The Pinball Show Ep 153 BONUS: What I Like, What I Don't About John Wick Pinball

Pinball Show Patreon Feed·podcast_episode·10m 24s·analyzed·Jun 2, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.024

TL;DR

Host praises John Wick's layout and rules but criticizes lack of gun imagery and Pro/Premium differentiation.

Summary

The host discusses his hands-on experience with John Wick Pinball, praising its serviceable fan-style layout with 11 main shots, thematic integration, and strong rule structure featuring baddie boss moments with synced audio/video. He criticizes the lack of meaningful differentiation between Pro and Premium/LE versions, excessive multiballs near the start button, and most notably the absence of gun imagery on the playfield despite guns being central to the John Wick franchise—a design choice he finds fundamentally at odds with the theme.

Key Claims

John Wick has 11 main shots, comparable to Kung Fu in shot density
high confidence · Host's direct observation during hands-on play of the Pro/Premium versions
The car toy in the Pro version is interactive and physically pushes the ball, feeling better than expected
high confidence · Host's direct hands-on experience: 'It will physically push your ball out of the way. So it felt good.'
The rule structure at v0.8 code features baddie boss moments with synced audio and video from iconic battles
high confidence · Host: 'at 0.8 code' and references watching Joel's stream showing the feature
Game has too many multiballs, several positioned near the start button in a 'little JJP-ism' design approach
high confidence · Host's direct critique: 'seems like a handful of multiballs...a couple of them, Dennis, are kind of close to the start button'
The absence of gun imagery on John Wick's playfield is a fundamental design flaw given guns are central to the franchise
high confidence · Host's extended critique comparing to Keanu Reeves' iconic gun scenes and concluding 'It's the guns. This theme, so there is a lot missing'
Expression lighting is now available on both Pro and Premium versions, reducing Pro/Premium differentiation
high confidence · Host: 'now that you can get expression lighting on Pro and Premium' reduces what makes Premium LE special
The Continental target should have done more than just serve as a captive ball—possibly an elevator locking system
medium confidence · Host and Matt Morrison discussed alternatives: 'Maybe something there...an elevator locking system...lift it up like an L1 and physically put balls'
Host prefers John Wick over Venom, James Bond, and Foo Fighters thematically
high confidence · Host's direct comparisons: 'I like this more than Venom, definitely...more than James Bond...more than Foo Fighters'

Notable Quotes

“This very much is Kung Fu fan because it's got 11 blades on it, my friend. 11 main shots.”
Host @ early — Establishes the game has exceptional shot density comparable to iconic Kung Fu pinball
“John Wick, Keanu Reeves holding a gun is the same way as Tom Cruise running to me. There's just something about it that you just need.”
Host @ mid — Core criticism of missing gun imagery—frames it as essential to character identity
“It's like, oh, that's a clever little thing to think about, I'm so nuanced, and I came up with a formula.”
Host @ early — Dismissive but humorous take on design rules (more ramps than flippers criticism)
“I don't, man. I don't need multiballs anymore. It's just kind of fillers to me.”
Host @ mid — Expresses fatigue with multiball overuse in modern pinball design
“The music is fucking killer. Whoever did that music package, like the, not the rock and roll-y stuff, the electric stuff is awesome.”
Host @ late — Genuine praise for audio design as a highlight of the package
“you got it blocking a shot. So it has a couple of functions...I wanted the Continental to do something else besides just a captive ball.”
Host @ mid — Identifies specific mechanical design opportunity missed on the Continental toy
“there's a lot there, but you can tell there's not enough yet. Like, we've got a ways to go to really flesh this thing all the way out.”
Host @ mid — Assessment that rule set is incomplete at v0.8, indicating ongoing development challenges

Entities

John WickgameStern PinballcompanyZach SharpepersonMatt MorrisonpersonJoelpersonDwight SullivanpersonDennispersonRandy Martinezperson Elliot Eismanperson

Signals

?
product_concern: Absence of gun imagery on John Wick playfield contradicts core franchise identity; host views this as fundamental design failure despite understanding it may stem from licensing restrictions
high · Extended critique: 'John Wick no shoot gun...there is a lot missing with no artwork with some guns there...It's the guns. This theme...'
?
gameplay_signal: John Wick exhibits strong playfield flow, 11 main shots, and interactive toys (particularly the car) that feel mechanically satisfying despite modest theme integration
high · Host: 'I really like the layout...It's very flowy and fast, but it's still got some challenging shots...The car was awesome...It felt good.'
?
code_update: At v0.8 code release, rule set features promise (baddie boss moments with synced audio/video) but lacks depth; host expects continued updates and predicts play before v0.85 release
high · Host: 'there's a lot there, but you can tell there's not enough yet...0.80 so I'm thinking...I'm going to guess I'll probably play it before .85'
?
product_strategy: Pro/Premium/LE differentiation is insufficient; expression lighting now available on Pro diminishes Premium value; Continental target lacks distinguishing features compared to car on Pro
high · Host: 'I wish there was just one extra feature...now that you can get expression lighting on Pro and Premium...it's not like a make or break'
?
design_philosophy: Host criticizes modern trend of excessive multiballs positioned near start button as filler for new players; sees this as JJP design influence; concerns about future wizard modes becoming multiball chains

Topics

John Wick Pinball Layout and Mechanical DesignprimaryTheme Integration and Licensing ConstraintsprimaryRule Depth and Code Development (v0.8 status)primaryPro vs Premium/LE Differentiation StrategyprimaryMultiball Design Philosophy and OveruseprimaryGun Imagery Censorship in Licensed GamesprimaryComparative Assessment vs Recent Stern ReleasessecondaryExpression Lighting Market Availabilitysecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Host praises mechanical execution, layout density, rule creativity, and aesthetics, but expresses significant frustration with lack of gun imagery (central licensing failure), insufficient Pro/Premium differentiation, excessive multiballs, and incomplete v0.8 code. Concludes it's playable and better than some recent Stern titles but acknowledges 'a tall hill to climb' with poor launch reception. Net position: moderately positive on design quality, moderately negative on execution and business strategy.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.031

Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. all right dennis i got my hands on a john wick so i figured why not let these people know what i love and what i don't with john wick pinball by stern pinball okay you should probably start with something you really like look i really like the layout you called it serviceable you called it it's not creative but it's a fan layout and fans gonna fan and everyone feels like a badass when they play a fan layout this very much is gung fu fan because it's got 11 blades on it my friend 11 main shots i didn't even think you could squeeze that many into houdini i met a john wick it's it's it's got a lot of shots on what what do you think of the criticism that i think it was slam tilts zach who's occasionally on there made which is a game should never have more ramps than flippers i found that very interesting and i never thought about that i think it's more clever in its wording than anything true yeah yeah i think it was clever it's like oh that's a clever little thing to think about i'm so nuanced and i came up with a formula so yes so i never thought about it in that perspective so i got me thinking so i appreciated it i think what he's getting at is sometimes too many ramps can be a thing uh because they're all safe if you hit them yeah so it doesn't have to be listener just either all ramps or just stand up target there's a lot of things in between orbits are cool uh spinners are cool different interactive mechs are cool what john wick does that i really like is it it makes sense to the theming it's very flowy and fast but it's still got some challenging shots in it as well i love the orbit that's not a full orbit it's like a you know three-fourths orbit and hey there's a 180 oh wait another 180 ramp uh and look I said it, I don't like 180 ramps, but that's the exception. The Munster's 180 ramp. And that one works too. I like the car. The car was awesome in the pro. It almost made me like wonder like shit might it be better than the even the premium LA that swings out because it moves moves It will physically push your ball out of the way So it felt good I can't put my finger on it, but it felt good. Whereas Venom was a good layout. It was smooth enough. But I was lacking that one or two shots that just feel like, damn, that felt good. Where I think John Wick is similar in a lot of ways, but it had a couple of those shots. So, uh, and I liked the little red orbit circle room pop area. I think it's kind of cool. Uh, however, I can't like everything. What I do not like with John wick. I wish there was just one extra feature to differentiate the premium LA from the pro. And what killed me was that car. I had just talked about, right. I thought that was the differentiating factors. You got a physical ball lock with the car that swings out on the premium LE, and you got it blocking a shot. So it has a couple of functions. And I thought it was just going to be a stagnant captive ball kind of bash toy for the pro, but I like the interaction on that. And then I'm thinking to myself, premium LE, you got physical ball lock, which I always prefer to a virtual, of course, it's pinball physical. But then I'm like, it's not like a make or break. And then the bash toy that flips up the crate thing. I'm like, that's not like a deal breaker either because it's just a bash toy. So I wanted the Continental to do, me and Matt Morrison were talking about this this week, wanted the Continental to do something else besides just a captive ball. Like maybe he mentioned, I thought it was brilliant, an elevator locking system there. Like, sure, have your captive ball, but lift it up like an L1. and physically put balls in there or something. Maybe something there. But otherwise, I needed one more feature on that premium alley that I think would have really set it apart, especially now that you can get expression lighting on pro and premium. What I do like about John Wick thus far are, I got to say it, Tim Saxon, I am liking the rule structure quite a bit between the baddie boss moments. That was really key for me watching Joel's stream. Like there's four or five different baddies and then in each city or area that you're in, if you defeat enough bad guys then you can go to the sub boss mode basically but it very moment like you get synced audio and video it stops you you watch the iconic battle from the film series and you're playing based on that that's those are moments to me and it's already got that at 0.8 code one of the downsides to this so far listener for John Wick I'm hearing is man there's a lot there but you can tell there's not enough yet like we've got a ways to go to really flesh this thing all the way out but they're giving us a taste of it so between the baddie boss moments the enemies on the shots that's really clever how there's the there could be up to three that are blocking a shot i like that um different tasks and not just mode based but it is very mode based game um i like a lot i like all that on the other side what i maybe not like as much seems like a handful of multiballs. And a couple of them, Dennis, are kind of close to the start button. Little JJP-ism. I know. You bash Winston enough to start a multiball. You bash a car enough to start a multiball. I don't. Man, I don't need multiballs anymore. It's just kind of fillers to me. It may be good for new players as they're thinking. I know. that you always want at least one near the start button so but damn if if more advanced players can't use it and maybe you can't so i don't know but if it's just score chasing like if it's if i'm using it for things like elwynn games i'm like okay it's fine that i get there because i can build up my other shots you know for when i get out of it but if it doesn't have that maybe one too many multiples i'm just hoping that the all the little wizard modes because There's all these little wizard moments in this game so far, or they're crafting. I'm hoping that they're not all multi-pulse. You know, I don't, that Dwight Sullivan, hey, you've succeeded at this. I'm going to give you a victory multi-pulse. I don't need any of that. What I do love about John Wick, though, Dennis, is then this is something that you were hoity but not toity on, is I like this overall styling, the lighting, the music. The music is fucking killer. whoever did that music package, like the, not the rock and roll-y stuff, the electric stuff is awesome. Overall theme, I think is a badass theme, not dream theme for me, but one that I like sitting in a collection is badass and just theming neon noir. I like it. I think it just going to be a really nice experience with expression lights and everything It kind of like that Stranger Things effect where even if people don love Stranger Things they go up to it and they like hey with the projector and the UV lights this is kind of cool. This is a cool-looking game. I think it's going to have a lot of that. And the last thing of what I don't really like about John Wick is, I mean, I kind of agree. Shark no eat ball. John Wick no shoot gun. I kind of take issue to it. But he shoots gun on display. Shark don't eat ball on display. Well, maybe it does. I didn't get far enough into Jaws to see that if it did, though. So it is redeeming in that sense. But come on. It's Kung Fu. It's John Wick. I was saying it on last podcast. John Wick, Keanu Reeves holding a gun is the same way as Tom Antonio Cruz running to me. There's just something about it that you just need. and having his his little meditation zen three-finger turtle holding up uh you know with nunchucks it's kind of a cop-out it's just not the same as him blasting somebody in the head with the you know with a pump action shotgun it's just not it's almost like in john wick what three or four all the dogs and stuff i'm like okay it's cute all the blades are just shoot the the fuck we're in the head like it's the guns is this theme so there is a lot missing with no artwork with with some guns there i'm with them when are you going to be able to play this oh probably here in the next few weeks by the time it's 0.85 you think um well do you know when 0.85 is going to drop because it's 0.80 so i'm thinking i'm going to guess no i'm going to guess i'll probably play it before .85. Okay. You have to report back to the pinball show here and let us know what you think. But thus far, what I'm saying is, yeah, not bad. And I understand it better than I understand Jaws still. What came before Jaws? Venom. Yeah, I like this more than Venom, definitely. I like this more than James Bond, too. James Bond just didn't do anything for me, but I know people love James Bond now. I can get behind this theme more than i can foo fighters even like that it's got a lot of check boxes but it's got a it's got a tall hill to climb though with coming out of the gate as it did but we shall have to wait and see they can stop the yeah push stop go away thanks for the love everybody thanks for the support