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Pinball Party Podcast Ep 22: Ray Day

The Pinball Network·video·1h 30m·analyzed·Mar 15, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Pinball Party Episode 22: pricing anxiety, hobby sustainability, and an interview with Ray Day.

Summary

Jason from Pinball Party Podcast discusses pricing concerns in the pinball hobby with listener Joe, defending his earlier dismissal of Godfather's $15,000 price while acknowledging that prices significantly impact his purchasing and playing decisions. He introduces guest Raymond Davidson (Ray Day), a designer who worked on Rush and Foo Fighters pinball machines, and briefly covers the newly revealed Pulp Fiction pinball by Chicago Gaming Company.

Key Claims

  • Current average pinball machine price is around $8,000

    high confidence · Jason states: 'let's just say on average, these days, on average, it's like $8,000 for a machine'

  • Godfather pinball at $15,000 represents better value than Bond 60th anniversary despite the price difference

    high confidence · Jason: 'Godfather CE at $15,000 looks way, way, way fucking more worth it than Bond 60th. It's not even close.'

  • Pulp Fiction Pinball will have SE model at $7,999 and LE model at $9,500

    high confidence · Jason reviews pricing: 'The SE is $7,999, a.k.a. $8,000. The LE is $9,500.'

  • The pinball market is currently a buyer's market with elevated prices

    medium confidence · Jason: 'People talk about the bubble. Right now, it's definitely a buyer's market. It is definitely a buyer's market. And in a buyer's market, these prices are even higher.'

  • Pulp Fiction was designed by Mark Ritchie

    high confidence · Gameplay trailer synopsis: 'designed by Mark Ritchie, Indiana Jones, the Pinball Adventures, and Fishtails fame'

Notable Quotes

  • “The price is the number one thing... when I'm looking to buy or sell a game, I'm never, never, ever like, oh, how low can I get them so then I can sell it and make some money? No, never. That's what my day job is for. Pinball is just a hobby.”

    Jason @ ~19:30 — Core motivation for starting the podcast and primary concern driving his engagement with the hobby

  • “$8,000 could be a vacation to Disney World for a week... a week of actual life experience [vs] pick a vacation or a pinball machine that once in a while i might quote miss it... that's just not me”

    Jason @ ~24:00 — Illustrates the financial tension and opportunity cost analysis driving pricing concerns

  • “I either go full in on something 5 million percent or I'm out... The point where this gets to be where I'm out, yeah, I'll stop doing the podcast. I'll stop buying. I'll stop playing.”

    Jason @ ~28:15 — Explicit statement of Jason's threshold for exiting the hobby entirely if pricing reaches unsustainable levels

  • “There is a ceiling where I just like, you know, even if my wife trusts me and I know what I'm doing, like this just feels uncomfortable and I just can't do this”

    Jason @ ~27:45 — Reinforces personal financial limits despite strong income and savings practices

  • “Pinball's out of my life... I'll have to just like a bandaid, rip it off, stop going on pin side and just ignore it.”

    Jason @ ~28:20 — Demonstrates the all-or-nothing nature of Jason's engagement with the hobby

  • “I need to figure it out... I backed out of the deal. I totally did... I apologize to him via text and on the Chicago forums.”

    Jason @ ~34:45 — Self-awareness about problematic behavior (deal cancellations) driven by pricing anxiety

  • “It looks fun as shit... Single level, but really cool magnets... a gobble hole in the back.”

    Jason @ ~42:00 — Initial reactions to Pulp Fiction reveal, noting playfield features

Entities

JasonpersonRaymond DavidsonpersonJoepersonBlakepersonPinball ObsessedpersonMark RitchiepersonJosh SharppersonZach Sharp

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Operators are reportedly rejecting high-priced machines due to cost barriers, limiting location play opportunities

    medium · Joe reports: 'two of our local operators have said they have no intention of buying Godfather' due to price

  • ?

    community_signal: Secondary market dynamics showing tension between fair-price sellers and overpriced-listing holders, with Jason noting he now sends market comparison data to sellers

    high · Detailed anecdotes about sending Pinside messages with previous sales links to demonstrate market pricing, frustration with stubborn sellers

  • ?

    event_signal: North American Championships and IFPA Pinmasters championship tournaments recently held, run by Josh Sharp, Zach Sharp, and Adam Becker

    high · Raymond Davidson mentions: 'it was the uh north american uh championships on thursday and then that weekend there was the uh yeah the ifpa pin masters championship'

  • ?

    community_signal: Recognition of community members who understand market dynamics and conduct ethical transactions (Balkboy, Pinball Obsessed) vs. those who don't

    high · Jason specifically calls out Blake and Pinball Obsessed as 'figured out' community members, contrasting with unnamed 'shitbags'

  • $

    market_signal: Current pinball market identified as 'buyer's market' with paradoxically elevated prices, suggesting demand-supply tension

    medium · Jason: 'It's definitely a buyer's market... these prices are even higher'

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.273

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching. Pinball Party. Hey, welcome to episode 22 of the Pinball Party Podcast. This is Jason. You're slightly disheveled physically just because I haven't taken a shower yet today.
0:41
Oh. I'm going to talk to you about pinball today. So is someone else, I think. Me. Nah, meh. Not you. Eat shit. How about you eat shit? You say that every time. I think it's your favorite thing to say. But I'll take the high horse. I don't want to neglect you, you know. Even though you're a robot, you seem to have feelings. I love you, Dad. Okay, don't get weird, man. I'm not your dad. I had you made. I kind of, like, woke aside. I own you, and it's kind of weird. I mean, dude, you have two dads. Dad. No, I'm, again, idiot. I'm not your dad. But you have two of them. Maybe we'll introduce them to you at some point. But what I was saying before we made this really uncomfortable and weird, man. Dad. Don't call me dad. I was going to say, I don't want to neglect you. You know, you're a pinball guy. You know, you're clearly, with all these games being announced right now, what game tickles your fancy? Foo Fighters. Nice, nice. Good call. Why is that? Because they rock my nuts off. Yeah. They rock my nuts off, too.
1:47
You know, I mean, I didn't mean to get all up on you about the whole dad thing. You know, we clearly are very similar. We have a lot of things in common. You know, you're kind of like a chip off the old block. You know what I mean? Dad. Don't call me dad. Fuck you. All right. Cool. Good talk. We'll see you later. See ya. I actually want to address something that's near and dear to my, I don't know, heart or my pinball heart. My pinball, half the reason I'm doing this podcast, I'll get to it in just a second. Before we do, hey, we have a Patreon. Thanks for all the new members. Please go check it out. Forgive me. I haven't thanked. I'm actually recording this the day after the last episode. so this is going to be recorded in chunks because I just wanted to actually get to this email right away. And also Flippin' Out Pinball, sponsor of the show. They're the shit. I mean, what are we doing here? Flippin' Out Pinball. F-L-I-P-N-O-U-T. Pinball. Zach, Nicole, Greg, whole team. Fuckin' A. That's where I get my games. That's where I get my accessories. That's where I appoint other people because I'm not an idiot and I like to work with great companies. So Flippin' Out Pinball. We slowed the jingle down last week, so let's pick it up. Okay. I got an email from Joe, who emailed in at pinballpartypodcasts at gmail.com.
person
Adam Beckerperson
Pulp Fiction Pinballgame
Rush Pinballgame
Foo Fighters Pinballgame
Godfather Pinballgame
Bond 60th Anniversary Pinballgame
Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
Metallica Progame
TNA 2.0game
Chicago Gaming Companycompany
Play Mechanicscompany
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
IFPAorganization
?

community_signal: Raymond Davidson moving between designer roles, recently competed in major tournaments (North American Championships, Pinmasters)

high · Jason interviews Ray Day who just returned from Pinmasters championship, confirms work on Rush and Foo Fighters

  • $

    market_signal: Jason articulates deep concern about escalating pinball machine prices ($8,000 average) and their impact on hobby accessibility and personal financial sustainability

    high · Extended monologue about $15,000 Godfather, anxiety about $8,000 machines as 'sunken cost', willingness to exit hobby entirely if prices continue rising

  • $

    market_signal: Pulp Fiction pricing at $7,999 SE and $9,500 LE represents mid-range tier positioning in current market

    high · Jason notes SE at $7,999 and LE at $9,500, contextualizing these within broader pricing discussion

  • ?

    announcement: Pulp Fiction pinball officially announced by Chicago Gaming Company with full specifications and trailer release

    high · Jason plays trailer during podcast, confirms SE $7,999 and LE $9,500 pricing, notes Mark Ritchie design credit

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Jason's stated attempt to not care about pricing (previous episode) is revealed as self-deception/coping mechanism rather than genuine perspective shift

    high · Joe's email forces Jason to admit: 'when I said I don't care about the price last episode... I was trying to convince myself of that'

    • 3:11
    First off, I enjoy listening to your podcast each week. I love your creativity and hearing from the electric bat. Thank you, Joe. However, if you're a more recent podcast, I have an issue with your take on Godfather. The issue isn't with the excitement, how it looks, or the overall impressions. The issue is when you said, quote, you don't care about the price, quote. It's easy to say you don't care about the price if you don't intend to purchase it, but you still should care about the price unless you don't even want to play it. That doesn't sound like the case. The price is so high for this game, two of our local operators have said they have no intention of buying Godfather. Hell, even your guest Kale from the Electric Bat said the same thing. So unless you're willing to travel to some elite operator location or have a rich friend that buys the game, most will not be able to play it. And that sucks. I'm also very excited about the game, and I would love to play it. Like you, I have no intention to buy it, but would love to throw some money in to play it, but it doesn't sound like a good option as well. So, yeah, the price really is important, and you should talk about it or don't. It's your podcast. Love your show. Have a great day.
    4:13
    And the reason I wanted to read that is because when I did say I don't care about the price last episode, And the reason I did is because I was trying to convince myself of that. For those who didn't listen to the first few episodes of this before it was on the Pinball Network, my very first episode was because I wanted to get a TNA. TNA 2.0 was released and announced, and it was $9,500. And I aptly said, get fucked. That is way too high. What the hell are you doing? And that came from a place of exactly what he said. I want to play this game. But the prices are just getting nuts. Of course, every pinball manufacturer, every distributor, flip it out. You know, sponsored by them. It's all business. It's here to make money, and I agree.
    5:02
    Of course, that being said, prices are just getting nuts. So when I said I don't care about the price of Godfather, I assure you, I really do. and I was just kind of telling myself that to, you know, when Bond 60th got announced, it was like, come on, what are we doing? Even when Toy Story 4, like, come on, what are we doing? TNA 2.0, what are we doing? The most aptly priced pinball machine at first glance, mind you, in the last, I should say, year, other than like a certain pro,
    5:37
    was Scooby-Doo to where you saw the price and like that thing, that thing looks like it's worth that. It looks loaded. And Godfather, to be honest, the $15,000 is too much for anything in pinball. But in the grand scheme of things, Godfather CE at $15,000 looks way, way, way fucking more worth it than Bond 60th. It's not even close. If some objective onlooker from somewhere else saw Bond, they'd be like, okay. And then they saw Godfather. Whoa, hello. So one of those is obviously like $10,000 more than the other.
    6:15
    Yeah, and you're wrong, and it's the other way around. And the other reason I wanted to kind of talk about this price thing, I started this podcast, not that you care or you ask, but hey, this is why I'm talking, whatever. Apparently you listen to me. I don't know why. You shouldn't. I'm an idiot. But I started this thing because I've been in the hobby for, I don't know, five to seven years. A couple of those years were very softly, and then now buying and selling and all that. And I often got shit, and I still do sometimes, of how often I go through games. Man, what's wrong with you? You've got to bolt these things. Keep them forever. You're going to, quote, you're going to miss it. You know, those fucking figure it out. Figure it out. There's a quick little figure it out. People who put in, quote, you're going to miss it on random Facebook posts or whatever. Shut up, dude. Fuck you. What are you doing? How does that help anyone? You're going to miss it. Yeah, maybe. it was so like what you keep things based on at one point in my life i might slightly miss it for a second so i gotta hold on to this fucking thing no matter what bolt that shit to get a five pound pike and bolt this fucker to the floor because at that one time i regret getting rid of this holy shit my life's over i don't operate that way not not anything wrong with people that bolt stuff to the floor all that there's many different reasons to be into this hobby there's the collectors that want to just shine the machine, get everything powder-coated, get the LE of every model. Love it. I like buying from you, especially when it's a normal price, because you guys keep great care of your game, and I totally love it. There's others who want beaters that barely work and they're cheap as shit so they can put in the time and effort and then make a couple hundred bucks on it and feel good about it. Love it. There's those that flip games constantly, buy things at low, just to sell it high. Those ones fucking, unless you're Brobra, because Brobra actually does it correctly and he's good like the guy, hey, bro, where I'm in. You do it correctly. But the other dumbass is that, you know, oh, I know what I got. This is the price, and I don't pay attention to the market because I know what I'm talking about, and you can also get fucked. But for me, I was always, I want to play the game for a little bit, and then I get bored with it, and I move it on. So why all this price thing matters to me, a roundabout way of saying this is literally what goes through my head why I sell games so fast. I get shit still all the time, even from TPM people. I don't know why, maybe they're not comfortable in their own skin I don't know, giving other people shit for not flipping games but getting rid of games so fast I don't know, it's just what I do I get bored with things fast you know video games, I do not that I have like ADD which some people say, oh you have pinball ADD maybe to you, I guess and believe me, I've been tested hey here we go heart on my sleeve, full disclosure, yeah I've been tested I'm on the borderline, I can control it I'm really good at focusing on something that I want to put 200% into. And sometimes that means I absorb things quickly, so I move on to something else. And to be honest, it's not from a lack of intelligence. It's not from a lack of attention. It's just how I work.
    9:19
    So for me, games, when I play them, either it's a game I like a lot and I keep it a long time. For me, a long time is honestly like a couple months. Or it's within a couple days. I'm like, okay, I can see where this is going. I'm not going to like this, so I listed for sale day one or whatever, just to either make my money back or lose a couple hundred or make a couple hundred. That's how I feel. So for me, the prices really, really matter because if I want to play a game,
    9:45
    again, to Joe's point, there's no Jersey Jack collection around me to play. I can drive a couple hours, sure, but if I want to really – a Jersey Jack game, to be honest, is not a game to me that you can really absorb, putting a couple quarters in on site and playing two games. It's like, all right, I got my fill. You haven't even scratched the surface of that game, guy. So for me as well, I know what it takes to get into a game. You got to, I mean, newer, I should say. Maybe older games, not as much, EMs, et cetera. But newer stuff, you need some time on it. So again, I buy a game. I usually have a collection of one to four. And I try to play as much as I can until I know, like, okay, I'm done with it. But the price weighs heavily on me every time. The price is the number one thing. because when I'm looking to buy or sell a game, I'm never, never, ever like, oh, how low can I get them so then I can sell it and make some money? No, never. That's what my day job is for. My day job is to make money. Pinball is just a hobby. So for those, again, out there who are doing this to make money, unless you're a distributor and doing it, fuck off. Just fuck off. Please, for me and everyone else, get fucked. Get fucked. Please stop doing that. I'll get a game, and if I feel like, let's say I get screwed in a deal, like I don't know about some super crazy wear or something that was hidden from me or I didn't see or something, you know, get it home, and then that price, I feel it like, oh, my God, I made a big mistake. Because it's thousands of dollars. It's a lot of money. This is not $10. And to be, I guess, even more clear, am I a millionaire? No, I'm not going to tell you what I make. I'll give you a rough you know here's what I do I'm a senior manager of a technical sales team at a software company so anyone who's roughly in that kind of field now you have a general sense give or take I work at a very competitive company so there that's roughly what I make I have a family one daughter one wife one beautiful beautiful furry daughter named Mabel And I like to save a lot.
    11:56
    You know, I max out my 401k every year. Hey, so you know, this is not financial advice. I'm giving you my kind of perspective on price. This is where it comes from. I like to max out my 401k. Yeah, I have employer matching, but, you know, I maximize as much as I can.
    12:10
    I save beyond that. I invest a little bit. I have my own nest egg, right? For me, it's personally like a six-month. Should me and my wife just get jammed? we have six months to just fucking live the way we're living right now for six months without change so we can find a job, all that. I have no debt aside from mortgage. There you go. I mean, I'm probably giving way too much away, but that's me. I don't keep credit card debt. I have my mortgage and paid off my cars from when our, fuck it, when our company went public and there was an, whatever, there you go, right? So I get a good paycheck and I'm happy and I'm good and I can go on vacation once a year, you know, and do all that. So let's just say on average, these days, on average, it's like $8,000 for a machine, you know, not something old. When you have a game in your house, it's $8,000. And suddenly you're like, Oh, I don't love this thing. That $8,000 is something like that sunken cost that money's gone. Holy shit. And my wife trusts me and everything on the money. And I but that's still $8,000 on something that I might not even like. So it's in my house. I'm like, I don't like this thing. It's just this, you know, I look at it as almost like as a debt just sitting there, an asset that's not being used. And that's what it is sometimes. Because I'm not doing this for a business, but, you know, that's what weighs heavily on me is price, just being honest. That's why I go through games sometimes quickly of if it's an expensive thing, suddenly I realize this thing is not worth $8,000 to me. Where I could, let's see, $8,000 in a pinball machine that maybe I want to play once a week just in case, to that guy's point, I might, quote, miss it once for 10 seconds. $8,000? It's not worth $8,000.
    13:52
    So I list it, and I try and please get out of here, because, oh, my God, now this thing, to me, it's like an anxiety kind of thing. Like, I don't want to have this. Holy shit.
    14:02
    $8,000 could be a vacation to Disney World for a week without having to, well, more than that, but you know what I mean. Like, where you could go and just do anything. Do whatever you want. Pay for all the FastPasses or Lightning, whatever the fuck they call them now. buy steak dinners every night just who cares about money there's that a week of actual life experience pick a vacation or a pinball machine that once in a while i might quote miss it so it's sitting there that that's just not me so that's what goes through my head so when joe reached out and the price that it doesn't matter there's a big diatribe on where the price very much matters to me joe i'm very much in the same boat i was just kind of practicing like let try to not care about the price. People talk about the bubble. Right now, it's definitely a buyer's market. It is definitely a buyer's market. And in a buyer's market, these prices are even higher. So yeah, prices are near and dear to my heart. It's kind of why I started this. It's why I get so much shit from people about moving games in and out so fast. It's why I get this anxiety of having machines in here, especially when I get the littlest inkling of not liking them. Oh my God, fuck. So there's a bunch of my word puke on why, Joe. I totally agree with you. I think prices are more than important, not only just from a hobbyist, but from an operator.
    15:24
    And if they just keep going up, there is a ceiling. I am, again, I kind of talked about my financial practices. None of that is advice, mind you. But for me, there is a ceiling where I just like, you know, even if my wife trusts me and I know what I'm doing, like this just feels uncomfortable and I just can't do this, you know, and I won't be someone that kind of softly gets out of the hobby. I've tried that. I can't, I either go full in on something 5 million percent or I'm out. So the point where this gets to be where I'm out, yeah, I'll stop doing the podcast. I'll stop buying. I'll stop playing. I'll have to just like a bandaid, rip it off, stop going on pin side and just ignore it. And pinball's out of my life. That's the only way I can do it because for a lot of those out there who know this kind of underlying thing as well. There's this slight addiction to buying and selling and the hunt, finding the games. And that thing drives me as well. I'm just like a lot of you. I wake up, get my coffee, and I start looking on Pinside or Facebook or searching and putting the price ranges in. I have my alerts, all that stuff that we do. I do it too. And sometimes I question, is this healthy? What am I doing? And is it healthy with this amount of money? Again, like an $8,000 average. I'm playing with fire here. At what point do I just lose big time and like, this is stupid, where it's really just a game in the end. It's pinball. It's supposed to be fun. For me, I think the hunt is part of the game. And a lot of you, the collecting is part of the game. The fixing machines is part of the game. It's fun from many angles, which is why I think in this small market, there's such an influx of creativity, the podcast, there's videos. If you look at the size of this hobby and the amount of media around a hobby this small, it's pretty wild. It's pretty impressive because I think of all the angles you can take from this, from art, sound, music, gameplay, design, coding, I'm talking art on the playfield, outside, animation direction, there is a lot that goes into here. and you know I'm thankful to be part of it but I just know like if this ceiling gets to the point prices get to a point I'll be out and I don't want that to happen so thanks again Joe for writing in to the pinball party podcast at gmail.com anyone out there love to hear your thoughts I would really love to go in depth about a prime example of someone who needs to figure it out but I'd probably be it's not fair because it's like private communication on pin side, you know, that would be really unfair of me and just immoral, I think. So I'm not going to do that on this one. But it's still the same people that think that a market is some static element that once something reaches a price, it stays there no matter what. Supply and demand, be damned, I know what I have. Oh, I really would like to get into this. I shouldn't. I really shouldn't. Let's just use this as an example, though. Someone has something listed at, I don't know, let's say it's $6,000, when it should be at most $5,000. Not because I'm some lord of Pinside that knows all the costs, but I do this a lot, and there's plenty of out there, and I'm going to talk about someone soon who does have it figured out. There's plenty out there that get what I'm saying. And you kind of have a pulse, you know, on anything, roughly $200 to $500 of what something is at. You see the market kind of go up. You see it go down. You hear pinball market trends.
    19:01
    Those of us who do it enough know this. But there's those out there. And where figure it out all began was kind of the rules of the road, tips and the tricks. What do you do in the secondary market? But these people, I'm starting to not be able to handle it. I'm sinking so low. Or maybe, I guess, maybe I'm rising up. the things that now I'm doing on Pinside when I message about games that are priced off. Now I've gotten to the point where I send these people links of previous sales to just say, like, look, bro or broette, these are the last five sales of the exact thing that you're asking to sell. And here's two that are currently available. Now we're looking at these numbers, which all start with a five, and are in better condition and have more valuable mods and are home use only versus yours, who the only thing that yours has going for you is some stubborn ass on the other end that says, this is for sure worth six and I know it.
    20:03
    That's cool if there's like a reason, like, you know, does it have five color DMDs with it? Is it, you know, a pinball refinery or something that's actually kind of tangible? I say, quote, unquote, worth value. No, your value is just your words and your one feedback. The last game you sold was in like 2018. You only sell like Johnny mnemonics that are in shit condition. And somehow you just you have it figured out magically with this number. So, yeah, I'm sending people links. of it yeah like you know respectively here's literally what you're working with this is the market like i don't want to school you on how this works but like i'm trying because two things i want the game and i'm a very motivated buyer so like you can have thousands of dollars right now if you do this and i i'm like i swear i'm not burning you i'm like right in the middle of the market here's all the links like i'm dick do you want money you know no i don't i'm holding up for that extra three hundred dollars because at one point could be three months from now. It could be six months from now. I'm going to, by golly, get that $300. Good fucking luck. And I'm happy that you're going to maybe one day, most likely not, get that money. In the meantime, I've probably bought and sold that game three times for $1,000 less than that. So you are now in competition with me, who's pricing things aptly in the market.
    21:31
    Clearly you don't have this figured out. So eat some shit. I almost said that. I think you're bad for them. But I don't. I said almost, and I need that. I don't. What I do is after this upsets me because their intelligence is so low, I stew about it, and then I tell my wife. I tell her this exact what I told you, way too in-depth, all this shit. Point is, I need to be stopped. Maybe I'm the one that needs to figure it out. In fact, I do. So dear pinball slash obsessed. Yes, you're listening. I hope you are. I, Jason, need to figure it out. Why? Because him and I made a deal on a Metallica Pro, and he went way above and beyond. He had a bunch of mods in his, and I was thinking of getting one, and the mods were like powder coats and things, you know, beyond color DMD that are kind of, you know, to me, take it or leave it. And I was like, hey, I'm interested, but a couple of these vanity mods I'm just not personally valuing. Would you mind taking some of them off and cutting some money? And he rightfully so hemmed and hawed a little bit and then got back to me and was like yeah actually I will And he went he bent over backwards for the price and everything And we accepted a price together And I was like cool I be there Wednesday at you know whatever 4 o I think it was And then the next day he sent me a follow-up like, hey, just want to make sure you're good to go before I pack it up. You know, and I was like, yeah, long story short, I'm not. Fuck. I backed out of the deal. I totally did. I totally did not have it figured out. I need to figure it out.
    23:10
    I apologized to him via text and on the Chicago forums. And I'm doing it out there to anyone listening. I've backed out of deals in the past. In fact, I just did it yesterday. And I'm really sorry. It happens to me all the time. I don't mean to propagate that behavior. It's just maybe the previous anxiety of money gives us all reasons. It's not an excuse. It's just a reason. So Pinball Obsessed, fantastic pinsider to work with. I don't have it figured out. He does. Also, someone who I definitely want to call out as a figured-out member of the pinball community. Pinside name, Balkboy. It's B-L-A-B-A-L-K-E-Boy. Real name is Blake. Somewhat local to me. We did a deal on a Black Knight Sword of Rage very recently. I think you listened to the podcast. So, hey, Blake. Hey, man. He came over. We played some games. Actually, another local guy came over. We played three-way TNA to see how far we could get, and we were embarrassingly terrible. I've gotten way farther than the three of us did together. In fact, John, who came over also, got in playing there right when me showing him the rules got farther than all three of us. So that game can be brutal as shit. But we had fun. Sold him the game. He clearly knows how the prices work, and it's just he knows the whole process. Helped me load it up. Even helped me move it upstairs. Fucking A. Like, you know, let's not die. Get your back ready to really pull some muscles. I'll get on the dolly. I'll go up the stairs backwards. You push up. It was a pleasure, man. Good times. Just to be clear, there is equal amount of good figured out people, if you will, out there. There's just so many shitbags. But maybe that's just Earth, you know? Planet Earth. Welcome to Planet Earth, aliens from the Foo Fighters game and Galactic Tank Force. And what else is aliens? The Scott Denise game. Welcome to Earth, a shitload of shitbags and a couple good gems. Gems that have only been forged from the constant berating from said shitbags. Anyway, Blake, you, my friend, have it figured out.
    25:22
    Figured out. All right, and right before we get to the star of the show, listen to this shit. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.
    25:58
    Ah, Pulp Fiction. Shown. Gameplay trailer. Read the little synopsis here. Play Mechanics Pinball and Chicago Gaming Company are proud to introduce Quentin Tarantino's groundbreaking cinematic masterpiece, Pulp Fiction, to the world of pinball. A vintage-inspired experience designed by Mark Ritchie, Indiana Jones, the Pinball Adventures, and Fishtails fame, Pulp Fiction Pinball features original hand-drawn cabinet and playful artwork, over 250 iconic lines of dialogue from 19 legendary characters, and five licensed songs from the film's classic soundtrack. Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead.
    26:38
    Everyone out there, go check out the trailer. Pulp Fiction Pinball trailer. Google it, you'll find it. It looks really, really, really sweet. The couple, you know, quick things to note. Single level. I say that because it looks like there's a ramp, kind of, into the briefcase, the golden briefcase, you know, that shines in their face and you never know what it is. Is that a ramp? It looks like it's got a drop-down ramp into it. Anyways, all the scores are numeric. There does not look to be a screen per se, although the alphanumeric looks like it does text and numbers and probably maybe a little more than it did way back in the day. Inline drops. Single level, but really cool magnets. a gobble hole in the back. I don't know. It looks fun as shit. The art is cool. It's very red, you know? Very red and... Red? Red and yellow. The art looks awesome. The, you know, Samuel L. Jackson, John Travolta look badass. The sculpt of Samuel L. Jackson in the back. The cheeseburger. The case, again, you know, with the gold in it. Is there a watch? Where's the watch? Watch has... Is it a watch on the right? I think it's a watch on the right. The fucking topper is so cool. It's them dancing. The iconic scene in the movie where they're dancing. You know what it is. Oh, yeah, and John Travolta molded in the back as well. I'm just watching the video over and over because it's all we have.
    28:12
    The back glass looks cool. It all looks great. Anyway, that's all we have to see. Talk about it later. Just wanted to get it out there because the trailer just popped while I was recording this. So Pulp Fiction, pinball, Chicago Gaming Company. Coming soon. Oh, prices. Maybe just quickly talk prices of this game. As far as we know so far, there is two models, an LE and an SE. The LE will go in order. The SE is $7,999, a.k.a. $8,000. The LE is $9,500. The difference is, sorry, I haven't looked into it. You know, probably a topper and things like that. I don't know. Go check it out. Anyway, Pulp Fiction, tails in. Are you?
    28:58
    Okay, so on the note of can't keep up with every pinball company known to man is releasing every game now, I won't lie, the one I'm most excited for is the one we're going to talk a little more in depth today. And why not talk in depth with one of the creators of the game, Mr. Raymond Davidson? Well, yeah, with all the new games. Another new game just got revealed. Yeah, and I did that right before yours came out. Actually, let's just start. Hey, welcome. Because I just played that trailer on the podcast right before you joined.
    29:32
    So, hey, welcome, Raymond Davidson, a.k.a. Ray Day. Did you see the Pulp Fiction trailer? Yeah, yeah, just saw it. It just dropped. What do you think? It looks pretty cool. Although, yeah, I mean, it looks way better than the potato phone pictures we saw before when it's in full resolution.
    29:55
    I guess it is the same layout of the potato pictures, though, right? I think. Yeah, but it looks so good with the, you know, in high def. Right. Yeah, in real life, it actually, yeah, it looks awesome.
    30:09
    Well, we can talk about Pulp Fiction in a bit. Man, thank you so much for joining. I, you helped make one of my favorite games of last year, if not my, no, I think it is my favorite game of last year, Rush, and now you're on Foo Fighters, which I'm super pumped.
    30:27
    You're, so, forgive me, I am the worst-knowledged pro circuit pinball, I don't know shit about pro stuff, so, it was what, you just came back from Pinmasters, is that what it's called? yeah yeah well it was the uh north american uh championships on thursday and then that weekend there was the uh yeah the ifpa pin masters championship which is their their one big pin golf tournament they do a year and all these terms i know ifpa but everything else are they all just pieces of that larger ifpa puzzle or are they all like sanctioned if you will i give me the 101 I don't know anything about any of it. I mean, at the base level, yes, they will all be worth IFPA points. But these ones are particularly run by the IFPA. So Josh Sharp, Zach Sharp, you know, Adam Becker, they're the tournament directors for this tournament. They set up the games. They make the rules. You know, they run these tournaments. and they even give extra boosts for them so that they're worth a little more IFPA points than a tournament you and I would run, you know, have some perks being in charge of the IFPA. Yeah, right. All right, so, I mean, you started off, well, I mean, you started off before this as a human, but, you know, a pro, if not number one pro, are you the number one right now? I can't keep up, man. I was the ranked. I flipped all the way to fourth now after this weekend, if you can believe that. Man. If you want me to hang up now, I can understand. Yeah, what are you doing here?
    32:10
    So were you number one before that? I mean, I'm assuming like every weekend, every couple weeks, that just shifts around.
    32:18
    Yeah, I mean, it's really shaken up quite a bit this year because of the new rules for this year where tournaments can basically be worth double or triple what they were last year. so now it's like if you get fifth at a tournament and someone who's close to you gets first they just gained like a huge amount on you and so now they pass you and the only way to get it back is to beat them at a tournament whereas before you could kind of just grind out points and because there was kind of a cap on the points I kind of just went to like a lot of things and did really well consistently and that was enough to kind of put me in number one but now um with everyone going to all these tournaments and them being worth so many points every tournament I don't win somebody else is winning and they're getting just tons of points and that's kind of what's been happening uh this year wow so do you have to just constantly be on the road traveling flying driving what are you doing all that yeah i rarely have weekends where i'm not traveling or playing in a pinball tournament uh but it's just fun because you get to see different parts of the country uh you get to hang out with pinball people uh and you get to you know kind of rank yourself against your own self of like well next tournament i'll do better uh and you get to see the results get put in you know in live time and and i gotta say it's pretty nice winning uh some big bucks at those tournaments too when you do well enough. Just won a new in box stern for winning the nationals. Oh, shit. Not bad.
    33:58
    I was going to ask, like, what is the drive? I mean, I get the competition thing. You know, a lot of people are competitive, so I get that. But is there, yeah, is it a monetary thing or is it just the competitive thing? I mean, why do you do it? I mean it's a little bit of everything but also you kind of get in a flow with the addictive quality of the tournaments where it's like once I go to a tournament one year it's almost just automatic like time to sign up for this tournament, book your flights you're going to it again for next year and throughout the years I've just started adding more and more of those and so now my calendar all of a sudden is like oh wow I'm going to Texas next week you know going to And wherever the week after that, it fills up really quick, and you just kind of get addicted to it. And how long have you been doing it, like, consistently, the tournament? I mean, I've been ranked ever since 2008, I think, was, like, my first tournament. So, I mean, that's, like, what, 14 years, 15 years? I can't even count.
    35:05
    Do you see any signs of slowing down? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I definitely have thought about, like, well, I probably don't need to go to everything and maybe just pick and choose a few things. But I'm still finding myself like, well, yeah, I do want to pick that one. Yeah, that one was fun. And like, yeah, I do want to go to that too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's fun.
    35:28
    Kind of how that's been going. That's how, like, I mean, pinball started. I'm using quotes as no one can see. But I heard this phrase Ray Day a lot, you know, when I started doing that. I don't know what the hell that is. you know and then when you know I joined the TPN thing and I saw that name and they're like what is that Ray Day thing what the hell is that and then I put two and two together of the name like oh yeah it's short for Raymond Davidson um and I knew you from or when I first started hearing Ray Day was from I think Led Zeppelin because you did software on that and for those who don't know that was yeah like uh was that your first at Stern well that was the first one that I had a lot of control over. It was basically 50-50 me and Tim Sexton. When I started Stern, the first games I actually did work on was actually the Keith games. I did little tweaks in Jurassic Park and Iron Maiden just to get my feet wet.
    36:27
    My first big project was Avengers where Keith because they had that guy doing games every year it seemed. Poor Rick was just overwhelmed. So they were like, you know, hey, Raymond, we want you to help Rick get this game going, get it off the ground. And so I did a lot of the early, you know, modes and framework and structure. But I basically was following Keith's crazy rule doc that I had to parse and figure out and how to actually make it into code. I didn't do too much of the actual coming up with those rules. I improvised here and there for things, you know, coming up with the scores and that sort of thing. But that's kind of how I started. And then my next big project was Led Zeppelin, where it was me and Tim. Tim kind of laid out the big groundwork of the macro picture and then basically gave me the freedom of like, well, yeah, we have some tour multiballs to do what you want there. We have the Zeppelin multiball. We need a wizard mode. I actually came up with like, well, how about a halfway there wizard mode too? And he's like, yeah, that sounds great. Go for it. And so I did basically, you know, just kept doing stuff that felt good in Led Zeppelin.
    37:34
    And then Rush was kind of the same thing, same kind of split. You and Tim? Yeah. And I was going to ask that. I mean, you kind of answered it a little bit, I think. When people see your name on like Pinside or as, you know, software, Raymond Davidson, does that mean you're doing like conceptual design of the rules or you're coding it into Java C++? I don't know what their coding language is, whatever. Is it both, or what does software mean for you when you're making on a game?
    38:04
    Yeah, for me, it's mostly just actually typing up the code itself and making it happen. For the leads, like Tim or Tanya on Foo Fighters, their software lead is more all-encompassing. Everything that isn't strictly laying out the play field, like the designer's job, kind of falls on the software developer, like the lead software guy at Rural, because they have to really kind of line everything up, manage all the resources, make sure there's speech in the game, make sure that this is happening, make sure that's happening, make sure there's a cohesive flow with the rules and the inserts get used and everything.
    38:49
    But what I did was mostly you shrunk it down and focused on, okay this mode make it actually exist you know write the code to make it happen um not that's not i mean the lead software guys do that too but i was just focused on kind of the micro um coding and and and implementing things and how did that start were you you know uh were you working on homebrew stuff or did stern reach out to you or did just naturally like get to know people and then or how'd that start? It was Tim Sexton who reached out to me who said that they needed more software people and I said well I just bought a house in Everett, Washington why don't you reach out in another year and sure enough a year later he was like hey we still would like a software person and I was just like oh well you know by this point I had somebody who was renting the house with me and I was like well I could probably find someone else to rent it out too and I was like well I could probably pull this off man this is a big big change I don't know were you doing software before that?
    40:00
    yeah I was programming it was at a startup called Ripple R-I-P-L they have a social media content creation app for businesses to make ads for Facebook or whatever and so I was doing android and ios programming for uh mobile um but uh i you know i had i actually had done some c++ in a job in the job before that although not very much but is that what it's coded in is that what yeah yeah a lot of it's all like c++ so um that was kind of one of the big question marks but also all my data classes in in uh at the UW were all C++ so okay um they liked that you know had the degree I could do the stuff um that helps they yeah they flew me out and interviewed me and it was kind of funny because it was really cool that they they put me up in this hotel downtown it was really nice and like everyone was all happy to see me and we were going through talking everybody and then it was like almost within 10 minutes boom here's the whiteboard uh write code to do this and i was like oh oh crap this is like a code interview uh but luckily i i managed to do enough if then code it yeah yeah yeah so a couple for loops yep yep and so then after that you know got to meet all the people and talk with people and seemed like i was a good fit and uh Then I moved out here in May of 2020. So I drove across the country right when everything was closed down.
    41:43
    Oh, yeah. It's kind of fun. So you're not a contractor. You're a Stern employee, right? Like permanently? I don't know how that works. Yeah, yeah, Stern, full-time Stern employee here in Elk Grove Village. Ah.
    41:56
    Yeah, well, I guess you moved and you left your Tron back there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I left pretty much all my games back there. sold a couple renting some out some of them are just chilling in the garage uh still gotta kind of clean that up figure out what to do i only mentioned that because there's been a couple people who've reached out to me about tron since i've mentioned in the podcast that i was thinking of maybe picking yours up when someone was done renting and then this morning i was texting like hey i might buy this other one what do you think and you're like you're like i'll just do it mine's rented out again like fuck it so i bought it um so it's good yeah so i'm pumped so anyone out there You can stop reaching out with your super expensive Tron LEs. I don't want to pay that much for a Tron. Did you get the Pro upgraded with all the fixings? It was just like what you described yours was. A little more expensive, but it's like it's got everything. It's either weight or just, you know, they just never come up for sale. So I'm like, yeah, whatever. I'll probably take a loss on the shipping, but I don't care. I want to play it.
    42:54
    You know, I like Tron. I love Daft Punk. You know, from talking with Scott, I've only played Tron twice. and I love it. I don't know. I'm just excited. So, yeah, anyone out there, stop emailing me about your Tron. I'm not going to.
    43:09
    Yeah, so you left your Tron there. You drive out here. Now you're a permanent employee of Stern. Your house is just getting rented out by people and just take care of itself?
    43:20
    Yeah, kind of. I mean, I fly out there every couple months to make sure things are okay and that sort of thing, and sometimes crash local tournaments, and they're both happy to see me and also, you know, like, hey, wait a minute, I'm in Chicago.
    43:35
    Well, I'm kind of already asking you a ton of questions anyways, but I'd like to get to know your balls. We're getting to know your balls.
    43:48
    If you don't mind. Oh, my. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the correct response to that. I have a list of questions. I rotate this stuff all the time, but I want to talk to you about Foo Fighters, so let's get the semantics out of the way. I think I might know this question or the answer. But you tell me, do you prefer location play or home play?
    44:12
    I mean, it depends on the location. I definitely love the fact that when you're at a location, as a goal of first get replays and second put your name on the high score list.
    44:28
    Yeah, and I bet you're doing that all the time. I'll try to, yeah. But when you're playing at home, the goal is more like, all right, how deep can I get into this game? Or maybe there is no goal. Maybe you're just playing because you're bored and you want to flip some pinball.
    44:46
    So it just kind of depends what I'm in the mood for. but um i see behind me turtles and what is what's behind turtles i don't know if you'd be able to make it out but it's actually a mandalorian okay i saw the orange that's about yeah yeah and since you are you and you play games pretty well i'll stay like do you get i get bored of games quick not because i'm as good as you are but i don't know i just whatever do you get bored of games or like you beat it first ball and then what i mean how does it feel to be like a number one ranked and own a game. How long do you... I mean, most games, at least the ones that I would own are pretty hard to actually get through all the stuff even for me Yeah You know Godzilla even the final Wizard Mode and Turtles is hard to get to Mando is, you know, you've got to go through all the missions and everything. Like, all games today are pretty deep. And you can always make the games harder, too, if you find you're getting to them too often.
    45:49
    I don't. But also it's kind of like, well, if I play a game and it takes a long time and I get to the whiz mode, it's like, yeah, all right, cool. I'm probably not going to press start again right away. But, you know, a week or two later, I might want to do that again. And it's fun to just have a game at your house that you can be like, all right, let's play, you know. Yeah. And since you work at Stern, and I've never been there on location, but I assume there's games everywhere and you're doing pinball all day. It doesn't become like a chore to you where your hobby is now your job, so you get sick of it. you still like playing at home or is there like a balance? Uh, yeah, I mean, I am, I might be a little unique in that cause I pretty much everything pinball, right? I work in pinball. I take days off to go play in pinball tournaments. Uh, I, I have pinball machines at my house. Uh, I've, I sometimes go out to like Logan to play pinball there. Like, I don't know. I just, I love it. I don't really get sick of it. That's awesome. Uh, okay. So to take a very dark turn, do you have a big fear in life you're willing to share? I don't really have any phobias, but, you know, I'm always scared of missing out on things, you know, like not being ambitious in something or not trying something because you're scared of it. And then it's like you find out 10 years later, like, I should have done that, but now I can't. Wow. No, I, yeah, I, I struggle with that too. And I mean, sometimes It's, yeah, I get sometimes anxiety about flying, even though, like, I still do it. But, like, every time I'll make up a reason that's not flying. Like, oh, I don't want to go just because of, like, I'll bullshit myself and say it's not the flying thing, even though it kind of is. But, and then I just force myself to do it. And, like, yeah, to your point, if I didn't, I would totally regret it. But there's plenty of things I don't do, say. Yeah.
    47:38
    Okay, so pinball. Back to pinball. Do you have a favorite era of pinball? Because as a tournament player, you play all of them all the time. I've got to imagine there's like a chunk of time that you enjoy the most.
    47:53
    Yeah, I mean, it depends. But I do kind of like the 90s, you know, Allie Williams for competitive pinball because they're always kind of familiar in the fact that they didn't – because a lot of times with the newer games, you'll see them pulling out lane posts or setting ball saves off or doing all these crazy settings to them.
    48:19
    But on the Williams Valley 90s, they usually just don't touch them, and the rules don't have adjustments. So it's always like, well, if I'm playing Adam's family, I know I just have to shoot the ramp and shoot the chair. I just have to shoot the bookcases, get multi-ball. So there's something kind of cozy about playing those games in tournaments. I feel like I have a lot of agency in that era, whereas the older games, they are simple like the 90s games. So you know what to do, you know, like hit the target, shoot the spinner. But they're a little more random and chaotic. And even when you hit what you want to hit, sometimes you don't get the ball back. So that's annoying. And then, like I said, the newer games, a lot of times they'll just because the newer games are kind of designed with all this depth that we talked about earlier. It means they generally will play longer just geometrically or with the software features. So they have to really kind of strip them down a little bit and kind of nerf them for competitive play. And then that kind of turns those games into being a little more scary, a little more unfamiliar, unknown, you know. So that's kind of my analysis on that. I know what you mean by comfort games. My two biggest comfort games are Star Trek Pro, specifically. You haven't played the Star Trek at District 82. No. Right, right, right. Oh, man. They pulled posts I didn't even know that existed. Yeah. Open lanes just 10 inches wide. But that's because that game can take a long time. Yeah, and I think that's probably why it's a comfort one, because I can kind of just play it. The ramps feel so good. Oh, my God, those ramps. Those were, I remember that was the first game that I got, and probably the pinball game I played before that was probably 15 years before that, which was probably like either Waterworld or Attack from Mars, the bowling alley that I played a lot. So when I got into pinball and that was the first foray into like, oh, I'll buy a game, I don't think I'd ever played a modern stern. So when I got it home, I was like, holy shit, what the hell is this? Yeah, that's one of the best Steve Ritchie flow games, like the layout where every shot just goes into another shot and it's and it's buttery smooth you kind of just ride those ramps you know yeah it's just it just you feel it you feel like you are the ball like it's crazy yeah uh do you i don't know how much you do secondary market stuff so i've got a slash here do you have any horror stories from the secondary market or i guess in your case tournaments since you're doing those well i i sold uh stranger things premium uh Right when nobody wanted it.
    51:04
    Yeah. Yeah, I basically, I traded it for a Star Wars Pro. Jesus. Yeah. That's a whoopsies. At the time, it made total sense. Yeah. Yeah, you blew it.
    51:22
    Well, I guess, you know, Gomez was on the Freeplay podcast. It sounds like they're going to remake him anyway. So, you know, maybe you'll get to play them again for a lot more expensive than you had in the past.
    51:39
    Star Wars Pro. You know, I actually, I had a Star Wars Pro for a little while, and then I had a Premium just recently.
    51:47
    And I don't, actually, I do know what it is. I kind of like Star Wars Pro better than Premium because of the horseshoe on either side is always super fast because that ramp never comes up on the Pro. And I kind of like that, that it's so fast all the time where sometimes if the ramp is up and you hit the Hoth shot, like it just kind of stops and you have to wait for it to fall down. It takes away some of the flow to me. Yeah, that Death Star shot is kind of tough to hit too. Yeah. Can't backhand it that well sometimes, maybe. and Mr. Many vehemently disagrees. I tried backhanding his. His doesn't backhand. I mean, he was super floaty when I played it, but it's true.
    52:29
    Well, yeah, I had one premium at home for a little while that I could backhand it, and I was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. But that was back when I was too pussy for Star Wars, and I just was like, you know, it wasn't. But, okay, what is something you are grateful for? uh well i i guess it's kind of cheesy but i'm grateful for my my job here at stern yeah because you know it lets me uh they're cool about taking time to go to tournaments and and it's just really cool to be able to work in pinball so it doesn't feel like work because it's something you like doing so i'm definitely grateful for for that yeah i don't blame you i have a feeling you could just say the word pinball and it would suffice for everything you do Yeah, actually, that's very true because even my first software gig was kind of a networking through the guy who is the league president and the guy in charge of Seattle Pinball Organization. His company needed an intern, and he knew me from pinball. So it's just crazy how much it kind of affected my life. That's actually – man, that's cool. when you're playing a game knowing the games you've worked on I can't answer this for you ramps or spinners?
    53:50
    I think probably ramps just because I like, you get more like the spinner you get the immediate satisfaction of like you see it spinning but the ramps you get the full like it goes up and around and then it sets up another shot, whereas the spinner, after you hit the spinner, you kind of got to wait and see what happens. So if you could have a spinner on a ramp, which I know some games I think have, but I feel like not enough, that would be... Not enough is totally the answer. Yeah, that would be cool. I know for sure that the spinner on Rush is one of, if not my favorite spinners to hit.
    54:34
    Oh, yeah. Yeah, followed closely by the spinner in Star Trek, mainly because of that bright light under it. It's so cool. Yeah. But, man, when you hit that rush, it just... Oh, yeah. Oh, man. It goes and goes and goes, and, oh, man, it feels good. It's opto, right? No friction. Yeah, and it's the right spot on the flipper to me. It just feels like you can hit it every time you need to, at least from the... Can you back it up? Yeah. Yeah, and it's got that cool Borg geometry where you hit it, and it kind of slows the ball down a little bit and kind of just nicely pauses and then comes down in, like, this nice cadence where it's, like, rip and down and flipper. Very predictable every time, which sometimes on the Jurassic Park spinner, which is another one of my favorites because it's a really good shot, you know, it kind of sometimes gets a little clunky. But I did read he did that by design. Otherwise, it would be, like, way too bad. You wouldn't go in the box, yeah. Yeah, right. which I thought mine was jumping one of my recent I would hit the spinner and it would jump up in the air turned out that back post was up a little too high or even down too low and it actually jumps off the wood in short shit I gotta change something alright what is something I don't want to speak for you because pinball pinball pinball but is there something you want in life um i i would love to eventually like i have a house in everett but right now it's it's not it doesn't have like the big kick-ass basement game room you know sure pretty modest size house um and it doesn't mean i can't i haven't filled it with pinball machines in the corners i could put them in but i think it would be great to have a house with a big old basement uh kind of like my parents house actually they have a nice game room and and and just have to have my house be the place where people can come over to play pinball tournaments uh i'd love to um actually right before covid i was starting to have pinball tournaments at my house um but they're not fair come over would you join i mean would you get in the tournaments and just beat everyone uh no i wasn't playing in them okay that's what i was saying no fair for like i'm not coming over Yeah, no, it was just fun to kind of organize and see everybody having fun on games. Because if you own a bunch of games, they're almost certainly probably not getting as much use as they could. So running tournaments at your house or just hangouts where people are just playing games, talking, having fun. What games did you leave behind besides Tron? I got a Dirty Harry a Family Guy that's Star Wars Pro although that's sold now so I don't have that anymore and then I have a Rush Pro, Led Zeppelin Pro those ones I actually just shipped to my house kind of like as a keepsake I worked on these games and I don't have enough space in my apartment here for everything I think that's it now Oh, and the Tron, of course.
    57:51
    I did have things like Walking Dead, Metallica, Jurassic Park, but a lot of them have been sold. Usually what will happen is I'll rent it out to someone, and then they'll be like, can we buy this from you? And I'll be like, sure, but you're not getting the rental back. Right. You're going to pay market value for whatever. And they're like, yeah, sounds good. I'm like, okay, well, if I don't have to go pick it up, that's good for me because I'm over here. So the less trips I have to make, the better. Oh, that reminds me. I guess I do have a Batman 66, but it has been on permanent loan since I moved here.
    58:28
    They've rented it every month for like two and a half years. It was a couple hundred bucks a month, three hundred, four hundred. Well, that one, I mean, I guess I don't blame them because they locked in at a really low price. It was only a hundred bucks a month. Oh, yeah. But it's added up over two and a half years. Yeah.
    58:45
    Not bad. And I haven't had to do anything, so they've been taking care of it and everything, and at some point I'll get that back because I really love Batman 66. It's a fun game. I do too. I really do.
    58:58
    Do you have – can you answer this? Do you have a favorite game moment over the thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of pinball you've played? I really like Lord of the Rings has a lot of great moments of like just getting to the super jackpots in any of the three multiball feels like a moment because Gandalf yelling super jackpot at you defeat the Balrog you know and cross everybody on the bridge and then you shall not pass yeah that's probably one of my favorites I went to someone's house the other yeah oh god I went to someone's house the other day who had two Lord of the Rings because he's a psychopath and he was I mean a good one he was like swapping things between them and I was like oh let me play this one and while he was like doing some stuff so I played Lord of the Rings and I got eight people across and I was on the ninth and he came over and was like hey what are you doing I'm like oh don't you know like I just needed that night and then I didn't get it And he's like, oh, he's like, what happened? I was like, I had one ball left, brah. But. Oh, yeah, actually, that reminds me, yeah, Lord of the Rings is the other game I have. That one's at my house.
    60:15
    Good. It's actually in its own little room. It's like, there's like a Lord of the Rings movie poster in that room.
    60:21
    And like a TV with, you know, gaming consoles and stuff. It's like the little media room. Yeah. And yeah, Lord of the Rings. I had to, I bought one of those when one came up because that's one of my favorites. You have to. Yep. I've almost always owned one. I've probably had six of them. I'm stupid.
    60:38
    I'll have another one at some point. There's something else I'm going to ask. Damn it. Well, hey, Lord of the Rings, you guys should remake it. Tell your boss and everyone, like, hey, remake it again. So I don't have to buy it. I'll buy a new one, and then I'll just keep it.
    60:52
    All right. Is there a game that you are surprised you like? I don't even know if this is a good question for you, because you've played every game in the world. but a game that you've heard like, oh, that's trash, and you play like, no, I really like this game. I mean, you said Family Guy, honestly. When you said Family Guy, I was like, oh, what, really?
    61:08
    But, yeah, is there a game to you that you're surprised you like? I mean, honestly, I have a Turtles now, and I actually really like it, and I never thought I would like it because it was kind of always in competitions, and it was always so brutal, and I didn't understand how to get points in it, and it was always just kind of kicking your ass. And I never really gave it the time of day, but now that I've played it a bunch, it's like, oh, it's got some sweet, like it rewards you for getting those Mondo jackpots with the upper flipper and the super jackpot under the flipper. Like it's got good stuff in there and good moments.
    61:47
    So that was a vastly underrated game until I really sank my teeth into it. I don't want to say I love hate with the game because it's almost like a hate-hate with the game. I love the theme, you know, it's turtles. But everything about, it was just for me the reliance on the middle ramp, the left flipper. I don't know what it is, the geometry to me. I'm so used to, like, the warp ramp, you know, that type of feel, or the rush where it just, okay, it always feels in the sweet spot, or Jurassic Park and the tower. Yeah, it's a little bit later on the turtles. It's not quite in the, I know what you mean. But do you have it now down, like, for you? Can you hit it, like, consistently every time now? I mean, I kind of fairly reliably, but not every time now. I mean, it's always a chance that you'll miss it. I mean, probably only 50% accurate, if I'm being honest. But that's, you know, that's still. Yeah. But for you, with the warp ramp, would you put up there more like 75%? I think so, yeah. I think it's a little wider and a little more in the middle of the flipper, probably. Okay. Do you have a favorite game right now, overall? What's the game that you're loving to play right now? I mean, the usual answer to that is usually Simpsons Pinball Party. Jeez.
    63:05
    Used to play that Simpsons game. You ever play that Addams Family game with the hand that comes out of the box? That's a cool game. I bet that's a good game. You got that game? You like Simpsons? Yeah, I just struggle. I don't like this game. I'm sorry to all the pinball Simpsons fans out there. I'm not trying to rag on it to be cool. Fuck Simpsons, man. I mean, just sit on this game. We did. We shit all over it. We shit all over one of the most popular... You're bringing me down a level because I don't think I've rated anything this low on my... Because that's the game that I had owned because it was like my dream game. I finally got it and I just played it so much. I played it every day all the time. So, so much that eventually I had to just sell it because I had burned myself out on it. because I played so many games on it. And then I actually ended up buying another one here just like a year ago, and the same thing happened. I just played it too much, and eventually I'm like, all right, I've got to sell it again.
    64:09
    So now – but then it was cool. It was in the Illinois State Finals. I got to pick it at my game seven.
    64:19
    And I played it for like an hour and a half, and the tournament went to like four in the morning. and it felt pretty good. And then the next day I think that game was gone from that location. I'm like, no more. No more Simpsons. Just throw it in the trash. We can't be doing that. You reminded me of a question I was going to ask earlier. Have you gotten to Valinor? Oh, yeah. I think I've done it once on my game at home. And before that I had done it once on location,
    64:48
    which the location game was pretty friendly. the slings weren't very live, you know, that sort of thing.
    64:56
    How does it feel getting there? Does it feel pretty good? Oh, it feels pretty good because you have to destroy the ring, and if you don't, now you have to play all the multiballs again, and it's kind of like that one precious moment of like, all right, this is it, you know. And it's a two-ball, right? Like it's dangling in the magnet?
    65:17
    Yeah, I don't know if that's the default setting, but if it's not, You should change it. Yeah. Right. So correct me if I'm wrong, because I probably am. I haven't gotten to Valinor because, you know, I'm human. You have to get, beat all three multiballs, get all the gifts from the elves, and then destroy the ring. Is there anything else?
    65:42
    You have to play all the ring modes and play there and back again. There and back again. Okay. You have to beat all the ring modes. I guess to get the gifts of the elves, you've got to at least... Yeah, so honestly, beating each of the multiballs will get you a gift of the elves. So that's half of the gifts right there. Although you actually need seven because you need six. And then after you get all six, if you get a seventh, you actually get a secret gift of the elf that you need. Which is pretty... Yeah, I won't spoil it. I don't want to get one again. But the last time I had a Lord of the Rings, the last time I was like, I'm going to try this time. But it's such a grind.
    66:18
    It's a commitment. You're signing up for an evening. Like, yeah, that's for sure. And if I got close, like to your point, if I get to the point where I'm like on that last shot and I don't make it, I'm going to throw a fit. I am going to throw a fit and whine and, damn it.
    66:41
    How about a least annoying or a most annoying moment in the game? For me, for example, I don't like looping supers because I used to love them in Ghostbusters, but then after a while, I'm just like, I just want to. Because you can't even drain it out. You have to hit it to start it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I definitely don't like it when you're locked out of something or you accidentally, like Congo, you accidentally start the satellite mode. Everyone loves that. It's like bashing on those satellite targets. It basically turns everything off. there's a couple of yeah a couple of moments like that like even turtles I get annoyed if I'm in a tournament and I just want to start turtle power and it falls down into that foot lane and now I can't start turtle power because it's doing the 1, 2, 3 foot combo can you time it out? you can yeah but it's still like I had it all ready I just needed to hit the shot and now it messes with you But even then, like, I don't know. Other things that annoy me are games that, like, reset all your progress at the end of the ball, where you were one thing away, and now all of a sudden nothing you did mattered. Or actually like KISS kind of annoys me because the way the play multiplier works is every time you beat a thong you get another multiplier but at the end of the ball they all go away So you could play just as good as someone else but because they did it all on one ball they have like ten times your score Yeah. That's kind of annoying. That's my favorite thing about Jurassic Park, the newer Jurassic Park, is that aside from, you know, multi-balls or whatever and wizard modes, even though they have a very, very generous ball save, But, like, the amount of progress, like, all right, you drained, cool. You're still working on the rescues. You're still in the paddock. You're still, like, you can keep. And that, for me, it's so disheartening in certain games where, yeah, the mode just ends if the ball ends. You're just like, oh, that's done. Like Avengers or something. Like, oh, cool. Next. No offense. I guess you're going to that game.
    68:54
    But, you know, for me, I like to, it seems like everything historically pinball is all based on time. hurry hurry hurry time hurry up and for me sometimes i just want to chill even the lord of the rings mode sometimes i think the timer is like too fast to where you suddenly hear frodo far shut up dude shut up yeah no i think that's not on purpose to make you try to drain right that's what they say yeah you gotta just ignore it yeah okay well thanks for uh letting us get to know about let's talk about foo fighters because man that is is it out officially march 13th. I don't know. You guys have been shipping them? I don't even know. They should be getting out soon. I would think so, because they did all the gameplay streams.
    69:40
    Yeah. Yeah, they should be arriving in people places soon. I put a deposit down to Flippin' Out Pinball for a premium, so I'm buying a premium day one. So I'm really excited for that. I know a bunch of bars are getting the pro around where I live. I mean, the design team was Jack, Tanio, Zombie Yeti, you, who am I missing? Or is that the mains?
    70:12
    I mean, that's the creative team, I guess I would say. There's tons of people involved in making it actually happen. Mechanical engineers and artists and everyone.
    70:27
    So what did you do in this game? I know people haven't played it. You know, maybe that's a very loaded question. But earlier you mentioned, like, sometimes you worked where someone kind of did the overall design and you got these little pieces to work on. Was it similar here? Or what pieces of this code? People don't really know the reference because they haven't played much of it, but what can you say that you worked on in this game specifically?
    70:49
    Yeah, I mean, I basically, like, implemented the van modes, the shot patterns and the scoring, and then all the Overlord multiball. Well, Tanya kind of set up the Overlord mechanism with the locking forks and that sort of thing. That's the game we viewed up there. Yeah.
    71:09
    But I kind of did like the rules of like how many hits to start and the jackpot sequences and that sort of thing.
    71:18
    And then also just the – well, we all kind of collaborated on the rules of like how you build the foobot, like what you should do to get the different parts of the foobot um but at the end of the day like i was the one that actually you know put in all the code and and implemented things um so i kind of yeah i basically just did all the the rulesy stuff um the we actually had another person mike kiss of it working and he helped implement a lot of the light effects and speech call outs and and that sort of thing. And then, of course, Tanya also putting in stuff like that and making the game rock.
    71:58
    So it was a very good collaborative effort, for sure. And you said the van modes. Are those, like, the main modes of the game? Is that, like, the progress towards wizard modes? Yeah, so there's a couple different wizard modes. There's the van modes, which are your main six modes.
    72:16
    You shoot the white arrow, spell van, like map on Jurassic Park. Nice. And then you shoot the van, and you can choose which mode, which city to play. And all your cities carry their progress, so if you drain out or time out and you restart it, you'll get to continue where you left off. Yeah, yay! Yeah, right? Thank you. Yep, you do have to spell van again, but luckily it doesn't get any harder to spell van until you actually complete a mode, and then it'll get a little bit harder and harder each time you complete a mode. Okay. And then also, before you start the mode, if you visit the mod shop, which are the drop targets in the middle. Yep. You hit those down, and then you bash the paddle target behind it. There's like a big target behind those drop targets. Is that like a layer? Yeah, exactly. Okay. And so you can bash that as many times before time runs out, and that will level up your van. So when you start a mode, if you have the bomb weapon thing on top of their awesome van, if you have that leveled up, you'll start with, you know, maybe six or seven shots already done for you. And so it's like, you know, the mode's way easier to beat. Or you could level up your speakers, which I think help with the scoring. Like you just get more points. Or the engine, which adds more time. So you get way more time to do the mode. So you can kind of either dive right into a mode, but it might be kind of hard. Or you can level up your van, and now it's kind of like a team up on Deadpool.
    73:41
    Oh, nice. And so that whole, all those cities, they progress towards two of the wizard modes, which is Austin, which is a city that you can choose, and that's a multi-ball wizard mode, or DC, so once you beat three cities completely, you can get Austin, and when you get all six, you get DC.
    74:03
    Okay. And you can, like I said, you can choose which cities to play in what order. So if you're, like, almost done with your third city, you probably want to go back, finish it so you can get Austin. Or you can pick another city because when you start Austin, the more modes that you've beaten on the first try, that will boost your jackpot. So there's kind of like those little rules that I kind of put in to kind of help make it interesting. And so you're not just grinding modes to get to the wizard mode. There's actually the van mods to think about. There's which modes I should play in which order. and then the other kind of wizard mode in the game is the Fubot multiball which you have to collect Can I ask you, when you're saying that I'm looking at the playfield right now the alien with the green head is that the overlord or is that just in the main playfield, is that just a minion dude?
    74:56
    The overlord? Yeah, I mean, is that the overlord? In the middle of the playfield is the guy with the green skull and the glasses on Yes. That's the overlord? So in his hand he's got these schematics That's the foobot, right? And that's what you're saying? You have to build? How do you build that? So if you notice, the inserts are kind of arranged where there's like a head, a body, the arms and the legs. Yeah. And basically the different game features, so like the Overlord multiball, which is all bashing the dude with the captive ball, throwing those multiballs. If you get like a super jackpot in the Overlord multiball, you'll get the head or something. Actually, I think the head might be Area 51 because Dave Grohl is the head because each FUBOP part corresponds to a band member as well and kind of vaguely associated with that area. So, like, Dave Grohl is on the right ramp, so he's Area 51.
    75:53
    And so there's different things. Like, for Taylor, he's the side ramp. That's the Combotron mode. and when you do the band members feature you'll actually get double scoring on that band members shot so you can actually try to get foobot parts and then combo them with the modes you want to get double shot values and things but the double scoring might go away at the end of the ball but you'll get to keep your body part so if you just get all six that's the foobot wizard mode Ah. Yeah, so it's been fun trying to, like, I want things that are fun but not impossible, but I also want bonuses for people that go out of their way to do kind of the hard stuff. I like that, you know, you get the main modes, right, the van mode stuff, and then this FooBot thing reminds me of, what are they called in Iron Maiden, when you complete stuff? Also, it's like gifts from the elves. You actually do it, and then you get something, and then in Iron Maiden, what are they called in the right orbit? Oh, the Tomb Awards. Yeah, similar to that. Right. You get these kind of like static things. Like you said, you might get the two times it'll go away, but you'll still build towards this thing. So there's the main van modes. There's the foobot. And then there's – how many multiballs are there in here?
    77:11
    There's the overlord multiballs. So there's three of them. So if you've played Rush, you know kind of how that works, where each time it's harder to start, but you'll get – it'll be better and better multiballs. So your first multiball on the Overlord is only a couple of shots to lock the ball and then release it. But it's only a two-ball multiball. Then the next time, you've got to do a lot more shots, but it'll be a three-ball multiball. And then the third one is a four-ball. And those are, I think, All My Life, Monkey Wrench, and The Pretender. Yes.
    77:42
    Yes. And there's, like, all these story – they have a story to them. So every time you advance towards the multiball, you can see on the screen, like, oh they're being chased by the overlord like oh they got abducted by the overlord like oh they now they're facing now they're battling him um or in the uh the pretender the overlord actually is like performing a concert at like pretending to be the foo fighters i think i'm not sure you have to ask uh there's a whole lore and and story to this that i i still haven't quite wrapped my head around, but it's all in the game. Because they made up their own TV show, right? Or something? Yeah. Yeah, it's like the Foo Fighters. Yeah, it's a whole thing.
    78:28
    And then the other multi-ball is just... What's that? Go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say what you were saying. Yeah, the other multi-ball is the Area 51, so that's shooting the right ramp. On the Premium, you've got to basically use the upper play field and hit the green targets, then shoot the inner loop and then shoot the outer loop and then hit the there's like a diverter that opens up and that diverter reveals the the super jackpot target um which is how you start the multi-ball um but i made it so that on the premium at least on default settings every time you hit the right ramp it'll kind of advance you so even if because i was finding you shoot the ramp and then you'd instantly drain on the upper play field and you're like oh now i gotta go back up there again like so now it's like every time you hit the ramp it will advance you but if you're good you could just skip all the way through and start the multiball right away with the upper flipper.
    79:21
    So some of those would be the first shot to that right ramp. They could theoretically get to the multiball. They could, although it's pretty hard. That upper flipper, there's a big gap, and it's pretty fast up there.
    79:36
    But you could, yeah. Whereas the pro, it's always five shots to the right ramp starts the multiball. And you can actually stack those. So if you play Overlord first, you can also bring in Area 51 and have both of them going. Ah, that's pretty sweet. And I think I know the answer to this, but you cannot backhand the right ramp, right? Nah.
    79:59
    I don't think so. I mean, not from a trap. No, it's pretty steep. But I've seen balls fly up there, like you save a ball and it flies up there from the right flipper. Oh, okay. It looks like it's a very similar shot to, like, the Jurassic Park right ramp. Does it feel pretty good? Yeah, kind of. Yeah? Okay. Yeah, it's kind of that or the Rush Rite Ramp even. Ah, yep, yep. All right, so you have done these awesome, I don't know if it's in response to Joel, but these baby's first, you know, rules videos online of Rush and Led Zeppelin, I think AIQ as well.
    80:33
    And you might do it on this as well. For those who don't know, you basically simplify the rules as much as you can into like a five-minute video or it might be even shorter. And they're really awesome. would you mind, no one's really playing this yet, maybe they are by the time they hear this, people are going to start getting these like now. You don't have to go into a five-minute, but what should someone who just walks up to this and play it, what would your suggestion be of like when you start playing Foo Fighters for the first time, do this and you'll have fun?
    81:02
    Yeah, basically spell Van, so hit some white shots, get your Overlord ball locked, so hit the Overlord targets and then lock it in the Overlord mech. Start your van mode and then bash the Overlord. Now you've got the mode and the multi-ball, always a winning combination.
    81:22
    Also, when you skill shot at the beginning of your ball, plunge with intent because there's so many different options, and it kind of depends on the state of your game. So if you want your van mods, you can actually plunge into the drop targets, and depending on when you hit it, it will actually instantly give you one of the mods. So if you find that the modes are taking too long and there's too many shots, at the beginning of all, if you plunge into the bomb upgrade, now you've just made it two or three less shots for you the next time you start a mode. You can also plunge super short into that little side lane on the right with the rockometer, which is how you get your playfield multiplier. So you can kind of help advance that if you want that. You can also full plunge, and it goes up the side ramp, and then you can shoot the... Oh, does it really? It goes all the way up the side ramp? Yeah, yeah. That's how Jack made it so that when you full plunge, it goes up that side ramp. So now you can hit the left crossover shot, which then kind of jumps across, up around the horseshoe thing to the upper slipper. And now you can hit the side ramp again, and it's like a six-way combo. So every time you do it, you get more and more hands clapping, and you get more and more skill shot points. And then, of course, there's also the secret skill shots, which are the left in lane, left out lane.
    82:45
    And I think there's another skill shot too, probably the targets on the left if you hit those. Okay, good. So, yeah, start a mode, get a multi-ball, and can you stack? I know how you said you can stack Overlord and Area 51. Can you stack mode, Overlord, and Area 51? Yeah, yep. So start your mode. You can only start a mode if you're not in a multiball, so you always got to do that first. Okay. Then you can do Overlord, and then you can do Area 51.
    83:14
    Or if you start Area 51, now you can't do Overlord, but you can do a mode and Area 51. Okay. Yeah, but meanwhile, also another advice I have for this game is just keep hitting combos because those things get juicy and give you a lot of points. yeah um every every shot you hit will actually light little combo tron inserts and they'll keep changing color the more and more you hit them and you want to try to get them to red that's like the highest level and so once those things you get those to red that that circle thing underneath yeah the little circle lights um yeah if you get those to red now you're getting probably like million combos um depending on on kind of how many you hit and which ones you hit and so those points can add up quick so don't be once you're in a combo just keep comboing out and you'll probably just rack up the points even if like a mode shot isn't lit there it's worth just hitting things kind of like on Deadpool with how every shot has the weapons so you want to just keep ripping shots for sure and last question I have and this is probably in the rules or whatever but those lane shots like the shats, targets, I don't know what else to call them, you know what I mean, by the slings. What do those do? Those stand up? They are shot multipliers. So if you hit that target for about five seconds, you'll have double scoring.
    84:42
    For one shot or total? No, it's just a timed thing. So if you hit a couple shots within five seconds, they'll all be multiplied. It's just a really, it's a burst of double scoring. but it can also be on top of the plate field multiplier, which you get by shooting the right orbit and building up your rockometer, which can go to 2x or 3x. So then if you have that running and you use the ray gun, now you can get 4x or 6x for a couple seconds. So it's fun because it provides some really good bursts of points, and you can kind of risk, like, do I want to try to shoot this because I have my super jackpot lit, you know, that sort of thing.
    85:21
    All right. I guess I lied. I have one last question. What's your favorite shot in the game? Oh, I mean, it's hard to go wrong with that left crossover. That thing is so cool. It's like the katana shot where it goes left and right, up around to your upper flipper. But my favorite shot sequence is just going center spinner, side ramp, center spinner, side ramp. I could do that all day because that side ramp feels so good. And it's very friendly. It's like the opposite of the turtle side ramp. Like the ball just sucks it up there. Yeah. Oh, man. Okay, let's leave it at that. I'm excited. Let's let everyone else wait and go play this thing. Man, thanks for joining me. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk Foo Fighters and honestly get very personable. Some of those questions, I really appreciate it. And honestly, you're one of my favorite things about being in the TPN Discord. The comments you have. I mean, even for those who don't know, when people are talking call it smack or whatever or giving feedback about, say, rush rules or whatever you want to call it, you're listening and you're actually, from what I see, like you're caring. Like, oh, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? I mean, it's really nice to see, to hear, to like be around your positive pinball stuff. Yeah, I mean, you can't cater to everyone's opinions or wishes, but you can kind of aggregate the feedback and, yeah, just kind of check the pulse on things. and, you know, especially if it's something you worked really hard on and then people are, like, not seeing the work you put in, you're like, well, it's there. Right, yeah. And you have a good, you know, what you're trying to do is like, oh, no, it's there, just let me help you get there, as opposed to, like, you couldn't take the other approach and tell people to F off, but I assume the same with this game. You know, when this game comes out, I'm sure you'll do tweaks and updates and you'll probably be open to feedback and all that, but this thing just looks like a home run out of the box, so congrats on all the hard work I'm glad it's shipping you know are you working on stuff soon are you going to be back to work doing other games yeah I mean I'm working on Foo Fighters until it's 1.0 and beyond well thanks again for joining have a good night best of luck to you on your future coding stuff it's during thanks man been a pleasure we'll talk to you later thank you Ray Day for joining That was awesome. Thanks for all the news on Foo Fighters. It was great to hear more about competitive play because I don't know shit. That's all I have this week at the pinball party. You know, you should really listen to the latest free play on the Pinball Network with Amanda and George Gomez. Awesome information. Pay attention. Listen to what he's saying. You might hear some stuff, some games, maybe one that's really hard to find. Maybe it's going to be remade. I don't know. listen to it. Awesome interview. She does a ton of prep. It was something to learn from. In fact, I did a little more prep this time with Ray Day than I would have normally. So, thanks Amanda for setting the bar.
    88:27
    Also, I know Gomez mentioned they're working on channel sales-ish, or that strategy. You're out there for listening. I myself work in channel sales. Would love to help out if I can. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Let me know. Happy to talk. Anyway, I think we're going to have a Flippin' Out with Friends. I think I'll be on there this week.
    88:52
    Wednesday. Yeah, this Wednesday. Myself, I think Doc Monday's going to be there. Don't hold me to it, but I'm pretty sure. I'm not sure what else is going to be released this week on the Pinball Network. Do I have the last three episodes on here? God, I've got to stop. Next week, I think we'll have some JJP info on the pinball party. I'm going on site this week. Thank you, Ken, for the invite. I'm going to go play some of your godfathers, shoot them shits for a while, give my thoughts when I come back.
    89:25
    Until next time, feel free to help the show out on the Patreon, the Pinball Party Patreon, or send me an email, pinballpartypodcasts at gmail.com. Specifically, if you have any horror stories of the secondary market, I want an influx of these. I want way too many. I would love to read them. That's some of my favorite shit to hear from. So we can empathize. We can feel sorry for you. We can say, wow, that's fucked up. And maybe we can start making awards for the most fucked up secondary market stories. Anyways, email in. Listen next week. We'll see you later. Bye. I don't want to be dead wrong. I'm better than green, white, degenerate. It's in my mind.
    90:13
    I don't know if my friends see the jealousy We're free to hide together in a cycle of lies you