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Winchester Mystery House with Brad Albright and Jeff Dodson! Expo 2025

Bash Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·42m 51s·analyzed·Oct 27, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.019

TL;DR

Winchester Mystery House artists discuss sold-out Expo 2025 success and creative process.

Summary

Brad Albright (artist) and Jeff Dodson (audio/Dirty Pool) discuss Winchester Mystery House at Pinball Expo 2025 in a live-streamed podcast episode. The game sold out within 24-48 hours with no planned second production run, becoming an instant collector's item. The hosts praise the game's accessibility despite designer Karl D'Angelo reputation as one of the world's best players, and discuss the collaborative creative process under tight time constraints.

Key Claims

  • Winchester Mystery House sold out completely with no dealers remaining that have inventory

    high confidence · Brad Albright and Jeff Dodson, Winchester Mystery House team, stated during Expo 2025 podcast

  • David (Barrels of Fun owner) is on record stating there will be no second production run of Winchester

    high confidence · Brad Albright explicitly stated during podcast recording at Expo 2025

  • Winchester Mystery House is Karl D'Angelo first officially designed pinball machine

    high confidence · Brad Albright confirmed during podcast interview at Expo 2025

  • Brad Albright had approximately 3-3.5 months to complete artwork for Winchester

    high confidence · Brad Albright stated 'Three months ago' when asked when he came on the project

  • Jeff Dodson (Dirty Pool) was brought on approximately 3-3.5 months ago for audio work

    high confidence · Jeff Dodson referenced same timeline as Brad for joining the Winchester project

  • The W planchet on Winchester artwork contains no intentional hidden letters spelling 'LFS' for Lyman F. Sheats Jr.

    high confidence · Brad Albright directly addressed and debunked this rumor during the podcast

  • The homebrew section at Pinball Expo 2025 has the largest single booth square footage, bigger than Stern's

    medium confidence · Bash Pinball hosts stated during Expo 2025 discussion, though they acknowledged not having time to verify all details

  • Rob Berry collection displayed at Expo 2025 is approximately 90-100% different games from last year

    medium confidence · Bash Pinball hosts comparing 2024 and 2025 Expo exhibits of Rob Berry games

  • Jeff Dodson composed the Winchester theme in a single 30-second piece at piano after receiving Karl D'Angelo references

    high confidence · Jeff Dodson detailed his creative process during Expo 2025 podcast

Notable Quotes

  • “It is both sold through and sold out now. There are no dealers that we are aware of that have it.”

    Brad Albright @ not specified — Confirms Winchester's complete sellout status and unavailability even through secondary channels

  • “David is on record. There will be no second role.”

    Brad Albright @ not specified — Confirms manufacturer's official stance on limited production, creating permanent scarcity

  • “Much to my financial detriment, I made sure that the game was a big chunk of my compensation, and I can't wait to play the thing for years because it'll be bolted, as they say.”

    Brad Albright @ not specified — Reveals Brad personally owns a Winchester unit and has secured one for long-term collection

  • “Every single person is like Winchester, Winchester, Winchester. We're not exaggerating.”

    BASH Pinball Podcast @ not specified — Documents overwhelming community sentiment and hype around the game at Expo

  • “The lack of time really, that parameter I think cut out the internal critic, you know. We didn't have enough time to second guess much. We just went for it.”

    Brad Albright @ not specified — Reveals tight deadline as creative advantage, forcing instinct-based design decisions

  • “I sat at my piano and I played, like, a 30-second piece. And I was just like, I think this is kind of moody and this could work for like the Winchester. And I sent him the video and he was like, this is exactly it.”

    Jeff Dodson @ not specified — Documents rapid theme composition process and immediate creative alignment on core audio identity

  • “It's an incredible shooting game. Everything about it. We just haven't heard a negative thing about it.”

    BASH Pinball Podcast @ not specified — Reflects universal positive reception across all player segments at Expo

  • “I urge anybody I know it's rare and this is a dumb thing to say but if you can't find one play one and I think that you will see that a lot of the stuff that people are saying it's like too hard to the left planes to out draining or whatever. It's like, it's not, the game's super fun, it's not too hard, the shots are really satisfying.”

Entities

Brad AlbrightpersonJeff DodsonpersonKarl D'AngelopersonWinchester Mystery HousegameBarrels of FuncompanyRob BerrypersonPinball Expo 2025eventBash Pinball Podcastorganization

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Winchester Mystery House sold completely through within 24-48 hours at Pinball Expo 2025 with zero remaining dealer inventory

    high · Brad Albright confirmed 'It is both sold through and sold out now. There are no dealers that we are aware of that have it.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Barrels of Fun confirmed no second production run of Winchester, establishing permanent limited availability and collector FOMO

    high · Brad Albright: 'David is on record. There will be no second role.' and 'There will be no second production run.'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Community predicts Winchester will reach $30,000+ secondary market value within 4 years, compared to Pirates of the Caribbean trajectory

    medium · Bash host: 'It's going to be like $30,000 in four years' and comparison to Pirates of the Caribbean as 'instant classic'

  • ?

    community_signal: Every person interviewed at Expo expressed Winchester as most anticipated game; no negative feedback encountered across all player demographics

    high · Bash host: 'Every single person is like Winchester, Winchester, Winchester. We're not exaggerating.' and 'We just haven't heard a negative thing about it.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Tight 3-3.5 month timeline for artwork and audio forced rapid creative decisions that ultimately succeeded, suggesting constraints as design asset

    high · Brad Albright: 'The lack of time really, that parameter I think cut out the internal critic' and 'Pure instinct' combined with Jeff's 30-second theme composition

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.029

0:00
So I just unpacked the podcast gear to record this intro. We had our gear shipped back from Chicago where we were at the 41st annual Pinball Expo. While we were there, we live streamed a podcast episode and we were joined by Brad Albright, artist on Winchester Mystery House, and Jeff Dotson, a.k.a. Dirty Pool, who did the sound. There's also a video version of this episode with a bunch more visual hijinks, so check out that version on our YouTube channel if you like to watch. Oh, and Don couldn't be here for the intro. He fell off a cliff. Okay, Expo live stream starts now.
0:54
All right, we're recording audio. We're recording video. So we're sitting down for the first time in a while. We have to be very careful, Matt, because you missed it earlier. You were too busy pouring espresso shots. Hot steaming espresso shots. Serving beans. I'm a bean slinger, you know, at heart. It's backdrop behind us. Not the most stable. It is a little sketchy. It did fall over once. It did not kill anyone. I know. It was... Three people were badly injured. It was like a slow... I mean, it was agonizing. I saw Sarah sitting there. Out of my peripheral, I noticed the back slowly just going... Almost like a ship sinking. Like the mass of a ship sinking. Hey, how's it going? Hey. I didn't actually see it. I didn't see what happened. I just saw the reaction of the person's face that I was making coffee for. Yeah. And it was shock and horror as it. And then I turned around and I just saw it was like already on the ground and I didn't see what happened. But you knocked it over. Good job. Yeah. Well, I think we might need a bigger booth, man. Yeah. I think we might need a bigger booth. We've been slowly encroaching upon all the areas around us. I mean, we have a pinball machine here. I don't know if it's in the shot. It's kind of hard to see maybe. Yeah, Harlem Globetrotters. We're easily six inches into the next booth over. Yeah, yeah. And on this side, we're about a foot. We're past a foot over. Fortunately, we have Lance. He's been amazing, by the way. You know, Lance, if you ever watch this, shout out to you. He's got, you know, I know pinball purists are probably going to crucify me for this, but he's got like a virtual pinball cabinet. Yeah. Slash, I guess, virtual pinball machine company. He has different packages that he sells, different levels of customization slash completion. So if you're a DIY guy, you can kind of finish it yourself for a cheaper price or get the full package a little bit more expensive. But his whole virtual pinball setup, man, kind of surprised me, dude. I'm not even trying to sell this. We're going to show a little bit more about that on a video that we're going to put out. It actually felt real. Yeah, it feels really good. But if you've ever played like virtual pinball on a phone or an iPad or a computer or something like that, this is a whole different animal. And it feels way more real than, you know, because it's full size. It's a LCD screen that's the size of a pinball playfield. So everything's to scale and it feels pretty real, man. It's got like solenoids and you feel the solenoid click when you hit the flipper button. There is a physicality to it. Even nudging it, maybe once or twice, I found myself kind of forgetting it was virtual, honestly. There's obviously the tiniest bit of lag, and if you really, really try, you kind of remember that it's virtual. Sure, sure. Is it fun? Yes. It's super fun. Is it pinball? I think so, man. I was immediately nudging just instinctively. Instinctively, yeah. Although, to be fair, I do nudge my laptop sometimes when I play VPX. But yeah, it feels real. The music is good, the displays are good. I kind of want one now because you can play crazy games like Big Bang Bar, which we were playing earlier.

Brad Albright @ not specified — Directly addresses pre-release concerns from online forum discussion about game difficulty and drain patterns

Dirtypool Pinballorganization
Lyman F. Sheats Jr.person
Pirates of the Caribbeangame
Glenn Waechterperson
Lanceperson
Pinball Expoevent
Davidperson
  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Community pre-release concerns about excessive difficulty from designer Carl D'Angelo's elite player status contradicted by actual hands-on players praising balanced, satisfying gameplay

    high · Brad directly addressed forum concerns: 'people are saying it's like too hard...It's like, it's not, the game's super fun, it's not too hard, the shots are really satisfying'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo 2025 reorganized booths: homebrew section now largest single booth (larger than Stern), tournament moved closer to main hall, Rob Burke collection relocated from separate room to main floor

    medium · Bash hosts discussed layout changes from 2024 to 2025, noting homebrew area 'bigger than Stern' and tournament repositioning

  • ?

    collector_signal: Brad Albright negotiated significant equity stake in Winchester compensation, securing personal unit; demonstrates designer confidence and long-term investment in product

    high · Brad: 'Much to my financial detriment, I made sure that the game was a big chunk of my compensation, and I can't wait to play the thing for years because it'll be bolted'

  • ?

    business_signal: Barrels of Fun confirmed plans for additional future pinball machines beyond Winchester, indicating sustained manufacturing operations

    high · Brad explicitly stated: 'Barrels of Fun is going to make more pinball machines. Cool. They're making pinball machines. Nice.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Community speculation that W planchet in Winchester artwork contained hidden 'LFS' initials honoring Lyman Sheets confirmed as coincidental by artist Brad Albright

    high · Brad: 'the planchet on the Winchester Mystery House artwork has a W...People are speculating that within the W are the letters LFS for Lyman Sheets. That is not intentional. Total weird coincidence.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Online forum concerns about game difficulty, drain patterns, and left-side bias shifted dramatically once players got hands-on experience; actual gameplay contradicted pre-release speculation

    high · Brad: 'the people that have actually played the game do not have those concerns' about 'too hard to the left planes to out draining'

  • ?

    product_concern: Legitimate community question raised: Does elite player skill (Carl D'Angelo is world-class) necessarily translate to good game design? Answered affirmatively by early player feedback

    medium · Host questioned whether being 'one of the greatest pinball players ever' guarantees good design, noting Ellen is great player but comparison failed; Winchester disproved concern through hands-on play

    • 4:26
    It's just, where are you going to play that unless it gets re-released? But there's like 300 or so games that you can play on there that a lot of those aren't readily available. And Lance's thing was you can learn the rules of games without going to the arcade, which is kind of nice. Yeah, I think, what was the name of his company? I want to give him a shout out real quick, like an official... Pinballcabinet.com. Hang on, pinballcabinet.com, easy, easy.
    4:50
    Thanks Lance, thanks for being an awesome booth buddy slash neighbor, letting us slowly take more and more real estate every day. Before I got hardcore into pinball, I did start playing the Williams pinball app on my phone. I remember. And I was playing that a lot. And like, it's not the same physically, but with this machine, it feels way more close to an actual pinball machine than like playing it on a touchscreen. I was doing like drop catches and like little, like all the little tricks worked. That's what really shocked me is like all the little like flipper sensitive techniques. I was kind of blown away by that. So, yeah, I mean, that's I just want to cover that real quick. Thanks, Lance. Yeah, the nudging is kind of surreal, too. It's like you're shaking this machine and there's a digital ball moving on it. It's weird. Yeah, I think if you have like really limited, if you have limited space, it costs about the same as buying like one pinball machine. Basically, yeah. Then you can have like 300. So I don't know. It's kind of cool. A quick segue, too, and kind of like to finish this thought with the virtual pins, the homebrew stuff, right? I was talking to Lance a little bit about it. It's a great way to make your own game and kind of test out the shots and kind of see what feels fun or get inspired before you cut some wood and start going in on an actual physical game. Yeah, I know. Jack Danger came up with some of his first designs in virtual pinball. It's a good way to just test out, is this geometry feasible? I'm kind of a believer now, man. Any pinball is good pinball, so if you want to fight me about it, that's fine. That's true. But I will take virtual pinball over no pinball. If you're a pinball purist, you want to fight me? How about virtual pinball over an EM game? It depends on the game, dude, because I've had... Not to be an EM hater, but really, legitimately, would you take a virtual pinball machine over, let's say, let's be controversial here and say Gorgar? Oh, God. Why would you do that? Let's make this a really tough decision. A virtual pinball cabinet or a Gorgard cabinet. Why would you do that? You can only have one, and you have to keep it forever. I would personally take the Gorgard.
    7:07
    However, I would understand if you did not, and you took the virtual pinball. Yeah, I think I would take the virtual machine, honestly. We have variety. Yeah, it's just variety. I would get bored.
    7:20
    Borgard. I'm sorry. I would get bored after a while, you know, because those games are simple and this thing you can play, you know, hundreds of games without, you know, I don't want to sound like an ad for it. Yeah, no, no, but yeah, it did kind of shock me a little bit. It was cool. So the segue, right, was the homebrew, right? Right, right, right. So this year, Chicago Expo 2025, dude, the homebrew section is like off the chain. Yeah, and they were, they kindly moved it away from the bathrooms and the exits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, I don't know, it was fine last year, but now it's got like, the homebrew section actually has the biggest single booth square footage, like bigger than Stern. Is that true? Yeah, it is. Like the collective homebrew section is bigger than any one? Quite a bit. Wow. Yeah, quite a bit. Speaking of which, how do you feel about the layout this year compared to last year? I mean, honestly, I haven't been able to just like run around as much as I would like. Last year was quite a bit different, and my understanding is that being the 40th anniversary, there was a little more happening. There was some partnerships with some video game companies that were here. And I think that's the reason that last year they had all of Rob Burke's humongous, not all of his collection, but the games that Rob Burke, the guy who started the Pinball Expo, his collection of games are a highlight of Pinball Expo every year. Right, right. And so last year they were all kind of in a separate area from the main booth. Right, across. So in the hotel convention center that we're at, Renaissance, Schaumburg, when you go into the convention area, there is a main hall to the left and there is a small hall to the right. It looks like this year the smaller hall has a tournament going. Is that right? Yeah. And last year the tournament was up. No, no, no. It was further down. Towards the Starbucks. A possible third hall. It was a bit of a hike. Now the tournament is closer and Rob Burke's collection of games has moved inside to the main hall area. Right, right, right. Okay. Honestly, I think this is probably the more typical setup, but last year was our first time. Got it, got it. And having all those games in that separate room was actually kind of special. It was special because the big hall, it's loud, crowded. Yeah. It's taxing on the ears. Like I stepped outside today. Yeah. Earlier. And it was just like, wow, dude, like the decibel level just went. Yeah. And just like the air and you kind of forget how loud it is. I mean, there's like hundreds of games on people. Yeah. Talking, podcasting. Announcements. Yeah. That sound like they're coming through a megaphone. Right. So it was nice to have that like respite or a change of scenery. Yeah. And also, I don't think there was any music playing in there. I don't think there was. And there is constant music playing in here. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that group of games is, to me, it's the highlight because he brings, like, the craziest, weirdest games. I know. And last year when they were in that separate room, you could hear all the games really well because it was just like a smaller room. There was less people in there. There was no music. And so it felt like sneaking into someone private little room Yeah it did Like you can play any of my games And it just felt like kind of magical in there It did Yeah I do miss that a little bit I hope somehow that comes back Maybe next year. It's still, like... We can dream. Like, it's kind of splitting hairs. It's still the highlight for me. The thing that blew me away this year and the thing that I was wondering the most about coming here is, is it going to be a different set of Rob Burke's games? And the answer is yes. Interesting. I remember the games that were here last year, and I want to say it's like 90 to 100% different games. Different, yeah. So he's not just bringing the same games here every time. He's got the largest collection in the world, and he's bringing different games every year that you come here. Right. Which is amazing. Unreal. How many games does he have? Do you know? I think it's over 1,000.
    11:30
    Insane, dude. Yeah, Guinness World Record holder for pinball machines. He actually came by earlier. Yeah, yeah. He hung out a little bit. It was pretty cool. We offered him some espresso, but he was like, no, I don't want to. Not a, yeah. I don't do that. Yeah, yeah. Not a coffee drinker. It's. He doesn't need it. For every. He doesn't need it. For every, like, ten coffee drinkers, there's one person who's like, I don't touch this stuff. I don't, I don't, I don't relate to that at all. I don't understand. Yeah. I don't, I'm not sure, you know, what, what else we could provide. Maybe next year we should do, maybe he likes root beer. Maybe we can just bring a kettle and make some tea because virtually everybody's like, no, I'm a tea person. What about matcha? All right, well, you're wrong, but you can be both. You can do both. It's okay. You can be a coffee person and a tea person. Yeah. I am. I do tea. I am too. It's not like one of these. It's not a binary choice. I am too. Really quick, before we get further into the stream, we need to cover a couple things, including our Instagram giveaway. Oh, right, right, right. So I do believe we have a winner. Is that right? I do believe so. Yes, we do. So we took all the entrants and thanks everybody for entering the contest. And we did draw a winner randomly using a spreadsheet. Okay. So I wish we had sound effects. We don't do live. It's kind of weird. Yeah, we can add the effects later. So I'll do my best here. Bizz Fortuna, Bizz underscore Fortuna is the winner of the giveaway. Bizz.
    13:08
    Mark Bizz. Mark Bizz is the business. Mark Bizz is the lucky winner of our giveaway. So, congrats. Dear Mark, I'm going to send you a message on Instagram. You are our Instagram slash email submission winner. Yep. And what we're giving away, oh my God. Uh-oh, looks like we got some. Okay. We need everyone in here somehow. Get in here. I don't know how. We only have two mics and two headphones. Snuggle. Hold on, hold on. All right, all right. We're all here. Brad, you got to get on the sofa. I'm worried. Here we go. We got us all on the couch. What if it blows up and one of our anuses gets so filled with air? I know.
    13:54
    I'm worried. Hey, I just brought over a Who Farted shirt. It's perfect. Hey, Brad, there's been a rumor going on. We just talked about this. Can you get rid of this Winchester rumor for us? Oh, yeah, yeah. Ooh, dirt. I want to hear it. All right, so the planchet on the Winchester Mystery House artwork has a W. Okay. It's kind of this, like, carved wood style W. I see, right here. I love it. It's very relevant. People are speculating that within the W are the letters LFS for Lyman Sheets. That is not intentional. Not intentional. Total weird coincidence. But I love that people are looking at the details and that it's like I'd be happy to honor Lyman Sheets. Totally. Batman 66 is probably one of my favorite games. I mean, that code is legendary on that game. I was just playing 24 and that's a Lyman Sheen's game. Wait, is it? Yeah, first time I played it I was like, I like this game. Dude, 24 is awesome by the way. How is that game good? It looks horrible. Really? It's from the Stern Dark Ages, right? Yeah, 2009. Listen, today, this Expo 2025 for me was a journey through the Stern Dark Ages because I actively am looking for CSI 24. Dude, 24 was a really fun game. Really? Yeah, I swear to you, we should play it later if we have a chance. I know you're busy. I mean, it's just like Led Zeppelin. It's just Steve Ritchie's, like, rants in the back. It's just fun, dude. It's just fun. It shoots fun, I'm sure. There's little stand-up guys you gotta, like, hit that are like, I think they have guns or something. There's a house behind them that you have to, like... There's a sniper tower, and it moves. I don't know. It's alright. Where is that? I wanna play it. It's that way. That way. Just generally walk the back corner. Because this whole place is not, you know... I'll just walk that way and find it. Keep walking, you'll see it. Totally opposite end. Brad, you were saying you played something? I don't think it's even here, but I played an Indiana Jones. I had no idea that the Stern one.
    15:52
    It's at this new arcade near my house. Wait, no, this isn't the one that I just passed down the way. That's the other one. Let's check this out. How'd you like it? Did you like that Ark of the Covenant multiball? Did you get that going? I felt like the game lasted forever and then it gave me a free game so I kept playing and then I was just ready. I think the one fun thing about that game is it has like a 6 or 7 or 8 or a ridiculous number of ball multiball. It happens like every time and you're just like alright enough with the multiballs. I love discovering like new Stern Dark Ages games. I'm like oh what there's a rollercoaster tycoon it's like damn sandwich Ford Focus. What other games am I missing? Would you consider Playboy part of the Dark Ages? Because I played that in Houston a year ago, and I was just cackling.
    16:46
    It was so hilarious. It has like a screen, like a wire curtain, right? It has a curtain that you can switch out. It came with like PG-13 or R-rated inserts. This was the R-rated for sure. Oh, really? When the centerfolds open up, it's just so funny. Yeah, it's pretty hilarious. Is it okay that I use your pocket for my elbow, right? Yeah, that's cool. Dude, I like it. Do you guys, can we shift gears? Yeah. Because I really want to talk about your game. Yeah, yeah. We have like part, this is an opportunity to talk about this free, the game of Expo 2025, you guys. Oh, I don't know about that. It is, it is. Don't be modest. Come on, guys. Like, we haven't even been able to play it because the lines are so long. Yeah, tell us about your game. Look at this tangle. Tell us about the game we haven't been able to play yet because you won't jump us to the front of the line. Come on, everybody has a chance that it is important. We can't make deceptions, right? I don't know, it was a giant team effort. Jeff, you've played it way more than I have, so you've probably experienced more of the growth of code and light show and everything. So I was driving out to Carl's place to play the Whitewood because we had a prototype, and he lives fairly close to me in California. So I would drive out to his place with Sid, and she would bring the camera so we could get B-roll, and we would play the game, see what worked, what didn't. And, you know, talk with Carl about what was fun, what wasn't, and obviously the sound stuff, which was my portion. Awesome, awesome. Dirty Pool, we love you, man. Thank you. I love you, too. More people should be watching your podcast. It's criminal that people don't. Man, no, no. No, I'm serious. Thank you. No. I'm a huge bash podcast advocate. Thank you. Thank you so much, man. We just want to have fun. Glenn Wechter turned me on to you guys. Glenn is basically my family now after this trip because he sent me a text. He's like, hey, I made it home. Because he drove pretty far, like immediately last night I think he drove like straight through to see his daughter pitch softball. And he sent me that like I made it okay text and I'm like we're family now. Yeah, yeah. Glenn, he's like our best friend. He's like just our pinball friend. He was the first person to ever email us saying, hey, I really enjoy your show. Thank you. And that means a lot to us because we were doing this for a while without even knowing, didn't even like this. You know what I mean? Now we've just been doing three ways with Glenn, three way text that is. Through a text. That's an important thing. I'd like to add that later. Does that mean you're best friends when you do the check-in if someone got home safe? Family. Is that the metric? Family. Oh, it's family. Family. Family thing. Is it like Olive Garden? We'll get Olive Garden together. Yeah, that's for 2026. Hopefully with you guys. Can we all go to Olive Garden next year? Are you more of an unlimited soup guy or unlimited? Breadsticks all the way. I wasn't even on the menu. That wasn't an option. We'll start a side rail. Yeah. Back to the game. Yeah, let's talk about it. I got to watch the art develop on Slack, which was pretty cool, which, Brad, I think maybe you have something to say on that. Yeah, so I had a terrifyingly short time frame to work on the thing, but everyone was gung-ho with the direction right off the bat, and under pressure it just seemed to work. I love that Brad went ham with a really aggressive color palette for the game right off the bat. Yeah. And that did go through some tweaks of hue shifts, but like... Yeah, I mean, when David asked me if I was available or what my schedule was like, I was like, ooh, depends a lot on what it is, you know? And when he told me what it was, I immediately was like, oh, man.
    20:12
    Because, like, Disney's Haunted Mansion, and do you guys remember that old CD-ROM game, The Seventh Guest? For sure. Those are clearly directly inspired by the house, so I could turn that inspiration back. By the actual Winchester house. Yes. So Carl and I definitely were like eye to eye about the inspiration and I think the color scheme just sort of happened on its own. Yeah, truly. Carl had sent Seventh Guest as an audio reference to me and I was like, bro, you don't need to. I know this theme. I played this game. Yeah, totally. That's awesome. So yeah, the lack of time really, that parameter I think cut out the internal critic, you know. We didn't have enough time to second guess much. We just went for it. Pure instinct. Skill. And if the theme hadn't resonated with me, if the vibe wasn't something that I was really stoked about, that would have been a lot harder, I think. So you're officially a guy who can make things happen under pressure. Do you want to be known for that? Or you're like, no, give me a year next time? I would love to have more time next time By contrast Portal was my first production game and that was a very long meticulous detail process By choice, I was going for that with it and I'm equally proud of that. So I think it's nice to know that I can do anything in that sort of spectrum of time. I'd rather fall somewhere in the middle next time probably. Do you think Winchester would have come together like it did if we had time though? No, probably not. I mean, because everybody really like literally double crammed, double timed. When did you come on? Three months ago. Okay, so about the same time then. Yeah, three and a half, something like that. But I mean, as audio, I'm brought on later in development. Like, why would it have already been made? Yeah. Well, it's easy for you, right? You just like push some keys. Yeah, I just sit on it. I just fall asleep on a keyboard and it makes sounds. Pretty easy. Just use AI. That's true. It's fine. Yeah, the whole game's AI. Yeah, I talked about them. Brad didn't actually work on it. We just put it into Tsuno or something. Generate me a song about a haunted house that has booze and ooze. Definitely a theremin layer. Can I tell you guys something kind of secret? Yes, please. So when we came over here, we just wanted espresso.
    22:39
    Are we going to reopen the espresso bar for VIPs? Yeah, we are. How do we keep it on the DL, man? A crowd always starts to form as soon as the espresso. Yeah, people smell it. My favorite part of Pinball Expo this year is absolutely the espresso mission that you want. Yes. Because that shit's delicious. You are not the first person to say that. I concur. From doing dozens of expos and events over the years, the one thing that is always missing is good coffee. Good coffee, yes. And this is insanely good coffee. Yes, thank you. I ironically took a picture of the concession, whatever you want to call it. Their coffee machine literally said no espresso. There's not even that espresso. There is no espresso. That's messed up. It's messed up. It's a problem. Why even bring espresso up then? Why even say espresso? Just don't have it on there. Just say no. They must be getting a lot of questions.
    23:37
    Serious, serious, serious things that need answers at Pinball Expo. Maybe that should be your booth next year. Just the concession stand. Just the concession stand? So let's get back on to... I really want you to play the game. Yeah, dude. We clearly don't want to talk about it anymore. Yeah, I mean, I know you guys are probably tired of talking about it at this point. No, it's sold out, so theoretically we don't have to talk about it, but we want everyone to know that the hype is real. It's a really fun game, and we want people to play it. Okay, so if it's... I can't wait. Tell me about this sold out business. Does that mean it's sold to, like, nobody can get one anymore or you have to get one from a dealer who's bought one? Yeah, Kaneda talked about this, about sold through versus sold out. It is both sold through and sold out now. Okay. There are no dealers that we are aware of that have it. Okay. Wow. Well, that answers that question. So this is like an instant classic. It's going to be like $30,000 in four years. Oh, my God. So we can't get one at all anymore. I mean, if someone puts... Ever? If someone sells... That's correct. David is on record. There will be no second role. Oh, my God. So this is the new Pirates of the Caribbean, basically. Wow. I mean, that's cool. Congratulations, guys. Seriously. Seriously. That's a big deal, man. For real. Thank you. Yeah, it's really surreal and weird. I'm just thankful that it was important to me, before knowing it was going to be awesome, that I was going to get one myself. Nice. Much to my financial detriment, I made sure that the game was a big chunk of my compensation, and I can't wait to play the thing for years because it'll be bolted, as they say. I'm also stoked that mine is bolted to the floor.
    25:18
    That's cool. So if you guys ever decide, we haven't played it yet, but just from what I'm hearing, it's pretty incredible. It's an incredible shooting game. Everything about it. We just haven't heard a negative thing about it. We've talked to everybody. That's the question we ask everybody. What game are you most excited about? We're not exaggerating. Every single person is like Winchester, Winchester, Winchester. We're not exaggerating. Now we're just mad that we haven't played it yet. I know. Maybe we're never going to get to play it. Let's end this. Come out to Los Angeles, do a little Mobile Bash podcast. You can play some damn Winchester. We can do it. Come down to Dallas. I have espresso and road trip. And pinball. Road trip. I found it's funny like the you know we at barrels have been I at least I have for sure and I know a few other people have been certainly watching the pin side like forum talking about the game and the people that have concerns about the game certain things that they bring up the people that have actually played the game do not have those concerns. Yeah, I I urge anybody I know it's rare and this is a dumb thing to say but if you can't find one play one and I think that you will see that a lot of the stuff that people are saying it's like too hard to the left planes to out draining or whatever. It's like, it's not, the game's super fun, it's not too hard, the shots are really satisfying, the turntable functions exactly how you would imagine. It's just, it's a really wonderful pin. Nice. So Carl D'Angelo, this is his first pinball machine that he's officially designed, is that correct? That's correct, yes. And so him being, I don't know, one of the greatest pinball players ever in history, I guess it's maybe a legitimate concern that he's going to make a hard freaking game. Sure, and also, does that mean, does that translate to being a good designer? I know Ellen is obviously a great pinball player, but that doesn't mean you're going to be a great designer. I can eat a lot of hot dogs, but I'm probably not a good hot dog chef. Can you cook one? You probably are. You're probably right.
    27:08
    What's a hot dog chef? Wait, do you boil it first? I don't know. That's why I wouldn't be a good hot dog. All right, all right, all right.
    27:16
    I remember the first time I went over there, Sid and I were driving over there, and I was like, I hope it's good. I'm kind of worried and I plunged it and I just took four or five shots and I was just like, yes.
    27:30
    Brad, did you feel that way too? Nice. Oh yeah, well for me it was kind of funny because I played it two weeks ago after there was already art on it. I'm looking forward to getting better at playing it because I wouldn't say I'm a great player. I generally start just by knocking a ball around. I don't pay attention to what I'm supposed to do. Same. But the geometry of it is really kind of fascinating. Cool, man. I'm stoked. Dude, we have to play this thing, man. Should we just end this now and go play it? So can we talk about Carl a bit? Carl, is Carl here? Carl is here. He's over at the booth. I love that you try to get him to do the pyramid. Yeah, he does.
    28:09
    He didn't fight for the great pyramid. That cracked me up, man. That was awesome. So can we look forward to more Barrels of Fun Carl D'Angelo games? Is that an official thing that's maybe happening? I can definitely say that Barrels of Fun is going to make more pinball machines. Cool. They're making pinball machines. Nice.
    28:28
    Dude, so how long do you guys have? I mean, we don't want to keep you hostage. Dude, my legs are killing me. This is the first time I got to sit in a while. I'm just so freaking hot. I'm like sweating, dude. I don't know. Oh, it's a sweatpants. That's what it is. I'm sweating.
    28:40
    These are, by the way, these are vintage real JNCOs that I had when I was like 13. These are real. No way. Just for the couch hang. I thought I was cool, but I'm actually like burning up. So it was really a mistake. You got an N64 in there? Yeah, exactly. Probably fits right here, man. It's there for nothing. So, Jeff, can you tell us a little bit about what, other than just like falling asleep on your keyboard, what went into making the music and producing the audio for this? Yeah, for sure. So, like, I guess Carl, like, sent me a bunch of references of things that he was like, this would be cool if this inspired it, but I really wanted you to kind of, like, do your thing. So I did. And I sat down as soon as he sent me the references and I, like, sat at my piano and I played, like, a 30-second piece. And I was just like, I think this is kind of moody and this could work for like the Winchester. And I sent him the video and he was like, this is exactly it. And that was the theme that ended up being the theme for the game. And then, you know, he's got this 100 page document or whatever. It's just like every room has descriptions about what the characters are. You've seen this. Yeah, that thing is remarkable. Well, I need to go back and reread it now that it's become what it's become, because I was reading it before I had done any art, before you had done any music. But the amount of narrative detail was nothing I've ever read. I don't read rule sheets. But I found it very impressive. It was clear that he had a clear vision. It had poetry in it. It had the names of the rooms and their chapter names because every room is like Flicker and Flame. It's like the Venetian Diner room and then it says Flicker and Flame. Flicker and Flame is kind of the mode name and the other one is the room name.
    30:20
    It's kind of a tribute to both the house and pinball modes at the same time. So this document explains all this stuff. I'd read the mode and just be like, okay, this room is actually supposed to be a scarier room like the basement. So let's make it something that's in that vein where this room is not. And then the multiball music, I wanted it to be something that was really driving. And just in general, we were like, this is a weird IP, so let's really be bold with these choices and try to do something different. Thank you. You're welcome. Will you send me the audio files so I can use them on the podcast? Yeah, let me talk to David about that. I don't have any problem with that. I got them. That'd be awesome. Cool. But yeah, and there's lots more. I mean, we got music that's ready for the game and we're just, as we're code stuff. Eric has got, I mean, like, we worked really hard. There was a lot of, obviously, criticism about the state of doom when it came out. And like, the whole team was like, we really want to make sure that this game, not that any team wants their game to not be in a good state coming out. But like, there's just a lot of stuff that like, is hard that shows up with code and fixing certain things breaks other stuff. And like, all of us just banded together to try to find every single thing that we could possibly do and get rid of it all. The games have been rock solid this entire expo. People have put thousands of plays on it. It's just incredible. Dude, look who it is. Speaking of, Mark Silk, everybody. I know. I can't see him. So, yeah, famed voice actor. Yeah, Mark Silk is delightful. In the last half hour, all I've done is come around and said, there's these guys who've got coffee and microphones. You need them. They're making us talk instead of making us coffee. It's really intolerable. Sorry about that. There's a price to pay. Thank you, Mark. Thanks, Mark. We don want to hold you guys hostage man If you have to go this is your second chance We not leaving until you make us some guys Yeah That the thing We have to make the coffees I not going until I have a supper That why you still here Also I told David I would bring him one We need a David Van Aswan. Is that what's going to help us play the game a little later? It's not going to help.
    32:21
    I am going to go back up there to hang out with the people. I will hold a place in line if you'd like. Or you should just come up and hang out with us. Honestly, we do have to break down at some point. Thank you, guys. I don't know if you want to break down. Yeah, emotionally. This could be an outro if we wanted to be. Well, before we do it, I don't know how long it's been. How long has it been? It's been a while. It's been like 30 minutes. I don't even know what time it is anymore. Let's just say, real quick, other than Winchester, obviously everybody's excited about this game. What other things at Expo have you guys been excited about? Or into, or it could be a game, it could be like a mod, it could be anything. For me, there's a vendor over, sort of close to the entrance, Artivision. Artivision? And they make these incredible shadow boxes. Okay, cool. You know, three-dimensional, like, glass panels dividing the images. Some of it's, like, classic game back-class imagery and stuff, licensed. Cool. And it's exactly the kind of thing that inspired me to do the kind of work that I do, which is, like, try to bring things off. Yeah, like, this stuff is so clean and awesome, like, I've got to find something to do with them. Brad's booth has all these multi-layered wooden sculpture pieces. I saw those too, yeah. You did a Winchester one, right? Yeah, kind of. It's like a seance thing. It's got the same plant you did. It's a Winchester. Oh, okay.
    33:45
    Not really Winchester. No, got it. Unofficial. Jeff, what about you? I have not been playing as much pinball as I want because I'm stuck trying to talk to people about the game because I want to talk about the game to people. But I did make a walkthrough and Manu gave me an escort through the entire homebrew section. Nice, man. And that place is popping. Incredible. It's really good. Incredible. Like those games are like, they could just be in your home. Yeah. Did you guys check out this, what is it, Monster League Hockey? Yeah. I have a game that I'm supposed to play with Sid on it. I haven't done it yet, but I've heard it's pretty amazing. And I heard that some guy did the artwork for it. It's a huge guy sitting next to me. Yeah, it's okay, but the gameplay is really something. Man. It's cool. It's one of those, it's a head-to-head, you know. So it's a hockey game and you're playing against a friend. That's like Joust, by the way. He means like it's a single-play field, not like players. There's no back box. Yeah, double-sided pinball machine, basically. Yeah. I thought of a second thing that I think is my favorite part. Someone showed me a picture from the Pinball Olympics, and it's 30 men without their shirts on, Lined up like a human centipede for the pinball sexy men calendar. Oh my God. It's like one long. One giant line of dudes. About 30 dudes? It's about 30 dudes. Wow. Yeah. You said shirtless, right? That's right. Just trying to get the full picture. I mean, you can't do a human centipede wearing a shirt. Yeah. Oh man. I want to undo that image right now. I can't. You can't do that. I can't do it. It's locked in. It would be a human caterpillar, I think. I'm sure we'll see if they had their shirt on. That's true. When do you upgrade to a millipede? That's my question. That's like 100. That's a really good question. Wait, is it about the quantity of men or how many arms that they have? Ooh, yeah. Well, I've got to do some math for that. Sure.
    35:37
    What about you guys? What's something weird that you've never seen at a show before that you saw here? I mean, the thing for me that the one like mod or random thing that I really actually just bought was the snake thing. The pin snake? The pin snake. Oh, that guy's cool. That dude is cool. He's a makeup effects artist. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what he said. Is it Anthony? That sounds right. Yeah, somebody referred me to just go check that out. And like, I've got a T2 at home and he's got a T2 over there and he's just like demonstrating this thing. And I'm like, oh man, it's saved me so much trouble. That would be useful on Winchester with that damn turptable. I would think it'd be super useful for Dune. Absolutely. Yeah, basically like a cleaning tool to snake a cloth through difficult parts of the playfield to reach. And it's just like a simple idea, but it's just like really well executed. It's got segments that kind of like rotate and adjust so it can go through places. It's kind of like a centipede. Kind of like the Pinball Centipede.
    36:42
    Yeah, that thing was cool. That's the only thing here I'm going home with because I can't buy a Winchester apparently. Uh-huh. I know. Yeah, otherwise I would have. I'd sell you mine, but there's absolutely no way in hell I would ever sell it. Because you won't be able to get another one. Not only that, but... Yeah, obviously. It's really, it's like my first game, game. Yeah, yeah. So it means a lot to me. Of course. It's just a special game. Wait, what serial number did you get? I don't have mine yet. We're letting customers get the first wave. Okay, okay. Yeah, I'm curious about that myself. Yeah, I mean, for me too, it's really important to know that I'll have the thing because then I'm emotionally invested in it. Like, I'm looking forward to having it and I want it to reward repeat viewing and that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's really cool that you knew up front that you were going to get one. And you're like, I'm making this art for this thing that I'm going to have in my house. Yeah, that was always part of the dream. And that's like a non-negotiable for me. Yeah, I think me and Don are now going to have to figure out some way to make a game or put music in a game or do something. Something. We'll figure it out. I mean, the whole section is really inspiring. And I think... Put an espresso machine in a game. That's a great idea. Yeah, right. Coinbox. Dumb. Espresso machine. Oh, my God.
    38:02
    What would be the name of it? The name of our espresso game? Yeah. Expresso with an X. That's horrible. That's horrible, Don. That's a horrible name. Don doesn't know. I'm not good off the cuff, man. Yeah, and you don't know anything about coffee either. I really don't. It's a tough question. I really don't. Well, there's shots in the game. There's shots of espresso. Oh, good. We're on to something now. The perfect shot. I don't know. That's too generic. Okay. How about Bean Village? I don't know. Bean Village? I like it. Just live in a bean village. We'll workshop it. Bean traders? Ooh. Nah, it's like a coffee company. Or like bean enforcers. It could be like an 80s buddy cop movie. Ooh. Bean boy. Ooh, bean boys? Bean boys. Or it could be like human centipede.
    38:50
    It's a kind of espresso machine in it. I think that could work. Oh, man. The visuals, dude. You know what I mean? I don't really want to think about coffee in that context. I know, I know. It's just like kind of not doing something. It would solve the food through the next person issue though. Yeah. If you just had coffee.
    39:07
    Feed him. I mean coffee enema, that's the thing, right? Feed him coffee. Oh God. Especially this espresso, dude. Come on now.
    39:16
    Wait, what? I have to get on a plane tomorrow. What are you talking about? No, no, no. He's just saying it's strong. It's not inducing of any. No, no, no. Oh man. Can I go with you? Can we go play Winchester? Moving on. Yes, yes, yes. I think we can wrap this up. We can make maybe make a few shots of espresso and call it a weekend. I have the perfect outro in a way. Okay, go ahead. I couldn't think of anything weird right away, but I would say, you know, like, because we're all weird. Yeah. So it's really hard to think of that. But anyway. Speak for yourself, weirdo. Dude, I've been, I've had so much fun, even though we're stressed because we've had to set all this up. We have to figure out how to ship this back tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. Even though we're leaving in the morning. Dude, everyone has been so freaking cool, including you guys. You've come by multiple times, I think for us a little bit. Mostly for the coffee. The espresso, but also for us a little bit because you've got to hang out with us for a little bit. I didn't know you had espresso when I came by to say hi.
    40:12
    But thank you guys, man, and everyone else that isn't here but that we've talked to and interacted with today. I'm just very grateful for everyone that has been cool to come hang out and just talk to us. Yeah, and it's a micro—I mean, our experience is everyone's experience at Expo. So, yeah, like pinball people are cool people. If you haven't come out to Expo, if you haven't like hung out with other pinball people, you should because it's like it's such a cool community. Dude, I've made more tight, tight friends in the last like three years just doing shows than the rest of my adult life because it forces us to see each other like regularly. Even if it's just once a year, it's still regular. And that like like contained audience or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Captive audience. Thank you. Yeah. I see a lot of these people more often than my own oldest best friends at home. It's true. It's crazy. You've got to be thankful for that weird shared passion that brings all these different minds together regularly to have an experience like Expo. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Thank you guys, man. Thank you. Thank you for having us, man. Let's go play Winchester and drink some espresso. Thanks for listening. We'll have our full Expo impressions and whatnot next episode. And Don is working on a few more videos from Expo, so look for those at Bash Pinball on YouTube. We're also going to have some interviews and game reviews coming up soon. Subscribe to the channel so you don't miss that stuff. Oh, and some folks we met at Expo didn't think the Gorgar story in the last episode was true. Well, I got news for you. We have a short video on our YouTube channel with evidence. Anyway, until next time, let me just remind you of one thing. You rule the universe!
    42:07
    Leave this territory now. Return to your home. Evacuate all personnel. Thank you.