Episode 123: Jerry Power of Player One with special co-host Ryan C.

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·14m 40s·analyzed·Apr 22, 2018

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Jerry Power discusses Player One's pinball business, operator challenges, and advice for new arcade operators.

Summary

Jeff Teolis hosts Jerry Power of Player One (a Cineplex-owned arcade/game distributor in the Greater Toronto Area) on Pinball Profile, with Ryan C. from Head-to-Head Pinball co-hosting. The discussion covers Jerry's entry into pinball at $3/hour in 1975, Player One's expansion to a new 6420 Viscount Road facility in Mississauga, the challenges of maintaining profitability with pinball machines in mixed-game locations, operator economics, and advice for new operators wanting to place machines in bars and restaurants.

Key Claims

Player One was taken over by Cineplex about two years ago and recently expanded to a new facility at 6420 Viscount Road in Mississauga
high confidence · Jerry Power directly states this corporate history and new location.
Pinball machines typically rank in the bottom 10-50 performers in mixed-game locations with 50 games, making it economically difficult to justify their placement and maintenance
high confidence · Jerry directly explains the economics: pinball draws poorly compared to redemption games in mixed locations, making weekly/bi-weekly cleaning uneconomical.
Pinball 2000 machines had more advanced operator features (profit tracking, error reporting, earnings graphs by time of day) than current Spike-based machines
high confidence · Jeff states Pinball 2000 was 'more advanced than what we have now' and describes the specific features available then.
Specialized pinball-focused arcades (barcades) like Silver Ball Saloon, New Place Pin-Up Arcade, and Tilt are more viable for pinball operators than mixed-game locations
high confidence · Jerry and Jeff discuss how dedicated pinball venues with hands-on operator presence (Dan, Che, Bruce Nightingale) succeed better than mixed-game rec rooms.
New pinball machines generally maintain or increase in resale value, making them a better investment than older arcade games
high confidence · Jeff and Ryan agree that new machines are a safe financial investment with preserved/appreciating value, unlike many older arcade products.
Ryan C. started placing machines on location about six months ago at an already-established pinball venue
high confidence · Ryan states: 'I've only started Siding Machines about six months ago. Oh, really? Yeah, and it was at a pinball place already, so it was well established.'
Pro-level pinball machines with fewer moving parts are recommended over Premium/LE for bar/pub placements due to lower maintenance complexity
medium confidence · Jerry and Jeff recommend Pro models and CE variants as 'entry level' with 'less moving parts' for operator profitability in bar settings.

Notable Quotes

“It was by mistake. I went down for an interview on my way to another place and stopped in. And the guy said, fill out an interview sheet. Can you tell us what a schematic looks like? And you can start tomorrow. $3 an hour and you get your own truck.”
Jerry Power @ Early in interview — Jerry's origin story entering pinball in 1975; establishes his long tenure and informal entry into the industry.
“If we have 50 games in a location, pinballs may draw on the bottom 10 or bottom 50. We understand both sides of it. If a game is not well maintained, people won't want to play it. But by the same token, if people don't play it, it's not earning and we don't make money on it.”
Jerry Power @ Mid-interview — Core explanation of the economic catch-22 facing operators trying to place pinball in mixed-game venues.
“I think Pinball 2000 was, I think, still more advanced than what we have now, where it would tell you what time of the day is the machine making the most money, when errors popped up, and it would give you a graph of your earnings.”
Jeff Teolis @ Mid-interview — Nostalgia for lost operator features; signals potential gap in modern machine data capabilities vs. legacy systems.
“Well, I mean, I guess they know when they're earning money from alcohol sales. But if people stop playing their pinball machines at a certain time, then they know that they might change their operating hours based on that. Because maybe their pinball machine, when the dollars go in, that aligns with alcohol being purchased.”
Jeff Teolis @ Mid-interview — Articulates the synergy between pinball and bar revenue; suggests pinball's value extends beyond direct coin drop.
“basically, they just pay for electricity and they receive a profit share from it. So, the sales pitch is there. But the biggest downside, I guess, for them is the space, the real estate that it takes up in the bar.”
Ryan C. @ Late-interview — Practical operator advice for pitching machines to bar owners; identifies space as key objection.
“They are profitable machines. If you look after them you maintain them properly People need to understand it started off with guys like Jerry and Jeff going out buying a pinball putting it in a bar When it broke down you put it in your truck bought it back to the shop brought it back out when it was fixed.”

Entities

Jerry PowerpersonRyan C.person Jeff Teolisperson Player OnecompanyCineplexcompanySilver Ball SalooncompanyTiltcompany

Signals

?
business_signal: Player One (historic Palladium) acquired by Cineplex ~2 years ago and expanded to new 6420 Viscount Road facility in Mississauga; represents consolidation of independent arcade operator into larger corporate entertainment portfolio.
high · Jerry: 'We were taken over by Cineplex about two years ago, and we've expanded and moved into a new facility up at 6420 Viscount Road in Mississauga.'
?
community_signal: Player One and Greater Toronto Area pinball community organizing tournaments and championships; IFPA 15 upcoming with local operator participation; growing competitive/tournament infrastructure in region.
medium · Jeff mentions Canadian National Exhibition championship and upcoming IFPA 15 event with Player One involvement and community participation.
?
event_signal: Canadian National Exhibition pinball championship in Toronto drew new machines and community support; positioned as significant regional competitive event with Player One backing.
medium · Jeff: 'last year we saw this huge first-time Canadian National Exhibition great pinball championship... Player One. Donated a lot to that end.'
$
market_signal: Dedicated pinball-focused arcades/barcades (Silver Ball Saloon, Tilt, New Place Pin-Up, Cabin Fever) with hands-on operator presence significantly outperform mixed-game locations; emerging viable niche business model.
high · Jerry and Jeff discuss how operators like Dan, Che, Bruce, Robin succeed by focusing entirely on pinball and maintaining machines personally, unlike mixed-game rec rooms.
?
operational_signal: Operators struggling with pinball profitability in mixed-game venues (rec rooms, arcades with redemption games) while collectors/dedicated venues thrive; fundamental misalignment between location operators and pinball enthusiasts on game placement viability.

Topics

Operator economics and profitability in mixed-game venuesprimaryPinball machine maintenance and reliability in commercial settingsprimaryDedicated pinball arcades (barcades) vs. mixed-game rec roomsprimaryPlayer One's business history and expansion under Cineplex ownershipprimaryAdvice for new operators placing machines in bars/restaurantsprimaryPro vs. Premium/LE machine selection for location placementsecondaryLegacy operator data features (Pinball 2000) vs. modern systemssecondaryPinball resale value and collector market trendssecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.72)— Warm, collaborative tone between hosts and guest. Jerry speaks candidly about business challenges without bitterness. Ryan's humor adds levity. Some frustration evident regarding operator maintenance challenges and Pinline-SIG criticism, but framed constructively. Jeff expresses appreciation for Player One's community contributions. Overall supportive of pinball's niche viability.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.044

It's time for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teolas, here with a special guest, Ryan C. Hey, Ryan. G'day, mate. How are you going? He's here in Toronto, so I'm going to teach him how to do an interview process. I know you've got some questions. So let's get somebody who knows a little bit about pinball and pinball sales. We've got Jerry Power from Player One here. How are you? Fantastic. How are you? Okay, so Ryan does a podcast called Head-to-Head Pinball. It's really, really funny. Not a lot of good quality content. So much from Ryan. Martin's fantastic. I wish Martin was here, but he'll be here in July. I'll introduce you to them. But let's talk about your history in pinball. I'm going to let Ryan ask the first question. I already know what it's going to be. Jerry, how did you get into pinball? It was by mistake. It was a mistake. I went down for an interview on my way to another place and stopped in. And the guy said, fill out an interview sheet. Can you tell us what a schematic looks like? And you can start tomorrow. $3 an hour and you get your own truck. $3 an hour. Sounds good, right? It sounds fantastic. Ryan, second question. I'll even give it to you. I have no idea what you're going to ask. I don't know. All right. See, when you go to events, and you were at Texas, you could throw out your phone and ask some questions. But you're saying you're tired. I'm very tired. I've had the same amount of sleep you have. You're Jeff Teal, as I said. You're the big red. It means nothing. It does. Come on. Top 100 ranked IFBA player? Whatever that is. You've been smack talking this entire time we've been here. Listen, I might have won a few dollars here at Player One, but all right, I'll take it over from here, Ryan. I think it was only a dollar that you're up, just for anybody who's listening, okay? I don't know the currencies. An Australian dollar worth more than a Canadian? It's about the same. It's about the same? Yeah. You should have went U.S. You just came back from New York, darn it. You buy two sheep. So for those who know Player One, you probably knew Palladium beforehand, but there's been some changes in the last year. Do you want to talk about the changes? Most of the changes are really just corporate. We were taken over by Cineplex about two years ago, and we've expanded and moved into a new facility up at 6420 Viscount Road in Mississauga. That's a plug. It's right by the airport, too. I picked up Ryan and came right here. It's just a walk away. That's exactly what it is. And since then, we've expanded, and we're trying to get back into the pinball world a little bit easier than, I guess, what people would have wanted. So hopefully, you know, small steps. We hope to do a lot more over the next year or so. Much bigger facility here at Player One, and a lot of people come here, obviously, to buy their new games. And you certainly have a great catalog. We have a nice little view of the showroom in the back. and also, too, the Redemption games and some of the other things, too, that John Youssi at rec rooms, which are popping up all over Canada, and some of the existing playrooms. All the Cineplex theaters the same way. So that's kind of one of our ventures that goes into it. It's another part of our business, one of many ventures that we get into. Now, pinball players are obviously looking for places to play pinball, but from a business standpoint. We're open Monday to Friday, 9 to 5. And all games are on free play. That's right. And I do kick you out at 5. What time is it? It's almost 6 o'clock. But anyway, Jerry, here's the thing. The reality of the business side of pinball is when you have choices of redemption games and pinball and foosball and bubble hockey and video games, it's tougher for pinball machines to make returns compared to the redemption game. Is that a fair statement? Very accurate. The problem we run into is economies of scale just don't facilitate having more pinballs in a location. If we have 50 games in a location, pinballs may draw on the bottom 10 or bottom 50. We understand both sides of it. If a game is not well maintained, people won't want to play it. But by the same token, if people don't play it, it's not earning and we don't make money on it. So it tough to get in there every week and clean a pinball every two weeks the way it should We working on how we figure that out But until we do it tough to keep putting pinballs out and operating them and trying to make an economic return that makes sense to put more pinballs into a place So go easy on us guys on your bashing of our sites a bit. Oh, yeah. Don't worry. You know what? Just a lot of times you do get scared. Pay no attention to pin side. That's rule number one. Yeah. But a lot of them, we understand that, yes, the pinballs are dirty and stuff that's there. It's tough to go in and spend two hours on a pinball. and that's all the time you have to do a whole arcade. That's the key. You've got one of those claw games. What's your maintenance on that? Filling up with stuffed animals, right? It's pretty much it. That's it. Okay. Now, Ryan is a bit of an operator in Australia too. So tell us about your pinball machines on location and the difficulties you have as an operator. I guess most... In English, please. If that was, sorry. I think most of it comes from the bar staff not being pinball people, I guess. So if I ring them up and say, hey, I'm going to come and do a collection, what do I need to bring? Is anything broken? And they say, no, no, everything's fine. And then I rock up there and a flip is broken or something like that. So I guess it's the communication where I can put my number on there and say, please call if there's any issue. But people always assume that someone else is going to call for them and no one seems to message. The machines are pretty reliable anyway, but they do need constant cleaning. Rubbers break all the time. And if it's a sling, then the machine isn't going to earn money and going to operate properly if something as simple as a 50-cent rubber is broken. I haven't been to Australia, but I assume anything goes. So do they smoke in the pubs there? 100% not. Oh, okay. Okay, good. Wow. It's illegal. It's the one law they do. Okay, that's good. Now, maybe there's an app for a manufacturer to do is when there is an error, to have something that goes back onto your phone so you can at least see if you've got a switch or error, something that's broken. They're never going to be able to, I guess, tell... On mic, maybe? That's another little tip there, kid. Whenever you're talking, make sure the microphone's on. Go ahead. They're never going to be able to monitor if a rubber is broken, but 100% with the newer Spike system, it's basically running a Linux kernel, and with JJP's machines as well, there's no reason why they can't not only let you know if there's an error, but also give you operator profits and let you know. So I think Pinball 2000 was, I think, still more advanced than what we have now, where it would tell you what time of the day is the machine making the most money, when errors popped up, and it would give you a graph of your earnings. And I'm not a big-time operator, but that kind of stuff would make me more excited. And, you know, it'd be easier to know what's working and what isn't, right? If you had more statistics. I mean, would you be able to get some proper data, or would you go to somebody like Martin who's a little more clever? Well, I mean, it would be good data for people that run the bar as well. I mean, I guess they know when they're earning money from alcohol sales. But if people stop playing their pinball machines at a certain time, then they know that they might change their operating hours based on that. Because maybe their pinball machine, when the dollars go in, that aligns with alcohol being purchased. I'm excited to see the growth of the barcades that are popping up. Ryan and I have a mutual friend in Bruce Nightingale, who operates the Silver Ball Saloon. Hello, Bruce. In Rochester, New York, 22 amazing pins, new and old. And that's been a big part of his bar. You know people here in the greater Toronto area like Dan Beeson and Che Kernu. He's got New Place Pin-Up Arcade in Waterloo. We've got Dan with Tilt and some of the games he has at Cabin Fever. So those are primarily unlike a lot of the rec rooms and other redemption type places primarily pinball Do you think it easier for an operator to go one way or another Like is it hard to do both I mean, when I look at the rec rooms and some of these other places, you might see one or two pins there. But the majority of those people are flocking to the redemption games. Whereas something that is unique, like a specific pinball arcade, is going to be a lot better. I mean, obviously, you're not comparing it to redemption games. but that's where the people are going to go if they want to play pinball versus a rec room. For value-added service, you're probably going to go more towards redemption and merchandising than you will pinball. If you're a good pinball player, we've seen you guys dominate for, well, I've seen you sit for a half hour on a game. Ryan was there for two or three minutes as well. Oh, he's waiting for me. But the problem we run into is we would starve to death if you came into our arcade. But on the flip side of it, somebody who's not familiar with pinball that drops $3 in for two games may be finished in under a minute. So back in the heyday, these machines would go to the arcades. Obviously, that has switched, and now we're seeing the collectors, especially when companies like Stern have the Pro, the Premium, the LE, and the collectors, that's obviously the bulk of your business. It's a fair share of it. I think still more people are buying Pros, just the fact that that's the entry level that's there. But if you go on the street, you go somewhere like Cabin Fever, they have all Premiums and LEs down there. She's got nine games, and Robin does a fantastic job. She has a nice little niche because she can get into the locations, clean all the games herself, and she's got hands-on. Dan does the same at Till. Yeah, those are on the corner. Yeah, just down the street. Dan's not, he does the same thing with Dan and Evan. Che has Pablos and pin-up. He'll do the same thing there. Because he's there 24-7, he can look after the games. Our techs are going in once every two or three days to do the major maintenance. Okay, everybody listening to Pinball Profile is a big pinball fan. I'm going to ask the same question to both of you. All right. Ryan, again, I hope you're taking notes, but here's a good question. If you had a bunch of machines and you're listening to Pinball Profile and you were trying to think, okay, you know what, there are no locations. What is some good advice to maybe go into a bar, into a restaurant, some sort of pub, and say, I've got one or two machines, I wouldn't mind putting it in there. That obviously happened to you about four years ago when you first got in there. What's some good advice for people, as long as they're not in the Melbourne area because they're cutting into your turf. What's some good advice you could give? Well, no. Okay, I've only started Siding Machines about six months ago. Oh, really? Yeah, and it was at a pinball place already, so it was well established. But it is something that I might try and work on. So I guess the sales pitch is if you're trying to make money off people that are sitting there drinking alcohol, right, you need to keep them there, right? And what keeps people there? A good conversation, right? But if you have something that they can play and it's one player playing one person drinking, that's going to keep people there longer. So, when machines are expensive, you can blab on about how expensive they are and how there's no upfront cost to them. And basically, they just pay for electricity and they receive a profit share from it. So, the sales pitch is there. But the biggest downside, I guess, for them is the space, the real estate that it takes up in the bar. So, you have to kind of convince them that it's not going to take away from their sales. Same question to you, Jerry. If someone's thinking about putting pins that they own or they're going to come here to Player One and purchase some and maybe put them into place, some suggestions you would have? I would say take a few minutes. Learn from somebody who's experienced. We'll sit you through it. I just started much the same as Ryan. I got into it in 75. I might have a year or two on them. 75, that's a coincidence. That's a coincidence. That's his IQ. Go on. Oh, nice. Almost my age. Not too bad. So basically, that would be the thing to do. I mean, they are profitable machines. If you look after them you maintain them properly People need to understand it started off with guys like Jerry and Jeff going out buying a pinball putting it in a bar When it broke down you put it in your truck bought it back to the shop brought it back out when it was fixed Great that everybody got them in their house, but it's a steel ball, rubber, plastic, and glass rolling on wood. Something will happen, but if you clean it and look after it properly, you're going to make money. And also too, coin drop aside, let's look at the economy of pinball machines lately. You buy a machine, new in box, you buy a machine that, for the most part, is only going to maintain its price or go up. This is something that is good advice. If you're looking to get your first pinball machine, the best thing I can say is it will keep its value and probably go up. Agree, Ryan? 100%. I guess if you're buying machines for on-site, the Pro is probably the better one that makes more financial sense. But if you buy in the second-hand market, I've got my Hobbit LE on-site, and yeah, it's earning good money. Okay. Most locations, I mean, we talked about cabin fever with the VLEs, but yeah, do you agree that it's probably better to put a pro into a pub or a bar or an arcade? I think pros, the CEs certainly that are out now by Planetary Pinball, they're the direction no different than certainly the dialed-ins. If you're doing the standard model that's there, less moving parts, still a fun game to play. That's really the entry level that's on. Just make sure you go out every week or two and just maintain it. Just keep it clean and keep it level. It'll do you good money. And at the end of it, don't forget, you can still bring it home. That's true, yeah. So I think you're taking it to the dump. And, you know, it was not the case in the old days. Sadly, it was. A lot of them did wind up in the dumpsters. We know companies that sold and just kind of threw it all in the dumpster and dragged it off because it wasn't worth having a guy come in and beat him up for a couple hundred dollars to take it. Speaking of dump, Ryan, it's been great talking to you, and I appreciate you coming in. Thanks for, have you learned anything about this podcasting thing? I know you're still kind of new, although you are a Twippy finalist. I mean, that begging was great. It didn't quite get you over the top. I've learned that you, Jeff, you do a lot of editing. Oh, not one, honest. I've been recording the real version. I'll release it after you release yours. Mispronouncing the name about seven times. Okay. What was the guy's name again? Jerry Power? No. Che Kernu? Yeah, him. Che Kernu, Che Kernu. Yeah, exactly. Before it was Che Kernu. Say John Trudeau. John Trudeau. Say it the real way. John Trudeau. Yeah, yeah, nice try. Don't worry, you don't have to say that name. Anyway, Jerry, thanks very much. Sorry about Ryan, but... He's entertaining. Well, yeah, I know. It's kind of neat to see this wonderful Player One facility. And also, too, and I said this to you, too, in the last, not even full year, but I've just noticed a great increase in the Toronto area. If you're ever coming to some of these events, last year we saw this huge first-time Canadian National Exhibition great pinball championship, and you looked at all these brand-new machines, and there it was, Player One. Donated a lot to that end. for those coming to the IFPA 15 and Adam Beckers. I know you're going to be a part of that too. So thanks for what you're doing in the community, Jerry. Well, I want to thank the community as well. If it's not for Eddie and Steve, certainly, and Walt, Scott, all the guys that were down at C&E, we probably would not have been able to take part. So we were all kind of working as a team and I think full kudos to, I think to Eddie probably and Steve for what they did. And I know I'm probably missing a name or two that are there, but they were the ones who kind of put us initially on the map. Hopefully this year and next year we can do a lot more than what we did So check out the website for Player One. Winwithp1ag.com. All right. And if you're in the greater Toronto area, 6420 Viscount Road. And ask for Jerry Power. It's been great talking to you. Thanks. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you very much, guys. How do you end your podcasts? What do you guys do? You sing, don't you? This has been another Pinball Profile from Jeff Teowas. You can find us on iTunes. Subscribe to us, please, on Twitter. I'm Jeff Teowas. Not bad. Is that right? Good enough. Thanks.