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#36 - Led Zeppelin Dropped, Let's Talk About It

A Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·44m 33s·analyzed·Dec 16, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Led Zeppelin Pro has flow concerns; host criticizes artwork but appreciates lighting and some shot mechanics.

Summary

The host provides a detailed first-impression analysis of Stern Pinball's newly released Led Zeppelin machine across all three tiers (Pro/Premium/LE), focusing on artwork, lighting, and playfield layout. While appreciating theme integration and certain design elements, the host expresses significant concerns about weak flow on the Pro model, particularly the missing reverse ramp shot and ball routing issues, alongside disappointment with the album artwork choices.

Key Claims

  • The Pro model is missing the Hot Shot Reversing Combo shot that exists on Premium/LE, which severely compromises flow

    high confidence · Host has watched videos at 0.25 speed and references specific feature matrix documentation showing this difference

  • Led Zeppelin 3 album artwork (used on multiple cabinet artworks) was disliked by Jimmy Page in a 1998 Guitar World Magazine interview where he called it 'teeny bopperish'

    high confidence · Host provides direct quote from 1998 Guitar World Magazine interview with Jimmy Page

  • The Premium tier uses artwork depicting the 1937 Hindenburg disaster, which killed 36 people

    high confidence · Host identifies the album cover art as depicting a real historical disaster and notes the irony of it being the best-looking artwork tier

  • Expression Lighting system with 96 RGB lights on side rails was not a response to GNR's hot rails but has been in development for over a year

    high confidence · Tim Sexton confirmed this on Jeff Teols' Pinball Profile podcast

  • Total RGB light count is 164 on Premium/LE (96 on expression system + 68 additional), compared to 13 on Pro and 7-25 on other recent Stern games

    high confidence · Host provides detailed technical specifications with comparative numbers to Ghostbusters, TMNT, and Avengers

  • The left ramp on Pro creates obvious clunking when the ball transitions to the wire form and hits the Zeppelin standup, compromising flow

    medium confidence · Host watched Pro Model Game Features video at 0.25 speed and describes specific ball physics at 1-minute mark

  • Most location pins are Pro models, so players will primarily experience the weakest version of the game

    medium confidence · Host's general industry observation about location placement patterns

Notable Quotes

  • “I thought it looked very teeny bopperish, but we were on top of a deadline. So of course, there was no way to make any radical changes to it.”

    Jimmy Page (from 1998 Guitar World Magazine interview) @ ~6:30 — Directly contradicts the notion that the album artwork is iconic or ideal for the game; Page himself disliked the art

  • “I would trade the sculpts, for sure, for a hotshot reverse combo custom metal chrome wire ramp. I just, I would trade anything for that. It just, that's make or break.”

    Host @ ~17:00 — Emphasizes severity of the Pro model's missing reverse ramp shot and its impact on gameplay quality

  • “That might be one of the worst upper flipper shots I have ever seen for like anywhere, just on the pro.”

    Host @ ~15:30 — Strong criticism of the Pro's upper flipper shot without the reverse ramp feature

  • “For me pinball is about the lights and the sound together making your shot feel great... you really feel if a shot is good or not based on the lights and the sound aiding you in that process.”

    Host @ ~20:45 — Articulates design philosophy on how lighting should enhance gameplay feel rather than be purely cosmetic

  • “I am not a fan of virtual saves at all. When Stern is advertising as a feature, I'm just kind of like, you know, it doesn't get me excited.”

    Host @ ~28:30 — Criticizes virtual kickback as inferior to physical save mechanisms and expresses preference for traditional mechanics

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyLed ZeppelingameSteve RitchiepersonJimmy PagepersonTim SextonpersonJeff TeolspersonGuns N' RosesgameGhostbustersgame

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Mixed early reception to Led Zeppelin with concerns about Pro tier playability on locations

    medium · Host notes some friends are interested in LE but personally disappointed; expresses worry that most players will encounter weak Pro model on location

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Uncertain whether center ramp can be reliably hit from upper flipper due to angle and distance

    medium · Host expresses skepticism about advertised feature of hitting center ramp from all three flippers; compares to Star Trek upper flipper mechanics

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pro model lacks reverse ramp shot creating flow problems and undesirable ball routing to outlanes

    high · Host expresses serious concern about right loop shot leading to out-of-control ball and potential drain to right outlane; identifies this as 'make or break' issue

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Host articulates preference for physical save mechanisms over virtual saves as design philosophy

    high · Host expresses strong opinion against virtual saves, citing lack of visual feedback and excitement compared to physical kickbacks like World Cup Soccer

  • $

    market_signal: Three-tier pricing model with significant feature differentiation between Pro and Premium/LE

    high · Reverse ramp exclusive to Premium/LE; lighting counts vary significantly across tiers (13 RGB on Pro vs 164 on Premium/LE)

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.134

0:00
Welcome back everybody to another episode of a pinball podcast. Thank you guys so much for once again being here. I honestly really do appreciate it. I know I start off every podcast by saying that, but it's the truth. Without you guys watching or listening, this would legitimately just be me looking at a camera and just talking into it. So I definitely appreciate you guys being here and listening, comments, everything, the interaction, the likes, the dislikes, whatever it could be, I honestly do appreciate the feedback. All right, moving forward. I don't know if you guys know this. If you're not aware, there has been a new pinball release, and that pinball release is by, of course, Stern Pinball. Now, in this podcast, we will be discussing Led Zeppelin. I'm not going to go too much into depth, but just enough to kind of cover all the bases that I feel like that needs to be covered because, of course, everybody is going to be going over this. but the best that I can do with this is basically give my honest opinions of my first impressions overall, what I like, what I dislike, and I'm going to do my best to keep it 100 with you guys. Like I know that some people will say that I know other people don't say it, but that's just me. That's just what I want to do. And so if anything I say, if you disagree, I don't want this to be an echo chamber. If you legitimately disagree with anything I'm saying, feel free to comment in the video and I'll reply back. I have nothing wrong with that. If I say something that's just so off off cue or so out there, call me out on it. Let me know if you disagree. Perfectly fine. I absolutely hate echo chambers. I don't like it. Don't need it. But if you agree with me, feel free to say so also because your voice and your opinion matters. Everybody's opinion matters. But that being said, all right, so we're going to go over both pros and cons. And again, My Thoughts and My Thoughts Only. Some of these you might like, some of these you might not like. Now, of course, obviously, and we'll cover this in another video coming up, that, you know, there's lots of people that this Led Zeppelin coming out, it's a tremendous band, one of the all-time great bands. And with that inevitably comes comparisons to other rock bands, to other pinball machines, namely GNR at this point, but we're not going to discuss that necessarily. But it also comes with people being concerned about the dad rock theme. Now, to me, that's something that we can kind of go in depth with. I'm not going to do on this podcast. Just realize that I am acknowledging it, and we will discuss that here coming up in the future. This is just strictly Led Zeppelin right now. So, yes, two and a half minutes of explaining how I'm just going to talk about Led Zeppelin, even though the title probably says Led Zeppelin discussion. But, yeah, that's how we roll here. So, congrats. Anyhow, a little bit longer podcast. You guys grab a beer, green tea like I got, or whatever, or water, or I don't care. Lay down on the floor, listen, or, you know, do whatever you need to do.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
game
Avengers Infinity Questgame
Star Trekgame
World Cup Soccergame
Black Rosegame
Captain Marvelgame
A Pinball Podcastorganization

product_strategy: Pro model stripped of Hot Shot Reversing Combo shot feature; feature exists on Premium and LE tiers only

high · Host references feature matrix documentation and multiple video sources showing reverse ramp present only on Premium/LE

  • ?

    product_concern: Ball routing issues identified on left ramp to wire form transition causing observable clunking

    medium · Host documents clunking behavior visible at 1-minute mark of Pro Model Game Features video when ball hits Zeppelin standup during wire form transition

  • ?

    technology_signal: Expression Lighting system represents significant RGB light implementation jump for Stern compared to prior games

    high · 164 total RGB lights vs 7-25 in recent Stern games; 96 lights on side rail expression system confirmed in development for over a year by Tim Sexton

    • 2:51
    All right, I'm all ready to go. Let's do this. All right, so art. Here's what I got to say about the artwork. The artwork is what it is. I mean, that's plain and simple. Obviously, it's based off the albums. And, you know, whenever you work with album artwork, you're basically talking about this is what theme integration really is in a pinball machine, not just on the play field itself, but the artwork also. It's all part of it. Can you get any more theme integrated than using actual art that's inspired from the albums? I mean, it's basically like each of these pinball machines are just wrapped in album covers. That's what it's like. It's like one giant album cover. Now, that being said, I can lead off with saying I absolutely am not a fan of the art. 100%. Not a fan of the art. across the board. I'm just not. That's just me. I've listened to the music, not really big on the art, but I understand why they're going with this. And again, this is as theme integrated as you possibly can get when dealing with the cabinet. So for the pro, they're using artwork from Led Zeppelin 3 from the third album. And you know, the funny part about this is that everybody is comparing it, of course, to the infamous Bugs Bunny pinball machine. But really what's funny about this is that the original artist for this pinball machine or for this album, excuse me, for this album was his name was Zach Ron. I think I assume it was a male. Probably should check that. I'm just making an assumption. So apologies if I get the gender wrong. Anyways, the name is Zach Ron. And they stated in an interview, I think it was just a few years ago, maybe about 10, 12 years ago or so. So a little bit more than a few that Jimmy Page felt that the artwork was actually fantastic. However, in an interview that's actually dated in 1998 for Guitar World Magazine, Jimmy Page said the following, and I quote, I thought it looked very teeny bopperish, but we were on top of a deadline. So of course, there was no way to make any radical changes to it. There were some silly bits, little chunks of corn and nonsense like that. There you go, direct from the horse's mouth, not even Jimmy Page like this artwork. And so it's a little bit ironic that this art ends up on a pinball machine representing Led Zeppelin. Now, of course, the album that it comes from is widely considered one of the greatest rock albums of all time. So therefore it has to be somewhat iconic, if not just completely iconic. But I just found that a bit ironic though. And you know, the story goes that basically that this artwork, and just like Jimmy Page said in his quote about it being teeny bopperish, that this artwork essentially, there's no changes that could be made because it was kept hidden up until the deadline. And so I find that very fascinating that it's hilarious that here in 2020, artwork that Jimmy Page hates dating back to 1970 ends up on a pinball machine. I mean, that's just how it goes. Now, moving forward to the premium, the premium is even more interesting to me. All right. So it's from their debut album. But here's the interesting part of it all. It's legitimately, and for every, I assume most of you guys realize this, and for the three women that listen to this podcast, I assume you ladies understand this as well or know about this. But this really wasn't mentioned at all. But I find it kind of ironic, kind of funny at the same time. It shouldn't be funny, but this just goes to show just where I'm at in my life, and I really need to question my decisions leading up to this point. But the fascinating, interesting, hilarious part of this is that this premium pinball machine legitimately depicts a major aviation disaster that happened in New Jersey back in 1937, known as the Hindenburg disaster. Now, in this disaster, 36 people actually lost their lives. And so here we are, all right, for a pinball machine that's being released in 2020 that depiction happens to be the the best of the three that's where we're at it happens to be the best three the best of the three and i'm like oh my god i just had davin dawn on me guys when i was watching all this it didn't even dawn on me and i was even telling other people yeah the premium i like the artwork on that the best yada yada yada then i'm talking to my wife late last night And I'm like, whoa, one, we're talking about pinball. Two, I'm like, oh, my God, I think the best artwork on a pinball machine of the three tiers is of an actual disaster that happened that killed people. And I'm like, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But that's neither here nor there. But that's legit. That's real life. So moving on to the LE. And, of course, there is a funny meme going around as well. Before I do move on to the LE, there is a funny meme going around. And I got to admit, this is pretty funny. It does show a picture of the Hindenburg disaster. Not funny, but what it says on it is basically like something about it being ironic that this is actually a 100% accurate depiction of Stern's release of Led Zeppelin. And I'm like, okay, I got to appreciate a meme every now and again. Anyhow, all right, so we're all going to hell for thinking about this and listening to this now. I just, I can't believe it. I really can't. All right, moving on to the LE, where it has a depiction of an Icarus. Now, an Icarus, for those scoring at home, I honestly don't know what it is. I can just stare at it and just figure it out. It looks like a muscled-up, naked dude with no genitalia but has wings. And I know there's a story behind that. I've heard the story in mythology back in college years ago. I just don't want to go over it right now. I just know that that's what's on the play field via sculpt. It's on the pop bumpers, and it's right there on the back glass for an LE.
    8:54
    Now, if that wasn't enough, that you basically have to explain to your kids what they're looking at if they come up to your pinball machine, if you happen to be in on an LE or even a pro or a premium at that regard because the sculpt is on the play field. But let's talk about the blue on that. For me, it doesn't make any sense at all. Like, I don't know if this is one of those situations to where if you just see it in person, you'll be like, oh, that makes sense. That's the way Avengers Infinity Quest was. Like, even when I saw the yellow at the beginning, I was thinking to myself, you know, I don't know about this. I don't know if the yellow will work. But you see it in person, it's great. It works. So I don't know. Maybe this is it. I'm not sure. You know, I don't know. I'm just I'm not really digging the LE package. I know a couple of my friends are, they're in on it. You know, go for it. If that's your heart's desire, if you think that that's the pinball machine for you, by all means, knock yourself out. Nobody's opinion should stop you from feeling the way that you feel or thinking the way you think. Definitely, if you want to get it, get it. But for me, that would be a hard pass for me personally. but I will say I will say that you know I go back to it again that it's just it's interesting to see where the art choices were and I know that the art choices had to represent the band so I respect that you know I think just for me personally obviously I've come to the conclusion that I just didn't really like the Led Zeppelin album covers I think that's all it is and they happen to be on all the pinball machines except for the LE, which is actually a symbol of, I believe, their record company, Swan Records. And yeah, so that's about it for art. That's, I mean, that's where we're at with the artwork, plain and simple. All right, so moving on to the lights. We got to talk about the lights.
    10:56
    Sorry, guys, sip of green tea there. All right, so talking about the lights in general. Now there is for a Stern pinball machine there a lot of RGB lights all right There 96 total in terms of well I say 96 total There 96 on their new expression lighting system which is on the side rails basically Now, this is something that a lot of people will think is a response to what GNR did with their hot rails. However, I can confirm that it's not. This has been something that's been speculated about for well over a year now. and Tim Sexton said as much on Jeff Teols' podcast, the pinball profile that he just did just yesterday when he's going to the roles. I encourage anybody to go listen to that. Go take a listen. After this, of course, don't leave right now. Don't leave right now, please. Anyhow, so there's lots of RGB lights on that with that expression lighting system. There's 96 total. And then there's also 68 RGBs in the premium NLE bringing up the grand total to, I believe, 164. and that's a lot. Compared to any other Stern, that's a lot. To give you an idea of how many that actually is, Ghostbusters had seven, I believe, and I think Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles has 13, and I'm just going off memory here. I should have put this in my notes, and I think Avengers has 22 or 23 on the Pro, and I think 25 on the Premium LE. It's somewhere right around there, so that gives you an idea. If you've seen those pens in person, And it gives you an idea of how many lights we're dealing with here. So I'm fully expecting the light show to actually be pretty good. Now, on the Pro, the Pro is considerably stripped down compared to that. It has 13 RGB lights. But again, that's just as much as Ninja Turtles is, which I think Ninja Turtles is also 13. And that's obviously more than Ghostbusters.
    12:49
    So, you know, I think that the light show will actually be pretty cool. I'm excited to see it. I'm excited to see what it is because for me pinball pinball is a lot about the lights but it's not necessarily about just throwing the lights at you for the sake of throwing the lights at you like for me pinball is about the lights and the sound together making your shot feel great like everybody talks about how a shot feels you know what I mean like sometimes a shot can feel good if you're really in tune to pinball and you're a high level player I know a lot of them talk about this obviously you can feel whether a shot is good or not but also at the same time though you really feel if a shot is good or not based on the lights and the sound aiding you in that process you guys know what i mean like it's just like hitting a big jackpot or hitting a crucial shot that all goes into it and i'm curious to see how they implement that with so many rgb lights and then thus we'll segue directly into the shot layout all right and again guys i'm going to keep it 100 with y'all completely as much as i possibly can and we're going to start on the pro all right and so after watching all the videos that have come out after watching it at different speeds 0.25 speed because i just obviously have no life and i have to watch pinball videos at 0.25 speed i've started to come to the conclusion early on this is just an early i won't say conclusion i'll say early impression because i do need to see other people play and i do actually need to flip it to come to this full conclusion but this is like my early hypothesis basically My first instinct is that the Pro, obviously, to me, the Pro will be the weakest shooter of the bunch. But I'm really worried about both the Premium and the Elite also being weak shooters. Okay? And we're going to go over that right now. With the Pro, a big reason, or like 100% certain of this part, this one I'm 100% certain on, the Pro is going to be the weakest shooter of the bunch. And a big reason for that is the Pro is missing that reverse ramp shot on the loop. Okay? If you guys haven't seen this yet, I encourage you to go to a video, check it out, and you'll see it. So on their feature matrix, the shot is called the Hot Shot Reversing Combo Custom Metal Chrome Wire Ramp Shot, or just the Hot Shot Reversing Combo Shot. I guess that's what they're calling it, at least on the Chrome Ramp, or at least on the feature matrix.
    15:14
    And they say that this connects the right flipper return via a wire ramp for constant pinball action. Now, that constant pinball action is completely missing from the Pro. completely missing. And I have to be completely honest with you guys. That might be one of the worst upper flipper shots I have ever seen for like anywhere, just on the pro, just seeing it. And I don't understand it. I don't get the decisions that went into that. Obviously it's got to be money decisions to strip things out. That just, to me, that might be one of the worst things I've ever seen stripped out of a pro that's in a premium or in an LE. Like, I just don't understand it because it kills, one, it kills all flow. Two, if you watch the videos, and I think this is on, I wish I would have put this in my notes. I think it's on the pro, yeah, it's on the pro model game features. And if you go there at right around one minute, or no, I don't know if this is the one minute one, that might be something else. Anyway, so you can see it on the pro thing. you'll see the actual shot happen and you'll see where the ball ends up at. And whenever you hit that shot clean, it hits what's called, I think it's the hermit target. So just that little standup target in the back, it'll hit it. And if you hit it clean, that ball, it's on video. The ball went to the R and O areas, the standup targets that spell out rock on the right-hand side.
    16:41
    And seeing that, the ball also ricocheted down to the sling, the top of the right post or right sling. It was somewhere in that area. And so, you know, that really worries slash frustrates me because basically you could hit the left orbit, that spinner orbit, go all the way around to the right upper flipper, hit the target flush. Like you crush your shot. And your reward for crushing the shot, most likely, depending on how the pin's going to be set up, is for sure the ball going out of control. And that's at best. At worst, that ball's going straight to the right out lane. and in a lot of competitions, especially when the pinball, when the whole machine is pitched up a little bit taller, I could see that ball feeding to the right out lane on a consistent basis, and I'm really worried about that. I'm really worried about that, and that's just a big concern. Again, hopefully I'm completely wrong about this. Hopefully when we see it in action during the gameplay reveal, which is this Friday at 6 p.m. Central Time, by the way, on Facebook, on Stern's actual Facebook page, which is smart, by the way.
    17:49
    Until we see it there, I don't know for sure, but I'm really worried about that. I don't know why that's left out. Obviously, it has sculpts on the Pro, which is nice, but I just don't understand why that's left out. I feel like that that should have been in there. I feel like that feature shouldn't have been left off. I would trade the sculpts, for sure, for a hotshot reverse combo custom metal chrome wire ramp. I just, I would trade anything for that. It just, that's make or break. And what really stinks for a lot of players, you know, it's highly likely that the majority of people that ever interact with this game or ever play with this game will be on location, but it will most likely be a pro that they see. Most pros end up on location, or most location pins end up being a pro. Now there are some that are premium LE, of course, But, you know, I just, I feel like on the pro we're missing out on a lot right there. And so that has me really worried. And a couple other things do have me worried as well. So we're talking about, and again, I'll get to the good stuff on this. I know this sounds negative. This sounds bad, but I'm just telling you my worries right now. So hang in there. This isn't all doom and gloom. It's just, we have to point out the obvious though. We have to keep it real. We have to point out the obvious. And so generally speaking, there are four shots that I count at least on the pro that return to flippers five on the premium and le if you're counting the reverse combo custom metal chrome wire ramp shot but usually it's the or i say usually it's the left orbit left ramp center ramp and right ramp that return to flippers okay now before i go into my concerns with that let me just pause and let me say some positive things let's just skip back to the positive then we'll come back we need to we need to smooth this over because it's again guys it's not all doom and gloom. It's not. It's not. It's just me being concerned. All right. So the center ramp to me looks smooth. I am excited about the possibilities of that center ramp. I feel like the way that the rules were talked about, which we'll briefly get into here a little bit later. I feel like the way that the rules were talked about, I feel like the middle ramp is just right for the pickings for during any guitar solo for it just to be crushed over and over and over again to where maybe the sound might jack up a little bit and the guitar solo is going off and you're just hitting that shot and I mean since the play field's wide open that ball is just going to be ripping through there for me that's a little exciting I can appreciate that and I hope that that does happen I also do like the drop targets anytime you have drop targets in the game it's awesome I don't mind the stand-up targets at all because that's you know that's a little bit of a trade-off I think having drops and stand-ups to where it creates some unique combos of bouncing the ball around since they do kind of tie into your multiplier also again different rules you know i can appreciate that and i do like that as well the skill shot too i think has potential to be pretty cool it feels like the way that the shooter lane is set up that it has callbacks to something like a black rose to where maybe we can power plunge you know into the loop back around now of course on the pro we're hitting that hermit target or we can hit the i believe it's the led stand-ups. I think that's what's right there. Yeah, the LED stand-ups. And I don't know. I don't think the geometry shows that you could go and hit the ZEPP targets. I could be wrong. Again, have to see it really going. But, you know, it presents some interesting possibilities. Plus, too, honestly, it presents some other cool potential skill shots to where you could short plunge into a flipper and then into a ramp or onto a flipper into a ramp. And so that allows Allows for a lot of play with the overall rule set and allows for a lot of play for different shot combinations. So I really do like those parts to it. The spinner, I like the idea of spinners on anything, especially a pro. I like that. That's awesome.
    21:50
    You know, the pop bumpers, again, pops are pops. I feel like I wish something would be done a little bit different with them from time to time. I feel like it's kind of, it's almost like, of course, most modern pinball machines are just going to have two flippers down and below. It's almost guaranteed that you're going to have three pops somewhere on the play field at any given time But other than that though I mean I don mind the physical locks on the left ramp or the virtual locks excuse me I don mind that necessarily I kind of wish there was a physical lock but I don mind it One thing I do mind I wish there was an actual save mechanism I am not a fan of virtual saves at all. When Stern is advertising as a feature, I'm just kind of like, you know, it doesn't get me excited. I want to see the ball in action, and I don't want to see the ball just coming out of the shooter lane. I want to see it pop up from a different angle and a different perspective. And seeing it pop up from a different angle, such as the left out lane, is something different that's visually different that you don't get as much anymore. You just don't get it. And old pinball machines, of course, or older pinball machines, you get that a lot. And one of my favorite kickbacks is on World Cup soccer. I really do like that. It's just one of the – it's that feedback. You know what I mean? To where if you happen to not realize that it's lit and then it goes ahead and it kicks it out, You get that feeling all of a sudden you're ready to go. Whereas on the modern ones for me, whenever I get the virtual kickback, I don't quite get that connection. I don't get that sudden excitement out of nowhere. I'm just kind of like, oh, okay, yeah, it's coming back. I mean, that's just the way I feel. I don't know how you guys feel about it. Let me know, and we'll figure this out. But anyhow, so kind of coming back to some of my concerns. so i got a couple of reasons for my reservations of this actually being a flow monster now obviously if we go left orbit and we're talking on the pro here if we go left orbit to that right loop shot it's going to go out of control no matter what no matter what you complete that combo it's out of control no matter what unfortunately so that's that kills flow right there and they even say as much on the Matrix when they talk about one of the pluses to that wire form is continued pinball action. They say it themselves. You know, the other thing I'm kind of worried about is that right ramp a little bit. I'm wondering, and again, this is just speculation. I don't know until we see it. I'm hoping that it doesn't lead to any rejects or anything like that. Of course, it's not going to be like Avengers Infinity Quest or that Captain Marvel ramp where you will have a lot of rejects coming out of that. I don't think it's going to be like that, but the possibility is still there because of its angle that it is possible to have a reject here and there. The other thing that was kind of concerning to me, and you can see this actually on the Pro Model game features, and I believe that this is around the one-minute mark, all right? So if you watch a left ramp shot that is made, okay, that ball actually comes down onto the wire form. It's the same wire form that connects directly to the center ramp. So the left ramp and the center ramp are using the same wire form. Well, that ball has to get on the wire form some way from the left ramp. And of course, it just is the ball dumping out onto the wire form. But if you go to their Pro Model Game Features YouTube video and you go around to the one minute mark, slow it down to 0.25 speed and you'll see exactly what I'm about to talk about. The ball will literally fall from the ramp as it's supposed to into the wire form, will then bounce up and hit the Zeppelin. and then it'll come to a halt basically because of where it hits and it'll bounce it right back down to the wire form and then it will continue now not too much of a big deal it's just for me though when you're talking about something that's flowy that right there is obvious clunk that's a shot to where it's nearly guaranteed the way the pin will be set up at any point that if you hit that left ramp flush whether it's from a backhand which is great that you can hit it from the back in. That part's great. I love that. Or whether it's the right flipper, it's guaranteed to be clunky right in there as soon as that feed hits the wire form. I'm curious to see how that deals with flow when you're actually playing. How does that deal when you're playing with multi-ball? Is there a chance that if you have a couple of balls in there, could it get stuck? Is there a chance that it could actually squeeze out from underneath the Zeppelin and the wire form? Is there a big enough gap? I don't know if there is or not, but you'll see it go there one minute mark, slow it down to 0.25 speed, and you'll see that ball just clunking all around. So that is a little bit of a concern for me. The center ramp also, it was advertised that you can hit that from all three flippers. Now, I'm not quite sure if you can actually hit that from the upper flipper. I have to assume it can happen since they're, you know, starting to saying, hey, this happens. But I don't think, I think it's more of a Star Trek situation, guys. If you guys have played that game before, it is possible to hit that left ramp from the upper right flipper, which is another Steve Ritchie design. However, you cannot hit that, or at least the majority of time you will not hit it anyways but the majority majority majority of the time you will not hit that on the fly that ball has to basically be trickling down to your flipper and i expect it to be the same on here if that ball is going to make it up that center ramp which i'm still kind of skeptical of that if it is i think it's mainly because the ball has lost a lot of momentum and speed leading down to that upper flipper i think that that's basically the only way and especially if you look at that center ramp and I'm looking at it even right now you know the angle of it the angle goes towards the left and it nearly starts directly from the base so I have to assume maybe it's one of those things that if you catch it enough you can just hit it off that bottom corner that's on the left hand side of that ramp and maybe that'll ricochet it into the curve maybe it just it doesn't look the same is or as functional as the ramp did on Avengers Infinity request, so I'm curious to see how that would work. However, here's the good news about the upper flipper, though. It looks like you can sweep the targets, though, and I love that type of shot. So if that's in there and it looks like it is possible, that's cool. That's a great shot. That's a satisfying shot, and I'm glad to see that in here. You know, when we're dealing with the right orbit, kind of looking at it, I'm kind of, you know, it doesn't matter to me. I'm neither a fan nor I hate it.
    28:12
    Shots and orbits that just lead to a lock. I've never been a big fan of it in previous games, but I can understand if that's what's needed according to how this game is set up. I just hope that those shots make it into that scoop that's back there more times than not. Because I know a couple of times in the videos, it also showed that even though it was going around that right orbit, it didn't quite make it into the scoop and as a result, it just hit the pop bumper area. I mean, that's pinball. I don't know. That's probably too much. I'm probably just going too deep in the woods if I get too upset about that. I think it's going to be okay in general. It's neither love it nor hate it.
    28:52
    All right, so moving forward. I think that's about all we can touch base on on the overall layout. Of course, you've got the drop targets like we talked about or stand-up targets. It's going to make the ball go everywhere. Now, you know, a big difference, and I nearly left this off, so caught myself right here. Big difference on the premium and the LE, of course, is the middle mech. Now, that middle mech, I talked about this in a previous video. For me personally, it leads to electric magic multiball is what it is. And it's a multiball that's just on the premium and the LE.
    29:26
    And so, you know, I have a love-hate relationship already with this mech. I love the idea of it. I just don't like the placement of it. And obviously, the look, the look's a little different. I think it's going to lead to a lot of clunk shots because it does look a little tight on that spinner. You know, and naturally that has to be their reasoning. That has to be why it's designed for it because it needs to be a tough shot. But I just don't, I'm not really a big fan of where it's at on the play field. I really wish if that, if that mech would have been lined up as such to where you could both rip that and the center ramp, right? I mean, think about that. Middle spinner into center ramp would have been a satisfying shot. That would have been a unique shot. I can't think of any other game where that's happened. If you guys can think of any game, please let me know. But that would have been highly satisfying. But that being said, there are a lot of games that present plenty of difficulty whenever you do have a spinner smack dab in the middle of the play field. I mean, it sounds easy, but for a lot of people, they struggle with that type of game. And not only that, this is close enough to the flippers to where they have the post right there. You might have potential to either see some gnarly air balls or some really frustrating shots when you're dealing with something smack dab in the middle. But that being said, because it does lead to a multi-ball, I don't really – I don't – I'm glad it's challenging. If it's challenging, I'm glad it's challenging. You know, if that makes sense. I hope I'm making sense. I may be talking myself in circles right now trying to formulate this thought, but I like, again, I like the idea of the mech spinning, charging it up, and then all of a sudden it becomes a captive ball type situation where it'll catch it and then it'll go back down. And then eventually you'll work your way to where you'll have a hurry up to where you'll have to knock a ball off there. That's a pretty cool thing. I think that that's pretty cool. And for the most part, I think anybody that gets a premium and an LD will appreciate this mech. It is interesting. For me personally, I just wish it might have lined up a little bit more with the center ramp. But again, that probably wasn't possible just based on what's going on underneath the playfield. Because I have to think that that was probably thought of 100% by everybody else at Stern. They're probably all thinking the same thing.
    31:46
    And so I think that pretty much wraps it up for the playfield part. I don't really see any need to talk about inserts or anything like that. Of course, we discussed it in another video. Obviously, combos are going to play a big part in this overall game because they are on the play field.
    32:04
    Let's see. Let's just go directly into the songs now. All right. So 10 songs total, all pretty much iconic hits, but what's not from Led Zeppelin. And I'm not going to complain too much about the potentiality of it becoming repetitive. I know that there's a voice out there of people that they get really concerned about that. and I've suffered from that as well. I have an Iron Maiden behind me in which I love the gameplay and I got so tired of the music, I turned it into a hip hop soundtrack. So it's legitimately, to my knowledge, the only Iron Maiden pin in existence that has a hip hop soundtrack and that has just made the pin that much more awesome for me because it's music that I can identify with a little bit more than Iron Maiden. But I do at the same time think that, you know, it's just, there's no need to really complain too much, in my opinion, about the potential of music being repetitive in a music pen. And simply because, you know, here's the dirty secret about pinball machines, all right? I'm going to tell you guys right now. You guys ready for this?
    33:11
    All pinball machines have repetitive music. There, I said it. It had to be said. All of them do. You know just the main difference is is when you dealing with a music pen you happen to have songs on there that you are well aware of And because you well aware of the songs and the songs play that much more of an importance to the overall pin, you're going to be just hyper focused on that. You're going to understand that because the songs are really tied into modes for the most part as well. It's been like that across the board. And so I think we just kind of psych ourselves out a little bit to believing that these things are more repetitive than what they are just because we're more in tune with the song itself. Now, that being said, if you are feeling that this has potential of being repetitive for you, nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's, you got a couple options with that one. You can either change the songs, you could turn it down, or you could simply just opt not to buy one and just play it on location. You know, it's simple as that. And so that's kind of where I feel about the songs. You know, I don't mind the song choices. I think everything that I want to end there, happen to be in there. And I think, okay, one second, guys. My wife, who's delivering vaccines right now, is calling me. I need to take this call, and then I'll pick us up right after.
    34:29
    All right, where were we? So proud of my wife. Love you, sweetie. All right, moving ahead. On to rules. I think we pretty much finished up the song. So we'll just move on to the rules. Again, not going to go too much into the weeds on this. Just kind of just, you know, hit the surface of it. it was confirmed that co-op mode is coming. It's not available this instance, but Tim Sexton did confirm via pinball profile that he is working on something like that. And it was directly because of the success that he saw of it off teenage mutant Ninja turtles earlier this year, back in March. So that will be interesting to see how that's implemented. Now, from what I understood, I could have swore that he said that he had 10 modes with each having several songs tied into them. I'm, I don't know if that's an exact number. I don't know if he's given a general number, but I thought that's what I heard. Don't quote me on that. I think that's what I heard. Now, just reading off this week in pinball, because they do their full thing, showing the full pinball machine and all that, kind of going over the rules and code that they have listed down compared to what my notes were from listening to the podcast. It's kind of similar to where basically you can choose your song. Before each ball, each song will have its own set of arrows to hit. And then here's the interesting part. as the song progresses, all right, the arrows will switch. So essentially your arrows or your shots on the play field are going to correspond with whatever part of the song that you're on, such as the chorus, the verse, solos, a bridge. And so that's where we can circle back to what I said earlier about the center ramp. I really hope that during like a guitar solo that you're just ripping that center ramp over and over and over again, because it happens to be the easiest shot of the game, that would be really cool. And how it works is the way that I understand it, the more points that you get within, say, a course of a song, that will actually up the amount of points you can get in the course of another song. And so that's something that is really unique. And the fact is, too, is that as soon as you finish one song, it will transition to the next song on that little playlist that you see on the premium and the L.E. on the back box. it will transfer to the next song. That's going to be interesting as well. Now, I'm not quite sure. I have to make the assumption that you have to play through the full song in order to do that. I don't think that there's any way that you really complete a song outside of a certain score of getting so many records, because they have it set in there, and this is towards wizard modes and stuff like that, to where five gold records complete a song, and ten gold records equals a platinum record, which is what you need for the wizard mode. So that's pretty cool to where they have different milestones tied into it to where you can earn a gold record. It's almost like something passive happening behind the scenes, kind of like the trophies on Avengers nearly. So I find that interesting and I find that to be an excellent implementation of theme integration of something that you can shoot for when going for wizard modes. What I'm wondering is, is do you have to play a full out song? And if so, if we play a full out song, I have to assume to me, my mind goes to, well, if I don't like a particular shot, I could just trap up during a part of the song. What I hope happens is, is that the song doesn't keep going. I hope that once it hits that info, you know, when you have your flippers up, that maybe the song comes to like a halt. Like you can almost hear like the record just stop playing. And then whoever's doing the voice call outs, they just shout out at you like, hey, what are you waiting for? something like that or get back on you know anything to just push the action along to force you having to hit a switch and so i pretty sure i'm willing to bet something would be like that because obviously nobody wants to make their game turn into something where you're just trapped up all the time but i do find that kind of funny though that there in lies the potential that you're basically this is like the anti guns and roses that you're not you you want to trap up and play under control, maybe waste a little bit of time, hit a shot to get the timer going again. That's safe that you can return back to a flip or trap up again just so you can progress through your song. I'm kind of curious to see how they push the action in that regard. Then they also have tour modes, which tour modes are basically from you shooting the right ramp to light the tour. And then you'll hit that left eject, which is your far left shot in order to start a tour. And there's four tours, I think, or five tours, four tours, I believe.
    38:55
    Early on, yeah. The UK Tour 1971, USA 1975, Earl's Court, and then USA 1977. And it said that each tour has its own set of objectives to complete on the overall tour checklist. And then once you complete the objectives on there, you can lock balls for tour multi-ball. Now, what I find really cool is that each of the tours will have its own unique multi-ball. And so that's interesting. And plus two, there's a huge thing in there that I noticed as well that I heard. And I'm assuming this applies to all multiballs across the board. But I really love that your jackpot value will carry over to other multiballs or to maybe even just that same multiball. It will carry over to your next multiball you have. And I love that. I love that in a game because it gives you a reason to play well in multiball. It gives you a reason. And it gives you a reason to do it again. And it gives you a reason to really focus in on your stacks. Now, you know, there's a fine line between that where obviously you don't want to turn your game just into a multiball fest to where that's all you're doing all day long. But I think that they will succeed in finding that fine line in terms of getting you to a certain point that makes it incentive. It gives you incentive to go for a multiball during a certain time while you're playing, whether it's when you have a playfield multiplier or whatever it could be. And again, they did go over play field multipliers a little bit. I'm not going to go too in depth with you guys on that. Just know it has to do with combinations and the targets and then a multiplicative thing to where all these multipliers add up. And then you hit the Icarus target in the back. And that's what makes, you know, the Icarus guy just bounce up and down. But again, I know like half of you guys right now are just shutting your brains off listening to that. But that's pretty much where the rule set is going to. I think it'll make a lot more sense once we see it in person or once we see it actually played out. I don't want to go too in-depth on that. But that's about all I got for this. That should pretty much wrap it up. We basically, we didn't go too in-depth over anything in general, but we tried to cover a breadth of stuff dealing with this pinball machine. You know, I'll be flat out honest with you guys. I initially planned on getting a pro just because I wanted to learn it. I wanted to get prepared for it in tournaments. And I do like Led Zeppelin. I do have a little bit of pause after seeing it whether or not I really want to go through with this I have a little bit of pause and it's for the main reasons that I've stated especially with that upper flipper shot that's like my deal breaker right there and so I'm going back and forth on whether or not I should go ahead and go through and get a pro I think I'm leaning towards going ahead and getting a pro and so that way once I do get it I can give an honest review I'm only going to have it for a few months. I definitely know already this isn't going to be a game that's bolted to the ground just because looking at how the shots are playing out on the Pro. But I want to be able to play it and give everybody an honest review of what I feel. And I also do believe we'll probably see that game in a lot of tournaments. I do. And, you know, it's just most of the time you don't see premiums or LEs in tournaments, especially high level, you know, Stern Pro Circuit tournaments. And so that's one of the big reasons why I'm wanting to try this machine out because I don't know. I wouldn't be able to play it anywhere else at the moment. So that's kind of where my mindset's at. Feel free to completely roast me if you want to for buying a pro. I expect it. I feel like I need to roast myself. My own wife was roasting me last night. When she found out I was getting a pro, she was just like, you've got to be kidding me. And it wasn't one of those, oh my gosh, another pinball machine again. She watched the trailer and she was just like, I could tell she was judging me. She was staring at me and judging me, and I don't blame her one bit. But I need to try it out. I need to know for sure. And once I do get it, who knows when that will be. I assume it will be sometime next month. Once I do get it, again, I'll be 100 with you guys and be honest about my purchase, be honest about what I'm going through with it because I'm not the type of person that's going to buy a game and then tell you just how great it is just because I have to justify my purchase. If I make a bad purchase, I own up to it. And I've done it multiple times, multiple times. And there's a lot of reasons for that. One, I just like the theme. You know, sometimes theme wins out. And then other times I need to learn the game and then I need to move it on. And if I don't lose any money and it's basically like a free rental in terms of just learning it and moving it on, I'll do that. To me, there's nothing wrong with that, especially from a competitive standpoint. Now, from an enjoyment standpoint, again, I don't know. There's certain shots in there that I know I'll love. There's certain shots in there that I know I won't love. There's a lot of songs in there I know I'll love. I grew up on them, so I know I'll enjoy that part. I'm not worried about the art necessarily. I don't play a pinball machine and just stare at the side art cabinet. I don't stare at the back glass. I play and I watch the ball, and I watch the LEDs or the lights, and I pay attention to what I'm doing, and I try to get a high score, or I try to get to a wizard mode. Those are the two things I do at home. Mainly at home, I'm trying to get to the wizard mode. and so you know i'm not really worried about those things in general at least for home use but overall you guys tell me what you think i know a lot of other people have been saying so i think that's basically all we got from here i will be coming out with some other content later this week discussing it even more but other than that that's all i got i appreciate you guys making it all the way to the end thank you guys so much you guys have an awesome day and i will talk to you guys later later guys