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DPP #156 "Pinball news roundup! Online arguments!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·35m 5s·analyzed·Nov 4, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.040

TL;DR

Stern's code updates rescue John Wick and X-Men; Ninja Eclipse sells out; Pulp Fiction LEs finally shipping; virtual pinball debate emerges.

Summary

Don discusses recent pinball industry news including major code updates for John Wick and X-Men from Stern, Ninja Eclipse's successful sellout post-Expo, the upcoming Cuphead release from American Pinball, and prolonged delays on Pulp Fiction limited editions (18 months since announcement). He also explores Stern's 110-theme community survey as a licensing gauge, Universal Classic Monsters as a potential pinball theme, and reflects on online fandom arguments about virtual pinball machines versus mechanical pinball.

Key Claims

  • John Wick pinball received a major code dump bringing it to version 0.89, with significant improvements to mode progression and gameplay clarity

    high confidence · Don played the updated code and interviewed lead programmer Elliot Eisman and Tim Sexton on Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama; Tim confirmed ongoing development despite 9-week gap before this update

  • Ninja Eclipse sold out completely post-Expo; Turner Pinball shipped first units after Expo

    high confidence · Don spoke directly with Turner at Expo; Turner declined to discuss specific production numbers but confirmed rapid sellout

  • Pulp Fiction LE orders placed in March 2023 are finally shipping in November-December 2024, representing an 18-month delay from original November 2023 promise

    high confidence · Don reviewed original March 2023 announcement and cross-referenced with current shipping timeline; notes Chicago Gaming Company is meticulous but slow

  • Stern released a survey of 110 potential themes to gauge community interest, mixing 10-20 serious license candidates with 80+ filler options

    medium confidence · Don and international operator Retro Jango analyzed the survey on new We Are Pinball episode; Don speculates on Stern's sandbagging strategy but didn't receive survey directly

  • Cuphead release from American Pinball is expected around December 2024, not at IAPA as previously rumored

    medium confidence · Don cites 'rumblings' and his own assessment based on production timeline; notes Ryan McQuaid has been heavily involved in design

  • X-Men received meaningful code updates including mode progression bars and 'fastball special' moment reference

    high confidence · Don has played updated code on his X-Men LE machine; observes visible progress bars and gameplay enhancements

  • Stern's release schedule is extremely packed with cornerstone games announced around Christmas/New Year followed by dispersed releases throughout 2025

    medium confidence · Don speculates based on pattern from Jaws (Christmas tease, New Year release) and current X-Men/Metallica momentum

Notable Quotes

  • “So for that, I love you. I'm having some fun playing some John Wick.”

    Don @ ~10:00 — Expresses appreciation for Stern's commitment to finishing John Wick despite lengthy code gaps; marks sentiment shift from earlier pessimism about the game being abandoned

  • “X-Men is going to be such a fire game when it's done I just hope that you know John Wick can keep up this slow burn and finish off those higher echelon levels with the code”

    Don @ ~14:00 — Indicates both games improving through iterative code updates; positions X-Men as potentially stronger final product than John Wick

  • “They did not need to release Metallica when they did, man. We were riding high on X-Men, dude. We could have rode that game into the Expo sunset. But no, they dropped it.”

    Don @ ~16:00 — Questions Stern's aggressive release timing; suggests schedule pressure is driving decisions rather than market readiness

  • “it has now been 18 months and then I think you're finally going to get your game now. I don't think it's a stretch to say that enthusiasm has really fallen off for the game's release. How could it not? There's been like seven bangers since then.”

    Don @ ~44:00 — Critiques Chicago Gaming's production delays on Pulp Fiction LE; notes market fatigue from competing releases eroding initial FOMO

  • “Screens are basically free. You know, I bought a television the other day from Walmart that was like, you know, 36 inches for $88 or less or something. So, like, you know, we can afford like $100 to put a good-sized display in a machine.”

    Don @ ~37:00 — Practical criticism of American Pinball's cabinet design choices; suggests screen sizing should be prioritized for Cuphead's animation-heavy design

  • “it's always six months in the future. So, you know, for that reason, you know, their next release, I'm going to wait and pick one up used because I just don't know when they're going to come out.”

    Don @ ~46:00 — Demonstrates customer defection strategy due to production uncertainty; suggests Chicago Gaming Company's delays are eroding direct sales confidence

Entities

John WickgameX-MengameNinja EclipsegamePulp FictiongameCupheadgameMetallicagame

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Chicago Gaming Company increased social media transparency via new manager 'Mia'; higher communication frequency on Pulp Fiction updates

    medium · Don: 'it seems like from now they have a social media lady Mia I believe is what her name is...she's actually dropping updates a little more frequently now especially that the LE is coming into release I love seeing that level of transparency'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Pulp Fiction LE FOMO deflated by 18-month delay and competing releases; customer enthusiasm erosion despite production quality

    high · Don: 'if you ordered which a thousand people did Pulp Fiction LE in March of 2023 it has now been 18 months...enthusiasm has really fallen off for the game's release. How could it not? There's been like seven bangers since then'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Stern's aggressive release schedule (X-Men → Metallica → rumored D&D) driven by packed production calendar rather than market-driven timing

    medium · Don: 'They did not need to release Metallica when they did...We could have rode that game into the Expo sunset. But no, they dropped it. And the reason that they did has to be because there's no room in the schedule, man. The release schedule is freaking packed'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Universal Classic Monsters identified as convergent licensing opportunity across theme parks, Stern survey, and NAP Arcade discussions suggesting multiple stakeholder interest

    medium · Don: 'I'm thinking of it. Universal's thinking of it. We've got a trifecta...if the company wants to make it, the license holder wants to license it, and the playing public wants to play it, I think that's solid gold'

  • $

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.105

0:00
You ready in the studio? Let's hit it. Don's Pinball Podcast is rolling forward to your face with episode 156. I'm keeping track of all of these. It's been a minute. And there's been some pinball content that has generated in the diaspora, in the ether. Let's distill it and catch those sweet concentrated droplets right now. Hit it.
0:44
Need a pinball? Email jeff at mattpinball.com and tell him Don said to send him an email. even if you're not buying a machine just email him and ask him how his day is going because he's a lovely human being he's been hooking me up and helping me out lately just want to give another shout out to the great Jeff at the Mad Pinball have you ever met a bad Jeff? I mean really? if you think about all the Jeffs that we know in our lives and how great they are to all of us what's up everybody? it's been a little bit getting caught up from the post expo settling down of everything Ninja Eclipse sold out I didn't know it was that close to selling out. I talked to Turner himself when I was there playing with him right before the great Roger Sharp took the stage at the Ninja Clip four pile there. And I'm like, you know, maybe when he's down to his last four or something, I'll go ahead and I'll get me one. Get me like number 100 of 100 or something and just put a nice cap on it. And he's like, well, I'm not really going to talk numbers. And I'm thinking, all right, he's probably around 45 or so. No, those things sold right the heck out. So way to go, guy.
1:47
You get air horn. Turner Pinball, for selling all your Ninja Eclipses. So fantastic. Now, let's see how he does rolling them out and getting them to customers. The first ones already went out after Expo, so that was awesome. Tons of stuff's been happening. John Wick is leading the news, so the top story from our news desk this week is that the John Wick game, the Pinball Machine, the much maligned but very well stylized game from Stern Pinball, it seems like it came out years ago, finally has some decent codes. You know what? You get a horn, too. So, lights out, everybody. I've been playing the new code. I interviewed, along with Enzo, on Gonzo's Pinball Flipperama, a lot of adjectives, lead programmer and designer, Elliot Eisman and Tim Sexton. And on the eve of the code release, I got to talk to him for a full hour like, Hey, guys, can I get some mode progress? Can I get some more call-outs? Can I get some more things? Can I make the ball saves and the outlanes work? and they said, yes, hold my diet root beer, hold my Chicago hot dog. It's coming, and boy, did it. We got like a mega dump of things. It seems like rather than piecemeal releasing code over the last, I don't know, nine weeks or so, kind of saved it all up for this one big dump, and it catapulted the game to .89 I think is where we're at now. Still some more to go. We need some more call-outs, especially in the modes. I still don't know quite what I'm doing, but it feels like more of an actual game now rather than just like a multi-ball and some modes that don't make sense until all my balls drain. So I feel that there's now a game in here, which is great because John Wick has the vibe, man. It's got that neo-noir. It's like dark, rain-soaked streets, car racing, you know, very like stylized, almost Matrix-esque. And I think that's clearly on purpose. So like I want the gameplay to be there so I can play in this world that they've created. And I think we took another giant step towards that. I think that's still the goal. Is it going to be a rebound king like Bond? Too early to say. But I will say the games that I've been having on it, I'm playing longer. It's making more of an impact on me. I still want some mode progression. You know, when I'm hitting the shots in the mode, like how close am I to actually finishing it? Fortunately, Tim was taking all of this in. And this is not a game that Stern has abandoned. That's what I'd heard some people saying that. Easy to think that when it's been like nine weeks or so and we haven't really seen much come out in the form of like code progression or anything. But no, they said, look, we've got a lot of work to do on it. We have a lot of ideas, but these ideas take time. We have to code these things, and so they will come out. But they are going to take this game to completion. So for that, I love you.

  • Houdini and Oktoberfest have been officially retired from American Pinball production despite continued distributor orders

    high confidence · Don saw announcement on NAP Arcade; also visited factory and observed completed units still shipping with labels

  • “Real pinball is always going to be better than a virtual pinball experience. Always. The benefits of the virtual pinball machine, however, is variety.”

    Don @ ~56:00 — Balances community gatekeeping against practical value of virtual pinball; frames debate as spectrum rather than binary

  • “I could have one Fishtails or I could have Fishtails and 1,399 other games that I can play with no lag or anything in my machine, whatever.”

    Don @ ~57:00 — Articulates core value proposition of virtual pinball machines; challenges dismissive framing in community discourse

    • Stern Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Elliot Eismanperson
    Tim Sextonperson
    Turner Pinballcompany
    Ryan McQuaidperson
    Retro Jangoperson
    Universal Picturescompany
    Keith Elwinperson
    Brian Eddyperson
    Jack Dangerperson
    John Borgperson
    We Are Pinballpodcast
    Gonzo's Pinball Flipperamapodcast
    Universal Classic Monsterstheme
    Roger Sharpperson
    Miaperson

    market_signal: Ninja Eclipse rapid sellout post-Expo demonstrates strong demand for boutique manufacturer titles and Turner Pinball brand momentum

    high · Don: 'those things sold right the heck out' after Expo; Turner declined to discuss production numbers but confirmed rapid depletion; first units already shipped

  • ?

    community_signal: Ryan McQuaid's extensive involvement in Cuphead design; Don observes him constantly working at factory during visits, suggesting complex project requiring heavy iteration

    medium · Don: 'I've seen him at the factory...he seems to be just running around every time I'm there, working on this, that, or the other. So with all the time that he's been able to put into this, he's made Sonic the Homebrew game'

  • $

    market_signal: Chicago Gaming Company production delays creating customer defection; Don notes he will wait for used Pulp Fiction units rather than pre-order, citing unpredictable delivery timelines

    high · Don: 'it's always six months in the future. So, you know, for that reason, you know, their next release, I'm going to wait and pick one up used because I just don't know when they're going to come out. I hate having money tied up like that.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: American Pinball Houdini and Oktoberfest officially retired; signals completion of product line consolidation and pivot to next generation (Cuphead)

    high · Don: 'Houdini and Oktoberfest are both retired...The fact that they're now retiring those tells me it's time to turn that new leaf...time to move on to, like, the next echelon and iteration of American Pinball'

  • ?

    product_concern: Cabinet design criticism on Cuphead regarding screen sizing; Don questions why premium display not prioritized for animation-heavy game

    medium · Don: 'You almost need a Jersey Jack size 22-inch screen...Hopefully American Pinball's redesigned the cabinet to take that into account...Screens are basically free...we can afford like $100 to put a good-sized display in a machine'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Dungeons & Dragons pinball game rumored for end-of-year/early-2025 announcement; speculation on designer (Brian Eddy vs. Keith Elwin/Jack Danger) and quality (Venom code improvement vs. Pokemon collaboration)

    low · Don: 'whatever this D&D game is coming out...he's probably around 45 or so...Maybe like Dungeons and Dragons Is the code name for Pokemon...Even if it is a D&D game Even if it's Brian Eddy...John Borg has had a game that's in the works for some time'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: John Wick sentiment reversal from assumed abandonment to active development commitment; major code dump demonstrated Stern's continued investment

    high · Don: 'This is not a game that Stern has abandoned. That's what I'd heard some people saying that. Easy to think that when it's been like nine weeks or so...But they said, look, we've got a lot of work to do on it...they will come out. But they are going to take this game to completion. So for that, I love you.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern's 110-theme survey interpreted as dual-purpose: genuine community feedback while sandbagging actual license portfolio to maintain secrecy

    medium · Don: 'the way that you do it is you sandbag your 10 to 20 actual themes and licenses you're seriously considering making, and you pad in another 80 or so just useless fluff, things that nobody wants...to gauge interest...without just completely letting the cat out of the bag'

    • 4:32
    I'm having some fun playing some John Wick. We also got another big code dump for X-Men. I haven't even had time to sink my teeth into that. No joke. In the last week, I've been playing more John Wick than I've been playing X-Men. And I got the X-Men LE. Like, they're facing each other, like in a face-off battle, right? And honestly, I think I've been playing more John Wick. That's okay. I mean, I played the literal hell out of X-Men as soon as they hit the floor here at District Don's Arcade. So, like, it's not that I got it and I'm ignoring it. Like, I've put through probably 200 games on there already, man. super fun hitting the center lane now that I got it kind of dialed in on the flipper they've had meaningful code updates there's code progression bar or mode progression bars in the modes now I love that there's a fastball special moment you know so that's in there so I can't wait to see where this game goes to completion I think it's going to the moon man X-Men is going to be such a fire game when it's done I just hope that you know John Wick can keep up this slow burn and finish off those higher echelon levels with the code, and we'll see where we're at. I'll tell you what, though. No matter how you feel about these two games, Stern Pinball is not letting us rest because they've got a killer lineup of games coming out, and I don't see them slowing down at all. Case in point, we just had X-Men release. It was the new game at Expo, or it should have been, and then the remastered Metallica, which we can argue it and whatever you believe is correct, but I kind of see it as like a brand new game, man. It's a whole new game of, of, of Metallica, especially for me, somebody that hasn't played a ton of that Sam system game. Um, I've played, you know, on a location a few times. I've only played an Ellie one time out in the wild, you know? So for me to get my fingers on this game with its spike to drippy goodness and you know, the updated, you know, band members, the callouts, uh, the graphics on the screen, all of that, man, the lighting, come on, the new songs that are in there, the software updates, everything. It's a new game to me. They did not need to release Metallica when they did, man. We were riding high on X-Men, dude. We could have rode that game into the Expo sunset. But no, they dropped it. And the reason that they did has to be because there's no room in the schedule, man. The release schedule is freaking packed, and they need to get games out, right? You know, they dropped this now because at the end of next month, there's going to be another game, like another Cornerstone game, in all likelihood, announced either the week of Christmas or teased for Christmas and released after New Year's just like Jaws was a year ago. And then we're going to get that three-cornerstone release plus other releases dispersed in there.
    7:09
    The release from Stern has not slowed down. We got the game prior to X-Men, the cornerstone prior to X-Men, Jaws, and then they dropped Godzilla 70th on us and John Wick on us, or maybe it was Wick and then 70th and then X-Men and then Metallica and then whatever this D&D game is coming out. Let's do the thing where like Before the rumored game comes out from the major manufacturer We all start saying like No that's just the code name It's really going to be an insert theme that you really want to hear So maybe like Dungeons and Dragons Is the code name for Pokemon And like Pokemon is about to be dropped on us From Keith Elwin And Jack Danger Cohabitating on it But I don't know even if it is a D&D game Even if it's Brian Eddy that's doing it Is it a Brian Eddy? He did Venom. I think he kind of would be up. It wouldn't surprise me if he had a game out. John Borg has had a game that's in the works for some time. You know, was that, was he working on Metallica? I don't know. I don't know for sure. I haven't heard any official confirmation or even any unofficial confirmation. But I will say, if this is a 2.0 Venom code as far as level building, unlockable characters, unlockable items, things that make sense, innovative gameplay and pinball, I'm all for it. even if Dungeons & Dragons is not, like, a top ten theme that I would think would be coming out now. I'm enthusiastic about seeing more about it. And, you know, with this mad release, dude, I can't even keep up anymore. I'm going to let a couple of releases just kind of float by me so I can get caught up with everything that I have here, man. Dude, it's been nuts around here. Speaking of themes just recorded this morning another We Are Pinball episode with Retro Jango my little side project my international project that we doing You know I mean this podcast is aimed at anybody with ear holes and a rudimentary understanding of the English language, at least to the level that I'm speaking at, which is, you know, pedestrian, to be honest. But I wanted to have some more international reach, and so I partnered with my buddy in Denmark. He's an operator in the Copenhagen region, and, you know, it's fun to get his perspective too. So we sat down with, like, the 110 or so random, it seems, themes that Stern just released for their online survey to just gauge interest from the community, like, what do you want to see? Probably to compare it to what their list of licenses is they're planning on making, and just to see if, again, if they're overburdened with projects right now and trying to find space on the release schedule, maybe if there's something that, you know, is scoring a little lower, they can, you know, kick that back to the re-theme pile or something and just kind of bring the bangers. You know, you want to have, like, some kind of consistent heat. You know, you don't want to blow out, like, your King Kongs and Pokemons and have them come, like, back to back. You kind of want to spread it out a little bit. And so this seems to be a way to gauge interest. Now, pinball is not the video game industry. Okay, we know about video games years before they come out. And we get little snippets of them shown. You know, Just Cause 5 has a release trailer or a teaser trailer out. Grand Theft Auto 6 has been in development forever. Like, we know those are coming. Pinball doesn't work like that, though. They're very secretive. They keep everything under wraps to the best of their ability, despite our exuberance of wanting to hear it and just spread it out to everybody. And so they don't really want to announce a theme that they're working on until it's ready to be in a box and be bought, which is a great approach to have. But the thing is, how do you have a focus group about titles that you want to work on without just completely letting the cat out of the bag? Well, the way that you do it is you sandbag your 10 to 20 actual themes and licenses you're seriously considering making, and you pad in another 80 or so just useless fluff, things that nobody wants. Who wants a Fleetwood Mac pinball machine? I see you, Gary, jumping up and down. I would love that. Landslide, that's my shit, man.
    10:53
    Okay, yeah, for that guy, fine, but to sell 1,000 units, 2,000 units? Fleetwood Mac ain't it. Grateful Dead ain't it. I love me some Grateful Dead, man. Touch of gray all day. But, you know, I don't think it's going to move 2,000 units. Not like Back to the Future, not like Goonies, not like National Improved Christmas Vacation. So we actually went through in just over an hour and kind of mentioned and talked about every one of those themes that was on that survey. I didn't get one emailed to me. Probably maybe because they're trying to keep it a little bit secretive. They know I would just blab as soon as I get it, which, okay, I probably would. But we'll get to sit down and actually go through them all. And Robocop, man, that was like his pick. It's like this is my next to Predator, right? Not the Chris Hansen one, but like, you know, the jungle one. Next to Predator, he was all about some Robocop and got me thinking, like, I wouldn't mind Robocop from back in the day, Robocop 1 and maybe 2, released with, like, modern-day equipment, modern-day hardware, and, like, just put together a stainless steel game. Not a re-theme of that old Gottlieb or whatever with the jump ramp, but like I guess you'd have to put a jump ramp in there just as an homage, but like a modern pinball machine with that old license, those old movie clips, upscaled HD. Tell me, that wouldn't be fun, man. Freeze, citizen.
    12:13
    You're coming with us. Like that would be fun. So it was cool to get his perspective. So you can check that out on the We Are Pinball. One thing that I didn't happen to notice, and this was actually a part of the survey, and it's also been shown up in Nap Arcade, something that showed up in my own brain, and that is Universal Classic Monsters as a theme. And so Universal is very interested in looking at their own IP that they own. Like, you know, when Charles Lemley, I think it was his name, started the backlot in Hollywood for Universal Pictures, Monster Movies is what catapulted them. The Bela Lugosi films, you know, the Dracula, the Creature from the Black Lagoon was filmed there. They still have the Lagoon you can see on the studio tour out in Hollywood. So they have, like, these classic films, Bride of Frankenstein. And so over the years, they've been trying to incorporate them more into theme park attractions. And I say, you know, if it works for a theme park attraction, it would work for a Lego set. It would work for a pinball machine. And so, you know, the haunted house walkthroughs that they have done, you know, that's totally worked. Their new theme park that they're opening in Florida, Epic Universe, is going to have a whole universal classic monsters land. the village of Darkmoor is going to be there will be a Frankenstein Castle dark ride there's going to be a Wolfman launched spinning roller coaster themed restaurants a ton of cool stuff that's going to be going on and so I see them having that license as like let's see where else we could put this how can we get the brand out there how can we grow it, I think it would work with Pinball, we've seen that theme work with Pinball before, with Monster Bash so imagine if you would a machine that's just the village of Darkmoor it's loaded with these monsters. You're a monster hunter or you're the monsters hunting the citizens or maybe you can pick a side and you have all these creatures in there and it's almost like a monster bash but with a little bit more of a darker tone. I could see it really working. The other place that this theme showed up was in the Stern survey. They're thinking of it too. I'm thinking of it. Universal's thinking of it. We've got a trifecta. I think if the company wants to make it, the license holder wants to license it, and the playing public wants to play it, I think that's solid gold, man. So let's see that bubble, and then sometime in the next 18 to 24 months, if we don't hear or see something like that, you know, manifest itself in the flesh, like a flesh-eating zombie. I think it could work. Let me know what you think. Don's Pinball Podcast at gmail.com is where you can get at this guy. So what else do we have coming up on the schedule? It's the eve of the Cuphead release, I think, for All Eyes Around American Pinball. They did announce, or at least I saw it announced on NAP Arcade, that Houdini and Oktoberfest are both retired. I think that was probably years coming. But again, I say that, but then I've been to the factory, and I've seen that they're still getting orders for Hot Wheels, for Houdini, for Oktoberfest, man. They're in boxes. They have shipping labels on them. They're going to somebody. Somebody out there wants these games still. And so I would have thought, you know, whatever enthusiasm for these titles existed should be satiated by what's already been produced in the used games market. But if they're getting orders and distributors are ordering them, then that's why the game keeps getting put back on the line. So that's awesome. But the fact that they're now retiring those tells me it's time to turn that new leaf. I think the spigot is just about dried up for any new in-box barbecue purchases, any new in-box Galactic Tank Force purchases. I think it's time to move on to, like, the next echelon and iteration of American Pinball. And I think we're going to see it with Cuphead. So I've talked to some people. If you don't know the Cuphead theme, you're like, what the heck even is this thing? And how do you even explain it to somebody? I tried to explain it to Genghis because he didn't really understand. And it's like, okay, well, you know, imagine like 1930s Mickey Mouse pie-eyed cartoons colorized in like a Max Flesher kind of art style. And he's just like, what are you even talking about, man? So it's hard to explain. But if you play the game, game is fun. Game is brutal. It's the type of game that Well these type of brutal games are enjoying A resurgence almost like Demon's Souls Has where the game is Brutally difficult but learnable and like Once you learn it and you can exploit the patterns Then you can get through it Essentially these are very difficult stages and difficult boss fights But they are learnable and then there's some degree of Satisfaction when you figure out the patterns And you're able to beat these guys The take home point is the animation is absolutely Gorgeous and the play control Of the run and gun type Fighter is there. Controls are very tight, so it's very good, very responsive. It's like playing Contra back in the day on the NES with completely beautiful graphics, right? So, of course, the animations on this game are going to look great. Hopefully, American Pinball's redesigned the cabinet to take that into account. I mean, you almost need a Jersey Jack size 22-inch screen. I'm not sure if that's the actual size, but 18 to 22 inches looks about right. I think you need like that kind of display to really show these things off. I know Hot Wheels had that kind of off-center tiny screen. Houdini did the same thing. Not a huge fan of that. Really make the screen bigger. Screens are basically free. You know, I bought a television the other day from Walmart that was like, you know, 36 inches for $88 or less or something. So, like, you know, we can afford like $100 to put a good-sized display in a machine. You know hopefully that in the build of materials It not wildly off But like let capture that Like this game has to have screens you know or put some screen effects into or under the glass you know Alice in Wonderland one of the best things about it was that watch screen that in there You know, you're looking down at the play field, you know, tuck a screen in there somewhere so we can get some antics. I think that would work. I know Ryan McQuaid has been working on this game for quite a bit. I've seen him at the factory. I haven't had a lot of time to talk to the guy, But he seems to be just running around every time I'm there, working on this, that, or the other. So with all the time that he's been able to put into this, he's made Sonic the Homebrew game. Gameplay is really fun. I saw it generating a lot of interest at Expo, even amongst industry folks. So let's see what this game brings. Hopefully it is a next level, a next step up for American Pinball, especially coming off of Barbecue. Kind of like the classic theme, but for a classic single-level game, I think I'd veer towards Pulp Fiction and not so much Berrios Barbecue Challenge. I do play it on location, though, and I do have a soft spot for some Berrios. And maybe we'll get some other themes that will really lighten it up because, you know, theme and sounds, music can be 50% of the experience, man. So let's see what we have to see. When are we going to see it? So there was some rumblings that it was going to be at IAPA. I don't have the sense that that's going to happen. I would think maybe around the time of December or so. So it seems to be December. Late quarter 2024 will be owned by Spooky Pinball and American Pinball's release. They'll be right in there. Stern, I would expect them to be, you know, first, second week of January. But they may surprise us with two more games before the end of the year. I don't know. Haven't heard anything for sure. But it's all coming. It's all coming. Come on, Spooky guys. Like, it's the calm before the spook right now. You know, Halloween has come and gone. The fog is lifted. The snow is inbound. but there's still like a darkness brewing. There's a fog that's centered around Benton, Wisconsin but soon the veil will be lifted and we will see what's coming out of there and I hope it's going to be awesome.
    19:33
    I can't wait to see the release and the reaction to the release and I just want to watch people play this game and see what they think because I've got some high hopes for Spooky 13. 13 games, man. That's awesome. That's awesome that they've done that. What else did I want to talk about?
    19:48
    Alright, so So we've heard it by now. Pulp Fiction, limited editions. They're finally, we got a date now that seems like it's actually going to happen. Apparently they're putting together toppers right now. They've showed at least one cabinet that had the chrome in it, that had the wallet in it in production. So they're saying the next month we're going to see LEs finally leave. That would be November, December 2024. I went back just for fun to look at the announcement of this game. It was March 2023. this was that March Madness, right? Heading into TPF with seven new games. Galactic Tank Force was there. Pulp Fiction was there with huge lines.
    20:27
    I'm trying to think of a ton of other releases that came out. There was like five other games. It was nuts.
    20:32
    Stern and Jersey Jack had games. It was before Elton John. Was it Godfather? Yeah, it was like all those games, like all at the same time. Do you remember? At the time, it was said that if you had ordered the LE of Pulp Fiction, you could look at a November 2023 release, that is 12 months ago from where we are now I ordered my Pulp Fiction standard edition in June 2023 right so about 3 or 4 months after the release I got it in May of 2024 so I waited about 11 months from when I ordered and so if you ordered which a thousand people did Pulp Fiction LE in March of 2023 it has now been 18 months and then I think you're finally going to get your game now. I don't think it's a stretch to say that enthusiasm has really fallen off for the game's release. How could it not? There's been like seven bangers since then.
    21:25
    So my hope is that, and it seems like CGC is thinking this too, maybe get tighten the reins a little bit on production. I know they're meticulous. Things are built like tanks. Nobody has a problem because of the build quality of the games, or at least I haven't run into any issues.
    21:40
    But can we get them a little closer to release? Now, these were commercial machines and in the day when 80% of the people buying these things were commercial operators, you know, you would be operating a business, you would see, you would go to a trade show, okay, or you take a flyer on a game. All right, I want to bring this into my arcade. Here's a deposit. Let me know when it's going to be available. And then a year later, whenever they came out, like, you know, you got your new game because you had your order in. But the home buyer, we're not like that, you know. If we see a game, we want to put down this money. we may buy one game every four years and so if this is going to be it and that money's tied up we want to be enjoying our new toy and not waiting 18 months while other release after release comes out we're missing out on that because that money's already tied up so it sounds like from now they have a social media lady Mia I believe is what her name is there's a Pulp Fiction connection there so she's actually dropping updates a little more frequently now especially that the LE is coming into release I love seeing that level of transparency from the company, and it sounds like they want to try to tighten the release schedule as well. So we'll see. We'll see. Now, it is known that the cabinet company that owns Chicago Gaming Company services a whole lot of other industry folks, and they build arcade cabinets and all sorts of other things. So pinball isn't the sole thing that they're doing. I get that. But it would be nice to have a little bit more of a, you know, when it's coming out, it comes out. I mean, I've been hearing that the next run of Medieval Madness was supposed to happen in 2023, and now it's 2024, now it's going into 2025, and it's like, it's always six months in the future. So, you know, for that reason, you know, their next release, I'm going to wait and pick one up used because I just don't know when they're going to come out. I hate having money tied up like that. I don't have the budget to be able to do that. And so that's where I am with that. But I love the transparency that they're now having, like that higher level. It's not just all quiet on the Western front. You dig me? All right. Let's move on to some other stuff. I am involved in several different hobby spheres, and I've talked about it here before. I won't bore you with it, but, you know, theme parks, roller coasters, power paragliding, skateboarding, the mix, you know. You know, the underground world of the insane clown posse, all kinds of stuff. All little fandoms that all have their own, you know, dialogues, dialects, arguments that we have online. But some of that, there is some crossover. And as far as like the same type of arguments tend to happen in all these little hobbies. And it's funny to me now, you know, that I'm not solely invested in just one thing, that I see that. Like the same personalities. Like I have people in the coaster fandom and the theme park fandom that their personalities match other people that are in the pinball fandom. And it's like it's so funny. It's like you're so knowledgeable about roller coasters in just the same way that this guy who dresses just like you is knowledgeable about all System 11 games, man. And it knows every designer, every quirk, every last-minute change that happened. Like, it's nuts. It's so funny to me. And so that does bleed over into online arguments. So I have a virtual pinball machine. I've enjoyed it. It's time for me to upgrade and move on to something else. So I listed it for sale. And people come by and they comment on sale things. You kind of can't help yourself sometimes. It's okay. As long as you're not on there, like, you're way overcharging for this thing, you jerk. you know um but the the topic came up that the virtual pinball machine isn't real pinball okay of course it's a virtual machine it's not a mechanical machine i get it but at the same time it's not a pac-man machine right so it's a virtual pinball machine that plays pinball games on virtual pinball tables just like a pinball machine does so it would be wrong to call it an alley roller, a skee-ball table, right? It would be wrong to call it like a Ticket Redemption thing. It's wrong to call it a coin pusher. So what do you call it? And I got this, oh, Don, it's not real pinball. And it's like, I've never said it was real pinball, right? Real pinball is always going to be better than a virtual pinball experience. Always. The benefits of the virtual pinball machine, however, is variety. You've got 1,400 games in there, some of which don't even exist as physical pinball machines, and there's no maintenance, right? It's statistically significant, no maintenance to be done. Huge benefits over a regular machine. Of course, a regular machine is going to be better, but I could have one Fishtails or I could have Fishtails and 1,399 other games that I can play with no lag or anything in my machine, whatever. So as I having this spirited discussion back and forth online I thinking back to some roller coaster arguments that I had online in exactly the same cadence and exactly the same way And I thought it be fun to kind of share it right So roller coasters right Vehicle track gravity chain lift launch brakes lap bars, some have one seat, some have 40 seats, you know, they come in various varieties. Something we don't do in pinball that we do in theme parks and roller coasters is we count the rides that we've done, right? You know, so if I go to a theme park and there's seven roller coasters and I ride every one of them, then I add seven to my count. And you keep a running count on not how many times you've ridden coasters, although some people do that, but how many different coasters you have ridden. And then when you meet another coaster enthusiast or something, you can say, hey, you know, what's your coaster count? Oh, I've got 35. Oh, that's cool. I've got 750. Oh, man. And then what that does is it tells you, not just like the measure of your coaster log, right, but, you know, how well-traveled you are. As I was a younger coaster enthusiast, I started around 76 coasters when I started counting. If I met somebody that had 300, 600 or so, I could then ask them, where have you been? Have you been to the Six Flags Parks in Texas? I've only done one. Have you done the other ones? Which one is better, you know? If I'm going to spend the time to take a trip and do a coaster expedition, you know, So talking to those people will help me decide, should I put my resources into going to San Antonio or should I go to Houston? You know, which one has the better rides? Which one do you think is the better value? You know, and that sort of thing. So it was fun. And if you meet somebody that's got, you know, a thousand coasters, it's like, what countries have you been to? Was it hard to get to Bhutan to go to that fun fair? You know, have you been to Oktoberfest? How was Japan? You know, how was China? And, you know, that's how I helped trip plan myself. All right. So that's all fine and well, right? Seems to make sense. anybody, general public, can understand that. You ride a coaster, you add a point to your tally list, and move on. Well, okay, here's where it gets fun. So let's say a wooden roller coaster has two separate tracks, okay? It's one ride. It's called Cyclone. It's called Colossus. It's called whatever. And you go and you ride it, and you ride one side on the red coaster, and you ride one side on the blue one. Now, when you go to count that, do you count that as one coaster? because it has one name and one queue entrance or because there's two separate tracks and two separate trains. Does that count as two, right? You had to get out and get back in line just as if it was like another coaster next to it. So is that one? Is that two? People will argue for weeks and not budge on whether that's one ride or two ride. Okay, what about if you ride Twisted Ankles, right, at Theme Park A, and then Theme Park A tears that down, sells it to Theme Park B six states away, and they reopen it, and they call it Blue Mountains, and you go ride Blue Mountains. Okay, you rode it at the original location. You rode it at the new location. Can you count it again at the new location? You expended the effort to travel all the way out there. It's not your fault that Theme Park B didn't buy a brand new ride, and let's say it's an off-the-shelf ride anyway. It's a clone. You know, it's like a Vekoma boomerang, right? That ride has been sold numerous times all around the world, exact carbon copies of different coasters. So if you ride one boomerang, have you ridden them all? You can't count them if you haven't ridden them, though. So these are the arguments that we would have. Okay, okay. Here's where it gets even more fun. All right, so what if instead of the power on the chain lift taking the coaster to the top of the hill, what if the power is on the coaster train itself and it receives electricity from a bus bar from the track and the coaster drives itself to the top of the hill or drives itself along the track? Gravity is still involved to accelerate, but essentially it's a powered coaster. Does that count? People will argue nonstop that that is not a real roller coaster, sir, even though it looks like a roller coaster and it has track and it has hills and it goes up and down because the energy is generated on the train itself from energy it receives from the track. You cannot have her recount that. And I'm like, okay, so I've gotten into this argument, which seems stupid to me, you know, because the coaster engineer designed it a little bit different. I get to lose out on my tally mark. I waited in line for this. I had to borrow a kid to even ride the ride sometimes. You know, like, I want to count it. I expended the effort. And people would say, no, that's not a coaster. It's not a real coaster, Don. What's wrong with you? And then my retort would be, oh, okay, so it's a Ferris wheel then? What the hell would you call it? Well, it's a powered coaster. It's okay, so give me an asterisk. Fine, you count the way you want to count. I'll count the way I want to count. But I'm not calling it not a roller coaster, right? It's not a log flume. It's not a dark ride. It's not a gift shop. It's not a corn dog. Come on. So as I'm talking to this gentleman online, civilly, of course, about, well, I'm playing Cactus Canyon on my virtual machine. Therefore, I'm playing pinball on it. No, no, you're not. No, you're not. And it's like, oh, my God, I'm having the frigging Ferris wheel roller coaster discussion again. It's the same thing. What is wrong with humans? And I don't think anything's wrong with humans. We have a difference of opinion, a difference of perspective. You know, some people's coaster count list will be 600 on the conservative side, 750 on the more liberal side, depending on if you counted, you know, that ride as one coaster or two. You know, some people are very strict with how they count. No, that's relocated. I'll go ride it again, but I'm not counting it again because I've physically ridden it somewhere else. What if it's a coaster at a carnival and the carnival travels?
    31:46
    Okay, if I ride this ride here in Ohio and then it ships to Mexico City and I go ride it down there, I feel like I should be able to count it. But if I'm at the county fair here and then I ride it at the state fair two counties over, it's still kind of the same ride. It just moved a couple counties. Maybe even I don't want to count that again. Honestly, if it's at a carnival, I probably don't even want to ride it again. but that notwithstanding. So, like, I get it. Like, whatever you're comfortable with, you're comfortable with. If a virtual pinball machine is not a pinball machine at all to you, okay, that doesn't affect me at all. Believe what you want. It's totally fine. But I'm playing pinball on a virtual cabinet, so I'm still counting it as a pinball machine. People ask me how many machines you have in your basement. I count that as one of them because it's physically the same dimensions as a pinball machine, and guess what? It plays pinball machines. Am I wrong? Am I crazy? Was this stupid?
    32:35
    Probably. but it's so fun. Like this stuff happens here. I'm sure the car enthusiasts have similar arguments. That's not a real posi rear end or whatever the hell it is. You know, Oh, electric cars aren't real cars. Oh, it's, I'm sure, I'm sure it happens. Um, but that, I just thought that was funny. It made the show because I want to talk about it. Plus like, Oh, I didn't even scratch the surface on the coaster arguments, man. Um, what if a roller coaster, it looks like a wooden coaster. It has two tracks, but instead of having two completely separate circuits, they cross over halfway through and when you start on the right side station you come back to the left side station and get off and somebody else gets on so it's a, oh god there's a name for it a Mobius track coaster is what they call it, right? and you still have to get out, get back in line, get back on it there's only three coasters on the planet that even do this and I think only two of them are actually operating right now so it doesn't come up that often but we do argue about it on coaster trips, absolutely I had to get off, get in a separate line to ride that other track. I'm counting it again, but it's only one physical track, man. Oh, my God. Okay, what if a roller coaster has an inversion, right, a loop, and it's had the loop for 20 years? Then, due to maintenance reasons, they remove the loop and reopen it and rebrand it as a different ride with 98% of the same track, but the loop is missing and maybe it has a different train. Do you get to count it again? I kind of think you do, and I will fight you on that.
    34:02
    Pinball, pinball. Pinball is fun. It's balls and tracks. I dig it. I think that's enough for episode 156. What do you think? Yeah, 156. Don's Pinball Podcast. You know where to reach me. Don's Pinball Podcast, gmail.com. Great way to do it. If you've ordered anything from me, I'm almost all the way caught up, and I have a whole new line of cool ideas that I want to bring out. If you've ordered a machine from me, they're in production. You're going to get them soon. I've got an X-Men coming. Metallica Premium is coming. Don's Pinball Podcast Edition. I think I'm going to call it Don Coe's Customs I'll go with that until I can think of something better Thank you for joining me for 34 minutes of freedom and celebration in the pinball hobby and I'm going to try to make coaster enthusiasts out of some pinball friends and I'm trying to make pinball friends out of my coaster friends too There's enough of a crossover, I think it can work Call me crazy all you want Check your mailbox for goodies coming at you Join the Patreon to be a bro patreon.com backslash Don's Pinball Podcast Peace out.