live from Zach Angeli Brewing Company lunch party coming near Welcome, everyone, to Season 3, Episode 9. We've got to be getting near the end of this season. Of the Fresh Pinball Podcast. Have we ever had a season that was nine episodes long? We don't talk about that. I don't know, man. Nobody knows how many episodes we've done. The number one rule of the Fresh Pinball Podcast is you don't talk about the Fresh Pinball Podcast. Unless you're doing the Fresh Pinball Podcast. Right, then you can talk about it. Okay, fair enough. to my right on the board we have kyle kyle how we doing buddy i'm flipping fantastic yes and to kyle's right across the table from him we have zach angeli holding some fresh off the 3d printer 3d printed flipper bat keychains yeah they're pretty cool How's the 3D printing lifestyle going for you? It's fun. It's dangerous. It seems like it would be dangerous. Once you start, you can't stop. Once you pop, you can't stop. It's like them Pringles. Pringles all over again. Also, you know, up to 18 pinballs now, you know? Homework, though. Fresh pinball today. What? 18 pinballs here? Yeah. So finally, after many, many weeks of all of our customers getting their X-Men OEs and all kinds of day pros x-men setting them up yeah premiums today finally we unboxed corbin's x-men premium and corbin yeah no i mean it's good it's real good it's good as we were on we were unboxing one earlier i like was looking at it and i'm like man i really haven't even got a chance to take this in and look at it yet but it's fun game it's fast we have it actually we're lucky we have it set up next to uh foo fighters right now so uh as it's meant to be Would you call that a double danger situation? It is. Yeah, double danger. Most enjoyable. Just they both fun games. So, yeah. All right. Let's kick this episode off then with a quick fact check because we're actually not far from our last recording. So not a ton of feedback on the last one yet. We're pretty factual with what we said. Yeah. One of the questions that was asked, what were some of the flyers that we brought back from Pinball Expo? So you mentioned on the last one that you were trying to get those back from either Phil or Keith. Keith has them. He said he has them. You've not obtained them again? No, I haven't gotten them yet. Keith's slippery. We just saw them the other night, too. He's at SEMA. We did, but he was on his way back from the lake, and he stopped at tanks. And so, you know, we're going to have to, I think, go over there to get them. Well, I know Safecracker was in there. I know they're safe with them. Those are Corvettes. Fast break. Definitely Safecracker, because remember, it was thick, and it had, like, a part in the front that we were going to peel back. So I'm kind of waiting to do that. Junkyard? Junkyard was in there. I think No Good Gophers. I'm pretty sure I saw one for No Good Gophers. Doctor Who, I want to say. We already have that one. I'm trying to remember the rest. Yeah. Once we get them back from Keith, we'll go through and reconfirm. We should go through those, and we should go through the other ones, some of them. Go through your binder. Some funny ones. Yeah, so No Good Gophers today as part of our runnings abouts and the ins and the outs. Someone that was getting an X-Men premium was partially trading in as part of their purchase at No Good Gophers. So you kindly said, hey, I don't have any room at my house for this. And Zach's barcade is full up. So if you want to have this for a little while, go ahead and have your time with it. And I'm pretty excited to get in there. Have you played it yet? I didn't. You don't have a chance to revisit it? No. Maybe later. Yeah, probably later tonight after I leave here. I'll put a few games on it and see what's what. Get in there and... Get her proper water in you. Oh, obviously. I mean, come on. Change it to five bowl if you like. So that was the first one. All right. So this one threw me off a little bit. So we talked about, while we were in Chicago, Pequod's Pizza. and i was told via messenger that p quads isn't chicago style pizza so then what is it that's the question we are in chicago so it's like a chicago style time we think we're like they're eating chicago style pizza and apparently it's not so so what is it i'm pretty sure so what do you guys define at like obviously like lou malinati's giordano's those sort of places are the classic Chicago deep dish pie. Is it because they're too quick about it sometimes? Other times we've eaten there, though, it has taken the longer... When we ate at the one that was downtown, it was definitely a long wait. It was the classic 45 minutes, 55 minutes easily for your pizza. But this one last time was the speedy version. I thought it was the speedy version. Was it just a bar pie? It was still delicious. I was asleep in the car, by the way. Oh, can I have an opinion on this? Well, I'm just saying. Every time we've been to Chicago, I don't necessarily take you to a Chicago-style pizza. But Peace is amazing, too. I'm pretty sure. See, the reason I would think it was is because the first time I ever went there was with Tank and Angelica. Angelica found it, and she was on a mission to find somewhere that had, like, she wanted to get her Chicago-style pizza. And so I'm not questioning this person. I just remember the first time that we went. That was the reason. And Angelica is like a real like – she does the TripAdvisor stuff and gets all the guides and all that. So she was like dead set on finding a place that had Chicago-style pizza and served beer, and it had to be before noon or whatever. Is this person a Chicago person? It wasn't. Then I don't know if I can trust her opinion. You're going to have to get more information. I'll do a deeper dive. What do they define that as? I guess what are the differences? We need to know what the parameters are of what the Chicago – So for me personally, I would – I think it's Chicago style, but I also consider it just a thick crust pizza. It's not necessarily the traditional pizza pie that you think of when you think of Chicago style, which I'm not opposed to it one way or the other. It's like a different version of Chicago pizza. But it's a staple. I mean whenever you Google or TripAdvise or whatever best pizza places in Chicago, it's typically in the top five. I mean the list is really good. Yeah, delicious. This is like the same conversation. I mean, everybody can agree that it's better than that Schittsburg pizza where they don't melt the fucking cheese. Oh, it's disgusting. It's just not good. What Corbin and I were up in. Here's a piece of bread with some cheese on it. Is that like the place in Medina? Yeah, well, Ohio Valley. Yeah, yeah. I'm kind of a fan. I don't know. I didn't mind it. I don't hate it. I like all pizzas. Well, I do too, but not your favorite. not anything from schittsburg it was kind of like a lunchables kind of deal ours was better than lunchables and it wasn't from schittsburg that was the difference too see up in medina these guys it's more of a class act I'd imagine I haven't been to the schittsburg place but just guessing what's the place where they put french fries on everything per manny brothers that's what it is you get a salad you get some french fries you get a hamburger you get some french fries I don't know the other place it's fine you get some french fries they put french fries another food question for you guys oh boy so mac and cheese what do you define as hold on hold on what do you define as what do you define as mac and cheese like is does it have to be a certain way does it have to have a certain style noodle like what's the traditionally for me it's an elbow noodle so if it comes out it's like a shell or if it's a do you get mad if it's a spiral like is that would you demand to see the manager i think you guys have been around me enough to know that like i'm pretty you bring me some food we we met somebody who got mad that it wasn't an elbow noodle and it was being called mac range yeah so was it by it i feel like was it max or ollie no otherwise i feel like it's like a i watch those kids eat noodles off the floor okay they don't care i feel like it's a case of like extinct uh different identity like we we all call it a kleenex even though it's a tissue right like we call it by the brand name duct tape yeah yeah it's not necessarily made yeah band-aid is a bandage you know so same thing like i think it's a blanket so it's still mac and cheese for me yeah it's still mac and cheese there's noodle and cheese involved it's mac and cheese yes absolutely just one just curious you know it's not craft mac and cheese no no okay yeah it doesn't still mac and cheese okay that's all can we fucking tortellini with cheese i don't eat it. We're on the subject of mac and cheese here. Do you guys ever put vegetables in with your mac and cheese? I'm a big fan. I love some broccoli. How about brisket in your mac and cheese? I wouldn't be surprised. How about both? My sister-in-law does an amazing one with a pretzel crust on top. I'm listening. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. What's on the inside, though? Brussels sprouts. No, no vegetables. It's like more traditional mac and cheese and then with a pretzel crust on the top. not again how dare you do this i fooled you once i'll pull you twice game on all right our third of four uh fact check items here would be people love pulling like no matter what i say people think i say it too much so then i'll pivot to some other crutch word that i use too much so apparently recently i've been saying absolutely a lot again and then saying whatnot. Jeff said absolutely. There it is. So apparently when I'm trying to not use absolutely, I'll use whatnot instead. Whatnot absolutely. The Jeff Vocabulary Police. Keep on keeping on there. Next time I'm on this board, I'll record some new ones for you. You guys get in front of these microphones and see if you don't repeat the same words over and over. Let me see your podcast. I don't think anybody else has any words that the rest of us say over and over again. It's just me. I'm sure there are. There probably are. I don't know. And then the final item in the fact check, and this is not totally a fact check item. I had a few messages that their new favorite segment is Trailer Talk with Corbin. I was thinking about that today. We're running out of things. I mean, there's only so much trailers. Here we are. Let's go to everyone's favorite new segment, Trailer Talk with Corbin. Hey, guys. How's it going? Oh, Tank, hold on. Quiet down, bud. Quiet down. Tank's not been here for a recording for a while. I texted him today. Ziggy's sleeping on the couch. He said he had to close. Man. He must be vibing up for all that dad duty he's about to be taking care of. He's probably a busy boy. He's busy. All right, so we were pulling the trailer today. Yeah, you know, since the last time we talked, I'd say I probably pulled it about, I don't know, six, seven times, eight times maybe. So you've put some miles on it and improvements and upgrades since the... I checked the lug torques. Definitely checked those the other day, and I swept it out. Did you happen to leaf blow it while someone was inside? Yeah, only when you're in there. I did do that today. Pushed in, and no, I did not. Not while you were in there. Okay, that's fair. No, I cleaned it. I swept it out. Are we still rolling open wheel on one side? Yeah, we're still rat rod. I just haven't had a chance, and there's been these big-ass signs down the way. I've got to back it into the other section. So let's talk about the stern pinball alley signs that came in the other day. Dude, these are big. Are they? Did you guys unbox one? Massive. The box is the size of the bed inside the wheel wells. Of the big truck. Of an eight-foot full-size Chevy. Yeah, so we took the- This wasn't somebody saying the dimensions. Actually, I have the dimensions, actually. I measured the box. The fucking heater, right? Yeah, it's enormous. And I think part of it, too, was that it was in centimeters and kilograms. So people were then instead of totally off. Yeah. They were like, oh, well, it's not centimeters. It's inches. And it's like, well, no, it's actually much bigger. OK, so, yeah, the box is 94 inches long, which is almost eight feet, like seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's 94 inches long. It's 42 inches wide and it's 10 inches tall. Damn, that's a big for one for one. Yeah, yeah. And so they came on a pallet of three, but it's like, how are we going to ship? So they took two full-size pallets and ran two-by-fours down them and screwed them together. And so now the challenge is, how are we going to ship these other two? I mean, are we going to just have to put them on their own big-ass individual pallets? I would assume. We're just going to have to roll down to North Carolina real quick and get them. Yeah, reach out to a couple other dealers and see how they're shipping them. Because there has to be something that's in between retail and freight. Yeah. Something in the middle. I think the challenge is just that nobody wants to move it without the forklift. I'm going to jump top. Is it heavy at all? No. I wouldn't assume. No. I mean, 50 pounds? The total weight for three of them with the pallet was like 310, I want to say. But it had to be mostly wood because once we took them off, Jeff and I could easily, I think you moved them by yourself. Corbin was on the roof leaf blowing gutters and I'm like, I'll be productive down here and do something else. Right into your face. Yeah, I was like, Jeff's under... He was putting something in his car, and I'm just like, yes. He's under the awning peeing against the building. That was my chance to get him. So talking about shipping things, on the last episode, we briefly talked about cargo ships, and I said that I think we should buy one. Oh, yeah. So I went on to Petronav.net, where they sell cargo ships. Oh, is that your premier trading place for cargo ships? How much? So I'm going to go around the table, and I'm going to say a 2008 cargo ship. No, that's way too fucking big. 08, okay. 08 cargo. How many miles? Nautical miles? How many miles? How do they measure ships? Is it hours? Is it miles? It's got to be a little bit of both. It's got to be hours, and it's got to be how many cargo shipping containers can you fit on your cargo ship. That's obviously big. I mean, we don't need... Let's just say this is a standard cargo ship. So how many containers can you fit on it? Let's just say it's a standard. What does that mean? Yeah, I mean, is it four? What kind of return on this can I see? How many am I going to haul with our... We've got to run a couple. How many others can we throw in to make some money off? It's a 2008 Corbin. All right, keep talking. I'm going to look through some facts on that. Kyle, how much do you think a standard size cargo ship... I want to know what the fuck a standard size cargo ship is. And this is like in working condition? Are we talking like running good condition here? Ready to go down the road. work six months on this before it goes out. You're going to get into the cargo ship and you're going to wreck down the road. How does this work? You guys have way more questions than I have answers. Do we have to learn how to sail this thing I not ready to be a first mate I going to get really really seasick Oh Kyle would be so seasick Zach yes I not coming guys It's $400,000 on this. Kyle, are you going to go higher than $400,000? I'm going to go $1.8 million. Okay, $1.8 million. I don't think they're going to be cheap. $19 million. That's what I said. We're in the 40s. Not 2008. It needs to literally be a steamship. Yes. has some beating coal into it yeah no shit that's our price range yeah and upon further inspection if we ever needed to take our cargo ship through the panama canal that's pricing it's like 100k for to go one way through the panama canal that's why i need to know how many how many containers yeah because then i know because you might be able to have enough containers on there that 100k you're like yeah here take it buddy sounds good all right maybe my dive wasn't quite deep enough I thought like if I got you Next week on container talk I mean does it come with like a If we're starting segments A crew for the galley and everything making us dinners and shit Dude I assume The 19 million just gets you the ship That's it No crew No anything else No warranty is conveyed with the ship It's just the ship What if we put their Stern logo on it What have we got Two year two year or one year you can appreciate that oh my goodness that's what I'm saying just put like Captain Gary up there and shit Captain Gary you could definitely subcontract out to all these smaller companies and be like hey we're sailing the pinball Antonio Cruz we could be half Antonio Cruz ship too we could put a bunch of pinballs on it boom done but the problem is that this Antonio Cruz is 14 months you're just stuck on this ship with us you actually are part of the crew now you thought it was just going to be leisure but now you're down there shoveling coal i bet we could get those guys who did the latrine sort of i bet we could get them to go in on this i think i mean jason knapp was doing the whole tracking what containers were coming in and how often they were for the pinball manufacturers so we got american and jjp and stern and we're bringing in, you know, I'm sure Rob Burke is bringing in enough containers to keep our ship full all by itself. So, we have some opportunities here. And, uh, Pinball Brothers. Pull the trigger. Let's get it coming. We can get some Lebowski's moving real quick. I'm gonna need the Mad Pinball credit card, Corbin. I'm gonna need to up the limit so I can get this cargo ship, alright? Any more facts. That's all I need. Just need some facts. So, final item here I have before we get into the meat of this episode is Eric Derheimer sent me some pictures. He and his family were up at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this week, and I knew there were pinball machines there on occasion for different exhibits and different things. And he sent me a picture of an ACDC Pro. A pro at the Hall of Fame. I know. But the question in my mind was – He's a professional, Corbin. Does the Hall of Fame own those games? No, there was his name. Are those Keith's? No. Campanelli? Campanelli? I think it's Cadillac normally Oh is it Cadillac? Or no Who does Is it not Don Johnson? Oh okay It possibly could be I thought it was one of those guys up in Cleveland Okay Somebody told me who it was And they're Well yeah it is what it is I mean they're one of those That situation But they said they're all on free play In there so you pay your admission And while you're in there you can Play some free pinball Maybe we should see if they want us to sponsor some Just ACDC? No, there were two other games that he sent me pictures of as well, but ACDC stuck out in my mind because when it's the Pro, it doesn't have that lower play field. So you have Angus' enormous face right in the middle of the play field. But I know when I'd been up there before, they'd had the original Ballykiss machine up there at one time, an Iron Maiden Pro, the newer Stern version. You mean Archer? Yeah, exactly. The Keith Elwin classic. So I thought that was interesting. But yeah, I'll have to do some asking around to see if those are Don's games or who they are. Quarter up Halloween party. So we have that this past Monday. Three of the four of us were made it up there. Zach was on dad duty, so he wasn't able to do what you got to do, partake in the festivities. But it was a good turnout. I think there were over 25 people who played in the Monday tournament. And then there were 30 to 35 total people who were just hanging out in costumes and having a good time with the whole vibe of the night. Some of my favorite costumes that I saw that night, my probably top one was tournament director Ben wearing. Oh, my God. His costume was awesome. It was awesome. Right. I was trying to explain it. It's like if you don't know what he looks like, it would make no sense. Yeah, he was the neighbor. So the movie From Home Alone. Yeah. The movie Home Alone, the neighbor that... Has the trash can. The old man. The old man that Macaulay Culkin is scared of the entire time. That's how he dressed up as, but he carried around the snow shovel and had the long jacket on and the snow boots. Literally, he walked in and I'm like, that's the guy. He's a very tall, slinky guy. And he has the beard and everything. He looks just like him. Yeah, it's great. He nailed it. So then my runner-up costume was Corbin. He walked in in full Cousin It regalia. I mean, he was hairy from head to toe. It was. I love that people, like, I was standing around talking and people did not realize it was me. Oh, there's no way. Yeah. I was like, this is awesome. So talk about that costume. Where did it come from? So I ended up getting it for, we went to an Addams Family murder mystery dinner thing. Yeah. And it was costume optional. So I, of course, was like, well, I mean, I'm going. So I got that Cousin Nick costume and I wore it there and I wore it all night. And I'd say it was like 80, 20, 85, 15% people did that didn't have costumes to did. So you were part of the 15% that did wear a costume. Yeah, it was pretty slim. So you were there with Anna. Did Anna wear a costume? No, no, no. Come on. She was going to be thing. She was going to be thing and wear all black and have her hand come out of a box. But then I don't know what happened. She didn't do it. So I was like, well, I'm committing. So I did not take the hair off all night. I just moved it a little bit to eat and just chilled out there. It was pretty cool, though, because no one, like, you have no idea who was in there all night. They didn't know if you were part of the show. No. It was a real mystery. Some of the other people at the table, Larry and Ashley did not, of course. Larry could have just went as Fester. I mean, he was like halfway there. There were people there with, like, bald caps on, and it's like, dude, this could have been you. Dude, that would have been so easy for him. It would have been so easy. I knew it was you instantly. I was like, oh, this is just Corbin with a little bit more hair than usual. I remember that guy was asking He's like that beard's not real And I'm like no it's really good The beard is the realest part of this costume So then two of my other favorites Were always I love a good Where's Waldo costume And then there was a Carmen Sandiego Which I don't think I've seen that one Before Where in the world And then Kyle showed up as a single banana Not a bunch of bananas A single banana We should have went to the Olympics and ran around the Congo Yeah. Dude, people love that shit. I don't even know. Once they hand out candy and I was like, people are like, banana man. I'm like. They all probably thought you were Peely from Fortnite. I have no idea. You do the Peely dance? Are you into this band or something? I'm like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Max got the new Lego catalog and I had no clue what that was. And there's a Lego set of that banana in there. So we saw we were in Columbus this weekend and stopped by the Lego store. and that Lego is creepy because it's like half banana and then half skeleton. Yeah. I've had a lot of bananas in my life, and I've never bit into one. They're like, oh, man, got a bone in my teeth. Got that skeleton bone. Yeah, that would be, yeah, that would seem good. I don't even like bananas. What? No. Like, do you like them in any form, like banana bread? Yeah, yeah, yeah, or like a dried chip, like a banana chip. Oh, yeah. I'm not down on just, like, eating a banana. Why? You just don't like the flavor, the texture? None of it. Is it the shape? That's where I was going here. No, I love the shape of the penis. I didn't ask. Okay. So it's just you just don't like the texture or something, I guess. All right. So anyway, next upcoming event will be Hoover Pinball League in North Canton, Ohio. Sunday, November 10th, starting at 3 p.m., we'll be launching Corbin's X-Men Premium over there. We're taking it to Wednesday, too. This Wednesday to Unhitched. So Wednesday will be November the 13th. Probably tomorrow when you guys are listening to this. The 6th. Right? 6th. Yeah, Wednesday the 6th. 6th, yes. Sorry, 13th is next week. Yes, the 6th. It's Monday the 4th, and then we have to vote about some bullshit tomorrow. And then... Kids are in school tomorrow. So Wednesday, November 6th, we'll have it on Hitched Brewing Company. And then the following Sunday, which is the 10th, it'll be at the Hoover Pimple. It's our lunch party. Go to school. Three. Three. Are you going to go play? I'll probably play. You always threaten to come and then you always fail me. Is it on Sunday? It is on Sunday. Kyle should come too. Is it a BYOB thing? Yes, you can bring in your own adult beverages. Just be discreet and respectful. Just respectful. Mike doesn't care. All right, let's move into the main topic of the episode tonight. one that I've been pushing for for a while and finally you guys have relented and are allowing me to have the He acts so abused. I'll show you guys the bruises. He wasn't allowed to nap today. You give a guy one bruise one time You guys have no idea how hard these all-dayers are on my body. No fucking naps again. Not a single nap. You stuck a nap in this afternoon. Don't let him fool you. I got home and I had to start cooking dinner. It was a whole thing. That's your business. It was my business. He's got you cooking dinner now. That's you. I know. Priorities. He had to cook my dinner first. Yeah, that's why I thought. So under – Was it ham steak today? Spamburger hamburger. Under-appreciated pinball designer. So whatever your definition of that is, maybe a pinball designer that you don't hear people talk about a lot when they say, oh, this is my Mount Rushmore of designers. These are people that kind of slip through the cracks. It seems like a lot of the hot names right now, obviously, George Gomez has a lot of classics, Steve Ritchie, Keith Elwin, Brian Eddy, Pat Lawler. These are all designers. Household names. Household names. Family names. Definitely household names. I think these are ones that, by and large, when people say great designers, those are the ones that roll off the tongue first. So I made a list for me of three that I feel are underappreciated and have made some epic games. So if you guys don't mind, I'll start off with my first. Okay, what do you got? So my first is Scott Denisey. I think that for the three games that I know of that he's designed, two of them are just absolute bangers for me. See, I don't consider him underrated at all. I consider him, like, top rated. I consider him top rated. It's underrated slash underappreciated, though, right? That's true. Yeah, I think in our circle, he's at the top and someone that we would talk about often. But I think in general, when you ask someone who are on your Mount Rushmore of designers, you're not going to get many people who are going to say Scott Danesi. I guess the games that we're also talking about that we're such fans of are kind of as around as they are for us because we all have TNA everywhere. And then Rick and Morty goes around. They're very around, but I don't think that's normal. And I think maybe that's partially part of the challenge. Yeah, he's not designed for Stern, so he's not had a game that's... Do you think he ever would? I think he's so... Kyle and I were having a little bit of this conversation around Pinball Olympics when I said I'm surprised that he's not had more things. And he's like, well, Scott Danesi is into DJing, and he's into this, and he's into retro culture and everything else, to where pinball is a part of who he is and what he does, but I don't think it's the defining thing for him. If you think about it, TNA was just a homebrew originally. Exactly. Yeah, but that's what the newer generation of stuff is going to be, and it's going to be really good because of it. Yeah, you're not going to have any of those restrictions or shackles or chains that are saying, hey, you have to do these things within this build of materials. It's, okay, I'm building this homebrew, and then someone's like, oh yeah we need to produce that thing yeah i mean just like the borderlands 2 thing that we saw at expo i mean if someone doesn't use that idea somehow in a commercially built game it'll be a huge missed opportunity because i think that could be a game changer if that shows up at a family fun center or dave and busters of something for someone to play that as the first pinball machine they've played in 20 years like it would blow their minds it's it's and it's more than just a novelty there were aspects of it that were just so cool to me so scott denisi is my first underappreciated um underrated designer that i'd love to see more games from him and if he uh you know chooses to do that i would definitely be at the front of the line absolutely 100 purchase and or at least uh put some serious coinage into one of his games agreed agreed so corbin do you have Yeah, I'll go with the first one I'm going to say is Mark Ritchie. I think Steve Ritchie gets the spotlight a lot. And, you know, Steve's good too, but I think Mark has done a ton of games. Because he also had a time where he was at Capcom for a minute. Mark also has made a serious list of games. All the way up to now, you know, he's still around. He's a random guy to talk to. Look at Paul Fiction. Paul Fiction's awesome. See, that's another person I wouldn't consider underrated. I don't know. I'm not saying underrated. I just feel like you don't ever He's just a real casual guy Underappreciated Because even the casualness when you see him He's just hanging out at Pinbrew Real casually I don't have as many as I used to down here But I still have Taxi I'm scrolling through his list of games And it's just like Damn dude, the guy's made some games And it was interesting talking to him At this last Pinbrew And he was saying that he had two more designs Already basically done and in the bag For future play mechanics releases. So that's super interesting to me to know that Pulp Fiction wasn't just a one-off, you know, a quick little return. Like, this is going to be a regular thing for him. It's fine with me. I'll be curious to see if you think he's going to keep doing single-level playfields, or do you think he's going to mix it up? I think that Pulp Fiction was... that was a request of the licensor, that that's what they wanted. They wanted a retros. Yeah, it might not be. Right. Like, Breakshot, I mean, that's single-level. Well, he wasn't full on it, but it says with thanks to on it with him. Yeah. I mean for me Indiana Jones Pinball Adventure is a loaded game It a wide body I mean there everything going on on that game So he can do anything from your most loaded game I mean, Indiana Jones Pinball Adventure is basically on the same level as Twilight Zone in terms of everything that's on the game of what's going on there. So he can pack a game or he can do a single level, you know, sort of situation like Pulp Fiction. Definitely. yeah i mean i'm just i'm just scrolling through a little bit now looking at some of his designs and the interesting thing here is him and his i didn't realize mark ritchie did so many call outs on games and it's talking about on here he did call outs on taxi big gun tomcat they just recruited whoever's having yeah whoever was out in the office hey man you want to do this earth shaker police force yeah like they ride a pinball i feel like he probably has some interesting stories. He might be somebody who we could talk to. Oh, he would cop on here without a doubt. I wish I would have talked to him at Expo. Pinbrew. We can take the board with us and I'm sure he'd sit down for 15-20 minutes and shoot the breeze. That would be... I just wonder to be someone that does call-outs in pinball, do you have to smoke a lot of cigarettes to get that gravelly voice? Is that part of it? Yeah. I don't know if people have realized it yet, but Steve Ritchie actually just did call-outs on a game that a company that a lot of people know about, Stern X-Men. All right. He did some call-outs on that, so little-known fact. Yeah, Mark Ritchie, I think he is one that's underappreciated because his brother is considered on the Mount Rushmore, so people tend to forget about him. Who do you have, Zach? I don't know. So what do you have down here? Mark Ritchie You've got Mark Ritchie down here You've got Do you think Python's underappreciated Or do you think it's a lot of random Shade because of You know how kind of he was out there And he kind of was hard to get along with You know whatever System 11's Just one after another I think you just look at some of his stuff Not just the artwork but like A pin bot, bride of pin bot That sort of thing it's literally like developing a character within pinball before licenses that people gravitated to and latched on to so i think a lot of what he does is has been fantastic but to answer the question of you know is he underappreciated i think that people by and large do tend to look at him just as this you know creator this crazy mad scientist out there yeah you know you can never really pin him down to get him to you know work a normal schedule or anything else but in reality like you and i have had the conversations of musicians and actors and whatever like truly creative people don't work nine to five those people no not at all it's just not reality it's not something that can be you know expected of a personality like that yeah what do you think kyle i'm gonna go uh Bryan Hansen. Oh, what are some Bryan Hansen games? I'm not sure I'm familiar. There might be one sitting here. Odds are decent. What's that? Odds are decent. The odds are decent. Bryan Hansen. Sounds kind of familiar. So who is he designed for? This little company called Capcom. Oh! So Flipper Football? So Flipper Football and Pinball Magic. Oh, okay. And Pinball Magic's always been one of my favorite layouts of any game. So did he only work at Capcom? Yeah, and then Ziggy Bingy, and that's it. Ziggy Bingy. Yep. And I agree with you on Pinball Magic, so the first time that I went to rack it up in Pinball Magic was there, and I played it. I absolutely loved it more than Theater of Magic. I thought it was the superior version. So before I even knew Corbin or any of you guys, obviously, I was like, oh, this game's going to be there, and I went and it was fucking broken. It had only been there for a couple hours. I think your dad came and fixed it while I was sitting there having a beer or something. Yeah, that's a game for me the first time that I played it. It's like the mechs on this are incredible. They give him co-design with Python on Flipper Football. Okay. Very cool. Interesting. And then another guy that is co-designed on Pinball Magic is Rob Hurtado? Has he done anything else? Okay, yeah, I would say Hurtado Hurtado, South Park, Viper Knight Drive-In, X-Files, Lost World Jurassic Park, Independence Day, Goldeneye, Apollo 13, Pinball Magic So he's on design on all of those, or co-design? Mechanics And some game design So Capcom to Sega, that's an interesting one And everybody at this table knows that I'm a sucker for those God, I wish I would have kept that fucking Goldeneye That Goldeneye was so clean, it had no crotch burn Zero The thing that was frustrating with that one Is we barely had it working For our tour Because it kept fighting us It was just the DMD Everything else in that game worked perfectly Oh perfectly yeah But the DMD just would freak out on it sometimes I remember I was shopping that And I'm like oh shit there's a fucking magnet right here That's never been on Whoever bought a nude Turned that off and it was great There's so many great those Sega eras. I want an Apollo 13. Apollo 13 would be sweet. The Viper game would be fun. I mean, I've always wanted one, but no. No, Apollo 13's a showstopper on location because of the 13-ball multiball, like everyone. Yeah, like Independence Day is Rob Hurtado, game design and mechanics. Wow. And that's a cool one. Yeah. So he was out after Sega, though? Nothing past Sega? Nothing past Sega. Okay. I'm going to have to mark that name down and do a little bit of research. I mean, Lost World's obviously Borg, but he's mechanics. Mechanics with work. So you did some cool stuff then. Some of those games you named have some cool mechs on them. Oh, without a doubt. Apollo 13 mechanics. I'll have to see if he's on social media or somewhere active and try to get in touch because I'd love to talk about that Sega era. I would love to hear about it. That would be a very interesting feature episode. So Night Driving, the concept was by Joe Kamikow, but the game design was by Rob Hurtado. Joe Kamikow is kind of a wild He's on everything I feel like you don't hear I mean you do I guess hear his name sometimes Software, Jon Norris So, and Lonnie Rapp Jon Norris is on my list of underappreciated designers because people just seem to sleep on that era of Gottlieb for whatever reason, whatever their reasons may be because Williams was the top dog at the time or whatever people's perspectives are But Jon Norris, in terms of design, coding on a budget, and everything else that we've talked about, I mean, some of those games that he's done, Waterworld, Stargate, Gladiators, Robo Wars is one of my favorites. And then my son wanted me to mention for sure that Super Mario Bros. was one that he worked on. For me, all of those games are just cool. they're ones that you know he just knocked out of the park and definitely wanted to shout out Jon Norris on this because i think that barry bros is real fun too i actually played for two and a half hours at a bar in st louis whenever you we had talked about this is what we were doing he was one that i had thought of i was like i guess we already kind of gave him some love but i agree that he um he still is not i just think he's underappreciated it's the era some of those games from that era just like even similar to the sega games like we were talking about this last guy like they they came and went so quick and there's such low numbers that those guys didn't have a chance if they were designing 10 years earlier or 10 years later they might who knows what what the story would be because some of the designers are best known for like uh Steve Ritchie people know him for the black knight series and it's if those games weren't coming weren't around at peaks and they were in valleys instead maybe he would be underappreciated all the time could right time, right place with some of these. Oh, with a lot of things, not just pinball. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Round back again, though. GoldenEye is only 700 production? Really? That's it? Yeah. Really surprised. I feel like I see that game more than a game that was produced for only 700 units. 700 units. Oh, I believe it. I just know that I've personally seen Lost World 600. I mean, there's an egg on there that isn't in the fucking movie. How many Twisters did they make? Does it say? Twisters? Twister. Man, that's in that Sega era. Yeah. Oh, you're going. I'm all that guy. Okay. Anyway, the next, I have another one. Yeah. So, Jon Norris, though, definitely. His name was Dan Lengolas. Oh. So, he was game design on some of the games, such as Strange Science, which, dude, that's your man right there. That's my guy. That's your guy. He did some of his games here. We're looking at Gilligan's Island, Radical, Valley Game Show, Truck Stop, Ramp Warrior. This is this late. He was like a late 80s designer. Ramp Warrior, yeah. Escape from Lost World. Mary Beth loves that one. Escape from Lost World, yeah. Heavy Meadow Meltdown, Strange Science, Black Belt, Karate Fight, Hot Shots. Canceled. A couple of these were canceled. Anyway. But no, he had some cool random games from a random time and that was it then. it's just like these guys who worked in it for like so he works was in it for maybe almost 10 under 10 years and then do they just decide like that's what makes you wonder is those were cool games like there was cool mechs on there's cool features on some of those games strange science i mean i know you have a love for that even heavy metal meltdown like while it's a simple game i love it's easy to walk up to understand what the objectives are what you need to do lost world's cool too escape and enjoy all those so just wonder what they do now you know well that's the thing is like you do pinball design for 10 years and then what you're going to toy design are you going to or do you just become an accountant after that like just get a job by your house i mean like what's the what's the next thing you do they were hiring nearby like well but i don't know so it'd be like the early 90s you got out of that maybe you got into like beepers or i don't know so talking about toy designers when we were at pinball expo one of the vendor tables the guy had two of the George Gomez toy designs. Did you? The Rock'em Sock'em Monster Trucks. The Nudge guys. They were out there. The Rock'em Sock'em Monster Trucks was phenomenal to me. It was pretty sweet. It was pretty cool. So it was basically you had two small remote control almost toy trucks that had body parts that would blow off based on how hard the other truck hit you. Like the fenders or head to head or whatever. I thought that was really, really cool. and they had it not just sitting there in the box for people to look at the box and appreciate but they actually had the toys set up to where you could play them experience and experience them the whole nine yards so i thought that was pretty neat to see you know george gomez video game designer george gomez toy designer george gomez pinball designer it's like wow that guy has really run the full gamut of uh creativity so my third and final underappreciated pinball designer is ward pemberton so sega goldeneye he was involved in the original bally fathom system 11 mousing around and then two that have a very similar mechs for bally back in the day hard body with the flex save and dungeons and dragons with the magic save so you look at fathom i think that's considered by many to be one of like the all-time like great classic layouts to the point where haggis said oh we need to remake this game because there's such a desire and want and need for this game out there but i just look at those four or five titles by themselves and they're all completely different all completely different eras different systems different companies all of that fun stuff So he's one that, you know, I was aware of because of Fathom and Goldeneye, but as I started to click through and see some of the other stuff that he was involved with, definitely one that isn't at the tip of people's tongues whenever they're talking about great designers. But when you break down each one of those games, I think you can see components within those that then other designers used in their future games. I think that's kind of the interesting thing, too, about, like, designing pinball at this point, that there's so much, like, you know, they say, like, oh, this is new, that is new. It's like, at the end of the day, like, so much, like, you go back to some of these EMs. Go back to the EMs, yeah. You can find most mechs and features that, you know, are being used today. It's just interesting. It's all just being reused in different ways and somebody's new spin on it. I think that's... How many games did Harry Williams design? Like, 1,700 or something? It was some scene amount. It was a lot. How many per year are you doing? He was just a robot. I think that's one of the interesting things about Jack Danger is he's fully transparent and willing to go back and look at these games from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. And you can see some of the interesting uses of different mechs. Yeah, the different mechs, even with X-Men, to say, okay, we're going to offset these flippers and try this. I like it. And the Danger Room is so good. Oh, it's more fun than Upper Playfield to me. I agree. It's right in your face. It's super easy to get into also. It's right in your face. Yeah. It's not back there where I don't appreciate it usually up there. Well, I like how there are different ways, multiple ways to get into it and multiple ways to get out of it. It's not like an upper play field where you have to hit that ramp to get into it. That's the only way. Be quick with that flipper up there. You're going to miss it. Yeah, and then it's back out of there where it's like, okay, oh, my gosh, I'm in the danger room during multiball. You can play a little bit in there. Definitely. Yeah. I haven't tested it yet. Are you able to stage flip with that left flipper to like? Yeah, absolutely. Can you? Okay, I just haven't tried. That would be cool. You can absolutely stage flip. I'm going to have to mess around with that a little bit. But that's what I love about some of the current designers. You can definitely be cradling a ball on that left flipper and be in the danger room. That's very, very cool. Oh, yeah, obviously. But some of the stuff where people are taking things from the past and bringing them back around, and Stern is successful enough at this point to where they're willing to take a chance on, hey, we're not going to just do a traditional cookie cutter design. We're going to put this game out there. and hopefully people love it. And to this point with X-Men, it's been rave reviews and people enjoying. And then we've been hearing from other locations and operators that the game is also earning well on location, which means that there's a lot of interest in the game of people wanting to get out there and try it. Yeah. Ooh, talking about events too. Talking about X-Men, I'm just saying while you're talking about people playing X-Men, we forgot to mention Quarter Ups launch party. Yeah, when is that? 25th of November. So 2024. November 25th, 2024, 7 p.m. Again, costumes encourage. You need to come down as your best gambit, cyclops. Is that right before Thanksgiving? Yeah. That be the Monday before Thanksgiving If you back in town visiting family I know Sorry not to interrupt the conversation I think that perfectly in point of what we were talking about I know our friends from Arizona, the Lazars, are going to be back in town for the holidays. Lazars are back in town. Yeah, Lazars are back in town. Visiting the quarter up since they're from the area. And then when we were up for the Halloween party, I think we were starting to have some early conversations with the cooks about getting over to the cookade and checking out their games. I know that he's got some games stashed away down there. He's got some stuff, and he was talking about an expansion, so good times there. Definitely. Who do you have next, Kyle? So it's not somebody that's necessarily underrated in pinball, but maybe as a designer? Roger Sharp? I'm going to go with Roger Sharp. So I was a little disappointed. I went into he was part of a trio of a licensing panel at Expo and I only got to stay for about a half hour of it because then I had another obligation with you two gentlemen that we needed to get to but they were starting to talk about the early days of licensing and all of that stuff so talk about some of the games that you kind of forget that he actually designed a few games so Sharpshooter it's not a bad game at all I've played that at Cleveland before. 79. Barakoa. I love that game. It's a fun game. Sharpshooter 2 and Cyclops, which I think I've only played at VFW, which is a very interesting game as well. It is. It is. So I think for the era, they're definitely intriguing games. So he did what? Were they all with Game Plan? Was that who he designed it for? Yeah. Well, Barakoa is Williams. Right. Right. So that one, randomly, we were flying out of Orlando, and we had some time to kill before we had to get to the airport. But also co-designed with Barry Osler and Steve Epstein. Wow. We ended up at this random family fun center that had a huge pinball alley, and they had a Baracora. And I was just like, wow, this doesn't make sense. Yeah, because it's like all these stern LEs. and somebody's like throw the barricade down yeah and at that point they had a row of every single jersey jack game that had been made and then over here there's this there was a barricora over by the new anything like 90s or anything not in that area but out in the outer part there was a game there was a game show there was a wwf royal rumble there were some random things for like a high vault i mean this was essentially like a a dave and busters but had axe throwing and and, you know... Pinballs, apparently. All kinds of crazy stuff. The place where you could go and do karaoke, it was literally anything that you wanted to do, this place would do it. Sounds wild. But yeah, that was my first real memory of putting multiple games on a Barricor. I was like, holy cow, this game is actually gorgeous and really fun. They also credit him for co-concept with Sam Stern on Stingray. Hmm, interesting. Even though Game Design's Mike Kubin, when I think he did all of the electronic games. Stern Electronics are an interesting one to me to where for a long time those were like... Sea Witch, Magic, Trident, Nugent, Memory Lane. Those were $500 games for so long. They were $500 games forever. Or parts games. Right. And then COVID... You can just pull one of those Covenant Valley Williams. You know how many times you find them and they have like the Sterns, a lot of ballet boards, ballets, well, the stern boards. They're 100% interchangeable. How could that possibly happen? They must have just had the same idea at the same time. For sure. A vision. But those came back up in COVID times where prices came up, and then in addition to that, then in the tournament scene, I think people have then started to appreciate what they are for the layouts and the scoring and everything else. I always play that row down when I'm up in VFW. They're always fun to play. I always have a good time on them. I mean, even something as simple as Nugent, it's like I just will walk up to it and have a good time. Isn't that Orbit up there too? That one's fun with that crazy play field. I'm about to bring Nugent over to your house. I didn't know you liked Nugent. I need it with your custom backlash. Custom. You want the custom backlash? One of one. That's right. The hand painted. I need to see that with lights behind it. Proto-type. We're trying to light it up. It's nice. It's color matched. Don't worry. Did Corbin do it in fifth grade or something? I think it came with the game. Oh my god, I gotta say it. Oh, it's pretty special, let me tell you. You did a good job, dude. Honestly, it's not the worst. It could be worse. It could be worse. I think it's better than what I could do. I'm overselling it. Or am I underselling it? Or am I just selling it? Corbin comes back over and it's sold. It's gone, sorry. This was some folk art that people were excited about. So he gave 20 bucks for the games. Yeah. All right. So we talked events. We talked some underappreciated designers. Fair listeners, if you have a favorite designer, if they designed one game that you absolutely love or a handful of games, email Zach. Who should they email? Freshpinball.gmail.com. Let us know who some of those designers are, and we'll shout them out on the next episode. It could be the next season. Who knows? It could be. No. Could be next season. You could be featured on the season premiere of season four, so let us know. Or the season premiere. We don't know. It could be. It could be. I think next season should just be one fucking episode, and then the next season. That doesn't make it a really good episode. No. No, it's going to be the worst one ever. Can't we do the electric bat and do episode 0.9? 1.985 We can do partial decimal pointed episodes That way the first episode is actually Not the first episode It's not episode one It's getting too confusing We'll just name like spooky code Whatever the date is Can we do like a throwback to where we do Negative season one And it actually takes place before our first episode That we ever recorded We don't even know each other It's just the prequels That was the word I couldn't think of It's just Corbin and Zach playing Flipper football without us. Yeah, exactly. Who are these assholes over here? We don't need these guys. I don't even understand. That guy at Nintendo Cats? Why are there stickers on the games? People know whose they are. So bizarre. All right, so we're approaching the hour mark here. So if you gentlemen are ready, we might make the circle around here for final thoughts. Mr. Corbin Angeli, two minor. I want to go last. You want to go last? Okay. Kyle, you have to go first now because Corbin wants to go last any final thoughts here buddy about anything we've talked about anything that you've been having going on no I like X-Men I have to put that out there I'm going to play another game or two before I go home today I can see you vibing on it immediately and rolling it around in your head of like how heavily routed does this game have to become before I can come to my basement I'll get it in two years I'll get in two years when he's routed in and gets out yeah he trades in an LE seems like a good symbiotic relationship dude it honestly does yeah then you can come visit your premium we need to get some more games into your basement Ultraman maybe some Rick and Morty I want to bring some I want to bring some roller coaster stuff over yeah that'd be fun with whatever else too Rick or Ultraman whatever we whatever there's room for because Ultraman's already broken down it is that's definitely be carded right down I don't know if I can pull TNA from Jeffrey's head. No, TNA can stay. I want America's Most Haunted. It's already out, too. It's already out, so that's going to come over to me after it leaves quarter up. But we've had some interesting stuck ball or lost ball issues on America's Most Haunted since it's been up there. So we had one that fell into the cabinet. So the thing is, when I got up there, I couldn't get it to do it again. There was no area that I could find. Where does it go? It goes to the left. It's under the apron. Yeah. Okay. There's like foam there. I saw the foam wedged in there. Yeah. So I just left it. Yeah, that's what I think. We'll run and see what happens. And then what? There's the stuck ball that once the ball starts to get magnetized, it'll grab onto that post up by the other balls. Oh, yeah. Hopefully that should help that. And then when you hit the right ramp to go to the elevator. Just because you never hit it hard enough. I agree. I've never had it happen to me one time. They need to play better. It's hurtful. It's going good, though. I mean, just balls getting stuck. Yeah. No, people are obviously playing. People were very excited about it. I mean, for an early production game, I mean, it plays pretty good. And that was the big thing we were getting on. We were up there Monday. I mean, we had so many people tell us they couldn't believe how good that game was shooting. Yes. Yes, without a doubt. Thanks to you, like Dave. I mean, it only has... Approaching 70,000 plays. Yeah, about 70,000 plays on it. That's insane. And not a dimple on the play field. I just love looking at these companies' first games. You know what I mean? Ninja Eclipse, America's Most Haunted. Yeah What was The thing about Wizard of Oz Oh for real Wizard of Oz Honey Factory Yeah Honey Factory What was We only had to put nail polish on that It would have been Houdini Houdini Okay It's not a bad No I mean that's Bringing to the showing It's a game Other than being a fucking snooze fest It's not that bad It's just Hard They still make it So that's the interesting thing is this run that they're doing right now is the last run that they're ever going to build of it And Legends of the Bahala too, right? You get it used cheap, right? Oh, yeah. They're retiring that. They're retiring Bahala. We already have two Bahalas. They've already retired Oktoberfest. Let's see who will trade us a Houdini for a Bahala. I think they're going to be streamlining what they're producing, so they're not going to have all of these just kind of hodgepodge parts for all these different era games sitting around. They got all their irons in the fire on cup heads. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see what comes next, what the reaction of the community is on it, what the sales look like, all of those things. I know from an operator perspective... I think Whitewater, too. Oh, my gosh. Jesus, what a missed opportunity. So what were the... Somebody kept calling it something that wasn't Whitewater, too. Yukon Yeti or something. I mean, who cares what it's called? To where they could get around the planetary license on it and be able to put it out. It's just out there in limbo. I don't know. it's weird to see to me to see a game like um the barbecue challenge or the galactic tank force come out ahead of like a known entity something that i think people would gravitate to honestly like you guys are out there playing x-men and i'm in on the game too but in between my turn i'm over there playing whitewater i'm just like this is a top five game every time i play it i'm just thinking this is a top five game i literally can't even play that game because i'm just gonna I can't go home. Yeah, it's so good. I'm too addicted to it. Just want to play it. I love that game. It's such a good game. I go out there and have the problem of what should I play, you know? Okay, boo-hoo. Yeah, your room is pretty strong out there. And we've been having the great Carl Weathers to where it's like perfect time to hang in the garage. It is. It really is. All right, Zach, you have any final thoughts here? Just excited to go play more X-Men and probably some white water in there and TNA. Yeah, all the goodies. Probably some Mecha Morty. finish it up Corbin final thoughts buddy Ghostbusters yes yes one of my favorite things about Ghostbusters is the random facts in the attract mode it scrolls through and it tells you random Ghostbusters movie facts really and there's a lot is there a good attract mode I don't know does it have the screaming in attract mode or is that just in the one mode in the game and it went off while people were trick-or-treating isn't it insane oh yeah like you think someone's getting murdered everyone was did you like doing that i'm like did you let the kids play it no it was inside and i was like that's weird if you have it on the porch people are going to be coming up on the porch and hanging out and stuff oh okay i put out micah's spectrum and people play it yeah that's cool how much you have it on quarter 50 cents yeah we won't talk about that dollar 25 dollar 50 dollar per ball It's just right inside the front door So they can hear it I need to get over and put a few games on it Before it gets sold Because the second we list that thing it's going to be gone But if you want to make an offer Corbin at MadPinball.com On a nice Ghostbusters Pro That's recently been cleaned up And gone through So Jeff, any last words from you? My final thought is I want to hit Midnight Madness on it That's all I was going to say to you What is it, 11? so talk about the midnight madness on it oh sorry yeah no hit it man it uh that's why i originally started when yeah yeah i hit it so i hit multiple times and a couple of the times when i hit it it didn't like full-on do the full shutdown thing it just gave you like the bonus at the end but then a couple of the other times it did like the full shutdown for like a good couple seconds before then it started chiming i noticed the only the uh shoot again light is lit when it hits. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yep, that was it. Hit it. It's cool. That was the last one. So it's not as definitive of a... Always as definitive of a Midnight Madness mode as some of the traditional ones were. No. No. So far with it. Yeah. Flashing Midnight Madness. If you're in, like, a multiball or something, it seemed like that's the time it would just add on. Happens, but... You didn't even realize it. Super aware of it, because the game was like, oh, we have all these other things. It's kind of a little bit of a bummer, because... I was looking at a long gap between them. I mean, that would have been like Junkyard maybe was the last one, and then Ghostbusters in 16, and then Monsters a couple years later. What's Monsters? 18, yeah. I guess two. I guess not really that long. But, yep, that's it. No, my final thoughts are I can't wait to get the hell out of here so I get home and play some No Good Gophers all by myself. He's tired of me. in my birthday suit playing some no good gophers figuring out uh how to uh how to make it through that game in the least number of uh strokes should go for the hole-in-one hit the jump ramp little duke kaboom spinning as many strokes as possible all right everyone once again if you're looking for new used pre-owned awesome pinball you should email Corbin at MadPinball.com or Jeff at MadPinball.com. I like that Jeff's getting played out right now. It's not me. We can get you hooked up. But this could be, this very well could be the season finale of season three. Tune in next time. Or it couldn't. And it might be episode 10 of season three or it could be the season premiere. Episode seven, season negative 63. Could be the prequel. Who knows? Who knows what you'll get? We might not even know each other the next time that we sit around this table. We do one before we met. It's just me talking to myself. Thank you and good night.