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EP26 PinTalk with Sterling and Eric

The Pinball Studio Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 2m·analyzed·Jun 26, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Hosts discuss Sonic (JJP) and Transformers (Stern) releases, market trends, and designer performance.

Summary

Sterling Martin and Eric Edwards discuss recent pinball releases including Jersey Jack Pinball the Hedgehog and Transformers. They cover South Carolina's legalization of pinball for minors, Sonic's cabinet artwork tiers and innovative topper design, and Transformers' mixed reception due to missing Optimus Prime transformation mech and variable code quality. They explore market dynamics around licensing, nostalgia appeal, and theme choices, with discussion of designer Elliot Eismin career trajectory from John Wick to Transformers.

Key Claims

  • South Carolina recently legalized pinball for minors after approximately 70 years of prohibition

    high confidence · Eric Edwards stated: 'I'm coming from the state where pinball is now legal after 70-ish years of being illegal.'

  • Jersey Jack Pinball the Hedgehog is based on Sonic Generations, not the original Sonic game

    high confidence · Sterling Martin: 'this one's based on Sonic Generations, which is not a game I've heard of. I assumed it would be based on the original Sonic.'

  • JJP could not secure Sega branding/logo for the Sonic game ending

    high confidence · Eric: 'they couldn't get the Sega thing at the end of the game. Yeah, that kind of sucks. And they weren't down with that.'

  • Transformers has no playable mech for Optimus Prime and Megatron only shoots the ball without movement

    high confidence · Eric: 'the pro is if you like mechs and stuff, there's nothing there. There's nothing... Megatron still shoots the ball. It just doesn't pivot left and right and up and down.'

  • Sterling recreated the Sonic CE cabinet artwork on his phone in 1 minute 17 seconds to demonstrate its simplicity

    high confidence · Sterling: 'he sent me a screenshot video of him making almost the exact same artwork, the whole process of him making it on his phone in one minute and 17 seconds.'

  • Transformers lacks consumer hype compared to Pokemon, with arcade patrons showing minimal interest

    medium confidence · Eric: 'there was no hype for this game... when I tell them Transformers coming... nobody here... nobody's like people just come in. Pokemon here yet?'

  • Elizabeth Gieske is the lead designer on Transformers and this is her first lead position

    high confidence · Sterling: 'This was Elizabeth Elizabeth Gieske first time as lead on a game'

  • Stern intentionally under-codes games at launch to see community reaction before full code development

    medium confidence · Sterling: 'Stern kind of waits on drawing the whole picture from what the code is going to be on launch day because they do want to see how the community reacts'

Notable Quotes

  • “The artwork's basic. It's real... characters with a transparent background and you're just laying them where you want them on top of a starburst background.”

    Sterling Martin @ ~10:00 — Criticism of Sonic CE cabinet artwork design compared to mid-tier; indicates quality/effort perception affects tier differentiation

  • “Transformers. Nobody here. I'll be honest with you. But it's a fun game, man.”

    Eric Edwards @ ~25:00 — Indicates lack of consumer hype/excitement for Transformers in arcade setting despite game quality

  • “It's called Transformers. Like something needs to transform. And, you know, people's argument is, you know, the old one didn't have anything that transforms. I'm like, yeah, but this is the new one.”

    Sterling Martin @ ~75:00 — Consumer expectation mismatch: title implies transformation mechanic which is absent in Pro tier

  • “You got the touch. You got the power! I should have done the Boogie Nights, but how great would that have been?”

    Sterling Martin @ ~65:00 — Positive reception to licensed music integration; suggests strong desire for deeper IP/music licensing in games

  • “If you can't bash somebody in the nuts, then he should transform. I figure it should be one or the other.”

    Eric Edwards @ ~80:00 — Summarizes core design principle: Transformers Pro needs a signature memorable mech moment

  • “I think that game came out like a rocket. When they announced it, everybody was clamoring to get one... Something just killed it and then it never really recovered.”

    Eric Edwards @ ~55:00 — X-Men launched with massive hype but poor code/quality killed momentum; cautionary tale for launches

  • “These are usually going in homes of 50 and 60 year old men. So things like let Steve Ritchie do a new Terminator 2... That theme still resonates to a lot of people.”

    Eric Edwards @ ~45:00 — Market segmentation insight: primary buyers are older demographics favoring nostalgic 80s/90s IP

Entities

Sterling MartinpersonEric EdwardspersonElizabeth GieskepersonElliot EisminpersonSteve RitchiepersonKeith ElwinpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: South Carolina legalized pinball for minors after ~70 years of prohibition, removing regulatory barrier to arcade operations and child-friendly venues

    high · Eric Edwards: 'I'm coming from the state where pinball is now legal after 70-ish years of being illegal. Now kids can play legal.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack's Sonic features distinct cabinet artwork strategies across tiers (CE basic starburst vs mid-tier full scene), though community perception suggests tier quality positioning may be inverted

    high · Sterling demonstrated CE artwork could be replicated in 1:17; argues mid-tier has superior artistic composition and should be premium tier

  • ?

    design_innovation: Sonic features innovative topper integrating LCD display with physical motorized elements and shadow effects, representing advancement in thematic integration and mechanical/digital hybrid design

    high · Eric: 'they've got motorized Sonic, and when he moves, they've got the little shadows of him kind of thing' with synchronized LCD elements

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Shift toward premium licensed IP (Harry Potter, Pokemon) with concern about newer property selections (Transformers, John Wick) lacking generational resonance with primary buyer demographic (50-60 year old men)

    medium · Eric: 'most people buying these are 50 and 60 year old men... these companies really just need to keep diving more into the nostalgic side of things'

  • ?

    product_concern: Transformers Pro lacks Optimus Prime transformation mech (removed during development) and Megatron lacks interactive movement, creating design perception that game lacks thematic centerpiece moment

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.187

0:00
Hello and welcome to episode 26 of the Pinball Studio podcast. I'm your host Sterling Martin and today we've got Eric Edwards back from Radioactive. I'm Mark of Arcade from Aiken, South Carolina, and we're going to do another episode of Pintalk. But first off, let's mention the sponsors. Old Town Pinball, do you need a newer used pinball machine? Check out his website, oldtownpinball.com. Also, the electric playground, time to level up your game room with a new topper. Just head over to your web browser, type in teppinball.com. And last but not least, Spooky Pinball. Order your Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Scooby-Doo, or Looney Tunes today and make damn sure you're on the list for Goonies. I'm going to go ahead and call it that even though no one has officially told me anything about it. Anyway, welcome back to the show, Eric. How are you doing, sir? I'm doing great, man. Thanks for having me on again. I'm coming from the state where pinball is now legal after 70-ish years of being illegal. Now kids can play legal, and so I'm no longer a habitual lawbreaker by allowing kids to play pinball in our place. So congrats on that. I was always confused how in South Carolina it was illegal for minors to play pinball, even if it's like a kid-friendly arcade and not a bar. Like one of those laws that was still around somehow in that state, it was mind-boggling, really. Yeah, it's basically unenforced, but I tell you it does have consequences. I mean, we were trying to originally, one of the first places we looked at putting the arcade was a city-owned place. And again, I said on a previous podcast or one of your previous episodes that I went in front of the city council and made a bid to get this place. And when I didn't get it, one of the insiders, who I'm sure doesn't want to be named here, but told me that the reason I didn't get it, because one of the people who wanted it said that, I guess the person who ended up getting it, said that, that's what I was told, said that the reason that it was illegal for the city to, They engage in illegal activities, even if it's unenforced. So that kind of supposedly and it worked out best for me anyway, because our spots way better. But, you know, at the time, it kind of sucked. So it's nice that it's, you know, all in the up and up now. Yeah, that's awesome. I don't think Georgia's got that law. We have the weird law that like the the lottery commission runs like the whole pinball side of like the coin drop and the licensing and the stamps. Is it the same for South Carolina with all of that? Thank goodness it is not. I could not imagine a third party, a non-governmental entity being able to come in and shut your place down. That is crazy to me. I don't know how they allowed that to happen, but I'm so thankful I'm not in Georgia. Yeah, it just doesn't seem like the two things relate. Like there's nothing gambling related to pinball other than maybe a payout like from a tournament or something. But, you know, even that's, you know, it's a game of skill, not chance. You know, I guess Roger Sharp proved that a long time ago. Yeah, I guess. It's all in whose palms are getting greased, I guess. You know what came out? We're recording on this on a Wednesday, so what came out yesterday was the...

  • John Wick (Pro) contract/badge system featured in Insider Connected was abandoned after initial promotional period

    medium confidence · Eric: 'They did that for like a month and quit... I don't think the contracts are coming back. They might do it here and there, but they made it seem like, oh, this is going to happen all the time.'

  • Optimus Prime transformation mech was removed from Transformers during development due to technical or schedule issues

    high confidence · Eric referencing Stern meetup: 'Seth said... yeah, we had to pull Optimus out. He did, you know, transform, but he didn't get into details. He's just like we had some issues.'

  • “When I bought video games back in the day, I could give a shit less about the graphics... the first thing that is important is, is it fun to play?”

    Sterling Martin @ ~60:00 — Design philosophy prioritization: gameplay > code > theme > toys/visuals

    • Sonic the Hedgehog
    game
    Transformersgame
    John Wickgame
    X-Mengame
    Jawsgame
    Walking Dead Remasteredgame
    Harry Pottergame
    Pokemongame
    Old Town Pinballcompany
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Donperson
    Kerry Hardyperson
    [name withheld pending review]person
    Tim Sextonperson
    Insider Connectedproduct
    Expression Lighting Kitproduct

    high · Eric: 'it's called Transformers. Like something needs to transform'; confirmed removed by Stern: 'we had to pull Optimus out... we had some issues'

  • ?

    code_update: Stern strategy to under-code games at launch to gauge community reaction before full development; Transformers credited with stronger launch code than recent releases due to designer priority

    medium · Sterling: 'Elizabeth Gieske really wanted to bring a game that was fun right out of the gate... worked her ass off on making sure there was enough in the game on launch day'

  • $

    market_signal: Transformers shows minimal arcade operator/customer hype despite quality gameplay; Pokemon generated significantly higher excitement, suggesting license/theme appeal varies dramatically

    high · Eric: 'when I tell them Pokemon was coming... they light up... Transformers. Nobody here.'

  • ?

    product_concern: John Wick's contract/badge system (Insider Connected integration) was promoted as ongoing feature but abandoned after ~1 month, creating trust deficit in platform features

    medium · Eric: 'They did that for like a month and quit... I don't think the contracts are coming back. They might do it here and there'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Jersey Jack unable to secure Sega branding/logo for Sonic game ending, representing licensing limitation within secured IP deal

    high · Eric: 'they couldn't get the Sega thing at the end of the game... that kind of sucks'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Community preference hierarchy for pinball machines: shot design/gameplay > code depth > theme appeal > visual toys/cosmetics

    high · Sterling: 'Can they make a bad shooting game fun? No... when I bought video games, I could give a shit less about the graphics... is it fun to play?'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Elliot Eismin's transition from mechanical engineer to lead designer shows mixed results; John Wick received mixed reception; Transformers reputation depends on premium tier mechs and Elizabeth Gieske code execution

    medium · Eric: 'He has been a mechanical engineer for Stern... then apparently he wanted to design a pinball machine, so they let him do John Wick, which has mixed reviews'

  • ?

    product_launch: X-Men launch pattern: strong initial hype → quality control/code issues revealed → momentum lost → late code improvements fail to recover player interest as community moves to next release

    high · Eric: 'that game came out like a rocket... Something just killed it and then it never really recovered... by the time they start coding the game... people have moved on'

    • 3:53
    JJP finally dropped the old Sonic bomb. What do you think about that? I think it looks really cool. I had my doubts about it. So I do have a little bit of criticism. I probably do like the mid-tier game more than the CE, but I think the game looks really cool. I'm not a huge fan of the big upper playfields that are made out of the acrylic, but they say they're putting a protective coating or something on it, so hopefully that keeps them from getting hazy or anything. But yeah, it looks like a cool game. My buddy Don just left there a couple hours ago from playing it, and he was telling me about it. You say you like the mid-tier. Why is that? What is it about the mid-tier? I just like – I'm not a big fan. I do like red powder coat, but I feel like Sonic, I would rather have the blue, and I just like the cabinet artwork more. I feel like the CE is more of just a background, like a blue Starburst background, and then you got kind of the characters kind of just placed on top, Where the mid-tier, the cabinet is more like a full scene. I feel like it's better artwork to me. I have to say one of the craziest, when I saw it I didn't give much of a thought to the artwork on it. But then you sent me a video of you on your phone.
    5:16
    You were telling me how easy it is, how kind of basic that artwork is. That's what kind of bugged me about it. Where the other one, there's no way I could lay that out in that kind of fashion that quickly. That's why I like the mid-tier better. It's more of like a scene from Sonic versus a clip art with a background, if you know what I'm saying. I didn't look at the – I haven't seen the – actually, I saw it, but I didn't pay much attention to the mid-tier. But just for the people at home know what we're talking about, Sterling sent me a screenshot video of his phone when he saw the artwork on Sonic. He sent me a screenshot video on his phone of him making almost the exact same artwork, the whole process of him making it on his phone in one minute and 17 seconds.
    6:03
    Yeah, that's why it kind of bugs me. The artwork's basic. It's real. Like I said, it's just, you know, characters with, you know, a transparent background and you're just laying them where you want them on top of a starburst background. I'm not saying it looks bad. It looks fine. But I feel like the two art packages probably should have flipped. I feel like the other one probably took the artist a lot longer to make.
    6:28
    But it's fine. Yeah, hopefully longer than a minute and 17. Like, you know, most people are just going to slide these in between two games and you're not even going to see it anyway.
    6:37
    Yeah, that's the way it is in our place. I don't see the sides anyway. So what do you think about the game? I heard an interview, Loser Kids podcast had Steve Ritchie on and he talked about the game and it sounded pretty neat. He put a lot out there on it and I kind of like, I know you say you're against the clear upper play field, but I think it's pretty neat. I've never, I guess if I've ever seen any clear upper play fields that you're supposed to be able to see through, I guess they've always been so dirty that I haven't been able to see through them. And I assume that's your problem with it, right? Well, it's like fingerprints on glass. I just don't like it. And they look great at first usually, but usually over time, you know, a steel ball and plastic, which one's harder than, you know, the steel ball and just the slightest bit of grime usually creates like a little haze. Pinball machines get dirty. Even if you try to stay on top of it, I mean, I'll clean my jaws. And then like, you know, two days later, I'm like, what the hell just happened? And ours is ours is the next day with Jaws. There's something about it, man. I don't know what it is. I guess the colors of the artwork. Yeah. Light blue, nothing to break it up or anything. There are ball trails on Earth the day after we clean it. Yeah. So so does Sonic look like a badass game to you or what? Um, me personally, I'm not a buyer. I'm I know plenty of people are excited and I think the game does look really cool. I typically just stick with the Sterns though. I've never been a huge JJP fan myself. I don't even know how to put my finger on it exactly what it is. I used to say the flippers are weak and all that, but they've since fixed that. I'm not a huge fan of the massive screens in the back box. However, it does make total sense for Sonic. Yeah, so this one's based on Sonic Generations, which is not a game I've heard of. I assumed it would be based on the original Sonic. Right. And he did say they couldn't get the Sega thing at the end of the game. Yeah, that kind of sucks. And they weren't down with that. See, I never had one. It looks pretty cool. I never had a Sega, so I can't relate to it like a lot of people. Like the Sega, it's like now that you say that I mentioned, I remember it, but it's not like Mario imprinted in my brain. Yeah, yeah, true. I like the little displays. You see the displays and you can change it and you hit it one time and you're going to get rings. Yeah. Actually, I don't know much about Sonic.
    9:04
    It's hard for me to tell you what the other thing is. The game is beautiful. My buddy, Kerry Hardy, he's super excited about it. But he's a huge Sonic fan. He ran to his closet and was like, look at all my Sonic games. I still have them all.
    9:18
    So he can relate to it and he's really excited about it. So I think, you know, to certain people this will really appeal to and certain other people, you know, it might just be another game. But, I mean, gameplay is going to be everything. Once people get these in their hands and in an arcade, you know, and play it and see how good the code is, I think that's really going to say whether or not this is going to be an amazing game. When you see the game, like on Flippin' Out did a video, and when you see that game, to me it looks like Toy Story. There's the bright colors and just the way it presents. It looks not – I'm not talking about the play field, but just the game itself looked to me like Toy Story. I can definitely see some similarities. I can definitely see their brothers or sisters or cousins or something.
    10:02
    Are you going to get one for the arcade? I think it definitely makes sense for an arcade to get one. I'd like to have one. We're still trying to be a demo location for that. Whether or not we'll pick it up will depend on kind of the reaction people have to it. And so in the demo, maybe we can get one for a little while, you know, as a demo unit to let people come in and try it out. But if we dig it, then we'll pick it up from there. Yeah. My problem with JJP is just they're so damn expensive. You know, if I want to play it cheap on a Stern, it's like I can always just get the Pro for $7,000. And unfortunately, there's nothing in the ballpark of that from JJP. You're already above the premium price just for the lowest tier. That's true. But they're still doing the arcade edition, which is pretty cool. And it still doesn't have any change. It's the exact same play field and all the mechs on it and everything. But you do lose, basically you lose the art package and the toppers, which I have to say the topper is one thing that I'm surprised nobody's done yet. is really doing what looks like a really good job of integrating an LCD in the back with physical elements in the front. So you've got motorized Sonic, and when he moves, they've got the little shadows of him kind of thing. Yeah, and when he hits the, again, I know Sonic, but it's called an Eggmobile or something, whatever the little guy flies around in. Sometimes there's parts that look like it falls off it, stuff like that. So that's pretty cool. No, yeah. That's pretty innovative. I agree. Like I said, I think the game's really cool. It just doesn't speak to me theme-wise, and then they're really kind of more the expensive side of pinball machines. I'm going to kind of wait for something else probably, but I think it's going to do really well for J.J.P. Probably not quite as good as Harry Potter, but Steve Ritchie, Sonic does appeal to a lot of people, so I don't think it's a bad theme by any means. I don't know what they could do to top the Harry Potter. I think it's licensed when it comes down to it. I mean, Harry Potter was beat up by Pokemon in terms of license size, but obviously nobody can really say that Sonic is similar. I wouldn't think. I don't think Sonic's, I don't know. I've had like a bunch of weird hobbies of collecting like movie memorabilia and stuff. And then like through those hobbies, you like figure out how big like the fan groups are on it. Some of them are like 10 times the size of others. Things like Back to the Future and stuff, I think if J.J.P. had that, I think it could possibly rival Harry Potter just because of who's mainly buying these pinball machines. I think it would appeal to a lot of people in that age group where Harry Potter is a massive theme. But at the end of the day, who's buying them? Probably not as hot as some of like the 80s and 90s movies that, you know, people are really, you know, a bigger fan of, I guess you could say. I feel like Harry Potter is still the younger generation a little bit. I think Harry Potter captured people because it's the magical world. It's that wild stuff. You wanted to see what they did with it. And I don't know. It's the movies are, you know, heavy special effects or a bunch of wild stuff going on. So I think that probably helps drive Harry Potter. But if you're talking about, you know, the kind of the nostalgia factor, where do you think Harry Potter, for example, would stack up against Stern's newest Transformers? Oh, hmm. That's kind of tricky. I think those are probably about even. I don't, like I said, just being a collector of so many things through movies and stuff, I've never heard of like a massive Transformers fan base to this day. I know it was popular back in the day, but like are people still like celebrating all the anniversaries and doing massive meetups with like a thousand people and putting on big events? You know, I haven't heard that from from the Transformers community, at least. Have you gotten your hands on one yet? No, I'm I'm I want to play one. It looks really interesting to me. I know you probably ordered one for the arcade or a couple of them. So, yeah, tell me about it. So, you know, one thing that struck me really oddly on this one was I found in my own personal experience, this is just anecdotal, is that there was no hype for this game. In the reality that I live in, you know, the people that come to our arcade is when I used to tell people Pokemon was coming, man, people would, you could see them just light up at the counter. Yeah. And when I tell them Transformers coming, which I do, as soon as I find out games coming, I start telling our regulars and stuff. Oh, OK. And, you know, nobody's like people just come in. Is Pokemon here yet? Any day when it's going to be here? And it's going to be this week, next week. Right. Transformers. Nobody here. I'll be honest with you. But it's a fun game, man. Yeah, it looks really. Check it out. Did you get the premium or pro?
    15:05
    Well, as a location, it's a pretty easy choice for us to get the pro and then maybe upgrade to the premium based on how people take it. Because the pro comes out first, obviously it's cheaper, so basically what we'll do is run the pro and then if people just are really digging it, then we'll upgrade it. But I was really kind of, it's not really, the game looks great. And I tell you one thing you have to have if you in on Transformers and maybe the Premium 2 you have to get the Expression Lighting Kit I got the game and the dark spots in it just kind of make the game look a little dull
    15:46
    We also got a Walking Dead remastered and I'd ordered an Expression Lighting Kit for it. But when I looked at both the games, I was like, Transformers needs it more. So I put it in Transformers and it made a world of difference. The whole game kind of lights up now and it just makes it much more appealing. But it's a really fun game. The code seems to be really nice for, and I've only played it like three times. So this is my personal experience of the three games or so that I've played on it, plus the feedback I've gotten on it, is that the code is pretty far along for what we've become accustomed with with Stern, Which is you get it, you know, you got about a day's worth of game to play out of it and then you better wait. So this was Elizabeth Gieske's first time as lead on a game and I think she really wanted to bring a game that was fun right out of the gate. So I think she worked her ass off on making sure there was enough in the game on launch day. But I do truly think Stern kind of waits on drawing the whole picture from what the code is going to be on launch day because they do want to see how the community reacts to the code that is currently going to be with the game when it launches. Do people like it? Do they dislike it? You certainly don't want to code an entire game, put it out there, and people don't enjoy the code of the game. So I kind of get where Stern's coming from. But at the same time, you got to put out something that is fun on launch day. Well, it seems like, though, on the other side of that coin, it seems like the bigger critique they take is games not being coded properly. And to the point that I think it kills game launches like with X-Men. With X-Men, people got it and they were finding out there was just nothing there. And then they moved on. And by the time they start coding the game where it's like, oh, man, it's a fun game, or even John Wick, which is getting a decent amount of code, by the time it starts getting there, people have moved on and they're not going backwards. They're looking at the next thing. You know, if you're going to put this much into a game, you've got to have the A team. You can't have the C team.
    18:07
    Well, I've been pretty excited with – I mean, I had honestly low expectations for this game. I watched Transformers as a kid, but I'm not. Like you're talking about, I'm not, you know. Are you still a fan?
    18:21
    I'm a fan, but I can't watch the cartoons that I watched as a kid. I tried watching like He-Man and G.I. Joe. Sometimes they come on like Amazon Prime or something, and I'll cut them on. And after about an episode, I'm like, how did I watch this shit as a kid? But I still like it. I still have fond memories of it. Right, yeah. I totally get that. It's nostalgic to you, but you probably don't care to watch any of the material nowadays. And I think that does translate to some of these fan groups like I was talking about. I can still watch Back to the Future, but I don't want to watch Transformers. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Now, I mean, like I said, if I hadn't watched Transformers as a kid, no, I probably wouldn't watch it. But I love Back to the Future. I'll put that in right now. Yeah. And I think that's... I wonder if there's going to be a... Go ahead. No, no, no. I think, you know, it's that way of a lot of like 80s, 90s movies that would appeal. I think these companies really just need to keep diving more into the nostalgic side of things. Pokemon and stuff like that's great. Pokemon's big enough to work, but be careful with some of these new themes. You got to remember who's buying them. I do know these go into arcades. I totally get that. But, you know, these are usually going in homes of 50 and 60 year old men. So things like let Steve Ritchie do a new Terminator 2 like he did it back in the day. Give him all the modern tools that he can use at Jersey Jack. That theme still resonates to a lot of people. I mean, who doesn't freaking like Judgment Day Terminator 2? I feel like those are the smarter choices that these companies should be making at the moment. Terminator 2 is banging, man. You can't beat that. And he's already done it, so kind of bring him back and let him revisit it. Could you make anything Arnold that wouldn't sell? I mean, what is a crap movie you did? Yeah, I think a lot of Arnold films would sell, and I think Jersey Jack can definitely afford Arnold. I think Pinball Brothers just couldn't afford it. I think that was the problem. I mean, Arnold's been in multiple pinball machines, including Terminator 2, the old one. Yeah, Terminator 2, you can make Terminator 1, I'd buy it. You can make Total Recall, True Lies. Hell, you can make another Predator. Yeah, make a Predator with Arnold, and I would definitely be in for that. On Transformers, how concerned are you that the Optimus Prime moving mech got scrapped? So is it disappointing? Yes, it's disappointing that Optimus does not transform in the game. Am I losing my mind over it? No. I could potentially still buy this game in the future, but I need to play it first because the most important thing with any game to me is it fun to shoot. And then step number two is the code fun. And then number three would be like, do I like the theme and the artwork? I mean, toys is coming in at like number four for me because toys look beautiful. Can they make a bad shooting game fun? No. So I think a lot of the community needs to chill out on the toys. Are you buying this as just a piece to stare at and you enjoy looking at it or are you actually playing it? Because when I bought video games back in the day, I could give a shit less about the graphics or any of that because the first thing that is important is, is it fun to play? So I played the game. I think it's really fun, but maybe I'm biased. Every time we get a new game in, I'm like, oh my goodness, this is so much fun. And then the next one comes out, this is the greatest game ever. So I don't know, maybe, but I don't know. I think it's a fun game to shoot. But I tell you, the pro is if you like mechs and stuff, there's nothing there. There's nothing. I was wondering, I was like, oh, I think the Megatron still shoots the ball. It just doesn't pivot left and right and up and down. But it doesn't, as far as I can tell, unless I just haven't hit that mode yet. I don't know. I don't think it does anything. And there's flat plastics for like a, damn, I want to call the Grogu, but it's not Grogu. What's the dinosaur guy? Oh, I couldn't tell you. Gonkers or something. I don't know. Anyway, and the Soundwave is, you know, flat plastic. Right. Damn, I can't remember his name. I mean, I would like them all to be sculpted.
    22:48
    Grimlock. Okay. I would like them all to be. That's the dinosaur. But, you know, for 7K, you still can't beat it. You know, you can go buy the cheapest Jersey Jack for 10K.
    22:59
    No, it is a fun game. And what you get in just video assets, they really do a good job of theme integration. And like I said, it's a fun game to shoot. But yeah, maybe I'm not the best judge of that. I listened to your conversation with David and I don't. He didn't like the orbit or something. Something about the orbit, like throwing the balls down the drain or whatever. That may be adjustable. I don't know. Or it may have just been the copy. Transformers? Yeah. He said it's not an L one, but he thought it was cool. He just didn't like one of the orbits, I think, was like throwing the ball down the center. But like you, you've had to adjust those before, you know, like sometimes you have to move it a little bit. Yeah. Well, they did pitch in for the song, which I guess from the movie. That's cool. You got the touch. You got the power.
    23:59
    That's actually from Boogie Nights, but it's the same song. No, I do a Boogie Nights pinball machine and I'll buy it. I love that kind of shit. More of that, Stern. And shit like that really makes me happy. I can deal with one more flat plastic if you put songs like that in the game. Yeah, I think that song's in there. I mean, I guess they got the, you know, the actual one. You got the touch. There you go.
    24:23
    You got the power! I should have done the Boogie Nights, but how great would that have been? So what do you know about the designer, Elliot Eisman? So what do I know about Elliot Eisman? He has been a mechanical engineer for Stern Pinball for many years, and then apparently he wanted to design a pinball machine, so they let him do John Wick, which has mixed reviews. I always enjoyed how that game shot. The code made no sense, and Tim Sexton had left the company, so I think that did definitely hurt the title. Then the whole no guns thing I think also hurt the title, but it's making a comeback for sure. Well, I think that's one of the things that hurt it. And not that people have to see guns, but there's a lot of people that believed that they were making a political statement by not having guns. You know what I mean? At the time, I remember the political climate of the time. I think that's one of the things that hurt it. I think design hurt it because some people weren't feeling it. I like it. Code definitely hurt it. A theme. Everybody's saying, you know, it's not really the most nostalgic theme. And what the hell happened to the contracts? You remember they were doing contracts for like, oh, that was one of the big things on it. And they were popular, dude. They used to drive people into the arcade. They come in with these things. Where's John Wick? Or I got to play this. I got a contract for whatever.
    25:52
    So I don't know what happened to that. They did that for like a month and quit. I forget who's over Insider Connected, but there's like one main person that's over it, and I guess they're dropping the ball. They kind of made this stuff? No, no, I'm talking about there's one coder that's like over like making all the badges and all that. No, they're doing nine different things. Yeah, but I don't think the contracts are coming back. They might do it here and there, but they made it seem like, oh, this is going to happen all the time. And I think, you know, after they did it a few times, like, oh, this is kind of a pain in the ass. This is work. Yeah, that's exactly right. So I think that is dead, unfortunately. Yeah, I imagine you're right. I tell you the most memorable moment for me from that game is the only thing I really remember about the game playing is the lights out mode. Whoever thought of that? That was that was pretty damn smart. I think it might be the 2X play field mode or something. But anyway, you hit it and all the all the GI, the general illumination lights go out. I don't know, it's just kind of a fun thing to do. It's the only memorable code moment that I can think of in that game. I just always enjoyed how it shot. I haven't played the premium much, but when I have, I'm like, why is this crate? The crate should have never been in the game. That's the only thing I don't like about the premium.
    27:13
    I do like the drop target. Yeah, it's just like, it's very awkward. And this is coming from a mech guy from Stern. And I'm like, that's what you came up with? Like, come on, man. Like, use that money that you had set aside for that Mac on something else in the game besides a crate that falls over because that just didn't make sense. The car was cool. I was fine with the car swinging out. It was neat, but it just wasn't, from my perspective, they had the car that came out, they had the crate that opened and closed. They had the blood marker that opened, but it really added nothing to the game. There's nothing you interacted with or anything. I think that was about what you got for the premium. It wasn't really, for me, on that particular title, where X-Men, for example, I saw you missed the little finger, the hand that breaks the ramp. I think the Sentinel head, did the Sentinel head go up and down with the Pro?
    28:08
    I can't remember. I don't think so, no. I think it's static. I think that game, people, I don't know, but that game came out like a rocket. When they announced it, everybody was clamoring to get one. I don't know whether it was the layout, the code, or the quality control because they had the launching issue. Something just killed it and then it never really recovered. Do you think Transformers is going to be redemption for Elliot Eisman? I think it all depends on the premium because if you're talking mech guy, I've already said there's not really any mechs in the Pro. I think the premium is cool with the Canon and stuff. I think, yeah, I think the mechs were okay. And, you know, I'm not saying it was his fault that Optimus Prime got pulled out. If it's true that they were just, you know, trying to get this thing out as quickly as possible, and that's the only reason why, like, an awesome mech's not in there. I can't really blame Elliot for that, if that is the case. I don't know what the real story is behind all of that. I don't know, but I did see somebody, Kaneda or somebody posted on, had taken the Transformer out and showed where it's just, they just made some metal to hold it in one position. You can tell it looks like it's still hinged and everything to move. It does kind of look like, once somebody said it's the chicken dance Optimus, it's hard not to see that at that point. Yeah. Well, I mean, even in the Stern meetup, did you get on that like the Zoom meeting or whenever they let us come on? But we were slammed at the moment. I didn't get to go. My wife did. Oh, OK. And so I mean, Seth said and he didn't say it was any secret or anything. But during that meeting, he said he's like, yeah, we had to pull Optimus out. He did, you know, transform, but he didn't get into details. He's just like we had some issues. We had to pull it up. I think it was intended to transform in the pro, and the pro needs something. The pro needs – the pro's a blast. It's fun to play from what I've seen. It's nice looking and all this stuff, but it needs one thing to say.
    30:17
    I don't know. That kind of happens. One moment in the game that kind of happens, and I think that Transforming Optimus would have been it.
    30:26
    Yeah, I think it kind of kills it. I was kind of on the fence, like almost about to order that game. And I kept saying, you know, I was like, it's called Transformers. Like something needs to transform. And, you know, people's argument is, you know, the old one didn't have anything that transforms. I'm like, yeah, but this is the new one.
    30:45
    And I kind of expect something to transform. Yeah. Transformer, be able to hit the guy in the nuts like the old one. You know, you got to have something there. That creates a moment. If you can't bash somebody in the nuts, then he should transform. I figure it should be one or the other. It's whatever, though. I need to play it. For all I know Elizabeth Gieske does an amazing job on the code and then I do want one because it fun to play Because at the end of the day really I just want something that fun to play because all the mechs and all the things that move after like 10 games on it I don even notice anymore I think you're going to end up with a with a Transformers because I really do think that game's a lot of fun to play. Yeah. And I haven't heard anything different. I've known nobody said anything except positive about it. And so I'm real excited to see what the premium. So if you take that fun to play and you add in all the, you know, the niceness of all these mechs and everything that's in the premium. Right. So the Soundwave, it's an actual sculpt and the chest opens up and it shoots the ball out. And the Megatron, the cannon moves around and actually shoots the ball out at a ramp. As far as I can tell, I don't know how they've solved the problem. I thought that would eventually bend something. But after shooting it into a metal ramp or shooting it into the playfield, I just thought something's going to have to eventually take some damage. But I assume they solved that problem. Yeah, if I did get one, it would definitely be the premium because if a pro is too stripped, I'm automatically just going to go to the premium. But I'm definitely not against pros. I don't think this one's stripped. When I look at games like Jaws, to me, the pro looks stripped. When I look at it, the game just looks bare. Venom, Led Zeppelin, those are three games that when you look at them, without hitting the start button, without knowing anything about pinball, you look at it and you go, man, there's something else should be here. And I don't get that impression from Transformers. They've spaced everything out enough. It covers enough of the play field and there's enough funky little shots. I mean, they have kind of the pop bumpers are kind of like Fall of the Empire, but there's a slingshot on one side where the pop bumper was on or the Darth Vader pop bumper is on Fall of the Empire. So I mean, it's a neat they've got some neat ideas in there. Yeah, I want to play Fall of the Empire again. I hear Ray Day's killing the code on that, and I've only played it, I think, one time at the Pinball Palace, maybe one or two games ever on it. So I have zero time on that game. I know it got a lot of hate coming out of the gate as well. Out of the gate and currently, I mean, the general reaction to the game honestly is meh, you know, I mean, it's okay, you know, I like it. I think it's fun. Yeah. But when compared to Steve Ritchie's 2017 Star Wars, people seem to play that one a lot more. And it's older. I mean, it's older and it looks, same thing we were talking about, it looks kind of bare a little bit. Yeah. If you don't have the premium, but still people choose that one over the Fall of the Empire. Right. Yeah, I'll get some time on it eventually. I keep thinking about, I'm like, if I find a cheap one, should I get a pro just to try it? But I don't know. I keep holding out because Keith Elwin's coming soon and that's the designer. I typically buy his game every year. Yeah, I've got, and maybe we can get into this. So I've heard, you know, I've come to you a few times with things that I've heard, rumors or whatever, and never once have you ever been like, I didn't know that. You've always responded with more info than I got. So I decided to do an expose on, I wanted to see what people thought about what you know about pinball. So if you're cool with it, I've got a segment of what I want to try is that I'm going to play this interview that I did where I asked people about you and what you know about pinball. And then what I'd like to do if you're up for it is I've got sound bites of pretty much every rumored game that's coming out. So I'm going to play you a small sound bite, see if you can identify the game and tell me what you know about it. You up for that? Yeah, I probably won't get all of these right, but sure. If it sucks, just cut it out. You know what I mean? All right. So we'll see. Here's my so here's my interview on.
    35:28
    This is Eric. We're out here at the shops at Richmond Hill to find out what exactly people know about Sterling Martin and his extensive pinball knowledge. If a pinball designer scratches his nuts, Sterling Martin will be there. Sterling who? Who did? What do you think about Sterling Martin? I would let Sterling Martin spit in my mouth. After all, Sterling is a modern-day pinball messiah with the voice of an angel. Dirty mama? What are you talking about dirty mama? I know shit about no damn dirty mama. No, I didn't say dirty mama. I said Sterling Martin. If Jesus and Thanos had a baby, it would be Sterling. Sterling Martin could fart on my dinner. Have some inside information you want to share with Sterling? Don't bother. He already knows.
    36:12
    Okay, that's my intro into this. Oh, shit. I'm going to let you know you're famous now. All right, so I'm going to play you a sound clip, just a short one, and I want to see if you can identify the game and then tell me what you know about it. Oh, fuck. All right, go ahead.
    36:32
    That's it? That's all I get? All right, give me a little more. A little bit. I mean, come on. I was like, all I heard was gold. All right, have you heard that rumor? Yeah, I've heard the Goldfinger rumor. All right, so what do you know? From what I have heard, it would just be kind of how they've done like the Godzilla 50th and they've done the Elvira Blood Kiss, even though that was an L.E., but basically a new edition of the current James Bond game they already have. If you've seen George Gomez in some of these interviews, there's actually a Goldfinger art package hanging up in his office in the background. So I imagine that's what would be used. And I think this rumor came from Kale, if I remember right. So that's pretty much all the knowledge I have on Goldfinger. Okay. All right. Next game. Next.
    37:29
    Hey, you guys. You got it. It took me a second, though. Chuck! Chuck! Chuck! So, the Goonies. What do you know? I know that it's probably the Goonies, and that's it. Okay.
    37:51
    Damn. Just because I'm going off of everybody else. No, like, that one's been held, yeah, I haven't heard, like, any rumors or anything that's in the game other than, yeah, it's a wide body, I believe, again. But I think I think Bugs said that on a stream. So that's that's no secret or anything. Do you think they'll ever do the dual theme again? No, they've they've said they'll never do it again. But who knows what spooky? They change their mind all the time.
    38:19
    All right, we're going to move on to the next one. Now, this one's going to be impossible to get. So I'll go and tell you, impossible to get. I'm just going to tell you, that's Cuphead. Oh, I was like, I thought it was the Jim Carrey, the mask.
    38:39
    Yeah, I mean, as good a guess as anything I would have had. Cuphead. What do you know? So, yeah, I don't know a whole lot about Cuphead, but what I have heard is American is actually going to build Cuphead and put it out. This is just rumors that I've heard, so I don't know if that's true or not. I know there was a few individuals that went and played it when the company was still owned by Amtron, and they all said it was, you know, America's best shooting game to date, so hopefully it does come out. I don't know about the theme. It doesn't really speak to me. I've heard it's very yellow, but that's about all I know about Cuphead. Yeah, well, I have to say, though, so I have this multi-cade system. It's 20 terabytes of games and everything. And so when they announced originally back in the day before American Pinball went under and then came out like a phoenix, I heard Cuphead was a thing. So I typed in Cuphead. It's a neat game. It's some kind of like nostalgia looking. I don't know. It's a neat thing looking. It looks kind of like some kind of old colorized Disney cartoon. It looks fun. The game looks fun. But that doesn't translate necessarily to sales and brand recognition. I heard they're working their ass off on Circus Voltaire, though, so I do want to see that one.
    40:04
    Are you? Well, hang on. You know what? That's a good intro into this one right here. See where the hell is it?
    40:16
    All right, so we'll go ahead and skip to that one. That was also one of the rumors. That is the music from Circus Voltaire. Oh, okay. So yeah, I'm pretty excited about Circus Voltaire. I've always really liked this game, but I've never been able to find one for the right price and decent condition. So if they do execute this well, I could potentially be a buyer, but this is their first time building a new game under the new ownership. And basically all new employees. So I do want it to get into hands and hear kind of some reviews from people before I would buy it. But I am I'm pretty excited for this title, though. So how bad do you think their lack of a reputation is going to hurt this game?
    41:04
    Um, I don't think it really matters right now. I think just the first game they got to prove their self. And if they prove their self, I think the community will probably be behind American again. We'll see, though. No doubt. The first game will sell the second or kill the second if they come out. And their biggest thing right now, in my opinion, should be quality control. They have to come out and these games have to get the reputation immediately of being tanks. They have to get that CGC reputation. Yeah, that's my only worry is like they have issues or delays. Like don't be saying, hey, it's going to come out this quarter and then it be delayed like six months because they will go ape shit the whole community. I mean, I get it. You know, shit happens, but it's better just not to even say a date if you can help it. Yeah, you're probably right. I really don't know why they came out. I guess maybe just to get people excited about the brand, but I really don't know why. They said it's almost like CGC. Every time CGC puts out a deadline for a self-imposed deadline, they blow past it and piss people off. Like, just don't say it. They're going to do the same thing when Halo comes. When Halo comes, they'll say it, and a year later, we'll see it. And it's like, well, why didn't you just wait nine months to say it's coming out? Yeah, well, all right, so here we go on to the next game. Yeah, go ahead.
    42:28
    I didn't know how to pick up for Halo. It's obviously not Beyonce, but that's Halo. Oh, that's Halo? Holy shit. That's in this song.
    42:38
    Halo, Halo. Oh, no. No, that's fine. You never played Halo, apparently. I haven't. I couldn't find, look, I tried to let Google. It's supposed to be memorable moments or something. I don't know if there was theme music or anything.
    42:53
    That's the song. Bro, I'm taking that. I'm cutting that out. When you post this episode, I'm taking that sound clip and we're using that for something. Halo I used to love is Xbox. So I had the original Xbox. Well, actually, my buddy got the original Xbox first, and the only game he had was Halo. And me and him stayed up that night and played, like, cooperative play and beat the whole game. So I've got some memories of Halo, and I really enjoyed it when I was younger. My problem is I don't really care about it being a pinball thing. That was actually going to be my question. And I was like, how does that relate to pinball sales? Yeah.
    43:31
    Because I was more of a Black Ops guy. You know, I played that when I was younger. Well, look at Halo like, you know, I enjoyed playing it. I don't want a Halo T-shirt. I don't want a Halo hat. I don't want a Halo pinball machine. I just enjoy playing Halo every once in a while on Xbox.
    43:49
    All right. You ready for another one? Yeah, go ahead. You know your kind ain't welcome here. Well, maybe not. But I'm going to make myself well. Yes, I know what it is. Oh, go for it. Go for it. It's Fallout. I don't know if you'd get that one. Yeah, so I forced myself to watch all of it because the game's coming out because I love Keith Elwin. And I'm like, I've got to watch this damn series so I know what I can relate to the game. It's all right. I'm not a big fan of the show. But obviously, you know, it's Fallout. And so so what do you know about it? When's it coming out? You obviously said it's Keefe Elwin. I think it's next. Well, I think you either see I think you see Goldfinger next. And then I think after Goldfinger, we see Fallout. That would be my best guess.
    44:41
    All right. All right. But no other inside info on that one. No. In the great hall of the Justice League, there are assembled the world's four greatest heroes. Oh, man. I'm not even excited for that one. Who's supposed to be making that? What do you know about it? Yeah, I don't know where I originally heard this rumor, but apparently Jersey Jack is going to be making Justice League. I don't know if that's the next title or if it's further down the line, but apparently it's coming. No, all the DC movies flop, so I don't know. Maybe it works for them. I'm still waiting for like JJP to do that one game that like grabs me theme wise. It's like do Batman 89. I love Batman 89 with Jack Nicholson and Michael Keaton. Yes. Heck yeah, man. I would love for somebody to make a new one of those. The Data East one was fine, but man, somebody needs to do that movie justice. Oh, yeah. I would do both of the Tim Burton films as one. That'd probably be more expensive. You'd have to get Danny DeVito as well. You don't want the nippled up, nippled up Batman Forever.
    45:57
    What was the guy? George Clooney and the other guy played in Top Gun. I can't remember, but yeah, I know who you're talking about. Yeah, okay. Val Kilmer. Val Kilmer. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. The nipple, the nipple ones. No, I hated those ones. I just like the Tim Burton ones. So I'm not a huge Batman fan, but if I had to choose a Batman era that I liked, it was the Keaton movies for sure.
    46:24
    And Batman 66 is a cool theme. I probably would never go back and watch the episodes, though. I'll check those out, man. You can put me down on those.
    46:34
    But I'll tell you what, man, there's a lot. Tim Burton, I think, is an untapped resource for pinball. Hell yeah. I think A Nightmare Before Christmas would do very well. I do Maybe I wrong with that I just pictured like a Jersey Jack making that And I just think I be really cool Yeah All right Let you want to jump back and try another one Yeah yeah Sorry to break away with all that
    46:59
    I mean, come on. I don't have to play any more of that. You know what that is. I mean, I'm going to say Ready Player One. It's in a lot of movies. What in the... No, it's Van Halen, man. Oh, yeah, yeah.
    47:12
    I thought we were going for movies, but okay. No, no, it's a rumor. Am I about to tell you something? No, I've heard about it. I've heard about it. I don't think it's happening. I don't think everything I've heard it was a rumor and then I heard like it was a licensing nightmare and probably just not going to happen. But who knows? I could be wrong. And, you know, half these people I'm talking to are hearing it from, you know, 20 different people. So who knows what the true story is on that one? Well, I heard J.J.P. got it. Maybe so. I mean, I think that's a cool. Well, I tell you what, man, if you want to talk about a licensing nightmare, they got Guns N' Roses and those people hate each other. And Slash from Guns N' Roses did the music in Sonic. Did you know that? I did not, but I know he's kind of friends with those guys. I think he's done music now two or three times for him for different games, if I'm remembering correctly. We did Godfather, I know, and that was really cool. We did a rendition of the Godfather theme on the guitar. That was really cool. That's a really neat little moment. So, yeah, that's at least three, Guns N' Roses, Godfather, and Sonic. That's cool. I can't imagine, you know, they got a guitar playing in Avatar. They're not going to run them in Elton John's.
    48:28
    Elton John. Avatar theme, whatever the hell that is, and it's Slash playing guitar. No, that's cool. I mean, hopefully they do have that theme. I think music themes can be harder to appeal to a larger audience, though. Just, you know, looking at all of them that have ever came out, I don't know of any of them that sold really, really well.
    48:53
    Well, I know one you're excited about. I already know this. Oh, God. That was complete sarcasm. I know you dislike music that's popular. No, I know. So, dude, I liked ACDC. I've just kind of burned out on, like, the radio music, you know, that I heard. I've heard ACDC so many times. It is good music. Hell, I've seen them in concert, but I don't know.
    49:22
    You said you're seeing them in concert? I've seen them in concert, yeah. Oh, you've seen them in concert. Okay, I got you. All right. But no, I like ACDC for many years. I heard it's happening. I heard it's not happening. I heard it's KISS. I heard it's ACDC.
    49:38
    And then I'm pretty sure like George Gomez came out and said like, quit guessing because we haven't made the decision yet. Oh, wow. See, I heard it was ACDC and then I heard KISS and then I heard ACDC, but a whole new design. Like it's not based on the old one. And then I heard a remaster. The most recent one I've heard is it's a remaster of the original design. So I haven't, you know, who knows? ACDC is Steve Ritchie.
    50:07
    Yeah, I could see them not using that design. I feel like they want the designer there to tweak it. And I don't see, a lot of those designers are still friends with Steve. They don't, you know, dislike him because he left. And I don't see any designer like saying, yeah, I'll go and mess with Steve's design.
    50:27
    I don't know. I listened to that Loser Kids podcast with Steve Ritchie on it. And he seemed Steve Ritchie seems like he could be a dick. Oh, yeah. He just seemed aggressive. Oh, he is extremely aggressive. But, you know, people still like him. They don't dislike him. He's just that kind of person like what? What? What the fuck? You know, that's that's kind of Steve Ritchie. Yeah, I think there's going to be a segment of the population that just likes Black Knight sort of rage. Because I know there's like people that would go to Southern Fried Gaming and he was there I think last year and people were getting him to talk shit to him. Oh, really? Like the Topper did. Yeah, the Topper does some funny stuff, man. He talks all kinds of crap to you, but he does that in real life. I've met Steve quite a few times and he's signed a bunch of stuff for me over the years and he's always been super cool around me. And so, yeah, I've had nothing but good stories every time I've met them. All right. So real quick, I'm a hot lap you on these things. Tell me real quick what you know about it and what you can identify. Oh, come on. I know you got that one. Wait, do it again.
    51:34
    Oh, he man. Yeah, he man. All right. So what do you know about it? Is it is it a game? Is it going to happen? Um, I've heard very little about that game. I mean, I heard a few years ago that American Pinball had it or was trying to get it and it didn't work out. And then I've heard the recent rumors of maybe somebody has it. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe barrels. I'm not sure. All right. Next.
    52:05
    Oh, shit. What is that? I know what it is. Oh, fuck. Oh, Attack from Mars. Ah, look at you go. What do you know? Um, I know that it's next.
    52:17
    Okay. Yeah, I think Attack from Mars is coming pretty damn soon. Probably the fourth quarter, if I had to guess, and then Halo next year. That would be my best guess on both of them. Sucks for me because I'm one of the suckers who paid a premium-ass price for an Attack from Mars LE. Oh, I'm buying it. It always is, man. I am buying this one. Shit, how am I buying it? I'm buying this one. I love that game. That is a childhood game that I remember playing. It is a great game. But, yeah, I mean, it's a chance you take. But every time I like, like I paid over. We got to talk about Tales of the Arabian Nights because, I mean, I paid all my life and I paid. I say I, but we're a team. But Tales of the Arabian Nights, we got one. But I actually don't mind that. Dude, that game is going to be trash. Yeah, I'm happy with the Williams. That company just does not. That is a company that's got to prove their self. Funhaus, people did not receive that game well. Everyone was saying it felt cheap and the quality was terrible. I meet up with these pinball people every month and there's a collector in there and he's like, that's the one company I will not buy anything else from after Funhaus. So I wouldn't worry about your Tales from the Arabian Nights. I think you still got the one everybody's going to want. That one is pretty, though. I got to say, I like now there are people that are the classic people that have been out. I haven't been in pinball super long, so I don't have that nostalgia for 90 game 90s games. I didn't play him in the 90s. My 90s games exposure is after I played the brand new games. Yeah. But I like the Brian Allen artwork so much that I put the Translight and the Side Art Blades in my Tales of the Arabian Nights. It looks beautiful, much more colorful and really drew people to playing it more, to be honest with you. Well, I think that company probably is not doing the best. You could probably call them up and buy some decals.
    54:16
    Yeah. I like the purple and the yellow in the, what do you call it, the 30th Anniversary Edition. And that's $12,000 and limited to $399,000 supposedly. I think that's what it is. One problem they have is when you're talking about, A, obviously quality control is a big problem for them. Shipping, import fees is going to be a big problem for them. Another problem is just the feeling that it's cheap. And I say that as someone who's just recently purchased Pinball Brothers Queen. Now, from what I understand, those games are made on the same assembly line.
    54:57
    I really think they're making a mistake by putting that half-thickness glass in there. When you pull it out, I feel like every time I pull the glass out, I'm going to break this damn thing. Are they saving that much money? Yeah, that's what I don't get about this company and pinball. I look at both of them as one. Pardretti and Pinball Brothers, they make them in the same factory. They're built with the same parts. I think they're just designed by different design teams. But I feel like these games are being built by like non-pinball people, especially the code. The code they have made for some of these remakes is just horrendous. Well, it seems like they've accepted that and gone the easier route, which is just to focus their code efforts on fixing bugs and kind of some little enhancements. They're calling it 1.5 code. And so you have the original code with just some bug repairs and they're not trying to make new modes there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was more referring to their previous games and their kits and stuff. But hopefully they've, you know, figured it all out and these games are going to be really high quality. But as far as everyone I've talked to, I don't know anybody ordering this game and it's been kind of crickets as far as like the interest on it. Queen, if it breaks, I don't even know what to do about it. And you don't have to import anything, you know. I mean, I just think that I think a lot of that is just dealing with Europe on everything. I like hearing also when people are like, I use Bally William parts and I use these parts. Well, actually, I think they do claim they use those parts. I think it's a requirement from the licensure. So the people that own the Planetary Pinball owns a license to Tales of the Arabian Nights. And my understanding is anybody licenses one of those original games from them, You have to use their parts. So my understanding is you have to use their parts. But yeah, that's a good thing. I will say when I played Funhouse, it sure as hell didn't feel like the armor was made to the same standard as Williams. It felt like it was thin and like everything kind of moved around and shit like nothing was like really tight.
    57:06
    I've only played one of those Pedretti or Pinball, who is Pedretti, right? I did Funhouse. Yes. Yeah, they're the people doing the remakes. So I only played one of those. And I have to say, that game was pretty. But Funhouse is never a game that appealed to me. I just don't know. I played it, and it's just not really for me. I just find myself looking around at other games when I play it for most people. I mean, what I kept hearing people saying over and over was, why in the hell would you choose Funhouse as your first remake? There are so many good ones out there. Why are you building this one? Like Tales from the Arabian Nights, if they would have done that first, that game would have sold so well. And even if it didn't hold up well, it wouldn't matter because they would have already sold so many damn games. But now they've got this reputation where, you know, their games are low quality and you come out with a good title and no one's buying it. Yeah, I agree with you completely. I think if they had come out of the gate with Tales of the Arabian Nights and people would have bought it up before they realized it was low quality, then that would have been the way to go. And that would have helped the sales on that would have helped the next one, maybe. Or it would have just done like a lot of games and fall through the floor on the secondhand market. I would have bought it. I'm excited to see what they do with animations, and I'd like to see what little bit of code improvements. But I'm obviously not a good enough player to really notice many of the code improvements they've done. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I just played like the Whirlwind that they did, I believe. Yeah, and like all the 2.0 codes and stuff they built, it just didn't make any damn sense. Like, this doesn't even relate to the game. Like, are y'all like doing drugs coming up with this shit? So I've never played, seen, or honestly was even aware of the 2.0 kit for, what do you call it, Whirlwind? Yeah. But man, I have heard about the hate on that. People hate that shit. Well, they made a whole new story on the whole game, too, that just didn't make any sense. It's like, the game already has a theme. You can't just come up with a new theme. You said that trim feels cheap on Funhaus. What I found interesting is everybody is talking about the powder coat on the 30th anniversary edition Tales of the Arabian Nights. But I read the press release that Pedretta gave me.
    59:29
    I read what they released and it says painted. I don't know if that's a language barrier. It says 100%. It says painted trim. It's got to be powder coated. I would hope. Yeah, that might be a language barrier. You would think you would have somebody who's kind of fluent in English translating for you if that's not the case. But 100% on there. Everybody, I've listened to all these podcasts about the game, including like Flippin' Out, Who's Selling It. Yeah. And they call it Powder Coat. And maybe it is Powder Coat. But I'm here to tell you, I read the press release and it says Painted Trim. Yeah, they should definitely fix that if it's not Painted Trim because, yeah, that would concern me. I would like to think it's Powder Coating. One thing that scares me about, I said before we recently got a Pedretti, no, Pinball Brothers Queen. I got it from my mom, Liz, is like obsessed with Queen, so I pretty much got it for her. But we're going to throw it in the arcade until people get sick of it and pull it out and probably bring it to her house, you know, let her play it around.
    60:33
    But anyway, I'm so scared of something going wrong with this thing because, A, they've moved on. Do they even really support the game? I don't know. I don't know Pinball Brothers.
    60:44
    Well, you know it was different people in charge. The brother, the whole Pinball, the brothers. Isn't it like a brother now? They don't even work there. Pinball Brother is single now? Yeah, I think it's under totally different ownership for the most part since that game. So, yeah, it's a good question. Do they still support that? And their reputation is not wonderful to begin with. All right, Eric, is there anything else you wanted to touch on or you want to go ahead and wrap it up here? No, man, I know you wanted to kind of keep this one brief, so I think we're an hour and 20 in or so. So we'll go ahead and wrap it up. Maybe we'll pick it up again next week. We've got quite a bit more to cover. Yeah, we've still got tons of topics to talk about and stuff. We'll do another episode next week and do it all over again, man. Right on, my brother. We'll catch you next time. All right, later, brother.
    61:36
    Thank you. Outro Music