When I get older, I will be stronger. They'll call me freedom, just like a waving flag. And then it goes back, and then it goes back, and then it goes back. Oh! Sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up, sit up. Welcome everybody to the first Canadas Pinball Podcast from the new home in Connecticut. We are replacing like fire trucks and ambulances and honking with the sound of chirping birds and feeling the rays of sunshine. Everybody, I'm super excited to do this episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast. I've been moving all week. If I don't see another cardboard box for the rest of my life, I will be a happy man. But I am happy to tell you I am so excited to talk about pinball. I feel like there's a lot of good energy. I've been burying the hatchet with some people in the content space, which is good. And we just want to get back to talking about this niche hobby we all love. So let's get right to it. Okay, let's go down the horn and talk about what's happening in pinball. Let's start with Jersey Jack. So they have confirmed for us right now that they are making 1,000 units of Elton John collector's edition. And I know that I've been speculating that there is no way a thousand people ordered this game at fifteen thousand dollars a pop. I don't think they made a thousand Godfather CE additions, but somebody asked them straight up. I think it was Donald from this show who's a listener. He's like, look, did you make a thousand? And they said, yes, we are finishing the run of one thousand units. And then I think Donald got really cheeky. He's like, well, how many of those did you sell? And that's a surefire way to get you blocked by the Jersey Jack page. But here's the thing, ladies and gentlemen, I don't think anybody should be upset that they're going to make a thousand units of this game. I think it's a phenomenal game. I still don't think it's worth the money. And if they do make 1000 units of Elton John, that's a good thing for everybody out there who wants this game down the road for cheaper, right? Because it's going to happen. If they made a thousand of these, there's no way they're going to sit bolted into every single game room. People are going to want to move them on because we know some really hot themes are coming. Now, here's the thing though. When I was thinking about this, I'm like, how come, how could they make a thousand of these and yet the conversation on Pinside isn't really blowing up, right? the owner's thread does not indicate that this game has sold that well. And I think there's two things happening here. I think one thing is this. I think the majority of people who are buying these like high end collectible versions of these games, the majority of those people are not wasting their time on pin side. And I think a lot of these games just get sold to people who see like ads for them on Facebook and from their distributors, and they are too mature to go online and complain about or analyze. And even they don't even want to get into a conversation with other people who bought the game. And I think for those of us who go to Pinside on a weekly basis, I think we start to get a false sense of a game's popularity or a false sense of a game not doing well. And I think that is something that everybody has to take into account because these companies don't release numbers. They're not publicly traded companies, but I do find it hard to believe that they sold most of these collector's editions. And if they did, good on them. Again, it is the best shooting Jersey Jack game to date. Now, speaking of Jersey Jack, I'm also hearing the following. I am hearing with very good sort of sources that Eric Minier is who is working on Harry Potter. Here's what I'm hearing is going to happen. I heard this, and again, take this with a grain of salt. I'm not 100% confirming this, but here's what I heard is going to happen. Jersey Jack has a few games in development. So they have like three games in development. They've got Eric Meunier's game. They've got Mark Seiden's game. And Mark's game obviously has been in development the longest because Mark hasn't even had a game come out yet. Remember, Eric had Godfather come out before we got Elton John and then we've got Steve Ritchie's next game and Steve Ritchie just came out with Elton John. So what will be the next three games from Jersey Jack and in what order? That is what everybody is speculating. Now here is what I am hearing. Jersey Jack has witnessed some weakness from Stern Pinball and they want to clobber them. They want to jump on this moment. John Wick is a Sales failure. And it's not just John Wick. When I get to Stern Pinball, I'm going to talk about where I think this company is at. And I think they are very, very vulnerable right now. And I'll explain why in a minute. But Jersey Jack wants to take advantage of this moment. And they can. And they have some major games coming out. So here is what I heard. I heard that Mark Seiden is working on the Muppets. And again, maybe, maybe not. Right. But that's what I heard. I heard he is working on the Muppets and Eric Meunier is working on Harry Potter. Now, here's what I heard. I heard that possibly they might be thinking about moving Harry Potter in front of the Muppets to take advantage of Stern's weakness right now. Now, whether or not this happens, I don't know. But knowing that they're at the end of the Elton John collector's run right now, and there's no way they're going to make like four more months of Elton John platinums, I have to imagine we're going to see the next from Jersey Jack sometime, maybe at the end of the summertime. But it might get pretty boring as we wait for that moment to happen. A lot of speculation will come. They've done a good job keeping it a secret. And I will give them credit there. Now, I also heard that Eric Meunier's Harry Potter, they have the assets. They have assets from the movie. So if they make this harry potter game and they make it right and it shoots well And it's got a bunch of toys and it brings this jersey jack platform to life via the world of harry potter I think we could witness one of the best-selling pinball machines of all time Now the muppets is a weird one, right because it's not a bad theme for pinball It actually feels like it could be a lot of fun, but the muppets is also kind of in that Looney Tunes kind of territory where we are still 40 to 60 year old men. And are we waking up and watching Muppet movies? I think Harry Potter brings in more people. Obviously, the Matrix would bring in more people. But here's what I'm also hearing about the Matrix. I'm hearing Jersey Jack Pinball does not have the Matrix and they're not making the Matrix. And the reason why they're not making the Matrix is that the assets are really difficult to get. I'm hearing potentially possibly that Dutch Pinball might be the company that has swooped in and taken the Matrix license. Again all of this is what I hearing in the rumor mill I am not going to confirm any of this So here the order that I am hearing It is going to go possibly Harry Potter then Muppets and Steve Ritchie next game This is what I hearing people Take it for what it's worth. I'm hearing that Steve Ritchie's next game is going to be Avatar. Now, we've heard all of these themes in the JJP rumor mill for a while, and usually the rumor mill JJP stuff comes true. I'm not crazy about Avatar. The fact that they're making three more movies just bores me. I'm over that franchise. I saw the last movie once. I have no desire to see it again. And I hope Jersey Jack doesn't make Avatar. I hope it's something else. All right. So that's where we're at with Jersey Jack. I think if anybody can slay Stern and hurt them the most, It's going to be Jersey Jack because it's not going to be a company like Pedretti Gaming, which just announced that they can make, wait for it, 120 games a month. I mean, on some level that is good for a boutique, but it's also just not a lot of games. And so they're trying to sell these Funhaus remakes. And they're also saying they're going to make more remakes of classic Bally Williams games. And I'm not sure this is really going to work. And we're going to have to see. The market's going to decide whether or not we need more of what is old. I think we're going to see more remakes of Stern titles. But do people really want more of these older games that were easy to get for so many years? And just because you change the artwork, is that going to make people want it? Now, the good news for Pedretti and all of these remakes is they're not really needing to sell that many. 500 LEs of a classic game made by Pat Lawler only need 500 pinheads around the world that want a brand new one. And that doesn't sound like that hard to do, but it's also like 10, $11,000 with a topper. It's a lot of money for a game that used to sell for half that much on the used market. it. And again, all the value, all the innovation, most of it, it's the lighting, it's the 2.0 kit, and it's the artwork. So I don't know. You know, I don't know. There's just something about these Padretti remakes. They don't have me as excited as the CGC remakes because I'm just not sure of the build quality. I'm not sure. I'm not positive. I have to hear from more owners what it's like to have these Pedretti games. All right, so that's going on. We heard from Barrels of Fun. They're being very transparent, maybe even to a fault. I don't think to a fault. I don't think you can be too transparent in this hobby. And they are basically saying by the end of the year, we will have made all of the Labyrinth games that we have orders for. And it's somewhere north of 700 units. And what I think they need to do is just say, all right, this is it. We're going to make labyrinth until the end of the year and we're going to make a total of 750 games and that's it just cap it you're not going to sell 400 more labyrinths it's just not going to happen you know what's going to happen next is out of the original 700 you make some of those are going to start to trickle into the second-hand market and they will sell for less money than msrp and i think look it's a good first run. 750 of a game like this from a brand new company is a really good first run. And I would just cap it now. I think that will be good. I think you will solidify some scarcity and limited edition nature to the early adopters. And who knows, right? This game might have a long shelf life. It might get more popular down the road as more people play it. And it would be good to preserve for those initial early adopters, the 750 of them, some value in their games. Have you seen the secondhand value of like an Ultraman collector's edition? I just saw this the other day. It sold for like $3,600. You can't give the damn game away. So if you own an Ultraman collector's edition, I'm sorry to report that you have a game that is basically like a paperweight. Like nobody really wants it. And again, I mean, that's just where we're at in pinball, people. There's so many good games and you got to be really careful not to buy one that nobody wants. I think games like Galactic Tank Force are going to go that way. Berrio's Barbecue Challenge, Ultraman. You know, I think there's just some titles out there like Thunderbirds, like nobody wants it like at any price. If you have one and you paid full price, you either got to own it forever or you're going to take a bath. All right. So we've got that with barrels of fun. Let's go over next. We're going to get to Stern, but let's go to this ABBA game, which is on the line. And I saw the pictures of the game on the line. Still not excited about it. Something about this theme. I don't know. Are they going to sell them in Europe? I think this game is going to come and go like a flash in the pan. And again, it's not cheap. This is another game. It's not cheap. It doesn't look good. It looks dated already. And they want to charge what? Like $10,000, $11,000 for the LE? The standard version of the game is one of the ugliest cabinets in the history of pinball. And so I think they're really going to struggle to move these games. And it's not really the game people want. I don't think it's really a game. And I'm just going to say this. I don't think it's a game that looks like it can compete with what's out there in the current pinball marketplace. Because you're not just competing against what's new. because no games really get that old. You're also competing against people's ability to go get much better games. Like you're competing with Godzilla. You're competing with games like Iron Maiden. You're competing with games like Guns N' Roses. You're competing with games like Elton John. You're competing with everything. You're competing with games like Jurassic Park. Like you're competing with games like Elvira. Every single game that you can go get. When I have like $11,000 burning a hole in my pocket, what game am I gonna go get? Not just all the new stuff. You can go get old Bally Williams games. And speaking of old Bally Williams games, here's what I'm hearing is going to happen at CGC, which it's weird to talk about CGC because they need to make these Pulp Fiction LEs. I have no line of sight of when that is going to happen. I hope it happens soon. People have been waiting forever for these things. How hard can it be to make a topper, right? I mean, that's the only thing that would hold this game up. The rest of the game is exactly the same. So everybody's still waiting on those. by the time those damn things come out, I'm just curious if people are even going to care. Like, it's not worth it. It's just not worth it that everybody who bought these LEs has to wait so long to get it. And then I hear what's going to happen next is they're going to do another run of Medieval Madness. So if you're thinking of getting a Medieval Madness, do not pay an inflated price for a Royal Edition. Just be careful here because they're going to make more Medieval Madness games. I think the final run might be like 500 units. and you know them, they're going to name it something special and it's probably going to destroy the value of all those Royal editions selling for $20,000. And then after Medieval Madness they are making Twilight Zone I mean I almost like 100 sure about that So if you want a brand new Twilight Zone get ready It is coming out Now the only issue with CGC I just gave you two games they going to make after Pulp Fiction We don't even know when they're going to finish Pulp Fiction. So this could be a company that that might be the next three years of CGC, maybe four years. And so that is why it's just really hard to get excited about Chicago Gaming Company. And now that these Pulp Fiction playfields are falling apart, it's even harder to get excited because the quality is not there like it used to be. All right. So that's CGC. Let's go. Let's go through everybody. Then we'll get to Stern. So spooky pinball. We've been back and forth with these rumors. Nobody fully knows. It's not Beetlejuice. We know that now. But I think they have the Beetlejuice license. Do they have the Goonies license? What's it going to be? More to come on spooky. But right now they are still building all of these Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacres. If you own those games, congratulations. I'm just personally bored by both of those titles. Whenever I see new code updates, I really, you know, I pop into the thread and it puts me to sleep. It's how I go to bed at night, right? It's not the quietness of the suburbs. When I want to go to bed at night, I pop into that Texas Chainsaw Massacre owner's thread. And within like three pages, I'm out like a light bulb. I'm just out. like I just could care less. Sorry, Spooky. You got to make a theme that excites me. I'm sorry. I know you made these games for yourselves, but eventually you're going to make a game where the theme excites Kaneda. I don't think they've done it yet. I'm thinking about all their themes. I wasn't even a Rick and Morty fan. They haven't made something yet. That's just take my money now from Kaneda on a theme level. I hope they do that. All right. After Spooky Pinball, what do we got? p3 multi-morphic did you see this like weird al sold for like 50 less money than the game was new and that's all you need to know about the multi-morphic it's like nobody wants to buy these things used and then you get the one dude who's loving final resistance who has to come into the thread and justify it's probably one of jerry's like fake accounts jerry i think i speak for all of us, just make a normal pinball machine. And when you do do that, and it sells like four times more units than your multi-morphic platform, we know that's the only reason why you won't do it. Because it'll prove to you that the last like 15 years where you were trying to reinvent pinball wasn't worth it. You could be as successful as Spooky, but you're not. You could be as successful as cgc but you're not you could be as successful as barrels of fun but you're not like barrels of fun has sold more labyrinths in just one year than jerry has sold of multi-morphics in 15 years and i don't understand how you wake up and the answers are staring you in the face and then you decide not to take the right course of action i don't know it's like who are you making this for Like, I don't even understand who you're making it for. Just someone who wants to be radically different. And that's it. That's your target audience. But you know what? Nobody, even if you want to be radically different, nobody wants to lose 50% of the value on a game. But it's not going to be over because I know Jerry has like two or three more licensed games that he's coming out with. He's going to keep hitting at this thing. And I don't know, man. I really don't know. All right. What's next? American Pinball. I mean, I don't even know what to say about these guys. They're done. They're done. So I don't even need to talk about them. There's nothing coming next. It's not going to work. David Fix, as long as he's still there, this company is done. So after American Pinball, we've got Haggis. I think they're in the same boat. Here we are. It's mid-June. There's been no update on the recapitalization of this company. I don't know who would invest in this company. I don't see a way out. They don't talk about anything going on. So I don't really want to talk about them much because nobody cares. Nobody cares. I think they're pretty much irrelevant at this point. And I think they're done as well. All right, who else is out there? Am I missing someone? Turner Pinball's trickling out a few Ninja Eclipses. I don't get it. I don't get why Chris Turner sold the Raza rights to Dutch Pinball X. Makes no sense. I think if he just made Raza's, he would have sold more than Ninja Eclipse. Let's talk about Dutch Pinball X. So I've been talking to Barry. I've been talking to him about like the whole way they're launching Alice in Wonderland. And I think they're going about it all wrong. I'll be candid with you. I told this to Barry. You want to make this like exclusive pinball company that's different, right? That's your goal. You want to sell to high-end collectors a work of art. Okay. You want to behave in a way that is non-traditional in pinball. And then when I look at the launch of Alice in Wonderland, and I told this to Barry because I've been trying to give him marketing advice since I learned about this DPX entity. I said, Barry, you say you're this. You say that DPX wants to be this, this, and this. And you're behaving like every other pinball company. There's been absolutely zero creativity in this launch. And Barry, I want you to pull Melvin into a room right now and have him listen to the next three minutes. So you want to position yourself as Dutch pinball exclusive. OK, then you want to go get like the Zidware properties and sort of piggyback off of John Papadiuk's Alice in Wonderland creation, piggyback off of Zombie Eddie's artwork. OK, I'm fine with that. do that. Okay. But if you're going to do something unique, at least John Papadiuk, when he was marketing his ZigWare games, he made it really interesting. Like the way he took deposits, like how he gave people like receipts, like all of it was clouded in a little bit of mystery and he didn't really know, right? It was like this mad hatter kind of guy. And then I look at Dutch Pinball X and they want to come out with this game. And what have they done? Have they done anything that's mysterious? Have they let us down a rabbit hole at all? No, Melvin just does what everybody else has done, but just in all the wrong order. So the first thing he does is he lifts up the underside of the play field. That's what everybody else has done, right? That's not original. Like, and normally when Jersey Jack does that or other companies do it, they do that like a week before the game comes out. It's just a way to get people excited and show you under the hood. So they do this for Dutch Pinball X like four to five months before the game is even going to come out. So how does that make any marketing sense? And then when they did that, when they showed you Under the Hood, they didn't even announce the title, even though we could see the Translight was the same artwork as Zombie Yeti. We all knew it was Alice in Wonderland. Okay. And then they wait like a month, a month, and there's nothing exciting, nothing to chew on. And then a month later, what do they do? They just officially announced the game with like this image that looks like the cover of a kid's coloring book. And it's boring. It's like dark. It's dark browns. It doesn't look great. Like the zombie Yeti Alice artwork we know is in the game. And so, okay, great. So you lifted the hood, you launched what looks like a coloring book for a third grader as like the announcement of the title, and then you've got nothing else. And now you're saying it's Q3, 2024. So what's the point of any of this? What's the point? It doesn't seem like you have any marketing strategy whatsoever And if you wait to Q3 2024 now you going to be competing against Jersey Jacks next game You going to be competing against Stern next cornerstone game And I don't understand. And also the other thing is this, if this is Dutch Pinball X and you want to be this new company for high-end collectors and invite people in to a different pinball experience, then you should be starting that now. How are you talking to your potential customers? How are you communicating to these high-end collectors? Are you doing something fun to create like a wait list? Or are people just generically calling up Melissa to get on the list, right? Like every other game. And I mean it when I say it. Right now in the world of pinball, marketing matters now more than ever, more than ever, because there's only so much room in people's game rooms. There's only so much money people will spend on these titles. And if you don't think marketing matters and you're just going to like pull the curtain off a $14,000 Alice in Wonderland game that's not in a Zidware cabinet where the artist Zombietti is out there openly saying how much he does not want his artwork to be out there or a part of your thing. And his artwork is the main reason people fell in love with this whole thing. And then you're just going to do the basic stuff. And I mean it. It's like for some reason, I don't understand why nobody in pinball really understands marketing at all. They really don't. They don't understand how you do something, how you roll a product out, how you invite people into your brand, how you build a brand. I mean, this is it. This is like, this is my main point. This is how you build a brand. And you didn't do anything. You just put out a basic announcement. Hey, DPX exists. It's across the street. I don't care. How is like what? Who cares about any of this stuff? Build the brand that goes alongside building the game. And maybe I'm just a little bit more triggered by this because I'm a marketer and it would be a dream to help a company like this, like find a way to build its brand and they're not doing it right. Let's end this podcast. Two things. First thing in a cruel twist of fate, the perfect spot for my guns and roses collectors edition, which comes this Wednesday is in an area where there's a window. And I'm like, oh my gosh, but just wait people. I guarantee you Canada will not be covering that window with the game. More to come on that. All right, Stern Pinball. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. So while I've been moving and I've been reading about everything happening in pinball, you know, Stern released its Jaws accessories. They released another thousand dollar topper that looks like it's 300 bucks. And I've been reading all the feedback from people. And what did you expect? Did you expect Stern to go the extra mile for a thousand dollars? Did you expect them to really make an effort. I mean, even that Keith Elwin video, just the vibes, the body language, it just feels like they're mailing it in. So you've got that happening at Stern. You've got abysmal John Wick sales happening at Stern. And I just want to say this. Stern Pinball is a company that's had tremendous success. They've got great talent. They've got great creativity, but they're starting really to lose it. And you could see it. They've just lost their way, their swagger. It's almost like they know they're ripping us off. They know that this is not the best they can do. You can feel it. Like you can absolutely feel it. And they've started to act like a big corporate entity that has lost the soul and the connection to the community. And I think Stern Pinball needs to make a move that actually excites the community. Let me repeat that. I think everything they've done over the last like two years, if you will, it's just been like so expected. Everything's been so expensive. The creativity hasn't blown us away. They just haven't done anything in a while that really justifies like where their games are priced. They haven't done anything in the design or innovation standpoint that has really pushed the envelope of a Stern Pinball machine or a Stern Pinball experience. And I know Spike 3 is right around the corner. And I know that's going to be the big leap forward for them. And we don't know all the details yet. But my point is this. John Wick shows me they don't get it. They don't get what people want. They made a huge mistake with John Wick. These toppers and the prices. Yeah, you're pissing off more people than you're exciting. And I don't think they realize the long term impact that's going to have as more and more people in the community start to look at Stern as not being worth it. And so the next moves from this company, the next moves they make, and I don't know exactly what they are. Is it gonna be Metallica 40th in July? Is it gonna be a remake of Tron? Is it gonna be a new Cornerstone game at the end of the summer? Whatever it is, is it gonna be Godzilla black and white 70th anniversary edition? Whatever it is, Stern Pinball, your next move is important and you need to get it right. And they need to do something that reignites people's enthusiasm for them as a company. And until they do that, I think more and more people are just going to keep the money in the wallet and wait. Because there's so much happening in pinball. And I just feel like Stern's gotten lazy. They're greedy. And they're really not making the effort. And there's no greater symbol of that than $1,000 for that Jaws topper. You're just not making the effort. That topper would have been $399 before COVID. You can go get a huge flat screen TV for 400 bucks. I'm just tired of seeing this. I'm tired of seeing them just mail it in. And this is it. Like Jaws is a great game and it deserved a better topper for $1,000. I'm just disappointed. I'm just, this is not the best you can do. It's lazy. Releasing the Ellie armor in black with the same shark bite cut out of it. It's lazy. Like they're not doing any real work. And I think this is why I'm just going to say it. I think the ball is in Jersey Jack's court. If they can really check all the boxes, I think people are dying for like a masterpiece game based on a theme they love and they want to give their money to someone other than Stern. Everybody, it's been a pleasure. I hear Cassian starting to cry. We're back. We're going to do this show. Nothing's going to change. I hope you feel it. I hope you feel like we haven't missed a beat, and we're going to get more great episodes of Canada's Pinball Podcast. And thank you, everybody, for all the well wishes towards my family. And thank you for all the Father's Day wishes yesterday. A happy belated Father's Day to all the dads out there. You're all great dads because you did not buy your children. John Wick, L.E. Later. And then it goes back, and then it goes back, and then it goes back, oh When I get older, when I get older I will be stronger Just like a waving flag, just like a waving flag Just like a waving flag, flag, flag Just like a waving flag