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Episode 53 - Banana In The Tailpipe

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·40m 50s·analyzed·May 21, 2019
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

SWL covers Stern variants, Spooky/JJP updates, introduces Multimorphic correspondent Ryan Claytor, and launches Monday Twitch streams.

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb discuss recent pinball industry news including Stern's Catwoman Batman 66 variant and new color Premium Munsters option, address Jersey Jack Pirates of the Caribbean playfield issues, feature Spooky Pinball's Bowen Cairns addressing Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle criticism, introduce new correspondent Ryan Claytor covering Multimorphic P3, and promote their new Monday night Twitch streams featuring live gameplay and community hangouts.

Key Claims

  • Stern released a Catwoman-themed variant of Batman 66 with only 100 signed cards as a limited element

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb discussing the Catwoman Batman 66 release

  • Stern is now offering a color Premium version of Munsters after originally releasing it only in black and white

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb discussing Munsters premium color option

  • Spooky Pinball is addressing criticism about Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle modes not timing out and the game ending after defeating Alice

    high confidence · Bowen Cairns (Spooky Pinball) addressing criticism on Special When Lit podcast

  • Jersey Jack's Willy Wonka special editions are expected to ship in June/July 2024

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell citing Jack Butler's previous podcast appearance and July 4th timeline

  • Jersey Jack is experiencing playfield issues with Pirates of the Caribbean due to posts being pushed in too far

    medium confidence · Bill Webb referencing a Pinside thread about Pirates playfield issues

  • Multimorphic P3 uses a modular back-third playfield design with swappable modules and an LCD screen in the lower playfield

    high confidence · Ryan Claytor explaining P3 technology during his correspondent debut

  • Special When Lit is launching weekly Monday night Twitch streams featuring gameplay and live podcasting

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb discussing their new Monday night Flippin Out Pinball Twitch stream

  • Ryan Claytor co-authored 'Coin Op Carnival,' an illustrated publication about electromechanical pinball and arcade games with Nick Baldridge

    high confidence · Ryan Claytor's self-introduction as new correspondent

Notable Quotes

  • “I wish there was more prevalence of Catwoman on that artwork. When I heard that this was going to be a version, I kind of envisioned the whole pin being re-skinned with like some dark purples and blacks and then having kind of Catwoman all over that with a touch of Batman.”

    Bill Webb@ 1:27 — Captures collector expectations vs. reality for themed variants

  • “I don't want to see pinball players making decisions where their best choice is to hold the flipper for 30 or 40 or 120 seconds waiting for something to end.”

    Bowen Cairns (Spooky Pinball)@ 10:50 — Designer intent regarding mode timing and player experience philosophy

  • “It's interesting that someone would say the game is full of brick shots all the time while also saying that the game is too easy to finish. Those things don't go together at all.”

    Bowen Cairns (Spooky Pinball)@ 11:43 — Critiques contradictory feedback about game difficulty

  • “The P3 is a multi-game pinball platform... sort of like a Nintendo Entertainment system of pinball.”

    Ryan Claytor@ 20:46 — Clear explanation of P3's modular concept for new audiences

  • “Once you lay your hands on it, you are going to think otherwise... this is real physical pinball.”

    Ryan Claytor@ 21:44 — Addresses common skepticism about P3 being 'video pinball'

  • “It started to be like a little podcast hangout. We had a lot of pinball podcasters that popped in on that stream, and then it was just kind of a hangout with listeners and with podcasters as the stream was going on.”

    Ken Cromwell@ 23:53 — Describes organic community building through their Twitch initiative

  • “People were asking Josh questions, and that was fun... Just genuinely a good time.”

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBill WebbpersonBowen CairnspersonRyan ClaytorpersonJerry StellenbergpersonJosh KuglerpersonJack ButlerpersonNick BaldridgepersonGeorge GomezpersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern released Catwoman Batman 66 variant with limited signed cards (100 units) and is now offering color Premium Munsters after initially releasing black and white only, suggesting end-of-lifecycle inventory management and potential test marketing for future variant strategies.

    high · Ken and Bill discuss Catwoman being a 'last-ditch effort for sales' and Stern 'drumming up' sales on aging game; color Munsters premium launched after black and white, contradicting initial product planning

  • ?

    product_concern: Jersey Jack experiencing playfield issues with Pirates of the Caribbean (posts pushed too far), indicating ongoing manufacturing quality control challenges across the industry.

    medium · Bill Webb references Pinside thread about 'Pirates of the Caribbean owners having some playfield issues because of posts getting pushed in too far'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Spooky Pinball's Bowen Cairns defending Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle's design choices (no mode timeouts, game ends after defeating Alice) as intentional narrative-driven design, not bugs.

    high · Bowen Cairns: 'I don't want to see pinball players making decisions where their best choice is to hold the flipper for 30 or 40 or 120 seconds waiting for something to end' and 'once you do that, what else is there?'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Ryan Claytor joins Special When Lit as new correspondent covering Multimorphic P3; first interview with Jerry Stellenberg (Multimorphic founder) scheduled for next week.

    high · Ryan Claytor introduced as 'Mr. Ryan Claytor,' describes his background, and commits to weekly P3 coverage; Ken announces Jerry Stellenberg interview upcoming

  • ?

Topics

Limited edition and variant strategies in pinball manufacturingprimaryPlayfield quality issues and manufacturer responsibilityprimaryGame design philosophy and rule criticismprimaryMultimorphic P3 platform and modular pinball conceptprimaryCommunity engagement through Twitch streaming and podcastingprimaryCollector vs. casual player prioritiessecondaryUpcoming game releases and shipping timelinessecondaryPinball media partnerships and correspondent relationshipssecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.72)— Generally optimistic tone about industry developments and new initiatives. Hosts are enthusiastic about correspondent additions and streaming expansion. Some mild criticism of Catwoman variant execution and concerns about manufacturing quality issues, but overall constructive and forward-looking. Strong community sentiment about organic engagement and mutual support between podcasters.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.122

0:00
coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on pinball land and welcome to episode number 53 wow 53 episodes man we're getting we're getting up there of the special when lit pinball podcast my name is ken cromwell I am Bill Webb. And again, for those of you that have been following the pinball news, you've probably been slightly bored.
0:32
There's not a whole lot going on as we wait for games to be announced and to be manufactured. But Bill, I thought what we would do today, if you don't mind, is jump around a little bit. We have no show notes. We're just going to kind of speak from the head or shoot from the hip, so to speak, and see how it goes. I like it. I like it. I wanted to start real quick with Stern Pinball. And as we know now, last week we speculated that there was going to be a Catwoman-themed Batman 66 machine that Stern was going to go ahead and release, and it did come to fruition.
1:03
So they are offering a Catwoman version of Batman 66. Did you get a chance to see the artwork? I did. I wasn't too... I'm not going to use the word impressed, but there was a little more that I felt like would have enthralled me with that game. I mean, it was a little lackluster. I just wish there was more prevalence of Catwoman on that artwork. Understandable. I think the exact same thing for myself. When I heard that this was going to be a version, I kind of envisioned the whole pin being re-skinned with, like, some dark purples and blacks
1:37
and then having kind of Catwoman all over that with a touch of Batman. If you look at some of the Batman 66 banners that are out there, you'll see there's, like, the version with Batman and Robin and all the guys, the Riddler and the Joker on that banner. And then you've got like the women of Batman 66 pinball, that banner. I was kind of hoping for something closer to that with Catwoman. And it didn't happen. And I don't know that what is offered really entices me. As somebody that has been interested in Batman 66, a Catwoman version would appeal to me

Bill Webb@ 23:45 — Positive sentiment about first Monday stream with Josh Kugler

Spooky Pinball
company
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Multimorphiccompany
American Pinballcompany
Batman 66game
Munstersgame
Alice Cooper Nightmare Castlegame
Willy Wonkagame
Pirates of the Caribbeangame
Oktoberfestgame
Flippin Out Pinballorganization
Special When Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
Pinsideorganization
Canada's Pinball Podcastorganization
Coin Op Carnivalproduct

content_signal: Special When Lit launches weekly Monday night Twitch streams on Flippin Out Pinball channel combining live gameplay with podcasting; first stream with Oktoberfest and Josh Kugler drew multiple other pinball podcasters into chat, creating organic community hangout.

high · Ken and Bill extensively discuss positive reception to Monday night stream; 'It started to be like a little podcast hangout. We had a lot of pinball podcasters that popped in on that stream'

  • ?

    product_launch: Catwoman Batman 66 variant is not a limited edition but a regular tier variant with only 100 signed cards; color Premium Munsters now available as standard offering.

    high · 'That's not a limited version either... I think the only limited version of that is that I think there's 100 cards that are signed by the actress'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Multimorphic P3 platform features modular back-third playfield with swappable modules, dynamically updating LCD screen in lower playfield with floating physical elements (flippers, slingshots) and opto detection system.

    high · Ryan Claytor detailed explanation: 'modular back third of the playfield, meaning you can swap in various playfield modules in a single cabinet' and 'The lower part of the play field is comprised of a dynamically updating LCD screen'

  • ?

    community_signal: Multiple pinball podcasters participating organically in Special When Lit's Monday Twitch stream; hosts note strong community engagement and genuine vibe, suggesting healthy podcast ecosystem collaboration rather than competition.

    high · 'we had a lot of pinball podcasters that popped in on that stream' and 'it was very genuine. It was like a hangout'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern's introduction of color Premium Munsters reflects potential dissatisfaction with previous tier-based approach; hosts speculate color variant should have been offered at launch to prevent customer frustration with tier choices.

    medium · Bill: 'if they were going to do that they should have done that up front because all the people that bought a black and white that didn't foresee the future of having that option available to them, now have a game that they might not want'

  • ?

    product_launch: Jersey Jack Willy Wonka special editions expected to ship June/July 2024 based on previous Jack Butler podcast comments about July 4th timeline.

    high · Ken citing Jack's previous appearance: 'by like july 4th that would be like a commemorative day for people to remember the holiday and remember that that games are already in people's homes'

    • 2:08
    if it was tastefully done. But to kind of change the head decals, implement her prominently on the Translight and then have a signed card. I don't know that that makes me want to switch versions. How about yourself? No, not really. That's not a limited version either. So, I mean, it's not. I think the only limited version of that is that I think there's 100 cards that are signed by the actress that played Catwoman in the series. All right, but okay, so let's just spin that wheel of speculation here. So let's just say that they're getting closer to the end of the run on this game.
    2:40
    Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but let's just pretend they are, and they're drumming up last-ditch effort for sales. to move whatever parts they might have on hand. Not that I think that Stern carries a lot of them, but I would have almost rather seen a Joker version of the game with different artwork. Like do 200 units, 200 Catwomans, Mr. Freeze, King Tut or whatever. You've got the Riddler. I mean, you've got a bunch of people. Yeah, do like 200 or 300 versions of each of those, man. That would have been really cool because at that point,
    3:11
    If you did 200 versions with five characters, that's like 1,000 kind of limited edition pins that you had within a run. And all you really would have to do is print new decals. But, I mean, that is going to put a little bit of, I would assume, tax the artist maybe a little bit, because Franchi, who was on this, would have to have like five different versions of one pin. Okay, well, let's backtrack this a little bit, okay? Let's say 1,000 units of the villain game, you know, and you have all the villains on the cabinet. Yeah, that would be cool, too.
    3:42
    Or maybe just Batman and Robin on the head, you know, like chasing after them. The thing is this. I wonder if you could do this. Like, so, for instance, if you have a Batman 66, is Stern limiting the head decals and the Translight purchases? Whereas could somebody buy those new head decals, peel the old ones off, put the Catwoman one up, and then just kind of swap their Translight and then have a Catwoman version? Is that something that you can order? If they're not LEs, I would assume that that stuff can be purchased in the Stern store. We can reach out and ask them. I know limited edition pinballs from Stern, they do not sell items or parts that are only featured in the limited edition.
    4:18
    So, for instance, you couldn't go out and buy a limited edition plaque or limited edition armor for your pinball machine. I mean, you're not supposed to be able to do that. No, and as someone that's been in that predicament with Transformers. Oh, that's true. You have an LE, and you've been looking for parts. Well, yeah. I mean, I had a Transformers LE that was in Hurricane Sandy, built a cabinet, and powder-coated everything underneath. It's still kind of a standstill because I've had other projects, but I wanted a new play field for that game. And honestly, the hurdles with that game was I had to have an original play field off of an LE to turn in
    4:50
    so someone wasn't taking a pro and turning it into an LE and calling it something else. So if it's not an LE part, which, by the way, was quite the ordeal to try and get that. You remember the struggle. I do remember that whole thing. That was like a six- or eight-week struggle. Yep. So, yeah, I don't see that being possible on an LE. but if they're all just premium decals yeah i could see that totally working you know so yeah we'll see about the again they're not charging anything extra so i guess that's kind of nice i mean if you want that version of the game you can get it i was just really i guess thinking that it was going to be a little more uh pronounced catwoman throughout the cabinet not just on the
    5:24
    head and the uh translate but it is what it is you know and it's another version for somebody that likes the game we also check in at stern and you've got monsters that is now being offered The premium version of Munsters was originally a black and white version. And who called that originally, brother? Well, I'll tell you what I called. I was speculating when the original premiums came out and they were in black and white, the color version was the limited edition. And I always thought to myself that I felt like Stern might be leaving sales on the table
    5:54
    for those that did not want to get a black and white pinball machine and couldn't afford a limited edition. they were then kind of forced to go to the pro but if you didn't want the pro because it didn't have an upper play field you just really were i mean a lower play field or a lower play field you were really left with either not getting the game or getting a version of the game that you didn't particularly want so now we see the black and white version which is the premium the middle tier of stern pinball machines is now being offered in a color version of the game which
    6:27
    i have mixed feelings about i'm happy that it's available because for me if i'm going to get a monsters and i want to get that premium i have a color option and i mean that's huge and if i don't want to upgrade to the le or if le's are not available i'm not stuck uh i mean what are your thoughts on that you know what honestly i think that if you were going to do that they should have done that up front because all the people that bought a black and white that didn't foresee the future of having that option available to them, now have a game that they might not want.
    6:57
    And that kind of sucks being on that end. It does. It's a little disappointing. I did think at some point that you would see a color version available, and I just didn't think it would be this soon, to be honest with you. I don't know if this is because of sales or anything like that. I don't know if it's something that Stern planned to do the whole time. Maybe there was just enough feedback from consumers that wanted to get a premium with color that they decided to do it. So I don't know how calculated the move was. And it's not the end of the world. I mean, if anybody's looking to buy pinball machines, especially newer games that are coming out for investments, it's probably not the best idea.
    7:29
    But on the flip side, if you did kind of upsell yourself because you wanted a color package on a Munsters that was then released at a more affordable price as a premium later, I could see where that would be a little bit frustrating. So maybe you see some LEs come up for sale for people that want to get themselves into a premium. Like when I had the LE Deadpool here, it wasn't that I didn't appreciate the LE. I just didn't want as much money for me tied up into an LE, so then I was able to kind of let that one go and get into a premium version of the game, and I just felt more comfortable with myself.
    8:00
    So I don't know. I mean, we'll see. Again, it's not the end of the world. It's just interesting to see that happen, which I did kind of predict a little bit. Not that I'm the Nostradamus of pinball here, but it was interesting and, I don't know, it was interesting to see this come to fruition. It was. I didn't think that was going to happen either, in all honesty. See, one thing I could say, though, is that I really wish that if they were going to do something like that, I wish they would have done it up front. I mean, here, everyone has their own business plans and plans of doing things at different times and whatever.
    8:31
    But as far as I think that we knew, there was never going to be that option of having a premium with a color play field. As far as they knew, maybe it wouldn't have been something they considered. Now, if the black and white had originally been the LE, I think they sell the 500 or 600 black and white LEs regardless. And then everybody's happy that wants to get that color version on a premium. So, I mean, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's something to kind of put in the back pocket and be like, you know what? Test marketing here. We know what to do next time. We'll see. I don't know if we're going to see another black and white pinball machine anytime soon.
    9:02
    But, you know what? Here. Here's another perspective of this. How many black and white premiums have you seen come up for sale on Batman? Or Munsters? My bad. Sorry. I don't know. You know what? I haven't been looking for Munsters games. So, I don't know. Is there a lot out there or no? I really haven't seen any. So, either, you know, I mean, it's one of two things. either a lot didn't make it in the wild, two, everyone loves it and they don't care about code or anything else, because I know that's the source of contention for a lot of people. They wish the code was a little deeper. Or three, people just wanted to have a black and white game, and they're happy with what they have.
    9:37
    We're going to introduce a new correspondent to the Special Win Lit team here in a second, but first, let's check in with Dr. John over at Spooky Pinball. So we're joined by Bowen for the Spooky Update. I was interested to hear a review on Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle last week and there was some criticism about the modes not being timed so you can get stuck in a mode and the only way out of it is to drain the ball and the fact that when the game finishes, when you finish all the modes and fight Alice for the wizard mode the game ends Bowen any response to these criticisms I don understand why those are criticisms If people don like a mode
    10:17
    maybe we need to work on redesigning it or putting additional things in the game. When someone talks about timing out a mode, what is their purpose? Is their purpose to get to the next mode? In that case, they could have gone to that mode in the first place by selecting the different monster that they wanted to. Yeah, I think it's something we want to look at in rule design. But if I think about the narrative of what you're doing, you're chasing down these monsters, you're fighting them.
    10:48
    You're not running away from them. I don't want to see pinball players making decisions where their best choice is to hold the flipper for 30 or 40 or 120 seconds waiting for something to end. Okay, and what about the end game? So you defeat Alice. can you keep playing after that or is that it? In the current implementation, we again wanted to go with what the narrative of the game says. You're in this castle, you're fighting to get out of the castle and escape with his treasure.
    11:22
    And so to me, once you do that, what else is there? Some years will allow you to go back in again and just continue. you. I personally find those to be, I find that concept to be a little boring because what is it? I don't think a lot of people are finishing the game. I've only heard about one, maybe two people. It's interesting that someone would say the game is full of brick shots all the time while also saying that the game is too easy to finish. Those things
    11:56
    don't go together at all. And so you really have to pick one or the other if you're going to criticize a scene, I think. Cool. I like constructive criticism, but I also like the chance to address it. So thanks for your input, and we'll chat again. Thank you, Dr. John, for your contribution this week. Do you know the background story behind this? What happened? No. So why don't you fill me in and fill everybody else in that doesn't know? So there was a streaming channel that had streamed Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle,
    12:27
    and I guess it wasn't their favorite game, so they offered their critique and their opinions. And this is kind of a Bowen talking to Dr. John and addressing some of the criticism there in regards to Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle not being able to time out a mode. And then the game, I guess when you currently defeat it, it ends, and then addressing some concerns with some tight shots and things of that nature. I guess where I am with it is twofold. One, I think it's awesome that a streaming channel can get on a game, play it, critique it in real time, and then offer their opinions on the game.
    13:04
    And I think it's awesome that somebody from the manufacturing company, in this instance, Bowen Cairns, being the gentleman that was involved with code, is able to kind of go on a podcast and address those concerns and that constructive criticism as well. So I think it's great that both outlets are able to kind of express their thoughts, and at some point, you know, it gives people something to think about. Yeah, you know what? I mean, with the modes timing out, I don't know if I necessarily care about that one as much. I kind of like the fact that when you finish the game, that's it.
    13:35
    It shuts down, and you get your credits for grand champion or whatever. Interestingly enough, the other game from Spooky Pinball that was last released, which is TNA by Scott Denise, when you kill that ninth reactor, that game ends also. There's no more games. So if you've got two people that are up and they're both taking down all the reactors, it's the high score from the two that wins. So sometimes, depending on, I mean, if it's an epic game with somebody else, you're purposely holding back on destroying that ninth reactor if you think that you need to catch up on some scoring.
    14:08
    I don't know how often that has ever happened, but it's a strategy. You're looking at scoring strategies. So you want to finish the game, or do you want to finish the game with the highest amount of points? Two ways to approach it. Dude, gravity always wins in pinball, so it doesn't matter. Yeah, that's true. that's true i do like though that the game ends when you complete the game you know it does force you to become a better player and start you know learning those scoring strategies instead of saying you know like adam's family i completed the house i'm gonna go through the whole house again you know it it makes you kind of forces you to be better in all honesty okay so you like a game
    14:39
    that ends after you've defeated it a pinball game i'll never get to that point but yeah oh you you are selling yourself short you can actually play some pretty good pinball man so you're not fooling me here you let's shift over to jersey jack pinball we're waiting to see when the willy wonka machines are going to be coming out and into homes i think again uh we're waiting i think june is when they're thinking yeah when jack was on our uh making of willy wonka interestingly enough like i was listening to that recently and and i think he even said by like july 4th that would be like a commemorative day for people to remember the holiday and remember that that
    15:13
    games are already in people's homes and they're showing up there so yeah those special editions those are the first ones off the line they're going to be hitting homes june july if jersey jack's on schedule nice yeah there was a thread on them on pin sighted uh about uh pirates of the caribbean owners having some playfield issues because of posts getting uh pushed in too far um so i'm curious to see where that goes you know you don't want to see manufacturers have this kind of issue with playfields anymore especially after the last couple years and things that we've seen But, you know, hopefully that gets resolved and, you know, hearts go out to people that are having these issues and hopefully that they get made right.
    15:49
    Playfield issues are frustrating. I mean, for me, that's probably the most scary part of buying a new in-box game is how is the playfield going to settle in? And I've had instances, most instances, everything's fine. But, I mean, the other scary thing is if something flaws on your playfield, if you end up getting some cracking or some ghosting or, you know, some wearing, some chipping, I mean, when does the manufacturer step up and say, it's not supposed to happen. and we're going to go ahead and replace the play field with a populated play field? And when does the manufacturer say, you know what, that's so minuscule and it doesn't affect the gameplay? We're going to have to ask you to just kind of accept that as general where for your game.
    16:22
    And it's, you know, there's always different ways to look at it, and I don't like thinking about it as much. Another benefit for me to kind of look for used games, because you can kind of get an idea what a play field is going to be doing, I think, after, you know, a few hundred, 500 plays for the most part, or after six months to a year. Not to say that issues don't arise after, but it gives you that little safety net, I think. No, you know what? I mean, crap's going to happen. I mean, let's go back to history here and say the Ghostbusters thing. Stern really, you know, stepped up their game, dude, and I think helped out most people that had issues with their clear coat on that.
    16:54
    So, you know, you just want to see people be made whole. Now, that said, if there's one small nick in an in lane in the back where you don't see, you know, I get it, you just bought a brand new machine, guess what? And spent a lot of money, too, right? Spent a lot of money. Right. You know, bought my wife a brand-new car in October. Guess what? Found the first nick in it a couple days later. You know, it's going to happen. You didn't go back to the dealership and say, this is unacceptable? Well, I might have gotten it touched up already, but, you know. Well, see, you expect some service. You spend a lot of money on something. And at least you know how I am.
    17:24
    I'm such a freaking stickler with the damn play fields. I mean, I comb over them like Terminator 2. You are the worst. I am the worst. Literally, you hear the dun-dun-dun-dun while Ken's staring at a play zone. zoning in it's like oh potential ghosting oh i spent the money to have that that touched up you know whatever um so you know i mean certain things are going to happen per se but george gomez was on a podcast and i heard him say you know do you take care of the guy that has a scratch on the other side of the mdf of a cabinet i mean really when does it go too far now stuff on top
    17:55
    of the play field that's in plain sight and really is detrimental to look at you know then i get it Right, right. No, I understand. It's different for every person because for what I find to be atrocious, like, oh, my gosh, this is unacceptable, the untrained eye will never see. And, you know, the inexperienced collector or the inexperienced player might not notice. So, I mean, that's the other kind of variable. What's good for me might not be good for somebody else and vice versa. But see, that's why you and I are a good fit that way, because literally you'll find a game that has one flaw on a insert or something crazy.
    18:29
    And to me, I look at that as, okay, cool, it's not a perfect game, so I don't have to worry about the play field gets nicked or whatever. They're meant to be played. So if they're not, then leave them in the box. Well, I'll tell you what, Bill. I'm excited and I'm proud to introduce this next gentleman as our next correspondent that's coming on board. He's going to be covering Multimorphic P3 on a weekly basis. Now, again, these correspondents are going to be issuing one-minute, 60-second segments every single week just to get a quick flash of the news at that particular manufacturer for that week.
    19:01
    This segment goes a few minutes, and that's just because he's introducing himself, and he's introducing Multimorphic a little bit to those that may or may not be familiar with what that is. So without further ado, let's introduce Mr. Ryan Claytor. Hi, my name is Ryan Claytor. I'm a university professor, a comics artist, and a pinball enthusiast. You might know my work in pinball from creating artwork for a number of different pinball events, podcasts, manufacturers, and websites. I've created promotional illustrations for Stern Pinball,
    19:32
    Papa, ReplayFX, Pinside, Todd McCulloch, as well as creating reproduction plastics for several wood rail pinball machines for Steve Young of the Pinball Resource. And in recent days, I've also released a new fully illustrated publication about electromechanical pinball and arcade games that I co-authored with For Amusement Only podcast host, technical genius, and great friend of mine, Nick Baldridge. It's called Coin Op Carnival, and the entire publication was illustrated by me. If you're interested in finding out more about it,
    20:04
    you can go to our dedicated website, coinopcarnival.com, but that's not why I'm here. From this point forward, until further notice, or until I offend someone, I'll be the weekly special when lit correspondent for the pinball manufacturer Multimorphic who produces the revolutionary new platform called the P3 Since this is our inaugural segment I thought I briefly explain what the P3 is Essentially, the P3 is a multi-game pinball platform. It looks like a traditional pinball machine in size and shape,
    20:37
    but unlike traditional pinball, it is designed with a modular back third of the playfield, meaning you can swap in various playfield modules in a single cabinet, sort of like a Nintendo Entertainment system of pinball. So it's a huge space saver since you can have multiple games for a single cabinet. And the lower part of the play field is comprised of a dynamically updating LCD screen. The ball is detected via a system of optos so that it can interact with various elements on the screen underneath the ball.
    21:08
    But despite the dynamic screen interaction, I want to emphasize that this is real physical pinball. Not only does the back third of the play field have physical pinball elements on it, but there are actually items floated over top of that LCD screen like flippers and slingshots and targets. And there's a modular system upon which you can even fit more physical pinball elements over top of that LCD screen. So when I've talked to people about the Multimorphic P3 system in the past, the biggest critique I hear is, is it pinball?
    21:42
    and it's video pinball. But I'm here to tell you, once you lay your hands on it, you are going to think otherwise. So I'm really excited to have this platform to talk about Multimorphic and the P3 and what new is being produced by them these days. So I want to take this opportunity to thank Ken and Bill for having this segment. And next week, I'll be talking directly with company founder, Jerry Stellenberg. So until then, this has been Ryan Claytor, your special windlet Multimorphic correspondent.
    22:12
    so uh pretty cool pretty excited to have ryan on board i mean he's accredited he's been in pinball for a long time he's respected in the pinball community and he'll be reporting uh on multimorphic and covering uh jerry stellenberg's platform what do you think of that bill looking forward to it um definitely uh innovative and exciting stuff um and for everybody that's uh listening um jerry was just on uh canada's pinball podcast as he interviewed canada that was released this morning. Well, yesterday, if you're listening to the following day.
    22:45
    So, yeah, I encourage people to check that out. That was actually a really insightful interview. Yeah, no, sounds good. I have not had a chance to listen to it all the way through, but I've spoken with Jerry before in the past, and he's very passionate about what he's doing. And I'm excited for him to be able to utilize this platform to kind of get the word out on a weekly basis because I do think of everything that's going on at Pinball as far as manufacturing and new pins coming out, The Multimorphic platform does offer something that's not only unique, but it's absolutely pinball. And I'm not sure that it's ever really been given its fair justice or its fair due.
    23:17
    So let's see what these guys do moving forward. It's exciting. Finally, we'll finish this off with American Pinball. There's still, you know, Oktoberfest is on the line. And Oktoberfest is in the studio, right? Special Elite Pinball Podcast studio. Yep. Now, we streamed Oktoberfest for Flippin' Out Pinball's Twitch channel last week. And we had Josh Kugler that had come in. And he not only streamed the game with us, but on the stream, we sit down on the mics and we have a live podcast. So you're able to kind of jump in on chat and talk to us as the game's being played. People were asking Josh questions, and that was fun.
    23:47
    The cool thing that I liked about the stream, obviously it was great having Josh here because he offered a lot to chat. But it started to be like a little podcast hangout. We had a lot of pinball podcasters that popped in on that stream, and then it was just kind of a hangout with listeners and with podcasters as the stream was going on. And it was something that I didn't anticipate, but I loved it because I'm hoping. Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah. I'm really hoping that every Monday night. So this is Monday night as we record the podcast. But after we shut this down, we start the stream.
    24:18
    And if you don't know how to do this, if you go to twitch.tv, you just type in the search box one word. It's flip the letter N out pinball. All one word, flipping out pinball. And you can find the channel and you can follow it if you want to. And then when we go live, you get a little notification. and that means we're live podcasting and we're streaming the newest game from whatever manufacturer has out. Right now it happens to be Oktoberfest. So what I'm hoping for is every Monday night it gives podcasters and listeners and viewers just a chance to hang out from 7 to 9 or 8 to 10 whenever the stream goes up for a couple hours
    24:54
    and just talk pinball live. I loved it. I couldn't anticipate that either with how many fellow podcasters jumped in and the interaction and the banter back and forth. Yeah, it was really awesome. And honestly, just the jokes that we see popping across, I mean, it's just genuinely a good time. I know we enjoy it. I mean, I guess that's really the biggest thing is I think if we enjoy it, hopefully everybody else enjoys it. Yeah, and we're not Jack Danger, right? We're not doing this every night, but we do it on Monday nights, and it's a way to kick off the week. And absolutely, go check out Jack Danger.
    25:26
    But you know what? Pop in and check us out, too, if you can. It's just fun. I think we're all on the same page here, just trying to further pinball and the exposure of pinball. And for Zach, it gives him an opportunity to show the newest machines to people that are curious about them. Interested, yeah. Yeah. So it was a fun time, and I can't wait to do it again here in about 45 minutes, actually. Yeah. No, it definitely was a great time, and I strongly encourage people to check it out. And here's the thing. In that stream, the first one in particular with Oktoberfest and Josh Kugler, you could really tell that everyone was genuinely happy to be in that thread,
    25:58
    or in the comments, commenting on it, asking questions. And it just overall had a great vibe to it. You know, it was very genuine. It was like a hangout. It's very organic. Yeah. You know, not forced or anything else. Organic. Listen to you with some lingo there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Organic, meaning natural, not coerced by any outside elements. No, but you know, you listen to some things and they feel so coerced or disingenuine that, you know, and people can, I think, sense that when something doesn't feel organic or genuine or forced or, you know,
    26:31
    Someone's trying to tell a joke, and obviously they've told it wrong. And honestly, it was just a genuinely great night. So looking forward to keep on going with this. Me too. You know what else I'm looking forward to? A little Drain It or Save It? A little Drain It or Save It. It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. Drain It or Save It is brought to you by LearMods.com, offering you quality custom playfield lighting and mods for your pinball machine, L-E-R-M-O-D-S
    27:02
    Visit Lermods.com today. So Bill, the first item for Drain It or Save It today, and I'll throw it to you for your Drain It or Save It, is pinball machines that end once you defeat the final wizard mode. Drain It or Save It. Save It, but I'll never get to it so it works out great for me. Why do you say that? Because I'll never have to see it. You can set it to like 5 ball or 10 ball. Yeah, yeah. On an infinity ball. Right. No, I like it. I think it gives a purpose in a sense and it forces you to become better at actually completing the modes to get
    27:32
    your score higher if you're able to complete the game okay i i'm gonna i'm torn on this man like and i'm trying to think about it there's so many topics or there's so many uh there's so many different ideas that i have to drain this thing and to save this thing i think what i'm gonna do at this point is i am going to drain it and the reason i think that i would probably want to drain it is because if i'm having a good enough game to kind of get myself through that final wizard mode, I probably don't want to stop. I want to continue that momentum with, you know, because
    28:04
    I'm in the groove that night. So I want to capitalize on my scoring. And even if it means starting back to square one, I'm fine with it, assuming that the code is interesting. So for me right now, I'm going to drain pinball machines that end after defeating the final wizard mode. Nice. Nice. All right. So I'm going to come at you with a question too. And this was inspired by some events during the week where I was at a facility that had on this old 80s channel and 80s music, and it was very iconic of the time, just listening to this, sitting there
    28:36
    waiting for a part. And so literally, this question was inspired by a song. So, Beverly Hills Cop. Axl F? Axl F. Yeah. As a pinball machine. Oh, train her to save it? Yeah. I'm saving it. You know what? Beverly Hills Cop, when I was growing up, it was one of those movies where it was funny. It was action-packed. It was still a little bit risky, too, with some of the jokes and whatnot. And being at a younger age, I knew I was old enough to comprehend what was going on,
    29:08
    but it still felt like, hey, I was kind of watching something that might have been a little bit too much for me to be watching. Yeah. And Eddie Murphy, especially in his prime, was just so, so funny. The soundtrack, excellent. Unbelievable soundtrack. And, wow, you know what? I've not heard Beverly Hills Cop as an option, and I think there could be some potential awesome modes with villains, and the soundtrack will be kicking. So, yeah, nicely done, Bill. I'm going to save Beverly Hills Cop, but not Part 2. What do you mean, banana in the tailpipe?
    29:39
    Yeah, right. You got a banana in your tailpipe. You mean Part 3. You keep these bananas. You mean Part 3. Or Part 3. Yeah, Part 2, Part 3, whatever it takes. Yeah. Are you going to drain it or save it? I'm saving it, but here's the reason why, dude. I had to download the soundtracks to that after I walked out of that joint. Yeah, right. Dude, the call-outs. Even three, dude. You've got the Great Six Flags, Great America-esque amusement park in there, dude, you can do some cool stuff with. Yeah. I think it's deep enough that you can incorporate all three and not have it based on one movie,
    30:09
    and there's enough one-liners in that movie that it could be pretty awesome. If you can do Lethal Weapon, you can absolutely do Beverly Hills Cop. But Lethal Weapon, I think, with pin sound and some quotes from Casino. How about Lethal Weapon with a pin sound and just making it Beverly Hills Cop? Actually, that might not be a bad re-theme right there. You could probably re-theme it right to Beverly Hills Cop. Yeah, dude. Hit the start button Yeah that be pretty awesome man So we have to see about that so we both saving that one all right so my third uh drain it or save it for this week brought to
    30:42
    my lure mods.com was something that i pulled off a pin side today and it's in the for sale threads and this is uh you drain it or save it for sale creature from the black lagoon mike d hollow mod for the incredibly low price of $2,250. Now, the Mike D. holo mod was to replace the green holograms that were inside or under the playfield on existing creature from the Black Lagoon machines. Those would fade out. So Mike D. goes ahead and makes this mod that's an LCD mod
    31:14
    that's interactive with modes in the game, making it something that's completely unique to pinball at the time. Now, I think when they were being sold, I believe they were in the $500 maybe $600 range. The problem is now they're on Obtainium, Mike D's version of the mod. But you can get one now if you want for $2,250. Do you drain it or do you save it, Bill? I scale up the pricing, so I'm going to have to drain that. I think the mod itself is really cool. Yeah, me too. But just, I mean, I guess supply and demand, but I mean, that's just kind of crazy.
    31:48
    He does say he's open for offers, though. Well, yeah, but... But, you know, I do have to jump back in on this, though. So, you know what? It doesn't matter if we drain it. 99 people could drain it. All he needs is one person to save it. One person to save it. I'm draining it, too, man. $2,250. I mean, I can go out. I can buy a Lethal Weapon 3 pinball machine. And LED it. Yeah, for $2,250. So I think that's a situation where somebody might be really trying to take advantage of somebody that maybe has the money and just doesn't care and just needs the mod.
    32:20
    because there's always that miracle buyer out there that just money's no object and I need this to complete my game. And if it's $500, I'm buying it. And if it's $2,250, I'm buying it. Hey, man, a whirlwind ram play for me, dude, was priceless a couple weeks ago. Yeah, that's true. Well, too bad it wasn't marked up to $2,250. It might have had a buyer. Might have had a buyer. So for this week's Drain It or Save It, we had end modes for pinball games, stomping the game after the end of the wizard mode uh bill saved it i drained it then we had
    32:54
    beverly hills cop beverly hills cop as a pinball machine we both saved it and then we had the mike d mod for 2250 bucks or best offer we're both uh gonna drain that one a little bit now that said if anyone listening actually buys that mod because they heard it on our show and they went searching for it please let us know i would love to know that we sold something ridiculously priced if that happened or if it actually does sell for anywhere near that you know just go bill wants his commission is cut he wants his uh 10 actually yeah you know that's we're gonna need something
    33:26
    out of this for the advertising no but seriously i mean is it really that far out of hand now with pricing on mods and stuff like that i think that's one of the most popular mods that were ever that's ever been available for pinball but 200 or 2250 dollars is is uh i don't know man i just think that's a little bit dude i saw somebody you know a couple months ago trying to sell their uh red smoke witch mod for wizard of oz for like 700 and i'm like mine came with my game i don't even want to tell you what i bought my game for but if that's 700 dude i mean that really would you know
    33:56
    interesting comparison though too i mean which one is affects gameplay more i would imagine you're going to see that mike d mod do a lot more than you're going to see the the ruby red red smoke mod which i think is an awesome mod so maybe if that's 700 bucks used an lcd that interacts you know with the game on a regular basis yeah you can't still 2 250 bucks you can't make that comparison i mean literally one just goes up and down whatever and obviously the uh um that mod does a lot more so i mean three times the price makes sense i don't know if they actually sold
    34:28
    that wizard of odd red smoke witch mod for 700 yeah that's true but i just thought that was absolutely crazy so no hey just a sign of the times man yeah nutty as it is getting crazy we'll We'll see what happens. So what's going on in Bill's Whirlwind Corner? Oh, so what's going on with Whirlwind, Bill? Got the ramp flap in last week. Dude, I was pleasantly surprised, man. I got a couple of things to finish up on that. The decals that I put on the side, I'm going to get some new ones because I cut them and I could see it and it kind of bothered me.
    34:59
    So those are coming. The inner art blades? The inner art blades. So I want to send a shout out to Tilt Graphics for sure. Definitely help me out on that. Oh, good. And I like recognizing good people that answer the phone on a Sunday when I call because that's when I'm actually doing this stuff. When you're calling around for these mods, do any of these people know that you're working on a whirlwind? Have they heard you talk about it on the show? Has anybody mentioned it to them? A couple people did. Really? Yeah, Brian from Marco Specialties. He's like, dude, you're the guy that's on that podcast, which is kind of cool.
    35:31
    I love that. You're that guy from that freaking special lit show that nobody listens to. Yeah, you guys are like lit when special or something. Right. Yeah, yeah. Specialty. Yeah. So, you know, Tilt Graphics, definitely got to throw a shout out to them. X-Pin, dude, that guy helped me out a lot. With your displays, right? With the displays, yeah. I mean, there's been a few other vendors that have really gone up and done some great things. So we'll definitely make sure to acknowledge that once this project is finished.
    36:02
    So that's almost done. Oh, so I was going to ask, what's your end game with this? So it's going to be done. I know we were going to stream it. Do you have any plans for it? Are you going to bring it to shows? Are you going to give recognition to those that provided parts? Like, what are you planning on doing? So if anyone has contributed to this game, there will be a video at some point of the game being built and all the people that provided product or help with said game. I don't think it's going to make the travel circuit because I'm just, frankly, not in the motivated range to pull that thing out of the basement.
    36:32
    But if anyone's ever in St. Charles, feel free to hit me up and maybe you can take a look at it then. And then, yeah, I mean, honestly, that's about it. I'm hoping to stream it June 7th with a few of our friends, but I think details on that are still in the works. So we don't want to let that cat out just yet. Demolition Man still taking a part. Of course, once I get Demolition Man all the way apart, that's when the part shows up for Whirlwind. So I'm like, what do you do? Yeah, but are you going to finish this Whirlwind in the next week?
    37:05
    I'm hoping in the next week. It just depends on time and family and kids. It's going to be so nice to have it done. I mean, we've been talking about this for too long. Well, no, not for too long. I think so. I'm remembering when we started talking about your Whirlwind project and it was popular, so you posted pics. the pics that we post on facebook for your whirlwind always get the most uh amount of traffic and likes or thumbs up or whatever it is on facebook uh versus just about any other post that we have there so it's it's interesting to see the following i think a lot of people will really want to see it you know in its completion so believe me so do i um and then uh
    37:36
    you know i think the other news is that uh i think i'm ready to let transformers uh the working version i have let go okay so i think i might have bills classified yeah dude i think i might uh put that up dude and see if i can trade it for ghostbusters or maybe a monsters oh yeah so i see that would be i still want to uh i still want to stream a monsters that would be fun so do i um get old dwight sullivan out to to stream a monsters i know streaming is his favorite thing in the world john borg have him come out yeah john said he would come out oh yeah yeah dude he's a
    38:07
    great guy even franchi i don't know if if things have changed with him at that point but he said he would drive out with uh his daughter presley they would come streaming with us when we were still trying to get that done so we could bribe him easy though i think i don't need to bribe him i think if he's just excited to come out we'll just hey dude bribe him with some steak tacos and all is legit yeah well we'll see we have to if we can get him on stairs here uh we'll definitely stream it and i don't know maybe with the flipping out pinball hey channel maybe we do that or do it on our special because we still have our special one lit streaming channel yeah i think games that
    38:37
    are not new that are not going to be sold by flipping out we want to stream on our special one lit so it's going to be back and forth but i'm you know what i'll congratulate when you're done man yeah but it sounds like you're close so that's it's good to hear yeah and so if anyone's looking for a transformers le combo that's uh been played give me give me a shout out yeah you know cool see if we can set something up so i i have nothing for sale right now but uh i am looking for a pirates of the caribbean le if anybody happens to have one that they're looking to uh to part with and uh and i'm waiting patiently waiting for my waka le so gobbling up a little
    39:12
    bit of the jersey jack pinball last two machines by uh my buddy eric minier on pirates and buy mode my new buddy pat lawler on uh on waka well i'm not on buy mode i haven't bought anything yet i'm still waiting for things to be available to buy so um easy to buy when the product's not there which uh as follow-up to last week we didn't get a response from pat lawler on his musical preferences and if he listened to any of the old school raps i will follow up with uh mr lawler and ask him and i was very polite in asking and i also uh invited him out to come check out your whirlwind i don't know if he has interest in doing that but that'd be kind of fun to have him come
    39:43
    out and check that game out yeah that'd be a good time maybe we stream whirlwind with pat lawler how fun would that be hey if anyone wants to see it email us and we'll forward it to pat yeah get him out for a night right because he's gonna want to sell a lot of whirlwinds oh yeah Yeah, whirlwind is on the trending up market. Trending up on market trends. But, yeah, that's good, man. We'll see what happens. And, again, looking forward to it. This is going to be episode number 53 of the Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. Thanks for joining us. You can go ahead and reach out to us on email at specialwhenlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com.
    40:17
    You can visit us on Facebook at specialwhenlitpinballpodcast. And you can find us on Twitch. Don't forget about your coupon code for LearMods. Yeah, what's that coupon code? SWL10. For 10% off, check out at LearMods.com. And with all these new games coming out, check out the mod section. They have a lot of awesome lighting mods at LearMods. Absolutely. Good time. So for Bill Webb, I am Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.