Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Ep 59: The King of Flow, Steve Ritchie

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·52m 33s·analyzed·May 1, 2021
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Steve Ritchie discusses 47-year pinball design career, recent games, and philosophy on flow-based design.

Summary

Steve Ritchie, legendary pinball designer with 47+ years in the industry, discusses his career spanning Atari, Williams, Stern, and current work at Jersey Jack Pinball. He reflects on designing 30-40 games across pinball, slot machines, and redemption titles, with emphasis on design philosophy centered on flow and player accessibility. Key topics include the Black Knight Sword of Rage topper innovation, his three music-themed games (Elvis, ACDC, Led Zeppelin), design process evolution, and collaboration with younger programmers like Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson.

Key Claims

  • Steve Ritchie has designed approximately 30-40 games across pinball, slot machines, redemption games, and novelty games

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie directly stated '30-something probably or maybe up to 40, somewhere in there' when asked how many games he designed

  • High Speed sold close to 16,000 units and was a major commercial success

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie stated 'high speed was a monster. We sold like, I don't know, close to 16,000'

  • Flash Games sold 19,250 units in one year, which was Steve Ritchie's first game at Williams

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie: 'I sold 19,250 flash games when my first game at williams um that's a big number it took a year to make them'

  • Steve Ritchie is 71 years old and going deaf

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie: 'I am 71 years old, going deaf'

  • Black Knight Sword of Rage was designed partly as an escape from frustrating licensing experiences

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie: 'I was looking to run away from the misery of dealing with licensors two in a row that were just very frustrating for me'

  • Led Zeppelin Premium/LE features expression lights in the cabinet that sync with music and affect scoring based on color

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie explained expression lights that 'have to do with pitch, the beat. He's changing the color... the color changes... they make your score higher if you know what you're doing'

  • Steve Ritchie named Mortal Kombat with a 'K' and provided voice acting for Shao Kahn

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie: 'I did the speech. I did name it with Kombat with a K and Mortal... I did a speech for them'

  • Steve Ritchie was at Williams for 20 years and has been at Stern for 16-17 years

    high confidence · Steve Ritchie: 'I was there for 20 years' (Williams) and 'after 16 or 17 years here' (Stern)

Notable Quotes

  • “For me to play that game is like, it is the most intense pinball machine ever made. And I played them all.”

    Steve Ritchie @ ~13:30 — Ritchie's assessment of Black Knight Sword of Rage as his personal favorite in terms of intensity and design quality

  • “I have another, you know, monkey on my back. It's called make it smooth. And so I won't pick just any shot. I can't because I don't want to hate a shot.”

    Steve Ritchie @ ~16:00 — Core design philosophy about shot quality and avoiding compromises in playfield layout

  • “Games have to speak because they do. They got to tell people what to do. It's like it's such a good communication tool.”

    Steve Ritchie @ ~21:45 — Response to Robert Plant's question about why games need to speak; highlights importance of voice and communication in design

  • “I'm better than an average player by far, but I'm not great. And so I kind of fight for the guy on the street.”

    Steve Ritchie @ ~59:00 — Ritchie's design philosophy prioritizing casual players while accommodating competitive depth

  • “You can't have people's egos getting in the way. You've got to spread it out. You've got to make those things happen, and it's got to take the best of the best.”

    Steve Ritchie @ ~6:30 — Philosophy on collaboration and team dynamics in game design

  • “It's like people around here, they think I've done too many voices for games. I don't know why they say that.”

    Steve Ritchie @ ~48:30 — Indirect commentary on voice work volume and internal studio dynamics at Stern

  • “Plastics. I hate them.”

    Steve Ritchie @ ~43:00 — Candid criticism of plastic ramps/components in modern pinball design, highlighting ongoing design challenges

  • “A game has to be fun it has to be fun for everyone in some way or other”

    Steve Ritchie — Core philosophy on game design accessibility and universal appeal

Entities

Steve RitchiepersonJosh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonTim SextonpersonRaymond DavidsonpersonJohn RothermelpersonElliotperson

Signals

  • ?

    design_innovation: Black Knight Sword of Rage features articulating topper head that nods and shakes side-to-side with expressive insults; mechanical engineer Elliot refined concept from Steve Ritchie's vision

    high · Steve Ritchie detailed the topper: 'I wanted it to speak. I want it up and down. I want it to be able to nod its head up and down and shake its head sideways... you have a lot of different positions the head can be in, a lot of different expressions'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Led Zeppelin features 'expression lights' in cabinet sides synced to music pitch/beat with color changes that affect scoring; first time Stern built this feature into standard cabinet

    high · Steve Ritchie: 'It has to do with pitch, the beat. He's changing the color... the color changes... they make your score higher if you know what you're doing'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Steve Ritchie designs for casual/street players while accommodating high-end competitive play through programmer Tim Sexton's rule depth

    high · Steve Ritchie: 'I kind of fight for the guy on the street... if they make all the good players happy, I'm happy... a game has to be fun for everyone'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie (71) collaborates with younger programmers Tim Sexton and Raymond Davidson; describes relationship as harmonious without ego conflicts

    high · Steve Ritchie: 'There just wasn't much argument or anything... We just got along and picked the best thing for the game'

  • ?

    design_process: Steve Ritchie creates 2D hand drawings and side views; mechanical engineer John Rothermel converts to SolidWorks 3D models for manufacturing precision

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.158

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast this is episode number 59 i am josh roop with me my co-host as always scott larson and josh let's uh get the the friends of the show out of the way first before we get to our featured guest want to start off with uh flipping out pinball if you want to get that new machine in your house go ahead and check out uh zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out Pinball. My last delivery was Led Zeppelin Premium, and I'm enjoying it a lot. Just upgraded the code. Next, if you're looking for the week, this week in pinball, go ahead and check out Jeff Patterson's site. It gives you a top five rundown of all the things going on in pinball. Also, Pinball Supernova, another resource that you can go to with links of tips of how to tune up your game and also other resources to discuss all things pinball. If you want to get a different Translite for your classic Williams Valley game, go ahead and check out Flyland Designs. I have the Medieval Madness alternative Translite, and I just got the blades in.
1:08
Also, if you want to display those Translites that are collecting dust in your attic, go ahead and check out Brad at Lit Frames. A perfect way of displaying all those Translites, and it's easy to swap them out. If you just want to get a few of them and keep mixing up the ambiance in your game room, go ahead and check out Brad at Lit Frames.
1:28
Pinshades, if you want to see those games a little better, especially on location, they are polarized lenses that you can play a little better, especially with those on location.
1:39
Basically, all those glasses tend to have some glare on them, so it'll take that out. If you want to learn how to play that game, go ahead and check out Ray Day Pinball, currently world number one. and also works at Stern. So he's also designing and helping work on the rules and the coding there. You can check out the Pinball Loft, which is my buddy's site. It's his personal blog on that. Also, we have streaming. Josh, are you still doing any streaming?

Steve Ritchie designed the first expression lights on Star Trek LE

medium confidence · Steve Ritchie: 'I did that first on Star Trek, but very few people remember that' regarding expression lights

@ ~60:30
Stefan Jensen
person
Ed Boonperson
Chuckperson
Danaiperson
Ray Dayperson
Zachperson
Nicoleperson
Kevin O'Connorperson
Wyman Sheetsperson
Dennis Nordmanperson
Pat Lawlorperson
Robert Plantperson
Stern Pinballcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Williamscompany
Ataricompany
Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
Led Zeppelingame

high · Steve Ritchie: 'I always make drawings... I only build it in 2D... Then he converts it to a SolidWorks game that is in 3D with all the components'

  • ?

    product_concern: Steve Ritchie expresses frustration with plastic ramps/components causing ball hang-ups and requiring iterative refinement

    high · Steve Ritchie: 'Plastics are a pain because you put the game together and the ball hangs up all kinds of places... I have to work around that add more plastic'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Steve Ritchie experienced 'very frustrating' licensing interactions with two recent licensors, influencing decision to design Black Knight instead

    high · Steve Ritchie: 'I was looking to run away from the misery of dealing with licensors two in a row that were just very frustrating for me'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Robert Plant (Led Zeppelin) questioned why a pinball game needs to speak; licensing package restrictions limited iconic imagery available for game design

    high · Steve Ritchie: 'Robert Plant did say this, though. He said, why does a game need to speak?'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Different pinball manufacturers use varied terminology: Williams called them 'jet bumpers'; Stern uses 'pop bumpers'; Atari used 'thumper bumpers'

    high · Steve Ritchie: 'I was there for 20 years and that's what we call them jet bumpers... Here they call them pop bumpers... at Atari... they called them thumper bumpers'

  • ?

    historical_signal: High Speed sold approximately 16,000 units and generated significant operator revenue; one operator reported $50,000 profit per machine in five years (1980s era)

    high · Steve Ritchie: 'high speed was a monster. We sold like, I don't know, close to 16,000... One guy called me... I have two high speeds out on location, and they have made me $50,000... each'

    • 2:10
    I'm getting hopefully a new computer so we can start streaming again. So we'll see where we're going with that.
    2:16
    All right. Sounds good. And Josh, now, who do we have on the podcast today? So this man has been in pinball for many, many years. His designs have helped influence and start new generations of designers. His high speed is regarded as one of the best games that was ever made and inspired a lot of people to get into designing their own pinball machines. Also, he was the voice of Shao Kahn in the Mortal Kombat series. With us today is the king, Steve Ritchie. How are you doing, Steve? I'm doing great. How are you guys doing? Well, we're doing great. It's a beautiful springtime day here in Utah. How is it in Chicago right now? Yeah, it's a little overcast. It was raining earlier, but I don't care. We're inside. I'm happy to be here. Well, Steve, we appreciate you taking your time out. I know it can be a little difficult to record for you, so we appreciate being able to set this up. I've told the story many times how I bumped into you You were staying across the hall at the Rocky Mountain Pinball Show And came out and bumped in And we ended up having a little adventure That's when you started telling me about the Black Knight Topper And how it had an articulating head that moved around and insulted you And I knew immediately as soon as that topper came out I was going to get that Cool. You know, I didn't do all the work on it. I want to make that clear. The idea is mine. I got a document written up. You know, I wanted it to speak. I want it up and down. I want it to be able to nod its head up and down and shake its head sideways. You know, and when you have those two abilities, you can also mix them in together. So you have a lot of different, you know, positions the head can be in, a lot of different expressions. I have to say thank you to quite a few people like Elliot is a great mechanical engineer and he really did the work on it to make it work. I didn't really, I dispected I didn't make it work. But one of my flame boards was in there, two of them, I'm sorry and also Tim, Tim Sexton, who's a great programmer and a good friend, and it's like we're mutton, Jeff. I am 71 years old, going deaf. Okay, he's like 28, and he's like me. He loves pinball. And the way we work together is like just so nice. That's what I can say. You know, we didn't really argue or anything. There just wasn't much. You know, we just got along and picked the best thing for the game, and that's always the most important thing. You can't have people's egos getting in the way. You've got to spread it out. You've got to make those things happen, and it's got to take the best of the best. From where it comes from, if somebody has a good idea and they want to give it to me, I'll take it. I will say thank you. But I also reserve the right to say no way. No way. Like that. Okay, anyway.
    5:24
    Do you know how many games you have designed over your career? No, but there's a lot. It's like not all pinball either. like I had two slot machine designs, a couple of redemption games, novelty games. Once I was working on a magnet game, it was weird.
    5:44
    I don't know. It's 30-something probably or maybe up to 40, somewhere in there. So on the topic of Black Knight Sword of Rage, what made you want to go back and do another Black Knight game? Okay, I'm going to say this as delicately as possible. I was looking to run away from the misery of dealing with licensors two in a row that were just very frustrating for me.
    6:11
    It probably wasn't such a great choice because I probably could have done better with a movie theme or whatever. Young people today don't even know what Black Knight is. But once you play the game, I don't know. I don't think it matters. That's my feeling, okay? For me to play that game is like, it is the most intense pinball machine ever made. And I played them all. It just is. It's like, it is what I wanted, too. It is exactly what I wanted. And, you know, Tim again. We did two games in a row together. So it's like Tim did a great job on it. And it's just, you know, good, fun rules, speech. Nobody would tell us what to do about anything, you know. run home to mother maggot i don't know if they'd let me say that you know it's like anybody any licensor okay but anyway we kind of cut loose there isn't any bad words or anything but maggot isn't very nice is it yeah okay it's perfect that i the thing i thought that was nice about it is it was the first game that i played the one it felt accessible to a younger audience because it felt like they were playing a video game yeah kids are more used to the video game aspect of it and so i felt that was a very easy way for them to say oh i understand i i know what i'm supposed to do i'm fighting this monster and i need to shoot these shots yeah and i have to speak to that too those our artist group is incredible and that was led by um you know chuck but the artist, his name is Danai, and he is so talented. He's incredible. He's here today. Very few people are here today. I am at Stern in my office full of garbage. It isn't really. You would think it's full of treasure.
    8:03
    Any pinball person would, but, you know, if you're a pinball designer, you're surrounded by parts. I mean, you can't see them all. My whole desk is covered with parts and junk. Not really junk. good stuff but you know anyway we were talking about uh black knight and it's like somebody said you know they you know there's nothing new on the game and it's just i don't know how you could say that i just don't i think it's a lot of fun my friend down the street he has an le and he has the topper as well and when you crank up that soundtrack it rocks the house And it's hard. It's what it's one of the hardest games because you miss a shot and it's coming back at you really fast. I got scores about 550 million. And it's like, you know, I just got that like last week. I have one in my living room. I have a premium with the top. And but it's got some nice special parts of it.
    9:03
    Anyway. Yeah, Black Knight was was a fun game to make. So, Steve, you have been doing this for many years. How has your design process changed over the years? And is there anything that kind of remains the same when you get ready to design a new pinball machine? Well, some things have changed. You know, we have cool electronics like the digital spinner. And there's like any of the newer inventions that we have. Many of them I create. Some other people create.
    9:35
    But really, a ball guide is a ball guide. It's 60,000 stainless. and it has been forever. So it's like not that much has changed. You know, for me, I try to create new shots when I can. But for me, I have another, you know, monkey on my back. It's called make it smooth. And so I won't pick just any shot. I can't because I don't want to hate a shot. I like a shot that feels satisfying. And so I don't take shots that are compromises. I don't use them. It feels like your games are meant to be played at full speed. I would say that there seems to be very little incentive to, I'm going to slow down and line up a shot. It seems like your design is, I'm intending to shoot the ball when it is going fast. and it's coming at me and feeding my flipper. Yeah. It feels to me, engineered, that you are ready to hit the ball and hit it on the fly and hit it at 10,000 miles an hour. Is that fair to say? Well, it's fair to say, but not everybody reacts that way. A lot of people still, like Wyman Sheets was in here. He would stop the ball, line it up. Wait a minute, somebody's here. I would like to introduce you to someone. this is my friend and you can't you got to be in the camera there you go this is my friend and the mechanical engineer for almost every game i have made here john rothermel is his name and he's all right he's done some really fine work and it's like i greatly appreciate having him on my team and that's how it is all right anyway all right um nice meeting you likewise John Rothermill, ladies and gentlemen. Hey, John, I love the electric spinner. I didn't do that. Electric magic? Oh, there you go. Yeah, that's one of my engineers. Right. We have Elliot Iceman did that. I farmed it out. You know, I don't do everything. Ah. I did. I did the concept, but I didn't do any work on it again. Elliot did it. Elliot made it work. Yep.
    11:54
    So I can't take credit for this one. It's funny that he calls that up. Ask him about the flail on Black Knight. Oh, yeah. No, that's great. It was a beast. It's like tough as nails. Where did the concept for the flail come from?
    12:14
    Me and Kevin O'Connor brought me a drawing here. I'm going to show it to you. I don't know if you can see that. Yeah. Okay. That's awesome. It's the Black Knight. He's kind of kneeling on a bunch of skulls, and he has a flail in his hand. And I didn't put it together until I'm looking at it. Wyman was in here, too, and I said, wow, it would be cool to have a flail on it, but one side it would be imbalanced. It would be a train wreck on a pinball machine spinning as fast as it does with a big old motor. So I ended up putting two ends on it, two balls. It happened from a bunch of people, actually. but I did, you know, I made a drawing of it and stuck it in the game and John refined it totally. You know, I do like talking about Black Knight, but I want to talk about the latest game I want to talk about Led Zeppelin Sure So this is your second music game That not true I sorry Oh what was the third Elvis was first. Oh. And then ACDC, and then Led Zeppelin. Oh, okay. I have yet to see an Elvis in person, so it did not bubble to the top. But I have played ACDC a lot, and I do own a Led Zeppelin. Okay, that's cool. I'm glad you do. I mean, I'm really happy that you like it, of course.
    13:38
    I'm staring at the play field right now because it's out of my cabinet. My cabinet's got my latest game in it. I mean, we just went bang, bang, bang. My new game is almost ready to play. Oh, there you go. I mean, it's got a long way to go with development, software, and all this other stuff, but it's kind of ready to shoot.
    13:56
    Nice. It shoots. With ACDC versus Led Zeppelin versus Elvis, they are very different artists so how do you approach that and design a pinball machine around a music pin that have different styles i i get assigned an artist sometimes i can ask and they'll give me the artist sometimes i just get who i get and it's like it's okay because i I like working with all of them. And Stefan Jensen is like, he's the guy that did all the art.
    14:32
    He's super talented. He has his own company called Warnstar Clothes. Have you heard of that? Warnstar, W-O-R-N. Check it out. No. It's Warn.
    14:48
    And anyway, he's really talented. He's the guy that came up with all the artwork. You know, we had to deal with the licensor. They weren't too bad, not anywhere near as bad as others.
    15:06
    Robert Plant did say this, though. He said, why does a game need to speak? I don't know what anybody answered. He didn't say it to me. He said it to our licensing guy. So it's like, I don't know. Games have to speak because they do. They got to tell people what to do. It's like it's it's such a good communication tool. It made a huge difference when we had, you know, between having a game that could not speak, couldn't say anything. And, you know, then then we do what Gorgar and Firepower is the second game. It's both. So it's like it makes a huge difference. You know what to do. Just it gets you involved. It's more immersive. I was going to say, I know you're a rock star in your own right You play guitar and whatnot, you were in a band Is Led Zeppelin one of the bands that you loved growing up? Is this kind of your dream theme? Absolutely, we played a lot of their tunes And I ripped off Jimmy for his licks so much But he taught me a lot I'd sit down with a record and just beat on it I even have the same guitar, I had a Les Paul custom, I still have it In fact, all the songs that I've written for pinball are written on that guitar. And I've written a lot of songs like for, I don't know, high speed. But I mean, the sound system there could not play it right. High speed is a drag.
    16:32
    I almost hate it. Anyway, I hate how it sounds. Black Knight 2000. Yeah, it rocked. That had a lot of good musicians on it. um brian schmidt um uh dan ford great musician and a great just a great coach for speech and talking anyway um well you were talking about we were talking about art but i also do want to talk about you know the different approach to the play the playfield layout that you have with different games and you you have elvis acdc led zeppelin is there something about the band that makes you design a layout a certain way? With ACDC, yes. Then big representative things like the bell, okay, the train, you know, the cannons, they always have that.
    17:29
    You know, a lot of cool stuff. What's up one's a little sparse on that. It's like, and there'd be, I would say the, you know, the document we got listing what we could use and what we couldn't was a little thin, but it was usable. Definitely a lot of usable stuff. And we got more with some, some photographs and stuff. Yeah. To put up each time you have to make a package that, that utilizes what you can use and, and some wise choices maybe for what's iconic. I mean, what's up in one album is iconic. I think it had to go on the premium. Let's Up on 3, people like that album also. And it's like, I have that on this game here. It's a mishmash. It's a bunch of stuff. Anyway, yeah, I don't know. That's, I think you catch my drift. If you've got a lot of toys, a lot of things going on, you know, or even song titles sometimes. But it's like, I suppose I could have added like a Viking ship for, what's the name of that tune? I can't think of it Which one, Immigrant Song? Yeah, the Immigrant Song, I'm sorry It's an odd name for it, I mean it's basically a death song We're coming to get you It's like watching Vikings Invade England Or whatever There's a lot of other connections there Icarus He's a big part of it Electric Magic We got that name from a poster that was one of their concerts. It was entitled Electric Magic. So that's what the band was, too, kind of. I've seen them twice. I mean, the third row back at Berkeley Community Theater in 1969 or 70, I think.
    19:23
    And then after I was in the Coast Guard, and I took my brother to see them at Kezar Stadium in San Francisco.
    19:31
    And they're a great band, maybe the best band ever. Did you ever think of doing any of the voices for Led Zeppelin yourself since you've done a lot of voices for your games? No, it's like people around here, they think I've done too many voices for games.
    19:48
    I don't know why they say that, but sometimes I just, you know, I don't know if there was a place for it here. I don't do a good English accent. What's your favorite part of designing?
    20:02
    It really is like where I'm at right now. I'm at a place where I can shoot the game, and I'm happy with the shots. I've got a couple of little things I need to fix, but the big stuff is done, and it's nice, just nice. And so, yeah, this is one of my favorite parts. It's like, you know, some people don't make a drawing. Some designers, like Dennis Nordman, he doesn't make a drawing. He makes a 3D model out of foam core.
    20:37
    And I always make drawings. And when I make my drawing and, you know, see the parts all work together, I know that it's going to be repeatable. I know we're going to make it in production. And also it's like they don't really use my drawing. I draw it. I draw my game only for John Rothermel. And then he converts it to a SolidWorks game that is in 3D with all the components on it. and it's a little more accurate than AutoCAD is, and it's also, you know, a lot more, you know, you can see things, you can see interferences, heights, all this stuff that I can still draw and see that stuff, but it takes me a lot longer to do side views. I wish I could show you that, but I can't.
    21:21
    You know, anyway, all you have to do is rotate his model, and you can see everything. Mine is, I only build it in 2D. That's it. Then I do a side view, and that gives me height so between those two things I manage. Anyway, part of the game I like best is right about now, just having the shots out of the way. Now it's going to be like adding toys and, you know, getting it ready with the – I don't even have any inserts on this model here, but I have them drawn now on my drawing. So that's, you know, when I say inserts, I'm talking about the little windows, you know. Do you know what inserts are? Do you guys speak that language? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The little colored jewels on the play field. That's right.
    22:10
    So, but I have them on my drawing, and I'm working on those. I'm not completely done. I have to finish by Friday or Monday. And so I'm never going to make a whitewood of this thing. So what do I hate the worst? Plastics. I hate them. So plastic ramps?
    22:28
    Just the plastics. Not plastic ramps. Plastic ramps are nice. I don't even design them. John does. I tell him how high and what the radiuses are and all that, and he develops the ramps. Metal ramps I will draw a top view. Well, I draw a top view of every ramp, but he modified it a little bit. It's okay. It's fine. plastics are a pain because you put the game together and the ball hangs up all kinds of places you know that's like you got a post screw and there's a little nut on it you know often they're ball hang-ups I mean it's like I have to work around that add more plastic you know add stuff to prevent ball hang-ups when I try to be as diligent as possible but it's like yeah they're of pain and there's so many it's it's many different layers that you know you have posts that go down in the play field and spacing and areas where you want artwork areas where you want to clear it's just a pain so i'll be doing plastics you know i've got a sheet going up with this game with all the parts that i've drawn so far but it's like i'll have to keep going back and back and back until it gets more and more refined one of the questions i have is the people that came from Williams for some odd reason called pop bumpers jets. Do you know why they like, I've even heard that people that integrated from Williams into Stern and whatnot call the pop bumpers jets. Do you know why that is? Or is there a specific reason they're called jets to those people?
    24:03
    I say the word jets a lot. I was there for 20 years and that's what we call them jet bumpers. Okay. Here they call them pop bumpers. I'm getting close to doing it all right after 16 or 17 years here. Once in a while, I'll say pop bumper.
    24:18
    But, you know, I'm really all going, like when I worked at Atari, and it was kind of ballet influence, they called them thumper bumpers.
    24:28
    I'm not sure what your whole question was, Josh. I didn't know if you knew where that term derived from or if it was just kind of that's where you worked and that's what they called them. yeah I mean each company has a language I don't know Jersey Jack's language it's probably more like Williams than here but it's like you know I'm kind of the guy that said green is lock right from firepower on green is lock it teach people this but you know some people have made them purple you know Gottlieb was big on that I don't know there are languages like here the official name for a ball guide, you know, a flat piece of metal, you know, 1.1 inches high where the ball follows. You know what I'm talking about, stainless steel, right? A ball guide. Yeah. They're called flat rails here. I always call them ball guides and wire forms. Wire forms are the wires that get pounded into the play field, you know, to separate things and, like, create the inside of lanes, that sort of stuff. Steve, on Led Zeppelin Premium and LE, there are the lights that are in the cabinet on the sides. Yeah. So that's the first time that Stern has put that in. There have been aftermarket things that have done them in previous games.
    25:55
    Well, not built into the cabinet wall. Right. I did that first on Star Trek, but very few people remember that. Well, Star Trek had on the LE didn't have the lasers.
    26:08
    The LE did have the lasers. That's a different thing. That from between the flippers right on the lower arch Yeah So I don understand But anyway I called the expression lights I explained them the first day that I told them I wanted to do Led Zeppelin with those lights in it in time with the music. Tim and Raymond Davidson, you know, stepped that up big time. And he's done some amazing stuff. I mean, it's not just – it has to do with pitch, the beat. He's changing the color. You know that the color changes, you know, they make your score higher if you know what you're doing. Oh, I didn't know that. Now you do. You need to read the new rule sheet because they are amazing. I like how they light up the play field, yet they're not in your face bright, miserable, uncomfortable. They're comfortable to look at, and it just makes the game rock. There's no question.
    27:06
    I have a prototype whitewood in my house without those lights. because they didn't have any for me. That ain't going to happen again.
    27:17
    Well, I think it's great. I think it's a great idea, hopefully, with future designs to be incorporating similar things because you're right, it does make the play field so much brighter. Yeah, I mean, and when it rocks with the music, it's just, and you know the rules, what's going on, that's really thrilling. I don't know, it's just fun. so steve uh one of the things that i want to ask you is mortal combat is huge right now a movie just came out the game's been around for years how is it being a part of something like that came from a small company in chicago that has now kind of helped drive pop culture and maybe redefine gaming it feels good you know it's like i'm not as big of a part as virtually anybody else that worked on Mortal Kombat. I did the speech. I did name it with Kombat with a K and Mortal. It's like they had Mortal on the board. And I did that, and I did a speech for them. The script was probably written by Ed Boon and probably Dan Ford. I don't know. Some things just came out, too, that I said, you know,
    28:27
    that happens every time we do a game. Somebody will blurt something, go, oh, that's good. We're going to put it in the game. Yeah, the voice of Shao Kahn is different than any other voice. I can still do him.
    28:41
    Fatality. Sonya wins. So, yeah, Mortal Kombat is kind of like they're all my friends. Ed Boon is the guy, the mastermind who came up with it. I don't know. It was a great idea, no doubt. It was just a brutal fighting game. The others didn't even come close. Pretty nasty, but it turns out people like nasty. Yeah, I'm assuming you're comparing it to Street Fighter, which was a different vibe, and Mortal Kombat came along at the same time. Well, they're still making Mortal Kombat games. They're not making new Street Fighter games. Yeah. I did see the movie. I think I saw it last Friday night. Oh, how was it? On HBO Max. It's better than the other ones. I liked it. I know the characters. It's kind of cool. The story was decent. I watched the whole movie. I didn't fall asleep. It was decent. Was it weird, though, to watch that and be like, hey, I know who that is, character-wise and whatnot, just because it's something that you guys worked in a small office in Chicago, and now it's on the big screen kind of thing? Yeah, actually, it was a pretty big office. They had a big chunk of the lower floor. um you know it was in the back of williams but they had a decent spot and then they ended up being uh you know in a separate building across the street i like to see the building though now and then we spend so many so many hours in there it's a cool place it was also the best group of game design people i ever worked with although stern is stern is rocking right now too yeah you guys are definitely kicking out some great titles and some great games right now yeah we have good stuff and almost everybody is, you know, is working to their, you know, their best ability and there's some mighty talent here, no doubt. Now, speaking of that, you mentioned, you know, Raymond Davidson, Tim Sexton, these guys who are the younger, the younger, newer pinball players than the people who were around in the 90s. what do they bring to the table to change the games nowadays versus how design was in the 90s um tim and well ray davidson's coming on you know he's been been with us for about a year maybe i'm not sure but uh tim tim brings a lot to the breadth of the rules do you know what i mean not just the depth. It's like stuff like, Oh, the inserts are changing color. It's red. I did this boom, 6 million. You know, it's like, Tim is very good at making things happen on the play field that I'm never going to get to probably, but I like our relationship because I could say, you know what? I have to get an extra ball here. I have to, otherwise I'm not going to, you know, I, I'm not going to be able to ever get any further, you know? So it's like, you know, I'm like, I'm better than an average player by far, but I'm not great. And so I kind of fight for the guy on the street. You know what I mean? When I can, if I need to. The high-end stuff, that's fine. Tim does things that I don't even know about on the game. Lyman also. You know, I'm never going to get there. I don't know what to do with it when I get there. I know a little more about Led Zeppelin than I did say about the high end of ACDC and I don't know that's fine, I love working with them, if they make all the good players happy, I'm happy definitely, and if we can get average players normal street people having fun, that's what I'm invested in, because a game has to be fun it has to be fun for everyone in some way or other are the games that you've designed over the years is there a specific one that's just your baby or your your favorite one or one that stands out that was just different designing than the rest i don't know to me it's like at williams it was all about how many you can sell i sold 19,250 flash games when my first game at williams um that's a big number it took a year to make them one year.
    33:11
    But after that, our company expanded. We had a lot of capital, and they were coming from runs that were much, much smaller. In fact, they were fading away kind of. It wasn't a good era, 1977, 76, not for them.
    33:27
    Also, they had old components. Like a flipper would be three parts. It would have a bracket with a coil on it, and then another bracket supporting the rotating part of the belt crank and a spring. And it would have, you know, a switch up high in the air. It wasn't like a one-piece flipper where you pick it up and screw it down on the plate field. Everybody else had one-piece flippers, and it's like they were low power. They were like 40 volts or something. Everybody else was using 50 volts, and I wanted that badly, And I didn't get it until after Black Knight, the first Black Knight, 1980. Then we started getting, you know, 50 volts, a new system. And then they started, you know, refining all the systems. I hate to be talking about this, but probably nobody else talks about it. You know, Pat Waller could. Some other older guys, they could talk about it. Standout games for me, you know, high speed was a monster. We sold like, I don't know, close to 16,000.
    34:33
    One guy called me five years later, I think in 1985. Now, 90, 1990, called me up and he goes, you know, I have two high speeds out on location, and they have made me $50,000.
    34:50
    And then he said each. Wow. Each game had made him $50,000 in five years. But that's when pinball was rocking. It was everywhere. I was in 7-Elevens. It was in arcades, bus depots, airports. So just everywhere. You know, it's like people were operating pinball machines. But that was phenomenal to me. You know, it's like, wow, just sort of, you know, you get $50,000. How many plays is that? You know, some places I think may have been, you know, three balls for 50 cents. that's probably what the price was. Anyway, okay, standout games. I like F-14 Tomcat because it's a weird game. It's fun, but it's weird. It's a beast. We created the, you know, the Gulf War, you know, basically that part of it. It played anchors away. It was patriotic, red, white, and blue. You know, if one rotating light on a game is good, then three must be better. and um i don't know i like that game i well love terminator terminator was so cool we got to go to light storm studios and sit with jim cameron yeah we called him jim he called me steve he wouldn't probably remember me now but we spent three hours with him talking about what we could do you know with with terminator 2 judgment day and on the last day we got to read the script And we had to sign non-disclosure agreements. And we just knew it was going to be a rocking movie. And it was. It was huge. Anyway, we were very motivated. We did as many things. You know, he had some game ideas, too.
    36:36
    I had mine. And it's like I wanted that cannon in there. I just wanted that because it was like a fun thing, just a really fun thing. I had wanted to make a cannon since I was at Atari.
    36:48
    Anyway. other ones Star Trek The Next Generation was a monster it's like it's the last five digit game anywhere in the world it all died after Popeye came out we had contracts with the distributors and it's like when Popeye came out they were pissed at us, they had to pay, they had to buy so many of them that our whole distributorship you know structure changed and i don't know pinball went downhill from there for a while so we can blame popeye for the downfall of that area of pinball well it didn't make very many people happy that's the bottom line it just didn't sell well i don't want to you know i'm not going to dump it all on on popeye but it had a lot to do with it it's just like let the wind out of the sales, like when you're doing roller games and it's on TV and, you know, three months before you're done, it's ripped off the air. It's a piece of garbage. Nobody likes it, but you've got to make the game anyway. Hey, my friend still has the roller games. I'm not ashamed of it. It plays good. It's fun. Yeah, it's a fun game.
    38:05
    Don't flip! Go for the wall! The violators. It was fun. Is there any of those games where you were through the designing process and it got ripped from you and so you had to change the theme itself? I mean, in the case of Roller Games, we just made the game exactly like we were going to. We used the voices and the team names and all that. That didn't change it at all. To change the whole theme of the game, at one time, for a very short period, maybe three weeks, I was going to call Star Trek The Next Generation. Under Siege. Remember that movie? Oh, yeah. The battleship movie. Anyway, you know, we were looking at it, but Next Gen is like one of my all-time favorite shows. I have every episode, of course, and it's like I don't know. Next Gen is a better theme. Oh, yeah, much better, no doubt. Plus that game, there'll never be another one like that where they give you the whole cast and you can ask them to say anything you want them to say, and they did.
    39:15
    Thank you, Mr. Geiger. You know what I mean? It's just so much cool stuff. We wrote scripts to go back and forth and then get their actual voices At one point Patrick Stewart recorded you know I screwed up space the final frontier These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. And I screwed it up. I don't know how I did. And he recorded, oh, a grave error, a grave error. I didn't say it right. So, you know, he did it right.
    39:50
    he was a character he was great and he also I mean we changed our script from the words he used because they were absolutely correct I mean you know that's how he spoke about operations on a ship and it was like the only one that wasn't helpful was what's his name number one Riker he didn't want to play the game he just thought you know he's kind of we don't have time for your games Q You know, it's like they had no, he didn't really want to do it.
    40:25
    One of my favorite game call-outs is your Spider-Man game. And I can't sell the Spider-Man game because the call-outs are so great with J.K. Simons. Yeah, he's great. I coached him. I really did. It shows. Yeah, I mean, I didn't, you know, we would say, how about with a little more energy? But it was always him. you know i mean he he did a great job what was your what's been your favorite stern game to work on my favorite stern game star trek bam there i said it wow well they were they were very reasonable the first star trek game started out with us going to paramount and there were three ladies running the licensing and we were talking to them about many things and we met all these people that worked on the show, and you know their names. They're always in the credits. I can't remember them now, but, you know.
    41:26
    Well, the artist guy, the older guy that's a sculptor for all the faces and everything, Westmore, that's his name, his last name. Now his son does it. Anyway, the lady said, okay, that's all well and good, but we don't want you to use no phasers and no photon torpedoes. Why? I was like, because they thought it was too violent. And I go, I can't make, I can't turn Next Generation into a namby-pamby game. I can't do that. These are expected. Well, I'm sorry, that's it. And we got up and got on the plane and went back to Chicago.
    42:04
    And Roger Sharp did his best to save it. He said, what can we do to salvage this? They said, come back and I'll introduce you to someone. So they did. We walked in and there was this lady there named Susie Dominick, and she got us everything, everything you could imagine. Just amazing. And that's why one reason is because of her. She let us have everything that we wanted. And it was an awesome situation from then on. Maybe one of the best ones. I mean, with James Cameron, we had good exchanges. Like they send us the chip from Terminator 2, the arm for a while, and a glass thing, you know. I mean, skulls, all kinds of stuff. And we got to keep them for a while and then send them back. We also got dailies. Every single day shot would come in the mail the next morning. Okay, so we knew how the movie was looking. I could, you know, the artwork. You know, we just knew what we had to do. You know, it was just a great licensing opportunity. The ACDC was also because they just went, just don't show Bon Scott. Okay. That's the only rule. You can do anything else you want. Really? And they handed me this hard drive. I still have it. Just full of ACDC through the years, photographs, incredible stuff, logos, all kinds of things. You know, it's just, that was a great, that was a great opportunity also. I mean, they were just good to us. They trusted us. We made a popular pinball machine, and, you know, you got to have trust. Some movie guys, they think, well, I make movies, so I must be able to make a pinball machine. No, that's not true.
    43:52
    You know, everybody has their specialty, and if you don't realize that or recognize that, I don't tell them how to make movies, but, you know, they always try to tell us how to make a pinball machine, except for the people that I just explained. Is there any famous people you've rubbed shoulders with that kind of shocked you that was big pinball fans? Oh, yeah. I'll tell you what. Carl Urban is a big pinball fan. We got his speech for Star Trek, the last one here at Stern, because I coached him also for the speech. And he goes, I know who you are, Mr. Ritchie. I have five of your games here. I'm sitting here looking at them. Oh, wow. We gave him, you know, an L.E. Star Trek. And so, you know, my mind was blown. And it's like, yeah, very interesting.
    44:40
    Ed Robertson of the Barenaked Ladies, he's also a big fan of pinball. He has my games. And, you know, he's got George's games. He's got a lot of our games, no doubt. But it's like, you know, when he comes to town, he gets his tickets. One time at a big show in Chicago, he said, I just want to tell you folks, okay, we got some people here from pinball. I love pinball. I own a bunch of pinballs. And I'd like to point out that some people that are here, some of my favorite people in pinball, Steve Ritchie, George Gomez, and Lyman Sheets. You know, it's just amazing. You know, okay. I don't know. 40,000 people there. Is there ever been a time that someone bet you couldn't put something into a pinball machine design-wise? Like they're like, I bet you can't do this, and you pulled it off successfully? Yeah, actually, that just happened to me. But I can't go into it. Let's see. You said this. Led Zeppelin has been many people's dream title, including Jeff Taylor's. How does it feel that you've got to design such an icon? I begged for it. And I'll tell you what. Their management was, they didn't, you don't get anything from them. Okay. I mean, it's really hard to get a license from Led Zeppelin's management, myth gem. But they kept talking about it and talking about it, and finally they gave in. and I'm happy that it worked out that way. I was going to say, do you know how they received it after it was made and whatnot, how their feelings are about the pinball machine? I have no idea whatsoever, none. I'm pretty sure each one of the members of the band got a game. I mean, let's usually do that. I have not heard one word.
    46:24
    Okay, I'll tell you some things. Jimmy Page doesn't even have a computer. he does not use internet okay i believe that everything is snail mail you know it's like you know it's not kept up with the times at all so it's like it's he was he was pretty easy uh there uh there is a set list and so the thing i like about led zeppelin is it goes from one song to another it also continually plays the song when your ball drains and so it doesn't feel abrupt that's right we love it too it's like it was the magic that this this music games need to do that exactly like it is and that's the first one that did that as far as i know i have not played a guns and roses but i don't think it works like ours yeah i i like a couple things one if you change the song accidentally because usually you're flipping flippers at the end yeah and you go back to it it picks up exactly where you where you flipped away from it i like that yeah and I like that it goes from one song to another. And so there's basically a set list. So I play the immigrant song that goes into Kashmir. That's my favorite. Yeah. Who designed the set list? And was it intentional? Because it's interesting because each song goes from like an up-tempo to a slower song to an up-tempo song.
    47:55
    I did. And it's not that, I mean, Tim made this stuff happen. I want to make that clear. But I drew all the songs basically in the order that I like them. I didn't get to pick the last two at the bottom. They were picked by other people, and there are other songs I would have taken, like Heartbreaker.
    48:16
    Such a rocking song. Did you get a lot of people that wondered why Stairway to Heaven was not in the game? Yeah, a lot of people wondered. But it's like it was just I'm not going to go into it here. I'll just say that the cost was definitely out of our range. That's the first thing. The second thing is the reason why I didn't care. It's not a good rock and pinball song. It takes forever to get going. Right. The third reason is it is the most overplayed Led Zeppelin song. I mean, it's just. The song I would have put in, but it's just one of my favorites, is Going to California. but I don't know if that would be a good pinball song either. It's okay. It's got, you know, it's sing-songy. I know the songs. Okay, I'll tell you what. My wife sent me albums in 1969 and 70 when I was in Vietnam, and I had a stereo system for the second six months that I was there. And so I know every single note or every single song they ever wrote or made or whatever. It's like, it is a good song. But it never, you know, it reminds me of the Immigrant Song. Not Immigrant, I'm sorry. Ramble On. Ramble On has a nice little melodic tune. In fact, I like that while I'm playing pinball because I know it's going to be screaming pretty soon. It's just, yeah, it has really good breaks. Going to California is sort of kind of one level to my memory. It is. But I like it. And, you know, there are ways you can get your game to play it. Oh, it's fine. I like your set list the way it is. It looks like a mushroom cloud on the apron, though. Yeah, I know. I know what you mean. Yeah, it does that. But it's really about the songs and the order they're in. It's like I wanted that order.
    50:09
    Okay, Josh, do you have one last question for him? You know, we've covered this list pretty well. I can't think of anything else. I'm just glad you're still doing this Steve it's awesome to see your influence upon pinball that's just helped drive the direction of flow and stuff for the past 20, 30, 40 years I'm still happy to be doing it I still love doing it, I really do if I didn't love it I wouldn't do it and I just my kids are grown up and gone we have this pandemic it's like all I do is work on pinball but it's pretty cool because I get to work on pinball. Well, we are planning on coming up for Expo, so hopefully we'll be able to hang out and get a burger with you. Hey, no problem. It sounds like fun. It was great to be here. I thank you very much for inviting me. Hey, thanks, Steve. We appreciate it. If you'd like to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. You can contact us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, at LoserKidPinball. If you've enjoyed the show, hit us up. We always appreciate those that have messaged us. We thank the community for listening and having some fun with us today. Also, we want to do a shout-out to Martin Robbins. Congratulations, our newest code designer in the industry with Fathom 2.0. I can't wait to see this magic. I'm excited for Haggis. You guys are doing awesome down there. Congratulations, and good luck with that production. Thanks again for tuning in, and we hope to see you in a couple of weeks. Shut up and sit down.
    52:16
    .