New owner for American Pinball New American Pinball to reimagine Ali Williams games Interview with Gary Stern and John Buscalia Interview with Kevin Waite from Classic Playfield Reproductions Hi, my name is Jonathan Houston. I'm the editor of Pinball Magazine, and I'm joined by... I'm Martin Eyre, and I'm the editor of Pinball News. And Jonathan and I are here to look back at all the excitement through the pinball world throughout the month of January 2026, in our very latest edition of the Pinball Industry News Pincast. And, well, it's been a busy old month, hasn't it? Yeah, well, there's quite a bit of news. No new games. Contrary to expectations. Which we'll talk about. Yeah, correct. But the news that there is a new owner for American Pinball is something that I didn't see coming, although we knew the company wasn't doing that great, but I had no idea it was available for sale. So let's start with that And then we go through the other companies Yeah, okay So American Bimble, the company And all its assets have apparently been sold By previous owners, Aintron Who established it And it's been sold to J.D. Vincent, a private investment company Which is based in San Python Anghelo In Texas That's Which is really in the middle of nowhere We're just having a look at that to see whether we could pay them a visit. But they're right out on the far west side of the state. So anyway, it's run by Brian Vincent, and he's been speaking on various outlets, including podcasts and also on Pinside as well, which is good, about his plans for the company. Yeah, great interview he did with Kerry Hardy, or as you say, Kelly Hardy. Yeah. And so his plans include keeping the design and manufacturing of games at the Palatine facility in Illinois, on the outskirts of Chicago, which is one that they share with the previous owners, Ametron. I'm not sure how that's going to work out, but I think it would seem to be a very amicable sale and no bitterness or anything about that, about having to sell the company. I think it seemed to be a friendly takeover. Yeah. Well, I assume they're just leasing the space from Atron. So there has to be a... Yes, and of course they're also buying the boards for the games from Atron as well, the circuit boards. So that deal is continuing, at least for the immediate future. So who is this Brian? Interesting, yeah. He made his money in LED lighting, and is also apparently a long-time pinball fan, which is a good start. And in the interview, he said they're all... In fact, on Pinside, he said they're all be working on securing licences for upcoming games and sees rebuilding trust in American pinball as a priority, which certainly is a very positive way to start. I think that's something which has been an issue with potential customers and existing customers as well. he said we are planning one title this year and one to two titles in each year going forward after the first game so ambitious plans but those who are wondering how he's going to be able to produce that many new designs each year were quickly informed of that when 11 days after that announcement of the purchase the company also revealed that they have a deal with Planetary Pinball to license seven of the classic Harry Williams titles and make reimagined or remake versions of them which kind of puts them alongside for Jersey Gaming and Chicago Gaming in remaking Williams Valley titles it's not clear exactly how much reimagining it's going to involve, whether it's going to be remaking them with modern technology like Chicago Gaming do with the medieval madness of Attack on Mars and Mount Sebastian and Texas Canyon, but basically keeping the game the same but adding dot matrix display, taking dot matrix out and turning it into an LCD, putting LED lighting throughout and enhancing that and RGB lighting everywhere. Or whether they're going to completely change how the game is designed and how it plays. Right. Also, we also don't know who is going to be programming those games, because I don't think there's that many programmers left at the American Football League. No. Although they did release an update for Galactic Tank Force. That's true. I think that was actually done by the team in their spare time. as a sort of passion project. I know that something David Fix said when he left the company that they were going to carry on working on it in the background along with the company's blessing. They would release the updated version that gives it the features that they always intended. But also, what we also don't know is which the titles are going to be. So they apparently, you guys, have seven titles, but we don't know how old they are, and presumably they're not ones which have already been licensed by anybody else. Well, I suppose that's part of the strategy also for sanitary. You don't want to have two different manufacturers producing the same title. I can understand that you want a certain exclusivity if you license a certain title, and the interesting thing is it's easy to take things the wrong way in the sense that when they are saying that they have been working on securing licenses for upcoming games, you might tend to think that they're going after a movie license or something. But in this case, it turns out to be licensing already existing games which should, in theory, make it easier to reproduce them in the sense that you get all the drawings for the bill of material so you know what you need, but that doesn't mean that you actually have the part available yet because you need to find vendors for all these parts as well. Yes, that's right. Another thing I was going to mention was that if you look at what's already been reproduced, for things like Funhaus, Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Cactus Canyon. I wasn't going to include Monster Bash because I was going to say those are all unlicensed titles. So, although they've been licensed from Planetary Pimple, they don't include licensed assets. Monster Bash different, it's got Universal Monsters in it, so that's another license that has to be negotiated, but it kind of limits, in a way, some of the titles you might want to go for. You know, you would want to do I don't know, Twilight Zone for instance which is one which Chicago Gaming are really working on then obviously you have to license Twilight Zone from whoever the owners of that are Right and the music as well from Golden Earring and the other Yes indeed Although I still, well if it's a reimagined game I suppose all contracts are void and you have to renegotiate everything Yeah, that's right. Well, it's reimagined. You may not be using the same assets at all. Or it could just be, you take something which is a license and you reimagine it into an unlicensed version. You know, it's possible. I can't imagine. But anyway, we'll wait to see what they come up with for that. But interesting that there seems to be proceeding at a pace over American pinball after basically just treading water for the past, couple of years really and not really producing anything much other than selling off existing stock so yeah we wish them the rest of luck and we will bring you more news on the company as and when we hear it. Right yeah so but all in all positive news for the hobby for the industry very optimistic timeline in my opinion, my humble opinion understanding that the aim is to have their first game available to be played at Trimble Expo so that doesn't mean it's on the production line yet but probably a prototype still very ambitious I'd say even if it is a reimagined game But, oh well, we've seen in the past that it's hard to start a pinball company, and if you buy a pinball company, it doesn't make it any easier, I suppose, although you do have some parts. Yeah, I've come from a certain amount of assets, and you've already got your board set lined up, you've already got your cabinet designed and manufacturing arranged and playfield cutting and all that stuff, and a certain amount of stock but yeah, you're right if they can do it and if anyone can do it American Pinball can do it you remember how quickly they managed to get the Houdini game into production after showing the John Popadouk version at Pinball Expo and within six months they had Joe Balcer's version on the line right, yeah good luck I wish them the best of luck, indeed. If you want to hear more from Brian Vincent himself, I do recommend the earlier mentioned interview that he did with Kerry Harder. I looked that up on YouTube, and that might answer a lot of questions for you. Very good. Right, moving on to a company which is producing a new game sooner than that, but not as soon as we thought. and that is called Stern Pimble and there was no Cornerstone game announced which we were expecting to be able to bring you the full details of in this month's Pimcast but in previous years that game would have been announced shortly before the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January and shown there and then shown at EAG Expo in London for the European market the week after. But that didn't happen. No new announcement at all. So, yeah. We were... We did... We were at EDG and we did talk to a couple of employees of Cernur, which we'll get into in a second. But on this subject of the new game, I understood it's basically licensing approvals that have not been approved yet, causing delays, but that could also mean, if something is not approved, and it could be related to a mechanism on the game or something else, that they have to redesign part of the game. Yes, could be, yeah. Pure speculation, but... Well, what we do know is that the game is going to be launched soon. Yes. That's cut to the chase. We believe it's going to be Pokemon. There's no confirmation of that on any social media from CERN or external facing publicity yet. Yes, widely rumored and also heavily rumored to be a Jack Danger design to be finished by George Gomez because Jack Danger got another position. Yes, that's right, doing their social media and streaming and stuff. But anyway, what we do know is that they're going to be holding an open house, media open house, at Stern Pimple on Wednesday the 11th of February, where they will be showing off this new game. Now, we were obviously both invited, and unfortunately... Obviously, yeah. No plaintiffs included in that game. Yes, an invitation and meals and chances to interview various members of the team and get some obviously good pictures and video of the game itself. But unfortunately, we can't make it, can we? Well, at least I can't. No, and I would be surprised if we managed to get action because we ask every time and it's like, yeah, sure, we can make sure that the team is available for questions through Teams or Zoom or what have you. And in the end, the devil works out. So I'll put in my request once again to see if we can have an interview with the lead designer or other members of the design team about this game, which either would be Jack Danger or George Gomez. And it would be great to have George Gomez come on our show. I don't think he's ever been there. so it's about time George but so far these requests have all been received with a very positive response and we never got a response I'm feeling very busy at this time of launch but what we do know is that as I say, first of all the media open house is on the 11th of February but according to the social media publicity from the Texas Pimple Festival, they will be the first public showing of the game. Now that Texas Pimple Festival is about five weeks later than the open house. So, what's going to happen in those five weeks? That's what we're wondering. Is Vazir going to launch the game around about or very soon after the open house on the 11th? Usually two days after. Right. So basically we've got four weeks or more between that and anybody actually seeing the game. Yeah. Well, there could be two explanations. One could be there's no other big show in between those in that period because Pimble at the Beach Festival will just have finished once the game is announced. so that already took place so you can't show it there and if the next show on the calendar is Stats of Pinball then that is the next show that doesn't mean that the game will not be available any sooner but that's also speculation. They're saying that the first public showing of it that kind of implies that it won't be available to play publicly elsewhere right well, we'll just have to wait and see how that turns out. I'm also curious whether let's say the media gets a chance to see the game and play it on the 11th of February. Let's say they get two days to prepare their articles and videos and what have you. So on the 13th of February or the 14th, well the Valentine's Day to launch a Pokémon So, the 12th or the 13th, you get a public review. It would be very odd if there would not be any gameplay until Texas Pinball Festival, when people get the chance to play it themselves and film it themselves. Yeah, well, as a plan works out. But this delay... Well, the plan could be to sell as many before people see how it plays. Oh, yes. Certainly seem to be plenty of people who are predicting it's going to be a smash hit. I mean, it is Pokemon. It's not everybody's capital. Well, it's not mine, that's for sure. But certainly... Mine? It seems to be plenty of people who are very excited by the theme, if that is indeed what it is. Yes. Well, it's an interesting demographic, because generally speaking, I like to think that this is a younger audience that might not be that very familiar with Pokemon. Pokemon is actually having its 30th anniversary this year, if I'm not mistaken. And so we're talking about kids in their, well, mid-30s to early 40s who grew up with Pokemon, the cartoon series that is, and then later on you got the Pokemon Go games and which turned out to be a great hype. I still don't see that many of them buying pinball machines, but it could be a great game for to operate on location. because it still resonates with a lot of people, and it might attract a completely new audience to pinball. So in that sense, it could be a very interesting... Yeah, and also the gameplay and the design is suitably interesting, and let's face it, with Jack Danger and George Gomez both working on it, there's every chance that it's going to have a fascinating and well-shooting playfield. it could overcome that license anyway and just sell itself on gameplay we've seen that happen in the past yeah with movies that take a few attacks yeah I mean look at The Shadow and I'd say Demolition Man to an extent although it's such an awful movie but Congo, there you go, Congo's a great game I don't like that movie Congo? Oh Demolition Man I agree, yeah Anyway, we're digressing We were talking earlier about EAG Expo and the fact there wasn't A new Stern-Cornstein game there What they did have Was five machines That were on the Electrocoin stand They had I'm trying to work out what they did have They had Venom, James Bond Uncanny X-Men Dungeons and Dragons and the Walking Dead Remastered. Of course, they didn't have Star Wars, Fall of the Empire, because that's not available to buy in Europe. That contrasts with what they had at the CES show in Vegas the week before, where they had Walking Dead Remastered, Dungeons & Dragons, The Uncanny X-Men, two of the Star Wars, Fall of the Empire, on one row of the stand, and another Walking Dead and another Star Wars Walking Dead remastered and another Star Wars on another side with a C-3PO actor walking around in full gear they did four Drinks with Jack interviews with our friend who we haven't interviewed yet, George Gomez Seth Davis and Gary Stern together, Brian, Eddie Elliot Eisenman and Keith Elwin together as game designers and Zombie Yeti, Chuck Ernst and Stephen Martin as artists so they had quite a presence at CES but much reduced in their display at EAD where it's on the Electrocoin stand with five older titles, although for many people it was the first chance for them to play The Walking Dead Remastered but they didn't get the chance to play Star Wars. However, if you're in the UK and you want to play Star Wars, I can give a little hint that it's actually available to play at Pimble Republic in Croydon in London. So you're not frozen out, little Star Wars joke there, frozen out completely. You can still play it in the UK. Anyway, while we were there, we had a chance to sit down, as we often do with Gary Stern and this time he was joined by John Buscalia and you may remember we mentioned before that Stern people were opening a new European sales office in Amsterdam which is going to be headed up by John Buscalia so obviously that's right Yeah, so we want to talk to them, obviously, about that, what they hope to achieve in the new office, what the scope of it's going to be, how it fits in with other European sales promotions, the issues with licensing, seeing as Star Wars wasn't there. And I'll give you a little clue here that Gary admits that they made a mistake with the Star Wars licensing and vows that they won't allow that to ever happen again. And talk about much, much more. that's going on at Stern Pimple along with a couple of what's cooking with yeah well so let me chime in here to explain to our listeners the situation so this is a trade show we've been there all day at the somewhere around 2.30 Gary Stern and John Buscaglia showed up they've been in meetings in a special area upstairs and I asked whether they would be available for an interview and they were so I texted Martin who was also at the show but he was just recording his infamous walkthrough yes and so I didn't get a response from Martin because he's filming and he can't answer his phone because he's walking the entire show which takes up an hour that's 30 minutes for that show it's not too big but yeah I couldn't answer so anyway what happened is I went upstairs with Gary and John and well obviously they had plans of their own so we did not wait for Martin to show up, but we started off with a little chit-chat and so on. And before you know it, basically everything being said is pure gold, and we intend to use it. So you're going to get basically the whole conversation that went on up to the point where Martin's walking in. I might edit that a little bit. and then we do the interview as we normally would do, but by that time I already had two recipes coming from Gary and from John. It would be a pity not to share this with you. So enjoy my conversation and Martin's with Gary Stern and John Buscaglia of Stern Pinball. We didn't come here to talk about that. We came here to talk about that. Don't say insider connected. Don't say the word. It's the future. Why a future? I honestly don't... Did you find your buddy? No. I texted him. We're in room seven, and I talked to him to come up whenever he could. Oh, okay. Because we're going to talk, and I'm going to go take a nap before having to go to the next event. So should we talk about recipes again, or something like that? That's for John. We discussed your recipes. I got some rare recipes. No, no, I gave them the new cook. Oh, God. The chicken leg. Did you see what we did with that? Yeah, I think I did, yeah. We actually printed that in the text. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought it was hilarious. It works. It works. Yeah, it works. It really works, you know. All you need is a microwave. Right. I had lived in a townhouse, and so it had a stove with a microwave, and I had a microwave from before at a Jen Air Grill stove with a microwave. So steak, potatoes, and vegetables. The steak goes to defrost for five minutes. you throw it on the grill for five minutes flip flop and at the same time the baked potatoes are in one of the microwaves the other one of course has the vegetables for five minutes and you know 10 minutes you got you know the whole thing is an air fryer air fry make that potato crisp i have an air fryer now but i don't know how to work it no no babbage gave it to me i said no i can't have an air fryer it is everything's white in my kitchen so i found a white air fryer and i have it That's a big toaster, an air fryer. But it works nicely. I don't know. I got a little toaster that I use on top of it. I never use the new one. I think my kids might have used it. So that tells you all about pinball and what we're doing. It wraps this up. Thank you. This is a wrap. Thank you. If you want an easy, quick recipe, I can tell you what. It's my version of Italian wedding soup. Oh, okay. Go ahead. And it's very, very simple. Yeah. First thing you do is you take a little olive oil and you fry up, you crush garlic. And I use a lot. I'll use at least 10 cloves. Okay. You fry that up, and then you take a cup of chicken broth. Yeah. And when the garlic starts to get brown, you throw the cup of chicken broth in there, and you cook it down. It almost becomes like a little bit of a juice, right? Yeah, okay. And then you throw a little bit more chicken broth in on top, and you have the extra flavor. And then what you do is you throw in, I use spinach, right? Yeah. Maybe, I use a lot of spinach, but you use a good amount of spinach, at least two or three cups of spinach. I'll throw the spinach in there, and then I'll use, I use basically any bean. You can use any bean. But the best bean is the northern Italian, you know, cannelloni type bean. You wash those off, obviously. You throw one can of that in there. And then what you do is, if you have leftover tomato sauce, two tablespoons of that. If you don't, you can put a little bit of tomato paste in there just to add a little bit of that particular flavor. And then you can either, you know, cook a little bit of elbow macaroni on the side or whatever you want to do. Throw that into that. And then if you really want to get crazy, you buy some, you know, meatballs on the side. Like, you know, I used actually meatless meatballs. And you cook those up. You put them in the broiler or you just even, you can even put them in the microwave. Five or six meatballs. stick it in with the you have the broth the juice broth then the extra cup of broth then you have the spinach in there you've got the cannelloni beans you throw in the meatballs and then you make sure you salt and pepper it to taste but the key is you buy the best Parmesan cheese and you do a lot of it and then when that thing's served up you put the Parmesan cheese complete the whole top And you have an amazing Italian wedding suit for me. Okay, so this starts with garlic. A lot of garlic. A lot of garlic. And this explains John's dating life. That is 100%. The good news is my kids all smell like me. Hey, Martin. Hi, Martin. Yeah, you're late. We're almost done. You knew what I was doing. I was doing it. What have you seen here? what's been exciting. Not much. The show? Pretty disappointing show, I'd say. You think so? Well, let's see. We've got cranes. We've got cranes. No, no, cranes are much more popular today. You know, this is a trend. Trend. In America, we have a restaurant. Crane arcades. No, not restaurant. People are opening crane arcades. They're just cranes. You know why? Well, because it's easy to operate because you don't need anybody there. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. Eunice is very big on their brand of crane. Do they brand them with a theme? Eunice has some theme on them. I can't remember what it is. You'll have to look into it. But cranes are a big trend in operating in America. And crane arcades. Nothing but cranes in them. Nothing but cranes. It's a little bit different than in Japan where you've got cranes with toilet paper in them and cranes with the little plastic kinky sex dolls or whatever they are. All kinds of different stuff in Japan. You need to get your band chosen. So I am. It's tough to run low on toilet paper. I'm running. I'm running. Stop it. And all the Chinese stuff, well, he knows all this because he knows what's going on in the market. But all the, you know, the Chinese game. First of all, Chinese stuff is cheap and that's been disruptive to the game business right now. Here, a $5,000, $6,000 driver versus, you know, a $15,000, $25,000 American driver. Yeah, in the arcade, maybe people don't make that differentiation. in the same way that those industries would. Yeah, yeah. It's a driving game, but it's not Daytona. They're getting better. They're getting better, though. They are getting better, and they're getting more reliable. You know, reliability is still the answer to things. So we have a lot to talk about here. Well, I thought all we were really going to talk about is... Oh, we talked about it already. No, no, no. All this is interconnected, that's all. Well, that's what you want to talk about. I told Gary not to talk about insider connectors that's all that's possible I've built into your DNA now I really don't understand why anybody especially operating a game would operate a game that's not connected because it's connected it gives you so much information to it and now with with home leaderboards with the all access in the home leaderboards. Yeah, we're not going to talk about all of that. But I'm interested in the sheer amount of data you must be getting from these entirely connected games. What on earth are you going to do with all that? You must have to throw away about 90% of it. You know, from your real business, the whole thing of connectivity is two-way street. And the data that we get, the better games to see where they're earning money, to see when they're being played and so forth and you know we have hundreds of thousands of people playing on Insider Connected now. Of course but the vast majority of that data must be useless to you. I mean there's certainly gold in there I think it's like gold prospecting isn't it? There are a few little nuggets in there which are really good. It's not that it's useless, it's that prospecting it. There's so much that you have to set up systems to retrieve it all. But Seth is on top of all that. And with Erica, who's our CTO, who worked on creating as a, you know, when she had a separate company, they created Insider Connected. They're mining some of it, you know, already. You know, they have been mining some. And they're... But your point is right. So you can't drill down to specific instances of that data. If you want to know how long a particular game is played for in a particular location, you can get that information in that type of location. Yeah, that's right. You can get it, but on the other hand, how many times do you actually need to know that? Well, there's some of it that is helpful, and some of it could be helpful if you could figure out how to get it or how to use it. But there's also, I mean, all the data from people playing at home is basically useless in the sense that if you want to find out more about what's being played on location. No, but what's playing at home is 70% of our games are at home. That's very, you know, 70% of our play is on the street and 70% of our games are at home. And that we know because why? data. We know that. And so it's... And you can compare to how games play in the home to how they play in locations. That's true. And designers can see what features are being made and this is just... It's a very different way of playing games than when you're playing them at home to when you're actually paying to play the game. That's probably It's true. Yeah. It's something about paying for things. Yeah, people have an expectation when they're paying. They already paid for it, and now it's in their home. It's not usual to dislike your first ball, and we start the game of your paying in a pub. Right. But we are here. I was going to tell you. I was going to say, I do apologize to our listeners. I'm not really part of this. Oh, no, no. No, you are part of this. Definitely are. Yeah, yeah. But, just to catch up, Martin, John Buscaglia just shared a delicious recipe with us. Oh, fantastic. For West Cooking with John Buscaglia. And what's the dish? It's Italian morning soup. My version of it. My single man version of it. Vegan. Well, actually, no. I crossed the border when you started adding chicken soup. Well, you can use vegetable broth and make it vegan. Yes. But I made the commitment that if and when I ever have the opportunity to live and visit Europe, that I'm going to be moving away from my vegan diet, which I have done. I've seen them eat meat. I've seen them eat meat. It was ugly, but I was talking about it. I had this conversation with my daughter, a long conversation about it, is that the one thing when I was a vegan diet for four years, the one thing is that people start to associate your identity with the fact that you're a vegan. And the one thing that I never really liked is for people to associate, you know, me with an identity that wasn't. And, like, I'm a huge animal activist, and I love animals, and I care deeply about them, And I'm a huge supporter of the humane treatment of food processing, which is one of the reasons why I became a vegan. But what happened was is that you all of a sudden become invisible with regards to going out to dinner and ordering and nobody even notices. And then all of a sudden you go out to a business dinner or whatever and you say, Nobody notices. Everybody notices. No, if you're not. If you're not a vegan. I'm saying people just eat, right? But when you go out to a business dinner and you're at Gibson Steakhouse and everybody goes around, I'll share the 55,000-pound thing with Gary, and then they come to me and it's like, well, I'll have a baked potato and some mushrooms on the side, and everybody stops talking. And they're like, what are you having? And the reason is because as a vegan, all he ate was carbs. Well, carbs. It's just shocks you. So one of the things I'm really trying to do is I don't eat a lot of meat. Now, if it's a specialty to a culture, like, for example, I was with a gentleman in Austria, in the boonies in Austria, and we went out to his special local restaurant, and they had meals that, you know, I've never even heard of before. But he culturally said, this is from our region, and you have to try this, and you have to try that, and they brought, you know, a soup with the stuff in it. I'm glad you haven't been to Africa yet. Right, right. And honestly, it was very uncomfortable for me to say, oh, I can't eat any of that, I'm a vegan. So that's what got me actually off of being as disciplined to saying, you know, I'm a vegan and this is a part of my lifestyle. Because being a vegan was really more a part of me just supporting the humane treatment of animals. but humans and their culture and them wanting for you to be a part of it by exposing it to you was something that I'm also very passionate about and that kind of started to break me down and introduce me back to eating meat okay that's not why we're here we're here to talk about not with the detour we're back to inside of connected no, we're here to talk about the establishment of your European office now in Amsterdam yes And has that happened yet? No. It hasn't happened. I've spent several trips visiting Amsterdam. And, you know, first of all, I would start with this scenario. You know, I came to Gary, you know, five, six, seven years ago. And when they hired me, you know, originally. That was more than six, seven years ago. That was 2012. Well, I mean, 2013. But when they hired me, I had the ability, which was wonderful, to get involved with setting up a distribution channel. We called it the Harley-type model. Right. And we set up dealers, and we took a lot of what the Harley dealers were doing at that time, which was showrooms and the way that they sold and accessories and all that stuff. And, you know, I had that in my prior background to a certain extent. and it was fantastic. It was wonderful. We were a small little organization. You know, I had two or three people reporting to me, and it was great. It was a very small business, and we grew and we grew and we grew, and it got to the point where I had, you know, over 60 people reporting to me with all these different areas, and we sat down as an organization saying, okay, you know, how do we now organize so that we can be as efficient and as effective as possible in order to continue to sustain this growth. So we very selectively brought in some, you know, very high-skilled individuals to help the organization, such as Seth. And then we brought in, you know, a marketing guy from WWE, Matthew, and Activision. And we brought in Erica, who had a huge background. So all of these different areas started to, you know, move away from me, right? And where I was just focusing on sales initially and setting up the distribution channel, I started setting up, you know, working with the tech support and building out Pat's department. I started working with the PAM division and building out accessories and parts and hiring enough staff. I built the logistics department that used to just be shelly. You know, it became so large and it became so overwhelming, honestly, that, you know, I went to Gary and I said, Hey, Gary, listen, if we ever have the opportunity someday where I'm able to split these departments out, I said, it's always been a dream of mine to live in Europe and to work in Europe. And I applied for dual citizenship years ago for my... Yeah, to be an Italian dual citizen. And I wasn't able to. I went through this big process and even went down to Miami to try to make this happen. Because I have family that are still here in Europe, still in northern Italy. And I have a huge passion. I got married. I don't think you're generationally married. My father was actualized before. My grandfather came here as an Italian citizen. He got actualized before my father was born, so it disqualified him. Yeah, yeah. So I wasn't able to get it. Yeah, if your father was Italian, you'd be able to do it. But your grandfather doesn't work. Well, that's right. That's right. And he was. My father was actually. And not with the VTour. But anyway, to make a long story short, so I said to Gary, I said, Gary, listen, if we ever get to the point where the company grows, I would love, because this is what I'm passionate about, building distribution channels. And I'm good at it. And I get it. And I know it. And at that time, I said, because this was six years ago. I said something like, no fucking way. Which is, you know, we have changed our direction in the sense that, which John will explain in a minute, that we've had tremendous growth in America. We haven't had the similar growth here. And part of it is the systems that we set up that we are changing. What kind of systems are you talking about? So systems would be, when you take a look at overall distribution, you have to look at your pricing structures. It all comes down to the four Ps, really, right? You have the products, which we do far better than anybody in the history of pinball, right? And then you have the price. And the pricing in Europe is different than the way that we price in the United States. Before John joined, I explained to our European importers, distributor importers, that the growth area was the home business, you know, not just the enthusiasts, but, you know, the general public, the first-time buyer. And they finally, it took about two years, and they finally accepted that. And they used the model that they used in commercial where they sold some games direct to operators. I wish they had done that with the consumer business. And they used jobbers in those days to augment. Because you had so many operators that everybody had their own favorite to buy from. so some of our distributors went to sell direct and through jobbers or dealers and some of them gave it all to dealers which added especially during COVID too much margin so John came to the conclusion that the prices here were when the in his research when the buyer here the end user looked at, forgetting that, which is outrageous here, but that's another question, looked at our MSRP versus what games were being paid for in American MSRP, that it was way out of line expensive here. So Johnson went to, can't control prices here, but went to encourage fairer pricing. It's the elasticity of demand. Yeah. Yeah. So you start with that P, and then you start to build a playing field where you empower your distribution partners, you know, to really take a look at the business in several ways. We have new first-time buyers, and we have the community, and certainly first-time buyers within the community, and we really put a laser focus on how we're going to support each individual group. And some of it's done through marketing, you know, whether it's investing in lead generation to get new first-time buyers, which in the United States we've had tens of thousands of new-time leads that we've been able to generate with incredibly high close rates. and the new first-time buyers in the United States is at an all-time high as we continue to grow that out. Within the United States, our dealer business is growing at a very significant rate year after year after year, and it's a lot of the things that we've done to not just supplement and to support the community, which is huge for us, through things like enthusiast trade shows. And in Europe, I'm going to place a major emphasis on clubs. Jonathan and I talked about that, which is also used to make sure we support it. And then in the United States where me and a group of other people created the Stern Army, we want to also leverage that so that we're supporting the clubs as well as Insider Connected and also taking a look in Europe at the locations that are doing well with pinball. So if you have a location that, let's say, has four games in it, I would like to know, you know, who owns that location? What's the operator in that location? What condition are the games in? Are the games set up? Are they set up with Insider Connected? Do they have a leaderboard? And then start to really build out those locations and have those as seeds, as well as continuing to grow and expand out the club business. And then the other thing that we're doing and that we're looking at is we've created a relationship, and it's not exclusive, but in relationship with the Dutch Pinball Museum, which they are going to get games first in Europe. And we're going to make sure that the games are expedited to get them the games. And we're going to be working with Gerard to do, you know, amazing things with live streams and introductions of the product so that Europe's not always lagging behind. and you know so with us taking a look at making the games affordable so where people can buy them and then supporting the distribution channel with lead generation so that we can continue to attract not just new first consumers who are in the enthusiast world, but also people that are new first-time buyers. Because in the United States, it's a little bit different here, I believe, because of the size of people's houses. is when we get a first-time buyer, there's a 50% opportunity or chance that they're going to buy a second, third, and fourth game. The reason we're building out the clubs over here, and I want to put a major focus on that, is because I want to create that same type of thing where we get that new first-time buyer and then connect them up with a club. So if they don't have the space in their house, they don't have a reason for not buying that second game. So we get them more involved in the clubs. Gary and I both are motorcycle riders and very familiar with clubs. And, you know, we want to take a lot of the things that are, you know, that are fun, that work in what we're doing in locations in the United States and really apply that to clubs to even add more oomph and excitement and power to generate that experience, that customer and consumer experience from the enthusiast level. So what can clubs do then to contact you to become part of this? I say that one more time. What can they do? We've got a pinball club. We have 60, 70 machines there. Yeah. We've got a lot of new stones in. But what can you do for us? I mean, to help us promote stone games? He's developing it. He's just learning about clubs and so forth. And what you can do is, John.Pascalia, start a pinball.com. Everybody, load his email box up. I'll do it. If you're a club, please do reach out. and then you're going to create a program. But I mean, what's that going to look like? Okay, well, first of all, it would look like this. I would like for the experience to be, you know, energized. I know that clubs do different things with regards to having events, tournaments, they're open certain days a week. You can, you know. Is your club an Army location? I think it is. It's certainly part of the IFPA's tour. Yeah, but is it an Army location? So what we can do with that club is if you break that club down, you can say, okay, what type of events can we do there? Well, we can certainly have tournaments. We can certainly have parties. We can certainly have – Have parties. What's that? Launch parties. We can have launch parties. Unofficially. Well, not just launch parties. Here's one of my other ideas. He's talking about having support. But I'm also talking about if we have a pinball location, right, maybe we can have a party there with a big corporation. You know, maybe one of the tech firms wants to do something as a Christmas party and we can turn that club into a really fun, you know, get a band in there or whatever, if it works. And we can do other things. The main thing is to create as much excitement and energy within that club, around that club, so that we can expose as many people to pinball, not just maintain the people that we have that are currently in the club and enhance that experience, but also create new experiences through just creative thinking in terms of what that club can offer. That's great. I mean, we already do a lot of that kind of stuff already. Yeah. And we're looking to see what you can do to help us. We can promote it. You already do that, but other clubs don't. No. We can promote it. Yeah. We can... How many clubs in the UK, do you think? Less than half a dozen. Half a... Give or take half a dozen? Yeah. Okay. We can... Do most of them, most of these, are they the clubs with their own clubhouse with games in it? Or are they clubs where people go from house to house? No, no. They're all single locations. Okay. There are clubs also... Where people... Members of the clubs bring their own machines to it. Yeah. And, of course, to my left is the expert on pinball clubs here. You are, of course. He referred to Marcel Van Kessel, the main organizer of the Dutch Pinball Association. The Dutch Pinball Association has a very different model to the way that we operate. Most clubs operate. I'll introduce you to the Dutch Pinball Association. Oh, I'm really excited for all that stuff. Because, you know, I've always, and without getting into too much detail, I mean, I wasn't planning. When I left TOPS, I went back and, as you know the story, I got my master's in early childhood education and was enrolling in a doctorate program so that I could become a college professor and teach when these guys called me up. And the reason that I didn't pursue my Ph.D. is because of the community aspect. And the company that I'd worked for prior, you know, is Topps, was a huge lifestyle brand with a massive community. And when you're doing something and you're working for a company like Stern or for Topps, the people that are involved in the hobby, just like you guys, right, we're not selling peanut butter here. I mean, and you're not even just selling sponge. We had Headhunter looking for somebody that had sales marketing and brought us various people in Chicago that sold chemicals to Walgreens, drugstores, and sold this and that. There was one person from outside of Chicago, and the resume said Topps, which is the trading card people. And I said to my partner, never having met John, and I said, he'll be the one. He's our guy. Yeah. because we were doing collectibles in a sense the LE's were collectible now we're way past the collectible business we have a collectible aspect but we're way past that but that's you know the sales marketing guys who ran sales forces that sold to Walgreens or what have you generic-ish products So at what point did you decide, okay, we've got to have a European office? Okay. This is in the last year. Yeah. And why? Well, the main reason is that we reached the point in the organization where, you know, I think two things have occurred. I think within our U.S. distribution, I personally, along with a few other people, I opened up Costco, which is one of the best marketing things that we've ever done. So many people have been exposed to pinball. And literally, I had a call from some guy who said, I've now bought my 15th LE, and I started off with a Costco game. And it doesn't compete at all against our current distribution. And the games are the home units. They're under $5,000. And it's tremendous, tremendous, you know, get people interested in the hobby. So we did Costco, right? And we brought in some amazing talent, you know, from a marketing perspective and an IT perspective. And, you know, and again, we brought in Seth Lee, the organization. And the numbers spoke. The numbers spoke. And the numbers were we're growing in America, and we've got a population of 300 million. And Europe has a population of 500 million, and we were not getting the growth here. So we're doing something wrong compared to what we're doing. And are those skill sets accurate? Can I take what we've done in the United States and grow Europe? because Europe is such a... Adapting it knowing that the Europeans are different than the Americans. Well, that's certainly different. Of course. Each of their own rules and regulations. Each has its own language. Well, and then... Let me interrupt him for a minute. He recognizes and points out that America and Europe are different. Their population is certain. Certainly, we follow each other in styles and so forth. not only are America and Europe different but each country he has to deal with is different you sell a car in France and you talk about the quality of the leather you sell a car in Germany you talk about the motor and the horsepower and this or that there's differences of how he's going to attract it to different countries nonetheless Europe is one market with differences but it's one market versus America it's a different market And also, you have one thing in common. You have incredibly passionate consumers that are involved in a community that tie people together. If you take a look at the base of who likes pinball, who is an enthusiast or whatever, really, a competitive player, that's a global piece. finding out the best way to distribute the products to get as many people involved in our enthusiast community is something that you're going to have different tactics and different techniques to get there, which is what excites me about following and finding and learning what those tactics are. Yes, they're different, certainly, in every country. They're different in Asia. They're different in Australia. They're different in the U.S. They're different in Canada, and they're different in Europe. And I'm extremely motivated and excited about learning about those different things, which I've already learned a tremendous amount about and have a lot further to go. So, no, the way that we distribute products will not be a cookie-cutter model of the United States, but the way that I work with the community and the way that we work with tactics to bring new people into the community, because as people would say, rising tides raise all ships, we want to grow out. We want more people involved in this, in what we are and what we have, which is the main reason why I'm still doing this, which is the main reason at my age why I even want to move to Europe, because I want to continue to have more people involved in this. Now, the one thing I like to say, and I know I'm rambling on here, but people that I've met in the community have a special connection to this. When I greeted people at Expo and I greeted 1,200 people, I was the guy who met everybody. At the parking lot with the student tour, you were the first one to get everybody off the bus. That's right. And the reason that I took that position to do that, everybody I met was just thrilled. They were excited. They were motivated. They couldn't wait to see the experience. And that's what's different about our community. Pinball people are unbelievable. They're very, very good, gentle, loving people that love each other. And this is, you know, I'm involved in a business helping to bring them online. When was the last time you saw a brawl at a football? The last time Canada was there. And that's a true story, by the way. But, no, I mean, I love this community, and I'm very, very passionate about it. Okay, so you decided to set up a European office? why Amsterdam? well why not Italy? I tried you tried Valencia? yeah Valencia Rotterdam is one of the largest if not you know it's the second largest port in you know so if someday this business grows I think I can best answer that with corporate stuff you know you look at companies that come here they often go to Amsterdam, they've got good ports. But they have good tax laws for corporations or companies. They have good – it's a normal place that you're going to go. It's got good airport transportation. So it's just – it's central, good – you know, central, good port, central. Not that we have to ship it to ourselves, but – Smart business-wise. Yeah. It's a business thing. So we actually, a couple of years ago, had commissioned a study of different ramifications of being in Germany and being in, which is a bigger market than Amsterdam, than Holland, and being in France and so forth. And the conclusion that you get from the business consultants is Netherlands. Yeah, I'll take that. They're all wrong. Plus, Jonathan's there. So he can help me get around. What's the first benefit that we as Sternfield players and collectors are going to feel from you having a European office? Well, I think the first thing that I'd like to see is I'd like to see the prices of the games to the end users be more affordable. That's the first thing. And I'd like to see a more competitive market in the standpoint where we raise the bar in terms of, you know, access to the community, enhancing the community, whether it's through clubs or locations or people's houses with leaderboards. I'd like to see the communication process greatly improve. That's why we're working programs like with the Dutch Pinball Museum, which is fantastic. And we would love to have other, you know, whether it's clubs or other museums or whatever, in order to continue to build that out. and to make the community much more aware of each other. One of the guys that I'm friendly with who lives in Amsterdam, he happens to work for a guitar company. He's the director of European sales. And I asked him, I said, you know, what are some of the challenges? What are some of the things that I should be feeling? Are we talking about Nate? Nate, yeah. And Nate said it's hard for me to connect to other people in the community because there's not as many locations to go play at. Which goes back to the clubs. Which goes back to the clubs. And he goes, I really miss it. I miss being in the United States and pretty much having something to do every night with pinball. And I would like to make that more prevalent. I'd like to give people the opportunity to connect on a more frequent level and looking at all the different places and all the different ways that we can do that. But those are the things. strengthening the community, really focusing in on the enthusiast shows so that, you know, in the United States, as you know, my God, we've done, when I got here 13 years ago, I was working with Mandeltort and Marco, and, you know, the shows were in little holiday inns with, you know, 45 games, and now, you know, they're in convention centers and Midwest Gaming Classic and Southern Pride, that show in Georgia used to be, you know, nothing, and I'm going to place the same level of focus and attention on building out the show programs that I did with Paul and had an integral part with that. And we're already seeing some progress from some of the things that we're doing. So really giving people the chance to play more often, more frequently, and to connect with others in the community, and also giving consumers the opportunity to buy games at more affordable prices. As you, you know, you're talking about this, it sounds like we just made a decision yesterday. We, John hired somebody, Lloyd, in Europe a year and a half ago. Yeah. So the process was, I said that we did research a few years ago as to where, again, Nate, where's Nate located? You mentioned Nate. Well, Amsterdam. Amsterdam because that's where you go instead of Valencia or wherever it is. John did this great PowerPoint. It was really good of how he should move to Valencia, right? And so what did Dave say to you? So I did this amazing PowerPoint. It was beautiful. And Valencia is like a lot of startup gaming companies are going there. And the culture is very hip and it's very vibrant and it's the number four Port City in Europe and I did this amazing PowerPoint and the owner of the company wrote back and said, looks like a great place to vacation. Maybe you could stop there when you're on vacation at the Amalfi Coast. You could stop in Valencia on your way to Lake Como. Yeah. You're going to answer that. So I didn't quite make Valencia. Maybe I'll make it for vacation. In comparing what you do in Europe as to what you do in the US and the shows there. You obviously worked very closely with Marco there. Well, he did. Yeah. I know. But they were able to go to a whole bunch of shows across the country and set up impressive looking Stern Pinball stands. He doesn't work with them anymore. He stopped working with them. He took it over himself. History. This is how you're able to to have a very impressive presence at these shows. But you haven't got that kind of single distributor or network here. In every country, going back to your distributor network, which you've been pushing that for a long, long time, but it's kind of broken down a bit in the US. It's not so segregated anymore. It's where people can buy games from. They don't have to buy it from their state's distributor. they can buy games from you for a start. Not really, we don't sell to America. We sell to you. Only through... Every game launch there's a certain number available for... I'm on the LA for two minutes. Yeah, for two minutes for the lucky few. People are insider connected. But the point is, it's a lot less segregated over there, the market, the distributor market over there, is in Europe where, you know, in the UK, for instance, where we are now, there's one distributor. And you can't really buy a game from anywhere else. Well, you buy from Phil. Yeah, exactly. But UK is unique in that it's not part of the European community. So it's got, you know, the genius of Brexit is, you know... Yeah, but if you're in France, then you're probably going to buy it from the French. You're not going to buy it from somebody in Belgium, probably. Well, you know, your European law with passive sales versus active sales pretty much is taken down. So we're listening to it having taken down the restrictions because there's no restrictions on passive sales. No, but that's something which has kept prices artificially high over the years. Where is that? The lack of competition. John has addressed that, yes. We have addressed it. So there's going to be a lot more flexibility in how consumers purchase in the future. and we'll make some recommendations on what we think are margins that the consumers will be happy about, which basically will allow them to enter the consumer market, whether a first-time enthusiast buyer or a first-time new buyer from somebody outside of the industry, at a more competitive price. And I'm going to be very, very watchful with, you know, the impact on what's the right level of price elasticity without, you know, we can't control anything, but we can only make recommendations and such. But that's a big piece. So the consumer will have more flexibility where they can buy and who they can buy from. and the pricing will have some recommendations that we feel as a company are healthy for the market to continue to grow or to grow at a rate that is acceptable. On a slight technical aspect to that, which is probably not something you want people to do, but with the Spike 3 system, do you still have that 50 hertz, 60 hertz? Yes, we do. Check, you do. So you don't want people buying games in the U.S. That's correct. Okay. Because we think that the market is better served. It's a whole different issue. Oh, I know. It's a different issue than being able to sell games all over Europe versus bringing games from a totally different market without a service organization at all behind it And without, there are different requirements in the EU for radio admissions and things like that than in the U.S. So the games that would be shipped from the U.S. would not meet the standards. We use different standards for the U.S. So, you know, it's a different issue than cross-country selling here versus bringing games from the U.S. That's why I say it's a technical question. But I know a lot of people had that question when you introduced spike three. It still do that. Yeah, it still has that. But again, concerned with meeting the legalities. Yeah. A bunch of games coming in here that aren't compliant would not serve pinball well. whereas games coming from France to Germany or Germany to Italy does not have any of those kind of problems with it. Okay. Now, since you're going to be focusing on growth in Europe, part of what I assume results in sales is team choices. and licenses. Does that mean that you might be focusing on licenses that are appealing to Europe more than the U.S.? We have in the past. And how did that work out? Worked out okay. Iron Maiden is not an American title, the band. No, and James Bond is. Well, James Bond's worldwide. I know, but I'm saying in Europe. It's a very good title. Most of the titles are very good for Europe. But Iron Maiden in particular is not such a popular band in America, whereas here I go to an event in Belgium and everybody was wearing Iron Maiden sweatshirts. That's just an example of picking a title that is better for Europe than for America. Right. obviously, well, you do a lot of Marvel licensed titles and so on. Is that more well, Marvel is also worldwide, but maybe this is my personal perspective, but I sense it's bigger in America than it's in Europe. I don't sense that. Okay. Movie statistics don't sense that. Those are international titles. you get Disney, Lucas, Marvel they're pretty international ok on that topic Mickey Mouse is everywhere yeah obviously we don't have Star Wars for the MRI here can you tell us a little bit about why we don't have that we they they bifold the license and we there are a few territories that we'd normally get that we thought we were going to get and we didn't. That won't happen again. Why will it not happen again? Because we're not going to allow that. We're not going to buy a title that we aren't sure that we have. Oh, right. This was sprung on you then. Huh? This was sprung on you. You weren't expecting this. We weren't expecting it and we expected that we would overcome it and we did not. So who got fired? I can't do fine is this something which you're seeing more I mean obviously media companies there's a lot of mergers going on in the media business with movie studios as well as we're seeing now with Paramount and Disney taking over Fox all these licenses are coming under different companies is that making it more complex from a licensing point of view or is it actually making it easier because now you have fewer people to deal with I don't do licensing like I used to because I was direct I did a lot of them for a long period of time but you go to the shows you go to the licensing shows actually I don't anymore Seth and Jodie go it doesn't need me to go there too but having said that not the mergers per se, but I'm just going to say that licensing is more difficult than it was... We have more competition now, for sure. And not just that, the licensing divisions of these different media companies are... I mean, it used to be an aside. It used to be just, you know, something they did. I think the story is what created licensing in my mind was George Lucas when he did the first Star Wars and I guess he went to Ladd who was the head of the studio and said well you owe me money I'll tell you what instead of giving me more money from this first movie just give me the licensing right so calls down the licensing well we don't do that much Okay, you can have all the ancillary rights for Star Wars, which Lucas had. Now, Lucas is now part of Disney. But that was, what, $8, $10 billion ago that I created. But it was much simpler then. And I've watched it over the years become much more large departments. And John's familiar with this because he was at T.O.P.S. and you guys saw the same stuff and we had some of the same titles. We still debate about... What's the Williams game? Oh, attack from Mars. The Mars attack. Yeah, yeah. You said they ripped it from you. Well, I'm just going to... I won't badmouth anybody, but we had the feeling at Tofts that we were kind of taken advantage of. by the way that was yeah a designer on your company who can tell you what exactly happened well from what I understand then well they were very very clear they came up with their idea first long before the movie the well I didn't actually hear that but the movie was they had they actually had a season it was actually a comic book I'm not sure from a timing standpoint yeah but there was a comic book that we felt that the pinball machine was based upon. Ah, right, yeah. So rather than the movie. Yeah. The change of the name was kind of a sleight of hand, so. Yeah. But it was easier back then with the license. No Good Gophers was what? Caddyshack. Hmm. Okay. Oh, well, companies have been doing that for years, haven't they? Yeah, I know, but that kind of stuff doesn't, you know, it's not the same today. we would no more do that than the man in the moon today well no because you actually want the license they need the assets as well well there's the other point you know in the licensing we use so many more assets than any other product you know video games don't use as much assets as we do they create a lot more assets of their own sometimes and we get them sometimes but nobody has to strain on a licensing department as much as we are. But you do that as well, though. You create your own assets. Oh, absolutely we do. We'll be David Nelson at the moment. Yeah, absolutely we do. There's nothing from the TV series. All of which have to be totally approved, of course. Yes, of course. But they have to be created by your own assets. Yeah, yeah. I mean, even with Aerosmith, with one of the first Spy 2 games, I mean all that artwork was generated in-house I mean the we do both we do both we use theirs, we generate our own we do both so going back to the European office when's it launching? well I mean the office will be my apartment at first we start small so when you move in so it's open 24-7 so right now we know that the Netherlands market is a tough market. I was talking to Jonathan about it and hopefully Jonathan can help me out a little bit. Next up is... I'll send you my external break out. I have to work with a real estate agent and the market is extremely competitive at this particular point. We're going month by month on it and I'm nevilly invested in trying to find something as soon as possible. I have a dog who's had pit bull and had great Pyrenees. So she's a little bit of an obstacle in finding a place. But once I locate a place, and, you know, sometimes it could take up to three months, you know, to lock in. And then I plan on moving over there. So this year? Absolutely. Hopefully that's the goal, you know. ASAP. Can we get narrative down to a season? To a season? I'd love to be there before June I mean that would be the goal what thing to? the summer it's better than the winter in my place I want to rent it out in Chicago I live in Logan Square which is a great neighborhood and I'd love to it's already appreciated a lot I'd love to rent it out and hold on to it and yeah I'm really looking forward to it stairs. Okay. Yeah. Well, best of luck with that. I look forward to welcoming you to Europe. I look forward to seeing the effects on the European pinball market and clubs. Thank you. Thank you so In closing, so I can obviously this is a challenge for you. It's also sort of an experiment for Stern. So has there been internal talks of how long of a period you're going to get to see how successful this can be? Or is there a point at some point that like this isn't going to work out let's stick to what we have right now and come back to the US? I think we're committed to three to five years and then we can assess where we're at. But guys, I'll be really honest with you and I'm a very humble person as you all know. I can't imagine not having a significant positive impact on this business, not just from a selling perspective, but from growing out the community and leveraging the things that we've done really well with things like Stern Army and, you know, establishing locations that support pinball, to really helping our distribution channel be more effective at taking care of the customers and giving them a customer experience that they deserve because they're spending a lot of money for this stuff. So I can, you know, I'll be the Babe Ruth and point to the defenses, but I can't imagine not having an impact on it. And I've done it pretty much throughout my career, and I think this is easy compared to the U.S. because it's been, I'm not going to say neglected, but the level of focus without having somebody actually with boots on the ground has never been here. So it's virtually just a barren piece of playing field that I can pretty much build with my team and with people like yourself and people that work with us and our distribution partners and our community. I mean, to me, it's just all upside. Great. Please keep us updated with your plans and your programs that you're rolling out. So we can engage with them. Is there a goal or an aim, like what you would like to target? Maybe not, but I'll give you a little perspective. When it was a commercial market and I did the selling here myself, we were 40% of our business was here. Right. Well, it's not 40% right now. Right. So, well, back in the Gottlieb days, I mean, Gottlieb sold. in the Gottlieb days when Gottlieb was big and then we're talking 60s, 70s well mostly then I think Gottlieb mostly existed thanks of Europe well that's because they were owned by the the Thessians right well actually by Mondau well Mondau which was who's the other Mondau help me God darn it. Not Volfessian? Huh? Not Volfessian? Well, Volfessian was actually, I think he's a son-in-law or something like that. It was... Oh, God. Oh, my God. The French guy. French. And they ended up owning Gothi. Oh, my God. I should know this, but... I'm blank right now, and I know it, but I'm blank right now. And it's a shame on me. oh god oh well the French guy no no no god damn it well Gopnik was very popular in France that is absolutely true but even for Belli, I mean Belli was very popular in Germany and the Netherlands as well so you're in different time frames on that slight detail that you just made there although we can kind of wrap this up I noticed from your new Spike 3 system and the cabinet builds, it would be a lot easier for you to now manufacture games, or at least assemble games in Europe. Is that something that you would consider doing? I mean, it's something that Bally did with Ballywolf. Is it something which Stern could do? It could have a European assembly part? Mr. Stern, I don't know why you asked that one. you never know but that's not something that we're planning right now ok right just the way your new cabinets are bolted together yes able to be flat packed yeah that way it has a lot of advantages for more than that one ok you'll hear the answer in our upcoming oh god next month's edition and Gary was hoping to get some sleep. He was going to take a nap after this interview, but now, for sure, he will be... He's waking up somebody now. This is right. He wants to be a millionaire. He has a friend. He has a safe voice now. It's going to be your final answer. Hey, sweetheart. Who was in France the head of Mondial back in the day Pescian was in Europe in America, right? who was oh no, it was Pescian it was Pescian, Sarkeesian was in America, Sarkeesian was the son-in-law and Sern Pescian was the French yeah, Sern Pescian you were right it was Pescian, Sern Pescian and he was he was in World War II he worked for the Germans and he ran a resistance cell at night he was a tough guy who did you wake up to to get this answer Frank Lou he's downstairs yeah okay thank you thank you sweetheart where are you I'm in bed you're in bed you're in bed he's got the power now but you guys have screwed me up oh sorry but I'm glad we got there in the end thank you very much anyway thank you Gary, thank you John and we look forward to all the new initiatives you're going to bring to the European market well next time we'll get together we will have another recipe for you and continue the it's your recipe next time we have new chicken, we can't have that again we actually have two even better well thank you Gary How he's cooking the steak and the potato. Oh, yeah. That's two microwaves and a general grill and all that. Our new chef is at it again. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, guys. Well, thanks to Gary and to John for taking all that time and as well as giving us their respective recipes. And it's always entertaining and informative to sit down with them at the AG Expo and we kind of have the time to have a proper conversation with them, which we don't often have at the other shows we go to, although even then we always push the amount of time that we're supposed to spend with them much further than we need to, and then by the time we've finished, the show's almost closed by the time we've finished. But anyway, I hope you enjoyed it And We'll move on with our Stern Pinball news Let's get to that code section that everybody loves Oh yeah, right Four games get code updates in January Star Wars for the Empire They'll need a pillow for that Get version 0.89 Get cooperative and team play modes added New Obi-Wan Force mission which we'll all be waiting for. Several new feature adjustments, some audio fixes, and a few rule changes. This is a strange one. James Bond 007 60th Anniversary also gets an update. Remember last month we mentioned about Star Wars, the Steve Ritchie game getting an update. That was for the topper that came out on the new Star Wars Fortress Empire game. Well, James Bond 007 60th Anniversary model, you know, the exclusive one. That got an update to version 1.1. Less than 500 units. Yeah, I don't know quite why that was deemed worthy of an update, but it got several updates, including the new service menu, the full graphic or user interface, rather than the dot matrix replicated on the screen. Fast setups for Wi-Fi and game registration, which is now standard on certain games. Some improved display graphics, that's about it really, not any obvious reason to update it, but hey, owners, all 500 of them, will be very happy with that. Dungeons & Dragons, Tyrant Eye, version 0.99, almost fully featured, that came out on the 29th as well, quite a lot of rule changes actually, quite greatly expanded how the Dragon multiball works, that's now a much more complex mode, and the associated sounds as well, they changed how you qualify Dragon Multiple and they added many more monster encounters while you're travelling increased the points value and added new controls to reset just one character's progress rather than everyone's progress which was something they originally had, you do all or nothing and now you can just play one character, you can reset that A few bug fixes and a few typos fixed as well. And the X-Men, the uncanny X-Men, version 0.97. That got a new Nimrod escape mode and a save Senator Kelly wizard mode at last. Then it also implemented the new service menu user interface and a new skill shot. Mike Vinikour named skill shot MXV. And new achievements and quite a few bug fixes as well in that game. That wraps up the code for Stone Piggle in January 2026. Not entirely because I do have a question about the Dungeons & Dragons Tyrants. Do you? Yeah, I do. Well, I'm not sure whether I was certainly done. Ask away anyway. Well, I do remember that Dragon Multiball was very easy, I mean there was two shots to the three target bank and then a right orbit and you're there. Has that been made more difficult? Well, it was originally simple then they changed it and made it much more difficult and decided that it was too difficult so then they made it easier again it is just a matter of shooting the target bank or to start light dragon multiball although the number of pre-lit letters on it is adjustable in the settings so you might have to spell out dragon by hitting it six times and that starts the first multiball once you've actually locked the ball but after that it gets a lot harder and also the value of it is a lot more complex you might start it but you may not get that many points out of it unless you go into it with various conditions already fulfilled. So I won't go into what they all are, mainly because I don't know what they are. But I didn't read it. Oh, well, thanks for the clarity. Okay, yes. So I think the basic answer is yes, it is quite simple to start still now. But it might be simple to start. You don't get a lot of points for it if you start it too soon. Right. Okay. So moving on. in Texas yeah they will have two of their Winchester Mystery House games at the upcoming Penball at the Feet show yes I am able to go fortunately being held at St Pete's in Florida in a couple of days time they also announced that they have 58 labyrinth machines left in stock I think that's quite a lot actually considering they cut production short I think on that so those are the last ones they're not going to make any more but of course there might be some distributors as well but those are the ones that are bound to fund having stock I don't know whether their stock level includes distributor stock in that count I'm guessing not as they can just count up how many they've got in the factory other than that they're busy building Winterton Mystery House games Right But still, interesting I mean, Labyrinth Is a very cool game Despite the theme There we go again Yeah And, well I understand There's a new code update Giving the game A new sound Yeah, absolutely Which makes it probably more interesting as well even more yeah it's created by Jeff Dodson who did all the music and sound for the Dune game and the Winchester Mystery House I mean he did all the music for the Dune game because it includes some of the movie music but he's the sound designer and composer for Winchester Mystery House and yes he's created an entire a sound package for Labyrinth, which I don't think anyone really saw coming. I'm very curious, because the original sound package is very... I was... Well, it's not a movie. It's very true to the movie. It should be that way. Yeah, but, well, it has this high, very relaxing melody when you start the game in the... the original mode that you start the game in. But I found it very appealing. So I'm very curious to find out what stayed and what has been improved. Yeah, all that has been added is they've added the Shaker Motor Support, which wasn't included originally, some new light shows, some bug fixes, and there's an update to the Barrel Ball rules, which is like Straw Ball for Battle of Fun Games, which allows you to set a number of players now, so the game will automatically end when a certain number of players are out, and they're just down to one and they'll be the winner. Plus there's more information and text on how to play it. Also, the game starts now with one red shot lit, so don't shoot the red shot is the basic rule for barrel ball. On the Labyrinth games. So, yes, all that stuff was introduced into Dune as part of its barrel ball mode and it's now being retrofitted into Labyrinth as part of this great new code update on the 30th of January. Interestingly, I couldn't realise this, but you have to load it through a USB stick because the Wi-Fi updating has been disabled for some reason. I think it was too unreliable. So you will need a memory stick in order to do this. Oh well So I guess that's all the news for Barrel for Fun for the month of January Yeah Let's move on to Spooky Pinball Yes obviously Beetlejuice a recently announced game and the first one the first of those games have rolled off the Dutch line and are now reaching buyers which is good news. Haven't heard any reports much about it, but I can report that they will have 10 Beetlejuice games set up at Pinball at the Beach this coming weekend. So I'm actually on with the chance of playing a game, a new game, at a pinball show. They've got ten of them. Wow. Yeah, that's exciting. But that should reduce the line, you think? Yeah. Well, I think the tickets are limited anyway, and there aren't seminars and things of such to distract people, so the games should be available for a lot longer, and people should be able to play them when they want. So I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. The other thing was, remember last month we mentioned about this new add-on for the Evil Dead game called the Dead Bar, which adds lighting under the back panel, or onto the back panel, I should say, in that area where it is quite dark. It's fully supported within the game software and was quite a cheap upgrade. In fact, it was so cheap that it sold out straight away and was immediately out of stock. Well, the good news, in a way, was that the Dead Bar was back in stock. at Spooky Pinball in mid-January, where they had 150 units available. The bad news is that they were sold out straight away, and it's now out of stock again. So, you didn't get one of those. Sounds like Spooky have another hit of this. Yes, well, yeah. I think everybody who's got an Evil Dead machine wants to get the Dead Bar add-on. So at least they know how many they will sell eventually, because it's limited by the number of machines that they sold, which was I think 888 wasn't it? Right. Well, if they come in batches of 150 it would take a while. I think the first batch was that size and they got 300 out of 888, yes. Yeah, and they probably want to adjust software for previous games where people want to install that dead bar as well. Not sure if it fits into earlier games. Well, maybe not at the moment anyway but it's possible well there's no code yet but who knows obviously you need to plug it into something as well I call it something else it can't be Dead Bar if it's not in Evil Dead I guess you could still call it Dead Bar because Evil Dead was the first game that it was introduced on but you could still use it in I don't know Looney Tunes, for example? Or Ultraman? Oh, fine. Not sure whether it is, but oh well. Okay. So, I don't think it will fit in total nuclear annihilation, but... It probably doesn't need it either. Okay. I think that's all the news we have from Spooky Pinball, so we should move on and we have a lot to get through. Right. So, Multimorphic sent out a new public update. They did. They said the Portal game kits, Portal being their current game still, are slipping at a very good pace, but unfortunately the complete machines with Portal pre-installed, they're lagging behind, because the full machines are taking longer than intended to produce. So, that would be true for any complete games, I guess, not just Portal. but portion game kits are available for these machines but the actual rest of the machine isn't so they are coming along but they're certainly not coming out as fast as the kits are so it's not a one to one comparison or production rate so if you bought the whole thing you might have a bit of a longer wait that's the upshot of that more anticipation yeah yeah it's forced anticipation in the meantime version 0.9 of the P3 software development kit has now been released and it's available for those who want to build their own games for the P3 and several people have done of course it includes specs for building playfield modules, you want to add a playfield module rather than use a pre-existing one, documentation for the code which is in there and how you interact with the various physical elements of the game. And also the various sizes for artwork on the game, you know, the cabinet sides, the decals, all that kind of stuff, the apron decals and the backbox. All that's there if you want to produce your own artwork for your game. And all this is available to download for free from the Multimorphic website. You just need to log in and register first and then log in. and you can download the P3 software development kit. Okay. Not sure how many people that actually are using, but it would be interesting to find out. Yeah, probably bring more people into the game development side, because we've already seen several people produce games for the P3, one of whom, of course, is Nicholas Baldridge. and we mentioned him last month in one of his well the first video in a P3 pinball service learning series where he was looking at how the P3's flippers work and how they differ to flippers he might be more familiar with from Harry Williams games for instance well he's got a new video out which looks at the rather unique ball trough that's installed in the P3 pinball platform, which holds 15 balls, is it? Something like that. Yeah, 13, something like that. But, of course, it doesn't sit at the bottom by the flippers, it's right up towards the top where the upper playfield module plugs in. So, unique in many ways, and has many different ways in which you can launch the ball, as it certainly is demonstrated very, very cleverly in the Portal game. So anyway, if you want to know how it works and how it differs from, well, how it differs from the standard ball trough, it hardly has any similarities. But then hello to Multimorphic's website and have a look at their P3 Pimple Service videos from Nick. And thanks to Nick for doing that. Of course, Nick is part of the Multimorphic team. They are working alongside them. as well as developing games of his own both ones which are currently available and more which we've spoken about before Steelbound being one that he's working on so and who knows who knows with the Texas Film Festival coming up maybe just maybe we might be able to make a visit to although we haven't asked yet it's possible we could make a detour and if we do then of course you get a full report of like on this very special pin count yeah the April edition the start of April looking back at March yes in our round up of the Texas Pimple Festival in March of course so maybe something to look forward to well for us of course we've been there before but it's always nice to pay a visit. Yeah, okay, so we better kind of get on with it, because we have more news, and this time from Jersey Jack Pimble. Yeah, this is very interesting, because I had not heard of this. Actually, I learned from this, I learned the following news, actually. Oh, first time for everything. Yes, okay. good. Well, Jersey Jack Kimball launched their new 3D game viewer for their Harry Potter Collector's Edition game. Basically, it's an interactive 3D model viewer that allows you to view the game from any angle, zoom in on any part of the playfield or cabinet, spin it around, explore key features, and also as you need to the mobile version, if you run it on your phone or tablet, using the camera that's built into that, you can put it into an alternative reality where it places a model or places the model of the Harry Potter game in your environment and then allows you to move the device around to see how it would look in your home, or in your game room, or in your line-up of existing machines. And you can still do all the moving in and rotating around the game but it's, rather than having it in a black background or a castle background, it's in your home. So that's a nice new feature. It's only available for the Harry Potter Collector's Edition at the moment, but certainly seems like it would be a very useful tool when they launch future games and want to help promote it by, rather than having to send out all these detailed pictures of the game, they could just do a model. Now, bear in mind it is only a model. It's not a real production game. is 3D rendering of it, real time rendering of it, so it doesn't include all the aspects of it that are actually in the game, if you zoom in you'll see there are no switches in it, there are no wires for any of the lights or anything like that, but it gives you a very good impression and you can certainly see all the inserts and the artwork and how the various mechanisms in the game operate, because it has like a track mode lighting going on and all the mechanisms trigger in sequence. So like the staircase spins around, the clippers flip, the pop bumpers bump, and the car in the tree wobbles and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's a very impressive feat and it seems to work very well on every device I've tried it on. It doesn't seem to be particularly demanding on the graphical rendering capabilities. I suppose these days we're kind of used to that, aren't we, with modern phones and tablets. It works fine on desktop as well, and works on iPhones, works on Androids. Yeah. It's a very impressive little piece of work, and congratulations to whoever at the Jersey Jack pinball team put that all together. Right. Okay. Yeah, very interesting. apparently you received a press kit, I didn't so I'll be reaching out to see why I was excluded hmm, that's very odd yes, I'm sure you normally would but it didn't come from anyone I was familiar with at the company so I guess they had a promotional company doing it, or maybe a distribution list I've had this in the past, names get dropped off the list, I've been dropped off Stearns in the past and didn't get sent out press releases for games, but a few words in the right ear and we'll get settled and sorted out. Right. Okay. Then, well, I suppose that... I think that does, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to think whether any Jersey Jack design member teams or members are attending symbol I'll speak with you I'm sure right okay and maybe Eric Meunier oh well have fun you'll be there I won't yeah I'll send your apologies yeah I'll be sending them myself anyway moving on to well why not Dutch yes why not yes what's the news there well probably because well there is no okay that will take longer yeah so no there was a brief that we or they actually as Pinball Magazine as well might be facing another 10% tariff increase because of the whole Greenland situation military impact and what have you but thankfully it took another Dutch person to get the situation neutralized, so to speak, and those announced tariff increases for Europe have been lifted again. Who is this Dutch? Well, could you... It's Mark Rutte, who runs NATO. Yes. now. And apparently he's, according to President Trump, a close friend. So, well, thankfully, that saves American buyers a lot of money when it comes to buying European games. And saves more grief for Dutch pinball and pinball brothers and Padretti and all those who try to sell their games into the US market and having to deal with what, having to work out what to do about increased tariffs again. We thought we'd waved all that goodbye. But, you know, here we are. Speaking of Pinball Brothers, though, yeah, you see, that's a nice segue. I've been working on this all month. Yeah, I believe that. Yes, Predators of Sales, the current game from Pinball Brothers, the latest game, I should say, is definitely, sales are definitely ending on the 31st of March, 2036, they say. Definitely. Yes. Definitely. I thought they said they were definitely ending at the 31st of December. Yes, that's right. I thought that definitely. Maybe this is the sell-off period, where they have three months to sell off. That means that, I'm not sure if that means that distributors which can't sell them, or... No, probably not. It probably means that they have a sell-off period of four months, so they would not be allowed to manufacture them in 2026. But Primo Brothers themselves have a sell-off period the way I read it, of three months. So all the games that they have in stock are still allowed to be sold either to individuals who buy them directly, if possible, or distributors who buy them from Pinball Brothers. After that, I think a distributor can sell the game whenever he wants. Right, because most of their sales will be through distributors. I assume that even Pinball Brothers USA is treated as a distributor in that regard. So they could send plenty of machines over to them and sell them through that outlet forever. And they don't sell directly to the European market, I don't think, either. if you go to buy a game on the Pimple Brothers website it takes you to freepay.se yeah which is still a company owned by Daniel Anderson it's not Pimple Brothers so it's a distributor so they should be able to sell them so I'm not sure exactly who's not going to be able to sell them after the 31st of March but for contractual purposes processor sales are definitely ending the 31st of March 2026 don't worry yeah yeah okay right and in the meantime they've been doing lots of promotions of Predator on their social medias lots of customer appreciation videos as well they've been sharing the impression you're certainly getting is that Predator's a not a sleeper as such but maybe underappreciated is actually what a fun game it is right we'll see I haven't played the latest version of the code So I don't know quite how You haven't played it at all Hopefully I wish we could Look forward to it I'm not sure whether I'll be running Into the game this month I'll tell you all about it Right Okay so that's enough of Pimble Brothers This month Yeah well from Pimble Brothers Just a small leap to Italy, where we have Pedretti Gaming collaborating with Pimble Brothers in Euro Pimble Corp. So, a little related. Or actually, well, very involved. Interestingly, last month we reported that Pedretti started a collaboration with Sam's Air. Our Therios. Yeah, Sam's Air, our Therio games. Sam Zier, who we mentioned last month, former Capcom programmer and such. Pedretti now, well, this month, they started introducing new team members as if they were employees of Pedretti, sort of. And Sam Zier was the first to be introduced, followed by Jay Powell, who is a co-founder of Arterio Games, together with Sam Zierer. And they also introduced Frank, who turns out to be Frank Gigliotti, which is an Italian last name, and he has Italian roots, who we know as a programmer for Riot Pinball, who you may know from their Legend of Valhalla game that they licensed to American Pinball and before that The Wrath of Olympus which was a white body homebrew game very impressive one a very good one too but too expensive to take into commercial production sadly because it wasn't really a cool game and Frank has also worked in a distant past, so to speak, for Data East, and later on Stern Pinball, where he has done animation, dot matrix animations, I should say, for Tommy Transformers and Avatar. And obviously yeah, after that Riot Pinball, of course, and now he's a part of or team member of Petrecci where he will be programming as well. On the upcoming game. There's no point in having him build cabinet. Yeah, they're in the way to do that already. Yeah. So, and interestingly, well, we talked about American Pinball licensing seven Bally Williams titles for upcoming reimaginations of these titles. Obviously, as we already mentioned, Pedretti Gaming and also Chicago Gaming are also doing remakes of Bally Williams games. In the case of Pedretti, we're talking about Whirlwind with an update kit and Funhouse 2.0 as a full game, although it started as a kit, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, that's right. It was Rudy's Revenge, or Rudy's Nightmare, sorry. Yeah. Yes. So, you might wonder, how does that work? And I'm not sure whether I mentioned it, but I did reach out on Facebook to Planetary Pimble, who is the licensor of course of Belly Williams. games, they control that catalog, so to speak. And I asked about whether the agreement with American Pinball would be an inclusive one, or if it's affecting the relation that they have with Chicago Gaming and Patrici. And in a response, Planetary indicated that they well it turns out that the agreement with American Pimble is non-exclusive and they will continue working with Pedretti and Chicago agreement so so they're all working on a non-exclusive basis but they will have certain exclusivity when it comes to specific titles as the way it is. Yes, it makes no sense. Multiple companies working on the same title. No. So it does mean that obviously, like you mentioned earlier, about 50% of the Bally Williams titles were licensed intellectual property based on either a movie or a character or a comic book or what have you. and the other remaining games were sort of original titles I think Tear of Magic or Whitewater not related to a movie or anything else these will, seems to me, will be the titles that are most interesting to remake in the sense that it doesn't require that many licensing efforts in the sense that you don't have to talk to a movie studio or actors that have been involved and may no longer be alive or something like that so you have to talk with an estate and they might have a different point of view and yadda yadda yadda Yes, you actually reminded me I went to American Pinball and obviously back in the time when Dennis Nordman was working there and got the chance to see I was there as well and you got a chance to see what he was working on which was a effectively a follow up to Whitewater so that would be a reimagining I guess of Whitewater, it could be Whitewater 2 no, no, that would be a different game it could use the same title Whitewater 2 I mean that wasn't the title that he had for it but no, it could be marketed in that way. Right. But then you would just have to license the title Whitewater, the name Whitewater. Well, you could say it's been reimagined into this game. Right. Maybe that's what some of the reimagining is going to be. Actually reimagining the playfield. I would think that I would probably think that the playfield would more or less stay the same. But you never know. It could be a mix, couldn't it? Some could just re-imagine the software and add an LCD and RGB lighting throughout, and others could be totally re-imagined. Anyway, we're speculating. Well, if we're speculating on that subject, and this is speculation mode on, Let's say American Pinball, while we're talking about progression, but let's say American Pinball is aiming to reimagine Whitewater. If they would do that, and it would be one of their first games, then it would make sense to ask Dennis Nordman to finish the Whitewater 2 game. Because all the customers that you just saw the Whitewater game to are now also in the market for the sequel, so to speak. Yeah, that's right. So, here's some free marketing advice to Brian Vincent. Although I don't think he needs it. But it might be interesting to, or worthwhile to see if you can get Dennis Morton back. Definitely, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Speculation mode off. Thank you. Let's get on. Well, we can do that because the next few companies don't want any news for anyway. Turner Pinball, also in Texas, we were talking about earlier. No news from them. They're just making and streaming Merlin's arcade game. You can watch a live stream of it every Wednesday night through their Facebook page. no news about any subsequent titles coming up although with Texas Pinball Festival only what what is it six, seven weeks away yeah oh wow you might be finding a new game yeah fast, not that fast ok we mentioned Chicago Gaming earlier We've just dropped in the fact that we've got absolutely no news from them at all this month. Lots of rumours about what they might be working on. A few hints and tips given in various places. A few Easter eggs if you look carefully. But no actual announcements from them. And this was after last month where they were taking orders into 26Q3 and maybe even Q4. I can't quite remember exactly how long ago. let me have a little look talking about MMR Medieval Magus remakes and RGB kits and Merlin editions as well coming in Q2 this year but no more news since then yeah but oh well We'll just have to wait and see Last year they were at The Texas show So who knows what they might be bringing this year If they are going anyway We do have some news from Wonderland Amusements Remember them They're producing the 80% size version of Alice Goes to Wonderland And They are like talking about Multimorphic earlier. They are experiencing some delays in production of their games. But they do say containers were picked up earlier this week. This was this week. Or in fact, probably last week now. And are now staged at the port waiting departure in a few days. They will be sent to distribution centres across the US. they say they wish this had happened months ago, I bet they did but they're relieved to finally say machines are on their way to the US because they're US only purchases you might remember the first container is estimated to arrive February the 11th so over a week's time with the second one 12 days later on the 23rd Is there any coincidence that the 11th of February happens to be this current media day for... I don't think so. I don't think that's going to interrupt Stern's plans. They say once the containers land they need one to two weeks to get cleared, unpacked, labelled and handed off to local delivery couriers. So maybe by the first batch maybe by the end of the month those will be arriving at people's homes. No idea how many are in. the first container, I have to say. But they're relatively small boxes, the way they pack them, so there should be quite a few. Yeah. So if you were in on that Kickstarter, and these are the first games to go, then you should be getting your machines this month. So in which case, good luck. Well... Well... Transport inside the US also takes time, so it might be March. Well, by then, there might be some more tariffs to pay, you never know. But, yeah. Wow. Anyway, enough of that. Yes, that's the news from Wonderland Amusements in January. Right, okay. So, then, heading back to Europe, Hexapinball in France have announced the shows that they will be attending in, well, this year, basically, 2026, which will be Pinball at the Beach, the Texas Pinball Festival where we expect to see the premiere of the three must-see their announced upcoming title they will be at the German Pinball Expo, the Austrian Pinball Festival where you will be going as well and I already have a DJ booking that weekend so I won't UK Pinfest in August, which I, well, would be nice to go again. Pimble Expo Festival Retro Play in France it is, and the Dutch Pimble Open Expo. Surprise to my surprise, but I'm not sure whether I read it correctly, but there's only one French show in there. Yeah. So far. They used to attend more shows. Yeah, those are the ones that I confirmed so far. Maybe the dates for some of the other shows haven't been announced just yet. They'll probably be at some others. I think they'd be at the Treple for one, wouldn't you? Unless it coincides with another date. But, yeah, they're going to six of the same shows that I'm going to, which makes me wonder whether they're stalking me. Oh! They want your attention. Yes, okay, I'll get the hint, guys. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, so the first show will still be Space Hunt, and then after that I guess it will be Three Musketeers all the way. Well, yeah. Or both. Or that Renault game. Yeah, which is Space Hunt. Pringles. Yes, that's right. Yeah, less attractive. I haven't seen any... Yeah, there's also a Louis Vuitton person. Is there? Oh. I bet that's pretty smart. Yeah. I have to get pictures of that. Yeah. With the leather what I understood nine cabinets. So it has yes. So it has that Louis Vuitton that typical Louis Vuitton look. Okay. Well they're making good use as an aerospace hunt game. Right, moving on then. We have a whole bunch of companies where there is basically no news. Absolutely no news. So, and we're going to make it very quick. So, Vector Bimble in Australia. Nothing. Home Bean in Taiwan. Zilch. Bimble Adventures in Canada. I'm not even sure why we still listen. Well, for old time's sake. sentimental, actually. Okay. So, Rams Pimble in the USA. It's already there. No news, but they might be last seen at Pimble at the beach last year. So, who knows what happens next? Well, not mentioned in any of the pre-show publicity up until now. They're not listed as a vendor. So, I don't know. But, they were always open to surprises. Yeah. Okay. So, Bectronic in Spain also Nien Although Cardona Pinball Cardona Pinball In the US, no news either Any new remakes Or upgrade kits or whatever you want to Call them SDR Pinball In Spain, nothing They are supposed to be Working on a game that has been announced Three years ago and since then It's been completely quiet Quetzalpimbo in Spain I know they are working on it But I can't talk about it And then there is Other news because we still have An interview for you Yeah And we are already running late It's just like talking to Gary Stern And John Scalier again So on to the other news Classic Playfield Reproductions Have announced the retirement of one of their Co-founders along with that they're having a move to smaller premises and how holding a back to the basement type sale of surplus stock and so it's now running through their website at classicplayfields.com but to find out more about this all and what what it's all about uh let's speak to the other co-founder and the new president of the company that's kevin wade oh thanks for having me fellas Okay, well, as we've spoken about before, there's a few changes taking place at Classic Playfield Reproductions. First of all, the co-founder of the company, Mike Purcell, who is, as I understand, also an Air Canada pilot in his full-time job, is retiring from that role and also retiring from Classic Playfield Reproductions as the president. so he and Kevin were the two founders of it back in 2005 I think that's right isn't it Kevin? Correct Yeah, yes Okay, and all that time you've been based up in Halifax in Nova Scotia is that where you were both from originally or did you have to move from there or was that just part of the Halifax pinball scene? No, this is where we always lived So we just started basically in our basements and backyards at the time. Okay. And so what kind of got you into doing reproductions of playfields initially and then other products later? Well, it was kind of the initial demand, I guess. The hobby was sort of bereft of any reproduction playfield making. I know Illinois pinball team Cunningham dipped his toe into it a bit and ran some what, Kiss playfields way back in 2002 or 2003 from some of the original films that he had, and they were silkscreened. I could be wrong. It might have been Adam's family even as well. Yes, I remember those. So much time has passed. My memory gets foggy, but that was kind of the only playfields that people saw, and they were so amazing to have at the time because there just weren't any alternatives unless people could find NOS to swap into their games to replace their worn playfields. So there was just kind of a need there that Mike saw, and he dipped his toe into it, like you said in your article with Greg Walker, and made Halifax Pinball, and again, sort of a basement operation, working in their sheds and garages and basements, and did that initial run with Gene Cunningham's help for that initial Fathom playfield run. and then when that was completed and kind of dusted off and everything was shipped Mike sort of restarted with me and then we went after Gene to do Centaur and then we kind of just went from there that was 2005 Yeah, it's very hard for some people I think to imagine how pimple seeing was back then because getting reproduction of any artwork product was virtually unheard of and it was very very difficult and a real specialist skill, I think. And it still is, of course, but these days there are a lot more people producing reproduction playfields. And so back then, when a new project was launched, there was a huge rush for demand on those, wasn't there? So when you announced that you were going to produce a playfield and it was now available, the orders would come flooding in. Is that data worth it? Yeah, it was worth the work at the time. You could count on 100, 200, maybe even 300 customers or orders to justify cutting and gluing and printing and silkscreening all those boards and putting them through clear coat. When it was such a small operation and it would take months and, you know, I think our first year of which is Centaur, it took the whole year to get those 300 made or so for Gene at the time. Yeah. But what's changed then in the interim that's resulted in you scaling back and a number of sales decreasing, as you described in the article? Yeah, if we suddenly fast forward from 2005 to today, if you span all those years, there's been a notable fulfillment, I guess, of all the titles. like all of the people that wanted or needed a swap and bought a reproduction playfield are pretty much served. Because as every game gets dealt with and a swap is performed and a restoration is completed, that game is now off the table. You know, so, like I said, rinse and repeat that across 21 years. And all of those initial titles that we started with back in 05 and then 07, 2010, like all through the years, there's barely anyone coming back to the trough for those titles anymore. So you might sell, you know, in the last few years, the titles that have been around so long might only sell three to five a year. and then you get into just the hobby changing a bit with more of a younger crowd and all us old farts kind of going off and um our collections have been around a long time um the new blood coming into the hobby those that are in their 20s and 30s and even early 40s that are getting into pinball now they're being dazzled by you know the new in box you know all the the wonderful manufacturers that have sprung up over the last decade making wonderful games. And reproduction, the old stuff, is kind of taking a back seat to that. I think it's just a natural direction of the hobby. And therefore, even when we release a brand new play field, like, say, last year in 2025, you had quoted me in the article as saying, and it's true, that we can have a debut play field that's never been reproduced in the hobby ever, and we'll launch it, we'll have 20 pieces on hand, And then at launch in that first month, it'll sell six, and then it'll go dead quiet. That's kind of the trend now. It's just so different from years ago. It just doesn't have the oomph that it used to have. So we've really got to play our cards close to our chest for run lengths and planning and just see where the chips fall when we release something. Is part of that because you've kind of done all the A-list titles now, and then you're moving into B and C list titles, which people are less keen to spend money to fully restore back to, you know, pristine conditions. Yes. That's a smart observation. Yes, there's that element as well because, you know, all the low-hanging fruit was kind of dealt with 5, 10, 15 years ago because those were the higher priority titles to get completed. And the stuff that's coming out now is sort of, yeah, I wouldn't call it the scraps, but, you know, C and D titles. So there isn't even going to be an expectation there based on demand or popularity of the machine for needing to buy them either. So you kind of have a double-edged whammy there. Well, it sort of makes sense. I mean, with all due respect, there's probably not much demand for a hard-body play field. First of all, because the game isn't that popular But as a result of the game not being popular They weren't played that much So the original playfields are also still in quite reasonable condition Compared to games that have been played so much That they've been completely worn out Correct So it works from both ways Absolutely true One of the things which we notice over the years of course and it's throughout the hobby, is the rise in prices and the rise in price of commodities as well. So things like wood and inks and, of course, staff as well. Now, at the peak of your production, you said you were employing 12 people at CPR, 12 full-time people and a couple of part-time people as well. And there were some floaters. Yeah. Now, you're having to scale back your operation and cut the number of staff. So has that already happened, and how did that process take place? Yes, that's already happened from September through till now. It was actually quite early. I think we were all dusted up with the layoffs probably by the end of November, and we were in the direction where we were preparing for where we're headed now. So it was unfortunate. You never want to let family go, and everyone within the building was kind of family in a way. It wasn't a normal workplace. It was cool, right? It was everyone had their hearts in it and really enjoyed the whole surroundings and the stuff that we're making, right? So it was a cool shop to work at. And not everyone on staff, probably 75% of the people, weren't even pinball people who ever owned a machine or even played one in their life. I mean, they got used to it, you know, at some of our staff parties that we held either, you know, at my place or at a pinball arcade downtown or Mike's place. They got used to what pinball machines were, but they were hired on for their skill set of what function they were going to be doing. And it's a lot of, you know, making playfields and making all of this stuff is a lot of grunt work. And, you know, it's not always elegant or spectacular. But, you know, when you have to stand at a table and glue inserts for eight hours a day, it just becomes purely that function, right? So of the staff we had to let go and pair things back, it was all of the extra staff, like you said, for the expansion that we did. that we started in 2023 to try or dip our toe into doing contract or bulk or wholesale manufacturing of playfields, whatever you want to call it, for the pinball factories that make games, like Barrels of Fun and Pinball Brothers of Pedretti Pinball over in Italy. That's where we dipped our toe in to see if we could maybe get on board with the new direction of the hobby, which is new games. So that was the difference there that we tried that experiment. of course we've been talking mainly about Playfield, but of course, um, you, your product range is much more than that. Now you may start off as a classic Playfield reproductions, but of course now you're doing, um, black glasses, plastic sets, uh, and then you expand into a range of other products as well. Um, yes. How much of your business now is, is Playfield and how much of it is, well, yeah, how much of it is Playfield and how much of it is, is other products? Well, I mean, playfields are the backbone of the place, let's be honest. That's the whole thing that drives it. Glasses and plastics are kind of like needed accessories to kind of go along with it, because if you're going to get a playfield and, you know, that usually means that a swap is going to happen. There's a restoration happening there of a game. And if there's a shedding back glass and there's old yellowed or cracked plastics, you're not going to reuse those when you swap your playfield. Usually, 95% of the time, there's a vision of the customer who's going to buy the playfield for a swap. There's a game restoration in play. And having the glasses and plastics to go along with it to match is almost a given. So they're usually buying them at what we call trilogies. So they buy the playfield plastic set and back glasses like a group, and that ships to them as a whole kit in their order. And that's pretty much how it's gone down. That's why it's been important to have glasses and plastic sets alongside of everything as well. But the playfields are what are propping up the business. If we just went glasses and plastics, we'd be out of business. Okay. It just seems to me that the glasses that you produce, they are things which anybody can replace very easily. You take out the old one, put the new one in. It could be a nicely mirrored one, for instance, or it could just be a much better quality one with less flaking and damage than an existing one. And that's a five-minute swap, whereas doing a full playfield swap can be a significant investment in time and effort. So I was browsing your site earlier, and we'll come back to that in a few minutes, about what people can find on there if they haven't already visited. And I was looking at the glasses, and I'm going, oh, that's a really nice one. I could get a mirrored glass for my game, and that would be a really simple thing for me to change. Actually, the play field is probably fine, but it's an upgrade to me, and the plastics as well could be as well. But it is interesting to see that the play field is still the bread and butter of your business. So, yeah, it is the bread and butter. You are correct about the plastics and glasses being quick grabs. Like don get me wrong there are orders or customers that just order a glass and you know they want you know say they own Adam family and they been looking at their Translite all these years and they think well it would be a nice upgrade to go to a real tempered back glass with mirror added to it and kind of pimp their machine up. And it is an easy install. Once it comes out of the box, they can put their trim on it and then just lift the old Translite out of the backbox, put the back glass in, boom, you're done in 60 seconds, and it's that little enhancement you've added to your game. So, yeah, there are individual orders for just plastic sets because, again, you slide out your glass, unscrew all the posts, and put your new plastic set on, and then slide the glass back in. No playfield swapping, wiring looms, mechanicals involved. So they are quick swaps. You're correct. You mentioned in 2023 you started to do contract manufacturing for other companies. that you already mentioned, was that a point where you all already had experience of the slide in demand, the tapering off of demand for playfields and looking for ways to broaden the business and keep the volume, well, increase the volume properly, even if it meant swimmer margins? yeah it was kind of to test a second revenue stream of sorts i guess um yeah the the writing was kind of already on the wall back then of the direction because we can look at our stats just just the website itself can spit out you know statistics of of what each year produces or sorry i guess produces or collects for for sales off the website and then um you could see well x amount of playfields in 2020, X amount in 2021, 2022, 2023. And you could see the number, you know, dropping, even though we were doing new releases and adding to the mix. And like I described previously, those weren't attracting the attention that previous runs did. So it was kind of like this slow crawl of diminishing returns of attention and sales and so on. So we, you know, we had to make some decisions. And then Mike and I decided, you know, we were approached, you know, would you be interested in making playfields for our factory? Of course, the first one was barrels of fun. And we seriously considered it, and obviously we went for it, and decided to expand and invest in all new lines of equipment, adding, you know, five, six, seven more staff to run that line. And we kind of considered it parallel or separate from the reproduction line. And then all of that equipment and those people could run separate and not disturb the reproduction business and just run it that way, kind of parallel to each other in the building. So that's how we did it at the time. And that's where we went with it. Right. Without wishing to get too much into the business and contractual aspects of it, Why did that stop? Why are you not making those anymore? Well, we ended up, once we were finished, say, for example, with Barrels of Fun and the Labyrinth Project, they went onward, and they've got their own, I can't give too much details of Dave and Dan S.'s plans, but he has some directional plans within his own building and factory that we just, I'll just say, we just weren't needed anymore. And then we've hung in there, like Pinball Brothers over in Italy, We went through the, I guess, the Funhaus remake, the Rudy 2.0, whatever it was called, and we're making those two versions. There was the modern artwork and the classic artwork, and we supplied them with all those, and we've hung in there with them. They're still kind of ongoing because they've got projects now. Obviously, Predator is in play, and they've got some future plans that we'll – and we're going to – we don't need, with where we're headed and with the shrinkage of the company, we're going to kind of keep riding with them but again it's tapering off so to speak um these aren't as demanding to produce or whatever and and that kind of went with it so we're going to basically back ourselves into a an amount of base equipment and and setup especially after the move that will be enough for um kind of tapering that off and sticking with uh with with bringing those runs or contracts to an end, and then producing all of the reproduction stuff and reruns and little rebadges that we need into the future. So we're slimming it all down. Okay. You mentioned the move. You're currently in a sort of factory unit then. And where are you moving to? well we're in like sort of a your typical uh business park commercial unit um in the halifax uh business park and and we're moving to a a building of our own basically um that will um it'll be smaller but we won't have a landlord we're going to kind of structure where we have i guess it's the next logical step for the for business after 21 years where you kind of own your own building. And we're going to kind of make that step an investment. So we'll be shrunken down, but we'll also kind of be paying for it all up front and I guess kind of kiss rent goodbye, which is nice. And we'll kind of use it for the next many years. I'm hoping that under my purview, we'll be going another three, five, seven, ten years. We'll see. I've got my retirement, in my plans for my future, of course, but that's sort of the new direction that we'll be going where we'll be, I guess, like I said, a logical step into our own building. So that's the plan. Right. Okay. Now, you've been as Classic Playfields Reproductions in business since 2005. You're scaling down. I'm curious from the top of your head can you name some of your best sellers that you were that people might not even be aware that is available playfields for game X or Y or Z that you were like well that was absolutely a playfield that we made so many of basically basically the question, what are your best covers? Well, the first one is an easy answer. No, no, that's a great question. It's an easy answer. It's Centaur. Centaur has been an ongoing, I wouldn't want to call it a joke, but almost a meme within the business since 2005 and starting with it with Gene. We have rerun that damn thing so many times that I think the last count, and Mike and I chuckle about this all the time, we probably over the last 21 years have made rerun and sold upwards of 3,000 Centaur playfields. Which, when you look at the population of the game, now I'd have to go on the internet pinball database and check. I don't know. Can you check for me? How many games were produced? Because then you have to balance that number with how many are surviving today, because many got destroyed and were thrown out by operators. So I guess speaking about a surviving population of that game, we just found that number to be ridiculous. And we don't know where they all went, if they're hanging on walls or stuck in people's closets, but we just thought that was outrageous. That was the highest demand playthrough we ever did, hands down. Yeah, that's like three times the next best, which would be Adam's family. Right. I am close. I know Centaur up in the meantime So there's Centaur and Centaur 2 But the playfields are identical of course There's a 3700 production run Of the first Centaur And 1550 of Centaur 2 Right, is that crazy? So small That's why it boggled us Right That's amazing That's a very high percentage indeed Yeah, so across all the years that you've been making that, has the technology for making these playfields remained the same? The last run of Centaur playfields that you made, were they Marc Silk-screened in the same way that the first set of Centaur playfields would have been? They were. Centaur we've stuck with Marc Silk-screening to the present day because it's a three-color playfield, and we don't have to get into 10, 12, 16-color layouts. like most of the other playfields would require and did back in the silkscreen days. If you just think about it from a practical standpoint, if you think about old-school silkscreening, every color went down one at a time and stacked on top of the next. So it's like a deck of cards stacking up. So you start with a blank white wood. White goes down first as the white layer. Then your next darker color goes down, which we'll say is yellow. And then the next darker color, say orange. and you just keep going, going, going until you have a stack of all your primary spot colors, which we'll say is 10, and then the 11th color is the black line or the key line that sits on top and seals it all together like a comic book. When you're doing runs of Marc Silk screening, you're doing 100 plus all on racks, sitting next to a wet running press, and you're feeding them one at a time through. Then they have to dry. We used to have oven drying at one point, but we ended up finding that the heat was stressful on the wood. We started air drying. So that meant with eight hours of the enamel sitting out in open air, you could do one color a day. So if you had a 10-color play field, that's two weeks to print them all, Monday to Friday, Monday to Friday. So there's your 10 days, 10 colors go down, and then you have your batch of playfields. So it took over the shop. Marc Silk screening was very demanding, but most of it was ink drying time. They're just sitting around. and that's how we ended up going digital so you could go one at a time, full color, multi-layer, all coming off the press in one shot. And Centaur we kept as silkscreen because you're done in three days. On a slightly nerdy point, those silkscreens don't last forever. Did you have to make more silkscreens or would those originals last for the full 3,000 that you've made? No, we make them fresh every time. I noticed Gene Cunningham back in the day. I don't know why I remember this, but I remember pictures. I think it's when we went down and visited him in 2005 to see his facilities, make the handshake deal and fly home with the Centaur films on the plane. I remember he had screens leaning against a wall for it might have been the Kiss playfield it might have been Adam's family I forget but they were cleaned screens that came from the print shop that he used and he took the screens back from them and I guess they were just sitting poised and ready and cleaned and ready for another run someday but he kept the screens now if you're a Marc Silk screener you know that's not what you do with your screens you don't make a screen and shelve it. I mean, I guess unless you're going to use it over and over and over again, and that's in your future. But screens are recoverable, and what you do is you strip them back to their original clean mesh, and then you can recoat them and open new images in them at any time. So we have dozens, probably, well, there's different sizes of frames, but we probably have a hundred screen frames of all different sizes in sets, and there's a playfield size, and a back glass size and a plastic set size. And sometimes we have multiple sets of each, and you try to have enough to do up to 15 colors in each set. So all these, they look like big drum heads, a big aluminum hard solid frame with a really tightly stretched silkscreen mesh on it. That's why they call them silkscreens because it's almost like a hard Marc Silk. And you coat them in open images under them. You bake images onto them with a high-intensity UV bulb, and you expose them, you go rinse them, and then all of the openings fall out. It's a really old-school process, but it's recoverable. You keep using your frames over and over again. So every time we went to silkscreen a playfield, it was always freshly opened frames, every single time. And, of course, the technology has changed, as I was saying earlier, but now nearly all your work, I think nearly all of it, is digitally printed. are you now able to produce equally vivid and dense colors using digital printing as you used to be able to do with screens yeah we fought the digital kind of concept till our last breath and i was most of that was my fault because i was a stickler for it i i wouldn't i had my fingernails dug into Marc Silk screening right to the bitter end because I was a purist. Until we ended up, we kind of had to really start going out and looking at some of this equipment and, you know, dealing with dealers and salespeople for this gear of all the different brands and so on, getting samples done. I really had to wrap my head around making them do some real good samples for me and see what the tech could do. So by the time we were doing this shopping, I guess, to consider digital and me fighting it all the way. In 2018-ish, 2017-2018-ish, it ended up, it finally impressed me, and I had kind of this light bulb moment where, if it can emulate spot colors this good, I think we can take the plunge. So, we did, obviously, but it's done well. The tech can really emulate solid like bucket hand-mixed ink for Marc Silk screening, except in a few different tones. Flesh tone is usually a sore spot. If you look at flesh tone on a digital print really closely to get that tone, it's a mix of, you know, a six-color process on our press. It's a mix of tiny little flecks or dots that you can kind of see up close. and there's other colors that show that, but most of them don't, and it looks as solid as a hand-mixed ink, and that's great. The only thing where Marc Silk screening really holds on, and it does still to this day, is the fluorescence. The fluorescence you cannot do in digital. There's just no way around it. So fluorescent green, fluorescent pink, sometimes people call them day glow or hot pink or hot green. Those colors have to come out of a true Marc Silk screen ink. so we end up having to create a process to, if those reproduction playfields use those colors, we have to do kind of a hybrid process where the playfields have to make a trip. They get some layers on the digital. They have to make a trip to the silkscreen press to get one or two hot colors put down, the fluorescents. Then they go back to the digital to finish everything up on top, and then you've got all your layers done with the fluorescents tucked right in the middle. Right, thanks for explaining the process I think that's interesting Now, as I said, you expanded the product range as well beyond Playfields and you ended up doing some other things such as toppers and additional plastic sets and I can't think what else you had there but now with these Scaling back of the scope of the business, you're just concentrating on the key playfields, backglasses, and plastic sets. Is that right? Yeah, we're kind of going back to our roots. Look, we've tried to dabble in all sorts of little things to introduce things to the hobby to see how they go. I can go way back to, this is almost a joke, but we had a thing that I tried. It was my brainchild. I'll take full responsibility for it. But back in the early days, and it was initialized by when we made the Black Knight playfields, we shipped them in boxes together where you had the lower playfield and the upper playfield. And they didn't, like, tuck into each other, so you had to have, like, them double-stacked on top of each other. So in order for them not to rub, we decided, well, the smaller upper playfield needed to be wrapped in something that's protective to put it inside the playfield box, our normal shipping box. So how do we do that? Well, we came up with the idea of slipping the upper playfield into a nice, soft, true cotton T-shirt, and we decided to make a run of CPR or Black Knight T-shirts at the time to commemorate the run, sort of a little bonus gift. So everyone who bought a Black Knight playfield got a T-shirt in their box with their upper playfield in it. So after that, this is just the initial story that planted the seed in my brain, we got into T-shirts for a little bit to go with some of the playfields. When we did Xenon next, we did a little run of CPR Xenon T-shirts just for fun and slipped them into boxes as a little bonus item. But then I came up with this little brainchild of, we ended up calling it CPR Fashions, which was a clothing line of Marc Silk screen T-shirts of just pinball stuff. and we tried a few initial designs. I think we started with three, four, maybe five garments. They had pop bumpers on them, just general pinball T-shirts, and we offered them up on our website. Well, let me tell you, after buying, we had our own in-house T-shirts, Marc Silk screen carousels, garment dryers, like ink dryers and all that stuff. It crashed. It burned. It never went anywhere. We might have sold a dozen shirts in total. and uh so i mean that's that's kind of just a side story of just dipping our toe into trying like little side things just to see what might stick and going fast forward when we got into um trying these toppers from our cpr art director introduced us with a whole line of toppers that he came up with speaker skins and we were adding those through the the latter years here in the last, what, seven to ten years and trying those, they did okay. I mean, they weren't barn burners. You know, every month there'd be a handful of smattered across each going out the door and slipped into orders and stuff. They were good little side products to have. But with us looking at the move and limited space in the new site, some of the equipment and stuff that goes with that and, of course, stacking and stockpiling the materials for it and keeping it on hand. so when orders come in, they're ready to go and make. We're just going to let all those go so we don't keep supply of those anymore. And again, we're just going to go back to our roots, I guess, of the trilogies, the playfields, back glasses, and plastic sets, and just let kind of the blow and the fluff go. And we really won't miss it. They did okay, like I said, but it was maybe a half a percent of revenue per month. if you get what I'm saying. I mean, there are lots of other companies doing the same kind of job, producing toppers. Oh, lots of knickknacks. Whereas playfields and backglasses and even plastic sets to a degree are probably more specialised and rely on tighter quality control of the kind which CPR is well known for. So I don't think people would necessarily think of CPR when they were looking for a topper for their game. it might be surprised to see it was just kind of there yeah it was there it was convenient people making an order for a playfield glass and plastic set I'll throw the topper into why not right it was a little thing that was just sitting there tempting and if they took it they took it if they didn't they did okay so let's talk about your sale your back to the basement sale and what that actually means. Obviously, you're trying to reduce the amount of stock you're going to and different product lines that you're going to take to your smaller premises. So that launched today, the 1st of February. And how long does that run for? And what might people be looking out for across the month? It's going to run all month. So we're going to run it all the way to the 28th. give everyone a nice month window to snatch everything they want to snatch while the getting's good. The least amount of stuff we have to move to the new location, the better. Just as an anecdote, the playfield stock that we have, and you'll notice a lot of aggressive price cuts, you know, there's these playfields sitting around that have been shedding, right, for years even, where there's still 15, 20-plus left and selling one or two a year. Our idea is, of course, obviously, to blow them out the door. Come get them because if this is more in your price budget and you've got a game you always wanted to swap and this is easier on your wallet, we welcome you. Come grab it now. We're happy to see it go because, again, these ones selling one, two a year, and if you get 20 on the shelf, it'll be 10 years to sell what we've got left. If we can get as many of those out the door and start kind of fresh from our new site and really have a look at what we need to remake and whatever, we're quite happy to let it go right now. So that's kind of the plan with the playfields. You'll notice plastics and glasses are not on sale because we make those on demand. So we have lots of raw glass here that's blank and lots of PET-T and all of the different master sheets sizes, ready for orders at any time. So there's no stock per se sitting here. But people are, of course, able to grab them with these discount playfields. And they are doing that as we speak. So there's really no urgency there. There's no problem in moving those because we've just got PETG and blank glass and stuff to move. And we just get that on demand from the glass and plastic suppliers anyway. So there's no urgency there. You'll notice a new, we call the bargain corner. It's kind of a clearance section we're adding to the site. And we're probably going to keep that. It's not just for February. But its current function is to get rid of stuff that's been lingering around the shop. We've been pack rats for 21 years. We've got stuff in the back rooms and on racks and on shelves that we just couldn't bear to throw away because some of it's cool. And, you know, it's just instead of going to the dumpster, we've held on to reject prints and check-ins and blemish products and stuff, always thinking that maybe someday it'll find a home, you know what I mean? So you'll notice that section will be populating all month. It's getting bashed right now. People are grabbing stuff up really quickly. But there's like reject back glasses, misprints, things with blemishes or scratches on them, and on and on and on. and everyone is listed separately and has its individual pictures and descriptions. Yes. So people can go in and look at that section all month, and I'm going to be trying to stay on top of it. It takes a little bit of work because you've got to hunt stuff down in the shop, take it down, get it photographed, get the prescription, you know, assign it a code and get it in the system and up on the website. And we'll be doing that throughout the month in little waves. It won't be every day, but that'll be the plan. And so as it's being snatched up, don't fret. There'll be other stuff coming right behind it. So who knows what you might find. It's, like I say, the stuff we don't even haven't looked at in years that will be emerging. And we're just going to, we just want to get rid of it, right? So it's, that's kind of the story behind that. I was looking at it just now, and basically everything is sold out in Bargain Corner except for two items. Oh, my God. So it would be a shame if we do this interview and there's nothing left. Yeah. But you will be adding more silica as and when you get to it. I just want folks not to fret. Like, don't worry. There's more coming, and I'm happy that this stuff is going to go into homes where, you know, they'll be able to put it up on their game room wall or maybe even put it in a game. Like, whatever their plans are for it, I'm not worried about, but I'm just happy that these things are finding homes. It's almost like having an animal shelter, and you want the cats and dogs to find good homes. That's kind of the gist of it is just to finally get it out of here because we don't want to move it. There's not going to be the room to have all this stash, and now's the time. So that's the story behind it. Okay, so aside from the bargain corner being very popular, well, the news got out today that you're not closing down, but you're reducing your footprint, moving to a new location, and sticking to your, like you explained, playfield plastics and backplots. How's the response been on the news that you're sort of downsizing? I think people are just happy that we're still going to be around. Like, this isn't doom and gloom. It's just a big, it's like changing gears on your vehicle. We just have to downshift in order to really have a future, at least under my purview, where going forward, I want to happily take this forward in a way that it will last and be around a long time. So, you know, I do have a retirement coming just like Mike. We are two different ages and Mike's his retirement now. I still probably have a good eight to ten years in me. So that's sort of my vision. And I hope for the best, and the hobby will still sustain this all that time. I don't see why it couldn't under this new format. And that's why we're changing into that, because it was for the sustainability of it that we looked at where the revenue has been and has headed. And it's like, God, if we can move into this model and that size with that amount of people and this amount of product and introduce this amount of new stuff every year, we can ride this train out for the next eight to ten years, I think, unless something severely changes in the hobby, but we have to do it. There's no getting around it. We can't stay big and bloated and, you know, in this giant business park unit that was built around a lot of the stuff that we've let go and on and on that we've already talked about. So I think the vibe, I hope, out there will be positive. I have seen some congratulations to Mike, and we all feel the same way. I mean, Mike will still be around and good buddy and watching us closely and will certainly be helping us out from the sidelines. But he has his own plan with his wife to truly retire and put their feet up and have a new phase for their life as well. So that's very important. And it's just mine is a ways away. So my greatest concern is to keep the ship afloat, prosperity, keep everyone happy, and keep these products alive and available in the hobby. It's just going to be under a different framework, and it won't be as aggressive. So people are going to have to have some patience where if something does sell out and we're going to start allowing, as we said in the press release, what's new here is going to be this cooling off period. Yeah, do you want to explain that? It means that, say, yeah, just to make it clear for everyone, this cooling off period means that, and this is different from the past, let's say, I'll just take an example, let's say eight ball deluxe playfields go sold out. The shelf goes empty. That never used to happen. We either had like 15 or 10 coming behind it quickly, like we saw the last one or two coming, and we were aggressively chasing that tail. so if it did hit sold out it was only for a matter of a week or two because they'd be coming out a clear coat a fresh match going right behind it um that's how we worked things we were aggressively allowing a shelf not to hit sold out the new way is going to be we will allow a play field we'll keep eight ball deluxe as the example we will allow that to hit sold out and then we're going to allow this cooling off period, meaning three, six, maybe eight months will go by, and then we'll consider a rebatch of another 10 or whatever. And we'll do that very mathematically based on sales rates that we can see in our system. It's easy to dump that kind of data from the website and so on. If 8Ball Deluxe sells five a year, well then, if that's the rate it was at, we'll consider maybe making a batch of five or seven to re-put it back in stock, but maybe six, eight months later. And then we'll have enough for another year or more, right? So it'll be simple mathematics, very logical, and there'll be these cooling off periods where those who are hunting for an eight ball deluxe playfield will just have to wait, but they'll come back and then there'll be another long period before they get sold out again. So it's just sort of a reduction in aggression, I guess. And we're just going to kind of play it by ear, very logical, and just not overextend ourselves. Does that make sense? I mean, when looking at demand, I'm guessing you won't be including sales from the current back-to-the-basement sale because I'm looking at 8-ball-de-lux as you brought it up. It is sold out. It is out of stock, it says, on your website at the moment. but presumably it sold quite a large number of those because the price has come down from $899 to $699 and that's the demand and got those people who were on the fence about purchasing one to actually do it but presumably you can't capture what the demand is at that price so it's There isn't a button that says, put me on the list for that and let me know when it's available. Yes. There's a simple wait list or there's a button there. Like anyone who's signed in as a CPR site member, they can hit that button and it'll just send them emails that instantly tell them it's back in stock and it's auto-generated. The system does it all on its own. So very, very simple to do that. Yeah, they can certainly opt in for a wait list, and they'll be notified. So, yeah, if 8-Ball Deluxe is sold out now, that means, okay, there's an easy example from the story I just told. That will now go into its cooling period, quote-unquote, and let's say, you know, it's February now. It will become a consideration, maybe by August, September, to have another small rebatch done. and then on it goes. So, perfect example. Right. So, maybe a little bit off topic, but obviously you're moving to a smaller facility. You're having this bargain sale with the products that you're offering, but will you also be offering any machinery and stuff like that that you use to make all these products that we love so much? well not to the hobby but locally amongst amongst businesses here in Nova Scotia yes we have people kicking the tires on different gear and so on some of it's already gone some of it already is um is proposed and so on and is available um yeah all the industrial equipment um will have homes and you know it won't be there for the move but yeah that's how we're going to play that where it just sort of moves out as different businesses around Halifax and throughout the province come truck it away and it'll live on in a new building with a new purpose and that's where the equipment's going to go. Okay. It's like somebody was listening and thinking like, hmm, a t-shirt line. That might be something I'd be interested in producing myself and they figure, like, let's reach out to get some silkscreening equipment from you. No point in reaching out, I suppose, because it's all gone already. The garment stuff? Well, actually, that's if you're specifically asking about the garment silkscreening gear, that actually is still in storage. Now, we're not letting our silkscreen press go. No way, no how. The one we've had since the beginning has been a workhorse forever, and we love it. But I guess the carousel and the garment, the curing heater and all that stuff, that's still in storage. We haven't even tried that. I don't know. It's an older tech now because everyone, I guess, just like everything, even garment printing has gone digital. I don't know if you knew that. But websites like teespring.com and so on, if you notice, they have millions of T-shirt designs, but they don't have a million different millions of T-shirts in stock in all six sizes. They and then, you know, dozens of colors. They wait for you to place an order on the website. And if you pick, say, a shirt with a pop bumper on it, and you like the adult XL size in Gildan cotton in the color green, and that's your order, and you pay for it and check out, well, that goes on their manufacturing list that day to take that blank shirt from stock. They just have to stock all the blank shirts and all the sizes and fashions. They grab that shirt. It goes to a digital garment press, and the design comes from their server, goes on it, and they make one shirt. One shirt goes in the package and then shipped to you. So they just wait for orders all day and make them as they come in. That's what garment printing is today. It's, I mean, 99% of it. Look, there's still Marc Silk screening around. there's a big garment Marc Silk screening business that's been around here for 40 years in Halifax that we're actually good buddies with and they still have their giant 10 color carousel that can put through 1,000 shirts an hour, it's incredible to watch it and there's different schools and things that still get true Marc Silk screen uniforms and shirts and stuff like that, it happens but they've gone, they have a whole digital division now as well, because they have to keep up with the times. That's just the industry. Right. Okay. So, on a, well, bargain corner related matter, you mentioned you will be adding more items throughout the month of February to the bargain corner. I've experienced not you guys, but with another party where I would place an order and I call them the next day and I'm like, hey, I'd like to add that, and they're like, it already shipped. Will it be possible for people to order an item from the bargain corner and ask you to hold it to see whether they will be adding up so it can all ship in one package, or is that too complex? Oh, wow, yeah, that would get really complex fast. You're basically discussing what we call layaways, where their order is done, paid for, but they're like, wait, don't ship it yet. You know, hold on to it. I might add things later. Yeah, we can't. We're just going to have to let this flow naturally. I wish that something that complicated could be executed on kind of a running basis. That would be a utopia. But I think people can understand the logistics of that is just going to be foolishness. if you want something, put it in the card checkout and that's your order and that's going to go into packaging and ship out as a unit or your order and we can't like just I guess hold on to like hundreds of requested orders till something has to go like weeks from now that you may buy or may not so we just can't, I'm sorry it's a good question and on that slight subject Jonathan's obviously in Netherlands I'm in the UK all these products are available to be shipped worldwide are they? Yeah if people are willing to pay the shipping I know it's always unfortunate for the overseas folks whether it's Europe, Australia, New Zealand all the big pinball places that are overseas the Americans have it easy unfortunately the UPS shipping rates even with our huge discount because all our posted rates are approximately 50% off the counter rates that you would get at, say, a UPS store, and they're still outrageous. So, yeah, if people overseas are kind of considering dipping their toe into taking advantage this month, I would say get some buddies together, maybe do a bulk shipment, because the more you get into the shipment, you don't have to pay for the trip all over again, and it's just kind of per pound or per kilogram. The UPS algorithm's weird, But it calculates the more you pile into it, and it gets, I guess, cheaper per weight the more you put into it. So if you're just going to order one plastic set today, and that's it, you know, it's going to be X amount to ship it to Europe. But if it was a playfield glass, five plastic sets, three bargain corner items, and the more you bulk into it and take advantage between yourself and maybe a couple friends, then that makes it much more economical, even though the shipping is still outrageous. To get it all done. So that's what I'd advise. Right. And then just place it all in one order and not five different orders. Exactly. Because you're ending up paying shipping all over again just because UPS treats it as a fresh shipment and a fresh trip, which it is. Right. Right. Well, I just wanted to ask one question, which I think you've probably already answered, in that it's been a bit of a roller coaster with CPI. You know, you started small. You expanded hugely around your product range and the business. And now you're scaling it back. Do you foresee any possibility that you will be able to grow the business again and maybe expand your premises and bring back some of the highlights of when CPR would have its peak? Well, I guess the hobby will dictate that. We have to treat it as a business and we have to think of sustainability and longevity. If there are uptrends, I guess, in that direction and we see it, I mean, we're going to follow that wave. I mean, we'd be stupid not to. But I don't know. I guess we don't know where it's all going to go. I mean, if you knew futures, I mean, you'd be an investment expert and ride very well out for yourself if everyone had that foresight. But I guess we'll just have to see what the hobby behaves like, what the trends do. there's just so much new stuff coming especially in the realm of the full machine manufacturers and stuff, it's extremely exciting, right, so who knows, I mean my eyes will be open we'll be watching the ground and how the feet pitter patter and walk the path because we'll want to be right alongside it so I'm not going to say no I mean, I guess it'll just have to prove itself and and become and materialize itself, I guess. We'll just have to see. Okay. Well, I haven't got any more questions. Jonathan has? No, I think we covered most of the stuff that I had in mind that we would be discussing. I guess all that's left is to point people to the website of Classic Playfields Reproductions, which is classicplayfields.com. And, well, they can have a look around and who knows what you might find that you're like, I had no idea that was available. I'll order it right now. Yes, we'll keep an eye on the Balkan Corner, I guess, and other reductions across the whole of the month of February. So thank you for your time and explanation. Yes, thank you very much, Kevin. And we wish you the best with the new Playfield reproductions in your new form and in your new home. We're looking forward to it. Okay, thanks very much, Kevin. plenty of news from Classic Clayford Reproductions and of course as we say we wish them the best for the future now other news and who knows there might be an update on that once they're all set up we're going to keep following the progress of the company we have a little bit of other news there was a large auction of pinball and other arcade game artwork taking place at Heritage Auctions which is online, they're based in Texas actually and you can bid and you can view the items and bid on them online there's 140 items in total including back glasses, cabinets playfield artwork concept art some apparently good prices at the moment some of the things are there we don't have any bids apparently, it seems to be like $1 currently or $5 very low, but there are lots of extras to be added once you start bidding on any of this stuff. There's a buyer's premium of 25% of the successful bid or a minimum of $49. So if you buy something for like $1, it's going to cost you a lot more. And on to that, tax shipping, which is a minimum of $14.42 domestic. You see I've been researching this. So yeah, I worked out in the end, even a $1 item, if you buy it for that, it's going to cost you $70 by the time all these things are on, and that's just for one item. But you can bundle things together and take on shipping, but that's about it. Everything else is going to be expensive. But some interesting items there, and certainly worth having a look. There's some moulds in there as well for some of the parts that we've seen. Probably good stuff for Gerald at the Dutch Pinball Museum to acquire. Yeah, so what I understood is all these items are actually coming from planetary pinball supplies, who are, well, responsible. They basically license the rights to anything Bally Williams related. And took ownership of a whole bunch of physical assets. Well, that's the part that I don't understand. If you license something, how can you take ownership? because a license is for a certain period and after that the license expires and you don't own it anymore or you can't... Yeah, but they also bought all the assets from Gene Cunningham, didn't they, as well? Right. And it's probably stuff that's probably coming from there. Which came from Williams and the Williams factory in the first place and other companies as well, Capcom included. Yeah. Yeah, so... Oh, well, it's interesting. from a pinball historian point of view it's definitely interesting to see some early sketches and things for artwork for games in this concept. Surprisingly, yeah, there's a lot of Benny Williams stuff, but also Data East, Sega items, even a playfield sketch for Total Recall prototype and Playboy artwork for the Data East version of Playboy. Yeah. So, very interesting, worthwhile to take a look. The link is ha.com That's the main website and then you just look for pinball stuff. Yes. That will take you to the the proper pages, and even if the auction has already ended, it's still interesting to just take a look at the photos. They have been well documented. I mean, even the molds, I think, of each mold, there's at least three photos in different angles, so you get to see all angles of such molds, so you know what you're getting into. So, we look forward to seeing how that pans out. other news well there was only we mentioned before about pinball at the beach it's taking place this weekend St Pete's in Florida as I said I'm going Jonathan's book she can't make it the ladies are invited four DJ bookings in three days so yes I have to make a living I think I know where I'm going but well you haven't played me you haven't played me that's why I said it anyway it's a full report on Pinball News and of course we're reporting back next month's Pincast and on that note we will be back, Jonathan and I will both be back at the start barring any GJ bookings but back at the start of March with our next Pincast looking back at all the exciting events in the pinball industry throughout this month of February. So, until then. Which include Pimble at the Beach, and of course a new cornerstone revealed by Stern Pimble. So, something to look forward to. Yep, so, oh well, yes, or will it? That's the question. Yeah, licencing, licensor pending approval. Yes. So, anyway, until the start of next month, the start of March, when we're back, that's it from me, Martin Ayer, with Pimble News. and me Jonathan Yoston of Pinball and we hope you have a fabulous February and look forward to seeing you again at the start of next month for the next edition of the Pinball Industry News Pincast bye for now