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Ep 115: Aliens vs Dinosaurs with Cary Hardy

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 13m·analyzed·Aug 17, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Cary Hardy discusses pinball restoration, his collection, and skepticism over Stern's experimental Venom game design.

Summary

In episode 115 of the LoserKid Pinball Podcast, hosts Josh Roop, Scott Larson, and Matt Scott interview Cary Hardy, a pinball content creator and restoration enthusiast. The conversation covers Hardy's path into pinball YouTube content, his personal collection of 10+ games, his award-winning restoration work (including a Grand Champion award for The Getaway), and detailed analysis of Stern's recently released Venom pinball machine, which Hardy views as a risky, unproven design direction that differs significantly from Keith Elwin's typical mode-based gameplay approach.

Key Claims

  • Jeremy Packer confirmed there are 18 more titles coming out next year from Stern

    high confidence · Josh Roop mentions this when discussing interview scheduling with Keith Elwin: 'Well, when Jeremy Packer confirmed that there's 18 more titles coming out next year from Stern, we figured we better stagger those out'

  • 75 percent of Stern's games are designed by Keith Elwin

    medium confidence · Cary Hardy speculates: 'Look at the Stern production schedule—75 percent of his games.' This is stated as speculation, not confirmed fact.

  • Venom is modeled similarly to Multimorphic P3 games with shots concentrated in the upper half/third of the playfield

    medium confidence · Cary Hardy analyzes: 'This could have been a Multimorphic P3 game because if you look at the shots, they're all upper half, upper third.'

  • Venom features XP/experience-based progression mechanics similar to online RPGs rather than traditional mode-based gameplay

    high confidence · Cary Hardy explains: 'You have the XP where it's more of a video game feel where if you you're a legend you can stand up and and speed run the game but for the most part you're going Tee'd Off be chipping away getting more experience'

  • Cary Hardy won the Grand Champion Best Show award at a major pinball show with his restored Getaway machine

    high confidence · Hardy recounts his emotional reaction to winning: 'When they did the whole reveal of who won, it was my heart just like dropped... it was just, I got over emotional and yeah, I might have cried a little bit'

  • Texas Pinball Festival hotel accommodations sold out in less than three minutes

    high confidence · Scott Larson states: 'I was unaware that the hotel came online and immediately sold out... in less than three minutes.'

  • Dwight Sullivan is handling the code for Venom and the game's success depends heavily on code quality

    high confidence · Cary Hardy asserts: 'This is going to be weighing on Dwight Sullivan's shoulders for this game because it's going to mainly depend on what he's going for it.'

Notable Quotes

  • “The mighty have fallen. You've got Keith Elwin on speed dial, and you get me on here to talk.”

    Cary Hardy @ ~2:00 — Hardy's self-deprecating humor about being the 'B slot' compared to Keith Elwin, who appears on the podcast every other week.

  • “I realized that I like playing video games, but I don't have a passion for it... I realized that when I was editing, I just don't want to do this. It seemed very forced... maybe I should try changing the content up... and that's pinball.”

    Cary Hardy @ ~4:30 — Hardy's origin story for pivoting to pinball content creation, explaining his transition from video game streaming.

  • “I like to see things go from bad to good. It's just something satisfying about it... Watching something that's dirty or non-functional, taking it, and making it look beautiful.”

    Cary Hardy @ ~12:00 — Explanation of Hardy's motivation and passion for pinball machine restoration work.

  • “There are very few times I've just cried over something. And that was one of those moments... right up there with the birth of my kids, sadly, but my kids more obviously.”

    Cary Hardy @ ~22:15 — Emotional recounting of winning the Grand Champion Best Show award, highlighting the significance of the achievement to Hardy personally.

  • “If you strip out Yeti's artwork, the playfield is not that packed. It really isn't. But with Yeti's artwork, it actually makes it feel more full... you do have Tee'd Off feel like you are getting your money's worth.”

    Cary Hardy @ ~38:00 — Technical analysis of Venom's visual design and how Jeremy Packer's artwork creates the impression of a busier playfield.

  • “This could have been a Multimorphic P3 game... if you look at the Venom play field and compare that Tee'd Off a Godzilla play field, you're going Tee'd Off wonder where the assets are.”

    Cary Hardy @ ~39:00 — Critical comparison suggesting Venom's playfield design is sparse compared to Stern's recent Keith Elwin designs like Godzilla.

  • “I typically have a pretty good feeling about certain games when they get released... My thoughts on Jurassic Park—it was one of those games. I remember watching the stream. I was like, 'This game is going to be great. This is an amazing game.'”

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonMatt ScottpersonCary HardypersonKeith ElwinpersonJeremy PackerpersonDwight Sullivanperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Jeremy Packer confirmed 18 upcoming titles from Stern for next year

    high · Josh Roop states: 'Well, when Jeremy Packer confirmed that there's 18 more titles coming out next year from Stern, we figured we better stagger those out because we usually have them on after a release or something like that.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Venom uses XP/experience-based progression and video game RPG mechanics rather than traditional mode-based pinball design

    high · Hardy explains the XP system where players chip away at experience and battles, contrasting with Keith Elwin's typical mode-based approach used in Godzilla

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Venom experiencing unexpectedly low community enthusiasm compared to typical new game releases

    medium · Hardy states: 'with venom the okay i don't know of one person who was super excited about this direction' and notes lack of community buzz from his typical feeler-put-outs

  • $

    market_signal: Texas Pinball Festival hotel sold out in under three minutes of availability

    high · Scott Larson: 'I was unaware that the hotel came online and immediately sold out... in less than three minutes. It's crazy.'

  • ?

    code_update: Stranger Things initially received poor reception but code updates significantly improved game and community perception

    high · Hardy reflects: 'when it first launched, I wasn't impressed with it. Now it's a highly sought-after game... Code evolved and made it better.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.219

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast it is episode 115 i am josh roop with me my co-host as always scott larson and scott it looks like a new game drop today if you want to buy this game who are you going to contact i would contact zach and nicole mini at flipping out pinball. Actually, I did talk to someone today and I said, Hey, did you know that this dropped? And he was unaware. And he said, I may have to swap out my premium for this. And so I actually did contact Zach. I'm like, Hey, you got any more of those things? And he said, yeah, we have a few. So I, I sent him the contact. He still has the standard distributor, but he has the backup with, with Zach and Nicole, if that, if his standard one doesn't work out. So let flipping out be not only your first choice but even your safety net when they're not your first exactly exactly hey just reach out you know play around play the field definitely exactly you're you're not married to your distributor come on i want to introduce our guests that we have on this evening this man and i've been talking for a few years now we we came became friends over an unlikely He's likely Situation Mates because Scott was ranting too much about a former company that no longer exists. A deep company. But a great guy, wonderful YouTube content, whether it's spicy and knocks your opinion across the room, or if it's just a great gentle reassurance of everything great going on in pinball. Man talking with us today is Kerry Hardy. How are you doing, Kerry? What's going on, guys? The mighty have fallen. You've got Keith Elwin on speed dial, and you get me on here to talk.
1:57
Well, Keith only interviews with us every other week. Every other week. You're kind of the B slot. Oh, okay. Well, when Zombie Yeti confirmed that there's 18 more titles coming out next year from Keith, we figured we better stagger those out because we usually have them on after a release or something like that. Yeah, who knows? Maybe you might have them on after most recent release today or something. That way. But what it seemed like Zombie was saying, look at the Stern production schedule and 75 percent of his games. Yeah, that's a possibility as well. Yeah.

  • Community reception to Venom has been lukewarm with very few people expressing genuine excitement about the game direction

    medium confidence · Cary Hardy observes: 'I don't usually and carrie you have a take on this in your video usually there's a lot of people you put feelers out... with venom the okay i don't know of one person who was super excited about this direction'

  • Stranger Things experienced a significant reversal in community perception after code updates and changed gameplay experience

    high confidence · Cary Hardy reflects: 'My thoughts on Stranger Things... at first, when it first launched, I wasn't impressed with it. Now it's a highly sought-after game, and my thoughts eventually did change on the game over a year ago at Pinball Expo.'

  • Cary Hardy's Riviera EM machine from the early 1970s was a home-use-only game with original documentation from that era

    high confidence · Hardy states: 'He had documentation of when they bought it. Really strip your back in the '70s, in the early '70s... Reviews from like '72, '73, somewhere on there.'

    • Cary Hardy @ ~32:00 — Hardy's self-assessment of his predictive ability regarding game success, establishing his track record on Jurassic Park and Godzilla.

  • “I haven't played Venom yet. But from looking at the gameplay stream and everything, it seems like a typical fun layout... It's going to mainly depend on what [Dwight Sullivan is] going for it on the code.”

    Cary Hardy @ ~33:30 — Hardy's early assessment of Venom based on streams, acknowledging code quality as the critical factor for the game's success.

  • “Well, they're gimmicks, right?... it's supposed Tee'd Off just – Jon Hey, here's like your – do you remember like the old video games where there was like an Easter egg and you ended up like playing Space Invaders in the middle of a game or something like that?”

    Cary Hardy @ ~42:30 — Hardy's critical view of video modes in pinball, comparing them to Easter eggs rather than integral gameplay features.

  • “I don't know what it is about this game. I just, I don't really have the urge Tee'd Off own one. Like, Venom's all right. Like, I'm not opposed Tee'd Off him. I know of a few people who are buying it.”

    Cary Hardy @ ~43:30 — Hardy's lukewarm personal response to Venom and observation that community interest appears minimal compared to typical new game releases.

    • Zach Sharpe
    person
    Nicoleperson
    Brian Eddyperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Multimorphiccompany
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Venomgame
    Godzillagame
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    The Getawaygame
    Foo Fightersgame
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Deadpoolgame
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    World Cup Soccergame
    LoserKid Pinball Podcastorganization
    ?

    design_innovation: Venom implements RPG-style experience point progression and online game mechanics in physical pinball

    medium · Hardy discusses 'the XP where it's more of a video game feel where you're chipping away getting more experience getting better at the battles and it's saving your progress'

  • ?

    product_concern: Venom's playfield layout is relatively sparse compared to recent Keith Elwin designs like Godzilla despite similar visual density from artwork

    medium · Hardy notes: 'if you look at the Venom play field and compare that to a Godzilla play field, you're going to wonder where the assets are... If you strip out Yeti's artwork, the playfield is not that packed.'

  • ?

    personality_signal: Cary Hardy demonstrates track record of accurately predicting game success based on gameplay streams

    medium · Hardy states: 'I typically have a pretty good feeling about certain games... My thoughts on Jurassic Park... Same thing with Godzilla... it's just reigned true'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Cary Hardy won Grand Champion Best Show award at major pinball show for Getaway restoration

    high · Hardy describes winning the award with significant emotional reaction: 'When they did the whole reveal of who won... I got over emotional and yeah, I might have cried a little bit'

  • ?

    content_signal: Keith Elwin appears on LoserKid Pinball Podcast approximately every other week

    high · Josh Roop states: 'Well, Keith only interviews with us every other week... Yeah, that's a possibility as well. Yeah.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Venom features accelerated ball play due to wire form ball return hoppers that release balls at inlanes faster than traditional games

    high · Hardy explains: 'he did that on the return back to the in-lanes... those balls release when they're coming down the wire forms or ball paths/guides on playfield. And so, yes, it's not your typical game. It will automatically play faster'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern's marketing of Venom did not emphasize the RPG/XP progression system which Hardy believes is the game's primary appeal differentiation

    medium · Hardy criticizes: 'they were selling it like a typical game... if you look at the Venom play field and compare that to a Godzilla play field, you're going to wonder where the assets are... But the bottom line is it's a different style game'

    • 2:30
    Well, the first question that we have before we get into the hubbub of Venom and and Jurassic Park 30th. Carrie, how did you even start out? Like what made you decide, hey, I'm going to do YouTube and start doing these videos and stuff?
    2:44
    Actually, I got started in doing streaming when it comes to like playing video games. I didn't do it live. It was pre-recording. Well, I did some live. I'm sorry. I did live stuff. I'd get one or two viewers, but you know how saturated that market is when it comes to people playing video games and people watching it. I started to put a little more effort into it, even doing thumbnails and pre-recordings and putting out a series of certain games, but I just wasn't happy with what I was doing. I realized, yeah, I like playing video games, but I don't have a passion for it. It's just something I do to kill some time if I have it. I realized that when I was editing, I just don't want to do this. It seemed very forced. I was like, well, maybe I should try changing the content up. Maybe I should do things related to what I am passionate about, and that's pinball. Since then, it's just seemed natural. It doesn't seem like work all the time, at least. There are certain times where it definitely is work, but I just kind of segued out of the video game recording and videos and basically created my own little video stuff for pinball content.
    3:54
    I've enjoyed it. Now I, I see seven games behind you. How many games do you have in your collection?
    4:00
    There's this seven and I've got two in the other room over here. It's Dr. Who and swords of fury. And then I've got another game in the dining room. Okay. And why did you select the games that you have? What do you have? What is your lineup? We got Last Action Hero.
    4:19
    It's one of those games that was one of the first. It was the first DMD game that I ever got. And I think now it's just a staple in the house. Not so much that I think that everybody should get it or anything or that it's an amazing game. It's just become a staple. It's like it almost seems like it's part of the family. I don't know.
    4:36
    The Getaway, that was one of those games that I played at a show. And then a buddy was telling me about how much he wanted it. And I ended up getting a pretty good deal for it. and it's kind of stuck around, and now it's a grand champion winner. So it's definitely going to be sticking around. I was going to say, it is award-winning. I remember you – I was going to get into that. You're actually – not only do you collect the games, but you also work on them. Yes. And make them a lot prettier than they used to be. Correct. We're going to circle back to that. Let's keep going with your line. World Cup Soccer was a surprise hit for me at a TPF show. It was one of those where there's a bunch of people there. I saw World Cup Soccer. No one was playing it. And I was like, well, I think I know why because it's soccer, you know, but I'll give it a shot. And I played it. Soccer sucks. And I was like, man, I really like this game. Is there anybody behind me? No. Sweet. I'm going to play another game. And then I played it a couple of more times. And then I played it as long as no one else is behind me waiting to get on. And then eventually I drugged the wife up with there. She fell in love with it. I found one somewhere around us, got it, and it'll never leave. The kids love it too much. I've got it as well in my collection. It was one of my first games. It is amazing. Yeah, it's one of those games that you don't think that you're going to like it because it's mainly the theme. Right, yeah. Then Tales of the Arabian Nights. That's my wife's game, even though I bought the damn thing. But it's there, and if I even mention selling it, she's like, no, shuts that down. It's not going to happen. I'm like, you never play it. It's either you or the game, Kerry. You or the game. But Tales of the Arabian Nights is here. Foo Fighters Premium is here. That's obviously – I played that at – whenever it was at the distro place, whenever it first got released. and I was like, yep, okay, I'll take it. Sold.
    6:18
    Jurassic Park Pro, played that at Expo whenever it got released. Loved it. So I was waiting to get a chance to get one of those. And so when I had my Turtles, this one came up for possible trade. And I was like, man, if I can trade my Turtles for this, I'm going to do it. And I propositioned him, and he was like, yeah, sure. And I was like, hell, yeah. So Jurassic Park is here. that shouldn't be leaving and Cactus Canyon remake standard edition and the Doctor Who Swords of Fury Doctor Who is mainly for the theme it's like uh we got really into Doctor Who years ago I don't want to nerd out on you guys for being a whovian and stuff like that but like uh that that game's in there eventually I want to get that one looking pretty and Swords of Fury was one of those games that we played at the show and just fell in love with it. I was like, something about this game. I think it was the music and just the layout was unique and stuff. I just really liked it. We played a really pretty one at Texas Pinball Festival and I was like, I've got to get one. And so I found one, got it, and yeah, so that's what it is right here. Basically playing them at shows and enjoying them and thinking that I would really like to have them in my collection. So then I had them. Which one's in the dining room? I don't know. Did you say which one was? I didn't say it was in the dining room. That's the Whirlwind. Okay. I'm borrowing that from a friend of mine. I'm doing the Total Chaos on that one. I still have to do the review. That's actually a work in progress. I hope to have that out pretty soon. Gotcha. Which one's in your bedroom? I don't have one in the bedroom yet. Guns and roses for the mood. If I get rid of the nightstand, I could sit right here. Seriously, I have thought about that. I know how you are, Carrie. With your Totan, my wife's like, I want a pinball machine that's never going to leave. And I'm like, well, which ones do you want? And she's like, Wizard or Voss. That's obviously the first one. I don't know if I want to have that much money tied up into one pinball machine that's never leaving. I mean, Wizard or Voss. And then the second option was Whirlwind. I'm like, that's better. And then when we ran to this Riviera, it's an EM. Oh, EM for like $500 to $1,000. Let's just do it.
    8:34
    It doesn't bother me. it sits there in the corner yeah played i don't think i have room for an em downstairs so does it have that em smell oh yes something about that i wish that was like a candle it's weird though because that is a home use only game as well i had documentation of when they bought it really strip your back in the yeah in the early 70s wow reviewers from like 72 73 somewhere on there. He said it was his uncle's and they just sat in the basement and they moved it to his house and they were stubbing their toes on it. So I was like, you're joking me.
    9:12
    It's a really nice condition. That's crazy. I don't know what that smell is, but something about it is in all the EMs that I've ever been inside and around, I'm like, I don't know what it is, but if somebody out there knows why they smell the way they do, then feel free to let me know. Does it make you smell as well? It's probably the lead-based paint. That's what it is. It's lead.
    9:33
    Yeah, asbestos. What is up with the coating on those wires for EMs, too? Like braided cloth or something. They don't trim like they do with plastic wire. Well, yeah, you're lucky also if you can even see that there's difference in the wires. A lot of the time they're so dirty you can't even tell that there's any kind of difference in them. You're like, well, I hope I'm going to the right place on this one. Yeah. I've seen some clean ones and I've seen some where I'm like, nope. Yeah, the one I picked up two weeks ago, Moulin Rouge from 1965. It's in rough condition. I'm pretty for sure a cat lived in it at one point. Ooh. Yeah. I've had to get a lot of cat hair out of the bottom of it. It's kind of weird. Okay. But it's working. It's up and working now. Ta-da. But even with a cat, did it still have the EM smell? It does. Wow. So it's stronger than cat urine. That's amazing. It is. I don't think the cat ever used the bathroom but it definitely slept in it I was like how? there's coils and relays everywhere you know what I'm saying? it is amazing that cats find ways of getting into any space we have two cats and we have a box and you open up the box and you turn around there's a cat in there we're off the rails cats involve machines I'm throwing a wrench in the cogs here you guys are going to be going back and forth and everything and I'm just going to throw you off topic. Hopefully not though. I would love to get into restorations, but I don't really have the time or the passion for it. So how did you find the time and the passion for this?
    11:07
    I like to see things go from bad to good. It's just something satisfying about it. Have you ever watched those like, they're actually titled like satisfying to watch videos where you watch something, it's something simple, but whatever reason you're just mesmerized by it. It's the same way with me watching something that's dirty or non-functional, taking it and making it look beautiful. There's just something really satisfying about that. And that's just something that's been within my system since I was a kid. I always like to take things apart and put them back together again just to see how they work. And I guess that's kind of pretty much what I do for a living now. And when it comes to pinball, it was one of those things where it's like, okay, I've got them. And then I had to learn how to work on them. And then I was like, well, I want this thing to look pretty as well. I want it to be able to be aesthetically pleasing to the eye because a lot of the ones that I got were not that. Whenever you pick them up, a lot of the ones that we do get do not look like that. So it's just part of the fun. The passion for it is just, you know, taking something that doesn't look pretty and making it look pretty and knowing that you can stand back and look at it and go, I made this or I did this kind of thing. You know, it's just, you know, gives me I don't know. It just feels good. I get you. So what made you decide to go all out on Getaway and make it just pristine and win an award? I didn't want to. That's the thing is that I think this one, for whatever reason, it just evolved into – because I had to go back on – because this one was probably the machine that took the longest due to partially COVID. But the other part is that I was struggling so far, so hard to get the play field that I was working on to do – I wanted it to be unique. And I still have that play field here, and I can show it to you later, but I removed every insert on that game. Every insert. And I changed it to clear inserts. And I was like, I'm going to be original. I'm going to be unique. Now, whether or not it's going to look good, I have no idea. I was like, it could look horrible, and this could just be a complete mistake, and that's still yet to be seen. But I struggled so long and hard on getting the water slide decals to look good on the – it just wasn't – I'm very picky. So when I'm seeing certain things, I just was not happy with the work I was going. I had to do a lot of sanding and re-clear coating, and it just was not – I essentially gave up. And now that play field basically hangs in my garage as like a trophy of just failure in a way. Just like this is what you started, but you couldn't finish it. So it's there on the wall and it's like, this is what you started. You didn't finish it. So I eventually just bought a new play field and I was like, you know what? I want I really wanted the the grand champion best show award because like every year I would bring a game and I would think it would be good enough to win an award of some sort. I was like, I was like, I just want I really want that. Just something about that award. I would really like to do it. I have a feeling that I have the capabilities and like every year I would see other people's work. And I would know I have to step up my game because it's I mean, just, you know, making it look pretty is just not enough these days. And every year it's gotten more challenging and more challenging. The competition is getting harder and harder because people are getting into the games that have a lot more skill than I do. And as well as just knowing people that have the ability to assist you in making certain things, fabricating stuff. So for Getaway, it was just one of those where I'm like, this is it. I'm putting all my, you know, everything in one thing right here. Hopefully it's going to turn out to be the way it's going to give me that award kind of thing. So I had my fingers crossed. I was aiming for best 90s. I was like, I've got to win at least best 90s. I was like, I don't think I'm going to win best restoration because technically I didn't restore it. It's a new play field. So I was like, okay, I don't see best restoration. But if I can get best 90s, that's my goal. At least be acknowledged kind of thing. And so as they're going through all the awards and for anybody that's seen the video footage and everything of me receiving that award, like, yes, I did get emotional on it because it really meant a lot to me because there's a lot of work involved. And the competition was my friends at that, too. So as they're giving out the awards, they pass up my game for best 90s and everything. I'm like, man, I'm sitting here doubting myself. What is it that I missed? Is there something that just wasn't good? you know and then as they're calling out the games it gets to the grand champion and i'm like this it might be me or it could be this other guy because we all walk around and check out everybody's games and we're always looking at the competition and we kind of got kind of look at it ourselves even though we're not the official judges we know the judges are going to see certain things and we're going to go okay well we don't have to worry about this game because this game's got this issue or whatever so i knew that there was a possibility of one other game that might beat me. So I wasn't like confident that I was going to win kind of thing. So when they did the whole reveal of who won, it was my heart just like dropped. I was like, oh my gosh, it was me. And it was just, I got over, over emotional and yeah, I might've cried a little bit, but yeah, it was a very big moment. It was right up there with the birth of my kids, sadly, but my kids more obviously, but I just, there are very few times I've just, you know, cried over something. And that was one of those moments. Okay. But have any of your kids won best in show? Not yet. Yeah. So they need to step it up.
    16:38
    Look at what the other kids are doing. Come on, come on. Well, okay. That's awesome. Do you have a project you're currently working on or do you have one of those titles you're looking for to restore? I need to work on Earthshaker. That's the next one I want to do. I want to try to go for maybe best 80s. It's like from now, it's like I just kind of want to get every award.
    17:00
    It's like I'm not aiming for best of show. Now I'm just kind of want I want best 80s. I want best 70s. I want, you know, best 90s. I kind of want to get that. I was hoping to get best 90s on my Johnny the Monic. I got runner up.
    17:12
    So I was like, OK, maybe I'll play around with the 80s. So I'm going to try to get a Earthshaker hopefully done by TPF. We'll see. I just got to get started on the damn thing. It's out there in the garage right now.
    17:24
    Those are good games. Well, cool. Is there anything else you want to share with us before we move on to some of the news? Do you have any other questions, Scott?
    17:35
    Well, speaking of Texas, I was unaware that the hotel came online and immediately sold out. Yeah. In less than three minutes. It's crazy. So, yeah. So, I don't know. I'm looking at alternative housing for that. but there's all kinds of hotels all around that you can get, but it just, it's just for me, it's just like, it's just easier to have everything right there in one hotel and stuff. And happy hour is always a plus too. No, it's always good.
    18:06
    So Scott, you kind of talked about this before we started recording, but you wanted to get kind of Carrie thoughts on Venom now that it been a couple of weeks It been cooking for a while This is the second major release for the year from Stern the first one being Foo Fighters which you own
    18:24
    Now, if you want to, go check out Kerry's videos because Kerry goes through and breaks down what his thoughts are on the gameplay, but also on the interest level. And I'm wondering if the interest level has changed at all since you did that video about three weeks ago.
    18:45
    And it's one of those things where this is not something that I pride myself on. I consider myself to be very humble, honestly. But I typically have a pretty good feeling about certain games when they get released, and I can see gameplay. And I can kind of get a good feeling if this is something that I'm going to like. the majority of people are going to like it and stuff like that. And it's just kind of reigned true. My thoughts on Jurassic Park. It was one of those games I remember watching the stream. I was like, this game is going to be great. This is an amazing game. Same thing with Godzilla and stuff like that. It's just like certain games really just call out to me. There's just something about it. I can tell that they're going to do well. And I have yet to play Venom. But by looking at the gameplay stream and everything, it seems like a typical fan layout. I mean, and that's one of those things where I think what's going to stand out about this game is the code. This is going to be it's a lot. It's going to be weighing on Dwight's shoulders for this game because it's going to mainly depend on what he's got going for it. Yeah, because everything else is going to be your standard shoot here, shoot here. Yes, the game changes. I think the premium is obviously the way to go if you want to get this game, unless you just really want to experience the RP aspect in pinball, which I'm totally on board for. I think what he's wanting to do and bring into pinball, like bring it on. Okay, that's cool. I know people have their concerns and kind of iffy feelings about it, but I still feel that layout-wise, I mean, okay. It's a proven layout. Yeah, right? Brian Eddy is the king of fans. He has Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness, and he has Stranger Things. They're all excellent fan layouts, so you can design those nicely. Yeah, I just think that it's still going to come down to code on this one, And I won't get to really experience that until I get around to playing it. I know a lot of people that have played it comment like I knew they would. The most top used word is fast. I'm like, yeah, the game, yeah, it's fast. I mean, it's pretty obvious. Anybody watching it or played it, that was their top word to use was it's fast. It's fast. Well, he did that on the return back to the in lanes. So, you know, those ball hoppers that he has on both sides, it cuts off split seconds because those balls release when they're coming down the habit trails. And so, yes, it's not your typical game. It will automatically play faster just because you're feeding balls lower on the play field. And I think that's going to be a learning aspect for a lot of players out there is that, you know, a lot of the times it's kind of like baseball. Keep your eye on the ball. So whenever you hit a ball up with the particular 180 scoop shot, the 180 turnaround, you're watching that as it's going to feed to the next wire form. And you're expecting that eventually reach your flipper. But while you may be keeping your eye on that ball, one's already shot out and you've missed your shot. So I think it's going to be a learning curve for a lot of people and probably including myself, because I know like on Halloween and the Scooby games, those elevators that drop the ball back into the end lane. I'd miss that every time. Every time. I'm just like, man, I can never remember, even though there's a particular sound, a little bit of a light cue on there. But I just – it was – I never could get it down. Yeah. No, I totally get you. But I think the game is definitely going to be highly dependent on the code. It's the same way with Stranger Things. At first, when it first launched, I wasn't impressed with it. Now it's a highly sought-after game, and my thoughts eventually did change on the game over a year ago at Expo. I was like, man, when the lights turned down, I got more into the game. I think the atmosphere of which you play that game is really what makes it stand out. I mean, like, yeah, I still couldn't get the ball into the Demogorgon's mouth, but at least they updated it to where it's basically got HP and you can knock it down and kill it that way. So that helped. Code evolved and made it better. Yeah. Same with Deadpool, you know, Deadpool. Yeah, Deadpool was kind of flat when it was released, but it's one of the it's it's one of those games that I know. if I have 10 minutes, I can go down and still have a good time. I may not crush it, but I can still have a good time, and I know I'm not going to be chopping wood at it. It's a fast game. But the way they did the code, it is fun. I want a Deadpool for sure, and there's one here at the Family Center, and I played it just recently, and the switch on the scoop is broken. So if you want to play a Deadpool that's not fun, break the scoop switch and see how much fun you have that's where everything happens and yeah the scoop every fifth shot so i'm sitting there waiting for me to do something it's got to do a ball search and then eventually it shoots out again but i was like well i'm killing time while i'm waiting for my wife to finish on the coin pusher machine so whatever so yeah yikes we had a lord of the rings like that here and it was the uh the sword lock was broken it wasn't registering for the two towers multiball. So it was like you couldn't do the easy multiballs to get into weren't easy because they weren't working. It's annoying when that stuff happens. So Josh just went straight for Valinor. You can't go to Valinor without you've got to complete two towers though. Okay, well, alright.
    23:59
    I wish I could go straight to Valinor, but no. Back to Venom, before we go off too much of a tangent. Like I said, the game, visually, aesthetically-wise, Yeti did great on the art. This is like – it's one of those things people said a lot too is that it looks busy on the play field because he did a lot of characters. He packs it.
    24:18
    Well, Deadpool is the same way. If you strip out Yeti's artwork, the play field is not that packed. It really isn't. But with Yeti's artwork, it actually makes it feel more full. And I'm not saying you have to have more on the play field because obviously you don't to have a great game. But you do have to feel like you are getting your money's worth.
    24:46
    I've said it before. Venom is a big risk for Stern because they're doing a couple of things simultaneously. One, this game is something that – and I don't want this to sound demeaning or insulting. This could have been a P3 game because if you look at the shots, they're all upper half, upper third. And yeah, you can do the things hanging down off the side. So it feels very similar to that style of game. I know there's more to it, and so don't take it too far. but then you also have the xp where it's more of a video game feel where if you yeah if you're a legend you can stand up and and speed run the game but for the most part you're going to be chipping away getting more experience getting better at the battles and it's it's saving your progress that's the challenge though is that if you're i was disappointed that they didn't play that more in Stern's reveal and in their review, that should have been a focus to say, hey, this is for you guys who are the online role-playing games, the video games that where you're building up experience. This is your game and this is why you should consider this game. But they were selling it like a typical game. Yeah. And that's really where you're going to fail because if you look at the Venom play field and compare that to a Godzilla play field, you're going to wonder where the assets are. Yeah. But the bottom line is it's a different style game.
    26:30
    So that's just the visual inspection. I'm not saying the whole game experience, but you're going to make those comparisons. Yeah. Well, what made me chuckle too is, don't get me wrong, I love a good video mode, but when they were touting this as the best video mode, if not the very top five, I don't like the video mode. I just – it's – I don't know. It's been done before. It's werewolves on Dracula. It's – I don't know.
    27:01
    It's very old to say that. Well, they're gimmicks, right? I mean it's supposed to just – hey, here's like your – do you remember like the old video games where there was like an Easter egg and you ended up like playing Space Invaders in the middle of a game or something like that? Yeah. It would take you to a completely side game and you play that and then it jumps you back to the game. That's what video modes seem to me.
    27:26
    It's like, okay, this is a fun distraction. I guess you could say a little bit like Black Rose. They have those mini video modes where you're throwing the knife or whatever. Jumping to the ship or you're swimming out of the water. See, but I like those ones. I just, I guess, I mean, it's not as bad as theater or magic playing pinball inside a pinball. Right.
    27:51
    But it just, I don't know. I think overall, Venom, I don't know what it is about this game. I just, I don't really have the urge to own one. Like, Venom's all right. Like, I'm not opposed to him. I know of a few people who are buying it. That's good. Because I don't know anyone. A few. but i don't usually and carrie you got on this in your video usually there's a lot of people you put feelers out hey the new game's coming out who's in and you usually get like the handful of people the people who buy buy a lot of them and the people who it's like their dream theme and you get at least some buzz from like 40 to 50 of the people with venom the okay i don't know of one person who was super excited about this direction now that again this is a new direction it's unproven people haven't played it yet to really experience it it could be uh you know it could be the best thing that happened pinball in 20 years well i think the other part too is i don't know listening to dwight they've really been pushing that it's not a mode-based game either right i i don't know if that turns people off as well like i like my world cup soccer it's not a mode-based game it isn't but well elwyn's games are all mode-based games okay i mean think of godzilla like that you're you're just playing in the city and then you are like this but but what i'm saying is that there are okay i'm taking this path and then i'm taking this path and i'm taking this path it's uh and people that's obviously been a successful formula because he's responsible for at least 50 of stern's production right now i'm like it's the i think a big chunk of it is definitely the theme like pinball is already niche as it is and so now you're dabbling into a niche theme inside of a niche hobby and like a buddy of mine best friend since kindergarten kind of thing loves venom i showed him this machine he's like this is the only game that you've ever showed me that i want like you this game looks awesome he's like he's like he's like i want it and i told him the price and he was like oh no yeah like i like not gonna happen well you and you touched on that and i it seems to me that i know i know they're selling him and this is a fan talking this is not a business person talking but we have pushed past my comfort level for like i was an le buyer all the time yeah and then four years ago four years ago yeah i i got i okay we're coming up on it but i got jurassic park le i got uh avengers le like the uh the The Elwynn one. Okay. That's the last LE I've. Okay. No, I bought Rush LE also. But I have a feeling that Rush is my last LE. Because the price point has got. Has approached an uncomfortable level. Where it's hard for me to commit that much. On a game that I'm not all in on. And that's the reason why I went all in on Rush. Because I follow. You know, like Tom Graff and I have followed Rush our entire lives. So. but but that brings up a good point i mean we can i don't know if we're done with venom or not but segueing into drastic park 30th sure the original le came out at nine thousand dollars that was four years ago and now we have jp 30th anniversary it's at thirteen thousand dollars which is in line with other le's it is but that's a four thousand and it's a fifty percent increase in four years. Yeah. And that's substantial.
    31:43
    And so is that, if every year you're going to the movies and you're paying 10 bucks a ticket and then you're paying 12 bucks a ticket, then you're paying 14 bucks a ticket, then you're paying 16 bucks, eventually you're going to say, I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze. Yeah. and eventually people are going to say well maybe i'm not going to buy this game and that was kind of my point with bond with bond with the gomez bond is that i looked at that and i said okay this looks like a fun game but is it worth that price point for me and it wasn't so i i passed on that game and i'm in line to get my foo fighters but i i still pushed it off to to the next uh next shipment cycle because again i'm still in that mode of okay what is my what is my comfort level in spending for games yeah it it feels to me that everybody's in a similar vibe where we love pinball we love the machines but is it are we getting to that point where people are turning away i think it's definitely going to be highly dependent on how like your love for the theme and it's just going to be something i think that people are going to be like is this something that i want to put in my house instead of it just being another item on the shelf that you can just throw inside your house it's just going to require a lot or people to be more conscious of their spendings and everything because of the price point.
    33:30
    I think the other thing that's really, at least for me, that's played into it, I don't like moving these machines if I don't have to. I've already went through that phase. I went through like 50 machines in three years. You know what I'm saying? Because I wanted to play them all. And the other thing is too is like I don't want to spend the money on this game. Two years ago, I could buy a game, and if I didn't love it, I could move it pretty quick. and it was even to the point people were willing to make the 180 mile drive to come out to my house yeah to pick it up and i would have multiple offers in less than three days now people are waiting weeks if not months to sell pinball machine right and they're taking a substantial hit on the used market so it's like well do i really want you know before it was like i i don't mind buying this game because if i don't like it i'll move it now it's like if i don't like this game i could be stuck with it for a while right how much of a hit are you willing to take because before now i i will say the last the ride that we've had over the last four years is unrealistic yeah it was fueled by a couple things excellent games okay we're not going to discount that they had they they've had an amazing run the last five years of stern and and other manufacturers but we know that stern drives the bus right the last five years have been excellent games couple that with people not being able to pay for vacations for their kids not being able to to go you know take their significant other on a on a vacation they're like well what can we do so they bought these things to put in their in their home and so it artificially bumped the demand for it yeah and we are going through now the post honeymoon hangover where people say okay i already bought the game i want to go to maui again yeah i mean we're probably still in the refraction period of like the giant load that was first in march yeah i mean when you had an overload of games that just came out at one time and it was just like over saturation of the market from different manufacturers. Yeah. And so we're, I think we're still in a way kind of recovering from that. Well, okay. Of those five games that came out,
    35:46
    I was only five that I can remember. No, I will say that. Okay. I'm going to throw pulp fiction out there because we're not going to see pulp fiction for a while. Like we've seen the videos and that looks like it's very, the buzz is still there for that. If you keep your fingers crossed, it should be October. There you go. Hopefully we'll see you at Expo. Yeah, but all the other games, the only one that Josh, you, and Carrie, you, is Foo Fighters. Of all those games that were released, and even Foo Fighters, if you want a Foo Fighters, you can get one right now.
    36:26
    There really no wait The only game that I heard that it hard to still get your hands on is Godzilla premium new inbox Those still are selling like hotcakes But other than that pretty much if you want a game, you can call it. It's basically Godzilla and Deadpool seem to be. Yeah. But Deadpool isn't getting, it's getting made like once a year. Right. And the supply isn't huge on it. So that makes sense.
    36:49
    I don't know. Well, the other question I have to, you know, speaking of, you know, now we have a release Jurassic park 30th. Do you feel like this cuts out the knees of Venom? Because this is another game release. I mean, is this Stern competing with itself on sales at this point? I'll go last on this one. I want to hear your takes, both of you.
    37:09
    I don't think it's going to hurt or help Venom at all, actually. You're only going to be getting 500 of these in the first place, and I don't even know if the demand is going to be there for this. I mean, for me, I mean, I guess we can just get our takes on the game in general is that, I mean, I look at it and I'm just like, okay, it's Jurassic Park. It's just, you know, a horse of a different color. I mean, eventually when I do my video talking about this, I'll be sure to meme that and stuff. But, I mean, it's the game that we've already played. We know how it plays. The game is in a way readily available on the secondhand market as well as dealers, I'm sure, still have them. But it's just prettier. I mean, if I ask you guys, you know, when the game was initially released, what was probably, I guess, the least attractive part of Jurassic Park to you? probably the artwork yeah people were okay i will also be in the camp to say i thought the artwork was was fine it was definitely in the it gets the job done it's nice it is not a wow art package but i thought it was good enough yeah but like the art for a lot of us was the weak point like oh man you know it sucks that we didn't get movie assets okay but at least we got the theme song but the art is probably the weak spot on this game in its entirety kind of thing and so when i look at this 30th, I'm like, well, it's my favorite art package. I mean, I think this one looks better when it comes to the artwork on it and everything. I agree. I think okay, so the thing is, I've heard from distributors and different dealers from a handful of them, and I'm hearing that from some of them, this is moving better than Venom. I'm hearing that some of them, they're moving about the same i think it's one of those things that when venom was shown i think whoever had extra money and said no they'd already spent the money at that point i don't know if this really cuts out the knees of venom i think they're like like carrie was saying it's it's kind of like they're two separate things we're it it's a product that's already been on the market for four years now so it's it's hard to compete with a game that came out brand new just three weeks ago but I don't know I can also see too that like I said I've talked to a handful of distributors and they said this is just blowing Venom out of the water and it's in more sales for them today than Venom did on day one too so I don't know I it's hard to tell it's hard to tell because like you're saying it's such a niche theme Venom's such a weird theme and Jurassic Park is so beloved right now right like I don't know many people that play that game are like that just is terrible it's it's the perfect beginner game a novice game and I think if you really love this game this art package really puts it over the top for it the the the red the the iconic scene with the raptors attacking the t-rex I I think it's it's a great it was a great finish to a great game especially She won the art package, which was the, like you said, the weakest part, which even in that point, I felt like it was a 7 out of 10, if not a little bit more. It's not like it was terrible. It's not like we're talking back to the future from day one. Yeah. And granted, guys, we still haven't got all the details for this game yet. The full details should be released tomorrow. So I don't even know if Johnny Crap is still doing the art for the 30th or not. It still looks a little bit like the style of it. Maybe, yeah. It could be a toss-up. The play feels the same. It feels the same. There's the reskin on the back glass and then the art package on the cabinet. But my main thing, and Scott's the guy that we need to listen to on this because I want to get feedback from current limited edition owners. And how this affects your mindset and how does this even affect you at all? do you feel that another limited edition game is coming out that's basically another lead i mean does it affect you financially or like i mean how does it make you feel scott so let us know well i'm going to take the first question that josh asked and um i will say this obviously has to affect venom on some level because if you have a game that's coming out in 500 games selling at $13,000, that will take money out of the market. That will take gas out of the tank. Okay. However, I don't think anybody is dropping their venom order to buy this. So I know that's, that may be a nuance, but I'm saying this doesn't help venom, but I'm not sure this affects Venom as much as we think it will. Yeah. But because if Venom were the only game, then people would buy it. But there are alternatives out there, including Foo Fighters. Okay.
    42:27
    This is a dangerous road for Stern to walk down because this is what JJP went down. Wizard of Oz. Well, yes. Wizard of Oz. I have a ruby red Wizard of Oz. I got the Ruby Red Edition, okay? Then with The Hobbit, they had the LE. And then they had the Smog Edition. And then they had the Black Arrow Edition, okay? And I know that there were people who that matters to them to say, there is a limited quantity of this game. And it's the same reason why some of those really limited edition, And like Spooky, that was their hallmark. We are limiting it to a certain amount of games. And so people, if they wanted America's Most Haunted, they're like, I need to get it now because there's only so many of them. OK, it's it's a forced scarcity.
    43:30
    The market this hurts the most for is the premium owners already, because what's going to happen is if you are interested in. And one of the guys I know is interested in this. He's like, I think I'm going to upgrade my premium. And so he's willing to sell his premium to buy this. And so I doubt there will be too many of these new buyers who are buying this game. It's probably existing customers that have a premium who are willing to sell their premium to upgrade to this one. so you're going to see a big flood of the market and at least 200 premiums are going to change hands of this and supply and demand, right? if you have 200 premiums moving over the next 4 or 5 months you're going to take more of a hit on your games so in the past when it was hot you could buy a game and you could sell it a month later for probably more because of scarcity, but you weren't losing a ton of money on it. Now you're getting back to the used car market where you should expect to take a $500 to $800 hit when you're selling your new game.
    44:56
    So, I mean, as a limited edition owner, do you feel anything from this? Well, I actually – I like the green look. so the the green look and the insider connectivity i actually didn't take out the insert i put it in the coin door so i bought the insider connected and i put in the coin door so i can still scan you know i can scan or play home play or when it like that so i feel that my edition is basically the same as this one so personally it doesn't matter to me i also like if you're going to make something that is the best version of what you are offering, then I'm of the opinion you should at least have enough of those for demand to meet it. And Stern hasn't been doing that recently, I would say, until Venom, because there was this forced scarcity. People would buy an LE and then they'd try to flip it for another thousand dollars, right? But Venom is not doing that. this okay so you are making it i'm not one of those people who really care too much about being one of 500 if that's the vert if if my version is the best version i want everybody to be able to get it but there are exclusives to le's like you can't get their their art blades like the le art blades you can't put them in unless you're willing to go to like a third party to make a similar one And so there are people who are like, no, I want to be part of the 500. So that is dangerous because it will affect future LE sales from the market that cares about the exclusivity.
    46:44
    And it's one of those things that we don't know yet, but for all we know, the 30th anniversary edition may have another code tweak to it that only the 30th anniversary might have. That would piss me off. Yeah. Okay, if you're looking at, if you're saying what would make me angry about a game is if they released a cosmetic different version of the game, but they also cut me out. So my LE, my original LE is no longer the best version available or a best version available.
    47:21
    So yes, that would be crossing the line for me. well and it makes you wonder if this will help i don't know if it'll hinder the price because looking on uh jurassic jurassicpark.com pin side it looks like this game if this is right anywhere from 14.5 to 16 i mean they're selling from 12.5 to to someone they're mostly around 12.5 to 13 right i i just i don't think this really hurts the price if anything if i was an le owner and I bought it at nine grand four years ago. I'd be quite pleased as punch because like Scott was saying, a 45 to 50% increase over four years, that's a pretty good return on investment. Okay. But what about if they released iron maiden number of the beast? I wouldn't bother me either. Okay. But the people who have the LE version that is currently worth, you know, the around that price, it will actually affect their value. And so there will be a subgroup that it does affect. So do you think this will still affect the original J.P. Ellie owners? Yes. Like price wise. Yeah, absolutely. This shaved at least a thousand dollars off the value of my game.
    48:40
    You think? Yeah, I do. Because at one point, my game was going for eighteen thousand dollars. That's yeah. Right. It's crazy. And it's the same thing as medieval madness. Right. So we saw this. medieval madness was that grail pen that no one could get and then they remade it and all the original ones there are people who still want the original i'm not one of those guys because i don't really like working on games and so i i was grateful to get the the re-release version of it but i bought it for eight thousand dollars i didn't buy it for eighteen thousand dollars yeah and same with cactus canyon carrie would you have bought that cactus canyon for eighteen thousand dollars no yeah but and and the re-release of cactus canyon is better than the original version significantly updated hardware boards don't have to service it i have yet to pull the blade field on this and and i would say my medieval madness is it's not the royal edition but it's basically the royal edition because i bought the standard then i bought the light kit i bought the topper and I bought, oh, whatever, um, all the stuff. Uh, so the only thing it doesn't have is powder coating, but I, ironically, I like the way mine plays a little better than my friend's. That's a Royal edition, but absolutely. When you, when you do release a new skin of something, it does affect the value. So if that's a big deal to you and you're a collector that is using pins as a money bank, so to speak, I can put money in this and take it out when I sell it, your value just decreased. Yeah. So how will that affect future LEs? I think you're going to see this cool the market just a little bit because people will say, oh, well, if I'm buying an LE, it may not be worth more than what I'm paying for. Yeah. I don't know. It's going to be interesting. I guess if you bought this as an investment or your old LE, I still think you'd come out ahead. But overall, I just don't see it as a lose-lose at this point.
    50:53
    No, they're going to make a grundle of money. Anytime you can sell an LE, you're making more money per unit. That's the reason why Stern does it. Yeah. Right? their profit margin on an LE is higher. So you're getting 500 of those.
    51:14
    This isn't an Elvira. How many Elvira 40s were there? Like 199 or something? Yeah, 199. And there's 500 of these. There's like only 50 of the SLEs of the Elvira. Yeah, they should have cut off little pieces of the T-Rex from the movie and stuck it in the game. they should put the uh what the tri the triceratops the sick one that was uh oh yeah yeah that's a big pile of poop yeah i should have been in the game just paid for that line but that's the main thing is that i think a lot of people that are going to get this are ones that just want the best of the best they want that status and if that's something that they look at me personally i don't care about that i mean i got the game essentially back here it's just a pro but i mean i still get the layout and the experience of jurassic park i mean it's still a great game i would love to have a premium but the pro plays plenty great for me pro plays great and uh one thing i still need to do i forgot to do that i needed to show my daughter that trailer for jurassic park and get her reaction to it darn it oh well i yeah it was officially released and then i'll show her that one Now, here's the question I do have for you guys is I want to know first off for the audience people. Same thing. I already told you my take on the LE. I like my LE. It's fine. I'm okay with the value coming down a little bit because I thought it was kind of overvalued anyway. But I'm wondering if that was a big deal for you and if that will affect your LE investing in the future. So that's one thing. Two, we haven't even talked about this game as in what do you like it? Like, is this a smart move for Stern? Do you like it? And what do you like different or compare and contrast? This is like the high school essay, right? Compare and contrast this version versus previous version. Because this isn't a vault version. Like, they didn't go in and fix anything. They basically put a car wrap on it and sold it.
    53:30
    So when you say high school, do you want like an introduction with a three-page or three-paragraph? Yeah, exactly. With a conclusion. Don't use chat GPT or whatever it is. All right. Double space. Use margins.
    53:44
    Sorry, Gary. I didn't mean to cut you off. Show me your thesis. Yeah. I mean, essentially the only thing I like about it better is the artwork. I mean, I looked at the art package and I compared it to the other previous tiers. And I was like, the premium used to be my favorite art package. I was like, man, I have a thing for orange. I really like orange. And so now this new one is coming out. I'm like, there's more orange on this one. And the color is just, I like it better. But I mean, that's all it's got to offer me is just that this one looks different. I'm like, well, I don't care. I mean, I've got the game right here kind of thing, but if you want to go out and get you a game that looks different and has a little plaque on there that tells you this is number of 500 and makes you feel good. Okay. Do you know what's interesting? I just noticed is they also powder coated the hinges on the back box. I didn't notice that.
    54:36
    There are a lot of them don't have that. Like even the LEs they don they not powder coated I don know if that a big deal That something I didn catch I like the iconic scene Honestly, if I could just buy the Translight for this, I'd be super happy with that. This is by far my favorite looking art package. There are ways of getting a printed back glass of whichever version you want. You typically have to go outside the U.S. for it, but you can find that. And that's the thing is that with this, especially since it's just aesthetics that have been changed. Right. Everybody can get the powder coating done. There's no there's no restrictions. Anybody. I guarantee you that people are probably powder coating at this color right now on their machine. Like I want that color. And as far as the art goes, if you know the right person and you can get easily Photoshop 30th anniversary. I mean, people can do this aesthetically-wise, and that's all that's being changed. Yeah. Honestly, I'm kind of with you, Kerry. I'd rather have the Pro.
    55:47
    Okay, I love the Premium. It's fun. The Premium LE playfield. I'm also a sucker for the Art Blades. Like, they did a good job on the Art Blades, and I shouldn't be superficial enough to say that that was part of my decision on getting the LEs because I like the Art Blades inside that were exclusive to the LE.
    56:12
    So I thought that was nice. But I'm glad there are going to be more people who experience this game in the best version available.
    56:23
    Yeah. I agree. Here's a, I don't know, this might be a make or break for me and a lot of other people, but I'm seeing a signature on that left portion of the apron. Is that Keith's or is that the new CEO's? That's Keith's. Okay. You know better than me. No, you can see. Keith's looks like a drunk W.
    56:45
    Scott knows because when Keith signed his chest, he went and got it tattooed. Exactly. Yeah. It was my butt cheek. So, yeah, I forgot. You want left cheek or right cheek? How about right in the middle? Yeah. Oh, wow.
    56:58
    How do you feel about a signature tramp stamp? what does it say all aboard yeah welcome aboard so yeah i okay so my take is i i think it's unfortunate that this came shortly after venom was released because i think the venom didn't get enough oxygen to really fuel the fire now it could be a slow burn once people start playing it it could circle around but people are talking about this and asking about this one and i talked to my to my neighbor who's a very small local distributor and when venom came out he's like i haven't had one call yeah and i asked him about this one he's like i'm sold out like i already have my small allotment already already spoken for and i think you're right it's it's it's just like bond right we called this when bond came out yeah it's going to be a slow burn and people now that they're getting that new code and they're getting their hands on the new code people are really enjoying the bond and buying it and i know that you know they've pushed it back and pushed it back what now it's in 2024 like late 2024 but there's actually a small demand for bond right now where there wasn't four months ago or three So I wonder if, you know, Venom is a similar situation where, you know, after Expo and after Crystal. The key though, I wonder if there's going to be enough people being able to play it to develop a, you know, when you're starting a fire, you use kindling, right? To start that ignition source so you can develop the good coals. I don't know if there's going to be enough of these on location to really experience it. Well, that's the problem too. I mean, Stern's moving here in a couple weeks. And they said they're not going to start building these until after the move. Yeah. So that's even more time off the table. Where they're shipping Jurassic Park today. Yeah. You can get your hands on an LE by the end of the week. Well, May next week. But still, I mean, that really helps the case of Jurassic Park versus Venom as well. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things. If you get this Jurassic Park 30th, you already know that you're getting a good game. It's been well established by the people in the hobby and pinball enthusiasts, including myself, that Jurassic Park is a damn good game. If you just want a particular special version of it, then you've got one now. Yeah. But anybody with some money can make it look just like it. Yeah. This is my shiny. they got a real close-up picture of their special plaque too i know people i can make another one of those so oh by the way did you remember the insider connected uh tattoo someone had hey yeah i copied that out it works it's like man oh okay so you guys both uh carrie you own a pro josh you owned a pro you saw this game was there anything that made you want to buy it buy the LE that came out today no I would like to own it not for $13,000 that's where we're at it's like I'd rather have two pros for the price of an LE so that's where I'm at on it too it's pretty well i know it's a good game but just that i'm not giving you 13 000 for it however i i have said this before is i i need to constantly remind myself that i'm not the entire demographic that buys games you know so i i am i would say i'm i'm probably in the solid pro sometimes le collector market but there are those collectors out there who they will buy every le out there and so i'm wondering if though like i think there will be people who will upgrade from their premium to this i wonder if anyone's going to upgrade their le to this le probably because they like you said their le that their old one they could probably get easily trade in value for what this thing is yeah you could probably get equal value yeah well i want to i want to pivot really quickly I don't know how well you guys can see me, but I got, you put your shirt back on and my shirt is on. I got a birthday present. My birthday was a couple of weeks ago and them knowing that I enjoy, I'm not going to say who it was cause I don't want them to feel bad. Okay. I got a gift of, Ooh, pinball. It's, it's from hobby lobby, but I was just there and they did not have anything pinball related. They had arcade signs. I was waiting for my new tires to get put on my car. I was like, I'll go to Hobby Lobby. I didn't see anything pinball related. This thing drives me nuts. Let me turn it right. The flippers are... You've got flippers on your slings. Yeah.
    62:26
    Look at this. You plunge the ball and it goes directly into this. That means it's just going to... It's obviously designed by someone who does not play pinball. However, I'm going to break it to you. This was actually one of J-Pop's unreleased play fields.
    62:46
    I remember seeing this layout actually. This was Fire and Brimstone. I was wondering why it looked so familiar. That's what he was working on at Deep Root. They must have sold it. Yeah. And you got to, you know, obviously you got to put Pinball Wizard in. Okay. Yeah. By the way. I sadly got Pinball Wizard up here. That is fantastic, actually. There are so many things I love about this just because it is wildly – it is by far the worst pinball layout I've ever seen. Yes, by far. It makes Spinal Tap look like Game of the Year.
    63:24
    Does that sign also go to 11? Yeah. It does actually. It's just so weird. like like the the drop targets i'm assuming these are stand-ups or something they look like little buttons and you got to put arrows pointing directly at you hit here it just i don't it just it's funny i see it and i'm just like they're like do you love it i'm like yes okay yeah you need to embrace the awesomely like the awesomely non-pinballness of it you gotta love So there's a flipper up here by Wizard. It's got this little stick coming out the bottom of it. So it looks like a corn dog more than it does a flipper.
    64:10
    Yeah. I think it's just an effect for the bong off the rubber, but I'm not trying to defend that sign whatsoever. But it's one of those where it looks like someone took a bunch of clip art, knows what a pinball machine has in it, but doesn't know anything about physics, and put it all together. Yeah. so if you're listening to this on the podcast you're gonna have to join us on youtube for like just yeah this portion of the conversation yeah but don't get me wrong i'll i'll hang it on the wall i definitely will but it just it makes me chuckle because it was just like first thing i saw was like i'm plunging right into a wall that's gonna send it right down the outlay like there's well if you look at the layout too there is no way to save it from the outlanes it actually funnels to the outlanes, I don't even know if there's a way to get it in, like, straight down the middle. Is there even a pathway to get it to hit the slings?
    65:04
    Not with that big old pop bumper right there. I actually don't see... The only pathway I see is the right outlane, and if you possibly hit it like that one-way gates on some games, like on Fathom,
    65:18
    and you can actually get it in, then you could probably play something. so yeah it's it's i think in order to play that game you have to have skill on the initial plunge sure to get it to where that that would be definitely a skill shot so like i'm playing the game i got hit to the flippers okay i i have figured out where they got this though like have you ever ordered anything from wish.com where you get your picture and you're like, yeah, that looks awesome. And then they send it to you like, this looks like bailing wire and the hot glue gun. Yeah.
    66:01
    Oh, my goodness. To get that ball into play, it's basically the missile shot on Jurassic Park. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You get one out of ten times. You missed again. this is like steve richie's uh star wars this is a downgrade from that one just just a hair but yeah oh my goodness well i think that pretty much covers it unless you guys i i feel like we've there's really not much to talk about with jurassic park 30th between it's 13 000 and it's got a new art cosmetic if you like the cosmetics and you're an le buyer go nuts it's a great option yep I feel like when they do the press release tomorrow it's got a bunch of new features and everything involving the code I'll be sure to reach out to you Scott and get your take on it son of a there's a group just for Scott on Pinside now disgruntled LE owners it's like I'm starting to wonder though when it comes to Stern if the word limited actually means anything to them and if the word exclusive actually means anything to them. Well, I mean, yeah. Well, that was kind of the joke, right? Exclusive topper for Bond 60. Exclusive doesn't mean exclusive. It means included. Let me Google this real quick. Exclusive. I'm pretty sure. I'm going to buy you a thesaurus. And Merriam-Webster is sending this to you. Exclusive means exclusive. so that's funny because my wife brought home the seasoning it's called savory umami and if you don't know what umami means it means savory so it's savory yeah that's a little redundant what language is that I don't know umami is I've heard people putting it on certain things and I watch certain food stuff and I'm like okay yeah it seems to be the new hot word in food shows because there's the six the six different types of a flavor you know yeah the first time i heard like oh put some umami i'm like what umami like i don't know yeah i don't i've never seen it in person i had to google it too yeah i just pulled up the wikipedia on it if i well i typed in umami and i got something completely different. Yeah, yeah. You ordered the wrong one. Maybe the right one. You need to add the same filters. I should have put it on incognito mode before I Googled that one.
    68:42
    I have to look at my history and what is this? Umami? I was looking for savory food. I Googled umami for the articles. I was making you dinner, honey. This is what I was making.
    68:56
    Wow. Crazy stuff. Good news, Josh. So actually, Josh is the only one on the program who is not wearing a loser cap. See, I'm wearing the OG hat. Kerry's wearing the 2.0 hat. But I've been flashing my mug. Okay, you did. That was another birthday present for my wife. She's like, you guys should sell these. And I was like, maybe.
    69:21
    I do love this hat. People are always like, why are you always wearing that hat? Because it's comfortable. It looks awesome. I mean, yeah, my favorite.
    69:32
    I'm going to hit Josh up after we get off, but we actually have a 3.0 version coming out. Oh, snap. We actually have four different versions of it, so we might have to narrow it down. Yeah, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.4.
    69:47
    I know, right? Are you coming to Expo, Kerry? Yeah, I'm all set for Expo. I'll be involved in even a seminar on that. I don't know when or what it's going to be about, but I've been invited to do that. Nice. Awesome. Well, I'll see you there. I know Scott is not sadly going to be there. Yeah, I couldn't get off. Stupid work. I'm glad you ended it with stupid work. It took everything I had. I got a couple of clean eyes. It would look super sketch if I'm like, yeah, I'm culling in sick. I have COVID I will be gone for the next five days Yeah Well cool If you want people to get a hold of you, Kerry Where is it best for them to get a hold of you at? My content's available on YouTube You can usually type in Pinball in the search Or Kerry Hardy in the search And you should be able to find me that way I guess I've grown up enough popularity To where I actually show up On one of your top searches for pinball So I guess that's cool to an extent But, yeah. Humble is always.
    70:57
    It's one of those things where I was curious one day. I'm like, I'm curious. And, you know, everybody's Googled themselves at one point, and sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. You never know what you're going to get. But, yeah, my content's available on YouTube. I talk and do everything pinball. As I state, it's, like I said, anything. It varies from restorations to current topics that are going on in the industry and the hobby in general and stuff. So, by all means, check me out if you haven't already. definitely check out his American pinball skit on Galactic Ting Force absolutely it was classic if you want to get a hold of us we are loserkidpinball at gmail.com if you're looking for us on the socials we are at loserkidpinball on Facebook Instagram X is that what they're calling it the kids are calling it the Twitters slash X but I heard that he had a hard time you know it's like X nevermind I'm going to kill the joke anyhow So X and Twitch, YouTube, it's at Loser Kid Pinball and everything. We even have TikTok, even though I've not done a single video. I'm going to have to hit up Jen Rupert because she is the TikTok queen. Someone has to figure out how to do it. I'm too old. Yeah. And so also don't forget silverballswag.com slash Loser Kid. You can get our stuff there. We just added – what did we just add? We added something. Oh, glasses. You get new beer glasses. it's got loser kill logo on one side and then the goat on the other so if you want i think they come in a pack of four but you'll have to double check but yeah got it seems like we're always adding stuff to our store on there so we also have a link tree so if you want to hit that it'll give you everything that i just explained so there you go anything else you got you got anything else for us scott you know what i am bummed that i'm not going to expo but i really want to know who's buying this and why you're buying it so reach out let us know definitely all right we'll see you in a couple weeks guys i appreciate you having me on here it's been a pleasure thanks carrie thank you