Episode 820: "Stern Exclusively Lies Again"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·24m 39s·analyzed·Jul 7, 2023

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Kaneda predicts Venom won't sell day-one, hammers manufacturer dishonesty, shares industry rumors.

Summary

Kaneda discusses Stern's upcoming Venom release, criticizes multiple manufacturers for deceptive business practices (false exclusivity claims, pre-orders before production capacity), addresses listener critiques comparing Jersey Jack and Haggis to established companies, and shares insider rumors about American Pinball, Dennis Nordman, and Jersey Jack's budget struggles with Steve Ritchie. The episode emphasizes that community value outweighs machine purchases and advocates for consumer patience.

Key Claims

Venom will not sell out on day one; will likely sell out within one to two weeks
medium confidence · Kaneda's personal prediction based on current market conditions and pricing
Spooky Pinball is leaving millions of dollars on the table by refusing to make more than 750 Rick and Morty machines despite easily being able to produce another 750
high confidence · Kaneda citing Spooky's stated commitment to limited production
Stern announced James Bond LE exclusive toppers and shooter knobs, then made them available to the wider market after initial exclusivity promise
high confidence · Kaneda directly calling out Stern's broken exclusivity commitment
Jersey Jack customers have waited four to five months for Godfather CE deliveries, which is a significant business mistake
high confidence · Kaneda's direct observation and critique
80-90% of the pinball community has never played a Godfather machine
low confidence · Kaneda's speculation/estimate
Dennis Nordman has two games ready to produce but cannot proceed due to budget constraints
medium confidence · Rumor from Kaneda's source
Steve Ritchie may be in budget negotiations with Jersey Jack management regarding his upcoming game
medium confidence · Rumor from Kaneda's source regarding alleged back-and-forth discussions
Haggis Pinball is announcing new titles while still unable to complete production of existing orders
high confidence · Kaneda's direct observation of Haggis business practices
American Pinball's next game (Ryan's next game) is based on a video game cartoon from the 80s-90s
medium confidence · Rumor from Kaneda's source
Kaneda has been banned from Pinside for eight years

Notable Quotes

“The most valuable thing in pinball is the community it creates... that sense of community is everything.”
Kaneda @ early in episode — Thematic core message about the hobby's value beyond machines
“Stern Pinball, are they fighting for survival? Do they need to bleed us every opportunity they get? Do they need to lie to us about an item being exclusive?”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Direct criticism of Stern's business practices and exclusivity misrepresentation
“They do it because we allow them to. I remember when Stern looked at this and they're like, we're going to make a premium, right, to sell the LEs. Then they sold the LEs and then they made the premium.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Critique of Stern's strategy to maximize revenue through deceptive product tiers
“Part of me is just like, I really wish at these prices and all of these companies, with all of the money that's out there, just freaking be honest with your customers.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Core complaint about manufacturer honesty and customer trust
“Both Chicago Gaming Company and Jersey Jack Pinball have made thousands of pinball machines, thousands of machines... they always get it done. But they also are two companies that have established credibility.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Defense of Chicago Gaming and JJP against comparisons to Haggis, emphasizing track record
“Jersey Jack, you know what happens when you have three strikes in a row? You know the metaphor guys. You're out.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Warning to JJP about failing titles (Toy Story, Godfather) and consequences
“I think Venom is going to be visually stunning. I think it's going to be sexy. I think it really speaks to the strengths of Zombie Yeti's art style.”
Kaneda @ mid-episode — Prediction about Venom's artistic quality and design
“The definition of patience is that you don't lose it at the 11th hour when you need it most.”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyKanedaperson Venomgame Zombie Yetiperson Brian Eddyperson Dwight Sullivanperson Todd McFarlanepersonDerekperson

Signals

?
product_strategy: Stern announced James Bond LE exclusive toppers and shooter knobs as exclusive, then opened them to wider market, breaking customer trust
high · Kaneda: 'they're going to lie to us about an item being exclusive and then opening it up for everybody to buy'
?
product_strategy: Stern strategy of selling LEs first, then releasing Premium tier later to maximize revenue from same customer base
high · Kaneda: 'Stern looked at this and they're like, we're going to make a premium, right, to sell the LEs. Then they sold the LEs and then they made the premium.'
?
product_concern: Haggis Pinball announcing new games while unable to complete half of existing production, raising concerns about business model sustainability
high · Kaneda: 'company that's going to announce a new title before they've even finished making half of their other games'
?
supply_chain_signal: Jersey Jack Godfather CE deliveries delayed 4-5 months; customers waiting longer than for LE, impacting sales momentum
high · Kaneda: 'Making Jersey Jack Pinball customers wait four or five months for the freaking CE of the game is a colossal mistake'
?
product_concern: Pinball Brothers Queen game has poorly positioned plaque below coin door that appears out of balance aesthetically
high · Kaneda: 'Do you know where they put the plaque on this game? It's like, are you serious? Man, you know, it's in this weird place below the coin door to the right. It just looks horrible.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.074

0:00

Welcome everybody to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast Episode 820 coming at you from New York City. It is July 6th. Now look, on like July 20th, we're going to get Comic Con. We're going to get Stern Pinball's next game. It's going to be Venom. I've been saying it's going to be Venom now for like three years. Remember, I was the one who told you it was going to be Venom in the first place. People forget this, but it doesn't really matter. Now we are on the eve of a new Stern machine. We're going to talk about that. I'm going to talk about what I think Venom's going to do to the pinball world when it drops. No, I have not seen it, but I'm going to speculate because it's always fun to speculate. And let's face it, leading up to every new pin coming out is really exciting. What's not really exciting is if you want to buy it and then you have to fork over so much money. I think a lot of you are starting to realize that pinball can be a very fun spectator sport. Like you don't have to run in and buy everything and you can still get all of the enjoyment this hobby has to offer. And I know I say this a lot and I talk about these companies and I talk about the games and the layouts and the value of pinball. And I mean it when I say this ladies and gentlemen, the most valuable thing in this hobby, it's not the games themselves. It's not the artwork. It's not the code. It's not the final wizard mode in Pirates of the Caribbean that you're never going to see even though you're still crying for it. It's not Keith Elwin. It's not George Gomez. It's not any of that. The most valuable thing in pinball is the community it creates. If you look at society today, the number one thing people are craving for, the number one thing people are missing is a sense of community, a sense of belonging, and that's what pinball brings. And once you buy a pinball machine, you're sort of like in the club. You're in the club even more. Once you read Pinside, you know what's going on in pinball. Once you read Naps Arcade every week, you know about all the news, rumors, and speculations. And then once you listen to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, you get the most entertaining objective pinball podcast that has ever hit the airwaves on planet Earth. So thank you for being here. But that sense of community is everything. I've met some of my best friends through pinball. My best friend, the guy who picks up the phone every day, Derek, he's listening right now in freaking Texas. Derek, you know I love you brother. Thank you for picking up the phone. No, I would not have bought a Godfather new in box LE for $12,000. And this is it. This is why I love this hobby. Even though we meet some of our best friends, it doesn't mean they take our advice. I told him, wait two weeks and you will save $2,000 and he would have but he didn't listen to me. But anyway, I love all the people we meet through this hobby and it's great. So let's talk about what's going on. Let's talk about what happened with Haggis News. Let's talk about the James Bond accessories that hit the world today. Let's talk about what's next, what's right around the corner. And I also want to address something that I heard from some of my fans and some of my club members. So when I was ragging on Haggis yesterday, right, and I still don't apologize for ragging on a company that's going to announce a new title before they've even finished making half of their fathoms. Why would they do this? I still would love for somebody to email me other than the answer they need the money, why would they announce this game now? There's no contractual obligation where they need to get the game out before an anniversary or anything. So why are they revealing the game now? And I also want to say this to everybody out there who listens to this show. Whether you love Kaneda or hate Kaneda, whether you love Haggis or don't love Haggis, whether you love pinball or don't love pinball, I think all of us as a The Pinball Community. We need to start opening our eyes to some of these business practices. When was the last time you saw a company do this? Announce a new game, take money on the new game before they've even finished building half of their other games. And the only way this would make sense, the only way this would work, you know, if it was a company like Stern or somebody else, but the only way this would work is if we knew and we felt good that this company had two lines of manufacturing going. And it would make total sense. You can build Fathoms online number one and you can build Centaur online number two. But they didn't say that. They didn't tell you how many people they have working there. None of that has been disclosed. Okay? Your safest bet if you want to get one is you probably want to order through Flippin' Out because as I learned yesterday, they will take your deposit but they're not sending the money on to Haggis. And if anything goes wrong with Haggis, you get your money back. So that's the safest bet if you want to go in on this game. But it's also like a strange situation when you just think www.alterpinchell.com Everyone parks their penumb judiciary! I got a couple of my fans reached out to me and said basically the following thing. They're like, if you did what you did to Haggis, to Jersey Jack Pinball, I believe it was Bond said that about Jersey Jack, not James Bond, but my listener Bond. He said that about Jersey Jack, that I should give Jersey Jack just as much grief as I gave Haggis Pinball. He said, there's no real differences between the two boutique companies. JJP just does make their games a little faster but not by much Alright I gonna talk about that Bon because if you gonna say something like this and you gonna try to compare Jersey Jack Pinball to freakin Haggis that is ridiculous I also had somebody say, how can you give Haggis Pinball grief for taking a year to get the game on the line and then you're not gonna give grief to Chicago Gaming Company and Pulp Fiction, which is a game that's not gonna go on the line until a year after they revealed it? And that's another thing. Are you really going to tell me that both Jersey Jack Pinball and Chicago Gaminging Company can even be compared to Haggis Pinball within a country mile? Are you kidding me? Both Chicago Gaminging Company and Jersey Jack Pinball have made thousands of pinball machines, thousands of machines. They have also never told anybody you're going to have your game. Well, maybe they did with Cactus Canyon, but they always get it done. But they also are two companies The only company I would compare Haggis to is біль funicוסneexperts.com

8:22

Take horse note for you toanç Trailer ividad峙** key word�� fonek preview colocaps So, if they only made 500 toppers, what's gonna happen now? If you didn't get one on day one, congratulations! People are gonna start flipping them, not for $2,000. No, that was like 2021 behavior. It's 2023 now. People are gonna flip these things for freaking $3,000 if you want one, they're gonna try to create that FOMO. It's getting kind of sad, you know, all of this. Like why can't Stern just make more toppers? Why can't they just be truthful about something being exclusive? I want to stay on this for a minute. If they gave you their word that this was going to be an exclusive item to this machine, to this $20,000 James Bond 60th, that's what they said. And I get it. They flubbed on the topper and now they're doing the same thing with the shooter knob. And I just don't know what's up with pinball. Like why can't we take these pinball companies at face value? Why can't we trust them when they give us their word on it? Darren He knows he can't do it in eight weeks, but he's just trying to keep his company alive. I can almost empathize and give a guy a break because I know he's fighting for survival. All right, but Stern Pinball, are they fighting for survival? Do they need to bleed us every opportunity they get? Do they need to lie to us about an item being exclusive and then opening it up for everybody to buy? A company that's making tens of millions of dollars a year, Holay oldies! We literally are letting dance horrible creative can't as a streaming industry allows landscape models because they like us. I'm going to make a premium, right, to sell the L.E.s. Then they sold the L.E.s. and then they made the premium. And I get it. There's always more money to be put on the table. Think about a company like Spooky Pinball. They are leaving millions, and I mean this, millions of dollars on the table because they said they were never going to make more than 750 Rick and Morty games. Never. We're never going to make more. You can easily make another 750 brand new Rick and Mortys, but they said they would never do it, and they haven't done it, and they're not going to do it. Part of me is just like, I really wish at these prices and all of these companies, with all of the money that's out there, just freaking be honest with your customers. You know, remember when David Fix was like, oh, we're only going to make 300 Legends of Valhalla, sort of like L.E. deluxe editions, right? And then he sold those 300 and he used that promise that they were only making 300 And then he like oh yeah due to demand we bumped up the number to 600 or something silly like that I mean that not how it supposed to work David You not supposed to say something So people believe you. And because they believed you, you got some sales and then you realized how popular it was. And then you go back on your word. I mean, we've seen this time and time and time again. And I'm not even covering off on the companies that have blatantly lied to us from day one, like Deep Root Pinball and companies Do you want to know the win? besiegers can take part in a oportunidad draw Wooo-hoo, or a bonus event in a Rock Comedy, or SoftBank store with interesed parties, services matchingwithWifegames, NoIS isn't tentatively an opportunity for tourists to be hindered when needed, but maybe there are some other opportunities where it might also make use of the possible falando community of the Afgcoicz team. D333 wrestling I've been banned from pinside for eight freaking years, people. Eight years I've been banned from pinside. I was a young man when I started on that site. I think I've matured just a little bit. Im podr 그� Paddy Sanagrara D ic a3 010226 Gard alici wt r уч e7009Ru сч y lok bndi gartgeli naクанay . Chi questo a M8 d mħi 273dxasixisie oN nkau'pfenc,s I'm happy six months after buying something it finally works properly. I'm really happy for you. Alright, so look Stern's gonna be in good shape. Let's talk about venom real quick. Do I think venom is gonna be a juggernaut hit for Stern Pinball? Now look, it's not a triple-A theme, but it's got Brian Eddy, Zombie Eddy, it's probably gonna be Dwight Sullivan, the code is probably gonna be comic book style, right? It's gonna feel like you're playing a comic book, Or maybe it might look more like Deadpool. You're definitely not going to see the Venom movie. I know some people still think that it's not going to be based on that. Ozzy Osbourne music is in this game and Todd McFarlane made this game with Stern. I think this game is going to be visually stunning. I think it's going to be sexy. I think it really speaks to the strengths of Zombie Yeti's art style. And I think it's a Stern machine. Now here's the thing. How many Sterns in a row can you drop 13,000 on? for get him out of the City. n The different themes for pinball and so that's how Stern looks at all this like they don't really care because all they need to do is Hook comic book geeks hook fans of venom and hook enough of you pinball Fanatics out there that just want to get everything new and they love having a world where theme doesn't matter Trust me Stern loves it if they can just addict you to great pinball gameplay and And sexy artwork jätte JessicaR 나 PWł motifnię accomplish Rafijan collaborate mainten trong FX acquaintanceStory Hzฉ்כฤ׳uction parenthesis textbook nasks stoγ�을 vg Easter N shooko´kiš winner I expect Venom. Here's my prediction of Venom. I think Venom is going to have a singular major mechanism. I think it's going to be Venom's head. I think that's going to take up the primary real estate in this game. I don't think there's going to be an upper playfield or a lower playfield. I think the artwork is going to be sexy, but I'm really interested to see how many toys are in this game. I hope there are a lot of toys in this game, and I think the voice acting and the music is going to be really cool, and I think it's going to be a lot like Deadpool. I really do. I think it might be a little bit of a slower burn. I don't think venom sells out day one. That's my prediction. I don't think it's going to sell out day freaking one. I think people are starting to slow down a little bit. Now look, I think it's probably going to sell out within a week or two, but at these prices, things just aren't going to move as quickly as they normally do. I don't know. Like even as I say it, like is venom more popular than foo fighters to the pinball buying demographic? I don't really know. I really don't know. So we got venom coming from Stern. In two weeks we're going to talk all about it. It's going to take over. Anything happening over at American Pinball, we know that American Pinball, this is funny, I saw this on Naps Arcade, American Pinball is starting to manufacture more of its LEs and then they are ramping up production to start manufacturing on the signature edition of its game. The signature one is the $17,500 game. Only thing is this, that's the same game as the LE. The only difference is the Translite and the Apron and the Thermos and the Lunchbox. So I don't know if you're making LEs, aren't you just kind of just putting something different on the backbox and then screwing on a different apron? They kind of made it sound like it's a whole different production that goes into that freaking $17,500 edition of the game. I don know I really don know what next for American Pinball but let me read you something So you know I have sources all over the place I know these days it seems like Jason Knapp is the only one who got news rumors and speculations but I got my own sources out there I want to give you some rumors my source heard over the weekend Are you ready for it? And it starts out with American Pinball. It starts off with Ryan's next game. He said that it is based on a video game cartoon from the 80s, 90s, and the person says they think it might be a flop. Okay, well that's too strident. I shouldn't read what my source is saying when it comes to like the outcome of a game because I think sticking a fork in a game before we even see it isn't a wise move. The only game I would stick a fork in before seeing it is Forky and Toy Story 4. Then it goes on to say this, Nordman has two games ready that they are not making because the bomb would be insane. He has a Whitewater sequel that has six to 10 huge ramps in the game. So you heard it here Dennis Norman still working on stuff But that's a really interesting thing is like getting the bomb where it needs to be because it's gonna get into my next rumor I heard so I'm hearing that Steve Ritchie might be having some back-and-forth with Jersey Jack management over the bomb on the game because Jack told Steve if you come over here You're gonna have free reign over the games P lips Passover Sachin Jayane, Frank Fe deficiency and czy痛 request Stone Apparently the The Steve Ritchie JerseyJackGame needs to blow everybody away. If it comes out and it's kind of barren and empty like Toy Story and Godfather, it's not going to cut it. And Jersey Jack, you know what happens when you have three strikes in a row? You know the metaphor guys. You're out. This is it. And I think we're going to see it this year, but this rumor has me a little bit worried. I wonder if they are yanking stuff out. I think Jersey Jack needs to go the other direction. They need to be putting more stuff in. It's that simple. You got to put more stuff in the game. You got to think about going back to wide bodies. You got to think about upper playfields. You got to think about toys you can bash. You got to start thinking about a lot more in the game that brings the world to life. I really hope it's not Elton John because there's only so much you can do with a music pin. I don't want to see a crocodile rocking out on a playfield. I want to see the matrix. I want to see Top Gun. I want to see that aircraft carrier. You know, there was another stream of Godfather last night. And look, you know, everyone's just waiting on these Godfather CEs. They've waited too long. It's time they get these games into customer hands. Making Jersey Jack Pinball customers wait four or five months for the freaking CE of the game is a colossal mistake. There's no pro to be made. There's no reason why they're doing this. The more they delay, because remember they sold more CEs than LEs, which is crazy. The more they delay getting this game out there, the more they're going to delay jump starting sales for this game. They need people to be able to play one of these games. I think like 80 to 90% of the pinball community has never played a Godfather. And if you've played it, you played it at a show and you didn't have a great experience. They need to get more of these games out. And a lot of consumers are waiting for the CE. What is the holdup? Did you see this Pinball Brothers picture of the Queen game? Do you see where they put the plaque on this game? It's like, are you serious? Man, you know, it's in this weird place below the coin door to the right. It just looks horrible. I know people say, Kaneda, they just did it because they want to give you something to complain about. Well, thank you so much PinballBrothers for spending years making a game and then you can't figure out where to put a plaque. You can find a good place to put a plaque, don't put it on the game. Don't screw it into the game. Don't make it look ridiculous. There is something called balance and weight and design. Like any graphic Designer designer. Any creative designer would have looked at the front of that game and say do not put the plaque there. Just stick it on the freaking coin door. All right everybody. Thank you for being a member of the Kaneda Club. I hope you guys are doing well. This community is where the real value is at! If you wait and see, you'll be able to get games for a better price. You don't have to rush and buy everything on day one. Now look, sometimes you do have to rush. When it comes to a James Bond topper that sells out instantly, of course, you got to be ready. But for the most part, I would say like 85% of the time, if you just wait and see, it will be to your benefit. And then when you go buy a game, you're still going to buy the game from a distributor. You're still going to buy it from a manufacturer. majorkget I'm a Derek the definition of patience is that you don't lose it at the 11th hour when you need it most you gotta stay patient once you become impatient then it's over everybody thank you so much for being a member we'll talk to you soon later