Workout and body shaping guru Peter Small collapsed and died today during the taping of his latest infomercial. The coroner's office is quoted as saying that the death was caused by heart failure brought on by muscle stress to the lower bunged hole. Exercise, Fox. Yeah, yeah, right. Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Tilt Podcast, the show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nattengale. Hello, how are you today? I'm great, and this is episode 160. Everybody wants more Slammy and Tilty. Oh, they do? They do. I put a Facebook thing out there. Almost everyone was yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All three people were, yes, yes, yes. No, we had at least six or seven. The only person that did not want it was Joe C. Yeah, he wanted more Dusty Rhodes. Yes, and we're going to have that because we're going to be talking about Dave Fix eventually. Yeah, Dave Fix is forever. He is the American dream. He's the American pinball dream. Yes. But we're not alone, Bruce. Who do we have? Oh, boy, you're going to make me talk about these people now? These are the current and holding champions of the PIA Podcasters Awards, which we did beat them on an award before this. Yes, it is Scott Larson and Joshua Roop from the Pinball... It's not the Pinball Market Trends. It would be the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. Yes. How you doing, guys? Yeah, thanks for having us on, guys. It is totally awesome to be here. This is like the original cool podcast, right? Oh. The OG. Yeah, wow. So this isn't your first rodeo on the show. Correct. We did come on for Clusterbuck. Yes. But they now have their own spotlight since now they are, congratulations, guys, the winner of the PIA podcast of the year. Congratulations. Well deserved. What does PIA stand for, Bruce? You can say it. We're not on our podcast. Oh, I see. All right. The pain in the ass. Yeah. The pitiful words. Scott and I don't usually swear, so it's not like uncommon for us to not swear. So, yeah. I mean, we'll say ass and piss every once in a while, which I grew up and I never knew that piss was a swear word. And so when you say it in the middle of church, everyone kind of looks at you sideways. Hey, one, I'm kind of wondering in what context you would use piss in church. And two, piss is not a swear word. Plus, you guys are Utah, right? So, I mean, your multiple wives probably don't want to hear the swearing. It's true. You have to keep them separated. But they did win the PIA Awards. Congratulations, guys. But the day before, we beat them. We got our first award wrong. Yes, that's true. And we didn't even have to pay for it. Yeah. We didn't have to pay for it. Reach Arounds. We have a free from the Final Round Pinball Podcast. We won Reach Arounds. Yes. Congrats on the Reach Around. Was it awesome? Have you gotten your Reach Around yet? I'm waiting for Mr. Sharp to deliver it himself since it is the second for me. Oh, Jesus. Okay, since this is the second, is that Josh? I got the Josh Award. I got the Josh Reach Around for being the second best person on a podcast. And Ron got it for the best voice, which we then pissed off somebody. Oh, Mark Silk. He pissed off Mark Silk. He left the show in the middle of it. Yeah, you get like an actual trophy or something. It's like a hand holding two balls. It looks fantastic. I can't wait. It's going right next to my pinball trophy. It's going right in my bathroom, right above my toilet. Just awkward. Is this gone? Do they glow if you turn them on? Ooh, that'd be nice. I like that. Glow balls? Like Viper and Ike driving? Ooh, yeah. Well, congratulations on you guys. That was earned by your fellow peers. Yes. And, you know, congratulations to you 40 people, plus I guess a couple of them voted on it. So you impressed a lot of people this year. Yeah, you know what? And I was completely surprised, really. This year has been such a weird year in pinball since none of us have really done anything. And so, you know, Josh and I just talked about what else we could possibly do, and we just really enjoyed kind of looking at the topics that aren't talked about as much, especially in history. So that was the first thing I did. I talked and was like, I know about the shot, but I don't know anything that leads up to it because they always talk about it, but they never talk about the background. Like, I had no idea that Roger wasn't even working for a pinball company at the time, and he just brought him in. I just thought that was weird. But no, congratulations, guys. You beat some good competition. I'm glad we won this year because, man, that final round episode of Reach Rounds, that was so well produced. Yeah. And then super awesome Pillball Show's Christmas episode. I mean, the quality of podcasts is just going through the roof. And I feel guilty almost. We're right there with you. I'm still kind of slightly confused that we won. But I'm like, I'm very, it was awesome that we did. It's like on Apple when the Flappy Bird thing, the guy made like a billion dollars because there were about three options out there to buy. And so everyone bought that. But if you look at it now, it's garbage. You know, I'm on the Pinball Industry Awards site right now, and I'm looking at the judges, which I was a judge, and they spelled my name wrong. Oh, congratulations. Aren't you part of TPN? How the fuck did they spell my name wrong? Are you Brad? Two L's, two T's. Two L's, two T's, always. L2-T2. Just think of me as a droid. I'm L2-D2. Come on. Oh, that's annoying. Is it a cool nickname, though? L2-T2 is a cool nickname. I like that. The thing about the Pinball Industry Awards, Bruce, I believe the 40 was for the Game Awards. Correct. Oh, really? Yeah, you got to get this stuff straight because then people get upset. Oh, that's right. We'll hear about it all, yeah. The other part where we give ourselves awards, that was a smaller thing. Yeah, because Scott and I were actually part of the 40, but we weren't included on the podcast. That's right. There was a separate 12 that did just the excellence awards, which was podcasting, YouTube, streaming, stuff like that. See, in my opinion, the Pinball Industry Awards, the Machine, the Game Awards were great. I love that. like the ones at 40, and the pinball machine Hall of Fame thing that everyone could vote on. I thought that was a great idea. The other ones, you're just going to get yourself in trouble. You're just going to get, you know, you're just giving yourself awards. You couldn't win legit, man. You just, you can't win. Can't win. Yeah, you can't. You know. Let's be honest. Let's all be honest. This is just a big dick measuring contest for all of us, right? We want to see who's the biggest. So, I don't even. We've said every year, like, we really don't care. Oh, my. I'm used to my small penis. That's all that matters. Oh. Wow, he's admitting it on the podcast. That would be incredible. And, by the way, now we have just titled the show today. Small penis award? Small penis award. Oh, my goodness. Okay. Who did win the 70s? The 70s was for Solid State with Meteor. Meteor. Yes. Congratulations to you guys. I attribute that all to you. I was surprised it wasn't Stars, but Meteor will do right. I know. I think Stars is a way better game. It says EM, says Grand Prix. For the 70s, it says Meteor. And then for some inexplicable reason, we jump to the right and it says 80s, which is a bald Lux. 90s is Medieval Madness. 2000s, Lord of the Rings. And 2010s is Wizard of Oz. I got two out of five. I own three out of five. And I've owned all five games. So what does that tell you? I'm just good. Hmm. Okay, there's six games I know. Well, I don't count the... I do have EM. I had... Okay, all right. I had Grand Prix. Yeah, I have two of them. I have Medieval Madness and Wizard of Oz. Okay, that's one of the only ones I did not have is Wizard of Oz. Because the award that Loser Kid won was actually Excellence in Podcasting. Yes. Ooh! And I think they purposely awarded that. They gave it that name so it's not like... Best popular, yeah. It's not the most popular or whatever. It's just overall excellence in pinball streaming. You know, in reality, I actually think that's the best way, because when they always talk about in sports, when they're always talking about the most valuable player, people are like, well, what does valuable mean? Can you be valuable on a crappy team? And, you know, there's always that one holdout. Mike Schmidt, definitely. Yeah, just that one holdout where it's like, I'm not going to give a unanimous vote for something. I'm going to vote for someone else. What about Mike Schmidt? He was on a crappy team, really. He was on a world championship team. Yes, one year. The late 70s, they were pretty much good every year. Steve Carlton was pretty good, but 79. The Hall of Fame, multi-Sci-Ing Award winning Steve Carlton. In 79, he had an injury. And that's why they didn't make it in 79, when they could have. And Pete Rose was just, you know, he was up there. Pete Rose was Pete Rose. He was gambling. Yeah, that's all he was doing. He was gambling right now. They'll be dissing Mike Schmidt. That'll piss me off. Oh, wow. Typically, you have one of the greatest third basemen of all time, and they basically booed him his whole career to the end when they realized, you know, he's actually one of the best third basemen of all time. Maybe we shouldn't boo him, but we're Philly fans, so we suck. We suck. Oh, Philly's the worst. Oh, it was the worst. You literally have one of the best players ever, and you just boo him. They threw snowballs at Santa Claus. Yes. Come on. He got them a championship. Yes. Which is why I found it funny, since I lived in D.C. for a while, and I was there when Bryce Howard was there. Wait, Howard? Bryce Harper. Bryce Howard, yeah. He's related to the Three Stooges. He was the one you hadn't heard about. But when he left D.C. to go to Philly, I'm like, really? Like, wow, okay. It's a completely different fan base. I know you're rabid about sports up there, but, man, they can crucify you. Can I tell you my funny story about our sports right now in Utah? There is none. We have a sport. So I know you guys aren't into soccer, but we just got a new assistant coach, and the fans are really pissed off at him because I guess he was on the rival team for Colorado, and at one point he took one of the jerseys from our player and shoved it down to the front of his pants and threw it at our owner's face. And so he's not being very welcomed with open arms into our team right now. I like that guy. It should be pro wrestling. That's a pro wrestling network. Can I just say how low on the totem pole we're going with SportsFan? We're like the backup assistant coach on our major league soccer team. Like everybody just turned off right now. Oh, whatever. Whatever. Oh, come on. That's quality stuff right there when your assistant coach becomes the guy that, you know, rubbed his junk all over your jersey and threw it at your owner's face. Excellent. It's always classy. So we can go over the words. We have excellence in pinball streaming was won by Carl D'Angelo via pinball. Woo-hoo. Hey. We just had him on. Fix, rig, fix, rig. Exactly, yes. Now you're going to be telling me you're getting a Moto Hardy on next, right? Or you could tell me he's going to – Carl's going to be sending me tons of free streaming gear. Ooh. Yes. Yes, the Pinball Hall of Fame, Machine Hall of Fame. Yeah, Grand Prix. Meteor, Lord of the Rings, Wizard of Oz, Eight Ball Deluxe, and Medieval Madness. Okay, do you disagree with any of those? You know, I'd like to disagree with Wizard of Oz, but just based on technology, I would have to say no. What was the 90s one again? Medieval Madness. No, I have to disagree. You disagree that that doesn't, you don't think that deserves to be in the Hall of Fame? No, it does not deserve compared to other 90s games. Okay, what would you put in? I hate to say it. I hate the fucking game. Adam's family? It has to be. Yeah. 21,000 sold. The most in modern... There's a lot of other... All right. Well, can we agree Medieval Madness should be in, but just not this early? Oh, I agree with that. So you don't think it's a first ballot hall of fame? You think it's more like maybe second or third year? Maybe the Veterans Committee? Something like that? No? But no, Adam's family should have been the first shot. I hate to say it. Wizard of Oz, 2010s, I mean, what do you have in the early, what do you have in the 2010s? Well, actually, I would argue that Bruce's argument for Wizard of Oz would actually work very well with the 90s, too, because Wizard of Oz, even though I own it, it's not my favorite game in the 2010s. No, it's not. It was a pivot point. Groundbreaker. It was a groundbreaker. It was a pivot point. Careful reflection. I have found two things I like about Wizard of Oz. Okay. The two upper playfields. They're actually pretty good, yeah. And I was thinking about this, and Simpsons Pinball Party, hate the game, but I like the upper play field. Yeah, it's fun. So I think Joe Balser should be hired as upper play field designer. He's the upper decker. He is the upper play field designer. But what game do you think should be in 2010 instead of Wizard of Oz? Okay, so best game in 2010? Yep. I would probably put Jurassic Park. Yeah, I bought Jurassic Park. I was just thinking about that. It's like 2019. Yeah, and it comes in right at the very end, but it is. If you look at the entire thing, it would either be that or it would be ACDC. Deadpool for me. Deadpool, yeah. I don't know how I didn't say that. I just ruined my gimmick. I don't know how you didn't either. I ruined my gimmick there. I'm sorry. That's the only game I want to buy is Deadpool. Yeah, you can't get premiums now. Nope. Are they done making them? Yes. Are they done or are they just way behind? No, I think they're kind of saying they're just going to make pros. Wow. Okay. I want to go back just two seconds. I want to disagree with Bruce on Medieval Madness. I do think it deserves the first one, and the reason being is I feel like layout-wise, it has been more influential on the direction of pinball from 2000 up to now than any other game. I know AFM is more. Right now, I am looking at, I have in my room, AFM and Lord of the Rings right next to each other. AFM and Lord of the Rings are the exact same shot. Yep, yep, they are. They are. AFM is more influential than Medieval Madness. What keeps Medieval Madness people going is the two gimmicks, the castle and the trolls. But I think also, I think the other thing, too, is a lot of people that play Medieval Madness for the very first time, if you got someone that had never played pinball before and you brought them into your collection and you had them play Adam's Family, Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness, because of the nice nature of Mutable Madness coupled with rewarding you visually and points-wise. I think people gravitate towards that, and that's what gets them addicted to pinball. I know that's what it was for me. I know that's what it is for other people. I just think that it's a very influential game to draw people in. It might not be the best of the 90s, but it definitely is the most influential in my opinion. All right, here's a question. If you had to pick any game to try to get someone into pinball, what would it be? I probably would pick Medieval Madness because of the simple rule set. You blow up the castle, you get the big fancy thing. They just, I don't know, I feel like it's very great to beginners. Nope, I already got mine. Go ahead, you guys can pick your games. I'm ready. Okay, so I have 11 games in my house, and everybody starts with Medieval Madness. It is the gateway. Okay. Ron? World Cup Soccer. Okay. I have World Cup Soccer. No, no way. No? Everyone knows soccer. It's got a goalie. Nope. Indiana Jones. Everyone knows the Indiana Jones movies. It's the best theme integration. You have all three movies shown perfectly with the voices and everything else. It is a great starter game for them. They got too many of them, man, as they win. Yeah, my friend has a great Indiana Jones, but I still feel it's always slightly clunky. But guess what? You're talking about starting them off and playing. What are they going to notice more? They're going to notice the sounds, the shots. They're going to notice all the clips. That's what they're looking for when they first play a game. I agree with the Medieval Madness with the ooh factor of the castle. Ooh. But most people who are playing their first game are not going to get trolled. Yeah. If Gary Stern was in charge, the trolls would have came up immediately. He would have been off deck. So that would be my first game to pick for people. But, you know, 70s, Meteor's a good game. It wasn't the best game from the 70s. 80s, 8-Ball Deluxe, I have to say that probably is the right one. Well, for early 80s. Yeah, well, I'm just saying for 80s overall, look at it that way. I don't have any issues with Meteor, really. I don't. I love stars, but, man, you can't take it from Meteor. I can't. I think you can. Well, other winners in the Pinball Industry Awards were, and I have to do this because of the way it's scrolling, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles won Best Art. Oh, I scrolled by. I'm going to have to do it differently. I can't figure out how to stop it from scrolling. So let's see. Rick and Morty, Best Sound Effects and Best Callouts. Guns N' Roses, Best Lighting Effects. Best Theme Integration. Best Innovation. Heist. Best Toys, i.e. The Crane. Hot Wheels. Ooh. Nothing. Ooh, nothing. Kelts, nothing. Nothing. No one's really got a chance to play that here. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, best art cabinet and back glass, and best art on the play field. Avengers, best play field layout and best rules. Stranger Things, best accessory, the UV kit, and the one that's not listed here, I believe Guns N' Roses won the game of the year. Yeah. It also got best lighting, best theme integration, best innovation, best music, and best animation. And the most expensive game for your basic one. Geez, no doubt. Holy cow. Well, okay, enough of the PIAs there. Let's go to price. So for all of you JJP fanboys who bitch about Stern and the bullshit they pulled, which it was. We mentioned it. $500. We're going to cancel your order and just raise the price. JJP, being kinder and gentler, allowed you to keep your price. But if you want to buy any of the Guns N' Roses models now, well, actually there's only one you can buy, you're going to be paying $1,000 more. So you raised it 11%. Yeah, that's a big jump. What the fuck for? Because he can't keep up with the demand. Exactly. So now you've just killed your demand. Well, that's probably part of the idea, unfortunately. I think it is. This is part, I mean, I learned this in like economy in some class I took. Basically, if the demand is high and supply is low, you raise the price. But the problem is people who were on the fence and were waiting for the income tax checks that were coming out in the next month or two. Well, you can't even send in your income taxes until I think the 15th. It's delayed this year. Is it? Okay. Okay, let's think about it. If you could put your, you know, now, and you get your check, say, by March 15th, ooh, what are we going to spend this on? Maybe, maybe, but now I've got to pay an extra $1,000 for the same game that I could have bought two months ago for a cheaper price. Okay, really, though? If you're paying close to $10,000 for a game, I think that the tipping point in that price range is not that much. It is. $9,000, $10,000, $11,000. I think that the people who are buying that are going to pay it. I would not. My limit was Rick and Morty. The interesting thing is the standard edition, which isn't available anymore, or else when it will be available again, is $77.50. Yeah. Went up $1,000 for nothing. I know Eric Menier said, you know, the standard edition, you know, I want to have something out there for the operator. I don't know what operator is going to spend that much. Not many. I mean, there are some. I mean, there are operators that put LEs on location. But, I mean, I think most would not be spending 70. That's more than a Stern premium. Yes. I mean, even if you could argue, the Guns N' Roses standard is still better than a Stern premium. It's like, okay. But it's just, I think they're pricing themselves out of the game. Maybe they do want to cut off production so they can get the next game ready. Next game. I'm sorry. Maybe. Maybe, but guess what? Ride it as long as you can. Yes. Ride that. Ride that pony. Keep whipping. Go, go, go. Until there's nobody wanting this game. Then you say, okay, the demand's died off. We still have maybe a couple hundred parts. Maybe we'll raise it just because it'll align with the other games. Ah, the Deep Root Method. Yes. Which we'll get into. Yes, exactly. But the thing is this. They haven't been able to push out their games as fast as they could since October. Sure. They have the new facility. Yeah. It's big. We've seen it. But they can't seem to keep up with the demand at all. And, you know, for the past few months now, or the past month now, they've been making CEs. So these people for the LEs have been waiting longer and longer. Now, how many more months before we even get to the backlog, before we get to the new and price increase people? If they did choose to buy one. Why do you think it's taking so long, Bruce, Mr. Manufacturer? I think there is a glutton of problems with COVID supply and demand. The wood is a little issue. It's not an oh-my-God issue because if it was, every company would be raising it right now. My question, though, is I really think that I work in construction, and wood has went up to 130% since the beginning of 2019 and still has doubled almost in the last year. So this might not – the only reason you probably haven't seen a price increase from anyone else is Spooky's just wrapping up Rick and Morty. We might see a price increase with their next game. So you're saying there's $1,000 of wood in that game? I'm sorry. That's where it does not jive. Well, but like Carl DeAngelis on your last episode, though, Stern's using a 7-grain wood versus J.J. Pease using a 12-grain or something like that. And so they're using higher quality wood. Is it $1,000 worth? I mean, it's not even that. It's a $500 difference. Because look at, Stern's raised their prices to $300 in the last two years, except for Batman and Elvira, which has been $500. So you're looking at a $500 to $700 difference. I don't know. I would rather pay if it was me and it was a $500 difference, and I'm going to get a better quality product that I know is not going to chip and break and fall apart. So be it. I mean, I'm thinking they still need to get people up to speed in their new facility. This is their first game at the new factory. You think at Stern, I've been to the Stern factory many times. They have employees there that have been there 20 years. They know exactly what they're doing. Like, they have more qualified people doing this than anyone else. True. I think that's one of the reasons that they're so far behind with this. And as far as pricing, this has always been their deal, their whole deal. You've got to remember, when they came out with Wizard of Oz, how much was it, Bruce? $6,500. How much was the Stern at that time? $42. Yeah, which you can get it for $104. Yeah. But I'm saying, what's the price? So even then, their whole thing, Jersey Jack's whole thing was, we're not going to cut corners. We're going to have the highest quality, most future-class games. It's been going into what they've been saying since Wonka. Mm-hmm. That we want to make a game that's cheaper. We want to make a game that's going out in the location. Well, that's not Jersey Jack who said that. Well, it's a new company. Right. It's not his company anymore, though. It's a new company. But, hey, it's a new company. Jersey Jack Pinball is still the company face since Wonka. Wonka, they've already done it. They said they would never take stuff out of a game. They've done that. Yeah. Like, I was thinking about a Guns N' Roses. Now my interest has waned off, and I'm going now. You hate their game. That's why you said you hate their music. I hate their music, but I like the gameplay. I've been playing a lot of the other one of an LE lately, and I like the gameplay. I like the gameplay a lot. But I'm going to now go for a Deadpool. I'll go for a Deadpool and something else and still have money in my pocket. Yeah. I guess the other question could be, though, because we've been talking about supply and demand. You know, if you have more demand and not enough supply, you raise the price, yada, yada. Do you think this is the very first bona fide hit that JJP's put out, and so they've always wanted to be at a higher price, but because of titles like Dialed In, I don't know, Wonka did good, but the demand has never been, you don't think it, well, my point being is that they've never sold out on any of these games. The thing is this. They sold out. They knew they sold out the first day. Why didn't you replace the price after a month or two? Why wait five months? They didn't realize they were going to be this far behind. Because still, now for the next boomer machine, say, after the Toy Story, I'm thinking the price is going to be that same pricing. Do I want to pay $10,500 for an LE of Toy Story? God, no. They really should have waited until the next release. because when you, in Stern, it typically is like a march. It's $100 or $200 every time. And so it doesn't feel like a money grab. But this feels like a, hey, we want to quench the fire a little bit. We want to take a little extra money because we are pushing up against that $5,000 or 5,000-unit limit that we set, which, by the way, they should never have set. Just like you said, it's a hit. It's an evergreen title. Go ahead and manufacture that thing until the wheels come off. Like Wizard of Oz. Yeah. Like Hobbit. Let's do a Black Arrow edition. Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say. They'll just have different editions of the LE. Well, we sold out of this LE. This is going to be Guns N' Roses for the Red Roses edition or something. This is the Lies edition since that's the only one that's not of the albums. Yeah. Yeah, it's just I don't understand it. Oh, I understand it. More money. Well, the problem is if you turn it off, there's a finite people who are going to buy your product. And guess what? You have to hit. This might be your only hit. Toy Story might be a dog like Wonka was. Oh, ouch. Shots fired. It is shots fired. But guess what? Don't kill the cash cow. Yeah. I admit, Wonka is no doubt it. No. I played Wonka, and I can never get into it. Oh, God. It's not terrible. No, it's just... There are better alternatives. There's a lot better. I'd rather play dialed in than Wonka. Whoa! Did you actually say you'd actually play dialed in? That's amazing. Yeah, that verse right there. Yeah. I ignored a game at Ron's house. I don't know. I don't think it's going to hurt. I never even got to play it. I'd break it. Oh, yeah, you do. I don't think it's going to hurt their sales. I mean, at this point, they make pinballs for people with money. Yeah. And that's what it is. If you don't have the money, you can't play the game. That's just the way it is. Well, and personally, like I said, I spent my money on some more else stuff. They have their standard editions, which cost more than premiums, and no one's buying them. So they just, like, screw it. We're not even going to make those. LEs all the way. Wait, do you really think that? Because it seemed like there was still demand for the standards, though. There was, but they got enough. Yeah, I... Did they go to the two-level system now and ignore the third system in the third game again? Maybe. That's what I'd be doing. It would cut your overhead a little bit. It would make a cheaper assembly process. Don't compete with three levels. You're not going to sell the third level. The standard is the true LE. It really is. Yeah. Which is silly to me. It's funny because it's like you sell the collector's edition, you know you got 500. They're probably close to tapping out on limited editions. No, I don't think they're going to get the 5,000 yet. No way. I don't know. You think so? No. I bet they're putting up. Okay, hold on. Let's go by this. So far, they've only been able to get, I think, 20 to 25. I think somebody, come on, by numbers of shipping, 20 to 25 max per day. So you think maybe 20 they've had out. In the three or four months we've been going, that's, what, 1,500. You're going to tell me they have 3,500 back orders? It's a possibility. No way. We were totally nuts on with our other number with Deep Rudy over there. We all said 200. We were right around the number. No way did they have 3,500. Because if they did have 3,500 back orders, who would be the first one saying, yay? They would. Yeah. They'd be shooting. We still got 30. Just like, you know, they'd be competing. Yeah, they'd be competing against Stern. Oh, you got seven games, but you only got 5,000? We got one game at 3,500. I don't know. They've never announced numbers before. Why would they start announcing them now? It's Stern. I can say it's the biggest hit it was a thick swing it really was I got 5,000 back quarters woohoo if I was Jersey Jack I'd be saying hey that's 7 games I got 1 game and if I had 3,500 I'd be saying that and looking looking better I mean yeah as it stands they've made like I said 6 games in 8 years I think I think they have 3,000 s old total right now the Bruce has spoken. I know. The 500 CEs, and I think they sold 2,500 of the LEs. You've got to listen to Bruce. He's been in this long enough that we can take what he says. I don't know, you freaking bastards. But are you including before they announced, too? Because they did build LEs before they started actually showing the product. I think they sold 3,000. Okay. The 3,200, probably. That's my thought. Okay. And I think they've built probably 1,600. I think they still have half the build. So in my mind, that's why I think they made the price increase. So the factory will be busy for four more months. And then hopefully in June or July, Toy Story will come out, and it will just take up the line from there They don want to keep on making games like Wizard of Oz anymore To them you burn the parts off and you done Wonka done Pirates, done. They don't want to be the game maker that keeps on making games. They want to be the guy that goes in the next game. Except for when they come out with, you know, Wizard of Oz Gold Edition. Yes, exactly. Wizard of Oz is like the exception. He must have had one hell of a licensing deal with them, like for 10 years or something, and he's just going to use us. Yeah. Still blows me away that they refuse to re-release Pirates, even though it's super expensive on the second-hand market. It is ridiculous. If they were smart, that would be their way of increasing price. Hey, we have 500 SLEs or 250 SLEs, $15,000. You know how many people would buy that? It'd be sold out in a day. Nope, let's not do that. That's too easy. Yeah. It is. Well, it reminds me of, you know what, if you're Guns N' Roses, we don't want to sell Appetite for Destruction anymore. That is in the past. We want to push Chinese democracy or whatever crap fest they're actually doing next. Honestly, watching Carl D'Angelo play that, when they're picking some of these, I'm like, what are these songs, some of them? They're not that good. Well, okay, Guns N' Roses, it sums up in this. They started with a supernova in Appetite for Destruction, and everything else is average at best. That's it. And their singer's crazy. Oh, my gosh. I just saw a documentary on Axl. Axl is a complete nut job. Hey, Grandma from Goonies is not a nut job. Oh, jeez. There you go there. Grandma from Goonies. Well, it's weird because when they play anything from Chinese Democracy, that's stuff that Slash wasn't even involved in. Yeah. So, I mean, he's playing it live, but the track you're hearing isn't even him. Mm-hmm. I know. It's just, I don't know why they did this. It's just a head scratcher. Take the money and run. Make the increase on the next game. That's all. Okay. Well, speaking of increases, let's go to Deep Root. Oh, my gosh. Here we go. Hold on, hold on. No, no, I'm worried what Bruce is going to say here. Ron, come on. Let me start the chainsaw. Come on, Scott. Go get him. Because Bruce is messaging me, like, deeper discussion. No, no, not this again. But they caused it themselves. All right, all right. It's the gift that keeps giving. It is. Thank you. Seriously, it is a clown show. I do not understand. They pretend like they're this huge company with every single time. they come up and then they always have to walk it back, walk it back. Hey, we got this great thing. Come buy our product. Oh, hey, you know, guess what? All these people who gave us verbal commitments, they came out really big and then they kind of walked them back. So we're blaming them. Yeah. Like, are you kidding me? No, you're a company. Your job is to make sure you have product out there. It is not your distrib, it's not your, your suppliers. It is not anything else. It is your job to make sure the suppliers get you product. It is your job to make sure you know how the testing process is. It is your job to make sure when you take money or orders from people that you are going to get them games. Don't hide behind someone else doing crappy jobs when all you're doing is a clown show. It is such a ridiculous company at this point. I'm just waiting for them to say, you know what, we decided that pinball was actually hard, and so we're hanging up our shingle. I have a co-worker who, if you mention J.J. Abrams, he'll just go off. He hates J.J. Abrams. Why? I don't know why. Just don't mention Deep Root around Scott, because it just goes. Well, basically, there was a notice that was sent to the, what, 130 people who bought games. There were supposedly 70 arcade editions of Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland and 60 extra editions that were sold. and they got this notice, which I guess the first paragraph I will read is Robert Mueller. I'm not going to read the whole thing. Oh, come on. No, you cannot. No, no, just the first paragraph. Wait, read his Gene Simmons. No, no, no. Yeah, that would be a good – No, no, come on. This is from Robert Mueller himself, and he is always Hulk Hogan. Dear Raza customer brother, first, thank you for your business and decision to buy into an amazing machine. We spent years designing to bring out the best of Papa Deuce's original theme and layout, dude. As I am writing this email, I am aware that the weight of accountability and fulfilling orders of quality machines is as soon as possible, brother. I am providing the below update as a matter of goodwill and transparency, knowing that it will be unfortunately posted online or misrepresented by podcasts. There are no hokumaniacs in podcasts, brother. Twisted in ways where truth, civility, and rationality go to die, brother. There's no hokumaniacs in podcasting. Yeah, let's explain to podcasters instead of the actual fault of his own. But we'll get into that. Let's keep on going, Hulk. No, that'll hurt my voice. We are Gene Simmons. We are the received orders. No, that doesn't work. That's all right. Does this work for you? You know, I won an award. I'm a Reach Around Award winner. Yes, you are. We received orders made of goodwill for 70 arcade editions of Raza and 60 extra editions of Raza. We will round up to 160 total Raza games, with most of the remaining games available for sale at $8,000. Starting price for the arcade edition is $13,000 flat fee for the extra edition. More details on the timing of that later. After all, Razzle Games have sold. We will publish, for historical purposes, IPDB, the exact game counts. Okay, pause. Stop, Stewie. First, 130 games. So we're going to make another 30. We can't even tell you what we're going to make, because it's going to be 30 of either arcade or the nicer model. And we bump up the price $1,500 and $3,000? Yeah, I had to look up the original pricing. That was hard to find that. The original arcade extra edition was $58.99. Okay, so we're now $2,000. And the extra edition was $94.99. Now, remember, that's the base because you could do the thing where you add all kinds of stuff to it. Yeah. Holy crap. We're just complaining about JJP increasing the price by $1,000. Well, no, you said they should have just, anything they had left, they should release at a higher price at the end of the run. Well, that's what Debert's doing. Yeah, but wait a second. At the end of the run? At the end of the run, yeah, well. This is the end of the run. Exactly. This is the end of the run. You haven't sold one piece except for your $130, which you should be ashamed about for the past three years of talking about this game. I'm sorry, you should have cut it off at 1.30. Take in the loss and been done. Maybe you have parts for the other 20 in case you have rejects or you have damage for shipping or anything else. Done. Your experiment's not working. They said we were not able to get our machines scheduled into the labs for UL testing or international CE testing until two weeks ago. Okay, pause. Right then and there. Robert, as a person who's dealt with UL testing and has dealt with UL, your games are not going to be done in five weeks, I hear stating. No way in hell, especially since it's a new build. Well, we haven't even got to that part. I understand that most tests have been passed. I understand it could take up to five weeks to complete testing and receive reports and certification. We will not be able to release or ship any games until those are complete. Of course, that is true, unless you do not want the UL rating, which, of course, you do want it. Spooky doesn't have it, I don't believe. They do not. And I have problems with that also because there's a couple issues I can show you. Their electricity job and wiring and grounding. But we will not go into that until later on. But UL testing is not five weeks. UL testing for one of our machines took 18 weeks. Because the problem is, once they fail you for one thing, you have to take either that game back and then modify it and bring it back. You can't do it on site. Or you bring another game, and you bring it there, and then you can swap out with the new adjustments. And it all has to be re-documented. Okay. The next section is parts. With most vendors going dark for the last two weeks of December and first week of January, we have orders in for about 70% of the bill of materials. What does that mean? Does that mean they still got to get the other 30 or they already had 30? No, it sounds like they still have to work on the other 30. What do you guys think? It sounds like there are some vital parts. They probably have 70% of every game and the 30%. So whatever weird toy or weird gimmick or whatever they're putting in, they have zero of those. And so they can't build 70% of their games. They can build zero games. Well, there are three main hiccups. Number one, long lead times in general and vendors promising one thing before they get their money and then quickly changing their tune after getting their money is the most prevalent reason for the delayed orders in parts. There have been some great vendors who are exceeding expectations, and we sincerely appreciate their efforts. So let's just blame everyone else. Well, it reminds me, like, I think I've told this story before. I work for a credit union, and we have to print statements every month, whether electronically or actual, you know, print statements for people who still want to receive those. And we do that. A company does that for us. We send them a file, and they do it. and they have fucked up in the past, like spending the wrong month. They did that once. That would be like my company just blaming the statement vendor. Yep. Like, your statements are screwed up because our statement vendor screwed up. What do you think our members would say? Oh, no, great. Just, you know, deflecting the blame. Okay. Yeah. Good job. You can't do that. No. No, you say, I'm sorry. This is the problem. We're trying to rectify the problem. We're having a problem. We're doing our best to rectify it. You don't blame other people. No. Never. Wait a second. I've been in business, manufacturing, customer service, and service. You never do that. And the first gain you're making, the first statement after getting this money is, it's not my fault. You know, some of our part vendors are definitely not Hulkamaniacs, dude. From how far are we designed as more ergonomically usable? So normal. So in other words, not with a sharp edge. Yeah. It's complex with two stamps and several welded reinforcements. The complexity of the design has caused a large number of vendors to pass on it with the cost and time frame we needed it. We finally have two vendors that are willing to do small runs. The problem is getting them into their already full production schedule to arrive ASAP. Okay, wait. I'm going to ask right here, okay? What is a small run? They have 160 games. It's like they can't get one manufacturer to run 160 parts. Well, the problem is that they already have a quote originally for the lockdown bar. Maybe say $200. Let's just say this. And now every place they're going to is probably going $400 to $500. And they're going, whoa, we can't do this until we find somebody as cheap as the other one was. Right. And she can't. No, no. But in small runs, what? In 10s? In 20s? Are you kidding me? Yeah. This is not how you're going to save money. You save money by volume, not by dinking these things. It's just getting a big volume, not farming these out into 10 lockdown bars. Yep. They should be buying 1,000. Yes. If they're not making machines, they should be going for 1,000 right off the bat. The lighted side panel prototypes we had for our two extra editions had some wear, tear, and technical issues with frayed wires and sizing. It has taken the last 60-plus days working with several vendors to redesign them to be more durable and allow spacing for leg protectors or cup holders, etc. And therefore, we're buying Led Zeppelin and seeing how Stern did it. Yes. Production. We have the first lines ready to go and will proceed in prepping what we can while waiting on parts and certification. Since there are tiered production stations, the ones that can produce deliverables will start in the next few weeks. I made the decision not to show production lines or illusionary and deceptive pictures of parts or lines or cabinets for many obvious reasons. The only thing that matters is you getting your brand new Raza on your doorstep in working condition as soon as possible. That is a picture that will actually mean something. We fully look forward to seeing your delivery pics and unboxing videos posted or tagged to one or more of our social media pages. Okay. Okay, so even now, even now he's taking shots at like, because JJP did this for years. They would take pictures. It was kind of the same picture. It was like, hey, we have all these machines ready to sell, and it didn't turn out to be exactly what was going on. So even in his apology, he can't stop by taking shots at other manufacturers, and the manufacturer he's taking a shot at has the game of the year right now. The pictures of the triple disc? Yeah. It ended up not working, and they had to take it out. I actually feel it's more highway. He's doing it more. He was bashing it. Oh, yeah, highway used to do that a lot. They had so many pictures. They had more pictures than they had games of their production facility. That's true. So the problem I have with this is also you're not going to build a machine if you do not have a UL tested. Because if UL says these aren't good, you have to change this, this, and this, you've just thrown away all this money for possible assemblies. I just don't understand the logic behind what he's saying. Additional streams. We have received lots of requests for additional video coverage or streaming because people want to see Steve Bowne play it because we all love Steve Bowne. We all love Steve Bowne. We finally got all the cameras for our internal rig, but, and being completely honest, I have requested that they be delayed for now. Our creative team is working hard on other projects and deadlines. I feel that since orders are over, adding additional content in the short term is moot. If he means, like, streaming more Raza when no one's going to buy more Raza, I guess that makes sense. They're running away. Well, actually, yeah, what additional, what was it again, 30? 30? Yeah. If I can't see the game, why would I want to buy the extra? What the fuck? Holy shit. Expectations. disappointing news may still have a bright side. We expect to receive parts through the first week of March at this point, with the first Razzas leaving mid-March. No way. Okay, over-under on that. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No way in hell. He did not bring this. The certifications for ULCE should be done around this time. While that may sound disappointing to wait another couple of weeks for games, there is a bright side. Since the run of Raza machines is limited, we should be done much quicker than our anticipated and originally announced time of three and a half to four months. I love how he makes it a positive because he didn't sell so many of the game. Oh, we only sold 130, so they should be done faster, so we will get them the next time. I'm reading it, that literally is what that says. That's exactly what it says. Word in, since the run of Raza is limited, but basically since we only sold this many, we'll be done quicker than we thought. And we still won't be prepared for the game two. That's what it really tells me. The game two better be the who or Goonies. Guess what? You already have 130 guaranteed sales. Wouldn't you, A, really be ready to, okay, if you're going by his timeline of mid-March, be ready to pop it out the day that manufacturing stops and you be able to switch that switch and go to the next game? Yeah. You're not. He's not even prepared for that. He doesn't even know the process. This shows exactly that he has no clue what he's doing. Exactly. And why do you not have a PR person who knows how to actually communicate things without revealing how little you actually know about the industry that you're trying to compete in? We know more about the industry. The four of us, we could be as PR people. I'm not going to proclaim I know enough about the industry. Well, you know enough about selling something or trying to make a customer feel better about what they're doing. Well, you know, brother, I plan to update customers again by the end of February. Thank you again for your trust in business, dude. Thank you for your patience. We look forward to exceeding expectations, and we are grateful for you allowing us a chance to do so. If you have any questions, please contact us at contact at deeprootpinball.com or by visiting the website, Best Rob Mueller, brother. Let's go to the website right now. I feel like I can order. I want to see if I can order right now. You can't order. It's pulled. I looked at that this morning. So what do I do? I go there and shop. It's just pulled out. That's where I was looking for the pricing, and I couldn't find it. No longer for sale. So I can't buy anything of the F-30 until later on, maybe. But that's just like, oh, my God. He has had the orders closed since December 30th. These problems should have been taken care of by December 30th. And guess what? You have one or two hiccups that come up. But not even UL tested until January is my problem. You didn't even start UL testing. My thing is, though, is like he threw his distributors under the bus for this letter, too. He has no distributors. Oh, you mean his suppliers. The suppliers. Yeah, sorry. The suppliers. Yeah. What was up with that? He has no distributors. Yeah, he has no distributors. Cointaker was like, we have no interest. Yeah. What does that tell you? That scared me when I heard that. Pinball Brothers. Yeah. When you're ready to take money from the Pinball Brothers. It's like, we're at Cointaker. We're going to do Dutch and Pinball Brothers, but Deep Root, nope. Nope. What does that tell you? something's not right. That's what it tells me. Oh, yeah. He is just a disaster waiting. And unfortunately, how do you make games? You're not, well, you haven't made a game. You can't show us your warehouse. You can't show us your production line because it's still not ready. You can show us, guess what? I'd be more impressed if he showed us 160 cabinets. Wouldn't you? I would be impressed for him to show us anything. Yeah, well, think about it. If you were talking about wood a couple minutes ago, how much more expensive it is, wouldn't you have wanted to get that wood made sooner than later? You said, I love wood. But that's the problem. The whole thing is weird to me. Like, how many years have we been doing this with deep root? It's just so funky. It's just a joke that keeps happening. I can't get past the blaming vendors part. Oh, God. Have you ever seen, like Jersey Jack, they had issues with Mirco again. Yes. With the, you know, the Guns N' Roses playfields. Yep. Pooling, chipping. They didn't come out and say, like, you know, they might have said, we're working with, I think they said something like, we're working with our play field vendor to get this fixed or something like that. Yes. That's what you say. You don't say, like, our play field vendor sucks. It's their fault. Yes. And we are going to work with them to get this fixed. They should have told us sooner. Yeah. I know. That's the part I don't understand. You just can't do that. I don't know. Okay, over, under on them actually finishing this run. I think they'll finish it. They'll finish it. If he had to, he'd put a ton of money in just to finish it. His own money just to get it, yeah, just to say, like, we did this. Look, I did this. You mean like a big bank bar, like a Gene Kahneman? That's exactly what I'm thinking of. He put so much of his own money because he underestimated. But the thing is, it's just I don't understand his logic with all this playing game. What he should have did is we have our orders in. Here's what it should have been, his email. We have our orders in. Orders are processed. We are now, the supplies are coming in. Once supplies are coming in, we will contact you when you're getting your books. We're working with our vendors. We're awaiting you all certification. That's fine. Done. That's it. But then the comment right at the top, like, I'm sending this to you knowing that, to end up on the internet. Well, that's the thing, though, too. There's a fine line I feel like these pinball companies need to do. Because the stuff with Deep Root, when they're like, oh, we want to get this out so podcasters don't write our narrative for us, but yet you've got people like Stern who don't acknowledge podcasts pretty much at all. And so I feel like there's a fine balance of what they need to be saying. And I find it weird that in a hobby, a main company goes after the podcasters because of what we say about them. It's really funky to me. The whole thing just smells weird. Okay, but basically what you do is when your product can't speak for itself, then you have to go after people who are evaluating and critical. I love you, Scott. I love you. Okay, but seriously, basically, okay, if I'm wrong, prove it. Yes. Like, release a game, sell it, put it on location, and I will be loud wrong. I will say, yes, you are right. I am completely wrong. But so far, I have not seen anything that actually says this is a grown-up company. This sounds like a Ponzi scheme right now. I don't think any pinball companies could give a shit about what podcasters say. Exactly. Right. I mean, they should use the podcasters as tools, really. Who has the most listeners? Okay, we'll go on that show for an interview. Right. Who's the biggest tool that we know? Well, I mean, no one. No, like, yeah, Gary Stern doesn't bash podcasters. Jersey Jack doesn't care about podcasters. I don't understand. You know, all these other companies, I know. I don't understand. But he's following the highway crash and burn technique. He really is. Yeah. Out of all the people he could follow the game plan for, he is following the worst game plan. It is very highway with promising all the stuff and the way Andrew Highway did is very highway. Okay. So right now I am Googling how Robert Mueller can buy a hydrofoil company as the next iteration. So mean. So you're telling me third time's not the charm. I mean, obviously it didn't work with Zidware. It didn't work out with American. So now with Deep Root, it's just not... You're not telling me that this was supposed to be the end-all, be-all of all this stuff with J-Pop? The pop guy. I would have never hired him. That was the first problem. J-Pop will never make another game. This is the only game. That's it. That's assuming it'll ever get made. I really am doubtful on whether or not this thing will ever come to fruition. If I was Deep Root, what I would have done is this. You know you've had a game out on location for temporary at the coffee house. Find a location down there and put it on location. You already have it sold. You've already cut off all the sales, really. Put it on location and put the money where the mouth is. Let people play it. Okay. See who makes money. Okay, but didn't they also have – This was what turned me off is when they had all the time in the world. They had their handpicked six people come down. Oh, yeah. Outside people to look at the product and say, yeah, you're not ready. Oh, no, you're just jealous because you weren't one of the six picked. You're right. I was not. I was not invited, and that's fine. I would never expect to be invited. Oh, not you. Hell no. I don't make stuff. And neither do they. And so if they don't make stuff and come down to your business and say, yeah, you can't make this, where's the problem there? Well, not only that, they went and looked at everything, and then they had a gag order not to say anything. The only thing they could say is via This Week in Pinball, which, you know, PowerSense does good work over there. But it was really weird because I know PowerSense has done a bunch of stuff in the past for Deep Root. And so it felt like just the mouthpiece of Deep Root was speaking. The Phil PR that has done it in the past was speaking for the whole group, and they just weren't allowed to say anything, and it was really fishy at that point. It was awkward, yeah. It was very awkward. I was, ugh. The only reason anything came out at all is because someone took those pictures and posted them. Basically, yeah. Yeah. But literally, the people who they picked for those six, I trusted two out of six people. It's fine. I don't really know them personally, any of them. I know three or four of them, but I only chose two out of the six who were truly in pinball and know what they're talking about when it comes to parts, manufacturing, everything else. Yeah. Those are the people I would have wanted to come in. The people who have had, you know, maybe their job is partially this. Maybe their experience, no, they just picked six people. who most they were hoping, I think, for a pat on the back and saying, great job, it looks like it's going to be great. And these guys actually told them what they felt, and they went, oh. Did Keith Johnson just post another Twitter thing that just had laughing faces? I think he did. Yeah, he might want to watch what he puts on Twitter. What are you talking about? He's not done anything, you know, sketchy or weird. If I was his company, I'd have a little discussion with, Yeah, you need to calm that down a bit. He's always been that way. That's the thing. He's always been that way. But when you're working for a company and you're trying to sell games. I don't go into the hellhole that is Twitter. No, I'm not even saying that. I'm talking about, I'm talking RGP days. Oh, okay. That's how long he's been doing this. Oh, he's always been very vocal. It's just, I'd be like, hey, can you calm it down a bit? You know, I don't want to piss off any of our possible, you know, customers who may not buy something if they see something you posted. Yeah. That's another thing. There are employees out there who were very vocal on social media, and then they got hired by pinball companies. They're still very vocal on social media. I'm thinking like, eh. Yeah, maybe not. Maybe not. Okay, let's get off the G-Proof thing. Yeah, let's get off that pun line. We've had G-Proof. We've had JJP. Last episode, we're talking about bad Stern Playfields. Like, what poor pinball companies do we not bash? I got another batch of bad Playfields. Oh, okay. Go ahead. Merkle with their nine ball playfields. Remember we talked how they were releasing the nine ball and then the art wasn't up to snuff? Yeah, the art wasn't right. It wasn't actually right. So, okay. Well, they fixed it. Okay. They fixed it. So they released them. And out of the maybe six or ten playfields that have hit the U.S., six are warped. it's like what the fuck wow okay I'm becoming less and less of a fan of Miracle I'm not going to lie I'm not impressed with them the thing is instead of pinballs hard we should just say wood is hard yes wood is hard it's like the guy showing a picture of it like a couple guys and you can see it's twisted about a good quarter to half inch okay have they tried to repopulate an Orbiter 1, because maybe that would just be considered a feature. Yeah, maybe. But the guy was funny. He's like, yeah, I bought this thing, I told him about it, and they just went, yeah, it happens. Really? What do you mean it just happens? So what he's going to do is he's going to mount, he's going to go through the holes on the side, put a piece of wood, and leave the project for a year before he does his placement. Yeah, as long as it's not populated, you can get it on one. You can get it back straight, but wait a second. I'm paying $799. Yeah, that's about the same price of my nine ball. Yeah. I shouldn't have to do this. Another play field. We'll have real fun here. Reach arounds. Oh, yeah. What other reach arounds, Bruce? What does that even mean? That is a fun awards from the guys from the, what is the show? Final round. I always forget that because when I think of Marty, I think head-to-head. Sorry, it's just the way I am. But it was with Jeff Theolis and Marty, and they were taking money for awards. You could pay for your award. But luckily we didn't have to, Ron. Did you notice that? We didn't have to. But a lot of other people did, and you got this hand with two balls in it. I haven't got mine yet. I haven't got mine yet either. I'm waiting for it. And now tell us about the trophy. Yes, exactly. First time I see Mr. Sharp, I can't wait. Why is that, Bruce? What was your award? I got the Josh Sharper reach around. Which is for what? The second best person on a podcast. So you actually won twice, Ron. Well, no. I won one for what? Best voice a cting. But you also won it for being really the best podcast out of our... Yeah, the best podcast. Oh, yeah, I'm the best on the podcast. Yes, we know that. Yeah. but I apologize to Mark Silk clearly you should have won but you know I totally agree with that I stood up for you at the committee but it was something about the whole shoot the center ramp thing and the fact it's actually the side ramp and it was just a major problem and I fought for you but they didn't want to hear it it's like nope it's a side ramp we can't give it to them and Kanye tried to take my award did you see that Kanye went yes did he say Beyonce Say it was the second best. Yes, he did. But it was a great time. A lot of people we knew got reach-arounds. It was funny as hell. Yes, it was. We heard the Top Rope. We heard Macho Man. Well, Top Rope Pinball is Robert Byers. Macho Man is another one. That's the Macho Pinball Podcast, which is like in semi-retirement. I know. It's a shame. I'm impressed with Ed Robertson doing the music for that. The music was incredible. That was a home I got her. My wife was like, what the hell is this? That was really cool. Yeah, I was astounded at the produced quality on this whole thing. It was, for something that was supposed to be a joke, it was very professionally done. It was way overproduced for what the product was. Yeah, and that actually hurt it because people thought it was real. People actually did not, that's the problem. When you do something that well and present it like a real award ceremony, like, uh. So you people are just giving yourself awards. You can buy them. people were literally pissed. It's like, really? People did not get the joke in this one. No. Yeah. I just don't understand. But guess what? You can't take a joke. Yeah. I mean, you have a Canadian and an Australian host that should tell you right there it's not legit. It's just not legit. Well really when it named the reach around like what would you actually have Yeah Well Ron I wanted to announce to everyone in the world Ron doesn even know about this we going to have our own award show Oh. Oh, God, we are? Yes, it's called The T-Bags. Jesus Christ. See a whole bunch. Yeah, and you know those rubber things you hang from the hitch of a truck? Oh, yeah, yeah, the truck. That's going to be the award. You're going to get that, and you're going to dunk it into your mouth anytime you want. So it's going to be the Slam Tilt Teabags. No, no. Yes. I've already, in production, I already got the website and everything all ready. Oh, God, no. All right. Nothing goes better with a reach around than a teabag. I always thought that, yes. Let's get to some news, although there's actually not, there's not that much news. This is from This Week in Pinball. Hi, Jeff. How are you doing? like to read our news off of the internet. They had a thing about Punny Factory. I have a question about Punny Factory. I don't understand it either. Do people make it? Are they Canadian? I don't know. I think so. I thought the video was, yeah. Because they have like idea, concept, and rules, and the whole thing is like a comedy. It's just like all these segments, and I'm like, this seems very Canadian to me. Yeah. So are you ready for Punny Factory? Who's going to make it first, Punny Factory or Deeper? I think Funny Factory may come out before him. Funny Factory. Yeah. I have respect for Funny Factory. Ah, new code. We have Thanos now in Avengers. Oh, yeah. We have an Avengers owner here. Yes, we do. Yeah. Two. That's right. We have both. One has a pro. One has a premium. I have an Ali. Oh, that's right. You have an Ali. I got the chopper. Relaxing. Okay. So, how's Thanos? You got there yet? You beat him? No. I'm still at 0.97 I think I've been a little busy It's enjoyable I've gotten to Thanos It's a fun mode There's actually two modes There's a Thanos attack So like Kind of like a halfway through wizard mode That one sucks Like it's fun If you beat it But if you lose at it Like someone steals Thanos steals one of your gems And it always seems to be the soul gem Which is like One of the most valuable gems out of them all Wouldn't he steal your soul? Isn't that what Thanos does? I don't know. It's weird, though, because he jumps through the screen like Spider-Man, almost, stealing the gem and then runs off. It's really weird. No, it's a good mode. It's really cool because if you nail it, it gives you super victory laps if you have all three gems. You can add $200 million onto your score easily in Thanos' attack mode as the halfway wizard mode. They should just kill the shot for Black Widow and it'd be done. yeah well it's weird because like you have to defend each one of your gems and depending where your gem is at you have to hit that shot yeah defending gems yeah I'm so confused yeah it's so over my head just come to my house we'll play some Avengers it makes sense when you're in front of the game it's hard to explain I don't know what else to put up with that you can go to dinosaur land while you're there yeah well I'm well dinosaur I'm psyched I'm waiting for my Jurassic Park because that That'll be my first true deeper game that I can actually try, that I'll own, that I might learn something. Star Wars was not it. Star Wars is actually not overly deep. It isn't. Did you get the Pro or the Premium? Pro. Okay. Premium, no. You can't backhand the Death Star. It's so clunky in that area. It really needed a little better design, in my opinion. Yeah. That's all. Yeah, I actually had a deposit down on the LE Star Wars, and as soon as I saw it, I backed up. Smart man. Wise decision, I would say. And I own the game, and I'm saying it's a wise decision. I wish they had put, like, magnets, I said this before, magnets in that area, like, no fear, to help the ball up the ramp. So you could, like, backhand the Death Star, and it would actually go up and not just reject. I love when I mention Star Wars, he gets really quiet. I do. We don't want to say how piece of shit it is with Ron here, you know. It is. Oh, fuck you. Okay. Actually, I would take the Home Pin version, though. Home Pin's good. Mark Silk, our former guest, he is a big fan of Home Model. Home Model is good. It's super simple. It shoots good. That would be a good beginner game for somebody because it's Star Wars. Everyone knows Star Wars, et cetera. And no multipliers. You're good. And was it Guns N' Roses Code Update? Yes, there was. So it's like mostly lighting effects for the Collector Edition. Yeah. Oh, my. Does it have lights under the game, too? Yeah. Yes. I thought on the back of the wall, too. I don't know. Yeah. That's weird. I remember that was a big thing when they started putting the lights under the game. I never really got that. Because I'm playing the game, I can't see the lights under the game. I think it's cool, like, if you have the games on. Yeah, I'm not saying it's cool, but just playing. A lot of this is, you know, I'm the only one in my game room most of the time. because, well, COVID. So I don't notice any of this super cool stuff. Maybe it's similar to, like, have you seen those new LED kits you can put on your TV so it extends the light onto the wall? Yeah. I have not. They're pretty sweet. The new home entertainment centers, that's where they're kind of going, and you can change the lighting in your living room to match your TV so it extends the color onto the wall so it's more immersive. Ooh, an extender. Ooh. Oh, my. Oh, no. Super awesome pinball show. They had Zofia Ryan and David the American Dream Fix of American Pinball, baby. And you notice Dave was very quiet. Not really, baby. He wanted to say, you know, it was just that one podcast where I was talking about, baby. Not all y'all, you know, baby. See, I knew it. This is the thing. Like, if you're going to call out someone, just call them out, please. Yeah. I knew it. Yeah. If you're going to do it, just do it. Like, if you're going to crap on someone, crap on them. Don't crap on everyone else. Did you two take it personally? I didn't because I've been in the hobby for seven years. There you go. I will say one thing, though. I found it very weird that just the approach that he did on everything, I didn't take it personally, but I thought it was really weird, too. You're getting free marketing from all these podcasters and whatnot, and we've had people approach us and say, hey, we bought Teenage Mutant Turtles because of you guys, or we bought this game or that game because you interviewed them, and we loved what we heard, and so we decided to look deeper into it, and that's what we went through. So you're crapping on your free marketing because you're attacking one guy? Like, it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand why he keeps – they hired someone who was going to be helping Sophia that she didn't even know about, and he announces it on the podcast. Yeah. I don't understand that. Don't be springing things on people when they're actually on the podcast. I don't understand that. But it was a cool interview. It was even cooler. I played some Dirty Harry afterwards, and her name's right on there. Mechanic Spy was her name. Well, here's the thing. If you're trying to grow a hobby, the last thing you want to do is have a badge to say, it's like fans. You're not a real fan because you've only been a fan for the last five years. I followed this team for 20 years when they stunk it up. It's like, no, if you want to build it, you need to welcome all the people into the room. You can't shut it off and say, well, you're not a real player because you haven't been in long enough. I mean, it doesn't make sense. But, baby, I was only talking about one person, baby. I just didn't want to say the name. That wouldn't be good if you made a dream to do that, baby. Okay, but wouldn't it be like saying, you know what? You're not a real manufacturer unless you've been in it for over five years. All right, baby, it was Ric Flair. I'll say his name now. The death of the Ric Flair, the one who did it. I agree with that, you know. I agree. You know, you've got to don't fight the hand that feeds you. And we do feed a lot of these companies good stuff until you fuck up. It's all us, baby. Don't fuck with us. No, we help. We help. Guess what? We can help or we can hurt you with comments. We all do. We're that powerful? Stern Electronics. Okay, yes. That's the whole reason. My image of Deep Root will always be forever painted by head-to-head. Like, the ball gag and the butt crack, that's just, it is what it is, you know? Right off the bat, the first words out of their mouth about the new company. You know what it means in Australia. Yeah, that was, wow. Wow. Okay. Next. There's just tons of positivity today. Okay, we got new art kits. That's plastic kits that never came with games. Okay. Yay. More titties from CTR? Maybe. Oh, Jesus. Oh, jeez. I forgot about those alternate. Yeah, it's the alternate art. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Those are horrible. Yes. Well, I have a funny thing. Okay. What's your funny thing? Carl D'Angelo by Pinball. Hi, Carl. What he's been doing the past couple weekends, he's been replaying some of his older streams. Yes. He had last year's InDisc. Then he had Florida, the Florida tournament. And I'm watching the Florida tournament, and Carl is announcing with some other guy. And I'm watching it for five minutes until I realize the other guy he's announcing with is me. Oh, congratulations, pretty bad. I literally like, wait a minute, I think that's me. Because I totally didn't remember announcing. It was like the semifinal. I totally didn't remember that at all. Wow. That's pretty bad. I remember doing classics, but I don't remember doing any semi-final. So who's going to make a game first, Deep Root or Chicago Gaming's next rebank? Chicago Gaming. You mean when, what is it, Cactus Canyon's coming out? Yeah, eventually, but who knows? Boy. It's because they're trying to break the price to us about how they're doing an increase for their company, you know? Yeah, and maybe they didn't get all the rights, and they didn't get UL attested, and it's all the supplier's fault. Well, the rights are quite easy. That one is an original theme. They got the original programmer to actually finish the code, so none of this would be an issue. Okay, but isn't it refreshing, actually, that they're not giving this line of bullshit out there that is stringing people along, and basically people know they're going to make something. They have a track record. They have three successful remakes that people just say it'll come out when it's ready. The only thing that bothers me is it's been so long between these remakes. And that's fair. And this is the longest gap. And that's fair. I would say that the product has always been consistently great, though. Yes, I agree, except for when you play them. Well, and here's the thing with CGC. I just really wish they take advantage of they have got a good opportunity here. I mean, think about it. They could hire just one designer, pump out one original game a year or every other year, and have the remake fill the extra gap. You're not spending a ton on designing. And their product quality is amazing. Why are they not taking advantage of this? I'm pretty sure J-Pop's going to be free here soon. Oh, God. Wow. That's just a curse right there. Okay. Hey, want to go to the ball bag? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's try to make it a little happier here. Sorry, guys. I apologize. I'll bring up the tone a little bit. We got Bruce on here, so that's awesome. Bring up your bag. Tea bag. It's the tea bag. Oh, no, no. The tea baggies. Hear a big thud on the table. This one's from the Pinball Princess. Hello, Princess. Dear Ron and Bruce, several episodes ago at this point, there were a few instances of Ron speaking backwards. Oh, yeah, I did do that. Yes, you did. Well, a mysterious recording blowing the backwards-speaking conspiracy wide open showed up in my audacity. I think it's supposed to be top secret, but it's up to you whether you want to share this with the world. To figure out how many people have to suffer through two minutes of poorly produced tinfoil hat crap is up to you. And I will be putting it at the end of the show. Okay. And it is weird hearing me backwards, backwards. Yes. You'll have to hear this. Yeah. Is Paul still dead? Oh, Paul's still dead. I am still quite behind on the podcast. Pre-cluster by three? Fail. And I am already threatening to take up nearly two minutes of everyone's time, so the letter ends here. Oh, my God. This is the shortest letter she's ever done. Also, if I keep writing, I will lose the nerve to send this ridiculous thing off. Your friend and co-conspirator or something, I guess. Player 31915. Hi, Seth. Thank you. Everyone's going to hear it, Seth, so don't worry. Next, Jeff S. Listening to Slam Tilt, I had an idea for a show called First Impressions. In it, there would be no Bruce and no Ron. I like it already. I want to hear Stu McVicker talking about competitive pinball, Stewie discussing Family Guy and Shrek Machines and strategy, Stevie Wonder and Lionel Richie talking pinball music and singing their hits, Dusty Rose and two other wrestlers talking pinball podcasts like Macho, Beavis and Butthead discussing sexy playfield art and playfield issues, invite fake guests Arnold Schwarzenegger Austin Powers Dr. Phil etc whatever you like bring it regular listener Jeff S thank you Jeff I like that thank you Jeff we'll have a lot more time we need a lot more time for that one that'll be a two weekend Davis and Butthead are they like you know my favorite my favorite game ever is like that one with all the butts I love Baywatch Baywatch rocks yeah look at all those chicks and thongs yeah thongs yeah okay Hey, oh, Robert Byers, he responded to our email list if you want a shout-out. Top Rope Pinball, check him out on Twitch. It's a search for Top Rope Pinball. I believe it's just switch.tv slash Top Rope Pinball. Watch exciting pinball action. As a player much better than either of us. Yes. A former Texas State champion, Robert Byers. We'll try to get to Wizard Mose of various games. and maybe drinking, maybe not. And he also does his wrestler intros. And he's got his new graphic when he plays he's in a ring. That's funny. I love his rear wiper he got. What does it say? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The wrestler. There's a wrestler on the ground. It's Hulk Hogan on the ground underneath the wiper. And it's Macho Man coming down and slamming him. And every time the wiper goes down to the right, it's body slamming him. Excellent. Yeah, that's great. So you will get the shout-out at the end of the show. Even though you said Top Rope Pond Ball, I think he misspelled pinball. His own show. Okay, but last night was the best because he actually, he was getting sloppy drunk and he was trying to announce people. And my favorite was he was trying to call out Raven David Ramanson. Yes. Yeah. Yes, that was funny. Next one is from Shannon. There's a lot of emails this week. From Shannon. Hi, Shannon. He says, hi. Hey, guys, I love hearing more from you both on other – oh, no. Don't conform to sponsors' cheesy stick or awards. Well, we have the cheesy stick now. Yeah, we do. I love how honest Bruce has been lately regarding your show. You'll love this show then. Others wish they had your following. Keep up the great work, Shannon. Thank you, Shannon. This show will never go to any network We will never be on any other network No, this is independent Also, we don't want to get any other networks in trouble Yeah, but we don't like sponsors We don't like free money We don't? No Damn it That's that other show you do, that's Silver Ball Chronicles Oh, Jesus They love money Be sure to watch, listen to Silver Ball Chronicles To be found on the Pinball Network And check out the Pinball Swag store where you can buy a cool T-shirt. And don't you have your new website? We do have our new website. Just look for silverballchronicles.com. Me and my co-host, David Dennis, our latest episode was on Dwight Sullivan. And no mistakes. No mistakes. So it gets the Bruce thumbs up. You finally got the Bruce thumbs up. How many episodes has it been? I still think we should have titled it Blinded by the Light, but we didn't. You just threw it out. That would be too easy. Well, he hasn't gotten to that point yet. It was the Williams years, so he hasn't started blinding people. It was the good years. It really was a really good episode, guys. Seriously, Silver Ball is good stuff. And when are you going to re-sign your contract and ask for more money? Because, obviously, you know, Dennis Creasel had said on a couple episodes back of the pinball show that the most listened to show besides pinball show is Silver Ball Chronicles. Yeah, maybe I should. I mean, he wanted Bruce originally. Yes. Yeah, Steven Dennis wanted Bruce for a skull host, but he had the bar and he wouldn't have been available, so he had to settle for me. Yeah, he had to settle. The best was not available. And that's why Bruce got the reach round for second best on a podcast. That's right. You got it. All right. They didn't get one out for the first best. The next email is from Siron. You might know him better as Sorin. Sorin. He says, hi, y'all. Great show as always. And as always, I have a comment to share. We were talking about WPC95 last week, or no, last episode. Yes, about that. How bad is this? Attack from Mars was my first WPC95 game, and how much stripped down it appeared compared to previous iteration. And Soren says, you're right. The WPC95 platform was a downgrade somewhat. You did not mention fewer output drivers on the driver board also, although that might be explained by space available after merging in the electronics board. But WPC95 also saw an upgrade. Oh, yes. I assume very few outside Williams people are aware of this and what benefits it provides. But when you know about it, you will start to notice the difference. Although subtle, I admit. A bit complicated to explain, so I will let it hang as a tease for now. I'll tell the story next time I'm on your show. How about that? And no, I do not refer to the common. He's not referring to the comport used on NBA Fast Spring, which was also an upgrade. Yes. I think I know what he's talking about. You think you do? Yeah, I do. Okay. We'll hold that. Yes, okay. Cliffhanger. Next one is going to be difficult. We have the pinball guessing game. We've been challenged by one of our listeners, Tom. Hi, Tom. He sent it to me. I did not look at it. I said send it to the web. Yeah, I didn't see it. Because he messaged us first. So all the emails are unopened, so we haven't seen these. We're on Skype, so I'm going to share my screen so everyone can see. And we can go Loser Kid versus Slam Tilt to see. Whoa! Yeah. Well, first we can just ask, like, do we think we know what this is? And then each say what we think it is, and then we'll reveal it. No, you can call in first. We'll say Slam Tilt. They'll say Loser Kid if they think they have it first. That's not fair because I'm literally bringing it up on my screen, so I will have the option. I can't do that. Okay. All right, let's see if I can share my screen here. Share screen. On that new PC that you got. Yes, I, yes. Yes. Ooh. Let me just share the entire monitor. Oh, my, there it is. Oh, put Pornhub away. No, no, no. That's my line. We're not going to get invited back if we keep stealing your lines, huh? No, you're always invited back. Oh, everyone's welcome. It's just more, we steal shit all the time. Yeah, God. Did you ever hear our episode where we stole our bit from every other show? Oh, yeah. That's true. Love that. Love it. Thank God for my NC. Let's see. Here's zoomed in pics. Oh, okay. Whitewater. The answer is in the bottom. Very good. Whitewater. And white text. So I'm guessing if I, like, highlight, I'll be able to see it. So I have to make sure I don't highlight. All right. Oh, I know what that game is. Yeah. One. The first one? Yeah. It's all the same game. We all know it, Will. Yeah. We all know it? Yeah. I think it's Attack from Mars. It is Attack from Mars. Okay, let's see. Yeah. Yep, yep. So I figured that out. Yep. Attack from Mars. Oh, so the three pitchers are all the same. All the same game. Okay, I was like, where's the top left? Like, everything else I recognize. That's the back glass. Oh, okay. That's the eat at Eddie's. I love everyone listening right now is like, what the crap are they even looking at? What are they looking at? Pull up on Black Slash. Wow, that's big. I know this one. No, I know this one, too. Oh, I think I know. We know it's a Williams because we can see the Williams logo. Yes. Terminator? Nope. Okay. He's guessed it's Terminator. What's Josh's guess? Space Station? Yes, it is. Nope. Space Shuttle. Oh, Space Shuttle. First is wrong. I get it right. Yep, Space Shuttle. I'm in the lead. Woo-hoo. Okay. I know it. I got it. I don't know this one. Shit. I'm gaining me back. I know what it is. All right. Let's see. I guess since I say I don't know, I'll have to guess. Shadow. Nope. You're wrong. Okay. Can I say it? I'm guessing Dungeons and Dragons. Nope. It's Hook. Hook, Hook, Hook. Oh. Crap, it is Hook. It is Hook. Typical, get me with the data, East. The last one. Gamma Tron. No. I know it, got it. Oh, got it, yeah. Easy, yep. Yeah. When both, multiple people owned the game, it's, yeah. Yeah. Spider-Man. Which version? this is the original okay yep nice is that the last one that's the last one I guess so just get into it and it's over I know we get into it so we need more people to give us three picture shots from a game or just one just one is fine one make sure though here's the go back and do that last one really quick actually no go into the hook one the hook hook make sure when you send these in though see look at the title the JPEG right there on the left side oh yeah Oh, what does it actually say? Oh, shit. I didn't see that. Touche. Don't put the name. Oh, jeez, Josh. Mystery game. But I knew it. All right. I knew it, too, but it made me chuckle, and I was like, I know this. Wait, why does it say hook right here? That's pretty funny. Busted. Okay. And then we also, when we were, we got so many emails about Slammy and Tilty. Oh, yes. We've had volunteers to actually send us stuff to be read as Slammy and Tilty. So bring it on in. If you want a fairytale email read on the air by Slammy and Tilty, send it on in. What did you guys think of Slammy and Tilty? Hilarious. Like, I don't know. It's good stuff. I felt like Billy Madison, you know, sitting there with all the kindergarten kids, and we were watching the puppet show, even though it wasn't for the kindergarten kids, you know. I hope the puppet pals approve. My first part of Billy Madison was, he comes back and he's like, never leave, never leave. The puppet pals did approve of it. More puppets and pinball, they said on their Facebook page. Oh, what else do I have here? What else do you have? I have not really repairs, but kind of just a little tech thing. I found it interesting. So I'm working on AFM. I got my lane guys from Cliffy. Thank you, Cliffy. What do you got for me? Yeah, so my Flipper Hop is a thing of the past, and holy shit, it plays better when you do that one little thing. It's just like you can actually hit combos and stuff now. But what I also got, I got something from Mantis Amusements, Bruce. Okay. What do you think I would have got for Manchester City? You've got a Clippy. You've got a Protector. But not a Clippy. A sinkhole Protector. No, it's not. It's not the Protector. More expensive. Is it the drawbridge Protector? Drawbridge? Yeah, when your drawbridge goes up and down, it chips on the way by there also. Yeah, Medieval Madness, they have a Protector kit for that. What particular thing gets just pounded to hell? Which may not be obvious. Are we talking about reach-arounds again? No. The pinball or? The targets. The scoop. Oh, you got a new scoop from Mantis? Yes. I wanted to try something because when I got the game, like whenever you hit it in the scoop, when it came out, it will come out ridiculously like a TNA-type scoop, and it would be totally airborne, like way in the air. And yours does the same thing. And I just had a theory. the thing gets pounded to shit, which I didn't realize how pounded to shit it was until I took it out. Stop pounding the shit up. Oh, my. Originally, the scoop, the part that curves, it comes up straight and then does the curve. But over time, it gets bent back further and further and further. So when it comes out, there's less and less curve to slow the ball down, so it'll start to come out stronger and stronger and higher and higher. Oh! Sorry. So after putting it in there, after putting the new scoop in there, it now comes out a lot slower. And it's weird. That sounds like a performance problem. I almost preferred it the old way, even though it's much better for my play field. It's so weird. It takes a lot of the power out. It's kind of like if you had a Spider-Man web slinger, but you bent the thing so it just went, like, at a right angle. So it would just come out just, like, ridiculously fast. It just came out into your hand. Right now. Oh, wow. A little mess. Oh, my God. What's next in the game? Let me just check that off. You know, the other thing is I'm still waiting for my – I'm waiting for multiple shipments, U.S. Postal Services. It's been painful. I have a Titan pinball order that was in Springfield on the 25th, and that was it. It's kind of disappeared off the face of the earth. I had another shipment from eBay that arrived on the 29th in Albany, and still there as far as I know. I got a gift for you, Ron. Not a reach around, I hope. No, not a reach around. Okay. What same games do we own together? Quicksilver? Not the same game that we own together, but what is that? Quicksilver? Yes. I got you some ball guides and all the metal in the machine when we put our new playfields in. Aw, why, thank you, Bruce. No problem. I bought one set for myself, and I said, boy, who else owns a shit silver like I do? Ron does. The most overrated fucking game in the world. According to Zach Manning, and straight down the middle, the most overrated game. Yes. What did you think of our idea, though? If we put a, like, we said a vibrator topper. I'm thinking more a dildo topper, a green one. Dildo topper. That would make more sense. That back, you know, like, like fishtails. I think Zachary would like it then because as a topper he would can it be like one of those talking fish toppers where it comes to you and then talks at you oh god shoot it shoot it aww have you guys ever seen Rodney Carrington live he's kind of a dirty comedian that's a country guy no I'm not but come on lay it on he's got these like 7 foot giant inflatable penises with eyes and arms that you can hug during his concert and stuff like that. You should put that up on top of Quicksilver. I have a better idea. I just thought of it. We make our new topper with the moving so it moves, but it can point at you almost like. You know how the fish only moves a little bit out? We can go 90 degrees, so it's actually bending the penis. But we have a split down the middle of the penis. You're going to say it, aren't you? Yes, I am. With white cream. And when you hit it, it's not. Can you just make it like Safecracker? Like, you get a token. It pops out, rolls down the glass to you. Well, it could roll down the glass, too. It could shoot all over you. And then you can get teabagged afterwa rds. I was having such a great game until I got some weird stuff in my eyes. I gotta wear safety goggles. Imagine that in an IPA final. What the hell just happened? Oh, jeez. Oh, it just got all over the camera. Carl's gonna be pissed. sorry I'm sorry I'm out of material at this point Bruce I have would you or would you not buy that yes yes the segment that the pinball show stole from us yes and he admits to it finally oh he did well no I didn't hear that admit we just got the what the fuck where you know he usually takes a pin side ad that's really stupid when pretty much we've been doing that with eBay since before I'm just saying just saying okay I'm bringing up eBay They missed our, you know, our game you like, game you hate, though. They did state that. Oh. They did state that they missed it. Okay. Scott, Josh, game you like, game you hate. We want to hate, too. We keep having guests that are just like, I don't really hate anything, like bullshit. Come on. No, there are games I hate. I need to figure out which one that I hate the most. I do not like Fist Bales. Oh, okay. I hate Adam's family. She hates Adam's family. I owned an Adam's family for about two months, and I hated it so much, I didn't even bring it inside. I sold it to Josh. Yeah, and then I had it for a whopping six months, and then I sold it. It's not my cup of tea either. It's a terrible game. Wow. Terrible game. There's so many of them. Just because you're the first doesn't mean you're the best. Quiet Riot was the first hairband to break it. Okay, okay. How about a game you like? That you don't own. Oh, that I don't own. Yeah, because that's amazing. He's like, Avengers! Turtles! Okay. No, that doesn't work. No. Shadow. Shadow's great. Black Knight Swords of Rage. Really? Yeah, my buddy has one. Power premium. He has an LE. He got the topper. And it is a fun game. I was just over there one night, and I played it for about four hours. I think they should put the topper code in every Stern game so you can just put that topper on any other games. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Just playing Turtles or something and he's insulting you. I don't care. You can just do generic insults. It'll work. Black Knight would actually go well with Elvira. With Elvira? Play better. Yes. It would have to be Elvira's voice, though. Play better. That's better. That's terrible. Oh, a fourth backdoor action. Actually, that is a good game. I just got to play Elvira's House of Horrors. That is a good game, too. That is a good mix of 90s with new era. I like it. It's okay. Oh, whoosh. That's fire. Don't let the backdoor work. I love the backdoor. Not on my pinball machine. Oh I was waiting for it Are you ready for game you like game you hate We just did that We already did that Sorry I repeating Now I going to go to would you or would you not buy that on eBay Oh, yes, please. And again, go to eBay, and you may even know you're probably driving in your car and have no way to do any of this. But you'll get the great reactions from everyone else. Yeah, but if you want to play along, go to eBay and just search for the following numbers. 1-33-652-326-076. Motor Dome. What's your price? No. Wow. This must be the greatest Motor Dome that has ever existed. Yeah, this guy, he gives me a lot of fun. $4,000. You know what? The best part is you can still see the lights reflecting off the glass. At least it's not firm. It says best offer, you know. It's a flaccid offer. Flaccid. Wow, this might be the record most penis references. Why is there a sticker on the side of the game still? I couldn't fucking tell you. It's $4,000. Look at the side rails. Is that rust? That is rust. Why is it missing the cards? Like, are we that cheap? We can't even put custom cards or anything in this thing? You can tell it was a re-import because of the one coin door slot. Yeah. Wow. Anti-re-import. Playfield looks nice. Playfield looks great because nobody ever played it. It's by Mylar, too. How can you tell what the glass is on? Good crimey. I know. God. You know how I love when people leave the glass out when they take pictures? No pictures? Any pictures of inside the game? Under the playfield? Anything? I mean, the pictures are not blurry. I'll give him that. So he's a decent camera. Yeah. Well, I'm looking at some of his other games. Oh, that's the best part. So, well, let's see what the description says. Maybe I'm just, this game has just been serviced and plays 100%. The play field has been thoroughly cleaned and waxed with normal wear from, wait a minute, and waxed with normal, it's a way that's, I'm going to read it just as it says. from use and age. So it's been waxed with wear. Yes. It's the only way to wax nowadays. It is. You do it the other way. So he used a buffer and wear it through. New rubbers installed and all light bulbs replaced with LEDs. Bruce loves it already. The cabin is in good original condition with marks, scratches, imperfections, and touch-ups. See pictures. And stickers. And rust. Oh, it's the Orange County pinball guy again. We've had this guy on before. Yeah. Oh, yes. The fact, though, he has these prices means he must sell these occasionally. He must. I don't know. There's some guys that have, like, ridiculous prices. I see they just sit on their stuff for years and never sell it. Depends where you are. $4,000. 100% positive feedback, though. He sold over 3,000 things. So the people who have gotten it have been happy. Yeah. His mom's bought 3,000 things. Yeah, exactly. So would you buy this? So at the same... No, God, no. No. That price is way out. So if you look at below where you have similar items for sale, ticket number 13360360616. Oh. Okay, now we're talking, yes. 23 are watching it. $4,000 for stars. Clearly. They should be the best stars ever. It should be. Let's look at it. All right. You're waiting for I get to the picture that you're looking at, obviously. Let me see. The backbox looks like any other backbox. A little rough. Cabinet. Cabinet is. It's scratched up a bit. Holy fuck. Is this inappropriate? It's like major wear in the center of the play field. This is one of the shittier looking stars I've seen. Oh, my gosh. Wow. We don't see stars typically, for whatever reason, don't wear that much. I don't know why. Maybe because it's so wide open. But holy shit. I think somebody ate on this thing. Someone took a sander to the thing. Do you guys ever just send a best offer of, like, what it should actually be? You're like, oh, I'll send you, like, $800. That's an $800 game. Is this the same guy? Yes. Yep. Oh, yes, it is. So would you rather – now I have a question now. Would you rather buy this or Motor Dome? This, because at least it's fun to play. Exactly. I love how when they take the picture, the targets are down, so you can't see if there's any issues with the targets. Although they do look like original targets. They look like it, yes. Actually, the rest of the play field looks pretty nice, except for that one area. That one area is just horrible. Okay. Okay, guys. Ready for another one. Mm-hmm. 224-203-291716. Oh, wow. Are you on crack with these? This almost looks familiar, like I've seen this guy's house before. Yes, this actually has been on before. Okay, okay. Oh. That's the best reaction when you hear it. Whoa, holy crap. A $12,000. So this is like a JJPCE, Valley 1977, Evil Knievel, restored with new playfield, and I guess kind of a topper. It has this helmet. Yes. Is it signed? Signed by Evil himself? Does it have his ashes in the game? No. Maybe it comes with a big thing of KY. I just thought, you know. Okay, actually, so this is a very nice, it's a nice game. It really is. Oh, the play field looks like glass. But still. $12,000. Wow. At least you took the glass off the game and got in the game to take pictures. You would have to be a super fan on this one. This looks like a HEP restored quality. Like, it looks really good. $4,000 Well let's look at the description Let's see We gotta hear everything Okay Bally 1977 Evil Knievel Pinball Machine Restored beautifully with new playfield Brand new playfield plastics And back glass Game is fully functional Rare in this condition This is a fully commercial arcade pinball machine Feel free to reach me for any questions If you don't see your dream game in my auctions, just let me know. Many more games nearing full restoration. Helmet scene in some pictures is not included. Oh. That just killed it. You shouldn't include the Count Helmet for that. Hold on. Did you notice this noticeable features? And he has original price new in 1977 was $1,500 for a dealer. Keep in mind, a new Mustang in 1977 was $4,000. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yay. Congratulations. He knows inflation. Well, yeah, what does that even mean? Why do you put that in there? I don't know. It's in Florida, so it might have COVID. It might have COVID. It doesn't include shipping. No. How would you not include shipping for $12,000? You should drive it yourself for $12,000. No, it should be delivered by Evel Knievel, dead in his casket. Delivered by his son. His son can deliver it to you. Robbie? Robbie Knievel. And he has to do an over-the-river tour, Jeff. And he has to have a semi and jump over something when he delivers the team. Okay, do you guys remember how absolutely lame the 70s were when Evel Knievel was a huge star? Oh, yeah. And that was the extent. We had Stretch Armstrong and Evel Knievel and early Dukes of Hazzard. He jumped over a lot of stuff. It was cool. Star Wars and Star Wars toys for the first time. Think about it. That was the first movie with them. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Ah, those were the good old days. Those were the days. Are you ready for the next one, guys? Sure. Yes. All the hits now. 1-1-4-6-6-5-5-9-6-3-8-8. I don't know how you're going to top that last one. Oh. I love the reaction. This is the best one. I thought it was the pinball machine, but it's not the pinball machine, is it? Yeah, it is. What did you guess? Oh, I thought it was just the topper. Oh, yeah. Because it says Stern Ironman Pinball Machine Topper Color DMD Gorgeous. That's literally the title. Okay, gotcha. See, that's why I was confused. I'm like, seven grand for a topper? That's the mini pricing. Okay, so I have actually owned an Iron Man, and I think I... I've owned one. Ron has one currently. Yeah, this, I'm not a huge fan of the LED. Oh, come on. Clowny is great. Yeah, that's way too much. Oh, does it have clown? Oh, do you look at the play field? Oh, hold on. Oh, what the fuck? It's like all blue and red. That looks terrible. Maybe it's just his camera. Maybe they didn't capture it. Oh, no. That's definitely the LEDs. Okay, is that in front of the Iron Monger? Is that a lot of wear? Is that glare? What is that? I think it's glare. Is that glare? It's got a lot of dimples in the play field, but it's glare. And the magnet's pretty good still for both. But I love that they actually have red LEDs in the inlanes. Oh, yes. Those are the best. Damn. Wow. This is what you don't do when you buy a machine, people. Oh, come on. You know those nights. It's a little late. You've had a little too much to drink. You get a good idea. Oh, no, it's not a good idea when you do that. Color DMG. That looks fantastic. Custom outrageous shooter rod. Wait a minute. An outrageous shooter rod. He doesn't even have the picture of it. Do you notice that? No, he does not. Well, it's got the Iron Man head thing on it. Okay. Which is going to suck if you want to hit the super skill shot trying to do it with the freaking head on it. Lighted speaker panel. Shooter lane cliffy protector. Incredible Iron Man topper. Plastic protectors on play field. Yeah. Would you or would you not? How much is it? $7,000. Yeah, I know. It's a little steep. I would say that it's still a decent one. I would change out the LEDs but I sold mine for about $6,300 or so and it was it actually had powder coating and all that stuff I would look at more of this one would be good at maybe like $55, $56 yeah oh and shipping's not included either yeah shipping's not included either but I was thinking I sold my boy I can really date myself $4,300 Yeah. That's what I mean. Well, okay, mine was actually, it was a refinery edition, so I had a lot of stuff on there. Oh, refinery edition. Refinery edition. You're one of those. Yeah. But it was a beautiful machine. I actually had to sell it because that was the only game I was playing. So I had to get it out of the house because otherwise that's all I was going to play. There's a Black Rose right next to it. I know. That's what I saw. And ironically, Black Rose was next to it. to mine down here. Here's the thing with this, though. Iron Man's not a bad game, but when I see $7,000, I start equating it to, well, what other game can I buy at $7,000 or less? And I can think of a handful more games to buy than an Iron Man with... I don't like the topper. It looks kind of funky. Yeah, the topper is a fail, but... Yeah. Totally agree. Are you ready for the next one, boys? Yes, sir. Sure. This is even a funnier one. 143 907 715 023 Oh, that's what I've been waiting for, baby. Yes. Actually, the most surprising thing about this is 13 people are watching it. Yes. $8,000. Matahari. Come on, stop picking on poor Orange County pinballs. Well, he keeps on giving me fodder. I keep on seeing him go with it. Well, it's chromed. you can take the chrome and strip it off. At least the playfield looks good. Actually, I think the playfield is the worst part because at least the side in the chrome, and it looks like it's been re-decaled, and it looks like it's almost cleared. That Cougar lane looks experienced. Yeah, it's been pretty worn on the other stuff. But you're not getting, you might be getting some playing. It's hard to tell with the giant glare in the middle of the playfield. Yeah, exactly. But seriously, like, there's not, for a game of this age, I would assume you'd see more. I mean, I'm, I don't know. $7,000. Yeah, I would not pay remotely that for it. No. I wouldn't pay $1,000 for this game if it's that bad, because it's not a fun game. Have you guys ever played Mata Hari? I haven't found a, yeah, it's, they're all roached here. Yeah. It's pretty bad. Yeah, so that's the shot. But there's another suggestion of a Starz that's around $4,000. We should buy that. Yeah. No. This is so scary how some of these people put this stuff up on their wall. Well, Bruce, do you have anything we'd actually want to buy? Actually, no. That's the problem with eBay lately. When you have a Hollywood pinball machine from Chicago Coin for $2,800. Say the name of it. Just Hollywood. Hollywood. It's the Hollywood pinball machine. Remember the EM with Laurel and Hardy on it? Oh. $2,800. A Viking for $7,000. That's what I call plundering. That's bad. Back to the Future for $80,000. $80,000. It's still on there for $80,000. Sega X-Files for $5,000. But at this point, you're pretty much hoping for, There's someone that's like, oh, I used to love pinball. Oh, what game did I used to play? Mata Hari. I wonder how much those are going for. And they search eBay and they go, eight grand? That doesn't sound too bad. That's ridiculous. Okay, here we go. We're ready for the next one. I just found one. Oh, it's bad. Yes. Bring it on. 293-594-831-596. Ron, you didn't get any of this money for this one. Oh, shit. Star Trek Next Gen for $8,000. Damn, I underpriced it. What is that on top of it? What the hell is that thing on it? It looks like it's got the Stargate pyramid on top of it. This is the wrong thing. Shoot the pyramid. Oh, it looks like new in box Star Trek toys that they stuck in a flag case. Is that what that is? I think so. Let's see. Well, it's got the upgraded cannons, which everyone puts in. Yes. LED City. Well, you've got to have the upgraded cannons. That's the way it was supposed to be. I love how he's taking a picture of, like, the center of the play field three different times just to show off the LEDs and how they change colors. Oh, no, he's showing off all the extra toys. Yeah. The Bird of Prey, which is facing the wrong direction. The extra Enterprise toy for some reason. the shuttle toy that's completely different than the original because it's lit up. Well, let's not show you the cabinet except for the front, you know, maybe and I'll show you this side. The LEDs where we got blue and green and red LEDs because that's great. How much is this, Ron? How much did you sell yours for? I think I said the price. This is like $8,000. You sounded like Dr. Evil just then. $8,000. See, this is an original machine with a few upgrades. It has the little lasers, laser on the cannon for better accuracy, and has been upgraded with LED lights because that's always an upgrade. Also has a playfield protector. Oh. Well, that's where your money's at. Well, there you go. Yeah. Everything on it works great. I love when they put that, like, nothing else, no other details, just everything works great. Probably a fuse. Yeah. In Vegas. He should sell this for $8,000 and then donate it to the Pinball Museum. I didn't realize you could put lasers on your cannons. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got them online. Yep. They were cool. One more, guys. One more. I actually found one, too, but I don't know how to. You can do yours first. Go ahead. 393-416-469-781. You'll have to read that back to me again. I screwed up. 393. No, sorry, 373. Oh, that's where we all screwed up at. Yeah, you got penises. So 373-416-469781. That's as easy as it sounds. We're going to go back in time. Oh, my goodness. This was actually on our show about a year and a half ago for the same price. Oh, my goodness. Really? Italy. It's in Italy. $80,000. That's it. I get five pictures for $80,000. Okay, not $80,000. $79,999. There's the dollar savings. But wait, free shipping? Wait, from Italy? Hey, if you pay $80,000, I would fly that over personally. I like the description, which it just says, back to the future, daddy's pinball, full LED plus mod. That's it. It's never a good sign when it says seller assumes all responsibility for this listing. That's the very first just, by the way, closed captioning. There's nothing here except for he, yeah, anyhow. $80,000. What else could you buy for $80,000? You could buy a sweet lineup for that. I could buy all of the Reach Around Awards. All of them. All right, Bruce. Last one. What you got for us? 174. Oh, okay. 174. 594. 925. 601. It is rare. That is true. Full throttle by Highway Pinball. Coin-op pinball machine. For $4,375. Wait, why do they have pictures of other games in there? Yeah, why is it prison? You get that with it. It's a pie. One get one. Yeah. Well, you also get a crane machine. All right. Excellent. And a rush 2049. Ron, this is all of our alley. Okay, what about the flipper, the left flipper? You like the alignment? Yeah, you like that alignment? Isn't that great? Aligned correctly? Well, luckily it's 100% working. working. Well, it probably is. Rush the Rock? Crane Game? Oh my god. So do I get all of that for $4,000? If I got all of that for $4,000, that would be great. Yes, please. This is a used pinball machine. It's been reconditioned by our service techs and 100% working. It will have some imperfections. Like the flippers? If the flippers have been up for a few weeks, is that a problem? See a doctor for that? Yes. Well, what concerns me is your tech went through this and missed that. Yeah. This full throttle, they're not just a little dot you line up to. It's a silhouette of the flipper. Flipper, yes. It used to be in Peru, Indiana. Peru, Indiana. Really? That's a place? Yeah, well, it's probably pronounced different. It's probably like upstate New York names. Like Cairo is Cairo. Or Avon is Avon. We call it Avon. So it's probably like Peru or something. Well, we have a hurricane in Utah, but it's pronounced hurricane. Is it next to Oregon? It's like the Saints' word. That tells you how I've been down there many times. Come to Fillmore and then Beaver, and it's spelled F-I-L-L-M-O-R-E. So, I love Fillmore and Beaver. Wow. It's just, well, you can get it. You can get T-shirts and bumper stickers that say, I love beaver in beaver. The very first billboard you come to is eat beaver tacos, and it's got a giant beaver next to a taco. It's, yeah. I love it. I want to go back to Utah. It's awkward on so many levels. No, the best actually is. Intercourse, Pennsylvania? No, no, no. The best is, what's it called? Montana? Polygamy, Florida. beer. Yes. There's also a five wives vodka, too. Yes. You can't have more than just one. It's a polygamy quarter. Okay. I do have one more. Okay. Let's go for it. Okay. Last one. Isn't this fun, this one? Okay. 233-880- 775- 2-7-1. Oh! Yes. Oh! Whoa, it's a Star Wars topper. One of the best toppers out there. Starting bid, $1,800. We're going to buy it now for $2,500. There's five watchers. $100 for shipping. Well, sorry, $90.60. I better get specific here. Doesn't Swippin' House still have one or two of these? No, I think they're all done. Holy crap. The Black Knight one is $3,500. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Toppergate is real. Holy fucking idiots are out in the fucking world. If you buy a topper for this much money, just put your hand in a wood chipper. I actually have a Black Knight topper that I bought because eventually I'd like to own the game. But because of this, I was like, this is going to sell out and this is going to be a cluster. pretty much did the same with R2-D2. It's like, I'm going to Star Wars eventually. I need to get the topper. I just have to get the topper. What they should do now, here's what I'd love to see Stern do. Re-release these. And fuck every person who's bought this at a fucking ridiculous price. That would be classic. I like how the picture of the box is upside down. Yeah. But that would be classic. Hey, I'm going to make $2,000 on this topper, honey. Uh-oh, wait a sec. Stern just announced are going to release all these toppers again at $599? Oh, fuck! It's the same people who don't want vaults to be released because I want my machine to be worth a lot more. Man, that hurt my Spider-Man. His fat face. Yeah, I have a Tron that I should probably sell before they release the vault. Yeah. Do you think that's going to be the next vault? Tron? I think eventually it will because I don't know when it'll come out, but I mean it's a cheap game it's not that expensive they're coming out with a roller coaster down in Disney World so why not right? well they have a new movie coming out so either Vaulted or they're gonna do a new Tron game aren't they? I mean it's almost inevitable with how much Disney property that seems like all pinball companies produce it's expensive Disney I'm gonna be going about Disney Ron loves Disney fucking stupid mouse rodent. Friggin' rodent. Okay. Well, that's been episode 160. So, guys, thank you for coming on. Yes, thanks for having us. Plug your way. Plug away. Plug yourselves. We are Josh Roop and Scott Larson of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. If you want to get a hold of us, you can get a hold of us the traditional way at LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com or the preferred method is Facebook. We like to be hit up via Messenger at LoserKidPinball. Same with Twitter and Instagram. You can reach us there at LoserKidPinball. If you want to check out our stuff, you can go to SoundCloud.com slash LoserKidPinballPodcast. That's where all of our episodes are at. We just did a new one with Chris Myers, which I was very honored that he picked our podcast to come on. He is a very nice gentleman and it was way cool to talk to him. And then we had Eric Meunier right before that. Two great episodes back-to-back, in my opinion. Okay. Spoken like a true podcaster. You could tell there. You could tell that. The best podcast, the last one out. Yes. Oh, is that the Gary Stern method? Okay. My favorite podcast is the last one we record. We get too much crap about the Keith Elwin stuff, so we've got to start. That's it. That's the funniest part. Well, you have the exclusive Keith Elwin agreement. That's why he hasn't been on our show, because we just have exclusive agreement. exclusive to loser kid and occasionally super awesome pinball show I guess if we said that enough people would believe it well Franchi did pay us the royalties to have that one on oh he did? by the way I just barely pulled up the group chat and the only thing I saw was the giant inflatable penis Josh sent me Wait a minute, there's something in chat. Oh, I haven't been in there. Oh, should I even look at this? Yes, you should. There's your next quicksilver topper. Yes. Oh, God. Okay. I got you. Be green, we're good. All right. Thanks, everybody. Hey, shout-outs to, well, Isaac, Follow bonus. And Robert Pires of Top Rope Pinball. Catch him on Twitch. Until next time, thanks again, Loser Kid guys. Oh, what? Are you going to say something else? I have to say something else. Okay, what are you saying? You missed one topic of ours. Oh, what? I need a name for a co-op. We have been fighting over making a name. You've been fighting over the actual decision to make a name or fighting over the name? The name itself. Okay. So we need names. Garbage plate pinball. I know. Ron wants garbage plate pinball because that's a garbage plate. You guys ever heard of a garbage plate? Like French fries and an egg and all that stuff? I've heard of chin flipping, but. Oh, wow. No, actually, what you do is you either put cold mac salad, cold beans, fries, or hash browns as your base. Then you put either hamburgers, hot dogs, eggs. You can put sausage, anything like that as your meat. And then you put hot sauce over it, and then onions, and then ketchup and mustard. Sign me up. I think my stomach just exploded. And it's only seven, it's like seven or eight dollars for a whole plate. It's like a pound of food. It's delicious. It is the best. And it's great for after when you're drinking. It's like it soaks up all the alcohol. Yeah. They're open 24 hours, most of the places around here, or at least for like four in the morning. called the Slam Stomach Special. Oh! There you go. But we need names. We need names for... You guys have any suggestions for a coin? We want to have the name Pinball in it. So it has to have the name Pinball unless it's real. Rochester Pinball Co-op. I said... I said RPC and... Yeah, that's it. We were talking like, it's out of place and we called it, you know, something else and I was like, I don't want that. In case we ever move or we gotta... So I want ideas. Something Pinball or Pinball something. email us. The winner gets a free month at the place. Wait a minute, so they'd have to be local for that even to mean anything? Well, if not, if they're not local, I'll send them something. Oh, you're going to fly them out? I'll send them something. I will send them something in the mail. Alright, well, if you have names for the co-op, you can send them to slamtillpodcast at gmail.com and that is also our website www.slamtillpodcast.com Check it out in the upper right-hand corner. All our links are there. You can watch some of my exciting Twitch streaming. I have been streaming more lately. Hope to continue that trend. Once again, this has been Episode 160. Thanks, everybody. Until next time, say goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Chris Davis. All my life, all my life You can do me if you try All my life, all my life I'll keep you, keep you alive Oh my, oh my Oh my. Oh my. This audio recording reveals the disturbing truth about what is hidden in reverse. Listen to this clip. Or backwards. I can talk backwards. See? There you go. People are going to be listening to that backwards now if I said anything. I said smoke more marijuana or something. It sounds like gibberish. Right. Now listen to it backwards. Now again, with just a backwards speech. Shocking. Right. But there's more. Here is the second clip. Catch it. It's played backwards. What? It's lined in the introduction. So don't need to read this. Hold on. I'll say that line backwards. Got it? Fucked. Reversing the audio, the hidden message becomes clear. Let's listen to that again. Oh my. These messages are just a small sample of what lurks in reverse. Pay attention. The truth is out there.