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Episode 40 - Die on this Hill: Hook

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·46m 42s·analyzed·Jul 22, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Wedgehead defends Data East Hook as underrated classic with stunning art and ramp design despite ruleset flaws.

Summary

Alan and AJ defend Data East's Hook (1992) on Wedgehead Pinball Podcast's 'Die on this Hill' segment, arguing it's an underrated game (ranked 266/294 on Pinside) with exceptional art, theme integration, innovative skill shot, and a legendary left ramp—despite ruleset imbalance that rewards left ramp looping. They acknowledge the Chat Age code update as transformative and address critical reviews blaming poor lighting, boring ruleset, and limited shots.

Key Claims

  • Hook was Data East's fourth best-selling game of all time, after Star Wars, Lethal Weapon 3, and Jurassic Park

    high confidence · Alan, citing industry knowledge; context: 6,700 units sold

  • Data East only made Hook as a condition to securing the Jurassic Park license from Amblin Entertainment (Spielberg's company)

    medium confidence · Alan, citing John Borg's old podcast interview; story-based claim

  • Hook is one of the last arcade games Data East made with a small DMD screen; Data East rushed to market to beat Bally Williams

    high confidence · Alan; Checkpoint had the first small DMD, followed by TMNT and others

  • The Chat Age code (by a coder referred to as 'Chat Age') finished the game, balancing the ruleset and adding call-outs and modes

    medium confidence · AJ; claims the code update transformed gameplay from incomplete to complete

  • John Papaduke (Papa Duke) 'shamelessly ripped off' Hook's plunge skill shot arcade in his later Williams games

    medium confidence · Alan; opinion/comparison; contrasts favorably with Hook 'not defrauding anyone'

  • Hook was designed by Tim Seckel with art by Paul Faris, music/score adapted by Brian Schmidt from John Williams' original film score

    high confidence · Alan; standard industry credits

  • Hook has an extra-tall backbox compared to other Data East machines, standing out visually on location

    high confidence · Alan; personal observation and design preference defense

  • The original playfield design had even taller stacked plastic trees (6 feet total or similar) but was trimmed down due to playtesting feedback about blocking visibility

    medium confidence · AJ; anecdotal recollection from early production unit he owned

  • Most negative reviews of Hook are due to poor maintenance (burned-out incandescence, weak flippers) rather than game design flaws

Notable Quotes

  • “Hook is tall. Pete Davidson is tall. He fucks, and so does Hook. Okay? Put that shit to rest. Hook: tall, handsome.”

    Alan @ ~mid-episode — Comedic defense of Hook's tall cabinet design; uses unexpected analogy to argue aesthetic superiority

  • “Hook didn't take anybody's money and promise him all these fake games that he drew on pieces of pinball machine and defraud all these. Hook just delivered fun.”

    Alan @ ~mid-episode — Implicit reference to Papa Duke/Deep Root Pinball Kickstarter controversy; positions Hook as trustworthy delivery vs modern fraud

  • “The Chat Age code finished the game. It finished what that game should have been. He took that game and made it a good game.”

    AJ @ ~early-mid episode — Key claim about code update transforming the game; frames original as 'incomplete'

  • “I feel like the left ramp is one of the coolest in all of pinball, and the score and sound effects are incredible.”

    Alan (from his Pinside review) @ ~mid-episode — Direct praise for signature design element; part of formal review

  • “It's one of those games that makes you play the whole playfield if you really play the game. We do like to play the whole playfield.”

    Alan/AJ (consensus) @ ~late-mid episode — Reframes ruleset imbalance as feature when flippers are weak; connects to design philosophy of variety

  • “Paul Faris did it. He's a fucking legend. There's a giant crocodile eating the start button on the cabinet.”

    AJ @ ~mid-episode — Celebrates art package; references legacy artist Paul Faris from Bally's golden era

  • “I'm an American Pinball fan, having an American Pinball machine with this license, perfect for me. Like, love the movie. Love pinball. Love this game.”

    Alan @ ~early episode — Personal bias disclosure; theme/IP synergy alignment

  • “If you spam it, I don't know. When I play Scared Stiff, all I do is spam the ramp. It's the same thing. Same exact shot. Any ramp you can repeat.”

Entities

AlanpersonAJpersonAlexpersonData EastcompanyHookgameTim SeckelpersonPaul FarispersonBrian SchmidtpersonJohn Williamsperson

Signals

  • ?

    code_update: Chat Age code update is claimed to have finished Hook's ruleset, adding call-outs, balancing scoring, and making the game more complete. Hosts express strong desire to play the updated version.

    medium · AJ: 'The Chat Age code finished the game. It finished what that game should have been.' Alan skimmed the code notes and 'looks like they upped the scoring of a lot of other shit.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Hosts argue Hook is underrated and panned unfairly (ranked 266/294 on Pinside) and attribute negative reviews to poor game maintenance rather than design flaws.

    high · Alan frames the episode as defending an underrated game; both hosts repeatedly suggest reviewers played 'broken' or poorly-lit copies

  • ?

    product_concern: Multiple negative Pinside reviews mention poor lighting/dim GI, weak flippers, and burned-out incandescence. Hosts attribute these to maintenance issues on used machines, not design faults.

    high · Alan: 'I'm wondering if other people are having the same experience as me, and they're just playing broken games.' Multiple reviews cite poor lighting as primary complaint.

  • ?

    design_innovation: Hook's plunge skill shot arcade with kicker is highlighted as innovative and later copied by John Papaduke in Williams games.

    high · Alan: 'John Popadiuk shamelessly ripped off in multiples of his later games at Williams that everyone seems to think is so fucking cool. Okay. It was here in Hook first.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: The left ramp (Bangarang/wind coaster) is celebrated as one of the greatest ramps in pinball history with innovative wire-form routing and kicker mechanics.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.140

0:00
You signed your real name? Of course I did. If you believe in something, you sign your name to it. Alright, I'm gonna tell you right now. I ain't crazy.
0:08
This is the ground you'll die on. Are you sure? Oh my god, are you serious? Son, people can see you. I don't tell you what to do with your money. Don't fucking tell me what to do with mine, okay? I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I will defend myself. He means it, sweetheart. Well, that's because you're an idiot. I will fight and win because I am the most intelligent. You sure about that? I got something I want to say. A lot of you motherfuckers think you know who Teddy Powers is. Well, I'm here today to tell you all you don't know shit. Oh, I give up. You're going to get yourself killed, and this time I won't be able to save you. I make you laugh. I'm a clown. I amuse you. I'm here to fucking amuse you. Come on, don't bullshit me. Go ahead and go, but I'm not going to stop yelling, because then that'll mean I lost the fight. So, please leave a T under the mat. I love y'all very much. Peace out.
1:10
Serenity now! Serenity now! What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine, but this makes no sense.
1:41
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. My name is Alan, your host of the Wedget Pinball Podcast and one of the owners of the Portland Pinball Bar Wedget. Joined by my good friend and co-host, Alex, the water boy in his basement studio. Yeah, today we're also joined by our friend again, AJ, from Colorado. He operates games out of the basement of Bite Me Cake Company. AJ, what are we here to talk about? What game are you going to defend for us today? Data East Hook. Looky, looky, I got hooky. Oh yeah, baby. Data East Hook. Rufio. Oh, Rufio. Bang-a-rang. Hook was released in January of 1992, just two months before Bally released a little game called The Addams Family in March of 1992. But unlike that game, Hook is currently ranked on the pin side list at number 266 out of 294. That's bad. Oh, damn. I didn't realize it was that panned. It's that lowly rated. Okay. Hook was based off the excellent Steven Spielberg movie Starring Robin Williams as Peter Pan But he's grown up and forgotten that he was ever Peter Pan in the movie Oh, there you are, Peter It's one of my all-time favorite movies for myself So maybe I'm outing myself with theme bias Which is not something I normally have when we talk about these games But I love the movie And as a pinball fan, having a pinball machine with this license Perfect for me Like, love the movie Love pinball Love this game They sold 6,700 of these, which is massive. It's actually Data East's fourth best-selling game of all time, after only Star Wars, Lethal Weapon 3, which we covered on this show, and Jurassic Park. In fact, I heard a story John Borg was telling, who was a designer at Data East then, and a designer now at Stern in this day, say in an old TopCast interview that the only reason they even made Hook was to secure the rights to make Jurassic Park, because the studio in Amblin Entertainment, which was Spielberg's production company, said that they would only give them the license to Jurassic Park if they made Hook first. It was like a two-for-one deal. Notably, this game has a tiny DMD screen, which Data East rushed to the market to be Bally Williams to be the first game with these new dot matrix display screens. And Checkpoint had it first. Yes. And then Ninja Turtles and a couple other games with small DMDs, but Hook is the last game that they made with this small screen. It was designed by Tim Seckle with art by Paul Ferris, who was famous in the industry for his time in the ballet art department during the late 1970s and early 1980s. Some of his art racing some of the most iconic games of that era, including Paragon, Xenon, Centaur. He did the art package for a very rare game plan game, Andromeda, which I know AJ, our guest, owns as well. Neil Falconer is credited with the software on the game. Brian Schmidt with the music and sound. full disclosure like i love this game this was on my short list of games that i wanted to defend as a die in this hill game for myself i get a lot of listeners that are like when are you going to do one of these when are you going to do with these well you know what i am going to do one of these it's going to be right now i'm going to do it with my friend aj and we're going to tag team this because the co-host alex doesn't seem to like it very much yeah it's kind of true what we're going to do here is aj i want to give you the floor tell us why hook is a great game and then i'll follow up now pay attention class we have a lot to go over first i mean and foremost the art package is absolutely freaking amazing agreed look at the art on that thing look at the playfield art the back glass i mean the characteristic you know the likeness and it's they didn't get the likenesses they didn't get the rights for the likenesses that was kind of a data east move at that time that's yeah i would say look at every other data east at the time yeah it's so detailed and still hand-drawn like it's actually a piece of art i mean from the artwork down to like the plastics to the molded skull and ship and the way that they did the trees in the plastics like everything it's a true world under glass and if you resonate with the movie i mean that's one of my favorite movies growing up unfortunately i'm a disney adult and Peter Pan's like my jam. You are embarrassing me. Having that in a game, people are still chasing that. Like there's manufacturers now that are still chasing that much of a world under glass. And that has it. This game has it. Hook has it, hands down. Agreed. Is the rules great? Eh. As long as you have the chat age code. The chat age code. I mean, he took that game and made it a good game. Tell us about that. You know, it's been a while since I played it. I'm actually in the process of trying to buy one of my old hooks back. Hell yeah, dude. I'm trying. Unfortunately, I bought Labyrinth and it kind of took all my money. That's another story.

medium confidence · Alan and AJ's interpretation of multiple Pinside reviews mentioning 'poor lighting'

  • The left ramp (Bangarang/wind coaster ramp) is exploitable for 3+ million points when looped repeatedly, creating a dominant strategy that unbalances the ruleset

    high confidence · Alan acknowledges this in response to Connectacross review; both admit this is the game's key weakness

    • Alan @ ~late-mid episode — Defends ramp exploit as endemic to ramp-based games; contextualizes criticism

  • “Once you know the one unbalanced thing, it's like, shit. But it's like, that shouldn't ruin the enjoyment of the game.”

    Alan @ ~late-mid episode — Philosophical argument about how code imbalance shouldn't destroy gameplay fun

  • “Data East was, I don't know what happened. They went downhill. Look at the shit they're pumping out now.”

    AJ @ ~mid-episode — Critical observation about Data East's trajectory; contrasts past design with present

    • Chat Ageperson
    John Papadukeperson
    John Borgperson
    Steven Spielbergperson
    Robin Williamsperson
    Dustin Hoffmanperson
    Amblin Entertainmentcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Bally/Williamscompany
    Wedgehead Pinball Podcastorganization
    Pinsideorganization
    Portland Pinball Bar Wedgevenue
    Bite Me Cake Companyvenue

    high · Alan: 'It's got to be one of the best ramps in pinball history on the left side.' AJ: 'Hitting that wind coaster ramp over and over again is so satisfying, and it's a cool-ass shot.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Data East made Hook as a prerequisite to securing the Jurassic Park license from Amblin Entertainment (Spielberg's company); implied two-for-one deal structure.

    medium · Alan citing John Borg interview: 'the only reason they even made Hook was to secure the rights to make Jurassic Park, because the studio Amblin Entertainment...said that they would only give them the license to Jurassic Park if they made Hook first.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Left ramp looping generates 3+ million points repeatedly, creating dominant strategy that unbalances ruleset. Acknowledged weakness by defenders.

    high · Connectacross review: 'every cool feature the designers wanted players to see is unbalanced by looping the ramp for 3 million over and over and over.' Alan: 'I can't disagree with that. That's the shit part.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Hook showcases deep theme integration—playfield elements (Captain Hook ship, trees, Skull ramp), art, John Williams score, character call-outs, and movie references create cohesive 'world under glass.'

    high · AJ: 'everything, it's a true world under glass' and discusses stacked plastic trees, molded ship, themed ramps. Alan cites Paul Faris legendary art package.

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Data East rushed Hook to market with small DMD to beat Bally/Williams; it was Data East's last arcade game with small DMD. Part of broader DMD adoption timeline (Checkpoint first, TMNT after).

    high · Alan: 'Data East rushed to market to beat Bally Williams to be the first game with these new dot matrix display screens' and 'Hook is the last arcade game that they made with this small screen.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Data East positioned as 'cheaper company than Bally Williams'—fewer lamp sockets, less incandescence, budget approach compared to competitor polish.

    medium · Alan: 'Data East was kind of the cheaper company than Bally Williams...they would get by with fewer lamp sockets.' Context on LED mod necessity.

  • ?

    collector_signal: Early production Hook units with larger stacked plastic trees exist and are preferred by collectors for enhanced aesthetics; later units were trimmed down.

    medium · AJ: 'The first Hook I had had the stacked trees, the big century...the big trees is so much better. So much better.' References 'early production' variant.

  • ?

    industry_signal: Paul Faris recognized as legendary artist from Bally's golden era (Paragon, Xenon, Centaur). Hook's art package credited as exemplary of his style despite Data East's lower budget positioning.

    high · Alan emphasizes 'Paul fucking Faris' and 'legend' status; AJ notes 'hand-drawn' detail and 'piece of art' quality despite Data East cost constraints.

    • 6:30
    The chat H code finished the game. It finished what that game should have been. With a lot of your data yeast, I mean, how many games just don't feel complete? They did what they did and that's as good as it was. He finished call-outs, he finished rule set, he finished all this other stuff, and it just completed the game. It made it a whole different game. You actually have things to shoot for instead of flipping around. Yeah, I mean, you could do so many different things now, and it just increased the enjoyability of that game so much. The original code wasn't horrible. You didn't have to think about anything. You could just get on it and play it and have fun. You could talk with the game. You could quote the game while you're playing. You could just have fun without worrying about anything like, am I going to get this? No, just play. Just play the game. Hitting that wind coaster ramp over and over again is so satisfying, and it's a cool-ass shot. The way it rolls around and goes down the wire form and back to the flipper, you could just sit there and just rail that thing all day long. And then you have your different hurry-ups where you have to lock the ball and all that stuff. Like, it just builds excitement where the movie built excitement. It is clearly marked, and it lights the inserts, and it tells you what it wants you to do, something that we don't get in the modern era anymore because everything's lit, and everything's like a stack of too many things going on at the same time. But you have so many different shots that, I guess, I mean, it's all a lot of – would you call them hurry-ups? Yeah, mostly hurry-ups, yeah. You have them, and it builds excitement. So how could you not enjoy a game that builds excitement? I just don't get that. I agree.
    8:21
    100%. And 100% the movie is one of the best movies made. I will stand by that. It's in Spielberg's top five. I still watch it. 100%. Spielberg made a lot of great movies. It's definitely in his top five. So it's better than Jaws, so people can just suck on that. Oh, no. It finally happened. I'm having a total nervous breakdown. but you look at the cast of the movie alone yeah it's an all-star cast in dude dustin hoffman come on give me a break as captain hook amazing after all what would the world be like without can you imagine another human being playing peter pan other than robin williams amazing an adult peter pan yeah amazing he was one of the best you know and the movie's incredible like but the movie's it's not on trial here no it's a game it's but it's it's all one in the same because the game is so well tied into the movie all right i want to read my review that i wrote many years ago but i wrote it on pin side i'm going to start off with the overall rating 8.2 out of 10 i stand by this rock solid game okay very good game i said hook is one of those what if type pins i feel like the left ramp is one of the coolest in all of pinball and the score and sound effects are incredible the art is in the typical style of data east with heavy black inks which many people do not like but i genuinely like this art package the cabinet and back box are particularly sick. I mean, it's Paul fucking Ferris. Someone has a severe caca mouth, do you know that? Like most At East games, this game is crippled by its limited code, an unbalanced rule set. It can also be super dark, but with some LED mods to add some more GI, this can be solved. I would love to be able to change the rule set a little bit, tweak some of the score balancing, because I really think that it would have been an excellent game. The layout is there, the movie is a massive family favorite for all generations, even the animations on the tiny screen are pretty good i just wish this game had gotten the polish that bally williams gave their games during this era and it would have been nice if they would have gotten the likeness rights to robin williams and dustin hoppin from the movie but that was my review and uh i pretty much stand by that to this day that's a solid review yeah like i love this game i do think the code is the one limiting factor but you said chad h went in and finished this and i fucking that just makes me want to play a hook again dude like it makes me want to play it More because it's like you guys got to get a hook. The only thing I don't like about hook is the rule set over a long period of time. Every time I see a hook and it plays, I go out of my way to put a lot of games on it. I can understand how when we'll get to the bad reviews is they'll say, well, it's just hit the left ramp because that's that's where all the points are. That's like my review. I don't have an official one on here, but that's what I recall. It's not untrue. Some extra juice here. Why I think this game is great. I think, first of all, it's one of the extra tall back box games that Data East made, which means this machine is taller than other pinball machines. It's going to stand out. Alex may be going, why does that matter? Why does that matter? Why does it matter if it's taller? Let me tell you why. If you ever been on a dating app height matters Taller games are more handsome than shorter games okay people like tall handsome games i like my games looking like george costanza i want them no and bald on top i don't like toppers i don't like tall games some losers are gonna say no this game's ugly that's not true it's simply too tall to be ugly now you know how like some people like people look at pete davidson is one of those guys people like how does this guy always pull he's ugly no he's tall therefore he can't be ugly hook is tall pete davidson is tall he davidson fucks and so does hook okay put that shit to rest hook tall handsome that's a that's a mic drop right there mic drop dude i want to see anyone argue with that fucking take it's got the tiniest dmd screen and then it's i forgot it's you don't play the dmd yeah you don't need it no look at the music it is amazing yeah dude why is the game so tall with a little tiny like a one and a half inch tall display first of all you're saying it doesn't have a topper it did come with a topper it was a pretty bad one oh no it got even taller It got even taller. Oh, no. Yep. It's like Pete Davidson with a hat on. How tall is this thing? Can you even fit this in your basement? We can't fit Hook in our basement at the bakery. Oh, well. It has to be an upstairs game. Yep. Because it's tall and pretty. You should put it on those little legs that they run on like Super Mushroom World, the little tiny kid legs. The little tiny legs.
    13:16
    Hey, machines tall, dark, and handsome. Okay? That's just the way it is. What's the next thing? Yeah, what's your next defense? I also want to bring up the excellent skill shot. Okay. Hook has a fantastic draw plunge skill shot that John Papaduke shamelessly ripped off in multiples of his later games at Williams that everyone seems to think is so fucking cool. Okay. It was here in hook first. It's a true skill shot and it was done here and it's thematic. I like those. Yeah, it's very good. And if you like those plunge shots on the John Papadu games, it's here first. Hook did it first. Hook is better. And it just kind of. And Hook didn't take anybody's fucking money and promise him all these fake games that he drew on pieces of paper and defraud all these. Hook didn't do any of that. Hook just delivered fun. That's all they did. Hook is a good boy.
    14:10
    The skill shot, am I remembering right? Does the ball just kind of fall underneath and then just kind of like dribble out of there onto the play field? No. How does it get delivered? It kicks it out. There's a kicker. Okay, it goes around top. Yeah. Okay, that's cooler. Yeah, it's very cool. That's why I wanted to mention it. It's good. Because it's not going to be brought up in all these shit-ass hater reviews that you're going to read later. So I want to bring it up. Look, how many games have the same skill shot system? Look at Bride of Pinball. Yeah. I love Bride of Pinball. But you have, I don't know, why am I trying to blame you? Well, you have like Tales of the Arabian Nights. You have World Cup Soccer. World Cup Soccer, which is just a take on that too. All it does is dribble up down to your flipper. Yep, that's what I'm thinking of. That's the one that I'm like, that's pretty. Listen, Hook is way better than World Cup Soccer. Yeah, Hook has a cool kicker. Because Data East was not afraid to put more solenoids in games. Yeah, dude. Dude, Data East was... I don't know what happened. They went downhill. Look at the shit they're pumping out now. I also want to say, the theme integration, echo AJ's point, theme integration, world on glass, excellent. It's got to be one of the best ramps in pinball history on the left side. It's the Bangarang ramp. It's the Wind Coaster ramp. And if you've ever seen the movie, Rufio and the Lost Boys skate that shit in the movie on their skateboards. You get the center sculpt of Skull Rock. On the left side, you have a sculpt of Captain Hook's ship. You got the great Hook theme song. It's scored by John Williams, who did all the Spielberg shit. His score is incredible. It's forgotten about, just like the movie, just like this game. But it's amazing. Brian Schmidt who did the sound on this in stereo no less which Williams wasn't doing you only get that shit from Daddy East stereo sound okay you get this beautiful score done by legendary John Williams adapted put into this game and I just think that all the details on the game are there the arts there AJ brought up like the tree that they built of stacked plastics looks fucking good and thematic and in fact the original it was going to be like two or three levels higher was going to be like six tall or something but they took it out because all these wieners who were playtesting it were like no it's too tall i can't see the back of the playfield when when when i want to see the ball or whatever i don't know some loser stuff like that the first hook i had had the stacked trees the big century oh the b8 is so much better see so much better i don't know if it was i'm not gonna say it was a prototype but it was an early production and it made the world of difference because it has the taller trees in it it's dope even when they trim the tree what's and what you see it's still dope so it's still good put the rope light on the ramp the big twizzler yeah you mean groundbreaking does it work on any hook yes i don't know if i've ever seen one like talking about it works because you're playing some broke-ass hooks you're playing broke-ass hooks don't judge it on its worst day dude the groundbreaking twizzler light yeah dude nobody had done that before yeah i guess they did well it stood out to you didn't it you noticed it now it did you remember i noticed it you remembered it you brought it up oh that's interesting it serves no value it doesn't make any sense why is it even there oh you well you brought it up you looked right at it i did it drew your attention i did look right the light show game is amazing it is when you start getting everything flashing it's it's just in your face and it's top notch the art on it's amazing like you said we don't need to get i want to get into these hater reviews because i want but like paul ferris did it he's a fucking legend there's a giant crocodile eating the start button on the cabinet oh the cabinet art is so fucking good oh yeah yeah fucking good like there's the giant captain hook extending his hook arms towards the flipper across the playfield you know like it was absolutely gorgeous yeah and the side of the cabinet art with the skeleton and the ship. Like, dude, it is so sick. But Alex is going to read us these hate reviews, AJ, one at a time. And then we're going to react to them, OK? Yeah, there's quite a few here. Just, you know, brace yourself. Unfortunately, there's too many here. Brace yourself, lad, because this is really going to hurt. First up, though, is from Homebrewed. He says, I think the theme is terrible because that movie sucks. We don't know each other and I doubt that we have very much in common. but i think it's a great game if you liked that horrible dog of a movie then go for it fuck this guy dude yeah that guy's he said it's a great game no but he said the theme is terrible and if you like that horrible dog a movie then go for it i don't even want his liking this great game well zadosi the next one says this game's ugly and like many data east games isn't very fun either okay sucks dude dude okay okay we got some logic coming in from captain adam 21 he says the art is very nice and it looks good with leds it just got old fast might be fun in a larger collection but once you learn a few shots it gets boring plus that damn rooster crowing and the yelling of bangerang non-stop got quite annoying yeah but he remembers the rooster crowing and the bang rings yeah yeah that's the defense for any it's iconic dude you're like oh is it too memorable oh i'm sorry you don't want to remember hey bucko get yourself a hot dog is that annoying i'm sorry when robin williams learns how to when crows yeah dude it's a big part of the movie if you didn't feel that it's called theme integration alex follow rules says hook just gets boring very fast neat looking game but horrible sounds the chicken call out in the bangerang dot dot dot the big ramp covers most of the play field there are not a lot of shots on it and the oversized translate just did not care for it oh i'm sorry I don't want all this extra cool art in the extra tall back glass package. I don't like my games to be tall and beautiful. Okay, so you like Costanza's. You're like Alex. Okay, that's fine. You like short, little, neurotic bald men. That's fine. He says there's not a lot of shots. I feel like there's a shit ton of shots on it. That thing's full of shots. Right? It's got a good layout. It's got, I like it. It probably didn't have like a working Twizzler ramp or light ramp or whatever. The Twizzler ramp.
    20:30
    He didn't get the full enjoyment. These callouts are fucking great, dude. And if you like the movie, they're even better. Like, yes, they happen a lot. There's more callouts with the chat H code. This is, that's interesting. We gotta play one with this new code. We have to. This next review is probably the one that I would actually agree with, so far anyway. And Connectacross says, Hook has an interesting rule set, but every cool feature the designers wanted players to see is unbalanced by looping the ramp for 3 million over and over and over. That's, you can't, that's not... yeah i agree 100 with you that's the problem i can't disagree with that the school that's what my no that's he's right that's the shit part about like a lot of the games we review on like where we die on this hill where we focus on them to die on this hill segments if no one tells you the rules exploit the games are fucking fun and once you know it that's the shitty part about games not getting code updates and we kind of touched on that in like the modern games and i keep bringing it up but it's like once you know the one unbalanced thing it's like shit But it's like, that shouldn't ruin the enjoyment of the game. Because what are we doing here? Are you just going to say, are you trying to just milk a high, like a GC? I guess you can. But it's like, are you just playing the game? Look at the whole ramp. Spamming the ramp. If you spam it. I don't know. When I play Scared Stiff, all I do is spam the ramp. It's the same thing. Same exact, same exact shot. Any ramp you can repeat. That's the hard part about like balancing rules for any game with a repeatable ramp shot. Here's the thing. The ramp is one of the best ramps in pinball history. Period. and the call odds you get for doing it and it pays you for doing it over and over again i do think there should be a limit on it i do think that i want to play this chat age code because i'm sure he fixed this that's what i want i think it is fixed in that it balances a lot of the scoring out that's what i was looking i was just skimming it while we've been talking and it looks like they upped the scoring of a lot of other shit which would really help because that's the thing is like it gives you all these hurry ups this is the games also right before modes really yeah lights camera action came out that's the first game kind of considered to have modes adam's family like i said came out two months later that game is the first game that most people have played that sort of starts to have modes and so like this is before that so these have all these moments it's telling you shoot here and shoot here and you get croc time and all this stuff but they're kind of they're not really modes yeah they're really singular yes And so it would be cool to play this layout with this theme with modes and a more balanced rule set. But this game, just walking up and just playing it are super fucking fun, super enjoyable. And that ramp is super cool. I will say, if played a bad copy of Hook and the flippers are weak, it's really hard to make that left ramp over and over again. And then the rule set is not exploitable at all. Then you got to play the rest of the game You just need some weaker flippers are you saying like if you if you play a shitty copy it not so exploitable ah interesting it one of those games that makes you play the whole play field if you really if you really play the game we do like play the whole play field that's like like uh gilligan's island a classic die on this hill kind of won us over once we it's like okay i like that but you know who doesn't like hook is uh v monroe who says i'm not sure whether the illumination was off and was just badly maintained but it was an entirely forgettable experience except for the fun spiral ramp and the skull in the center of the playfield the epitome of meh the pretty meh review yeah it is a meh review fuck this v monroe dude the illumination was off i'm sorry all the gi was burned out and the game was all shitty like like that's not the game's fault we've got we got a big one here from the philosopher metal philosopher says this table was also at my college lesson one why parents hate their children this review is already i'm just stopping the review is assuming we have a backstory knowledge of this guy which i think is funny like this game was also at my college yeah well he's just trying to say like i'm an expert on this table was also in my college and i played it a decent amount mostly because it only cost 25 cents a game versus 50 cents for the other tables that said i never liked it that much yeah you kept playing it the enormous spiraling ramp is certainly eye-catching at first, but I just don't like it. Aesthetically, it overwhelms the whole table. I always remember Hook as that game with the giant ramp instead of that great Peter Pan theme table. On the positive side, the back glass is very well done. It's not my favorite theme, but I must admit it plays up the adventure and uplifting nature of the story. Gameplay-wise, I just really don't dig it. I always found myself failing to make shots, not clearing ramps, dying fairly cheaply, and getting really tired of Peter Pan cock-a-doodle-doing the whole time. not a i like how that keeps going up not a favorite but i remember my roommate's obsession with it fondly so clearly it has a niche smiley face your roommate has better taste than you this just sounds like that guy needs to play better i think it's funny how the rooster just keeps coming up i remember the banger call out more than the rooster cuber 1021 says i don't find hook to be very enjoyable the art and lighting are very poor which does not put me in a good frame of mine before i've even started the shots are not exciting perhaps give it the best shot and neither are the rules or the theme all in all it's a bit of a drag when compared to the data use machines that followed like lethal weapon 3 rocky and bullwinkle and jurassic park this one's a dud wait hold on what so he likes all those other data that's why i couldn't keep it together rocky i'm like what you're using rocky and bullwinkle as like the high standard you're Compared to the masterpiece that is Rocky and Bullwinkle. We covered, Alex and I already covered Lethal Weapon 3 on one of these, and we like Lethal Weapon 3. It's great. Hook is another great Data East game, and so is Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park's pretty good. Rocky and Bullwinkle, questionable here. And I find it disturbing that he's like, well, clearly Rocky and Bullwinkle is excellent. Now, if you're listening to this podcast and you want to come on the show and defend Rocky and Bullwinkle, we're ready to have you on. Yeah, we need some more Canadian representation. If you're Canadian, you like Rocky and Bullwinkle. We want you on the show. Oh, you have to be Canadian to like Rocky and Bullwinkle? It's a Canadian thing. Why? Because there's Mounties? I don't know. It's a fucking Canadian. I don't argue. Why is Russia a Canadian thing? It just is, Alan. We have moose here. I think Rocky and Bullwinkle, for whatever reason, I have it in my head. It's Canadian. Like it was made in Canada? I think so. Or only Canadians like it? I would just say definitely the latter. Only Canadians like it. I will say for the listeners here, Alex is a dual citizen, so he is Canadian. I have only in my entire life heard Rocky and Bullwinkle discussed – In a Tim Hortons? I've only heard it discussed by Canadians. So now I'm just like – maybe I'm just like it's my bias. Maybe for some it's just a small – it's anecdotal. But either way, now I want a Canadian to get on here and talk about Rocky and Bullwinkle.
    27:19
    I would love to hear that. So this guy, what did he say? He said that the art and the lighting's poor. We keep coming back to poor lighting. I'm wondering if other people are having the same experience as me, and they're just playing broken games. If you get that thing lit up, it's gorgeous. It is gorgeous. I do think that there is some spots in that play field where, one, all these games just come with incandescence. Now we're living in a world where you play games that are brightly lit by LEDs, and so you play an old game with some burned-out incandescence already. I also think that they put less sockets in. Like, Data East was kind of the cheaper company than Bally Williams. So, like, they would get by with fewer, yeah, they would get by with fewer, like, kind of lamp sockets. Again, you can mod these things so that they look gorgeous and they're well lit. And that's what people do on every pinball machine nowadays anyway from any manufacturer is they add a lot of light and they add LED lighting. So it's not really a problem anymore. Again, this sounds like he was playing a poorly maintained copy. I also immediately, like Rocky and Bullwinkle aside, I don't trust this guy's judgment because he says that the shots are not exciting. The shots are exciting, yeah. It's kind of one of the most iconic, coolest ramps. And when it shoots the ball out of the skull? Yeah. Pretty cool, dude. It is pretty cool. And it's got that right ramp, too. It's got a big molded ramp on the back, doesn't it? It's got cool, like that's what I'm like. And the targets are hard to hit. Like, it's got drops down the left side, and then it's got these, like, kind of V of stand-up targets. And then you got the ones on the side. Yeah. Like, go up to the buck in the left rear. Yeah. So, your next review is short. It's from Isochronic Frost. He says, a terrible missed opportunity in one of Data East's worst games next to Back to the Future. My word is my bond. Yeah, junk bond.
    29:10
    No fucking way, dude. Okay, hold on. That's harsh. So he likes the movie if he thinks this is a terrible missed opportunity, which kind of stings to be like you like the movie and you're like, they really blew it with this game. Here's the problem, and I want to get AJ to say, first of all, Back to the Future is a terrible fucking game. Horrible. When he says this is one of Data East's worst games next to Back to the Future, he's right. Like Back to the Future is one of the worst games they ever made. Again, we'll repeat this. If you are listening and you love Back to the Future, unironically, please send an email to WedgeheadInfo at gmail.com and say you'd like to defend this piece of trash. I'd love to have you on the show and put you in the hot seat. What I find offensive, and I want to hear AJ's take, is that you're comparing Hook to Back to the Future when there's another game that should be defended, Phantom of the Opera. That game sucks. I like it. I'm cool with it. Ooh, okay. I'm cool with it. I played one so long ago, I remember liking it, and then Alan and I can't remember what other guests lit me up. And I was like, ah, that game's kind of fun. And you're like, no, it's not. And I was like, I remember it being fun. I think it's terrible. It's playable. There's like a 45-degree angle ramp or something that pops up. Yeah, and it's terrible. It's so – I'm just immediately like, what the fuck is this? The one that really disappointed me, which is what this guy is saying, where he's like, what a missed opportunity and one of the worst games, Batman. Daddy is Batman. Batman, that's garbage. I love that movie. It was based on the Tim Burton Batman. Like, it looks cool, but when you play it, it's really bad. You know what game's cool, though? Sega Batman. Sega Batman is cooler. Sega Batman is cool. That's cool.
    30:50
    Yeah. Just going off. Batman Forever? Yeah, Batman Forever. Yeah. Shit. Okay, I'm going off topic. I need to get back to reviews. Raleigh D says, wouldn't want to own again. Gameplay is rather clunky with no real hell yeah shots. Bang around! The ramp. Love the theme and the artwork. The wind coaster ramp. Loves the theme and the artwork. The skull and wind coaster ramp are nice-looking features, but just aren't a whole lot of fun to hit, honestly. I've lost my marbles. What the fuck do you want? Sounds like he has weave flippers. Yeah, I'm like, how is that not fun to hit? Dude, you get sound call-outs, you get light shows when you hit it, you get the crowing, which everyone seems to not like. I think when you hit that ramp over and over again, you literally say, hell yeah. yeah that's what i would say it's that's kind of the hell yeah that's kind of the best part of it because it's like especially with the factory code and that's how you get your points you're like fuck yeah seal clubber says man i seal clubber is a good name also seal clubber says man i really don't like this game it looks cheap plays like a bore and there are a few call outs which are so annoying i really don't want to play it ever again why didn't somebody just shoot me in the head what do you think about that aj if it depends you can't compare this to a value williams WPC game. You can't. It does look cheap compared to, let's say, let's go Addams Family. Good example. Sure. It does look cheap. It feels cheap. Eh, that's not what it's about. It's not about that. It's still by today's standards. A lot of it doesn't look cheap by today's standards. No. And I think that it's also like, what people are failing to realize is, this is why I brought it up at the intro to this episode, is that this was two months before Addams Family. Addams Family comes out. the world's about to change because two years before that funhouse comes out and i think funhouse is sort of the first game where it's like you have a big well not the first game because it's probably pinbot maybe with the rising bank visor but it's like the big mechanical thing you're just starting to get that you don't really have modes yet even in funhouse you don't really have modes you get it in adam's family so this is before that so we got to go back to a time when like you can't compare it to like attack for mars medieval madness those later not at all it doesn't have wizard modes it doesn't have you know all this extra stuff but it does have ramps it has hurry ups it has good call outs it has a tiny little dmd screen with nice little animations and i think that this is one of the best overall packages that they did as far as like art and theme integration and the world under glass i think this is one of the best games they ever made the best game they I'll stand by that. Okay. It's one of the best games that Data East ever made. I stand by that. Yeah, I feel like that's not too hot of a take. I like Data East games. I'll let it go. Mostly.
    33:40
    Nasco62 says, not a big fan of this game. The first time I played it was at a big showroom. Found it boring then. A week later, went to buy a pen with a choice of three for sale. The guy kept saying Hook was the best game to play. I played it again and found the game boring again. There doesn't seem to be any great shots. and peter pan seems like a dumb theme for a pen but each to his own definitely not on my wish list i hate i hate i hate peter pan what it doesn't seem to be any great shots peter pan seems like a dumb theme for a pin but to each their own i just like i was like i found it boring someone told me to play it found it boring again i'm like damn he's consistent that guy probably thought Taxi was a great theme.
    34:28
    Yeah, I'm like Peter Pan today. I'm like, I don't think this is any dumber than any other theme. It's not any dumber, and it's also Hook. So it's not Peter Pan, okay? It's Hook. It's about Captain Hook. Well, it's a big successful movie, right? Like, it made a shit ton of money, I assume. It did make a shit ton of money. I know, it's not. Massively successful. Yeah. And so you're like, how is that? You're like, I'm sorry. The giant blockbuster movie wasn't a good theme. That came out this time. like this was concurrent too he probably just confused he like no idea it based on a movie it like what the fuck going on here it would be like if today we got a dune yeah we got the barbie pinball machine last summer like that's the equivalent of like when this game came out doing would make sense like it made a lot of money but it's kind of trash we all know it wow he's trying to pick a fight now i just don't know alan's a big dune fan i love dune i love the books oh man he just likes timothy chalamet i love Timothy. Game Room Guru says one of Data East's worst, and that's saying a lot. He's an old fat crapper, man. Use this pin for a boat anchor. Appealing spawn, how I despise them. Damn, dude. What? That's harsh. These people are rough, man. One of their worst, I'm like, I guess we know it because we saw the number, and this thing's like damn near the bottom of the list of rated games ever yeah but to me i'm just like turtles that's a data east right turtles is definitely worse fumbled massive theme simpsons is a piece of shit agreed back to the future is a piece of shit batman's a piece of shit those are all like massive massive themes that they fumbled and people so for people to call out like hook and you're like dude okay have you not played any of these other games the only thing i'll say is like maybe it's not as good as robocop maybe robocop's the best out of these games. Robocop rules. But that's like, maybe that's what I'll say. I also love Lethal Weapon 3. We talked about that game. That game fucking rules. I like Royal Rumble. I like that game too. But this is, Hook is in those games. Like, Hook is there. It hangs with those, no problem. It's all right up there with those. I'm really genuinely surprised that people dislike this as much as they do. It's interesting to me. Last review here, it's from GMCTier. Is it you? My great and worthy opponent?
    36:54
    But it can't be. Not this pitiful, spineless, pasty, floated codfish I see before me. I don't know how to pronounce it, but this guy says, Complete and utter dumpster fire. I almost bought one of these once, and I'm glad I went with Goldeneye instead. First of all, maybe the worst theme of all time. My great and worthy opponent? Yes. No! Worse than Hard Body. I mean, the movie sucked so hard. A Peter Pan reboot sequel? You paunchy, sag-bottom, puke-pot! Starring a clearly-doesn't-wanna-do-this Robin Williams? What? Whose bright idea was that? You are a fart factory. Slug-slimed sack of rat guts and cat vomit. Cheesy, scab-picked, pimple-squeezing finger bandage. A week-old maggot burger with everything on it and flies on the side. Back to the pen, though. There are absolutely no fun toys or gimmicks. The scoring is unbalanced and insane, the wind coaster shot sucks, and it's the closest thing to interesting in the whole game. Annoying, repetitive call-outs just keep coming. Substitute chemistry teacher. Mongtongue. Math tutor. Pinhead. Prison barber. Muddle lover. Nearsighted gynecologist. In your face, camel cake! In your rear, cow derriere. lion crying spying prying ultra pig you lewd crude rude bag of pre-chewed food dude this dm clock keeps ticking i referenced it in one of my other reviews i get why beginners like it but i see no value in it other than that he took my toy she hit my bear i want a potty i want a cookie i want to stay up i want i want i want me me me me mine mine mine mine now now now wow that guy likes root canals dude that guy that guy fucking went in dude complete another dumpster fire that's his first sentence and then he says maybe the worst thing of all time dude the amount of people that were like this theme sucks is wild to me there are probably some old ass dudes sitting in their rocking chair and didn't enjoy life what do you want old man they didn't grow up with the like if you grew up with it so i've never seen i've never seen this movie dude i've not we gotta watch this movie together seem like any of it i don't i understand the premise just from like this like i know it's robin williams doesn't realize he's peter pan or whatever and goes back i have no fucking idea how people would argue this is a worse theme there's so many shit movies that got turned into pins that like don't make sense he said a peter pan reboot sequel starring a clearly doesn't want to do this robin williams no if you've seen the fucking movie he is amazing so the beginning of the movie imagine robin williams phoning in a steven spielberg role like no robin williams crushes it what i'm thinking happened is he saw like the first uh i don't know like act of the movie like the first third of the movie when he doesn't want to be peter pan where he's a shitty dad to his kids he's like a businessman he doesn't have any time for him he's forgotten his real life yeah and then it's like but then he goes to neverland he doesn't want to be there because like i gotta get back to work you know like i'm a high powered executive and all this bullshit right don't mess with me man i'm a lawyer but then he realizes all the lost boys you know the one little chubby fat kid puts his hands on his face he goes there you are there you are peter yeah that's right there dude it's magical bro like seriously the movie is magic the movie's magic and the pin is magic yeah it feels like the movie it has patched code apparently that gets rid of the one valid criticism i want to get that guy we gotta to get this you get the code we gotta get the code we gotta get a hook and we gotta get the code and watch i'm gonna go buy one like in the next week or two and i'm just gonna send it to you guys we'll do a game swap we'll send you a good em yeah we'll send you something good now i'm in i'm in 100 we'll come down to pueblo and fucking play it dude yeah i'd love to in law that's from there yeah i would love that yeah let's do this this is like wind coaster shot sucks fuck that dude the shot is amazing is it overvalued yes but the shot doesn't suck seeing like there's no toys or gimmicks and stuff and you're like i don't know there's a gigantic skull that shoots the ball like you shoot into and it shoots back out right there's a whole ass pirate ship there's yeah a lot of shit going on what's the skill shot like i told you about like an insane thematic ramp it's like i don't know like you're you're right that i think a lot of people are expecting this to be a late 90s game and it's not and it's not yeah and you're like it's a different thing and it also doesn't make the game worse i'm like i'm a stern pro guy i'm not a premium guy i think almost always less moving shit just means the game's gonna move faster and i think hook's a good example of that oh yeah when it came out what 92 was it 92 or 91 so think about 91 like you're teeter-tottering the whole like system 11 era yeah end of the system 11 compare this game to mouse and around that's what it is it's yeah don't compare it to attack for mars yeah like roller games yeah he said he goes this is worse than hard body as like the worst theme of all time you can't compare it you also hard body is a fucking sick theme dude yeah i just agree yeah like because that's the thing it's like i've got a friend that bought hard body without ever having to play it purely because of the theme i got a hard body story for you guys later on. It's great. I can't wait. Okay, well, should we wrap this episode up, Alan? Yeah. Adam, I just want to thank you for agreeing to join the show once again. For anyone that's listened to the previous episode, AJ, as we've been calling him, Adam, AJ is his nickname, coming back on the show. He's the owner-operator of Flip A Coin Arcade in Pueblo, Colorado, inside the Bite Me Cake Company. and he loves Hook and when we were talking online he was like I don't know what game I would do and then I think you asked me like what game would you do I was like well I've always wanted to do Hook because I love that game that game gets absolutely shit on and you're like dude I love Hook I had a Hook that was the first game I ever operated there it is I mean that's reason enough I was like well then you're definitely coming on and then as I was gathering all the steam for this episode I was like no I gotta sit in with you man you and I are gonna there's too many haters for this game we had to go at it together again i just keep i'm like in shock that as many people hate this thing as they do because it's so much better than so many games i know i agree dude that's why we're here the unbalanced scoring it's just wild to me so i'm like the only thing that sucks about it is the unbalanced scoring that's the only thing i'll give them yeah that's fixable it's all fixable yeah it sounds like somebody already did fix it so i can't wait to play that for anyone else that's listening thank you once again for tuning into another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. If you have a chance, use the pinball map. Try to find a location that has a hook. Also, if you run into a hook and it's not playing well, that's just a bad operator. The game's still good. Okay? Give it another chance. If you go to a show or anything, you get to play a cool one. Go out and do it. For everyone else, just go play any pinball you can find. And since we're talking about Data East, and everyone likes to shit on Data East, if you don't have a hook near you, play the nearest Data East instead. Yeah. Check it out. Because those games we roasted some of them they're pretty fun a lot of them are pretty fun and get bagged on for no reason but until next time good luck don't suck
    44:43
    © BF-WATCH TV 2021 No stopping me this time, Smee. This is it. Don't make a move, Smee. Not a step. My finger's on the trigger. Don't try to stop me, Smee. I'm not a game. This is it. Don't try to stop me this time, Smee. Don't you dare try to stop me this time, Smee. Try to stop me.
    46:11
    Smee, you better get up. Off your ass, get over here, Sveig. I'm coming, Sveig. This is not a joke. I'm committing a suicide.
    46:25
    Don't ever frighten me like that again. I'm sorry. Well, I'm some kind of a sadist. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. How do you feel now?
    46:31
    I want to die. Oh, no, no, no. There's no adventure here. You call this no adventure? Death is the only great adventure. Come on, let's get you into the mirror.