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Ep 87 - Weather, Traffic, and Food Trucks

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·42m 34s·held·Jan 14, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

SWL 87: Dialed In!! collector news, Stranger Things CES projector criticism, clear coat dimpling issues, Deep Root Pinball plans.

Summary

Ken Crone and Bill Webb discuss Episode 87 of Special When Lit, covering Bill's acquisition of Dialed In!! (Limited Edition), the Stranger Things projector display controversy at CES, widespread clear coat dimpling issues across modern Stern games, Deep Root Pinball outreach to TPF attendees, Jersey Jack's candy codes in Willy Wonka, and their decision to provide live Twitch coverage of Texas Pinball Festival instead of attending in person due to scheduling and financial constraints.

Key Claims

  • Bill Webb acquired a Dialed In! (Collectors Edition) and prices have come down to reasonable levels

    high confidence · Bill Webb directly stated he has a Dialed In!! (Limited Edition) coming in and mentioned prices have come down

  • Stranger Things (Premium/LE) with projector was displayed at CES under poor lighting conditions that did not showcase the feature well

    high confidence · Craig Bobby (Stern correspondent) reported Stranger Things was displayed at CES; Ken and Bill discussed how projector didn't perform well under CES lighting

  • Stranger Things exhibits clear coat dimpling issues after very few plays

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reported owners posted photos of clear coat dimpling on Stranger Things playfields; Ken confirmed his machine shows heavy dimpling after only 4 games

  • The Demogorgon ball ramp on Stranger Things causes rogue air balls that lead to dimpling

    high confidence · Craig Bobby stated the wide Demogorgon ramp is a boon for rogue air balls which causes dimpling over time

  • Jersey Jack is rumored to be announcing their next title very soon and potentially two games in 2020

    medium confidence · Bill stated next JJP announcement 'could occur pretty much any time now' and referenced Jack talking about revealing two games in a year

  • Pirates of the Caribbean prices remain high and may stay high; potential for another production run is uncertain

    medium confidence · Bill Webb stated Pirates prices are high and may always be high, with talks of maybe having another run but nothing in immediate future

  • Deep Root is covering travel and accommodation expenses for Zidware claimants attending TPF

    high confidence · Chris Chandler reported Deep Root offering to pick up travel expenses for ex-Zidware claimants with VIP room invitations

  • Ken and Bill are unable to attend Texas Pinball Festival 2020 in person due to financial and childcare constraints

    high confidence · Ken stated it would cost $1,500-$2,000 for the trip; Bill cited childcare as a major barrier with his newborn son and 4-year-old daughter

Notable Quotes

  • “it's a really good game man and i think it's cool... you have the le right yeah Ellie's coming in yeah I had the Ellie also it's just a solid shooter”

    Bill Webb @ early segment — Bill's endorsement of Dialed In despite previous themes concerns; signals market shift toward game mechanics over IP

  • “the audio package in the call outs and in the music... it was like experiencing a nice summer day but with like cloudy skies like you never felt energized you never felt like everything was was happening in an exciting type fashion”

    Bill Webb @ early segment — Detailed critique of Dialed In's audio design as reserved and unenergetic

  • “Could there be trouble in the upside down? Yes, some new owners and players of Stranger Things have also posted photos online of dreaded clear coat dimpling that seems to be occurring on this new title after only very few plays.”

    Craig Bobby @ news segment — Official Stern correspondent documenting widespread quality concerns with flagship new title

  • “what's worse, a cheesy-looking tent over a game or a game that looks like it's not performing?”

    Ken Crone @ CES discussion — Direct criticism of Stern's decision not to optimize lighting conditions for Stranger Things at CES

  • “it's not the ghosting inserts. it's not a deal breaker. Oh, yes. Exactly. I mean, does it suck? Yeah, kind of. But you know, I mean... I'm going to live with the dimpling”

    Ken Crone @ dimpling discussion — Collector acceptance of quality issues as cost of playing modern games; signals market tolerance threshold

  • “Robert said, you know what? He understood... if there was anything that he could do that could kind of help us to come down to let him know he was expressing... we want you guys to be a part of it.”

    Ken Crone @ Deep Root discussion — Praise for Deep Root's customer relations and proactive outreach to media partners

  • “I'm not going to shill Deep Root because they've not shown me anything that I am over the moon about yet, but I'm still eagerly anticipating the launch... I'm going to keep a mindful eye out to make sure that I hold them accountable”

Entities

Ken CronepersonBill WebbpersonCraig BobbypersonChris ChandlerpersonKen RudbergpersonRobert MuellerpersonBrian CosnerpersonKevin MannepersonDwight Sullivanperson[name withheld pending review]person

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: Widespread clear coat dimpling reported across multiple Stern games (Stranger Things, Elvira, Munsters, Jurassic Park) after minimal play. Demogorgon ramp on Stranger Things creates rogue air balls contributing to dimpling acceleration.

    high · Craig Bobby documented owner complaints with photos; Ken confirmed his machine shows heavy dimpling after only 4 games of play; dimpling described as affecting both aesthetics and playfield texture

  • $

    market_signal: Dialed In pricing has declined to levels collectors consider reasonable, signaling market correction or increased supply. Pirates of the Caribbean maintains elevated secondary market prices despite potentially being out of production.

    medium · Bill Webb stated Dialed In prices 'have come down dude where i don't think they're unreasonable for what you're getting'; Pirates prices described as 'high' and 'may always be high'

  • ?

    event_signal: Stern's decision to display Stranger Things Premium LE at CES without optimized lighting conditions was widely perceived as a missed opportunity. The projector feature, central to the premium tier, was poorly visible under bright trade show lighting.

    high · Ken and Bill extensively discussed CES lighting failure; Ken questioned why Stern didn't use tents to control lighting like other vendors do at pinball shows; Ken stated this was 'pretty impactful' decision that negatively affected perception

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Dialed In recognized as having excellent shooter mechanics and rule depth despite middling theme reception. Described as 'really good game' and 'solid shooter' that can compete favorably against other contemporary shooters.

    medium · Bill Webb praised Dialed In's gameplay despite dismissing the theme as uninspiring; described as 'you're not going to find hardly a better shooter in my opinion'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.128

0:00
coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on pinball land welcome it's episode 87 of the special when lit pinball podcast and i'm ken cromwell and i am bill webb so it's 87 87 episodes bill if you think back when we started in July of 2018, right? We've not missed a week in over a year and a half. So how does it feel? Good. That's good. I'm good. We got the streak, the Cal Ripken streak of podcasts going right now. What's happening with you, man? Anything good? Not too much, but I mean, I got another game coming in. I don't know if I talked about that last week. I kind of forgot now. What do you have coming in? I dialed in. Dialed in. Now, was that on your list of games that you said, uh now i'm done except for dial was dialed in on there because i know it was kind of always well not always see it's never any less it wasn't always on there right right but you know with the amount of crap people have been talking about it lately i was like you know what man let me give this a shot it's a really good game man and i think it's cool i mean you had one for a little while but i didn't get a lot of time on it and the prices have come down dude where i don't think they're unreasonable for what you're getting it's a great game you have the le right yeah Ellie's coming in yeah I had the Ellie also it's just a solid shooter if it wasn't for the theme being dialed in it would have lasted a lot longer it's just the it's you're not going to find hardly a better shooter in my opinion the rules are super fun you know the other thing that I didn't particularly care for on that was the uh like call outs and audio was a little bit kind of and I'm trying to think of the best way to put it it was like experiencing a nice summer day but with like cloudy skies like you never felt energized you never felt like everything was happening in an exciting type fashion it was a little bit kind of reserved and i don't want to say drab but it just never really called to me it was very reserved in its audio package in the call outs and in the music i think yeah but you know what though and maybe that's cased but you know what i want to give it a shot anyway and dude honestly after i get this one there's only one other jersey jack that i haven't had at that point yeah is that uh pirates yeah the uh the highly coveted and hard to obtain pirates of the caribbean do you think you will have a pirates at one point because i mean i think i will and all i think you will too and i just to think back i the only two games now that i have you that i've heard you mention that you have yet to acquire is uh is ripley's believe it or not right is one of them and then aerosmith i know is a game that you were uh kicking around with i mean aerosmith's a big gunner i'm kidding it's just what does that even mean i'm meaning like you know i meaning it was an exclusive uh show pony oh it's just every time there's one close by something's going on and i can't get one um but i will at some point so yeah i think uh here's a real question will i have pirates before i have the next rumor jjp title I would imagine, yes. I think right now Pirates prices are high, and they may always be high. There's talks of maybe having another run of Pirates, but I don't know, when we talked to Jack, it didn't sound like that was anything that was in the immediate future. And with their next release around the corner, it seems, and then the next rumored release maybe being Toy Story, I don't know where you have time to put Pirates back on the line if they're going to try to get two games out in 2020. Again, I don't even know if that's still something that they want to do. So I know Jack talked last year about them revealing two games in a year. Yeah. And it would have to be this year. So if you have the rumored Guns N' Roses coming out the first quarter, you could still reveal something around expo time.

Ken Crone @ Deep Root discussion — Balanced approach to covering upcoming Deep Root launch; maintaining journalistic skepticism despite appreciation

  • “Dude, me doing a playfield swap on it and throwing on, you know, 13 layers of clear coat on that sucker.”

    Ken Crone @ dimpling discussion — Long-term collector perspective on playfield restoration as standard maintenance

  • “The rumor on the street is they're going to be streaming the game, the premium LE model, this week from Stern Pinball.”

    Ken Crone @ Stranger Things discussion — Anticipation for Stern's streaming of Stranger Things Premium LE to address CES lighting concerns

  • “for me to go down on a Tuesday evening... you're probably looking at a 1500 to $2,000 pinball trip. Easy.”

    Ken Crone @ TPF discussion — Concrete cost barrier preventing media coverage of major industry event

    • Special When Lit
    organization
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Deep Root Pinballcompany
    Stranger Things Premiumgame
    [name withheld pending review]game
    Willy Wonkagame
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    CESevent
    St. Charles Pinball Cluborganization
    Zidwarecompany
    Buffalo Pinball Teamorganization
    Logan's Arcadevenue
  • ?

    community_signal: Established collectors demonstrating acceptance of quality issues (dimpling, clear coat problems) as inevitable cost of modern pinball ownership. Sentiment shift from early concern to pragmatic resignation.

    high · Ken stated 'I've learned to live with dimpling. Dimpling happens, man'; Bill 'As long as the paint doesn't start chipping, I could care less'; Ken willing to do playfield swaps as normal maintenance

  • ?

    business_signal: Deep Root Pinball demonstrating proactive customer service by offering travel/accommodation assistance to unattended media partners and Zidware claimants. Positioning as customer-focused emerging manufacturer.

    high · Robert Mueller offered to help Ken and Bill attend TPF; Deep Root covering travel expenses and VIP access for Zidware claimants; Ken described approach as 'humbling' and 'impressive'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Jersey Jack Pinball next title announcement imminent (within weeks/months). Speculation about whether JJP can deliver two game releases in 2020 as previously discussed by company leadership.

    medium · Ken Rudberg stated 'next title announcement, which could occur pretty much any time now'; Bill referenced Jack's prior commitment to 'revealing two games in a year'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Special When Lit shifting to remote coverage model for Texas Pinball Festival using live Twitch streaming with correspondent call-ins as substitute for in-person attendance. Signals growing importance of streaming as distribution channel.

    high · Ken announced plans to 'fire up the special inlet streaming channel and we are going to do live coverage of texas pinball festival' with correspondent call-ins

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern Pinball planning specialized streaming demonstration of Stranger Things Premium LE to address CES perception issues. Streaming positioned as critical to converting skeptics on projector feature.

    medium · Ken stated 'rumor on the street is they're going to be streaming the game, the premium LE model, this week from Stern Pinball'; Ken described stream as 'pivotal' for success of premium LE model

  • ?

    technology_signal: Jersey Jack's Willy Wonka continues generating community engagement through discovery of hidden candy codes. Kevin Manny's GameFAQs resource demonstrates active community documentation and knowledge sharing.

    high · Ken Rudberg reported owners 'continue to find and discover new candy codes for Willy Wonka'; Kevin Manny compiled comprehensive list at gamefaqs.gamespot.com with detailed instructions

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Positive sentiment shift toward Deep Root based on customer service and Zidware settlement handling. Ken explicitly backing company despite reservations about product quality/features not yet demonstrated.

    medium · Ken stated 'I'm in their corner. I do want them to be successful' and 'I really, really appreciated that more than Robert and Deeper probably would ever know' regarding customer outreach

  • ?

    operational_signal: Texas Pinball Festival attendance cost ($1,500-$2,000 for a week) presents significant barrier for media coverage. Combined with childcare constraints, limiting media presence at major industry events.

    high · Ken calculated trip cost at '1500 to $2,000 pinball trip. Easy'; Bill cited newborn and 4-year-old daughter as childcare obstacle; both decided against attending before Deep Root's outreach offer

    • 3:48
    But then do you undercut the sales? And that's all going to come back to the manufacturing, right? You've got to get the game out the door when you release it. You can't putz around. You can't wait. You've just got to get it out. Well, dude, if they're on the line, let's just throw crap on a wall here and see what sticks for a second. if they are like gearing up and have everything in in-house to start production and started production a little sooner than you know normal and they were able to get out 100 or 200 games on the street you know on day of launch right i mean i could see that by the six month mark i mean you're still gonna be pushing that game but i could see you kind of jumping in and out to fill orders here and there for pirates or getting ready for the next rumor title how do you think it worked out for Stern to reveal the game and then have it already sitting at distributors and ready to go on location in the same day? I mean, do you think that that worked to their benefit with the release of Stranger Things? Yes and no. I think it did to get games out into the public and have them being played by Christmas Eve. Sure, yeah. I don't know if there was... That's right, it was Christmas Eve, right? Yeah, that was their goal. They wanted Christmas Eve. That's pretty crazy. I would have liked to have seen some of the premiums come out with that significant of a feature. Well, yeah, so the LEs would come out before the premiums, but that premium LE model you'd like to see that projector rocking at some point. On those couple games that went out, I mean, dude, it couldn't have been more than, what, 50 or 60? If that. I mean, I'm sure it would have run even smaller than that. I don't know. I would have thrown half premiums and half pros in that mix. Well, I do want to talk to you about the projector, and we'll do that as we get caught up on the news. You ready? Yeah, let's do it. Getting the news from around the industry in this week's Industry Buzz.
    5:34
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. Things are very quiet in the Jersey Jack camp right now. There's a lot of anticipation for the next title announcement, which could occur pretty much any time now. In Willy Wonka news, owners continue to find and discover new candy codes for Willy Wonka that allow you to enter codes and have different displays and game modes, including reversed flippers and other things. There is actually a listing of all of the candy codes and how to enter them. It's available at gamefaqs.gamespot.com. This is put together by Kevin Manny of the Buffalo Pinball Team, and it has a detailed list of all the codes and how to enter them. So if you're interested in doing that with your Willy Wonka, that's a great place to go. We'll look forward to hearing about the next Jersey Jack title in hopefully the next month or so. This has been Ken Rudberg with your special win-lit Jersey Jack update. Chris Chandler here, bringing you the latest in the world of Deep Root. Emails trickled in for those who applied for credentials to attend the Deep Root Pinball launch. The emails were light on details, simply stating that the request to attend was granted, and to stay tuned for a follow-up email in February with more details. Ex-Zidware claimants, who chose to take the Deep Root pins as part of their settlement, received invitations to the VIP room at TPF, including Deep Root offering to pick up any travel expenses to get them there. I guess that means we'll see a few more folks at TPF in March. As more details emerge on the launch and VIP room, we'll make sure to pass them on. Reporting for Deep Root for Special When Lit, this is Chris Chandler. Stranger Things wows at CES, and oh, those pesky playfield codings. Hey guys, Craig here again, your Special When Lit Stern News correspondent. Well, a big week for pinball as Stern wowed the consumer world at CES in Las Vegas, where Stranger Things Premium was on full public display. the projector feature, the 11 telekinetic ball lock, and all. And while Stranger Things was generally well received by both public and press alike, many early buyers and enthusiasts are still eager to view the premium and LE versions streamed in a home lighting environment to see if these new innovative features truly live up to the hype. But hold on, all you stern true believers. Could there be trouble in the upside down? Yes, some new owners and players of Stranger Things have also posted photos online of dreaded clear coat dimpling that seems to be occurring on this new title after only very few plays. Boo! Many have observed that the impressively wide Demogorgon ball ramp is a boon for rogue air balls, which over time leaves an unsightly number of these dimples scattered randomly over the playfield, marring its beautiful, shiny clear coat. And while this dimpling seems to only be an aesthetic issue for now, it is leaving many to further speculate on what steps, if any, Stern and other manufacturers are taking to officially address this and other clear coat issues that have been plaguing them and their loyal customers for months. We can only hope that 2020 is the year that Stern and other manufacturers take this clear coat bull by the horns and finally solve this pesky issue once and for all. We shall wait and see. That's all for this week. For Special When Lit, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side. So our correspondent, Craig Bobby, he's covering Stern Pinball for us. He's talking about stranger things as we were before we went to the news break. Making its appearance at CES.
    9:10
    That's the Consumer Electronics Show. The Collusion Electronics Show. That's awesome. That's the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas right now. And that version, that premium LE version with the projector, is being displayed or was being displayed at CES. And it's interesting because when you kind of hear the feedback, it didn't show very well under the lighting conditions of CES. And I think that worked to the disadvantage of Stern Pinball. The reason being, everybody that has questions about how this projector is going to actually work, they're looking for any reason to decide that they're in on that projector or they're out on that projector and with that being kind of the first public showing under extreme lighting conditions at ces i don't think that that helped to sway people into the i'm gonna buy this because of the projector camp now did it ultimately make people believe that it just wasn't worth the investment i'm sure it did just like anything else i don't think so man no i mean i'm well i I mean, numbers-wise, somebody saw that and said, no, that's not going to work. Now, is that the majority? I don't think so. No, dude. If you're in on that game, you're in on that game. It doesn't matter. Oh, I disagree. I think that does matter. I mean, that's – and the reason I'm saying that is because that's why – I don't know if I'm in on a premium LE model. I wouldn't get an LE, but a premium. I want to see the projector under the conditions in which I will be playing the game. Exactly. Right, not at CES. Yes. That why I think CES didn matter Okay In all honesty You know does it matter if the lighting conditions are horrible I don think it was the best showing But I mean I think there could have been bigger things wrong Right. I think there's other things that would hold that game back before the projector. Here, I mean, most people are going to be playing it in a situation like this. Logan's Arcade is not a well-lit. Right. So we're in our studio now, and it's a very dimly lit room. So it should perform excellent under the lighting conditions here. Yeah, I don't think – if people are in on it, I think they're going to buy it regardless. Can I ask you this? Do you have any idea – and this is with all respect to everybody at Stern Pinball, but if you're going to bring that to CES, I'm curious of why there was not an effort to kind of block some of that lighting hitting the machine. Like when you go to the different pinball shows and you see some of the vendors, They have got tents that kind of cover the games to highlight their products and their lighting. Scott at Penn Stadium. Scott at Penn Stadium does this. Even the mod companies come in, and if they're in a well-lit area, they have a way to kind of black out the area around so you can see the mods. At CES, would it have been advantageous for somebody to run and pick up some type of a pop tent and throw that over a game? Yeah, but I don't see them doing that. Why? They would look cheap and cheesy, dude. If Stern was going to bring a tent, dude, they'd have a black tent saying Stern. and all things grand. Well, then maybe they need to get some tents made. Because what's worse, a cheesy-looking tent over a game or a game that looks like it's not performing? Cheesy under a bad light? Yeah. Dude, that's not how TPF would be, though. TPF would be dark, right? Ah, TPF? No, I don't think so. TPF wasn't super bright.
    12:10
    It wasn't super bright, but we definitely saw efforts to tent off games. I mean, and if you're going to cite Penn Stadium as that, that's just part of their kind of booth setup. Yeah, but, dude, there were parts of TPF that were dark. I think it would be fine at TPF.
    12:27
    Pinball Expo in Chicago, that might be a different story. I just don't understand why. I don't know. And again, I don't work for these pinball companies. I've got a lot of respect for all the companies, but I just question some of the decision-making when it comes down to not putting the game its best foot forward, put it in its best condition to perform. That was, in my opinion, a pretty impactful thing to be able to bring that to CES. And I just don't know. I just don't get it. I don't know that I'll ever get the answers. But do they have to? Well, at some point, you're going to have to. Yes, at some point. You know what I mean? But, dude, Batman 66 had, like, no code the day they showed it. Right. And it was very light on code for a long time, and that did all right in the final run of it. Well, and this game didn't launch with a high code number, but it's got a lot of code on it. And we're at .81, I think, right now. And, I don't know, just not to harp on it, it's like you mentioned, did they really need to? I don't know, man, because I think maybe they really do need to at this point on this particular game because that piece of tech is so. I know it's an integral part of the game. It is. It is a mech. It's a feature. I get that part. Right. I just do it for the people that we know. They're going to go find one and play it in similar conditions in which they're going to do this with. Right. So it's not going to matter. So what happens? So the rumor on the street is they're going to be streaming the game, the premium LE model, this week from Stern Pinball. So I'm imagining that they're going to put forth all the effort that they can to kind of showcase this game in the best light that they can. Because a part of me really wants to get the game so that I can stream it because I've got some crazy ideas on how I feel that I would approach displaying the game and showing off its best assets. And I can only imagine that there are those at Stern that are surpassing what thoughts I may have. But that's why I think that this stream is going to be super important because there's going to be people that are not going to see it under controlled lighting conditions. And they're going to have to decide if they're staying in on their LE purchase or if they're going in on that premium purchase. It's a pivotal stream for the success of the premium LE model, in my opinion, for those that are into streams. because I think the majority of the public doesn't even know that there is pinball streaming. So they're just going to go somewhere and they're going to buy something based on the advice of a game room dealer. But for those that are in the pinball community, I think it's a pivotal point. Yeah, but what do you think is going to turn people off more? Some of the dimpling issues that have been going on in that game or the projector issues? The projector issues. I've learned to live with dimpling. Dimpling happens, man. It just does. You heard it here first. Ken's going to live with the dimpling. I'm going to live with the dimpling because all these games dimple. It's not like the game took a week for it to show the dimples that are on my machine. It took like four games to make it look like that play field was really taking some impacts. And in my beginning of my collecting days, something like that would really irk me. Now, I absolutely encourage the manufacturers to try to figure out the play field situation because I do not think that dimpling should happen to that extreme personally. But again, I'm not a chemist. I don't know what's going on with clear coats. I don't know what's going on with wood and density and that sort of thing. I can just kind of go by what I'm seeing. And this game is prone to some heavy dimpling. But it's got, dude, it's set up for that. You know, the Munsters I had had some dimpling. Jurassic Park that I have has some dimpling. I'm going to play it. Every other Jurassic Park that's been opened up and played is going to have it. I just don't care. I'm not going to let it sit there in a box and be like, oh, I'm too scared to play it. Oh, no, me neither. As long as the paint doesn't start chipping, I could care less. Right. And I think a lot of it has to do with – I have to jump in here because somebody is going to come back and say, well, Bill doesn't care. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's not that I don't care. It's that, you know what, this is where we're at, and I'm willing to accept it to play the titles that I want to play. Yeah, no, agreed. Like I'm not supportive of not addressing these issues and trying to make them better, but I've accepted it as part of the experience in which I will have to go through if I'm going to buy a new title. When I look at Stranger Things and I look at Elvira House of Horrors, to me it looks like Elvira House of Horrors is not dimpling as much as Stranger Things. Now, you know how the mind can play tricks on you, too. Is it because of the lighting and the GI and the art package, it being a little bit different with different colors, is showing me more like depth of these dimples versus what I'm seeing on Elvira? It could be. I don't know. But it's just aesthetically when you look down at the proper angle of noticing these dimples, it is a little bit shocking. It is. But you know what, though, dude? It's not the ghosting inserts. It's not a deal breaker. Oh, yes. Exactly. I mean, does it suck? Yeah, kind of. But, you know, I mean, here on my Jurassic Park that I bought, I wouldn't be surprised, dude, as long as it sticks around. Dude, me doing a playfield swap on it and throwing on, you know, 13 layers of clear coat on that sucker. Well, you have one of the original releases pros, right? Like the one that we originally streamed here. Okay, yeah. And you know what? That one, to the credit of that play field, it did have some pulling around some of the posts and whatnot, but it's not shipped or anything, right? No. Yeah. No. It could be because now it's at my godson's house. Yep. So we'll see. Yeah, that's crazy. I've got to go ahead and get the report on that. So Bill just takes his Jurassic Park Pro, probably the game of the year, and he's like, I'm going to throw it over to my godson's house. You're a nice uncle, man. Absolutely, man. Or a nice godfather, I should say. Nice godfather. No, he deserved it, man. He's been doing good. That's impressive. Yeah. And I'm not playing it right now. I still don't have time. Well, good. So, yeah, again, to clarify, these dimples are not something that I'm excited about. And I do not think that they're all going to level the play field out over 950 billion plays where I'm going to get an air ball in every single part of the play field. That makes no sense to me. But I think over time you will kind of see that become more of like an orange peel effect because of the amount of dimples. and it won't be as noticeable as seeing what some are describing them as, as craters in a sheet of ice. It's just they're noticeable now because they're more prominent because there's not as many there for comparison purposes. Anyhow, we go over to Chris Chandler, who's covering Deep Root for us. Now, Deep Root had sent out the media credentials to those that had applied and to those that they wanted to invite down to their media event on Wednesday prior to Texas Pinball Festival, and we did receive media credentials. It was the day after we aired our last episode, so coincidentally, I was wondering what was going on with that. And then we got the Deep Root email, and it was from Robert Mueller, and he said, hey, credentials are approved for both you and Bill Webb. You guys come down, and if there's anything that we can do, let us know. Now, since then – Well, dude, no, no, no, but, I mean, let's give a little back story here. Sure. I think literally before, you know, a couple hours before we got that or you got that email, we had both decided Texas is just not a great fit this year. Yes. And then you get that email and you're like, dude, go figure. Man, and it was one of those things. The reason Texas is not a fit for us this year, I mean, there's a lot of different reasons. I think a lot, I mean, and to be totally clear, uh, some of it is financial for me, at least. I mean, for me to go down on a Tuesday evening to be able to get to the deep root reveal on Wednesday morning and then stay through the twippies and fly out on Sunday, it's a six day trip, hotel airfare, um, incidentals. You're probably looking at a 1500 to $2,000 pinball trip. Easy. And that's that's that's a little bit tough now.
    19:59
    Considering all that, I without being very specific, I want to give credit to Robert and Deep Root when we thanked him for, you know, giving us credentials to come down, extending the invitation. We just let him know that it wasn't going to work out for us this year. And to his credit. And this made me feel good because, listen, I mean, arguably, are we pinball media? I guess so. Right. Like, do we consider ourselves professional reporters or anything like that? No. Are we respectful to those in the industry? Absolutely. We try. Do we cover things as fairly as we can? Yeah. Are we highly critical of things? We can be. But we have a different approach in how we express our thoughts on that. Respectful. Robert said, you know what? He understood. But if there was anything that he could do that could kind of help us to come down to let him know he was expressing, you know, in no way are we looking for favoritism by us trying to aid you in getting down the deep root. but it's a special day for us, and we want you guys to be a part of it. And, Bill, that made me feel like a million dollars that a pinball company, albeit up and coming, really took the time to figure out what our issues might have been and to try to help us come to a solution so that we could come down and take part in their company. Now all the pinball companies And I love that Yes they been very nice to us and they helped us when we were doing contests and fundraisers and things like that But for a company to kind of go out of their way to say hey listen it important for us that you there So if there's something that we can do to help out, please let us know. I thought it was a very humbling experience, and I really, really appreciated that more than Robert and Deeper probably would ever know. And I wanted to share that with everybody else. Because what they're doing right now, too, is they are going out of their way to make sure that the Zidware claims not only were fulfilled, but that they are getting these people down and VIP rooms or VIP access to Texas Pinball Festival. And I've also heard that they're helping with some travel expenses and room and board for these people that are coming down, which I think is incredible. And they don't have to do any of that. and I'm not going to shill Deep Root because they've not shown me anything that I am over the moon about yet, but I'm still eagerly anticipating the launch. I'm very disappointed that I can't be there. I've been vocal saying that I am in their corner. I do want them to be successful. Absolutely. That being said, I'm going to keep a mindful eye out to make sure that I hold them accountable for what they are telling the public that they are going to do. Long story short, I did want to thank Deep Root for that, And I do commend what they're doing as far as getting the Zidware customers whole. Well, as whole as they can be because that came from a situation that was – it was just nothing. You were doomed. You had nothing left. Pretty much. So we're not going to be able to make it down. And it's disappointing because we had such a great time at TPF last year, and it just kind of is what it is. But for me, it's child care. So unless we can get a child, you know, a sitter from the hours of 7 a.m. to or 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. at Bill's house, this is not going to fly. Well, yeah, it's a big commitment, man. It's a big commitment. Now, we do have some of our correspondents down there. I know Brian Cosner is going to be down there. And for those of you that know who Brian is or Cos, he covers American Pinball for us. But more importantly, at that reveal, we've got Chris Chandler, who is our Deep Root correspondent, who is going to be down there and covering the show. Now, what are we going to be doing during TPF this year? We'll talk about that in just a second. I did want to kind of round up with Ken Rutberg, who's covering Jersey Jack Pinball. And these candy codes keep popping up. And for those of you who are wondering, what's a candy code? It's a code in which you can enter into the pinball machine that unlocks certain elements of the gameplay that normally wouldn't be there. And they're kind of like Easter eggs, you know. For those of you that are Contra fans on the Nintendo Entertainment System, you know if you want those unlimited lives of 30, It's up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start. And you've got 30. B, A, B, A, start. Well, no, it's just B, A, start. But if you want two players, up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, select, start. Believe me, man, I was going to get this tattooed. Okay. I'm ahead. I know that. But, I mean, it's kind of interesting that you can kind of enter something, and it's a flipper code or whatever, and you can kind of unlock elements of the game. Kevin Manning from Buffalo is kind of putting together a one-stop shop for those codes, and I think that's a pretty cool thing to have cited, too. It's just a little bit extra that you can kind of look forward to with your game, something that you're not used to paying for, and it's just additive. So I haven't done that yet. You have to do it. I know. Dude, I've been slacking, but that's okay. We'll get on that. We need a Ken and Bill flipper code for JJP. Because if you're cool in pinball, you've got a flipper code, right? We're half cool. Yeah, we do have a flipper code in a couple games. Maybe quarter cool, but whatever, man. I consider it cool. I mean, Dwight Sullivan has flipper codes for us in Ghostbusters and in Munsters. No. Or no, Star Wars in Munsters. Yes. Not Ghostbusters. And Ghostbusters was just before our time for flipper codes. But Dwight's a buddy of ours. And the flipper code is just a picture of our St. Charles Pinball Club. But it's cool because you can go on location. And I did this with my son. I'm like, hey, check this out. And I was like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And boom, we come up. And it's awesome. For those of you that are into flipper codes, the code is 446. and that is the flipper code. If you don't know how to answer that or what that means, you can email the show. It's specialwinlet pinballpodcast at gmail.com. That's on Star Wars and Munsters. If they're still there, he might have taken them out. Maybe. They were there at one point. I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so either. But Dwight's a good guy. So yeah, so check out the candy coats. Anyhow, let's go back to visit. What are we going to be doing at TPF? Now, for those of you that have followed the show and you followed our pinball streams, Bill's been limited lately. He just had the birth of his son and he's got work and his wife's got work and they all they have a four-year-old daughter also at home so it's been kind of hectic so for us not to get down to tpf is one thing but we didn't want to just abandon the whole tpf experience yeah so what we're going to do is is we're going to fire up the special inlet streaming channel and we are going to do live coverage of texas pinball festival and i'd like to do uh some post coverage of the deep root seminar and we're essentially we're We're just going to have it like a news desk. We're looking for correspondents that want to call in to our live Twitch stream and give us updates on what they're seeing at TPF. You're like the boots on the ground. We've got a couple people that we already locked down, but the more the merrier because when people tune in on Twitch – because if you can't go to TPF, what you're going to end up doing is you're going to be on Facebook. And your whole feed is going to be filled with everybody that's at TPF. And you're going to feel sad, like I will feel sad and like you will feel sad. I am definitely already sad. I know I'm sad too. I'm thinking about the weather, dude. Yeah. Yeah, dude, just the good times. That's okay. We're going to make a good time out of this. We're going to give you a place to be sad in one place, and that's going to be a special and lit stream. The sad stream. Right. But let's just all talk about TPF. I want to get some Skype calls in where we can get some video going with people that are at TPF, some live video. I've got some interview requests in for some of the heavy hitters in pinball, so we hope to have that. But it's just going to be a live show, and I envision it going probably like maybe Friday, Saturday, Sunday or something. Two hours every day or something. Yeah, like two or three hours in the evening, and Bill will be able to get here for some of that streaming. But let's do that. If you would like to take part, if you're going to TPF and you know for a fact that you would be able to commit to something like that, again, email the show, specialwindlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com, or go to Facebook and just message us and say, hey, this is what I'd like to do. This is what I'm interested in. I'd like to kind of cover it. It's not a job, guys, so don't worry about that. But we want to be able to call you, and you can kind of give us a live update for like maybe five minutes each of those three days. One of the correspondents, though, their job will be to go outside and live stream what food trucks are there. Yes. And judge tacos. I like that, man. We'll have somebody outside covering weather and food. Yeah. Absolutely, man. Who can do that? And traffic. Walking across from the hotel. Yeah, traffic. Right. Traffic's a little light right now. All that construction is probably all done because we stayed at the Indigo across the street from the convention center last year. Which is right behind Country Inn or Courtyard? Courtyard. It was Courtyard because that's where Jason Fowler had his room. We ended up spending so much time in his courtyard outside of his hotel, probably more there than any other place, which I thought was pretty funny. I can't believe we didn't get kicked off that patio at 2 in the morning. But, hey, God bless. I know. Well, speaking of Jason Fowler, we'll come back to TPF in a second. For those of you that are following this Rick and Morty update, now, Dr. John, he's been busy. He's on the tournament scene this week, so he didn't submit anything for his update, which is totally fine, because, I mean, what can you really submit at this point? But if you want to get more information about the game, Jason had an excellent interview with Bo and Karen's. You can listen to that at Slap Save Pinball Podcast. The week prior to that, or two weeks prior to that, he had his interview with Scott Denisey. It's always good to hear from Jason and Matt, but Jason's kind of taking this interview thing, and he's doing it every other week, and he's doing an excellent job. So for those of you that kind of like a nice personable conversation with an excellent host and an excellent guest, I recommend this Lab State Pinball Podcast. Jason and Bowen, on that interview, you get some more information about Rick and Morty. Going back to TPF, yeah, so let's get somebody to cover weather and food and traffic outside. Absolutely, man. Get some people inside to have some fun. We need somebody to literally be outside of the Twippies recording, you know, all the celebrities walking up. Well, see, the Twippies. No, no, outside. Outside. Right. But we're going to do the tailgate party leading up to the Twippies. Now, the Twippies are going to be streamed live on Twitch. Okay? Yes. Now, what we're going to do is we're going to do the live tailgate party, and we're going to take everybody that's in chat prior to the Twippies, and we're just going to raid that Twippy channel. So we're going to transfer you all to that stream. So if you just want to hang out and have some fun prior to the Twippies, you're not going to be watching us during the Twippies because we're going to transfer you over to the Twippies. which we'll be watching as well but it's going to be fun we might even dress up that day maybe we rent some tux and wear them in studio c tuxedo t-shirt yeah right or i'll turn the heat up and you can pretend that it's uh nice out in here we got to get a palm tree for that dude if we do that it would be kind of nice but yeah so that's what we'll do we'll do the uh i'm down i'm down we did that tailgate stream uh for willie waka when that was revealed at mgc and that was ridiculous we had a ton of people come in so special when lit and if you want to know how to get to that you go to twitch.tv slash special when lit podcast it's all one word special when lit podcast search us on twitch now just click the heart the follow button doesn't cost you anything and every time we go live during the course of tpf and the twippies you'll get a little notification hey special when let's go on live they're covering twippies right now and you can just kind of chime in and see what's going on in uh in real time yeah be a good time i wanted to start a uh Well, this is how this happened. I had an idea in my head about a couple different pinball machines, and I thought to myself, what if we did this, and what if this had happened? And I had this kind of surreal moment, and I'm not really explaining this to you too well, but when I put in the show notes, what if? Did you have anything that had come to mind, like what if this would have happened in pinball, or something that hasn't already happened or something that could have happened that didn't? I have one in my head. did you want to go first or do you want me to go first i'll let you go first i'll go this is your baby so this is what well it's you know this is what my idea was so stranger things is here i've been playing the heck out of stranger things prior to that it was elvira's house of horrors i've been playing the heck out of that i'm playing more stranger things now because it's new uh and it's something that like i'm just craving to play that being said i went back this weekend and i jumped down house of horrors and had an excellent time two really good releases in my opinion from Stern But I thought this I looked at the layouts and I looked at Elvira House of Horrors and I looked at Stranger Things And I thought to myself what if you kept the same layouts but you traded the theme So the Stranger Things theme would end up on Elvira's House of Horrors, and the Elvira's House of Horrors theme would have switched over to Stranger Things. and I almost thought that it made sense because you've got Elvira's House of Horrors that would then be able to take advantage of the projection technology to kind of show the movies and stuff on that big screen the video clips that would have been cool and then if you switch Stranger Things over to Elvira's House of Horrors you've got that big house in the middle could it could have been the house where Will lived uh you know there and that could have had color changing effects when he went into the upside down you've got the little crypt area there that that could have been Will's hideout in the woods which would have been kind of cool or maybe the entrance way to the lab i just wonder what if those themes were reversed and it just kind of blew my mind for a second and when you really think and look at it they almost would compliment each other without missing a beat so that was my kind of pinball what if my pinball what if epiphany so to speak i like it yeah i'm gonna give you an old one okay um what if you took oktoberfest right okay ripped all the artwork off of it through the cosmic carnival artwork on top of it and rethemed cosmic carnival on oktoberfest i don't think we've ever actually talked about that on air that is an unbelievable what if so you want to take dirty dirty donnie's cosmic carnival and and replace it with the existing art package on oktoberfest how would that affected sales how would that have impacted sales do you think what's funny laughing is i hear somebody right now they're having an epiphany in their car or in their office or while they're walking saying damn that might actually be cool so i'm sure we'll get some emails on it man but i think that would have been pretty interesting and it actually the cosmic carnival goes with the theme of the roller coaster kind of like corkscrew ramps or wire forms and whatnot perfect it's a quirky thing yeah you'd have to get rid of the the old dude on uh auto auto on yeah yeah whatever you can replace him with a crazy clown or something like that dude some creepy that would have been nuts man creepy ass clown would have been perfect on that wow you did kind of just blow my mind so it's interesting that we both went because when i brought up this uh idea just for some basic discussion i didn't talk to you about switching themes off of machines but that's where you went with it too changing the theme of a current game it was either that or what if williams would have ran another two years with the pinball 2000 platform we would have seen wizard blocks we would have seen playboy what else would we have seen yeah playboy would have been really interesting on the pinball 2000 platform it might not it might have been just a bit outside for sales but uh popular nonetheless oh man but yeah i mean i could still see that i would like to have seen that one a little bit further through than two games. Yeah, it's an interesting point, man. When you think about it now, I wonder if it could have increased sales. Because I think some of the issues that people have with Oktoberfest, it's not how the game shoots, not the rules. It's just more, again, kind of the theme and the artwork, right? Well, you know, animations are pretty good, in my opinion. Now, that being said, Cosmic Carnival is still an original theme, but it's more of an appealing art package. It looks sick. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, you throw that kind of kooky, evil-ish kind of stuff on top of that game, dude, and it would have just killed it. What if you just hybrided it where it was like a Cosmic Carnival meets Oktoberfest beer drinking? That would have been nuts, too. Creepy-ass clowns drinking beer. Oh. That would have been cool, too. Clowns are creepy, but I don't mind beer, so it would kind of offset. I don't know. Interesting. Nice work. Yeah. Anyone with opinions, please email the show or throw something on Facebook. Whatever it takes. 220-221, whatever it takes. Do you want to talk a little bit about anything going on with Bill's Corner?
    35:54
    Twister's leaving this weekend, I think. Wow, so why is it leaving so fast? Because, I mean, you just got that, what, three weeks ago, four weeks ago? The game is cool. It's not what I was hoping. And there was a friend that we both mutually know that was, you know, when he heard that I bought it on the podcast, he was like, so you got a Twister, huh? I'm like, yeah, dude, I know you wanted that. So it's good. It's going to a good home. So I think he's going to come up this weekend and pick that up, which is good stuff. and honestly that's one of the selling points of how i got the wife on board with let me buy dialed in because otherwise there's no way this would have flown yeah and well so i get it it's good stuff um yeah other than that that's about it what's up with transformers uh not a whole lot right now so it's sitting idle i just got some parts that i needed last week um but then i had some stuff come up that i had to move over the weekend so i didn't have time um so yeah this This week it'll be getting Twister up to the garage and then jumping back on Transformers. Did you see that CPR is offering re-theme service now for pinball machines? I did. Which I think is pretty cool. I thought about re-theming Cactus Jacks. Oh, really? Why would you do that? Cactus Jacks 2.0, man. I thought you were going to re-theme Oktoberfest. No. I'm just talking crap, man. Dude, that's an expensive game to re-theme. Which one? On Oktoberfest. Oh, yeah. That would be a pretty huge undertaking. You kind of, I think you'd have to call up Matt at Back Alley and be like, hey, man, can you take that Otto plastic and make it look like a creepy clown or something? You could probably paint up Otto to make him look like he's a twisted drunken mime or something. Actually, that would be kind of cool. Yeah, you could do it, man. But the animations wouldn't fit, at least with like Cactus Jazz. You had enough beers, man. They would fit just fine. Yeah, but I don't drink enough beer. No, but you need to drink more beer when you're playing Oktoberfest. This is true. But I do love that service that CPR is offering. It's a little on the pricey side. I haven't dug into it. But for a one-off, I mean, because you're not mass-producing these things. What do they want for a one-off? I don't remember what the play fields were, but I think like a back glass was like $750.
    37:58
    I think a set of plastics was like around $400. So, I mean, there's money to be made there. And for somebody that – because this is the thing, too. If these things have always been what's held you back from retheming a game, there's no excuse now except for money. It's not like you don't have the skills or the skill set to do this stuff because there's a service that's being provided. I'm glad that they're doing it. Now, I'm going through a retheme right now with Meteor going to – from Meteor to Cherry Atomic. So I'm just always real kind of cognizant of what options are out there. And I think it's really cool. And their meteors, they just announced that Meteor is now available for sale. Meteor playfields are available. Yes, yes. And it's strange because if Meteor playfields were available when I first got my Meteor, because it's just blown out. I don't know that I would have rethemed it, but I was like, ah, who cares? There's no playfields available. I'm just going to retheme this. Might as well do it. So I'm still going to retheme it. I'm still going to go through it. Somebody says, hey, Ken, I'll give you three grand for Meteor right now. Three grand for Meteor? Three grand. Which is completely ludicrous money. I would take it, and I would just go buy another beater for, you know, what's a beater meteor? I don't know. A meteor is probably like a roached one you could probably get in the $500, $600 range, I would assume. Really? I mean a blown out one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think you probably could still find that. That's not terrible, then. No, it's not terrible. I mean, nice ones are in the thousands, but, I mean, just like a Bill Webb hurricane special meteor.
    39:26
    Probably get one. $200. Because it's all going to be redone anyways. Who cares? Well, yeah, but you need to make sure the boards and stuff are still salvageable, otherwise you're buying another game. Yeah, those older electronics, you can get them working. I mean, I can't get them working. A little WD-40. Just spray Windex on them. Throw them in a dishwasher and put it on low agitation in the washer. That probably would be fine. Comes out fine. It's no problem. Or the ultrasonic cleaner, but that's okay. Just take everything off piece by piece and whatever it takes. Yeah, dude, that would suck. Yeah, it would suck. Yeah, you're going to spend more on those boards than you will the game. To buy another game with working boards. What would you re-theme your Cactus Jacks to?
    40:06
    I was just being a smart aleck. Oh, okay. Because I thought part of the allure was Cactus Jacks. It is. It's so damn terrible. Dancing cacti. My daughter and I made it downstairs for about 20 minutes on Sunday and played Cactus Jacks. And I still don't know why I own it, but it's cool. That sucks to say because I was like, damn, I should just sell this thing now. But it's just so unique. But you guys haven't played it either, so that one won't go until you guys play it. Yeah, I would like to play it. I've been at your place in a little bit, so I'm going to have to check it out at some point. There will be a cool row to check out here soon. Yes. Yeah, the row has gone over a lot of transformations since the last time that I was there.
    40:47
    What I did want to mention is we have a surplus, especially with the Pinball Podcast shirts. We bought a bunch before Expo this past year.
    40:57
    So instead of us sitting on these shirts forever, normally we would sell shirts for $29 shipped in the United States. If you want a shirt, especially one like Pinball Podcast shirt, they're the Brian Holderman Tiki Girl shirts. And we have these on like an ocean blue kind of backing. It's like a heathered ocean blue kind of shirt. If you want one, we're going to – because, again, I don't want to carry surplus. We're going to slash the price on those for $19 shipped. So if you are looking to get one and you've just been waiting or you're looking to get 10 of them, now's the time. Absolutely. If you're looking to buy in quantities, let me know because we can offer a discount on that too. But $19 shipped. You're getting the shirt at that point for like $13, $14. They're super nice shirts. We've gotten really good feedback on them. And maybe we'll go in other directions with shirts at some point. But I just don't feel good sitting on a bunch of shirts. Yeah, we've got a clean house right now. There's other stuff we want to put in that area. Right. Under construction. Yeah. Special in-lay pinball podcast. And what is under construction right now, Ken? Should we leave that out? There's a lot under construction. Okay. A little makeover taking place. We haven't got the permits for that yet, so we won't talk about that just yet. Don't have the permits, but they've been submitted. So you guys will see soon enough. I want to thank LearnMods.com for sponsoring the podcast. Robin Kim. Awesome. If you're looking for custom quality play field mods and lighting for your pinball machine, L-E-R-M-O-D-S visit Lermods.com today and I think that's going to wrap up episode number 87 well everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening and don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball so long everybody