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Episode 13 - Ashley Ludwig (Pinball Restorer) / RIP Matt Keil

Nudgecast·podcast_episode·1h 18m·analyzed·Jul 31, 2025
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TL;DR

Nudgecast tributes Matt Kyle and interviews pinball restorer Ashley Ludwig on her specialized craft.

Summary

In this Nudgecast episode, host Ian Jacoby and guest Ashley Ludwig discuss pinball restoration artistry. The episode opens with a tribute to late Nudge contributor Matt Kyle, featuring readings of his witty music reviews (including critiques of Total Nuclear Annihilation and Monster Bash). Ludwig describes her unconventional path from sign painter to specialized pinball restoration artist—finding the job on Craigslist in 2013 with no prior pinball knowledge—and details her meticulous process of cabinet art restoration, color matching, and surface preparation across machines from early EMs to modern games.

Key Claims

  • Ashley Ludwig found her pinball restoration job on Craigslist in 2013 as a sign painter with no prior knowledge of pinball machines

    high confidence · Ashley Ludwig directly describes the Craigslist discovery and her background as a sign painter

  • Ludwig has been working in pinball restoration for nearly 10 years (as of the recording) and has worked on hundreds of machines

    high confidence · Ashley Ludwig states 'going on 10 years at the end of this year' and references extensive experience across EM to modern games

  • Early production runs of pinball cabinets show crisper stencil art than later production runs due to cumulative paint buildup creating air gaps

    high confidence · Ashley Ludwig describes observing this detail effect across multiple machines: 'early production ones are like so crisp... later production ones you could see... the air gap'

  • Matt Kyle, a Nudge Magazine music reviewer and Comeback Kid musician, has recently passed away

    high confidence · Ian Jacoby and Shane Told open the episode in tribute to 'the now late Matt Kyle' and discuss his family and GoFundMe setup

  • You are 100 times more likely to be in the NBA than to be an American Pinball restoration artist

    medium confidence · Ian Jacoby cites this statistic from a Nudge article about Ashley Ludwig's profession

  • Surface preparation is the most critical part of pinball restoration; poor prep cannot be overcome by quality paint alone

    high confidence · Ashley Ludwig emphasizes: 'It doesn't matter how good of a painter you are, if you're painting on a rough, bumpy surface, there's never enough paint to cover that up'

Notable Quotes

  • “It doesn't matter how good of a painter you are, if you're painting on a rough, bumpy surface, there's never enough paint to cover that up. So I think it boils down a lot to paying attention to prepping your surface and filling areas that are gouged out and sanding corners and getting everything level.”

    Ashley Ludwig — Core philosophy of restoration craft; emphasizes preparation over execution

  • “I can match colors like 99 and a half percent of the time. There's like a half percentage that has a weird kind of like pigment thing going on that makes it difficult.”

    Ashley Ludwig — Demonstrates precision and the remaining 0.5% problem-solving challenge Ludwig pursues

  • “The sleek beeps and boops of pinball savant slash DJ Scott Danesi's Total Nuclear Annihilation dropkicks the listener into an ideological battle between a future where mankind's technological advances have surpassed his ability to control them and a past where he is still dicking around on guitar.”

    Matt Kyle (read by Ian Jacoby) — Example of Matt Kyle's distinctive, playful music review style for Nudge Magazine; tribute to late contributor

  • “When some washed up stiff like Elvis wants to criticize all the cool shit you're into, like Bobby Pickett, put together a fucked up rockabilly band full of goblins and hold a grudge forever.”

    Matt Kyle (read by Ian Jacoby) — Demonstrates Matt Kyle's irreverent humor and unconventional review approach; celebrated by hosts as 'amazing content'

  • “Currently, um, in my closet, you know, it's 95 degrees, lots of motorcycles zipping outside, so I had to shut all the windows, but we had kind of a quiet place, so I had to pull all my clothes out of the, out of my closet, and I made a little, a little nest in here.”

    Ashley Ludwig — Humorous setup describing Ludwig recording from a hot closet due to recording constraints; illustrates her dedication to the podcast

  • “It's almost like the human element matters in art, you know, amazing. 100%, I mean that essentially is what art is. It's, you know, nothing is new these days. It's just, it needs to be interpreted through your eyes and your hands.”

    Shane Told and Ashley Ludwig (exchange) — Philosophical discussion of art and restoration as interpretive, individual craft

Entities

Ashley LudwigpersonIan JacobypersonShane ToldpersonMatt KylepersonScott DanesipersonNudge MagazineorganizationTotal Nuclear Annihilationgame

Signals

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Ashley Ludwig describes detailed process of pinball cabinet restoration including cleaning, surface prep, sanding, filling gouges, color matching, and hand-painted stencil art application. Emphasizes surface preparation as critical foundation for quality results.

    high · Ludwig details entire workflow from 'crud cutter and magic erasers' through 'prepping my surface' to color matching and feathering techniques across hundreds of machines over 10 years

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Discussion of playfield restoration work on EM-era machines and assessment of when full playfield replacement versus targeted repair is cost-effective. Ludwig works on machines from early EM wood rails through modern games.

    high · Ludwig discusses playfield analysis decisions, mentions Royal Flush and Dipsy Doodle EM machines, notes complexity of playfield art and when restoration is worthwhile

  • ?

    historical_signal: Ludwig observes manufacturing evolution in stencil application techniques across production runs—early production cabinets show crisper stencil art than later runs due to cumulative paint buildup creating air gaps in spray application.

    high · Ludwig explicitly describes comparing 'early production ones are like so crisp... later production... you could see... the air gap is like so, so minimal but I love the character'

  • ?

    community_signal: Nudge Magazine and pinball community mourning the recent death of Matt Kyle, a longtime music reviewer and musician in Comeback Kid. Episode opens with tribute to his work and family needs.

    high · Ian Jacoby and Shane Told open episode with extended tribute to 'the now late Matt Kyle,' read his reviews, discuss his three children, and mention GoFundMe support

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.231

0:00
Need a pinball machine? Another pinball machine? Maybe some fat accessories like a topper or a shooter rod? Yes, you do. Hit up Jeff over at Mad Pinball for the best products and service and use our promo code Nudgecast and get a free exclusive t-shirt when you buy any game. And you also get free shipping on any new in box Stern. So many great games are out right now. Go pick one up. Hit up Jeff at madpinball.com and don't forget to subscribe to Mad Pinball. Don't forget to tell them we sent you.
1:00
Hey everybody, you're listening to Nudgecast, the official podcast of Nudge Magazine. That intro music you're listening to right now is the song 1968 by the band Regret, featuring Nudge's very own Brian Moen, B. Moen, and Matt Kyle, who wrote all our music reviews. So as always, I'm Ian Jacoby, aka DocMonday, the editor-in-chief and publisher of Nudge Magazine. With me is my co-host, Shane Told of the band Silverstone. I'm here with Shane and the Lead Singer Syndrome Podcast. Hey Shane, how's it going? Hey buddy. Well, you know, hanging in there man. Word. Been a rough couple months with a lot of our friends not with us anymore and that was really nice that music at the beginning is a tribute to the now late Matt. Yeah, Matt Kyle. I know you grew up with him. He's a big contributor to Nudge and I know him from his time in Comeback Kid. David Van Es, Knapp Arcade.
2:30
David Van Es, Knapp Arcade. greetings. I was also in an eighth grade talent show myself. It's a rite of passage or something. Yeah, for sure. So I was in a ska band actually with, and this is weird, so another guy from this pretty successful punk band, Arms Aloft, was also in it, Seth. And then my friend Dustin, who's a great writer, who's also been in Nudge, was the guitar player. And we played a Mighty Mighty Boston song. Not even the hit. We played like Royal Oil, like a very deep cut, which is weirdly about him. I'm a fan of the song, but I don't know how that one got picked. I think it was the slowest song on the album, so it was the one that we could do the best as 8th graders, but it wasn't really getting the response we wanted. Not true what you expected, but okay. I know, I know. Like being disappointed in the audience playing a deep cut boss tone song. Stan Kramish, Andrew Koost, Adam Kramish
Monster Bash
game
White Watergame
Road Kingsgame
Royal Flushgame
Dipsy Doodlegame
X-Men Progame
Foo Fightersgame
Mad Pinballorganization
Jack Dangerperson
Buffalo Pinballorganization
Comeback Kidorganization
Silverstoneorganization
Williamscompany
Spooky Pinballcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
?

content_signal: Matt Kyle's distinctive music review style in Nudge Magazine blended punk rock irreverence, detailed musical critique, and absurdist humor. Reviews generated reader backlash but are celebrated by hosts as high-quality artistic criticism.

high · Multiple Kyle reviews read aloud showcase ornate prose, cultural references (Elvis, Bobby Pickett), vulgar humor ('deranged European sex pests'), and unconventional critique framing

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Matt Kyle, contributor to Nudge Magazine and member of punk band Comeback Kid, has recently passed away. He was a regular music reviewer for the magazine and known in both music and pinball communities.

    high · Ian Jacoby confirms 'the now late Matt Kyle' and discusses Kyle's background in Comeback Kid, his role 'since day one' at Nudge, and his family situation

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Ashley Ludwig's restoration philosophy emphasizes constant decision-making, problem-solving, and communication with the machine. She weighs cost-effectiveness against preservation quality and describes the craft as highly interpretive and labor-intensive.

    high · Ludwig: 'you are constantly weighing your options and you're just like having that communication with the machine like will I save time if I just make this whole shape and spray it or can I just feather in an area'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Ashley Ludwig works for a company with long history in amusement arcade industry that maintains showroom floor and storage of collected machines. Her work is split 50/50 between client restorations and company's own machine restoration.

    high · Ludwig describes working 'for a company that has been in the amusement arcade industry a long time' with 'machines that they have collected over the years' and 'like a showroom floor'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Discussion of WPC code update to modern Stern games (specifically X-Men referenced). Nick from Buffalo Pinball reportedly upset about new code changes, hosts propose difficulty setting option that allows players to toggle between old/new code versions.

    medium · Hosts mention 'Nick from Buffalo Pinball is just like so upset about the new WPC code' and discuss feature request for difficulty mode toggling between old and new rule sets

  • ?

    product_launch: X-Men Pro early production runs had plunging issues that were reportedly fixed in subsequent production runs. Hosts recommend waiting on early run purchases or buying newer production batches.

    medium · Hosts discuss 'all these people are complaining about plunging stuff. Well, that's been fixed in the new run of games' for X-Men Pro

    • 4:34
    Percy David Van Es, Knapp Arcade. We're doing it and almost immediately the lady who was in charge of the talent show, Miss Tracy, was like, no! It was like a movie, you know? She's like, what is happening? And we're like playing, like going nuts. I just had my trombone and it was like doing whatever, like jumping around the stage, like having fun. Not even trombone in the track, just soloing over Green Day's Hitch and Ride. 100% and mostly just like mosh pitting with like the other guys up there. They unplug Dustin's guitar and like he just like galloped around like riding it like a horse. And we got chased off the stage and Mr. He's like, what the hell are you doing? You know, we all got detention. And one of the kids, Aaron, actually, who was in the band, he like refused to go along with it. And he came back on Monday and was like, you know, my parents are really proud of me. Choose a life with a family member you know we're looking at both gladly take Reaper anchored at belike talent show legends and we were they actually i'd talk to like my younger siblings that you know the all that is there also a changes over zero is a difficult idea which is you are performance that shares so ε long a耀 Sharp Enough,
    6:51
    נAUDIOuckles Yeah, so Matt wrote for Nudge, if you guys don't know, we are up to issue four, we're about to release issue five. Matt did music reviews like since day one for us. And the cool part about a Nudge music review, this was kind of the idea behind it. I think a lot of people actually didn't get it, because I never expressly said it. So not their fault, right? But our music reviews is like, I wanted to have a guy, so Matt played in Comeback Kid, you know, he's a great musician. I wanted a guy who was a great musician. We're going to be talking about the most divisive thing, like the most hate mail I took was always from the music reviews. Like there were a couple specifically and maybe I'll read one of them, but I thought it would be fun, Shane. I know you've read a lot of these, but I thought maybe we could read a couple and then I'll just have you respond to what you think. That sounds good. Ian is opening the magazine right now. I'm watching him do it. Yep, so this is from issue one. There were three reviews in here. I'm just going to pick one though. So there was Black Knight, Total Nuclear Annihilation, and Dungeons and Dragons. So we're going to go Total Nuclear Annihilation. Because this is actually, this one was scary for me to send him because Scott Denise is a friend of mine. Okay, yes. And I didn't tell him that. Total nuclear annihilation. Let's face it, techno is no longer strictly the domain of deranged European sex pests. The proliferation of electronic music in mainstream culture is evident in every arena of entertainment the world over, and pinball is no exception. The slick beeps and boops of pinball savant slash DJ Scott Denise's total nuclear annihilation Dropkicks the listener into an ideological battle between a future where mankind's technological advances have surpassed his ability to control them and a past where he is still dicking around on guitar. The driving mechanical rhythms of Beepgate Reprise will have you lewdly thrusting your hips into the table while the smooth soundscape of 1980-something pummels your little walnut brain into submission. Will the players succeed in the game's mission to end all of modernity and humankind through nuclear disaster? Do assholes dream of electric sheep? This writer thinks so. So there you go. That was his... Yeah, totally. It sounds like he liked it, I think. I think he liked it. I think he loved it. Yeah, that was actually as positive as a Matt Kyle review gets. Yeah, well, I mean, hey, that game is known for having... I'd say like it's you could say it's maybe the greatest pinball soundtrack. I mean you could argue it You know I mean it for a modern game it might be I mean top five Yeah for sure and I totally think it like has Resorted defined how people think about music in pinball machines so yeah definitely he and it does It's true. It is no longer the domain of deranged European sex pests. So do I have a walnut brain because I like it I think I might. Dude, we all have walnut brains, I think. That's kind of part of it. So, all right. So we're going to switch gears. This one is Monster Bash. So this was a... I love this game. Yep. Well, here you go. Yes, I'm ready. Elvis Presley once famously referred to Bobby Pickett's 1962 masterpiece Monster Mash as, quote, the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Pickett, a huge Elvis fan, was initially dejected, but years later, while retelling this anecdote on stage, Pickett triumphantly remarked, Well, Elvis, you're dead and I'm not. It is in this defiant spirit I encourage the reader to spin the raucous original soundtrack to Williams' 1998 classic Monster Bash. agentентов attitude dotnet dotnet dotnet dotnet dotnet dotnet relatonal Cross mainnet overall account The infamous multiball theme features a haunting vocal melody you'll be humming all through your night shift at the dump. This official soundtrack is a creative accomplishment with upbeat rock music interspersed with familiar monster movie callbacks. The soundtrack, like the table itself, empowers us all to unleash our inner wolfman or whatever. When some washed up stiff like Elvis wants to criticize all the cool shit you're into, We like Bobby Pickett. Put together a fucked up rockabilly band full of goblins and hold a grudge forever. There you go. What a line. You're saying, wait, people were complaining about this gold? In this mag- I mean, come on, this is like, this is amazing content. I loved every word of that. The one I have to find, actually, and I should, dude, we might have to edit this quick. Issue 4, there's a White Water one and like it got me in trouble with a lot of people. So hold on. Let me get what can you just like for like 30 seconds? I'll grab it for 30 seconds. Yes. Oh, yeah.
    13:03
    Here it is, the White Water review. I'd like to open this review with a compliment. I really like the cover art. It reminds me of the Big Dog brand or maybe more so the lesser known Big Johnson. These were novelty t-shirts with cartoonish sex jokes on them. They could be purchased at the mall in the early 90s to let everyone know you were the bad cousin. I wanted to open with a compliment here because the soundtrack itself is lacking. I can appreciate the fast riffage which at its best runs over surprising chord changes with an almost Bill Stevenson like anxiety. However, the overall writing and tone do not live up to the greatness of the game itself. It feels like 1993 incarnate. It would have been better served as the soundtrack to a straight to VHS film where the great John Candy clownishly attempts to revive a failing whitewater rafting guide service. Maybe the problem is I don't like whitewater rafting. As a general rule, I'm not interested in hobbies where you could dash your brains out against a rock. Anyways, bring some headphones should you choose this table. If the soundtrack could be represented on a Big Johnson t-shirt, it would feature the eponymous pervert playing a synthesizer made of dicks. I don't really feel the need to elaborate on this thought. I paint with my words. The composer of these jams painted with shit. Next. I will say though, he has a tremendous way with words and comedy and everything else. I mean, it's, he will be greatly missed. This is, this is brutal. And it really does, like, you know, I didn't know him very well because I only really knew him from his days in Comeback Kid and, you know, here and there. But, you know, just hearing all the stories about him, man, just what a legend. Yeah, dude, great guy and we're obviously really going to miss him and thinking about him and his family. There are ways to help them out too if you feel so moved, if you've enjoyed like any of, you know, that stuff in Nudge and hopefully you did, you know, except for Alan from Wedgehead and that Whitewater review. But, yeah, anyone else, you know, I know they have some GoFundMe set up for his, he's got, you know, like three kids and stuff. So anyway, it's, it's sad. And as we, we talked about before this, it would be great to have a couple months where neither of our friends died. You know, we would love that. So we'll, we'll, you know, not knock on wood. That would be great. So anyway, pinball, pinball. Well, we've already been talking about pinball. No, we have, but I just mean, We actually do have a great show today and I feel so bad for our guest because I just you know what a way to like come in on yeah well I believe she did record this barricaded in her closet so yeah you know this is an amazing episode featuring all of humanity you have like the feralness of that interview like in a superheated Rochester closet and then life and death you know and then you know you have to Well, it is a really interesting thing that she does, super niche. We get into the finer points of it. And I don't know how many people listening to this have actually restored a pinball machine, but if you have or you want to, this one's definitely for you. Absolutely. Yeah. Our next guest is Ashley Ludwig. She is an amazing pinball artist and restoration I'm a pinball artist and works on all different kinds of games. It was super fun getting to talk to her because she's just like a great mix of left brain and right brain and really geek out with her about artwork and kind of the different eras and that kind of stuff. So I think you guys are really going to dig it. And of course, shout out to our sponsor Mad Pinball. You probably need another pinball machine. Maybe you don't have one yet and you need your first game. If that is the case, we highly recommend Jeff at Mad Pinball to help you out.
    17:23
    Welcome back to STM TV, which is neither a streaming block nor a social media broadcast while you David Van Es, Knapp Arcade.
    18:23
    A Mike Myhremaard, Half interior Pet button in Spphalt, Kaa' Broke the Polka, Alex Satow, Vince Gehano, Yup Albus and Sitemani uzman In our Lama Lovekz Lama Transcript Women of New numa tagline and other Be able to just like kinda make sure like it someone to make sure that you happy You know what I mean Like when you just are on your own with it Nope there is not that it just like oh you got it in the truck and dumped it into your living room and now your family is pissed at you So you know so you don you don want that So we would say go with go with mad pinball hit Jeff up Evidently quite a nice man He a man of mystery to me I say that he kind of like Batman in a way he only shows up when you I'm going to put the three of us on a group chat so we can get a watch. Oh, okay. There you go. Alright. I'll make the proper introduction to you. No, I love it. But yes, if you need a game, head over to Mad Pinball, madpinball.com, jeff at madpinball.com is the email address. Tell him that we sent you. And if you do buy a game, any game, we'll send you a free Nudgecast t-shirt. And you also get free shipping on a Stern game too. I love you. I was watching a movie. I'm into it now. That's a dumb question. I'm a big fan. Thank you. There's a movie called The Postman. And it's very bad. Which movie? And it was for- Oops, no. Yes, when the movie runs, the TV was on. Oh yes, yes. No, it's a better movie, actually. Will Yeah. Will I be able to watch the next question? It's for the second question actually. What you have on thehot stop? Single ultra? Single electrical projector. Thank you. I haven't watched what the black was just singing about I have never heard of his name from overwhelming tomorrow. I've seen the energy numbers on this movie. Once WEBVERTENfightRh��Land. Okay. I think the WIC code is actually really, really good now too. I got a chance to play some games on it and yeah, I think it's definitely making the game better. It's funny because I love listening to the Buffalo Pinball guys and they are such good players, you know, that they really, they were, you should listen to that if you haven't, but Nick from Buffalo Pinball is just like so upset about the new WIC code because he's like, Thank you for watching.
    21:33
    I agree, but I know we're getting way off track here. You know, we just know this is pinball games for Mad Pinball. But you know, the thing about a game like Wick, I don't know why. Why can't they just have it? Okay, hit the start button and it says, what do you want to do? Do you want easy? Do you want medium? Do you want hard? And then you can use old, you know, some of the old code like, you know, where you have to relight the Winston shot, you know, captive ball to to, you know, lock the balls. I'm a fan of the You know the game where you just have to hit it spell Winston once and then you can hit three Three balls in the center ramp to start the multi ball for example, right? Okay, you don't like that Well then make it harder for yourself and set it to hard mode. You know what I mean? Why can't you do that? I know in the settings you can do that But like maybe just make that an option for location players to if they want to hate themselves, you know It's not it's not a terrible idea. And yeah I'm not someone who needs a game. Well, A, I never needed a game. But if I was buying a game, I wouldn't buy it right away just because I don't want early run games, I think, usually. So, like, maybe right now it's like the runs at X-Men that they're doing, right? Like, all these people are complaining about plunging stuff. Well, that's been fixed in the new run of games. So yeah, anyway, I mean, X-Men Pro, I think you can't go wrong with that game. It's got a super cool, unique layout. I mean, it's not going to get boring. No ever. I don't think I think that game there's too much there. It's a lot of fun. And yeah, and you can you can pick one up for a great price. Yeah. And you know, if you GC your own game, that Jack Danger will repost you on Instagram and who doesn't want that? Get those dreamy eyes. Look, get those dreamy eyes looking at your post. You love that, so... All we want in pinball is to be acknowledged by Jack, that's right. That's what I'm saying, just have God smile on you for five seconds, amazing. And that can happen if you go to Jeff at Mad Pinball and pick up an X-Men or Foo Fighters. Or anything. Anything. Yeah, but I mean, I'm saying Jack Danger's only going to care about this. Okay, let's get to the guest. Here she is, Ashley Ludwig on the Nudgecast. I yelled at our next guest who is a pinball restoration artist. They frequently hand paint pinball cabinets and restore playfields on classic games from EMs to solid states. I think solid states. I actually don't know when I wrote this. She resides in Rochester, New York where she's a big part of their pinball scene. Please welcome Ashley Ludwig to the show. Hey Ashley. Hey guys, how are you? Hey, we're doing great. Before we started recording we heard you're in a world of pain right now. Is that right? You're hanging in your closet pantless? That's what you said. I mean it's not pain, it's just suffering. You know? Um, currently, uh, currently, um, in my closet, you know, it's 95 degrees, lots of motorcycles zipping outside, so I had to shut all the windows, but we had kind of a quiet place, so I had to pull all my clothes out of the, out of my closet, and I made a little, a little nest in here. Um, yeah, just sitting in the closet in my underwear with water bottle and talking to you guys. Dedication to the nudge cast right there. We appreciate that 100%. It's our first like sweat lodge experience. Like maybe someone will like hallucinate something amazing. But yeah, it makes me want to do it. I might close these windows. So yeah, I guess I mentioned that you do hand painting restoration and pinball art. Can you kind of just tell us what you do exactly? What would you say you do here? You know, I think you hit it right on the head. I'm a restoration artist working on pinball machines. Pinball machines and arcade games, pretty much all sorts of coin-op pieces. I've worked on very strange, like, you know, amusement games and riding dolphins and all sorts of interesting, you know, I'm a pinball enthusiast, and I'm a pinball enthusiast. I've been playing arcade stuff, but the majority of my time is spent on pinball machines, anything from modern day to early EMs, wood rails, so a lot of different games from all different eras. How did you get started in this? It's pretty niche. I think the Nudge article that Ian put together says that you're 100 times more likely to be in the NBA than a pinball restoration artist, which I love that quote so much. I feel like you're a fan of pinball first before you got into this but maybe not. How exactly did that work? Craig's List. You can find anything on Craig's List. Correct. You said you were a sign painter like you did hand-painted signs first right? Yeah and this is Craig's List of 2013. I was a sign painter and I would look on Craigslist for like restaurants that need A-frames or window paintings, just little kind of gigs that I could make, you know, some quick cash on. And my boss thought that he should hire a You know, people, you know, you could just put an ad on Craigslist and like hire professionals. Um, somehow, like I ended up, you know, finding this ad, which I thought was fake for a long time.
    28:03
    And, um, at the time, what did it say? Artists needed to restore pinball machines. And then it was just like gibberish, um, like kind of like, no offense, but it was like kind of kindergarten 不過それは олог equator 말고 overlookipex estantio conductive packaging Bhante amendment diffé chegarł Measure atesus ksèssonjă 고� Regional leson It's like, it's worth it. Like that, that is the plight of the artist. You're just like, you know what, either I die or I keep going, whatever, you know? So before you get into that story, did you know anything about pinball? Like, did you even know what a playfield was at this point? No idea. In fact, I don't know. I'm, I'm 33. So when I was growing up, pinball was really kind of like on its way out. I'm a fan of pinball. So, I don't even ever remember like seeing pinball in the community or going to places like, you know, I think there was like a bowling alley that might have had one, but it wasn't necessarily something that I was surrounded by. But once I started getting into it, I just like absolutely, absolutely fell in love with it. But at the time when you're applying to this potentially murder job, you're like, okay, yeah, it just says art and I can do that. And you're doing hand painted sign kind of stuff already. So, um, you just kind of felt like, yeah, I mean, that is such a specialized skillset already. It's amazing that they found someone on Craigslist. Yeah. And I mean, it wasn't something that I showed up and had the like, really, you know, I had a portfolio to show, but the person who ItEM conhe 했다 Flip tama Cyptok Maori I'm a fan of the Road Kings. They had a Road Kings there. Nice. And so I like sat in the shop corner. Like I made a little nook and I was like, okay, I will like work on this. Like I'll come in like one day a week while I'm working my other job and then I'll like get this going and see what I can do and like we'll kind of go Katarzynski, amat Armys, I'm going to go to playfield because I was trying to remember exactly what it looked like and it is intricate as fuck. There's a lot of shit going on in there. Who made that game? Who made Road Kings? It's a System 11 game, isn't it? Yeah, it's Williams. Oh, it is a Williams. Wow, okay. Okay, yeah, no, that's okay, legit. That's actually better than what I thought, but I guess I'm just thinking of the back glass art in it being like a total, like I think for the listener, if you aren't familiar with Road Kings, It's basically like a Mad Max sort of ripoff theme. It's like they couldn't afford the license, I think, to Mad Max. So yeah, it's like a post-apocalyptic. The tags for it on Pinside are apocalyptic and motorcycles.
    32:39
    That's pretty much what it is, though. No, 100%. But so that was but that I'm saying like that was your intro. So that was where you doing mostly playfield art then for that. At the time, like when I first started, it was just the cabinet. Oh, okay, cool. Yeah, so, you know, I did this cabinet, but I didn't take it apart fully and sand it and prep it because I wasn't sure what they were looking for and I wasn't really sure what to do, but I also wasn't sure, like, what materials to use or, like, what they wanted or if there was a standard or, you know, I just, I literally showed up, I had no idea about anything and just started just kind of applying myself and they're like, sure, do you want a job? And I'm like, I guess, like, am I good? Or like, is this like, what is going on? Well, and I think for the listeners, it might be helpful to know, like, so pinball wasn't always like decals on cabinets. Like, so what you're looking at a lot of times is like, even from games that aren't from in the grand So, I know you guys have been talking about this in the grand scheme of things that long ago that have sort of this really cool screen printed look, right? How would you describe that, I guess, Ashley? It's almost like silk screen or black print where it's maybe using like two or three colors. So, it's very based on design. Yes. As 1K, you drop 2 presumpting buttons Time is placed. The Futures were Yeah, it's like character. It looks like it looks like it's from the world, you know, like it gives you a deeper appreciation I think for art in pinball when you kind of like look at the thought and care that goes into those really simple designs You know, and I guess you being up close to it. Maybe you just might have a different sort of appreciation for it
    35:03
    Yeah, definitely. It's also cool because I'm going on 10 years at the end of this year. So I've been doing it. I've been doing it a while. So I've worked on hundreds and hundreds of machines, but it's been cool to see referring to cabinet stencil art because they were using just the big stencils and spraying them. I've had machines that are early production of a specific title and then a later production and you can actually see like a build up like there's a little bit more on the edge where the design is there's a little bit more of an air gap from the build up of paint over time so like it's letting a little bit more of that paint and air through when they spray it so early production ones are like a little I'm a little bit more crisp than like the later production ones. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, like I've had like two shipahois next to one another and one was like so crisp. And it was an early production machine and then I had one that was much later down the line and you could see and the air gap is like so, so minimal but I love the character $12 All New
    36:44
    www.un Literally vosin��n Halloween $13 Yeah, well it seems like you know looking at your Instagram and stuff and and People should absolutely follow you on Instagram to Ludwig synopsis on Instagram It's a great follow great pictures on there You do a lot of EMS and that makes sense because obviously EMS are older they have more damage they're also a lot more simple when you're talking about taking them apart and The cabinet art is almost always like you said just a few colors Hi, I'm David Van Es, and I'm a fan of yours. So, walk us through your process of like, because I've got two EMs in my garage right now that I'm going to restore myself. What is your, yeah, I have a Royal Flush, which you have done, I saw that you have one of those on Instagram, and I have a Dipsy Doodle, which is a Williams, I don't know if you've worked on one of those either. So I'm excited to try my hand at it and fuck up the whole thing. But what's your process? So you get a game in and, you know, I guess you have to kind of evaluate exactly what you're going to do. So, and then what goes into it? Like, maybe kind of explain to the people like we're five, what all you have to do. Because I think this is so niche, even people in the pinball world don't really know what goes into a restore. We just see like before and after. Wow. But we don't really know how you do that. Yeah, it's it's tough too, because it's taken me so many years to kind of develop my process. And first and foremost, I get people all This was the first time that asked me very specific questions or what paint do you use or like how do you do this and it like a very loaded question because you know I can give you what I use and you not going to use it the way I do or you not going to do the process the way I do so it never going to be the same It's almost like the human element matters in art, you know, amazing. 100%, I mean that essentially is what art is. It's, you know, nothing is new these days. It's just, it needs to be interpreted through your eyes and your hands. So that's the most important thing. But my process, I get a machine in and the first thing I'm doing is getting a bucket And some crud cutter and some magic erasers and I am like taking the legs off and like taking the head off and just scrubbing that thing down. I'm trying to like get it cleaned and when you take the legs off you can kind of see how faded the cabinet is and then I will go in and start prepping my surface which is the most important part. It doesn't matter how good of a painter you are, if you're painting on a rough, bumpy surface, there's never enough paint to cover that up. So I think it boils down a lot to paying attention to prepping your surface and filling areas that are gouged out and sanding corners and getting everything level. I always find that the most impressive part is when you have a gouged out part like because it's beside an insert or whatever you know and it's like there's fine detailed you know text there that's just gone that is always so impressive that you can somehow fill that space and then find the right colors to match it or or do you have to do the whole thing to match the colors how does that work exactly because that's that like blows my mind when I see that. I can match colors like 99 and a half percent of the time. There's like a half percentage that has a weird kind of like pigment thing going on that makes it difficult, but usually I can always get it right. But yeah, I'm usually also, you gotta, you gotta really have this relationship with whatever you're doing, where you I'm going to ask you a question. You are constantly weighing your options and you're just like having that communication with the machine like will I save time if I just make this whole shape and spray it or can I just feather in an area and move on? You know, it's like figuring out like what's more cost effective, what, um, what to do nailed direction JW, Schlanger,
    42:27
    We're, our job, like are, like are you, sometimes, sometimes, like do you, do you want to go that road? Do you just want, if the playfield is available, you want to go that road? Right. Is it worth it to you? Yeah, it's so, it's so highly specialized really. I'm just gonna, like, it would have to be a game where it's like, I can't just buy another one, like, exactly like what you're saying, and it's... Yeah. But what I'm really interested in sort of your response to this stuff is it is so uniquely left and right brain, right? Like, you just have this crazy attention to detail, you're talking about, like, cleaning, like, scrubbing this game, like, up and down, like, you're spending so much time, you know, with each project that it's just really interesting. I've always loved that about like visual artists in general like painters and stuff is that you kind of get to do these repeatable tasks you know that you can kind of I don't know if you listen to music or are you like how are you occupying yourself during those like times or what do you yeah what are you doing you know? I listen to music sometimes I don't sometimes I just I'm not one of those people that talks to myself You know, I'm constantly talking. Sure you are. You brought it up. I mean, sometimes, sometimes I'm usually when I'm working on machines, I'm like talking aloud. But it's kind of the theater of it, I guess, even though nobody's around. But I guess that's a different conversation. But the, you know, I'm usually listening to music. Host & œQîN mñŻ Pardoná矢qæ demand, pander.
    44:23
    quer descăzet rečităɪætferi triedututai Læs aira sa vос � Kerryta o I say this wistfully, like you can disassociate almost while you're doing it, you know? Yeah, I mean, at this point in the game, yes. Um, you know, because I'm kind of, I've been trying to tune myself into being a machine, you know? But it is very, especially in my early, like when I was in the three to five years really trying to like hone it in, figure it out, get it down. It was insanely taxing and it is still, you know, it does take, you know, every, every decision, there's just so many decisions that I have to make and I am just constantly like problem solving. Missonda Westcott watches website by Mitchell Ross.com I'm not the .5, not the 99.5 that you got right. You're like, the .5 that I'm trying to get. So yeah, I mean, yeah, there's that element of that as well, I'm sure. Yeah. So do you just have people send you playfields or games or do you also like find games on let's say maybe Craigslist and like restore them yourself, resell them? Is that part of your business if you will as well? So I work for a company that has been in the amusement industry a long time. So they have a lot of machines that they have collected over the years that are folded up and in storage. And we have like a showroom floor. So I am my work is split 5050 in terms of clients bringing Do you have any favorites? Favorite games you've worked on, whether you've worked on them. That have been you like? Oh man, it's great. Uh, yeah, if I ever have to touch another F-14 or, like, um, you know, it's just, or an Addams Family, you know, I think I've done, like, ten Addams Families tops to bottom. Like, I could probably, it would be really fun to, like, um, next time I have to work on one to just, like, you know, take the playfield apart with, like, a blindfold on because I'm sure I could do it. I'm a sucker for EMs, Love, Love Gottlieb, Wedgeheads. I just, you know, at this point I've worked on so many different games that I love when I get a very uncommon game and I get to touch it, you know, for the first time like, oh wow, I've never worked on one of these, like, let's, you know. Has there ever been any games you've gotten that you literally could, like, had trouble finding photos of them? Like, you know, where, like, super, super rare? Um, yeah, shoot, I've worked on a lot of like really odd, rare machines over the times or like some that maybe in my early years, oh, we just had this one and then I didn't realize like, how rare it was or uncommon it was. Or I've never actually seen another one, you know, so... You said like Gottliebs and you know like the Wedgehead era for Gottliebs which is fun like the some of them are it's kind of like almost ironically I wouldn't say ironically because I genuinely love them as well but there is an element of humor whether intentional or unintentional but do you have any like other because I just feel like people are scared of games that are like pre-1980 right and you have a very like unique perspective on this because I'm going to ask you a question. You said you're a young person, right? You said you didn't have pinball growing up, which I also think is like a lot of people like this, but where you're a freak, where you're weird is like you actually like games from the 60s and 70s and you know, or maybe even earlier. So like, I guess what would you kind of tell those people? Like what's compelling about any of that, you know, or like why play an old game when you could play a new game? You know what, I think that is an interesting thing to bring up because when I think of my community here in Rochester, I am so fortunate that I am surrounded by people that are into older games. Like, um, the Pinball Collective has, um, I think they're like, they have like 80 games at this point. Um, but they have all, all eras of machines and it's so hard to find a location, um, where you can have EMs, um, because they're just finicky and you gotta have people there that can work on them. Elうん informações tôi Sa А depositappran no I think that would go a long way. Both in, like because what you're talking about ultimately, Ashley, right? Is like growing a, growing the hobby, right? Yes. Like that is what that will lead to. Is like when you put those games out there. When people are exposed to that stuff, they gain appreciation for it. Yeah, and there's a million EM machines out there. A million different titles. It doesn't matter if you're into race cars or sailing or you know girls at the beach or you know boxing like there's so many. Oh yeah, you name it. You name it. There's an EM for you. That's true. Oh yeah, oh yeah. I mean Shane, you said you have a game. What is it called Dipsy Doodle? What is the theme? Dipsy Doodle. I don't really know what the- it's got like a dancing lady on it with a very small waist and very big boobs. This is a game from 1970, so this was probably pretty cutting edge stuff at the time. And if you hit, it's called the doodle bug, and it actually looks, I'm not kidding, it looks like a fucking ball sack right in the middle of the playfield too. Like it just does. Ian, have you never played a Dipsy Doodle? I don't think so, I don't think I've ever played Dipsy Doodle. No, no, I'm outing myself right now. It's not that common. It's not that common. So you hit the center shot and then the ball starts going up and down. And it's cool because you get points every time the ball goes back and forth. But what makes this game really unique is that it doesn't have, you can't, the flippers, the main flippers are floating. So you can't actually trap the ball. PIPPING Talking PIE unless you keep it Cette Dаныne Decgie the in stopped talking about this because I care the U.S. uh... Murray neuro Doesn't that sound like something you'd call your significant other? Oh, my little doodle bug. It's cute. I have to add one more thing is while you're trying to, you know, get the doodle bug going back and forth, you're throttled by the sound. It sounds like it's being electrocuted.
    54:10
    As the doodle bug is going, like it sounds scary. So I'm glad that's not just my game. I thought my game was just fucked up. Oh no, they all do this. Okay, good. Oh my lord. So, do you have games at home, Ashley? Or like where are...you're one of those people who like packs them into your house, right? Is that...are you one of those? So, I live in a studio apartment. I have one machine and here I am, it's, you know, middle of July in my closet. I'm peeking through the cracked door and I'm looking at my Iron Maiden sitting next to my bed. Oh yeah. Nice. That's so rock and roll, dude. That's awesome. Yeah, so I- And you mean Iron Maiden, the new Stern Iron Maiden, not the old- Yep. I'm a fan of Iron Maiden. I don't know if it's a solid state. There is. It's a solid state. I've never played it. I just know about it. No, but it's... I think it's so ironic too that I'm obsessed with EMs. I love them. Blah blah blah. All I do is talk about them. And then here I am, peering through the crack of my closet, looking at my Iron Maiden. Like, you know... But I gotta tell you, I love that machine. And... I have an Iron Maiden too and I think if I had to keep one game it might be Iron Maiden. It might be my favorite game. It's just, it's a great game. It's fun, it never gets old. You gotta support your boy Keith, right? You and Keith are homies, right Ashley? Oh yeah. Yeah, so I mean that's kind of the one that started it all. That's true. Yeah, great. How, how have you worked on games for him or what? Yeah, I guess I don't even know. How do you know Keith Elwin? Well, everyone in pinball knows everyone, which is something I realized very early on. Like Scott Denisi was good about introing me to everyone, but I'm actually, I'm curious about this. Like, how do you guys know each other? You know, it's, it's funny because before he started working for Stern, he was working I was working on games in California and he had someone that was like an artist restoring games, right? So we kind of come from like the same sort of, you know, background of like working out there in the field on games. So he sees what I do and really respects that. And obviously we all respect what The So for sure yeah, yeah, no, he's he's the best and it would be sick I mean Stern we know some of y'all are listening if you ever want to get Ashley in there to maybe do some cab art some traditional Cab art on like a Keith Elwin game I think that would be like think about this like let me just pitch you Ashley on this idea is like Why don't we make an le and we make it actually we we take off the decals and we go back? I think we're back to some kind of screen printed side cab. Yeah. And we have you design it, right? Wouldn't that be? I'll pitch you on that idea. What do you say? I have literally had this conversation and it like it would be a dream I would love that And honestly I think like I can just tell you this from so we do the nudge 100 right which is the first 100 people who subscribe to nudge you get a bunch of different stuff like a membership card all these things but you also get a screen printed picture of an I'm a fan of the screen printed print. And I'll tell you, like, so many people, like, that's why they get that. They love the screen printed print. And I think that's like something when we're always talking about, like, how do we make these games more of a collectible versus less of a collectible? It's like, that's it right there. You know what I mean? You can't, so it just seems like such a like, why can't we look backwards to see what, you know, a possibility there that has for some reason been lost. So. And it's, you know, I grew up in the 90s and we were just shoved down our throats like TV, plastic, consumption, blah, blah, blah. Like we were just force fed like so much stuff and we, I think, really got sick of it. And it's, I think that's why nowadays people are really appreciating tangible things and craftsman I'm going to be a little bit more because the market has been so over saturated with overconsumption and mass production and we're just sick of it. So one thing that's in the nudge article is your pinjuries that you've had working on games. I'm a fan of your games. Let's talk about some of those pin... because yeah, you're obviously a lot of times going into kind of unfamiliar territory when you're taking these games apart. I have two questions. What's your most common pinjury that you're like, oh my god, I can't believe I did this again. And what's your what's your worst, worst pinjury? You know, I use an X-Acto blade every single day. And I very, very rarely ever nick myself. So that's good because I know some people will just slice their finger hot dog long way. Hot dog style. Yeah, and that's just, that's never a good one. I'm constantly like taking a Phillips head and just like, you know, poking it at my fingertips a lot or like scrapinging my knuckles or Yeah, that's common. There's some grounding issues here or there, you find them the hard way. I've been electrocuted a few times pretty bad. Old game called Lawman at the Pinball Hall of Fame fucking took me out for the count in the middle of a tournament. It was just from the flipper, like just pushing the button in. Another sterling advertisement for the Pinball Hall of Fame. Well, hey, if you like EMs, that's where you want to go. That's for sure. I got a lot. Well, you know, if you like EMs, we'll just end that. If you like EMs. Yeah, okay. And getting screamed at. I was going to say, like, you won't even get to play them. And electrocuted. It's like, if you're not electrocuted, run off by the owners, and if it's turned on, you'll have a good time. Okay, is there any, like, modern artists in pinball that you kind of like their art, or is there anything interesting kind of happening? You said you own an Iron Maiden, but I don't know, like, that's always one of the first things that people kind of look at in games these days. I mean, what do you think about kind of where pinball art's at right now? I like things that are different and new. I like things that are throwbacks. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as it's, as long as the artist is kind of breathing whatever I personally like Cinemag grande, Zarco tone. So now, a good, a good marathon is not pretty often, except on a Saturday at the weekend as opposed to at Weekend in the National YESR and FacebookLinked IntjuicNN Lighthouse. Everything in Ca천 investments are up to the cost-beneficial complexity of?! stringpointlik diedguiagn t curious an instantado So, you know, you got to appreciate whether you like it or not. You know what came to mind when you were saying that for me was honestly one that I haven't really thought about in this way before but I really dig Pulp Fiction and like the art direction on that game and I'm not even sure honestly who the artist was for CGC for that but I just think like it kind of integrates into that sort of, like it takes some chances while it's sort of, you know, it hits all the things but it has sort of I'm a fan of the comic book style, but yeah, that's cool. The way you describe it where it's like giving the artist a liberties enough to create their fully actualized vision, right? You don't want to ever have it be death by committee where we have to check all these boxes and unfortunately this box wasn't checked. Because that's a lot of times you just want to make sure that this person's vision is able to be realized. Scott Pekulski did Pulp Fiction. I believe it's the only game he's credited for on Pinside. So, um... Well, bro, Scott... And I didn't tell you. I just got a Pulp Fiction. I traded my Walking Dead for it. Oh! So, wow! That's a cool...that's like a very interesting trade. Like, that's so...they're so different. Yeah, I know. And I'm stoked. I love Pulp Fiction. I'm like, now that I'm able to play it and hear the callouts better...the callouts are like the best part of that game. So, I'm loving it. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, sorry, I just jumped in and interrupted the question. Oh yeah, no, I mean, you know, it's in terms of like artwork on it, I think that it's, it's different. And it's, which different is hard. Like it is so outrageously difficult to, to, quote unquote, be different and just like be honest and do what you believe is right and then put it out there, especially in the pinball world, which Knapp disposed ofhome easiestuiçãopointgovernet protectiveValues ESA
    65:13
    SUBSCRIBE 96 14 Mas accurate You got to- you got to give Him credit you know ilk n ir co er f e io l
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    v a You know, that is usually the thing that people, you know, kind of, uh, poo-poo. But yeah, actually on that note, I was gonna, I don't assume anything and I definitely don't assume that you, uh, are aware of nudge stuff, but are you aware of the kind of AI art pinball, um, controversy happening right now? Um, with Nudge specifically? No, no, no, no. Uh, with- Definitely not with Nudge. I- I don't know if you have this like, piece going on. I- no, I didn't- no, not at all. So, basically, you know, like, Harry Potter potentially used, if not generative AI art on its playfield, then at least was using some sort of AI pass-through that added a bunch of weird AI artifacts to their, um, uh, to their Harry Potter games. Tantrum and the Artists yes per ables basically said in a chat GPT written apology that or not Apology but explanation I should say that do we know it was a chat GPT Written apology do we know that that's really that's really funny if whether it's true or not though but that's not I'm not the first one to point out I think I saw the Buffalo Pinball guys say it and some other people, but it is true that it uses often like AI constructs in like chat GPD speech like it say, it's not this, it's this or like if not this, then this, you know, like kind of falls into like, whenever you see the extra long hyphen that that gives it away. That's when I when I see it. But even but some dumb people have like figured that out. So they just delete that and put it in like a normal M dash one. So it's actually like not that. So but Anyway, it's been this big controversy and I guess we are kind of moving into an era, like I know Christopher Franchi commented on it. He said he's actually maybe going to use some generative AI for like, his example was, which this already kind of bums me out to hear him say this because I don't agree with this, but he said like if there's a pile of laundry on the floor, he might ask AI to like create the pile of laundry and then he'll, I guess, integrate it. I'm not sure if I can translate that into his overall art package, but what are your thoughts on AI art in general and maybe how do you see it manifesting in pinball or how would you like to see it or not see it? Um, yeah, it's tough. Personally, I haven't, like, I don't use chat GPT. Everyone around me tells me about how it's like, you know, fixing everything in their life. And, you know, maybe, maybe I need, you know, it's like, I'm, I'm resistant. I'm old school. I'm like, you know, it's hard for me sometimes to like, get on board with things. I mean, it took me 45 minutes to open up a link from your email to get, right? Um, so, um, you know, I, I'm, I tend to be kind of resistant. Um, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to be super tech savvy and pick things up right away, but that's just how I am. Um, but a part of me, a part of me really wishes that I could pick that stuff up because it's a tool. Um, and this is, this is the same thing with, you know, oh, when Photoshop, Adobe, Illustrator, all of the, oh, the Wacom tablet, like all of these things like came up and I guess it's like, it's a tool that can make things that can help you. Um, do you use it to create your whole personality? That's your choice. Um, also listening to you talk about AI. I think and chat GPT right you were just like oh you can you can read that you know it was chat GPT or like oh I know that was AI and it makes me think like is this like a fad like is this something that you will always look at and know oh that's you know 25 like yeah exactly and you know I'm a musician and I think of the same thing with I'm a fan of the auto-tune. Like when auto-tune came out, that was the big thing. Everyone's like, oh, you know, and like the Cher song, which is just egregious use of auto-tune, but now it's become almost a thing of that era, whether it's like Cher or T-Pain or, you know, there's artists that really have it on heavy where it's like you look back at it now and you go, oh, okay, that was just a part of it. And of course now everyone still uses auto-tune, but it's done in like a tasteful way, generally speaking. I think that's probably the average person that is not an artist or a person in the art field like we are probably doesn't care as long as they can't tell. And that's maybe where it's a little scary. Yeah, and it's tough for a lot of people out there that I know that are in the film industry, in any part of the art world, which, you know, geez, a decade ago, never would have thought this would be something that would be going on. And now people are, oh my god, I'm gonna lose my job or wow, it's like, you know, I'm useless, like, overnight, it feels like and that, that's hard. um you know maybe maybe that's quilted into my kind of resistance of wanting to pick up some of these tools because it's it's really kind of killing people around me in the industry yeah you know is AI going to take over my job I would like it to try and see I was just thinking that because it's so, look, an AI that's willing to both get its hands dirty enough, what do you call it, crud cutter? It's like, using, I don't see no AI using crud cutter on a pinball machine anytime soon, let alone the sort of weird, like, left and right brain capabilities to, like, diagnose these, you know, art and playfield issues. Yeah, and I mean, once it gets to that point, like, that's gonna be a robot that I'm going to quit my day job and find and beat up with my bare hands, you know? Like, that's when... You too. Yeah, I was just thinking that. Yeah, that's when I turn over into a new profession, which is killing robots. Yeah, bounty hunter, right. And I don't think we want that. Maybe we do. I don't know. But... I'll join that gang for sure. This trio actually I think would be pretty nice in a Road Kings type wasteland and maybe that is a great bookend to this interview. I'm so proud of that Road Kings. That was style right there. Ashley, thank you for doing this. Anything else to tell the people before we let you go? I know I plugged your Instagram. I'll plug it one more time. Ludwig Synopsis, if you could spell that. Pinball people can spell, right? Just like that Craigslist ad. What else to tell the people before I let you get back to your very hot day in Rochester, New York? My hot day in my closet? Hot night, I guess, actually. You know, I think it's important wherever you are to just go out and play pinball, help, you know, be out in your community in general, you know? You know, it's 2025, everything's crazy, so you know, just be good to people and play pinball and help support your community. I think that's just a good thing to do. I love that Ashley, and we did get one of those Rochester motorcycle revs right in there, right at the end. Oh geez, yes. I love it. That's like very authentic. So you know what this this is a podcast made by humans for humans. So I appreciate you so much for being here, Ashley. We'll talk to you soon. My pleasure. Thank you guys. So there it is with Ashley Ludwig, pinball restoration expert and very nice person and funny too. She's great. She's awesome. Super, dude it'll be great to like get you guys in a room together cause she's like she goes to all the conventions and stuff. She's super fun. Yeah, I want to ask her what kind of paint she really uses. I'll be like, tell me where to buy that paint. I want to know. I want to know how you're matching it to 0.5% or whatever she said. Right, yeah, well and it's just like you mentioned in the interview, like her Instagram is such a great follow. You really come away with an amazing appreciation for especially like a lot of the freehand stuff she's doing, which is just mind-blowing to me. I could see that like to both have the talent and the confidence to just do that is crazy. But, you know, it isn't without a serious amount of work too. When she was saying, Yeah. Oh, yeah, this you want me to restore this playfield. Well, it could be 80 to 100 hours. Right? Right. Yeah. And and just like that, she's scrubbing it down and using all that. Like, you know, it's just it was it's crazy. So, amazing to have her on the show and it was fun to feature a real live human being artist. So there you go. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yep. No AI around these parts. That's for sure. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. This episode really is one way we wanted to honor Matt and what the work that he's done, both in music and in pinball, really. Also, keep having fun. You are just an automatic Love your friends, everyone, and you know, life is short and cherish it. Enjoy it.