I was thinking, with this isolation, players are going to be way better than before if they've got a game? Well, there's always this constant argument, right? The barroom hero or the basement man-taped hero versus going out and playing in a tournament. It's a little different. What makes it different is the settings, too. So if you have games set up pretty easy at home to get to these wizard modes, yeah, you're going to have a nice smack of reality when you get out and play in competitions. Yeah, I mean, I always go by what Jorian Engelbrecht said. I think it was at Chicago Expo or something, I think. He said learning to play tournament pinball is actually, it's a trainable, practicable thing, like a skill that you can do, not just like flipper skills, but you have to learn to play in a tournament. Because that same thing, people can be really good at their local bar, their home, or wherever, but when you're in a big tournament and the money's online and your ball's trapped and you've got to make a pressure shot, that's a whole different thing. We were talking before we started recording, as we're Skyping right now, you were looking at some of my games, and you and I are in the minority. Oh, yeah, your collection. You saw The Simpsons and love it like I love it. A lot of people don't get that game. Yeah. You don't have to sell me on it. That game will never leave my house. Oh, yeah. If I could find one I could own for a reasonable price, I would get it and never sell it. Yeah, it's basically just super deep. A lot of shots, a lot of options, cool toy. I mean, great theme if you like The Simpsons. Great sounds. Yeah, the whole package. It's a great game. Have you gotten to the end on that one, Jeff? Have I gotten to the end on that? I haven't even completed Alien Invasion. What? Come on. No, I get to the five balls. I can't lock all five. I've tried staging. No. I completed ACDC Simpsons Next. There you go. I think I've done it twice. Jeez. Definitely once. Alien Invasion or the whole thing? Alien Invasion. Okay. I completed it. Maybe twice ever. The whole thing I've gotten to within. everything completed except for three out of five super jackpots. And that would have done it. So the super jackpots, in my opinion, is the hardest thing to do. Again, another thing watching Carl. I'm going to have to get Carl in here and we'll have to talk about this because I say players are going to get better. Guys like Carl are going to be just ridiculous. Oh yeah. Well, I always tell people too, you know, Simpsons is kind of what kind of elevated my play from a level where I was kind of stuck maybe like B and then I think into A. I remember for starting, I would watch Dean Grover, Adam Lefkoff, Donovan, and those guys. We'd play a four-player game, and they would get like $20 million, $30 million. And that blew my mind. I was like, wow, how do you get $20 million, $30 million on Simpsons? So I was getting like $3 million, $4 million, $5 million, $10 million maybe. I thought it was a huge score. Now it's like you've got to get $200 million, and then maybe I'll blink an eye. It is a great game. Zen, the reason I wanted to talk to you is, well, one, I miss you and all the other pinball players. We certainly compete quite a bit, and you're a fun guy to be around. And you went through some hell just recently And a lot of us are certainly feeling the impact Hopefully it not physically Hopefully it not mentally or financially but you got hit hard and you and your wife both contracted COVID-19. So I remember when Tom Hanks got it. That was the kind of first hit home thing. Oh, I know that person. Well, a lot of people know Nick and others that have contracted this, so maybe this will give it some perspective that this is a bloody serious pandemic, and you went through hell, didn't you? I mean, yeah, it was a rough time dealing with it. I'm glad to be, thankful to be better recovered. But, yeah, it wasn't really as a severity during it because definitely other people have worse symptoms. Luckily, mine were pretty mild comparatively. But just the length of time, you're just so tired and achy and you've got fevers all the time, pretty much lack of appetite, I didn't want to eat. Thankfully, no, I didn't have any cough or lung issues. But, yeah, you just stay sick. That's the worst part. Like, you think you'll be better. You're like, come on, come on. It's already how many days? I got to be better. It just keeps, it's still there. What was the first symptom you felt that something's not right? Like I said, I think it was definitely, I mean, definitely fever. And then, like, muscle aches. Like, you know, why am I so achy? I didn't do anything. And then, yeah, loss of appetite and the lethargy, too. You just, like, you feel like you're wiped out. Like, you're like, what happened? I didn't run a marathon today. Why am I having no energy? And I'm usually, like, you know, bouncing off the walls. But for me, when I am, like, can't get up or don't want to get up, it's a big deal. So you're really kind of limited. There's not much you can do. And then to make things worse, your wife also contracted it, and you also have a young daughter. Yes. So what's going through your head at that point? Well, I mean, we pretty much, my wife and I got the exact same time. And, you know, our biggest thing was just to keep our daughter safe. So I just quarantined her in her room basically for 14 days, which is tough, you know, because you want to talk to them and see how they're doing to make sure they're, you know, still staying well, you know, physically and mentally. But, yeah, then you're just trying to keep everybody safe and healthy as much as you can, you know, taking whatever medicine you're supposed to, staying inside, you know, washing your hands, keeping us up. It's funny, me and my wife would cook with, like, a mask and our gloves on because even though the food's cooking, you know, you're still afraid of contamination some way. I've heard of a lot of people and friends of both you and I and the pinball community in New York City that have gone through hell. I'm hoping the worst is behind us, but I get the difficulties. I get that it sucks that we are eight weeks now home. We're getting hammered financially, mentally, hopefully not physically, and that's why we are home. And I just think, you know, whether it's you, me, losing our shirts money-wise because of lack of work or whatever the case may be, All the money in the world doesn't buy you great health. So that's kind of the foundation. I want to stay healthy. We'll worry about the rest later. What's your perspective on this when you see concerns about, you know, we got to get back? Yeah, I mean, you see people and it's just almost unbelievable the way they react and stuff. I mean, as somebody who's been sick, you know, I had this thing and I knew the reason. So it's, you know, it's real close to home. I can understand for some people that maybe don't know anybody that's had a case or don't see anybody. so they might have to tend to overreact. But, I mean, yeah, just think about all the terrible things that people have had to live through. I mean, staying home in your awesome 2020 place where you have how many screens and you have access to infinite entertainment and information and you can get food and whatever delivered to your door. I mean, people in the past, through whatever wars and terrible things that humanity has went through, they've had to do all that, but no electricity, you know, or no sanitation. I mean, it's kind of silly the reaction that people are having, in my opinion. Because like you said, if you're sick, you don't have your health, then nothing else matters. Going back to when we were first talking on this podcast, you talked about, as a young man, going to China. And one of the things that really, really upset me was calling this the China virus and the incorrect inaccuracies of comments that were made. You've spent a lot of time in China. You met your wife there. You started a family because of your time in China. I have yet to go. Tell me your thoughts about what's going on in China and this inaccurate perception. I think it's always going to be, you know, it ends like that. Just from the time I lived there and the time to hear, you know, I'd see like a news report from home would say something. And then the Chinese news report is exactly the opposite. You know, so it's always, you know, one guy is the good guy and one side, the other guy is the bad guy. That's always a portrayal. And the truth is somewhere in between. but just I think racism is an easy escape or easy scapegoat for people so it's probably a shame that they've maybe never been out or met other people or know the difficulties of life I mean I probably learned more in five years in China than I did in all my time at school just from how difficult life can be to how wonderful people can be in a tough time so there's different kind of people everywhere good and bad and China the people there are no less think what you want to think about the governments I don't love American government. I don't love a lot of governments. But that's something aside from it. I think that's a lot of people have a hard time understanding is sitting aside a government, a country from people, right? Exactly. Like if it's just you're Joe and he's Tom and there's Karen, every country has that. You're just living your life. You're not involved in major decisions of these kind of ramifications. So the disease happened, unfortunately. That's where it started. People want to think what they want to think about how it started. and unless you're like a top scientist and you've had empirical evidence of what happened, then I don't think you should speak. But I guess people get antsy from staying in their room watching TV and whatever all day for a month. Yeah, that was the one thing I was kind of hoping when we were asked to stay at home and were asked to not be a burden to the health care workers and the hospitals and let them prepare for this pandemic. I thought maybe we would all be in this together and a little less selfish. And if we all are healthy and if we're all going to be able to survive this, we have to work together as opposed to me, me, me. And unfortunately, some people don't think of the ramifications of what this can do to others, like yourself, like your family, having to go through this horrible, horrible COVID-19. And we can do better as people. I was hoping. I still think we can. I think a lot of us are, but we're not out of the woods yet. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you see a lot of good stuff, but with the bad and vice versa. And, you know, all you can do is, you know, try to talk to people that, you know, are within your network of people and be like, hey, you know, be smart, be respectful. You know, there's a lot of people that are really suffering compared to what boredom is, which is basically the symptom that people that are complaining about. I mean, I'm a father and I'm sure you know, too. If my kid comes to mind when I'm bored, I'm like, you have every access to every kind of entertainment and information ever. And if you tell me you're bored, that's insulting. Because we had to grow up with books and phones and we weren't given everything. So you learn to appreciate what you don't have. You've got a roof over your head. You've got food in your belly. You've got clothes on your back. Yeah. Boredom is nothing. It could be a lot worse. Yeah. I do feel for the kids too, because it's a different perspective and there's the more mental aspect for the kids too. But we'll get through this. And thank you for sharing your insight of what it did to you and your family to maybe let people kind of realize you know this is something you don't want to wish upon your worst enemy let alone your friends and family sure definitely and i think it's a good thing to know too the we were talking about earlier is the the difference of symptoms from person to person so like uh i think we were saying that you know most people think it's uh coughing or something wrong with your lungs or shortness of breath and my wife and not neither of my wife or i suffered uh any kind of shortness of breath or lung symptoms. But the fevers can do damage too. So, I mean, that's certainly not something to take lightly. Oh, yeah. I mean, everything else was horrible. But just that was something I was surprised because, you know, that we were positive because they said that's one of the initial symptoms of it. Zen, I'm glad to hear you're on the road to recovery. And I hope the same for your wife and family as well, too. And hope to see you safe someday very, very soon. Also, likewise. I hope everyone stays healthy, happy and at home. And let's get through it. Next pinball tournament. You got it, Nick. Thanks very much. Yeah, cheers, man. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com, including the new RSS feeds, all past episodes. Find us on Twitter and on Instagram at pinballprofile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. And don't forget to check out our Facebook group. I'm Jeff Teolas.