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Episode 11: Smooth Operator

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 38m·analyzed·Dec 2, 2017
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TL;DR

Route operator Steve Burrell discusses pinball maintenance philosophy and location operations in Northern California.

Summary

Spencer Klingin hosts episode 11 of The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast with guest Steve Burrell, a Northern California route operator who maintains pinball machines at commercial locations. The conversation covers Burrell's journey from collector to operator, his philosophy on game maintenance and player experience, his best-earning titles (notably Addams Family), and the challenges of finding and servicing locations in California.

Key Claims

  • Addams Family is Burrell's best earner, performing particularly well at Shuffles on Fourth Street in Santa Rosa's Railroad Square, where it roughly doubles the earnings of other games in its lineup

    high confidence · Steve Burrell directly discussing current routing performance

  • A typical pinball machine takes approximately four years to break even on investment in terms of return on investment at good locations

    high confidence · Steve Burrell citing his Metallica machine's ~4 year payoff timeline and characterizing this as typical ROI

  • Finding new locations for pinball machines in California is extremely difficult; Burrell estimates needing to contact 20-30 venues to secure one viable location

    high confidence · Steve Burrell describing location acquisition challenges in Northern California

  • Most established route operators lack the skill set and motivation to properly maintain pinball machines, focusing only on coinup, flipper function, and display operation

    high confidence · Steve Burrell comparing his maintenance standards to older, larger operators' indifference

  • Junkyard required approximately two years of restoration work and required parts sourced from Australia

    high confidence · Steve Burrell discussing his restoration of Junkyard before placing it on location

  • Fanny Ann's has a business permit allowing up to 10 pinball machines and currently operates 9 pinballs plus 1 foosball game

    high confidence · Steve Burrell stating location capacity and current inventory

  • Service calls in Sacramento consume 5+ hours of operator time (including travel), making preventive maintenance economically critical

    high confidence · Steve Burrell explaining service call economics

  • The Junkyard game was previously operated by another operator who gave it heavy use before Burrell acquired it for restoration

    high confidence · Steve Burrell noting the game's condition when acquired and his reluctance to name the previous operator

Notable Quotes

  • “I wanted to have games like I saw at a friend's house, or if I go to a show, I wanted to have games that were like that to where, you know, they would play, they'd play well, be clean... I wanted that game to be able to share with everybody else and have people have a good experience with pinball.”

    Steve Burrell @ mid-episode — Encapsulates Burrell's philosophy as a 'collector-operator' prioritizing player experience over pure profit

  • “It's not just having skills, you know, on how to work on pinball, it's having the mentality of caring. And that's, especially with the older, bigger operators from what I've seen, that's just not there.”

    Steve Burrell @ mid-episode — Distinguishes his operational approach from industry norm; suggests care/passion drives quality differentiation

  • “If I have a service call in Sacramento, that's five hours. That costs me five hours in time... It's better for me as a business person to make sure I'm doing all the maintenance and checking.”

    Steve Burrell @ late-episode — Reveals economic logic behind preventive maintenance culture; operational best practice insight

  • “Pinball is the hardest thing to route. It takes the most... If you hire somebody at close to minimum wage, you're not going to get those skills with that kind of money. It's just not likely to happen.”

    Steve Burrell @ mid-episode — Identifies structural barrier to pinball operator scaling; explains why many larger operators neglect pinball

  • “I could spend a lot less time and go do something else but you know if I'm gonna spend the time rehabbing a game and spend all the time finding a game and putting it out there I want it to be nice... I'm a player first.”

    Steve Burrell @ late-episode — Articulates collector-operator hybrid identity; prioritizes play experience over business efficiency

  • “These are operators, yourself and then Joe, who we know in the community, are collectors. We're people that really love pinball. And if you're making money, that's awesome, but you guys are doing it a lot less about making money.”

    Spencer Klingin @ mid-episode — Host recognizes distinction between passion-driven collector-operators and commercial operators; identifies community value

Entities

Steve BurrellpersonSpencer KlinginpersonSeth HolderpersonMark ScottpersonJoe AbatepersonBlown Fuse Steve SharlinpersonFanny Ann'svenueCoin-OpvenueShuffles on Fourth Streetvenue

Signals

  • ?

    operational_signal: Burrell estimates requiring contact with 20-30 venues to secure one viable location for pinball machines in California, indicating significant saturation of traditional venues and competitive pressure among operators

    high · Direct statement: 'it's just, it's that tough... you could just, like I said, email. I emailed a lot of places... a lot of it's just, you know, asking 20 to 30 places and maybe you'll get one out of that.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Service calls in Sacramento cost 5+ hours of operator time; preventive maintenance is economically critical for route operators

    high · Burrell: 'If I have a service call in Sacramento, that's five hours. That costs me five hours in time. And that's assuming I can get everything handled in an hour.'

  • $

    market_signal: Addams Family earns roughly double the revenue of surrounding premium titles at Shuffles on Fourth Street, Santa Rosa, but underperformed significantly at Wicked West Sacramento location, indicating venue characteristics (type, traffic, clientele) have major impact on game performance independent of title quality

    high · Burrell: 'it's doing really well now in santa rosa... it didn't do very well in sacramento... it just dominates now... It just doubles what everything else around it does.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Distinction emerging between 'collector-operator' segment (Burrell, Joe Abate) prioritizing game quality and player experience, versus traditional commercial operators focused only on basic functionality and revenue extraction

    high · Spencer Klingin: 'These are operators, yourself and then Joe, who we know in the community, are collectors... you guys are doing it a lot less about making money.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.295

0:00
Good evening and welcome to episode 11 of the Spinner's Lit Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Spencer Klingin. Not with us tonight is our co-host and engineer, Seth Holder, who's away on enjoying time with the family. So we wish you well, Seth. I want to give a special thank you and shout out to Mark Scott for Reno, Nevada. Mark wrote and composed, played the Spinners Lit Pinball Podcast main show theme, which you just heard for the first time. And Mark is a good guy in Reno, a good friend, a good friend of the show, and a good pinhead. So thank you for that, Mark. And now we have a very special guest tonight who's a route operator in Northern California.
1:07
Here's an amazing act. Here's a tremendous act. Here's a startling act. The amazing, the thrilling, the greatest, spectacular, incredible, exciting, wonderful, world-famous, most unusual novelty act. With us tonight is Smooth Operator, Steve Burrell. Steve, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on. The Spinner is Lit.
1:27
Yes, good to have you on tonight. So I know you're a route operator and you operate pinball machines on location as well as other coin op, you know, video arcade games and other things.
1:42
What was the first game you owned? I was roller games back in 2010. That's what got it all started. I found it on Craigslist, and even back then, pinball had become pretty popular and hard to get games even then on Craigslist. So I was quick to get over there and pick it up.
2:03
And that's kind of how it started. It was kind of in sad shape. I mean, the play field was okay. It just was really dirty, and the GI didn't work, which is pretty typical on those games. But with a little help from Clay and his Pinball Ninja website and his – I can't remember the – now that I have him on CDs, but back then he had him on his Pinball Ninja site. Right, right. Reading all that stuff. And then I volunteered at the Pinball Museum as well. So between that game and volunteering there and then buying games along the way, I got pretty decent at repairing them and, you know, shopping them out. So that's kind of how it got started. Cool, cool. So I'm going to assume you played pinball as a kid, like a lot of us? You know, I was more of a video game kid, you know, back in the early 80s when, you know, I played Stargate and Asteroids and Defender.
Wicked West
venue
Buffalo Billiardsvenue
Scandia in Roanoke Parkvenue
Metallicagame
Addams Familygame
Junkyardgame
Elvisgame
Star Trekgame
Ghostbustersgame
Spider-Mangame
Jurassic Parkgame
Iron Mangame
Roller Coaster Tycoongame
Funhousegame
Transformersgame
The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
?

operational_signal: Pinball maintenance requires specialized skills; large operators cannot attract qualified technicians at near-minimum wage rates, creating structural barrier to pinball adoption for scale operators

high · Burrell: 'If you hire somebody at close to minimum wage, you're not going to get those skills with that kind of money. It's just not likely to happen.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Positive sentiment toward well-maintained locations (Fanny Ann's, Coin-Op) and recognition that collector-operators are rescuing pinball from industry-wide quality decline

    high · Spencer Klingin: 'When I tell people out and they go there and go man you weren't kidding the games are perfect there.' Joe Abate location: 'all relevant, all good, clean, playing nice. I mean, I was really impressed. They've really stepped it up.'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Emerging trend of multiple independent operators sharing single venue with no formal contracts; smaller operators more accepting of shared arrangements than larger established operators

    medium · Burrell: 'there's more shared locations... probably two or three operators in there and there's no contracts... especially with smaller operators. They don't seem to mind that. Some of the bigger guys aren't going to like that.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Fanny Ann's location has significant logistical challenges (3 flights of stairs, no elevator, difficult parking) but player-friendly attributes (family-accessible, good ambiance, quality games) that sustain it as premium location

    high · Burrell describing escalera equipment purchase for stairs; Spencer noting 'parking was a little better' complaint but venue's other strengths offset

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Junkyard restoration required 2-year timeline and parts sourcing from Australia, indicating extreme difficulty obtaining replacement components for some classic machines

    high · Burrell: 'I had to go to Australia to get parts. What's that company? Australia Spare Parts or Spare Parts Australia.'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Burrell exploring potential for dedicated barcade location with 10+ pinball machines in Sonoma County area (not Sacramento); indicates emerging opportunity in market

    medium · Burrell: 'There is an opportunity locally here maybe to do like a barcade theme. I'm talking to somebody now... It'd be nice to see a place that had like maybe 10 or 10 plus pinball games at a location. But that's not in Sacramento. That's over here in Sonoma County.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball Map being used as referral tool by community members to direct casual players to venues, supporting grass-roots location discovery and venue traffic generation

    high · Spencer introducing clients to pinball: 'And you know, like, wow, is there any place, you know, close by to play? I'm like, here, pinball map, you know, and point them in the direction of stuff nearby to go play.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Metallica machine (new purchase) achieved near-payback in 4 years at Fanny Ann's location; Burrell confirms this is typical ROI for pinball machines on good routes

    high · Burrell: 'It's close [to payoff]. Okay, well, not already. It's been on location, what, four years almost?... which is, you know, typical return on investment on pinball.'

    • 3:05
    So I played here and there, but I just was never that good at it. It was more of a learning curve, and quarters were valuable as a 10-year-old kid. So you got $3 after you mow your aunt's lawn, and I could play for a while on video games.
    3:22
    But I did play later when I went to college, Solano Community College in Cordelia. I played Funhouse, and right next to it they had a Street Fighter 2. So those got quite a bit of play for me.
    3:36
    Funhouse, I seem to take to that. I could play it decently even back then, so it wasn't just eating my money.
    3:44
    Right, right. Yeah, as a kid, you always wanted to make your quarters last as long as possible. I played a lot of pinball as a kid because I came up, it was still the EM days. And then by the time I was about 11, 12, the arcade games, the video games started really popping. And I started playing those as well, but I would always drift back into pinball. I remember some of the great early solid state games You know One that I remember in particular like Xenon There was a local arcade And they had a Xenon And they had a Future Spawn Like a Rolling Stone All Bally games at the time And I would play the others once in a while too Well rarely Rolling Stone But because like stuff like Pac-Man Or even Donkey Kong I was okay at But you know you could win free games at pinball So I would drift back to pinball because I knew I was good enough where I could probably win a couple of free games.
    4:40
    So I kind of drifted back and forth, but later on I came back to pinball full circle. So how did you get started routing games? So you got your first game, and you're playing it, and you're having fun with it. You didn't buy that specifically to route, though, right? No, that game hasn't been routed. I was in it a couple years. It had probably been about three years collecting, give or take. And, you know, my initial intention, you know, was just to have a different hobby. For years I was into Buicks and Grand Nationals, and all my time and money went to that. So I just got tired of that. And, you know, I wanted something that could use a skill set I already had from work, you know, electronics, you know, mechanical skills, whatnot, and, you know, and pinball. And it was cleaner. And they were something, you know, you weren't just pouring money into something. It was just kind of going away. You know, there was some value there, and you could see it, and you could move on to something else. You could play it. There's just so many different aspects to pinball that are really cool and really fun, and it doesn't seem like a waste.
    5:49
    Yeah. No, no, I can definitely see it. So what was the first title you put on location? Well, that's easy. I bought a brand-new Metallica machine. That was my first new in-box game. And I ended up buying two. I ended up buying a refinery and that's the one I had at Pentagogo like two years ago. And then the whole idea is, well, you know, I always want to have like a small business of my own and this would be a good way to start. And so I found my actually I emailed the guy. I saw a commercial for Buffalo Billiards on TV and it's like, oh, that's interesting. And I knew of the name, you know, around here. It's pretty big name. And I heard of the owner. So I said on a whim, I decided to email him and he emailed me back right away. It was interested and I went and met with him. and a few minutes later he said, oh yeah, you can bring in a game or two. So I thought that was easy.
    6:36
    So that game was at that location probably a year before it went to Fanny Ann's in Old Town. Right, it stayed at Fanny Ann's for what, a couple of years? Yeah, it was there for a couple of years.
    6:48
    A lot of people were probably disappointed when I moved that, but you can't keep buying new games and that's my best location, so I wanted to be able to buy new games and bring them there. And at some point, even though the game was still earning, I had to move it, and that game actually went back to Buffalo Bridge and is doing really well there now. So it kind of came full circle and went back to where it started. Cool. It's good to hear it's still earning well. So has it paid for itself already? It's close. Okay, well, not already. It's been on location, what, four years almost? Four years. It's about almost there, which is, you know, typical return on investment on pinball. That's not really, you know, that's not unusual.
    7:26
    What's helpful with pinball is just that the games are so valuable, which kind of hurts it and helps at the same time. Obviously, it's harder to go buy games cheaper and put them on route because they're just expensive. And you buy something older, it's not a lot of fun to spend a lot of money on something you have to spend 50 hours redoing, depending on the title. But sometimes it's – depending on the location, sometimes I'll buy a new game, especially for games that are two hours away.
    7:55
    Right, right. And speaking of locations, how do you go about finding a good location? Well, that's the trick. It's really tough. I thought it would be a lot easier when I started, you know, California real estate being so expensive to convince somebody to move something or that doesn't already have gains. I won't say it's impossible, but it's very difficult, you know.
    8:17
    But, you know, you could just, I mean, there's a lot of ways, I guess. I mean, you could, I've talked to people that said, well, you could always check to see who's, you know, has pulled out a license, a business license and see who's, you know,
    8:28
    who's starting another business or, you know, get referrals. I've had that happen once. Somebody referred me to a place that they knew the owner and that's how I got into Wicked West. Yeah. Or you could, you know, like I said, email. I emailed a lot of places that, you know, it doesn't, you know, it doesn't always work, but a lot of it's just, you know, asking 20 to 30 places and maybe you'll get one out of that. It's just, it's that tough. But the problem is finding places that are even, I think, that could actually be a good location.
    8:59
    Right, right. I imagine a lot of the more traditional places like pizza places and stuff, they've probably had the same route operator for a decade or more if they've been around a while.
    9:11
    So it's finding for good locations, I would assume. it's tough too because there's it's not like well it's hard to explain but you know people like you said they've been around for decades and they stick with the same people which is fine but I've put up from what I'm seeing now is we're seeing more shared locations like my first location there's probably two or three operators in there and there's no contracts and that's fine but I'm starting to see that a little bit more there's more especially with smaller operators. They don't seem to mind that. Some of the bigger guys aren't going to like that. Right. Well, for example, do you do anything with like jukeboxes or anything?
    9:54
    Not yet. I'm not opposed to it, but I don't do that yet. It's just... Right. So if somebody wants to like in there in a bar and they have some of the jukeboxes, but they don't want to mess with pinballs, then they probably wouldn't be opposed to you coming in and putting in a pinball or two because they don't want to mess up in any way. Yeah. That makes sense. Because I know there's a lot of route operators out there that just – they'll do video games and they'll do pool tables and they'll do jukeboxes and they'll do like the novelty games like the boxing games and like that. But they just – they don't want to mess with pinballs and they haven't in years. It's because it's the hardest thing to route. That's why. It takes the most. It makes the – I won't say the least, but it's just the – And if I do pretty much everything myself, my wife helps and I have friends that help me on occasion, but it's – Right, right. But it's – there's a skill set there and you need to have lots of parts.
    10:54
    And if you hire – if you're a big operator and you hire somebody at close to minimum wage, you're not going to get those skills with that – with offering somebody that kind of money. It's just not likely to happen. Right, right. working the flipper you know they're sharp they're crisp your games play and look like they're supposed to and thank you because you know what it's it's nothing's more frustrating you know for us old season pin has and even especially for somebody you know that's a casual player that doesn't play pinball a lot but they're they're getting some food or they're at a bar or whatever they're like oh cool checking out a kiss pinball machine whatever and they go up they throw their 50 cents their buck in and nothing works you know the flipper doesn't work or you know the the well that's been my experience before I was an operator, you know, when I first started collecting, and, you know, that's the thing to do, you want to go find other games, see what's out there, see what I might want to buy, see what I, you know, since a lot of these games I didn't play, I played video games, I didn't, you know, have that chance, so I've got into it late, and, and that was always disappointing, you'd actually find something, it was dirty, weak flippers, features didn't work, I mean, and when I first decided to operate, I wanted to be different, you know, I wanted to have games like I saw at a friend's house, or if I go to a show, I wanted to have games that were like that to where, you know, they would play, they'd play well, be clean. You know, that was kind of my whole philosophy on, you know, having a game on location. And I wanted to have, you know, like you were going in your own personal man cave or game room. I wanted that game, you know, to be able to share with everybody else and have people have a good experience with pinball. Because most of the time, you know, you go to Reno years ago and it's just, I don't know how it is now, but years ago it was just, or wherever you went, I mean, it's more likely than not you're going to find a game that was just in disrepair. And operators, just a lot of them don't care. And that's where I think I'm different. You know, I have kind of a way of doing it. When I go on location to collect, I feel a responsibility. You know, okay, I need to at least wipe down everything. I can't necessarily play every game, but I try to pick a couple of pinballs. You know, one is a little dirtier than others. or some ball tracking, I'll pick like two and do a full cleaning on those, you know, and then check this, you know, make sure everything's tight underneath. You know, usually put my hands all around the game, make sure there's no loose plastics, you know.
    13:42
    And, you know, and just, you know, make sure the flippers are strong. I mean, just do, just care. I mean, that's, you know, having, it's not just having skills, you know, on how to work on pinball, it's having the mentality of caring, you know, And that's, especially with the older, bigger operators from what I've seen, that's just not there. They don't really care about it. A lot of time a game is there just to make the owner happy because they're making money on a jukebox or pool table or whatever. I mean, the pinball is not really there for, you know, it's just there to make somebody happy. And if you operate that way, you're not going to really care about that piece. And that's what's happened a lot over the years.
    14:22
    Yeah, yeah. We've seen – all of us who play pinball and go on location, we've seen it over the years. The one nice thing I think I've seen lately is we have two main locations. There's a lot of smaller locations in the Sacramento area where I live and where you operate some games out of that have one or two pinballs or three pinballs. There's a lot of little diners and bars and movie theaters and like that. Some are better than others. the two main locations are the one you operate at is Fanny Ann's where all the games, you've got what, six there right now?
    15:00
    So, you know, as I've spoken, you know, every single time I've ever gone in to play those games they're always, you know, perfect. Everything's perfect. They're level, they're clean, everything's working on them and they're a joy to play, you know, and we're grateful that you do operate games and have those out there. And the one Another one I'll give a shout-out to is in all the games, Joe Abate.
    15:29
    Yeah, that place is really nice. I was just there two weeks ago, and I was very impressed. The games in the back, all the pins, to see what 13 pins in a row that are just, you know, all relevant, all good, clean, playing nice. I mean, I was really impressed. They've really stepped it up, and that's a really good location. It is. In fact, I was there today, as a matter of fact. I joined some of the local guys down there, met up with them, played for an hour and a half, two hours, and had a good time. And I got some time on the new Lexi Lightspeed game, which I'd played one or two games at Pinnagogo when it was there a couple years ago. But now they've got one on location there. And I got a few games on that, a few games on some of the other titles.
    16:17
    And it was good. And they keep everything real nice. Like you, they keep things up, so I'll give a shout-out to them as well. But these are operators, yourself and then Joe, who we know in the community, are collectors. We're people that really love pinball. And if you're making money, that's awesome, but you guys are doing it a lot less about making money. I mean, you don't want to lose money, obviously, but you're doing it just to keep pinball alive out on location and to keep it going and introduce new people to it. Well it also feeds the collector in us too It kind of has a, it goes both ways I mean it's nice to be able to buy new games Or buy games and you know I don't have Unlimited space too so it's nice to be able To buy stuff and not have to flip it Or trade it and once in a while I have done that But it's not really my primary focus Is to flip games or You know to trade You know unless it's you know I want a different game to put on route or a different Game for home. In fact the Junkyard, speaking of trading, the Junkyard at Coin-Op, that was my game. That was at Fanny Ann's that Joe and I traded at Pinnagogo. Yeah, you traded that for a Fishtails, didn't you? It was... No, somebody else bought a Fishtails. I'm not sure who. I got the Elvis. It's a game I always wanted. Okay. So that was... Yeah, I just remember there was a Fishtails there for a while. Okay, Elvis is a good Steve Ritchie title.
    17:39
    Cool. So you have that at home? It's actually at my parents' house at the moment. Oh, okay, cool. So, I don't know. Yeah, I played Junkyard today. I really liked that game. I used to play it a lot when you had it at Fannie Ann's.
    17:53
    You know, and it's still playing good. Played great today. Couldn't really hear it too well only because it was really crowded in there, like all the games were going. And, yeah, but it played smooth. It looked clean and good. All the lights in New York and everything. Yeah, that game was really beat when I got it. Oh, yeah. I don't want to mention the operator because I still somewhat work with them, but they got their money's worth and full use out of that game. It took me a while. It took me, I don't know, two years to finish that game. I had to go to Australia to get parts.
    18:27
    What's that company? Australia Spare Parts or Spare Parts Australia. It's a decent game. It's fun. Yeah.
    18:38
    It's just one of the reasons I'm breaking that spot in there. yeah yours your place good well i remember you had it a quarter a quarter of play just before you took it out so i put money into it thanks thank you for having her on location man i mean how often do you see a junkyard on location yeah that's true these days that game actually not too often cool no that's good to hear so you're not opposed to putting older games no not at all i'm getting more i'm getting more uh into that it's something i definitely want to do more of. And there is an opportunity locally here maybe to do like a barcade theme. I'm talking to somebody now, so that may or may not happen. It'd be nice to see a place that had like maybe 10 or 10 plus pinball games at a location. But that's not in Sacramento. That's over here in Sonoma County. So I'll keep you posted.
    19:31
    Yeah, please let us know, Matt, because I'll definitely talk about it on the show and get it out on Facebook, get it out on all the social media, you know, because, you know, people, you know, when I introduce anybody new to pinball, one of my clients, I introduced, I mean, I introduced him to it because they played, him and his wife, they played a lot when they were younger. And they're like, you know, I just haven't played pinball in years. My wife loves to play pinball. And I brought them, they came to Pentagogo last year. And, you know, they had a blast. So it's like, and they're, they're from Napa.
    20:03
    And, you know, like, wow, is there any place, you know, close by to play? I'm like, here, pinball map, you know, and point them in the direction of stuff nearby to go play.
    20:14
    So, you know, the more locations, you know, we get it on there and get it out to the people and they know about it. And, you know, they're going to go check it out. I mean, I don't get there often.
    20:25
    And it's been probably a year and a half since I've had time. I've driven by it a lot. Stopped by the Scandia in Roanoke Park. That's, I know, another good location up in your neck. They have all the latest games.
    20:39
    It's a little noisy in there, and there's kids running around, but he does have good titles there, and he does turn the sound way up, so you'd have to be pretty deaf not to hear the game. Or you'll be deaf after you play the game. He's got them pretty loud there, but I appreciate the sound. I appreciate hearing the game. Yeah.
    20:57
    The last time I was in there, I stopped in, and it was like 2 o'clock in the afternoon on like a Wednesday, so there was no – it was in the middle of school year, So there was nobody in there, you know, so I could hear everything fine. I'm up there occasionally for work, but usually when I'm up there for work, I'm just, you know, I'm trying to get to the next client, next customer and get my work done. So I got done early one day and I had time. I'm like, oh, cool. And I was right by there. I'm like, I'm going in and I've been wanting to get back there just no time. So what's your best routing in the story? What do you mean the game? Be more specific. What do you mean the best pin that makes money?
    21:40
    Oh, well, actually, that's my next question, which title does best on-route, which titles. I don't know, just like the best experience you've had or the worst, like you had a game. I was talking some time ago, two or three years ago, I was talking with Blown Fuse Steve Sharlin, God rest his soul. and uh he had a i want to think i want to say it was a no good gophers actually got shot in a bar so it's one of those you know it could be a good story or bad story but your most interesting you know experience of routing a game i've been fairly lucky in terms of damage or anything of that nature but uh when i first uh got fanny ann's from the previous operator i noticed the lockdown bar had a nice uh obscenity written on it like just carved into it i don't know if you I remember that game there. It was by the stairs. I thought that was pretty interesting. You know, the stuff that will carve into games. And it's like, oh, great, what did I get myself into? But so far, people have respected the games there for whatever reason. And, you know, they write stuff on some of the paneling there. But they haven't written anything on games, thank God.
    22:48
    Good, good. So, so far, no real horror stories. That's good. That's actually real nice. Yeah, with Fanny Ams, too. Because, I mean, that was what I was going to ask you about. I think I might have talked to you about that before. That's three flights of stairs up, and there's no elevator in there, is there? Originally, I just used the appliance dolly. Now I have an escalera. But when I first started, I didn't have anything like that. And, man, I remember the first time I brought games up there, and it was just – I felt like I ran a marathon after I got to that third flight of stairs, just pouring down sweat, and it's just – yeah, that was a workout. But, yeah, I try to make things easier, and I like the escalera. In fact, when I delivered Ghostbusters there and I replaced, I think that was Metallica, I think. I'm not sure. I think that's what I replaced Metallica with. I remember I did that all by myself that day. Wow. Usually I have somebody with me. I don't really like, it's one thing to go collect by yourself, but I don't really like moving games, especially when there's stairs involved. But that was just a situation where I'd already used the Escalera quite a few times and felt confident about it, and I wanted to get that game there as soon as possible. yeah definitely wow that's yeah thank god you got the escalator i can't even imagine trying to hog a game up or down those three flights of stairs in fact going down the stairs i feel is scarier actually that's been my experience it just you know you think it would be going up but it's just the opposite going down the stairs i think it's just more sketchy and especially when they're worn stairs like they are there you just got to be really careful and you know so yeah exactly Like they should put the bars up on the third floor and put the games on the first but it's already built What are you gonna do? Right? That's how they designed everything and it's you know, people know it's there They'd ask, you know reputation in which you know That kind of what I bought into there that people were used to pinball there and they wanted more pinball and you know And they and their permit is good for 10 games I think we at nine now with the foosball is theirs So it seems to work.
    24:47
    So I'm happy with the place. Yeah, it's a good location. So I always enjoy going there. I wish parking was a little better, but I can't really do anything about that. that's the only real complaint I ever hear out of anybody to get to Fanny Ann's parking people you know like the ambience they like the food you know the drinks and then the games are just you know kept perfect so um that's a definite and when I tell people out and they go there and go man you weren't kidding the games are perfect there so um those there's only two places I ever really recommend in Sacramento and that's and that's Fanny Ann's with your games and then coin op with joe one thing about your place too is fanny ann's or your location is you know you can take kids you know and i got little kids that's the only downside with uh with coin op it's nice because you know just where the adults can go my oldest son's 23 he goes with me or my wife occasionally but uh yeah you can't i can't take the little ones so so uh we kind of touched on it a minute ago what are some of the best titles currently to route i mean some of your best earners definitely adam's family which is it's doing really well now in santa rosa it shuffles on fourth street and that's railroad square in santa rosa it didn't do very well in sacramento which i was kind of surprised when i had it at wicked west it was pretty much ignored i'm not sure why but it just dominates now it's it's it's right next to a funhouse and it's just i think it's right in a funhouse for venture mars taxi and i think roller coaster tycoon it just it It just doubles what everything else around it does. That's a really solid lineup, too. I mean, they're all just really fun games.
    26:23
    All ones I enjoy. So, cool. Yeah, you know, the short time that you had it at Wicked West, I got down like two, three times and put some money into it. You had a stellar lineup there, though. When the Atoms was still there, you had what? Atoms, Spider-Man, Jurassic Park. We had Iron Man. Iron Man, Star Trek, Stern Star Trek. Star Trek, yeah. And that's at Fanny Ann's now. That replaced – I had South Park on the bottom of the stairs at Fanny Ann's, and now that's Star Trek Pro. That came from Wicked West when they closed down, and I moved it over to there. Oh, good. I haven't been in a while, so I'm going to get over there and play it real soon because I love that game, and I try to put as much away. There's a couple other places that have it on location, but they don't take care of their games. One's a movie theater. I've never actually been in there to play it. I just know they have it because way back in the day they had a Metallica and a Transformers, and they put the Transformers in brand new out of the box. I went in there a lot and played it. And then the last time I was in that theater, it's been probably two years ago, and that poor Transformers on its last leg, man, nothing worked. I mean, nothing. The flippers are about the only things on the game that actually worked. A lot of operators, the only thing they really care about is does it coin up, does it flip, and does the display work, and everything else in the middle of that, that doesn't concern them. I mean, I've bought games from operators that pulled off route, and I mean, you know, half the insert lighting is done, there's no GI, lighting still works, and literally, oh, it's fresh off route, or, you know, I had been off route for that long, and it's like, I'm thinking to myself, God, obviously, that's why it's not making money anymore. I can't tell them that, but it's pretty obvious why it wasn't doing well anymore. I mean most of the lighting is gone and it's just simple stuff right but that's just it like when I put a game on location I'm trying to I try to replicate that experience as much as I can with a game I bring a game I try to you know I want that experience like when back in the day you have a new game come in well I want to play as close to that and look as close to that as possible or I just won't put it on location it just doesn't you know what's the point right that's how I kind of want to build my reputation and this is how I operate you know I could spend a lot less time and go do something else but you know if I'm gonna spend the time you know rehabbing a game and spend all the time and finding a game and putting it out there I you know I want it to be nice plus I'm a player and a collector but I'm a player first and you know I want it to play nice and usually I'll get to play the game after I'm down at home for quite a while that you know has two functions I get to play it you know it's kind of a reward for all that time spent and then if any problems arise, I want it to come up when I'm playing it and find any issues beforehand because having to make service calls just kills it. It kills it. It just becomes very costly. I mean, if I have a service call in Sacramento, that's five hours. That costs me five hours in time. And that's assuming I can get everything handled in an hour.
    29:26
    So it's better for me as a business person to make sure I'm doing all the maintenance and checking. I mean, stuff's going to happen. I mean, pinball is pinball. It's mechanical. It's going to break, but I try to do all the basics, make sure everything's tight, make sure the sling rubbers are getting ready to break, replace them before that happens, change the pinballs. I mean, just do basic stuff. Yeah.
    29:52
    I've been lucky lately. I've been lucky lately over there with service calls, but I shouldn't say that because now everything will break. There you go. So what are some – okay, so Adam's Family is probably your best earner still, and that's what, a 20-year-old game at least. It's not the best earner really. I mean at that location it is. I mean obviously if you have a game that's a dollar, it takes half the plays to get to the same point. But I've never really – other than the fact that it was routed against Iron Man and Star Trek Pro there, it didn't do well. But I think it really depends on the location, who are your players, young, old, pinball players from the past that – I think it depends. I mean, I've noticed that T2 does good, you know, everywhere I put it. I mean, it doesn't seem to matter. It does, you know, it does close. It won't do as much money as the newer games, but it gets close. I mean, it does. It's very competitive, especially it'll have to be played twice as much, you know.
    30:47
    Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, there's a few games out there like that that, you know, just from talking to you and other operators, like Adam's Family does well almost anywhere.
    30:57
    Terminator 2. South Park. People tell me that South Park does amazingly well still on location. Yeah, that team did really well at Fanny Ann's. It hasn't done as well at other locations, but it's never been a dog or anything like that. It's always done pretty good. It's a fairly reliable game, too, for the most part. It holds up pretty good. In fact, the one I have now is at a laundromat in Sacramento.
    31:20
    They requested it. They requested that game in particular? That's the game they wanted. I had a Dracula there, of Bram Stoker's Dracula. That game was surprisingly hard to route. That one kind of bit me a little bit. I was surprised that, and this is a game I spent a lot of time on, and it's not a low-mileage pin or anything like that, but it got played a lot there. I mean, you have one game and people are waiting around. I mean, I set that game up. I had people waiting to play it before I even was done setting it up, but I was kind of surprised by that, and it got played a lot. And reliability, it was definitely tough to keep that thing going and having everything work. and I was surprised by that there. Wow, wow. How did the Miss Multiball do for you on location? Did you have a lot? It broke. The gates broke. I had a home pin board in there, and it malfunctioned for the long opto boards, and it was tough. It's at home now, and I still need to work on it. I had one of the pop-uppers, one of the rings was busted. and so it's that the game has been if you want to not necessarily a horror story but like with the other question you answered me that one that probably would fall into that category that one was tough uh south park is not really making more money than that game which kind of surprised me but it's been more reliable it's had a few issues but just typical pinball issues i think it had a broken coil wire and i can't and one plastic broke and got stuck in the trough or something the one the plastic spy, the candy toy. But other than that, it's been, you know, that game's pretty solid.
    32:55
    I know most players don't, you know, hardcore people like us don't really like the game, but it's just not a very good home game. It gets repetitive and old and annoying, but it has a location for just casual players, and you know, they seem to really like it. I like the theme myself, but I remember this... Yeah, I love the theme. This particular game I bought from a friend years ago, and I remember when he got it, I wanted to buy it. He's like, well, I don't really want to sell it, but I'll let you borrow it. Oh, cool. I'll do a little work to it. I'll borrow it for a while. I didn't have it there a couple days. I'm just like, oh, man, this game's got to go. I can't stand this game anymore. It just has no legs at home, but on location, it's great.
    33:33
    It's just not a game you want at home. There's literally one around the corner from my house at a pizza place. As far as I know, it's still there. I haven't been in the pizza place lately. But actually Seth and I, me, Seth, and Eric Cheddar went and played it a while back because we went and had lunch there. So, yeah, you know, if there's one on location, man, I'll put a couple bucks into it. But, yeah, I mean, other than that, it's not one of my favorites. But, you know, it's still pinball. So we were talking earlier, I mean, off not recording a few weeks ago, we were talking about actually our last pinball get-together. we were talking about barn finds and uh you have uh i'm what's your best barn find i kind of know the answer to this one but uh tell our listeners about your great barn well about a year ago or so i uh on a whim i called up an operator that i got a number for i like i saw their number on a game that was in disrepair and you know i got the number and i just sat on it for a year and i finally called him and he said you know he said he had like a demo man there and i'm like you know for like 150 dollars i'm like okay and that's a pinball right and he said yes and he said it's at his like warehouse okay so we set up a time to go check it out and i remember you open the door and it was just like i mean the roof's falling down all the insulation and sheet rock and i can't even see the so-called demo man in the back i mean i think i can see a corner of it it kind of looked like you know and then i i see an adams family just the top of it in the back and i see a fish tails that's buried kind of where i'm at and then i looked off to the left, I see a Medieval Madness with the head up and the legs on, and this is a building that had been hit by a car. It had water. You could tell it had water inside. It was just, the place was a mess, and I wasn't able to get the Demolition Man that day, but I was able to get the Medieval Madness, and I asked the guy, I said, well, how much for that game? I think I can get that game out. I mean, keep in mind, there's metal beams on the floor. I mean, there's just crap. There's stuff everywhere. It was, you know, I put a picture on Pinside, but you can't really tell, you know, how bad the conditions were inside this, you know, cinder block building. And the guy, you know, I asked him, well, how much is it? And he says $150. I'm thinking to myself, this guy's going to be messing with me. And so I can't get my money out fast enough. So I paid him and he's like, well, what are you giving me money for? You haven't got it out yet. So I'll get this game out. And he had the escort style dolly there and we were able to move, you know, some stuff out of the way and get it out. But that was just crazy. I couldn't. That was one of those things that just was weird. I ended up buying all the other pins in there. We went later with some friends, and I hooked up two of my friends, so they got some games too.
    36:19
    But the games were a mess. In fact, the Adams family that was on pin side on our NorCal thread, that's the game that was in the back. So if you look at those pictures from Shovelhead, that's the game I'm referring to. so it was you know that one had cabinet damage that he was able to fix and so i mean it was we remember when we were pulling that game out i mean we were really afraid of the game just like the whole corner breaking off or the leg ripping out the insert you know the whole corner was really weak but for the kind of money i mean talk about no look pricing it was like you know it was crazy and the play field on that medieval is really nice the the head was pretty bad you said you saw the pictures on pin side it's you know i was able to i pretty much i didn't restore it yeah i mean i repaired it i mean to where it's stable it looks decent i mean if i wanted to spend more time and money i could have you know use more bondo and more time getting everything all you know everything perfect and flat and then spending money to re-decal it but the art on the sides and the back were still pretty good so i figured well why waste all this art sanding all this down and just bondoing it and just spending a lot of time. You know, I think it looks presentable the way it is, you know. So I just, I re-sprayed the front ridges and the top and then, you know, clamped and glued and clamped all where that was delaminating.
    37:38
    And then used filler on the leading, you know, edges and taped it off and sprayed it. And I think it came out decent.
    37:47
    Yeah, you know, and it plays, so what the heck, right? I mean, you got a medieval madness for, you know, really dirt cheap. So I hear the phone ringing.
    37:57
    Okay, it stopped. Okay, that's all right. Getting back to what I was saying. In fact, the fishtails that we got out of there has been routed. That's definitely a high mileage game. We spent a lot of time getting it going, but the play feels decent on that one.
    38:14
    And on the Medieval Madness, which is interesting on that one, he says it was like pulled from route from like 1999. It was really strange, I guess. because I know when I rebuilt it, it had a few optos and a few switches not working. In fact, the opto for the moat kick out to the left orbit, I know that opto wasn't working. So I don't know if that's – he didn't say anything about that. It just had a broken back glass, and that's kind of why he said he pulled it off location, which I thought was kind of strange. It's like that's not a hard fix. I don't know.
    38:44
    And even he was saying when I bought it, he said, oh, that's a really good game. And I'm thinking, well, why didn't you fix it and put it back on location, which I'm kind of glad he didn't because I can only imagine how bad it would be if he had.
    38:57
    Right, so he just throws it in a rotting, falling apart building where it's going to rain on. So, you know, chickens or pigeons are roosting. That's always my favorite. It's weird. I remember when I first went there, it's shared with a tenant, and the tenant saw me walking looking for the owner and actually stopped me and said, hey, what's going on? I said, oh, I'm waiting for this guy. You know, he's got some games to sell, and he kind of just looks at me like, oh, Oh, those games in back. Oh, dude. He's like, Oh, those are, Oh, those are junk, man. They're, they're all damaged. They're no good. They're bad. I'm like, well, you know, I could always use the parts. And then, you know, it turned out to be good, but I'm glad people, I'm surprised those games are still in there. You know, obviously those people that were running that place out had common access to this area. And a lot of their stuff was stacked over everything, construction stuff. And it was just, obviously they didn't see the value, you know, or that stuff had been long gone. yeah yeah no that is that's a lucky stroke actually they just didn't see the value and it didn't care anything about it you know thank god those pinball people in fact i'm from that same operator i missed a funhouse at a star wars by like two weeks in fact he gave me i mean the next time i went there to get more games he actually handed me a funhouse a back glass to translate and oh here you go you can use the glass on your medieval i'm like oh cool i'm thinking why didn't he do that but he didn't want to bother i guess and uh and he and i asked him well what happened to the funhouse oh i gave it to a neighbor or something it was bad it was no good and and and and all that in the star wars i'm like well where are they now and it's like well last time i saw him they were in his front yard he was gonna junk them i'm like oh whatever you hear stuff like they go oh cringe please don't tell me this stuff so i'm i assuming it got parted out i try to follow up and ask them but there was there was you know it's gone i try to get it but it's i don't know what happened you got a good haul out of it so you know yeah i saved the games that were there and that's what I was happy about. Yeah, no doubt. And they're all still working now. So, that's cool. Yeah, everything's been, you know, is in process of being built or finished or... I think the Demoman is still in process.
    41:01
    But everything was saved and not parted out or... Right on. So, you got any tips for anybody wanting to route games?
    41:13
    That's tough. Don't. I hate to, every time I read, I'd read threads on Pinside about all the pitfalls and basically everything that always came up, you know, don't do it. I just don't want to have that same attitude to people. But if, if you buy games and you're able to fix the game all by yourself, no matter what it is, and you're really good at soldering and you know how to do board work and, you know, and you have some head for business, at least some, you know, sense or have some business experience and then maybe, and you have a vehicle to transport stuff and, and you don't want to have a life. Yeah, go for it. Especially if you have a 40 hour a week job like I do on top of doing this, you know, it's, you know, you're going to work weekends and it's, you're going to have to be really passionate about it, you know, but I would, you're going to need some experience first. I wouldn't just run out and do this, but we're starting to see that more and more that, you know, you go on pin side, you read threads about, you know, collectors that have turned, turned part-time operators and, you know, It seems good for many people. I mean, there's many people in the Bay Area that do that, that isn't their full-time gig, myself included. So if you've got skills or you know people that have skills, then you're not going to get rich on it, and you want to – it's something you want to try, but it's difficult. It's different than collecting or having a game at home. If your game at home breaks, so what? I'll fix it when I get to it. But if you have to have commitment to that location, That's who you're working, you know, you're part of that business. And if your game goes down, I mean, that's going to affect that business. And if you don't have a lot of spare parts or, you know, you've got to be able to fix that game or have another game that you can go replace it with. And, you know, that's happened to me a few times where, you know, I just can't fix this game. And then I take it home and I fix it in five minutes. And that's another thing about routing stuff that nobody really talks about. Fixing a game under pressure on a location is much harder than a fixing game at home. Because there's no pressure at home, but when it's on location, you have to either come in at odd times when they're closed or you don't have that option. A lot of times when I do a service call, I don't have that option. I have to come at late hours and hopefully it's not too busy.
    43:31
    Especially a good location, a crappy one probably won't care as much, but a good location that's earning, they're going to expect that game up and running.
    43:40
    So, I mean, people have to realize that, that it's, you know, to these businesses it's not just for fun for them. This is, you know, this is, you know, for their business, and their game has to work, and it's not always an easy thing.
    43:53
    Right. To deal with. Yeah, no, exactly. But you know what, man, we really appreciate, you know, guys like you that are still out doing it. You know, so thank you. You know, because otherwise there would be no pinball on location. I mean, there's a lot of good operators on there. operators out there, and I'd just like to mention a few. There's TJ.
    44:11
    That does a really good job, Joe, like we've mentioned before. There's so many in the Bay Area. I don't know them personally, but there's quite a few in the San Jose area.
    44:23
    There's quite a few good ones out there now. When I first got into this in 2010, that's the change I've seen. And, you know, I know those people probably existed, you know, before I got into it and did this. But that was more what you heard. Now we're starting to see all these good locations in Concord now. You're seeing a lot of locations, you know, and sometimes there are business owners that are, you know, using their back room, whatever, to put games because they're into it or, you know, they've added to their business, which I think is great. Yeah. No, it is great. I know there's another pin sider out of, I want to say Vacaville. Lauren, I believe, is around. Yeah, I work with him. He's a separate business, but, yeah, we have issues. We'll help each other. In fact, that's who got the demo, man. Oh, cool. Good, good. He really cares about his games.
    45:22
    He does an excellent job. His location in Davis is the pizza place. God, I can't remember the name of it now. Oh, Woodstock's. That's it. That's an awesome place that's been there a long time. And so he has a really good location there. And I think he has a place in Sacramento as well.
    45:39
    I think it's Dad's. I think that's his location too. Is Dad's his too? Okay. I think so. I think that's his as well. Yeah, I haven't been in there in a long time either. So I've been meaning to get back there. It used to be back in the day they used to route.
    45:53
    They always had either two or three EM games, and now they're running more modern stuff. In fact, I think he had a taxi in there for a while. I think the EM stuff was the owners, and then when Loren started operating there, I think he brought, you know, he'll operate older stuff. He has System 11 stuff, and I have a few System 11 games out there. In fact, I don't mind routing those because those turn out to be really reliable. I was really impressed with those games, especially considering how old they are now from the 80s, and it's just. Those things are the workhorses of pinball, man. like games like Taxi, Pinbot, Whirlwind. I have Taxi and Whirlwind out there. Yeah, you just – I mean, once you get them up and running, man, they'll just go forever with basic maintenance. I was talking to Mario – I can't remember his last name. I think he used to be out of Hollister. I think he moved to Tennessee now, and he operated over there in Hollister for years, and he operated a brand-new, back in the day, Elvira and the Party Monsters, And he said he hadn't – I don't think he had touched it up until a couple years when he sold it. I mean, just on basic maintenance, it just was that much of a workhorse. All the electronics, everything was just untouched, you know.
    47:01
    He said he had never shopped. I mean, he just replaced stuff as he went. It just went for decades. And that was just – that's really amazing those games would go that long.
    47:11
    Right, right. No, that's a testament to the manufacturers, you know. I mean, they had a good system and it worked well. So that's all the questions I really had, but we have our top ten for the night, which is top ten games that you like to see en route or on location. So you want to go ahead and start from ten down to six? Number ten is Roller Games because I love the 80s theme. It's a Steve Ritchie game. It's great flow, shots and sound. It's a game you – I don't think I've ever seen one on location. Hopefully mine will find its way on location eventually. but obviously people aren't really crazy about that theme, but I think it's a catchy, catchy theme. And it's a, it's a tough game. It's fun and it's not easy. And I like games that kind of beat you up and are very challenging.
    48:03
    So that's my number 10. I don't know how you feel about that one. I've owned it. So is our co-host slash engineer, Seth. Good game. I actually have seen one on route and played one on route some years ago. at a laundromat in Paradise, California, which is just northeast of Chico. So I actually have seen one on location before. But, no, you don't see them on location a lot. Good choice. So what's your number nine? Number nine is Pinball. It's a game I don't have or I've never owned yet. And I just – I think the museum has one. At least they did in their lineup a while ago. I just don't – it's not a game I've seen in the Bay Area over by me in Sonoma County or in Sacramento. I know there may be one out there. I haven't seen it, but it's just I think that's a really good iconic pinball game. I love the original theme. Great choice. I've owned one as well in the past. I have a couple of friends that still own them, but no, you never see those on location anymore. That's a shame. Yeah. In fact, there's a commercial. I forget what. I think it's for, I don't know, it's arthritis or some product. I was just seeing it Was it yesterday They been playing it a lot I don know if it Enbrel or something like that And there a really nice restored pin bot that pretty prominently featured in the commercial Not just background but you know you get to see the bottom of the play field and the side And it's pretty obviously what game it is. And it's really nice. So that's cool that we're seeing pinball in kind of a mainstream format.
    49:29
    Even though it's for arthritis medication. Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, me too. That's awesome. All right, so what's your number eight? Number eight is Sea Witch.
    49:41
    Oh, good choice. If that's mine, I might eventually put that out there. If I get this deal that's, you know, if I can get this multi-game deal going here in Sonoma County, I'll definitely try to get that in there. It's a game that's really fast. I mean, the art is really cool, and the 70s toy sounds do it for me. I mean, that's what all my toys sounded like when I was a kid. I have two friends that own that game, and that's a phenomenal game, and I know more people, I know so many people that will kill to have that game. So, yeah, it'll do very well en route. And then number seven is Doctor Who.
    50:15
    It's the same thing, you just don't see that. I like that show. I mean, I started getting into the show a couple years ago. I think TJ invited me to a Doctor Who season opener or something, and I've pretty much liked it ever since I went to that a few years ago with the doctor we have now, the one that's leaving. So I started watching it with him. Yeah, my wife actually turned me on to it because she's a huge fan of the show. And I like the game too. In fact, I have a fellow collector here in Sacramento. I almost got one, but I couldn't quite come to terms on the price. I got close.
    50:50
    But that's when the pinball price is just pretty high. It gets to the point on some games, just like I mentioned earlier, if you're going to spend $3,000 plus for a game, I've got to spend 50 hours on, and then I've got to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on parts.
    51:09
    It just doesn't make sense to me most times. The game's finished and I've got to pay a going price. I don't have a problem with that. I mean, that's when we put the time and the game is done to a level that's worthy of a going price. That's how I look at it. Then I would pay that price. But, I mean, people want $2,500 for unshopped and barely working.
    51:31
    It doesn't really work for me. yeah yeah no doubt so and then your number six uh creatures from the black lagoon it's a game that uh it was at fanny ann's when i when i first got there and it was barely working and people still complained when i took it out wow i mean if people oh i used to go there and play it for lunch it's beat the hell and everybody used to tell me how beat up it was it's like well that's why i pulled it out of there and my plan was to get it rebuilt and brought back, but it just... I got most of the parts for it now, but I just haven't had time to put it all back together. I tore half of the parts, bought all the parts, and redid all the ramps and everything. I just haven't had a chance to finish it.
    52:14
    So that one's been, what, three years in the works? So eventually that one will get finished and find its way on location again. But there's just so much on that game. There's probably too much on that game, but it's just... I love the theme. I love the hologram. Everybody loves that theme. And it's one of those games that you don't see it on route often enough, but it's a game if it's playing well, man. People will put money into it. Yeah, because the new stuff, you just don't get that many features. You just don't get that now with the newer game. Well, some games you get close, but it's just – and that's kind of why you don't see it now because the collectors have all snatched them up for any operators that still have them. you know, because operators, you know, with a game like that, there's so much to maintain and, you know, and now they're worth so much money.
    53:04
    So. Yeah, exactly. So number four is T2. And that's a game I remember playing when it was brand new. I played it at the Scandia in Rohnert Park back in the day, and that's always been a good location. In fact, when I played it then, they had a whole back wall full of games, and those games, from what I remember, they had like a firepower, but I can't remember too many others other than that one because I wasn't really a pinhead back then but I just remember their stuff being really nice and I would have played more of them but even T2 it would just beat me up it would just take my money but I remember playing it brand new which is cool I like memories like that of playing something brand new or when it came out originally so and that game holds up it's fun there's not a lot to break the skull sometimes has issues with that drop target. I've had a failure there, but that's an easy fix.
    54:00
    Yeah, a buddy of mine, I have a couple of friends that own that game, and one of my buddies had trouble with his, and I fixed it for him. It was a couple of years ago. He's like, yeah, I don't want the balls to just keep going in there and not doing anything. I'm like, all right, let me take a look at it. It was a loose wire off the lug, you know, and on the coil, and just re-soldered it. Boom, it was up and running in five minutes.
    54:23
    Yeah, it's amazing how bad operators did on soldering. I don't know. I'm sure you've bought many games. It's like, what were they using for a soldering iron? Or were they cleaning the tip? Or were they using crappy solder? Or they just don't understand how you've got to get it hot enough to flow into the lug. And I was always amazed to see all the poor repairs when you buy a game, you know. Oh, yeah.
    54:45
    And then number three is Adam's Family. And that was fun. I got to finish that game. I got to play it at home for quite a while, and it's a lot of fun.
    54:55
    We'll see. Yeah, I've got that on my list and Terminator 2 as well. And number two is Funhaus, and I have mine at Santa Rosa. So mine is – it's been routed for years. It's about ready to get pulled and get like a quick shop. So it's been going for – I had that early on, so you probably – it's been on location for at least three years, but I probably shopped it five years ago. That one isn't on my list, and it should have been because I love that game. You hardly ever get to – the only time I really ever get to see or play that game anymore is at shows. I do have a friend, a local collector that has one, but he's loaned it out to another friend that's in Southern California right now. Just got a new reproduction play field put into it too. So it's supposed to be getting that back soon. So I haven't played it in too long. And what's interesting, on my fun house, I actually played this game when I was probably a teenager at the Scandia in Cordelia. So I actually got to buy a game I played as a teenager. Of course, years later, I bought it. And, of course, only half of it was working. Yeah, but that's awesome. But to actually get that game, I got really lucky. A friend of mine knew the people that owned it before. Golfland owns it now. And this was before the big pinball craze. Yeah. And I was able to, for a reasonable price, not like the barn find price, but a reasonable price. And, you know, my wife barely let me have the game in the house. It was just so black and dirty. I mean, the ramps were just black. Playfields just covered. I mean, Rudy didn't work at all. And all he would say was, how about a hot dog all the time? Because I know the Switch Matrix was screwed with, didn't work right. And they did some word hacks on the CPU board. And it was a mess. Yeah, I spent at least 80 hours on that game At least And that's not like a playfield swap That was all original game, just getting everything to work It was a day one Mylar game So It's a really nice game, I mean there are very few that are unfaded And so far mine's still unfaded Even though it's on location So far it's stayed pretty nice It's not getting beat up or anything That's another misnomer I hear From collectors, you talk to collectors and they just look at you Funny like, what do you mean you're going to route your game What do you mean you do that And like I'll have a game I'm finishing up at home and a friend will come over who's a hardcore collector and he'll play it. And I thought, oh, yeah, it's going over here soon. And he knows what I do. He to this day, it's still he still looks at me like, why are you doing that? You're just this place so nice. Why would you think of doing that? And it's like, well, they'll still play nice when they come home, you know, and it just still look nice. I mean, I, you know, take care of my stuff and the locations I put stuff in, you know, I've taken care of my stuff, you know, so it's all worked out so far. Yeah, this is a common thing that comes up in conversation. I tell people – it's like I got a – people that live around the block from me, their kids play with my kids. They're like, you got to help us find a game. I'm like, okay, cool. And they're looking to spend somewhere in the $1,000 to $1,500 range, and I was honest with them. They're like totally cool with that.
    58:03
    So they're like, yeah, if it has a multiball, great, or if it doesn't. We just want a fun game to play. That's what we tell people. You get the high-end collectors, and that's great that they can buy all the new games and keep them pristine, and that's nice. But it's like you can go out and – I mean I just – the last two purchases I made were an $800 The Black Rose. It needed a little bit of work. I mean I had it fired up and running that night as they had wired the start button in backwards.
    58:38
    And it played. It flipped, and most everything worked on it. And cleaned it up, put a few new parts in it, and good to go. Well, that's a score. I just bought it from – Yeah, it's hard to do. Yeah, right? Exactly. That's a Craigslist score too, man. So they're still out there. Yeah, right? They're still out there. They're just not out there as much, and they go pretty quick. You've got to be fast, but they're still out there. But, you know, networking local collectors. I got a real nice Gore guard for $600 from Cheddar, Eric, locally because he bought it in a bulk buy. And he's just out of the room. It's like friend price, man, $600. And it's like sold. And I mean it's got – the cabin is real good. It's got wear on the play field. It's got a little bit of wear on the back. That's just not terrible. A little bit of planking on the play field, but overall still good. That's what it comes down to. It plays great. You know, and yeah, I mean, it plays fantastic. I mean, he cleaned it up, shopped it out, put new rubbers on it. The Player 4 display was bad. He replaced that. But I mean, you know, $600, man. I got a good, fun, working game, a game I played when it was a brand-new game as a kid in the arcade. We're actually in a bowling alley. I used to ditch school to go play. I used to ditch junior high to go play that game.
    59:54
    Yeah, and I got caught ditching junior high to go play that game. So that's one of my great juvenile delinquent pinball stories. But it's like if you have the money to go spend on a brand-new box game or a limited edition or something, that's awesome, man. If you can do that, God bless you. And if you can't but you can spend $600 and find an old beater game and play with it and have fun, do that too. It's all pinball and all good. That was my whole point. If you have that, cool. If all you can do is spend, find the $600, $1,000 games, $800 games, when you find them, grab them up, clean them up, fix them up, and have fun with them. You don't have to have the highest end, and you can still have a lot of fun. That was my whole point to that, but that's what I tell people. So I got my top ten, and these are games I just always enjoy playing for whatever reason, if I can find them on location. Number 10 is Whitewater. It's a game I always enjoy playing. It shows, or if I find one on location. I don't know if I ever want to own one, you know, but I always enjoy playing. It's just a fun game, fun team. My number nine is Terminator 2. If I owned it, I would probably get tired of it kind of quickly.
    61:11
    Doesn't have the deepest role set, but it just, I mean, that's one of Steve Richie's best to this day, and I always have fun playing it at a friend's house or on location. It's really rewarding, especially when you make the 25 million jackpot. I mean, it's really rewarding when you can hit that target in multi-ball when it's moving the targets with the cannon to make that shot. You're right. It's not very deep, but it's very fun.
    61:36
    It is. Great, great, great team integration. Great use of the theme. You know, it follows the tenets of pinball. I heard Pat Lawler say once years ago, says a good pinball game is three things. it's easy to learn easy to play and hard to beat yeah i agree with that and i think some of the new games that we're seeing now don't necessarily follow those tenets and some do some don't and i you know i agree with that star wars i was playing star wars today with uh adam you know adam uh and uh he and i met down at coin off we're playing some star wars and i keep complaining every time we get together anywhere i piss and moan about star wars because i want to love it and i can't For that reason. You're in the exact same position I'm in. I couldn't agree with you more. I've played it. I mean, I like the shots, but I don't get it, honestly. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. It just seems convoluted.
    62:30
    I've got to hold this button. I can't push this, or it changes the bonus. It just seems like it's got, you know. Yeah. I'd rather have games with interactive toys. I'm more, you know.
    62:40
    But it has to kind of work, too. I just don't want a bunch of toys on there that don't do nothing. I kind of, you know. It's tough with that one. I'm sure that license was very expensive, and I think Steve was probably limited on with the theme and that license on what he could actually do, but I'm not exactly sure. I think so too because, I mean, he's capable of amazing stuff. Well, Terminator 2 is a perfect example. Easy to play. The rules are easy to figure out. Oh, I know what to do. Shoot here. Easy to learn. Easy to play. Hard to beat. My number eight is Indy 500. there used to be two of those on route near me when I was still up in Chico area, it's just a fun game man, it's just a fun shooter it's fast, it's not terribly deep ruleset, I just always enjoy playing it and you don't see them on route very often, you don't see them anywhere very often I think there's one in Penaluma, if you're ever in that way, I'm sure it's not in great well I shouldn't say that, I haven't seen it for a while so I don't know what kind of condition it's in it's at uh pinky's pizza it's an operator that's local to penaluma as that and some arcade games but i last i heard it was still there i'm not sure on condition probably not great but uh yeah that's a game i i've played it a few times i'm not really familiar with it but yeah it's just it's just not a game you see you know anywhere really i don't once in a while you see that shows never you hardly ever see that on location yeah yeah you don't see them at shows too often either once in a while no yeah fun one i actually had the opportunity from a local route off in chico to buy one for 1400 and i didn't do it now i'm kicking myself in the head yeah that was that was oh seven eight years ago that's why back then that would be a tough you know that might be a tough sell now it's no brainer but back then i might have been that's a little steep yeah yeah exactly you know and they're gonna clean it up shop it out but yeah you know, live and learn. So my number seven is junkyard. Cause I played yours when you had it a lot. Um, and that's the only place I played it once or twice to the show, but most of my time on it was spent when you had it at Fanny Ann's and now over, uh, Joe's got it at coin off. And I really liked that game. And that's another game. You just, you know, Lauren has one, but I don't know if he's going to route his or not. So you may see another one.
    64:54
    I don't know. Cause obviously Joe still has that one there. So yeah, I played it today. Which was fun. My number six is Revenge from Mars.
    65:07
    Up in Chico, that was one-on-one location for quite a while. I used to play that a lot. You still see a pinball 2000 game once in a blue moon, but just another fun game, man. I like Attack from Mars. I like Revenge from Mars. It's neat. It's quirky. It's fun to shoot.
    65:25
    And again, you don't see them on-around too often. My number five pick, I actually see, for a while, I don't think they made a lot of them, but I would see pop up on Route quite a bit in my area, both in Chicon and here in Sacramento. I don't see them now, but that's Ripley's Believe It or Not. I think one of Stern's most underrated titles. It might be getting a little bit more love these days, but it's just a lot of really deep rule set, fun shots, interesting. Yeah, I never see those on Route. I mean, I've only seen him at private collections and shows once in a while. But, yeah, it's a good game. I like that game. I don't know a lot about it. I've played it a few times. It's definitely deep. It definitely is a fun game to play. It's really tough, though.
    66:10
    Yeah, it's a really tough game, but a lot of fun. And good risk-reward on that. My number four is Getaway, the high-speed two, just because it's just, you know, it's classic Steve Ritchie. brutally fast. If it's set up right and playing well, it's just a blast to play. Joe had one for a short time at coin-off, and I put a few bucks into that, and he moved it out for other stuff, which is okay. But if I can get my hands on one to play it, I sure do enjoy it. You can play mine at Jasper's at Rancho Cordova. It's probably a little bit of a drive. I live in Rancho. That's yours at Jasper's? I keep getting over there, and I never deal and i live yeah i don't know how much longer it'll be there but yeah is yours is yours at the one on uh um coloma i think that's what's that yeah i think so yeah right yeah right down the street that's it sports warehouse i drive by there literally every day my office is like three blocks from there i just i took my kids in there and had burgers me and my wife and kids probably two years ago. I mean, the place was okay, but I don't think it was in there at the time. It might have been. I just... No, it wasn't. That's only been there maybe a year or something like that. Yeah, because I remember there was a video game like a Street Fighter or something.
    67:33
    Yeah, that got pulled out to put that in there. Okay, cool. Well, I'll pop in there because I literally drive by the place every day.
    67:39
    There's other crappy games that aren't mine, though. Okay. So if you see those, you can tell they're not mine. There's a crane machine there and then the getaway a pinball as mine. I don't know. Is that even listed in the pinball map? I don't know. I believe it is. I'll double check. It should be. If it's not, we'll put it in there. I know. I literally drive past it to and from work every day. That's a good route game. I like that game. I've had two of those. In fact, I had two and I didn't want to trade my other one but I had an opportunity to buy an Addams Family, another one from that same guy who had one on location and the only way I could get only way I could save the game because the guy was like well the owner of the place well you got to put a game if you take this pinball you have to bring one here and I'm like well I got another one I'll trade you straight across for this you know broke down Adam's family that don't work and he was really he was really happy about that so he got it ready to go you know I'd been on location this thing was dialed leds whatever you know so he made that trade straight across and so I didn't want to sell it but to get an ad as family i was like that's a no-brainer no no doubt no doubt good trade my number my number two is uh i'm sorry my number three is nascar um doesn't get a lot of love um but you know what man i just i like playing that game you know it's it's to me it's fun it's got a little bit of everything you know it's got real basic simple you know design uh pat waller design but um not his usual he kind of went more of a real straight ahead you know a layout um it's got that short track which is kind of a kind of a tighter horseshoe with spinners um it's got drop targets two ramps basically all the basic stuff of pinball nothing out of the ordinary like the main toy feature you got the track um the garage zips the ball yeah in the garage you know It's with a little pace car or whatever. That one's okay. The track's fun. I just always have a good time playing it. I liked it until I bought one.
    69:41
    I hear they're a real nightmare. Oh, God, I couldn't get rid of that fast enough. In fact, I got rid of mine. I traded it with a home collector for an unshopped Jurassic Park, and that's the Jurassic Park that was at Wicked West. So he was happy. And that Jurassic Park. Yeah, he was happy with the NASCAR. In fact, he wants to trade me for something else. And I was like, yeah, but I don't really want the NASCAR anymore. I just didn't have a good experience on routing that. I had it a few places. It did okay at Fanny Ann's. It did all right there, but it was broken way too much.
    70:12
    Well, yeah, I put a few bucks into it a few times at Fanny Ann's. The last time I remember seeing it there, I got a game and a half on it, and then something went wonky, and then I turned it off.
    70:25
    Yeah. Yeah, I could keep that game going. Broken wires was really common. broken wires was the big thing and you know the amplifier boards broken wires and it just you know i was just i was done yeah my number my again anytime i see one if it's if it's playing correctly or you know yeah even if it's filthy man i'll put a couple bucks into it my number two is stern star trek um i i my personal opinion on this game is this the best game steve richie's ever done as far as layout. Every shot is like butter, as smooth as glass, and I just have a blast playing it. I like the theme well enough.
    71:08
    I think this is the best game he's ever designed as far as layout goes. Some people argue, but man, it just plays smooth. Whereas the Pro, the Premium, the LE, it just plays great, and I love playing it. It's one that is really just not in my budget right now. I've got too many other irons in the fire with kids, so I have to go find one on location to play and so whenever I can I do same with my number one pick is Adam's Family unless I fall into some really great deal find somebody's got one they don't know what they've got they're willing to sell it really really cheap it's just not my budget I mean a beat to hell router one usually goes for around 6k now and that's it's crazy and it's just you know it's a game that I'm not going to buy it took me years to find one literally a few games that took me years to find it took me a couple years to find a bsd and then it took a couple years to find adam's family just to find you know to get one at a reasonable price or so it just doesn't make it didn't make sense to spend that kind of money where i could buy a brand new stern game right yeah exactly and not have not have the technical problems or the you know you can get a brand new inbox turn for the same money and have it on route for what a year without having to do anything except minor maintenance i mean or more you know so yeah that's my uh my top 10 list so you know yes i'm sorry and i never got to my number one i'll just mention that we got to number two uh is medieval madness i know that's probably cliche. I remember playing this game years ago off and on at shows or on route, and I thought it was a decent game, and not until I owned one and put some serious time on it, I didn't realize how good this game really is. I mean, the call-outs alone really helped make this game, too, and the theme is great, and obviously the exploding castle is pretty cool, but the sound and the call-outs really are one thing that kind of helps set this game apart. They're just so well done. And it's just a blast I mean, I've been playing it for a few weeks now And it just doesn't get old It's got tremendous legs on this game It's really fun Just kind of like how Attack from Mars is the same way It's just a blast to play Yeah, you know, those games There's a reason they're as popular as they are No, that makes perfect sense I mean, you know, now with the reissues You know, you get to see them a little more en route But I mean, around here in Sacramento I mean, you don't see you still don see medieval madness coming up on route You just don you know um you see well one place uh coin op has a original attack from mars but i mean you know in our little area and even further in more you know rural areas you know you're not going to see a medieval madness on route very often you know they've all been snatched up by private collectors i might be able to be convinced to take one over there at some point i might do it let's see what my wife pretty much said that says that's her game And the minute she saw it, she pretty much claimed it. So I'd have to convince her, you know, maybe I'll do it, you know, just for the fact that there isn't any in Sacramento. So I might be persuaded to do that for a time. We'll see.
    74:25
    Yeah, well, you know, six months, you're down the road. Maybe she'll get bored of it and want to play something else. Just to have it over there. That's another reason I like to, when I try to choose to select a game, especially for Fanny Ann's, I try to keep it something that's either a good route game or a game that Coin Up doesn't have. Or I try to keep it different. to some degree, as best I can. Or it's a game, like we say, I just don't see it. You know, for whatever reason, you know.
    74:50
    And lately, Coin Off's been just doing mostly modern games. And some older ones, but that's, you know, it seems to work. And the stuff is really nice over there, so.
    75:02
    But it's still good to have two locations nearby each other that have good games. Because there was hardly anything. I think I was it when I started in May of 2013 there. It was pinball was nearly dead. It seemed like other than some movie theaters or what. Exactly. If you looked at the pinball map, it was like, well, what's going on here? There's, I don't know, a million, two million people in this huge area, and there's just hardly any locations. It was, I think it was like 40 games or something like that. Now, I don't know, is it 70? I forget what the number is now, but it's still not the markets, I don't think, being filled. unlike San Francisco, Oakland, Alameda, greater Bay Area. I mean, there's a lot of games over there. It's huge, and it's just not enough in Sacramento. I see people posting on the NorCal Pinhead thread. They live in Chico, and they're bypassing Sacramento and driving straight to the Bay Area nearly every weekend to go play pinball.
    75:58
    They're willing to make a three-hour drive each way, a six-hour round-trip drive, three or four-hour each way, sometimes an eight-hour round-trip drive to play pinball. for three or four hours. And that speaks volumes, man. And so I think, I don't know. I'm not, you know, I think it's, you know, coin ops seems to be doing pretty well. You know, your location of Fanny Ann's is doing fairly well. I think there's room for more out there. Oh, I definitely think that, yeah. You just got to get it out to people. So we're talking about what's new, what's new and going on in games. But there's a little bit of stuff going on. We're kind of teetering with the holidays upon us. But we've got probably the biggest news lately has been the new Pirates of the Caribbean game from Jersey Jack. That's just getting everybody's attention.
    76:50
    Any thoughts? My biggest issue with the Jersey Jack games is right now is price. I mean, they're definitely full-featured. They're gorgeous. They're built really well. And they seem to have a lot of their growing pains in terms of the architecture, electronics. They seem to have most of that pretty much covered, and they've made some changes since they did dialed in.
    77:11
    I don't have a location that would make it worth it to put one in. That's my biggest issue. It would almost have to be in a high-earning parkade to even think about it. I know Joe doesn't have any JJP games at the moment. I know he did have a Woz for a while. So, but, uh, and he had a dial on loan and, uh, what I heard to the grapevine is he wasn't going to buy one because it wasn't, it just wasn't, it wasn't getting the play that the others were getting, you know, people would pass right by to go play Batman or Star Wars. Yeah. Because it's the theme that hurts it. But I mean, that's a really good game. I remember when that game was coming out, I was at expo 2016 and, uh, everybody was kind of talking about it. There's so many good games there and so many new games coming out. And I was like, I don't know, it's a cell phone game. I'm not into that. That's stupid. And then he brought like five into the show area, and all of a sudden I looked at it. Oh, let me play this. And then I was like, okay, now I get it. This is a really good game, but as a route game, the theme is going to be the biggest issue. And that's a shame because it's one of my favorite games to play. When it was at Coin-Op, man, I played that above everything else.
    78:21
    I think it's great. It's the best monitor integration that JJP has done. And maybe, you know, I think Aerosmith is a good LCD, how they've integrated that, you know, the interactive play between the display and the game is really good on that game. And I think it's the same case with Dialed In. The way they've done it is it doesn't take away from the game. They work together very well and enhance the gameplay. And it's not a distraction. I mean, it's very well done. And I can't say that for The Hobbit or Woz. I just don't like the way those, how information is displayed. I don't think it helps the game. It just makes it overly, it's just too convoluted and complex, and you can't really, you know, I don't think it adds to the gameplay. But I haven't really paid a lot of attention to the new Jersey Jack game, the Pirates of the Caribbean. I've seen some brief videos and some pictures, and it looks cool.
    79:17
    But, yeah, I don't know if we're going to see too many of those on location. I don't know if TJ has one I don't think he does I'm not sure I don't know if you know anybody in the Bay Area that's getting one or has one or I don't know are they even out yet or is it not I don't think they're in production I think they're putting them like they did with Dial In I think they're just putting them on test locations right now I could be wrong I haven't been keeping up at all I've had so much family stuff going on you know I hear you I hear you.
    79:49
    Yeah, that's another thing with the Jersey Jack games. It's like, you know, for all the complaints Stern gets on Pinside and everywhere, it's like, you know, they announce a game. Well, I know I'm going to be able to buy it in X amount of time. I don't have to play the, well, I don't know. I make a preorder. Maybe I'll get it then. Maybe I won't. I mean, I like the fact that, you know, once it's dropped and, you know, there's some information on you, call your distributor. Yeah, production run's coming this time. And you're going to be within weeks of when they say they're going to have your game. And, you know, you send in your money, you get a game. It's just I don't like the guessing game with some of the other manufacturers. You know what I mean? I just need, you know, I never got into the whole preorder thing. I never lost money doing that or sending money and didn't see a game for two, three years. I just, you know, I don't want to play that game. And, you know, I know a lot of people did, and some people lost big. So I'm not into that. Yeah. You know, I really look forward to playing it, But this is the feedback I get when I talk to people that not a lot of operators, not in our area anyway, are going to put some money into it. They're going to put some money into a Stern Pro that they can get a quicker return on their investment. Yeah, and it's half the money. It's half the money. Depending on which model of the parts you get, I don't know. What is the basic game, $8,500 plus shipping? Yeah, you're in tax and shipping. You're in almost $9,000. And I think it's more inadvertently, I think Jack's really pushing more towards the home market. I know he wanted to go with the operator, but at that price point, man, I just don't see it being a viable option. I think he kind of got pushed that direction, whether just by economic forces or his ability to produce X amount of games within a time period. I don't think he really had a choice. I decide, you know, it's just what little information I have and what I've seen. It's just. There's certainly, like you said, there's certainly, you know, they're fun, they're creative, they're beautiful, you know. Yeah, they are. They're stunning. Honestly, those games, when you see them, they're just like, wow, this is, the quality is certainly there. But, you know, they put a coin door on the front of a game for a reason. That's kind of how I look at it. And, you know, it's still an earning piece of commercial equipment at the end of the day. and you know just like when i guess the mmrs don't come with coin mechs it's like you know none of these collectors ever want to route their game but you take the coin mech out people will complain i mean it's still what it is yeah what's up with that i mean everybody just losing their minds over that like my god there's no coin mech it's like you're gonna put it on location well no god no i'm never gonna play it i'm just gonna you know talk to it and polish it with a diaper you know i guess it's a pedigree it's almost a pedigree to be a commercial you know what i mean I guess that's part of it. But yeah, I thought that was kind of strange too.
    82:33
    So I think that had to do with because when you buy those coin doors, they don't come with CoinMex. I think that's just how they were purchased. I know I got one from Pinball Life when I was at their open house, and that's how it came. So I'm assuming that's probably, you know, they had to spend more money to get CoinMex and manufacturers. It just seems kind of a cheat thing to do and leave those out, but whatever, especially when you're charging a premium for the game. But that game was, I don't think it was really intended to be a commercial, you know, operated game, especially at that price point. And I didn't think it was going to be, but obviously there's some out there. So, yeah. But those games made money from what I hear. I mean, for Deck, for years, I mean, that was a high-earning game. So, if you have a certain location and, you know, that does really well, I mean, maybe it's, you know, it's worth it to you to put it on location. to spend you know eight thousand dollars yeah who knows you know um you know i'm looking forward to playing it though you know hopefully somebody will put one on location or either we'll be playing at friend's house or it shows um alien i guess those are shipping now i'm just i'm just shrugging my shoulders with that one i hope everybody gets their game i hope it gets out i hope it gets on location i hope it does well but you know it's just there's been so much like with so many of other startup companies, there's been so much controversy. And let's be honest, man, people have just lied. They've taken people's money and lied to them. And I just can't get behind that at all. Basically, when a new company, when they put out a game and they're shipping it in boxes and they're not taking people's money until they deliver a game, then I'll pay attention to them, listen to what they have to say. Until then, I'm not even going to pay attention anymore. So that's a game I really wanted to buy. That was introduced at the Expo in 16, and I met Ulrich. He's on Pennside, and he did the art for it. He was a really good guy, real friendly. I talked to him for a few minutes there, and that's a game. I think even Joe mentioned that was a game that he wanted, and I know I wanted one. But I have that philosophy when they're shipping, I'm interested, and when they're not, I'm not. And the game wasn't finished then, but it played okay. The shots seemed a little strange, but it had so much going for it. I mean, the theme was huge. It had the alien in the back that at the time it wasn't working, but that was an interactive toy that hadn't been activated yet. I mean, just the look of it. It had the game over call out. I mean, that was cool. And the way they did the monitor in the bottom was the motion detector from the movie. The way they integrated that, I mean, it had so much going for it. And then everything kind of fell apart business-wise with the owner. And I think that just turned a lot of people off. And then people still had their money out there.
    85:27
    So I don't know how many sales were lost because of that. I mean, it looks good. But I wish that was their first game and not the full throttle game.
    85:41
    So I don't know. Have you played that game? Yeah. Yeah, I played it at Pinnagogo the last two years. It's been there, and I really like the game. I'm lukewarm on the theme. I don't hate it, but I don't love it. But man, I like the shots. I really like that game. And if I had the money, I probably would have bought one with the exception of now I'm hearing horror stories about people who have the game. Parts are breaking on it or something's not working right. And they can't get any tech support. if they can't get any help. So they sit in with this, you know, really cool game that's not working now. And that's more of like, Ooh, you know, um, you know, like other than, you know, Jersey Jack and of course Stern, the only other company that I would look at and go, I would spend my money there would be spooky because, you know, those three companies obviously are shipping and producing games on a regular rotation. They're backing up their products or their customer service is good. I mean, you know, they're, they're solid companies. They're on solid ground and, uh, And they're all respectable people. They're active in the community that we've gotten to know either firsthand or through someone that knows someone. They've got good reputations.
    86:54
    Everybody else, which is on to After Alien – and I love the scene too, and I love to play the game. I love to see the game. I love for it to do well, and I hope it does, but I'm not optimistic. crossing over from that one up next is that I have this big Lebowski which why anybody would even listen to anything these two clowns have to say anymore is beyond me I mean they just they screwed the pooch and shot themselves in the ass so many times you know over and over and over which is really a shame because when they initially debuted their prototype everybody you know me too wow because it looked really cool you know everything that we're doing and they're showing a real somewhat finished product. That's something, guys. Good job. Now get it into production and get it into people's hands. There's people I personally know that they owe money to that have been waiting for their game for almost three years now. They don't have their game. They don't have their money. Yeah, exactly. Especially when you've dropped nearly $8,500 on that three years ago. Some people $10,000. It's a shame too, but that's just another thing that I just keep looking at. I haven't kept up with anything going on, anybody talking about it. They said, there was an expo and they talked. Great, they talked. Did they give people their money back? No. Did they deliver the game? No. It's been three years. You know what, guys? Either get something going or just fold your tent and go home. That's kind of where I'm out with that um as a houdini um love to tell you it played great i tried to play it three times at pentagoga last year uh it broke down and i would be the next person in line each time and each time i would be the next person it would go down on them so um but i mean it was an early prototype so i'll give them the benefit of the doubt they haven't asked they haven't asked yeah i have high hopes for that company in that game i got to play it twice at pentagogo and it's fun uh you know So if anybody, you know, I mean, that's one company I've heard that, you know, definitely has a shot and it's not a fly-by-nighter, you know. So hopefully they'll get that game sorted and get it shipped and that'll work out good for them. And like you were saying with Spooky Pinball, I'm really impressed, you know, from where they started and where they are now. You know, Charlie, you know, has stepped up and is a man of his word and, you know, produced good games and shipped them and has supported them and continues to build good games. So I hope in the future, I mean, I've heard him talk and say that, you know, they definitely want to have more games on route and to be, you know, have a game they can operate, you know, that's more operator friendly in the future. So hopefully I can, you know, get something down the road and put on location that they produced.
    89:48
    Right, right. Yeah. No, Total Nuclear Annihilation, you know, that's haven't seen one in the flesh yet. Haven't had a chance to play one. Hope to. soon.
    90:00
    I'm sure we will. Everybody, universally, is speaking very highly of that game. So I think that's going to be a good shot for them.
    90:10
    I'm curious to see how that would do en route. I mean, obviously the collector community or the hardcore player community loves it. It looks cool. It's definitely kind of a mix of old and new, and I like that. I like the no ramps and old-style score displays along with LCD and And, you know, some cool play field features with the drop targets.
    90:35
    Yeah, I like that. Yeah, fast and furious, man. You know, grab a pitcher of sodas or a pitcher of beer and grab a couple of friends and just spend a couple hours having a blast with it. I think that's where it really is going to be the strong suit everybody I've talked to, you know, everybody I've heard talk about. It says kind of the same thing. It's like this is a game where you just want to sit down and play with friends. That's a good thing. And that's kind of the magic of pinball, man. I mean, you know, be a complete stranger somewhere and play a game of pinball with somebody you've never met. And, you know, you made a new friend in 20 minutes. So it's one of the bits of magic pinball has. Plus I've heard that he's not closing production like he did on the last game. So, you know, maybe a year from now and something, you know, once he comes back in a production cycle, although that game can be reproduced and that game can be bought again versus the other games you've done.
    91:28
    Yeah, well, there's no, you know, since it's an original unlicensed theme, there's no, you know, and they're friends with the guy who designed it, you know, Scott Tenisi. There's no time clock on it. Yeah, they can, you know, stop production, go on something else. If they have open space and they need, you know, somebody's order of 50 more, they can kick in another small batch. I mean, all the R&D is already done on it, so all you have to do is order parts. I hope to play it soon. I don't know if there's one on location yet. I haven't heard. I don't know. I haven't checked the pinball map.
    91:58
    I've heard just rumbly there's a couple of people in the Bay Area and a couple of Sacramento people are going to be buying it. So I'll keep you posted if I hear anything. I'm sure you will too. So, yeah, that's what's new, the news of game news. Our game of the week, our game of the show, Terminator 2, I think we kind of covered them already. I mean, we pretty much talked everything about it, but you know what, man, it's a good game. It can still be had relatively cheap, right in the 2K range, because they made it.
    92:32
    You know, they are still kind of hard to find. I know many people try to get one for a while, but yeah, they are relatively inexpensive, but I guess compared to other games, I guess it would be somewhat easier to get, but it just seems like a game that a lot of people, when they're a collector, first become a collector. It seems like one of the games that people really go after. And lately that's made this game harder to find.
    92:56
    Yeah, new collectors you'll swap after. Well, you know, like you said earlier, it's user-friendly as far as not just playing but working on it. I remember seeing in the, some time ago I was watching one of the videos on the production video that But Williamson did, you know, to give out to the distributors and stuff. And that was one of the things that Steve Ritchie was focusing on when talking about the game. He tried to make it really operator-friendly where, you know, it was easy to work on in the field and that it was going to be reliable in the field and on location. So, yeah, you open up the hood on that thing and it's not too terrible underneath there. It's a fun game man and it's a great shooter You know and it still does well On route it does well in people's homes And it's I think that's really It's an affordable classic so if you're Somebody new in the hobby and looking for That you know a 90's era Williams Valley Williams game That you can enjoy for a long time man Terminator 2 would be at the top of my list And I think the Valley Williams games are Probably so attractive of the collectors, obviously, how fun they are and how good they are. Another thing is just the parts. The parts availability on any of the 90s games, for the most part, even the game-specific parts are so readily available now. Even when I first got it seven years ago, back then it wasn't as good as it is now. If you even compare it to some of the Stern stuff, early 2000s, Williams stuff is still more available than that stuff in terms of game-specific stuff. in terms of plastics or some, you know, I mean, it's easier to rebuild these games, you know, than some of the stuff that Stern did, you know, 10 years after the fact.
    94:54
    Yeah, right, right, and aftermarket parts. Seth, our co-host engineer, who's not with us tonight, he just bought a beautiful Terminator 2, absolutely stunningly beautiful, with a lot of aftermarket mods. and you know it's got the T-1000 mod that sits above the middle of the stand up targets it's got the yeah yeah it's got a bunch of it's got a custom yeah it's got a custom lighted mod on that yeah he's got a bunch of other mods he's got the I-mod so he's got a bunch of other custom one off mods that are real cool but yeah I mean you know that's the thing Original factory parts or aftermarket factory-type parts or then custom mod parts are just in abundance on most of those era games. So you won't have a problem finding new parts for it. As well as just the standard general parts like coils and flippers and all that. All that stuff is readily available.
    96:01
    So that's our game of the show or game of the week. Do you have anything else you want to add? Any shout-outs, thank yous? Just, you know, last thoughts.
    96:12
    Just shout out to my wife, Shelly, for putting up with this pinball hobby and business for all these years. Right on. You're a lucky man.
    96:20
    She's made it all happen. That's awesome. Yeah, anytime you have a spouse who's supportive of our crazy little hobby, that's a wonderful thing. So, you know, awesome for your wife. Shout out to her.
    96:34
    Cool. Well, it's been great having you on, man. I'm glad you came on the show tonight. I'm glad I'd be a part of it. Yeah, no, it's good to have you. It's always good to have just regular folks like yourself in the hobby and that are doing something really important and special, helping keep pinball going and getting it out to the masses. So my take is a shout-out. I'm going to thank all the wonderful people that sponsor our local pinball league, the Capital Corridor Pinball League, and I'm going to name them by name. So it's Adam Pressler and the Neth family and the Bannister family and Michael Hosier. And all you guys, thank you so much for opening up your homes to all of us local Sacramento area pinheads on a frequent basis. Thank you for that. And shout out to my co-host and engineer, Seth, who's absent tonight, but will be back real soon. And a big, big thank you and shout out to Mark Scoff out of Reno, Nevada For making that wonderful theme music Well, I want to say one more time, thank you, Steve, for coming on and hanging out with us tonight And it's been episode 11 of the Spinner's Lit Pinball Podcast You can listen to us on iTunes, SoundCloud, and what's the other one? Acast thanks again for listening play pinball keep America strong
    98:18
    you Thank you.