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Bob Thurman - Pinball repair and Restoration

Pintastic New England·video·1h 0m·analyzed·Aug 30, 2018
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.024

TL;DR

Veteran pinball technician Bob Thurman shares 40+ years of repair expertise in buyer guidance seminar.

Summary

Bob Thurman, a Long Island-based pinball repair technician with over 40 years of experience, delivers a seminar at Pintastic New England covering pinball machine selection, condition assessment (A-F scale), pricing, sourcing, and basic troubleshooting. He emphasizes the importance of low-risk purchase sources like pinball shows and established retailers, discusses environmental and housing considerations, and provides practical guidance for first-time pinball machine buyers.

Key Claims

  • Bob Thurman has over 40 years of experience fixing pinball machines, with over 400 pinball customers in his database spanning from Boston to Chicago to Richmond, Virginia.

    high confidence · Bob Thurman, speaking about his professional background and customer base

  • Pinball machines from the 1950s-1960s tend to play slower than games from the 1970s and beyond.

    medium confidence · Bob Thurman, offering general observation about game design evolution

  • Typical price range for pinball machines is $300-$3,000 for most consumer purchases, with higher-end machines ranging from $3,000-$15,000+ for rare, fully restored, or one-of-a-kind machines.

    medium confidence · Bob Thurman, based on his observations over many years in the industry

  • Machines in California and West Coast locations typically have higher asking prices than the same machines sold in the Midwest or East Coast.

    medium confidence · Bob Thurman, discussing the 'geometry factor' in pricing

  • A minimum ceiling height of 8 feet is needed to properly service the underside of a pinball machine's playfield.

    high confidence · Bob Thurman, explaining practical space requirements for machine maintenance

  • The two biggest enemies of pinball machines are changes in temperature and changes in humidity.

    high confidence · Bob Thurman, emphasizing environmental preservation requirements

  • Bob Thurman attended Cal's Coin College in Oklahoma City in the late 1970s for a three-week intensive course on pinball repair.

    high confidence · Bob Thurman, recounting his educational background

  • Bob Thurman worked for a street vendor operator in the South Bronx in fall 1978 and had his toolbox stolen twice during that period.

    high confidence · Bob Thurman, sharing personal anecdotes from his career history

Notable Quotes

  • “Well, once again, thank you very much, Dave. In fact, Dave Marston has definitely been instrumental the last couple of months to assist me in preparing this presentation for you.”

    Bob Thurman@ 1:14 — Acknowledges organizer support and establishes credibility for the seminar

  • “My first pinball machine, stupidly sold it in 1991. Folks, when you buy your first pinball machine, assuming you develop any kind of attachment toward it, try not to sell it.”

    Bob Thurman@ 7:39 — Personal advice and cautionary tale about first machine ownership

  • “Generally speaking, the highest prices, new in the box, fully restored, rare, that's no production The Games, one-of-a-kind, custom, high demand, excellent condition, $3,000 to $15,000 and up.”

    Bob Thurman@ 26:35 — Establishes pricing expectations for premium machines

  • “The two biggest enemies of pinballs are changes in temperature and changes in humidity. Thus, you want to try and keep those two within a fairly narrow range if you can.”

    Bob Thurman@ 18:01 — Key preservation guidance for machine owners

  • “It's fun. It's simply fun. It's a very unique form of entertainment, self-involved entertainment, human versus machine.”

    Bob Thurman@ 11:29 — Articulates the core appeal of pinball machines

  • “Pinball machines are made of wood, glass, steel, plastic. We know what happens when wood gets either, it absorbs moisture, either from humidity in the air, or of course it gets wet.”

    Bob Thurman — Technical explanation of material vulnerability to environmental factors

Entities

Bob ThurmanpersonDave MarstonpersonPintastic New EnglandeventCal's Coin CollegeorganizationHoward SternpersonPalisades Amusement ParkorganizationHarry WilliamscompanyBallycompanyMills Novelty Companycompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Bob Thurman's inaugural seminar at Pintastic New England demonstrates publisher/venue commitment to education and community building through expert presentations

    high · Seminar is Bob's first public presentation despite 40+ years of industry experience; praised show's organization and community focus

  • ?

    community_signal: Established pinball community resources (New England Arcade Collector's Forum, PinSight, MrPinball) facilitate parts sourcing and machine trading

    high · Bob explicitly recommends these as low-risk sources for buying and selling machines and parts

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.182

0:00
My first pinball machine back in 1967. So it does happen, and I had to figure out a lot of stuff on my own. And there was no pinball community of any kind back then, so we're a lot luckier now. I met Bob Thurman a long time ago, probably at a pinball expo. And then he was around for the New England Pin Fest that we used to do in the early 90s. And never got up front in giving a presentation at a pinball show, even though that's the kind of thing that he does. He's familiar with being behind a microphone, so we finally got him to talk about pinball. So Dr. Pinball, there's a lot of Dr. Pinballs at the show today, I think, but one of the Dr. Pinballs from Long Island, Bob Thurman.
1:03
Thank you. Thank you, Dave. Good afternoon, everyone. If you could please do that, I'd appreciate it. Well, once again, thank you very much, Dave. In fact, Dave Marston has definitely been instrumental the last couple of months to assist me in preparing this presentation for you. Presentation is about 45 minutes, with 15 minutes question and answers afterwards. So if you'd kindly hold your questions until the end, I'd appreciate it. Well, this is my inaugural seminar.
1:37
Although, thankfully, having a background briefly of being an actor on stage in the 1980s in community theater for six years definitely helped. Definitely helped that I graduated from Canadian School of Broadcasting in 93, thus the radio-style voice, as well as over 40 years fixing pinball machines, mostly electromechanicals, but I do solid stakes as well. So anyway, this hopefully will be an informative seminar for all of you, especially those who are new to the world of pinball. Title A to F, not Z. If we were covering A to Z, I would be here until next year. But A to F, we'll get to one of our slides later that will explain what A to F is. In any case, the seminar, as it says, is primarily for those who are new to the world of pinball. You may have never owned a game, or you are thinking about getting a game. You're talking to our vendors about possibly buying a game, but you've never owned one just yet. Or, in fact, there are a lot of people here in our audience that are currently pinball owners. But what are the reasons you have problems with some of your games? And perhaps I can shed some light on that and help you out with those.
@ 17:29

  • “Let the buyer beware. Proceed with caution. Seeing yellow.”

    Bob Thurman@ 24:44 — Warning about high-risk purchase sources like Craigslist and eBay

    • Twilight Zonegame
    Captain Fantasticgame
    Space Invadersgame
    Bad Catsgame
    New England Arcade Collector's Forumorganization
    PinSightorganization
    MrPinballorganization
    2:49
    And again, folks, we're talking the real deal here. We're not talking about that little toy pinball you got from Toys R Us. Which is out of business now. Which is going under right now, as we speak. And very simply, we're talking about, obviously, as we have here, the 250-pound monsters, full-size, coin-operated, games you played in bowling alleys, the arcades, the amusement parks, and who knows where else. And hopefully you had a great time doing so. I certainly have. Now, you may be wondering, who the heck is this guy, this guy, Dr. Tenball Bob Thurman? Who the heck does he think he is? Is he perhaps Tommy, the deaf, dumb, and blind kid from the movie? Elton John No, not really Gene Simmons on Rock Group Kiss Guys, I don't have a 7 inch tongue like him Indiana Jones Well, we both have an adventuresome spirit in us Let me tell you right now But unlike Jones, I do touch anything Or maybe this guy in black Bad microphone. Anyway, bad case of asthma. Or perhaps the furry guy down at the end.
    4:07
    What's that, Doc? I thought it was pretty good. Pretty good. No, no, no, no, no. Actually, he's just really a guy who is a true star. That's a certain star. A grand guy, William's Grand Prix. or a man of all dimensions. That's a godly dimension I'm living.
    4:29
    That was a tough move up all those steps, too. No, no, no, really. He's just a guy that loves talking pinball, fixing pinball, and going to first-rate quality shows at Fantastic New England. This is our fourth year in a row, fourth annual show. And from 2015, the very first show, when I first came up here, naturally, you don't know what to expect. And first-time show, you can't be sure what's going to happen. I come in here, I am thoroughly impressed, and I'm still impressed. This is a first-rate show, folks, and I'm serious about that. These folks have worked very hard, tons of planning, great location, and just a lot of fun machines to play and a lot of things to do.
    5:09
    As for me, yes, I've had a 40-year love affair with this little guy. Very briefly, the year is 1969. I'm 10 years old. Palisades Invisibility Park. Anybody go up to Palisades Business Park in New Jersey? Great, great. Well, there was a game room underneath the roller coaster. Guess what was in that game room? You got it. It's called pinball machines. It started there for me and progressed. Our family lived in Fairfield County, Connecticut. And so naturally, during my early teens, I got damn good at playing the game. But at an early age, I also smartly realized, realistically, I couldn't earn a living winning money from pinball tournaments. But fixing them? First machine, a Williams Stratoflight, 1974. I learned a lot from that machine, about electricity and everything else needed to repair that game.
    6:02
    Graduated from high school doing very well. Went to tech college for a year after that, trying to get an electrical engineering degree, but that did not work out. But that same year, somebody from the industry also told me about Cal's Coin College in Oklahoma City, a specialty school specifically to teach you how to fix pinballs, both electromechanical and solid state, because at that time we had a transition of technology of the games themselves. Three weeks at Cal's Coin College, we were smoking.
    6:34
    And it's not that the machines were smoking, the instructor was smoking. The worst chain smoker I ever ran into. I and the other eight students around the country who were gathered together for three weeks had to endure his smoking, but that's the way it was. Then in the fall of 78, after a couple of months of searching, did land a full-time job working for a street-ground vendor in the marvelous South Bronx of New York City. Anybody who's been to the South Bronx kind of knows it's not exactly the best area of New York. years I've worked for that guy and during that entire time, thankfully I was never mugged. I did my toolbox taken twice. Oh boy. And then because of the video game boom, eventually unfortunately like many small time vending operators, he folded. And I went freelance from that point on. Today I can boast I have over 400 pinball customers in my database spreading out from Boston here all the way to Chicago to one in Richmond, Virginia. But the vast majority are within my New York City, Long Island area. My first pinball machine, stupidly sold it in 1991. Folks, when you buy your first pinball machine, assuming you devolve any kind of attachment toward it, try not to sell it. The last I heard, that machine was somewhere on the West Coast, in Frisco or Arizona. I'd like to get it back, but if I don't, it's no big deal. Currently, well, like anybody else in the business, I've had personal collections ranging from 42 machines to two, currently two. A Bally Fireball and the one you can play right here at the show, 1932 Mills Novelty Company Official. Best Conversation Starter of the Show. Literally, it is the great, great granddaddy of where pinball originated from, before flippers. Now, all this thing is used to know electricity. It literally is as simple as you can get.
    8:35
    Some of the places I've fixed dentists. Just briefly highlighting just a couple of them. The Psycho Ward. That was very interesting going into a major psychological hospital in Queens. And it was very interesting having a security guard by my side watching over me because we had these interesting psycho patients walking around and fascinatingly watching me open up a Williams Jackpot to fix it. And also in the meantime, Howard Stern. I've had the privilege of a couple of celebrities' houses, being in there to fix their pinballs. Howard Stern with a Williams Spire power. That was 1980 before you really kind of hit it big with his career. And finally, perhaps the most very satisfying, a production of Tommy by a local theater group. Most theater groups have just put together in the props department some crates and what not and a simulated pinball machine for the sake of the weight, Not this one. They were using two real pins. Williams triple action and another Williams game from the time period. And I was assigned, basically, again, it was word of my reputation that got me in there, to basically watch over the pins, keep them fixed, keep them working through the entire rehearsal period, assisting the stage hands in moving the pinballs between scenes. And I was there for the entire run of the show, all nine shows as well. And of course I've been in all kinds of houses today. As the market began to gravitate toward home sales in the 1980s and beyond, and also in private homes, I've been in all kinds of homes, folks. Specifically, one of the most memorable places is a mansion in the Hamptons in Long Island by a very prestigious attorney who I will not name. I've had the privilege of being in a state four times over the last 20 years. In this 40-year estate, he built his own in-ground swimming pool and also built a beach house next to the swimming pool. Guess what's in the swimming pool? Good old Captain Fantastic, one of my favorite games. And it's been very nice when some nice scanty-flag lady comes out of that swimming pool to watch me fix the pinballs. So that was a lot of fun. And in New Jersey, Nudist Resort, a couple of Dutch mechanicals. That was 1979 in New Jersey. That was interesting. And a high class swickers place in midtown Manhattan. I'm talking a prestigious club, okay, with a bouncer and all kinds of things. The point is, the Space Invaders pinball was in the front lobby. All the action was behind closed doors in the back, so there was really nothing to get too excited about there. That was an interesting service call that my boss sent me on back in 1980.
    11:17
    Now we get to the crux of it, folks. Why get a pinball machine? Why did I get a pinball machine? We got too much work in the house already. No problem. First of all, folks, as we all know, it's fun. It's simply fun. It's a very unique form of entertainment, self-involved entertainment, human versus machine. Eventually, we know the machine eventually wins. You can do damn good at times. And the point is playing skills, folks, hand-eye coordination. A machine in your own home, you don't put points on it. It seriously relieves stress also. So come home from a hard day at the office, okay, you want to get at that machine, and then you feel a little better afterwards, even if you don't score many points. It takes relationships, too, same reason.
    12:02
    And you can become more popular if you have a lot of parties in your house. I'm sure some of you may be considering that factor. If you like to hold parties in your house, what better unique thing to have for people to have fun on, okay? Or perhaps you simply want to learn how they work. You want to be able to relax at home, take your time, dig inside the machine, and just see what makes it tick.
    12:24
    More reasons. Well, many reasons, like there's different themes, the action, the sounds, features. And most important of all, for most of us, reliving our childhood memories. Those memories that, you know, come back to flood you, especially if here at the show you encounter one of your favorite games or a game you grew up with. And sometimes you're able to get that game for your home. Now, what kind of games should we get? What types? Well, just like carters, there's a game for everybody out there, literally speaking, folks. Very simply, anything that was popular at one time or another, most likely there's a pinball machine that was made for it. And that's still being done today by today's manufacturers. Anything that might generate interest, anything that might develop revenue for the operator, definitely that's a demo machine manufacturers will consider either getting a license for, or just simply creating on their own from scratch.
    13:24
    Playfield features. Well, as you know, there are a ton of different playfield layouts out there, whether it be the bumpers, drop targets, record targets, boulder berlings, kick out bolts.
    13:35
    Manufacturers were constantly redesigning playfields and trying to come up with combinations that would produce hit machines.
    13:42
    A lot of times mediocre success. But we do have a lot of winners out there too. The action, slow or fast.
    13:52
    Generally speaking, this is just a general rule of thumb. Games from the 50s and 60s tend to play a lot slower than games from the 70s and beyond. That's a broad interpretation. Simple or complex, this really hits me. Give me something that's simple. ABC, like the whole version of the ball, versus something like Twilight Zone. That to me, oh, forget about it. Unless you want me to change a rubber or a light bulb or something. It's a very, in my opinion, a very complex game to play. And I did not see the Twilight Zone series anyway. But for some people, that's what they want. And today's games, oh, buddy, if you want a lot of features and a lot of complexities, trust me, it's out there right now for you.
    14:35
    And another factor that can be very important when shopping for a game, Do you want something that's a standard narrow body or the wide body?
    14:48
    It's so nice to be able to work pictures on the computer, folks. It's also nice to be able to exactly something wider than my waistline.
    14:57
    Also, there's another mid-sized range of games. This is a picture pack I own the Williams hit I spent all of 2014 restoring that game It a a major project and I very happily happy to say it sits in a Cincinnati home right now But the size of the cabinet will kind of vary and as many other machines where the cabinet size will also vary. And again, if you have doors in your house that may be a bit smaller than the average width, could be an issue. So you want to try and keep that in mind if you're getting a game that's something other than standard narrow body.
    15:34
    And people, is it just for you? Or is it you and your wife? And what about the kids? Assuming your kids do have an interest in pinball at all and they're not on their virtual reality games all the time, but especially a whole party since it's going to be a lot of people, will the game generally appeal to a lot of people? Of course, only you can answer that question. Now, the house that it's going into. Okay. Okay, it looks like I missed something here with the props, but that's okay. Anyway, the house it's going into, a pinball-friendly house is what we want. Ideally, we have no steps, no narrower type doors, adequate room for the machine and people, of course. A minimum eight foot high ceiling.
    16:31
    That is eight feet, folks. Actually, the reason I bring up ceiling height is I have walked into some places where, especially in a basement, the ceiling is low, and I cannot raise the playfield all the way up to service the bottom portion of the underside of the playfield. So what I'm saying is that, while there's usually not too much of an issue with the ceiling, ceiling height, I have raised plate fields and scraped the ceiling slightly a bit to the dismay of the homeowner. So ceiling height actually can be a factor when determining what pinball, you know, where in the house you want to put your pinball. And of course, adequate lighting. And finally, a good environment. Now, long-term preservation of a pinball machine in a good environment is obviously indoors, shielded from the elements. Moderate, comfortable temperatures, moderate humidity, and you maintain these conditions all year round. Pinball machines are made of wood, glass, steel, plastic. We know what happens when wood gets either, it absorbs moisture, either from humidity in the air, or of course it gets wet. So you want to try and preserve the pinball machine as long as possible, and usually that's not too much of an issue. But if you have hot humid summers, you want to make sure the air condition is working where the game No misty basements, no hot attics, and please do remember, most importantly, two biggest enemies of pinballs are changes in temperature and changes in humidity. Thus, you want to try and keep those two within a fairly narrow range if you can. And of course, the unfriendly pinball house is the opposite of the friendly house. I will not bring a pinball machine up all those steps, I'll tell you right now. Two more things, sound and power.
    18:29
    As we focus in on these devices here. First concerning sound of pinball machines. Well, when it comes to sound, we have two major types. The electromechanical pinballs, as indicated by the three bar chime unit, whatever that is, three bar chime unit. Either you plug the chimes in or you leave them out. It's simply on and off when it comes to the sounds of electrical mechanicals. Earlier games used simple bells. The point is, if you have a situation where it's late at night, and you still want to play the game, but people are sleeping, or the neighbors are sleeping, you can unplug the chimes, unplug the bells, but that's it if you have an electrical mechanical thing. On the other hand, solid-state games, flying controls, and you can adjust them and fine-tune them up and down as loud or as soft as you want. So I admit that's an advantage that solid-state games have. over the electrical mechanicals. Now something which is usually not so much of an issue, but I briefly bring it up, voltage. Generally speaking, most, not almost all houses today have the proper 120 volts AC coming from the outlet and the outlet is properly grounded.
    19:41
    And where are our props there with the, yeah, those three, thank you. Folks, I gotta emphasize, grounding, especially for anything electronic.
    19:52
    Of course, we've all seen this in an hardware store, your simple three-prong plug, that's at the end of your line cord. But many times I've walked into games, pulled out the line cord, and this ground pin has been cut off.
    20:05
    Again, there are all kinds of reasons why, but the bottom line is that you wanna make sure that both your outlets and games are properly grounded, because anything electronic can be severely damaged by something called a voltage spike. Again, it's rare. Today's hand homes are pretty well up to code, as they say. But the point is, you want to make sure that you have three prongs on the end of your line cord on the pinball machine. The manufacturers took quite a bit of time and effort to put in ground grating throughout the machine, but it all comes down to that last ground pin on the plug. And power from the outlet. I had one case over the years, as it says at the bottom of this slide, had a Williams Smart Set, 1969 Smart Set. And it was located in an apartment that apparently had been converted for living space in an industrial building in Brooklyn. And the point is, I had to take a freight elevator to get up to this apartment, believe it or not. And I'm sorry, sure, this guy was having problems not just with his pinball, but with other stuff he had plugged in. He only had 101 volts coming out of the outlet. I told him to call Con Ed. The problem wasn't with the machines. But that's the extreme rare exception. After 40 years, you get all kinds of things.
    21:19
    Let's get to sources for pinballs. Now, two main categories, this is just my personal way of thinking of it, low risk and high risk.
    21:28
    Generally speaking, good sources or low risk sources to get a pinball machine are, well, you're seeing one right now, pinball shows. Okay, a wide variety of games to pick from, experienced people that are dedicated like me, and especially unique, one of a kind items you can only see at shows such as that translate at the bottom. At another show, the guy took on top there the original Gottlieb Raven translate picture and transformed it, as you can see at the bottom.
    21:59
    I like that. And there are other low-risk sources, such as pinball vendor stores, arcades, private collections, artists in the business, established pinball websites like pinsight.com and mrpinball.com. and this applies to both buyers and people looking to sell a game as well.
    22:20
    Now, if you have a game that looks like Hurricane Sandy hit it, I hope you can get that slide, that's a seriously flooded area there, and it's just too far gone, you're thinking of scrapping it, sending it to the pinball graveyard, don't worry folks, that slide I took from like the 1940s.
    22:39
    Don't do it. Instead, your pinball machine has usable parts in it, even if it's rusted out or it's pretty much just only good for parts. You still have sources like the New England Arcade Collector's Forum, other pinball retailers, perhaps somebody here at the show, and, of course, pinball websites. Today, of course, we have the Internet and tons of pinball websites. Back in Dave's time when you guys first came, that was a different world, obviously. Most machines, no matter how far gone, will still have usable parts. That's a picture from last year's show right here. Now, high-risk sources for buying games, they include all these guys here. Generally speaking, you have a higher risk if you go to Craigslist or eBay or other similar sites selling games, non-pinball websites. You've got to be more cautious. And the reason is a greater potential for problems. Game being sold from a non-industry source. Some guy off the street. Game probably not been played in years. The game has not been serviced since the age of the dinosaurs. Those of you who don't know, I owned a value for a million BC for a while. Hell of a game. Hell of a game. Great game. So what does this mean? Well, you could be taking home somebody else's headache. Most of the time, you will be. Even if you don't have to pay anything for the game, you are still going to have cost factors getting a thing in your vehicle, transporting it, getting it in your house or perhaps just storing it somewhere. And then you're going to have a lot of work in storing it most of the time. Again, maybe get lucky and maybe find something in reasonable shape. Maybe it even works. But there's no way to know. And of course, forget about a warranty. And unless you know what you're doing and have the right equipment to move a 250-pound I recommend you get somebody else who's more experienced. I've moved many a game, sometimes solo. Now it's getting more difficult at my age.
    24:44
    Gavin Hector, let the buyer beware. Proceed with caution. Ooh, seeing yellow. And you wanna ask yourself those important questions. And remember folks, very simply, bottom line, when you're shopping for a pinball, it's just like shopping for a car. You got to test drive the thing, you got to look under the hood.
    25:04
    Next, here's where we get to the title of our seminar. Ranges of game conditions, A through F, NIV, known as new in the box. That is literally a demo machine that was briefly tested at the factory, put into its crate, and now it's waiting for a new home. Literally speaking, almost no place, if none at all, brand new. Just like a new car off the car slide.
    25:32
    Excellent. Good. Fair. Poor. And piece of heart and soul. Let's keep it clean. Next, the most sensitive subject ever invented by human beings. Anybody guess what that is?
    25:51
    Anybody dare take a guess? Hmm? No. Cost. No. Cost. We've got to think about the cost. Oh, okay. I see. That's not close enough. Money.
    26:07
    Subject of money, folks. Definitely, I walk into a house and sure enough, the owner is asking me, Bob, how much is my game worth? Or Bob, how much is this game going to cost me? I get that question all the time. Well, here's your answer, generally speaking.
    26:27
    Generally speaking, price ranges for games, and again, this is probably strictly my opinion, though I base it on what I have observed over the many years, as you would expect, the highest prices, new in the box, fully restored, rare, that's no production games, one-of-a-kind, custom, high demand, excellent condition, $3,000 to $15,000 and up, but still in there fully working. That $50,000, twice in the last couple of months, guys, I've seen on MrPindle.com, I think it was one California guy and one Oregon guy advertising that price to sell their supposedly mint, one-of-a-kind pinball machines. I forget the names of the games. But that's the rare exception for that level. I saw one guy in Atlanta, Georgia, trying to sell an early 60s Williams game in fair condition for $17,000. I gave him a phone call to kind of correct him, shall we say.
    27:23
    Anyway, but again, people don't know. Most people in the street simply just don't know. Now the other end of the spectrum, which thankfully for most of us, is within our reach financially. Again, it may not be meant, maybe good, fair, poor, it may or may not work, but 300 to 3,000 is much more common, you'll happily know. And another factor, I call it the geometry factor. That is, generally speaking, games in California and the West Coast cost definitely more, or that is the asking prices for those games are definitely more than if you were to buy that game either in the middle of the country or perhaps even here on the East Coast. I think that's the most colorful slide in the presentation. I'm so happy I found that one. Finally, two more factors that can affect the price of the machine. Price guides. Yeah, we were here earlier, but anyway. Price guides, again, can be, as it says, just a guide, a range of price for a particular game. And seller motivation is probably even more important. That seller comes in and he really wants to get a couple of games sold. So he may be negotiable. If you can negotiate a price, it might be better for you.
    28:38
    Before you hand over your money, make sure we have an understanding as to how the machine is going to get from where it is to where you want it in your house. All right? Delivery, setup, adjustments, testing of the machine, and liability. This is a heavy sucker we're talking about. Okay? Is there an additional delivery fee? Okay? If somebody's charging an additional delivery fee, how much is it? How much is it? And so on. And usually it is worth paying that fee if you cannot move it yourself.
    29:06
    And a kind of warranty. Again, generally speaking, established vending companies will offer some kind of warranty a certain number of days. parts and labor, or just at least labor. And then, of course, for the larger companies, some of them will offer a trade-in maybe down the line, maybe a year or two down the line or a few years down the line, if for some reason you want to trade again in for something else. And again, this is all generally speaking, folks. Everybody's different. All vending companies are different. They have their own policies, their own procedures. So again, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, generally speaking. It will vary from company to company.
    29:45
    Other important delivery and setup points. If for some reason your seller is not delivering the game, you want to make sure that you, somebody, with experience in the business or your game may arrive in pieces. Regular moving companies will just basically bring in the game, dump it, and leave. And that's it. They're not going to do the other steps involved and get the game set up and running for you. And also an experienced industry person will take a few extra minutes to show you the details of opening up your game explain the features okay close it up make sure there a few extra parts in there make sure that you basically understand how to get into your game And also, please, make sure the papers, technical papers for the game are in the cabinet of the machine. Keep the papers for the machine in the machine. Repeat after me, class. Keep the papers for the machine in the machine.
    30:50
    You awake out there? Hopefully. You get the idea, folks. It's really frustrating. I'm walking into my house. There's no papers in the machine. The owner doesn't know where they are.
    31:00
    Okay, after the delivery, dum-dum-dum-dum, after the delivery, a few days after the delivery, you come home after a hard day's work. You go to the game room, turn on the remote, and nothing. It won't turn on. What will you do? Houston, we got a problem, all right? Well, no problem. No problem.
    31:24
    My special assistant will be very happy to fix it for you. Can you guys all see that? Now we get to chuckle.
    31:34
    Scrap that joke. Anyway, so really, what should you do? Try and fix it on your own or call somebody in? Well, generally speaking, if you're a novice and you really don't have a background in pinball, that's okay. You still can do a few things, such as make sure it's blood-minted. Make sure there's power in your output, which most likely there is.
    31:58
    Check the line core. Okay? This is a line core. This represents a line core. Make sure the line core seems to be intact, that nobody stepped on it or something like that. Make sure that it's firmly plugged in.
    32:13
    And if those seem to be good, then unplug the machine, open it up, and then check connections or your Jones-Plus, as we call them, electromechanical pins. Make sure your connectors are all firmly pushed in somebody can wiggle loose somewhere sometime.
    32:30
    You want to do a thorough inspection of any broken wires you can see. Anything that doesn't look right.
    32:38
    Anything that may have fallen from the underside of the playfield like a loose screw in an electric mechanical game falls on switches on one of the relays on the bottom and who knows what kind of problem that can cause you. And check your fuses. Fuses will generally be in three locations. The bottom board, side cabinet, and the underside of the playfield. Okay? Now, if any fuses are blown,
    33:01
    check all coils. This, of course, is the game's unplug. Check all coils. Now, I don't have a solenoid valve. Listen to this. I do have a solenoid coil here.
    33:11
    This is one that's good. Okay? The wrapper. Okay? It's in full color. But if this was brownish or blackish because it was shorted out, then that would be a different story and that would pop a fuse. And that's a very common problem if you have a stuck switch on the playfield. And if you feel the problem is beyond what you can do, you've gone through all those checks but you're still not comfortable and the game's still not working and the fuse you put in to replace the blown fuse blows, you probably need to call a tech. Okay? Similar problems like a stuck bulb, burned out bulb, or out of place rubber that came off the post, generally those can be handled by you. Those are simple problems to take care of. And especially, doesn't happen often, but if you hear a strain of noise coming out of that game, turn off the machine. Any noise that doesn't sound right, especially if it looks like mechanical games, turn off the machine. Okay? Because very simply, that could mean a serious problem will develop shortly if you don't. Again, call it a fried solenoid coil and a blown fuse. Same thing if you see smoke coming out of the guy, okay? You see smoke, turn the machine off. And please folks, do remember, it's not a good idea to toast marshmallows in the smoke. Am I right? That joke didn't work. Okay. I was going to find my hot dogs in the smoke, but that's another story. Okay, and when you're searching that bottom cabinet for anything on the board, I do want to hear what might you find? Well, these are some things I have found over the years. Some mineral, some nuts and mineral. Bottom right corner, the live cat. Literally speaking, I walk into a mansion in Long Island. This guy just wanted me to evaluate his two machines, his Williams QT and a Gottlieb early digital salt state. Just wanted me to assess them and find out how much they're worth. No problem. I get to the Williams QT, and the head is removed from the cabinet. The head's off to the side. The cabinet is standing on its four legs. I open up the door to look inside the cabinet, and this Garfield cat jumps out of the air.
    35:24
    Open up the cabinet, cat hairs all over the relays. That was interesting. And, as I said before, if you've done everything you can to try and fix the game safely, don't be ashamed to call a tech. And if you want to, it's also a good idea to find out what areas of expertise they have, what they charge, and who's to work guaranteed. I guarantee you I worked for at least 30 days.
    35:52
    And perhaps I didn't have to go this far, but the honest, simple technician is not ashamed to admit his limitations. I'll tell you right now, guys, EM, send me an EM any day. But solid state, great that it depends on what machine and what kind of problem it has as to whether I will fix it myself or refer the customer to a more qualified person. I'm not ashamed to do that. In fact, I have one other friendly tech on the island who is more than happy to fix solid state games, but he won't touch an EM. So we trade service calls. There's not a lot of us. I'm talking maybe only five or six guys in the entire New York City, Long Island region that fix pinwalls, period. So there's a very small bunch of us out there. Reputation is everything. Honorable techs will trade calls, trade service calls with other honorable techs. Now, I wonder if my brother likes tech and control. Anyway, for the person that does have some experience, and I'm sure it includes a bunch of you right here, depending on what kind of problem it is, what machine it is, and depending on your level of experience and knowledge, it determines whether you're going to fix it on your own or call the tech. Folks, if you're in doubt, don't be ashamed to call tech. You don't want to get facked. And by the way, that brings me to one point. Remember that swingers club in Manhattan, that Space Invaders? Zap. I get zapped with 225 volts when I'm readjusting the high voltage on the display board. Not a good feeling. You don't want to do that. Of course, I was maybe only 20 years old. I was still learning. Oh, that was a hard lesson.
    37:34
    For the notes who wants to learn more, great news for you folks. If you want to just take a few minutes out of your life, a number of excellent sources to learn about pinball machines, this is just a small segment. Of course, you want to talk with people in the business. The Internet. Again, the Internet is just an amazing thing that has changed our world in so many ways. Good websites, Pain Wiki, YouTube videos, plenty of those out there. Even good old-fashioned books. I've got to read this Hank Jelliger book. I never heard of it until last week when Dave told me about it. I can say briefly it's like they treat electromechanical system as if it were solid state. Here's the Gottlieb system. Here's the Valley system. Here's the Williams system. So if you're fixing electromechanical for one of those three manufacturers, it goes into much more depth than Russ Jensen's earlier book on electromechanical troubleshooting. Excellent. I hope there's some time. I'll be looking into it myself. Great. And of course, faculty instruction manuals, schematics, and of course, watching brilliant guys like me do repairs, definitely.
    38:39
    All right, fixing your own electromechanical game. As that instructor Cal Klipper told me years ago, with an electromechanical pinball machine,
    38:51
    if you are able to clean and adjust switch contacts, you will solve 90% of your problems with an electromechanical pinball.
    39:02
    Whether it's 90% or some other percentage, it doesn't matter. Bottom line is if you can do that, you will be able to self-service a large portion of your problems if you have that kind of game. Games from the 60s to 70s and up until 1980, that's when the candles were made. From 77 to 80, a changeover took place to solid state. But even with solid state games, you still have switches under the play field. So if you at least can properly gap those switches and make sure the contacts are clean, that also applies to them as well. And of course, you can have many other issues. A short circuit solder splice can be a hell of a crap to find. If they came across switch contacts on the bottom board.
    39:42
    Stepping units and so on, things like that. Broken wires, loose screws, missing screws. Things out of alignment. Even ghosts and goblins.
    39:52
    Although ghosts and goblins probably apply more to these two guys. Gobby 100Fs and Allied Leisure Spooksville. I still enjoyed playing Spook School when I found one.
    40:04
    And fixing your solid state game. Well, solid state games, technically speaking, are a very different animal than electromechanicals.
    40:16
    But a solid state game, especially for a lot of old-time operators, they could not handle the changeover. Because they were so used to fixing their electromechanical games on their own. Anyhow, fixed-hands saw stake game, generally speaking, does require a greater amount of technical knowledge and training versus an EM. Tracing wires and schematics using the DMM, that's my digital multimeter right there, okay, along with the digital display, one of the early digital displays, folks. That display has long since been replaced by a progressive technology. Cold solder joints can be hell to find, let me tell you right now. your connectors and ribbon cables, etc., etc., testing various solid-state components,
    41:00
    using self-test functions, and basically, with today's pinball machines, you've got to have an instruction manual. The darn instruction manual for today's games is probably at least that thick. But hey, that's the way it is. Changing technology all the time, it's happening.
    41:14
    So to wrap things up, some of my adventures over the years, fixing games or going on service calls, broken glasses. Oh, it's so fun when I took that tempered glass out of the game. I was on a concrete floor in a basement and I carefully laid it down by a wall in the basement and I'm looking down at a pile of million pieces of glass, cardboards, and two left in my hands. But the good news was the glass was out of the play field. God forbid you get a broken glass in the play field with a million pieces you have to vacuum out of there. Oh, I've done that three or four times over the years. Worst case was a, anybody know how many electromechanical Monoharis were made?
    42:02
    170. That is correct, 170. I was lucky enough to pick one up from somebody selling one in my local area maybe 15 years ago. Complete. Well, I put it in self-storage for my other 42 games. Then for some reason I was moving games around. The head, the head fell over. Shedded back glass. Do you have any idea how impossible it is to find a replacement back glass for an EM Monohari? Well, sold the game as is. Just an understand story. And of course, as you can see, I've had all kinds of issues with other things, moving games and things like that. Foreign games, they're difficult to work on because the relays and other circuitry is very different. And perhaps the ultimate insult, customers aren't happy when they get the final bill.
    42:51
    However, most of the time, after all is said and done, no greater satisfaction than having a machine where the customer says, bang, let's start a new machine. I can't believe how great it plays. Oh, all the fantastic action. Hey, the light lights up now. And so on and so on.
    43:08
    So, folks, in conclusion, if James Bond 007 believes the world is not enough, What makes you think just one pinball is enough? Nah, you've got to get a handful if you want the ultimate variety pack.
    43:25
    This is Tom Sitter's photo, let's believe, in the 1940s. It's a bingo machine. Very, very interesting. But wouldn't you like to have a collection of something like this down here?
    43:38
    What about walking into paradise? Finally, six of my favorite little mechanical games. Atlantis, Captain Fantastic, Tom Spore, Target Alpha, Superstar, and Suspense. Good action, good features. Atlantis, still considered collectible.
    43:57
    Six of my favorite solid state games. Adam's Family, which we have right here at the show. Black Knight, the 1980 Black Knight, the first Black Knight that came out. I was lucky enough to be in the AMOA show in Chicago in 1981. not only to play a brand new Black Knight, but to shake the hand of Harry Williams himself just before he passed on. I was only 19, 20 at the time, but trust me, those two things stand out in my head. I was so fortunate to be able to get to have that experience with him. Williams Diner for the sound package. We talked about playing dynamite tunes. Funhouse. I have conversations with Rudy all the time. Shut up. My name's not Taco, Rudy. And so on. That's a great game, too. Space Shuttle. Another great game. Oh, Terminator 2. Judge me, Dave.
    44:52
    I have conversations with Arnold, too. Fabulous game. Fast action. Great features. A shotgun feature. Let me tell you, if you would not play Terminator 2, one of the top ten pinballs ever made. Period.
    45:07
    With that said, questions and answers. That's it. Thank you. For your questions, Monica here is recording this session. And like all our sessions here I guess I supposed to tell you that Massachusetts General Law is Chapter 20 And you required to be informed that this session is being recorded So anything you say could be captured here So if you have any questions, come on up and everything's good. And we always talk about things found inside a pinball machine. That's a painless topic. Not just dried out rubbers, but any sort of indication for her residents in the machine.
    45:51
    Great, next presenter, we've got a question. Yes, so on EM games, there's like a bunch of people that are real experts and they'll clean everything. But like for the novice first buying an EM, they should try it, just troubleshoot one little area at a time and not like open up an EM game and start cleaning all the common tags.
    46:15
    Well, no. If they have a particular problem on their game, they can simply go to that area where the problem is. If a number's four-wheel is sticking, I would go to that area.
    46:28
    You would check your playfield switches. I mean, if you're getting a buzzing sound from somewhere, most likely you've got a stuck playfield switch. But no, I would not start cleaning switch contacts and then regapping them unless you have some experience in how to do it correctly. I mean, there are switch contacts that are behind rubbers. You need a certain air gap. Depending on the length of the rubber and so on, there are other factors that can determine what's the proper air gap. For example, slingshot switches with the thick contact points, they should be gapped for a certain amount. On the other hand, you may have just a simple stretch rubber, only a couple inches long. That stand-up switch contact probably should be adjusted a little closer. So I say just go up to the problem area. That's it. Don't go through everything at the beginning. Yeah, just another tip. For new people getting into EMs, like what we've run into a lot is the coin mechs are either jammed up or something goes weird on the switches and that screws up the games. So the first thing is remove the coin mechs and have a look, see if they're jamming up the switches. Well, yeah. Canadian quarters we're talking about. That's what's jamming them up. Yeah, well, obviously you have a coin jam. Obviously, you want to take out the coin back first. Okay, and maybe, obviously, you stuck coins in there.
    47:51
    And, of course, check the coin. The coin switches, the blade coin switches are delicate. Okay? Especially if you've got a 1960s game that's taking dimes. When you talk about extreme sensitivity, you've got to be very careful and adjust the coin switch properly. Okay? you possibly either bend it beyond repair or break it or whatever. So you want to just go through all the areas of the front door, switches as well as the coin mech, and make sure everything's in alignment.
    48:23
    And pretty much, you know, that's what you need to do. Just one final thing. Way back, we used to find, like, a bunch of, like, mechanicals. Either the operators or the techs were heavy on grease on reels. And over the years, they'd, like, dry right out and be, like... That gets to stuck stepping units and everything like that. Unfortunately, when something was sticking on an electrical mechanical game from the 60s and or 70s, a lot of unthinking, a lot of operators that were not thinking long term, they had to do a quick fix. I mean, consider this. You have a game on location. You're losing money every second that game is not working on location. Location owner is pitching and how long is he losing money too? you need some kind of quick fix. And a lot of times they would use gear oil or motor oil or some kind of oil grease to get a sticking unit to work. And for the time being, it probably did work for a while. But if you're familiar with oils of all kinds, over time, guess what happens? They come up. Thus, you have, unfortunately, a lot of cases over the years where I got a completely disassembled stepping unit or some other unit to clean all the surfaces away of the gear oil, get all that gear oil cleaned up, and then reassemble, then usually the unit will work okay. It's a bit of a time-consuming process, but I've had to do it many times. There's no order fixed. So unfortunately, that's reality, folks. You know, in some of the states, we occasionally see the homeowner that's used WB40 on everything.
    50:01
    Yep, yep. And I don't claim to be a total expert on all chemicals and things like that, but I've heard WD-40 is not a true solvent, quote-unquote. Don't use it.
    50:12
    Don't use highly flammable liquids on cleaning your switch contacts and then fire the game up. One spark, smoke.
    50:25
    But, yeah, those are good points, and I've had to prepare many a machine of those problems over the years.
    50:32
    Okay? OK. Other questions or things you found in the bottom of your pit ball machine? Yeah, I'd like to hear something interesting here. Yeah. One time I had a really weird problem with a Bally Electro-Mechanical. And finally, I just looked across all the relay banks, and somehow there was a leg bolt across all the leaf switches of the relays. All kinds of short circuits that never happened. any other gapping issue. It was just totally weird.
    51:09
    So if you were to put together a pinball kind of toolbox when you got a call, what kind of tools would be in that toolbox? Oh, boy. Oh, what a question. Well, try to recall from memory my pinball, my current pinball toolbox, which I've had for quite a few years. Well, switchblade adjusting tools, switchblade adjusting contacts, a point file, A little dentist's mirror are some of my primary tools I use to be able to see around switches and get them adjusted. What else? Well, a number of screwdrivers, of course. Pliers, wire cutters, solder gun and solder.
    51:46
    File, big file for other things. I'd put it at work for the new LED type lights. You can get LED lights that are very skinny or wide. You can have all kinds of different form factors. Yes, and that's true. in your pinball parts. Yeah, and that's in your, not tools, but pinball parts. I can't carry all kinds of pinball parts, but I try and keep a reasonable number of EM parts with me. Those types of bulbs, as well as bag of pinball rubbers,
    52:17
    back to the toolbox, hammer, vice grips to remove leg levers that are rusted beyond belief, nut drivers, especially those to, again, put leg bolts and head bolts on games, Oh boy, a bulb removal tool, which one gentleman was selling one that was better grade, plastic tubing attached to a wood dowel. And of course, this other stuff, things like that, other supplies, wire ties, and so on and so forth. I mean, I'd have to, I'd have a laundry list, you know, it seems like a mile long just to provide you that. DMM, digital multimeter, of course, for testing.
    53:03
    Miles of wire, various colors, and so on and so forth. Blood jack connectors. Again, there's a whole bunch of stuff that, to verbally skew it out, probably would take me at least a half an hour. That's a good sampling of what I carry, and no doubt there are other thermal tanks out there that make my toolbox look average versus what they have in theirs. But I do the best I can to handle most any service calls. And, of course, you cannot carry every single part for every single game. Insane. But if you know where to get the parts,
    53:40
    whether you're people on websites or your contacts, or you see an ad and you try and stock up on basic parts, but the point is you do the best you can. And I've been pretty fortunate to avoid a second visit to a game that I did not have a part for in the first one. That's very much how I handled that. Thank you. Other people? One thing, there's some operators in New England who spend lavishly on buying new machines, which, of course, the factories appreciate. And they have a staff of dozens of people, and not one person working for that whole firm has 11. So then the guy who's the interface to the distributors says, well, we're going to cut back on our pinballs. Pinballs don't make any money for us. Yeah, right. Giving the player a good playing experience. So even though it's not actually under the topic of repair, under the heading of play field configuration and enjoyment of the game, setting it up properly, a nice two foot level is a good one to have, plus a small one. can set right on the wood of the play field. Have a couple levels. Plus an inclinometer if you like to be careful about setting the slope of the play field. No matter what you bring, the one tool you need will not be in your box. Yeah. Or the part. Yeah, that would certainly happen. It's especially tough when a pretty much a one of a kind custom part made for one specific game breaks or wears out. One thing I did not mention is that having to, that's the key word, modify. Modify certain parts or perhaps use another manufacturer's parts to fix a different manufacturer's game. Sometimes you can get by doing that. Sometimes you can't. That can be a great challenge or more than likely, in the case of say that Chime Minute, Williams Chime Minute right there. Generally speaking, I've had to use different or other than factory parts to get it repaired. And in one case with a ballet chime unit, I actually found something in Home Depot that can actually replace the worn out grommets on top because of that design. And those devices, I forget if they were called, worked out perfectly. Sometimes you just get lucky in finding the part that you need or something that will get the job done. Or you can do a temporary repair on the play field so the ball doesn't get stuck in a certain area because you don't have that particular item. And as I say, it's a never ending learning experience, folks. Since 1975, I've been very, very fortunate to, before that actually, been involved with the world with steel ball. It's been a big adventure, and it will continue to be a big adventure. I can tell you right now that the silver ball is in my blood. Pinball is in my blood. On a personal note, it would be nice if I had a nice lady in my life that also shared my fondness for the silver ball, but that's another story for another day.
    56:58
    In any case, though, I very much enjoy coming to these shows. It literally is a break from my full-time job. Briefly, since we have a couple of minutes left. I've done many other things in my life. Among the more amazing things I've done with my life besides fixing pinball machines. Well, I've been involved with multiple marketing, didn't work out, involved with online things, didn't work out. I've been a stock broker on Wall Street for a couple of years, 1990 to 91. I decided that career was not for me, definitely not for me. And the most unbelievable thing, and I have the proof right here in my pocket, this is an employee pass to the New York City subway system. 17 years I've been with the Transit Authority in New York City. For the first seven years, I drove New York City subway trains down the rails.
    57:53
    That was an experience. You might say I was really going places there. But got demoted and now I work at the Stations Department for the last 10 years. Look forward to retiring in three years. It is not fun working for the military. I'll tell you right now.
    58:10
    And let's see. Well, those are kind of two highlights. As I said before, I've been very happy to be an actor on stage for six years, during the 1980s. Maybe in a few years I'll get involved in another theater show, I don't know. Good luck to inherit my father's bass baritone singing voice, which I may use again on stage, who knows. After we buy a new PA system. Exactly. But I have done some very impressive things over the years, but the silver ball is still primary in my life, it really is.
    58:50
    I had 42 pinball machines up until 2007. For personal reasons I won't get into, I had to sell the entire collection. I think all but one was electromechanical. Some of them are in Asbury Park, New Jersey. You can play some 60s godly games of mine I used to own at Asbury Park's Silver Ball Amusements Arcade, which thankfully, amazingly, I was told, was not devastated by Sandy.
    59:15
    And, of course, I've owned and sold numerous games over the years, done a lot of things, but especially interacting with a lot of good old faces at the pinball shows, whether it be here, Pennsylvania shows, Pinball Expo in Chicago in the fall, Pretty much I get these football shows because they are my break from my full-time job, and I badly need those breaks, I'll tell you right now. And as I say, this is my first inaugural seminar here at Fantastic. Not perfect. I had some last-minute glitches, which I push aside and just push on. In any case, hopefully you enjoyed it. Hopefully I've informed you a little bit. You're always welcome to call me. I'm here to talk to you at the Shelf Wicker. and I'm here until Saturday night and yes I do travel to pinball service calls again it's a little more pricey for me to service somebody outside the Long Island area but depending on the game I kind of feel most comfortable in front of an EM bringing it back to life and saying hey factory fresh with that said showtime is over thank you