Avengers: Infinity Quest Pinball Machine Review (Stern Pinball, 2020) SDTM, 2021 AIQ

Straight Down the Middle·video·1h 2m·analyzed·Apr 18, 2021

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

SDTM reviews Avengers: Infinity Quest with divided opinions on layout difficulty and code complexity.

Summary

Straight Down the Middle reviews Stern Pinball's Avengers: Infinity Quest (2020), a Keith Elwin design released in fall 2020. Hosts Greg Bone and Zach Sharp provide detailed breakdown of layout, artwork, shot design, and code, with disagreement on overall quality—Greg rates artwork A-minus and layout A-plus, while Zach gives artwork A and layout B, citing frustration with precision requirements and overly strategic code. Both acknowledge the game's commercial success and competitive appeal despite mixed personal enjoyment.

Key Claims

Avengers: Infinity Quest is Stern Pinball's hottest title since Jurassic Park
high confidence · Greg: 'Avengers is probably the hottest title from Stern Pinball since Jurassic Park yeah since Jurassic Park another Keith Elwin game'
Jeremy Packer's artwork on Avengers is not his best work compared to Deadpool Premium
high confidence · Zach: 'I just it's not as good though that's not his best work there's things that throw me off' and comparing to 'Deadpool Premium that they did he took those characters and and blew it away'
The layout requires extreme precision with narrow margins for error, unlike Jurassic Park
high confidence · Zach: 'if you are off by the smallest amount you pay for it' and 'unlike Jurassic Park that you have a lot of bricks off of i still think that you can wind up with quite a few bricks and the problem with this game is is if you are off by the smallest amount you pay for it'
The code and rules are award-winning but overly strategic for casual play
high confidence · Zach: 'it is an award-winning code and rule set yes it has some of the greatest minds around pinball working on it yes' but 'for me my feel my preference i'm objectively grading this but my preference this is a C minus grade this code does nothing for me'
The bingo card mechanic remains unclear even to competitive players
high confidence · Zach: 'i still don't know what the damn bingo card is for the drop down targets and i've talked to really highly competitive pinball players Greg and they don't know'

Notable Quotes

“Avengers is probably the hottest title from Stern Pinball since Jurassic Park”
Greg Bone@ 2:15 — Establishes the game's commercial dominance in the market
“this is an A plus designed shot layout it just is it's not...this is his smoothest most flowing game he's created”
Greg Bone@ 16:17 — Strong endorsement of Keith Elwin's shot design innovation despite Zach's B rating
“i still don't know what the damn bingo card is for the drop down targets and i've talked to really highly competitive pinball players Greg and they don't know”
Zach Sharp@ 25:11 — Highlights a major rules complexity issue that confuses even expert players
“i don't like when you have to rely upon exploitation of different coding strategies to do great”
Zach Sharp@ 25:01 — Articulates philosophical disagreement with competitive-focused game design
“you're either getting into that sling that's going to the about the outlanes and you're done or it's going Straight Down the Middle or straight to an outlane off a post”
Zach Sharp@ 18:22 — Describes frustrating ball flow consequences of missed shots
“this is his smoothest most flowing game he's created it's different for him”
Zach Sharp@ 22:59 — Acknowledges innovation despite overall layout rating concerns

Entities

Avengers: Infinity QuestgameKeith Elwinperson Jeremy Packerperson Greg BonepersonZach SharppersonStraight Down the Middle: a pinball showmediaRaymond Davidsonperson Oscar H. Rayperson

Signals

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business_signal: Avengers: Infinity Quest is commercially dominant title—'you can't keep them in stock' and 'hottest title from Stern Pinball since Jurassic Park'—indicating strong market demand despite mixed critical reception
high · Greg: 'they're selling really well i can tell you that much yeah people are loving it you can't keep them in stock Avengers is probably the hottest title from Stern Pinball since Jurassic Park'
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community_signal: Straight Down the Middle establishing itself as major pinball media with early access to games, manufacturer relationships (acknowledging team members), and community sponsorship (Flippin' Out Pinball likely sponsor based on context)
medium · Detailed credits of Stern team members, PayPal donation mention, discussion of merchandise (t-shirts) and equipment upgrade plans
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sentiment_shift: Strong polarization between casual/accessibility-focused players and competitive/strategy-focused players regarding Avengers appeal and design merit
high · Entire review tension between Zach's critique of forced strategy/gems and Greg's endorsement of layout design and competitive depth
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competitive_signal: Avengers: Infinity Quest identified as upper echelon competitive machine with complex gem strategy system requiring advance planning; Raymond Davidson and competitive players exploit code mechanics that casual players find frustrating
high · Zach: 'it is an award-winning code and rule set yes it has some of the greatest minds around pinball working on it yes uh Raymond Davidson the great...everything yes for me my feel my preference i'm objectively grading this but my preference this is a C minus grade'
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Topics

Layout design and shot difficultyprimaryArtwork quality and Jeremy Packer's styleprimaryRules complexity and code strategyprimaryComparison to Keith Elwin's other designsprimaryThird flipper placement and ball flowprimaryCommercial success and market receptionsecondaryCompetitive vs casual player appealsecondaryGem collection mechanics and strategysecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Greg is enthusiastic (A/A-minus grades) while Zach is critical (B/C-minus grades). Both acknowledge commercial success and technical merit, but disagree on playability, precision requirements, and artistic execution. Underlying tension about whether competitive depth or casual accessibility matters more.

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

[Music] [Applause] hey what's going on all you sex pistols out there this is straight down the middle with greg and zach how you doing boney man i'm doing good man what are we doing today we are doing avengers infinity quest little thanos i tried but you're gonna come out as good as you're gonna go binary this episode isn't that a call out that isn't call out that you're kept under we all know that stern pinball developed this game it was released september-ish uh early fall of 2020 so we're not even a year old for those watching current um we know that this was a Keith Elwin design yeah this is his third game yes an iron maiden jurassic park and then avengers infinity quest and everybody loves Keith Elwin games greg you got to collect them it's like the the new coming of a pinball designer uh so we've got that zombie yeti on artwork he's kind of the pinball god in our opinions uh so we've got a lot going on in this game how is it going to fare between you and i's grades is it our type of game is it not uh they're selling really well i can tell you that much yeah people are loving it you can't keep them in stock avengers is probably the hottest title from stern pinball since jurassic park yeah since jurassic park another keith elwin game so we're going to go through all of the uh the layout the art the code the design enjoyability but first we need to do a walk-through but before we do a walk-through i have a very special thank you oh it's not to you very special thank you goes out uh from greg and i to a lucas sullivan thank you luke lucas sullivan gave us a donation and what i did is i told greg about half of that donation so that i can get no i'm joking i wouldn't but no it was it was very gracious and as a reminder to help support uh straight down the middle and all that we're doing here you can always we have a paypal it's sdt and pinball gmail.com i'll be very gracious we don't uh other than that we don't we're not always asking for money or anything but if people want to help up upgrade the equipment we have some big things in the future we're working towards a nice gimbal a gimbal we do need a nice gimbal for the dslr that's the one thing we're missing uh maybe some additional lighting would be nice um some tracks tracks right now we're doing some builds correct build a big track though we got some big promo stuff coming up from some of these pinball companies so any help is is warranted and would help but we do have t-shirts uh we're in the process of design now i know a lot of you guys want t-shirts so we will do that a long time coming all my fault it surely has been not all of it but most of it let's jump to you're going to give us an overview of this game i am let's do it right now here we are with 2020 stearns avengers infinity quest i'll give you guys a real quick overview just so you get an idea of the layout some of the shots within the game and this is the pro your premium and led are going to vary a little bit uh custom form over here to the we'll start with the left here are your inlanes and the ever brutal outlanes and you'll see the ir there that's part of iron for your iron man avenger to the right of that you have a three bank set of drop targets which is responsible for your bingo card when you hear us talk about that that is what we're referring to and i will in no way at all attempt to explain to you how that bingo card works with the drop targets because zach nor i completely understand it to the right of that is your hulk orbit with your gamma ray spinner and that orbit goes up around the back and it's not a full complete orbit it comes up and it actually exits out in between these pops that are tucked back into the back left and will come down towards the middle of the pin to the right of that is your third flipper your third upper flipper to the right of that flipper is your awesome tower shot and basically that shot goes up towards the back it goes vertical up a 90 degree bend into the tower shot which has a magnet at the top and will lock a ball one ball at a time and then release it after it has been locked so it's not a full physical lock but it is sort of a physical lock to the right of that we have our sanctum target back there and our doctor strange spinner you hit that post there and it will cause revolutions on that spinning disc helping you spell strange sometimes if you get a real good clean shot you can spell strange all in one hit sometimes it might take multiple hits and as you progress that is what helps you that's what helps start a mode help start a gym and collect to be able to bring you that gym and as you progress through gyms it takes more spins and more revolutions to actually spell strange to be able to to start a gym mode to the right of that is your captain america shot very tight shot and that is the opposite from your hulk and that goes up through the pop sometimes you get caught in the pops obviously but if you get a good clean straight shot then you're going to come up around again just the opposite of hulk and return out of that lane down to your left flipper down here to the right of that is your black widow ramp fairly steep ramp comes up does a 180 comes down loops around the tower down the side of the pin and goes to your left flipper to the right of that this is a shot that is makeable off that third flipper and your left and right bottom flippers um it has kind of this fat wide bulge into it which is part of the reason of what makes it uh makeable from all three flippers and that comes up does another one of uh maybe a little beyond the 180 here and come down and it's not a full ramp it returns actually down here to your third flipper so you can just keep repeating that shot if you need to and that is also where you collect your gems so after you uh get those revolutions and get strange built up this is actually where you will hit to start your gym mode or to collect your gym once you have beat one of those gym modes to the right of that is your upper inner orbit which is off of your third flipper and that just loops around comes up the back ramp there's a back ramp back there that'll go if you don't hit it hard enough then you'll end up into the pops which is hard to kind of see in between there but you'll see that if you don't hit it hard enough then you'll wind up trickling behind that left ramp into the pops and then come out of that that captain america area if you do hit it hard enough it will most of the time come up and go up this back ramp back here come around and that crosses the play field and comes over and returns to your right flipper to the right of that we go down a little lower and this is your captain marvel shot it's just this little tiny inner orbit type thing with a nice captain marvel spinner on there it's a nice little spinner to rip to the bottom right of that is your thor shot and that's just a captive ball you hit that for your thor and to the right of that is your right orbit and that is your black panther and that black panther is another one of those ones just like that inner orbit off of that third flipper that will come up if you hit it hard enough and it will go up that back ramp loop around across the play field and go to your bottom right flipper to the bottom right of that is your ant-man shot and it is a stand-up target so you come off of your your left flipper come up into there and it's just a little tucked in ant-man target back there uh to the bottom of that is again in lane out lane ever brutal outlaying on that side as well and that's finishing your iron man with the o and the n so there is your basic layout of avengers infinity quest some pretty tough shots but very good flow send it back over to zach and i and we'll give you guys a breakdown of the game not too bad there greg too bad a little bit confusing because you overviewed the pro model because that's what you own yeah we are reviewing today the premium le mans yes um and the reason we're doing that is because i think it would be best to review if we're going to review a game a title we might as well give it their best presentation whether it's artwork on the premium la whether it's the toys on the premium la any innovation that sneaks in there on the producers it doesn't necessarily do the pro justice but if we're just talking about the pro then it can turn a lot of people off who aren't familiar with the game and they don't understand that there is more in another pin and another and we're going to give these uh people our feedback on the pro too yeah like in there yeah what's missing sprinkling the pro in there yeah the pro really really quick before we go into the categories i want to give a shout out to all of the team members we're not going to get them all but some of the keystone people here we've got Keith Elwin on design we've got harrison drake harrison drake is a hell of an engineer over there yes hell of an engineer um i want i want to hear about harrison drake uh and elliot a little bit more over at stern pinball we have software by mike kizevet rig nagel rick nagle's always hand in hand with Keith Elwin and our buddy ray yeah raymond davidson only the greatest pinball player in the world right now uh we have zombie yeti aka Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) on artwork always famous animation more of our buddies yes chuck ernst uh charles ernst and joshua Joshua Clay shout out to those guys sound oh boy jared thompson jerry thompson on sound also a little teamwork here yeah avengers assembled on this one yeah so we've got uh what that was really good jerry thompson uh in addition to the music by Kendall Hale yeah Kendall Hale hail the hell thank all of you guys Kendall Hale did a lot of a lot of games i really enjoy yeah you showed me that i do like jerry though i like jared hey jerry i like all those guys i i don't dislike any of them people no those are good i do like them now they might dislike us after this i don't care all right let's jump into artwork people want to know they've been asking us forever greg when are you going to review the avengers it's only the hottest title from stern pinball in the last couple years what the hell is going on well we were both we were both pretty high up on that yeah we were well what are you doing though a minus yeah it only won awards this year it's only here jeremy packers yeah i know you were in love with it i just it's not is good though that's not his best work there's things that throw me off i don't know what throws i don't know like the comment like i know it's it's it's not the movie it's more of a comic book but they were almost too um i don't know how to explain i won't say plain i can't say they're too plain they they they just weren't rich enough in detail i don't feel they didn't exude enough character yes like i mean you look at something like deadpool that they did he took those characters and and blew it away and i'm always going to compare it to deadpool always going to compare it to deadpool which you said was too red and a backtrack i think i know what you're talking about um there's not a richness to the characters they're they're some of them are almost don't shoot me um uh generic uh i like some of them i can't everybody i can't agree because when i see that bottom third with all of the superheroes thing is spectacular no i the bottom third is not you got captain america with his shield on the play field it's not bad oh the placement of the shield was fantastic over the the for the ball savings then you got the black order with the thanos up mid play field man i just can't get i don't know there's just some of the car i'm not saying all the character thanos is freaking wonderful now thanos does have a lot of character on the premium le cabinet and backlash sitting uh first on his throne yes that looks really good thanos not to get in the call thanos call out wise art wise thanos is kind of the saving grace to me on a lot of aspects on the artwork yeah i'm gonna i'm at an a i think it's some of the something a minus it's still great that's what i'm saying i'm in an a obviously higher than you um because i value zombie yeti and jeremy you've always loved the world you have always like from the time this came out you said that is stellar artwork i love the artwork it's so beautiful i have been the opposite i love it it's so great but it's just not my favorite piece okay and i mean i maybe that's why i'm in there jeremy like the hard thing is is like yeah he's critiqued to a different level i think than other artists just because his stuff is so good all this is in his own yeah that you have to compare his artwork to his other artwork you're not necessarily which can be unfair to it yeah you're because you're i'm i'm to the point where i'm just comparing him against himself okay i think that's kind of what i did too with an a because it stands out it's an a plus compared to all the other artists in pinball yeah name a better artist i agree i agree so i'm just comparing which again maybe comes out a little unfair on the grade but he has set that standard if another artist would have set that standard we would be comparing him to that artist the only reason i'm not an a plus is because it wasn't as dynamic as turtles and on the premium le version greg i feel like there was a lot of replication on that cabinet we have both left and right side we're mirrored um i always like whenever you offer two different sides but they integrate well into one another yeah so you get a little matchy there we're on turtles he did two different uh dude two different illustrations and then you still have that same uh orientation or composition a little bit on the back glass with him on that throne so it's it's thanos heavy which is fine yeah but the reason it's not an a plus is because you mirrored those cabinet articles wow of all things yep you get it you got to put in you got to put in more work but that's not really the art that's i mean it i mean it's the layout of the art that might not be him somebody might be a time thing take a few hours off there jeremy and i mean if you think about the premium le on the back glass only differs from the mirroring again think about turtles pro premium la all different illustrations very very so i can't give you an a plus on that one let's move into shots and layout you were high whenever you rated this you rated this a b a b are you making fun of me you're just wrong i i have you've played so many pinball machines if you were a rookie or a noob i would get it but rating this layout a bee in my opinion is objectively wrong was it the time marvel ramp where's the ajax where'd you go a plus because that's the right answer this is an a plus designed shooter it just is it's not captain marvel ramp well what is it what don't you like that's black widow how's it the black widow no well no because i don't play the premium yeah there's a marble ramp over there yeah okay i don't play it see i just got a spinner so no oh do you really wanna where did you go first because i'm in an a plus a plus because if i can try to imagine five pinball machines in the last five years that shoot better ah i can't think of one i can't i mean what mine mine okay so my okay so i get where you're coming from because i've i was i struggled with this and i sat there and i played this is the only game i've played for when you've played that over a month ago so it's literally i play it every single day and i haven't gotten any better um i'll just play uh so here's where my problem is because i think that i think it's a basic layout there's nothing super special other than the the big wide mouth ramp i like hitting that off the third flipper i like that you can hit it from all three flippers that's fantastic that's that's a great innovation in shots yeah i think it's great um i'm not the power shot is good but i'm going to count that as a toy my it's very satisfying but i still take it as as a toy it's because it sticks it's a toy yeah okay that's where i'm going with it my main problem is is unlike jurassic park that you have a lot of bricks off of i still think that you can wind up with quite a few bricks and the problem with this game is is if you are off by the smallest amount you pay for it oh yeah you pay for it and i don't like that like jurassic park you can break the hell that thing you can go all over the place it you you don't necessarily pay for it it's like houdini you you can keep the ball going forever you just yeah and that's the way i feel drastic park is alice cooper but with avengers you pay for every [ __ ] missed shot that you make you're either getting into that sling that's going to the about the outlanes and you're done or it's going straight down the middle or straight to an outlaying off a post like i it becomes overly frustrating to be to have to be that precise to have fun on that game now to some people you're a good player it's not a big you watch ray day play it the dude don't miss so it's not a big deal and i'm an okay player but it it becomes overly frustrating sometimes if you're not on that okay i'm not on i'm not having a good game but i'm not on and all three balls were gone in a total of 35 seconds you're almost convincing me i went too high and the ramps like when you were talking about that i was thinking about i i don't like when designers have a third flipper or fourth flipper but third flipper that if you choose not to flip it goes straight down the middle don't do that no you cannot control it it shouldn't be required to use that flipper every single time and i watched ray they just hold the flipper up let it bounce off then you're out of the top of the sling but i think depending on the the smallest setup factors yep it's gonna bounce off of that hit that book and you're done so you can't do that so i've tried to just barely let me down at the right time and it still does not work and i'm like you like i should not have to flip that because the okay here's the bad thing is you hit that that little orbit that's that's not an easy shot to hit most of the time you're either going to break or you're going to hit the ramp again well where does that [ __ ] ramp take the ball back back to your third flipper now i'm starting all over again i like when we're trying to get that into control i like when designers i'm trying to think offhand i can't think off the top of my head when a designer have a third flipper and if you choose not to flip it it safely goes right back to a good shot on your primary flippers yeah i do like that jurassic park can be like that too if you don't use it but i feel hitting that third flipper shot my ball doesn't go anywhere real crazy like okay you know what i'm saying if i if i hit it avengers is straight down the middle from that straight down the middle and then like i said if you hold it up you're going to bounce off the top of the ceiling you're still rolling to b you're still wrong in a b i don't know maybe maybe it should be an a but maybe everything flows well oh it does thank god that keith ellen didn't put a loop like you did in jurassic park that is completely useless uh the loop in jurassic park is useless there's no point into it it's the best third flipper he's created no you think iron maiden was better you can repeat those loops in a satisfying you technically the the third flipper on avengers is better than the the flipper on jurassic park yes because i like that inner loop that goes up a ramp yes beautiful yes but it's tough this time but also like being able to hit the the ramp not like the right ramp that goes into an orb i love this layout i love this layout i like that left that left spinner that hulk spinner that goes into the pops i like to through the pops that through the pops is awesome what a cool shot as long as that spinner isn't in the way and then the most satisfying of all the shots is that that tower lock the tower locks power it is it's fantastic but i i think though that's where you're creating a balance like like where do you find the balance between what i explained and then what you just explained for me though where does that fall in like i guess maybe i'm too close to it maybe i played it too much it frustrates me i find more control in avengers than i do jurassic park or iron maiden i really do i feel like the bottom third he's designed right with bumpers that allow the ball a little bit more loft than they do no jurassic park kills me iron man it has to be a factor of manufacturing being in the nuts no iron maiden i can control uh iron jurassic park i have no problem with i like i said just bricks all day long but and it's not the most controllable but i'm not paying for it and it feels like his friendliest layout to me i don't um i think it needs i wish that can we give the guy some credit um immense credit this is kind of an innovation where he he bow-legged that's what i'm talking about about that wide mouth that weird ramp no it's fantastic when i hear bowl like the first thing i thought of was miss bone your mom so bad she'd be walking like this oh [ __ ] had a rough night zachary terribleness but no give the guy credit because that is some innovation to be able to hit one single ramp cleanly from three feet from all three of us it's ugly but it's fantastic and this is his smoothest most flowing game he's created it's different for him all of his drivers kind of flowy i mean jurassic park's super flowing it is flowy you got that center spinning it's just slower i guess in a sense than what this is it's this feels like a keith element without feeling like keith ellen it does it does i'm not i'm i'm he's a great we're at a you're at a b you're a little low there i'm going to a plus maybe a little too high what about rules and code okay we'll see where we're at you like it i do you're an a minus you love this game yeah but i didn't make money maybe i'm in a bad mood today i think so i'm actually not in a bad mood i've went back and forth on you got me here i have not been this back and forth on a pin probably since monsters really i don't know what that means but it doesn't feel good all together okay because i'm mixed i always go first a minus rules and code i am at a solid b okay then you go first i'll go first and then i'll end on a high here's my synopsis for the rules and code uh it is an award-winning code and rule set yes it has some of the greatest minds in pinball working on it yes uh raymond davidson the great uh nagel the great mike casavette love you on turtles um greatness yes competitive people say that this is everything you would want in a competitive base pinball machine yes it's the upper echelon this is everything yes for me my feel my preference i'm objectively grading this but my preference this is a c minus grade this code does nothing for me um you have to be a chuck accountant in order to fi i don't like thinking too hard about strategizing code and pinball i think the true and i've said it again or i've said it over and over the true greatness of a pinball player should mostly come from their ability to control the ball and to shoot accurately just like a sports star is yes i don't like when you have to rely upon exploitation of different coding strategies to do great and i feel like this is what this game requires you to do i still don't know what the damn bingo card is for the drop down targets and i've talked to really highly competitive pinball players greg and they don't know whenever you and it's i like the difficulty of this game i really like the difficulty of the modes the modes are difficult and i like that you it's a task but you get something in return then it's only taken away later on right but thanos but i do like that it is difficult to get through doesn't feel like much of a story i don't know what i'm doing uh much and the just the thing that burns me the most is you'll apply these damn gems to you get a gem but then it has a strategy but if you lay it on captain marvel it has one strategy versus hulk it has another i don't want to think that much no it's too much work i just want to play a pinball game only get through modes i want to tell stories i want to have moments i want to get to the wizard mode and that should dictate how good my score is and that's why it's so extremely appealing to the the competitive pit sure and and that's where i go back and forth why the heck stranger things feels too plain to them too flat to them i love strange i do too so when i when i first got this i i explored it and i was like this is this is good i called you and i was like dude this is this is i'm so sorry that it took me so long to own this and then i i'd kind of [ __ ] on it and so i was i was enthralled by the collecting of the gyms you shoot the disc you know build up strains then shoot the ramp for to start a mode all this stuff how do you build up strange again you did something strange there twirl it around build it up okay get that gym sorry i so i thought it was really great but then the more i played it i was like i'm not a fan of this oh because part of the strategy like i said i don't understand the [ __ ] bingo card stuff i can't i can't get it i i still can't comprehend it myself and maybe it's easy um but the thing with the gyms is like you said like like it's like any i guess it's like any pinball machine if you're gonna play it competitively but with this one i think it for whatever reason i feel it sticks it sticks out more because you're just going for a score to me mainly um but you know you want to go with a certain gym at a certain time so your pigeon holed into well hell okay what i got like five however many gyms there are to pick from six six five six of them but i need to i can only go with one of these two i need to start off with like a power gym or my time gym or something is what i need to take first so the bad thing is is that when you miss a gym and you don't get to collect that gym let's say on your first bowl it makes me feel like i really needed that or like the time gym or something like it's it's so important to my sk which i guess it really doesn't have anything to do with my scoring i feel like you've ruined it but i feel like i ruined it and i'm restarting the game uh if i screw up on one of those yeah but i think i'm overreacting to it because like i said from what i've you know your gyms maybe not necessarily it's just helping you progress yeah uh versus like the weird bingo board is more about scoring and points are there any moments in this game one gamma ray i can't wait i do like gamers i like gamma ray but but other than that i wish when you hit gamma-ray though it gave you an indication that you hit it like you ripped it good yeah but it just keeps on counting down i'm like no i hate it hurrying it up but yeah give me some kind of is there a soul gym is it soul gym you have so many flips left after you oh my gym mind jim is it mine jim the green one i know it's the green gym the mind yeah now that's cool that's the moment that's a neat moment and it it's not terrible one of those moments at the end of every gym yeah but if you're a decent like if you're like one of those weird mediocre players i found myself getting to that so over again yeah i'm like son of a [ __ ] give me something new like i wish there was some alternate like i wish it went through a cycle of like three mini wizards or something kind of like stranger things upside down used to always be the the front targets yeah but now it switches up to ramps yes okay it needs to vary a little bit like that and then the only other thing like i don't think it's a i don't think it's an overly easy game for whatever reason no like it's it's not to me it's not as smooth as it shoots it's not the easiest shooter and like you said those the modes when you're collecting gym yours plays really fast you're pro well i'm glad to hear that it's like just not me no your pros like snappy and fast because i have a hard like but it is like brand new though i feel like a tear like i feel like a horrible player play in this game no but if you click let's say you collect your gym and you like this but you you'll only like it until it happens to you which i did i think it's awesome too in a sense like randomly like someone's like oh my god man i just clicked i got three gems thank you for three gyms i work so hard and also thanos is here save your gems or whatever the [ __ ] whatever he does [ __ ] y'all and i'm like son of a [ __ ] man i gotta do what that was cute so now i gotta shoot whatever gym whatever whatever avenger my gym's on and then i have to shoot three other lit shots and then i gotta do it forever gym where it takes my damn gym i do like how ray day has coded trophies so trophies uh and it's not just mode base it's not just score based a number of different things to collect these trophies and if you get enough trophies you go into like its own wizard mode too that feels like a keith elwin game how you have these different tasks and strategies and so you know i knock this it's addictive it's an addictive game about the scoring and everything else but i think i i guess because it's so prominent in your face with it because if you really dive into jurassic park which i have not so i'm just talking on my ass right now but when you start getting into the dna and you start getting into collecting fossils and all this weird [ __ ] with air it becomes a very super overly complicated game as well for scoring yeah which i just don't focus on because it's still fun the bad thing about avengers is it's not super fun to run through those modes they don't i mean they're they like the lip shot and it's just different cult enough for me that like i'm telling the story yeah and i'm not feeling like i'm i want to get somewhere with this i know i want to get the visitor center i want to do something like that i do like how code um not the most approachable for uh for novice players but i do like how the end lanes on iron you cannot change no i just kind of playing the spinner but you know though it's not overly hard to spell iron man it's one of the easier ones i like that to qualify modes i like that i do like that subways uh really and that's toys and stuff but i i like it but i just need more more substance more character uh in the different modes because i don't i don't play like a lot of these uh competition players do or even how this game was really presented to us i don't that's not the type of player i am i want to go through the story i want to go through the modes i'm going to have moments that pay pay get paid off and i just don't feel like it has that fully if you play it enough you feel a little bit of a story to it you know of obviously like i'm defeating these people to get the gems and if i don't if it doesn't tell a story after gym no but that's what i'm saying there needs more i think that that's the one thing that's always kind of been but it's not it's not built for that it's too competitive it's two of the best pinball players in the world that are involved with this game so yeah it's just not i guess i've i've tried to separate my personal taste that's what i did on my grave from this that's why i met a b because for me personally it's a c ish code but this thing is so clean greg think about the other manufactured games and the little blips and the glitches and code and the oh there's this thing no it's so clean the code is very so so clean i agree and it's very well balanced for the most part so yeah so that's why that's more of an a objectively more in the a that's why it's won awards it's why it's being played so much in competition my feel is a c so i rounded out at a b one of the moments i will say is this extra coded mode that everybody's playing for uh for the ping class oh and that'll roll out battle royale um played that again i don't understand it fully yet yes but it's another it gives you another coded moment that you can play and i really like that i i've [ __ ] on that before but uh i think for this game it really makes some sense very good job with that very good yeah okay it's good it's just not the bad i just i i just don't think that it's my game you know what i equate it to maybe this makes no sense it's not a cargo mist so deal with it it's like a best picture uh a film a best picture where you're like i still like these ventura but i get why that this one best picture yeah but not my favorite movie of the year exactly but you understand why i respect it it's hailed as being so good yep cinematography sound editing mixing it's kind of like that i can agree with that poison innovation yeah urinate you like it i like it i'm not yeah well i i'll probably see where you're coming from uh the spinning disc spinning dish you got a subway you've got the thor uh the actual glove and there you got the magnet the tower the tower is impressive no matter what that is so simple but it's so awesome yeah i wish the spinning disc and maybe the wire forms everywhere it's loaded first turn maybe it needs more adjustments but the spinning disc i wish was a little mine's freeing up like you said mine's still fairly we're still i think we're used to that gnr yes i wish it was that smooth it's not bad but the tower shot is fun that's innovative it's simple but it's in and i've seen Keith Elwin lock one ball in there and then did another one accidentally yeah it really is but it's important even my wife was impressed with it she liked it i'm gonna be um what there's nothing that really stands out as a toy like the glove itself is the comic book glove so it's going to be more yellow it's not going to look like the film one guys yeah so i get that but it's not physically imposing it doesn't it doesn't just wow you when you go up and look at it it doesn't interact the tower is cool that's the one toy that i like in this game over anything is the tower i think it's good innovation there um the subway yeah take it or leave it i agree it's okay it's not as impactful as you'd like it yeah i'd like bowls to maybe stay down there more um the spinning disc could be a little better i like that they're spinning this i like the lifts up i'll uh circus voltaire yes but even when you hit it in the spinning disc like i don't know i think you're wrong on that one it's just there's nothing that just really screams toys or innovation here no but i think you're a little low the raising of the disc that's pretty innovative in the spinning disc itself that's pretty innovative when you hold the flipper up and it rolls in now yeah that's okay yeah it's all right so the toys i'm i don't know what else to say about the toys the tower shots one of the coolest keith is ends up like jurassic park that one toy that just wow right that tower is the one in this one and you even take ultimately and that's not as impressive but you just take with iron maiden just the ramp shot to the target it's cool like that was something yeah where you can hit differently that's a good point man because i guess that i never i mean you obviously pay attention to those things but i guess i've never thought of that he kind of leads a nice vain toy that's different from what other people do so you know what i'm hearing on this next game no i wish i'm hearing yeah i'm hearing really really good things dude's amazing i don't want to take anything away from him with i've heard this next one is uh the buyer the one that just keeps going up oh [ __ ] just keeps going up i heard there is a mech and a toy in this next one music and call outs oh oh jerry jerry j did you talk to jerry he's right here i don't want to talk to you why not using call outs oh greg you're the c plus yeah you want to know something yeah i'm even lower yeah oh we usually like call outs and music in stern games what happened call it suck music is good the call-out is not good colors are not good fana this is where i got back to thanos as the saving grace and a few different things thanos to me is the is it's cool call out his callouts are cool the opening that's the police comparison the other one yeah i mean it's not bad i like the thanos call out it grabs me but the other ones are you get into the spider-man x-men x-men it's just might even worse than x-men they're just so they're just so cliched yeah i'm not going to argue that great job just bad there's a draft no they are there's no personality so we gotta give them credit they are marvel approved animated voice actors they are that so i think stern stern didn't have much choice no no yeah that's where you get careful of like where the blade falls and who made what decision like i don't ever do and i think the music is solid the music is as i said it's not don't get the assets from the film yeah that's who's that uh silvestri is that if i got that right the composer for the i think it's sylvester let's see i gotta see this if i'm right because then i know my uh movies think i'm wrong though pretty impressive alan silvestri that's i mean so i think i'm qualified to rate this game i guess take it yeah i'm going to see you're going to see plus the music is solid but again it doesn't scream here's the avengers score that we all know doesn't do that for me the different i think the same sounds are in every damn gym the same music in every gym it just feels like it there's not much difference here well and then a lot of variety of music that's the thing it's like i i like and maybe i'm asking for too much like i like a separation i think that that's what sets it apart and keeps it going is when you have very unique call outs or that you have callouts with personality that that it you it grabs you and pulls you into the game even more and makes the whole experience more enjoyable where when everything sort of blends together even if it's different and it all sort of blends together yeah no matter how different it is it still has the same overtone the same overtone of the the voice actors the same over true vanilla yes then it all just flows and it was iron man iron man snarky yeah i don't know maybe i feel and this is one of those things that a comic book guy i'm saying this and i could be completely wrong just because of the the exact reason i just explained but i feel like that there is a lack of good call outs in some of these new sterns and just in general deadpool's got some colors no it does but it you that's one of those things that makes it okay strange thing yeah it's pretty good people don't like the stranger things call us sometimes call outs are so quirky and silly and bad that they're good i don't think that happens on avengers i think it happens on stranger things yeah we got hopper calling but that's what i'm saying when i can't remember a line from a pinball machine or i can't remember a call out like everybody's going to leave the weapon oh you're saying like the old Bally 90s yeah if they if you don't have anything like that that you should show time yeah yeah then then what then you're not you're not contributing to that pin you're not doing it justice oh 100 yeah do you see what i'm saying yes it's true this man has no dick that's why i think that it is so important to create phenomenal callings and ellen's games are just not known for well the one good call out all the ones that we've studied other than iron maiden but that's a different story but all the ones we've stated are ip assets they're from films we know and love where they're from no i mean it's hard to create your own call out to their memorable life i'm not no i'm good i mean i don't know maybe so maybe that's all it is maybe i'm displaying animation maybe maybe here's where we no no okay uh move to the next category displaying animations so the animations are i won't say the anime the artwork is good the characters look good they're very good it's just again it gets a little closer to the zombie yeti illustration very much so they're so than turtles yes they're phenomenal those are really good in that aspect it's the animating of them and the backgrounds the backgrounds it's it's it's making them compelling and me wanting to watch that screen i can care less about what goes on up there there's no facial expression that changes no that's what this whole thing it's it's very full image and to me correct shot it's another one of those things of of i don't know who has full creative control and where sure the full creativeness comes from whether it's gomez or whether elwin has the full thing but i almost feel like that it could be elwyn just because again i think it's another one was tournament driven i think so driven thing it just it's not important to him he's more about school so it's not important i met elwyn doesn't care as much no it just lets them run with what they want same for animation same for sound yeah everywhere it does not make a difference to him he'll be wrong because yeah very much so this this is just speculation that we know nothing about but it it's literally i think that thing because it's about scoring it's about the progression it's about a strategy the strategy is turning it's a tournament game so those things are not important in a tournament you're to be minus that's pretty low for you for animations from stern yeah the wait is over a revolution in led lighting for your pinball is finally here fully customizable full spectrum lighting from PinStadium Lights order yours now at kingstadium.com chrome it brass it black nicolette candy chrome it powder coated the possibilities are endless at pinballplating.com [Music] your pinball machine deserves the best at comet pinball you'll find the best variety of led products with the best quality leds and most importantly at the best price your collection is begging for an upgrade order yours now at cometpinball.com check out pin graphics for the latest and greatest in pinball enhancements power blades blade skins pin blades and even more visit pin graphics.com now to see what's available for your pinball machine plus trying to think of anything on there i like it's really good what i respect about stern in 2021 and moving forward they have the cleanest systems easily they just do they have the cleanest uh they don't muddle and fuddle with stuff no they know what works they know it's going to be solid uh they know it's going to be consistent yeah and they are consistent across the board i do appreciate that but nothing sticks out to me animation or display wise i don't get a lot of different background renderings from different uh characters to the next you get the same ball lock thing with the uh the plane it doesn't it doesn't do anything theme you're nay yeah your comic book guy this is avengers yeah fincher's still awesome it's not the movie no but it's still a avengers would you rather have the movie yes really yeah you're a comic book i just think because of the personalities sure the moments the moments there's moments there i'm at a theme b-plus it's it's it's not an a theme for me no that's a personality that's just a preference yeah i just and i think avengers is solid in the marvel universe so it's not going to be a c yeah so it's a b plus for me because it's beautiful and it is an iconic comic book uh theme and license but it's not the film and i like the film that's all going back to call outs if it was the let's say if it was the film yes what was it what would the theme be if it was that that universe of those films avengers what do you mean what do you think the theme would be well what would you rate the theme then let's still keep it in a i'd be at an a solid a if not a plus yeah i mean dynamite dynamite property i mean it's it's still avengers superheroes i still enjoy it okay real quick back to the uh the call-outs do you really think do you think that jerry's already turned it off do you think it's a a lack of effort and i want to have a personal talk with jerry because i'm actually curious about this if he'll if he's he's probably not allowed to talk to me about any of it i'll talk to you but i want to talk to him about it like i want to know whether the pool of affordable voice actors is that slim that it's hard to find those rich personalities i think no i think that or whether it's literally just that there's not the effort there's not the need there's not the feeling that it's important to reach out and go through scrub 100 voice actors for the one right voice actor whether that's too much work too much not cost effective anything else so they describe somebody who sounds good works and they put them in there because i mean it is what you said you take robert down like these people are creating these characters as iron man i don't want them to replicate no i'm not saying that try to do that with guardians what i'm saying though is is they lend their own unique flair yes to these characters through their voice and through their acting and they're all starkly different voices they all sound different they are all star clean i think that they are given they say we want to do an avengers based pinball machine here's the characters we would like to put into it and they say we've got you uh glaive or whatever the hell that guy's name is we've got you uh thor we've got you these here here are our people and then give us a script of what you want to be said they submit that script and then it comes back well this doesn't really fit in our universe um they wouldn't do that this is a superhero oh no i understand they keep it clean i think that um they're not pulling from a large pool of talent i don't think they're allowed to but i don't think they're allowed to that's a that'd be my guess they're not allowed to oh you see what i'm see what you say but i don't that's what i'm saying there there's limitations i don't think stern says this is exactly what we want to do if there's anything that we've obviously learned in this hobby is you don't know who makes decisions where and what the limitations are we allow that there are limitations um in every aspect of pinball so we don't ever try to blame you know in my rebuttal if i was throwing pinball was would be this it would be hey you want uh you want those call outs as wacky call outs hey do you want that all of that stuff get an unlicensed pen from another manufacturer because when you get avengers this is what we've got or this is what we want to put money into we don't that's what i'm saying the return on better calling exactly is going to get exactly right and that's that's what i'm saying is that where it is if i think that's true too if we want to spend more money we'll spend five times the amount and go for the film seriously yeah but i can just do that you think that's gonna sell phenomenally it's Keith Elwin it's zombie yeti call outs are so underrated sound is not a big one for me i know it is more so for you for a lot of players out there like everybody in australia ryan c that's like one of the biggest things for him is sound me too i'm not a huge sound sound guy i'm more of a visual person so wow give me more animations even if i'm not looking at them more than anything i want it to be pretty i think i wanted to shine i don't i want to be immersed and i'm watching the play field i can't see the screen i want i can hear it see i can ditch the animations and need good sound because i'm watching that play field and i'm playing but the sound sound feels tangible or resonating while i'm playing feel it can't touch it interesting enjoyability oh um next one mixed on this one me too i rated it decent though you're you're at uh a minus on enjoyability yeah i could have went lower like you went higher oh where are you i'm going to be okay see it's just a solid fun we could have met in the middle at a b plus yeah that's probably right and probably been for enjoyability just because it's brutal for me i like that i like the the shots when i step up to this game it feels good that's why i'm shooting it and it's pretty those are where my enjoyability lie it's not on code it's not on animations it's not on rules per se but yeah i think it's solid it's fun it's addictive more so than a lot of other stern games so this is a game that i would own and maybe it wouldn't get me deep in the fields as much but i might play it more than something like uh for example quick example tells arabian nights that gets me in the fields yeah right it doesn't shoot as good as avengers but it has more more moments and it pulls me into the storyline a lot more but i would play avengers more because it offers me a more more challenge more depth uh more reason to shoot and to play it does that make sense no it does completely because i honestly feel the same way like it's i wouldn't be playing it for a month and a half yeah straight multiple games absolutely like but it it's one of those things i can't that's where i equate it to monsters there's like there there's something like that that i'm pissed i don't want to play it i don't like it and then you've been kind of like it on turtles lately yeah yeah turtles hit me a little bit like that but then turtles evened out and turtles is like okay it hasn't left yet um i keep that's a weird thing about this game is avengers has the the replay ability to me because i i i keep wanting to go back but i don't know why because i don't necessarily have fun on it all the time very very few times do i've seen this guy just mad playing yeah like deadpool i always leave happy this i'm leaving 90 of the time not didn't have a real good time but i keep wanting to play it for whatever reason i can i can't i can't explain why but the one difference is is i think that when it comes time to leave i don't think i would ever buy it again hmm see for me like deadpool's a good comparison because i think when i'm playing and into deadpool i'm into it more and enjoy it more yes but give me avengers over deadpool in my collection because deadpool iron maiden's kind of doing the same thing right now hmm doesn't i don't know see deadpool i just always have fun on and between the call outs the modes like you said it's not super deep and i understand why you don't like it it feels repetitive you got a long ball time and maybe that's why i i have the keep coming back to avengers is because it's not the longest ball times really it can vary see let's see you either have a good game or you have a bad same thing with led zeppelin like led zeppelin i'm jamming i'm smiling i'm stacking i'm starting all these things it's more fun when i'm playing it than avengers probably ever will be but push comes to shove i think i may own avengers in my collection more so than led zeppelin and that's weird because right now i own a led zeppelin i don't want avengers but it feels like that i guess anything does it with dude this is crazy uh and then we'll close it out jurassic park is the same damn way like it'll never leave my collection now i i'm starting to like jurassic park more than you i think but there's something about that game that it'll never leave my collection but it never really i'm usually pissed off more than i am really playing see i can play dresses see i think it comes down to shooting style too because i can play jurassic park there's certain games i can play that's what i think i dislike about avengers because i i have to be wrong in some aspect and that's what gets me and nags me in the back of my brain is because it's such a popular game so many people love it is it because it's an ellen game or is it because it's that good i go because it's that good because i would figure something what i'm going to start to drop what am i missing because i i i had a quick honeymoon honeymoon phase with it and liked it and that's when i told you about the code and this is neat but then once i figured it out a little more it's like i'm kind of like i used to be like that but viewer i have thrown that in trash can i burn the son of a [ __ ] because there are games that have come out that even some of you out there have given me and greg a hard time on enjoying and i used to say well what am i over valuing why do i like this more than everybody else maybe is there anything star wars ghostbusters yes turtle like so i've thrown it out because i know what i like and i know what i don't like yeah houdini people don't like that either but people are but but the thing is is a lot of those people end up coming back around to what we end up like absolutely they do houdini's i was wrong yeah i said it wasn't good it was a phenomenal probably one of stern's best in the last decade or existence i love it it really really is good it's not my type of game but i think it's really good and avengers feels the same way we need to do a video greg on different types of players yes i think that'll be fun here here's a quick again we're trying to close this out but i so i told you you're not so passionate about that i i took pictures of avengers yeah it was going to be listed i knew and that was like three weeks ago it was like two weeks ago and then i had a good game and i was like oh that was kind of fun yeah and then i had another decent game until thanos came in and started stealing my [ __ ] gym you called me that day you were so angry you're like i'm just so [ __ ] done i'm fed up with this game here i am i actually got all these stones and the son of a [ __ ] took him away like well there's not a bigger kick in the nuts i'm done i'm not doing this it was the most disheartening thing in the world yeah but it's still here and i actually moved it to the back room into my comic room and put leave the weapon back out here so that i could have it in deadpool next to each other yeah so i guess that means because i went through that work that it's staying for a while longer this justification but it's like i guess some of it i think i'm i'm so hard on it i'm not i'm not wrong in like call that's a different stuff i'm not backtracking somebody graded i'm just talking about more of enjoyability i guess and longevity of it more than anything else no one does that he can keep you hooked i know it's like i think that it's just because it's not my game it's not my shooter the lack of the cost and stuff whereas those things could maybe make up for some of the the difficulty of the game or me just not it not clicking with me i think that that's why i'm like always back and forth i'll have a good game and i'm like okay this is this is pretty good this isn't bad and then it's just like what game you missing what like did i miss the most you know what game you miss oh man i got one in my mind i miss guardians i don't miss it i know you don't we've talked about this i miss guardians i'd like to have another card and i missed iron maiden that's why i got that one back too i do miss iron man stay tuned for another an episode let's go through on a video greg what's in our collections currently give a current update what we like what we'd like to get what may be on its way out yes the style that we like when we're looking for games i'd do that or at least even just do a whole separate one of games that we missed what's our top five games that we missed that we missed that we got rid of maybe too soon cumulatively speaking you ended up being at the b plus shocker three point that's the show 3.5 so it puts you right above batman 66 the same as alice cooper and below it shoots better than family 66 but i like batman 66 i know for the record but you've never owned batman 66 oh but i like it cumulatively speaking i'm at a 3.265 a solid b it's fair i think it's fair that's where it should be based on my review and my uh my way to interpret these things uh it's above metallica for me which i agree and it's below alien for me i agree not even close on shooting but i agree as a package give me what alien has to offer just a hair more maybe i need more time i don't know what do they need to know between now and the next time we see this follow us on facebook follow follow folks subscribe us on youtube where you're watching this fantastic video we need to talk about some arcades you guys did you see me unboxing some cool arcade stuff jurassic park big buck hunter golden t is coming oh i like gold i might need to get a golden little ski ball a little basketball yeah i haven't always had room for a ski ball and have it all flipping if you guys are ready for your own avengers pinball infinity quest machine it's worth trying it's worth owning well that's the thing i don't have to worry about because it is out selling everything and it will continue to outsell everything because it is a great game i literally bought it on a whim you were going to buy stranger things i was going to buy another stranger thing i said well you should give avengers and i said okay bring an adventure give it a shot i was like yeah well you're not it's not going to hurt you when you know because i want to retaining their value like no other because i just wanted to try it you you made a good point i was like man i own stranger things i love it i do want another stranger things but i do want to give avengers a chance yeah quick rundown since we're doing the premium belly quick rundown of the accessories topper do you like it or not it's that's it's all looking adds a little mode for you in there um because the side armor has die cut i do like a die cut rather than a printed side armor or the uh the side armor yeah uh interior art blades really beautiful it's a zombie yeti species uh the shooter knob we have not seen yet no it is like that jurassic park one right over there or is it gonna light up yeah it's gonna be a clear one with a i think uh infinity stone in it oh that's kind of that's kind of cool so that's really neat um what else what are we missing on accessories a lot of cool accessories Mezel Mods been doing a lot of things uh with the mod couple we gotta go check out the mod for some of that stuff so a lot of cool accessories up there there's even a guy doing a um i bought him i don't even own the game and i bought the he does the building uh for the ant-man building do you see that yes and he did a manhattan skyscraper i bought both of them that is the hard thing like that's why i wanted to make this a little city i liked it enough that i wanted to get the tower like i wanted to make the tower because i'm like it doesn't stand out enough that's the one thing they screwed up on because that tower is hidden sort of like you don't look at it as a tower it's a cool shot but you're like so i oh with this guy he will call me within two days hey you know anybody wants to buy this avengers yeah you know anybody it might or as soon as the next turn comes out you might see you later and then anytime i get uh within the next six months to a year i'll get it in on trade at flipping out pinball hey blood how much you want for that i asked him about every used game he gave oh we went for that so watch chuck work streaming uh carrie hardy's videos and i guess that's about it huh buy a pinball machine put my kids through college i wouldn't just that was just a trade school got a couple of them nothing better drink coffee planning you had to wear oh man see you guys later hats off to you hats off to keith i want the rest of the crew good job guys what do they got next you hit it off with a bumper knife straightening down the bed [Music] you had a fling with a slingshot [Music] hey what's going on yo rusty trump [Music]