Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

The Spinner Is Lit -Episode 42 - Shows, Road Trips, And Queso Cheese

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·3h 11m·analyzed·Nov 16, 2021
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Hosts report on fall 2021 pinball shows across US and Chicago Expo, including factory tours and new game experiences.

Summary

Spencer, Dan, and Mark discuss their October 2021 pinball show circuit experiences across the western US and Chicago, including the Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo in Denver, Pinnagogo in Northern California, California Extreme in San Jose, and Chicago Pinball Expo. Key highlights include Spencer's road trip mishap at Denny's, tours of American Pinball and Stern factories, meeting Steve Bowden who just joined American Pinball, and hands-on play with Godzilla, Legends of Valhalla, and other recent releases.

Key Claims

  • Steve Bowden was hired at American Pinball and started on the day the speaker visited the factory during Chicago Pinball Expo

    high confidence · Speaker encountered Bowden at American Pinball factory tour, Bowden confirmed he was hired that day and would be working on rules cleanup, particularly for Legends of Valhalla

  • 'Goonies' was the code name for Stern's Stranger Things game

    medium confidence · Speaker observed a bin labeled 'Goonies' during Stern virtual factory tour and speculated it was a code name; another participant confirmed it was the code name for Stranger Things

  • Chicago Pinball Expo had approximately 20 Godzilla machines on display

    high confidence · Speaker directly observed and counted Godzillas in vendor area at Chicago Pinball Expo

  • Steve Bowden said he had no knowledge of what was happening at Deep Root and became suspicious when no games shipped after a long period

    medium confidence · Speaker reports Bowden's statement about leaving Deep Root: 'I had no clue what was going on, but I started thinking things were getting really fishy when we were getting no games out after this long period of time'

  • Rocky Mountain Pinball and Game Room Expo had roughly 100 pinball machines and 60-75 video games

    high confidence · Spencer confirmed with Dan that the Denver-area show had approximately these numbers

Notable Quotes

  • “we're out of cheese cheese, but we got cheddar”

    Spencer (recounting Denny's server) @ early in episode — Humorous anecdote about queso (Spanish for cheese) being unavailable but cheddar available, becomes running joke for episode title

  • “I had no clue what was going on, but I started thinking things were getting really fishy when we were getting no games out after this long period of time”

    Steve Bowden (as reported by speaker) @ Chicago Pinball Expo section — Reveals Bowden's perspective on conditions at Deep Root before departure

  • “Even in his first day, he could just feel the vibe and it was like, oh, I really like working with these people. We're going to do some amazing things.”

    Speaker describing Steve Bowden's reaction to American Pinball @ Chicago Pinball Expo factory tour section — Indicates positive workplace culture at American Pinball vs previous employer

  • “Goonies was the code name for Stranger Things”

    Dan (confirming) @ Chicago Pinball Expo Stern factory tour section — Confirms internal Stern code name for upcoming game

  • “George Gomez is a great presenter. He really has a good tone in his voice, very knowledgeable in his things, but speaks in simple terms.”

    Mark @ Chicago Pinball Expo Stern factory tour section — Commentary on George Gomez's presentation skills during factory tour

  • “everybody else is like, we love this show, but we're looking forward to Golden State”

    Spencer @ Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo section — Shows strong draw and reputation of Golden State Pinball Festival among northern California pinball community

  • “It's all about the people”

    Spencer @ Pinnagogo discussion — Core value identified as missing from Denver show but present at community-oriented Pinnagogo

  • “to all of you who are putting on these shows, a huge thank you”

Entities

SpencerpersonDanpersonMarkpersonBrianpersonGreg OngpersonBrad GrantpersonRob AnthonypersonTim MezlepersonSteve Bowdenperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Comprehensive coverage of fall 2021 pinball show circuit: Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo (Denver area), Pinnagogo (Northern California), California Extreme (San Jose), and Chicago Pinball Expo. Shows reporting good vibes but reduced size due to COVID; all fall schedule instead of typical spring/summer.

    high · Direct attendee reports from Spencer and Dan about multiple major shows with specific details about game counts, crowds, and community experience

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Bowden hired by American Pinball, starting first day during Chicago Pinball Expo visit. Previously at Deep Root. Bowden indicated he will work on rules programming, particularly for Legends of Valhalla.

    high · Speaker directly met and spoke with Steve Bowden at American Pinball factory tour; Bowden confirmed hiring and future roles

  • ?

    business_signal: Steve Bowden's departure from Deep Root suggests company difficulty; Bowden reported suspicious lack of game shipments before leaving. Deep Root appears to have had production/shipping problems.

    medium · Bowden's statement to speaker about lack of games shipping and 'fishy' situation; speaker speculating on company troubles

  • ?

    product_launch: Godzilla (Stern) heavily featured at Chicago Pinball Expo with ~20 machines including Pro, Premium, and LE models. Legends of Valhalla (American Pinball) displayed with 6-7 machines available for play.

    high · Direct observation at Chicago Pinball Expo; speaker played LE Godzilla provided by Zach Maney; multiple Legends of Valhalla machines played

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern provided virtual live factory tour with Jack Danger and George Gomez providing narration. American Pinball allowed public factory tours while other major manufacturers (including Stern in-person) did not.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.574

0:00
Welcome to Spinner's Lit Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Spencer. With me are members of the roundtable, Dan and Mark. Brian's out tonight But he's actually wrenching on Games right now So we're going to get him in Next episode again Still part of the Roundtable crew We wish him well Tonight's episode is episode 42 Road Trips, Shows, and Queso Cheese I'm going to go ahead and start this off I did a road trip I drove from my Home now in Casper, Wyoming Out to California
0:56
So I drove actually out the first day to Reno, and then I stayed in Reno overnight, and then I met up with a friend of the show and pinball brother, Greg Ong, who's a former member of the board for the Golden State Pinball Festival.
1:14
And we had, because he was in Reno for our business, so we had breakfast together. That was cool, and I headed down into California, where I immediately met with clients and got to work, and then headed up to home office in Chico for a few days and also stayed with my daughter and son-in-law, and we had a nice time. We had shawarma. There's a great shawarma joint up in Chico.
1:38
But queso cheese, queso cheese comes from, and we'll get to the shows in a minute, queso cheese comes from, I was tired. It was a long day. I'd been on the road for a few days, and you know how it goes when you travel. and I'm like, what do you guys want? And my daughter's son-in-law live in my hometown, in a small town, Oroville, California. And it's a small town, so there's not a lot there. So it's like, there's not really anything good here. Dad, we got to cheat, though. I'm like, alright. So I'm like, well, you know what? This is Denny's. You guys, Denny's good. She's like, yeah, Denny's is fine. Come on.

Mark @ Show organizers section — Appreciation for volunteer effort in organizing pinball shows despite COVID challenges

Michael Grant
person
Josh Kuglerperson
Jason Cumminsperson
Jack Dangerperson
George Gomezperson
Gary Sternperson
Zach Maneyperson
Nicoleperson
Jeff Cholesperson
TJperson
American Pinballcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
Deep Rootcompany
Rocky Mountain Pinball and Game Room Expoevent
Pinnagogoevent
Chicago Pinball Expoevent
California Extremeevent

high · Speaker attended both tours, provided detailed descriptions of processes shown, including playfield assembly, quality checks, sticker bins, and office spaces

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jeff Choles provided voice-over work as Odin for Legends of Valhalla call-outs. George Gomez noted for excellent presentation skills and authoritative knowledge of pinball design.

    high · Speaker attended American Pinball seminar on call-outs and heard Choles' work; George Gomez provided narration during factory tour

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern Insider Connect tested publicly for first time at Pinnagogo show. Stern representative present at show to demonstrate and assist users with the platform.

    high · Dan attended Pinnagogo and played Godzilla Pro with Insider Connect; noted as first public testing opportunity

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts emphasize importance of thanking show organizers and volunteers, noting significant planning and effort required. October 2021 shows rescheduled from spring/summer due to COVID concerns.

    high · Extended discussion about thanking organizers and volunteers; Mark and Spencer both praise show efforts despite reduced attendance and fewer games

  • ?

    collector_signal: Bushido (Spanish/Industria Electromechanica game from 1993) displayed at Rocky Mountain Pinball Expo - very rare DMD game with limited production. Kingpin displayed at Pinnagogo and California Extreme (noted as ~12 known copies exist).

    high · Speaker played and documented Bushido with photos; Dan discussed Kingpin rarity; both describe these as exceptional exhibition opportunities

  • ?

    venue_signal: Strong Northern California pinball community with multiple shows (Pinnagogo, California Extreme) and Golden State Pinball Festival generating significant anticipation. Local collectors (TJ, others) bring rare machines to shows.

    high · Multiple speakers note community cohesion, recognition of faces, excitement about Golden State, emphasis on relationship-based experience at NorCal shows

  • ?

    machine_intel: Stern's Stranger Things game had internal code name 'Goonies' during manufacturing. Code name visible in factory bin labels during virtual tour.

    medium · Speaker observed 'Goonies' labeled bin during live virtual factory tour, Dan confirmed it was code name for Stranger Things

    • 2:15
    Shakey's has really gone downhill from what everyone tells me. But my daughter and son-in-law both agreed to Denny's. I just loved it at that because neither one of them liked Shakey's. So, yeah, I know. Anyway, no, but we did go to Celestino Pizza the next night, and that was real good. But anyway, so we're at Denny's, and I'm tired, and the kid looks terrified. He comes out and says, like, sir, we're out of queso cheese for your bacon, tater tot, whatever. And I'm like, well, it comes with cheddar too, right? He's like, yes, sir. And I'm like, let's put extra cheddar on it. Will that be okay? And I'm like, yeah, that would be great. and then I swear to God I gave this zero thought the kid was real happy I wasn't like being a jerk about the cheese I'm like oh dude I'm tired hungry I was tip good you know anyway I was just tired hungry glad to be with my daughter and son-in-law and so it's like days later I'm driving home and I see something about cheese and queso like on a billboard it's queso something I don't know what it was advertising you know I've been on the road a while And it just dawned on me, it's like, all right, queso stands for cheese. So what you're telling me is you were out of cheese cheese but had cheddar cheese. And I let it go at that because, I mean, I was already gone, but I just might kind of chuckle to myself in my head going, these poor kids, I don't even think they realize what they're saying, you know. That's where the queso cheese comes from. So we're out of cheese cheese, but we got cheddar. Okay, whatever. That's fine. Before it's worth, the bacon tater tot thing was really good. I was really tired and really hungry.
    3:49
    So, yeah, so I road tripped. And then Dan and I linked up. We played some pinball. We got down to Vacaville to a friend of the show and pinball brother and all-around great guy and former board member Brad Grant. And we got to play pinball at his house where we got to play the heist and the multi-morphic game, among other things. So cool.
    4:16
    We got to talk about heists. We will talk about heists. We're going to get into that. So two weeks before, God, I got a lot to talk about, but I'm going to try to get through this quick, and then the rest of you guys can talk. If you're trying to get through this quick, you missed out like three minutes ago. So just keep going. I know. Okay, I'll try to keep it under ten minutes. Okay, so like two weeks before I travel out to California, which is like a week ago, so three weeks ago. I went to the Rocky Mountain Pinball and Game Room Expo, and that's, don't ask me the city. I'll say Denver. It's a suburb of Denver. I don't know. I'm still learning this stuff.
    4:58
    It's in a really nice hotel, you know, like a Marriott or Hyatt, whatever. It's nice, right? So we walk in, and they're like, hi, how you doing? And some people are wearing masks, and they're like, you want to wear a mask? Cool. If you don't, hey, wash your hands a lot. There's sanitized stations everywhere. There's the bar. There's their drinks. It's $30. Have fun. They had all kinds of cool T-shirts, and they had like last year's and the year before T-shirts and posters. I picked up a poster, which I'll put a video later to the game room. It's hanging on my wall.
    5:34
    I'll send it to you, Mark, so you'll get a kick out of it. And so I'm there, and, you know, it's really weird because, you know, usually the show, I'm, I don't want to sound fucking, like, arrogant about this, but I'm kind of the big man on campus. You know, back home at Go-Go, at Golden State, everybody knows me. I know everybody, you know, because I've been going to these shows for a lot of years. So it's like, Spence, hey, gone, how you doing? And it's great. So I walk into the Denver show, and it's just like, hey, random asshole that likes pinball. Okay, cool. Wow, this just feels weird It's a nice show though And then about 20 minutes into the show I'm walking around and I bump into Rob Anthony Rob Spence Gives me a big hug, I give him a hug Hey man, because he lives, if you don't know, Rob lives In Wyoming, he lives at the other end of the state So, you know, how you liking Wyoming? Love it, blah blah blah Hey, you know, I got a hotel room with JJ Game Exchange Come on up, man I got my wife and kids He said, no, no, bring everybody, man, 630 Pizza. I'm like, awesome. So we did that. And she messaged me. I run into JJ. And then I run into Tim Mezzle, Mezzle, Mezzle, and his lovely wife. I believe it's Measle. It's Measle Mod. I believe it is Measle. I hope I got it right. Awesome people.
    6:51
    And the cool thing is, is all of them, when we're talking, are like, even, you know, JJ's like, this is my home show, and I love it. I wouldn't change it for the world. He's like, but I'm looking forward to Golden State. and everybody else is like, we love this show, but we're looking forward to Golden State. So that speaks volumes about the show that the NorCal folks put on. It really does. Good show, man. Highlights. Now, talking about the locals and stuff, another few people. Finally met local pinball people here in Casper. They live like five blocks away. And I was putting my initials in the Godzilla up in the suite, And the lady goes, hey, you're Mr. Vaughn. I'm like, yeah, hi. She's like, hey, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh, hey. They're like, oh, yeah, you guys are from Casper. And we got to talking. So we're going to get together soon. I had to go, you know, road trip to California. And then I had a little Halloween party the night before Halloween. But, you know, I kind of put it together like a week and a half before Halloween. And they already had plans. A lot of people did. But still had a lot of cool people show up. It was a good time. So met some local pinball people. That was cool. And everybody said no it's still a good show in Denver But because of the COVID About half the games that you show up Showed up They had some nice older EMs They had all the new modern stuff Thanks to JJ and Rob Anthony You know They had an Ultraman And a Halloween I played the Ultraman and I didn't get to the Halloween Because the line was just too long And I was only there for the day You know Got lots of plays on Godzilla They had all the newest games there at the time.
    8:34
    Somebody even brought a bingo game. I didn't play it, but it looked immaculate, like in perfect condition. And there was a nice mix of video games and pinball. So it sounds like you had a really great show. How many games were there at the show? There were right around 100 pins and probably about 60, 75 video games. The highlight for me Was Seeing and playing Being able to play this super rare game It's a Spanish game I want to tell you it was a spin ball But don't quote me on that I'll post some pictures of the Facebook page I took a bunch It's called Bushido And it's a dot matrix game I believe early 90's And You know In fact, talking with some people there, it was one of the show organizers, or the show organizer brings it. And it was just such a rare treat because, you know, it's one of those kind of things where you just never see something like that, you know. What was the theme?
    9:38
    Like Samurai Warriors called Bushido. Yeah, Bushido is like Japanese for like code of honor. Yeah, yeah. I played that at Expo. Oh, did you play one? Yeah. Expo? Oh, cool. Yeah.
    9:56
    Yeah, no, hold on. I'm going to pull it up right now. It's got like a red back glass, and I know, yeah, I played that. That's so funny. Yeah, that was done as a gift from Gary Stern to like the president of Data East, or at least one of those was, I believe. Well, no, this one's Industria Electromechanica something. I was thinking of something else then. I think there was a different one, but this one was built in 1993.
    10:30
    I'm not sure how many. It was a DMD. Yeah. I do remember that. As DMDs go, the animations and stuff were pretty rudimentary. It was almost like in beta. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But, no, it's 1993, four players, model number A-1954.
    10:54
    No numbers on production, but I understand it's a very low production game. It had multi – it wasn't a single level, too, right? It had, like, multi-levels to it. Well, it had this weird little thing, kind of sort of a ball lock, kind of reminiscent of – it's funny I mention this. of the Turbo Bobby in Indianapolis 500. So there's Dan's segue.
    11:22
    Kind of like that, and then it had two ramps. So there was kind of a – not really an upper plate build, but it had two ramps, and it's a fun game. It's interesting. Like, you know, all those Spanish games have some really neat features, and you don't see them. You know, other than that There was Nothing really stood out for me After two years of pinball shows And then being in a show in a strange city I've never been in before Kind of like being brand new again But it was a good show And all the people were wonderfully polite And just like in any pinball show You know, just a good all-around experience If you're anywhere in the Denver area Man, during the Mile High show You know, pinball, arcade, cosplay whatever your jam is, definitely check it out. I had a great time, and I can't wait to do it again. And I have a poster hanging on my stairwell in my basement with all my show posters from Pinnagogo and Golden State Pinball Festival. That's great. So what you're saying then is it had a good vibe. Oh, a great vibe. It felt the same kind of vibe that we've had at Pinnagogo as well as Golden State, which is a great segue for Dan because I know you spent a little more time than I did over at Pinnagogo. But let's hear what your experience was over at Pinnagogo. Yeah, so we both made it to Pinnagogo, which was our local show for years and years and years. And it was pretty good. I mean, to anyone who's been to Pinnagogo, it has a real small-town fairground kind of vibe. probably, I would say like 120 games there. We had a couple vendors. There were a couple Godzillas. And so I think it was most of our first chance to get our hands on a Godzilla Pro. And gosh, I'm blanking on the guy's name, but one of the dudes from Stern, the guy who just did the software on Jack Danger's Jurassic Park, he was there as a representative of Stern helping out and helping people with Insider Connect, which was really, really neat. to get our hands on.
    13:32
    And what was really awesome about that, too, is it was the first show where they were testing out Stern Insider Connect. Yeah, we got to log in and be some of the first people in public, anyway, to get our hands on it. Yeah. But, yeah, it was a good show. I mean, I think that in terms of the game selection, we had a couple guys, TJ and Mark, really brought the heat. I think that they kind of made the show. they brought their kingpin, which I think that there's a dozen of those. So, you know, that's pretty exceptional. Crowds were light. I mean, it wasn't super, super busy, so there was never a wait to get on anything cool except for Godzilla, and even that would be, you know, you had to wait through a game or two. And yeah, man, I really wish that you could have made it out for it, Spencer. I think that you would have really dug it.
    14:25
    And, you know, there was some good stuff to see. awesome. They were really in great shape. They pretty much lasted the whole, at least when I went there on Saturday, I only had a chance to go one day, but I had a chance to go and play Alien. That's right. That guy had a brand new Alien. Oh, he had, actually, he had the Pinball Brothers version, the new one. He had the Pinball Brothers version, which was, I didn't see that anywhere except Pinnagogo, so that was a real treat, and I loved playing that. That was a great shooter and it had some good rules in it. And I got lucky and I didn't realize, you know how you get that beginner's luck when you never play a game, you have no idea what you're doing and then you end up going, holy cow, I just got the highest score. I can't believe that. You know, it's pretty funny when that happens. I'm sure that's happened to you, Dan. Well, I did get a chance to talk to him about it and apparently, yeah, that game was fresh new.
    15:20
    Yeah, I think it was. He brought his brand new baby to the show so that we can beat up on it. And what's interesting, too, is when I asked, I said, wow, that GC was really high. And he said, well, that was actually the GC score because he was testing out the switches.
    15:37
    So that was pretty funny. Glass off all day. Yeah. So that was neat, though. And speaking of Godzilla, wow, what an awesome game that is. I mean, talk about how fun that was with Insider Connect and getting the first time to play it. But, yeah, it's just a knockout of the park. It's so good. Have you got to check out a premium or an LE yet? I haven't. I'll talk about that when we talk about Expo. Oh, that's right, Expo. Oh, man, it escalates the experience.
    16:13
    That's right. You got to play the LE at Henry's. That's right. We set up Henry's LE. But, no, I mean, Pinnagogo was a fine show again, you know, just real good community experience, you know, a lot of friends, A lot of our local group came, you know, and I think that what you end up looking at with a show like Pinnagogo is, do you get that community feel? Do you see the people that you know? And more than anything, do you get to play some pinball with them?
    16:42
    And it didn't disappoint. That's what I missed going to the Denver show, the Mile High show. It's only because it was my first time there and I really didn't know anybody. You know, but that's what was missing for me. It was a great show, and I can't wait to go next year.
    17:00
    And finally, I did meet a couple people, which is so funny because they live, like, literally five blocks from me.
    17:07
    But that was the part that I missed the most. It was the community, the family, the camaraderie, because there I'm just, you know, some of the schmo that paid money and walked in. But you know what? That's the whole idea, right? It's all about the people. and Pinnagogo, it was great to see everybody from Sacramento and recognize a lot of faces that we haven't seen for almost two years. So it was a really nice experience to see everybody hang out, play pinball and play the newest games, which is always a plus about California shows. You always get to play those rare games you don't see anywhere else. Like you mentioned, Dan, Kingpin. What a great game that is too. Right, well, we're just lucky to have TJ, you know, because that guy owns everything. Speaking of TJ, we also went to his and Mark's show, which was California Extreme, which was back in San Jose this year. And it was, so where Pinnagogo was kind of what you expect Pinnagogo to be, you know, a lot of pinballs, a lot of friends, a lot of random hugs, California Extreme was much smaller. Still super fun, still a great selection of games, Not quite as much of the crazy stuff as you're used to seeing. But, yeah, it was maybe a half to a third the size of what you're used to California Extreme being. It's just really, really good that, you know, things are better enough that we were able to even have these shows. And, I mean, as such, it was just a busy, busy October in the world of pinball shows in Northern California. Actually, all over. October was just a dominating month for shows. Like every week there was a show. Yeah, and with the exception of Go-Go, all those shows are normally spring and summer shows. But because when they came around again for the second year in a row, it's like, can't do it, guys. Can't risk it. And so I think everybody's just like, we're doing a fall show, kids. We're cleaning out the barn. Get the games out. Let's rock and roll. And hats off to all the organizers, man. and volunteers who put all these great shows on in spite of, you know, COVID, in spite of less people coming, in spite of less people bringing games, in spite of all of it, they made these shows happen. They made them work. And, man, if you're out there listening, you go to a show, find the volunteers that bring the game. Shake their hand. Pat them on the back. Say thank you. Find the organizers. And then ask how you can help. Do I write a chat? Do I come and help load games? Can I clean games? Can I wash the door? Whatever. If you can help, help. Exactly. There's so much work into those shows, and it's so nice of them to put all that effort and all that work into something that we take for granted a lot of times. We just go, oh, we start complaining about things. It's like you don't realize how much planning. It's like a whole year of planning to have these shows happen. So to all of you who are putting on these shows, a huge thank you. Absolutely. Yeah, man. Speaking of shows, somebody here went to the granddaddy. The Mecca of all pinball shows with the industry as it is. And absolutely, it was Chicago Pinball Expo. And it's my first time that I went there. That's what I was wondering. Was this your first expo? first time I went to Chicago Pinball Expo. Well, you've got to tell us about it. And it was a great experience. I had a wonderful time. And the best part about it was meeting everybody, meeting all the people that were in the podcasting, meeting people who did the streams. They were all there. So that was probably the best part of the show. To recap, on Wednesday we went, and unfortunately the show didn't open until in the evening. So we wanted to do something during the day, and we found out that American Pinball was providing a factory tour, which I was surprised because I was looking at all the other places, and they did not allow any visitors, including Stern,
    21:28
    obviously a Chicago game company because they were about to release their game, and other companies. But American Pinball had it open for us. So after Jason Cummins and I, who went together to the show, we went over to American Pinball right after we pretty much arrived on our flight because we had a nice early flight. And we got in about 12 o'clock. It was open until 4 to visit the factory. So we went over there and we were greeted by Michael Grant, who works in the sales department. and we also got to meet Josh Kugler, who gave us the tour. And it was wonderful because he showed us the whole process, and it was like the CERN factory tour but in a smaller scale. So you got to see, like, the lines going with the process of, you know, the play field and then adding the parts to it and then the quality check and all those kinds of things. But it was a really nice tour that Josh gave to us. And I was looking in our group, and I was like, that person looks familiar and he had an American pinball shirt on. And I was like, who is that? Wait a minute. That's Steve Bowden. What's he doing here? And then it just clicked that he had an American pinball polo shirt. And I was thinking maybe he's working there now. And sure enough, he introduced himself. He's like, yeah, I'm Steve. I'm like, you're Steve, right? It's good to see you. And I was thinking he was just on the tour. And then I realized, wait a minute, he's working for American pinball. And then, of course, he verified that and said, yeah, yeah, I just got hired today. Wow. So right when we were there, that was his first day that he was working there, which was really exciting because I didn't even know about it on the news that he moved to American Pinball. So I talked to him for 30 minutes, 45 minutes or so. And he even mentioned about Deep Root. And I said, you know, what happened over there? And he pretty much said, I had no clue what was going on, but I started thinking things were getting really fishy when we were getting no games out after this long period of time. But he didn't have a clue what was going on behind the scenes, and he was just happy to get out of there. So he's made his home now in Chicago, and he's working on rules, and he's also, I don't know exactly what's his official title there at American Pinball. but he is definitely going to bring a lot to the table as far as cleaning up rules and doing other things to improve games even better. Well, Stephen Bowden is one of the good guys. I think that's fantastic. He is a great guy. Yeah, agreed. And, you know, now they have Josh Kugler, but before then you really didn't have a face. You know what I mean? Like with Stern you have, you know, you have numerous people that can be the face of Stern and go, oh, you know, Mike Tanya you know of course Gary George Gomez you know any of the other designers and programmers and go oh okay hey you're a awesome and you know having Steve down over there now gives him another face where he goes well Steve's there man Steve's a good dude and I totally believe 100% he didn't know what was going on he was just happy to A be getting a check and working in pinball, and he was doing his thing. And, of course, you know, after a while, I'm sure he started going, hey, wait a minute, something's not right. And by that time, of course, the walls were caving in. And, no, it's great he got picked up. I don't wish any of the employees or anything any ill will. I mean, there's obviously two people that, you know, I want to see get their comeuppance, and we already know who they are. Yeah, so it was wonderful to see Steve and talk to him. and it seemed like he was generally happy and that he's in a better situation now. And that's what makes me really pleased is he's in a place where he really enjoys working there. Even in his first day, he could just feel the vibe and it was like, oh, I really like working with these people. We're going to do some amazing things. He's going to be working on cleaning up the rules on Legends of Valhalla, which I could talk about next because they did have it displayed before we went into the factory and they actually had it with the glass off so you could see it. And what a gorgeous game and what a fun one to play that I played at Expo. And I'll talk about that a little later when we talk about the actual showroom. But that was great. So Wednesday was a fun time. And then in the evening, they had like a bumper blast party where it just opened to people who bought the whole entire weekend pass or the whole show pass for the four days. And we got to play some games. Now, not everything was set up, and some were still being fixed as we were speaking, but at least we had something to do in the evening to play until like 11 o'clock or so, and then they shut it down. Or maybe it was 10. I can't remember exactly. But that was just like the evening for Wednesday. And then Thursday we had a chance to go to some of the different seminars that were there. We had some really good ones from American Pinball where they had Jeff Choles there, and he was talking about doing the call-outs and everything, which turned out really good. And they, of course, went over the history of the game and everything like that. So that was a nice one to go to. But before that, on Thursday morning, we got to see the Stern Factory virtual tour. And when I saw that they changed it from the actual in-person tour to the virtual tour, I was thinking I was going to be disappointed. it. But in actuality, it was very engaging and cool because they went to different areas that you would not get to go to in person. So they had Jack Danger on there. And at first I was thinking, oh, they're going to just have it recorded and it's not going to be as interactive. Actually, it was live. So Jack Danger was live walking through the factory and we got to go to where they were building the play fields. And he had the close up shots with his camera. They had a place where you could go and see all the offices, and we actually got to go into Gary Stern's office. That was really cool, where he had some games set up, and he had his bottle of vodka that was sitting on top of the table or on his desk. That was pretty funny. We got to see all the different processes or things that you wouldn't normally see. There was a really funny one where we were looking at part of the video, and there was these bins where they put the stickers, you know, where they have the stickers that come with the game that you can use for other things. But there was one bin that was labeled Goonies. Now, I don't know if that was a secret code word for another game. I think it was the code name for Stranger Things. Oh, okay. Well, there you go. So Goonies was the code name for Stranger Things. There you go. So that was really funny. I was like, whoa, what is that? And I just thought like a split second. But that was a great time. It was about an hour and a half tour. Jack did a great job. And we got to go through the whole process of everything from start to finish and get to see the workers. And it was kind of neat because if you ever watched those shows with how it's made, it was like close up. So you didn't have to like, you know, see it from three feet away. but you can see it literally like inches away to see exactly what's going on when they're manufacturing the parts or assembling it and stuff like that. So that was neat. That was a really good experience. I know it feels like he's kind of segueing out of what he does, but, man, Jack Danger is just so good at doing that hosting thing.
    29:21
    I agree. He was very engaging. He had a great sense of humor, and he really kept his cool. I know he was probably really nervous before it started, but he was just totally relaxed in his presentation. And what was awesome is we had George Gomez give the narration live in front of the audience. So he was showing it off on stream, but George Gomez was live on the microphone, and he did an amazing job. I'll tell you something. George Gomez is a great presenter. He really has a good tone in his voice, very knowledgeable in his things, but speaks in simple terms. So I really enjoyed that with him giving the tour. That was really awesome to have him there. And he's just a great guy. I know at the end of the session they handed out these really nice posters. I forgot who the artist was, but he did a lot of the artwork for Chicago Pinball Expo. And I had George Gomez and Jack Danger sign it because Jack came back to the seminar room when he was done with the tour because Stern is only like 10 minutes away. So it wasn't too far away from the show. But that was neat. That was a really cool opportunity to actually get their autographs and get to meet them in person. Gomez is clearly a man who loves what he does. And as such, he's just incredibly good at it. He's great to hear talk, and he's always got a ton of cool stories and a great presentation. And you can basically set your watch by the fact that when he gives you an answer, it is probably as definitive an answer about whatever he was talking about as you can get.
    31:03
    And he's very personable. He's just a genuine nice guy and very down to earth. So it was wonderful to see that. There were a whole bunch of other seminars we went to that I'm not going to go into detail, But they were all very educational and informational to help understand the hobby better in all different topics. So that was awesome. Then Jason and I went to check out the vendor area. And that was really awesome because they had tons of Godzillas set up. I think they had like 20 Godzillas that were at the show. There were some pros. There were some premiums. And there was one LE that I got to play. thanks to Zach Maney. He brought one that was at his booth, at the Flippin' Out booth. It was his own personal LE that he brought to the show and let everybody play. So I thought that was really cool. And then they had a neat setup of their streaming rig, and I was like, whoa, that is way more advanced than what we do for Reno Pinball. But he had, like, SLR cameras and a huge rig, and now I see why it looks so professional. But it was great to see Zach. It was great to see Zach and Nicole and get to say hi to everybody. It was an awesome time. We got to play Legends of Valhalla. They had about six or seven that were set up, and that was a really great, fun shooting game. I really like the flow of it. The rules are great. The artwork looks way better in person. And the call-outs were excellent. Jeff Teolis did all the call-outs as Odin. and he nailed it. They really sound convincing. In fact, you don't hear any tone of Jeff's voice at all. So obviously he has experience being a voiceover artist. But it really showed in the game and he did a great job.
    32:56
    The other thing I got to see, which was very exciting, was the home brew section. And that's the one thing that is very unique with Chicago Expo is you always have this area that is the home brew section. and the game that I kept coming back to over and over again was Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball.
    33:15
    Awesome game. I wish I could buy it right now and it was in production because it was so much fun to play. The way that he used the assets, I believe the person you might know better than I do, Dan, is it Ryan, I think is his first name? I don't know. You started talking to me about it and I did go online and take a look And I guess that, like, there's a whole, he has a whole series on YouTube that kind of go over the development. And, you know, from the game being basically built, you know, on a desktop and cardboard boxes to being essentially a finished pinball machine. It's a super fascinating journey. And it looks like just a really, really excellent game. And just what a natural theme. it just blows me away that we don't see more video game themes and of course you know Sonic the Hedgehog especially to kids these days and and kids you know from our day that's you know he's iconic like that's such a genius idea exactly and the name of the person is Ryan McQuaid my Ryan McQuaid is the uh designer of that and that was the one that I got to play and he was there. I got to talk to him. The rule sets were solid, fun. You had stage one, you had stage two, just like the video game. He had all the assets that he could use because Sega's okay using the assets as long as it's for a passion project and of course it's not being resold.
    34:51
    And he had all of the what he was doing is he captured all the things from Genesis and then he made them into animated gifts that played over and over again that basically looked like it was live video that was matching with what you were doing in the game. It was pretty amazing and all the work that was put into it. The best part of that was when the kicker shot the ball and it went around in a loop, just like what Sonic does. So it even goes and it makes that sound and it went and it flew right around the loop. That was just awesome. And it goes so fast, you can't even see it going around the loop. It just fires out. And that was really fun.
    35:30
    You know, Sega, they're willing to work with fans on their projects as well, so it would be pretty amazing if, like, a company got interested in this and went to Sega and went to get rights, and this guy actually got to produce this game almost like what happened with Total Nuclear Annihilation. Like, that was a game that started off in the home brew section at shows and turned into a production game. A limited production game was spooky. So, you know, hey, if the spooky pinballs of the world are listening,
    36:01
    you know, go get Sonic before Stern screws you out of it. I know. And the other thing, too, is there was Metroid. There was a... that was not easy to play, but it was fun. There was a Castlevania. There was another one called Greek Gods that was really fun to play, and it had a unique layout to it. And if you want to check that out, You can just go, and I'm sure there's a YouTube video on or something. But that was really fun to play. And you mentioned TNA. There was a TNA that was a part of that homebrew to kind of celebrate all the homebrew machines that have been made that kind of kicked it off with TNA that there is a possibility that a homebrew machine can be produced. And here's what's cool. in the American Pinball Seminar, they have a contest of all the home brewers that if they can produce a game that's never been seen before within a year, they will choose which one won and produce it. Wow. So that's pretty cool. That was the highlight of that seminar. So it's just going to show you. American Pinball wants to support people, and it was great to witness that. All right, so that was Thursday.
    37:21
    Pretty much playing pinball all day. The free play area, I got to give props to Rob Burke. He brought all his games. A lot of the people that volunteered to bring their games did not show up. Two reasons. Number one, the weather was not really feasible for loading and unloading games because it was raining for two days straight. Oh, my God. Remember the rain we had here in Sacramento-Reno area just a couple weeks ago? Yeah. Well, that's what moved into Chicago area. And that was Chicago rain. They get real weather there. And it was cold and it was raining. It wasn't too miserable because it wasn't like frigid cold, but it definitely put a damper on people bringing their games. So all the games that were there, I'd say 75% were Rob Berks. Now, some were working great, some were not. That's understandable if you've got a private collection and you're kind of making up for the things that were missing at the show. But I give props to him, and instead of complaining about it, I just want to congratulate him for putting on a show that was at a new location, which was over at the Renaissance Hotel, much closer to the airport, much bigger venue. And it worked out really well. There was a lot of vendors there.
    38:42
    CERN, like I said, had so many different games to play. They had the Elvira 25th Anniversary Edition. That was, is it, or is it 30th? Sorry, I might have gotten that wrong. 40th? Okay, see, time goes so fast. But it was there, got to see that. They had, of course, some Zeppelins there to play. And, of course, they had Jack Danger's, his prototype, Jurassic Park. The pin was fun to play. I mean, he did a great job on the design. And I wish I could have played more on it, but it was a little too big of a line, believe it or not. People were – there were a lot of lines. There was a lot of people. Yes, everybody was wearing masks. Everybody followed the rules. But it was great to see everybody. Is it just me? Yeah. Or did Jurassic Park the pin come out of the clear blue sky? Nobody saw that coming. Nobody knew it. And I was blown away when it turned out that that was Jack Danger's game. Like, that's absolutely incredible. And he has one that he created as a homebrew, which I want to play so bad, that one that had the weird configurations of shooting the shots all over the place. Yeah. But the Jurassic Park one, he did an amazing job. So, Jack, if you're listening, awesome job on your design of Jurassic Park. It has the feel of Jurassic Park Pro, but in a whole different shot layout, but still staying true to the original game. I'm dying to play it. And, again, the excitement. I played the other home editions. At least some of them I haven't played every single one. But, yeah, I was really, really stoked to see that this one was Jack Danger's game. I know he's been trying to get into that world for a while. And if anyone deserves success and more than just being, you know, the world's best pinball streamer, which he clearly is, it's Jack. Yep, that's right. Yeah, he's awesome. He's awesome. So let's see. I'm trying to think what day was Cactus Canyon released, because that was something that was awesome to see and actually see it revealed. And it was the only game that was revealed at the show, because everybody else already revealed their games before Expo even happened. Was it Friday night? I can't remember.
    41:07
    I'm not 100% sure. I think that that would be right. I just figured we would talk about it. I knew you were going, so I didn't really even keep up. So I don't remember the day exactly, but I do remember I attended the seminar. It was pretty funny because Ryan was late, which was hilarious because we were all waiting in anticipation to see the game. And when they rolled it in, they didn't even have it covered because they were already starting to put them together in the showroom floor that everybody saw.
    41:38
    So they already were taking pictures, so there was really no surprise there. But there was a lot of buzz that there was a possibility that Cactus Canyon would be revealed, and it came to fruition.
    41:50
    And people were very impressed when they started talking about it and actually had it in view. There was a lot of people coming up to the front and taking pictures, and there was Kerry Hardy that was there who was taking video the whole time, and you can see it on his YouTube video. I did get to play it there was a long line before they got kicked us out of the seminar room for the next session so we only agreed that we'll just play one ball so everybody the first couple people played three balls and they were like let's just go one ball and that way everybody gets to play it so I knew that they were mentioning that they were going to be closing up so I was like alright I got five minutes left and it's like oh no there's like two people behind me so I just kind of just held it on the flipper and said here you go. And I walked off because I knew we could go play it in Reno because we'll have it. But it was really nice to get to play it firsthand. And then on the show floor, that place was packed. I mean, there was a line for every single Cactus Canyon. So it was the hit of the show. And it was wonderful to see people excited about a non-licensed game that we all know is pretty rare. from the original? Well, it's non-licensed, but in the pinball community, Cactus Canyon is its own property. Because Cactus Canyon is notorious because, like you were just saying, it's rare. You know, it was a game that never really got off the ground. It was the last of its kind. And, you know, here in Northern California, we've been a little bit blessed for years because we have a local guy who's been extremely generous with his. It makes it to Pinnagogo every year, at least it used to. and I think we had it at Golden State the first couple years. So we've all gotten to play and touch an original, and it's pretty exciting, I think, for the world that Chicago Gaming Company and our friends at PP Planetary Pinball are going to be bringing this game out because I think that a lot of people now will get to experience, you know, kind of a lost treasure.
    44:02
    Yeah, exactly. and the game is gorgeous the topper is very interactive and we can talk about that when we focus on Cactus Cannon because I know that will be part of our talk but it was great to see it revealed at the show and be there for something that I had nothing I knew what to expect as far as the game itself but the way that they remade it is pretty impressive especially with the artwork that they did, just the quality of Chicago Gaming. They just know how to do it. And even though we waited for a long time for it to come out, the reality is it was good that we waited. It was worth the wait. And it is a phenomenal game. It's super fun to play. And people were real jazzed about playing it. And you could feel that vibe during the whole show based on the number of people that were waiting in line. I swear it was like 10 or 12 people waiting for each machine. and there were like four or five to play on the show floor. So there you go.
    45:07
    Friday night, after that, we got a chance to go and actually, now that I think of it, maybe it was Saturday that they revealed it. I can't remember. But anyway, we got to have a chance. It was just too much. Yeah, everything is hard to get each day different. But anyway, Friday night, we had a chance to go to JJ's suite. He had the pin side greet and meet, and that was our meet and greet. It was a nice way to see everybody. Some people, I go, oh, that's who you are, you know, from the pin side handles. You know, you don't usually associate a face with the nickname on pin side and then get to see them in person, even though some of them we could refer to as the armchair quarterback. What do you call those people? They're the ones that are just sitting at their keyboard and basically trying to be a troll or trying to upset people, and they're actually really nice people. I think they just do it just to entertain themselves.
    46:12
    But anyway, it was great. JJ had some Chick-fil-A, and he had two games. He had a Halloween, and he had a Godzilla, and then the following night he had a Medieval Madness. So he had three games in his suite, and of course, Godzilla, we played over and over again. Halloween, code needs to get better, but looks beautiful in person, and the shots are fun. And it was great to hang out, and it was quite a party. Even Gary Stern came up there and hung out with us, which was pretty awesome.
    46:45
    So, yeah, it was fun. It was a private party, felt like a VIP. JJ, thanks for always letting us come up to your suite and have fun and party away at Expo. That was awesome.
    46:56
    Saturday, we went to one of the best highlights of the trip, and that was Pinball Olympics. So Banger Jay, who's on Pinside, has hosted this event. And usually it's over in a garage or at the Pinball Life warehouse. but he decided to host it at his home, which was about 45 minutes away from the show. So, of course, we had a rental car, thanks to Jason, who got it for us, and we drove all the way out there. And, wow, what a party that was. It was like spring break for pinheads. There was beer and there was open bar. There was food with homemade tacos that were probably the best tacos I ever had And I know people talk about it but I a witness They were amazing And then we also had the opportunity to play pinball in the most wackiest way you could imagine So think of taking a normal game and totally modifying it into something that is just crazy.
    48:08
    Well, that's what Banger J or J did with the games. So take, for example, a Bronco, you know, the EM, right? But instead of having Bronco just sitting on four legs, have it connected to an actual riding bull.
    48:30
    So here you are playing Bronco with somebody who's on there, making it harder, tilting the machine and making it go around while you're trying to play an EM. It was awesome. So you're topping around on the mat as you're topping around, trying to keep the ball in control, while the machine is jolting back and forth, bucking at you while you're playing it. That was cool. There's another one that I didn't get to try, and I regret it, but there was just too long of a line. It was where you're laying in a hammock, almost like a tarp, but you were, I guess, what would it be like?
    49:13
    You're suspended in the air with the game, and it was Avengers, and you're actually flying through the air as you're playing the game. So it's hard to describe, but basically you're up in the air, hoisted up with the machine and playing it while you're laying down on your stomach, while you're in the air. There was another one which was a classic one that we all know from Gottlieb, Black Hole. But to make it really freaky, he had a spinning barrel like you see at fun houses. And it was all these different colors that kind of match with the game. As it was spinning, you got disorientated like it was spinning like when you go through the tunnel at Universal Studios. And it looks like your whole entire tram is spinning and going upside down. That's what it would have felt like when you're playing Black Hole. And good news, I took Dramamine. If I would have done that, I probably would have been done for the day. So that was a good thing. You took it for your flight, right? Say it again? You took it for your flight, right?
    50:17
    No, I did not take it for my flight, but I did take it for that event because I knew there was one event that had the TNA that was on a spinning platform. So you're playing TNA while it's spinning around as you're playing the game. And then there was, what is that song?
    50:38
    Round and Round by Rat was playing, and then the other one by Dead and Alive, Spin Me Around. So you hear this, you know, spin me round, round, baby. While you're spinning around in this TNA while it's going, it was awesome. Yeah, Dead and Alive, right? Yeah, Dead and Alive. Yeah, exactly. Yep. So that was going, music blasting, just like a total party atmosphere. They had a whole bunch of other things. You'll have to check it on YouTube. I'm sure people are posting videos now. But every single game made it impossible to play, basically. My favorite one was Metallica, where you had two Metallicas that were wired together, and when you hit the fuel target behind the stand-up targets, it tilts the other person's game.
    51:28
    Yes. Shannon was telling me about this and he was asking me if I knew anybody else who has a Metallica because I have one and he told me what they did and I was like oh that's genius it was so much fun and it was great because it got people pissed off but then it was like everybody was like oh man I'm going to get you I'm going to tilt you now and it was great because by the end you had to keep track of your score and if you tilted the person out that team wouldn't get as high of a score because obviously the next player has to play. And it was funny because I tilted out like three people in a row when it was my turn, and I was nailing that shot, and it was super fun. We'll have to do that if we get two Metallicas and try that out. Maybe at the CSP.
    52:18
    Because if you think about it, it's easy. Like, you don't have to do anything drastic to these games, just some wires and some clips, and you can wire this up. And, yeah, no special programming, no special boards, and what a great head-to-head experience. Exactly. And, yeah, I'm, you know, have you ever played the NBA Fast Breaks when they're linked up? Yes. It's the most fun you can have in pinball. Agree. Like, it's so cool. and I've always wondered why manufacturers, you know, can't figure out a way to make that happen again, and I know cost of entry and two pinball machines is a lot of space and the whole works, but, yes, this Metallica idea is absolute genius, and I'm dying, dying to try it or to find, like, another game where it's like, you know, maybe you do Jurassic Parks and, you know, you make the Raptor target be the tilt button, but, yeah, just you got to find a couple like games. with a difficult-to-hit shot where, yeah, you can punk each other out because I think that sounds great. That was my favorite event, for sure. You know, you guys bring up a good thing, but I just thought of with doing this, with the interconnectivity now, this might be something that they can put into that. It's true. They could. If you had somehow a way to have the software get sent wirelessly to the machine and then have it function that certain way, You could. It's like an option, like an on-screen option. Do you want to play the head-to-head minigame, you know, just like the minigame you're at? P3 already does that. Yep, P3 does. Yeah. Like, you can do that on Cosmic Kart Racing. You could race head-to-head. And maybe that's the future now that we're getting these interconnected machines. But I think that on a technical standpoint, that, like, head-to-head gameplay, the latency, and, like, you know, the machine setup and everything, there's a lot of variables there. I would just, you know, having it in one room, you know, standing back-to-back or side-to-side with somebody and tilting them out without reaching over and kicking the machine, which is not considered cool, seems like it would be a lot of fun. I think we need to set that up for GSPF. I think that would be so awesome. Yeah, so anyway, Pinball Olympics was the highlight for sure. Shout-out to Jim Shelby, who was there. Shannon Miles was there. So we had a couple people from Sacramento that even came out, and we just had a blast. And probably if I go to Expo again, I'd probably go to that again. It was just so worth it. I totally skipped out of the regular tournament. I didn't even want to deal with it. I'm glad I didn't because when I talked to people who stayed in the tournament, they missed out on all the fun of Expo. So I'm really glad I didn't do the tournament this time. Actually, well, yeah, it was the right decision. We had a local guy who did play, other than Dan Costa played. Yes. And he told me that the games were set killer hard. Killer hard. And, yeah, of course, you know, all the best players are there, you know, competing. Because I think the prize is a stern. So all the games are newer sterns. And, yeah, no outlaying posts, no rubbers, you know, just basically set to kill. and he was like, wow, I need to make my games at home a lot harder to get ready for this. They were set brutal. And I didn't get to play them, but I talked to Dan for a long time, and he was telling me, yeah, it was very tough, tough tournament. But he still had fun, and he did pretty well. He got like halfway through in the B division, so must be out for him. Yeah, don't say that to his face, though. He gets a big head. Yeah? If you're listening, other Dan, you suck at pinball. drawing. That's right. Just tell your games to us cheap. Yeah, exactly. I'll take that sweet shadow that he's having restored. It's real pretty. Yeah. The other thing I'll mention, and then I'm done with Expo, because I know I spoke way longer than I was supposed to, so I apologize. No, it's the big thing that we kind of anticipated this. Okay, okay. Mark, you touched great areas that the other podcasters I really didn't hear talk about as much. Okay, well, that's good. I got to play the game that sold not the actual game, but it was the same title of game that sold for $40,500 at Museum of Pinball auction. And it was Rat Race.
    56:57
    Oh, you got to play one. I got to play a Rat Race. And it was a maze with a pinball. That's the only way I could describe it. There was like a spiral where you had to go, and it had all opto switches that recognized when the ball went over the different numbers to let you know that you went through the different sequence. So there was like a spiral. There was a set of columns that looked like a football field, and you had to move the ball. And it was like a Brio. Remember the Brio labyrinth games? That's exactly what it was like. It was like a giant labyrinth with a pinball where you had to navigate the ball through the different obstacle course. It was really fun, and I was addicted to it because I wanted to try to get through the whole game, and it was not easy because you had a time limit, and, of course, if you missed your shots, then your time went down and you couldn't finish the game. But it was really fun, and it was very exciting to get to play it. And I could see why, I mean, that's a lot of money for a game, but it was fun, and it was definitely unique. There's, what, a handful, seven, eight, ten prototypes, if that. I don't know enough about it. I've heard about it. I've seen pictures. Yeah. Well, when I talked to them, they were telling me that I was like, is this the one you got in banning? Like, no, no, this is not the one we got in banning. I'm like, well, this is cool, though, that you brought it and you're letting everybody play it because it's a very rare game. But a neat concept. And it had a little joystick and you basically just move the table to have it tilt forward and backwards and left and right. And it was very addictive. I kept playing it over and over again. and they also had a joust right next to it. So they had two rare games that you got to play on the show floor, and that was really fun. The other game I got to play that was rare was Iron Maiden, the Stern version. Oh, Stern Iron Maiden. Okay, the old one, the old Clash of Stern. The old Stern Iron Maiden. Yeah, I got to play that too, and that was playing really well. And Jason and I put up a couple of games on that too. But overall, great show. Got to meet a lot of people. Got to meet people from Loser Kid Podcast. Got to meet people from Flippin' Out, of course.
    59:13
    Got to see Kerry Hardy. All the people that I listen to, and of course, we all get inspired by their shows and everything that they do in the pinball community. Got to meet them all in person, and it was really nice to associate a name with a face where you usually don't see the picture, you just hear their audio on their podcast. So it was great to see everybody. And Joel was another person we saw who just started a pinball podcast, and he's getting to be pretty popular now. So it was great to hang out with everybody, play a couple of games, and really enjoy ourselves. So, yeah, Pinball Expo was really fun, and I enjoyed it. And I don't know if it's going to be a yearly thing or not, because I'd like to try out MGC and see what that's like and try to, you know, maybe go to Rocky Mountain. but pinball Olympics that's something you can't do anywhere else in the world and that I tell you is worth it totally worth it so that's my report on Chicago Pinball Expo I'm sure I missed some stuff but there's just too much to talk about and we have so many topics so there you go no it was a nice overview I want to add a couple things real quick I kind of forgot about because you were talking about rare games I played a speakeasy at the Rocky Mountain show. I don't know if you guys know this game. Early 80s Valley. It's an Adaball game. What?
    60:38
    Yes. Yeah, you know what? This one was in very nice shape. Everything seemed to work correctly. It played. It was fun. It was different. It was unique. I played that, and then I wrote one more down. Oh, and you were talking about the Homepins. They had two of the Star Wars home pin wedged in between JJ did from Game Exchange wedged in between a regular Star Wars and a comic edition and I also did get to play finally a premium Mandalorian. I did not get to play a premium Stranger Things there was one there. Dude, that line was huge. You could not get near that thing and I just sent one because I was only there the one day. I had a minimum amount of time, I figured, you know what, I'll get out to Reno and play the one where you are, Mark. Yeah, and that will be very soon. Getting close.
    61:35
    Nice, nice. Getting close. Thank you. You know, with all the shows and the cool rare games that people bring and all the good stuff now, just all the goodwill and the good times and getting back to pinball, man. You know, it just, oh God, it feels good, you know.
    61:54
    I feel like your report wasn't complete enough Mark, I'm going to give you a C-. So great notes. Actually, you know, hearing you guys, you and other Dan and everyone who's talked to me about Chicago, you know, I've never really felt the need to get on an airplane and fly across the country to go to a pinball show, and now I'm sort of like, yeah, I don't know, man. That does sound pretty cool. It was fun. I love Golden State, though. I'm going to plug that because Golden State has the best variety of games anywhere. And I've been to a lot of shows. I've been to Tech Spinball Festival, Chicago Expo, of course, Pinnagogo. But I'm telling you, GSPF really has good games, good variety of games. We bring out the freaky stuff. Yeah, definitely. I mean, there was no Viking. There was no, you know, things that you see at GSPF, I did not see at Chicago Pinball Expo. Of course, we saw Jersey Jack. They had their own area, too, and that was great to play all the games. But, yeah, I love GSPF. I'm telling you, I'm surprised not more people go to it, but maybe that's a good thing because, you know, then the crowds are not as big. But, man, I'll tell you.
    63:14
    Well, I would say my biggest shock this year coming out of Expo was, I mean, we all knew Cactus was coming. Like I said, I did get kind of blindsided by Jurassic Park Home Edition. I don't remember if that was announced before the show or not. But there really wasn't any big news coming out of it. Jersey Jack didn't announce their next title. Spooky obviously doesn't have anything to say. They're deep on Halloween and Ultraman. American didn't announce a new title. It's just sort of showing what we've got, I guess. And if I went all the way there, I would be a little disappointed, especially being that it's, you know, the other shows that we talk about, those are enthusiast shows. And it seems like Texas gets announcements. You know, I think Texas might have a claim to being almost an industry show. But Pinball Expo is the show of the industry, and you do really hope for some news coming out of it. Yeah, I agree. There was nothing from Jersey Jack about any rumor or anything that I could detect for Toy Story or whatever is supposedly coming down the line from Jersey Jack.
    64:30
    I would have been happy with just Pirate's Code. Yeah, I know. Any day now. Yeah. Fingers crossed. You know, too, it's, I mean, they're full steam ahead just trying to meet right now. I would assume that JJP is just full steam ahead, you know, buttholes and elbows just trying to get Guns N' Roses, you know, games completed and out the door. Yeah. And it's funny too, because JJP is literally right across the street. Like they're one block away from each other from Stern. And on Wednesday we actually crashed both of those places. And they obviously did not let us in because they were like, well, we can't let you in because of COVID. But we did crash Jersey Jack and Stern to see if we could, you know, we were just joking and said, hey, we're here for the tour.
    65:17
    Sorry, but there's no tour. We're close personal friends of Steve Ritchie, and we're just here for lunch. Yeah, we were working on that. But, no, we couldn't get past the entrance, but the lady was really nice. That was, it was funny because when we went there, the employees were leaving at the same time we got there. and she was really nice and talked to us for a half hour. It's like, oh, we promised we're going to have, you know, in-person tours once this COVID thing is gone and blah, blah, blah. And she was really nice. I thought she was going to be like, sorry, you need to leave right now. It wasn't like that at all. I was like, wow, she's pretty nice for us just, you know, basically.
    65:56
    We're here because we want Jack to autograph something and he wouldn't let you into his office immediately. That dude loves to sign things. They did let us play the games, though, in the foyer. Really? At JJP. They did. That was cool. Did you have to put quarters in them, or were they on free play? They were on free play. See, there you go, man. Worth the trip. It was worth it. I forgot to say that. You get to play some of that Wonka, man. I love that game. Yeah, Wonka's good. If you're playing free pinball, man, at a bucket game, why not? Yeah, that was fun, though. That was the other thing we did on Wednesday after we went to Merrick Pillar. We were like, well, let's just go and check out the other places before they close. That's what we did. So that was fun. That's awesome.
    66:39
    So we were talking about Cactus Canyon earlier, and because, like Dan said, you know, when I was still living, you know, near Dan, I had the affordability to have a couple of collectors with Cactus Canyons nearby. So I had a lot of availability to play the game. I really enjoyed the game, both just the original Cactus Canyon and then the continued program. We played both quite a bit.
    67:07
    What took me what little I just did was a new game. Well, the topper, holy moly, that topper is awesome. You know, that's a topper I'm going, just like with the Black Knight, like, oh, if I get that game, I want one. Well, and, you know, the cool thing is that the topper is going to be made available to people who are buying the special edition. That's right. Yes. Which is pretty rad. I was kind of hoping that they would do that. I mean, I do think that it's – I do kind of think that the limited edition thing has run its course. Like, if so many people want the limited edition that you can't get it, it's like, make more, guys. Take the money. You know, I don't care if I'm number 1,002 or 1,003 or 2,460. Like, if somebody wants it bad enough, you know, make them one. And, you know, and I understand that, you know, there's a whole thing where the speculators and the collectors are just like, oh, but then it's not special. But it's just like, you know, who cares? You're not beholden to them. You know, you didn't, you don't, you know, they're not sacred cows. You know, just make more if people want to spend their money. But I'm glad that they did that. I'm glad they did what they did with Medieval Madness where they made those parts available to people who had bought those games earlier as well. even though they did step on us limited edition people, but that's just me being bitter. But, Dan, to go along with what you're saying,
    68:34
    Cactus Canyon Limited Edition does have some special things that people don't emphasize enough, and that is a wooden apron. You don't have that on any pinball machine with a wooden apron. That's pretty cool. Didn't Wizard of Oz do, like, a wooden apron? You are right about that. Okay. So I'm not saying the limited edition isn't cooler than the special edition. And I'm a little disappointed that they went away from the standard edition because I do think that there was that piece of the market where it's like somebody wants to pay their $6,000 or $6,500 and get something that's a reasonable facsimile of the original. The original size display, none of the extra artistic flourishes, you know, no color display, stuff like that. But, I mean, I understand, you know, from a production standpoint, why it's like, why make the cheap one when we can make the more expensive ones? At the same time, I just don't think that features should be locked behind a paywall and kept away from people who are willing to pay for them. Yeah, and I think that's what Cactus, or I mean, that's what the gaming company did. I think that's what CGC did. They did it right. Yeah, the interest is there. People are willing to pay, you know, an extra. I mean, you know, it's $1,250, but they're willing to pay for that topper. It actually makes me feel pretty good about spending $650 on the Medieval Madness one, which I was just, like, kicking myself in the butt for at the time. I was like, I'm crazy.
    70:04
    But, yeah, I think it's cool that they're doing it. And, again, I think that it's a beautiful piece of equipment. The pictures look great. Like, Cactus Cane in itself is a neat game with a neat style that's different than almost anything else out there. And I think that the stuff that they're doing to make it even better is super, super cool. And it's campy, and it's fun, and it has that same feeling like it has with Monster Bash and Attack from Mars. It's got the humor, and I think sometimes when you have really serious games, it takes the fun out of playing it. Halloween is a perfect example. I just don't have fun playing it because I don't feel motivated with it because there's just no character to it. And Cactus Canyon has character, and it's funny. And the call-outs are great. The theme is wonderful. And what better machine to have in Reno, Nevada than a Western theme? or in California. There aren't very many Western games. Right. I mean, at least not modern Western games. I know that if you go back into the EM and maybe even the early solid state days, you had a fair amount of, you know, Cowboys and Indians games and stuff like that. You know, and then there were certainly a couple in the 80s, you know, Sharpshooter.
    71:29
    But, yeah, besides Maverick, which is really kind of almost more gambling, you know, I can't think of a lot of games that had a Western theme. And that's what was really cool about Cactus was it went really well. It was kind of part of a trilogy at Ballywillians, right? You had your sci-fi game or maybe even a quadrilogy. You had your sci-fi game in your Attack from Mars. You had your medieval times game in your medieval madness. You had a safe horror in Monster Bash and also kind of music. And you had your Western game there. And unfortunately, the Western game never really got off the ground, but now it's going to get its chance. It's really getting its chance, and obviously it says it right there. I mean, I wonder how many SE Pluses they've sold. But with the LEs, they were all sold through or sold out or whatever you want to call it. I'm sure you can get some at distributors.
    72:22
    But anyway, it was a huge hit, and it shows. We have a Cactus Canyon at Playfield 76, as I'm speaking right now. Cactus Canyon number one, right? Titus Canyon, I believe, was the number one prototype. Yes, I believe it was. And it has the topper on it. And I know that Rick is getting the new parts. I think those were the prototype parts for the gunslinger for Bad Bart. Is it big? I forgot what his character's name is. I think it's like Bad Bart. Bad Bart, yeah.
    72:59
    And, wow, like you said, Spencer, The topper is so cool because when you're in a shootout, it not only just fires the gun at you, but it hesitates as it's ready to draw the gun, and then it points at you. The topper itself, with the different windows, is fun where you move your left or your right buttons to move a little LED that's a star. And when it's lined up with the window and you hit both buttons at the same time, It fires and it puts like a skull and crossbones to show that you killed the enemy or you accidentally killed an innocent victim. Oh, that sounds cool. Yeah. So, yeah. So you literally are interacting with the game. And what's nice is it takes a while to get to the shootout mode where it's not the same repetitious thing over and over that it slows down the play of the game. It's activated by hitting the beer mug. So when you hit the beer mug and you hit it five times, then it will activate the shootout. And then you can do the topper shootout with the interaction with the actual windows in the display of the building. So let me ask you something, Mark. And I know you're excited, and I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just going to play devil's advocate here. Have you played medieval, or not medieval, have you played Cactus Canyon before? I have. I've had a chance to play it at, I played the Cactus Canyon Continued, which was, I believe it was at Pinnagogo a while back, and it was also at California Extreme. It was probably the same one that most of us had played, because I think the same guy always brought it around. That's the one I played in person, and then the one I played for the regular code was just on Pinball Arcade. on the iPad.
    74:55
    And yes, it was shallow. The code was shallow, and it was like, oh my gosh, I got to the end before I know it. Not even getting into the code, because the code obviously was unfinished. And I was just going to ask, you know, what you thought of it compared to the remake? Because here's the thing with the remake, and I mean, I know this might be kind of going off of the beaten path, but like you said, the original code is shallow. The original, or the remake, even before any potential future new code revisions is supposed to have enhanced and quote-unquote finished code. And that, to me, is the most interesting thing because I've had ample time with Cactus Canyon, and I've played quite a bit of Cactus Canyon Continued, which I think for a guide who just did that is an amazing, amazing accomplishment. I'm really like hey man, do I think this game is worth $8,000 and I'm just like man, if the code's in line I have a really hard time thinking that I wouldn't want to order a special edition of this because I think that the play field itself is quality the art and the sound and the music were always really good, it's got great toys, it just never backed it up by having really great rules.
    76:19
    The rules are fine, but it didn't have the polish. It didn't feel finished. Or it was too easy. It was too easy to play.
    76:30
    There's a market for easy games. Monster Bash is an easy game and everybody loves it. I think Godzilla is on the easy side, although you wouldn't have known that watching me play it today. and it seems like people love it. I think hard games are almost a turn off and, you know, Monster Bash, I think, I'm doing it again.
    76:50
    Cactus, I think, was always a game that if people had gotten their hands on it, I wonder if that would be a medieval madness and an attack from Mars and a Monster Bash or if that would be a junkyard or a champion pub, you know, a neat oddity that I don't know if people would have necessarily loved because, again, it is a little on the basic side software-wise. I agree. And the other thing, too, is has this game sold out so fast because they know that Lyman is going to be at the forefront of developing the code that hopefully will be coming out in the next year or so, maybe less than that, that is motivating people to buy it, or is it the theme? I'm curious, and I know they're probably going to charge extra for it, But if it's a totally different game, it's almost like, you know, a P3 where you're getting a different game. Maybe you're having the same play field, but it totally changes it up if Lyman does it. And we all know I have not been disappointed in his code yet. I don't know if you have, but I have not. I think every time. He's done a lot of games.
    77:58
    LE-wise, it sold out for two reasons. Number one, it's $1,000 cheaper than any other LE on the market, more like $1,500 cheaper. and I think that the speculators got into that thing in full force, knowing that it's probably going to be an easy resell.
    78:15
    You know, luckily, you know, you are going to be able to get the same experience in the special edition, which, as far as I know, is unlimited. They'll make as many as they can sell.
    78:26
    I don't know. I mean, the Lyman code is really the great unknown there, right? You know, what's it going to be and what's it going to cost and is it going to cost anything, which apparently the answer is almost certainly yes. And, you know, my hope when I heard of the Lyman code contingency thing, and I think you and I actually spoke about this a little bit the other day, was if he does new code for Cactus, which isn't even his game, is there any chance that he might, you know, revisit Monster Bash, which is his game, Attack, which is his game, and, of course, for me, Medieval Madness, which I would love to have more code on Medieval Madness although what's there is great and if he does do new code you know are we going to get new assets are we going to get new video and sound assets and what's it going to look like so I mean I would hope that people didn't spend $9,000 hoping for Lyman code because I think that that's setting the entire project up for disappointment but this is pinball and we do a lot of silly things. So it's entirely possible that, you know, a good amount of people who jumped on these LEs jumped on because, you know, they feel like, you know, in Lyman we trust. And the other thing, too, is what's great is I can confirm this, that Lyman has permission to redo or not redo, but create code for the remakes.
    80:01
    So there is a possibility. There is a possibility that, like you said, that he could be developing other rule sets for the previous games. But some of them are so good, I would be amazed how he can make it deeper. But with Cactus Canyon, it makes the most sense to focus on that one first because it is easy to get to the wizard mode and there are a couple of things that are added to the enhanced. I haven't got through the whole game. I was close, and I was thinking, okay, well, I almost got to high noon, and it was like on my second ball.
    80:39
    But they do have Bionic Bart, which is a fun mode. You can't go wrong with the Stampede. That's always fun. And, of course, the shootout with the bad guys, when you have the opportunity to add a ball every time you hit enough bad guys, then it keeps going. Maybe in the enhanced code they might fix that where it is a time limit instead of going forever because you can keep that going as long as you want until your balls drain.
    81:08
    But I don't know. I think it will be a pleasant surprise to see what Lyman comes up with. And then the other thing that I want to mention is the display. They just nailed it. It's so good. the display and the animations, how they recreated it from the DMD. Amazing. Right. Amazing. I think that that's been their strong point so far. I've heard that with this game, they did redo the operating system so that it's less of like a shell that like an emulation of the original game runs in, and it's more like a new framework that the original game runs in, so the menus and everything will work a little bit more naturally. Because right now, if you want to change, you know, like coil settings and whatnot, you go into a CGC menu. Then to change game settings, you start the game and you go into the game menu. And I've heard that some of that stuff is what's going to allow them to do these enhanced code sets and whatnot. I'm wondering, because somebody was telling me about this the other day, and I didn't know if this was true or not, if they have gotten a hold of F the Geek and come to an understanding, and maybe they will get to use some of his continued style content. Because he did do some really incredible extra modes and things, and he even got the original voice actors to do extra call-outs and whatnot. And it would be really nice to see some of that content make the trip. Yeah. It seems like a long shot, though. Yeah, we'll have to see what happens, because I know the licensing issue with the Cactus Canyon Continued is controversial.
    82:51
    Even though it wasn't sold, it still was using some assets that it wasn't supposed to and everything. So that's how they want to do it. It was a project, right? It wasn't for sale, like Sega sort of, right? Right. But, of course, maybe Valley Williams isn't quite as understanding. I think that, you know, what I heard he did to do it was basically he took a P-Rock and just basically hand-recreated the original game. Like, he didn't use any of their original code, but he did use the music and the call-outs and the assets. And, of course, there's licensed stuff like the Skrillex song and Cowboys and Aliens and assets from other games and all sorts of silly stuff, which, I mean, you wouldn't expect to see in a commercial product. But, you know, stuff like he did a mode where like a, I'm trying to think, there's like an EM mode in it, which is really, really super cool. And, you know, the super skill shot, the way that that works is really, really smart. And it's just, he did some gameplay stuff to that game that took, you know, the unfinished experience and finished it. You know, even if it was just what the game was. I mean, if that was all they were selling, I think that it would be amazing. Lyman obviously is going to do great things. The guy is a genius. Well, I would be surprised if he takes the ideas from Cactus Canyon, Rime, or Cactus Canyon Continued, and puts those elements into his own code. That's what would be the best of both worlds. That's what I was asking. I heard that, like, there had been contact between the camps. Yeah. And Epigee had given his blessing. But when I heard that originally, I'd heard that like, hey, I'd love to talk, but I haven't heard from him. You know, I don't believe for a second that Lyman is going to take somebody else's ideas.
    84:44
    You know, I think that Lyman is way too smart and proud to do that. Like, I think Lyman will bring his own creativity to the table and will make that game do some fascinating things. Well, I'm excited to see what he comes up with. The other thing I want to mention, and I've seen it improve game after game, but I think they've nailed the feeling of the flippers to feel like Williams flippers as far as no latency. And I'm thinking maybe running the code in the shell, like you mentioned, might have caused that. I don't know how that really can be true because it's mechanical, but you noticed it and I noticed it that there was a latency when Medieval Madness came out. I've never noticed a latency.
    85:32
    See, I have. It hasn't felt like that. I didn't own a medieval, but I had a medieval on a long-term loan, and I gave it back right before I got my remake.
    85:44
    And so I would definitely be in a spot where I would feel a difference in flipper time. And, yeah, I never ran into that. I know that on Pinside for like a hot second there was a topic where somebody was sure he found the latency, and then they pointed out the mistakes in his math and the whole works, and they backed off and said that it was similar to the original. I think that the biggest problem with the flippers on the remakes is that, if anything, they're too powerful. They don't feel like a Williams flipper. If you turn the power way down, they feel more like a Williams flipper. but honestly enough, I usually just go with the default settings and chalk the gameplay difference up to, you know, one's old, one's new. Sure, sure. You know, and I've played, you know, I've owned, you know, the big three, and I've played remakes of all of them, and, you know, I think that, you know, is it exactly like the original? No, obviously not, you know. It's designed to be a reasonable facsimile of, and, you know, So there's some modern enhancements, and there's some stuff that, you know, I don't think made the trip as well. I think that they've never gotten their sound balance right. I think that it's a little bit ridiculous. In some cases, like with Attack from Mars, they couldn't get the Martians to be quite as wiggly as the originals. Oh, yeah, you're right about that. Yeah, they jump up and down. They just look very stiff. And that's why somebody got to develop a product called Big Jiggly Martians, and, you know, the world makes everything right. I got something I can add to that about the Martians. Are you a big, jiggly Martian, Spencer? I got a big, jiggly Martian. You win.
    87:27
    Okay, so last Golden State, 2019. We're at the Steve Charlin Spirit Award dinner and presentation, which I host. And we're having dinner with, at our table is Mike Minicore and Tanya O'Clyde. I said, we're just talking a story. And they're telling a story about, yeah, they had a hell of a time when they were making Attack from Mars because the Martians kept breaking. When they jump up and down, they went round and round trying to find the right mixture of, you know, plastics and PVC, whatever they were using. I forget, rubber, whatever, where it would be firm enough to hold up over long-term play but would bounce and be jiggly. And it took them because they kept breaking. And it took them a while to finally get that right. So with the remake, like a lot of things, when they remake it, you know, the whitewater topper, they're having a hell of a time with that. Yeah, they've never figured out how to make that reflective topper work. Right, the creature from the Black Lagoon, the hologram. You know, so there's things out there where, okay, well, they never wrote down the recipe for this, or if they did, nobody knows where it is. They, you know, stuck it in a drawer somewhere and forgot about it. But who was going to care 30 years later? Exactly. It's not like we're going to remake these. Oh, well, maybe. Maybe we are.
    88:54
    It's just that little anecdote. Thank you to Mike Vinicore and Tanya Clive for that wonderful dinner conversation and sharing those little fun tidbits of pinball trivia.
    89:06
    Yeah. And if you ever make it to the show and do not go to the Spirit Dinner, You're missing out because it is absolutely just a wonderful chance to recognize somebody in, you know, the pinball hobby, especially in Northern California or all of California. But it's just a great time with some great people. So go to the Spirit. Go to the Spirit. Totally agree. I went there, too, and it was awesome. Yeah, it's the best part of the weekend. It really is a real celebration of pinball and of Steve, who is just a real ambassador of the hobby, which I want to bring something up, a side note. So real quick, Kathy Charlton, Steve's wife, she's currently selling some wood rail games, early godly wood rails, on Facebook, on the pinball collectors. You just type in pinball, it'll come up. I'm sorry, I don't remember exactly which one it is. on the numbers. West Coast Pinball Collectors? If you're interested, reach out to Spencer and we'll get you in touch. Yeah, just reach out to spinnerislid at gmail.com and I'll get you a shot over to Kathy. We're friends on Facebook.
    90:17
    Yeah, so she's throwing Lady Robin Hood, Humpty Dumpty, which if you don't know, is the very first pinball machine to ever have flippers. And a couple other early flippers. That's right. A couple other early, like late 1940s early flipper Gottlieb Woodrow. And these were owned by Steve, man. So if you're like, oh, I'm feeding for a cool Gottlieb that was owned by Steve, here's your chance. It might be your last chance because most of his collection, what's left that they haven't sold is pretty much staying with Kathy or Kathy's daughters.
    90:53
    You know, they have the ones they wanted the most. So thanks for bringing that up, Dan. Oh, no sweat. Yeah, so to finalize Cactus Canyon, it shoots great, and the flippers feel like Williams flippers. That's how I felt when I played it. So, anyway. Remakes are awesome. It played great. And the toppers are amazing. It's a great game. We're giving games to people who couldn't have them before. Don't be a hater, Mike Huntsman. Don't be a hater. Don't be a hater guy. Seriously, Mike Huntsman's going to listen to this, but if he does, I love him like a brother. Don't be a hater. I don't want to be a hater of a guy somewhere in the Midwest that owns, cool, 17 original medieval madness games. No, that guy's already a hater. They know not hating that. He's a speculator.
    91:41
    But, yeah, that's just what I was saying. The speculators are just, you know, they snapped up those limited, those collector's editions. Yeah, that sucks. But you know what? Don't do something stupid. Don't buy them. They'll eventually have to get out of them for what they're into them. The special edition is just as good with, you know, a couple missing accoutrements. And you know what, man? Modders are going to make it right. That's right. Modders are going to make it right. Also, you can buy a lot of cool pieces from Planetary Pinball Supply, you know, for your games. That's right. And you can trick them out. You know, make it yours. and as far as I'm concerned they're the best distributors because they have the most allotment of the Cactus Canyon remakes shout out to Rick Bartlett and Planetary Pinball they do a great job with their customers love them or hate them he's been supporting us and pinball since the beginning he's been keeping it real he comes to the shows he sells us the parts he gives us candy yep and thanks him, he allows us to play his prototype that's sitting at Playfield 76 and it will be going to press start when they open. Just so you know.
    93:00
    I got a rock. So yeah, so it's going to press start in hopefully in a couple of weeks. It's going to be opening up and Cactus Can will be there as its permanent home. Are we going to get an opening party for press start too? I need an invite, buddy. I had a good time at the Playfield 76. Oh, we'll definitely have one. We went back. Me and I took my buddy. We went back and spent some money and played some games and, yeah, had a really good time, man. That is just a great place. And I'm telling you, man, once you get out of the pretty area of Utah and until you hit Reno, it is desert, boys. Nothing but for like nine fucking hours. But then Playfield 76 is an oasis.
    93:48
    Yes. I just made that drive like two a week ago. Hell, a week ago. I know. I'm surprised you didn't go to Playfield 76 when you were here in Reno. Bro, I was burning through them now. I didn't know you were even in Reno. Because I was in Reno. I got into Reno on a Sunday. No, on a Monday night a week ago. It would be a week ago this Monday.
    94:10
    I got. A week ago? Yeah. No. It would be two weeks. Okay. So I lose track of time. And I got in like at 1130 at night, man. I got into my hotel, checked in, got a shower, went to sleep, got up, had breakfast with Greg. Boom. I was in California an hour and 45 minutes later on a job site walking through with the project manager.
    94:34
    And then I was, you know, lunch with my old office manager and then up to home office and dinner with the owner of the company. and then on the way back it was just like I want to get home I've been gone for a week and I just like I didn't even stop in Reno man I was just through through Sparks and I was thinking about going darn I wish I could call you and say Mark I'm in town let's do dinner but you know but I mean there'll be other trips okay no problem and Dan I know you wanted to come out to the launch party last Tuesday but the weather did not allow you to come so yeah it was just bad weather Bad weather. Short notice, bad weather. Yeah, I would have loved to have made it to that because, again, there's no party like a Playfield 76 party. A big shout-out to Mark and everyone who puts together the great events and the whole staff and the owner's team and everything there. It is the pinball oasis. It is the nicest most chill place to grab a drink grab a bite of some bar food and play some games in Reno Better than a barcode a barcade by far It definitely an arcade lounge of the highest order So please, please, please, you know, I make it a point to go there and spend a couple hours and play some games every time I'm in town. Easy parking next door too. Yeah, thanks, Dan. It is a fun place to be, and we've got a great group of people that come when we offer the tournaments and the launch parties. And there is a Godzilla, by the way, coming soon. So just to let you know, going to get a Godzilla. Speaking of Godzilla, was it about our next topic or am I skipping ahead? No, you're right on target, sir.
    96:21
    So, I don't know. I feel like we've covered the hell out of Godzilla. I think we have. I played the pro. You know. I haven't played the premium with Ellie. It's fun. It shoots great. the call outs, everything about it it's a solid slam dunk man they're showing up everywhere on location game of the year I'm going to tell you that right now, it's going to get game of the year it's so good only because Guns N' Roses came out last year yeah, that's true you know what, I'll say this I did get to be part of unboxing at LE with my friend Henry, or our friend Henry he's a super super good guy and in person it's an absolutely beautiful looking game the art and the clear coat or the powder coat are both really really good looking and the game has won me over I still think the play field art is a little on the uggo side just way too much going on there and I still think that it's kind of disjointed with the hard rock music and the classic rock music and the classic sound effects but there is supposed to be I guess a way to customize your music in one of the upcoming revisions. And the call-outs in that game are just genius. They're genius. Like when I was at the show, I was just like, oh, this is just cheesy and stupid. But when I got to listen to them in a home environment and I got to hear some of the nuance to them, and, you know, I'm just like, oh, this game actually does a really good job of doing what it's trying to do. And I just bet as the software matures that that game is going to be a real, just a real masterpiece. And, like, I think I agree. Like, it's going to be by far the best game that CERN has probably put out. I mean, that's high praise because I didn't think anything would be better than Iron Maiden. Yeah, it's so good, the rule sets. It's just playing, it's clever because Keith says, all right, Anybody who doesn't know pinball, I'm just going to have them just shoot up the middle at the building to get multiball. Simple. But then when you get into the different modes, is it Ebra? Is that what it is? Ebra is the first one with the spinners. That's my favorite one. Trying to hit all three spinners. Genius. And then when you defeat them, once you get through it, then you team up with a monster, which is like a totally different mode, which I never got to except one game that I played over on Jason's game. Well, the team-ups are like perks. So good. If you get Mothra, you get an outling save, and if you get, I forgot who the one, but one of them gives you an add-a-ball. Yeah. And I thought that was really cool because, and that's one of the things that Stern's been really smart about, like Mandalorian really does this a lot, is they give you a chance to, like, earn rewards or to buy rewards with in-game currency.
    99:22
    And, you know, and I think that that's cool because it lets you kind of pick your own destiny in games. So Godzilla takes, you know, a lot of those really smart things that I think that they've been doing. And, you know, I think it's pretty hard not to say that, like, Keith Elwin is, you know, Keith Elwin. And gosh, I always forget his programmer. I don't even forget his programmer too and he does such a great job yeah they are the dream team right now like they're getting it done and especially when you put them with Zombie Yeti who I still don't think was the ideal art choice for this game but I mean it's certainly not you know objectionable I think that they're doing a good product and if the rumors are true and their next project is Back to the Future I will be so stoked because it will finally be a Keith Elwin theme that I want. Are you saying Keith Elwin, there's a possibility that he might be doing Back to the Future? The rumor is that the Keith Elwin team's next game is Back to the Future. Rush is coming up or is said to be coming up? No, it's confirmed because when – I can tell you real quick. When John Borg was there at the CERN seminar, he walked off and they played Rush music. You know what? I still say Stern would troll you guys, but, you know, there's been a lot pointing that way. And, you know, I have a friend of mine who we went and bought a game from. It turns out a fellow who I'd bought a game from before. And while we were there, he was talking big time about Rush, and he's really excited. So hopefully it's Rush. And then there's the big rumor about that Steve Ritchie had a Bond game in the bag before he took off. and the other one is, you know, that Yeti and his team are on Back to the Future. Not Yeti, but one of his team and Yeti are on Back to the Future. Man, if that's true. Well, can that be my next doing box? Because Back to the Future is a grailed game for me. That is a team. I'll make some heavy sacrifices so that that can go with my Ghostbusters and my Star Trek and all my sterns in a row. yeah that's gonna be amazing if they can do a really cool mech with the delorean or something hopefully they do justice to that but really i mean godzilla they nailed it for max they finally got that wow back into pinball that's how i feel like when that building collapses and the balls get released that's like it brings me back to my college days when i got wowed at 90s games like the castle blowing up medieval madness or, you know, the saucer shaking when you blew it up. You know. All that magic under the glass. They nailed it this time, finally. Stern finally did it. The Godzilla mech is where it's at. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. It's so sweet. Like, it just, it makes that part of the game make sense. I mean, the building is awesome. And I'm, you know, I love watching the ball block on top of it. I love the fact that it changes the direction of the balls. You know, that is a great, great mech. The bridge, I'm not super impressed with so far. It just sort of spazzes out. But, yeah, the one that I think really enhances the game is that Mechagodzilla mech. Like, it is so cool. It is cool. Because it changes the gameplay when it rotates. It's so awesome. It makes that part of the game make sense. Like, in the pro, the Mechagodzilla sequence just almost doesn't make sense. but when you know you hit him and then he turns on the shield and the targets turn and the field is there and then when you you hit him a few times the shield goes down it opens back up and you launch the ball into him and he he catches it with that magnet on his chest you're just like oh like this is genius like this is smart yeah like this is just smart design like somebody looked at that and they just came up with the right thing at the right time and they really made that go and next and I can see why, you know, I can see now, you know, I think that, you know, people were excited because of the theme and people were excited because of Elwin, which, you know, is fair because he's doing great work. But I do think that like that game is a statement by Stern that it's just like, look, we know our games were getting a little bit skinny for a while. We were trying to figure out this LCD thing. Well, here you go. The mechanisms are back, you know, and I think that they're putting, you know, I know everything is more expensive. I know their prices went up $1,000, but as long as they pour that $1,000 into the play field so that you have those experiences again, it's a lot harder to be upset. Yeah, I agree. And the other thing too is, do you think that Elwin intentionally designed it so that if you hit it when it wasn't ready to catch it with the magnet, it would deflect off his arm and go into the habit trail? Did you notice that? I think it was a happy accident. Because it's a great design. I know he's a great designer, but I mean, I think that half of like the cool stuff that happens in pinball, like, you know, the way that the Iron Maiden ball lock ended up working for the release. Yes. I think that that just sort of happened. And then they said, oh, this is a cool thing. We need to make it work like this. Yeah. So I think that that ball flying off, you know, just like, you know, when you play Indiana Jones, the pinball adventure and you get massive towering air balls. or sometimes they stop the game. I know that it's not supposed to do that, but they did program in a save if it happens, and it is sort of part of the experience. That's true. That's so true.
    105:07
    Yeah, it just checks all boxes. It's just a great game, and out of all the games we played the most at Expo, Godzilla we played constantly. Yeah, we must have played a half dozen games of it today while we were there ostensibly to pick up my Ghostbusters and to help out with Indiana Jones, But while Brian was doing his thing on Indiana Jones, me and Henry were just plugging in game after game after game of Godzilla. And it doesn't get old. It's just a really, really good game. It doesn't take a long time to get to the fun stuff. And as a competitive experience, it's one of the best. They do need to give that software some love. I know it's only like .8, and it's not fully featured yet. But, you know, we didn't have any crashes or anything today, so that was nice. That's true, yeah. So far I haven't seen many bugs in it at all. I know the main thing was kind of getting overheated. There were some crashes the first night, but there's been an update since then that seems to have addressed the problem. Well, they got a lot for .8. They got a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a big one. I mean, by the time they get the code, you're not going to be able to get to the wizard mode anyway until they, you know, you have that game for a lot longer as you're trying to get to the wizard mode. By the time they get the code developed, yeah. I haven't even figured out the game progression yet. I mean, obviously, I figured out how to get into, you know, the three main multiballs, and I think I figured out a thing or three. But it's like the idea is that you fight all the monsters, and there's like a final fight with the monsters, and then there's a city mechanic. See, that's fine. Yeah. There's still so much to be done in that game that I haven't even, you know, bit my mind to seeing how it works. And, you know, I've been really trying to not watch, and don't get me wrong, I appreciate his work, but I've been really trying hard to not watch Carl D'Angelo play games, although I did watch him play the absolute shit out of his Halloween before he sold it because I just kind of wanted to see how that game would work. But, yeah, I just don't want to have all of the magic taken out of the game before I get a chance to discover some of it, especially if it's something that I have access to. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you don't want to spoil the surprise, right? You want to kind of discover it on your own, and Carl's known to get all the way to the end of the game, and then it's like, oh, man, he just gave away the surprise ending. So he just eats that game's ass like it owes him money. Unbelievable.
    107:41
    Unbelievable. I know, but it's really... It's like watching Spencer play Surf Champ. He just beats it like it owes him money.
    107:51
    Yeah. But anyway, it's a slam dunk. If anyone gets a Godzilla, yeah, you can't go wrong with it. Yeah, and I think it's going to be a big seller because it seems like it's popping up everywhere. I know at least eight people who bought them. You know, it seems like it's showing up on location, so... Oh, yeah, on location it's doing really well. You're definitely going to get a chance to experience some of those shenanigans if you look very hard. Yeah. Yeah, no, like I said earlier, I've noticed that that game is not just in people's homes, but it's showing up on location. I saw a post early today, somebody in Sacramento, hey, we just got, you know, so, you know, they just got a Godzilla Pro on location here. It's like, yeah, it's like the 5th or 6th one in the Sacramento area, which is good, man. That says a lot about the game, you know, Kind of like that Ghostbusters, you know, where that game was just showing up everywhere. Because it's a good game, you know. Curious if Peppermill gets Godzilla Pro. I'm really curious because... They really need to get something new because they haven't gotten anything since Star Wars. Yep, Star Wars is the last one they made, or that they bought. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, I really appreciated it being there, and I also really appreciate that for whatever reason they let that game replay three times in a single game. Yeah, I know. I'll just put that all in my car and walk away with four credits left on the machine. Yep. So true. That's the nice thing about playing pinball on Reno on location, like, as a Peppermill, because they're like, just let the kids win free games. Their parents will stay here. They'll be happy, and they'll spend more money, you know? Right. I've been there for a while, so I don't know, but they should get a Godzilla. My favorite Peppermill pinball story was back when they got that Star Wars, I was playing it, And the games are on carpet, and certain games don't weigh very much. And it had a very, I mean, they might have tightened it up, but it had a very liberal tilt. And I must have done like a six-inch slide set on that. On carpet. You know, I took my warning, and, you know, the little girl who's running the arcade, you know, wanders up to me, and she's just like, you know, we really can't have you doing that. And I was like, no, no, you're missing the point. The game is designed for you to do that. That's why it only gives you a warning. If you do it too much, it takes away your ball. And she goes, oh, okay. It just wears off.
    110:15
    I was like, I mean, technically that's true. You weren't lying. I wasn't lying. I wasn't trying to, you know, kick her game around just for fun. I was just trying to stay alive. That's just how the game works. You know, it would be really nice to see them get a Godzilla because it would help make my work minutes go faster. Because don't get me wrong. I've played a lot of their Star Wars, but I've played a lot of their Kiss. I've got Metallica at home. I don't play my thing very much on location. What else do they have that ACDC?
    110:47
    ACDC is not worth playing because it just drains right down the middle all the time. Yeah. Good lineup, but getting a little dated. Time for some fresh blood. Yep. I agree. There you go. So we've all three, all of us, as we talked earlier, we've all played Heist. so I put a game on it I didn't play it deeply but I will say that that's some cool shit oh my gosh like that is just a genius piece of design and it is by far the thing that I see that makes me go oh you know what P3 does have a future like Lexi was cool cosmic kart racing is neat but But, yeah, Heist is the first thing I played on that, and I'm just like, dude, this is some next-level shiz right here. Yeah. Don't you feel like you're in an adventure, like you're part of the heist? You feel like you're part of the story. That's why I like it. I think a lot of pinball games lately have done that well. Yeah. I was saying Mandalorian is really smart about letting you build up equipment and do jobs, right? And then you'd use those jobs to have better multiballs. and Godzilla is doing some cool things. And what was another one that had a real video game-y progression? Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle. You're fighting the monsters. It's really cool. This game takes all of those games' accomplishments and giving pinball a narrative and just takes it in the balls.
    112:28
    It's like playing Grand Theft Auto on a pinball play field. Yes. And it follows those simple tenets of pinball that Pat Waller always talks about. It's like a game should be easy to learn, easy to play, and hard to beat. You should be able to look at it and go, oh, okay, I know what to do. If I shoot that, I get two of those, and yeah, exactly. Yeah, recruit dudes, start missions, make shots. There you go. I love that. But still be in fun. But still be in fun and in a run. Yeah, because it's like buildings, and, like, there's that garage door thing that I didn't even realize opened, and then it was opened, and then, of course, it's got all the P3 stuff on the play field where you can, you know, run over money to collect money. Yeah, isn't it cool with the money? I love that. That's so much fun. Yeah, it's got, like, side targets, which I think are, like, they're a later enhancement to P3, so there's things to shoot out on the side. But the play field itself, like, it finally has an illusion of being, like, it's like a little cityscape. Right. And you're, like, flying over it, right? Yeah, and then that sweet-ass crane comes out. Oh, my gosh. The crane is so cool. It's just such a neat design. And it's just, if they, if God, if the guys who do P3 could go to Rockstar and take two, and if they could get the Grand Theft Auto license and slap it on there and, you know, bump it up just a little tiny bit, man, they would sell 10,000 of those things. like it would capture the imaginations of people who, who either don't think pinball has anything new to offer or, or, you know, wouldn't give pinball the time of day until they either, they put a theme that people want to see on it. And yeah, it's just, you know, maybe that's a hot take or maybe that's just a wishful thinking, but yeah, I can't not look at that and go, man, this is, you know, I mean, and I know, I know P3 is like 10 years old now or something like that, but it's just like, This is still the future of pinball. I agree. And the crane mech is genius. It's a bash toy. It's a magnet. And it also allows you to not only hit the target to lock the ball, but it also lets you knock a ball off of it. It moves around in the play field that's in the lower part of the play field, so you still have those shots in addition to what's on the screen. It's so cool. And then how you have to finish the character by hitting in the scoop. So you know when you're done with that character to collect them to do the heist. Or they get captured and you have to jailbreak them. Yeah, and then you can continue the game where you left off. I love that. And then the cop car that goes across and the things pop up and you don't want to shoot it in there, you get captured. Genius.
    115:14
    Yeah, it's a work of art. I mean, I don't know who designed it. I know that a lot of people designed it. I don't know if it was – I forgot the P3 guy's name. I don't know if it's the main P3 guy or if it was, like, someone who works with them who did that. But, yeah, you know, they said, you know, I really wish that they would manage to make the – Grand Theft Auto. Get that out there. Well, I mean, it is kind of like Grand Theft Auto. Just to get that out there to where more people can see it. Because, you know, I've been hearing about it. I mean, I think that, you know, I'd seen some content on the Internet about it. It doesn't really hit you how great it is until it's in your face. And you see that crane move, and you see how smooth and fast it is, and how scale the little city looks. And, you know, the sound's really well done. The animation, the music, the experience, the voiceover, it's just a really solid game. It's got decent graphics, too. One of the things I hated about the P3 was it always feels to me like the graphics are like, you know, like a free iPhone game. Yes. And this is one of the first games that I feel like the graphics really kind of brought the heat. Yep.
    116:28
    It's very stylistic, and it's got its own style. But it's done very well, and it's colorful, and it fits with the different characters. is just a fun game, and it's a one more game to play. I played at least 20 in a row when I was over at Jim Martin's place because that is also going into press start. Oh, wow. Yeah, we got a heist at press start, and I kept playing that one over and over. I was thinking, oh, my gosh, I bet Jim is getting sick of this theme music going over and over again. But I couldn't stop playing it because I was like, oh, well, what happens if I get this combination of characters to get this heist? and, oh, what happens if I get all the characters? Do I get out of wizard mode? And then, yeah, it's just one of those one more game appeal. And, man, I wish it was more affordable because I would have a P3, no problem, because the rule set's deep enough and you just feel like you're part of the adventure. Yeah, I really want to, like, grab a stool and sit in front of that game for, like, two hours. Oh, yeah. Just really explore it. There's actually another game. There's several other games for it. You know, they're more like kart racing, Cannon Lagoon. They're simpler games. Because just before I left back in June, like a week or two before I moved out here to Wyoming, I met with Brad. He was waiting on, he had not yet got heist. He was waiting on it. But he's like, but hey, I got this. And he had a baseball, like a pitching bag game. But I had two flippers for the P3. And it was a lot of fun, too, because you guys know what a junkie I am for pitching bats. But I just wanted to bring that up because Other good stuff out there too Not to take anything away from Heist Because Heist is amazing But you know and the games aren't stupid Expensive like you know that was The thing with With the Pinball 2000 It's like okay well you got the game It's like oh we got this other game you can get a kit and just drop it in It's like well it's almost as much as the Whole game at the time Well now you know It's pretty expensive but you know Compared to what Pinball I think that we were pricing it the other day, and it was like a full P3 setup now with Heist and everything. It's going to set you back about $15,000. Oh, it's $15,000? Well, I mean, people pay for limited editions for that. $10,000 gets you into a P3 and their little starter setup, and I don't think you can do Heist, but I think it's like you get Lexi Lightspeed, which is definitely a serviceable game. I remember when it first came out, I was like, oh, this is kind of cool, and I think that you can pick a couple of the modules that go with Lexi. I think maybe you can do Cosmic Kart Racing. And if you're really interested, just go to their website and check it out. But I think that it costs like, what, $2,500, $3,000? For a whole new game.
    119:20
    Yeah, and the new game is the software, and it's the artwork, and the module. And Hypes has a third flipper. so the extra stuff that comes I think that that's part of the new I mean maybe that's part of the module but I think that like the side stuff I think is part of the newer version of the P3 platform it was a little tricky though hitting the upper flipper with a different button that should have been on the right flipper button I didn't even know it was there. And I had a long game.
    120:06
    But, yeah, for the money, and, again, when you look at the capability, you know, you want online head-to-head play, great, it's already here. They have it, you know. You want downloadable content, great, it's here. You know, you want to be able to play new rule sets for the same play fields, okay, we've got it. You know, they've got everything that everybody's always hoping is going to happen in pinball. it's here, it's now, you can have it. It's just going to cost you a little bit of money, and you're going to have to get used to a little different form factor. And in a hobby as rooted in the past, let's say, as pinball, you know, you want innovation, but you want a wooden play field that somehow doesn't dimple and, you know, parts that never wear out.
    120:52
    I think that you do run into a situation where it's like there's a little bit of a, You got to ask for the innovation or you got to be willing to break with the past, boys. And I think that P3 is for the people who are bold enough to lay out a little bit of money and really not that much more money than a regular game now, right?
    121:10
    You're going to get one of the greatest experiences that you will ever have on a play field. And it's built like a tank and it's the heaviest pinball machine that I know of. It is the heaviest sumbitch. I don't know, man. It might not be heavier than a wide-body JJP, but I bet you it's heavy. It's close. It's very close. Yeah. Well, next time you come on over, we'll carry my Pirates of the Caribbean around, and we'll just see what you think. Yeah. I'm proud of that game. I can get a big Twilight Zone and Star Trek The Next Generation and seem like a walk in the park on a sunny day. Yeah.
    121:44
    My friend Henry, he'd really like to borrow my JJ Pirates, and I'm willing to. And he said, hey, you know, we can swap it out for my Tron Limited Edition. And I was like, hey, I'm willing to do that. I'm just kind of waiting for the code. And it's just like, if you could think of two games that I want to move less, those are them. I'm just like, it's too expensive. They're both fiddly as fuck. I mean, his Tron has a lot of mods that were installed on it. And Pirates is just, there's a lot going on there. But the most of it is just, man, Pirates is one heavy son of a bitch.
    122:17
    It's a heavy game. Heavy game. You know? Dan, didn't you help the banisters load theirs down into their basement? So the day that we unboxed Chris's Limited Edition, yeah, I was one of those guys. And there were like four of us. And we slid that thing down the stairs. Yeah, it was Will and you were there, right? Yeah, it was me and Will, and I think you were there. No, I wasn't there. I don't know if you were hands on that and Chris was there. I showed up that night. I was standing at the top holding it, and they were underneath holding it up. And, yeah, that was a big thing. We didn't flat carry it. We put it on a piece of cardboard and just lowered it. I thought Chris had an Escalera. Did he buy that after? He did have – he does have the Escalera, but we just – we slid that thing down the stairs in the box. And I guess the Escalera either won't, it wasn't good for his staircase, or there was something about maybe the JJPs were just too big for it. But, yeah, man, it was definitely, you know, and he was just like, this is going to be easier. And we're like, we got enough guys. We're, you know, we're big strapping young lads. And, you know, again, it didn't seem that bad. It's a lot heavier when it's your game. Like if I was moving your 400-pound game, it wouldn't feel that bad. But as soon as it's my $10,000 on the line, it's like, fuck, this thing is heavy. What the hell, man?
    123:45
    I'm definitely like, you know, there's a part of me that wonders if, like, you know, selling a game or two or a big game to get into a P3 Multimorphic isn't somewhere in the future because I'm extremely impressed with Heist. I just need to see more games like that. And they're coming out with a license, so that might be a game changer. We'll see what happens. I firmly believe it. Let's hope the license is Grand Theft Auto. Yeah. Are you hearing that as rumors? No, I haven't heard anything. I've just heard that they're doing something. Uh-huh. And, you know, it's just, he's a small company. He's a small guy, you know, so let's keep our expectations realistic. You know, there aren't very many big companies these days with these big licenses that are going to go to a small guy and say, hey, we just want to see what you can do. You know, use our IP.
    124:41
    So let's just hope, you know, the guys like Rick and Morty, you know, Cartoon Network and Rick and Morty, you know, they did that. So maybe they got something cool like that.
    124:51
    By the way, Sorcerer is a process I got to play at Expo, and that was fun, too. Oh, no kidding. Oh, that's right. That's the new, like, Scores and Sorcery. Yeah, that was fun. And the other thing is it was using the...
    125:05
    It uses Kostner. But it fit perfectly and it was fun. It's fun to play. And I love the idea that they can do that. I just, for me, and I'm not trying to be like an old school fuddy-duddy, but I kind of see what they're saying. It's like, I want to see the world, right? Like, I want to see the buildings. And, like, when you say to me any sort of swords and sorcery game, you know, I'm like, oh, man, I love games with castles and caves that look like skulls and stuff like that. Dragons. You know? Yeah. Dragons. Yeah, you got it. It's like, throw me a dragon on there, man. Give me the dragon, you know. I'd love to see it. But, yeah, I was watching that on one of the streams, and it looked really, really cool. The graphics looked good. The gameplay looks really, really cool. Just, you know. Now, Heist has a world under glass. It does. But I'm saying, what you do is you do Sorcerer's Apprentice, you make yourself a P3 module that looks like you ripped off the back of a medieval madness. Yeah. That's got a castle and a drawbridge. Yeah. And let's get this motherfucker going on, right? Yeah, that's true. That's true. You know, you want my $3,000? Great. Give me a plastic castle. Yeah. Build something out of Legos. I mean, I don't care. Let's just do it. Yeah. Right.
    126:18
    Right. But yeah, that's a really, really cool world. You know, another game that I think, you know, segue, is really trying for the world under glass is Halloween. And you got to spend some time, right? I got to play Halloween. And I want the code to get better. I'm just going to say that in a nice way.
    126:46
    I did not know what I was doing. Now, the game is gorgeous. I mean, it's got the different levels and the play fields. and the shots are nice and smooth. I do like the hidden surprise when you shoot it into the scoop, and it has the lifter that lifts it up into the in lane, and you don't know where it's coming from. That's cool because it's got that surprise factor, almost like a jump scare kind of thing, you know, like in a horror movie. But the music was a little grating. It kind of just kept going on and on. And then the Halloween theme was good, but like the part where you're like starting a mode when you're getting, when you're preparing to get a mode qualified, it just, I don't know. Maybe I'm just not a fan of Halloween that much, but I just did not know what I was doing. I saw that it had like different levels. Like I said, easy and hard and had like part one to part five. Well, the mission, yeah, the various episodes. I didn't get that. I was confused, like, well, do I pick a hard bow? Do I pick an easy one? I think it was the number of shots that you had to hit to complete the sequence. And I know that, so I haven't played it, so you're ahead of me, but I did watch a couple hours of Mr. D'Angelo just peaking the piss out of it.
    128:12
    And it looked cool, but it definitely looks unfinished. It looks totally unfinished. Like, it was crashing, it was playing modes over and over, and he didn't know what was going on, and, you know, it didn't have an ending, and it just looks like it was not quite ready for prime time.
    128:34
    Yeah, it's work in progress is what it looks like to me. And I thought Spooky was smarter than that. Yeah. Like, I didn't think that they were going to release a game in that condition. Maybe they had to make a date. But I thought that that was something that Charlie just wouldn't do. And I know that this is the first game that's using their new board set, right? This isn't a P-Rock game. This is actually their new pinheck. Oh, that's right. They got their own proprietary system, too. You're right. Well, they had it, and then when they had their falling out, or maybe they just outgrew it. They went from Pinhack to P-Rock. And this is, I think, they're back to Pinhack. And I don't think the problems are with the board. As far as I can tell, the board set seems like it's really well. It's Pinhack 2, I think. Yeah, the new Pinhack. Pinhack 2, okay. Yeah, higher resolution, more memory, more everything. But, yeah, it definitely seems like they just, the software wasn't ready for prime time. And the assets are not playing. not organized enough and not enough of them to get you immersed into the game. That's how I felt. And I didn't know how to start a mode. It really didn't give me direction on what to do on the display. I was just like, it reminded me of Batman 66 when it first came out. Same exact feeling. I felt like I had no idea what I was doing. All of a sudden, I had like a $400 million bonus, not knowing how the heck I got that. And I played that in Banning, and I was like, oh, it's a beautiful game. It's gorgeous, and the assets are great, how they use the different clips from the show. But I had no clue what I was doing, and I was getting bored. And that's exactly how I felt with Halloween. So when they strengthen the code and they get the assets in order, it'll be a great game. But I can't judge it right now as a fun game at this point in time because the code is not there yet. Did you get to see Ultraman? Ultraman was not there. Nope, Ultraman was not at Chicago Expo. Talk about Ultraman. Well, you know, Rob Anthony does tech support for Spooky. And so up in the room within the JJ, they had Rick and Morty, which you get to play more of that. I love that game. I think that's a fantastic game. I looked at getting in line a few times for, they had one of each on the floor in J.J.'s area.
    131:19
    Halloween just down the line for as long as I could. So I was there for not even a whole day. So I wanted to get all the things for my buck. I did get a game on Ultraman.
    131:30
    I actually got two games on Ultraman because I'm playing it, and there have been people playing it, you know, throughout. But, like, I get down on my game, I'm looking around, nobody else is waiting behind me. I'm like, okay, I'll play a second game. So I did. And then a couple of people stepped up, and I let them take the next game. Like you said, man, it shoots great, you know, in the scoop. It makes it pop out different places. Really cool. The little, now with Halloween, the shrubs, the targets to the left, you have Mike Myers pop out. This one, you have different monsters that you will fight alternately. They're buildings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. their buildings and little monsters pop out from behind that you're going to fight. So I remember Ultraman as a little, little kid. So when I heard about it, I was like, oh, and then I saw it. I kind of get this little bit of nostalgia and went, oh, that's really cool. And I had not really thought about Ultraman in decades, you know, because, I mean, this is a show I was watching when I was like, you know, five, six, seven years old.
    132:25
    A little kid. It was cool. What little I could hear. The light show was good. Honestly it was a little too much red white and blue For me I don't know if you can believe that But it was good I mean I can't give it a full you know reveal But I'll say this I'm not looking at Halloween like Mark Says it's beautiful the art on it Looks really good the speaker grill The lights all that Looks really nice and you know They had it on a big screen so you could watch You know watch it being played And it looked really cool If you notice The two games of Spooky's have really done The best Total Nuclear Annihilation Okay, an unlicensed theme But you know Just a good fucking game And then Rick and Morty Because okay, it's not a theme where Charlie went This is my dream horror theme, I'm doing it You know, it's like Charlie and company, great guys Nothing but goodwill, love you guys But, dudes, really, stop making the games for you. Start making them for other people. And that's just – I'm sorry. Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper rocks. You know, I love Alice Cooper, but I have – I've still not played – like, you guys have played it a lot. I've played, like, four games on it, you know? Rick and Morty is wonderfully themed, and they really nailed the sound and the arts there because it was all done by the real people. I don't think it had the same – I don't think Scott Denise, you know, had the time and put the same kind of energy into that play field that he did in the TNA. No, I agree. Because I just don't think it shoots very well. I think – I love it. I think it's fun to play. I think it's hilarious. And I respect the fact that the guys who make Rick and Morty and Cartoon Network, who could have easily, you know, had a stern, wide release, you know, were willing to say, hey, you want to make 750 of a game? Great. Here's our AAA, you know, super topical theme, and we'll work on it with you. Go to town, boys.
    134:37
    But, you know, I think that Ultraman, you know, I'm sure Halloween was a dream theme for Spooky, but honestly, and I know you've listened to their podcast and stuff, you know, their dream theme was Godzilla. They couldn't have it. Ultraman is definitely a next best thing because it's the giant rubber monster and the kaiju and the Japanese, the cheesy Japanese, you know, 1950s, 1960s, 70s, you know, monster fighting. And I think that, you know, it looks great, like just very, very dynamic.
    135:14
    In terms of how it plays, having not flipped it, does it play like anything? because when I see it, I get a real almost like a whitewater vibe where the ball goes in places and you're not really sure where it's going to come out. That's a good comparison, I think, as close as I can get. Yeah, kind of whitewater. You know, getting up to the upper plate goals is fun, you know. And it's not easy to keep it up there either. It's not easy. It's easy to get up there, but not easy. It's easy to get up there, but hard to keep that ball up there and to go up to other levels. Kind of reminds me of a pinball circus, you know. where you have to go to the different levels and get to the top? If I had one on location close by, I could play more. I'd probably dig it more. Probably dig Halloween more. I don't know. I like the Ultraman theme better than the Halloween theme, personally. I wish him continued success, but I want to see another more mainstream theme. Something more mainstream where people go, oh, this is cool.
    136:11
    Rick and Morty, like South Park, like Simpsons. Oh, Rick and Morty. Oh, that's got to be fun. you know. I want to see Spooky really stick to the horror themes. The creepy, the weird, the stuff that only Charlie and Bug and his people are going to really gravitate to. Because I think that, you know, trying to sell a thousand or twelve hundred of a game, you know, they can do stuff like that. You know, they can make the games that, like, nobody else would really touch. You know, they've already kind of proven, although Stern's done it in the past, you know, with the Sopranos and Metallica and stuff like that, you know, they've kind of proven that, you know, they don't mind throwing, you know, four-letter words and, you know, some dicier content into their games like they did on Rob Zombie. And, you know, there's a very specific person, William, who that really appeals to. Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah, no, exactly. You know, and I dig it, too. You know, I love the Rob Zombie game. A lot of people didn't like that game. Yeah, I don't like it. I think it's a terrible, terrible game, but I know people who do, and I understand why. Yeah. Right. The other thing you have to realize about Spooky, and I applaud them, is they do have the call-outs done by the actors. So Alice Cooper is doing the call-outs for Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. Stern is having a voiceover artist mimic the person, but they don't get the actual actors. They got Carl Weathers. Well, okay, all right, they got Carl Weathers. That's true. They got the dude who did The Doctor in Star Trek. God, what's his name? Carl. Oh, yeah, okay. And they do these sometimes. I mean, you know, the sad thing is think back in the day, like when Stern did some really good sound packages like Lord of the Rings. Yeah, Lord of the Rings. Oh, my gosh. They got Elijah Wood to come out and be Frodo. And, you know, when they did Spider-Man, they got J. Jonah Jameson to come out and do some of the best call-out work ever. in a game. True. Absolutely.
    138:14
    I don't disagree, though. What I like about Spooky is that, again, they do a game that's their vision, and I don't think they compromise. I don't think that they try to appeal to the mainstream. I think that Charlie tries to make the games that he thinks are cool in hopes that the people will think that they're cool. And I think that that's their strength. And I will say this. I remember how much everybody complained about the Alice Cooper call-outs because he just didn't, you know, Oh, so flat, no emotion. Those call-outs are fucking hilarious. They totally fit. They're so good. And, like, he says such messed up and hilarious things. Like, Alice Cooper is just the funniest dude. Oh, he's great. He's great in that game. He's just, he's not what you, I mean, I know in real life he's supposed to be just completely the opposite of, you know, what you think he'll be. And that's awesome because it really shows through in his game that, you know, He loves the creepy and the weird stuff, but, I mean, underneath it all, you know, he's just a smart, normal dude who, you know, understands his product better than anybody else. And I think it's the same with Zombie. Like, Rob Zombie is apparently the smartest dude you'll ever meet. Yep. Like, he knows his audience. He knows his market. Listen to the Joe Rogan podcast he did about 30 years ago. It's a great podcast. I don't think anyone on Joe Rogan just sounds dumber. No, Rob sounds really smart And really into the game I'm sure he does That was more of a dig on Joe Rogan than Rob Zombie No, Rogan's cool He has his moments That dude To me is like the Kaneda of the real world Where it's just like He talks a lot about things that he doesn't know much about Right Just saying I mean, no offense to the Joe Rogan lovers out there I think he's an amusing man and he's done a great job. He's made a fortune doing it. It's entertainment, man, like our show, you know?
    140:13
    UFC's cool. Good job, Joe. Yeah, you know, it's... But anyway, no, I wish not. You know, look, I... I don't know. You know, I grew up around science fiction, fantasy, and horror my whole life, so, you know, I dig it, but I'd love it if they'd do a Weird Al game, you know? Oh, I would too. Weird Al? If Spooky made Weird Al Yankovic, I would sell my soul. What would you say? Beetlejuice. I bet you now that Jack Danger's in house, Stern will do it. Yeah, I bet you're right.
    140:49
    Because I know Jack was into it, and Franchi's back with Stern, and I know Franchi would like to do Perth for the artwork. Wait, is Franchi back with Stern? Yeah, they've repaired their bridges. is Francie's learned to keep his mouth shut. He knows he's podcasting a lot less now.
    141:09
    Because he knows if he keeps doing a podcast every week, he'll say something stupid and George will have to find him again. This is internet radio kind of thing, so you guys can't notice. I'm not drinking alcohol tonight, so I'm on my best day. Good job. I'll tell you this about Ultraman, is that if you have that next to Godzilla, you got the pairs made in heaven. If you're a kaiju fan and you want to dance rubber monsters and pinball, 2021 is your year, baby. Oh, my gosh. Having two of those next to each other, oh, perfect. Perfect combination. Even the art, they fit pretty well together. Oh, absolutely. And they're both campy. They both have the funny cause. It's very interesting to see how we all know Stern took the license away from Spooky, but they made it you know they took their ideas and made it into something they're more a fan of which is Ultraman and made it happen but now you have two great games that really can compliment each other in a collection I'd really like to play more of it and I'd really like to play Halloween because I did like the way Ultraman because I know the material pretty well I mean somewhat well and I really like the way it's shot and I had fun playing it It shoots great. It's not a brick fest. I'll tell you that. It's the only spooky game I know out of all of them that's not a brick fest is Halloween or Ultraman. It does shoot well. And I'm sure right around the time that they're finishing their run, the software will be really good. Oh, yeah. Look, I think I'm going to make the software better. That's the thing. Spooky listens to the community. They always listen. They always will. And they care. They care. Chuck really does care about his product and about the people. and I'm sure that when people are complaining about his game, of all the pinball creators in all the world, I bet you he takes it the most seriously. And just when we got to meet when they came out to the Golden State a few years ago, lovely people, really the whole family, just the most down-to-earth, loveliest, nicest people you can meet in pinball, really.
    143:22
    Charlie's a great guy. He's not a young prima donnas at all. No not at all They didn start out as a manufacturer not that there anything wrong with that But I mean they started out as just like us fans Oh hey let do a podcast Right Let's start a pinball company. Oh, holy shit.
    143:38
    So, yeah, it's good, man. It's good. No, I'm fine. I'm just joking about being sober. I got to work in the morning. I got a lot of stuff going on. But, no, it's funny because our next topic when we're done with this, We're going to get to, well, Dan and I have been continually buying games and selling games.
    143:58
    There's something seriously wrong with us. So you want me to start, Dan? Yeah, yeah, okay. So I kind of filled in Mark a little earlier today, but Dan knows this already. Okay, so you all know that I bought my first and maybe only new in-box game, Deadpool, and they raised the price and I stayed in. I got out of Deadpool. And the distributor was real good about getting me my refund. And I feel bad because I feel bad for them because I did buy an Escalera through them and I want to give them my money because they're great people. You mentioned them earlier tonight. Zach and Michelle flipping out. Wonderful people. Zach and Nicole, they're wonderful people. Wonderful people. Yeah, they are. First thing first, good call. Deadpool sucks. I love that game. So is Rusty. Well, here's the thing, man. I was still in. You know, I told him, man, I'm all in. So then the O'Byrus thing kicked in where, okay, so it's like I paid cash in advance for my Deadpool in June. They said, hey, man, we're not going to be until December. Don't care. Want the game. Here's my money.
    145:10
    That's cool. Like, okay, well, it's going to be late to January. We need another $1,000. Crap. All right. You know what? Here, I'm all in. Here's $1,000. I'm in. I want my game. And then I'm thinking, okay, well, maybe January, maybe February. I don't know what the hell is going on. You know, what are you doing over at Stern? And then people have bought the Elvira game, which is a great game. I love playing it, on the premium, and they're still waiting. And then they canceled everybody's order like seven, eight months ago and said, well, you can reorder us $500 more. And people did, and they paid the extra $500. They're still waiting over a year for their game, and then Stern's like, oh, wait a minute, for even more money, you can have the new 40th anniversary edition, but, oh, we don't have parts for the other games yet. That's fucking bullshit. Fuck you, Stern. So I wrote him an email. I didn't cuss. I wasn't rude. Just, hey, guys, I don't think this is cool. What's going on here? I gave you my money. I want my game, too. And I'm getting cut off. That didn't sound rude at all. No, I didn't say it like that because they never responded to my email, So it's patently obvious, Stern Pinball, whoever answers the email over there, that you don't care about me as a customer and you don't want my money. So I got a refund, took that money, and I'm literally sitting on the toilet in my new bathroom. It cost me way more than I wanted it to, but it's really nice. So it's finally done. and I'm looking on pin side for sale threads right because I'm kind of looking at the for sale threads see if there's any dead pools on there close there is one but it's not really close and now because of the price increase people are raising up the prices of their used dead pools and I see over in Colorado a pin bot pops up for $1,200 and I'm like this guy either A doesn't know what the hell he has or B it's a scam so I click on it I'm like I'm in Casper I'm a few hours away. Obviously, he has a basement. I got an escalera. I got cash on the glass. I can move it out. When can I pick it up? So, I don't hear nothing for a couple of days. All right. Somebody got it.
    147:24
    Get an email from the guy or an instant message from the inside. And I think I got an email. Anyway,
    147:33
    he's had some responses. Now, it's best offer. I'm like, all right. Well, I'll go two grand because it looks really nice. Okay, I'll go two grand. That's as high as I'm going to go.
    147:44
    So I get an email back the next day. It's like sold. And I'm like, all right, so you sold the game or you're selling it to me? He goes, no, no, it's you. Come and get it. And so we call. We talk on the phone, the arrangements. This guy's been on the tennis side for like three and a half years, had one thread and one post. The one thread and the single post he had was about the shooter rod on the pin bot. He played it as a kid in the arcade, the pizza place, wherever. Really love the game. Found one. He's an electrical engineer. Cabinet was redone.
    148:15
    The playfield's original, but nearly perfect. I mean, it's a 9.5 out of a 10. It's got a pinball pro subwoofer and speaker kit. Reproduction, actual CPR back glass is beautiful. All the upper playfield, you know, is a reproduction new, I believe. You know, plastics, everything on it is just good. Okay. So I made a mistake, Dan. on the original ramp. I didn't look at the one in the box carefully. He bought an NOS ramp and put in the game. The one that's in the box is the original ramp. Oh, okay. Yeah, I thought when he gave me the ramp, he goes, oh, here's the original ramp. I thought, and I don't know what my head was telling me, but I thought that was the original, like, oh, here's an NOS ramp. No, he put that in the game. Okay. Well, good. That just means that the good one's where you want it to be. Right. But the other one's still in real, because I looked at it really carefully, it's got where the screw's going to hold it down. There's one where it's cracked and one where it's broke. But, I mean, you put a washer there and it'll be fine, right?
    149:22
    Yeah, I mean, it's a spare if, like, something is the best. Honestly, it's just going to sit in a box until you die. Exactly.
    149:31
    Or until you meet someone who has a really, you know, a super player pinball with a really crappy ramp and you're just like, bro, bro. Right. So. You having a good day? Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. So, yeah, somebody really is desperately needs it now, you know, maybe pass it on, whatever. So, because mine's not going to get that beat up, hopefully, in a home environment. So, but anyway, so it's got all this great stuff. The sound's great. It plays great. All the boards, except for one, are all Rotten Dog reproduction boards. You know, aftermarket boards. I mean, there's a lot of time and effort went into this pinball. And it's beautiful. It plays perfect. So I got it for $2,000. The guy was really cool. He's downsizing to a smaller house, but I now have room for it. And, like, he gave me boxes of spare parts, you know, like, you know, everything you can think of, right? Just here are more parts, more parts, more parts. That's a real come up these days. $2,000 for a new pinball. Wow. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. thing. That's a really good price for a nice pin bot and parts. Yeah.
    150:39
    So, really sweet. You know, cash on the glass. Here you go. Got out with the Escalera. Took Mickey with me. That was a fun road trip. He was happy because there's no 7-Elevens. We had a 7-Eleven at every house we lived at. You know, or the two, the Sacramento and the one where, you know, Mickey was born. It's a California fixture. Like, you gotta have your 7-Eleven near that house. We're in Colorado. He's like, please, Dad, we gotta stop at 7-Eleven. So I'm like, we'll get a slurpee. It'll be good. A slurpee and a big bite. That. Right.
    151:08
    He's like, he smells like 7-Eleven. It was cute. He was a good housewife. I can hear him saying that. Oh, man, I miss Mickey so much. Next time I see him, he's probably going to be like 24 years old and be like, here, what up, Dan? I'm like, what the fuck? You know, I'm really proud of him.
    151:25
    He's been losing weight. He's down a shirt size already. He's been taking the dog for walks every day. So there was no 7-Eleven, right? There was no 7-Eleven. Yeah, so, yeah, exactly. So now he's doing really good, and he's growing, too. And then Seth, Seth's like 5'10 now, so, yeah, it's crazy. So long and short, I was really mad at Stern for a long time. I had to get that out. I'm not really mad anymore. I get it. You know, prices rise, blah, blah, blah. It was just like, you know what, man?
    151:53
    I'm just going to go back and get my old cheat games where I can get them, like the pinball. Now, that can count, like, you know, off the top of my head in the last decade. I've gotten five or six really primo deals by just sitting back, being patient, and being up front with people like cash on the glass. I've got the card. I can wheel it out. You don't have to help me, blah, blah, blah. Let's do this. And just being honest with people, you know, and like they're like, okay. And I've gotten a lot of good deals like that, man. I can tell you, I mean, I can rattle them off pretty quick for you. but just being up front, being a straight shooter not being a jerk. Well I keep saying if you want to spend ridiculous money on a game buddy I'll sell you something and that's it I really don't so the overflow that I had to put on credit cards to pay for the work, the bathroom and all that I just paid that off with the money I was going to use for Deadpool and still got the 10 bucks so. Well there you go and I saw the pictures and it's gorgeous for the price you got Yeah, that's really nice condition, and usually pinbots are always shot. Yeah. My last one I had was a heavily routed beater, but it played great, for $900, and that was over 10, 11 years ago. And the local route op literally went to the bar it was in, pulled it out of the bar, and brought it to my house. Okay, so, you know, that's smoke-filled and everything. So, no, this one's super, yes, this is an original playbook, and it's almost, I mean, it's super, super nice. And it just plays.
    153:29
    Phenomenal. So I'll wrap that up and let Dan take over. So I have my Halloween thing. Our trail master, our trail actor, we also go to the same church. And you're like, you say the F word more than anybody I've ever heard of. Anyway.
    153:45
    Maybe eight years, man. I blame you. I blame me. All you got to do is bring me around. I'll get you off ground zero. There you go. I'll be like, you want to hear some F-bombs, buddy? Have you come to the right place?
    153:59
    So I got that out. I don't have a beef with Stone, just so we're clear. They're good guys. They've kept it alive forever. I just didn't, you know, I got upset about that, and a lot of people did. But you know what, man? I'm over it, and I wish them continued success. But I'm going to go back to just buying my cheap used games. Anyway, so I had the trail master over him, and his wife, we'd become friends, and their son is real good friends with my boys and really nice family. The husband, John, had played pinball in his youth. It's really funny. His brother had happened to call him, and he goes, man, I'm playing pinball at a friend's house. I'm like, take a picture and send it to him. So he did. He's like, dude, that's so cool. I'm like, if your brother comes to visit, man, have him over. So then his wife, Darcy, she's a sweet lady. She had never played a pinball machine in her life. She grew up very sheltered in a very small farm town in northeastern Pennsylvania.
    154:55
    And she just never played pinball. They're really, you know, they're geeky. They love Lord of the Rings. You know, we're talking about the Lord of the Rings pinball machine. They were just like their eyes were glazing over, you know. I'm like, yeah, I don't have it anymore. Sold that one. But I know somebody in town who has one that I've met. And hopefully we can all get together soon But it was really cool because it was reintroducing Someone to an old friend who hadn't played Pinball since high school And we're the same age And then introducing somebody In their late 40s Who never played a pinball And like she's like now Flash Gordon is the coolest game She likes all the games but Flash Gordon That's her jam she's like this is the coolest game ever You know so I think once we get our Lord of the Rings that's going to be pretty much it, man. That'll be, you know, it'll be like, I don't care, man. I'm selling plasma. I'm buying one of these. But that was a lot of fun, you know. That's awesome. Yeah, so just, you know, spending the Saturday evening just the night before Halloween down in the game room and eating a lot of good junk food and having people over playing pinball and just, you know, seeing it through their eyes of somebody who had not played in, you know, 35 years or more You know Wow you don't remember this From you know talking about the bowling alley And the skating rink in their little town Yeah man that's you know That's America and then somebody Discovering it for the first time It was really awesome It was really great to be able to share that With people And that's what it's about man That's why you have games Yeah exactly And I'll tell you what man every time I hear you say down in the game room. I'm so jealous. I know that the pin basement is supreme. Don't get me wrong, I love the pin garage, I love the open air pinball when the weather's nice, but man, having a basement would be so sweet. It's where games belong, man. Oh, yeah.
    157:01
    I added a little refrigerator just yesterday, because they were on sale at Wally World. Like, really cheap, like literally $100. And so it's full of sodas and water and beer and like that right now. So, you know, when you come out, God willing, man, we got the bar, we got cold drinks, we got the poker table. Mark, I'll send you a video. I'll send it to Dan, a video of the video. I'm going to pick Mark up when I'm on the way. There you go. Perfect. He's going to be like, I can't go to Wyoming for three, four days. I'm like, oh, nonsense. Heidi know I'll keep you safe She's like She's met you once I'm like I'm trustworthy So I made some pin moves I had a departure I sold my shadow Which hurt I had to let it go There's only so much room and only so much money It went to a good pin bro. It went to Mike H, Mike Hozier, and he'll take it. Oh, Mike has it. Okay, good. Has agreed that, you know, yeah, it'll be there for Black Friday to kick our asses. Actually, everyone's just going to hate me for selling that to Folsom League because God knows that game is just pure evil. Oh, man. But that's where it started. When I first played that Shadow, it was at Mike's house, and then it went to Adam's house, and it came to my house, and now it's back at Mike's. And I picked up an Indianapolis 500. Oh, man. Route game off of a guy that Spencer actually knew about out in Chico.
    158:44
    And me and Jeff Claybaugh had a little pin venture and went and picked it up. You know, a couple hours, nothing too major. Game was extremely dirty, but everything is there. And it's going to clean up really, really incredibly nice. actually plays 100%, just very, very tired, which is amazing considering how bad it looked. It did have a burnt-out HV section, so a little board work there. I slapped the color D&D in it. You know, that'll fix that problem, no problems. And I've probably put about, you know, $500 in parts orders in, so it's going to be extremely nice. It's getting a new ramp set. It's getting all new flippers all around. We're going to fix the broken targets. And besides that, you know, it's going to come around. Somebody, actually, Brian was telling me today that apparently it's a rare cab variant. I guess that those games came with, like, an orange cab, which was the common one. But I guess that maybe the first hundred had a red cab. And this one has a red cab that doesn't appear to have been retouched up or anything. So I was like, sweet. I didn't even realize because I hadn't even played that game. I just bought it because it was a good price on a rarely seen game.
    160:01
    That's awesome. Indie 500 is a sleeper hit. It's fine. It's a fantastic game. Come on, man. The thing I got for being heavily routed is, other than being dirty and needing some, you know, tune-up work, it's in really, really nice shape. So I turned it over to Brian today, who's going to work his magic on it. As much as I kind of want to do the shop job myself, I know that when it comes down to doing a shop job, I'm probably about a 6 and Brian's probably a 10. So he's going to really take this thing where it needs to go. And it'll be really, really nice. And I think I'll keep it around for a while. I love car games. And I really want to have games by different designers. And Shadow, I had three games by Brian Eddy because I also have a Mandalorian and a Medieval Madness. and I never keep Dennis Nordman games for very long. The longest I've ever had a Dennis Nordman game was I was borrowing a scared stiff for a year and I had my Demolition Man for a very short amount of time. So I'm hoping that this game makes the grade and I'll keep it around for a while. If not, I'll be into it cheap enough that I can certainly get a good trade or a good sale out of it, but hopefully it'll stay for a while. I like the whole idea of the sports game and the Indy racing, I think it'll go really nicely with World Cup soccer. I was just going to say that. It's the same announcer too, isn't it? So I don't think it is. I think Kitsrow does all the voices in World Cup soccer, and I think that with Indy, I think they actually got the guys who really did the announcing for the Indy games. Oh, that's cool. And they did a good job. Like, it's got some pretty funny call-outs, like when you miss a shot with the upper flipper, they comment that you probably don't even know the flipper's there. it's got like a move your car call out which I like so I think that it's pretty cute and you know it's got some really cool diverters that turbo spinner ball launch thing is super unique and I was really surprised to find out how that actually worked because I you know I'd always just assume there was probably a kicker up there but it really does like whiff that ball around with some critical force and just launch it Oh, that is cool, the turbo. Yeah, right? Yeah, and I really think that one of the cool things about a game, especially like your Dennis Stordman games, is that, you know, they always have really wild ramps.
    162:32
    And with this game, like, the ramps were really dirty, and they were kind of cracked. There was some damage, but they were perfectly serviceable. And then it turned out that there's a guy called Ramp-O-Matic on Pinside who does ramps for really, like, odd one-off games. And it turns out that he does a set for Indy 500. And then you can still get the labels for the ramps from Australia. And I was like, oh, I'll have to sleep on this. And so naturally, within the half hour, I'd ordered them. And so they're going to be on the way. So, yeah, we're going to take this thing pretty far. You know, we're going to get it pretty close to as good as it can be. It has a couple chips that we probably won't worry about too much.
    163:16
    And, you know, like I said, it'll be a nice player. It won't be a resto project, but it'll be good. Congratulations, Dan. That's awesome. I'm excited to see an Indy 500 in a private collection. I always see it at shows, but I never know anybody who owns one, so that's exciting.
    163:35
    Well, there were like 2,500, so, yeah, there aren't a lot of them out there. and yeah, so thank you. I'm really hoping that I have a wonderful ownership experience with it. So far, like I said, I've put probably a dozen games on it just playing it in its routed state and I got the Super Jackpot, which was a really, really cool sequence of shots. So I'm sure that once it's all polished and fast and evil, I'll hate it and I'll want to sell it.
    164:05
    And then speaking of hating it and wanting to sell it, I actually bought my Ghostbusters back. Oh, wow. Well, with the new code, with the code that is enhanced as far as making it easier, changes the game completely. You know, I didn't get rid of Ghostbusters because I didn't like it. The truth was I liked it a lot. But at the time, I knew somebody who wanted to buy it, and I had a line on another game that was, you know, a Grail game, and I owned it for a while, and then I turned it into another Grail game. but it had never really gotten out of my mind that it was just like, you know, I miss, you know, I sell, I buy and sell games, you know, probably a regular amount of time I'll say. And it was one of the ones that I sold and I was just like, oh, I really wish I figured out how to hold on to Ghostbusters because it turned out that I, I miss having it here and my wife missed it. And, you know, it's a really super timeless theme, I think, for, you know, the 40-year-old guys, and, you know, the art was really, really good, and just, you know, the gameplay itself. The gameplay is interesting, whether you love it or you hate it. It had its own style. And so when our friend bought his Godzilla Limited Edition, he, you know, he had to sell something. And apparently Henry had never sold a game today, until today.
    165:26
    And I bought that by Ghostbusters. And I just said, don't even, you know, think of it as like a money loan, because eventually I'll need to buy something else, and I'll just be like, well, Henry, you want to buy your Ghostbusters back? And so Ghostbusters is back in the family. In fact, as soon as we finish up here, I'm going to probably go out and put a half a dozen games on it to get reacquainted with it.
    165:51
    Yeah, those are my tales of my new acquisitions, probably the last ones for a little while. Yeah, you always say that. It's a week and a half now. I can't kind of talk right now. I'm picking up three new games. Exactly. I'm buying the games. Shut up. You bastard. I can't bring anything to your house to store anymore because you're four states away.
    166:12
    Yeah, well, Henry, you notice he's got that whole second garage that we never go into, but it's full of games. It is? He's got about a dozen games out there. None of them are up and running. They're all soldiered up. and he's got like 21 or 22 in his home game room and in his house, which is just amazing to get through. He's got a whirlwind. Yeah, it really is. It's just too tight. But he's got like a whirlwind and a fire and, you know, he's got some EMs and stuff like that. He's got like a Roy Clark that'll never work again. So, I mean, we were talking about it. You know, we had actually all rolled down to Jason's second Saturday thing, me and Rick and Henry, and we were talking about the collections and who's the craziest. That's by far Henry. I'm still going to go with Brad, but okay. Well, I mean, in Elk Grove, Brad is definitely the craziest overall, by far. That's just because, you know, I don't know. Have you ever been to Brad Grant's house, Mark? No, I know he wanted me to come over one time and I couldn't make it, but I would love to see his collection. He owns literally everything cool. every wall of his house has awesome stuff on it you know he's just he's got neat things everywhere that you look just tchotchkes and pieces of history and arcade stuff and pop culture and he's got this collection of jukeboxes like when i first met him he was into pinball but i knew him because of his jukebox collection he's got like probably a dozen of just the most gorgeously restored jukeboxes all full of period-appropriate music. It's just unbelievable.
    167:54
    And, yeah, so we were just talking about, like, who the craziest was, and, you know, by far it was Henry because he has, like, 30 games. So that makes him twice as crazy as me. But Rick is catching up. Rick's got a pretty healthy collection. So, you know, we're definitely doing okay by ourselves in terms of our pinball selection. But I think that Ghostbusters is a game that I'll have a hard time getting rid of again. I think that I've decided that it's going to stay around. And it goes real well with, like, you know, you have that list of just themes that you like the most, right? I've got my Star Trek. I've got my Star Wars. I've got my Ghostbusters. You know, if I can put Back to the Future into that lineup, you know, that'll be amazing. I got, you know, Guns N' Roses and, you know, just there's a lot of the stuff in here that's just like it's, you know, just love letters to the things that, you know, I've always really wanted to have the coolest thing for. So Ghostbusters is back. That's awesome.
    168:56
    Yeah, of course, since Henry had it, now it's covered with mods. It's got a color DMD in it, you know, shaker motor, all the accoutrements.
    169:06
    Awesome. That dude loves the mod of games. I know another friend that loves the mod of his games, and wow.
    169:15
    Yeah, it's pretty awesome when you have a friend that has an amazing collection and you can go over there any time that they invite you. It's such a blessing. It's so cool. Are you talking about Mike? Mike and Jason, and there's Ryan down the street who lives for me. I got to play as Miles Cooper. Yeah, it's fantastic.
    169:40
    I've never known Mike to be too big on mods, but he likes very specific mods. Yeah, Jason mods everything. He blings out every game, and they look amazing. He's got the topper that has the smoke for the Indiana Jones. Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, so Jason was the guy who bought your Game of Thrones, right? He bought it and he sold it. I saw his ad. His ad was $6,500 for the best top-run pinball and will include a Game of Thrones pro with it. And I was just like, oh, that's hilarious.
    170:23
    And then all I said was, that's not a Black Knight. he did get a black knight sword of rage though so I do need to get one I have a black knight sword of rage topper when they came out right because I was just like I know these will be hard to find down the road and someday I'll have a black knight sword of rage that I'll want to put this topper on so I picked one up when they were $500 and now they're like you know just ridiculous amounts of money. And the problem is, is that, you know, you can still find a Sword of Rage, but the game has had kind of a comeback. You know, I think people are catching on to how cool it is because I was being offered like limiteds for like $7,000. And man, I'm kicking myself in the ass now for passing on them. But you know, I had to have that Pirates or I had to have that Guns and Roses. I guess you can't blame me, but now I'm just like, oh, I wish I'd grabbed that game. I just wish I'd robbed the money from savings or something, you know, cashed in some stocks or sold some Nintendo games or something, anything to have gotten that game at the time. Because now I know when I end up finding one, I'm going to pay like nine grand for it. Oh, yeah, probably.
    171:38
    You know, but I think that that's a game that I think that it's really good, and I think that people are going to think that it's really good, and I just think that at the time, everybody had a little bit different idea of like either what it was or what it was supposed to be and in a world where people are complaining oh games need to have features game needs to have mechs it's just like that night is one of the coolest game features ever made you know it's just a direct adversary with a shield that knocks the ball back and the mace that knocks the ball back and the sweet you know animated background and the the upper lock and everything like i think that's just a super heavy-duty game. So, you know, people in the future will recognize that game's greatness.
    172:23
    Hopefully by then all on one. There you go. Right. And that's about it for my pinball adventures. I'm pinballed out. I had a big pinball weekend. We had a big pinball last month. League finals went real, real well. Everybody, I think, had a good time. and, you know, we're going to be going into a hopefully, you know, wonderful holiday season with, you know, some good pinball juju. I'm looking forward to Mike's Black Friday, if I can make it with the weather. Hopefully the weather is nice because I want to go to that. Yeah, hopefully the weather cooperates because that's – have you been before, Mark?
    173:03
    Have I been to Mike's? Yeah, when his Black Friday. He's been to Black Friday. I don't remember. I know I came to the pin golf tournament, and I came to the critical hit, which was two, three months. I have not come to Black Friday, though. Black Friday is the best. I'm sorry. I'm going to miss it this year because I didn't have it last year.
    173:25
    Well, I'm hoping to be in Reno next week for work, and, you know, we'll see how the travel conditions are. I mean, it seems like the season's been pretty mild so far. Yeah, so far. So, you know, let's hope that it doesn't decide to get wild in the next week or so, and then maybe if that works out, then the week after that, everything will be fine. I hope so. I just got to get those Christmas lights up.
    173:54
    Yeah, you got to put up those Christmas lights, man. You got to keep the boss happy so that she'll let you come out and play pinball with me some more. Exactly. So I want to add real quick, Brian, who's not on tonight, but I posted he's in the middle of shopping his whitewater, which he's had for years. He just needed to be shopped again. And there's a little quick video of some mod work he did on all the stand-up targets where he put colored lights to match the color of the targets behind the targets. So you can go watch the video on our Facebook page. You know, he locked the insert, the adjoining insert, he locked them into the target. So they move in the sequence, and when you hit the targets, they light up. So he did it for the Bigfoot hot foot section. He did it for the river targets and somewhere else, too. It looks great, and apparently he's got those targets. He's done them for Attack from Mars for the Martian targets, and he's working on a way to do it for the under the UFO section, and apparently he's going to do the same treatment on Indy 500.
    175:11
    That's really awesome. So if anyone's interested in doing this, it's not an invention of his. He got it, and he was telling me about this, so I'm not, like, going under the bus or anything. He got it from a thing that Vid posted on Pinside. So if anybody wants to see how these are done, I'm sure he directs you that way. But, yeah, check those out. And it's a little, you know, it's a little tricky and a little time intensive. You know, it takes a steady hand and some patience. But I wasn't that into it until I saw all these things working on Whitewater, and I was like, oh, that looks really, really cool.
    175:51
    In person, it looks even better than the video. Yeah. Yeah, they do. They do. He needs to package and sell that Doctor Who mod he created, though, because that's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That is very cool. Nice.
    176:09
    Yeah, we wish Brian could have been here. There's some technical limitations. We're working through them. We're working through it. He'll be back with us. We didn't replace him with Mark, even though that would be a good trade.
    176:20
    Really, really good trade. Mark's probably worth me and Brian twice, but, hey, it's free. You love us. That's right. I'm having a great time being a part of this show Right on We're glad to have you We'll be glad to get Brian back on the show again It's good I like the fact that you talk over me way less than Spencer does I've been really good about that lately Not too bad Only once tonight You've been really good, Spencer In fact, a couple of times I thought you dropped off by accident You guys were over there You know what? I'm more awake We did the last episode I was so exhausted. The time change and then the high altitude and just, I mean, I love it here. My wife just, like, is just ecstatic here.
    177:10
    I've got a lot going on for it, a lot going on with the family. Good stuff, all good stuff. Also, it's just, it's like, you know, there's no community here for pinball right now. It's not so little, you know, stuff. But you know what, man? You know, I'm going to change that Or I'm going to work on changing it So, you know But no, anyway, I'm more awake tonight Like I said, we talked earlier, I got a little bit of a nap Because way past my bedtime Well, you know, the truth is A good host just keeps his guests talking And with me and Mark on the show, Spencer You don't have a lot of work to do Because both of us just love to talk Yeah, we spend a lot So, you know But no, no, it's turning out really good Good balance. If you go on the Facebook page, it's like, you know, just, I don't know. I'm not an internet guy, really. I mean, just go on the Facebook and type in The Spinner is Lit. You'll find it. Nobody would believe that you like to talk, especially after that cheese cheese story, dude. I know. I know, right?
    178:13
    I'm alone in a car driving through the desert listening to Horse With No Name, okay? I was running out of ideas, and it just popped into my head and went, wait a minute. He said cheese twice. I wonder if he even knows this.
    178:29
    You know, I was calling you. How long have we talked, Dan? I was calling everybody I knew, like, just talk to me. Even my wife's like, I love you. I'm going to sleep. You pull over when you get tired, you know. You know, Spencer, when you and I saw each other four times a week, you could still call and keep me on the phone for an hour, and nobody does that. I know. I know, man. I know. Spencer is a, he has got the gift of gab more than anyone I've ever seen. And he engages you. Like, he keeps you talking. It's like that scene in Ricky Bobby where Cal keeps Ricky talking even though he hates him. And Ricky's like, what is this, like some sort of trick? That's like Spencer. Like, that dude just can keep you talking. You know, before I let you go. And it's like, ah, here we go. There's more minutes.
    179:14
    Just because we love you, brother. I love you, too. That's why you created Spinner is what. It really is, man. It's just a beautiful... And like you said, the greatest compliment I get from people... It's great because I feel like I'm there with you guys, just sitting around the table, sitting in your basement, we're drinking sodas, we're eating pizza, and we're just talking Timbal and having a good time. And that's all I ever wanted the show to be, is just an extension of all us dudes hanging out, you know, like when we had... We went to dinner, and we got to cut this off, so we're almost at three hours. We hit a three-hour mark. I know, right? I know. We hit a three-hour mark. If you're driving through the desert of Nevada or Utah, you've got something to do, man. There you go. Because I listen to everybody else's podcasts on that trip because I listen to them anyway. But, yeah, we went to dinner. It was me and Brad and Dan and Greg Ong and Brian. And the Filos had not gotten together all together in a while. So we went to Thud Ruckers, which I'd never been to, in Fairfield, California. And we had, you know, the burgers were good. We had great camaraderie. We went back to Brad's, played some pinball.
    180:40
    You know, all in our separate ways. I crashed on Brian's couch. Thank you again, Brian, for always being there to let me crash on your couch.
    180:47
    And I was out the door Sunday morning at 4.30 a.m., man, on the road. So I got about four hours sleep and then hammered 17 straight hours to get back home to Casper. So, but no, man, it's, pinball's a vehicle, man. It's the camaraderie. It's the brotherhood. That's, you know, just getting together with like-minded folks and just hanging out and sharing a story in a cold pop or a meal. That's what pinball is all about Words Word And that's why you know we're going to wrap it up And I'm going to leave you know We'll roll right into shout outs And thank yous Big thank you to JJ Game Exchange For his hospitality his hotel room Also Rob Anthony Huge hospitality man just seeing It's so good to get a hug and see a friendly face At a pinball show being the new guy that needs to show in a new town. And to the Mezzles, wonderful people.
    181:53
    To all the gang who put on the Mile High show, man, thank you for doing that. To all the people who put on the shows. To hopefully my new pinball friends in my neighborhood, which I got to reach out to them now that Halloween's over and get them over here.
    182:09
    And that would be Matt and his lovely wife. I'm hoping I get this right, Jess. that we talked about briefly on Pennside and that they show.
    182:21
    And, you know, to all the people out there that say, oh, man, I can't afford the new games, games get expensive. You know what? You're a pinhead, you know, if you love pinball. Even if you don't own any games and you play on your pad and go play on location or at a show when you can. If you love pinball, that's all you got to do. If you can afford an old game, an EM, an early solid state, get a couple halves on with them. You know, if you have the money to buy the new games, the LEs, awesome. If you don't, do what you can, man. Just, you know, participate when and how you can and be part of a wonderful Hobney and a wonderful community. And don't let the shiny new, you know, get you all budged up. I kind of did for a minute and I just went, you know what, man? I'm going to back it up and go get another 30-plus-year-old game and have a blast with it. Which, by the way, guess who has a high score on Fimbot right now? It's not me or Rusty. Mickey. He's got over $6 million on that thing right now. You were telling me that Mickey is a wreck of that game. He is a wreck of that game, man. He is just dominating pinball right now, and I haven't even come close. Like, I've got, like, just less than half of what he's got on there.
    183:30
    But just keep playing, man. No matter where you are in the world, there's so much craziness going on in the world. Just, you know what, man? Link up with a family member or a friend And whether you play on location Or on an iPad Or a Nintendo Wii Or playing like the pinball arcade Or whatever You know, or you have a game or two in your house Or a 50 or a local pool hall Or whatever, just play pinball And hang out and have that fun And have that Comradery and that friendship Pinball's a means to an end You know It is. Getting people to play, getting people to have fun, getting people to love something that you love, hopefully. Yeah, man. And just taking you back from into a simpler time in your life, you know, when you were younger and, you know, had hair. And some of you, I know you commented on it, Dan. You saw the Facebook post of MeHunt Veterans Day 100 years ago.
    184:27
    Yeah, that was amazing, by the way. Oh, thanks. Yeah, I was 21, 22 there. Yeah, and thanks for your service, by the way. Absolutely, Jim. Thank you. My pleasure.
    184:42
    Shout out to – My two dollars at work. And I want to give a shout out to you both for letting me be on the show two months in a row. I hope we can continue this. Maybe we can figure out Zencaster to have more than just three people, but it worked really well. But we're not up to ten. I just don't know how long it will take you to do the editing. so that's okay hopefully when we close it out this time it shouldn't be that same thing where we all have separate files. It's not going to be bad there's only just two separate files the one where we accidentally terminated it and then we started up again but that's only two files so that's not going to be a big deal at all but no, shout out to you, shout out to my wife Heidi for letting me do this and let me talk about pinball all the time and shout out to Jim, Shelby and Shannon for making the trip out from Sacramento to have a great time at Pinball Expo with me. We had a really great time to play pinball and hang out and shoot the breeze. It was really fun. So shout out to them. And shout out to Jason for always inviting me, along with everybody else in Reno, to play his collection. I got a big shout out to all the guys who put on the CCPL. We just finished our first session in quite a while. Also, Mike, David, Stephen and Adam, Henry, Jack, you know, everyone who's hosting, Shannon, you know, who hosted a couple times. Just absolutely fantastic. And, I mean, it's already a humongous hole in my life with League being over. We've had a couple get-togethers. Jack actually had everyone over to his place on last Friday just to come play his collection for a while. Mike Garcia had everybody over. You know, I'm going to have everybody over, I'm sure. You know, the whole CCPL family, I mean, they're who keep me playing pinball. You know, big thanks, of course, to Spencer for giving us a reason to kick it and do this. Big thanks to Mark for being a part of this operation. It'll be great to have Brian back next week. He was like, I'm like, hey, so you ready to talk on the show tonight? He's like, there's a show tonight?
    186:47
    Oh, sorry about that. We just got to get his technology in line. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, like you guys said, to all the people who put on shows this year, we know it was a terrible environment to put on a show. And, you know, to everybody who's keeping the pinball hobby in it for the right reasons, again, for fun, for camaraderie, for the love of the games. It's not all about money. You know, don't let the money ruin it for you. If you don't have a lot of money, you know, you have friends who have games that are going to let you play them, whether they have a lot of money or not. You know, don't covet, appreciate, I think is what it comes down to. I know that's easy to say when you feel like you have a lot or if, you know, you look at someone who has a lot and you don't feel like you do. You know what, man? The deal will find you. Just keep your eyes open, you know, keep a bright eye. And, you know, you never know when someone's going to say, hey, look, I got a game. I need it out of my life. I need a little room. I need a little extra money, you know. How about I give it to you for this? And that's a game finding you. You know, that's where that game's meant to be. If you try to force something to happen, you know, that game will have bad juju and probably won't make you as happy as it could have. You'll always worry about what you spent on it or what you went through to get it. You know, if you have a fun experience buying a game, you know, it means that your time with that game is going to be happy. You know, of course, unless it's your average pinball machine and it spends all its fucking time broken.
    188:15
    But to everybody, you know, just be in pinball for the right reasons. And that's just, to me, I know our activity here is just going less and less away from the love of the game and more and more towards money and speculation. And, you know, I have to make money on this deal and the whole works. And it's just like, look, if you can't afford to buy a game, you know, it's cheaper to play a game on location anyway or make a friend who has games. If you can't afford to buy a game, it doesn't cost you shit to share them with your friends. If you're worried about what that game costs and what you're going to resell it for, you're not playing it hard enough, you know. So I'll tell someone who'll appreciate it and get the fuck out of my hobby.
    188:54
    So, you know, there you go. Well said, Dan. Sincerely, you know, and that's the whole meat and potatoes of it, man, is you think back to the old-timers when I was the new kid in the, you know, club.
    189:10
    You were always the old-timer to me, sir. I know. You know, like Steve Sharlin and, you know, that whole – those whole – you know, all-time – you know, Brad, you know, and Greg. And what you and Brian both now have been in the game a long time.
    189:28
    You remember when Brad was the new guy. Let's put it this way. Right? Wow. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about, man. But, I mean, always everybody's like, hey, just come over and play. We know – like Michael Hozier. I'm having to get together. Come on over. Okay. Never met the dude. Never talked to him online before. Just, oh, you moved into the area? Come on over and play. That's awesome. Yeah. And all the people have always been like that. So just good, good people.
    189:57
    So, yeah, man, I think that's it. Let's wrap it up. So there's pictures of Tim Vought on the Facebook page. There's a video of the basement now. So if you want to check that out, there's a great video. of Brian's work on his Whitewater in Progress, and hopefully we'll have more going on. And if you watch the video of my four-game lineup, I'm in like 3,100 on all four of those games. And, you know, one I bought recently, the others I've had for a while. But you can have a good funnel collection for not breaking the bank. Anyway, you guys know the address where the spinner is lit at gmail.com, We're hosted on SoundCloud You can catch us on iTunes I think there's a couple of hosting sites I gotta update that stuff So y'all remember what to say and how to say it Play pinball Keep America strong
    191:09
    © transcript Emily Beynon