Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Ep 139: Soft Ball Accessories

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 36m·analyzed·Jun 13, 2024
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Loser Kid analyzes Stern's Jaws accessories; Scott criticizes topper design vs CGC quality.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss Stern's new Jaws accessory lineup revealed in a sizzle reel, including side armor, inner art blades, shooter rod, speaker lights, and a topper. They provide detailed comparisons to existing aftermarket and licensed accessories from other games (Godzilla, Rush, Medieval Madness, etc.), analyzing value, design quality, and engineering considerations. A significant discussion emerges about topper pricing and construction quality, with Scott critiquing Stern toppers as cheaper-feeling compared to Chicago Gaming Company (CGC) products at similar price points.

Key Claims

  • Dwight Sullivan hosts a game show event at Pinball Expo every year (Let's Make a Deal format), with immaculate prizes including toppers

    high confidence · Josh Roop discussing his experience at Pinball Expo

  • The Jaws LE does not have a Jaws logo on the side armor, but the black aftermarket armor does

    high confidence · Josh and Scott verified this by looking up the LE on PinSide during the episode

  • Aftermarket shooter rods are typically heavier than original rods and don't work well with the factory spring, affecting ball throw distance

    high confidence · Josh discussing his experience with the Avengers Infinity Quest egg shooter and Rush cupcake shooter

  • Jaws shooter rod is priced at $150, while Rush is $140 and Avengers Infinity Quest was $180

    high confidence · Scott looked up current Stern website and Flippin' Out pricing during the episode

  • Godzilla topper uses the same action figure as appears in the game itself

    high confidence · Josh stating this observation while discussing topper construction

  • CGC toppers (Chicago Gaming Company) show more effort and quality construction than Stern toppers at similar price points

    medium confidence · Scott's extended analysis comparing topper build quality and materials between manufacturers

  • The Jaws side armor costs $250

    high confidence · Direct pricing discussion during accessory segment

  • Speaker lights for Jaws cost $200

    high confidence · Scott and Josh pricing discussion

  • Inner art blades for Jaws cost $100

    high confidence · Direct pricing mentioned during accessories review

  • George Gomez discussed how manufacturing costs vary significantly based on order quantity (e.g., 1000 units vs 200 units)

Notable Quotes

  • “you miss 100% of the shots you don't take”

    Josh Roop @ ~5:30 — Referencing Wayne Gretzky quote to explain why it's okay to ask; used in context of asking Dwight Sullivan for help with Pinball Expo event

  • “it feels like a Walmart end cap that is over some DVDs that are selling”

    Scott Larson @ ~47:00 — Critical comparison of Stern topper design philosophy vs CGC toppers; reflects on perceived lack of quality materials in Stern accessories

  • “throw lights at it throw lights at it”

    Scott Larson @ ~46:30 — Sarcastic commentary on Stern's approach to making toppers look better by adding lighting effects to compensate for basic construction

  • “knowing which bolt to tighten $10,000”

    Josh Roop @ ~20:45 — Apocryphal story about technician billing to explain value of expertise and knowledge in pricing services

  • “it doesn't feel that the mechanical considerations are going into the shooter rod the way it should be”

    Josh Roop @ ~29:00 — Technical criticism of aftermarket shooter rods not accounting for conservation of momentum and spring compatibility

  • “everybody can look at the CGC toppers and say there was effort there”

    Scott Larson @ ~45:00 — Contrasting CGC's apparent design rigor with Stern's approach to topper quality

  • “Doug Duba is arguably very OCD when it comes to his product”

    Scott Larson @ ~45:15 — Characterizing Chicago Gaming Company's attention to detail and quality control standards

  • “now they have tried to disguise it a little bit by putting fancy lights in it”

    Scott Larson @ ~46:45 — Suggests Stern uses lighting effects as a distraction from fundamental design/material choices in toppers

  • “you're going to be tired of playing pinball”

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyJawsgameChicago Gaming Company (CGC)companyJosh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonZach MinneypersonGreg Boneperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern released a two-minute sizzle reel revealing new Jaws accessories: shooter rod, inner art blades, topper, speaker lights, and side armor

    high · Josh and Scott discuss the video reveal and provide detailed pricing/specs for all items

  • ?

    product_concern: Aftermarket shooter rods are typically heavier than OEM versions and don't compensate for spring compatibility, resulting in poor ball throw distance

    high · Josh detailed experience with Avengers Infinity Quest egg shooter and Rush cupcake shooter; notes lack of play testing

  • $

    market_signal: Stern Jaws topper priced at $1,500 despite similar visual quality to CGC Black Knight Sword of Rage at $450; suggests potential overpricing or market segmentation

    high · Scott's extended analysis comparing topper pricing and construction across manufacturers

  • ?

    design_innovation: Jaws features new interactive speaker light system that ties into fish finder gameplay elements (radar, blood effects)

    high · Josh describes system as 'brilliant idea' and notes it's universal across games going forward

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Criticism of Stern's accessory design philosophy as using lighting effects to distract from basic/economical construction; positioned as inferior to CGC's design rigor

    medium · Scott's extended commentary about toppers looking like 'Walmart end caps' and Stern 'throwing lights at' products to disguise material shortcomings

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.289

0:00
thanks for tuning into loser kid pinball podcast we are on episode 139 with me my co-captain as always scott larson and i am josh roop and scott before we get talking about the wide array of notes that i've jotted down for our wonderful episode why don't you tell us about our sponsor well so there's flipping out pinball so if you want those new jaws accessories if you really If you're a completionist and you need to have every single thing for your Jaws, then go ahead and – they have armor kit. They have the topper, which we'll talk about, and the side art, the internal art, the holographic image that has Jaws coming out and eating you. If – just ask Zach about it. He'll set something up. So go ahead and contact Zach and Nicole, many a flipping out pinball, and they will hook you up. I want to give a quick shout-out to their technician, Greg Bone. Yeah. had some issues with jaws and it was as simple as like just leave the game on for like five or six hours it was this like as you're playing it says sd card validation error or something like that oh and so he's like yeah just leave your game on for like five or six hours turn it off and then play it again see if that does it if not swap out the card if not then we'll go further and it was cool because like i did that and then i forgot that i'd done that and then he followed up he was like yeah he's like hey tell me about it yeah so like i love customer service like that like they're making sure you're getting taken care of yeah so just a shout out to greg so yeah greg greg's a good guy so everyone is down there okay so before we get going okay well may this is part of getting going we obviously we did the stern tour right we did yeah and i feel bad because no one's really maybe someone's talked about this maybe triple dream uh but at the end of the tour dwight sullivan pulled us aside and he said it would be a huge favor to me if you tell people if you're coming to expo this year go to dewight's he does he does a game show every year and last year wasn't it saturday that did he say it was saturday it's saturday it's always like the last one on saturday and it's a game show and like a couple years ago it was like family feud style this one is let's make a deal he did it last year and they give away immaculate prices they gave away a freaking mando topper this last this last yeah yeah no dwight's a good guy and he okay if you if you question anything about dwight's commitment to pinball and his enthusiasm then go to this because you will see he does not hold back he is all in and he's super excited about everything and it's just funny to me because dwight's like a really really lovable guy like if If you don't know him on a personal level, go to Pinball Expo, get to meet the man, buy him a cookie, and he'll love you for the rest of your life. It's funny because I did the Let's Make a Deal, right? And I ended up with some extra tickets, but I didn't have enough to get the banner or something like that. And I just went to Dwight. I was like, Dwight, come on, dude. I'm like five ticket shorts or whatever. Please, sir. And he's like, no, no ticket, no banner. No passing. and it's funny because i just thought i'm the kind of guy like what's the worst that's going to happen if you ask they're going to say no you know i'm saying so okay you said no cool so i walked off dwight comes up to me at the stern tower he's like josh i just i want to tell you i'm really sorry about telling you no oh that's right dwight you're good he's like oh that makes my heart feel better and i was like you were worried about that with me like i was just i I just asked you.

high confidence · Josh referencing a prior interview with Gomez on their podcast

Josh Roop @ ~8:30 — Promoting Dwight Sullivan's Let's Make a Deal game show as a good break from extended pinball play at Expo

  • “It's fun. That's the only side armor I've ever bought is for the Deadpool.”

    Josh Roop @ ~15:00 — Acknowledges side armor accessories as luxury/fun purchases rather than necessary upgrades

    • Dwight Sullivan
    person
    Godzillagame
    Rushgame
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Avengers Infinity Questgame
    Attack from Marsgame
    George Gomezperson
    Doug Dubaperson
    Deadpoolgame
    Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
    John Wickgame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Ellenperson
    ?

    product_strategy: Stern pricing shooter rods variably ($140-$180 across games); Jaws rod at $150 represents lower price point than Avengers ($180) or Rush ($140)

    high · Scott cross-checked pricing on Stern website and Flippin' Out during episode

  • ?

    content_signal: Flippin' Out Pinball (owned by Zach Minney) serves as sponsor for Loser Kid Pinball Podcast and distributor of Jaws accessories

    high · Opening sponsor segment featuring Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Dwight Sullivan at Stern organizes annual Pinball Expo game show (Let's Make a Deal format) as experiential event separate from gameplay

    high · Josh's firsthand account of attendance and Stern tour request to promote event

  • ?

    collector_signal: Josh purchased Rush shooter rod ($140 cupcake) despite acknowledging it worsens gameplay, motivated by completionist urge and owning LE/topper already

    high · Josh's direct statement: 'I bought that really to be a completionist'

  • ?

    product_concern: Godzilla topper looks impressive when lit but appears plain when off; tanks are 2D planar elements; overall construction feels cheaper than appearance suggests

    high · Scott's detailed examination of Godzilla vs Jurassic Park vs Attack from Mars toppers for construction quality

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Manufacturing cost and pricing varies significantly based on order quantity (1,000 units vs 200 units per George Gomez)

    high · Josh references prior interview with George Gomez on podcast about manufacturing economics

  • ?

    community_signal: Greg Bone at Flippin' Out Pinball received praise for proactive customer service on Jaws SD card validation error resolution

    high · Josh's personal experience with SD card issue and Greg following up post-resolution

    • 3:39
    I'm pretty sure this is a Wayne Gretzky quote, where he's, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Exactly. So, you know, the bottom line is they can always say no. But no, he's a good guy. Yeah, and people don't get offended if they have to say no. You know what I'm saying? So definitely go to Let's Make a Deal. He definitely makes it entertaining and worthwhile. And to be blunt, you're going to be tired of playing pinball. And so go in and take a little decompression game show. It was pretty fun. I think Dwight purposely didn't pick me. And I was saying some pretty random stuff. Because that's the thing. They come into the audience. He's like, he picks people from the audience, right? And so if you dress up, it gives you a better chance. You know, there's just different things. And Ellen and I were sitting there and we were joking back and forth about some stuff. but i think at one point there he asked like tell me something unique or interesting about yourself and i just yelled out the first thing that came to my mind i was like i've got a third nipple do you no yes no maybe oh okay and dwight must have heard me because he went to a turn i think he saw the me out the corner of his eye and then he turned back like yeah i'm not acknowledging that okay all right i i didn't know about your triple but okay yeah my third pearl yeah i didn't know it either till after i got married and my wife works at the ob and and explained she's like okay if you have like a mole that's on your nipple line that's actually a high possibility it's not it's not functional just so you know no no it's not it yeah okay we're we're moving on okay you brought it up you brought it up bring it up i did i'm gonna regret this for the rest of my life yep which side is on left right i can't remember i think the left I don't know. Okay. All right. As he checks himself. It's tiny. It's seriously, I thought it was, I thought it was like a freckle for the most part of my life. Just like, all right. You know what I'm saying? Okay. Anyhow. Meanwhile, let's talk about the thing that everyone's is ranting and raving about right now. Okay. Jaws accessories. Okay.
    5:45
    So what these revealed yesterday, there was a two minute sizzle reel. Yep. Uh, what they show the shooter rod in our art blades, top, uh, speaker lights. and they showed side armor side armor yes uh which is pretty much the le but in black instead of white yeah okay which is great okay okay what are your what's your initial thoughts scott okay um i'm gonna save the topper for last because i think that's where we're going to get a lot of our juice okay yes yep uh i'm i'm a little okay i actually do like that the side armor is similar to the le yep i do like that because in many ways it feels i i've never understood this but like on godzilla le okay okay you see the side armor and then you see the le and you're and you're asking yourself why didn't the le have this side armor because it's cooler you think this is cooler than the white no no no but what i'm saying is this is similar like you know it has the bite out of it It gives a little bit – so it looks cool, but it doesn't upstage the LE. I think the LE is great. And the bottom line is if you want to powder coat that and make it white. But this one also has the Jaws logo in it, right? Yep. So does the LE have that? We really should have done our research. Okay. No, legitimately. I don't remember seeing the LE having that.
    7:25
    I don't remember it either. Because that's the thing that jumped out at me. What jumped out at me is that it was like, oh, that's interesting that there's even like something a little like more custom on that. Yeah. So that surprised me a little bit. But I don't think it's a huge deal.
    7:46
    And so that was my question. Is there a big enough difference on this? I think so. I mean, the one they keep showing it on is the premium, and I think it looks really great with the blue. Sure. And with Brody harpooning Bruce. Yeah.
    8:09
    No, I agree with you. I feel like this one pops more than the white. Yeah. Yeah, it's – but it's – so that's the only thing that really surprises me because in some ways when you have the LE, you kind of expect that you're going to have the best version of everything, right? Well – So that's what surprised me a little bit about Godzilla is that the King Ghidorah, is that what it – Yeah. Yeah, it has that – The three-headed, like the hybrid? It looks really cool on the side armor, but it doesn't seem to have that same pop on the LE. So I was wondering, now having a Jaws logo, is that a big deal or is it kind of hit or miss? I didn't think that was as much of a big deal. So I just pulled up the LE on pin side, and you're right. It doesn't have the Jaws logo. It doesn't have it. Yep, that's what I thought. But then again, on the side art, you've got a massive logo that says Jaws right below the bike. Yeah, so would it be like the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles top or where it has turtles turtles? Yeah, it probably would have.
    9:16
    Yeah. So, at least on the premium, you don't have Jaws on the side. It's literally just Brody fighting the shark. Okay. So, ta-da. Okay. All right. So, there's that. I think I agree with you on this. I personally do like the black better, but I do think the white pops really well on the Ellie because of the way that it's a lot of blue. And so there's – yeah. I think – honestly, I think the LE art was kind of done around the white trim. Yeah, but didn't Michael also say it was kind of from an underneath, like an under-the-sea view? Yeah, yep. So it makes sense to do it that way.
    9:56
    So I think it's nice. It doesn't feel like it's upstaging the LE, but it does give a different option. $250. Is that too much or just right? uh if you powder coat a game how much does it cost i don't know i've never power coded 300 bucks it's okay so if you go to the effort yourself to take all your take all your armor off and you have to take it in powder coat it so if you are upgrading the look of your game for about 300 bucks to you know so shipping with tax or whatever that's about right yeah it's it is totally a luxury purchase there is no need to buy these unless you really like the look of them yeah uh but they are kind of fun like i got i got the um the b arthur katanas for deadpool nice and it's just a very small thing um it's a way of of accessorizing if you want to do that i don't think it's required for this one but you do notice it especially with the shark bite on it Yeah, definitely. There are people even selling like aftermarket, you know, basically knockoff side armor with the bite out of it. Yeah. And I bet those are 150 or something like that. Yeah. So for an officially licensed product. Right. You're not doing too bad. Yeah.
    11:23
    It's fun. That's the only side armor I've ever bought is for the Deadpool. But I'm glad I have it. But Deadpool is one of those games where I really don't think I'll sell it because it is a fast, fun, short game. Yes, it really is. It's a good game.
    11:40
    All right, let's move on. I would say thumbs up, good price. Okay. Inner Art Blades. If you've listened to this podcast before, I assume you have. I'm not a huge fan of Inner Art Blades. They're good. I like Art Blades. I'm an Art Blade guy. I'll let you say your piece and then I'll tell you why you're wrong I do like that it adds more ambiance to the game I will give it that I just think that Mirror Blades gives more pop to a game and I just haven't felt like there's a game where the Art Blades are better than the Mirror Blades for the game that's just me I had Mirror Blades on Iron Man and the Mirror Blades looked really good you have them on your Attack from Mars maybe not your Medieval Madness no, Medieval Madness I don't I actually still have the black on my Medieval Madness. Okay.
    12:31
    I'm looking over there. Cactus Canyon has the side art, has the inner art because it came with it. And I believe that's Mirror Blades on Monster Bash. Yes. Yep. So I do like inner art because it feels, when I put them on my Spider-Man, it really made the game stand out because it felt like you were entering Spider-Man's world because it had the buildings on both sides and it looked really cool. So I do like that. And I also like that they made it environmental. Yeah. So that was my issue with Mandalorian because Mandalorian, the blades that they're selling, and usually they're selling something that's different than the LE, right? That's the whole point of an LE is you get something exclusive that is not available to other people.
    13:29
    Usually it's comparable, though. So, you know, for like Turtles, the Inner Blades were comparable to the LE. They weren't the same, but they were comparable. I didn't like Mandalorian where it had the faces. I thought that looked weird. It didn't feel environmental. It felt like, hey, here's a billboard for faces of Mandalorian characters. um so i do like these uh because they do have that um that sea look and it flows with the with the play field because the play field is is an ocean and really if you're looking for a visual impact a hundred bucks yeah right it's a pretty cheap upgrade yeah yeah yeah it's a cheap upgrade for that relatively i know this is all subjective right like okay but a hundred dollars is not i that is not unreasonable it's sorry it's just funny because it reminds me of a story at work i fixed like someone's air conditioner it was like 95 bucks with the part and everything i was pretty proud sure they're like so what is my cost and i was like you got out relatively cheap it was 95 bucks and they looked at me in the home or says man you must wipe your butt with hundred dollar bills it's like no no i do not yeah no it's 95 bucks is expensive to me and i was like oh okay well i mean you and this is an apocryphal story but it's told in various forms right where a person takes in their car or you know a nuclear sub or whatever whatever it is like it's making this funny sound i don't know what's going on so they call the technician technician comes in looks at it and pulls out um you know pulls out a hammer or a wrench or whatever and like gets in there for five minutes turns a few things and then says okay that'll be you know ten thousand dollars or whatever the money is yeah yeah he's like oh my gosh that's stupid i could do that and he's like i want an itemized bill he's like okay and so so he itemized it you know the technician he or she and says uh you know turning screw or tightening bolt $5, knowing which bolt to tighten $10,000. You know, it's, it's, it's kind of along those lines. I mean, and, and I've used this, uh, I've joked around cause there's a lot of times in my job where I'm watching surgeries happen. I, I, yeah, there's a little more of the beginning, a little more of the end, but for the most part I'm there. And I, I was joking about that with one of the surgeons and the surgeon said, actually, you're not compensated for what you do you're more compensated for what you know because if something happens then you spring into action you can say and you can do something so it's it's similar to if i hire a heating and air conditioning person that comes over and they fix something in two minutes great because i didn't have to spend five hours trying to figure out what it was yep i agree all right let's let's move on to the shooter rod okay you're grabbing a barrel and honestly hasn't this been floating around as a as like like mod thinkers have been making this thing yeah yeah okay okay i went uh well i i get okay i'll i'll go first on this i actually don't like the aftermarket shooter rods i i don't um they they feel different they shoot different and i've always been frustrated from an engineering standpoint that there is when you pull back the rod there's a conservation of momentum that when you're moving a mass forward and it hits a silver ball it's going to transfer that momentum to the ball this may be a little deep in the woods but it's stay with us stay with yeah it's really it's really hard to get the same sort of mass in an aftermarket shooter rod because it's usually heavier and they've had problems with this like uh the i bought the the little egg thing for avengers infinity quest and i hate it because it it doesn't it it's too heavy it doesn't actually work with the spring associated with the rod and from an engineering standpoint it frustrates me because you should compensate for that that that that is a an easy play testing To be blunt, I'm pointing now. So I bought the shooter thing for Rush, which is cool because it has the little flash thing. On YouTube, you can actually see it behind me.
    18:01
    The thing is enormous. It's like a hostess cupcake. And if you pull it all the way back, it does not go – the ball does not fly all the way around. now and the skill shots on rush are short plunges anyway so it's not as huge huge of a deal and i only bought it because i wanted to be a completionist for rush because i got the topper i got the le i got that because it's your favorite it brushes right that's that's my band i'm good with that and i the topper actually looks really cool it was kind of expensive but it looks really cool but the shooter rod i bought that really to be a completionist but it is it it's not as good as the original the original is better and avengers infinity quest had the same issue and they i'm not sure why they make these rods that are significantly heavier than what the spring supports and this could be an easy play test like put it in one of your games and just see if it works it it feels like it's fun to get in a little bit so i don't know if this one's going to have the same problem but i typically don't like the feel of aftermarket ones well my question too is i don't know how much of this is being produced at stern i if i and how much of this was outsourced maybe because like this is one thing gomez talked about right on our on our interview with him is like well if they do an order for like a thousand of these they can do cheaper price on the topper but then if they only do an order of 200 of them like the you know because they're they have to get the product from different people and stuff like that so i don't know how much of this is actually manufacturing at scale i mean obviously we we've seen that with if you're making 5 000 games or 100 games you're the car the the bill of material is going to be different so my my question is i wonder if they even do i wonder if this is one of the things where it just gets shipped to Stern in a box and it's ready to go and they just ship it out or if they actually manufacture it in-house. I suspect it's made outside. I think so too. It's a simple question. It's designed by someone who's associated with the license. They ship it out. The person makes the cast of it. But it is a mechanical part. It doesn't feel that the mechanical considerations are going into the shooter rod the way it should be. and that directly interacts with the game. So I intentionally did not buy it for Godzilla. Same here. I don't buy them at all just because of what you just said. They're $150. I feel like they hinder the game instead of enhance the game. I just don't feel like it's a smart investment. Over my other shoulder, though, I'm pointing to the Jurassic Park one, which is really cool looking. It's kind of ridiculous. It is cool looking because it lights up, but really everybody on Jurassic Park is just hitting the button to auto launch it. It's true. Alrighty. The speaker light system, and this is new for Jaws, but I think this is going to go on most games moving forward. It should also go back to some of their previous games, I believe. I hope so. Yeah. I'm going to go first on this one. Go ahead. First off, I think this is a brilliant idea. You know pinball collectors. We like shiny, bright things, and this is shiny, bright. It interacts. I haven't seen this in person yet, but the way that it does the radar and ties in with the actual fish finder in the game, that's really cool. The blood effect, it does that. I just think this is a really cool idea. And the thing I love about this is because it is universal from game to game, I feel like it's going to be more readily available, unlike some of these other products. it's pretty much like like the rush expression lights that i don't even know if they finished making yeah and so that's the thing is like when you make a product where it can be made from game to game like a shaker motor or expression light kit for your speakers i i i think it's a simple way to enhance your game and i mean let's let's be honest like my mod makers have been doing speaker light expression or like they've been doing speaker lights for a little while now so this isn't a shocker but it's cool that it's integrated into the game i think personally me 200 bucks isn't terrible i feel like that's on par with some of the other mod maker speaker kits and you get more interaction with this so i think this is if you're looking for a great addition to your game i think this is this is good bang for the buck what do you think i i okay i do agree by By the way, I did just out of curiosity, I went and looked.
    22:51
    Do you remember how much the shooter rod is for Jaws? I don't. Oh, $150. Okay. Do you know how much it was for Avengers? Not a clue. $180. Oh, really? Okay. So that's interesting that they dropped price on that. Yeah. And actually, I'm looking at Stern's website as we speak. I'm looking at flipping out. Okay. All the pricing there. Your Rush shooter rods there, your cupcake, your light-up cupcake for $140. Yep. Okay. And so the Jaws rod, so that's interesting. There is a little bit of, I don't want to say dynamic pricing, but maybe a special pricing on that. And the – okay, I will say the one – the shooter rod that does look really boss, though, is the Black Knight Sword Rage one. Oh, yeah. It looks cool. It's so metal. It looks really cool, yeah. And so that would be something I would – so case-by-case basis. So I thought that was interesting. And the topper for Avengers Infinity Quest was 750 So that interesting Yeah that interesting Okay speaker lights Yes
    24:10
    Okay, pinball is visual. And part of the reason why you buy something that's above the pro model is usually scratching that visual or that interactive itch. Because what it does is it combines to the experience. I mean, there's a reason why I will typically buy toppers because they do provide extra little cool bling things. And it's you usually don't see it when you're playing the game. But people who are walking down, they see it and they're like, wow, this looks more dressed up than a typical thing. Speaker lights also. I haven't got them for Godzilla. But my question now is, do I get the interactive lights that will come back to Godzilla, or do I get the burning lights? Right? Have you considered either one for your Godzilla?
    25:06
    I haven't. Honestly, I put in the speaker kit, the upgrade. And ever since I did that, I didn't know if I could or not, so I just really haven't pursued it. Okay. Because you wanted better sound on Godzilla. Oh, yeah. I got the pin woofer. Yeah. Amazing. If you're looking for a kid, it's the way to go. Seriously. I'm totally considering that for for Godzilla, because that's you know, that's kind of a forever game. Yeah, it's it's going to be that it already is, but it will be the next medieval madness, except there won't be 3000 of them. They'll be 15000 of them around. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. They'll be making this one for a long time.
    25:49
    Okay, so Jaws. I like it because, again, it's a visual cue, the interaction. And that's what we noticed when we were looking at John Wick between the Pro, the Premium, and the LE. The LE had the expression lights, and it had the speaker lights. And it did make a difference. like you could feel more connection with the game.
    26:16
    This is getting back to the success of Guns N' Roses from Jersey Jack, where it is a show, it's an experience, and this brings that all to a certain game. Yep. I agree. All right, the moment everyone's been waiting for. Oh, we did talk about the price is $200 on the speaker. Yeah, and that's not – okay, really, I'm putting any sort of accessory under $250. It's certainly not a need to have, but they're fun. And if you're buying a machine that's $7,000 to $9,000, really economies of scale, that's not that much.
    27:02
    Okay, let's talk topper. Okay. You want to go first? You want me to? Okay. that didn't sound like a it's it's so frustrating okay it's so frustrating because i'm in we did talk with george gomez about top yes okay and this will get to the end when i actually did bring up when he talked about toppers and prices and i said okay however you did make a really boss topper for $450 with black night sword of rage. Yeah. You're selling the same topper for $1,500. Yeah. Like that is okay. It doesn't cost that much. Like it didn't triple in price. Okay. Now, so you can't see it, but I'm, I'm looking over my computer and that's where my CGC wall is. So I'm looking at your basement. So I know what you're looking at. Yeah. You know exactly where I am. Okay. So I'm looking at, So go with me on this, Josh. I'm looking at the Attack from Mars topper. Yes. Okay. That's awesome. I would say arguably that's the best looking topper ever. Yeah, I would not disagree with you there. And you have the interactive alien. It is really good looking. Okay. You have the Medieval Madness, which doesn't move, but it has lights. It's good. And the sculpt is really cool. Yep. Okay. so you have monster bash which again is similar to the medieval madness topper yeah it's 3d it's beautiful but it's stagnant beautiful yeah it doesn't move okay it does have lights on it yeah then you have the okay then you also have the cactus canyon topper which which is definitely a rival to attack from mars for how cool it is yeah you could even argue that it's but i personally like the attack from mars better but um and then the level of the level of interactivity though to the cactus canyon is just so yeah no no it's a game in itself absolutely and there's a reason why people will will shy away from the sse which is kind of funny because it's it really is the same game um but they want the topper okay yeah um okay the topper for medieval madness when i upgraded so i bought a standard edition medieval madness you know 10 years ago or whatever so when i upgraded to their you know the the the fake royal edition so i got the speaker light i got yeah yep so it that total package cost me um fifteen hundred dollars and you've got more than just a topper you got yeah and the whole whiting here okay and i may get wrong on this but the topper i remember being around six hundred dollars yeah uh some sounds right maybe with inflation it could be eight hundred dollars okay but now i'm looking around at the other toppers that i have in my basement which visually look really good okay so i have beetles which is one of the plastics isn't it it's it's flat plastics and they're on like little springy things so when you shake the games the heads like bounce up and down okay beatles bobbleheads meals bobblehead dolls yeah this is cousin brucey talking right exactly yeah well okay it's like it's like the bobblehead on deadpool right yeah the deadpool okay so you have wizard of odds which came with the game okay so it's right there it is just a sheet of plastic and it has a light okay now you have the rush hopper, which is 3D interactive. However, I will point out it's 3D-ish. Because you have the cutout gears that interact and move, which is a cool look. It also feels a little bit like an upgrade from a 2D one, but it still feels a little bit plainer.
    31:09
    Still haven't bought the Iron Maiden one Partly because I'm wondering. You're holding out? I'm trying to justify the price on that. Yeah, I get you.
    31:20
    Okay, Godzilla. George Gomez even said that they took a lot of crap for Godzilla. Yeah. Okay, let's examine the Godzilla top. It looks cool. It is interactive. There are lights. You can see behind me. You can see Godzilla blowing that plume of smoke and blowing up the tanks. Yeah. Okay? So there's a lot of lighting interaction. Yep. If you look at it for the parts, though, it's the same Godzilla action figure actually in the game. Yeah. Like, literally the same one. And the cloud thing is, yeah, that's... It looks cool when it's on. It looks cool, but it's... It does not look great when it's off. No. Okay, so the cloud thing is 3D injected and molded. But the tanks are, they're 2D. Yeah. And you look at the Jurassic Park topper, and it's cut out 2D planar stuff, okay? Okay, so that's my long-winded analysis to say there's a big... This has been topper talk with Scott for the last five minutes. Okay, okay, but go with me on this, though. Everybody can look at the CGC toppers and say there was effort there. Yeah. Like they put forth their best foot. Like they made sure the toppers looked great. Doug Duba is arguably very OCD when it comes to his product. Okay. And it does show in their product, right? It takes them a long time. But when they come out, they typically are very well made. Yes. The quality is impeccable. The quality is great. Okay. except for the Pulp Fiction that the head was falling off when he played Logan Arcade. But, okay, so the long way I'm telling you this is that I see two equivalent products here. And the price is roughly similar, but it feels obvious that the construction, that the thought process going into visually creating a topper is different for CGC than it has been for Stern. Stern feels very much like a Walmart end cap that is over some DVDs that are selling. Yeah, it kind of does. Right. Now that I say it, you can't unsee it, right? You can't unsee it and so tell me like now they have tried to disguise it a little bit by putting fancy lights in it yeah by making it interactive for every scott everything in pitbull throw lights at it yeah and so it does help the the lights do help it feels a little bit like they're disguising the lack of materials that go into it though so is this leading up to you gonna tell us how you're gonna yeah you feel about this jawstopper now so the amity one okay to be you know when i saw it do you know what i thought i thought it was an lcd screen and that's what i thought too like i thought it was an lcd screen i'm like oh actually so they'll throw they're throwing movie clips up there and that's kind of cool and that's Yeah, you already have the interactive screen in front of you. But having an LCD screen up there, which, by the way, does not cost a lot of money. No. Like putting that LCD screen makes it feel more expensive. Yeah. Then when I found out it was like, oh, it's a lenticular topper. So it's like one of those 3D sticker things that you get where you look at one way and it looks this way and you look at the other way. and and for the person listening i was gonna say lenticular is like art if you have a like if you look at from you angle it from the right it's one way and then if you angle it from the left it's a different way right it's you made them in grade school like where you'd make a fan yeah and then you folded it yeah you folded it and then you yeah and yes so if you look at it from the right side it looks like a young man but you look at it from the right left side and looks like an old you know something like that okay yeah stuff like that so it's kind of an optical it's basically an optical illusion right depending on how you're looking and so on one side it has the welcome to amity on the other side it's actually and by the way i had totally forgotten about this um i i was asking our group group chat with the triple grain guys this morning but like is that like i totally thought that the ah shark you know how people take screen grabs and then use like microsoft paint or whatever and they like draw something on there i totally thought it was a meme yeah yeah i thought it was a meme that someone had done and they said no actually that's in the in the movie and so i actually i thought you were pulling my leg it's like scott really yeah yeah i i totally did not because i haven't seen jaws in you know the last time i saw jaws was seven years ago or so like it was it was re-released in the theater and so i paid and i saw it in the theater but i totally had to space that part because it does look like one of those homemade meme things And another thing too, you don't own Jaws, right? No, I don't. Okay, okay. So you get a pass there as well. Keep going because that plays into what I'm going to say. Okay, yeah, because I have yet to buy Jaws. That's the only L1 aside from the Bond L1 I don't buy.
    36:59
    So it seemed to fall in the same trap as before. It's cut out plastic with lights with an interesting optical effect that kind of disguises that there's not much there.
    37:18
    And for $1,000 – now, $250 and below, you know what? That's – do whatever you want. I actually – I just barely picked down – like I have mods that I haven't installed in my games yet. So the one that I picked up, and I'm going way over time on this. I need to give Josh equal time. I just brought down the Stumbler mod for Godzilla that is the sign, which is really cool looking. It's amazing. Yeah. It's cool looking. That was $250 or whatever it was. Okay.
    37:51
    Would you have bought that thing for $1,000, Josh? You know me in mods. Probably not. Okay. I feel like it's justified more with that. But it's the same thing. It's a 2D thing that makes it look really good with a light show, and you buy it for $250. And it's actually 3D because he does 3D make this stuff. So it takes a 2D thing, converts it to a 3D sign that has all these sides, and it also has an interactive light show. So it was upgraded on all levels and still less than $250. Yeah. Okay. You have a topper that has a plastic sheet that was cut out. And so it's not 3D. It's 2D. But it's disguised as 3D because it has some lights on there. Now, visually from far away, you can get away with it. You can. But when you start looking at a critical eye, you really do feel like they're phoning in their toppers. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm out. I've said my piece. Go ahead. Okay. So I first saw this topper, and I agree with you. The first thing I thought was, oh, this is an LCD screen because that would be really cool.
    39:09
    And then as it went on, I was like, oh, this is lenticular. It's whitewater. Granted, there is some LEDs in the sign, and in the sign, it sounds like it's tied into kind of like the expression light, so it does do sonar and stuff like that. Okay, okay, whatever.
    39:28
    It's the same thing as Ninja Turtles. So I know you don't own Jaws, but right below the topper is the exact same – on the premium side. Let me put that caveat. Okay. Not on the pro, not on the LE, but on the premium, right below this topper. is the exact same sign in the artwork to the right forgot about that and then if you go down past the lcd screen back in the very back the signs there as well and okay so it's theme integrated i'll give it that i will give it 100 that but it becomes it's like how many times can i see the sign and jaws jaws jaws yeah it is and it's definitely integrated into the game as well because you see the sign where like if you your ball drains then all of a sudden like the mayor's fighting with hooper about like the sign needing to be and so you see the sign again like it's i know it's a very pivotal moment in the movie but my only thing is this is the only thing i could think of is like the reason they probably did this is because it had already been pre like this artwork had already been pre-approved a couple of times obviously in the game okay it wasn't that hard to be like we're going to put this on top of the game as well and the license was like go for it you know what i'm saying and that's probably honestly why it got revealed within six yeah okay we're that yeah we're definitely peeking behind the screen and saying okay like we have no interest like we have no inside information on that the thoughts but it rings true doesn't it podcast or the that of the podcast not necessarily of stern pinball not expressed not expressed by the express rate consent of certain pinball yeah okay so i'll give you this okay i'm not a topper fan i just like they're cool don't get me wrong i love the toppers on all my cgcs may that's what ruined me because it came with the game i didn't have to pay extra and they looked freaking amazing like they just they do and so when you're telling me something that doesn't come with my game that's going to cost me this one's a thousand dollars or you know look at uh the the food fighters one just got revealed yeah that one's two thousand dollars i just i that's when i'm like you're a thousand to two thousand dollars towards another game at this point yeah i just i i i just don't want it and and then when you have this come out it's just not it feels uninspired maybe I don't know like I said I will give it credit for it is definitely on theme and it integrates in the game I just like you said I feel like it phones it in a little bit so no shot at anyone it's turn I just it's not okay okay but this is okay we have to look at this right yeah and we have talked about how I used to be an le pinball buyer yeah all day long okay guess what I am now a premium pinball buyer i'm not going to make the the mistake to project my buying habits and my demographics on the entire pinball spectrum because a lot of fans do that yeah a lot of fans say i'm a 49 year old white dude into doc into uh dad rock like why are you doing anything that's not in my demographic i'm like actually because you can't just cater to one demographic and however i am also really on the fence on toppers now like you you have to really wow impress me to to justify the price because once you're in that thousand dollar range you're right you're you're pushing over 10 of a game yeah and it's it doesn't bring 10 of fun it doesn't so i have a couple of thoughts on this as well so i i heard a word today i was listening to another podcast that isn't about pinball shocker okay and you used a word and i texted it to you you're probably why the heck did you just text me that yeah i was i was i was wondering yeah i i didn't want to forget it habituation okay i did not just swear but it if you look at the definition it pretty much just says that we're so used to uh whatever it may be that by time something else comes out in that same genre or whatever you're so desensitized you don't think it's exciting anymore or it's not new anymore okay and so i use this word because i feel like we have habituation in a community if you've been in this hobby for a while now you you definitely have this and you're comparing topper to topper really let's let's take it away and you look at just this topper i know it's hard for us to do because we've seen okay we've been talking we've seen a of toppers yeah if you saw this was the very first topper you've ever seen in your whole life how cool would it actually be and we're going to take price off the table at this point okay would you be excited to see this like if you saw this topper would you be like whoa this is like the coolest and it's hard because like i said we i've been in the hobby for over a decade now and you've been in scott for at least yeah seven years something like that six years i'm over a decade you're over a decade as well i'm over a decade yeah so it's i guess my my statement i'm gonna make right now is we need as a community like i get like being critical of this stuff but honestly are we complacent is that what you're getting at like we're so used to it that it doesn't it no longer no longer wow yeah and if you want to vote then do it with your wallet like that's the best way to do it personally me i feel like like we've just discussed about this i don't think stern actually makes these in-house and really their biggest money maker are the games and so this is more of like a love letter to the community like you want to pimp out your game we're making that stuff for you but it's like no love loss if they don't make a ton of these because really they're just shipping it out to someone else to make them right so yeah anywho that's that's my point i just i i think that we've if it comes down to it in my opinion it's not worth it it's not going on my game if it's if it's as as a mutual friend of ours says don't yuck someone else's yum if this is your yum cool if not yeah and the only thing we can talk about is is it worth it to us as a personal buying thing now i also there are things that i have paid money for that is that would be considered extravagant or i i bought a rush le like sticker price. I didn't get any discount on that. I got sticker price. I paid sticker price for everything. And that was within my wheelhouse. But I know that some people, it's like, no, I'm not going to do that.
    46:13
    But that's what you need to consider, though, is there are going to be overlaps. There are going to be people who will buy things all the time, regardless of price. And there are also going to be people who who they're very price sensitive and even a hundred dollar increase in something is going to be a big deal. Sorry for the loud thought. I just dropped my phone.
    46:40
    All right. I've had enough of Jaws accessories and whatnot, and we have so much more on our notes. What would you buy? Let's let's just say you do own Jaws Premium and I will get Jaws Premium. Yeah. What what are the things that you would consider putting in your game? The buoy of death from Stumbler, which is awesome. I think it's cool. Someone has said, though, the DMD doesn't really match the 70s vibe. Eh, I think it's still cool. Okay, but you could also just turn that DMD off. Yeah, true. Even Davey said that.
    47:14
    Honestly, I think if anything out of this package I'm going to grab, I would consider the speaker light system and probably the pinball armor. That was the two things I would consider. I would consider the inner art blades and the speaker lights. If I had to pick the ones that I would spend my money on, that's what I would pick my money on.
    47:39
    Okay. But I'm not going to begrudge someone if they said, no, I want everything. Okay. I'm going to rapid fire these. Ready? Okay. Dutch pinball. Alice in Wonderland. How do you feel about it? Don't care. Yeah. And legitimately, this is – they're trying to milk the J-pop thing for everything it's worth. Yeah but it weird because it was a foam core Like this concept probably didn even This was a napkin sketch Yeah it really was This was not even a fleshed game This was sold 100 on Zombie Yeti art because it looked really cool It's just weird to me. It's really – and they're not even using Zombie Yeti. He's not – he's not associated at all. Absolutely. But it shows that art and – okay, in the 90s when I was actually into comic books, like early 90s. And this is the Todd McFarlane's. This is the Rob Liefeld, like the guys who made like Deadpool, you know, the original guys. Jim Lee was a huge artist and they would people would buy their their comics based on the art because it was just visually so different than any comic books before. yeah however eventually people just kind of got tired of it because there wasn't much story there and i i would feel the same way about alice in wonderland you have a foam core idea from j-pop um j-pop obviously needs a team to make up for his many deficiencies 100 agree i do not consider world cup soccer a j-pop game i know his name is on like it the general concept was him yeah i really feel like that is a that is a larry demar game yeah it's it's a hundred percent a team game like there's no way that that was j-pop so if you haven't listened to our larry demar episode it's great uh it's amazing and he does talk about how j-pop actually left early because his father was having some issues uh health issues and so uh they they pretty much did the rest of the game i don't know how much yeah and i will point out too you are 100 ripe then there there is creep in expectations like i now i i don't have a super old game behind me i mean the oldest one i have is really um wizard of oz yeah which uh but if you look behind you you see you know an em you see a world cup soccer and then you get into your sterns so yeah it's gonna look different i will point out too the um getting back to is the topper gonna wow you okay the whitewater topper is awesome yep it also if they put out the white water topper today they would charge a thousand dollars for it oh easily yeah and that is not a thousand dollar topper same with the same with adam's family it's a cool topper not a thousand dollars all right progetti they've officially announced funhouse and it's been shown what do you think um you know i'll let you go first you have a lot more connection to funhouse than i do um i don't think we've talked about this yet so personally i love funhouse it's one of the games that got me hooked on pinball it might not be one of the first ones i played but it's definitely one of those ones i was like holy crap this is so cool you're it's you and we talk about world under glass this is like it's a toy story it looks like it's totally under the glass it's rudy is making fun of you you're interacting with rudy i'm excited i'm nervous um pendretti has said that they will be using planetary pinball parts so i know that they have higher quality to the part um these are being made in europe i don't know if we're allowed to say when they start shipping i'm not going to do that well okay the bottom line is they will be coming out sometime yeah they'll be coming out they should be shipping this year i'll just put it like that because okay that gives some leeway um i personally don't like the le artwork i find it weird that like the gophers are popping out everyone else is popping out it's a mismatch of things i agree i don't like the fact that there's like bride of pinbots in the r and right it's like this is fun house this is like why why are we why is this like a love letter from all the bally williams stuff that's just me like if i were to buy this i'm definitely going classic every day uh i've heard very terrible things about the 2.0 code and people have actually said no we're not buying the le okay okay but so far i there i don't think they're done with the code they're not done but it's been out for at least three years now remember you and i both played it oh you're talking to rudy's nightmare yeah yeah yeah this is the exact same code yeah oh who knows maybe they can tune it up a little bit i thought mark did a good job with the voice and i think he had a very big hurdle to go over yeah it's not the original but he was going for something different i think he did a great job with the way he went with it he's going for creepy clown overall honestly i think this was a brilliant move to make this game uh they're selling better than wick i know that for sure and it's just an all-around i don't know like i said personally me i'm debating if i want to like this is a game i'm seriously consider buying but like i recommend to everyone go out play it feel the quality especially like at Expo I'm going to be asking questions I'm going to ask them to lift the hood I want I don't want my love for Funhaus to outweigh becoming a box of problems does that make sense?
    53:22
    100% do you get pause at all from a European manufacturer versus someone in the States? yes and no uh yes because it is in europe and if i have issues it's a different country like i know how australia and canada feels i guess well at least canada is like right there canadia but the other thing too is is is the point of contact is the pinball company in america and i know that they're going to make things right okay also the parts are readily available in america because of planetary pinball so yes i am a little concerned because it's in europe but no there's already plenty of stuff in america that it's i think if there is an issue i can reach out to the points of contact like flipping out and they'll take care of it and it won't be like six to eight weeks to get my part i think i'll be able to get it here so you like that there's some teamwork approach is what you're saying yes so it's a little different than maybe like a highway pinball or you know we we all know there's you know haggis is alone down in in arizona in not arizona in australia uh yeah arizona is in the United States um okay so yeah that's I'm a little it does give me a little bit of pause uh just because pendra I've never owned a pend ready game however you are correct in that it's a it is a great theme that does have longevity I um I'm not a huge Pat Lawler fan so the the games don't connect with me as they would with a lot of people but I can definitely see the marketability of it. And there are people who really do connect with that theme. And it is a great home theme. Like if you're putting a game in your home, there's going to be no questions about that unless you have like, you know, creepy doll vibes.
    55:17
    I agree. Alrighty, next on the list, Harry Potter's Jumping the Line. Eric, Minior on design? So, yeah. Okay, do you think they would, aside from maybe Steve Ritchie, you can't imagine them going with anyone. Eric has designed their biggest selling game. Correct. Yes, it was Gums and Roses. Yep. And there certainly were some built-in advantages with that. I just find it interesting that Mark Seiden's been there for a while now. Yep. And granted, he's working on his game. And like if they're taking more time to champion him and get him up and going, awesome.
    56:00
    Sorry, you're leading this. I apologize for cutting you off. But no, I think really Eric's the go-to guy, right? Like there's no one else. I would be surprised if it weren't Eric. I guess I'll put it that way. Yeah, I agree. I would be very surprised if it was Mark Seidman. The question I have, and this is, okay, I'm going to go back to the topper thing. If you're going to buy a topper, would you buy a topper from Stern or would you buy it from CGC? OK, you're going to buy the CGC one. OK, if you're and you could argue that if you are going to buy a game, you have to you do have to factor in. OK, Elton John's a fun game. I don't know anybody who's played it that says, yeah, I don't like this thing. Yeah. If it came out at a price point that was equivalent to Stern, do you think that would have been a big seller?
    56:53
    Possibly. I think it would have been. I think it would have been. I, I can tell you for a fact, for me, I would buy it. Yep. If if if a premium were in the nine thousand range, I'd buy it and put it in my basement because I I'm old enough that I remember when those songs came out. Yep. And that is something that is fun. It's it's a great shooting game. It's a proven layout.
    57:23
    So their problem has always been price. It's it's I'm sorry, it's just too much. And I'm hoping that I'm wrong. I'm hoping that people say, well, you don't know the numbers and it's selling gangbusters and there's going to be tons of them. Maybe, but there's a big difference between selling a billion guns and roses at 9,500 versus 10,500, depending on when you put on your order versus their last two releases or three releases, which are toy story, Godfather and Elton John. I guarantee the volume they sold of the last three are significantly lower than what the other is. Now, maybe the price increase makes up for the lower sales units. Maybe. Plus, you don't have as many people hired on if you're making less units. You're actually saving some money that way. There's some economics to it. Yeah, there are definitely things to consider. And maybe it makes more sense for them because if you look at a – like an economics curve, at some point, you're going to make the same amount of money at a higher price versus a lower – a lower price versus high volume versus higher price and low volume. There is a kind of a break-even point where you're actually making the same for making less units. And they would know that. I wouldn't. I doubt that they were considering lowering the price because we all know they have Harry Potter and they are going to want a premium price for Harry Potter. Yep. So that's – they seem to be riding out the higher price option.
    59:09
    So does it make sense that they would move up Harry Potter? Yes. Okay. I think the reason being especially where you've had Godfather, Toy Story, and Elton John, and it's no secret, there are still distributors holding on. New inboxes. They're still holding. What was it? Was it JJ from Game Exchange that posted on Facebook like six months ago? I've got Toy Story still in stock. Make me an offer.
    59:38
    And I think this was brought up because it's like there's supposed to be like there's an honorary number, right? Right. But when the product's not selling and distributors are sitting on – it's not just the money that they fronted up front. They're holding on to stock, and that's an area that could be taken by another game. But you're not supposed to go to that number because you could lose business from that. Like J.J. Peakey would be like, you know what? If you can't honor the deal that we've made, you can no longer be a distributor.
    60:06
    It just seems very much like I don't give a crap. If you don't give a crap, I need to move these. You know what I'm saying? How many times have you seen, hey, we found these open boxes. We had five new boxes a week ago, but now we have five open box deals. Yeah, exactly. Which, by the way, is just a way they can skirt the bottom line. They basically opened it to ensure it was intact, but they never actually unboxed it. Yeah.
    60:37
    Okay, moving on. I'm sorry. this is a very i feel very long-winded tonight okay so moving up uh harry uh maybe and that would be that would tell me that elton is uh winding up if that's the case yeah now the next rumored thing that was supposed to be coming out with jjp would be possibly like uh matrix right that's that's been the long-standing rumor and if that's the case maybe they're trying to distance themselves from John Wick. I hadn't thought about that. That was totally my thought. Do they want to have two Keanos come out? Now, you also have to assume that Harry's done. I don't know if Harry's done.
    61:24
    I can't remember. It was like Mother Day last year that they announced that they had a mother. Sorry, that Joe Kamikow beans. Joe said maybe. Who knows? yeah exactly okay so i want to point out one really quick thing then we're moving on okay um for those because i keep being asked this because people think i know stuff okay um so i'm just gonna say this publicly if you do the math people jjp has been very spot on for every nine months right now going back there for the last three releases so if you do nine months because elton john was released in october of 2023 if you do nine months, that means the next JJP game should be shown next month. Soon, yeah. Yeah. And I would lay money on it. Okay. I think I have not been personally told that it's being released that month.
    62:22
    It would make sense, though. It would make sense for JJP to release things a lot faster and get, you know, basically doing these exclusive games that are higher priced, that there is kind of a built-in exclusivity if you only make them for nine months and then move on. Yep. So I think we see this in the next nine months. Worst case scenario. Okay, I can't guarantee it's Harry Potter. But the next GHAP, I want to say, is next month's release. worst case scenario we see at expo yeah yeah i it's definitely i i would probably say august i really would um but that that would make sense so there's probably going to be other things that you're going to be dealing with too like stern stern's rumored like black and white godzilla coming out could also take something rumored metallica stern's rumored metallica yeah there's a lot of rumors out there or you know jack danger's next game and and and some you know some so you're always going to be competing with different releases yep okay let's move on to oh and the other question too is i keep getting a lot do you know which game's coming next from stern i if i were if i were to see where the smoke from the fire is coming with all the rumors and stuff that i bet you july it's metallica um i bet actually i actually i know that i don't think so i don't think july is metallica well okay this is your thoughts go ahead go ahead okay this is josh's thoughts july july's metallica october is actually uh an x-men 97 which is a borg which is a remake of x-men and then i think in december january we see jack danger with pokemon this is all speculation okay and i also want to put the caveat too that i do know that people uh gomez did say on joel's interview with him uh joel from the triple drain and flipping out and all that stuff that jack danger is next in the pipeline right but uh yeah so that's my thought okay Would you want to, did you want her to throw that out before I move on to the next? Well, I would just say, I think there, I would say odds are very good that they're going to do a black and white Godzilla. Yeah. Odds are that would, that would come out and kind of like a Lucy or a cat woman edition or something like that. Um, I have a good, I have a feeling that Borg's game coming out would be Metallica.
    65:04
    So I, I think that's their, that's their vault edition that's coming out because that there are some things that they could possibly be doing with the new like with the spike three system right and there's a question that you could you could ask there are systems that have been you know backwards compatible like if you buy a video game right so sometimes when they have some backwards compatibility if they were using Metallica as a test case to see if they can just run older code without having to update everything. So that, that seems to be, that, that seems to be the tea leaves for me on that. Um, is it possible that, uh, that the X-Men 97 project may come up at maybe I just, I don't feel the appetite for X-Men to get re-released because it wasn't really a big seller back in the day. And Rush is basically a better layout than X-Men, and it's still very similar. Yeah. That's the only reason I'm like, maybe not.
    66:19
    But another reason I'm saying X-Men 97, we've brought this up before. uh if you do the math it seems like once a year stern is doing something from disney some kind of that could be marvel or whatever it may be whether it's a rerun whether it's uh you know i'm saying and so um it's been it's been a minute since we've had a disney licensed property uh revealed from stern i'm trying to think of the last time we even saw one was Venom. Sorry. So Venom in October, I guess, hasn't been that long then.
    66:57
    I guess. Why did I forget Venom? Why did that leave my conscience? I don't know. We know because Venom is typically a more location game. Yeah. It's a location game. Okay. Maybe not then. Well, I don't know. We'll see. Okay. My next quick one. American Pinball. David Fix was on Pinball News. He pretty much confirmed Cuphead is next and will be out by Expo as long as it's fully baked. They're not going to rush it, but it sounds like they're on a time crunch.
    67:31
    And after that, I'm sorry, I didn't listen to the full episode. Supposedly He-Man and Masters of the Universe got brought up as well as the game after that. I don't know. And I want to say they said Franchi's on the arc for that. So thoughts? Cuphead's a bad thing. uh it's i i like it i'm excited to see cuphead it's a some more than barbecue it is a okay yeah barbecue i mean yeah um cuphead it's it's i'm sorry barbecue is a it's a puzzling theme i guess i'll put it that way yeah okay um the cuphead is just so focused it would be like okay i know that Rick and Morty seem a little like sub-genre.
    68:19
    Cuphead is definitely sub-sub-genre. It's very niche and a very niche hobby. It's really. You are targeting a very narrow demographic. I mean, it would be like me thinking, like, I think Venture Brothers are hilarious because it's just making fun of Johnny Quest the whole time. Oh, yeah. 100%. But I would be shocked if they said there's a Venture Brothers pinball machine coming out. Yeah. Yeah, and so you're really – if you're trying to go for themes, you want to go for the broadest appeal. So would you take Cuphead or G.I. Joe?
    68:56
    Me personally, probably Cuphead. Okay, all right. You got to understand though, I've played the video game. I love the video game. Sure. My family has all watched Cuphead on Netflix, all three seasons. And again, this is me getting out of my demographic, right? Yeah. I'm solidly in the 45 to 65 demographic I have no connection to Cuphead at all you said Cuphead was a rumor and I had to ask who was that watch seriously watch Netflix the Netflix series it's really good He-Man He-Man's a great theme yeah it is a great theme like of all the of all the 80s cartoons He-Man's probably the best one really so i would choose he-man i would move he-man up because okay i'm i'm just looking at an amateur revenue stream i don't see too many american pinballs getting sold yeah so if you're going to go big i would go with he-man i agree um but you know if cupheads say you're you know you're doing these small runs and you can just throw out 300 of them and call it good sure why not but he man it would be where you'd want to go all righty so i was listening to eclectic gamers podcast they just released an episode on saturday if you haven't checked it out uh it's pretty much a fan episode it's a bunch of emails because the music the news has been slow yeah so there was a gentleman i want to say by the name of steven that had wrote in asking some questions to egp and i actually wanted to answer two of these because i felt like the first one we do a lot and then the second one uh we we do interviews and so i felt like it was may not directly pointed at us but but we have more guests than your average podcast your average pinball podcast so and we could give a little more insight from a personal standpoint so the first question we're going to go with why do podcasters talk about other podcast hers okay or podcasts uh do you want to go first on this one scott sure uh okay the the nice thing about podcasters is there is definitely some cross-pollination uh we are friends with many of the podcasters and And we listen to many other podcasters because they have different styles. Like we have our own style.
    71:28
    You know, this is and we've we've talked about this before. How do we want to run a show? And the bottom line is you and I talk regularly on the phone. Yeah. And this is this is basically a phone conversation. Yeah. So it's easy for us to translate that into a podcast because you as the listener are the silent third person in our conversation. And we try to take it very casual, like you're invited to come. You can contribute. You can agree. You can disagree with us. But that has been our approach. Other shows are definitely different. They have different approaches. And so one of the reasons why we do talk about others in some ways it would be to Hey they may have a different take Like if you want competitive pinball then you probably want to listen to a podcast that talks about tournament pinball. Yeah. You know, and, and you know, triple drain has tournament pinball players in their final round has tournament, tournament pinball players in there. You know, these are things slam till slam till absolutely. The, those guys are, all of those guys are better pinball players than me. You know, I am the collector at home who dabbles around and playing. So one of the reasons why is because we are also fans of different shows because they offer something that we don't.
    72:49
    But it's also good to get different perspectives, too. If you keep going down the same rabbit holes, then you do start getting a little tone deaf and siloed into your own point of view on pinball. and this actually brought up this was reflected back on me one time I was in a chat one time when I was talking about I was basically railing on topper prices and I said they would make a lot more money by selling more toppers at a cheaper price and this is Josh Sharp who's an accountant and he fired back he's like the only thing you don't have behind your assumption are any numbers yeah and that did hit me to say you know what you're right i'm not an accountant and i i don't have a business major and they they are crunching the numbers and it may not be valuable a price for me but it could be for a lot and a lot of people and so that keeps me in check that's one of the reasons why um also another reason why because it's fun like these are our friends and i i don't really feel much competition about other people's numbers because that's, I'm doing this for, for fun. We're not making any money on this. Uh, the reason I shout out other podcasts is because a lot of times I'm listening to them. Uh, they bring up stuff that I appreciate and make me see from a different perspective or, uh, get that, get my brain turning and going, Oh, Hey, I hadn't thought of that and so um i i also recommend people because if you're listening to us and you enjoy us we're we're usually an hour to an hour and a half every two weeks you're usually looking for something else to listen to as well i that's why i recommend triple drain that's why i recommend eclectic gamers or the pinball show or uh you know we're all kind of similar vein like obviously like slam tilt if you want history silver ball chronicles yeah yeah um and i enjoy slam tilt I think that's the thing is like these are people that I know and I respect not only on a friendship level but from a podcasting level. Like I know the quality of content you're going to get from them is good. I don't really – so one thing they had mentioned is they said that podcasters mention other podcasters because it brings credibility to their own podcast. I don't fully get that. I'm not saying – I don't mention Triple Drain every episode because I feel like I'm riding on their coattails and it gives me credibility to Loser Kid. No. I literally do this because I like those guys. We have – we talk to them outside. We even have newcomers like Don. Don's new to the – and Don is – he is podcasting a lot. Yeah, a lot. I don't know how he does it, man. He does it. And he has a different style too. He's like a solo stream of consciousness talker. Which is different.
    75:52
    Ron and Bruce are hilarious at slam tilt. They're definitely a little more irreverent. And so I laugh when I hit them. And I also appreciate Buffalo Binball. They definitely have a very professional show. They have more of a group mix show. And there are a lot of their takes that I agree with. There are a lot of them that I don't, too. But it's good to see different perspectives. Well, even like Vic VP. Like I'm glad that Stern had, you know, he reached out and got to do the John Wick stuff. Yeah. I, I really like his stuff. I'm glad that like, I didn't know who he was before the Stern stuff. And you know what? We've talked behind the scenes. He's a really cool dude. He's a nice guy. Yeah. And he's definitely addressed us. Cause there's like, well, I, okay. So I have a godfather pinball machine. So, so we, we were actually weren't criticizing him. Having the pinball machine behind it was just more of, that was an interesting take from Stern to choose him because, you know, but true but he did have a valid point of like he did he's like you want to prove that yeah yeah and so and and another thing too i think we criticize too much when like with vick he's like i've only been in this for like a year and a half two years if i remember correctly yeah i mean when i was only in it a year and a half to two years like my perspective was entirely different than it is today and so and i don't disagree with him like virtual pinball like you might not like it you might love it the thing about virtual pinball is i can play thousands of games all in one cap i can still work rule sets yeah and so is it the is it authentic no like it's not well i don't want to say like okay i will say there seems to be a progression right and this is this is where people i think justifiably bust david fix a little bit when He says you shouldn't have an opinion unless you've been in pinball for five years. I'm like, no. Actually, you can have a pinball if you've never played a game because the market is going to be continually growing or shrinking, and you want it to be growing. It's all subjective. Okay, second question.
    78:02
    Why are the interviews so softballed questions? Okay. And well, OK, and we have talked a lot behind the scenes on this. OK, and I will put it out there that how many interview shows are aggressive to the audience person that they have invited on? Yeah, I think of it. So any any show that invites someone on the only one I could possibly think of is possibly David Letterman had a little more bite to him when he had people on. But in many ways, the the interviewee was in on it.
    78:45
    You know, when when Dave would go after Richard Simmons and I know I'm going way back. But they would make fun of Richard Simmons nonstop. but Richard Simmons was kind of in on the, the shtick. Okay. But most of the time when you, when you look at the tonight show, you look at Jimmy Kimmel, you look at Stephen Colbert, you look at, um, any sort of show that invites people on, you have to at least have some respect for, for the guests.
    79:12
    And if you bring them on and you're toxic to them, then you're not going to get good quality stuff. And that's the first thing. You want the interviewee to feel comfortable. You want them to feel engaged. Now, are the questions all softball? No, I think there are some that we want to talk about the products and we want to bring out information. But there are things that we will ask that focus on, OK, this is a controversy that has been floated behind the scenes. Do you care to address that? Do you care to talk about that and at least give them a forum? Sometimes they want to talk. Sometimes they don't. And there are some that we have interviewed some people where we have cut out a few questions because they were uncomfortable with it. Yeah. But so you can't sustain a show if you are being if you are not inviting a guest to your house and treating them with respect. Yep. I agree.
    80:10
    So I want to pull up one. I don't like to bring up usually like trolling comments. OK. But there was one from – I can't remember if it was our Stern Factory or if it was the Gomez interview. It was the Stern Factory. And I'll say why. The gentleman had said, I bet no one had the cojones to ask why the LE prices are so ridiculous in your conference call room. And then used it to explain like that's why we know you guys are softball or whatever. And the funny part is I had responded and I said, actually – We did. Someone did bring that up. Yeah. brought up in the conference and if you listen to our episode with gomez we brought it up there as well uh and they both gave answers and the dude never responded back yeah here's the thing some of you people out there that you're listening do a little bit of research before you think before you speak okay after let me now moving back on to the interview stuff okay what i found refreshing with Gomez. Gomez said to us, you hear it in the Joel interview. He said it to us before we started ask the hard questions. Yeah. Worst case scenario. I say, I can't talk about that. Okay, cool. I love when my interviewee is enthusiastic. This is going out to a lot of you. If you're listening, if you're, if you, we ever invite you on, if you're enthusiastic about your product and you're open about your product, it makes the interview so much funner and easier to listen to and people will engage more and the reason i bring up the gomez interview is because it exploded it 12 000 listens between all of our platforms together in less than a week yeah it blew it was crazy um sorry that and and the john wick release episode with davy i got to put that caveat i apologize but there was a lot of there was a lot of listens in like a week it was insane um but the reason i bring that up is because we have had interviewees in the past where we have asked questions we've asked questions that are floating around right now about their companies that have been asked like why is no one asking this question it's because we've asked it and i get one or two responses the first response is i can't talk about that right you gotta drop it and you gotta cut it from the interview okay okay thanks you want me to leave that in there because all they're going to say is i can't talk about it you drop it and didn't take it out of the interview what what does that benefit you at all to bring more speculation like i don't get it the second thing is like we did ask a question that was uh i didn't think was too i thought the company would want to get ahead of what was being said the interviewee stood up said if these are the kind of questions are going to be asked i do not want to be in this interview and i said okay like we can where we won't ask that question you know you're welcome to sit down we'll talk about what you want to talk about because it's a really weird dynamic i can ask those questions all day uh but if i don't have an interview like it's a waste of my time it's a waste of your time like it just it doesn't benefit anyone at that point yeah it might sound softballed but i don't know it takes time to set these it's not just like i call up uh gomez and say hey it's it's three o'clock on a thursday afternoon you got time you want you want to do this no it It takes at least a week of planning. We line these up. We come up with the questions. A lot of times we will send the questions over pre-hand just to say, hey, this is what we're going to be covering. If there's anything on here you don't feel comfortable with, please let us know. A lot of times they don't care.
    83:51
    So there's the inside. That's the making the sausage. So a lot of you people out there are like, why is it so softballed? There are interviews that are very softballed because that's all we're getting out of the interviewee. uh well okay not not all questions are are really considered softball true and it's subjective right like right it's very very subjective we do bring up we bring up a controversy about theme we bring up controversy but the bottom line is if we want to invite people back onto our show you have to show some level of respect and so they felt that they were respected when they were on the show and sometimes they don't have good answers for the hard questions or at least answers they can discuss yeah um there i've heard of people that done the interview and they've essentially tricked the person into answering a question they didn't want to ask and they had a pace yeah yeah or they pushed out the interview when they've been asked to cut it yeah that's just not my stick that's not my thing guys i respect the people in this industry from smallest company to biggest company And so that it is what it is. Like, honestly, personally, uh, to the gentleman that asked this question, start up a podcast. That's right. Start asking people to come do interviews, invite people on and then be mean to them. Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. And see how long you last. And like, and seriously, I encourage anyone out there that's listening. If you want to do a podcast, it's super simple. We do it through Zencaster. You get two weeks, like free, whatever you do, do it on your phone and try it out. Like, that's the thing. Like you, Just like Scott said earlier, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. I really encourage it. If this is something you want to do, then do it. I think it's hard. I think there's a reason why people who tend to have a more critical take, it tends to be a solo show. Look at them. They tend to be solo shows, and they tend to be a little bit of a stream of consciousness or a rant. okay now not now not everybody who falls into that category does that what are you saying why are you saying this about don why don't you just publicly call out don don's a nice guy okay no but there are some who that is kind of their lane yeah is they typically take a very critical um view of the industry and they they take a very cynical view of it yeah and to be blunt that's not my style like i i i'm in pinball because i enjoy it i it still is a hobby that i enjoy i don't
    86:32
    view it as nefarious or mean even though some people that's just what they want to hear because trust me if you have a total takedown okay i have certainly gone that direction with deep root because i felt that they had burned so many bridges they deserved it yeah they they had it coming yeah so so i'm ready but for the most part we do have very good relationships with the with the manufacturers and the designers and that's the reason why we can still get people on the show yeah and that's why they give us tidbits and morsels too that everyone rants and raves about for the next six months as well and so i think okay personally me there's too much complaining in this hobby, either pick up a shovel and start helping, start work. My thought process is there's a lot of squeaky wheels out there, and I know the oil gets the squeaky wheel, right? My recommendation is start coming up with solutions. If you don't feel like something's being done right, recommend something. Say, hey, I noticed that you're doing this. Have you thought about doing it this way? just just that's my thought process i guess that's just who i am i and the other thing too is is like a lot of this doesn't get to me and and the reason being is i i know i've talked about this before but i was in a touring band for a few years um but my hometown that we played out of when we played shows it wasn't like i could play all shows with pop punk we were pop punk we we were very much in the vein of like all-time low green day some 41 that was our jam that was that's what i enjoyed uh slightly leaning towards emo um so when we played shows there was like death core metal that we'd had there was rappers in our town we played the show with what we had because people aren't paying like tickets just to come see us and it also builds community yada yada but the thing is is i didn't get offended when a kid came up after we did the show and was like you guys should sound more death metal and i'm like well why like what makes you think that i should sound more death bone he's like well because i love death metal okay you do but i don't want to play that i want to play the music i don't want to play it's like the feedback that we should swear more on our podcast i'm like yeah it's not really our and there are tons of podcasts go ahead and listen to them that's it's just my style so my point being is is if you're going to criticize someone for what they're doing or who they are or whatever may stand back and consider like that's their lane and that's the thing that they've chosen to do or there's a reason behind what they're doing yeah like if there's like good constructive criticism awesome like like this is how i feel like you could improve your show but to change who you are because i don't fit in with what you think it should be uh sorry it's not happening i guess i had to learn that growing when you're touring and stuff like that and people like you're good you should just be more metal or more ska or whatever it's like cool yeah like i wouldn't mind having some of those elements but i'm not changing everything we've produced it's just it's weird to me and i get like a lot of people don't get that so uh but yeah and if you've lasted this long josh is now going to take off his shirt and show us his third dimple i am not but i want to wrap this up with doing a couple of shout outs okay i know we've already done a ton of shout outs uh i've had this concept i've been thinking about this a lot um there's a lot of times like we've talked about in the show we get into our lane we very much listen to certain podcasts or certain and we don't hear about certain podcasts um i'm starting up a small segment it's just gonna be like a couple couple minutes if that content creator of the episode um i don't care if you're doing youtube i don't care if you're doing podcasting or even if you consider you do 40 000 posts on pitt side and you feel like you should be recognized for your voice because you you are literally creating content because you're on a forum uh creating content i don't remember uh so if you feel like you should be like you should recognize if you want to be recognized yeah and and we don't talk about you or whatever and maybe we don't know who you are send us your information i want to listen to you the first one i'm going to bring up uh is technology connections this was actually brought up to my attention by uh the hvac technician that trained me i had never actually listened to technology connections the youtube channel uh it's very much like heating and air conditioning or tvs or stuff like that but he's actually been doing pinball for he's doing a series on pinball and the cool part is is like the very first episode he did about like what makes pinball tick or whatever two million views so this dude obviously has a following he's doing really great but i actually didn't know about this and it's obviously people other people know about this if you haven't checked it out very well done uh and there's i want to say there's three episodes so far out for the pinball stuff so check out tech technology connections the second shout out i want to give um todd not todd i apologize shane told from if you've ever heard a band called silverstein he is the lead singer of that band a toronto-based emo band very metal mixed with some screaming good stuff um very punk rock as well uh he has a podcast called lead singer syndrome if you haven't checked this out it's very cool some of your favorite rock bands uh or he even covers a array of different bands but he brings the lead singers on they have a discussion they talk about you know behind the scenes made some crazy stuff you didn't know he's done he's been doing it for nine years now and he has a wide array of a ton of singers dude's way into pinball uh i didn't know this but like a month ago we get a follow on instagram like shane told main singer silverstone wait a minute and so i clicked on it just like is this legit and it was the blue the blue check mark and everything and i was like like i grew up on discovering the waterfront an amazing cd if you haven't heard it very good if you're uh their newer stuff is uh not his email let's put it that way but the newest stuff check out burn it down or break uh bad habits fantastic songs as well but i i was like i gotta check this out like this is shit so i finally messaged him this last week and uh we're gonna have him on and he's gonna talk about pinball because the dude loves pinball and so i think this is awesome this is this is it's just cool like listening to this dude and then he's like yeah i love your guys's podcast uh so i'm excited so if you haven't checked there's There's two content creators, both that deal with pinball, but maybe not actually talk about pinball. Technology Connections doing their pinball segments and then Lead Senior Syndrome with Shane Told. All right, Scott. Sorry, I kind of took over there for a minute. No, it's all good. I talk way too much most of the time, so it's good to listen to someone else. And if you made it this far and you want to email us, because I bet we're going to get some negative comments on this episode. It's all good. You know, the best part about emails is I never see them. I know you don't. And the funny part is there's some ones that we get. I'm like, yeah, I'm just throwing that one away. And they're like, I joke about it to you weeks later. You're like, we got an email about that? I'm like, yeah, do you really want me to read it to you? It's kind of stupid. Okay. He tells me the good emails. Josh is my filter. So he keeps my sunshine going. Yeah. Well, and honestly, we get a ton of positive feedback. And so like when you get like two or three bad things, like. man that's how i feel you still hear those louder so or we might make fun of you because we don't really swear and i don't drink you know scott you know you get him at expo yeah right i'm drinking my water right now because i'm working tomorrow oh yeah but uh anywho if you want to get a hold of us loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com uh if you want to get almost on the socials at loser kid pinball we're on x instagram facebook threads uh twitch tiktok yeah all that stuff and sorry some of it i don't do jack with like i think our tiktok we like released like three episodes at expo last year and that that was it so um but yeah if you want to get a hold of us that's the way you do it also hit up silver ball swag thank you too i'm going to say we don't get names of who buy our product but they it tells us the location. So the gentleman that bought the men's shoes, Loser Kid shoes in gray in Tennessee, you're going to be the coolest guy in Tennessee.
    95:27
    Or maybe it's a woman that buys men's shoes. I don't know. I don't judge. Silverballswag.com slash Loser Kid. Get some shoes, get some swag, get some shirts.
    95:39
    Sterns all covered in our Loser Kid attacks logo. That was done by Michael Bernard. Thanks, Michael.
    95:47
    Yeah. Scott, give us our last words. Okay, I'm starting to look forward to Pinball Expo. I'm really wondering what you guys are thinking. So hopefully we'll get some feedback to see what you guys are hoping to see at Expo. And I'm definitely going to hit up. Let's make a deal.