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Episode 65 - Die on this Hill: Wheel of Fortune

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·45m 11s·analyzed·Jan 13, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Wedgehead podcast defends underrated 2007 Wheel of Fortune pinball against community criticism.

Summary

Hosts Alan (Wedgehead owner) and guests Ryan and Scott (Pinball Map creators) defend Wheel of Fortune (2007, Stern/Dennis Nordman) in the 'Die on this Hill' format. Scott argues the game's 'wet' aesthetic, non-standard flipper layout, and campy charm make it underrated despite its #254 ranking on Pinside and commercial failure. The episode critiques negative reviews while exploring why the game resonates with some players and discussing its unfinished code, theme licensing strategy, and design philosophy.

Key Claims

  • Wheel of Fortune has only 1,000 units manufactured and one remaining in Portland at a pickleball venue

    medium confidence · Scott mentioned production numbers and current location scarcity

  • The game was never finished with complete code and has no wizard mode

    high confidence · Scott: 'I don't know that they did finish the code for this game, and they never did... there's no wizard mode to it'; corroborated by negative review from Lou Knees about unfinished coding

  • Wheel of Fortune was marketed toward Europe where it also failed, as the TV show had different hosts and language versions there

    medium confidence · Alan discusses European localization strategy backfiring; Scott mentions Stern's mistaken belief Europe would embrace the game

  • Stern was struggling during Wheel of Fortune's 2007 development period with layoffs occurring

    medium confidence · Scott: 'there was sort of a crash... a lot of people in Stern were laid off' around this time period

  • Pat Sajak recorded custom callouts for the pinball machine

    medium confidence · Scott discussing Sajak's involvement; Alan confirms pattern from other games like 24 (Chloe from TV show) and CSI

  • The bobbleheads on Wheel of Fortune are likenesses of actual Stern employees: Lonnie Ropp, Dwight Sullivan, Keith Johnson (programmer), and Maria Alejandra (assembly line worker)

    high confidence · Scott and Alan identify specific Stern staff memorialized in bobbleheads

  • Uncanny X-Men (2024) is the first Stern machine since Wheel of Fortune (2007) to feature non-standard flipper arrangement

    high confidence · Alan: 'until the Uncanny X-Men, which just came out by Stern this year, this was the last game to have a non-standard flipper arrangement'

  • Wheel of Fortune ranks #254 out of 306 machines on Pinside Top 100 list

    high confidence · Stated in episode intro and confirmed by guest reaction

Notable Quotes

  • “For me Wheel of Fortune pinball, this sounds like hyperbole, but I really do feel this way. It is an affirmation that we all die soon and alone. And that this machine confirms that there's nothing in between that that actually matters.”

    Scott @ mid-episode — Captures the existential, philosophical defense of the game beyond mechanical appreciation

  • “The machine looks wet... I think it's way ahead of its time... Wheel of Fortune made me feel welcome.”

    Scott @ early-episode — Core aesthetic argument for why the game resonates despite low rankings; contrasts with John Wick's 'gross' appearance

  • “What is fun alan like when you walk up to that pinball machine what is it gonna take for you to walk away feeling good about your time there... Wheel of Fortune's there for you.”

    Scott @ mid-episode — Philosophical defense reframing 'fun' and accessibility against competitive/achievement-based pinball culture

  • “I'm not very good at pinball. Like I never have been, and I never will be. And the fact that this machine is so jarring made me feel like it was a safe place to express that to a pinball machine.”

    Scott @ segment discussing negative review — Unique defense angle: the non-standard layout makes poor play feel like machine design, not player failure

  • “I immediately am drawn like a moth to the flame for any different flipper placement.”

    Scott @ late-episode — Reveals aesthetic/design philosophy preference that explains appreciation of Wheel of Fortune's quirk

  • “it's like everyone's like it's all derivative cookie cutter bs right god forbid you know put the center drain that they put on this game onto a game everyone freaks the fuck out”

    Scott @ late-episode — Critique of pinball community's contradiction: demand innovation but reject meaningful design changes

  • “The design team from dennis nordman you listen to the show i love dennis nordman i think dennis nordman is the man i love his layouts.”

    Alan — Establishes Alan's pedigree-based respect for Nordman despite game's poor reception

Entities

Wheel of FortunegameAlanpersonScottpersonRyanpersonDennis NordmanpersonKeith JohnsonpersonDavid Thielperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern's 2007 period involved layoffs and financial constraints; Wheel of Fortune was commercial failure on location (poor earnings vs Spider-Man, Family Guy, Pirates of Caribbean); removed from Wedgehead due to lack of play/revenue

    high · Alan: machine 'was not a popular game. It was not an earner.' Scott: 'a lot of people in Stern were laid off' during this period

  • ?

    community_signal: Wheel of Fortune remains divisive: #254 ranking on Pinside contradicts passionate defender community; community consensus frames it as failed experiment, but defenders see unappreciated gem

    high · Rankings, negative reviews read aloud, Scott's philosophical reframing of 'failure'

  • ?

    community_signal: Wedgehead podcast 'Die on this Hill' format creates space for defenders of critically panned games; Pinball Map creators (Scott, Ryan) leverage platform to reframe undervalued machines; appeals to contrarian collectors and EM enthusiasts

    high · Episode structure, guest selection, Scott's passionate philosophical defense, invitation for 24 defenders at episode end

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Wheel of Fortune explicitly NOT positioned as tournament machine; backglass tagline 'play pinball. it's more fun to compete' rings hollow for non-competitive casual play; lacks tournament depth/replayability vs. peers

    medium · Scott questioning tournament viability; backglass message noted as ironic; Grubo review cites lack of complex storyline engagement

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Negative reviews coalesce around: cartoonish/cheap bobblehead aesthetics, non-standard flipper frustration for experienced players, 'rainbow splash' artwork lacking coherence, Pat Sajak's giant head intimidation factor, unexciting audio/music despite Thiel's reputation

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.136

0:00
You signed your real name? Of course I did. If you believe in something, you sign your name to it. Alright, I'm gonna tell you right now. I ain't crazy.
0:08
This is the ground you'll die on. Are you sure? Oh my god, are you serious? Son, people can see you. I don't tell you what to do with your money. Don't fucking tell me what to do with mine, okay? I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I will defend myself. He means it, sweetheart. Well, that's because you're an idiot. I will fight and win because I am the most intelligent. You sure about that? I got something I want to say. Well, you motherfuckers think you know who Kenny Powers is. Well, I'm here today to tell you all you don't know shit. Oh, I give up. You're going to get yourself killed, and this time I won't be able to save you. I make you laugh. I'm a clown. I amuse you. I'm here to fucking amuse you. Come on, don't bullshit me. Go ahead and go, but I'm not going to stop yelling, because then that'll mean I lost the fight. So, please leave a T under the mat. I love y'all very much. Peace out.
1:10
Serenity now! Serenity now! What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine, but this makes no sense.
1:41
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Wedget Pinball Podcast. Once again, I'm Alan, your host of this podcast and one of the owners of Wedgehead, a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon, doing another episode, another edition of our Die on this Hill episode series. Without my trusty sidekick, it's Alex the Waterboy once again. This is where we invite different guests onto the show to defend an unpopular or commonly shit upon pinball machine that they unironically love. And this week is special because I welcome back to the show Ryan and Scott, creators and developers of the Pinball Map, because Scott is here to defend his guy on the hill game, which is 2007's Wheel of Fortune by Stern Pinball, designed by Dennis Nordman, software by Keith Johnson, featuring sound by David Thiel. There's a whole lot of talent on this design team, but the game itself currently sits at number 254 on the pin side list out of a possible 306 machines. so welcome back Ryan and Scott and Scott I need you to tell us why you love Wheel of Fortune man yeah wow why you're here 254 I didn't realize it was so low geez well right off the bat why do you think it's that low what um I I think I have an idea I I I've been agonizing over this because I heard this segment on your podcast Wheel of Fortune immediately popped into my head I was like that is my game but as you're doing that intro there you threw out the word ironically love and i'm worried i'm gonna be out a little bit here let me tell it in two two different ways okay because i i did my research i think i i understand why people would love this game but i'll be up front with you about why i love this game um first of all so the pedigree is there right like this is dennis nordman he made your favorite game alan that's right okay nordman's quote was that this is a classic complete a sequence pinball machine which i think he's trying to say is pretty straightforward pinball machine you just spell stuff right like yeah you hit things in order and stuff happens great there were only a thousand of these made and there's only one of them in portland right now uh and it's at that pickleball place out on 82nd so i want to talk to you about getting one at wedgehead in a little bit here but there are two two forking paths for why I like this. The official reason is the immaculate vibes, Alan. I started playing pinball aggressively in like 2005. This machine came out in 2007. And I think it came out, I'm probably getting this wrong, like around the time that second Indiana Jones machine came out. Okay, okay. This is what I saw as sort of the downfall or the tailspin of licensed pinball machines. And I will never forget seeing Wheel of Fortune show up and being amongst this crowd of like ex-punk rock, like kind of angry. I show up every week and play pinball and I'm really hardcore about it. Having to fit Wheel of Fortune into their life. They were mad in a competitive pinball scene. Like it was weird watching people try to make this game fit. For me, Wheel of Fortune pinball, this sounds like hyperbole, but I really do feel this way. It is an affirmation that we all die soon and alone. And that this machine confirms that there's nothing in between that that actually matters. Like it can take something that means so much to you and put that back glass in front of your face. And I just loved it. Like the actual reason I think people like it. Oh, yeah. One more thing. The game looks wet. This is a machine that looks wet. And I think it's way ahead of its time. Like John Wick, that is a machine that looks wet in a very off-putting way to me. It looks gross. John Wick. Oh, really? Yeah, I don't like it. I'm sorry. Like, I'm not saying, I'm not trying to insult artists or anything like that. I just look at that machine and it makes my, it makes me feel gross. But Wheel of Fortune made me feel welcome.
@ mid-episode

  • “Spy Hunter is probably why it gets left on the side of the road in glendale you know what i mean there's a home for every pinball machine except for spy hunter”

    Scott @ late-episode — Humorous reference to bottom-ranked games; #303 out of 307 on Pinside

    • Pat Sajak
    person
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Wedgeheadorganization
    Pinball Maporganization
    Uncanny X-Mengame
    Pinsideorganization
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Spider-Mangame
    Family Guygame
    CSIgame
    24game
    Spy Huntergame
    Lonnie Roppperson
    Dwight Sullivanperson
    Maria Alejandraperson
    Voodoo Donuts 2organization
    Shanghai Tunnelorganization

    high · Multiple negative reviews read aloud critiquing bobbleheads, flipper layout, artwork, audio, Pat Sajak prominence

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Tension between innovation and tradition in pinball design: community demands 'something new' but rejects meaningful mechanical changes like non-standard flipper spacing or center drains

    high · Scott: 'everyone's like it's all derivative cookie cutter bs... don't change the in lanes or the flipper placement... don't put a pop bumper down there... don't change anything meaningfully'

  • $

    market_signal: Emerging defender narrative reframes 'failed' games through lens of accessibility, aesthetic appreciation, and rejection of competitive/achievement-focused pinball culture; champions 'weird' design as honest artistic expression over market-tested formulas

    medium · Scott's entire defense philosophy; comparison to campy B-movies; emphasis on 'immaculate vibes' over gameplay metrics

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Wheel of Fortune theme licensing strategy backfired: game designed for European market where Wheel of Fortune had different hosts/language versions; European rejection mirrored US indifference despite traditional European pinball preference

    medium · Alan: 'concept was gonna do better in europe but they actually didn't have Wheel of Fortune the show in Europe, so it sort of backfired'

  • $

    market_signal: Wheel of Fortune's scarcity (1,000 units total, one remaining in Portland) and depressed secondary market pricing ($2,500 on Craigslist) indicate low collector demand despite boutique availability

    medium · Scott: '1,000 made... one in portland... Craigslist going for $2,500... there for a lot longer than expected'

  • ?

    community_signal: Design team talent (Dennis Nordman, Keith Johnson, David Thiel) was world-class, suggesting execution/scope constraints rather than designer failures; unfinished code indicates rushed production or resource allocation issues

    high · Alan praising pedigree; Scott acknowledging team quality while attributing issues to unfinished code and Stern's crisis period

  • ?

    product_concern: Wheel of Fortune shipped with incomplete code and missing wizard mode due to Stern financial/personnel crisis circa 2007; unfinished state cited in negative reviews as design failure

    high · Scott: 'they didn't finish the code for this game, and they never did... there's no wizard mode'; Lou Knees review criticizes 'unfinished coding'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Wheel of Fortune represents transitional period in Stern's design evolution (2007): unfinished code, missing wizard mode contrasts with earlier EM machines' mechanical simplicity and later games' elaborate code depth; marks production crisis era

    medium · Scott noting it's 'between' EM era and modern complexity; unfinished code as design failure specific to this period

    • 5:54
    It's a machine that I think works really well with those LEDs that everyone gets so mad about. Like, everyone wants the warm, ancient bulbs, which is cool, I get it. But I think this one, actually, you could put some garish LEDs on it and it works, fits right in. As new players coming to Wheel of Fortune, that drain in the center looks enormous. It's massive, and it's really intimidating. It's like two drains. Yeah. But anyway, here's where I think I'm going to pull you in, Alan. I don't know your feelings on Wheel of Fortune yet, but this is sort of a classic EM machine that you have to nudge to have any sort of effect on it whatsoever. What do you think about that? I like Wheel of Fortune. I think it's a fun game. It's a fun game. I never thought about it looking wet before, but I can see what you're saying. It has a glisten to the whole thing. But yeah, what Scott's discussing right now, if you've never played a Wheel of Fortune, is it doesn't have a standard Italian bottom with the slings and the inlanes and the flippers. They're all pretty much there in the same position, but in between the set or gap, separate kind of lanes and a post in between where you can bounce the ball up And that is my absolute favorite part about old EMs is when people ask me like why I like EMs and it's complicated, but it's really that I really love that EMs force you to nudge and really nudge, not just like slam a game around after the ball's going down the out lane to try to death save or whatever. I mean, like nudge the ball from a drain, like tap the ball up and back onto a flipper to then make the shot. And this game, until the Uncanny X-Men, which just came out by Stern this year, this was the last game to have a non-standard flipper arrangement. And up until this point, it had been a while. You know, it had been, like, this was 2007. And so it had been probably 20 years almost since they had done something like this. And then since this to Uncanny X-Men, again, you're starting to get to the, oh, wow, it comes in cycles, right? Like every 20 years we get a weirdo kind of lower mess with the flipper alignment. I like this game. We used to have one. I don't, unfortunately, Scott, I don't believe, I think Rhodesie sold it. It might be that's why that's the one that's out at the pickleball place now. Well, there was one on Craigslist that was going for like $2,500 or something, and it was there for a lot longer than I expected. So when you had it, was it on location at Wedgehead? we have it at wedge for a little bit but i will echo your point is what's interesting about this game before we get into the reviews is man the theme seems to be extremely off-putting to pinball players like i do wonder i know stern was a small kind of struggling company at this point i heard that it was supposedly the concept was gonna do better in europe but that they actually didn't have Wheel of Fortune the show in Europe, so it sort of backfired. I'm pretty sure, I might be wrong, but I think there are many Wheel of Fortunes. I think there are European Wheel of Fortunes with different hosts, totally different language. Well, I heard that this game, I think the concept was that, oh, this will do well in Europe, and Europe has been a traditionally hotbed for pinball games. In fact, in the 90s, the sort of famous that 60% of the games went over to Europe and they got the games first. And it was a bigger scene than the US, even though they were all manufactured here. So back when pinball was an on location manufacturing games business that used to matter a lot more. But from what I understand is like their response was just like the American response, which is like, OK, but why? OK, well, why do we have this? Like, we don't want this. Like, nobody wants Wheel of Fortune as a pinball machine, which is interesting because, like, on a surface level, what Dennis said about that game is you're like, yeah, the reason why they used to make pinball machines based on billiards or poker or whatever is that you as the pinball player already have, are bringing in some knowledge of this other game into the game you're currently playing. And that helps you understand the rules and how to play this game, you know, because like sometimes pinball can be mystifying, right? Like to new players, especially for dude, especially modern games like modern games are like absolutely mystifying. Even for me, who's someone that plays all the time. I love the theme of it. I don't care about Wheel of Fortune, but I love that they put out a Wheel of Fortune game. I like actually like licensed properties, but I'm tired of rock and roll bands and stuff like that. I wish they would do like Mrs. Fields cookies, the pinball machine. Like just pick something and just go with it. Like I thought Wheel of Fortune was a fine choice. I looked to see if this was ever a prize on Wheel of Fortune and unfortunately was not able to figure that out. But could you imagine, Alan, like watching an episode, yeah, where this pinball machine was featured? It might have been. It would have been cool. I think we got to start reading you some of these bad reviews and getting your takes on them Okay So I start with the first one and then Ryan will join in and we just sort of alternate But the first one is Imagineery says I'm not a fan of the show. Considering the apparent attempt made to integrate the theme into this pin and how much that doesn't work, makes me wonder how this particular pin came into existence at all. The playfield layout has some decent shots, but the overall gameplay is just confusing and not much fun.
    11:42
    sure it is confusing and frankly it's not much fun but uh what is pinball like what are we even doing here whoa whoa whoa you think it's not much fun you well sure i mean what is fun alan like when you walk up to that pinball machine what is it gonna take for you to walk away feeling good about your time there is it a high score is it the friends that you meet while you're playing the game. Like, I don't know, I would argue that that dollar goes into any machine and you walk away the same person. Wheel of Fortune's there for you. Do you have anything to say about it, Ryan? Yeah, I mean, I could see some personal growth occurring during a good game. I mean, one, you're tracking your scores in some way, at least in your head. You know, like my top score is 20 million. If you get to 30 million the next time, I mean, I feel like you've earned something. You could walk away with a, you know, a kick in your stride, you know, gain some confidence. Sure. But Ryan, do you know what the puzzle on the back glass says? Do you remember this? I don't remember. It says, play pinball. It's more fun to compete. But why? Like, why are we competing? Why are we competing at all? Like, Wheel of Fortune, are you really competing against the other people that you're spinning with? Or are you just playing your own game? You know, I feel like maybe that could be a world where Wheel of Fortune pinball makes sense. Is this a tournament game? Probably not. Like, Alan, if this was when this was on the floor at Wedgehead, I'm curious, was it dialed in like factory or did you allow for more nudging to occur? It was only on the floor for a short time because it was not a popular game. It was not an earner. OK. We had it when we were still on coin op and people did not want to play it. I think they mostly said that it just looked wet. They felt uncomfortable touching it. yeah and you know pat sajak has a gigantic head and it's up there on the back glass even larger than life and you know maybe it's some it's intimidating a little bit to walk up to that and just be face to face with giant pat sajak that's a jack's never done me wrong all right anyway great review all right another review here from dr sfmd perhaps like most stern titles it Looks and feels cheap. It's a simply awful theme for a pinball, but the gameplay itself is okay. I'd play it again, but it's not one I have a need to own. That's fair. I mean, I'll say I only own one pinball machine. It's Roller Games. And part of what I love about Roller Games is the ads, right? Like, what is it, Orange Crush or something? Game Pro Magazine. I would love to own Wheel of Fortune. But to the point of it looking cheap, I think there's two ways to look at it. That wheel that actually spins around, that's cool. It is cool. Like, I don't think, yeah, I don't know that you could really have asked for a better wheel than that. Maybe like a little tiny thing that actually bumps the little stand-up parts of the wheel. But anyway, the thing that is center stage and looks cheap as hell are the bobbleheads, right? there's something about there's something about the choice to make them look cartoonish that i think really sets the tone for the game but but for the for the historians the bobbleheads are stern employees that's right is it lonnie ropp is that how you say it alan lonnie ropp is a programmer yep and then dwight sullivan is another programmer and then keith is a programmer who did this game keith johnson on there and then maria alejandra a stern assembly line worker on there too yeah so she must have been really good at assembling these things anyway the bobbleheads are are the thing that i think people have the hardest time looking past and i get it it's so funny i think it's just a funny looking game again i mean i've been accused of just i enjoy campy movies and i love b movies science fiction and horror and for the same reason kind of scott echoes is like i'm like it's kind of awesome that they made this game like i just look at it like that i was like it's awesome that they made this game the design team from dennis nordman you listen to the show i love dennis nordman i think dennis nordman is the man i love his layouts. I love his games. And David Thiel does awesome sound and music work. Keith Johnson is sort of the godfather of modern pinball code and making these games deeper and richer, for better or for worse. I would argue that they've gone a little bit too far nowadays, but during this kind of dead time of Stern, this sort of dead zone, I really like a lot of these games. Again, this is when I got, just like you, Scott, this is when I got into pinball. So these games were new. I look back on them fondly with some semblance of nostalgia, like moving to Portland, getting into pinball, playing on location and seeing games like this and Pirates of the Caribbean and CSI and, you know, like 24 and all those games around this time period. And yeah, I think it's I think it's fun. Do you remember where you played Wheel of Fortune, Alan? The first time? I don't. I want to say it was Voodoo Donuts 2. oh wow okay that's that's what i think it was for me and sorry i know this is no ad for other portland area places but shanghai tunnel ryan and i used to spend quite a amount of quite a bit of time down there eating bean burgers and not being in the sun and they would get all the new games it was great yeah and like no one else would be there playing we could just camp on them for a couple hours so the next one we have free to boy one says my brother played this one apparently he said it was quote horrible suck it for back your brother sounds like a real piece of crap buddy i love that review i love that review because he's like my brother played this and he told me it was horrible so it needs to be known i put it on the internet hearsay okay what else do you got all right grubo says this is a kind of a long one the non-standard spacing between flippers might be a welcome feature for some, but for me, and I think many will agree, it's a nightmare. It's more frustrating for someone used to the classic setup. None of the ball-saving tricks work, and I tend to stupidly lose the ball by trying to focus on the saves too much. The outlane split with ball save award is quite cool, though. Storyline seems to be quite complex, and I haven't really dug into it too much. However, from the first 10 or so plays, it seemed quite boring and unexciting. I am not quite sure if I'd call it the worst I have ever played, but it's definitely close to it. Oh, rough. Just the way your mother likes it, Trevante.
    18:34
    Do they really say storyline in there? Storyline is easy to follow. No, he says it seems to be quite complex. Oh, quite complex. I guess an episode of Wheel of Fortune can be very confusing.
    18:48
    The thing about this machine, and again, I'm no historian, But I think this is around the time there was sort of a crash, right? Like a lot of people in Stern were laid off. Okay, so I do know that they didn't finish the code for this game, and they never did. So there's no wizard mode to it. Yeah, I'm guessing that, you know, that led to a few quality of life things that never showed up. And some people could see it as kind of boring. The other thing I got to be honest about is I'm not very good at pinball. Like I never have been, and I never will be. And the fact that this machine is so jarring made me feel like it was a safe place to express that to a pinball machine. It wasn't like TNA where I walk up and I'm either good or I'm not. Wheel of Fortune will hide some of your less admirable pinball traits. Thanks for listening. Thanks for hearing my truth.
    19:42
    He calls it the non-standard spacing. He calls it a nightmare. He says it's frustrating for someone used to the classic setup and that he tends to stupidly lose the ball by trying to focus on the saves too much. So I guess what you're saying, Scott, is that you stupidly lose the ball trying to focus on saving on normal machines. So when it happens here, par for the course. Exactly. Yeah. Or you're like, well, it's you know, it's clearly the nonstandard spacing between the flippers. You know, I mean, what could I what could anyone possibly do about this? well i mean it does look pretty impressive the the drain the center drain looks like something else is going on to the untrained eye so yeah anybody would have a hard time on that machine so the next one lou knees says how can this game be released to the public with unfinished coding a friend was joking with me that it'd be like selling a car without a steering wheel when you are playing the game all you can think about is how much the better the game would have been if they did this or that. No machine should have a double drain in the center. The machine is brightly colored with a great set of lights, but this play field is a mess. Changed his name to Turd Ferguson. It's a funny name. Isn't it pretty standard to release machines with unfinished coating? Like, isn't it just accepted nowadays? Okay. So what's, what's this person's problem? Like they were just trying to get it out first to market. Maybe there was some, uh, independent company that was threatening to put a wheel of fortune out and they had to get it out first i like the term threatening to put a wheel of fortune out we'll do it do you think like if there was a like a meeting at stern and they had a list of uh game show properties that they were going to go after and like wheel of fortune jeopardy the price is right family feud like all these would be fun it'd be cool if they did them all i think that's not ever going to happen. The way this game's rated. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. All right, what else you got? Next up is from Ninja Doug. It says, I originally was high on this game. However, my opinion faded as I played it more. The artwork, in quotes, is colorful, but is really nothing more than a bunch of rainbows splashed everywhere. I do not like the audio. The contestants are annoying and Pat Sajak's jackpot calls do not inject any excitement. I do not like the attempt at a new style of layout, but I think it could have been tested better as the flow just isn't good and shots don't feel right. With the recent trend of good stern pins, Pirates of the Caribbean, Family Guy, Spider-Man, I think they took a big step back with this one. You think you're pretty smart, don't you, Trebek? Okay so this guy says he was high on this game but complains about the beautiful colors and the rainbows and stuff Doesn make any sense I been high on this game plenty of times and that was like the best part of the entire experience so i don't know it's a confusing i took the reverse track with it then then this guy did like i was originally turned off and then i played a few games and i was like wow this is actually super fun yeah and the pat sajak stuff like he recorded custom call outs for this and i could be getting it mixed up with some other thing that's rumbling around in my head but i i think it was he didn't do that for all the video games but he did it for the pinball machine yeah it's kind of cool i mean pat sajak he's he's not like a villain right he's not canceled i don't think so so not yet not at the time of recording yeah it's kind of surprising that he's not but anyway he did custom call outs I think that counts for something. Yeah, they're nowhere near as bad as the first X-Men call-outs, which were pretty bad. In 24, they had the main actress on 24, Chloe, do the call-outs on that game, and that game is rough. You can tell she doesn't want to be there doing that. She just wasn't a big enough star to say no, and she did not want to do it. For anyone listening, if you want to defend 24, that would absolutely, this is a perfect chance to plug. Send me an email, wedgeheadinfo at gmail.com. We'll get you on the show to talk about 24. But back to the reviews here. Kentron 3030 says, the truth is this game isn't all that much fun. I'm relatively new in the pinball circuit, but I'm catching on quickly. I think you've got the right answer. I have, however, spoken to many seasoned veterans. And as far as the new games are concerned, this is one of the worst.
    24:22
    Wow. they consistently don't make as much money as the other newer games spider-man family guy etc and there just isn't that much going on in gameplay the only thing it has going for it is a very colorful and visually stimulating play field okay so strong move starting your review by saying the truth is i like that yeah and then it's you know to go into this person is new But they talked to veterans who don't like it. And then all of a sudden they were an operator. They became an operator in the middle of the post too. They knew the earnings. So I don't know. I feel like it's an easy target to say this is a bad game. I would love to hear like what the people who were playing in the 80s think about it. Because the E-M-ness of it all. And I feel like there's something there. I don't know. Is that crazy? Wasn't there that Beatles game that came out that people liked? Because it kind of felt like a throwback. this is a throwback yeah yeah although that was like a reskin of sea witch right yep reskin of sea witch the beatles i mean to me like this game tickles my fancy because i love a non-traditional lower play field i always joke that like you know when new pinball machines come out everyone's just like stepping over each other to be the first one to say like oh this shit looks like that shit this shit looks like that game this game looks like that game it's just this game cut up with this game and i go it's like everyone's like it's all derivative cookie cutter bs right god forbid you know put the center drain that they put on this game onto a game everyone freaks the fuck out you know like everyone loses their mind so it's like we want something new fresh different innovative but don't change the in lanes or the flipper placement or the size or the gap between the flippers like don't put a pop bumper down there don't like don't change anything meaningfully You know, like that has to be there when the older games like that was not the case at all like that. I mean, that's been the case for the last 35, 40 years with exceptions like this game or now with like Stern's Uncanny X-Men. But it's like I immediately I immediately am drawn like a moth to the flame for any different flipper placement. so are you are you a fan of spy hunter i hate spy hunter as a game i hate that game but uh yeah like i i'm at least like at least it's different at least it's different yeah yeah it's very different but yeah that's a terrible game if you want to defend that we can uh have you back on the show to defend that i know i haven't played that one that much i actually found one on the side of the road a couple years ago in glendale california someone dumped a spy hunter was taking my daughter to the park and just stopped everything immediately and called a friend but i i couldn't get it working because someone had uh you know it has the big like jumble of cables and someone just clipped that oh yeah they snipped like 100 cables at once or something so or 100 wires so i i just didn't have it in me to try to fix that so i handed it off to somebody but you know it made me think just looking at the play field and kind of rolling a ball around i was like yeah this is i know everyone hates this game but that's one of the lowest rated games of all time for sure like like that is a truly despised game yeah it's number 303 out of uh 307 right now on the pin side list it's supremely hated it's probably why it gets left on the side of the road in glendale you know what i mean there's a home for every pinball machine except for by hunter All right, next bad review is by Jetejor, perhaps. It says, this game could have been way cooler if you were the person that actually got to select the letters. The cheesy jazz music is getting on my nerves. I'll take anal bum cover for $7,000. that's an album cover not anal bum cover that's it two two complaints i do agree that it would be more fun if it was a little more interactive the only pinball game i play now is whodunit and i love deciding who did it um so it would be really fun to actually like pick pick a letter I don't remember. When you buy a vowel, you don't even get to pick the vowel, right? It just pops up. Okay, so that's a good call. But the music, like, that's not fair, right? Like, I think the music's kind of good. Yeah, that's David Thiel on music and sound. I always thought it was a good package. You know, it was on theme. I think it was good. I was thinking a newer game. If they redid Wheel of Fortune today, which, you know, Stern, if you're listening, maybe you should. they could have an audio input on it where you actually call out the vowel you want like why don't why don't any games have something like that where you just say like you know give me a letter and you say the letter whoa that'd be cool that'd be a crazy feature alan when you play and you're getting real serious do you put headphones on and like zone in are you always headphones off now headphones off i'm in my environment i like to hear what's around me i like to hear the machines themselves i know some people they play better with headphones like i guess i've never really tried it i would assume my performance would be worse yeah i don't i don't know why i just i just can't imagine it being better i i'm one of those people that like i kind of rely a little bit somewhat on the the sound calls to tell me my progress you know like i mean obviously on location when you're playing games you can't always hear those Yeah, I don't know. Do you play with headphones? No. No, I don't. Ryan and I were talking the other day about how it would be interesting to see how scores differed with or without headphones and the noise of the area you're playing. Like you, a hockey fan, there are some arenas that are more difficult to play in than others, or football. Certainly, noise plays a factor. So is your Monster Bash score as meaningful at ground control as it is in a louder venue? These are questions that no one's asking. Apple Watches can tell you decibels. Surely you could put that on a pinball machine and have that go with high scores. I would love to see you guys use your programming wizardry at a pinball company to institute some of these features. Like, I just think here's the audits on the pinball machine of at a decibels of 80 versus at 110. you know like and just see what the average scores or what the average ball lengths are and i just can't imagine like if you could talk to the machine like you could interactive choosing instead of like using your flipper button and an action button to choose something you could just say what house you wanted in game of thrones you know or what character you wanted in star wars that would be cool alan i think i just had an idea real quick you can pass this on to chris if you want it's free free idea get that wheel of fortune that's on craigslist put it on route at a retirement home 50 cents a game and see how it does this is a captive audience they love wheel of fortune see how it earns you know that's not a bad idea thank you junior oakland says i just hate this one it is very nice looking but you couldn't give me one unless i didn't have any pins i got no space for a machine that is no fun at all. Hey, I speak a little French. You're an ass bite. Pardon my French. I mean, I've never seen... Maybe things have changed, but I've never seen somebody turn down a pinball machine for free. It just feels mean-spirited. Well, that's what he said. He's like, you couldn't give me one unless I didn't have any pins. So if he was in the desert dying of thirst, he would accept this stagnant pond water you were offering him. But otherwise, not at all. Just don't tell people that there's no wizard mode and watch them play it for the rest of their lives. All right. Next one's from Bradley. I was excited the first time I saw this. I love the slot machines, but I could not stand this game. Hated the huge opening at the bottom. Maybe I suck, but this is just a waste of quarters. I'll never play it again.
    32:41
    I like the self-reflection. I feel like a kinship to this person. Maybe you do suck, and maybe that's okay. Maybe you calling it, what did he call it, the hole at the bottom, the gap at the bottom? Yeah, a huge opening. Maybe that's fine. Maybe it's a huge opening. There's no such thing as an Italian bottom. It's just a huge opening, and you put your quarters in. Sometimes it works out for you, and sometimes it doesn't. Oddly enough, you're drinking beer while you do it too, like everything together. I don't know what we're, what are we expecting from these bore machines? It's big. It looks wet. the colors are blinking at you at sage ox there just use the time you have left like have fun all right kanea says i didn't hate this one like i thought i would though it's certainly hard to fall in love with the butterface the strange flipper slash drain setup definitely takes some getting used to i agree that wheel of fortune is a game that you do better if you nudge it frequently but you have to learn how to nudge a bit differently than you do in other games it can You feel touchy at first and you lose balls you might not lose on other games Some people like that the outlanes potentially give you free spins but I must be unlucky because they felt more like typical drains to me The theme sucks I mean, come on. How many people honestly think there's much overlap between Pinball and Wheel of Fortune? But it is executed fairly well for what it is. Hearing Wheel of Fortune as the wheel toy spins and flashes is pretty cool every time. The bobbleheads are ugly and have annoying voices The ramps are nothing special But at least they're there And interact with the wheel to some degree It's easy to trigger assorted multiball modes Through the methodical manner In which the multiballs pop out Is not very exciting Still, this makes it more fun for casual players Overall, Wheel of Fortune is fun to play If you run into one in the wild But I shudder to think about having this theme in the home N-H-U-O nursing home use only maybe okay that's not necessary ah scott just like what you were saying yeah retirement community only this is what this leaves for i mean we were just saying earlier was that the last step but yeah the last episode we were saying uh what the 70s were the heyday of pinball are these the people that are now entering the nursing homes like this is a market, man. Kenea, this is like what the greatest pinball podcaster of all time or? No, this isn't Kenea. This is Kenea. It's not the same person. It's well, it's well argued the whole point. It's kind of hard to disagree with anything that they say there. I mean, it's pretty reasonable, but it's just, I don't know. The thing that stuck out at me was how could somebody think that this is a good theme for a pinball machine? So what were the good themes for pinball machines? Popeye, 24, like GoldenEye, like any movie that came out, any like old rock band that came out. I don't know. I just like the chaos of it. Like I said, it's as good as Mrs. Fields Cookies or the Pretzel Peddler or TriMet. Let's get a TriMet pinball machine or something. Alan, if you could pick one theme, what would it be? Like what's your dream pinball theme? I would just give artists a free reign to make the machine. Like, I would do a layout, and then I would just... Like, I really like the old games. Like, I know Ryan is a big fan of Paragon, but it's like, what's the theme of Paragon? You know what I mean? Like, when you're making that game, like, what is it? You know, it's like sword and sorcery, fighting a giant dragon, griffon creature, saving a damsel, everyone's wearing skimpy brass armor. and you're like, I would make a game like that. The theme would be like, let's find a cool artist and let's have them create something crazy or like Grand Lizard or any of those like kind of old games, I think, especially like the early 80s games are just bonkers, like absolutely insane. And I would love to do that. But I will say we just got our ACDC Premium back on the floor at Wedge and I was playing it with one of my bartenders and we were just like god i hate acdc the band but this game rips and they were like i was like yeah i love the bell dude such a cool and then we're like what could we re-theme this game as and then he said what if it was taco bell the pinball machine oh yeah you know that's a great idea great idea and there's the big train he's like that could be a big burrito coming over the left ramp and we could have the bell and you could make the every time you hit it it's the taco bell sound that'd be a pretty fun game i think because i think the game itself is fun but it'd be even better if you just put a crazy commercialist fast food license over the top of it for no reason yeah i think i think like cola wars are saying coke versus pepsi would be fun there's a lot of just like blatant commercialism that would be goofy and cheesy but then you get a good artist behind it and it would be exciting all right journeyman says played it once at an arcade and was sick of playing it on my second ball. The rules? You're buying letters trying to solve a puzzle on a pinball machine? It just does not work, and I really did not care to complete shots to make these objectives. I quote, got an R. Wow. It's just a horrible idea for a pinball machine. Stern's try at Williams' pin-mation with their contestants' characters just looked cheap in comparison the weird drain blocker feature does not play smoothly big time collectors may want this game for its rarity but for the rest of us yuck yeah that's your opinion it is interesting like there are only a thousand of them so it sort of should be a collector's item right coming up for big time collectors yeah big oh just yeah that's right my mistake um let's see so this person didn't like playing it on their second ball i get that there's all kinds of machines i don't like playing on my second ball but you're there you've it's you've spent your money like you probably have friends around you are you just gonna walk away and make them drain the rest of your balls like you have to you have to soldier forward i think yeah it's kind of it's kind of a dick move to leave the game like that yeah you just gotta play through it i don't know i get it I get it. I still will always play a Wheel of Fortune and Ball in the Chain. No, I would too. I think Wheel of Fortune is fun. A game from this time that, again, I'll posit to the listeners. Because sometimes I get people, I don't know what would qualify. I'm going to give the listeners another one. If you like the game Mustang by Stern, released around this time, that would qualify. You want to come on the show and talk about how you love Mustang. Because that's how I felt about playing Mustang, was what Journeyman says about Wheel of Fortune. played it once in an arcade and was sick of playing it on my second ball that's how i feel about mustang rodsey brought it in it's one of the first games he brought into wedge when we were still building out he had one in his van he unloaded it as we're doing the build out for wedgehead so we'd have a couple of machines to play we're in the middle of playing it we're on like a three player game and i'm on ball two and it's just taking forever i'm just like i i hate everything about this game i think it's ugly i think it sucks and just like what journeyman was saying it's like i i don't get the appeal for anybody but that's why we do this segment on the show is like everyone's different and everyone interacts with them all differently i personally i'm just like you scott i will absolutely play a wheel of fortune every time i see it it's almost i mean i know the color palette's wild but it it does feel a little bit psychedelic which i think you've been alluding to this whole time with the bobbleheads the mixture of the photos of pat sajak on the back glass mixed with that comic book kind of bobblehead thing mixed with the color palette it looks wet and at the same time it's like this kind of piece of americana game show culture i love the lower playfield layout i think like the way the flippers are like that's you can't extricate that from this game and that's a big part of reason why i like it so much like i said earlier but i got the final review of the evening it's by brent xyz and he says start with french stewart who's grinning like an idiot maybe it would play better without flippers at all pretty sure of yourself seems like stern was testing out the market for the world's first oversized horizontal 21st century american-made pachinko machine moving on completely purely terrible. As for those who comment that this is a thinking man's game, all I can say is you must think it's more fun to throw away your money faster on this pinball machine than a Las Vegas slot machine. The price is wrong, bitch. The description god-awful does not do this game justice. That joke about thinking was really sweaty. That guy took me on a, I was with him until that joke took me on a journey. It does look like a pachinko machine. It's true. Very colorful in that way. And the outlanes and the double drains kind of make it look like more is going to happen than really does. Plus you just have to shake it around a bit. I think if people want kind of a standard layout, there's plenty to choose from out there. And there's like a, you know, a reoccurring theme here with these bad reviews is just like a sense of defeatism where they're like, you know, you have to nudge it differently. I don't like that. Yeah. I don't know. Learn to nudge it differently. Like, you know, learn some new skills. I enjoy the variety of pinball, which is why I like really old games. And I like the new games, too, and everything in between. But it is funny how there's a section of pinball players out there. I would say the majority of pinball players. They don't want things to change. They want different skins of the same thing over and over again. And I mean, they'll tell you one thing, but then you give them something different. I think George Gomez famously said it. Famous pinball designer George Gomez said it when he made NBA fast break in the 90s. And he's just like, you know, everyone says they want something different. I give you fast break, goes over like a lead balloon. You know, I try to give you basketball scoring, give you something different. Everyone's like, what? I don't get it. What? Why are they doing this to us? Fast forward to today. We have a fast break. That game always does super well. and the players love it, and it's a great change of pace game. That's kind of how it is. It's like the tall poppy syndrome, right? Like, it gets lopped off, you know? Anytime you stick your head above the fray, like, you're just going to get, you know, the tallest tree catches all the wind. So I think that's what Wheel of Fortune is. Just, it was too beautiful. It was a unicorn.
    43:50
    Unicorns aren't allowed to exist in this world. A moist unicorn. Well said. That was beautiful. Beautiful, wet unicorn. But I want to thank you guys both again for joining us on another episode of the Wedget Pinball Podcast. I want to implore anyone out there listening, if you can find a Wheel of Fortune near you, use the pinball map, what Ryan and Scott created, the great resource for us all. See if there's one near you in your region. Go out and play it. Give it another shot and see what you think about this unique wet unicorn of a game. and if you're so inclined we also have a coffee ko-fi.com slash wedgehead podcast if you want to donate to the show help us get to pentastic we're about 20 of our way to our goal there's a link in the show notes to help us out with a one-time donation or set up a subscription and until next time good luck don't suck
    44:52
    Thank you.