I'm I mean [laughter] that's that should be an easy question, but uh I don't know. There's a lot of art on I don't know. There's a lot of art on that playfield. I could imagine that. Not overwhelming, but there's just so many different spots. I mean, I think overall I'm I'm just pleased that it came out as as well as as it did, not just the art, but like the entire package with the rest of the team. Um, it came to came together very fast. So, I think when I look back on it, that'll be one of the things that I'm most most pleased with is that it almost birthed itself. Sure. Cuz Sure. Cuz I think one of my favorite like memories I think one of my favorite like memories of all these like Slack Zoom meetings that we had was, you know, when you were given the stage to talk about where the art was and then you would bring up your, you know, full full screen kind of like iteration of it and just see how different it was from the week before and the week before and it's just like it went through, you know, uh it shows a testament to your skill in terms of how fast you were able to both like create and iterate ideas. And you know, the team also helped you. There was a 3D mockup that Josh put together that we were able to put your artwork in to kind of visualize what the actual end product was going to be. Um, neat stuff like that. Show you that here, too. Show you that here, too. Yeah. Without further ado, let's let's Yeah. Without further ado, let's let's uh let's fly on over to maybe some of those assets so we can show everybody. Um Dustin's asking, he says, "Are you going to Houston Expo? And are they bringing more Winchester buttons like he had in Chicago?" That's right. Cuz you made a bunch of custom wooden stuff. Yes. And yes, definitely going to be Yes. And yes, definitely going to be there and definitely we'll have more. Uh hopefully this is working. This is Uh hopefully this is working. This is the first time that we've done this. I know that there's a bit of a gray gap on top, but uh hopefully you are experiencing our uh 3D 3D mockup asset of uh kind of final art assets put into the actual game. Yeah. So, you can see obviously this Yeah. So, you can see obviously this this isn't like um a proper shaped cabinet. The back box especially is like a weird it's a weird size. It doesn't match. But um this is largely how I would be working to gauge the overall visual and to kind of test the the flat artwork that I'm creating against the three-dimensional shapes that it that it lives in. So, uh, Carl was able to send me a step file, which, um, if I toggle this over, you know, it's just essentially the the like engineering of all the physical components underneath. You can even see some of the things that I didn't delete out, uh, coils and stuff like that, cuz we're not really worried about cuz we're not really worried about rendering speed when it comes to, uh, previewing this. [laughter] No. No. So where this really becomes uh No. No. So where this really becomes uh helpful is getting the player view right. So that sort of forcehortened angle that that the player is going to end up seeing it on which is pretty different from how I would see it working on an art file which would be like more straight on. Right. Right. And a critical difference to the Right. And a critical difference to the experience you know especially because you're looking at how the artwork kind of flows from foreground to background. Yeah. Yeah. And I like to try to find Yeah. Yeah. And I like to try to find opportunities to do things with like forced perspective. Um uh for example, the on the ramps, uh this the sort of perspective view of stair steps in the house. So you're faking the geometry of stair steps on what's a flat smooth surface that's angled away from the player. Another example is is back here on the the staircase to nowhere. Nowhere. Yeah. probably one of my Nowhere. Yeah. probably one of my favorite little features of the game. I think it's such a small like obviously the turntable and and other things are initially very cool, but just this like tiny little metal ramp that doesn't go anywhere that grabs a ball and then kind of poops it back into a scoop is just like very satisfying when you when you make the shots. Yeah. And I mean this is one of those Yeah. And I mean this is one of those things like if you can see where my cursor is. Yeah, we can. I would spend hours on on Yeah, we can. I would spend hours on on this area and you don't even really see most of this because this this piece in front is opaque. Um, but in actuality, this component right here is designed as a flat piece of art where the steps are sort of stretched so that when you look at it from a forhortened angle, then it looks like natural stair steps, right? Well, thankfully everyone that plays pinball apparently is this giant monster 8 foot tall person, so it's easy to see over that initial [laughter] first metal barrier. first metal barrier. Um, so the other thing I love about this Um, so the other thing I love about this is all the detail. So, can you talk a little bit about the color scheme because I know uh we had hue shifted the tones for the kind of hue shifted the tones for the kind of the blue and red um element a bunch and uh just you talked about it and the initial drawings that you did were amazingly bold in terms of color scheme and uh you know the whole game has a really loud color package and but it didn't it didn't start that way. Yeah. As you have here. Yeah. So, this this is like one of my Yeah. So, this this is like one of my earliest um I guess mood boards. And this this was probably pulled together for David to kick over to the licenser to, you know, to gauge the general direction and and make sure that there weren't any big red flags. We got the famous barrels of fun tan tan We got the famous barrels of fun tan tan man scenario going on. Yeah. [laughter] So like it and this is Yeah. [laughter] So like it and this is how I would think of things generally is it in my brain I start thinking more in like a monochromatic way just basic textures and things aren't super loud and I I generally I would I would defer to a more muted color palette but things always end up getting more saturated and brighter for the the pinball um you know pinball consumer kind of expects a certain amount of saturation And the question is like does it fit the license? Does it um does it clash with itself? Does it lead the eye around the right way? So, right. And I think eye motion is an right. And I think eye motion is an incredible important part with every element of a pinball machine is basically trying to guide the person as like a UI experience, right? Whether it's Yeah. Yeah. LCD screen stuff, audio assets. Yeah. LCD screen stuff, audio assets. Yeah. And so here you can see how you use the wisps to help kind of envision ball paths. Yeah. So this was pretty early on where Yeah. So this was pretty early on where it's like, okay, what if what if we're using these ghost wisps to, you know, direct the eye to the specific shot lines? And then somewhere along the lines we decided that uh we were going to have both um you know benevolent spirits and angry spirits as you know these these two like a dichotomy right so then in subsequent versions of this it was a matter of balancing those two colors for different shots. Um, you know, were you intimidated by putting a giant were you intimidated by putting a giant like schematic, you know, uh, room schematic right in the middle of the playfield? Cuz it takes it has to take up so much of the real estate. Yeah. Yeah. It it takes up a lot of the Yeah. Yeah. It it takes up a lot of the real estate. Um, I think floor plan is the word that I could not floor plan is the word that I could not think of. Yeah. I I think what what I was Yeah. I I think what what I was concerned about was that the the placement and the angle of those inserts didn't naturally correspond to the like gridlike structure of rooms and hallways. So, I needed to to make sure that Carl was okay with it not necessarily being a onetoone thing, you know, where the the floor plan could be maybe more of this like peace meal, right? right? Abstract in the way that it would need Abstract in the way that it would need to be in order to make sure that these inserts aren't boringly aligned and whatnot. Yeah. Um, Yeah. Um, but I mean it it it could have just as but I mean it it it could have just as well been important for that to be aligned and and that was a challenge for me because I I tried doing it that way and it felt more like looking at say like the map of terrain in like a Red Dead Redemption style game that takes place in the wilderness. Like it didn't feel like ar didn't feel like architecture. So [snorts] finding a a concept for myself that I could follow, which was that, okay, maybe these are scraps of blueprints that are kind of falling at weird angles on top of one one another. So it goes from being this like gridlike focus to being something that's a little bit more abstract. Yeah. Yeah. With burned edges, With burned edges, paper. Yeah. Plus the kind of paper. Yeah. Plus the kind of incorporation of these like wisps and stuff. Um, someone asked me this at expo. I'd love to have this in video just to nip any of that stupid [ __ ] But, uh, did you draw this or did you use AI, Brad? No AI was was used and no humans harmed No AI was was used and no humans harmed by AI in this process. There you go. These cobwebs came from There you go. These cobwebs came from human hands. Um, and but speaking of the wisp though, they went through a few iterations of how to make the wisps kind of like have I don't know a cool tail to them, for lack of a better word. Um, yeah, somewhere in here. yeah, somewhere in here. You know, and again though, Carl was You know, and again though, Carl was super supportive of pretty much every direction that we started to go down. I mean, like he would give his preference in terms of how things were developing, but uh I don't know what would you how was your experience working with Carl? Oh, it was great. I I loved having Oh, it was great. I I loved having essentially a singular point person um because we had a good um because we had a good a good experience I think um bouncing a good experience I think um bouncing ideas back and forth and it it cut extra cooks out of the kitchen. Um and we needed efficiency especially for and we needed efficiency especially for kind of like the timeline that we were on. Yeah. for me knowing that that he knew Yeah. for me knowing that that he knew what felt right and if say there were like two ways of going about something and if I didn't feel opinionated about it I could kick it over to him and he would very quickly be like yeah that one's good and then then I could run with it and not having to make all of those final decisions myself was helpful. So, similar to similar to Stern and their factory tours, uh, where you get to see code names for a lot of the games that are there. For example, uh, Buck is the code name for Fall of the Empire. Uh, Carrie is noticing that Springfield is the code name for Winchester. And that is correct. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. Um, so yeah, this is like one of the Um, so yeah, this is like one of the earlier uh or this is one of the the versions of the Yeah, I think this is this pretty far along if I think this is this pretty far along if not final. Um, this is an example of one of those things where I feel like you might look at anything that I've done and see that there's a consistent style, but for me, I go I have to go like a different way to end up there in the end. So, I don't have uh like a triedand-rue formula that I can follow with each new project, much to my like discomfort. I I love that. I love having kind of I I love that. I love having kind of like set from scratch like presets and stuff just force you down like the same path and yeah, you know, I mean, you know, I mean, yeah, yeah, I I do envy artists that that have a I I do envy artists that that have a tried andrue way of of doing their work because I I feel like it would be more efficient and more um not more reliable, but like the client knows what they're going to get. Sure. Whereas every new client that I Sure. Whereas every new client that I work with, even even previous clients on a new project, there's a lot of uh faith that has to be in place to kind of ride out the rough sketches because I don't even know yet what it's going to look like, much less them seeing through the sketch to it's hard to have a vision of what the it's hard to have a vision of what the final product is going to be if you are not either directly involved or experienced, whatever the either platform or artistic thing is. And I I feel that's one reason why it's awesome that the the Winchester whatever estate was so cool with everything. It was like, you know, it's not like they know what the process of of pinball machines uh start to finish is going to be like and and to see a bunch of rough stuff. You know, early ideas that are mocked up can can be scary to people that don't can can be scary to people that don't know. They're like, "Oh, this looks bad or whatever." And it's just like this is a a start of a path down a a final product that when you get there, you'll understand. So yeah, this is that's a great example of how the uh Wisps kind of went from early to new. Uhhuh. Yeah. And so this this is one of Uhhuh. Yeah. And so this this is one of those things where I've never needed to do this before. or I've never needed to do this before. or I might never need to do it again, but I I was trying to find the look that that felt right and was going to, you know, convey the thing, be a good user interface detail. And we also we didn't want to rip off And we also we didn't want to rip off like Ghostbusters or anything that had existed before. Like you came up with a really kind of like your own ectoplasmy kind of like vibe for these effects on the playfield. Yes. Yes. And that's a good frame of Yes. Yes. And that's a good frame of reference because I love Ghostbusters. I love what Zombie Yeti does, but I I didn't want it to be that. And he has a very specific style for his And he has a very specific style for his kind of like uh edging that goes on for those. Yeah, it's it's very um it's very line art inspired, which you know is actually my my biggest influence is line art, black and white artists, but for this it needed to be something more it needed to be something more painterly. And I had to teach myself a new process to to get the look. And so this like smearing of the texture, I had to learn how to create texture first, then smear it in a way that was a little bit chaotic where I didn't have total control over this brush, but it it made interesting textures that kind of was the right amount of like dangerous and and specific, right? Yeah, totally. Uh Jojo dojo, by the way, Yeah, totally. Uh Jojo dojo, by the way, please feed your questions if you have anything. This is the opportunity to to to bombard us with inquiries. Uh Joe's asking what tools would an artist need to know to well know well to work in pinball. Joe, you got to be more specific because there's so many different creative positions and stuff that go into uh pinball making. I mean, even the rules generation to a to a large degree is is a creative process. Um Oh, that's right. You did time-lapse videos, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I have so much of these. Yeah. Yeah. So, I have so much of these. I didn't even pick this one specifically. I just pulled one out. But you can see in the the upper right hand of the screen where there's this sort of fisheye look. That is where I composited um screenshots from Google Earth where I I positioned the view uh where I I kind of wanted to get a cinematic view looking up at the house. made like a a Frankenstein like template based on stock or uh reference images and then traced over it to make the final product. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it it's it was difficult Yeah. Yeah. And it it's it was difficult to do that because the the textures don't line up with one another. And so I had to kind of figure out or or fake some of the details so that they look right, but they rigid those different. But then you get that weird kind of like surrealist kind of vibe to it as well. I mean it is pinball in the end, right? Yeah. And you can also see I'm using uh Yeah. And you can also see I'm using uh kind of more of like a a pencil like brush here. Like it's it's textural. It's not a hard black edge like like maybe you again you'd see with like Zombie Yeti's art packages are like very clean, very beautifully inked. And this is this is way like more rough and tactile which is cool. Those both work, but I which is cool. Those both work, but I think it gave it its own kind of identity as well. Yeah. And I may or may not do this on Yeah. And I may or may not do this on the next project, you know, just this is kind of what felt interesting to me for for this and I think it lent itself to the the vibe of it. Sure. Can we pop up the back glass? I Sure. Can we pop up the back glass? I think this is obviously, you know, this is the show piece of the game. It's what people see the most of. It's used the most. And the uh kind of art assets for uh the uh kind of art assets for uh Oh, we've got a time you got a time Oh, we've got a time you got a time lapse on this, too. Yeah. Boy, this ghost had a lot of changes. If Boy, this ghost had a lot of changes. If you want to talk about that, Brad. Yeah. Yeah. So, um I think from the Yeah. Yeah. So, um I think from the beginning with the back glass, I I wanted to have a an iteration of Sarah, um inviting the viewer to the house in kind of a creepy way. So, it's it's a little bit off-putting, but it's also like bringing you into the experience. Um, I think some of the concerns that that we were working our way through were whether she had a Casper tail, quote unquote, quote unquote, cuz we really didn't want or I should cuz we really didn't want or I should say Carl the team in general was really worried about things not looking like they were not original, but like that we were stealing or taking from other ideas and we wanted the Winchester to have its really its own identity. Mhm. Yeah. She doesn't look really Mhm. Yeah. She doesn't look really anything like previous iterations of Sarah that they've had. And thankfully they they let us kind of do do what I did, right? right? Um and uh Julian Brown, she was able to Um and uh Julian Brown, she was able to kind of send me one of her 3D models as a as like a pose to, you know, kind of mock it up with. And then I did some some further posing. Um took photos. And did you model yourself? You like got up did you model yourself? You like got up against the wall and you were just like, "Welcome to I'm Brad inviting you to the "Welcome to I'm Brad inviting you to the Winchester. My my delicate [laughter] features." My my delicate [laughter] features." You like pulled a a Titan Titanic like You like pulled a a Titan Titanic like moment [laughter]