or the recording doesn't. But I don't mind doing that. But the problem is we started recording, and I got a text from my wife, and I had totally spaced that I had a dentist appointment. and so I rushed down to the dentist, and that's why you were talking is because you're like, I actually edited it out, and you guys are like, where did Josh disappear to? And then I had answered a question, but I actually had the stuff in my mouth. I had like a mouth guardian with a fluoride. And you're like, what the heck is going on over there? I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm at the dentist, guys. I totally spaced. And my wife's like, I told you. And I'm like, I know you did. I'm so sorry. So we're talking, and we hear the suction in the background going, But it turned out great. I mean, Mark was fantastic. I can't wait to have him back on the show. I mean, we had so much positive feedback from that interview. And was it Cosner? I can't remember if it was Cosner who said it best, but someone said, we are so fortunate to have someone like Marc Silk in the hobby because he's here to give his talent, and he doesn't really expect anything in return. And I agree. Mark is fantastic at what he does. And he's just an absolute treasure to this hobby. So that's what happened. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Okay. So officially we were both doing it, but Josh didn't have his recording mic on. And he apparently had a suction in his mouth at the same time. Well, if you notice, I started talking towards the end. I'm in the end a little bit more than I am the beginning, but that's what happened. I was at the dentist. After he said rinse and flush. Yes. All right. Okay. We've had our guests on the hold for five minutes now. If you've already read the title page, you probably know who it is. But, Scott, why don't you introduce our guest for us? So this man has been in the pinball hobby for over 30 years. He actually crossed over to be part of the industry roughly eight years ago when he was hired by Jack to be part of Jersey Jack. And he's had a lot of life-altering events that have happened this year that have changed his pinball path. but we'd like to welcome to the show Butch Peel. How are you doing today, Butch? Oh, I'm doing great. Thank you guys for having me. Heck yes. Well, I was shocked when Scott texted me. He's like, dude, the Butch Peel wants to be on our show, and I've heard so much about you these last couple of months. I was like, can't say no. Yeah, I've heard a lot about myself the last couple of months. It's been kind of bizarre. I think you found out more about yourself than you ever knew from other people. You know, yeah, I mean, it's been an interesting few months for sure. You know, I was busy working remotely like I have since day one with J.J.P. when I got the call. And that's really kind of how it came down. A phone call from an H.R. rep in Florida letting me know that the company no longer had a role for me. And it was kind of informed right at that point that that would be my final day with the company. And while we're talking on the phone to top it all off, the IT people beamed into my laptop and start cutting me out of everything and closing my accounts and changing my password. So I went from just working and doing my thing to 15 minutes later, unemployed. That's kind of a real kick in the teeth. Oh, I bet. You know, it's kind of funny because I've listened to many of my favorite people in pinball saying what a terrible feeling, you know, that it would be to let go of your from your pinball job, you know, be told that you're not needed anymore. And I can independently confirm now that it definitely 100 percent sucks. Well, you get to you get to hold that honor with the likes of Dennis Nordman now. So, well, he's he's got a few more companies than me, but I'm not looking to try and beat that record. Believe me, Steve Ritchie's been like a big people have been let go from pinball companies just because of staff swapping situations or different directions, I guess. True. But I don't consider myself a big person. I'm just a regular old guy. You know, I wasn't even sure when I got let go that anybody would even notice that I was gone. And, you know, then somehow Kaneda got warned of it. And how did, do you know how that happened or was it just like, did you know Kaneda or what? He's got some, some amazing sources in the industry. That's all I can say. I never even talked to the man before. And I have to say whatever else Kaneda has, has or hasn't done, he certainly got it right in my, in my case. He, he called it like it was, and it was kind of therapeutic to hear it actually. But, you know, and then I was feeling pretty low at that point. And, you know, Derek started this appreciation thread on Pinside. That was really very touching to me. I want to, you know, take a second here to thank everybody who took the time to write some stuff down there. It really helped pull me out of a kind of a dark place. And I was really overwhelmed and touched and really humbled by everything that people were saying there. And I can't thank you all enough, all of you people. You know how much I love you. Now, that was eight years of your time with the company. So how had things changed over time when you were there? Well, you know, I was recruited and hired by Jersey Jack Guarnieri himself. He gave, like I said, nobody like me this amazing opportunity. And my loyalty to him was and probably still is kind of unparalleled. I never would have ever quit that job at JJP. But, you know, the JGP that let me go really isn't a heck of a lot like the JGP that hired me eight years ago. The people in charge now, you know, they just don't seem to value the contributions a guy like me can make to the company. Never got much credit for, you know, writing detailed written documentation, for doing the service videos, for tech support, for customer relations, things like that. They decided they had those things covered with other people, I guess, and decided they wanted to move in a different direction. You got let go on that Friday, and then 72 hours later, you get another call, right? A different call. Yeah. I guess I must have done something right and gotten some people's attention in the past eight years because I got the call from JJP on Friday letting me go. And I got my first call from Chicago Gaming Company on the following Monday. So that was kind of exciting. Again, right about the time all the Canada stuff was hitting, I get this phone call from Chicago Gaming asking me if I have interest in, you know, working for their company. And I really wasn't looking for anything else. I was just going to kind of let the industry decide itself what was going to happen with me because I knew I loved it and I have a passion for it. But, you know, if I just wasn't needed or wanted anymore, then it would prove out in the pudding as time went by. And not much time went by before I got my answer. So that was kind of cool. That's way awesome. And then starting with a big bang there. My first day is June 1st, and I actually fly up to Chicago to meet everybody at the factory. And I land in the middle of a pandemic and riots both. I get on the ground, and they pick me up from the airport. And we're literally in the car driving around trying to find me a motel that's not downtown in Chicago because that was on fire the night before. Now, where is Chicago Gaming Company in relation to downtown Chicago? Like, I mean, is it closer to the Elk Grove area? It's in the southwestern portion of Chicago, Cicero, in fact, Chicago. Okay. Right down below Chicago, Cicero, Illinois. Sorry. So at least you weren't anchored to you have to be in the downtown area so you could get out of there. Right. Although there were some really interesting times around the Cicero plant, too. They were rioting within blocks of their liquor stores and things downtown. It was, I guess, a pretty exciting night the night before that I arrived. So I was talking to Doug Dubow about it. He was telling me all the different things he had to go through the night before. It was a little bit unnerving. Yeah, you know, I'm getting into my comfort zone now, though, with CGC. It takes a little while when you switch companies. You know, you've got your place. You know where you belong, your niche, things that you do and who you work with and all that. So it's getting to know a bunch of new people. I'm making some videos with CGC now, learning their tech support system, familiarizing myself with how their games work, which are obviously quite different from the JJP games that I've known. And I'm having a lot of fun again. These have been very warm and welcoming people to me. It's like a family there, and I already feel like I'm part of it. It's really cool. So I want to rewind a little bit. You've been an enthusiast in the hobby for 30-plus years. And when you cross that threshold from being a hobbyist to working in the industry, What are some of the major things that surprised you or that were confirmatory by you joining ranks with a pinball company? Well, my background was I worked for the Army Research Lab as an electrical engineer for 30-plus years before I got into the pinball industry. I kind of started, I worked part-time for Jersey Jack Pinball the last five years I worked for the U.S. Army. and so when I retired from the U.S. Army in 2017 working for the Army I wasn't in the Army I was part of the Army behind the Army kind of thing but I was dealing with a lot of things like you know IED jammers and things like that that we did on a day-to-day basis and I was I was just kind of shocked by how people in pinball were thinking you know like this is like you know doomsday stuff if this game doesn't get out if this doesn't happen you know it's like wow let me put things in perspective for you guys when it's people's lives on the line. It's a whole different ballgame. So, you know, pinball machines, this is fun. And if you can't have fun working for a pinball machine company, you know, you got a real problem. But it was cool to actually start meeting and talking more. You know, once you get in the industry, people like Steve Ritchie and Mark Ritchie and Greg Freris and Dennis Nordman, a bunch of these people that I had met as a fan boy back in the day. It was kind of cool to talk to them as, you know, kind of like peers now. And, you know, like I was enjoying working and talking with these guys at shows and seeing them again, seeing them on a regular basis. I was telling my friends, you know, you've got to, you know, you've really made it when you're working on a pinball machine in the corner of a hall the day before the Texas Pinball Festival opens. And Steve Ritchie walks clear across the room to come say hello to you. I mean, that was pretty cool. That was way cool. Well, and you're still friends with Jack and whatnot down there at JJP. I mean, this wasn't like it was just a shunning of sorts, right? Yeah. I mean, Jack and I are great friends. I love the guy. He loves me. We talk still quite a bit. But he sent me a really nice photo montage of some times we spent together and some laughs we had when I was with JJP on my birthday this past weekend. So that was really cool. Very touching. Now, it seems that at least the way I look at things, and I think most people in the industry look at it this way, is that Stern was kind of gasping in the late 2000s. They were releasing Monopoly, Wheel of Fortune, these games that really didn't have much – they weren't that interesting, really. And they seemed to be scaling down when Jack came out and said, hey, we're going to build this machine, and this is what we're going to do. It seemed to light a fire under everybody. and really you see that I would say that what you guys did in the early days of Jersey Jack really started this pinball renaissance of building a better, more interesting, more intricate and a more immersive experience. Tell me about that. Oh, that that that's 100 percent right. I mean, that's just it was really cool to I had to pinch myself over and over again to get such an amazing opportunity to work with with Jack and get in on the ground floor and be there when the, I helped build the first eight wizard of Oz games that went to IAPRA the first year in 2013. That was just, just way cool. And, and yeah, he had to, he had to start a company to get, be able to have games to sell that, that people wanted his, his customers. He went from being Stern's number one distributor to just selling, you know, a couple of hundred games a year. And it, and it, And it didn't take very long to happen. They were just getting tired of the same stuff over and over again. And don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Stern. I mean, God bless Stern. They kept pinball going all this time. There never would have been a Jersey Jack pinball. There never would have been my chance if it hadn't been for Stern keeping pinball going. And I know they had some tough times. But, you know, we brought a lot of attention to pinball again. And, you know, I used to tell people at shows it was just amazing to look out at the myriad of faces at these shows. And I said, you know, I've been to a lot of different types of events where you can look out and you can see by the faces and the people around what kind of a show that you're at, you know, if you're at a comic convention or you're at, you know, some kind of a science convention or you're doing something with the military, you know, just that people have this all the same look. But you looked out across a pinball show at all these people and it's just amazing the the you know the cross-section we have people you know with spiked up hair and and mohawks and tattoos and earrings and girls and boys and men and women and old men and old women and you i would defy a lineup of people at a pinball show to be identified by somebody as you know what they all came together for and it's really cool pinball has that kind of effect on people well it's because it brings out the inner child right like everyone wants to still be young at heart and pinball gives that the nostalgia the fun the physicality of the game i mean the randomness yeah yes it's not a video game if i turn left and do this exact same thing i can try to do that the same way on the next ball in pinball but i'm going to fail within seconds of being able to repeat completely what i did on the last ball for sure it's just fun yeah and each game is really so different. And really the interesting thing about, you are right, taking nothing away from Stern Stern kept pinball really on life support in the 2000s when there was not much else I would just point out as you said I think Jersey Jack opened the door to say hey, there are other things that you guys can do. And then we know what Stern has done the last 10 years. They've had probably the best run they've ever had. And it's all based on Jersey Jack saying, hey, why don't you put an LCD back there? Why don't you put more in the game? Why don't you build a more complex machine that can compete with other things? Really, you guys came out roughly about the same time as that documentary, Special When Lit, which I know has issues with it. And I know they certainly don't portray the average pinball player in a positive light. In some ways, it feels a little spinal tap. Wow, you're being very kind. Yeah. Yeah, it feels a little mockumentary type. But if you look at that, that would have been the end point of pinball if you guys hadn't come along. But Jack was crazy. I mean, I saw him talk. I saw him and Gary Stern talk at the Texas Pinball Festival in 2011. Jack had just launched his company. We're talking March of 2011. He started on the 1st of January. And I saw Gary Stern talk before him. and people are asking all kinds of questions in the audience you know why can't we have a wide body game why can't we you know put a little more of this in the game and and you know gary would just give just these kind of uh i don't know put offish standoffish type answers that you know that's not going to happen no no forget about that no that'd be way too difficult and then jack comes over there and jumps and runs across the stage and leaps up on there and says let's see gary stern do that you know and then he starts talking about this game that he's just going to knock out of the park and and they didn't just try to you know incrementally make everything in the game better with that first game with Wizard of Oz everything was a quantum leap every single aspect of the game had to be a quantum leap and yeah it was I tell people all the time you know I worked for Jersey Jack that you'll never see another pinball machine that has all in it like like Wizard of Oz the It's just not going to happen again. It almost bankrupted a company. Well, that's just crazy. Selling everything that was in Wizard of Oz, and the original price for a Wizard of Oz first time was $6,500. Yeah, before they decided all the things that were going to be in it. What's funny is my cousin that got me into the hobby, it must have been right before Jack could unveil the Wizard of Oz because he was talking. I was like, do they still make these? We were sitting there. He played Circus Voltaire. We're playing Simpsons Pinball Party. He said, yeah, there's even a new company coming around, and they're making Wizard of Oz. I said, oh, really? He said, yeah, but they're asking $6,500, and no one's ever going to pay that kind of money for a pinball machine. I think he was wrong. Absolutely. Hindsight's wonderful like that, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. And that sounded like a large bit of money back then. You know, people jump on Jack for setting the price point and bringing up the cost of games and all that. And then they jump on him for not charging enough for the game because of the bill of material costs and all those sorts of things. But, you know, the guy has passion and the company had passion back then. It was an amazing, amazing experience working for Jersey Jack Pinball in those years. yeah and i would say that i have wizard of oz for all those reasons is that i not my and we've even bought some of the extra mods to put in there you know the the red smoke witch mod and the oz lanes and i got the new uh the flying monkey mod and you know all these fun things just because it is a different machine than um all the other ones and you're telling me i helped you fix yours one time too yeah i actually pulled i did pull up um like you actually tried to help me it was still beyond my ability so i actually hired the guy the local guy to come fix it but uh the truth comes out well you try i actually pulled up the email when we were talking and uh in the castle on the upper left one of the doors wasn't opening so so you'd knock it all and only one door would open and it turned out the motor was bad. And so I would have had to have him come back and fix it anyway. But we have a really great tech out here. So he was able to diagnose it really quickly. What did you tell me? Actually, it was funny because you texted me, or a friend of mine, Lee Bellhumer, texted me and said, hey, I'm going to give your phone number to these guys at the Loser Kid podcast. I think they'd like to have you on their show. And that was the day that JJP let me go. I had to answer that text to him saying, I don't work for JJP anymore. Yeah. It was kind of difficult. And then we started talking, you and I, by text. Would you tell me about your game? Wait, which one? The Wizard of Oz? About the fingerprints, yeah. Oh. I can't remember what I said. You told me that my fingerprints were all going to be on your game. And I told you a little bit of Windex will clear that right up. No, it's just like, well, Lee's a great friend. And obviously, now you and I had talked. We met at the Rocky Mountain Pinball Festival last year. And we even played a few games in the back corner. I remember we played X-Men with a different code on it. And there was a Dungeons and Dragons there that I plunged the ball. and actually the post broke off. I was like, sorry, dude. Medic, medic. Just broke your game. I felt bad about that, but I'm like, I wasn't doing anything bad about it. Yeah. Sometimes with those shows, you just walk from game to game, and it seems like everything you touch is either broken or you break it in the process. But that's pinball, you know. That's one of the things Jack always used to say, you know. It ain't broke, it ain't pinball. Yeah. So so tell me more about your behind the scenes. So exactly what was your role at Jersey Jack and now transitioning? What is your role at Chicago Game Company? Oh, the way I started with with Jersey Jack was like, you know, so many other people did. I saw I saw him talk and and saw how excited he was about his his product. And I went and placed a preorder, you know, and put some money down. And my wife is a huge, huge Wizard of Oz fan. You know, she's got plates and music boxes and figurines and stuff all over the house. And she loves pinball, too. And she says, a Wizard of Oz pinball. We got to have that. And I told her, yeah, that's great. But I don't know how we're going to afford that. I've never bought a new in-box game before. I always bought older ones that were beat up and fixed them up myself. But so, you know, I went and saw Jack Talk in 2011 at the Texas Pinball Festival. And I started emailing him, you know, picking my game number and all that stuff for my Wizard of Oz. And he's very approachable. You know, you dialed his number and he answered the damn phone. It was crazy. And so we talk and he started asking for, you know, some people to give him some kind of slogan for his company. And I was up at my mom and dad's house, you know, visiting for the weekend. and I had my feet propped up on the table with a cup of coffee in my hand, just got up, and I saw the little post on his forum there, and I answered one. I put down, you know, Jack of all trades, master of fun. I knew from talking and seeing him that he was just so proud of all the things he'd done in pinball, all the different roles he'd played, and how much he thought a game had to be fun to actually be a success. So it just kind of popped into my head, And then I went away from the computer for a while. I didn't notice that he selected it. And somebody put on there, you know, pin butch, which was my label at that time. You know, Jersey Jack picked your slogan. Congratulations. I'm like, holy cow. And he patented it and trademarked it, all this stuff. So that was kind of cool. And so we kept talking, talking. I would email him back and forth. And one day I talked to my wife and I said, you know, I wonder if Jack has given any thought to having like a factory authorized repair place for his circuit boards and stuff. Because, you know, I'm trying to think of some way anyway that I could be part of this company and I could help. I could do something just like a bunch of other people were at the same time. And so I said, you know what, I'm going to I'm going to pitch that idea to him. And so I sent him an email and we got on the phone and talked about it a little bit. And by this time, you know, it's rolled around. It's now 2012. The Texas Pinball Festival is coming up. He says, you know what? Why don't we meet when I come to Texas? You'll be at that show, right? And I said, yeah. He says, why don't we meet and have dinner and we'll talk about a few things. He says, I'd like to find a place for you in the company. And I just about dropped my phone, you know. I was thinking, oh, my God, I think I might have done it. You know, because like I said, everybody was wanting to help Jack. And I saw that after I started working with Jack. It's like tons of people offering. Is there anything I can do? What could I help with? You know, I want to be involved with this because could I do this for you? Could I do that? I don't know why he chose me. I really just feel blessed for the opportunity that he gave me. But so I met him in 2012. We went out to eat. and um that that was a real um ordeal too we were trying to find some place to not eat meat on good friday because it happened to be good friday when we were there and jack is a is a big catholic guy i was raised catholic but um let's just leave it at that and uh so we went to ended up eating at at a in and out burger and he's he's like jack is like mr internet guy you know always got to tag himself where he's at show and he's telling his wife and his his priest and everything what he's doing and i'm like oh this guy's crazy and uh so he he actually in the seminar in 2012 at texas pinball festival he he called me out in the audience he says this is butch peel here and i was there with all my family and everything it was really cool and um he says uh he says that guy's had me stand up he says that guy's gonna work for me he's gonna do tech support for me and and you know i'm gonna have him teach people how to fix our games and so that's kind of how it started and then 2012 kind of almost ended before we could get to the point where we had games and i could actually start you know he wanted to bring me up to the factory show me all how everything worked and get learning how the games worked and all that but they were having trouble getting the the line going and all that and the factory stood up and all that and so you know I kept asking him can I come can I come and he's like well we're not ready yet we're not ready yet and I said is there anything else I can do he says well I need somebody to write the manual and I said well you know I'm kind of the rare electrical engineer I actually can write too and within about two minutes he was forwarding me all these files and he had all the mechanical guys sending me drawings and boom you know it was we took off as like grabbing hold of a of a 70 mile an hour train going down the track and then in 2013 at the texas pinball festival i was giving the texas pinball festival seminar for jersey jack i was representing the company Jack wasn't there. So it was kind of a whirlwind. Well, and I kind of want to bounce back to CGC because you've been in the hobby for, what did Scott say, 30 years? Yeah, 30 plus. So you obviously have grown up or fallen in love with the old Williams Bally games. And now you get to work on them and whatnot. What is that like? And my second question, my follow-up question is, is your favorite Bally Williams game already made, or what game would you like to see be made? Okay, let's see. Start with the first question. Yeah, I cut my teeth on a lot of the Williams stuff. Actually, that's where I learned how to fix and repair. I used to do through the mail. I'd repair circuit boards for Valley and Williams games from the old days, the old classic Valleys and the Williams and stuff from the 90s and all that. Those are some cool systems to work on. And, you know, I used to fix all these different kinds of games, work on all different kinds of games, all different manufacturers, all different eras. I would use my machines that I have in my shop as test fixtures for people's boards. I'd repair them, test them, send them back to them. and I would use a lot of their documentation, and I would read these manuals, and I remember coming across certain things in certain manuals from certain manufacturers from certain eras that I thought were incredibly useful. And then at the other end of that spectrum, I remember coming across a bunch of things, trying to find something I was looking for and thinking, this is the most worthless stuff I've ever seen. This is completely useless. And then errors in there would drive you crazy when they have something misprinted or something like that. So, you know, being an electrical engineer and a perfectionist kind of guy, being able to work with the manuals, I knew what should go in a manual and what shouldn't. And I really had my idea, a clear thought of what, you know, a Butch Peel manual would look like. And so, yeah, I'm excited to be working with the same Williams and Bally things with CGC again. And it's kind of like when I say I'm trying to familiarize myself with how they work, I'm more talking about their electronics side. It's a completely different ballgame from what JJP had. But, you know, JJP was using some of the same things. I did videos for, you know, the standard Williams flipper mechanisms, pop bumpers, slingshots and all. I think they're still on JJP's website. I don't think they've taken them down. but um so yeah it's it's very exciting to to kind of circle back to that and i've kind of laid in bed at night sometimes thinking about what how cool it would be to take to write the kind of manual that i wrote for jjp and that kind of detail for old williams and bally games you know i was i was kind of thinking about pitching that idea to gene cunningham way back in the day when he had the rights to that but uh i didn't quite get around to it and when you talk about my favorite game that's kind of a long answer that's my roger sharp answer right there nothing wrong with that we have another four hours to go yeah set the alarms but my my favorite my favorite game from the old bally williams days i think it's it's almost a tie with medieval madness and monster Bash are so close. I think Monster Bash probably is a very, very close second, but I love both of those games, and I thought they were spot on in doing those early on in their remakes. I think those are games people really wanted to have, and what I really love about what CGC is doing is that they're actually able to put their stamp on it. They're taking something from a day where there were really no games made for collectors back in those days. These games were made to be on route. They were made to be paid to play. And you didn't have them in your home and stuff like that. So that's why there's so many mods now being made for these older games, because you're adding some cool features that just weren't cost effective back in the day. And that's where CGC is really kind of stepping to the forefront. And Chicago Gaming has made some huge quantum leaps in how those games, some of the technology in those games, the, you know, the repairability of them, the maintainability of them, and then just the cool features, you know, that they're able to stick on these games now, especially in the limited edition. That's really where the company kind of shines and gets to show off what they can do is the mods that they've added to limited edition games. And they just make a really great game that much better. And it's kind of cool to to be now in the process of talking about what we can do with the next game and stuff with the, with a real team that values your input and wants you involved in everything. Doug's told me that, you know, I want, I want you involved in everything. And I'm like, well, that's, that's good. Cause I like to be involved in everything. Now I, I completely agree with you. I have the original, um, the, the standard, uh, medieval madness remake. And when they came out with the Attack from Mars, I actually ordered that day when I saw it. And I said, I need to have the limited edition. It was great. I didn't really have room in my collection for Monster Bash, but my friend down the street bought it. And I'm so excited that you guys made it available to upgrade my Medieval Madness to a Royal type edition where I'm able to buy my topper. I'm able to buy the light fixture. I'm able to buy all the extra paneling. And so I'm excited that I just got the confirmation email that says, hey, are you still interested? I'm like, yes, I'm still interested in upgrading everything. And it looks fantastic. I love what you are right. What you guys have done with the LE has taken it to a next level. You have hot rodded the game up so much. It is great. It takes a game that over 20 years old and it modernizes it Yeah there so many cool things And I love the idea of upgrading the old game too Because Medieval Madness was such a special case I mean, it was obviously the first game you had to make. I mean, that's the first game that everybody wanted. And so at that time, it was kind of such a convoluted situation and so many different people involved and who was going to do it and how it was going to come to be that they really didn't do much with adding any special bells or whistles to it. It was just, we can make the game and prove that. That in itself will be a huge contribution to the hobby and the industry. And it was. And now that you're able to come in and put some bells and whistles on these other new games, it kind of made Medieval Madness look a little bit kind of left out. So that redheaded stepchild syndrome. So I'm glad to see it got its facelift too. and it's got its whiz-bang things that we're adding to it. So with you being the technical guy for CGC, you've got to settle debate, and may this one never be settled. Do you think the older ones play better, or do you think the new CGC remakes play better? You know, people used to ask me that a lot at shows, you know, what do you think of those? Because I have all the original games as well. I've collected those and restored my own games. I did my Monster Bash way back when I used to have some time. It was crazy. But, you know, when you remake all of the – not remake, that's a bad choice of words. When you rebuild all of the parts in those old games, they play like a brand-new game, and they really play great. And early on, unfortunately, some of the things – and Jersey Jack went through this as well, weak flippers, where the flippers weren't working as well as they're supposed to. You know, we had a lot of complaints with that, with Wizard of Oz early on too. And their coils would heat up, and I would like to play. I had one of my best games on a Medieval Madness, one of the remakes early on, and I just, as I got to my third ball, I couldn't make that ramp anymore with the dragon. It was going halfway up and coming back down, And you could just tell that the, you know, the flippers were getting weak on me. And so I kind of held that in the back of my mind for a long time. But now that I've got the new CGC games, I have games of my own here in my house now from CGC. And they play great. I mean, they've gotten through those early days where you're figuring some of those things out. Flippers are a tough thing. And so I would say they're about the same now. I don't see a real huge difference in them. And I wouldn't even really say one's better than the other. I think they're pretty equivalent now in terms of how they play. Now, tell me about you sent me some pictures and you're doing a play field swap right now. Why don't you tell me a little bit about that? Oh, that's, you know, since I I worked when I worked for the Army, I used to do my pinball stuff in the afternoons and evenings and the weekends. And since I retired in 2017, I've just been, it's been pinball all day, every day, 24-7, 365, in some way, shape, or form all the time. And one of the things that I do, I have a friend that has arcade bar, my buddy Alex Macias. I'll say hi to him there. Shameless plug for his arcade bars down here. I help him keep his pinball machines going. So he has a couple of different locations with, you know, 10 to 15 games each in them. and it's a challenge, boy, but it's also good to see people playing pinball and, you know, putting in the coins and flipping the flippers, even when the kids are doing them over and over, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, and you're trying to tell them, hey, you know, if you're waiting for somebody to pitch you a baseball, you don't just start swinging as soon as they move their arm, do you? Because you'll never hit the ball that way, right? You should wait for the ball to come to you, then swing. That's what you need to do, the flippers. The parents look at me like, who are you to talk to my kid? Yeah, that kind of thing. But anyway, we, we, I help him keep his games going and he always, you know, would play my games at my house and he'd say, you know, I want to have a monster bash one of these days. And so he, he bought one and it was a re-import from France and man, those guys really, really did a job on that game. It was, it was really beat up a lot of, a lot of homemade welding and a lot of extra, you know, special switches and things like this that these guys added to the game over there modified it and when he got to bring it into my shop finally and it's been sitting in my shop for several years that's how long it takes me to get things anymore he uh he finally decided well i'm going to spring for a new play field so i'm doing a play field swap for a monster bash when my monster bash came in from cgc and he didn't want to even play my new one he wanted to get his going first so they could play it and then he would play mine so he just looked at mine then he he played his and he's still happy as original there's something about the original games too that's just cool the williams logo and all that stuff is just pretty neat stuff but you know anything to do with pinball i've pretty much taught myself how to do i i enjoy the heck out of everything pinball i tell people that it shows and stuff all the time too i could talk pinball all day long all night long you know there's There's nothing about it that doesn't excite me. Meanwhile, my wife's washer and refrigerator may be on the blink or whatever. The car don't work, but I can't stand working on that stuff. But give me a broken pinball machine, and I've got to get in there and try and fix it. It just drives me crazy. So I don't know if you can answer this question or not, Butch, and I don't know if you know the answer to the question. If you don't, just say, we can move on. But there's been a lot of releases lately. Monster Bash came out it's almost been two years hasn't it um can you tell us if there's a new game coming anytime soon oh yeah okay yeah that and I think someone asked a while back you know what I'd be doing for for Chicago Gaming I'm going to be doing a lot of the same things that I was doing before it's just um you know it's kind of like my thing it's it's it's what I feel I'm I'm pretty good at. You know, customer relations, talking to people, I'll be attending shows. I'll still be coming to shows, just have a little different shirt on. That's all standing in front of different games, but still the same guy that loves pinball. And I'm going to be working on, you know, manuals in future and doing tech support, helping with their tech support system. I'm already making a few videos for the company, doing something for their video games first. And then since I got my Chicago Gaming pinball machines in last week. I took a ton of footage when I was unpacking them, so I'm making an unboxing your CGC pinball machine video right now currently too. So it's a lot of the same things. And obviously they wouldn't have hired me if they didn't have anything else coming down the pike. So, yeah, there's definitely some things coming. well and my very first my only new unboxing i've ever bought was monster bash limited edition and the boxing on it was fantastic it just it was a wonderful game i i ended up just barely selling it uh to make room for for more new games but the the quality of the build on these games are just fantastic i i love my cgc games and um i have no complaints with them and i know scott owns you own all of them except for monster bash right yeah yeah i do and my my buddy owns uh all of them and that's the only reason why i don't have a monster bash is because he is a huge uh valley williams 1990s that's his wheelhouse and so i go over to his house and i see these amazing games he has a restored scared stiff he has a circus volterra that's the nicest i've ever seen he has the nice whitewater he has indiana jones i all these games that i so i i've adopted part of his collection as part of mine just feeling that if i ever want to go play it it's just down the street and so that's the reason why i didn't get the monster bash but i love it it's a fun game yeah josh you're you're 100 right i mean the the build quality i was just amazed with uh when as i was unboxing these games how sturdy they're built like a tank i mean you got down to the smallest details. You got, you know, steel, I'm trying to think of the word here, the speaker panels, the steel speaker panels, and the speakers in there don't look like something that, you know, you got out of a Radio Shack trash can behind there. You know, they're fancy looking speakers. The sound systems are amazing. They're mounted on Delrin blocks with routed out areas for the wiring to go down inside so nothing gets pinched. And then there's the huge, that no one else has, a huge advantage is, you know, Chicago Gaming is also Churchill Cabinets, and they make their own playfields. They make their own cabinets. And, I mean, when you've got, when you're a cabinet builder, you have these fixtures for putting a cabinet together that are amazing. And I saw them when I was up there. all four sides it's like a gigantic four-sided clamp as big as a pinball cabinet standing up you put the pieces in there you brad them together you glue the heck out of everything and then you just clamp it together and let it dry and when it when it's done i mean you could park a truck up on top of it they're just amazing and when you're only doing taking that from one part of your factory to the you know opposite half where you actually start putting pinball parts in it and your play field comes from back there right after it was clear-coated and it's just walked up, pushed with a cart up to the assembly line. I mean, that's just a huge advantage. You don't have, there was so many headaches in getting pinball playfields shipped in, in the quality. When the left hand is deciding how good your quality, your right hand gets. I mean, it doesn't get any better than that. You've got a vested interest that's just amazing, and a leg up in doing that. It's a really cool situation. Okay. I actually was, while you were talking about it, I pulled up the website. I was looking at the different options there just because of what you were talking about, and I clicked on the discontinued products, and there's Vacation America Pinball. Oh, wow. Yeah. I have never heard of this. I saw that. I saw that. Yeah, it's like the worst game ever made or something like that. No, no, no, no, no. That's not true. That's not a good way to say that, John. It's not true. Sorry. Thunderbirds hold that solidly in number one. Yeah, and maybe you'd phrase it more like it's not so much fun to play. It's not got so much stuff in it, but it's very well made. I can guarantee you that. I saw it up there. And Doug showed it to me, and he was showing me a lot of the things that he did. making things a little bit different. And it's like, you know, that's really cool because Doug's a really neat guy. He wants to be involved in everything too. And not just, you know, look over your shoulder and not in a second guessing, you know, micromanaging kind of way. But in a, you know, I'm really interested in how this works. Show me or I'm going to help, you know, learn on my own so I can make some suggestions and speak intelligently of what you're doing with you. so he he actually is not afraid to go in there and say you know the pop bumper's been made like this for a long long time well i'm going to make it a little bit different for this game when i try and make my first pinball machine and that's what he did and he was showing me the unique kind of assembly that he put together and i'm like that that makes a lot of sense and then you know some of the things that happen with with williams valley um pop bumpers over time the way they wear and all that and the difficulty of taking those apart and how everything the wiring has to go through the skirt and through the body and through the play field and through all these brackets and everything it just makes a lot more sense to do things the way he was doing it and we may end up doing some more things like that maybe make some changes in the future we'll see it's going to be fun i will have to admit i would i was excited to get a vacation in America one time. But the thing was, is it was posted. I found it in six minutes and it was being given away for free. And so I was like, I will be there now. I will be there now. You owned this? No, I didn't get to it fast enough. No. When someone gives away a free pinball machine, it brings out. Yeah. So many people think they want a free pinball machine. They really do. It worked. It turned on. It looked good. Yeah. Well, hey, it looked in good condition too. So it was like Rat Race. You remember that movie Rat Race where everyone is like, go! And everyone just started going. That's it. Yeah, that's what it was. Okay, so let's talk about Under the – because obviously in your remakes, the top is the same. Or at least you're trying to capture that nostalgic feel. But really, Underneath, it's a completely different game because it's not using the technology that was used 20 years ago. They've updated it. and I know some people have talked about, oh, well, you can't work on those. It's like working on a new car. You can't work on new cars. You have to have the old stuff, but I don't know. It seems weird that pinball is one of the few fields that is hesitant to adopt new systems, new change, better technology. Yeah, it's not true. You can work on those games, and pinball is, I don't know, One of the things that really intrigued me about pinball when I was first learning it, when I was still going to school learning how to be an electrical engineer, was all the electrical and mechanical and the interaction between electrical and mechanical that was just really cool. And there's just so much mechanical in a game that you've got plenty to work on, because the mechanical part is what wears out for the most part. I mean, electrical stuff, just plain old brakes. mechanical actually wears and and you know holes get kind of wallowed out and and things start breaking off and bending and all the adjustments and all the things that make a pinball machine really play well and dial it in well those those are all mechanical stuff there's there's a few electrical options now obviously with strengths and things like that but there's there's still plenty to fix on a game it's not like oh my god a cgc game you lift the hood and oh my god i can't work on that you know um yeah it's a you'll see a lot of the same sort of things that you've seen all along because a lot of the bill of material is is identical to what it was back in the day i mean it doug one one huge thing that that he moved away from was the uh was the matrixed version of switches and lamps and things like that you know even jjp moved away from matrix lamps because you're using LEDs now and you're going to control those in a whole different way than just turning on and off an incandescent bulb, which was real easy to do with this matrix thing. And the whole idea of matrix wiring was to reduce wiring under the playfields. You know, you could get 64 switches and 64 lamps under a pinball playfield that you could independently control by just running, you know, eight sets of wires and white ones, eight sets of green ones, eight sets of yellow and eight sets of red ones, and just daisy chain them from lamp to lamp or switch to switch. But then you had to have the diodes in there and all that and had to, if you hook it to the wrong one, if something comes loose, if a diode breaks, if a wire breaks, you put it in the wrong lug, the wrong side of the diode, you can get some really crazy stuff going on that matrix. And Doug just like, that was one area where he said, I just don't want to have to learn all that. And so our games aren't going to have matrixed switches. They're going to have switches that are just wired in. And then you think, oh my God, then you're going to have this wiring nightmare. Well, no, you're not. Because instead of using this bundle of cable that looks like the telephone wire at one of these corners of a major intersection in a big city under your play field, you've got a big printed circuit board. What better way to replace wires than just a bunch of traces on a printed circuit board? That's why the huge printed circuit boards under the play field. It's replacing a ton of wiring and allowing you to get away without having a matrix switch setup, which very much simplifies things in terms of the way people think. You just got two wires going out to a switch. They connect to two of the lugs. When the two wires touch together, it makes the switch. You don't have to worry about a diode. You don't have to say, why does that one hook there and this one hook there? It all makes a lot more sense, and it all becomes a lot more standardized and simple. Well, and I think that's one of the things, too. When you first open up a CGC, you look underneath, like my attack from Mars, and you're like, what the heck is that? That circuit board is huge. But that makes sense now. I guess I'd never thought about how much wiring it cuts out to have that big circuit board in there. That's pretty awesome. And it's very cheap to have it made in large numbers. They're not expensive when you order a bunch of those big circuit boards. And then you can have it all made on one great big sheet of fiberglass, and you just snap off the little pieces that you'll use in other places in the game. It's really quite ingenious. And it works really well. I've been very excited about learning how all that hooks together under there. You know, the downside is, obviously, if you have a problem with something on that big board, you have to kind of replace the whole board. It's not kind of modular. But the sorts of things that they have on those are the LEDs which have a forever lifetime to them the vibration doesn seem to be causing problems and things to to fail i mean i i looking at the help desk on chicago gaming every day and man we've we've got a really hot day when we've got two problems being worked i mean it's there's not a lot of issues with the games they're they're very well made and the people that make them up at the factory up there really care about what they're doing and they're really good at it and yeah it's a fantastic product i'm proud to be associated with it i am too i mean like i said i have my attack from mars i had my monster bash and i've only had one or two issues with with both of them combined and um i called in and i think it was ryan white was originally there i don't know if he's still there yes he is and he he walked me through everything pretty quickly and he addressed all of my concerns and then i i had the plastics you know how the the first run of those attack from mars the plastics would crack or whatnot send me out a whole new pair of plastics no problem and uh i mean just took care of me like i i have no complaints when it comes to cgc i think they're definitely ahead of the curve uh with their product just because It's built so well, and the customer service is amazing. I'm glad to hear that. Glad to hear that. Well, I was actually just looking at the toppers. So I actually just bought a few toppers, and I'm still amazed at the toppers you guys are able to make at Chicago Gaming Company for the remakes. All three of them are unbelievable, and I can't wait to see what the next game comes out with and what you guys are going to come out with because I have 3D sculpt up there and the Attack from Mars one that goes up and down. That's pretty amazing. Yeah, it's interactive and really cool. Yeah, I love what you guys are doing there. Yeah, I really can't wait to see what you do for the next one. It'll be cool. I love how you package these toppers too. Oh, they're great. They're bulletproof. Oh, yeah. When I got my monster bash, I'm like, what's in this coffin of a box? and you know you're tearing it apart there's a topper in here you know i know i'm using the box from my from my games from the toppers from my games that came in i'm repurposing them and making shelving units for my daughter's dorm room with them i mean they're they're built like a tank even the box that's just to make sure it gets there safe yeah it's just great i i kept it for uh for about two years because i was like i don't know if i can throw this away i finally had to clear out my garage and so it did finally go but uh yeah it's it's built like a tank i actually had a different topper that was shipped to me and they had dropped it in transport and so i need to send it back because it got dented but um yeah it didn't get dented it got like torn apart dude okay don't get torn apart all right yeah but you know the good news is uh i got it from zach at flipping out pinball i talked to him and he just said send it back and we'll get another one and And that's totally fine. I was looking at it trying to figure out how to fix it, but ultimately it just was beyond me. So, again, Zach at Flip It Up Pinball, he said, no question, just send it back and we'll get another one. But I was looking at your toppers and I was thinking, man, if every game that came out had a 3D molded topper, that would be amazing. And the lighting and stuff is crazy, too. My buddy that I did the Monster Bash play field swap for, he's like, I'm not really a topper guy, but that topper is amazing. It's really crazy what they did. And the lighting in the game, it changes everything. I mean, the lighting is so important. Those RGB LEDs are amazing. Yeah, it's so much fun. It's just the Attack from Mars one is fantastic because it's just, it interacts with you. You press the start button and it depends on the game, but it hops up and down. And you're really coming back to attack me, and he laughs at you. It's amazing. I love it. Oh, no, you again. Yeah, I love that stuff. Oh, it's perfect. Those are great games. Okay, so the games you got, did you get the standard ones, or did you get the SE, or did you get the LE? Because you got all three of them coming down to you, Bush. Yeah, well, you know, that's one of the cool parts about my job is I need to be able to support the product. and I'm going to make videos and whatever else excuse I could think of to get them to send them to me. But no, they're very accommodating. It's like they understand completely. And so these are my new games. I'm very proud of them. And they are LE equivalents. They're not – Scott said all three, but is it only three? Wink, wink. So far, wink, wink, yeah. Hey, you know what? We at Loser Kid Pinball, we are willing to be test locations for you. We have two locations in Utah. That is so nice of you. Yeah. Amazing. It's a private location with no cameras, and so we get out. So we're happy to test those for you. Yeah, I could tell everyone in my town, and they just look at me weird like, why would we give a crap that this is in your home? Oh, come on, Josh. They look at us weird anytime you're talking to someone about pinball. They're like, wait, what? That's funny because I would wear my pinball shirts all over the place. Every time I was at a show, I was wearing the Jersey Jack colors and all that. And I would go through the airports and go through the scanners and all that. The guy's like, do they still make pinball machines? And any time I brought up the word pinball to somebody, you know, you get those chatty Cathy's alongside you in an airplane, you know, sitting in the seat beside you that want to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And so many people ask you, you know, where are you headed and what are you going for? You know, it's just kind of a boilerplate kind of question you ask somebody you're sitting beside. And they don't really care about the answer. Or as soon as I say, oh, I'm going up to Cleveland for a pinball show, they just turn like almost a double take. And they look with this big grin on their face. Oh, really? That is so cool. That is so cool. And whenever I tell people about pinball stuff, it's like, that is so cool that you get to do that. And I say, yes, I am very blessed to be able to do this. I even got out of a ticket one time. Nice. Now you got to tell us. Okay, so this story takes place back in, I don't know, early 2000s, something like that. I answered an ad on Mr. Pinball for two old Project Incomplete pinball machines. I think it was a Doctor Who and a No Fear. Offered the guy $400 for the two of them, and he accepted. So then it was just a matter of getting them to me from Jackson, Mississippi. So my sister and I decided to take a ride in her truck and make a road trip out of it and go pick up the machines and come back to New Mexico. So we head out. We're driving all day long that last day trying to get to Jackson, Mississippi, trying to get to our hotel. We had a Holiday Inn Express we were heading towards. And we were in Jackson. We were pulling up towards the exit, getting really close to the exit. And there's a car in front of me going like way under the speed limit. So I just slow way down. You know, I hate when people pull out past me just to cut me off and take an exit. So I wouldn't want to be that guy, you know. So I slow down and I pull in behind this guy and just kind of ride it out. My exit's like less than a half a mile away. I'm in good shape, right? Well, as soon as I do that, I notice on the right side of the road, it's dark. It's like 10 o'clock at night. And there's a police car sitting there. He has no lights on or anything. He's just on the shoulder, just sitting there watching people go by. Well, I guess he was waiting for somebody from New Mexico to come along. So he flipped his lights on and pulls me over, and I'm just like right at the foot of the exit to my hotel. My hotel is, I mean, it's right there. We are literally bathed in the light of the hotel sign right there alongside the interstate. So this guy, you know, throws the floodlights on and brings his big bright flashlight out and everything, looking in the bed of the truck, looking around. And he comes walking up. He doesn't really come all the way up to the window. He stops a little short. I look up. I just see a shoulder with a big old radio attached to it. And I hear, I need your license and registration, proof of insurance. So my sister's wrestling around getting the information for him out of the glove box. I'm getting my wallet out. And he asks, where are you all headed tonight? And I pointed at the Holiday Inn Express light and I said, right there. And he asked, you know why I pulled you over? And I said, actually, no, I don't. He says, well, you were following that car way too close there. And I said, well, I was getting ready to take this exit up here and I didn't want to pull in front of the guy and cut him off. and I thought it was safer to do that. And he just kind of, huh. So he looks at my license registration for a second, and then he says, well, so what brings you to Jackson, Mississippi there, Mr. Peel? And I said, well, I'm picking up some pinball machines tomorrow morning. And all of a sudden, the window is filled with this big smiling face, and he says, oh, really? He says, do you have any idea where I might be able to get a back glass for a Tropic Isle machine? and I just got a chuckling and I thought eBay is best I could figure. So we talked a little bit about the space shuttle game that I was restoring and I offered to show him some pictures and he said no, I didn't really have time for that. And next thing I know he's handing me my information back and telling me to enjoy my time in Jackson, Mississippi and enjoy the pinball machines and have a great evening there, Mr. Peel. So never underestimate the power of pinball. can get you out of some tight spots and do some amazing things for you that is awesome here i now i don't have to get my wife to flirt with the cop i just bring a pinball and i'll be out of the ticket it is so cool i'm telling you it's so cool that is way cool that's hilarious i'm not gonna lie every time i talk about pinball it's the same thing they always like huh okay uh can i come over and play him like it's always the same thing they still make him that's their first question second question can i come over and play him yeah sure yep what the part of of utah i'm from for some odd reason i always ask when i say i'm in a pinball you're a pinball wizard yeah that's what they say are you a wizard and i'm like i don't even know how to answer that really because i'm not a great player if that's what you mean by a wizard i'm no deaf dumb and blind kid you know exactly that's why i want to respond with well i can see you and hear you so uh So I don't know. Actually, you know, it's funny, though, with pinballs. I enjoy working on them. I enjoy talking about them. I enjoy playing them all about the same. It's it's all it's all good with pinball. You know, anything pinball gets my heart racing. I really enjoy it. Got a passion. I used to tell Jack that all the time. I got a passion that I'd put against anybody's for pinball. It's just an amazing feeling. My favorite is when you see someone after a while and they haven't seen you. They're like, hey, how's that ping pong going? Yeah, I had that happen to me when I was getting games delivered from Jersey Jack. A game would show up and this guy would say, I got another ping pong table for you. And I'm like, no, you don't. I love it when they say ping pong and then they know it's not right and they stare at the ground for a second and they look back at you and then they make the hand motions like they're pushing flippers. Yeah, yeah. You know. Or flippers moving with their fingers popping up like that. Oh, you know, the things. You know, the ping pong. The ping pong. Where you're knocking the ball around. Yeah, it's funny. Well, happy birthday, by the way. Like you said, July 26th. We just found out my birthday is the 25th. Butch's is the 26th. Scott, what were you thinking? You should have been born in July. Yeah, you could have been cool like us. I was born in September. So every seventh year I get Labor Day off for my birthday. Oh, nice. I thought you were going to say every leap year And I was like wait a minute It's every leap year absolutely Oh my goodness Well we've kind of hit the Hour and ten minute mark This is when we kind of start wrapping things up So is there anything you want to tell us Butch that you haven't yet That may be with the future Holding for you I don't know I'm just real excited like I said to be part of something new here to you know it's it's good to get out of your comfort zone every so often and do something new I had a guy I used to work with at the for the army that that was saying he he liked to change jobs every few years I'm like I really hate that thought I wouldn't want to do that but you know it's it's kind of it's kind of a cool fresh new start for me. It's really humbling to me. And, and, and, you know, I take it as a, as a great compliment that, that Doug Duba hired me. I mean, it was the first guy he ever hired that he'd never met before. So that was one of the reasons why I had to come up there in June, just so we could meet and all, because he'd already hired me and he'd never done that before. It was kind of cool. So, you know, I think there's a, there's a place for me in this industry still. I think I have a lot to offer. And I'm looking forward to moving forward with a company that appreciates that and values that. So I'm happy. We are too. We're certainly looking forward to your upcoming releases. And we'd love to have you circle back around when it's time to talk about your next release or your next project. Hey, you bet. And, you know, one last thing. I kind of lost my dream job, but I didn't lose my friends and I didn't lose, you know, my dreams or my passion. So, you know, this, this has been a, it's been a difficult couple of months, but things are definitely looking up and way up right now. And, uh, I'm really excited to be able to see all my friends again, when we get out of the other side of this COVID stuff and start having some pinball shows again, uh, would be, it'll be just like it was before we'll, we'll talk pinball and we'll have a blast. So I'm looking forward to seeing everybody out there. And thanks again, everybody for the well wishes and, and checking on me. I'm, I'm all right. I'm going to be okay. well if you want to contact butch like he said he he's very rarely working on order tickets because these games are built so well that he just you know what is he supposed to do so just send him an email saying hey i know it's not broken uh but how you doing you know that's right butch at chicago-gaming.com send me an email yeah of course if you have questions about your pinball machines uh just go ahead and say call ryan white hey i've got a 1978 solid state how can you help me with this let me count the ways my man yeah thanks you guys for having me on it's been great talking to you i love having friends like you guys in the business and uh you guys are doing a great job i i really appreciate the the support and i i really enjoy listening to your podcast and so We have some fun. Thank you. We're really enjoying doing it. We haven't had to do this in a while, but we are sending you a swag box for being on. So we actually, you know what? During COVID, I actually just ordered some more swag. So we have hats. We still have beanies. We also got some fun stickers. And I even got some rainbow stickers that are like holographic ones. So those are kind of fun too. So if anybody's interested, go ahead and hit me up. but we will certainly send you a swag bag for being on Bush. And we really appreciate it. If it's free, it's for me, dude. So thanks. I appreciate it. Well, I need some of those stickers too. I need, I just got, um, for my birthday, uh, Harbor freight had, you know, those portable tool carts. And so I've turned mine into a portable pinball repair station. And so, uh, Hey, watch that tools of the trade video. I may tell you how to populate that thing. Oh, absolutely. I'm going to do an amendment to that one too, at CGC. So, you know, have a lot more stuff to look at. Well, certainly send us links and we'll definitely distribute those to the, the powers that be too. You bet guys. Thanks a lot. You're welcome. Thanks budge. Well, uh, thanks for tuning into the loser kid pinball podcast. We'd like to thank our special guest, butch peel, uh, again, uh, friends of the show, please, uh, hit them up, uh, lit frames, a great way to illuminate those extra trans lights that you have around, uh, fly land designs. If you want some alternative art for your, uh, pinball machines, and they are officially licensed, so he did go through the right channels. Also, this week in pinball, please check out all the new releases in pinball, and Jeff Patterson does a great job of keeping everything up. And as always, if you need a new pinball machine or a used one, please hit up Zach and Nicole at Flip N Out Pinball. They're great friends of the show. Josh, if people want to listen to us, what's the best way to listen to us and to reach out? So we're based out of SoundCloud, so you can go to soundcloud.com slash Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. If you'd like to reach out and talk to us, Facebook is the best way through Loser Kid Pinball dot com. Or sorry, not Loser Kid Pinball dot com, but Facebook dot com slash Loser Kid Pinball. We're also on Twitter now and we have Instagram. So hit us up in any of those ways. We'll contact you. And also, if you want to give us an email, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. We love talking to you guys. It's fun to hear from you every once in a while. I think, Scott, it's getting pretty close to time. We won't do it this episode, but let's put a swag bag together and give it away on one of our future episodes. Absolutely. We'll just have to find out a way of teasing people to get them to get the threshold in for what they want to do. I agree. Awesome. Well, that's it for us. See you next time, guys. Bye.