Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. We're on episode 26. My co-host with me today is... Martin Robbins, formerly from the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. What are you doing here? Oh, well, you know, I was on my self-imposed hiatus and you sort of messaged me and said, hey, just heard the news. Do you want to come on the show? And I thought, yeah, why not? It's been a while. Give it a go. Get off the beach with your gin and decide to come join us for a moment. It's pretty much what's happened. So I want to explain to everyone out there, Scott has not left the show. The dude is a superhero. He's donating his time right now. He's down in Guatemala. He's doing his anesthesiologist stuff down there with helping with cleft palates with children. And so he's gone for eight days, and I figured Martin might need something to do, and so we decided to record this thing. Yeah, that's true. I do need something to do. It's been a month since I've been off, so yeah, happy to come on board. How is retirement treating you versus that and everything? Look, so let's talk about all of them. The reason why Head to Head finished and why I took a break as well. So I just got to the end of 2019 and I was pretty burnt out from a tough year. Pretty much work was pretty tough. So I decided that I wanted to take, let's call it a career break, but almost a bit of a life break where I just wanted to have a few months just to myself, just to recharge the batteries fully and then see where life's going to take me. And part of that was determining whether I was going to continue with the Head to Head Pinball Podcast because it was still getting great numbers. People were still downloading it and, you know, still lots of interaction with our fans, which was great. But I just felt that there was a lot of good podcasts out there. We were one of many. I just felt maybe it's time to just rest it and let others rise to the surface. That was very generous of you. And then like half the community quit too. Like if Martin's given up, the rest of us are giving up. Right. So let's talk about that because that's really interesting because we did put that announcement out there that the podcast is finishing. and then two others, then three, and I think all up five, maybe five podcasts have all come to an end. And then there's these rumors of this new mega conglomerate that's forming and people were saying, oh, you know, all of them quit to do this. And I just wanted to say on the record, I knew nothing of this. In fact, when I put out that notification that Head to Head was coming to a close, I just had all these people message me saying, oh, well, now that you're not doing that, do you want to join this show or do you want to join this show or there's a new show? And Joe had the same thing as well. So I know he's going to a podcast as well. I'm pretty sure it's public knowledge that he's now going to the Pinball Players podcast, which is an awesome show. So that's great that he's found a home. and I think I may have found a home. Really? Well, and I know that Jeff Parsons did actually post it this morning. He said a Pinball Players Podcast 2.0. So it is official that Joe will be over there. Yeah, and the history to that was that I think about a day after I asked Joe to be the co-host of Head to Head, he was asked to join the Pinball Players Podcast and he was like, oh, sorry, I'm now going to head-to-head. So it was really, it was a good, it was obvious for me, but a good decision for him to go to Pinball Players Podcast because I know that him and Jeff are good mates. So I reckon that'll just go from strength to strength. Oh, yeah. And well, and Jeff is, he talks about the competitive scene. Joe's into the competitive scene. I think it's a match made into heaven. I think he'll sound really good. Yeah, absolutely. Well, the funny part though is, is like, like you said, there was like some super conglomerate um okay you've dropped so many we gotta sift through all this really quick i'll tell you what i can tell you okay so the funny part is is the the day that that twip and special one lit both uh hung up the reins so to speak um we were joking that you guys were straight uh creating a super band like you know when guns and roses lost axl rose and so they got the main singer stone temple pilots and made velvet revolver. And so we're like, there's like a super band coming out. And that's, that's just the joke I started coming up with. And people started, I don't know, between that and then dead flip with his network thing. And I mean, this is really snowballed into a thing. And so I was like, I mean, I've known for months now when I came on to head to head a little while ago, uh, you know, we kind of discussed this. He said, you know, just depending where the, the fork lands in the road depends where everything gets picked up here in a little bit. And so I knew that you were kind of deciding whether or not to keep going, but I didn't say anything because, you know, out of respect to you. Thank you. I just – it was funny to me because I started getting messages before you announced it. I guess it started floating around in-disc, and they're asking me what's going on. I said, I don't know. You're going to have to ask Martin. Well, it's good to see that we can generate that much hype, I guess, for not saying anything. But look, obviously, in the four weeks leading up to the announcement, I was getting a lot of messages from people saying, are you coming back? Are you coming back? And it was really hard to give non-answers. But that's what I really had to do was to say, well, sure, maybe. Yeah, I guess so. Let's see what happens after I've had the four-week break. Really was what it was. So I got to the end of the four weeks and decided that what I really didn't want was responsibility, effectively. And that was part of quitting my job and just having some downtime without responsibility. And that was the podcast. And with the podcast, I was producer as well as host. So it was a lot of work to do both. And what's been presented to me as a possible way forward with something else is just be the host. Somebody else does all the hard work in the background. And that's really appealing. nice well now now you got to tell us if if you can who has made you an offer that you couldn't refuse obviously i can't tell you but i can tell you that no i no i can't i obviously can't um and that's been really difficult because obviously everybody has been reaching out to me about the network because people have assumed that head to head quit the show at the same time especially when lit and twip because of the same reason and it's just not true we it's just a happy coincidence but what I will say is and maybe by the time this podcast airs people will know more so I've just come on at the last minute so I don't want to be the spokesperson for something that's been organized for a very long time that's totally understandable but now you've got everyone's whistle wet and they're going to be like it's good it's good to know that you're not leaving though Well, that's fine. Very flattering for you to think so. But remember, you and I have had these conversations before and after when we've recorded because we tend to actually spend probably just as much time talking before we record as the amount of time we record. Kind of like you in that we just started head to head just as a bit of fun because there was a gap in the market in Australia. Pinheads had just finished. So we were just doing a podcast for Australians and then it just started snowballing and snowballing. But in my head, I still think of me as being that person that just made a small little dinky podcast for the Australians. So, you know, people reaching out to me saying, I hope you're doing something. I hope you do something. It's really flattering and humbling because I just don't see myself as being that important, I guess. I know exactly what you mean. I've had that exact same situation, not necessarily to what I feel is your level, but I have had people come up to me. People in our group here in the Salt Lake area have moved away, and one of the gentlemen that moved away, he had said, Scott and Josh, it's crazy because now I live in North Carolina, and these people know you. I've told them I used to play with you guys in League, and I've become like a little mini celebrity amongst these people. North Carolina. And I'm like, why? We just record and shoot the breeze. It's not like we do anything magical. You know what I'm saying? No, I know. But I kind of do get the flip because I remember the very first time I met Nate Shivers from Coast to Coast. And this was at Indisc. And I was like this really shy, sort of, you know, really nervous person going up to him going, Hi, Nate. My name is Martin. And he was just like, Hey, cool. Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. and that was kind of how I felt about Nate Shivers. He was just this entity, you know, this really famous people, this really famous person in our bubble and every time I listen to him, I have a connection to this person and now I'm meeting them. So I understand logically how it feels the other way but it still feels strange. It does. Well, and it's funny because like we're in the same state as Jeff Rivera And Jeff has done the pinball podcast for, what, nine years now? A hundred years. Yeah, he's done it forever. And whether he's doing it now or not, that is the question mark. But I actually didn't know it was him doing the podcast, and I was going to league nights with him. Right, okay. And I'm listening because you guys and him are the first guys that got me introduced as I'm trying to dig deeper into pinball. And it didn't dawn on me one day. I can't remember what it was, but finally it got posted on Facebook or something like, yeah, Jeff's going to be there from the Pinball Podcast. And I'm like, wait a minute, what? Jeff Rivera? Like, wait a minute. And then it clicked, like one and one make two. And our tournament director's like, yeah, he's our own little Batman is what we call him here because he doesn't want anyone to know who he is. He's such a super nice guy. I was really pleased that I got to meet him, I think, the time that I met you for the first time. Yep. so it's weird how that works right right yeah absolutely so anyway the head-to-head is dead is the the full stop i'll put on that uh i'm just really pleased first of all that joe has found a new home that was my big concern and poor thing he was he was a bit blindsided by He wasn't really sure what was going on, and he really found out the day before the announcement was made and obviously really disappointed. And he's been phenomenal for the show. He came on at a time when I was questioning whether it was going to go ahead because I was doing all these different weekly guests, and that was really hard work. And then he came on board and took it in a new direction. I really liked the Joe Tips the Top 100, and it was really good. So I'm really pleased that he's found a home. Well, good. Well, and we're pleased as well. We like listening to Joe. I don't know. If you guys can see behind the scenes, we talk a ton. Martin talks to us if he's awake. Right, yeah. I wake up and there's like 100 messages. I'm like, oh, how am I going to catch up on this? But it seems like there's a daily conversation that can start between the office. And it just, yeah. Absolutely. so it's been a month has anything happened like whilst I've been gone because one of the weirdest things really about taking this break is you know each week for the Head to Head podcast I've got to be in tune with all the news and all the happening that's going on because we always did our own research I think we said this before because you know this week in Pinball that was pretty much the website was updated straight after we recorded So we would have to go and research our own topics. So I've really been out of the loop with pinball goings, and that's a really strange feeling. Well, you know, Jeff Patterson took a break, so there wasn't like a ton of information coming in from Twip. And it just seemed like between the Twippies on January 1st opening and Stranger Things and whatever we're going to dub that now. and just the weird amount of drama in between everything. I don't know if you'd say in the pinball realm, honestly, nothing's happened besides CES and the reveal of Stranger Things Premium. Right. On an official, if you could see me, quotes official level. I can see your quotes. So it's been a weird month. It feels like a ton's happened, but nothing's happened. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, well, I guess that because over that time a lot of media, let's call them media outlets, did take a break. We haven't had that same stream of information coming our way. Yeah. It's been empty. So the other question I have too is if everyone's been bothering you about the – well, not bothering. What's the word I'm looking for? If everyone's been asking you about the network stuff, do you know anything of what's happening with Special One Lit or This Week in Pinball? Yes. and you're going to leave it at that correct okay well look again let's talk about me and the podcast if throughout the the two and a half years that we we did a podcast if someone gave me information and said do not tell anyone keep this to yourself 100 of the time i would keep it to myself and i'm in that situation at the moment it's it's frustrating but all we revealed i'm telling you within the next couple of days, I'm sure. Well, that's what's crazy to me. We've known each other for a while now, and I would message you, and you say, I can't tell you. I'm like, oh, okay, whatever. I don't know how you handle all this information. It's hard. You get it from everywhere. I'm not going to lie. We don't get very much information at all. I don't know if it's because I got a big mouth. I don't know. I don't know what it is. But it seems like every time I asked you something, it's like you'd write it down on a piece of paper what was going to happen. So I would believe you later on. So after it happened, you're like, see, post-dated everything. Yeah. But again, if someone has specifically said to me, do not say anything, my lips are sealed. And that's not just in podcasting. That's my life as well. I think confidentiality is really important. I totally agree. It makes it very frustrating, especially some of the information that we get told. Case in point, if I can tell you, was Rick and Morty. Knew a lot about Rick and Morty. Couldn't say a thing. Like, how long did you know about Rick and Morty? I can't say that. That's going to narrow it down. Oh, well, fine. But let's just say before it was shown. Okay. That sounds good. So that's tough. It puts me – and I'm not going to miss that part of feeling frustrated about information that I can't share. Well, I'm glad I don't feel that frustrated because I don't have any information to share. Fair enough. But also on that, we also get told a lot of information that's not true. Yes. So it's sometimes best not to say anything. It just depends on the source. sometimes you've got a reputable source that always gets it right. And then there's just wild speculation that comes from it. So, you know, for example, we were told, someone sent us a note saying that, I think it was, they were saying maybe Jersey Jack was going to be doing a matrix machine. And I think we may have spoken about it at the time. And we were, I don't know, I was losing my stuff over it because it's such a dream thing. But I don't know. Is it going to happen? Is it not? Who knows? well that's the crazy part too you've got to kind of sift through it because i have had some really weird let's put accusations come our way of companies that are going to be doing stuff and i'm like no like until i hear someone else more credible convinced to say that so i i get where you're coming from on that point but yeah yeah anyway so trust is important yes i totally agree And so I say that we've gotten a little information over time, but nothing – I don't know. We don't really share it unless we're told we're allowed to. Yeah, fair enough. Anyhoo, other than that, so how is the beach? How is Jin? How's the family? Well, everything is wonderful. The biggest new addition in my life is my new kitten that I got called Winston, who's a British Shorthair, who's absolutely adorable. and is currently tearing up the house. So he's keeping me busy. The gin is fresh and delicious at the moment. But look, one thing I will say is obviously over the last four, five weeks, you would have heard all about Australia, right? Oh, yes. We have had really hot Carl Weathers and we've had the double threat. We've had really hot Carl Weathers and really high wind. And that wind, just a spark happens, starts a flame, and that flame is just spread. And you would know that there's just been so much devastation of Australia. And I lucky in that I in a effectively I would say a 20 walk from the city of Melbourne So I close to the central area So we are never going to be in any danger But there have been some days where the smell from the smoke, which has been, I don't know, miles to kilometers, but let's just say 200 to 300 miles away, we can smell the smoke from that here. And apparently smoke has been smelt in South America that's come over the ocean from Australia. That's how bad it's been. It's crazy. It really is crazy. The other part, too, is I never realized how big Australia was until someone sent us a diagram of Australia over the top of America. And it's pretty much the same size. That's right. Yeah. And so I couldn't imagine – what's the percentage you'd say that Australia is on fire? Oh, I would say probably 15% to 20%. So to put that in perspective, that's like – that'd be, oh, Colorado over to Missouri, up to Nebraska, down to Texas. That'd be about 20%, not the bottom of Texas. Let's go to the top. And that's a pretty good chunk. Yeah. 15%, 20%. That's crazy. Yeah, apparently. I don't know whether we want this as a claim to fame, but apparently it is one of the biggest bushfires in history ever. They reckon over a billion animals have died. You know what I mean? Like, that's crazy stuff, right? But I have seen the outpouring of people. I mean, Lauren from the Backbox Pinball Podcast, she helped with the charity getting that pushed out for you guys there in Australia. It's amazing. I saw people dropping – they, like, bought a helicopter to drop carrots and celery and stuff so the animals had food. Yep, yep. Because there's just nothing. There's nothing in between where the animals were living. And so – Yep. So that's what it's been. So when you talk about how it's like it's hot day today and it's windy, so you just never know what's going to happen. Which is the total opposite of us. Yes. I'm hitting single digits here in Utah, so. Yeah. So, yeah. Anyway. So that's how life's been. It's been pretty relaxing for me. But I'm sort of missing my pinball fix. I'm still streaming, though, so I still get to play. I'm just not in the loop with podcasts. Well, that's what's funny, too, is I was nervous to bother you because you are on vacation. And so I'm like, I'm without Scott this week. And I'll ask Martin because they've now officially announced. And maybe he'll say yes. And it wasn't even a hesitation. He's like, yes, I'll be on. yeah that's pretty much it yeah so well let's let's hit some of the news okay um let's see okay did you watch the stranger things premium reveal with dead flip last week i watched all of it yes oh what okay i want your initial because you guys pretty much quit before anything was really short on Stranger Things, right? Correct. I think so. Oh, no, you know what? Half the podcast, the last podcast, half of it was recorded before and half of it was recorded after. Gotcha. Okay. So I want your first impressions. What are you thinking of Stranger Things? Okay. Well, can I answer that in two parts if you will humor me? Because there's my impressions and there's also impressions of the community before and after the stream. And the impressions I got before, people were pretty cool on it in that they were saying, I don't get it. I'm not sure about the layout. You can't hit the demogorgon. It just, I don't know. And so in my mind, and maybe that's set my expectations pretty low, I went into the deadflip reveal thinking, this is going to be a bit ho-hum and I watched it for as long as it went and the more I watched it the more I now just want to freaking play this thing it looks great I really enjoy how they've integrated the projector and he was very quick and often mentioned that they were in a very well-lit room and you could really see the projector and it's integrated really well yeah oh I totally agree I think it was cool to see the jackpot letters on the ramps. It was a little hard to see, but, I mean, granted, they were in a well-lit room. But I felt like you could see that screen right there in the middle of the play field as clear as day with no problem. But I cut you off. Keep going. No, no, no, no. It's over to you to get your initial thoughts. You know, with the reveal of the premium, I think, like you said, I think the community, there's a part of the community that says, this looks good. It looks fun. I just want to get my hands on it. And then there's another side of the community that just wants to burn it to the ground. Like, what is going on? It is one of those games that has no middle ground because it is, it's a really, I think it is, it's a really beloved theme. And you either do it justice or you don't. Or you don't get the theme and therefore it sucks. Well, do you think, I don't know if it's just theme. I wonder if it's, I mean, Brian Eddy's games are on the top. 20 of the pin side, which really doesn't mean much. But this is a man that's been highly coveted for a while. I mean, Brian, 80, his name was worth money. You know what I'm saying? And so I wonder if people are let down because they were expecting something more. I just don't know. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. I know exactly what you're saying. I think that was the initial disappointment. Everyone just looked at it. And I did the same. Again, it was one of those ones where I managed to perhaps see some images before it was revealed. And my first take on it when I looked at it was, oh, it looks just like Attack from Mars. And, geez, those colors are a bit bright. Because I just thought that the play field art was almost fluorescent. And I just didn't think it worked. But that's just in a static image. Now that I've seen it on the stream, I think it all integrates really well. I'm really pleasantly surprised, I've got to tell you. I am too. And I think the other problem too is it followed – I don't know why people keep skipping Elvira, but they get in their mind that it followed Jurassic Park. And with Jurassic Park being Jurassic Park, I think people are expecting more as a follow-up. And so I think – Yeah. I just don't know. It does look fun. Well, that's what you get. I guess you get play-filled, let's call it layout innovation from Keith Elwin. I say layout innovation in that you're not necessarily getting too many things in it that are completely innovative, unless you count the T-Rex head, which looks freaking amazing. As you know, I've got a limited edition of it. Yes. But the layout itself is very innovative. It does things that others haven't and does it so incredibly well. So then when you go back to, well, you look at straight after that, you've got Elvira, and then you've got Stranger Things. Both of those machines are very, I would say, by numbers, fan layout. Yep. Now, I played Elvira, and it's fun. It is so much fun. And sometimes it's nice to have a machine where it's actually easier to hit the shots than being constantly punished for missing shots. So it is actually every once in a while nice to have a simple layout. And I think that's Elvira. From what I've heard with Stranger Things is that it looks simpler than it is. The shots are a bit tighter than they are in Elvira. So it still is a bit more challenging. And then, of course, as I said before, the Demogorgon doesn't always go in, although we saw in the premium it seemed to go in more than I thought it would. That's my take on it. I think the other tests that I take living in Utah were not a hotbed for pinball. We have a lot of machines out here, but the new stuff just doesn't roll in as much as maybe the other states. And so we haven't seen Stranger Things Pro yet. And we're pretty good if we're going to get a Stern machine, we get it within a week or two after it's revealed. Or someone announces, hey, we've bought this and it's on its way. We're just not getting that. Quarters has told us they're going to get a premium, but we haven't heard a word since from the reveal to now. So they saw the promo video that got quote unquote leaked and was like, we're buying this. and then after everything kind of like crap hit the fan, we haven't heard a word. So who knows? And even then, premiums take forever. Yeah. Can we just make that point as well? Because I sort of didn't mention it, but we had said on the Head to Head podcast that Stranger Things will ship on the 25th, 3rd of December. And that was, I don't know, four days before that. And that's what happened. And when they revealed the video, people were getting those machines that day. Yeah. That's unheard of. Oh, I agree. And that's awesome. And just think about this. What did Stern have to go through to keep everyone silent? Because that means they had to contract distributors. The distributors got to contact buyers. The buyers then have to say, yes, we'll buy it, but we won't say a word to anyone. You know what I'm saying? The in-depth of what had to go through all this to get those under the Christmas trees is crazy amazing, in my opinion. Exactly. I think that they did very well. Admittedly, how long has Brian Eddy been with Stern? I say that because that's how long this machine has been in development. So I think that it was pretty good to go as far as the development cycle goes. Yep. I agree. And I guess probably the other thing to talk about is the rules, really, because it was part of the initial feedback that I was getting. People were saying that they didn't really love the rules. But what I saw on that stream looked great, made sense. There was a lot of variation. There was the short game, the long game, the wizard game, all that kind of stuff happening at once, fairly easy to understand. and people were getting it. We saw a lot of the rules on the stream. Yep. And I think people have come accustomed to when a Stern machine releases, they're not going to see much code. I think there's a decent amount of code here to wet your whistle compared to what's been released. Unless if it's a Keith game, because apparently Keith just ships it off the line with everything. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. So, yeah. So, I think we are currently at 0.81, I think of code. So yeah, there's still some way to go. I mean, I know 0.81 doesn't give you an indication of how much time there is until you get to 1.0 code, but it sort of gives you an indication that it's somewhat complete. And usually at a 0.81 standard means the major features aren't in there yet. That usually happens around the 0.9 mark. I agree. So, well, I'm glad to hear a little positivity from it. It seems like there's been a little bit of negativity from it. A little bit. Just a hair. Well, and what's crazy to me, and I'm not going to lie, we're culprits of it too, but it's like you said, if the Matrix was a dream theme for you, Ninja Turtles is a dream theme for me. So I'm kind of like, okay, Stranger Things is out of the way. Now let's focus on Ninja Turtles. Well, I can tell you now, only one of us at this stage has got the ability to be disappointed in the future. Because I can tell you Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is coming. Woo-hoo! So, I don't... I mean, if the benchmark for success is it needs to be better than the Data East game, then you're going to be happy. Oh, I'll be super happy. That's a terrible game. Oh, Left Ramp? Would you like Left Ramp? Mason Left Ramp? Yes! Paging Josh Sharpe to the left ramp. Josh Sharpe to the left ramp. For those who've never played the Data East Ninja Turtles, there's a reason I bought it for a thousand bucks. Like, a modern era pinball machine, and this is just my opinion, when people try to get like $2,500 out of that machine, I think you're nuts. Like, I know that there's a... Don't do it. No. Yeah. Go pump some quarters at the local pizza place, because I guarantee that's where it's at. Yeah, it's not great. No, it feels like an unfinished game. That's the best way I can describe it. Yeah, terrible. So that is the nice part for me. My dream theme, so long as it's better than the Data East, I'm good to go. Well, that's what I'm saying. As long as that's your benchmark for success. But a lot of people out there that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is their dream theme might not feel the same. And there's serious expectations, but I guess that's the risk that you do with these themes. I would argue you've got it much easier with band themes because there's not stories that you need to tell or feelings as part of those stories that you need to replicate as part of the pinball experience. you've just got to put songs in there really and draw the bands well that's all well and and the thing with ninja turtles i think that puts a lot of minds to rest that have been officially unofficially confirmed or whatever you want to call it you know we we keep hearing zombie eddie zombie eddie zombie yeti is on art which i mean no one's going to complain at zombie eddie art like anyhow and then john borg and john borg's good at making designs like i can't remember the last crappy john borg playfield design yeah they might be similar but they're all good like i have no complaints with them yeah i i would agree with you i think he knows how to make a satisfying layout gameplay experience but it hasn't really i think probably the last game i think that he's pushed the boundaries of his design, I really would actually be The Walking Dead. Yep. I agree. But, I mean, look at all the other games he's made too. Metallica, Guardians of the Galaxy. I mean, these are all games that when you hear them, you still think of great games. You don't think of, meh, I can live with or without. You know, I hear people talking about these games with high regard. And so I'm not too worried. I think everything will be great. And I don't know. People talk about like dream things need to be perfect. And I've learned one of two things with people right now. You can either treat pinball as what it is. It's a fun outlet to enjoy with your friends and family. Or two, you can treat it like fine dining. You know, you have to have the plates just right. You have to have the silverware just right. You have to have the right wine to the right food. if you're going to expect that with every pinball machine you're going to be disappointed yeah correct correct and there's just so much room for error when you've got such strict criteria yep let's let's move on to the state finals we just had that happen this past weekend um i did and i saw some of it as well i was gonna say what's really good about it is there were a lot of people streaming the the finals because they all happen at the same time pretty much or the same weekend um and it was just good to be able to i watched a lot of a lot of the action live and then catch up um so you know i don't know whether you you could link it but there's certainly if you go to twitch and search ses you'll find um a lot of streams there i'll have to see if we can link that that would be awesome um we both pulled up the list here there's some very noticeable names on this list. Correct. Raymond Davidson, which you watched this, and... I watched this. I'm sorry, I've just got to tell you this. This was crazy, because he was up against Kaylee, Kaylee George, and how it works is, it's the best of seven games, or first to win four games. And I think it had been, I think Raymond was up 3-1, and then Kaylee came back and it was 3-all. And then it came down to the last game being Deadpool, and Kaylee put up a very, very good score. And it was literally up to the last ball that Raymond had to beat him to be able to win. And it is exactly what he did. But it was nail-biting. Nail-biting to watch this. and also just in those seven games you got to just watch some phenomenal gameplay including one of the best exploits you'll find on Tales of the Arabian Nights where Kaylee managed to get this unlimited multiball jackpot harem with the princess capture thing that just pretty much broke the game. Nice. Well and if you've ever played competitive pinball, you always want to be the person that goes last. That is just the most defeating thing ever Or you think that unbeatable and then the person right behind you on ball three blows it away yeah well the thing of it is what really good about watching players of this caliber is you know it does not matter how much of a lead a person's got if the number one player in the world can do it surely the number two player in the world can also do it yes very much nothing ever felt safe and watching these comebacks just clawing back and i think i think he might have had a hundred million on deadpool that he needed to claw back from which isn't a huge amount considering you know a billion game on that is very achievable uh but still it was the very last ball it could have just drained instantly oh yeah and the pressures on i i wish i know we talk about this all the time uh across all forms of media but if if you could just get someone hooked on that by watching it i mean yeah oh i i think it could it would take like wildfire i just but i guess there's a certain understanding that that creates quite the wall of um what's the word i'm looking for oh a barrier to entering correct and so but i got you back thank you i appreciate that uh yeah so some other notables so keith elwin he managed to get through apparently he's okay i i hear that i hear he can hold his own yep but bow and carrots rocks a great cap is what i've heard that's what i hear too you know what's fun i love this it never gets old to me i'm sorry people play where's wallow with keith with us and so we get pictures of people like we got a picture when indisc happened and it was our friend matt with keith and they're both rocking their caps i'm like i just i love it because it's still a dream to me you know what i'm saying like i know keith ellen wearing our hat so i know keith ellen what wore our t-shirt when he won um but did you see that somebody posted a picture of me when i was streaming the other night with the loser kid cap on saying that i look like Yes, I did see that. And I was cracking up because Ryan had posted like, that's not Keith because he's not wearing the Loser Kid hat. And so then they posted you and someone's like, now this is Keith. What can I say? I've let myself go. Sorry, Keith. well and i've don't don't show sell yourself short i've played a couple of games with you and i'm like why hasn't this guy made it to to finals of you know you're really good at what you do on a pinball machine so oh i'm much better at it on a stream than i am in a tournament that i can tell you well maybe that's what it was it was a casual night when we were hanging out so yeah it would have been that for sure um some other names bo and karen's got through colin urban He's the one that pretty much came to Australia and stole all our Whoppers. Thanks, Colin. You jerk. And Eric Stone got through. Now, that was also another great one to watch. Well, and he just won INDISC, too. INDISC, too. So that's fantastic. I don't know if many people know this, but Eric is actually originally from Utah. And so we're very glad that he decided to take a job down in Florida. Right. But no, I didn't know this until we'd been doing League for a little while. And Dan Newman, our tournament director, who also took Utah for the finals, spoiler alert, he tells me, he's like, well, you know Eric, right? And I said, yeah, you know, I've heard the name. And he said, Eric used to be here and I didn't know he played pinball. The only reason I knew him is because we're on a bowling league together. And this was back before pinball was a thing in Utah. So he's like, shortly after he moved away, we started making the pinball league. And it wasn't until I saw Eric's name winning trophies that it made me realize, holy crap, we had Eric in our state. We never played tournaments against him. Well, he's a very good player. And yeah, you're right. He did win Indisc as well, which was amazing to watch. Oh, that was fantastic. Such good content all back-to-back weekends, right? Right. And this has been the joy of my break is that I'm now a spectator. So I actually get to finally catch up on podcasts. And I've been watching a lot of streaming. And that is what gives me joy. Marie Kondo style. Awesome. A couple other names I want to point out really quick. We've got Trent Augustine, Jim Belsito, Robert Gagno. These are all fantastic. Andy Rosa. He won the Stern Pro Circuit last year. I mean it is my good pal Robert Byers yeah yeah there's a slew of people he's there as well I mean it'd be one thing to get into the finals but then to face all these people you know what I mean yep so like I said congratulations to Dan Newman it was funny because our friend Stephen Strom moved down to Vegas but he came up for state finals because he'd been competing in our league the whole last year. And his wife was nice enough to make a Mountain Dew cheesecake and then topped it with Dorito Nacho Cheesier Chips. Oh, wow. And if you know Dan, Dan loves his Mountain Dew. So maybe that's – I don't know if it boosted him or if it made the rest of the competition have stomach aches and not play as well. Well done, Dan. Whatever it was that was your secret recipe, well done. Yep. So it'll be interesting. Do we know when finals are? I know they're usually in Vegas. They at least have been the last couple of times. I have a feeling that they're not in Vegas this time, but I don't know. I think your feeling is correct because I know when Keith won, he said, I'm going to Colorado. And so I think they're being held in Colorado this year. I could be entirely wrong. That sounds about right, but I don't know. It'll be great to see when, uh, when finals come up, obviously you'll have a little time to watch that. I will watch a lot of it. So, all right, let's move on. Uh, I got also on my notes. Um, we've already, we've already kind of talked about this, which is, you know, special and lit, uh, this week in pinball and you guys hanging up the reins along with pinball supernova. and the Canadian Pinball Podcast, if I remember correctly. Yeah, that's true, yeah. But the one thing I wanted to point out is the fans of all these podcasts. And I kind of told you about this, but they're going through the five stages of grief. There's people in denial. There's people with anger. I saw people bargaining to get Pinball Podcasts back. There's some depression, and there's some people accepting. but but yeah the full gamut absolutely it is um but look there are there are over 20 pinball podcasts out there i'm sure they're still there so i i look i've been saying you know this because i've said this to you before i said if you miss head to head listen to loser kid because i think there's just some similarity there so hopefully your listener base will triple. I hope so. That'd be awesome. Well, and the other thing I want to point out, I know that you said that, I can't remember if you said this on the podcast or if it was before we were recording, but you weren't burned out because of the podcast itself. It was just kind of life, you know? Yes, correct. Yeah. But all these podcasts that decided to hang up the reins were our weekly podcasts. I know. No. We really don't have a weekly podcast now except for, well, Kaneda. That's even more than twice weekly. Yeah. And do you know what? I don't know why I'm going to make this announcement, but when I did make that announcement, Chris from Kaneda's Pinball Podcast did actually reach out to me and said some really, really kind things. And I've always said that I like what he does. He pushes buttons and he gets people talking. And I think that's really important. It might not be for everybody. Not everybody's going to like his style, but I think he has a place in the podcasting world. And he wins the trippy for a reason. He's got a very loyal following and he's doing a lot of things right. So I just wanted to say that. So he was very kind when he reached out to me. I totally agree. And I think you've hit it right on the nose or right on the head is there's so much polarity around him. He must either be doing something entirely right or entirely wrong because people either love him or hate him. And there's no one else like that in the pinball podcasting world, in my opinion. Yeah, correct. Correct. I do want to bring this up. When we posted that you guys had hung up the reins, Stephen Haberman posted this on our Facebook page. I don't know if you read this, but he said, You guys have been amazing for the hobby and incredible stewards for the game. Thank you for all the time you've dedicated to this podcast, and may you all prosper in family, faith, fun, and food. And I don't think anyone else could have said it better because we all feel that way. I don't know anyone else. He said he didn't say gin, but I'm sure he meant that as well. He meant that as well. He was trying to keep – it was all F words, so, you know, family, food. Yeah. And, yeah, we did get a lot of really, really good positive messages, and there was a lot of sadness. And that's what happens when something that you enjoy comes to an end and kind of unexpected for some. So, yeah, I understand. But I think the warnings, not just with you, I think the warning signs have been there. Maybe it's because we're a tight-knit community. I do talk to a lot of these people, my friends behind the scenes. Some people have been telling me stuff behind the scenes leading up to the – with them shutting stuff down. And so it wasn't as big a shock to me. No. Word gets out. I mean, people talk, so it gets around. I really hadn't spoken to anybody about it, except people asking me whether it was going to continue. And I think my non-answers were pretty much the giveaway. But I've got to tell you, I was really surprised to hear about Twip and Special Enthusiasm. I had no idea that they were going to come to an end. You know, I'm not surprised. Okay, I'm not surprised with either. And my reason being is that Zach has spread himself thin. Like, I don't know how the man does it. Between – he did the podcast. He does straight down the middle. He does flipping out. He does all these things just for pinball alone. The man has a family with children too and a full-time job. So how long can you do a weekly podcast with all the other stuff? And I think he's really pushed the boundaries on making the hobby better. And so – Yeah. Yeah, and I think at that stage, you make a decision that says, I either stop doing what I'm doing because I'm not getting the returns or I do it bigger to get returns. Yep. Is that subtle enough? Yeah, I agree. And then the other thing with Ken Cromwell, Bill, he had the baby. He hasn't been there as much. But what really tipped me off is if you watch the special one-let stream, Ken had said a couple episodes back or a couple streams back that they were thinking about maybe giving up the podcast because streaming itself is so much easier to do. You turn it on. You do your thing. You turn it off. There's no editing. That's it. Yep. There's nothing. And you get to interact in real time with people. you get almost that instant buzz back versus waiting waiting a week or two for people to listen to the episode and then saying hey i finally heard this and by that time when they're reaching out to you're like what did i say that happens all the time but that's why i said that i'm going to continue streaming because exactly what you just said and i'm going to be streaming you know tonight after this podcast um because all i've got to do is set up my cameras turn it on stream for three hours, turn it off, go to bed. There's just nothing before or after I have to worry about. It's easier. It's not as many viewers. The amount of listeners that we had is infinitely more than the amount of streaming, but it's what gives you joy. And you're right. Interacting with all these people on Melbourne Silver Bowl is just so much fun for me. I totally agree. And I wish I could stay up later. You guys stream at midnight my time. And so I always wake up on Wednesday morning, whatever it is, and it says, Melbourne Silver Ball is live. And I'm like, no, they're not. It's 6 o'clock in the morning. Yeah, we're already done. There's this magical moment in the year, and I can't remember what it is, but I think it's around about April where our daylight savings just both change. and so that would be 10 o'clock your time. Okay. Something like that. I can't remember what it is, but there's some weird, and it only lasts for about two weeks, I think. Well, I can't wait for that. You guys are going to have to stream every night then. Yep. It's like a summer solstice or something, I'm sure. Yeah, it is. So there you go. Awesome. So we're excited. You've told us you've got stuff coming in the pipeline. I know a lot of people have heard stuff. We'll have to wait and see, but I don't think we'll have to wait long. I don't think you're going to have to wait long at all. I really think we're excited for whatever's coming around the corner. Yeah, I am. Well, since you're on, I wanted to do one thing while you're here. Because this – I wanted to go over some of the memories, but one of the things I remember most about the Head to Head Pinball podcast was the slam at the top 100. I knew this was coming. and I don't think I've ever got to take you on at this. I know we took on Scott last time you were on, or I took on Scott. Right, that's correct. Okay. And so I would like to do this, and then I want you to tell us some of your favorite memories of Head to Head, because there's a lot of stuff we don't get to see behind the scenes. Like you said, there's a lot of effort that's put into this, and so it's really cool to kind of get behind the scenes, and so I think people would appreciate that. Yeah, easy. Well, if you'll do the honors with Google, I've got Pinside pulled up. Okay. Oh, I need to get this all ready. Since you're the guest on the podcast, I will let you go first, even though you're more well-rehearsed than I am. I've not done this for a very long time. Okay. Where is Assistant? Here we go. Hey, Google, pick a number between 1 and 100. 88. No. It just said 12. I was like, what the? It did. Now, you can pick 12 or 88. What I forgot is I've got Google in every room in this, and I've got a three-story townhouse, so there's a Google box in every one. So my phone said 88, but my Google Home device said 12. Hmm. Do I want you to have, well, do I pick? first or do you want to pick first? So let's have a look at the two that we've got on offer. We've got Adam's Family versus Pinbot. Up to you. Let's go with this. And I will take Pinbot, even though I don't think I've honestly ever played Pinbot. I've played Jackbot and I've played Bride. I just don't know if I've ever laid my hands on a Pinbot. Have you played Adam's Family? Oh, yes. I owned one for about six months. Well, then you take Adam's family and I'll take PinBot. Okay. Sounds good. And I go first, don't I? Yes. Since you have the lower number, you go first. Let's explain the rules really quick for those that may have not listened to the earlier head-to-head stuff. So we're going to do two rounds, correct? Correct. So the first round, you must talk about your own machine. and then the second round you can either talk about your machine again or you can bash the other machine. And then we will send the information to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast Facebook page for the listeners to then decide who is the winner of slamming the top 100. That's how it works. Yes. And usually the better gift wins. Usually. Yeah. I mean, we're talking 88 versus 12, so it's going to be a tough one. Hey, I gave Scott the better gif for the last time we did this, and he did not win. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. So let's talk about PinBot. The first thing I'll say about PinBot is dream team. It's not dream theme, dream team. The whole concept was put together by Python Anghelo. He's awesome. and then the actual machine itself was designed by Barry Alsler, who we know has done some phenomenal games. But the real ace in the hole here is the music and the sound which is Chris Granner whom side note we had on Head to Head who amazing And what you've actually got is… 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Is that it? That's it. Wow. Dream team. Dream team. Dream team. It's all I've got. All righty. You tell me when. Oh, okay. Am I going to do the timer or are you? Oh, I can do the timer. That's no biggie. I will start now. So the Adams family, this is the holy grail of almost every pinball player out there. I mean, really, it's Pat Lawler. It's the design that sold over 24,000 units and went on to sell even more as a limited edition machine. between the magnets that trick you into being complacent and then have to save yourself to the wonderful – I don't – I'm out of time. Wonderful game. I don't know how you and Ryan did this every week. well they obviously they just became more and more ridiculous over time so it was all about just making it fun really um so it yeah it got much harder towards the end when we started going down to the 200 as well because ryan didn't know a lot of those so there was there was a site well i remember there at the end he was reading a lot of flyers oh no that was me oh no that's right Towards the end, he was as well because he just didn't know anything. So, all righty. Are you going to decide to either pump your machine or are you going to try to bash the Adams family? So, let me talk about Adams family. It is the highest selling pinball machine of all time. But, you know, Britney Spears has also sold a lot of records. It doesn't mean that her music is good, does it? and I think Adam's Family is one of the most, if not the most, overrated game. It's Pat Lawler, which I can't stand his games, and that layout is stupid and it's just ramp scoop, ramp scoop, ramp scoop. There you go. Tour the Mansion. Whatever. Boring. Perfect. That was 30 seconds. All right. I'm going after Pinbot, even though, yeah, I'm going after it. So you better hold on to your britches. all right pinbot obviously a turd of a game and i'll explain to you why this game was recreated three different times and why like why did we need a jackbot and a bride of pinbot like obviously the bride pinbot is not the same layout but jackbot is and what are you hitting a couple bank of targets so you can stick some balls in this dude's eye like it's not it's not fantastic by any means just not a great game Adam's family's better that's my 30 seconds yeah fair enough and you guys always reserved your opinion for later on these games because you didn't want it to affect no well I can tell you now I cannot stand Adam's family I have been on record many many times I know that and it took me so I bought it because of the fact that it was Adam's family and I'm kind of right there with you I'm not going to lie like I might put a couple quarters in it if I'm in the arcade and I've kind of played everything else but other than that I don't know if I'd ever own it again so it was nice while it lasted we'll put it that way fair enough I get that people love it well and I think do you want to buy a $6,000 Adams family depending on condition or do you want to buy a $6,000 Jurassic Park from Stern? I just think I look from kind of the collector slash buying perspective and so I feel like I can get more for the money of an Adams family with newer machines. So that's how I compare. And it's funny because we had a couple in my town that wanted a pinball machine and they said, hey, Josh, I saw you're getting ready to sell your Addams Family. What are you going to sell it for? And I said, well, the list price is $6,000, or it was like $5,800 or whatever it was. And they wouldn't even let me finish my train of what I was going to say. They're like, nope, not for us, which was funny because she said this was her Holy Grail pin. So I'm like, I guess obviously it's not that much of a grail if you're – Anyhow. Anyhow. We got some minutes left. I want to know some of your favorite memories. I want to give you some of mine of head-to-head. Look, obviously, the fondest memories I have are with my co-host. So Ryan C. and I decided to do this podcast just because we met each other. I think it was the second time we met each other. I was buying some mirror blades off him. We talked for an hour when I was trying to leave, but I was just having such a great conversation. And two days later, I went, hey, now that Pinheads is gone, let's do a podcast. And he's like, yeah, absolutely. And what I really enjoyed was just how our friendship grew over that time and the amount of laughs that we had. But really, I think for me, the highlights came from the people that we spoke to and really some of the key interviews that we did. Keith Owen, we interviewed him twice and he was amazing both times. Chris Granner, I mentioned before I say that that was my favourite interview that we did, we just didn't know where it was going to go but his enthusiasm and his connection to us and what we were saying just made this really cohesive free-flowing conversation that just had laughs, it had new information, it was just, you know, it was awesome. One of the other ones was when I got to do an interview with Gary Stern because, you know, Gary likes to give pretty much stock standard PR answers to a lot of questions. And the interview started that way. But then when I started talking to him about business models and manufacturing and really sort of getting to the, not even talking about themes or pinballs, or it was more sort of about running a business and what his involvement is. He sort of just really peaked and just started just giving all this really great information. And it was such a nice surprise. And then, you know, when I finished the interview, I thought, oh my God, I've just interviewed Gary Stern. That was really cool. You know, but I also then got to do things like a tour of the Stern Factory with Zach Sharp. That was amazing. I got to go to Jersey Jack's Factory and do a tour there. I got to go to all these different shows. I think one of the other highlights was getting absolutely hammered in a hotel room at TPF with some crazy people. That was lots of fun. Pinside Petey, always showing his face on our show, being very abusive, was always a highlight. I think that's off the top of my head. I really should have probably put more thought into it, but they're the things that come to my mind when I look back and I think of all the things that we achieved. And certainly 2018 was a massive, massive year as far as interviews go. Oh, I totally agree. And I remember, as you were talking about this, I remember these interviews. I love the Chris Granner interview. one of my favorites was the Roger Sharp and it was because we got him talking and he wouldn't stop and so we're cutting this into two pieces well not only that what actually happened was I think it was probably about nearly two hours into the interview I went and got my hair cut and came back and it was still going that is awesome it was hilarious Yes. Another one, Joe Kamenkow, he was also really good to speak to. He was just very knowledgeable. We got a lot of information about the Data East days that I hadn't really heard that much about. So that was good. Well, and when I think of head-to-head, there's a lot of podcasts out there that take themselves very seriously. And there was that to a point with you guys, but the shenanigans is just what I remember. calling Christopher Franchi at what four in the morning and be like what is going on why are you calling me and just stuff like that just the banter between you and Ryan and you know just hearing you and Joe's voice every week I think it's something that we've come to appreciate my earliest memory of you guys is just listening to the slam the top 100 there was an episode where you where you guys were like, which ones have we done? Have we, have we done these ones? Have we not done these ones? You and Ryan are like, we should really keep a list of this. And I was just like, Oh, was that you that you set the list? Yeah. And so I was like, well, that would be easy because you just run through the Facebook page in less than five minutes. You'll be, you got it. And so I sent it over and you guys like, how'd you do this so quick? And I was like, just looked at the Facebook page. Like it wasn't too big of a deal. But that's, that's the spirit. of head-to-head was that we would record. Obviously, you've seen our show notes, so you know how thorough they can be. But it was still just a guideline. And the point of the podcast was to just make each other laugh. That's what the point of it was. And then the second half of it, I guess the Joe years, was more to educate, I think is probably the best way to do it. And we also had some laughs as well. But, you know, just during the week leading up to recording with Ryan, he would spend most of his time trying to come up with some way to make me laugh. That's all he'd do. That's awesome. So it was good fun. Well, and it came through. It came through the podcast. And I think that's what people loved about it, is it felt so genuine. It wasn't just information being spouted out. It wasn't just a weekly rundown of the news. It was watching a friendship unfold on a podcast. That's what happened. Yeah. And feel like we were a part of it. It was like being in the room with you guys and just having fun. And so, I don't know. I appreciate the two and a half years you guys have put into this. I know I wasn't there since day one, but I know I was pretty dang close. And if it wasn't for you guys, if it wasn't for the Pinball Podcast, I wouldn't be where I am in the hobby now. I've been in the hobby for six, seven years now, but I really didn't take the dive until I started finding podcasts. And between you and Jeff, it just, that's what got me to love the hobby even more. And so. Thank you. You're welcome. And I will say that some of the notes that people had messaged, and I was quite surprised to hear this. People were saying, you were the person that got me into pinball. It's like, what? How is that even possible? But that's kind of what happened. And we did that to try and grow the Australian market, but this is what was happening internationally. So if there is some, and I would humbly say a small part that we've played in that, then that's great. But we are part of a community of content providers. And I guess my parting comment, I would say, is, and I know people aren't going to take this necessarily the way I want them to, But just be thankful to the people that are taking time out of their day to do this for absolutely no gain. And I say that because there's some things that we did in the podcast just for shits and giggles. And it got turned around and twisted. And then we got slammed for this. And then people were bringing up all these conspiracy theories. and we were just scratching our heads just thinking, all we're doing is turning the microphones on, talking for a couple of hours, putting it up, and it gets turned into something negative. That's not what podcasting is about. And I know Loser Kid are doing the same thing. You're doing it because you love pinball and you want to spread the word of pinball. So people out there that are listening to podcasts, really cherish what you get from these podcasts because there's a lot of effort that goes into it. For really, no gain. Well, you never know when they're going to shut down. And there's that too. So one last thing. The sun sets on the horizon. You guys are riding off as head-to-head into the sunset. Is there any advice that you have for new podcasts coming in to the pinball realm? Yeah, really, it is don't think about what you think the audience wants. be genuine have a good time do it for the love of what you do and if it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't matter as long as you get joy out of doing it that's what's important i totally agree you know what martin i really appreciate you coming on like i said i know people have said don't like meet your heroes i know it's kind of silly it's silly to say but I just appreciate not only head to head but we've gained a friendship over this loser kid you know even before that I think you can tell when someone's being genuine and I've always appreciated that about you and Ryan you know I think a lot of people can say that I don't know if it's I doubt it's just me I doubt you guys were just nice to me yeah well we can be horrible too but we for the most part we're good people but my point being is is is there i've brushed shoulders with a lot of people in this hobby and you can tell when people are doing it for the love of it and you can tell when people are doing it for uh let's say ulterior motives sure and and i've always appreciated that you've you've been upfront and honest and so i'm gonna leave it at that before i before i get myself in trouble oh good man i really appreciate all your support and i still don't forget the fact that you drove how many two and a half hours just to meet me in salt lake city that's not forgotten it was three but well you know who's counting who's counting let's round it up sure three hours that that kind of stuff i don't forget things like that that was really cool but it was a fun night it was even my brother-in-law that i brought with me that doesn't even play pinball was like we've got to do that again that was fantastic martin was awesome and i said well next time he's in utah let's go do it so for sure which who knows when that will be but who knows yeah and that's people have been asking me are you going to india are you going to tpf are you going to pinberg are you going to expo no plans this year i think 2021 you'll see me again. What are you talking about? We had convinced Joe that Robert Mueller had paid for your airplane and your hotel. Fun times. We'll always have those moments. Yeah, he wasn't happy with us. No, not at all. Well, this is the end of the show where I ask you where to find you. I don't know if you're going to tell us where to find you besides making your stream. I'll leave it up to you. If we want to get a hold of you, Martin, how do you want us to get a hold of you? you can get a hold of me at Melbourne Silverball so that's twitch.tv slash Melbourne Silverball I stream Wednesday nights and Sunday nights here in Australia which is I have no idea what time that is in the rest of the world and very likely you'll hear from me again soon so for Americans that's 11 Pacific and that would be 2 o'clock in the morning Eastern time so Yep, yep. But if you're streaming on Sunday, your Sunday, it would be Saturday for us. So order a pizza, stay up late, and have some fun with Marty. Exactly. If you want to find us, why not? If you want to find us, LoserKidPinballPodcasts at gmail.com. You can email us there. You can get a hold of us via Facebook. Just type in LoserKidPinballPodcast or on Instagram or wherever. you know we're pretty much on any platform at this point uh and also yeah i don't want to tell how to end it at this point because i don't want to say goodbye martin i don't think any of us want to say goodbye well i i can tell you now this probably won't be the last time that i'll be on the loser kid podcast so there's that there is that oh well you're always welcome back on we're excited for we've got some more guests that people get excited for coming back on uh we got a lot We've got a lot going on, so I don't think you'll hear it. Yeah, you guys are great. I really, really, really like your podcast. Well, that's what's funny is we had people reach out to us and, please don't tell us you're quitting. I didn't know you guys cared. People care. They really do. They do. So, thanks, Martin. Bye.