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Aussie Pinball Podcast Ep 24: Simon At INDISC

The Pinball Network·video·47m 50s·analyzed·Jan 18, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Australian player Simon Peel shares INDISC tournament experience and competitive pinball insights.

Summary

Simon Peel, an Australian competitive pinball player, discusses his trip to INDISC (It Never Drains in Southern California), one of the world's premier pinball tournaments held in Riverside, California. The episode covers his travel experiences, the card-based tournament format, gameplay observations comparing American and Australian player techniques, and his subsequent visit to District 82 in Wisconsin. Simon provides detailed insights into tournament strategy, the pinball community's welcoming nature, and highlights the importance of venue quality and player skill at elite-level competitions.

Key Claims

  • INDISC (It Never Drains in Southern California) is recognized as one of the best pinball tournaments in the world, held annually in January in Riverside, California.

    high confidence · Host introduction and Simon's validation; described as 'unofficial or official almost non-IFPA Open World Championships'

  • The INDISC tournament uses a card-based format where players select 5-6 games from a bank of ~15, with scoring based on placement rankings rather than direct competition.

    high confidence · Detailed explanation by host of card system mechanics; Simon confirms participation and strategy

  • Riverside hosted approximately 250-300 competitive players at INDISC.

    medium confidence · Host and Simon's estimate; not confirmed exact figure

  • American top-level players employ different ball control techniques than Australians, including drop catches and mid-cabinet hitting rather than live catches and forward nudging.

    high confidence · Simon's detailed observation of player techniques at INDISC; corroborated by host's observation about younger players hitting mid-cabinet

  • District 82 in Wisconsin houses approximately 140-150 pinball machines including vintage EMs, solid state, and modern Stern games, maintained by Eric.

    high confidence · Simon's firsthand experience and detailed description of the venue

  • Simon placed second in a four-day pinball tournament at District 82.

    high confidence · Simon's direct statement about his competitive result

  • Riverside, California was the richest city in America in the 1920s-30s, producing approximately 80% of America's oranges.

    medium confidence · Information provided by host's wife during visit; local historical context, not primary industry source

Notable Quotes

  • “INDISC stands for It Never Drains in Southern California, which makes no sense to anyone under the age of 60. There used to be a song that was, 'It Never Rains in Southern California.' So they changed it to 'It Never Drains in Southern California,' and now it is the unofficial or official almost non-IFPA Open World Championships of pinball.”

    Host (John) @ Early in episode — Explains INDISC's cultural significance and naming origin; establishes tournament prestige

  • “The thing I found is you're not under pressure as such because you play your games, you do as well as you can, but you're not competing against people directly. You're competing against the machine.”

    Simon Peel @ Mid-episode during format discussion — Key insight into card-based tournament psychology and pressure dynamics

  • “I love pinball and you know we have to speak about the people in pinball. People like I've met so many great friends through pinball and it's obviously a love of mine. It's not only competing. I mean, it's the game. I love the game. People that don't play pinball, if I explain it to them, they don't sort of get it often.”

    Simon Peel @ Late mid-section — Articulates community and social aspects as central to pinball's appeal beyond competition

  • “The one thing I want to do on the podcast, and I've yet to talk my wife into it – she came over for the whole time and she went to the museums around Riverside and the attractions and taught me the history of the place. It was like the richest city in America in the 1920s and 30s because it was a massive fruit producing town.”

    Host (John) @ Riverside discussion — Suggests non-pinball tourism value of INDISC venue; positioning for partner inclusion

  • “I saw Escher rush in, and I'm like, what's Escher doing? Rushing onto the game. And then I actually went up to him and said, what are you doing? Is this practice? And that was actually his first game.”

    Simon Peel @ Tournament strategy discussion — Anecdote about elite player strategy of playing games immediately upon opening; Escher referenced as top-tier competitor

  • “I mean, what's another couple of hundred bucks? I mean, really, it's an enormous expense. And I know when I speak to people and say I'm going overseas to play pinball and they give me the weird look, you know, I mean, it's not lost in how fortunate I am.”

Entities

Simon PeelpersonJohnpersonINDISCeventDistrict 82locationRiverside, CalifornialocationEricpersonCarlperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: INDISC tournament generates secondary market competitions: Classic Match Play (vintage games format) and High Stakes ($100+ card buy-in with $15,000 prize pool) running alongside main card tournament

    high · Simon's participation in high stakes; host and Simon discussion of multiple tournament formats; prize pool amounts confirmed

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: International pinball community (US-based elite players) perceived as highly welcoming, non-gatekeeping, and knowledge-sharing; players actively help tourists and newcomers despite competitive context

    high · Simon's statement: 'absolutely rarely have I discovered anyone that has held information back'; emphasis on helpfulness and friendliness of top players; sharing of rules and strategy tips

  • ?

    community_signal: District 82 in Wisconsin established as significant competitive pinball venue with strong maintenance standards and multi-format tournament programming; attracts international players

    high · Simon's 4-day tournament visit and 2nd place finish; detailed description of 140-150 machine collection; Eric's technical expertise; Emily's prior attendance and streaming

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Shift in top-level pinball technique: American elite players employing mid-cabinet hitting and drop catches versus traditional forward nudging and live catches; newer technique emerging as standard among younger players

    high · Simon's direct observation at INDISC; corroborated by host's 4-year observation of mid-cabinet technique adoption; host notes impact on player fatigue and skill demands

  • ?

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.143

0:00
the pinball network is online launching the Aussie pinball podcast welcome to a whole new year and a whole new Aussie pinball podcast
0:30
This time we're going to visit with Simon Peel and head over to California to the Open Championships, otherwise known as Indisc.
0:53
Most tournament players, if not all, would be familiar with this event as it's known to be one of the best in the world. It occurs every year towards the start of the year. And Simon made the trip over and we caught up with him there. We'll have a listen about the best way to play at Indisc, what's around the town, the perils and problems with getting to the USA if you can't fill out your immigration card correctly. Beware people when ticking those boxes.
1:30
We'll also find out about the perils of public transport in the USA if you're not careful. And finally, we'll hear about his journey to District 82 up in Wisconsin. Sit back, have a listen to the show as a preview to the upcoming Open Championships, which, if you're listening to this as it's released, starts next weekend at Riverside in California. Hope you enjoy it.
2:03

Simon Peel @ High stakes discussion — Reflects on privilege of international pinball travel and the community perception of this lifestyle

  • “You need to hit those games early. And I saw Escher rush in... As soon as the door opens at 10 o'clock, I think it is, if you've paid for your first card, you put yourself on the queue. It's that simple.”

    Simon Peel / Host corroboration @ Tournament strategy section — Clear tactical advice for INDISC competition; emphasizes queue timing as critical factor

  • “I think because the tilt bob – I mean, the whole nature of it, the build of a pinball machine with the tilt bob down the bottom left – I guess if you're hitting it in the middle, then you're not sort of rocking the tilt bob so much.”

    Simon Peel @ Technique discussion — Technical explanation of why American mid-cabinet hitting technique is mechanically safer than traditional methods

  • “District 82... there's all these great old games and they're looked after by Eric so brilliantly. They all play absolutely perfectly. They're great examples. Like we, you know, a lot of the games we get here are a little tired, like my solid state ones and my EMs. Like they just don't get the work that Eric would put into them.”

    Simon Peel @ District 82 discussion — Comparison of machine maintenance standards between Australian and US venues; praise for Eric's technical expertise

  • “I'll be back next year. That's what I took away from it. That's how good it is.”

    Simon Peel @ End of INDISC discussion — Strong endorsement of INDISC as marquee tournament; signals repeat attendance commitment

    • Jim
    person
    Escherperson
    Anthony Cirilloperson
    Mr. Xperson
    Emilyperson
    Daffy Richardsperson
    Melbournelocation
    Port Phillip Baylocation
    Aussie Pinball Podcastorganization
    The Pinball Networkorganization
    Never Drains softwareproduct
    Los Angeles (LAX)location
    Riverside Convention Centrelocation

    event_signal: INDISC 2024 (January) confirmed as major international tournament with 250-300 participants; card-based format draws elite global players; recognized as premier competitive event

    high · Simon's detailed participation, host's framing as 'one of the best tournaments in the world,' tournament organization by established team (Jim, Carl)

  • $

    market_signal: INDISC positioning shift: tournament organizers explicitly requesting removal of 'inverted commas' around 'best tournaments' designation; seeking formal recognition as premier non-IFPA championship event

    medium · Host statement: 'The organisers want that inverted commas removed'; indicates deliberate branding/legitimacy campaign by tournament organizers

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Card-based tournament format (used by INDISC and Australian Open) emphasizing consistency over peak performance; psychological benefits of competing against machine rather than direct opponents; reduces pressure vs traditional match play

    high · Detailed format explanation; Simon's analysis of pressure dynamics; discussion of strategic card disposal for $20 and practice game options

  • ?

    venue_signal: Significant quality gap between maintained US tournament venues (District 82) and typical Australian machines; Australian private collections and commercial machines described as 'tired' compared to Eric's professional maintenance at District 82

    high · Simon's direct comparison: 'a lot of the games we get here are a little tired... they just don't get the work that Eric would put into them'; emphasis on playability difference

    • And a bit of Aussie Crawl, just because they're a Melbourne band and for all the beautiful people that play pinball.
    2:11
    I'm joined by Simon, who's relaxing down in Melbourne. Is that correct? That is correct. Good. I said that once to someone who said, oh, I'm from Geelong. Sorry. All right. So glorious, glorious, down, down, sunny, sometimes rainy, other times Melbourne. And for those who don't know, what's the attraction of living in Melbourne? Why haven't you moved to Queensland? Like every other Victorian, you could say. Look, I guess I was born here and I do, I live in not a bad part of Melbourne, which is near Port Phillip Bay.
    2:49
    Cold and windy. As soon as you say Port Phillip Bay, I think cold and windy. Yeah, look, it has its moments. Like today was about 22 and it wasn't too bad. It was easy to take. So compared to like it's nowhere near as warm as your lovely part of the world, but it's where I've grown up. I have a lot of friends here. I guess that sort of cements you in a place. Have you seen the bump in the ocean? The bump in the ocean. Aha, a trivia of Port Phillip Bay. I used to be in the Army and down at Portsea is right on the eastern point. We look across the bay and when the tide's going out of Port Phillip Bay, the ships actually have to go uphill over the bump to get into the bay. And then later in the day when the tide comes in, they can actually go downhill to get into the bay. Did you know that? There's a height difference. I spent a lot of time at Portsea.
    3:49
    My father lives there actually. Ah cool. Yeah, I guess there's an enormous amount of water that's got to go through that tiny little hole. Correct. And when you see the water move there you cannot believe how quick it moves. Yep. Because you can see it from the shoreline. Yeah and it actually makes it uphill or downhill depending on whether the tide's going in or out. That's your Portsea trivia, your Portville of Oat trivia. And the first and only shot fired in World War One was from the cannons of Portsy. Indeed, actually, and World War II, John. And World War II, thank you. We're going trivia, non-pinball trivia. I love it. That's cool. And my mate won lotto back in the 80s and bought the Portsy Golf Club, and he still owns it to today. You are kidding. Nah. He just said, I won lotto, I'm buying Portsy Golf Club because I love it. Yeah. I actually play that course. It's a magnificent course. Daffy Richards, if you're listening, which you won't be, but hello.
    4:48
    What a story. It's great. His grandson was on Australian Ninja Warrior a while ago. Wow. He was the golf pro on Australian Ninja Warrior that won it. Yeah, strong forearms. But that's chat about Victoria. That's good. But you do like to travel. I know that because I've seen you up here in Queensland a number of times, and I even ran into you in California in January of this year. Yeah, so that was a little surprise, or maybe not, because you do go over there a lot. I went to Indisc, and I went, we planned to go, I planned to go with a mate, actually. That's probably another story. No, no, no, I know the story, and you've got to tell it, but let me just clear up for people, and this will make it no less obvious, or no more obvious, I should say. Indisc stands for It Never Drains in Southern California.
    5:44
    California, which makes no sense to anyone under the age of 60. There used to be a song that was, it never rains in Southern California. So they trained it to range in Southern California. and now it is the unofficial or official almost non-IFPA Open World Championships of pinball. Recognised as probably one of the best, in inverted commas, tournaments in the world, pinball tournaments. The organisers want that inverted commas removed.
    6:28
    So what was it? Okay, let's start with the first part of your trip. You don't need to name names, but you were travelling with a mate and something happened on the immigration card. Yeah, so as Australians, we have to apply for a visa and it's a pretty straightforward process.
    6:48
    There's a number of questions you have to answer. For example, have you ever robbed a bank? Have you ever defrauded the tax department? Have you ever murdered anyone? I'm taking the piss a little, but they are quite obvious questions when you're answering them. It's all about that you're a good, upstanding citizen.
    7:08
    So my friend who went to Melbourne University and did commerce, of all things, and it's not an easy course, and he's got quite a big job, he answered one of those questions incorrectly.
    7:22
    So have you ever been to jail? It was a yes. It's a yes, no question. In fact, he has never been to jail, and he's been a very fine, upstanding Australian citizen. Did he ever say why he put yes? Well, he was just whizzing through them, I think. But they're all in a line. They're all no, all the way down the one column. It's pretty easy, isn't it? All no, no, no. Anyway, poor old X, Mr X. Mr X, yes.
    7:55
    He got in contact with the people that issue the visa and they said, he said, I made a mistake. I tried to re-enter it. And they said, oh, that's unfortunate because we cannot give you a visa. You'll have to come in and be interviewed. And he said, oh, this is after COVID. He said, oh, how long would that be? And they said, oh, probably about a year. Oh, jeez.
    8:23
    I'm from planning this trip and he tried everything. I'm sort of skipping over a lot of detail. He tried everything to try to reverse that yes to a no. And the only way he could get the visa to go and get a interview. In fact, he has got it because he's going with me in January. To the next in disc. Indeed he is. Well done. So everyone, look for the two Aussies that are hanging around. The one who's looking sheepish can't answer a yes-no question.
    8:56
    Oh, that's terrible. So you ended up flying over by yourself and did you go straight to California or where'd you go? I did. I've been to US quite a few times. I'm in IT and occasionally I've had to come over here in the past. So, and that's sort of one of the, I guess I've been in a lucky position that I can sort of string a pinball tournament along with part of my sort of education for my role at work. I try to really compact the travel which is probably a detriment to my pinball playing because you as you'd know John there you do suffer from jet lag and and when we're not so young anymore it's we're not Escher who can just travel halfway around the world and beat everyone if you're interested in beating everyone but like it doesn't I just rolled up a day or two I was in LAX maybe I spent a night there and then I got an Uber out to where the tournament's running in disc and how many days before or was it the morning of the start look I think I think I spent a night there and yeah i did i i spent a night down on the coast and i got on one of the trains or trams have you been in the public transport you know i thought at 10 o'clock in the morning i just got off the plane i thought look i'm gonna travel around i'll get a tram that goes down to the coast there because the public transport system in LA is pretty substantial I know they survive on the car but I'm a public transport sort of guy but I had a nasty sort of experience you could say I was an hour into US and let me I'll just say that I probably wouldn't do that again but I left to tell a tale and the next morning yeah so I had sort of 24 hours trying to stay away i need a little bit more info was it was there like a mugging or what was going on anyone that's gone on that train tram system like there's a lot of people that have a lot of like mental issues and of course there's the addiction issues they're you know that obvious when you when you travel and i guess i get what i got the wrong person who sort of caught a glimpse of me and I must have looked a bit vulnerable and nothing bad happened but it could have gone the other way. Yeah. That's all I'll say. But I just, like I've traveled all around a lot of places and that's the first time I had that experience. So I just got up and no one got hurt so we're all good. I was good to go. So 24 hours later. I remember years ago I was at New York I think it was my first time in New York as as an adult and my wife and I walk along the street and a bike rider a car turned in front of him and he nearly hit the car and he hit the back of the car with his hand and the driver stopped and got out and there was just a full-on punch-up right in front of me, and neither were big guys, and I just grabbed them both by the scruff of the neck, pulled them apart, arm's length, and said, get back in your car get back on your bike stop fighting and they both looked at me stunned and did what i said and this large gentleman came up to me afterwards and said you're not from here are you and i said no and he said never break up a fight in new york and i said why and he said because i'll both turn on you and you'll be killed and i went really he said yes oh okay i won't do that again you do have to be a little careful but yeah it's just but i don't want to paint a bad picture of america you just it's it's not it's not where you used to yeah no i i mean it was i say about america i've been there a number of times it's the most familiar unfamiliar place i had ever been to i've been to a lot of places in europe like our culture is sort of based on America in a lot of ways, so many ways. And then I expect it to be the first time I went there to see a whole lot of Australian sort of things. But we're about 180 degrees in some ways, like in some ways we're not. But, you know, it's sort of a culture shock for the Australians. And perhaps Americans have the same reaction when they come to Australia.
    13:30
    Well, things eat them and bite them and poison them. That's the thing. Right. So you got through your public transport experience and ended up in downtown Riverside. Did you say you caught public transport there or did you go to the coast? No, I actually caught an Uber, which is a significant cost because I was by myself.
    13:56
    I mean, what I'm trying to do is sort of minimize my time away from work and try to tie some sort of work activity into the whole experience. you know i mean it's probably not the wrong way to do it but you know that's what i did um so do it agree like i'd rather it's a whole lot better if you approach it like i didn't plan that out i could have rented a car i could have got a lift with someone i could you know there's a lot of should have's perhaps yes i think we'll rent a car this time okay yeah drive from la that's always fun too yeah i don't mind driving i've driven over there a little bit you know there's five-lane freeways or whatever. But that's probably the cheaper option. Yeah. Take a nap thing because I find the freeways and the turn-offs very intimidating.
    14:45
    Yes. So off to Riverside, okay. And when you got to Riverside this time in your expensive Uber, what did you think of the town? I was a bit surprised by the town. Yeah, the town has got all the things you need for a pinball tournament. Is that fair to say? A convention centre. Yeah.
    15:05
    Hey, but there's places to eat, right? Oh, unless you're Carl. Unless you're Carl. You heard about the first day Carl ate out, didn't you? No. Didn't you notice he was not there for the first two days of the tournament? Oh, you're kidding. He got food poisoning. Oh, okay. You'll have to tell me where that was. That was at the little place on the corner where everyone's getting sandwiches.
    15:28
    Yep, I know. Everybody else ate there and they were fine, but Carl succumbed. Oh, right, eh? I mightn't go there. But the town's an amazing little, it's almost a village town, I'd put it as. It's got this massive history and it's got an incredible divide. Got there and stayed in a hotel which was just around the corner from the massive convention centre. There's just these quaint little shops and restaurants and cafes and it was still all, being in January, it was still all lit up from Christmas. So it was very attractive at night, wasn't it? Did you wander around at night? Yeah. Yeah, the fallacy, I might add, that Americans can't make coffee, some people say that. Ooh. Because in Melbourne, you may know that we're quite snobbish about our coffee. That's partly because we had so many Italians that came out after the Second World War and they brought their coffee to the culture with them, which is fantastic. And so it's bred a whole lot of Melburnian snobs with coffee. And I travel around the world with my nose up in the air and especially when I go to US, I'm like, Jesus, their coffee is filthy. Think of Starbucks. What else do you need?
    16:44
    That's my case in point. Anyway, I did find some coffee in that town was as good as I've ever had in Melbourne.
    16:56
    Yep, absolutely stupendous. So that's an important part of the pinballing experience. It's the coffee. The one thing I want to do on the podcast, and I'm yet to talk my wife into it, she came over for the whole time and she went to the museums around Riverside and the attractions and taught me the history of the place. And it's a fascinating town. It was like the richest city in America in the 1920s and 30s because it was a massive fruit producing town. They produced like 80% of America's oranges or something. and you go into these hotels and on the walls are all the presidents got married in that hotel and the movie stars so apart from indisc it's a really nice town for you and all your partners or friends maybe not friends but to actually wander around and visit but do not cross the freeway we we want to do some laundry and there's a big freeway and railway line and when you cross over man the town changes. It's lower socioeconomic, we'll put it that way, and it feels a little bit more dangerous, a lot of boarded up shop fronts, but the side that the convention centre is on is really nice. Did you stay close? Yeah, so I stayed just the closest hotel because the way the format of the tournament, It's card-based. You want to be pretty close to a bed, especially if you've come all the way from Australia.
    18:31
    Because in between, I don't know if your listeners know about the card format. I know you run that in the Australian Open. You can explain it briefly. Yeah, so briefly, you have to put together,
    18:47
    you choose five or six games out of a bank of maybe 15, and you have to assemble six games and you cannot get to retry either game you need to go as well as you can on each of those tries and you get a point system and depending on where your score is if you get the top score you get 200 points the second score gets 198 etc then you assemble a card effectively which you get submitted and so you can't really have a bad game you have to have I think it's six games, six pretty reasonable, bloody great actually, pretty reasonable sort of scores. So it sort of rewards consistency as opposed to blowing stuff out of the water. It's about doing six consistent games. The thing I found is you're not under pressure as such because you play your games, you do as well as you can, but you're not competing against people directly. You're competing against the machine.
    19:56
    And at any stage, if you have a really crap game, that's where you've got to make a decision. Right. The cards, by the way, are actually your telephone and it's all done electronically on the wonderful software that Carl's runs called Never Drains. If you have a bad game, you can either dispose of that card and pay your $20 and get another one or play your next four games just for practice. So the whole time you're either practicing or you're playing and the pressure doesn't really come because you've got two days, haven't you? It seems a long time. I'm repeating this torture until you can string something together. How many players do you reckon were there? Maybe 300? Yeah. 250, 300? Yeah. And the thing is that the game cues, like Simon was saying, is you'll put your name on a queue to play a game you want to do, and sometimes you'll wait, what, an hour and a half if it's a long playing game? Yeah. So it's nice to go back to your hotel for a nap. That's right.
    20:57
    That sort of gets that. I think the approach you need to take, and as I've said to Mr X, you need to hit those games early. And I saw Esha rush in, and I'm like, what's Esha doing? Rushing onto the game. And then I actually went up to him and said, what are you doing? Is this practice? And that was actually his first game. So as soon as the door opens at 10 o'clock, I think it is, if you've paid for your first card, you put yourself on the queue. It's that simple. It's all through a magnificent app. And then you queue up and then you go straight on the game and someone records your score. So it works really seamlessly. But I think the approach is to sort of attack it early and not be afraid of trying to get a good card in. Because later on in the weekend, the queues get gigantic. And it's really, you're relying on just one game. Say you have four, I can't remember if it's five or six. Say you have four games that are fantastic and you've got that pressure of that fifth game to complete the card. You know, you don't want to be waiting an hour really for that game. Oh, there's other games to play with. I mean, the space is gigantic. Nothing like I've ever seen in Australia, of course. You know, it can put the pressure on a little. I've found that. That will be my approach this, in January, this January.
    22:27
    Get in early. Yeah, I reckon. Play really well. And then sit back and watch your card bleed, as you say. I'm in 20th overall and two hours later you go how come I'm in 40th now oh god I did say that last year what's this bleeding yeah no no it's part of the fun you know I really but you know it's partly like I love pinball and you know we have to speak about the people in pinball people like I've met so many great friends through pinball and it's obviously a love of mine It's not only competing. I mean, it's the game. I love the game. People that don't play pinball, if I explain it to them, they don't sort of get it often. Like I've played a lot of golf or other ball sports, but, you know, it's hard to – you cannot emulate digitally. Obviously the people in pinball are something that's a real drawcard for me. I've met so many great friends, you know, all around the world effectively because of that interest. You know, we're a quirky bunch. There's no doubt about us, but it's something I love. And when you travel anywhere in the world, they're the same people, effectively, but they're our quirks, but they speak a different language often. But you know that makes the environment really easy to sort of you know to have fun in It just a great experience It not just about the pinball You know the whole flying there the experience on public transport if you want to risk it.
    24:03
    You know, the Uber, when I shouldn't have got the Uber. It's, you know, seeing those players that I've been watching on streams. You know, I've known all these faces because I've watched them on streams and there they are in the same room. You know, it's like... Did you find them helpful and friendly? absolutely and you can ask those young kids who know rules far better than i ever will you can ask them pretty much they'll give you some tips and tricks there's no absolutely rarely have i discovered anyone that has held information i mean i'm i think people would recognize that i share information if people ask me and that's the approach that i encountered over there so you know people are helpful they're friendly it's like it's just a great few days of pinball indisc is purely a tournament as opposed to a number of shows we've talked about there's no manufacturers there there's there's no sales of anything there it's just a tournament set up very well by jim and carl and a number of other people so um you go there just to play how many of those games did you have to play that you'd never seen before? Yeah, so I guess I take it pretty seriously. So I like to know exactly. So if you're in that environment, obviously, there's pretty much the best players in the world there. So I guess you can't walk up to a game and not have a strategy. Even though you may not have played the game, you need to have thought about some sort of strategy, some sort of approach to how you're going to score. And it Of course, it doesn't always work, but you need a strategy. And I guess at that level, if you want to sort of progress on to the finals, you need to know where all the points are. Yeah, did you learn anything in particular from being there that you hadn't either seen or picked up in Australia? Just the average skill level. I think it's funny, some of it, it's what you don't see in Australia because I play a lot of competition pinball in Australia. something called a loop pass when certain games let me think of something when you go around the orbit and you hit the ball from the right flipper and to the left orbit and it will come back to the right flipper and there's the techniques that people will use to stop that ball like a live catch for example which is pretty much 99% of Australians but Americans do not do that they'll do a drop catch and they'll be over to control the ball which is probably a safer approach but you know it's funny seeing those great players play and you do you pick up like you need to be able to move the game like being able to you know that subtle movement which is so much an important part of if you're interested in it playing great pinball it's like when you see them live and you see them how much they move the game like it's some people consider it a sport but or maybe it's not but there certainly is a bit of agility and strength required and subtleness uh that's certainly not evident in say a video game of course yeah i mean the one thing i've noticed so just over the past probably four years is the amount of hitting halfway up the cabinet now that the young guys do. We never did that. And they never did it in the past. We always nudged forward. We always gave the lockdown bar a bit of a push from side to side. But these guys are constantly reaching up, getting it off the side rails, just diverting the ball so early. I sort of equate it to playing squash. When someone hits a squash ball, the really good players know exactly the angle that ball's going as it leaves the racket. Like old people like me are watching the ball come close to the flipper and wondering which one it's going to go to. And these guys are picking things so early. It's great to watch. And no wonder they get tired and their arms get sore. Yes, and you're right. That's a recent addition, isn't it? And I noticed the ball.
    28:13
    And we haven't. Australians sort of watch it and they'll pick it up eventually. But I think because the tilt bob, I mean, the whole nature of it, the build of a pinball machine with the tilt bop down the bottom left, I guess if you're hitting it in the middle, then you're not sort of rocking the tilt bop so much, but you're giving it a big, you know, just the impact from the side of your hand is enough to sort of change the direction of the ball.
    28:40
    But yeah, those sort of things that, you know, only nerdy people like us, John, would take note of. I love it. So Indy says the main tournament. There's the classic match play prior. Did you get into that? No, I did that last year and I purposely didn't do it this year. What, too tired afterwards or too hard to play? Yeah, I've got a different plan of attack.
    29:10
    Yeah, I played that last year. I love the fact that it was all on the old classics and you start the comp and you're looking up pin tips, like Dave Matthews' pin tips thing, and you're working out what to play. By about round four, you're looking at the scores going, let's just have fun. Yeah, that's fun. Because some of these guys play classics so well, but it's a good night. It's good fun. And then there's the high stakes.
    29:34
    So for those who don't know, it's like, ah, what was it last year? $100 a card to play your five games, and then the winner took home, I think, 15,000 US in cash. That's right. Did you go in that? I did. I did go in that because I thought I'm going all the way to play pinball.
    29:55
    What's another couple of hundred bucks? I mean, really, it's an enormous expense. And I know when I speak to people and say I'm going overseas to play pinball and they give me the weird look, you know, I mean, It's not lost in how fortunate I am. So, you know, what's another $500 in the scheme of things? Something I love, you know. You've got to make the most of it while you can because you never know what's around the corner, John. That's right. Life's a living. How did you go in the high stakes?
    30:29
    Look, I didn't qualify in anything. Different plan of attack. This year you're going to qualify and stuff. I remember a year before this one, Anthony Cirillo, of course, from Perth, went over to the old Indisc. Were you at that one at the Dope Farm? No, no. No. Anthony did well. He qualified the finals of the high stakes. He did too. Yeah. It just came from nowhere. Well done. I think he may have just had one entry, which is astounding.
    31:07
    Some people put, you can put a few bucks through it. It's like the poker machines in a way, but not really, because there's skill involved.
    31:16
    But yeah, Tony, I call him Tony, but Anthony did really well. He did tell me about that. I wonder, I must have a look at the games he played. But anyway, you can get, you know what it's like, John, sometimes you just play well. And times when you play better than you do, like I'm not enormously consistent like those young guys, but sometimes I can play better than my average would. Get in the zone.
    31:44
    Yeah, you will. You will. What else did you take away from Indisc apart from a lot of competitors at an extremely high standard and a really difficult comp with the card system, but a lovely town and excellent setup? Did you take anything else away from it? Well, I'll be back next year. That's what I took away from it. That's how good it is. All right. And when you finished the Indies, because you didn't go home, did you? Where did you go? Okay, so this is post-COVID.
    32:13
    So in Melbourne, during COVID, we had the – Italy and Melbourne, Australia, had the most draconian lockdown rules of anyone. And, you know, people can argue for good reason because people in Italy were dying in front of the hospital, for example. So we had the, it went on and on. And so we all went a bit stir crazy. I was just desperate to get out of Australia and play pinball after we got the checkered flag and I went to District 82.
    32:46
    Excellent. Which is very easy to get to, I understand, because I haven't been there. I went the long way. I don't think there's a short way.
    32:56
    What's the long way? We went to Chicago. I went to LAX. Right. I should have got a, anyway, should have, could have, would have, didn't. Not another Uber, please.
    33:05
    LAX to Chicago is a long way. I got an aircraft from LAX to, yeah, to Chicago. I should have flown into Chicago from Singapore, but never mind. I sort of wanted to go to LA anyway. I wouldn't do that again. But, yeah, District 82, I ended up there finally. I think I caught a small plane. I think from, hang on, is this Chicago to the small port is Green Bay. So I caught a little, about a 28-seater from Chicago to Green Bay. So I didn't drive. But, again, that setup is absolutely fantastic. So you haven't been there, John? No, I haven't been there. Emily's been there, the cow. Oh, she has. I saw her on the stream. Yeah, Emily was there with us one time. Yep. But old man misses out. Yeah. Like that is like you got it from an Australian perspective. Like there's all these great old games and they're looked after by Eric so brilliantly. They all play absolutely perfectly. They're great examples. Like we, you know, a lot of the games we get here are a little tired, like my solid state ones and my AMs. Like they just don't get the work that Eric would put into them. he's so good technically. Not only did they have the latest Stern games, but of course they have a fast, there's 140, 150 games there. A lot of EMs and some solid states. That was a four-day tournament. Actually, sorry, four-day pinball of which there's five tournaments or something. I actually came second in that. Well done. Yes. How do you survive that long without Wow. Because I know they don't allow a lot of sleep when you do that. How do you survive? Like, you've just got to love pinball. I mean, you know, it's a bit – there's a lot of match play. I don't know if you want to get into formats, but it's a different – they don't run that sort of card system there. You're in a four, and depending on how the format is, that you typically play the four that you're ranked after the first round. So it's Swiss pairing, I think they refer to it as. Yep. So typically they do match play there, which is, but they might have a classics comp, but they try to, it's referred to as the... Whopper farm. Whopper farm, yes. So you can generate a lot of points for a lot of great players that go there. You know, you see all these guys, if you ever watched the tournament pinball at all and you see all these people women and men of course that you seen on stream And there they are in this one gigantic room
    35:57
    The viewers are ringing me now going, who did you come second to, Simon? Who beat you? Look, I think it was the last shit tournament. So it was no one. Go on, say the world number one or someone. I can't remember. I think it was the last shit tournament. The people that didn't qualify get to play. but there was 80 players. Only a small one, yeah. The thing is, I've got a little something that was second from US against some considerable players. Nice. In my competition world, that's a pretty good outcome. And editor's note again, I checked the result. Congratulations to Jordan Semro who beat Simon and took out first in that tournament. and the other rubbish players that he talked about that you may have heard of if you follow tournament pinball were players that he beat, such as Neil Graff and Leslie Ruckman and Cassidy Milonowski and Eric Thorin, the owner, Luke Nahorniak, Sunshine Bond and about 60 or 70 other players. So he didn't do too bad at all. But up at that area at Green Bay, wherever it is, accommodation easy, that sort of stuff? or do you crash on a couch or what happens? Yes. So I had a motel.
    37:20
    Actually, that was the trip that Mr. X had to roll up on, but he got the answer wrong with a no. So he didn't get his visa. So actually, sorry, that was the trip for Mr. X. So that was the one I went solo on. It's so long ago I've forgotten. I'm sorry about that, John. It's all right. Anyway, there's a lot of motels. It's quite, like Wisconsin is, where can I compare it to in Australia? It's the Riverina.
    37:53
    The Riverina with more cheese. I mean, it's a farming area, isn't it? Yes. Let me think about this. Yeah, because America is such a huge place and it's, like, it's land size is Australia, but they don't have as much desert as we do. And they have these, the diversity, you know, So we've only got Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth. But, you know, Melbourne's quite big, Sydney's quite big, but they've got a lot of large cities and there's such diversity there. So you can travel between states and the enormous change in people. So it's not as evident in Australia because we only have 28 million people. But everyone, again, pinball people, got to love them. Everyone was fantastic. Fantastic. There's some pretty hardcore competitors that don't speak. I did notice that the American way is sometimes, not all people, but certainly Australians take it a little less, can I say, seriously, and there's a little bit more beer drinking.
    39:01
    Is that unfair? Who would have thought? Yeah, I think we drink a lot more beer, But they take it, like I take it seriously, and I can maybe take it too seriously sometimes. But Americans, I think, on the general, I'm generalising, of course, do take it seriously, and there's often not a lot of talking or a lot of banter that you make. Is that unfair, Geoff? No, I think, yeah, I've noticed that. They're all extremely friendly, but two things happen. One is a lot of them are under the drinking age because it's 21, whereas in Australia from 18 to 21, there's an awful lot of practice goes on with beer drinking. The other thing is, yeah, the high echelon, the top 20 or 30 players, they have an ability to concentrate that we lose that ability after the second beer. That's right. They shut everything out.
    40:00
    All that banter sort of disappears. But that's, you know, often playing for a few bucks. So I understand. A few bucks, yeah. Like 15 grand sometimes.
    40:11
    So all right. So you're going back to Indisc again. I think it's end of January or start of Feb. I can't remember. End of 2025. Any other pinball events on your bucket list or is that it? What about the one in the east that they've started up again? Actually, I'm thinking London, the one that Neil runs. That's right. The UK Open.
    40:33
    Yeah. Yeah, so that's in September, I think. Yep, so it depends. So my wife, we both work full time, so it's about how we string that together, those trips. So obviously I can't be sneaking away to play pinball two times a year overseas. Of course you can. There's a reason. So the UK Open's run exactly the same as Indisc with the card system, run more the capability by Neil Lecrae. I mean, the thing I find about going to the UK is it's so much further than the USA. Yes. I can handle a 14- and 15-hour plane trip. It's the 24, 25, 26-hour that you have to stop in Singapore or Dubai. It's just a nightmare. So I think if I'm going across the UK open, I'm going to spend another two to three weeks in Europe looking around. That's right. And I think I'd do the same. Absolutely. My wife speaks to the French, so absolutely. and you're just across the channel there from that. So, yes, that would be the plan, but who knows? But, yeah, love travelling and stringing in a pinball tournament. Cool. All right. Well, thanks for the chat. Look, that's covered a lot of ground, which we want. You've represented Australia. Are you going to try to climb that ladder again to make it to the IFPA Worlds representing Australia?
    41:57
    Or are those days behind you? Well, I'd give it. I like that. You know, that's serious on another level. I don't know if you've had Lambo and Tom on there. I don't know their experience. But thanks for chatting, and it's a great insight, again, into pinball travels for Australians overseas. And we'll catch you around the traps. See you later. Thanks very much, John. Thanks for the opportunity. No worries. So there we have it. Fill out your forms correctly, but have fun in America if you manage to get there. And again, don't forget to tune in to Twitch TV for IE Pinball. We'll be streaming in disc all weekend from the 24th to the 26th of January 2025.
    42:45
    And best of luck to our two Aussie players, Esha Lefkoff and Emily Cosson, who are both heading over there, and of course Simon and any other Australians that managed to make the trip. and just to finish my favourite Aussie Crawls song again the band from Melbourne with the boys light up which is sort of a dedication to all those Colorado pinball players who enjoy lighting up or eating gummies, whatever see ya
    43:26
    I won't tell you about my mountain home Where all the ladies' names are Joan Where husband works back late at night.
    44:00
    Horses are up for trousers down with the horse that's on a business flight. It's an accident in a Mercedes drive.
    44:10
    I hope that driver's coming out alive. Darling, it is a door city. That lady, she's so corseted. She's got 50 ways to beat that boy up to murder. This is one and only, but that loveless is so lonely She pumps him full of breakfast and she sends him on his way What a sing-song dance, what a performance What a cheap dance show, oh no, no, no, no, no Then the boys light up, then the boys light up Then the boys light up Light up, light up Silently she opens the drawer Mother's little helper is coming out for more. Strategically positioned before the midday show. The back is arched, those lips are crossed, repeating low by low. Later at the party, all the MPs rave about the hummus she's been given and the money that they say. Herb and his skin lotion, him promotion too. That flatting surface paradise With the ocean view Wanna sing some dance Wanna work for man Wanna cheat and stove No, no, no, no, no Then boys lie down Then boys lie down, lie down, lie down Then boys lie down Thank you. We'll see you next time. Thank you. We'll be right back.