Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Wizards & Warriors Episode 8: El Rucko Reigns

Wizards & Warriors·podcast_episode·2h 9m·held·Jul 9, 2025
View original

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Competitive pinball podcast covers tournament results, new releases, and interviews Leslie Ruckman.

Summary

Wizards & Wizards & Warriors 8 features hosts Frisco Pinball and Joe Landis discussing competitive pinball news, recent tournament results, and an upcoming interview with Leslie Ruckman (El Rucko), winner of the 2025 Yagpin Women's Match Play Championship. The episode covers new game releases including Harry Potter from Jersey Jack Pinball and Predator from Pinball Brothers, recent code updates for Stern titles, and highlights tournament winners from across North America.

Key Claims

  • Harry Potter is probably the biggest license in pinball left other than perhaps Mario and Pokemon

    high confidence · Hadi discussing Harry Potter release by JJP

  • JJP has been making strides in their Flipper Tech with Harry Potter

    high confidence · Joe Landis commenting on Harry Potter gameplay experience at Out of Time Amusements

  • Stern has released revamped code for John Wick and Uncanny X-Men

    high confidence · Hadi and Joe discussing recent Stern code updates

  • Jaws 50th anniversary release features new 1.0 code update that significantly improves the game

    high confidence · Hadi noting the code release was held until the anniversary release

  • Pinburgh 2025 is expecting double the player size from last year

    high confidence · Joe Landis discussing upcoming Pinburgh tournament expectations

  • Leslie Ruckman won the 2025 Yagpin Women's Match Play Championship

    high confidence · Episode introduction and tournament highlights

Notable Quotes

  • “If you are a player, always treat your TDs well. They're working their ass off for you.”

    Frisco Pinball @ ~4:30 — Emphasis on respecting tournament directors and acknowledging their labor

  • “I always want to compete. It's the hardest competition.”

    Joe Landis @ ~23:00 — Preference for competing in toughest field (Division A) rather than easier placement (Division B)

  • “Stern firing on all cylinders with code releases.”

    Frisco Pinball @ ~45:00 — Positive assessment of recent Stern software updates across multiple titles

  • “One of the best things we've seen in pinball has been the growth to allow more regional tournaments to have larger Whoppers so everybody doesn't have to flock to one area.”

    Frisco Pinball @ ~1:48:00 — Commentary on positive tournament structure trends enabling distributed competitive play

  • “I think Valinor is the ultimate endgame for me.”

    Frisco Pinball @ ~37:00 — Personal assessment of Lord of the Rings wizard mode difficulty ranking

Entities

Frisco PinballpersonJoe LandispersonLeslie RuckmanpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyPinball BrotherscompanyStern PinballcompanyHarry PottergamePredatorgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Jersey Jack Pinball's Harry Potter release described as 'probably the biggest license in pinball left' with Collector's Edition, Premium, and Arcade versions shipping

    high · Hadi: 'Released by JJP, it looks beautiful... arcades and wizard editions are going out now... CE looks stunning'

  • ?

    code_update: Stern executing multiple significant code updates including John Wick revamp, Uncanny X-Men revamp with redesigned future mode, and Jaws 50th Anniversary 1.0 release

    high · Hadi: 'Stern firing on all cylinders with code releases... John Wick got revamped, Uncanny X-Men got revamped... new 1.0 code is huge'

  • ?

    product_launch: Pinball Brothers launching Predator as wide-body title with Arnold Schwarzenegger license and minigun mech on left playfield

    high · Hadi: 'reveal of Predator from the Pinball Brothers... I love the idea of a wide body... old painless minigun on the left... that's one of the coolest shots'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Harry Potter features rotating staircase mechanic that sends ball to different locations, described as very cool and integral to gameplay

    high · Joe: 'The staircase mech is very cool. It rotates and sends the ball in all different places.'

  • ?

    event_signal: Regional tournaments across North America showing significant growth in Whopper counts (100+ point tournaments common), enabling distributed competitive participation

    high · Tournament results show multiple events with 100+ Whoppers; Hadi: 'growth to allow more regional tournaments to have larger Whoppers so everybody doesn't have to flock to one area'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.388

0:00
Welcome everybody, Wizards and Warriors, episode 8 is here. Thank you all for being patient as we try to get a better cadence with these episodes. As we said in the last one, we're trying to do at least one a month And hopefully give you guys some long-form entertainment Yes, that was on purpose For all things competitive pinball, I am Hadi Frisco Pinball My co-host Joe Landis, Jay Land here Hey, what's going on? Not much, how have you been?
0:49
Yeah, it's been good, Hadi I've been playing in a lot of local events Still kind of running tournaments out here um you know shout out jermaine i've been kind of copying some of his formats and running one day 200 events and they've been uh pretty well received you know getting a lot of whoppers in a short amount of time so nice so what is the challenge in doing those versus what you have been doing yeah no it's um it's cool because like you can you can squeeze everything in a day um you know he's got a he's been running these for a couple years now so it's like it's a tried and True Formula, just kind of replicating that.
1:28
But it's, you know, finding the right mix of games, the right venue that can kind of host those. You know, shout out Jackpot out in Purcellville, Virginia. I've been working with the main guy over there, Eric. You know, able to run one so far, and we're running the next one in a couple weeks right before Pinnberg. Yeah, that's awesome, man. Those max percentage ones are always fun to watch, But I can't imagine running it So kudos to you, that's not easy So if you are a player Always treat your TDs well They're working their ASS off for you This is not PG so we can say it But you know, super cool man I always love to see how people Put their spin if they can As much as they can on these tried and true Formats and that's how we got hybrid But last time we chatted We talked about Starfighters Had a great interview with Ray Day Before that, had a great interview with ZMAC And this episode is no different We are going to talk with one of the winners From Canada's biggest tournament, Yagpin 2025 We are going to be interviewing The awesome Leslie Ruckman, aka El Rucko Your 2025 Yagpin Women's Match Play Championship We're going to talk to her about How she started her career in pinball Some of her favorite, least desirable pins to play at a tournament how she developed her prowess and all that sort of good stuff. We'll recap with her, analyze her championship victory by reviewing each round and getting her thoughts on competing up north with a very tough field on a very infamous setup. We're talking red rubbers, precision flippers, and lightning flippers. So precision lightning with red rubbers, forget it. It was a battle. I competed up there. I did okay in classics I got enough points to make my card Which was nice One point was in the playoffs But as the time wore down I slowly got bumped down and down Further and further But thank you Derek Thompson Scott Jeff Teolis And I don't want to forget anybody But if I do I apologize Everybody up north for putting on An amazing amazing tournament I will definitely be back I won't be flying three legs On a trip there I won't be taking flare airlines I will plan better But it was a great great tournament And I hope you all Had the pleasure of watching it Also kudos to Tom He allowed me The opportunity to help run the stream And help him out while his son Competed so I got to do a lot of commentary Hopefully you all enjoyed that as well as help him kind of operate the stream. As Twitch guys know, it's not easy, so I was happy to assist. Did you get to watch any of the egg pin?
Jaws 50th Anniversary
game
Lord of the Ringsgame
Yagpin 2025event
Pinburghevent
The Beastevent
Carlos de la Cerdaperson
Mike Vinikourperson
Jermaineperson
Ericperson
Breanne Huntperson
Sterling McToskaperson
Uncanny X-Mengame
John Wickgame
  • ?

    event_signal: Pinburgh 2025 expecting to double player size from previous year, requiring layout expansion to movie theater first floor

    high · Joe: 'with it being twice as large in player size this year... I'm going to be real interested in seeing how they fit all of these banks'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: One-day 200-event tournament format proven successful and being replicated by multiple TDs as alternative to traditional multi-day events

    high · Joe: 'shout out jermaine i've been kind of copying some of his formats and running one day 200 events and they've been uh pretty well received'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Uncanny X-Men code update changes future mode to auto-trigger after battle completion, eliminating need to work towards mode - described as 'much more intuitive'

    high · Hadi: 'they changed the future. So you beat a battle, then you get sent to the future automatically... much more intuitive than having to work towards the future'

  • ?

    product_concern: Harry Potter's call-outs reported as running low in volume relative to movie audio, flagged as balance issue needing attention

    medium · Hadi: 'I do hope they balance that movie audio, though, with the call-outs, because it seemed like the call-outs were a little low on the volume'

  • $

    market_signal: Jaws LE maintaining strong secondary market value at $13-14k with topper after brief dip to $11-12k; attributed to improved 1.0 code

    high · Hadi: 'They were selling for $11 and $12, but I think the new 1.0 code has everybody really enjoying it... holding their value at $13, $14 with the topper'

  • ?

    community_signal: Tournament growth and distribution enabling previously lower-ranked players (WPPR 4000s) to place highly at major events, democratizing competitive success

    medium · Hadi: 'Ryan Hardy... he's like in the 4,000s. But taking down top four podium at a big event like that is huge... 82 Whoppers'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern strategically held Jaws 1.0 code update until 50th Anniversary release to drive excitement and sales for special edition

    high · Hadi: 'I think they were smart to hold the 1.0 until the release of the anniversary. I get why they did it.'

    • 4:27
    Yeah, yeah, I tried to tune in as much as I could. Yeah, nice job on stream, Hadi. You know, running commentary for a big tournament like that isn't easy, so I always appreciate it. Yeah, it was fun to commentate. I got to do it. Miles Grant, Bob, Tom, all these other amazing players And shout out to Jim Belcido for winning the main Derek Thompson winning classics Which is not easy to do Because he was running the whole thing So to take The time and be able to TD you know make tough decisions Like the one where I was Ranked 252 on the day they ran The Computer for Never Drains And it kicked me to B I was like no no no As of May 3rd I was 248 and so So he had that, Carl, thank you, Carl, manually changed it so I would be pulled into A. I still didn't wrap myself up. But I wanted the opportunity to compete. So, yes, I could have been near the top of B, but I didn't want that. I think a lot of players that have been in the top 250, yourself included, probably would have wanted the same thing. I know we talked with El Rocco about that in our interview. So would you want to be at the top of B or play in A? Oh, I always want to compete It's the hardest competition Yeah, exactly That was the right move It didn't work out, but you know what? I got a lot of experience with those Yankton settles, man, that was not easy So, before we get into The rest of our episode, we're going to talk quickly About some pinball news You don't have to hear it from us, because you hear it from everybody else But it's nice to get our opinion here and there So, tons of new releases It's been a while since we talked, so Harry Potter Obviously the big release, probably the biggest license in pinball left other than perhaps Mario, Pokemon. I think Back to the Future is smaller than Harry Potter, but there's not a lot of licenses left that can top J.K. Rowling's literary work as well as film franchises. Released by JJP, it looks beautiful. I haven't played it yet. I know the arcades and wizard editions are going out now. They're on the line. That CE looks stunning. I love the staircase mech and the progression through each semester to get to the final wizard, exam wizard mode, or the mini wizards that I saw Joel from Flippin' Out Pinball Play on his stream. It really does look great with all the assets. I do hope they balance that movie audio, though, with the call-outs, because it seemed like the call-outs were a little low on the volume. What are your thoughts on Harry Potter? Have you had a chance to play it? yeah um one of the locations near me actually just got the collector's edition um was able to put it on location so shout out out of time amusements uh ocelot brewery i'm sterling um just yesterday really so uh i was able to get i think one or two games on and um so far it's it feels pretty good uh the flippers feel nice and snappy um i know jjp has been making you know strides and their Flipper Tech, so it's nice. The staircase mech is very cool.
    7:38
    It rotates and sends the ball in all different places. Yeah, it's a cool game. Hopefully you'll get one on location near you soon. Yeah, definitely. I know they ordered three CEs for the Cidercade. I don't know why they're putting CEs on location, but whatever. I'll go play it.
    7:57
    Excited to see that topper. I know they're going to have to do some work on it, but man, they really. Eric and the rest of the team, AIR controversy notwithstanding, I'm not going to give you my opinion on it, but I think it just looks like they put as much as they could with the license. I was wondering if they would split it up into two different pins, you know, maybe films one through three and four through seven or whatever it is split, but for all the assets that they have, they had to include so many moments. I am not a Harry Potter enthusiast, And after looking at the featurette and reveal trailer Man, I was like, dude, this looks like a blast So congrats to JJP for a surefire sales winner As far as I can tell There's a lot of people that put in orders for CEs And Pinball needed that I know King Kong sold well But you can still find LEs And I feel like that was the litmus test a long time ago Granted, we are post-COVID New economy new world situation, so maybe LEs are just not destined to sell out anymore, but I know JJP with Harry Potter unsold, congrats, more pinball is better in my opinion and so we'll see what happens with that, and now there's more pinball after that because we got the reveal of Predator from the Pinball Brothers and I watched the reveal trailer, the unofficial trailer unofficial gameplay, I love The idea of a wide body I think what they did with ailing Was excellent Minus the hiccups that it took to get them there And tech issues Engineering issues But man that old painless minigun on the left I think that's one of the coolest shots Just because of the muzzle flash And the fire I think it's If I can speak in 50s language I think it was ace I love the theme integration But having the actors and the assets is key I've seen the updated Call outs with Arnold Light I don't know man What are your thoughts on Predator Yeah I mean it's Tough to judge I don't think that We're going to get one on location around me So I Kind of want to reserve any Judgment but I mean it's a cool theme So I hope it does well What's your favorite Arnold movie Would you say T2 Jingle All The Way What are you looking for? If you could have an Arnold pin, what would it be? Or have they already released it? I would say a new T2 because I think that's the best Terminator movie However, I probably could I would love to see a Total Recall That would be kind of cool Total Recall is great. Last Action Hero One of my favorite movies growing up, so that would be also pretty cool A refresh of that would be awesome Yeah, a refresh would be cool Yeah, I mean, Arnold's great Yeah, exactly A lot of good movies That is the news We've got Space Hint coming on shore Alice in Wonderland is starting to ship the Jaws 50th anniversary What did you think of the red? I think it looks pretty cool I would definitely get the LE if I could but they're not really dropping in price They did for a little, but now they're sort of holding their value at $13, $14 with the topper. They were selling for $11 and $12, but I think the new 1.0 code has everybody really enjoying it. What do you think of the Jaws' anniversary release? Yeah, it looks fine. I mean, the red accents are nice. I'm sure the sparkle play field looks good under light. But, I mean, the code, I think, is the biggest thing that, you know, was kind of stuck in there. under the announcement, like 1.0 is huge for a cornerstone, especially in Elwynn. Yep. And I'm excited to play it. I haven't gotten a lot of time on the 1.0 code yet, but it looks great. Yeah, same here. I think the addition of – I think they were smart to hold the 1.0 until the release of the anniversary. I get why they did it. But, man, Stern firing on all cylinders with code releases. John Wick got revamped, Uncanny X-Men got revamped, I played the new code. I really enjoy how they made the future, they changed the future. So you beat a battle, then you get sent to the future automatically, and then you have to defeat the Sentinels to collect that perk for that X-Men. So if you don't, you know, you don't, but you don't get the perk, but it's much more intuitive than having to work towards the future. Did you get to play the new code?
    12:49
    Yeah, I played it for X-Men and for WIC. And, yeah, I think it's Mike Finicore was the – Yep, MXV. And that rains on that. And, yeah, shout out to Mike, dude. He crushed it on both games. I think it's – they're radically different, but I think in a good way. Yeah. Much more approachable for, you know, for all players. Yeah, you need that. You got to make it flow somewhat, not only with the engineering, but with the code. Like, I still think the issue with Wick is figuring out what you need to do still, but they'll get there. As much as it got maligned, man, if you can get in a groove on Wick, it is fun. It is a lot of fun to play. Things are beeping and going off. You're like, ah, I'm at 50 million all of a sudden. And as you'll see when we review the footage with El Rocco of the 2025 Yigpen Women's Finals, Breanne Hunt crushed it, and she had a really good game. And that was not an easy wick. So her score is the equivalent of getting billions, basically. So, yeah. So that's all the news. We're going to head on into the rest of our podcast episode. So the way it will work is right now we're going to do a little viewer request and put a spin on it. I hope you all enjoy it. But make sure to reach out to us, wizardsandwarriorspodcast at gmail.com if you want to highlight your upcoming or recent tournament. if you have a question about competitive pinball. And so, yeah, thanks for listening. Let's get on with the rest of the episode, Episode 8. So here we go. We've got a viewer request here, and what I'm going to do is show this. This comes from Blueberry Johnson, Dr. Blueberry Johnson. It was ranked the hardest wizard modes to achieve.
    14:35
    We were going to – I forgot to ask this of Leslie, but we're going to ask it to you now. We'll do a quick little overview of this. But what do you think, whether you're a seasoned player, novice, is the hardest wizard mode to achieve? Now, some of these are not common titles, but we've kind of grabbed them from different resources and polls and other players. So what I want you to do is take this list or come up with your own list of at least three. You don't have to do more than that. Give me the three hardest wizard modes to achieve. Send an email to wizardsandwarriorspodcast At gmail.com I'll put everybody in a Wheel spin and we'll randomly Select a winner To win some swag whether that's Pinball swag Swag I picked up at pinball tournaments I'm not giving you my leftovers I promise But we'll give you a prize You just tell me your address and then we'll Mail it out to you so again The way you enter Is give me a list of three separate wizard modes that you find are the hardest to achieve, email wizardsandwarriorspodcasts at gmail.com and then we'll enter you there and this will be open until we record our next episode which will probably be within a couple weeks, so please get those entries in, don't dawdle, and yeah, we'll go from there. Alright, so we have a list here. Simpsons, Super Duper Mega Extreme Wizard Mode Iron Maiden Run to the Hills, Lord of the Rings Valinor Spider-Man Superhero, Iron Man Do or Die, Big Buck Hunter Open Season, 24 Agent 24 and World Poker Tour Kiefer Invitational. Now, I'm going to cut out from my list 24, Big Buck Hunter and World Poker Tour even though I know World Poker Tour is up there because I haven't played them heavily so I don't really know what it's going to take to get there especially for Big Buck Hunter and 24 my number 3 would probably have to be Iron Man, Do or Die no, Spider-Man Super Hero because you have to get all the movie modes all the villains, I believe all the multi-balls, and then all the, I think the movie modes are the side modes as well. So I've gotten to the first mini-wizard, and that was a lot.
    17:17
    To get to the last one on this one, I think I'm going Spider-Man. What about you? If we're ranking, starting with the third. Yeah, third toughest.
    17:29
    Okay. I don't know. It's pretty tough. I don't think I've gotten to any of these. It's hard to kind of... I haven't either, but I guess if you had to just guesstimate which one's going to be your third toughest. Yeah. I mean, I'll agree with Superhero and Spider-Man. I mean, I've played Battle Royale and it's a game that I really enjoy playing and feel comfortable on, but I don't think I've gotten to Superhero before. either of us. And I've gone to Battle Royale, and I was like, oh my god, I made it. And then someone was like, no, dude, there's like a hundred other things you have to do.
    18:11
    Alright, so what's your number two? Number two, I'll throw Iron Man on there. I'm actually not, I don't know, I don't think I've gotten even close to Do or Die, but I know that I, I think the first time I even heard about it was at the first Beast Tournament, and I think it was like Aaron Rich had gotten to that mode. Like, during qualifying, everyone was just like, what the hell? He just put it like a monster score. He ended up being like the top scorer.
    18:43
    But yeah, that's... I'll put that as number two. I think I lost you on the audio. Oh, shit. Sorry. Thank you.
    19:01
    Yeah, so for number two, I was going to go Simpsons Super Duper Mega Extreme Wizard Mode because all the TV modes, which is hard enough, all the multiballs, all the jackpots,
    19:18
    and there's a bunch of other, like, side modes. I feel like there's, like, Cletus. You still have to get Cletus, which is through the left.
    19:28
    It's like that Whitewater shop or reverse. I forgot what it was, but I've never seen anybody get it. I've heard Bigfoot-style telltales about it, where someone's cousin who worked at Nintendo for a day got it. And, yeah, I'll put Simpsons. Super-duper mega extreme wizard mode there.
    19:50
    And, yeah. So number one, let's go with Valinor I feel like that is the ultimate Endgame for a lot of professional players And for anybody that owns Lord of the Rings, it's an amazing pin I've seen people on stream go for it, and I don't know man It just, I've got, I've achieved Like 40% of the way there I've played Lord of the Rings a good amount of times, and there's just so much you have to do. And the gift of the elves is such a grind. But then you're getting to destroying the ring, and then the multi-balls with the jackpots there. I don't know. I think Valinor is the ultimate endgame for me. What about you?
    20:43
    Yeah, I think that's definitely up there. I mean for me I think I'm going to put Run to the Hills at the top just because Iron Maiden is near and dear to my heart it's the only game that I own and it's still something that I'm striving to go for so what do you need for Run to the Hills? you need I think you need to collect all 10 tomb treasures to get there and it's like you basically have to do everything in the game I feel like I get one and I'm like yeah 10 million points for the one treasure Well yeah so That's our list Recapping I had Number one Valinor Number two Simpsons Super duper mega extreme wizard mode And number three Spider-Man superhero Joe you had Run to the hills is my top And then do or die Iron Man And then I think I also had superhero Yeah so again Please email us wizardsandwarriorspodcast.gmail.com with your top three hardest wizard modes to achieve and get in the running before the next episode for a prize that we will send to you. So our little game's over. Thank you, Dr. Blueberry Johnson, for that great question. You can also send us questions or send us tournaments you want to promote at the same email address I mentioned before. Right now, we're going to go to the recent tournaments and highlight your winners. and after that we hope you stay on for an excellent interview with Leslie Ruckman, El Rucko, their 2025 Women's Jigpin Champion.
    22:22
    So we'll start here. The first tournament we want to highlight is the second running of the Pendianapolis 500. Very cool themed tournament. I remember they were promoting it in Ray Day's Discord last year and it looked like a blast. I hope to go one year. Your winners there are Lowe's, Laser Lowe's, Carlos de la Cerda.
    22:42
    In first, getting 100 Whoppers. This was held in, obviously, Indianapolis, Indiana. Carlton Plourd, second, 78.09. Third, John Rangel with 66.30 Whoppers. And then you have your list of your other winners there. Christopher DeWitt Jr., Tyler Becker, Joe Bayer, Charlie Hornet, Tanner Troyer, and Bob Skinner. What do we got after that? After that we've got the New England Pinball Championship Winner there was Bone Cairns 92 points, Noah Crable got second 69.34, Nick DiStefano third 57, and Connor Mulberry in fourth 48 Congrats to everybody at the NEPC, got suppressed player there I tied for fifth, too. So, Brian O'Neill, shout out to you. That was held May 25th. So, after that, the amazing pinball race. I really do hope I get to go to this one. Held in Ostrander, Ohio, run by T.D. Galvin Morgan. Your winner's there on May 25th. Big weekend for pinball. Jesse Baker, 127 Whoppers. Preston Curry, 106.69. Sterling Matoska, the young Dynamo With 94.90 Whoppers in third, Neil Graff 85.63, and Galvin, look at you 5th For 77.84 Your other winners there Bateman Edwards, Jared Smith Jack Nebraska, Dominic Lavella, Steve Bowden And Gloss Up next we've got the DFW Pinball Titan Pinball Championship How do you say that? It was held in a fireworks warehouse The guy that runs a lot of the fireworks stands here He's a big pinball player, Randy Nelson Thank you, shout out to you for opening your place up It was two days worth of match play I was doing well and then I lamed out in the last two or three rounds Was it a mega match play? Howdy. It was two games per round, 10 rounds. Yeah. And we were trying to get as many whoppers as we could. And as you can see, the winner got a healthy amount. Huge. Yeah. Colin McAlpine, shout out. He got first with 122 points. Yeah.
    25:19
    Nick Miller in second with 102. Robert Byers third with 90. and Scott Love in fourth with 81.95. Yeah, congrats to all the players there.
    25:31
    Really well done. Thank you again, everybody. TD Lewis-Marx, Garrett Shahan, Carpool Pinball, Keith Chan, Clark McCoy, everybody, Harrison Maxwell, you guys killed it as far as keeping everything running. It was a lot of fun. So Stomp 7, June 8th, the main Zachary Fryer TV in beautiful East Rochester, New York, at the Rochester Pinball Collective.
    25:55
    Kudos to Slam Tilt Podcast for highlighting that tournament. Your winners, Alex Kelly. Nice. Nightlife.
    26:05
    110 Whoppers. Good job. Zachary Frey, 88 in second. Andy Cushman, 76 in third. And Sanjay Shah, fourth with 67.75. We got Jeff Teulis there, tied for seventh. Alberto Santana, Bob Swan, Dante Oliva, all in your top 10.
    26:27
    Up next, we've got the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show. That was run by Jermaine up in Tacoma, Washington. Your winner is Colin Urban.
    26:38
    175 points. Man, this is the hectic tournament. Look at that. Was it almost the top 10 players all got like 100 points? Yeah, note to self. Yeah. Noah Sicard in second with 155 points. Tim Hanson in third with 143.
    26:56
    And then rounding out the top four, we got Conrad Rustad with 133 points. We don't know games. There you go.
    27:03
    Yeah. All right. Now that's what I call Whoppers Volume 2, June 15th in Bay City, Michigan. TD Jeff Palmer. Sterling taking first with Sterling McToska with 88.62 Whoppers. Jared August in second with 66. Dominic Labella, 54.41. Nathan Brooks, 45.69. Tyrus Eagle, fifth at 38.78 whoppers. A lot of strong players there. Very nice.
    27:31
    Up next, we've got the Pinberg Satellite Mega Match Play at Arcade Legacy. So we've got another Ohio tournament here. This is up in Cincinnati, run by Jesse Baker. Got another laser low sighting here. Shout out Carlos. taking this one down to 112 points. Matt Waters in second with 89. Oh, I watched the finals of this tournament. It was really good. Nice. I know Matt. Shout out, Matt. He was talking about how he was kind of Carlos' co-pilot the entire kind of finals and was able to ride with him all the way to the end. So that's awesome. Yeah. Steve Bowden and Jesse Baker looks like they tied for third. Wow. 76 points there. Yeah, some really good Whoppers this summer, man. There's been so many good tournaments. We talked about this with El Rocco about one of the best things we've seen in pinball has been the growth to allow more regional tournaments to have larger Whoppers so everybody doesn't have to flock to one area or one location. So this is major proof of that, especially being a satellite, too, for Pinberg. So we have next up the Southern Pride Gaming Expo 2025 main event, the Hybrid Best Game That was TD by Tyler Campbell, located in Atlanta, Georgia Your winner, Braden Gentry with 116.52 Whoppers Dalton, Dalton Pinball, Dalton Ely, 99.81 in second Liam Bradley, good, good showing in third with 90.28 Whoppers And Ryan Hardy and Tommy Vernieri, my roommate at Yagpin running out 4-5, 82-76 Whoppers, respectively.
    29:14
    Real quick, shout out to Ryan Hardy. He's one of the local players near me in Northern Virginia. And he doesn't really play very much. I know he's in school right now, and he's back home for the summer.
    29:27
    And if you look at his rank, he's like in the 4,000s. But taking down top four podium at a big event like that is huge. Oh, yeah, 82 Whoppers, and you're in the 4,000s. It's like, yep, got 1,000. He's a really strong player. And, yeah, I hope he can make it to more events. Awesome.
    29:47
    Up next, we've got the 2025 NKY Pinball Open. This happened this past weekend, actually. Yeah. So this is out in Independence, Kentucky.
    29:58
    Your TD is Eric Ortenberger. And we've got our winners here. Ross Pergantino taking first with 52 points yet another Carlos sighting, Carlos Del Cerda second with 39, he's been busy this month yeah that doesn't make his card I bet Christopher DeWitt Jr. in third with 33 points and then Jeremy Ryan in fourth with 28 awesome, so congratulations everybody on all your amazing placements, tournaments being run So much fun to go over and watch It kind of gives us sort of a A look, a bigger look Over what's going on in the competitive Landscape for pinball, I enjoy it Again, as you know I could talk hours About it, but those are your Recent results We are leaving the worlds out for A reason, we'll talk About the world results That were held in Austria On our next episode, episode Nine of Wizards and Warriors, I hope you stay tuned for that one and tune in. Again, you can catch us at youtube.com slash frisco pinball or check out Wizards and Warriors on Spotify, Apple Music. We have an RSS feed. I'll include all the links in the show notes or the notes on YouTube, wherever you can get it. And make sure you bookmark it. Do the things that the kids say. Follow, like, and subscribe. We have some big tournaments coming up. We want to highlight those. Sweet Pacific City Open in Ohio, Galvin and crew coming up next week, July 17th through the 19th. Are you going to that?
    31:37
    I'm not. Okay, neither am I. I wanted to go to that for sure, but it's going to be a blast. They're already revealing the games and they're showing which ones are being moved in now. So after that, we've got the Brisbane Masters, July 19th through 20th. And what's after that, Joe? Ooh, we got Pinberg. He's back. Pinberg's getting better. Two times the fun.
    32:05
    We will both be there. Last year was a great experience. I missed qualifying by one point I remember in Paragon You made A and then Steve Zoller got bumped up with the rule of A restrictions or whatnot
    32:25
    Otherwise, there was going to be a crazy tiebreaker to get into A. It was a good experience. What are you expecting out of Pinberg this year? We've seen some banks, and they are
    32:39
    trying to be diplomatic here. They are intriguing. The first bank fine. The next three banks have been very tough to figure out how to approach it. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, with it being twice as large in player size this year, I mean, there's 20, the four banks that have been revealed so far, there's 21 banks to go.
    33:05
    So I'm going to be real interested in seeing how they fit all of these banks up in that, you know, the movie theater. I think they're going to extend it to the first floor, I believe. I hope so. Because, yeah, I don't think they'd have enough room for Bash at the Berg and – Right. I mean, I guess women's will use the banks that aren't being used, but – Yeah. We'll see. I mean, I have faith in, you know, obviously the Pembroke crew is well-seasoned and they know what they're doing. So, yeah, we'll see, man. I'm very excited. It was one of my favorite events to go to last year. had a really great time and excited to see everyone there yeah it's going to be a pinball party it is a master class tournament so if you get a chance watch the coverage I think Fox Cities is streaming it this year I don't think IE Pinball is but or if you get a chance go if there's any satellites near you try to compete but for next year also Hit F5 and get your Get your refresh on It's going to be fun, so that's in two weeks I'll see you there, and then after that We have the Beast Really fun tournament too I will be at that one I don't think you're going to that, right?
    34:26
    As of right now, I'm not sure But it's on the It's on the back burner, I'll try to make it Organized by Jeff Teolis and the crew at Pocketeer Billiards and everybody up there in Buffalo, New York. It was a good time last year. I really liked the food. The tournament itself was fun. It's a nice go-at-your-own-pace Herbstyle format, so pump and dump. I love posting videos, too. That expansion ring is open now. There's going to be a lot more space. A lot more space, more time to test the pins beforehand, so there's no too tight of a tilt. You really want something that's really hard as a TD and tech to get it right. But man, they did a great job last year, minus a couple pins, but it was so much fun. And then, you know, we've got the schedule listed right here. If you are listening to this podcast, please try to check out the video if you can, so you can follow along with us. It also helps in the interview portion, because you'll get to follow along and see all the footage from Yegpin. So here's your CERN Pro Circuit, excuse me, rest of the year schedule, Northwest Pinball Championships in August, Papa, Pinball Expo, Freeplay Florida, Pinson Addict, CP Pinball Winter Bash, and then the D82 Summer Pinball Classic, which is TBD. But that's it. That's our recap of all the recent tournaments. Before we get into the interview, we'd like to thank everybody for listening and watching. Joe, do you have anything before I cue us up?
    36:01
    I think we're good, man. Keep playing pinball. Can't wait to see you, Heidi. Yeah, you too, man. It's been fun. It's been a great year and a half. And as I used to say at the end of my streams, before we get into it, again, upcoming right now, the interview with Leslie Ruckman, El Rocco, the 2025 Yig Pin Women's Champion. Peace, love, and pinball, folks. See you later. Bye. See you.
    36:26
    Welcome, everybody. Episode 8, Wizards and Warriors. I'm so glad you all are here. We've got a great episode for you. this time, just like all the other times as well, but we have our special guest. We mentioned it at the beginning of this episode. What we'd like to do is highlight a recent major tournament, or any tournament, it doesn't have to be major, and hopefully get to interview one of the winners. And I promise we won't just interview the winners. I'm never going to get interviewed because I don't win these, but it would be nice to talk to as many people in the competitive pinball community as we can with my co-host here, Joe Landis. J-Land, how are you? Hey, what's up, Howdy? How's it going, man? Good to see you again. Our special guest is Leslie Ruckman, a.k.a. El Rucko. Welcome. Hey, thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you so much for coming on. We saw each other recently at Yagpin. It was a blast. It was a lot of pinball. We got to see a guy or girl in a Yegi suit, which was cool. They had Dune there A lot of pinball to play. I know we talked about Classics and Maine and women's Luckily I got grabbed up into A after the first day of match play I think you felt my pain I didn't make any moves, but it was nice to get grabbed up to get into A Division. How are you feeling post-Yagpin? I know you probably played a lot more pinball after that. And yeah, what were your thoughts overall on Yagpin before we begin?
    38:05
    It was a lot of fun. I went like three years ago. Whatever year it was like right after the pandemic.
    38:12
    Back when everyone was really antsy to play some more. So I gave it a little break because I thought the games were hard and whatnot. But I'm glad I came back and I'll probably go back again next year. I'm right there. Exactly. It wasn't too far of a trip for you. What did you think of the setup? I thought, I know the year before people were kind of saying, hey, what's up with the two by fours? And it was precision lightning flippers everywhere. It was tough. It was definitely a couple games where I'm just like Did you really need that? Yeah. But for the most part, I thought it was fine. Yeah, I don't know. Especially like a lot of the news turns, like you expect them to be like a crazy tight tilt.
    38:58
    Yeah, that was the first time I've ever seen precision lightning flippers. And then it was, I forgot what color rubbers on it, but I was like, great. It's like the Holy Trinity of not being able to play log.
    39:13
    That was the first time playing with those as well. and it was really noticeable for me on Rick and Morty. Yes, that's the one I was thinking of. I was on that bank three times. That was the one I was thinking of. First, I don't know how to play Rick and Morty because I never see it anywhere. I've played it. I forgot. Yeah, and someone was like, well, you've got to hit this and this. I'm like, I can't hit it. The first ball I had like 5,000 points because I didn't even get the skill shot. I was like, this is the worst game I've ever played, I think, although I have gotten a zero before. So let's let's ask you some questions for those that don't know you. Leslie Ruckman, El Rocco, how did you get introduced to pinball?
    39:53
    I mean, it's not that exciting of a story, but I and I had moved to Chicago, so we live by Logan Arcade. OK, our friend invited us to go play in his Killer Queen tournament.
    40:09
    And everyone was yelling at each other. And it was really intense. But when we got knocked out, we just started playing pinball. Nice. And then there was a league there, and then all your friends become pinball people. And then it's all you do all of a sudden. What about pinball kind of attracted you to the hobby? What was it about after playing Killer Queens, which is a great arcade game? I think that's phenomenal. But what sort of hooked you in? I think mostly it's just like we were in a new city and it was just a good way to hang out and meet people and yeah we were on a team so it was also a good way to like explore the city yeah that's mostly it would you say that you had a goal set for yourself this year? I feel like it's always important to look forward to something yeah um I guess it doesn't have to be specifically competitive focus but I know um this year I don't know if I have a goal for myself I mean in the past it was like getting number one in open which I didn't think would happen but I'm still here somehow I don't know just like there was always little milestones that I tried to reach. And once I got there, it's like, oh, well, what's the next thing? And what's the next thing? Yeah. So I remember even in like 2019, my goal was just to make it for Women's World. And I only made it because Danny Peck couldn't go or didn't go. Hey, it still counts. Yeah. So I don't know. It was always like, just like inching my way. that's awesome so you started getting serious when like uh with competitive pinball in chicago and then i'm assuming that's after that is when you moved to the west coast yeah so 2017 we moved back to california and that's when we started like really competing like i think in chicago i only did one tournament um poorly and then a season of bells and times. So yeah, after we moved, then again, it was just like kind of a way to meet people and something to do and explore a new city. So aside from meeting people, was there something in the competitive aspect that you sort of enjoyed? Like, have you ever done anything competitively, sports in high school or, you know, college that sort of triggered something you're like you and you know what I like this I mean for me it's because it's something I can still I feel like I can do without worrying about breaking something at my age so I'm like you know what maybe I'll get a little arthritis but I can still do this at a decent level so it's an ego feeder I would say for me but was there anything for you that sort of triggered a competitive gene in you or I've definitely always been competitive I guess like even as a kid like I just wanted to be like the fastest runner in class or whatever little things like that. I swam a lot. That's good. But that's it as far as sports. So I don't know. Just this was definitely an outlet for that. That's good. And also just like Ryan and I playing together. We'd always like kind of compete against each other I guess. It's nice to have a competitive edge with your significant other. Something to, it kind of keeps your brain active and kind of, you know, it's good. I always tell my wife, let's break out the Mario Kart. Let's go. Yeah. See, I'm competitive with stuff like that, too.
    44:07
    Nice. Well, Hadi and I watch a lot of tournament footage. You know, obviously you make it to the finals a lot. Would you say that, or how do you say you handle pressure and nerves and being in those kind of high pressure situations like when you're in do i um like even still like for like small local things like the first couple of games like i'll be up there and then like all of a sudden my fingers are shaking um yeah i don't know i guess just like doubt is always i think my biggest hurdle so getting through that and reminding myself that i'm there for a reason, I guess, or that I earned it. Makes you feel alive.
    44:55
    You've been in those situations, so I'm sure everybody has doubts. I guarantee you even the top five players have moments like, oh, why'd this happen? Why'd the sling go that way and all that? It's not an easy thing to break, for sure. Do you have a preferred location that you've played in. So now I know you've been in Chicago, Cali, Washington. Is there a scene you sort of gravitate towards more? I know Washington is huge as far as number of players. I was surprised that it had the top number of players for the IFPA. So I would imagine it's amazing there. Chicago's the center of pinball and California's, I mean, I'm from California, so I'm not going to say anything bad about it, but California's California and it's probably got a lot of great locations.
    45:45
    Yeah. You know, there's different things I liked about each one, but right now, definitely Seattle. Yeah. It's my favorite. That's awesome. Do you have, like, a location there?
    45:57
    Huh? Do you have a favorite location? Icebox or? I like Icebox, yeah. I like that even if we're there all day for, like, one of the long germane tournaments, They have a really big patio, so you can kind of still feel like you went outside. You're inside playing pinball all day. You touch grass. Yeah. Yeah, I saw Ryan commentating on the last max match play. I think he sat down to ask Jermaine something, and then Jermaine left. He's like, well, I'm commentating now.
    46:29
    Yeah, it's good vibes over there. Yeah. How'd you do on that one? No comment? Okay, Joe, you're up. Leslie in the eight or so years that you've been playing competitively would you say that there's like a single event or a win that stands out to you
    46:51
    definitely getting second in women's worlds was one just because every single like match I made it pass. I'm just like, how is this happening?
    47:06
    And then once it was so close, I'm like, oh, this is it. This is the one in Tarion? Yeah. That was one. Winning Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show. Another good one.
    47:26
    Yeah. I don't know. There's also little things that stand out that I'm always just amazed at, I guess, after the fact. Do you ever remember your first tournament win?
    47:39
    I did win that first Bells and Chimes in Chicago. I remember then my friend was like, you got like 30-something points for that. And I'm like, what are points? Do you have a favorite trophy? Do you have a favorite trophy from one of those standout wins, or is that different?
    48:03
    My favorite trophy is this guy, and it's for Novice Division for Golden State Pinball Festival, fourth place. Nice. That's a pretty one. I like that. It's really pretty. Is that Flash, the playfield? Yeah. nice that's awesome um what would you say i think this is an important question for all players old and new um what do you think is the best piece of advice you've been given regarding competitive pinball whether it's nerves whether it's how to approach a pin you've never seen whether it's how to approach a complex rule set what do you think is the best piece of advice you've been given? To not be scared of the game, I guess, or not be scared to, like, take a shot, which I still get that way sometimes. But skill-wise, I mean, this advice wasn't specifically given to me, but something that stuck in my head is, I think Travis Murry talks about a lot, is, like how pinball is kind of like chess or like pool where you always have to think about like your next move so it's not just like getting on the flipper it's like thinking about what flipper you want it on and just always thinking in advance having those moves planned out I feel like that's helped I don't know just like it's like a good way to think about it I guess yeah it's it's easier in my head for sure like I'm like oh I'll get it on the right flipper and set it up and everything go BA okay and then it's on the left flipper and it's you know out the left out way I'm like oh well in my head I won um let's see how often do you play just for fun or like for practice uh going to tournaments is my practice so every Friday at icebox nice yeah even like at home we have two games. We don't play them that often.
    50:15
    We just got Volley, though, so we have been playing it. Because it's new. So is there $5 Volley in your household, or is there something else? We haven't done that yet, but we should. Whoever elusive cooks dinner.
    50:30
    Are there any pins that you sort of feel most in tune with, or game-specific strategies where you're super confident in? I know, obviously, ones that you've owned. I agree with you. It's really, I have these pins behind me, but life gets busy and I really get most of my practice either if I go on location or play in a tournament.
    50:51
    But are there ones you step up to and not to the point where you're like, oh yeah, I got this, but where you feel super comfortable with?
    51:01
    Definitely Jurassic Park. That's a good one to know. I know. It's just one of those where I have the script laid out and then I just do it. Yeah, I feel like in the past two years I've gotten, not like really good at that game, but I feel comfortable on it. You've made it your own basically. Yeah, and I'm going to have to watch you play it in a competition now because I want that script.
    51:30
    It always kills me. I've only done well on it once in a tournament and you know what to do, but it's such a stop and go Elwyn. It's kind of crazy. It plays different than his other flowy pins. Since starting eight years ago, you've climbed to number one in Open Women's. What is the one mindset shift or habit that you think has made the biggest difference?
    51:54
    Or is it just constantly playing and practicing? It was just constantly playing, but not only that, just like constantly competing. Yeah.
    52:07
    Because like I've met people that like play a lot, but they don't compete and then, and they're good. But then when it comes to compete, like, you know, it's just different. Like your nerves and thinking about the game differently, thinking about playing against opponents differently.
    52:25
    So yeah, when we first got into it, we just like competed so much. I still get nervous, but. I don't know. It's just like, like, I never think I'm like so good that I'm like going to blow up a game or something. But I know like how to win against opponents, I guess. Yeah. Do you since you've been competing, is there something that you've been sort of happy, surprised, happy with the way competitive pinball has grown for me? Like I'll give you an example. When I first started, I went to District 82 for the first time and I thought it was this mecca. And I still think it is. But I'm really happy with how many more opportunities there are to learn, earn a large amount of whoppers regionally. So not everybody has to fly into Milwaukee or Green Bay to get the opportunity for, you know, 50 to 60 whoppers in a tournament. Is there anything since you started eight years ago that you've been kind of happy with and seeing grow?
    53:23
    I mean, that's a good one. Thanks, Josh. All right. Making some changes. I'd say just like the growth of women in pinball is awesome. we're still a minority, but there's more of us, and a lot of us are really good.
    53:46
    Do you have anybody that you love competing against in the women's division? Is there some group of ladies or maybe one particular competitor you're like, yes! I mean, so many. I don't know. Women's tournaments, they just have a different vibe to them, and everyone's always really supportive. even if it's like for a world champion i don't know that's cool joe do you have any other questions i am all questioned out i think she's uh gone um yeah uh the last i guess do you have a uh a routine that you do like before you start playing especially like if you know you're going to be at like a venue like all day you have like uh i don't know some kind of like plan like a diet plan or something not a diet plan but like you know just like a meal that you like go to or like bowl of Wheaties um the biggest thing I could think of just for like a weekend of tournament is I always bring two pairs of shoes and just like switch off day to day I think that really helps um but also it's just so hard to get sleep at these things it is They're so long. And then when I get home to my hotel, I start watching the stream to see if I can find, like, there's a weird feed or something, anything that's going to help. So I, like, barely sleep at these things. It's exhausting.
    55:18
    Yeah, they are. I've learned that you don't, you know, one day, I didn't realize how long they went. The first tournament I went to, I was like, I told my wife and kids, oh, I'll be back in a few hours. It was like 10 hours, and I made the playoffs for one of the first times. I'm like, can I go home, please? I don't want to play anymore. This is too much. And then going to these big ones, you're right. They go until 11 or so, and then you've got to get to your hotel or Airbnb, and then it gets up. Like, you know, I kind of see what Ray Day is saying. You know, no more early starts. Like, can we get an 11 o'clock starting time? But, yeah. So thank you for answering our questions. It's been awesome hearing your insights and thoughts on how you grew into the competitive pinball scene. But we also have you here for another reason. We want to congratulate you. You are the 2025 Yegpin Women's Match Play Champion. So kudos to you.
    56:18
    You earned a lot of points there. And we want to kind of go over your final round with the other three competitors. So while we load that up, you want to kind of tell us, I know we talked about it a little, but the women's match play, what was the format as far as, was it a day of qualifying or was it just a set period or two days?
    56:39
    It was like a mega match play. Like we played 20 games in a short amount of time. And they tried to cut it down just because it was taking too long. that's right it got put to a vote and everyone still wanted to play what we were promised so in the end they just said okay no more practice which I thought was fine because a lot of us already played in the open so that was practice enough I totally agree it reminds me of the expo when it was like the brackets and it was like 4am Everyone's like, I can't blame you. I got a flight to catch. I was there. Yeah.
    57:27
    So the scoring was 4-2-1-0, and you had three games. You had the banks to choose from. So did you play this bank previously in the semis? I did. Okay. Yeah.
    57:44
    I had a buy, and then this was the first bank I chose. Okay. So you went straight to the semis or quarters, right?
    57:54
    For quarters. Okay. Quarters. Gotcha. Okay. So your opponents were Brianne Hunt, who I was actually in the Airbnb with, with Tommy Bernieri. She's a great player, a great person, fun to talk to. And she's got skills. She was laser focused. Zane Verweiss from Hot Nudge, a great player. And then Deborah Tallman, obviously another great player. So what made you choose this bank of John Wick Pro, Abracadabra, and Avatar?
    58:27
    Well, it's what I started out with. And I kind of do like to pick my favorites just off the shoot, just to, like, progress at least around.
    58:39
    Which, I don't know, some people save it for last. well so you could choose the same bank again you just couldn't pick it back to back okay so um but i played this bank earlier i liked it i did okay so i wanted to play it again um i mostly just didn't want to play jaws i mean that's your bank um i don't know just it was weird you had to choose a bank and then choose a starting game and then you just move to the right. Gotcha, that's right. And then the last game would have been a tiebreaker if we went to that, which was Robo War, which I like that game so. Yeah, that one, that Robo War was tough because I could not get up that left ramp unless it was rolling down. Like from a trap, it didn't have enough power to get the most important shot. Yeah, and then I didn't have to play it. All right. So the first game we have you on is John Wick Pro. So I like to let our guests talk about the strategy for what they think on John Wick Pro. In a nutshell, this was before the new code. I haven't played the new code, so I don't know. I know that there's some big changes, but the pro there is no briefcase. So you're just hitting that briefcase like stand up or target. So there's no giant protruding briefcase. And your skill shot would sometimes register. I saw a few of you trying to get it to register. But what is your strategy on John Wick?
    60:20
    So I played this in the open the day before, and I thought it played fine. So that's also why I chose it.
    60:29
    This game is so bad. usually I actually like to go for Winston for the red button I don't know the dance club I don't know I was so thrown off in this game and then I started going for car instead and it was just all bad I changed strategies it was no good I didn't know what I was doing Yeah, this one was like an out-of-body experience. So we're going to watch your first ball here. Yeah, we're going to watch your first ball here.
    61:08
    Yeah, so I was expecting to have a ball save. I mean, I break my shot, owning my drain. But I was just like, so like, wait, what just happened?
    61:20
    And yeah. Yeah, that was a missed shot to the left. And then it just went straight down the middle. Again, if you are listening to this podcast, I would strongly recommend you also check out the video form. It's on Spotify and YouTube at youtube.com slash Frisco Pinball. You can look for the Wizards and Warriors playlist because we are watching the footage. We'll do our best to do play by play, but it really is a better experience watching it. So you can kind of follow along with what we have. So there's the different multiballs, the hotel multiball, which is the consecrated. They were having a fun time on stream trying to figure out what that meant because they said it was consummated multiball, which is a whole different meaning and then there's also the car multi-ball where you i didn't realize you have to hit the spinner and yeah me either someone told me that after this and then i'm like okay so i started full plunging yeah yeah and that's like i think you changed your strategy because i didn't realize it activates the car i was like oh i just bashed the car and then i wouldn't see the car target activate i'm like the car is broken can i get a td They're like, no, you have to actually hit the... Exactly. Yeah.
    62:28
    Usually I would go for Winston if I didn't know how it worked. Joe, how would you approach John Wick? Yeah. I mean, I learned that also from watching this spot review about the spinner. I was like, I had no idea. Like, I thought you just had to hit the car. Yeah. But, yeah, no, I mean, the two bash toys on the top right of the play field, the car and the hotel, the captive ball, those are usually what I focus on first, just to kind of prep the multi-balls, and then after that I'll go for the crate to start a mode to get that stack going. Yeah, it's just crazy how this one played, because not only did you have the precision flippers, right, it was already super fast, and right now, so Leslie on her ball one, fortunately, if you're watching the footage, she did not have a good one, But that's okay because we have a happy ending here. Not on this game. But we had Leslie get a house ball short plunge, and then Breanne steps up. She bashed her car into the suitcase to prep her mode start, started her blue mode, which was gather intel, and had a really good ball to prep all of her multi balls, which will come into play on ball two because she does have a really solid ball. So I know on John Wick from this code I would always try to get that yellow mode, which was assassination I think. Is that something you've seen, Leslie?
    63:54
    I don't really know what the different modes are, but I know the yellow one's good, or it was at some point Yeah, from what I understand That's what I think I'm leading into is I know that the shots change your mode, correct? Like you hit a certain shot, and then that's what your mode is choosing. We just saw Jane there make a big move. On competition, it starts one, though. Huh? Or am I wrong?
    64:25
    On competition, doesn't it just, like, start one? Oh, does it? Okay, you could be right. I'll go with what you – That sounds familiar That sounds right So Jane hits a couple ramps Unfortunately her big move right there gets a nudge but it goes straight down the middle So the scores are right now 20K for Leslie 4 million for Breanne Jane has 85K. And Debra's going to step up and kind of experience the same sort of pain that players 1, 2, and now 4 will. Debra, always fun to watch. She's always animated and having a good time. And it kind of brings me back to that answer you gave where the women's events are super supportive because I always see them clapping for each other, cheering each other on. You know, it is competition, but at the same time, it's nice to have that camaraderie. So we'll watch Debra's short plunge here. And, again, what we noticed during the review of the stream was that the short plunge didn't always give the skill shot. So there was one, I think she gets it here, it gives it to her. If that suitcase opens up, it didn't. So she has 120 points. She gets her left ramp, and then boom, she goes for the right ramp and right down the middle. So that's John Wick ball one. Your ball two, you did start a mode.
    65:44
    Let's get to it. You were in heist. You started heist, and you kept bashing the car to try and get that multi-ball prep. You missed. There was a dead bounce here. I think I totally understand why you had the read you did, because it looked like it was going to bounce from the top of the left flipper. I think that's where it was. I think it's right here. No, it's coming up soon.
    66:11
    Yeah, it was like it was one of those. It looked like it was supposed to be that dead bounce. But for whatever reason, it just didn't didn't bounce the same way. Do you remember that at all? yeah a little bit i just thought yeah i thought it was gonna be a little closer to the front it looked it looked like it had enough speed to bounce and it just like died i don't i don't know what the deal was with that one but also also shorter flipper too right so probably it just like barely hit the tip of the flipper that just went down yeah also i think i I started full plunging to, like, get those car spins. Yeah. And I had a ball save that ball, even without a skill shot. Yeah, the ball save was randomly activating because I think it was Jane or, yeah, Jane made a big move and her ball save was still active on this ball. So you're sitting there like, wait a minute, I didn't get the skill shot, but it still gave me the ball save. So it must have been something in the competition mode where it's like, okay, I guess you get the ball save. I was really confused this whole game.
    67:23
    I think, like, later for ball three, I also have a ball save. And at that point, since, like, everyone except Breanne had a pretty poor game, it's, like, that, like, stern, like, ball time. Yeah. I think that's what it was. But I don't know. It's, like, pity time.
    67:44
    Yeah. or you're owed a certain amount of time in playing it. So what are your thoughts going into ball three after seeing your score? I know it's John Wick. You expect low scores. Three of your other competitors are kind of like doing the same as you. Only one person is really blowing it up, and this is where Breanne blows it up. Yeah, Breanne has an amazing ball. So after this, I'm just like, okay, well, I'm not going to catch Breanne. I mean, if I did, that'd be awesome, but just not. Just not. But looking at my opponent's scores, I'm like, well, I mean, second's still good. Yeah. I mean, you've got to get as many points. I'm not out of it. Yeah. So I'm going to play the video here because Breanne has a really good save. And they give you more points. Sweet. So now she's, I think she's got enemies for you, so you have to hit the shots one last time before they're worth. It's coming up.
    68:43
    It's a little hairy. No, that's smart. She was playing. Oh, my goodness. She was in my group the round before this, and she swept that round. She was just really seeing the ball, and she was fighting. Yeah, this John Wick, her John Wick game was just excellent because I don't know what the high scores were, but this had to be close to at least I would hope top ten just based on how she was playing. So she has a really good ball, too. He started her car multiball during her mode Hit lights out during multiball Do you know what Lights out activates on John Wick? Just turns the playfield dark and then You're like gonna It's multiplied right? Or something I think if you hit the shots that are active While you're While the lights are out They're multiplied then But you have to remember which shots you have to hit Right? Is that it? Yeah I just kind of hit everything When I'm at that point and I just try to like light another set of lights or whatever so that when I come out of it I have another one gotcha how do you activate lights out you know it's the lower um in lanes okay gotcha and the top light has to be lit to activate the lower one so you have to kind of a lot of fancy flipper work. You got to finagle it. Yeah, she started her TASCA crew, gets her save, car multiball during her mode, lights out during multiball, grabs the extra ball, I forgot what it was worth, collected all her allies and ends lights out with $52 million. It was a really good ball for her. She finishes with $106 million. Yeah, this should have been a top five score, I feel like. So we get Jane coming up And I want to see this ball save on her thing Because she makes a big move So her ball save is active right now And I think she makes her move It's coming up maybe here It wasn't a long ball Because she only A little bit So she's got her double danger there But she gets her couple flips And then after that it goes Straight down the middle She ends up with 779K after, and she couldn't make a move there because she had already had her two dangers. So you're looking at the scores, just like you said, after ball two. You're probably not catching Brienne unless you have, you know, a god ball where you get everything just going working. I'm assuming you'd have to even get to the boss mode, the adversaries, to really start putting on some scores. So Debra comes up. She hits the skill shot, which I said others weren't able to do. So she's going to, you know, take her time right here. I want people to watch this on the stream because there is, or on the podcast. So she's looking at her music. I'm going to give her a couple seconds here and talk over her about it. But it's crazy because the skill shot itself, everybody knows the short plunge. It's kind of like with Labyrinth. You can always get that one constant skill shot. But people, you and the others, she goes far, too, and it gives her the briefcase. So 150K is nothing to sneeze at. So then we get to the end of her ball, and she ends up – she gets one lock ball for the consecrated multi-ball, but she hits the car once and ends up in the right out lane. So right now it's 1.9 million. You are stepping up. You full plunge, get your spins, and, you know, you've got your lock lit. You're trying to go for that center. What do you remember on ball three now? So you'll see me shaking my head. Every time I drain and have the ball save I'm like so used to short plunging That as soon as I did it I'm like I should have full plunged and gotten more spins What am I doing and then I do it again Like what am I doing Oh no But it's one of those things where you're in the moment But you do get your spins there And then unfortunately you get the little flipper hop Like I deserved that Terrible It didn't end up to be the worst result Because It's not that you got saved But the scores were so close Between three and four You know Breanne comes up and she has It's funny she starts her Deconsecrated hits a few jackpots And ends up with I think she was 110 million So you know she's sitting in the driver's seat She's looking good And then Jane steps up She was at 779 So she's only a million away from you she gets two big moves early, and she has to start playing with the lightest flippers ever. And I know that feeling because you're sitting there, you're, like, trying not to move the flippers too much, afraid that you'll flip tilt for some reason. Yeah, play with your pinkies. Yeah, exactly. So she's already at 1.5, and were you watching her bonus countdown?
    73:54
    The scores are really small, so I couldn't really see them. I just kind of assumed that she passed me, but then I was told otherwise.
    74:04
    Yeah, there's her double danger, and then she can't really do anything here. And she just needed, like, I don't even know what would get you the extra points that she needed, because it was so small. She gets a couple slings there. I'm assuming, like, one lit shot would have done it. Yeah, because she's in a mode. She starts the assassination mode, so it probably would have been, like, one mode shot. Yeah, because she's looking here. She's like, you've got to be kidding. And she had the 2X.
    74:35
    70K. Well, hey, it comes out to really help because Debra then steps up, checks with the TD about the skill shot not registering. You can see her asking there. And I totally get it. But at that point, because it's ball three, I mean, the ruling has to be play on, right? I mean, not necessarily. No, really. We all could have asked for a ruling. We just didn't. Gotcha. She's the one who did. I'm saying at this point, when she asked for it, the TD would probably rule play on no matter what, correct? Because it came with her as player four, ball three?
    75:12
    I don't know. What are the other rulings? Because I've never TD'd, so Joe, you've TD'd. If it's just a little skill shot, then yeah, I'd probably just play on. But I don't think, like, the fact that she's player four and it's ball three should have really anything to do with it. Okay. Right.
    75:30
    We didn't have a ruling. She did. Yeah, that's true. What is the other – what is another ruling you could make then? Throw the game out or start – No.
    75:42
    All right. So, Debra ends up with $1.9 million. So after game one, it's Brianne with four, Debra with two, Leslie with one, Jane with zero. That is John Wick Pro. So the next game that we go to is Abracadabra. So why don't you tell us, since you have been the previous owner of one, what your strategy is on Abracadabra?
    76:10
    You want to build that bonus up. So, yeah, the one, two, three, four will do it. And that's from top lanes or bottom lanes. and then you just are sniping those targets.
    76:23
    Clearing the drops will also increase that bonus, and that carries ball to ball. Okay. That's it. Really simple. Were you shooting – did you have a strategy of trying to shoot the one and the four from the bottom flippers, or was shot seeing an option to try and get them? Well, I did not try that. Okay. No, it was just – you can, like, hit it, yeah, back up top. from the bottom flippers.
    76:52
    Like a backhand will do it. But I don't think I was really doing that. I don't remember. That's okay. The flippers were really funny. Yeah, you can see it right now.
    77:08
    It's drooping as it is. If you're watching the footage, if you're looking at the left flipper, It's basically pointing straight, almost straight down south It's looking like a 45 degree angle versus the other flipper So we had to get a tech come and work on it Eventually they fix it We're going through all the footage I was really nervous here Because I specifically chose this bank that I like abracadabra In another bank there's Wizard Like the bank that was next to this which is the same play field, completely different roles. Yeah. This confused me because when I was watching you guys play it, I was like, wait a minute, I played this, and that was Wizard. I played Wizard, not this one. And that had the wows and the knocker sound.
    77:57
    So I was really nervous that this was going to get thrown out, and they would have just been like, oh, just play Wizard. And it's like, I don't want to play Wizard. I'm going to play Africa Deborah. It's not the same.
    78:09
    But thankfully they fixed it. Yeah. The techs were great at Yagpin. Did you play that other bank? With Wizard?
    78:20
    Not in this, but I played Wizard in the Open, I think. Okay, yeah, because I think it was Foo Fighters and another pin with it, because I definitely played that bank. And that was the bank that the main Open had. They had Wizard and ended up on the tiebreaker on Warlock with Belsito and Gregory Kennedy. So we've got you on ball one. You're starting your abracadabra. You cleared the 1, 2, 3, 4. Your drop value ends up at 2K on the lit drop, so you're at 11,710. And this is a ball that is a statement ball, ball two.
    78:58
    You are, again, so clearing the drops, one set of drops or all of them will increase that bonus value in the middle? Once you reset the drops. So you have to hit that center target as well. Okay. So 1, 2, 3, 4, do those reset after you've hit them?
    79:16
    Mm-hmm. Okay. So 1, 2, 3, 4 will increase it, and then clearing the drops, and then the center will increase it. And the drops, the lit drop is worth the lit value, correct? Yes, the bonus value. Gotcha. So we're here right now. You're at, it looks like 2,000 because it goes up to 5, correct? Is there any other way to earn that lit value other than the lit drops and the center target, right? the outline. Okay. Nice. Joe, have you played Abracadabra?
    79:49
    You know, I can't say that I have. I mean, if I had, it probably would have been just casually. I don't think I've played it in competition. Gotcha. Do you remember a lot about this ball? This was, and the reason I say it's a statement ball is because by the time we get to the score, you'll see why. Yeah.
    80:09
    I was just feeling it. Yeah, you were in the zone. yeah um that left flipper is still like it wasn't like drooping drooping anymore but it did go up really high it was just really easy to like catch everything also i think it was like kind of leaning to the left so it was just like always easy to just like get it on that flipper yeah there were moments where uh i think the ball was rolling down and it came to a stop for you But I think other competitors tried the same thing I don't know if they were watching And it wasn't stopping It was just going down And they had to flip it away And then there were feeds from that one and two lane I think it happened to Jane Where it was just like it came down to one nicely for you But for whatever reason It just kept finding the center drain For other competitors But yeah you're already at 5k here You maxed out all your lit targets So once you're at five It's carrying over like you said So you're on ball two. Right now you're at 62,700. Your lit drop is still available on the right. And yeah, boom, picks it off right there for another 5K. What was going through your head? Did you see your score at all during this ball? I did. When I played this in the first round, I think I won with 60 something.
    81:33
    So I don't know. I was just feeling good. I'm like, well, it's only ball two and I'm already here. Yeah.
    81:39
    Okay, this is a good start, basically. Does that change your mindset at all about how you approach or you just play the ball the same way that you just did?
    81:49
    What's up? You froze for a sec. Sorry. So after you get a score like that, do you change anything in your approach? I know you're only on ball two, or do you just play like you were playing previously? play? I think I start to relax a little more, which sometimes isn't good. Not in a give-up way, but like, I don't know, you just get a little more loosey-goosey. I don't know. All I can do is hit drops, really. Yeah, it'd be easier to ask you this on like a stern with a more complex rules that there's not much else you can do here but I did notice um you had some amazing flipper skills and I think you were and what I'm pointing to is like you were bashing the target the ball away you weren't sort of trying any any uh fancy moves you were just like you know what get it out of here and send it up because I'm already at five might as well just try to keep it up top all day as I can yeah and just like you kind of always have to keep a mental note of where the like lit target is yeah it's like the slings will change it i think the pops change it so just like if it's at the top and you hit a sling you know it's going to be the second one down i don't know i really look down at the flippers when i'm playing so if i just know like oh it's the second from the top then i don't know just like always knowing where the light is do you when you're looking at the flippers you always memorize the spots where you think kind of that's where the shot is? Okay. I know some players... It's just like in the back of my mind, I guess. Yeah, because I know some players they'll look down quick, but then they'll look up to kind of see where it is, but I know you really have to figure out, memorize where on the flipper the shot is, but amazing. I mean, everybody's clapping there, and for good reason. You end up with 117,480.
    83:50
    You kind of had a house ball on that last ball, which is okay. But yeah, that was an amazing, amazing game. So for your lit pops that are a thousand, those are random, right? The switches just like switches. We'll turn them on and off. Okay. I was going to ask if you ever intentionally went for them when they're on, cause they are, I'm a thousands, a thousand, but at the same time, you're probably not getting a lot of rebounds unless you can get it to like the left or right of it. yeah I don't really aim for the puff I mean the game is the drop so I figured I'd ask so game one or game two your round is done 117-480 you're probably feeling good because you've seen the scores before like you said did you test the tilt on this I don't think I did okay or maybe I did when I played it the first round I don't remember It's Tilton's game here and obviously You gotta play gingerly so Breanne steps up Her ball won Not too eventful I know She was kicking herself a little during This At least through the first four balls So her first ball just Kind of I feel like everybody's owed a house ball or two On these older games you're gonna Get them And so she goes in she has her first ball one. It's 44-10, so not the start that she wanted. She picked out some drops in the lanes. On ball two, she gets a rough little bounce off the left out lane after shooting it up top. I actually kind of want to see that because, let me see, it was 10-0-3-0, so it's a little bit before here. So some of the feeds, I was kind of noticing it before, so here it is, and then it comes right back out. Are you moving it if you're in that position, or you just kind of let it go? I think I would try to move it so it hits more of the top of the pop. Okay. Are you more comfortable nudging up or side to side?
    85:55
    For this game, up. Okay. Just because, like, also the slings up top, I don't know, sometimes they go, like, back and forth a lot, and you just want to break that rhythm, I guess.
    86:09
    I don't know. Up. It's hard to make this A complex Questionnaire I try to think as much as I can Joe, do you have any As you're watching this, are you seeing anything Intriguing? I should say Yeah, no, it's Older EM games, I feel like It's more chaotic With the side-to-side action Sometimes it's a good thing, right? Yeah
    86:40
    But yeah, nudging up is always, I feel like, pretty comfortable, especially when it's got those weird kind of in lanes. It's got like the rubber kind of separating the two lanes, and then you've got just kind of rails on the out lanes.
    86:59
    And no like real slings down below. It's just like walls. The walls of doom. Do you like when they have banks full of old, mid, and modern? Or do you like kind of one-on-one? Or what's your preferred, I guess, bank grouping?
    87:20
    I like older games, I think. I don't know. I feel like a lot of the new students, I just don't have the patience for. I'll wait for someone to tell me what to do, clearly. Like my John Wick name.
    87:36
    It is a lot to memorize I know I talked with And he was telling me And there was another dad I think it was Greg Kennedy's dad Nick And he was saying like they have group chats And they're always talking and dissecting The rules I'm like ain't nobody got time for that I got a job Not that they don't have jobs But kids when you get older The responsibilities pile up But kudos to them for Finding those exploits I'm always super impressed and amazed what they can come up with. Seeing top players like yourself sort of figure out what the script is, like you said with Jurassic Park, it's always interesting to me. It's one of the things I love about competitive pinball. That's why I kind of love doing this with Joe and talking about it, because there's so much to learn in it.
    88:27
    And I don't know. I feel like it's a good thing to keep your brain active. Do you like studying the rules of I don't want to say moderns because I know you just said it.
    88:41
    But, like, the mid... I mean, for, like, tournaments, I will, like, look at the game list and look up any games that I'm not familiar with or try to watch some, like, footage of other people playing. I think that really helps. Do you have, like, a notebook that you keep, or is it just all in your head? Like, do you... Or do you just use pen tips? I never end up looking at it.
    89:05
    So maybe the act of typing it out makes it stick. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, that's a true thing. Like when people study for exams and stuff, writing it out helps them absorb it somehow. I know we all tend to rush to flip pin tips if we haven't seen something, but I feel like there's probably not a lot of pins you haven't seen, right? Is there something you can recognize that you can remember that you haven't played yet? Yeah, it's getting harder to find something I haven't played And even, I mean, I don't remember everything But usually once I flip around, I'm like, oh yeah, I know this is what I'm supposed to do Okay, it's coming back to me I mean, all of us haven't played circus in a tournament, so that's like the one I did The one Richie has?
    89:55
    He has one? Oh boy, I haven't played that Bring it out Richie, I'm coming to NWPC I want to see it So that was player two As we talked, Breanne Hunt She had a great ball five She was at Just to show, she was at 32 370 on ball four Or going into ball five She ended up clearing her right drop So to go from this to her final score of 74,000 is not easy. So you had a great ball, too, where you gained about 60K overall, which is what some people do in a whole game or less. And she ended up getting about 42K on her ball five. Just some amazing moves. She ended up, like I said, clearing her drops up to about 3K. I don't think she went over that, but she just was picking them off left and right. nailed the center target to make her furious comeback to get a really good score because she's going to need as many points going winning game one is a great you know head start but you also don't want to I've done this plenty of times be fit and get the zero and then it's kind of like well back to square one so she ends up with this ball five helping solidify Her standing From the game one So like I said she has a great ball five She ends up at 74k so we get to Jane and I don't think Jane was having the final she Wanted because It was checking the Flipper as you can see there She's like hey can you please check this because it looks like It's drooping again And so The TD came over And I think they said play on And they looked at it, and then they made her play on. So her ball won. Quickly cleared her two and four up there. I believe the one, two, and four. Yeah, so she was that.
    92:02
    She had some really good clears. I thought this was a great start, but unfortunately it came. She had this angle that was just nasty, and it was right there. Straight down, you know, not straight down the middle, but off to the side. So she ends up. Yeah. That's why. When I was watching your game versus other players, I was like, the feeds you were getting up that they were like unearned, but they were definitely a little more side-to-side action, which kept you out of the middle, which can happen on these older titles.
    92:37
    So her ball two, she ends up with $11,550. Her drop value was at $2K by ball three. And he finishes ball three with 20,240 So going into ball four, she's got to make some room She unfortunately doesn't get the plunge there Were you watching, Jane? So after you go on first player on an EM It was nice during qualifying Because we could go then play Classics entries in the main If you were on an EM Were you still watching the finals during this? Or were you doing something else? I was in the audience watching yeah just like kind of keeping my eye on it not like dressing over it just because I felt pretty good about my game so yeah yeah no it was it was great I mean to get to roll it first of all I feel like if you roll an EM you should feel really good except for wizard because you can get the 200k really quick once I heard those knocks I was I got, I don't know, 170 something. Then I was like, okay, this guy's on ball five. He's at like 60. I should be okay. And then I turned around and I heard like a bunch of knocks. I'm like, oh, come on.
    93:58
    That's why I did not want to play it. I'm like, it could be really good or really bad. Yeah. Especially if you, you know, you do all the things, but you don't hit the couple targets that you need. It's like, well, I did all that work for nothing. So, yeah. Unfortunately for Jane She had a quick straight down the middle right there And it was 24-270 So that's a tough score to come back from She had a zero in the first game So she's hoping that she at least grabs the one So Debra will come up House ball, ball one She had Is she still practicing here? No, yeah she was So here's ball one That's how it goes for a lot of people On two of the five balls So she's at 500 points. Ball two, she clears her one and three lanes, shoots through the one.
    94:50
    Top gets her two, shoots the right at the four to increase. By ball three, she's at 2K. I feel like you should be trying to get at least 1,000 on the bonus value per ball, right? That sound fair? I mean, yeah, you just want to build it as fast as you can, really. so whether that is quick drops or the numbers I mean obviously the numbers is easier. Yeah I was going to say which one is the more dangerous option obviously shooting 10 drops Yeah the drops is just more work and then sometimes you can never find that reset in the center so yeah. Did you were you able to find it I don't want to say easily but I was I think I like hit it right off the bat as soon as I needed to. But it was from that left flipper, which was like this. So I was just like, well, it is straight up.
    95:49
    Let's go. Onward and upward. So Debra here is on her ball four. She had 25,620 going into ball four. She got a rebound to the center stand, which was great because that was her reset. It's always nice when you get those kind bounces. especially if you can't find the center stand-up. Slow roller to straight down the middle, and then she ends up with 44-5-6-0 after ball four. Ball five, she hit one lit drop, and there it is, 53-2-5-0. After two games, we have Leslie taking first here, so she had one point from before. That gives her five. Breanne had four and two. She was second. Sixth, Debra had a second and third, three, and Jane. Unfortunately, it's out of contention at this point with zero, but you can still play for prize money and standing and whoppers.
    96:49
    I sure it a disclosure What did you win as far as the prize It was that awesome trophy and then there was cash too correct There was Okay A good sum You don't have to give the amount, but were you happy with the amount? Yeah, that was fine.
    97:06
    It was like traveling to make a living, or I'm not. So it's just kind of nice to help pay for travel and whatnot. That's awesome. But it is Canadian, so once you get back here and cash it, it's less. Yeah. That was the gift and the curse. When we got there, I was like, we went to eat, me and Tommy, and I was like, oh, that's not bad, $20 for a burger. And then I remembered, oh, it's Canadian. It's even better. So it's like, but with prize money, yeah, it definitely hurts. So through two, again, Breanne in first, Leslie in second, Deborah in third, Jane in fourth. You have Avatar as your third and final game. what are your thoughts on avatar and what is your strategy um so i think the only time i've really played this was at width last year um but i really like this game i don't know it just like the slippers felt nice a lot of people really struggled with it i think in like maine also um i don't know like the pops never killed me, really. Yeah, that was key because the feed from the pops is so deadly. Yeah. Yeah, I think they were, like, drawing on the screen at some point, like, all the ways you can drink.
    98:27
    I don't know. This game just felt really good for me. And I found the link shot, so just kind of hitting that a lot. So what's your strategy? So there are two multiballs that you know of, right? The link, which is on the top left, but it's sort of got that, like, fork. And you're supposed to shoot it up there and lock a ball to make it a captive ball? Mm-hmm. And then what's the other multi-ball?
    98:52
    The cap suit. Okay. Yeah, which I'm less familiar with. So I think that one is bash it until, like, there's an opening, and then you can hit it up there. Did you know about anything else going on with the pin as far as, like, banshees or double scoring? I know the shot multiplier from completing the top lanes so I wanted to get that on link so that my jackpots are worth more that's really all I know that's a good amount because that was kind of the key to success here and what's funny is I didn't realize I thought it was just I thought the rollovers up top were just the bonus multiplier. I didn't realize there's a shot multiplier as well. It reminds me of Batman 66 with the Commissioner Gordon shot, and then you can place it wherever you'd like. And so it's a really smart strategy that you did to lock the ball into Link, but put that shot multiplier there because that's going to be your jackpot shot. And there's nothing better than a jackpot than a multiplied jackpot. Joe, what do you know about Avatar?
    100:08
    Yeah, I think I remember playing it in the same copy from Whipped and Pinberg last year. It's a tough tournament game. Especially, it looks like it was set up pretty difficult. The tilt looked relatively tight.
    100:27
    And I can't tell if those are, I'm assuming they're smaller lightning flippers installed in the game. But, I mean, my go-to is usually just hitting that link shot just because it's, you know, relatively quick to get to multivol.
    100:42
    Yeah, it did seem like it wasn't as tough a task as trying to get to Amstu. But we're going to go to your ball one eventually. And what I noticed is I think Breanne eventually at the end was short plunging because it was just absolute death from the pop. So if you're not watching the video, again, I strongly recommend you do. youtube.com slash riscopinball. Look at the video. We'll also have the video format on Spotify. But the feed from the pops, if you'll look during this footage, it'll hit and everybody, it sort of kind of hits the, does it hit the left? I feel like it hits the left and it goes straight down the middle. Or maybe it's the right, but it's so dangerous every time you plunge up there because there's no ball save. You get your skill shot, but there's still no, you know, grace on any ball save. So you can see Leslie making a nice move there on her ball one, half-ramped it on the banshee shot. And I did see I think it was Jane. Somebody was trying to banshee out. Because you can get good points from that, especially if the scores are super low.
    101:46
    Yeah, I think at Pinbird last year, some people were just hitting the orbits all day, too. Yeah. I feel like I saw Zoller do that once. Maybe Jason did that. But here you are. You're going up top. You locked your link ball and then now all your shots are blinking for your multiplier and then bang right there. Beautiful shot. Link multipliers at 2x. And so here you're thinking start multi-ball.
    102:16
    So there it is. You start your link multi-ball. You lock your ball during link multi-ball. So is there this is a two ball.
    102:27
    Yes, and then you lock a ball. And then there's another one? Yeah. Okay, so I was going to try to figure out how you get the second ball once you lock it. I feel like that's your add-a-ball.
    102:42
    There is like another add-a-ball too with the mystery, but I don't know how that works. Gotcha. And so did you feel comfortable now that you started Link more here than you did on prior times when you played this in the open or qualifying?
    103:02
    Yeah, I was just mostly really happy that I got my multiplier at the right spot. Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, this game just, like, felt nice for me. Was this your best score on Avatar during the whole time at Yagpin? Or did you do better? No. No, I had a better game. I think in open qualifying. Gotcha.
    103:26
    Yeah, so here you are. You're already at 5.5 million. And for people that are watching and listening, you'll see what the scores normally are for Ball 1. But Leslie has started. you were bashing your amp suit and then you just got your second link lock eventually after getting and your shot is still multiplied on link and also it looks like the right orbit on the spinner so it looks like you've got two shots that are multiplied but really good ball one what's going through your head after this I'm feeling pretty confident with that score even though it's not that big just from playing it the open and seeing the scores there, playing in the earlier round and seeing my opponent's scores. I knew that was okay. I knew it wasn't going to be last or anything. Did you talk to any of your competitors about this before you stepped up? Did you talk to Breanne, Jane, or Debra about Avatar, or were you all just kind of...
    104:29
    No, we were all kind of sitting separate. Staying in your zone. Yeah, I get it. I totally get it. yeah so Brienne is up she survived the pops but then it goes right down and that's it it's 5.50 for her Jane will step up and I want to show Jane's ball because I want to give an example of the feed from the pops so Jane was also at the same time doing best card qualifying or playoffs right yeah yeah so kudos to her for like multitasking so there's her big move and she had to do it because of that feed from where it came from and so she is going to try for the link it looks like everybody was looking at that strategy but here's her backhand it's coming up eventually but she tried to backhand link so she's flipping it away and traps up here and again these are lightning flippers, so it's already hard enough to get control. She did the post pass.
    105:36
    I feel like, we'll see in the footage later on, she was going for that ramp because she thought maybe Banshee would give her a nice score. She got her ball locked there. It bounces out and then there's her left out lane. She did get her ball locked. Is it a virtual lock? I locked Oh, yours was in there. Yeah, okay.
    106:02
    Oh, that's interesting. So if you hit it, it's just going to come right back and you don't get the plunge.
    106:10
    Is that a good... Where would you rather be? With the plunge or with the virtual lock? Well, I wanted the top lane for the multiplier.
    106:21
    Yeah. How about you, Joe? Would you want the virtual lock or the plunge? I think that's the right answer. the shot multiplier is nice right add another one so after ball one you see everybody score what are you thinking feeling pretty good and I knew like I had made progress towards my next link so that was all that was in my head got a smile on your face in the footage You're telling somebody to stop bothering me No, I'm just kidding So you got Yeah, you got your ball too So again, you had seven and a half Million going into The ball too, so you get You get control, you get a couple flips Here and then I think That's kind of what I feel like Most people would expect After getting a couple shots if you miss it So you had your right out lane after the flips, but, again, 8.4 million, and the next person closest to you is 1 million. So we got Breanne stepping up. She does get a few flips here. She is trying to go for Link, I believe, and there's that feed from the pops, and she has, unfortunately, a little misread there because she shot the Link and it was like dribbling off her left flipper and then it just sort of sank. I feel like the worst way to drain for me is your in lane to out lane. Do you have a most hated way to drain?
    108:03
    Definitely fumbling. Yeah. This shouldn't happen. You make big moves. The lead I hate is like the one Jane got earlier where it's like coming in the middle like at an angle. Yeah. no one gets me do you make big moves with the pins like are you a big nudger yeah um maybe at the wrong times like for my other games that were on stream in the semi finals there was a couple of tilts in there that were definitely unnecessary and they cost me so was it on abracadabra No, it was on Shadow. Oh, okay, gotcha. I lost my mode bonus. Oh, yeah. That was bad. And then a really dumb Hoops one.
    108:58
    Yeah, Hoops is a tough one because there's so much that can, especially on ball three, like you could lose your basket bonus as well. Yeah, basically it was ball one and it was like a nothing ball, but I'm just like, why did I do that? Yeah, yeah. Where did you learn to nudge? Did you just practice? Because that's one thing I'll say I'm struggling with is the right timing of it. You'll watch Abe Flips' trailer for that Kickstarter that he did, and you have Johannes nudging, and it shows how when he nudges as it hits the sling, it affects where it's going. Most of the time I'm like, oh, it's on the sling. I'll be okay.
    109:39
    Where did you learn to nudge? Lots of practice and also just watching people. and kind of mimic what they do, I guess.
    109:50
    But, yeah, when I talked about being on a team when we first got into pinball, I was the worst on the team. And then Ryan and I started practicing a lot. So he helped me. I don't know, just having a buddy. Yeah, and shout out to Ryan because he's a great player too. I was very happy to meet him for the first time. And he was crushing it. I was, like, watching his qualifying in Maine. I was like, where did he go? And he was like all the way at the top. I'm like, hey, we were next to each other a second ago. And he was doing great. Did he have a good time at Yankton? He did. I'm really glad he came. Yeah, me too.
    110:26
    What about you, Joe? Where did you learn to nudge? Because I know you're a great player too, and you know more than me how to nudge. Oh, gosh. I mean, yeah, it's just a lot of, like Leslie said, a lot of practice.
    110:40
    Just shout out Matthew Richardson. We traveled together to the Beast, I think it was last summer, and he was watching me play. I think it was on Elton John, and he was like, hey, you're nudging wrong. What do you mean? He was like, yeah, like you're nudging. Like when the ball would go to the out lanes, like I think I was kind of nudging it so the ball would actually move more out into the out lane. So he kind of had me correct that, and that's been super helpful. That's awesome. Yeah, MJRP, no Shout out Alright, so Thank you for answering those questions, I appreciate that I figured we'd give a little interlude On some action here, so Ball two, Breanne had 1.4 million, ball three, Jane Super quick and unfortunate Bounces there, 1.75 million Though, and then Debra Started her link multi-ball And got her quick multi-ball as the ball Saved last five seconds in this basically, ends up with $3.8 million. So after ball two, are you looking at Debra as your closest competition, obviously, because she's halfway to you?
    111:51
    I don't think I was thinking about that. Okay. I just knew I had to, like, win or have at least one placement better than Breanne for a tiebreaker. So that's kind of what I was mostly focused on. Yeah. Luckily, the four in the last game helped the math a lot. And I think at the end, the only person that could have forced the tiebreaker was Debra. Because if she had passed you, you would get the four to seven, you would get the two to seven, and then you'd play.
    112:22
    What was it? Robo War was going to be your tiebreaker? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So here you are, ball three. You know, happy thoughts in your head.
    112:32
    Get your skill shot here for 300K, which is nice. your, oh, so the multiplied shots don't carry over?
    112:42
    No. Okay. They'll go away. That sucks. I thought they carried over. Okay. But great drop catch out of the pops. I kind of want to see that again because it was really good. If you want to see an example of a drop catch, let's watch it here. Nice. Really good catch. And you're flipping. in, you made two big, or excuse me, you tried to go for Link, I think right here, and then that's where it cost you, but it also cost everybody else. But you say something there, you breathe a sigh of relief. What are you telling yourself there? You're like, nine million? This is all I can ask for? Yeah, I think at that point, I still thought it'd be enough. So I wasn't too nervous until Debra stopped. and I'm like wait there's a three way time maybe and she can do it. Yeah that's right because if Brianne gets third it would be 7-7-7. Yeah.
    113:45
    And then Brianne starts a multi-ball here too and then that's why I started questioning like wait maybe that's not enough. Yeah she short plunged here and then she was going for her link multiball, which again, de facto strategy here. But you see her short plunging because she doesn't trust the pops.
    114:09
    So she's going to have to make, luckily there was a ball saver there. I thought it was gone because I saw that light go out and I was like, uh-oh. But she does eventually make two big moves. But as you pointed out, she does get to start her link multiball. So there's one hit, and then she's going to dead bounce, and I believe she gets her second hit here. Yeah, right there. So she starts it, but there's her move. However, luckily, right on cue, she starts her link multi-ball. So in link, it looks like it gives you a number of jackpots to hit. So 15, does that sound right? Or is that the timer? No, that's the timer. That's got to be the timer, right? Yes That's right I think it was like five shots Yeah I don't think it's 15 that would be wild But she starts her link Unfortunately ends quickly for her It sucks because it's a two ball multi ball And then you're also You're also blessed In quotes with a short ball save On the multi ball like it ended fast Yeah And we'll watch Jane's ball here because I do want to give an example of the Banshee shots. Did you try any ramps in your other games on this, in other rounds? No.
    115:33
    It felt like there was – she didn't have to have it rolling down. Like, she could make it from a trap. She tried backhanding Link there. It's a nice little tip over, but – well, so here she is from a cradle.
    115:47
    And then she – I think she realized, you know what, I have the shot down maybe. and I don't know, I saw her going for a Banshee and then there was. So maybe she only got a couple. But she got a good move, single danger off one good move, but she ended up with 2.9 so not enough to pass Breanne. So the tiebreaker is a real possibility here. Were you still watching or did you walk away or were you like... No, I was watching.
    116:16
    Do you, I don't want to say nerves, but do you kind of get like, oh, where's this ball going? When's she going to start?
    116:26
    I don't know. Nothing like negative like that. Not negative, but in your head like, what does she have left? What's her outs? Yeah, I guess like looking at like what's available to her, I guess. Or like she could go for this and that could be worth this, you know. yeah more of like trying to predict what could be a big score for her yeah exactly like oh well she hasn't played her link yet or you know things like that well she got a she got a few flips and then guess what uh it goes out and your 2025 yeg pin women's champion is another none other than Leslie Ruckman. Congratulations.
    117:12
    Elle Rucko. And your thoughts overall on this finals and your experience winning it. I know it's got to be a good feeling, obviously. You're not going to sit here and say, oh, that sucked. That was too many nerves. Yeah, no, the field was so big. There's just so many good players there. So every time you move on, you're just like, okay, it's not over yet, though. Gotta keep going. And there's you. Whoops, sorry. I gotta bring this over here and here and then there's you. Congratulations.
    117:52
    As I was trying to snip this, I told Leslie before, in Tom's footage he even goes, Ryan, get out of the way. Ryan was like up front and center blocking the pictures. So I was like, Get out of the way. I only have like half a second of footage I could clip. So there you are. The trophy was a giant silver ball. Is that displayed prominently somewhere in your household? It's on a nice shelf.
    118:22
    I'm excited to have my name on the banner next year. Yeah, that's super awesome. Yeah, that's a big one. Do you have... Did you say you've won Whip It before? No? Sorry. Rose for a second. No. This would be my second banner because I got it for Northwest. All I did was print out a piece of paper and tape it on.
    118:54
    What? Oh no. picture. So there are all you ladies standing triumphantly. It was fun to watch. It was awesome to review the footage. Joe, do you have any questions or comments for our champ before we go to the quick final round? Yeah, no, it was great. Always like watching you play, Leslie. Nice job.
    119:22
    Yeah, it kind of looked like fun. Hopefully I can make it out there sometime. Yeah, you should. Yeah, it's a blast. It's so good. Yeah. It's tough, but, man, it was a good time. And I wish I had done best card, I think, as a, whatchamacallit. We'll go back here to the big screen. As a side thing, but I was like, ah, I don't want to split my time. Do you have trouble if there's multiple, like, side tourneys splitting your, managing your time? I think that's one thing I still have to work on.
    119:50
    Yes, and it's harder for women. Women? Yeah, because you have the extra. Yeah, like classics. I made it pretty close. Yeah, you did.
    120:02
    I don't know. Yeah, you and me, I remember going down to my, like, did you finish all your entries? No, yeah, I think I did, because I was just, like, going during match play. But again, you also had one more tournament. One more Mega Match play. Yeah, exactly. exactly do you like hybrid um I haven't played it enough to know but the past two that I've played I haven't been able to use all my entries okay so it really TV's are figuring it out just like balancing how many games are there versus people versus time um I don't know I like pump and dump uh you and me you yeah we are on the same vibe there I like it because I don't, I don't, in match play, like, recently we had Texas Pinmasters, and I was doing great through eight rounds, and this was in, like, sixth or tenth, and then the last two rounds, I just, last three rounds, I think, I got fourth place, five out of six games. And once I get that first fourth, something happens to me where I'm like, I don't know, I just start beating myself up. And with Pump and Dump, I can have a terrible game on stars. I can get 1,000 points, but I know I can just open my wallet and pay another three bucks to try it. So it allows me a little more breathing room, I feel like. And I know there's detractors of it that say it doesn't really measure skill, but you still have to put up a score. And when you look at the scores that you need to qualify, like at the Beast or at, you know, Papa 21, it's not easy. Joe, what about you? Do you have a preferred format?
    121:44
    You know, I think I might prefer match play. after playing in a bunch of tournaments. I like the pressure. Well, then you've got to come to Yacht. Yeah, exactly.
    121:55
    Yeah, I think I've got to do it. No, I also really like match play, just for, like, you feel more like you're hanging out, I guess, rather than, like, I'm always obsessing over the queues and the standings and, I don't know. Yeah. Match play, you get to hang out with different people, different groups. Yeah, and you're all talking about strategy, and most people are cool. You know, there's going to be one or two times where someone's just really focused and intense, and they're like, yeah, don't bother me right now, which I get. I totally understand.
    122:30
    But yeah, so again, congratulations, Leslie. Super awesome to see you and Ryan there. Super happy for you putting on a great clinic of pinball, getting some amazing whoppers, and I can't wait to see, obviously, what's next. You've got some events coming up. What's your next big one that you're going to play in?
    122:52
    NWPC? Yeah, NWPC. That one's a good time. At the end of August. And then going to Papa. Nice. But I think that's it. Then just local stuff. Yeah, I mean, you guys in Seattle have an amazing local scene. Is your Friday league all year round?
    123:14
    Yeah. Every week. It's just like the weekly three strike. There's a lot of people. It's hard. Especially three strikes. Any final thoughts on Yigpin before we move or just anything before we move to the rapid fire round?
    123:33
    No, not really. I'll be back next year. I don't know. Hopefully I'll be better in the main this time. Me and you both.
    123:44
    All right, rapid fire round. Flipper skills or nudging skills? Say the first thing that comes to your mind.
    123:50
    Flipper. Nice. Classic EMs, DMDs, or modern LCDs? EMs, because they're cute. Put that on a shirt. Favorite non-pinball arcade game?
    124:08
    Tetris. Cool. Least favorite pinball machine? Uncanny X-Men. I have to stop. Why? It's just not fun.
    124:24
    I like Gold Wings. Would you rather play Gold Wings or X-Men? Gold Wings. Just like being in the danger room isn't fun.
    124:36
    I don't know. Have you tried the new code? No. No? I'm not putting money in it. That's how much I don't like playing it.
    124:48
    Favorite city for pinball tournaments? Got to be Seattle. It's fine or bozo? We'll see. Favorite channel to mod for?
    125:06
    I'm just kidding. You don't have to answer that. Got to be Tom. Yeah. Yeah, I know, seriously Thank you again, I really appreciate you coming on I'm glad we got a chance to talk We've talked at tournaments before I'm really happy to Meet people like you in the competitive Pinball scene, and like Joe I know people ask me, oh, why do you play pinball? Why do you fly all over? Because it's a really great hobby, and honestly The people are 90% of it It's such a relaxing atmosphere Full of diverse individuals Everybody, for the most part, gets along And you're all there to do one thing And the silver ball can Screw everybody at any time And so it's a blast Joe, did you have any final questions Or comments for our esteemed guest?
    125:56
    I think so, yeah I'm excited to I think me and Hadi are both going to Northwest So we'll see Awesome You want to plug anything? Double card Double card, I can't wait I was going to ask you Actually, you know what? I have one question What is your card strategy? Because we asked this to ZMAC and Rayday. What do you focus on with cards? Let's say single card, five games. Do you go for games that you know well first, or do you start with the hard ones first?
    126:24
    I'm not good at card. And I start with the ones I know well first, just to, like, not feel like I'm playing $20 for a game of house balls. I don't know. I just like to, like, feel good on a game and, like, get that momentum. And then from there, like, calculate backwards. Like, well, if I get this score on this, that's all I need. Yeah. Nice. But card is so hard. It's very hard. You need to get better at it. Yeah. Double card is easier, though. Why is that? I don't know. I don't really know what it is. It's like you get one score there, like you finish a card, so you're here, and then you're just kind of like leapfrogging yourself with cards. It feels less all or nothing, I guess. I was going to say, it's not like a Bigfoot mystery. It's just there. It just works. Well, I can't wait to try it. I can't wait to visit Seattle and see all the pinball peeps up there. Captain Zanzibar was one of the first guys I met on Twitch, and we've always had a fun time ribbing each other. Is there anything you want to plug, anything you want to promote?
    127:43
    Not that I can think of. Yeah, hope to see people at some events this summer. Awesome. Well, congratulations. This has been Episode 8 of Wizards and Warriors with our guest, El Rocco, Leslie Ruckman, your 2025 Yagpin Women's Champion. And with that, we will say adieu and stay tuned for Episode 9. We are hopefully going to get another interview with a new world champion, or should I say back-to-back world champion. Stay tuned for that. So bye, everybody.
    128:17
    See you. Thanks. The lights are flashing, the bells are ringing. I step up to the candle, the heart is ringing. The crowd is watching, the tension is high. I'm ready to play, it's time to define Pinball warriors, we're ready to fight Cause I'm all that, and this is our delight I'm possessive, but we ain't controlled Pinball warriors, we've got the soul Cause I'm all that, and this is our delight We'll bring the city, the arcades alive But you must be part of my every command In this pinball kingdom, I make my stand Pinball warriors, we're ready to fight Cause I'm all that, and this is our delight We got the soul.