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Episode 276 - The Long Quiet

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 13m·analyzed·Jul 19, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.022

TL;DR

Eclectic Gamers podcast covers Multimorphic game rumors and pinball industry direct-sales strategy debate.

Summary

In this Eclectic Gamers Podcast episode, hosts Tony and Dennis discuss personal updates (Tony's knee injury, AC/AC issues), then pivot to pinball news including Multimorphic's rumored upcoming game(s) potentially featuring Dungeon Crawler Carl and possibly a dual-theme layout. They analyze listener emails about Spooky Pinball production strategy versus Barrels of Fun and Jersey Jack's direct-sales models, and debate the tension between direct sales and distributor networks. The episode concludes with Dennis expressing strong opinions about third-party "Bride of Pinbot 25th Anniversary Super LE" artwork kits.

Key Claims

  • Multimorphic is expected to launch a new game soon, rumored to be Dungeon Crawler Carl based on artist comments and rapid development timeline

    medium confidence · Dennis discussing rumor mill; based on Reddit and Nap Arcade chatter

  • Multimorphic may be developing two games with one layout (similar to Texas Chainsaw/Looney Tunes model)

    low confidence · Dennis citing Reddit posts and Nap Arcade pieces; second theme unknown

  • Spooky Pinball has dialed back production numbers from their peak (Scooby-Doo at ~2000 units down to Beetlejuice at ~1000 units)

    high confidence · Tony providing production figures

  • Spooky Pinball prioritizes completing games within one year due to licensing duration constraints

    high confidence · Dennis explaining Spooky's business model and licensing relationships

  • Jonathan Frakes and Star Trek: The Next Generation cast were given a copy of the game rather than paid for voice work

    medium confidence · Richard A. email citing Dropping Names and Other Things podcast at 24:41

  • Evil Dead pinball didn't sell out for months, with sales surge occurring post-FOMO at Texas show

    high confidence · Dennis referencing conversation with Bug and team at Texas two years ago

  • Beetlejuice pinball was an obvious seller that Spooky should have produced more units for

    high confidence · Dennis's opinion based on outside observation of demand signals

  • Rumored future Spooky titles include Gremlins and Goonies

    low confidence · Dennis discussing 'rumors of the next themes that they possibly control'

  • Distributors provide critical after-sales support and repair coordination that manufacturers are unprepared to handle directly

    high confidence · Dennis explaining role of distributors and collector feedback

Notable Quotes

  • “Spooky pinball people are tenacious. My family doesn't know who's doing the game. Nobody does. Yes. Please stop asking.”

    Matt Deniman (via social media, referenced by Dennis) @ N/A — Reflects frustration over intense community speculation about Multimorphic's unannounced game(s); illustrates the intensity of pinball community demand for IP reveals

  • “Evil Dead, they didn't sell out of Evil Dead for months. They were so – Bug and his team were really excited when we talked to them at Texas two years ago because they had just sold Evil Dead just before the show opened.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Shows how FOMO and post-event buzz can dramatically shift demand for released games

  • “Beetlejuice was an obvious... They should have known they could have had a higher – they left money on the table with Beetlejuice. It should have been – in my view, it was so obvious.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Suggests that production projections can be improved through early playtesting feedback and theme strength assessment

  • “What arrogance to go ahead and decide that this, of all things, was worthy of being called a super anything. Super LE. That you, not Williams, mind you, not WMS, you third-party upstart think that you get to deem something that you are worthy to bestow.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Strong criticism of third-party artwork kits claiming 'Super LE' status for Bride of Pinbot; reflects tension over IP ownership and nomenclature authority

  • “If something breaks, I call for help. My distro will give me my parts, but I got to fix it.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Describes the traditional DIY repair expectation for pinball machine owners in the hobbyist market

  • “If you own a pinball machine, you need to actually own a soldering iron. You need to have a certain level of mechanical competence.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Articulates the historical assumption about pinball ownership skill requirements; contrasts with modern consumer expectations

  • “There's a thread on Pinside who's been going for years, someone who's building from scratch their own game, and they do not have the skill set... it's been like seven years. It's so painful to read.”

Entities

MultimorphiccompanyDungeon Crawler CarlgameSpooky PinballcompanyBarrels of FuncompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyFlip N Out PinballcompanyZach MinneypersonGreg Bone

Signals

  • ?

    machine_intel: Multimorphic preparing imminent game launch, rumored to be Dungeon Crawler Carl with possible dual-theme variant

    medium · Dennis: 'Everything indicates that Multimorphic is expecting to launch their new game... The rumor mill, Tony, is in full froth at this point with additional comments, artists, stuff being said that they have to have Dungeon Crawler Carl.' Also mentions Reddit/Nap Arcade chatter about potential two-games-one-layout model.

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Intense community speculation and pressure on Multimorphic/Dungeon Crawler Carl IP holder regarding unannounced game details

    high · Matt Deniman social media post: 'Oh, you pinball people are tenacious. My family doesn't know who's doing the game. Nobody does. Yes. Please stop asking.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Spooky Pinball has reduced production runs from historical peaks (Scooby-Doo ~2000 to Beetlejuice ~1000) and maintains annual reveal/production cycle

    high · Tony: 'Beetlejuice was around a thousand units. I think the highest they ever got was Scooby-Doo, which was just under two thousand.' Dennis: 'Spooky... always been antsy about having production times go out too long like they really want to be done with games within a year.'

  • $

    market_signal: Spooky Pinball potentially underestimated demand for Beetlejuice and may have left significant revenue on table

    high · Dennis: 'Beetlejuice was an obvious... They should have known they could have had a higher – they left money on the table with Beetlejuice... it was so obvious.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Growing tension between manufacturers increasing direct sales and distributor profitability; concern that manufacturers may eventually attempt to capture LE sales exclusively

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.049

0:00
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, July 18th, 19th, July 19th. I'm so bad about putting the date there. That's why you have a watch on. July 19th, it's episode 276. I'm Tony. I'm Dennis. Tony, what's going on? I saw the notes and I've seen you moving around here, but I knew I was just going to wait for the recording to start. People want to know because they could feel it in your voice. I borked my knee last week. It looks very borked. Actually, more than last week. It was the week before last, actually. And, you know, it's not one of those cool things like I was shaving a baby or I lifted a burning car off of a puppy. Were you at the skate park working on a 720? I was doing, yeah, I was doing cool ollies and this and that. Yeah, no, I was walking and I stopped to pivot and speak to somebody behind me and my knee went pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And my knee has been just massive pain ever since.
1:25
So, yay, getting older. Are you, did you go in? Are you taking anything for it? No. You put a brace on it? I do have a brace. Okay. I'm not wearing it today, but. I was going to say, I don't see a brace. No, I'm not wearing it today. Yeah, I don't wear braces on Sundays. I've been, yeah, no, it's. My orthodontist hated that rule, but I told him it's science. Science is what it is. So, no, I've been wearing a brace. I've been taking stuff.
1:55
It's one of those things I've got. I'm giving it a week or so, and then I've got a physical therapy thing to go look at or to go get it looked at just to see because I've got access to a no referral physical therapist thing that I can go at least to get examinations of. So I've just been taking it easy, mainly just normal over-the-counter stuff and wearing my brace a lot. So it's getting better. It's one of those things where it's actually – once I get moving and stretch it out, it gets a lot better. But it doesn't like sitting around for a while, which with my job is still what I – like half of my job is sitting at my desk doing paperwork. And we're sitting around here. I've not done this all along this morning. This pain is for the listeners, and they should support us at patreon.com slash thecollecting underscore gamers. That sounds great. Okay. That sounds good. Help Tony's brace. Yeah, that I already have. Yeah. And actively use. Maybe we could get a new attachment for it, like a cup holder. Right. My brace needs a cup holder. If you fund it. Maybe one of those little pink cup holders. But then, because that wasn't bad enough. It wasn't. No.
  • Barrels of Fun is currently increasing direct sales in a way that may negatively impact distributor relationships

    medium confidence · Dennis's assessment of Barrels' current strategy relative to distributor networks

  • Dennis @ N/A — Cautionary example of undertaking custom builds without proper mechanical competence; illustrates the gap between ambition and ability in DIY pinball

  • “I think some of them want to get to the point where they feel like... gosh, wouldn't it be great if the distributors had to sell all of the unlimited stuff and we sold all the LEs?”

    Dennis @ N/A — Speculates on hypothetical manufacturer strategy to maximize direct-sales revenue through LE exclusivity

  • “Without the LEs, a lot of the leverage for the distributors might actually evaporate because that's where most of the money is made.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Identifies the critical role of LE sales in distributor profitability and leverage

  • “Pinball still exists... in this very odd space. I call it the space of jank where it's not really consumer friendly the way it should be for what they're targeting.”

    Dennis @ N/A — Characterizes the pinball market's informal, DIY-oriented service structure as a quirk of a small, niche hobby

  • person
    Matt Denimanperson
    Bugperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Williamscompany
    Jonathan Frakesperson
    Brent Spinerperson
    Phil Pradyperson
    Richard A.person
    Brian J.person
    Dennisperson
    Tonyperson
    Bride of Pinbotgame

    medium · Dennis discussing hypothetical scenario where manufacturers sell unlimited through distributors and LEs directly: 'I think some of them want to get to the point where they... wouldn't it be great if the distributors had to sell all of the unlimited stuff and we sold all the LEs?' Also notes Barrels 'flirting with that in a negative way right now.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Pinball manufacturers unprepared to provide direct after-sales support; distributor network essential for customer service but increasingly strained by direct-sales encroachment

    high · Dennis: 'These companies are not prepared to do the service calls... You could go entirely direct if the company is willing to assume full responsibility for after-sales support. None of them seem to want to pull the trigger on it.' Also notes Zach Minney/Flip N Out handles service calls, parts coordination, and occasional paid repairs.

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball hobby assumes certain mechanical/electrical competence (soldering, diagnostics) that not all modern owners possess; gap between expectations and reality

    high · Dennis: 'Historically there was always a certain assumption that if you own a pinball machine, you need to actually own a soldering iron... There is someone... [building] from scratch their own game, and they do not have the skill set... it's been like seven years. It's so painful to read.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Pinball manufacturers bound by licensing agreements with time-limited production windows, forcing completion within set timeframes or requiring renegotiation

    high · Dennis: 'There are deals related to the licenses and their durations that they need to be mindful of in terms of how long they're allowed to build a particular game... things start to get a little weird if the timelines go too long without having to renegotiate.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Third-party artwork kit creators using 'Super LE' and anniversary nomenclature without IP holder authority, raising questions of legitimacy and brand dilution

    high · Dennis: 'What arrogance to go ahead and decide that this, of all things, was worthy of being called a super anything... That you, not Williams, mind you, not WMS, you third-party upstart think that you get to deem something that you are worthy to bestow.'

  • $

    market_signal: Evil Dead saw minimal sales initially, then dramatic FOMO-driven surge post-Texas show when units became unavailable

    high · Dennis: 'Bug and his team were really excited when we talked to them at Texas two years ago because they had just sold The Last Evil Dead just before the show opened. And then the FOMO built after no one could get it.'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Williams-era pinball games compensated voice talent with product copies rather than cash; practice may have been gender/status biased

    medium · Richard A. email citing Jonathan Frakes podcast: 'they were not paid for doing the game. Instead, they were given a copy of the game.' Also references Sandra Bullock not receiving Demolition Man game while Wesley Snipes and Sylvester Stallone did.

  • 3:15
    Last Friday, our air conditioner went out. Oh, now that is bad. I don't like being hot. And it's been hot. They were able to, yeah. Luckily, last weekend, it was only in the upper 80s, low 90s.
    3:30
    They were able to get somebody out there on Tuesday to fix it because the problem was that the control board had blown something on the control board and like had a big burn spot on the control board. And while I have some capabilities to do stuff, I wasn't going to mess with the giant control board that I didn't even know how to source. So people came out and put a new control board in. Okay. So we went a couple of days with no air conditioning. I actually ended up going and getting one of those little, not a window unit because our windows don't open up in a good way for window units really, But one of those little portable units that has a little thing that slots into the window, but it's a lot smaller and lighter.
    4:18
    So we basically, I got one of those and we changed one of the bigger bedrooms into a cool zone. So when people got too hot, them and the dogs would go set in the cool zone. So what it amounted to is all of the dogs and my wife and one of my kids and the other kid rotating in and out of the cool zone. And I just stood like completely mired in fans in my own area over by my computer and everything. Like I had a fan under my computer desk. I had a fan on my computer desk. There were a couple other fans. So there was just a massive amount of moving air. And I was just like, this is fine. Yeah, this is fine. Well, you've always felt better with the heat than some people. Yeah. Like me. That's the thing is the big thing for me was the, oh, the dogs were like, oh, we've been outside running and playing level. I love panting, laying on the linoleum in the kitchen. It's like, yeah, we need to do something else. We're going to lose. Shave them. Shave them all. That's one of them we can't shave. Shave it. He's got no hair already. Shave it anyway. But it all worked out. It was a few days, and then everything got put back together. And I had picked up some new noise-canceling headphones. Right.
    5:34
    And I got to give them the big shot try while I'm surrounded by fans. And it worked great. I couldn't even hear the fans at all. They completely went away. I was like, wow, this is great. Nice. So I just sat there with headphones on sweating. What did you play while you were sweating? I played some more Grim Dawn until it got too hot and then I turned the computer off. Because I'm like, this is putting too much heat on. Yeah, it's putting out heat. It's putting out heat and I don't need this. So I literally laid on the couch and listened to audiobooks with five fans blowing at me. Now that sounds like what I would do. What have you been up to? I finally, last night, finished Outer Worlds 2. I did it. I pushed through. I had to edit my notes because I was like, I'm further along. It just now told me that I'm at the point of no return. Let me go ahead and cross that threshold of the event horizon and finish this game. So I've done that, and I started Final Fantasy XVI last night, and I played it a little bit more this morning, and so I'm not very far in it yet. I may be like, I don't know, first 45 minutes or an hour or so. I have to be careful there's so many cut scenes. It's probably been three hours because of all the cut scenes. But in terms of gameplay, they're still teaching me some of the movement and stuff. But it's very graphically interesting. I did not realize it was profane now. They're swearing. There's gore. Really? I mean, it's like, yeah. It's like grimdark. Man. Yeah. It's edgy.
    7:13
    It's like, what was the trailer for the new game where it's just like, mm, everybody being torn apart. No, it's not quite that. It's like Final Fantasy has moved to. Maybe a chapter or two. Final Fantasy XVIII, The Human Centipede. Yeah, it's not quite that gross. Human Centipede. I've never seen that, and I don't think I will. Don't. I do recommend, though.
    7:43
    Don't. I have. Don't. I do recommend watching the music video for Red Flags by Tom Carty. Okay. Because it's hilarious. It's entirely set from the point of view of a guy who's on a blind first date, and she's talking about her favorite movie, and it's Human Centipede.
    8:08
    And then it goes into the whole song. It's explaining it. Yes. And the whole song. Okay. It will summarize. Yes. Okay. But it is hilarious. Red flags. Okay.
    8:19
    Well, there are flags in the air when we get to the pinball segment. They are red. Well, yeah, kind of. An alert, an alert of notice, but not quite ready for a reveal for us to cover on this episode. However, everything indicates that Multimorphic is expecting to launch their new game. I'm going to say game singular question mark soon. The rumor mill, Tony, is in full froth at this point with additional comments, artists, stuff being said that they have to have Dungeon Crawler, Carl. They have to have. They have to. It's the only people. All this other stuff about their talk, like the artists like saying in this very soon upcoming game and all that. So, okay. Nobody else could have it and have rolled it this fast. So they're going to have DCC it seems. However, I've read in a couple of places, I don't have any links, one I think I saw on Reddit and then I know Nap Arcade has a piece on it. I didn't put it in the show notes though. I just remember reading it, however, that there is chatter that actually Multimorphic is pulling a Texas Chainsaw Looney Tune. And it's going to be two games, one layout. So you pick. I have no idea what the second theme is. I haven't heard a single thing. I don't know if there are limits. I don't know if they're of equal popularity. I know nothing. It's just supposedly the thought is that it would be two different layouts. I don't even know. On the Reddit post I remember reading, there was speculation that the rules would be different between the two games. And again, that was the case with Texas and Looney, so I could kind of see if they truly did that. But also if you just wanted the themes to be different, I could also see you doing Ultraman and Halloween basically the same game. It was really just a different skin on it. So anyway, that's what the reports are saying. What are your thoughts? I mean, we've already kind of talked about DCC with Multimorphic. The biggest reaction online has been frustration because they're not going to be able to play it. That has been the biggest reaction I've noticed. I did see Matt Deniman's social media post where he's like, oh, you pinball people are tenacious. My family doesn't know who's doing the game. Nobody does. Yes.
    10:36
    Please stop asking. Call him his mom. Mom! Get the camera, Mom! Take a photo of it. So, yeah. Yeah. Now, pinball people can be a little – yeah, tenacious is kind. Yeah. Very kind statement. That's a very nice way to say it.
    10:56
    So that's really all I had on news. So we do have a few emails, however, which is always nice, saves us from ourselves. First one's from Richard A. Actually, we're going to do something else from Richard a little bit later, but I want to note he did write in. Hi, guys. I thought I would share this micro bit of trivia about the Star Trek Next Generation game. At the 24 minute, 41 second mark of the most recent episode of Dropping Names and Other Things, Phil Praddy's Phil Praddy episode, Jonathan Frakes mentions they were not paid for doing the game. Instead, they were given a copy of the game. I wonder if this is 100% true, but it is interesting bit of history, Richard. I did not know that. I had heard, however, that in the Williams era, it was common to get games for doing voice work. I don't know if it was common to only get a game for voice work, but a game even back then had a value of a few thousand dollars. So in many instances, I could see it being sufficient. I remember the only real story I remember was that Sandra Bullock did not get a Demolition Man game, but Wesley Snipes and Sylvester Stallone did, even though her face is on the trans light. Yep. Yeah. There was like a campaign, I think, it might have been on Penn State, this was years ago, of people like, let's get Sandra a game. And I was kind of like, that's nice, but I mean, she can buy one. She can afford it. Like, it's Demo Man, she can afford it. Right? It's fine. Yeah. It's fine. But a possible example of bias in the industry back in the 90s. That is, just for people who have not seen or listened to it, Dropping Names is actually a pretty fun podcast. It is Jonathan Frakes and Brent Spiner interviewing. So Pyl Prady was the guest. And that's why he phrased it as Pyl Prady. So, yeah, it's Jonathan Frakes and Brent Spiner basically interviewing friends. Okay. Interesting. I have not heard of it. And it's really good. It has a conceit that can get annoying.
    13:03
    The conceit being that any time they do drop a name, they literally ring a bell. Oh, my. All right. Well, I guess does the bell get rung a lot? Some episodes it's constant. Oh, my. Okay. Some episodes it's not nearly as bad. Okay. But like I watched – I've seen several of the episodes. The one that comes to mind the most was when they were talking with like Alan Tudyk and – his name just left my head. Yeah. Tim Allen. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. From Firefly, Alan Tudyk. Oh, Nathan Fillion. That episode I watched not terribly long ago, and I've watched a couple of the other episodes they've done.
    13:57
    And it's been – it's really fun. It's really fun when they're – because they'll get like deep into the talk of like the TNG times and stuff like that, which is a lot of fun. Okay. Interesting. All right. Yeah. But yeah, no, sometimes you'll sit there and say da-da-da-da-ding, ding, ding, ding. It's like, oh, okay, man. All right, well. Well, at least they're consistent with their thematic choices. Well, and they understand that some people absolutely hate the bell because they will comment on it at times. It's like, oh, no, no, no. Almost every complaint we get is about this. Yes. Ding.
    14:36
    Dedication to the craft. Ah, ding. As what's his name would say? The guy who voiced the critic, John Lovitz. There we go, John Lovitz. Brian J. also wrote in. Brian wrote, do you think Spooky Pinball does something similar to Jersey Jack and or Barrels of Fun in that games are only limited by an order of by this date or club members get added time to order a game if they sell it immediately? Spooky has clearly left a lot of money on the table with their last two releases and possibly their next two depending on the production number they choose. Do you think they increase the amount of games they direct sell going forward at the expense of distributors since I think they would ship directly from Spooky if they are all sold out on day one and they are losing money from the difference in wholesale price and list price? Brian. All right. Tony, you want to go ahead and start with the what do you think about Spooky doing? I don't know that they're leaving that much money on the table because they have dialed back their numbers lately from some of the highs they had hit at one point, as I recall.
    15:39
    It's hard for me to say. So Beetlejuice was around a thousand units. I think the highest they ever got was Scooby-Doo, which was just under two thousand. So it is about half. Yeah. So I guess kind of depends how you think about it. I think it's probably more targeted based around my guess is they make an estimation of about how well they think a particular theme will do, and they probably buy all of the parts required in a large lump sum to get the minimum cost for it. And to do another order would require them to have higher costs, higher material costs. If you buy enough stuff to make 1,000 machines and you decide you want another 200 machines, you're not going to get the material costs for the same thing if you're only ordering 200 units worth of materials as you did when you ordered 1,000 units worth of materials. So I don't know if they're actually – how much they're leaving on the table and how much it is worth to them to keep going higher because if they end up with something that doesn't sell quite as well, they end up setting on stock. So I guess – so he's kind of got this carved into two questions. So given that, regarding his first question, do you think that Spooky is going to change from having a set limit to doing order by this date and you get it and then that's the cutoff and then they know the exact count? Because that does play to some of your parts things you brought up.
    17:16
    Do you think they do that? I don't think they do that. But I could be wrong. I mean, I don't exactly own my own business and work that way in thinking. I would think their current system is working pretty well because I don't know how much they want to move away completely away from the distributor system either.
    17:38
    Well, I know they do a certain amount of direct sales. Right, right. So, I mean, so his question on that was, well, do you think they increase the amount that they sell direct? Like cut down on the, I guess maybe as a percentage. You think they cut down on the percentage to the distributors and increase the percentage that they direct sell?
    17:58
    I don't know. I just genuinely don't know because I can see pluses and minuses on both sides. So Brian, regarding your first question about adopting the barrels, Jersy Jack approach, I don't think so. I think they're still doing raw hard count limits instead of, oh, yeah, just if you order within two weeks, you'll get one. Spooky has always been I going to use this might not be the word they would use I going to use it though They always been antsy about having production times go out too long like they really want to be done with games within a year And there are some good reasons for that, because as we've learned with many companies, especially companies that struggle to put games out on time, there are deals related to the licenses and their durations that they need to be mindful of in terms of how long they're allowed to build a particular game and such. And things start to get a little weird if the timelines go too long without having to renegotiate. So I think for Spooky, they like the idea of always having a new product out every year. I think they're really comfortable under their current leadership structure doing that sort of reveal in the fall and then basically getting games slowly ramped up, having a big presence at Texas and having, you know, and basically building out throughout that year. And their speeds do tend to get faster as they go along in the production of a game. But they always seem to want to wrap that up by late summer and get ready for the next game is sort of the feel for it. I do think they are leaving a lot of money on the table. Now, long term, I agree with Tony. These games aren't always going to be winners. Nobody hits 100% home runs. Even Elwin has some games that review much lower than others. So even though he might, you know, compared to the rest of the field, always be a home run hitter. So given that, I think that Spooky might up the counts some with these licenses that they get convinced comfortably that they are they are safer bets. But let's bear in mind, like Evil Dead, they didn't sell out of Evil Dead for months. They were so – and Tony, I've talked about this before. Bug and his team were really excited when we talked to them at Texas two years ago because they had just sold The Last Evil Dead just before the show opened. And then the FOMO built after no one could get it. Beetlejuice was an obvious, and I've mentioned that even as an outsider looking in. They should have known they could have had a higher – they left money on the table with Beetlejuice. It should have been – in my view, it was so obvious. So depending on the license and depending on the feedback they get from outsiders on the new game, you know, I think the thing to note is make sure you don't want people that just blow smoke up your butt. You need people that will honestly tell you whether this layout is good or if it sucks. But if you have that early feedback and you already know the strength of the theme, you should have a pretty good sense of like Tony and I can play a game and tell you whether or not. I'm not volunteering for us to do this. I'm just saying like we have the capability, as do lots of people in this hobby, to play a game. It doesn't even take very many plays. And we'll be like, this is a winner. This is a loser. Or it's OK. Like it's going to fall into one of those buckets. Right. So no, I think they're going to keep doing the model that they are doing because it is working for them. And I think they worry about production going too long if they leave it open-ended, especially with what the rumors are of the next themes that they possibly control. Because it's stuff like Gremlins and Goonies. Those are themes where you want to have more than 1,000 games because you're going to sell more than 1,000. The other question that Brian had about the do I think they increase the amount of games they direct sell. As a percentage, I'm going to – like Tony, I really have no idea. I'm going to say no. Tony and I years ago, I think it was three or four years ago, we had a conversation about like the industry doesn't really need distributors like hypothetically especially. Right. It's real weird when they do direct sales, and even Stern does some direct sales now. But here's the thing where I will – I'll point to – this is an argument that Zach Minnie, who obviously owns a distributorship and has a biased opinion about the importance of distributors. Yeah, he does. But what I will say is based off of feedback from other collectors that I've spoken to, his concern that, of course, works to his advantage is these companies are not prepared to do the service calls.
    22:42
    And that tends to be the case. A lot of people – and I'm not talking like little ones like Spooky. I'm talking big ones where people will call the company and get no resolution. You could go entirely direct if the company is willing to assume full responsibility for after-sales support. None of them seem to want to pull the trigger on it. And so I do want to clarify, I still think you could have this system work without an independent distributor network, but it would require significant investment on all of these companies to actually take care of their games and post support. And are they willing to maintain that level of staff to do it when you no longer have the Greg Bones of the world? That's who does it for Zach is Greg. He answers all those tech calls and calls people back and tells them how to fix the game, handles the parts that get – like I can't get a new part. A lot of times they can't get a new part from a manufacturer. They send them one that they own in stock, and then they work on the process for eight months to get the refund. Right, and I think that is a very strong and important part because I do think that is what the distributor – Hypothetically, you could move away. So some of these companies want their cake and want to eat it too. Like they want to be able to make because Brian's absolutely right. They will make more money not having to give a cut to the distributor. So that's why you see them start doing it more and more. But the rub is you do that too much. At some point, the distributors can say, I don't really make any money off of you. Why should I carry you? I'm getting all these calls. Yeah, just I'm going to wash my hands of you because I'm not making a living off of you. They got to walk that line. And I think some of them have run into some situations where they started to get a little too, I'll use the word greedy because they see, again, if you're really wanting the distributors to do all your work for you, it's not very, it's not cool to go ahead and start just like undercutting your own network by selling direct. So it's a line where they're trying to – I think Barrels is kind of flirting with that in a negative way right now. They've gotten – they've seen the warmth. They felt the warmth of the sun, and they're like, we could fly closer to that. I think Spooky went through that back with their fang club a few years ago and the whole thing again. So they have their own – you guys, it's like – think of it like any old grift. You can wet your beak a little bit. They can wet their beak with some direct sails. Right. But like some of them, I think, want to get to the point where they feel like in my in my head, I'm just imagining this. I've never heard anyone actually say it, but like, gosh, wouldn't it be great if the distributors had to sell all of the like unlimited stuff and we sold all the LEs?
    25:16
    But the LEs are where all the money is made, right? The big money is made that I could see some maybe thinking that they could get to that point. But without the LEs, a lot of the leverage for the distributors might actually evaporate because that's where most of the money is made. Right. And as much as I know, people love the pinball two cars analogy. I think in this particular situation, it really works when you think about the direct sales vehicles. So the Rivens, the Teslas, that style of thing versus, you know, just going to your local Toyota dealership to buy a car and having service people there versus like in the case of Riven, I know because I know people who actually who have a Riven. There's a service shop in town here that is specifically a Riven-owned service shop. So the Kansas City area people with ribbons have a place to take a car for repairs. Right. That is specialized and knows their equipment. But if you don't have access to something like that because of all the direct sales, like you were saying, that turns into a huge problem. Well, you know, pinball still exists. This is one of those interesting, you know, it's a quirk of this hobby. It exists in this very odd space. I call it the space of jank where it's not really consumer friendly the way it should be for what they're targeting. Like the spookies and barrels of the world are not operator oriented companies. They are clearly targeting homeowners, even Stern's mostly homeowner at this point, that they don't send text to your home. And there's not a easy place to just bring in your pinball machine for servicing. Like that's kind of the sign of the amaturness of the or maybe that might be a bit harsh, the smallness of the hobby. Like it's it's just not, you know, again, we need to have service locations for vehicles because everybody's got one and we got to have a place to take them. And for smaller products, it's OK to send stuff in. Watches are a good example. Other electronics sometimes can be a good example of it's like, all right, well, there, you know, maybe you can find an independent place to take it in. Or you can ship it back to the manufacturer for repair. That's really common with watches.
    27:32
    This, it's like it's too big to ship. So, you know, like homeowners don't want to box up and pallet up a game and ship it to get repaired. And no big places really do it. So you do have independent repair people operating on the fringes, but they're not generally used by the company, the manufacturers or the distributors. The normal rule of thumb is if something breaks, I call for help. My distro will give me my parts, but I got to fix it. Right. Or maybe if I can't fix it, I'll call someone and maybe a distributor might. I know Zach with Flippin' Out sometimes has paid for the repair person. I don't think that's very common in the industry though and most of the time. Those are only, I think, in very rare instances anyway because historically there was always a certain assumption that if you own a pinball machine, You need to actually own a soldering iron. You need to have a certain level of mechanical competence. You don't need to be an electrician or an electrical engineer, but you need to be willing to follow some step-by-step guides. There is someone. I'm not going to call them out because I don't want them to feel bad. Some people listening, I have no idea if they listen or not, but some people listening will know. There's a thread on Pinside who's been going for years, someone who's building from scratch their own game, and they do not have the skill set. They don't. And that's why it's been, I don't know, it's been like seven years. It's so painful to read because people are giving photos. The person can't follow the photos. And so it's just, it's like this trial, like that project should never have been undertaken. Like just logically, it was, it was biting way more than you could chew. It's very much one of those things. It's like somebody who's built a doghouse or a birdhouse has decided that that means they can now build themselves a house. It's almost exactly that. It's like they had done some, like, I can't remember anymore, like some model kit work. And so they've never repaired a machine. And then they're like, I can build one. I'm going to try and build one from scratch. It's like, it's fascinating. I'm not going to plug it. I once made a Pinewood Derby car. I'm not trying to call out the specific person. I'm just like it's an example of like there's just a certain level of – now they probably at this point would be able to be coached through a repair. So like owning pinball machines would make sense for someone like this.
    29:55
    I once built a Pinewood Derby car, so now I'm going to get one of those Shelby Cobra kit cars and build it.
    30:03
    I mean, yeah, kind of. Yeah, I mean, it was a pretty big step up, yes. So yeah, that's not a bad analogy. All right, last email, this one. So Richard again emailed. He actually, I'm saving the email because he just, he went ahead and kind of preemptively gave us a bunch of discussion topics. Like, I don't remember how many. I didn't count, like 10 of them. Nice. So I went ahead because it's a lighter pinball section and I pulled two of them for our discussion today.
    30:32
    So can you tell me more about your thoughts about Pinball 3 Pinball 3.0 art? Dennis, you said this was the question you wanted. I did not think I needed to. Your opinions were pretty clear, but please rant on about it. This should be good. To be clear, you did a little in your last episode, but please go on. So this I do have a link in the show notes to. I have a link in the show notes to the to. It's not a thread. It's the page on pin side. That is the entry for the proposed game. Now, first things first, I need to correct. I need to correct myself. It's not actually Bride of Pinbot 3.0. I couldn't remember the real name for it. I just remember they have the 2.0 kits. The name of the game was Bride of Pinbot 25th Anniversary Super LE. So let me start with that, Tony. You might remember that. I don't remember that name. What arrogance to go ahead and decide that this, of all things, was worthy of being called a super anything. Super Ellie. That you, not Williams, mind you, not WMS, you third-party upstart think that you get to deem something that you are worthy to bestow. 25th anniversary Super LE. It's not even your place to celebrate the anniversary, but that it's a Super LE. Okay. In our internal notes, Tony, I've grabbed a couple of images from that page so that you can remember. So if you scroll down enough internally, you'll be able to – I have a picture of the – I don't know what – it's basically it was only ever flyer stuff, but I'm going to say what I think was going to be the Translite, a picture of what was going to be the mask on the playfield where you do the ball locks. And I didn't put the original mask on there, but I have a picture of the actual game, Translite, or Backlash, so you can see what Bride of Pinball looks like. Bride of Pinball looked mechanical, okay? The proposed version of the Super LE ditched that art, gave her hair. She has long hair. She has hair. And she's just like in a pinup pose with a little car driving under her knee. And it was just it was it doesn't look like the art like we could debate Totan. We talked about Totan, the new remake of Totan. And you've got the Brian Allen art. And like you can see the inspiration, but it's different. But it was a really popular art package. Bride of Pinball had a really popular art package. But instead of like trying to make it feel like a new, like a different take on the original art style, this just went with what?
    33:21
    I'm struggling so hard. Alice, Trailer Park Alice. They trailer parked Bride. It always felt very uncanny valley to me in that bad way.
    33:35
    It was never quite the same. Yeah. To me, it just it felt like they really didn't want to look so much like a robot anymore. Gosh, wouldn't it be nice if we could just like have a sexy person on there? But let's just like make her silver. And I don't know, because like the original art was Python. He wasn't exactly subtle with stuff. Right. But I just it just I think it just looks like trash. I couldn't even I can't remember a single person who praised this art package. But anyway, you guys can go and look at the at the image images with the link in the show notes. So you'll see that and then you'll see what they wanted to do with the the play field is less egregious other than the mask. Again, they're trying to, they're like, went out of their way to try and make her look attractive, I guess. I just, I don't know. It was just, it was, but the whole game, the whole game was this, this thing.
    34:31
    There's like the idea that they were going to, so they were promoting it, like new hand-drawn artwork. This is pre-AI art. So yes, that part was true. They were going to have the Bride of Pinball 2.0 rule set. So it was going to be a new rule set. They're just going to have this deep rule set, but it was really still the same rule set they'd already developed. They were going to have these new light shows.
    34:53
    What are we going to do to get you guys to give us money? New light shows. You've got to have the new light shows. The laser cut illustrated apron. Mirror blades. These were like back then. This is the stuff that people were just falling for left and right. So this was of an era where it was I just felt it was exploitative of the license. They wanted to make more money off of Bride, and they figured the best way to do it was sell entire cabs with this trashy art package on it, and I would have been embarrassed. Right, and the thing in that list, one of the things you left out was the ambient RGB lighting to light up the entire room. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Because that's what I want. People like their room to glow. It was – anyway, it was just – it was of its era.
    35:50
    What is this? This was like 2015 I think was when this was – it never made it. But compared to like the original Bride where it's like you could see all the construction. Like if you look at the back glass of Bride at some point, you'll see like there are like little cars and stuff. They're working on her. They're still building her leg. She's got her leg extended, kind of like a showgirl would be kicking her leg, except she's actually sitting. That's how they do it. And instead with this, they're just like, nah, let's just have some vehicle thing driving under her. She's just like this obstacle in the way. She's too busy trying to do her Sports Illustrated swimsuit pose, but she won't be in a swimsuit, but it's okay because she's a robot. And she'll just be flipping her hair. It's a robot. But is her hair supposed to be cables? I'm not sure. Yeah, it's cables. I get it. If you zoom in enough, it looks like cut wires. I don't want to zoom in anymore on her. I'm just – it makes me sad. Sad. It was just like – everyone was like, what are you thinking? Money grab.
    36:48
    Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can't remember what the price was, but it was a lot. Like this was this is just like they just like had these as those banners if I remember at TPF But they never moved forward with it just as well And then Big Lebowski is what they moved forward with which was a much smarter thing to move forward with But then all the other stuff hit Dutch, and it just got to be a thing that we talked about last time. So anyway, you look at it and be your own judge, Richard. But that's why I have the link there for you guys. But I was just like this. Again, it's risky when you have iconic art packages like that. And I just thought they figured that it was easy. I agree with you. I think a cash grab. I think they thought it was easy money. Just slap some new art on the thing and people would fall all over themselves for it. But I don't know. They never made it. So we don't really know if they would have or wouldn't have. And that's okay. That's okay. Topic number two from Richard that I pulled out. These weren't into the order. I've assigned them numbers. The episode where you had Zack Minney on. Oh, that was way back. That was a long time ago. Long time. But we already mentioned him earlier in the show. What a great episode. Lots of bleeping. Was that one of our last big guest hosts? We had like the year of interviews. We did. Yeah, we had like that year where we had a lot of interviews and guest hosts. He might have been one of the last.
    38:08
    Ryan, Ryan C. from Australia might have been the last one because that audio was. Oh, yeah. I was so burned out after having to repair the audio. There was something something went wrong. It was Zencast. It wasn't it wasn't our hardware. No, it was the Zencaster problem. It screwed up and it was – We abandoned Zencaster. We did. That was like we have to stop this. We can't live with this level of editing. It was ridiculous. I spent more time editing than it took to record the episode, which I don't normally do. Right. I don't normally spend that much effort. As long as I keep it clean, there's not a lot of editing normally required. It's not usually a lot of bleeping either, but there were a lot of bleeping in that one, I guess.
    38:46
    Such a funny episode. Dennis, how did you end up becoming Zach's co-host on The Pinball Show? By the way, you two have not done an episode in a while. Is everything okay? So this one's going to be a lighter one for Tony because these weren't really Tony-oriented questions. And you've already weighed in, of course, on the old episode. Let me start backwards. Everything is okay. The issue, we'll probably talk about it the next time we do record The Pinball Show. But basically, we haven't recorded in over a month. And the reason is Zach actually got surprised by his wife with a vacation on a trip. So they had to leave the day we would normally record, which was last Sunday. And I couldn't do that Saturday because I had been covering World Cup stuff and I still had to that day. This last Saturday actually got canceled because everyone's left even though there's still watch parties. And so I but I'd already scheduled to do a wristwatch live stream on YouTube. So I couldn't offer up the morning. I actually looked at what it would take to throw together a solo episode. And I was like, I don't have any of them. I don't have all the sound pack like he does the editing. So I don't have all the sound. I have some older sound clips. Anyway, long story short, he put the announcement out on our discord. And and we just we couldn't do the Sunday. I couldn't do the Saturday. And that is what it is. And then the episode before that was supposed to happen. And he had a housing incident happen. Like, I think the basement flooded or something. He got up and the basement was flooded. So he had to deal with that instead of record. So we had to cancel that one. Regarding Richard's question about how I became co-host on the pinball show, that part actually is not very interesting. I was already doing the co-hosting with the TWIP podcast, This Week in Pinball podcast. And then Zach had decided he did not want to do the podcast anymore under This Week in Pinball. And the idea was formulating to form the Pinball Network. And so when that got formed up, went ahead and started, basically continued the show. It was actually going to be a different show. I mean, there might be a little bit of interesting stuff. Yeah, I remember because I remember the background sausage making of that from what I saw was so busy. Yeah, it was. I mean, the whole it was, gosh, such this was, you know, he wasn't as busy with his flipping out business. And so there's sort of this this vision that is really Zach's vision. He you know, he's far more of a dreamer than I am. And he thought what a cool idea it would be to have a place, kind of an umbrella to organize not just podcasts but streamers and writing articles and just like all the basically forms of media creation that exist in any hobby and allow it to help promote and grow those entities. And the thought would be you'd have new ones that would come in. Some would be like, I don't really want to be in the network anymore. And that was fine too. We expected people to come in and out of it as it makes sense for them. It's sort of this really broad blanket thing. But because most of us knew podcasting that were involved in the discussions, the initial main thing was a slate of shows that would all air under the Pinball Network. And so that was how Final Round with Marty and Jeff, like that was the idea there. And then we had the pinball show, which was sort of seen like it was going to be a weekly show. So that one was going to be an anchor. Silver Ball Chronicles, which is still going on off the network at this point, obviously, but with David and Ron. And so there's just all these little pieces was there. And even the pinball show was envisioned to be different. So it was going to be a weekly, and the thought was there were going to be five hosts, but not all on at the same time. And so basically, Ken Cromwell and Zach Minnie were going to anchor it. And then on alternating weeks, I would do it and Greg Bone would do it. And so we'd always have a team of three. And when we actually launched, it was three. You listen to the first like 10 episodes of the pinball show. It's Ken, me, and Zach doing the show. And so that was the idea of it. But again, I mentioned the TWIP podcast, so I guess to kind of tie a bow on that, how that happened is kind of maybe more interesting, more happenstance. So this week in pinball was going as the – that's under the kineticist now, but it was going as an online news source basically for pinball.
    43:15
    And Jeff introduced me to Zach at Texas Pinball Festival. Like I'd seen straight around the middle. So I knew about Zach and Greg, but they were they were walking down the hall and Jeff saw him. And and he was Jeff was already working with Zach on some stuff. And he introduced me. And at the time, Zach had, I think, at the show a or maybe he aired it on straight down the middle. But he had a Walking Dead game and he had changed all the bulbs to red LEDs. And I made fun of him for it. And he played along with it like he knew I was joking. And so I mean, don't get me wrong. It looked ugly, but he knew that I was being humorous about it. So anyway, we kind of had this banter, just a little banter thing because he was able to pick up on what I was doing because we just sort of had that interaction, which Jeff found quite amusing, I believe. So anyway, the Twip podcast started up and that was it was to me, it was really weird as I heard about it. I mean, like not the not the show itself, but so Zach was the host. Jeff really wanted there to be a podcast and he really did not want to be on it. So like he really he loved podcasts, but he didn't want to be a host. And so Zach was the host and Twip. Zach was the, you know, the the the presenting host. Jeff obviously hosted it on Twip like it was tied to Twip. And then the plan was there would be a rotating cast of guest hosts. And so I think Zach and Jeff, depending, would work to find the guests, at least early on. I think Zach eventually started to grab more of them. And eventually I was really early on. I was in the first 10 episodes. I don't remember when I was, maybe episode seven or eight or something. And so they had me on and I had listened to the prior episodes. And so when I was on, I told myself, I'm going to do this differently.
    45:05
    Everyone else who had been on. Everyone caved to Zack. So Zack would push back against an opinion, a stance, either to play devil's advocate or because he actually disagreed. Doesn't really matter. Entertainment's entertainment. And everyone else, and this is an instinctive philosophy, I feel, that a lot of humans have, which is we are conflict adverse. And so when someone pushes back on something and you're being witnessed, the instinct is to try and appease. But I know what happened with World War II and I ain't doing no appeasement. So I went in telling myself, Zach is going to deliberately try and push back against me. The answer is to turn the knob up one level and push back against him every time he does it. And so when I co-hosted with him, it was very antagonistic. Not mean, but like I'm arguing back. I'm not saying, oh, yeah, like, oh, I see your point. No, Zach, you have no point. Your points are all wrong. Plus, we both did a whole bunch of really stupid voices because there's like a top 10 list. And so like my everyone who listens to this knows how terrible my impressions are and my pronunciations. So it was just like we just did that. It was it was actually a lot of fun to record. And when Jeff ended up hearing that one, he reached out to Zach and said, that's what I want the Twip podcast to be. That's what I was hoping it to be. They didn't change it right away. They continued to do the process. But then I got brought back as a guest and I got brought back again as a guest. And then eventually, because it was weekly, I ended up being on every other week. I was always the person. I was always the co-host on the opposite weeks. And then there was the random guest the other times. And that's how we got started with a podcasting relationship. And so when it was time to end the TWIP podcast, Zach wanted me to do the pinball show with him. Though at this point, we don't argue like that nearly as much as we used to. But sometimes, sometimes he'll push back on. But we spend so much time usually going over the news and the releases and stuff. Right. It's more like how we do it kind of, though we don't answer listener emails on that show. So anyway, I hope that wasn't too long, Richard. But yeah, that's kind of the kind of the background. So I co-hosted with him on another show and I because Jeff thought I would be a fun guest and he really liked the way it went and Zach liked the way it went. And that's just why we did it the way we did it. Video games, Tony. When I started putting my notes together, I keep a running list of links that I just copy and paste into OneNote. I've got a special OneNote file that I copy and paste into it. And so much stuff had happened between my air conditioning and my knee and everything going on and discussions that we'd had like on the Discord and the like. When I pulled up my notes to organize everything, I'm like, didn't we already talk about all of that? And I had to look at the dates. I'm like, no, no, that's right. We were talking about the fact that Microsoft's layoffs were coming, but they weren't going to be official until after our last episode recorded. So I was like, oh, yeah, let's throw all of this together. And they did come and they are large and this is only the tip of the iceberg. So Microsoft as a whole announced that they were laying off 4,800 people. 1,600 of them are in the Xbox division being immediately laid off. The caveat on that is that the plan is by the end of the fiscal year, 20% of Xbox is going to be laid off. So they're laying a full 20% off by the end of the fiscal year. In addition to all of those cuts, announcements had also come out that ahead of these cuts, they got approved to hire 2,200 H-1B visa workers. Workers. So the morale that was hit hard by the loss of so many employees took a further hit when all of this stuff started coming out about H-1B visa workers being hired and approvals to bring in so many. Microsoft is already the sixth largest user of the H-1B program in the United States.
    49:35
    So the morale at Microsoft is extremely low. Lots of people, they don't know who's going, how things are going to hold up because a lot of the cuts included a lot of people in the middle management and upper management levels. A lot of experienced workers got cut.
    49:59
    id Software took major hits, including one of the original 13 people who've been with id since the beginning.
    50:08
    Gone. Then Obsidian took big hits. All of their companies took big hits. They also reported on the fact that the rumors had been true. Double Fine and Compulsion Games have spun back off to be their own independent entities. Ninja Theory and Undead Labs have been sold off.
    50:33
    They are rearranging plans, and the nice thing is they released all of the franchises to those companies.
    50:44
    So those companies get to keep their franchises that they're known for. So they didn't kick those companies out and then said, oh, no, you can't make the games you've made in the past. They're ours. So they did spin off that as part of everything when they went out. One of the interesting things that I saw in the series of interviews and statements that were put out is the new CEO, Asha Sharma, said that Mahjong, so Minecraft, and King's mobile games are Xbox's largest active player base. Both of them are apparently bigger than Xbox player base. Right. So they have been moved to a new level of prominence, shifted out from underneath their parent organizations and moved directly to her control. So in addition to all of that, Todd Howard with Bethesda came out and made a bunch of major statements afterwards because Bethesda got hit with a lot of releases too.
    51:51
    They said that remasters of Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas are coming. Apparently there is a new Fallout project under development with Obsidian who did Fallout New Vegas, which a lot of people consider their favorite Fallout game. Obsidian did a really good job with it. They did. And it's interesting because Obsidian almost got a huge bonus for the making of that game. But the way it was written was the exact opposite of the thing we've been dealing with with Subnautica where it was like a very not hard goal to hit. But the way it was written is our fallout. They'd get a huge, massive bonus if it had hit like a 90 percent rating and it was like an 89 percent rating. It was buggy when it came out. So I heard it. Right. But it's still like I said, it's hugely popular. So they're apparently working on something that might or might not be a good thing in some people's because Obsidian's popular Avowed game, after they took their losses from people being let go, the team that would have been working on the sequel to Avowed was moved to this Fallout project. So there will be no sequel to Avowed coming. Uh, also they did state that Fallout 5 is in pre-production. What does that mean? I don't know because Elder Scrolls 6 has been in production for eight bloody years. Yes. Very long time. I don't even remember the scrolls anymore. I don't even, the kids today don't even know about Arrows to the Knee. Oh no, they know about that because they still play Skyrim. Oh, yeah. On their fridge. On their refrigerator. Yeah, that's right. On their watches, on their car, Skyrim's everywhere.
    53:53
    Now they did say that Elder Scrolls 6 is still coming. It's very far along. They say it is in a playable state, whatever that means. But there's no more information on announcement dates. There's no more video releases or trailers or teasers or anything. They're just still being worked on. But Elder Scrolls 6's announcement was very much one of those things that was thrown together at the last minute because everybody badly wanted one, and that was a terrible BlizzCon anyway.
    54:32
    That wasn't at BlizzCon. Not at BlizzCon. No, that was at – was it E3 or was it the Christmas time? It might have been the Games – The Game Awards. Yeah, Game Awards or something. I want to feel it was in the winter, but I don't remember for sure. But I was thinking that was the same year they did, though, Don't You Have Phones thing. Oh. It might have been the same year. Yeah, that was a long time ago. Yeah, I was thinking it was the same year. But no, yeah, it's one of those things that was just – The announcement was literally a trailer was literally just a video pan of a bunch of nothing like Sky and Farms. And then it said Elder Scrolls VI coming soon. Yeah, I know. I remember it was just like it was just cinematic is even generous. Yeah it was just something It basically the logo It was basically But the Elder Scrolls VI development team took heavy hits The ZeniMax Online, the developer of the Elder Scrolls Online, their teams took heavy hits. And part of this discussion they put out was that Bethesda and ZeniMax are now working closely together on Elder Scrolls VI and future Elder Scrolls online projects. My guess is because ZeniMax had more than 350 people laid off and Bethesda also took a large series of layoffs. So they're probably taking the teams that are most closely related and having them work together just so they can have a big enough team to not lose time on their current projects is my guess. Also in this big old giant time of layoffs, Ubisoft Barcelona, which was hit by layoffs following some of Ubisoft's layoffs following the release of Assassin's Creed Black Flag Resynced, which released and reviewed very well and has been doing pretty good. They staged a three-day strike as part of their protest over the layoffs that came after all of that.
    56:46
    That probably didn't help with the fact that Black Flag is supposed to have an offline mode that failed to work when the Ubisoft's Kinect server was down for a period of time over the weekend, and nobody could play Ubisoft games, even the ones that are supposed to be playable offline. So proving that everything is becoming more and more continuously interconnected.
    57:16
    The other big thing I had in here was Summer Games Done Quick. Yep. That was the week that started immediately after we went and did our last podcast. So it was good. I didn't watch as much of it as I normally do, but there were several runs that still caught my eye. And the ones that will be popular to everybody is they did a total nuclear annihilation run. So there was pinball on the main stage. That was on Thursday night, as I recall. And I thought it went really well. Actually, it was very rather impressive. Yeah, the play was impressive. I didn't know what to expect because Pinball's never been on the stage period. They used to have a kind of – Like a side thing. Yeah, like a side activity on a side stream. But obviously the runner was very good.
    58:14
    Definitely knew the Game Stone Quick crowd, knew how to be energetic. Yeah, I saw Steve there. He was hyping people and there was all this excitement. And I think her name is Bree, the runner's wife, really good on commentary, like explaining just enough. I saw some post discussion I think on Reddit where some people were like they wish she had explained the rules more. I'm like I get why as a pinball person you think that this was the right way to do it. It was just enough to explain some of the moves, some of the stuff so that people would get – it's like watching the washing machine rhythm games and stuff. We can't fully understand everything. Just kind of tell us what's happening. We don't need to know what those targets over there say and all of that. It's just – so they just had this whole thing. The ridiculousness of having people vote for what kitchen utensils he's going to push the flipper buttons with was surprisingly fun. It was surprising. I saw it and I was like, I get how it's going to work, but I don't know how this is going to work. And it actually worked pretty well. I actually kind of wish the frying pan had won after seeing that. Yeah, so I was like, you know what? I thought they did pinball good with that. It looked really polished. It was fun. It was easy to understand. It was right amount of couch, right amount of player, right amount of hype. So we'll see if they bring and do more pinball in the future. The interesting thing to me is that there's a lot of stuff that I don't think – there's a lot of pinball that are very popular, fun pinball that I think is too complex for them to want to pull in and necessarily try to explain. Maybe complex isn't the right word. Too fast and over too quickly to fit in quite as well without everything being such an easy-to-understand flow. Right. There's too much that would require several games before people to get a real feel for it, where with TNA they were able to get the feel very quickly. Yeah, it's hard to say obviously because there are a lot of challenges that exist with pinball. There are other games where you can pick a mode like just play through a wizard mode or something where they've got their options, their features programmed into some of the modern games. I don't know what to do next per se. I just think that I'm hoping that the Games Done Quick people were pleased enough with how the stream went that they'll be willing to entertain it. Not at every show, but I think the idea of, I mean, and to their credit, they gave them a choice time slot. They gave them a beautiful time slot. That was an incredibly great time slot.
    61:02
    But it was a very limited period of time, too. But they stuck within it. I thought they did a really good job with it. So I was very impressed. When it initially came out, I'd been surprised. I thought it'd be one of those during the day or overnight time slots. Or if it was going to be like a prime slot, it would have been early in the week when viewership is lower. So but it was a Thursday is like prime of prime for that in my mind. Yeah, it was a great spot. Yeah, it was a really good spot. There were a couple other things that really stood out to me. And of course, anything that stood out to you, Dennis, one of the things was the hilarity of when Games Done Quick is going on. I have a bad habit of I'll put the stream on like I've got a little holder thing that holds my tablet. I'll have it like next to the bed and I'll start the stream going and then I'll fall asleep. And then I'll wake up in the middle of the night and the stream's still going and I'll just lay there and watch the stream or whatever.
    62:02
    I woke up during the horror block and they were playing The Evil Within 2. And I woke up at the very, very, very end of The Evil Within 2. And I just woke up to hearing the couch saying, now he's got to kill his wife. And I'm like, what? It's been a while since I played that game. I don't remember that part.
    62:31
    It was interesting. It was fun. I liked the – most everybody probably liked the Baltro run who's played it. It was interesting to see because that's the card game, Roguelite, where you're kind of building up. They weren't playing to win so much as they were playing to the game will only go so far and then you break the scoring. So they were playing to break the scoring.
    63:02
    And they succeeded in it, but they were playing on a like random seed. It was it was it was Azdeh who led the final game of Games Done Quick, that Pokemon modded thing. What was that, back in January? Yes. But they were playing, they basically, they had a machine find seeds where it was possible for this to happen, and then he played it out, and it just went very poorly. But he succeeded, but it went very poorly. Pretty much the entire way through, it was about as bad as it could go and not fail.
    63:46
    But it was pretty fun. And the Tetris run, or it was the, they apparently, they ran a Tetris competition during the entire thing. And then they had the finals during primetime. And it was interesting to see because when they brought the Tetris final, final contestants out, after a full week of watching streamers who are, you know, faces with couches, who are faces doing the whole entertaining thing, To just see two solid players set there in utter silence and play while the couch is talking about what's going on. And then whenever the camera's on the players, the players are just like embarrassed looking almost as they're just like playing like insanely high level Tetris. So I thought that was a lot of fun.
    64:39
    The other things that jumped out at me was the troll showcase of Mario Maker. Yeah, Mario Maker is almost always a good idea at Games Done Quick. I don't know why they don't always do one. I don't know. Normally just the fun ones are fun, but this one being intentionally set up to be as trollish as possible led to it. It was actually too hard, though. It was. It was too hard for the time limit. It was. Yeah. It was hilarious, though.
    65:08
    Resident Evil Requiem. I skipped this one since I'm thinking about playing it, so I deliberately didn't watch it. I think that that makes a lot of sense. There was a couple Resident Evil games played this time, and the thing I noticed with all of them that kind of bothers me, just from the fact that having played a tiny little bit of Resident Evil, I've not played a whole lot, is how often in Resident Evil, apparently the speedrunning thing is just, oh, just ignore the enemies and walk past them. And just how often it actually works. Yeah, I mean, I sometimes wonder if the games are maybe meant to be that way because ammo can be very scarce in those games. While I didn't watch Requiem, I did watch the Resident Evil 3 run with a guitar controller. That was after it, which I thought was pretty good commentary. And yeah, he was mostly guitar fretting his way away from enemies. Yeah. At times, the pathing of this enemy and how they move, they're coming this way. So I just need to step like this and they'll slide right past me and I'm just fast enough to stay ahead of them. Yeah. So it requires perfect movement, but they're a speed runner. They better have perfect movement. Yeah. So and the last thing I had on my list that had jumped out to me, it's a fairly new game, is Mouse P.I. for Hire.
    66:30
    Just I really liked the look of the game. It's in black and white. It's got an old-school noir detective feel to it while being like Steamboat Willie cartoony. It was actually a lot of fun to watch.
    66:49
    But those are the big things that had jumped out at me this time around. They raised $2.4 million this time. I didn't notice too many of their – sometimes they've had the really big like two-hour delays to try and hit points. I didn't feel like that happened as much this time unless it happened in the points where I wasn't paying attention because, again, I spent – Yeah, I know. I didn't pick up on any in the prime time that were super obvious or people clearly stalling to finish their game. So that they could hit this showcase incentive glitch tests or glitch showcases and stuff like that. No, nothing too bad. I think they got the timing. I heard they fell behind pretty early on the first day. And then there were some longer delays with technical setup that I felt seemed a little excessive. Like, you know, weirdly long delays between two video games, whereas there wasn't a huge long delay with the pinball setup and switching back. Yeah. So sometimes I'm always a little curious. They had some audio issues on the first day I watched too where it was just like janky audio. Like the mics for the couch interviews weren't live and stuff like just like basic stuff that was – it seemed to get it fixed after that Sunday but it was a little weird.
    68:13
    They did have more fire alarms pulled. Oh, did they? Okay. I didn't watch when those happened. Any runs that you thought were terrible and the person should never be back?
    68:24
    Not off the top of my head. Yeah, I might not have seen enough to really – I like to find at least one, though. I mean, there were some of the middle-of-the-night runs. A couple of them had no couch, and the runner obviously needed a couch to play off. I can't remember what game I watched. It was not a middle-of-the-night one, but it was a similar boat because I remember being exasperated afterwards. I'm like, if you can't be entertaining, get a couch that is. Yes. Like, if you're too busy, I totally understand, like the Tetris people, I totally understand. 100%. With what you're doing, you cannot give running commentary, or maybe you're bad at it. Not everyone who comes to these things needs to be a streamer, but that's what the couch is for. Right. Get a couch. Get a good couch. And then other times, you almost feel bad because somebody will have a couch, and because they've either streamed with their own games or they've been on couches enough. You will recognize it's like, oh, wow, every single person on this couch is very knowledgeable, very good and hilarious. And so is the so is the runner. And it turns into just like you're barely paying attention to the run because they're making. Oh, that was the there was the the SpongeBob SquarePants nude run where they were playing whichever SpongeBob game it was. But they were running – it wasn't even a mod. It is in the game where like Patrick is nude and SpongeBob is wearing rear-endless chaps.
    70:03
    So – but then that got the hit and they were running it. But that was one of the ones where it was a lot of interesting information coming off the couch and the streamers – because it was a race. And it was going – it was very – I'm finding I'm really liking the race. The races and the co-ops and the stuff. Races are great. I think they're a lot of fun a lot of times. Yeah, I was trying to think of any sort of standouts. Couch-wise standout, I will say, the crowd seemed to really love the Ed, Ed, and Eddie run. Oh, yeah. Where those guys just kept chanting, dig a hole and stuff. It was a little grating for me eventually, but clearly it was working for the people that are into that. That run was just starting when I was heading out to do other stuff. And so that one. Yeah, I heard. And they did a pretty good job.
    70:53
    So there was the Mario 64 TAS run to show the most efficient ways to grab any. I guess they've done it before because a lot of the tech was different. It was well commentated. I actually am very judgmental of TAS. I would probably ban it from speedruns because I don't really care what the robot can do. Like it's not like inherently it feels anathema to speed running to me. Right. Who cares what the hypothetical best thing is? If a human being can't actually achieve these things, I'm not. I think that's why I like the Wind Waker runs where they found things that are task-like, but you do them yourself with a controller. Like we saw back in January when they did that run. But yeah, overall I thought it went pretty well. Yeah, it was good. Always good. They did have themselves a little whoopsie shortly afterwards for the anniversary of Metal Gear – or not Metal Gear, Metal Slug. They were running a sponsorship from S&K with Metal Slug, and a lot of people were coming out saying it's like you just raised all this money for charity, and now you're running this thing under a sponsorship supported almost wholly by the Saudi Arabian government. But so they actually ended it and apologized. And they're like, we won't be taking the money. We won't be doing any more sponsorships with this group. Like, just like done. Yeah. So that seemed to satisfy people. So, yeah, no, seemed to. I still would have thought they would have done a little bit more research into their thing. I mean, I don't know. They couldn't even get the mics to always work on couch interviews. So that is valid. I don't know how many people are behind the scenes on this sort of thing. And I'm sure there's a lot. There has to be a huge technical turnout. A lot of the stuff like the sponsorships might be relatively automated. I don't know. Like the submission process. I don't know.
    72:50
    I'm not sure. That's everything I had. I didn't have a whole lot. I spent most of this last week just trying to survive. Trying to live. Stay cool. It's been crazy. It's been hard. Life is hard. Well, for those that want to reach out about how hard their life is, they can email us at Eclectic Gamers Podcast at gmail.com. We are at facebook.com slash Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Once again, I will plug our Patreon, patreon.com slash Eclectic underscore gamers. We're on Twitch and Instagram as Eclectic underscore gamers. And we should be back in a couple of weeks. I reckon the multimorphic reveal will be revealed officially. So we'll have our... Isn't the official reveal date like this week? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. But I just wait till it happens. I don't live in anticipation anymore. More for such things. Oh, God, that would be such a good pinball machine. Yeah. Oh, man, it'd be so good. They won't do it. Oh, I know they won't do it, but it would be such a good pinball machine. Yeah. Oh, well. Until next time, my name is Dennis. I am Tony. Goodbye. See ya.