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The Pinball Show Ep 59: The Mandalorian LE - $20k By Christmas

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 27m·analyzed·May 10, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Stern announces The Mandalorian pinball; specs, designer, and pricing largely unconfirmed but heavily speculated.

Summary

The Pinball Show discusses Stern's official announcement of The Mandalorian as their new cornerstone title, with a full reveal expected May 11th. Hosts speculate on design details (rumored Brian Eddy design, Lonnie Ropp coding), pricing (no increase expected), production (750 LE units rumored), and art direction (Randy Martinez rumored). The episode also covers American Pinball production updates, Jersey Jack supply chain delays on Guns N' Roses, and broader industry trends around distribution and demand.

Key Claims

  • Stern will do a full Mandalorian reveal on Tuesday, May 11th on their social media platforms

    high confidence · Craig Bobby news update citing rumor, aligns with May 4th teaser timing

  • 750 units of Mandalorian LE production is rumored

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby states 'a dealer announced' this number; not official confirmation from Stern

  • No pricing increase for Mandalorian compared to recent cornerstone titles

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby cites dealer reports; explicitly notes this is not officially confirmed by Stern

  • Brian Eddy is rumored to be the designer, with Lonnie Ropp likely on code

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby and hosts note this is 'highly probable based on rumor' given both designers haven't released games in ~2 years

  • Randy Martinez is rumored to lead the art package

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby cites social media and notes Martinez did 2019 Star Wars comic edition art; hosts agree Martinez has done recent Mandalorian artwork

  • Jersey Jack Guns N' Roses has severe supply chain delays with December orders still unfilled in May

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg cites specific buyer reports: December order delayed from April to July, newer buyers quoted October delivery

  • American Pinball is adding a second production line to meet demand

    high confidence · Kaz's update citing direct communication with Michael Grant

  • Stern teased Mandalorian on May 4th with 'May the Fourth be with you' message

    high confidence · Craig Bobby and hosts confirm this happened; hosts note it was predictable timing

Notable Quotes

  • “This title is posed to break all previous sales records for a pinball machine in the modern era.”

    Craig Bobby @ News update section — Forecasts unprecedented demand for Mandalorian based on pre-announcement hype and LE sellouts

  • “I think people are just fantasizing what they want in this game because nobody's seen anything yet.”

    Zach Minney @ Mandalorian discussion section — Acknowledges heavy speculation in absence of confirmed design details

  • “I would like to see that shadow sanctum ball lock kind of thing come back.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Mandalorian design speculation — References Shadow and its mechanics as design aspirations for comparison to rumored Brian Eddy style

  • “I want to see Dwight Sullivan work with Brian Eddy.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Designer/coder pairing discussion — Expresses preference for mixing design teams rather than static pairings

  • “Lyman Sheets is the most popular programmer slash rule designer in the game.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Discussion of competitive player preferences — Identifies Lyman as top-tier rule designer among competitive community

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyThe MandaloriangameBrian EddypersonLonnie RopppersonRandy MartinezpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyGuns N' Roses PinballgameAmerican Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball adding second production line to meet demand across three active titles

    high · Kaz update citing direct communication with Michael Grant; notes all titles selling well with improved specs on new Houdinis

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Lyman Sheets identified as most popular rule designer among competitive players, followed by Kiefer and Keith Elwin

    medium · Dennis notes competitive players rank Lyman first in 'holy trinity' of rule designers; hosts agree Lyman rules are most frequently seen in top play

  • ?

    leak_detection: Mandalorian details (750 LE units, no price increase, designer/coder identities) leaked via dealer networks before official reveal

    medium · Craig Bobby cites 'a dealer announced' production numbers and another dealer confirmed pricing; explicitly notes these are not from Stern

  • $

    market_signal: Supply chain crisis at Jersey Jack with 5+ month delivery delays for Guns N' Roses despite 8+ month launch window

    high · Ken Rudberg cites specific buyer reports: December order slipped April→July, newer buyers quoted October delivery

  • $

    market_signal: Stern uses May 4th Star Wars reference for Mandalorian teaser timing; hosts critique as predictable but effective

    high · Hosts note May 4th teaser was expected; Dennis calls it 'a little overdone' and 'predictable' but acknowledges it integrates well with IP

  • $

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.264

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:13
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week on the Pinball Show, Dennis is back while I scramble to clean up the place. We also discuss podcast experimentation, Storm Pinball's upcoming Mandalorian reveal, changing pinball distribution practices, mermaid cave holes, American pinball production updates, random movie references from Dennis, pinball market trends, upcoming market tips, a piece of pinball history up for sale, Chilling 101, announcing a new TPN podcast, and more. Come get some.
0:58
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
1:19
The wackiest and most lovable show on the internet is the Pinball Show, episode 59. with me, Zach Minney, and my best bud, Dennis Creasel. Um, yeah, Dennis, uh, how, how are you? I'm okay. Things good? Yeah. I, I listened to the last EGP episode. That was, that was really good. I loved it. It was nice to, Haggis gave us something substantive to talk about finally in pinball. So we had some fuel for the fire. Had a lot of arcade, uh, fodder too. Yeah. A little bit on the video game side. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We, you know, just same old stuff here at the Pinball Show. Really? Same old stuff, huh? It was, yeah. Had on a co-host last week. Oh, you did? Yeah. New to pinball podcasting. So that, I can't say it went well. It was there. So did you listen? I don't know if you picked that one up. Play that one yet? Yes, I did. Okay. Oh, wow. I was worried a bit. Were you? On a scale of 1 to 10, what was your fear? I would rate it, oh, fuck, Dennis is going to kill me. If that's like a 9.
Zach Minneyperson
Dennis Creaselperson
Craig Bobbyperson
Ken Rudbergperson
The Pinball Networkorganization
Lyman Sheetsperson
Zombie Yetiperson
Keith Elwinperson
Ray Dayperson

market_signal: Jersey Jack Guns N' Roses collector editions at $20k+ creating unsustainable demand vs supply imbalance

high · Ken Rudberg reports 'collector's editions on sale for $20,000 plus' with demand 'sky high' creating strain on supply side

  • ?

    announcement: Stern officially announces The Mandalorian as new cornerstone title with May 11th full reveal

    high · May 4th teaser posted; Craig Bobby confirms May 11th reveal timing aligns with rumor

  • ?

    product_strategy: No confirmed price increase for Mandalorian despite industry-wide parts inflation and JJP price hikes

    medium · Craig Bobby notes dealer reports confirm no pricing change but explicitly states this is not officially confirmed by Stern; hosts express surprise given recent trends

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Brian Eddy designer and Lonnie Ropp coder heavily rumored for Mandalorian but unconfirmed

    medium · Craig Bobby explicitly states 'highly probable based on rumor' due to 2-year absence from both designers; community speculation about game design style (Shadow vs Attack from Mars)

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Hosts express frustration with lack of Stern new titles over 5-month hiatus before Mandalorian announcement

    medium · Craig Bobby notes hiatus 'sent the entire red-hot pinball world into a galaxy far, far away, sparking a buying frenzy' suggesting pent-up demand

    • 2:36
    Well, in your day, okay, so pretty high, pretty fearful. Yes. Well, now, I will say, I knew we had discussed, you had an interest in doing like a debate-style show. Yes. I misunderstood you, however. I thought you meant like as a standalone separate podcast series, not on the precious pinball show.
    3:00
    So when I downloaded it and I started to play it, I was like, oh, no. Oh, he meant like on the off weeks. This is when he was going to do it.
    3:12
    Yeah, I actually I think so far this year. this is the most of a pinball show that I have had people email or message me about and I wasn't even on the show it's the highest volume of messages I have received this year for a TPS episode polarizing experiment that was yes can't say that I'm proud of it man for a lot of people it was about as awkward as this conversation I'm trying to have with you right now It was probably more awkward than that. It really was. A lot of people couldn't get through it, and I don't doubt it. I struggled. I did have to take a break about maybe 30 minutes. Of course, I do play it at a higher speed. Oh, are you still?
    4:05
    It's all programmed in. Is it fighting? No, my podcatcher, when I put it in a higher speed, it maintains the actual proper pitch. So it just sounds like you're talking faster. It doesn't change the tone. The micromachine guy. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah. You still sound human, not Alvin. You're a shill. Everything is blanketed and flipping out pinball. You're ridiculous. I'll spoofing you. That kind of thing. Did you just... Zach, I think the moral that I and all of us really learned is that you need to just go back and listen to your old words. That's where the facts lie. I felt like national treasure. Where? Yeah. Where's the Constitution? It's on the back of the mat. But where? It was fun. Fun times. Okay. Well, my advice would be to never do it again. I got that advice from a lot of people, actually. When it started, I thought that there would actually be more. I mean, you had a back and forth. It didn't feel like one person did all the talking or anything, but I thought it would be a little more logic-driven, and it just wasn't. Aren't you proud of me, Dennis? The logic thing wasn't. I didn't fall on the logic thing. No, you'd come in with your research. Yeah. I thought, I'm going to make my din-din proud. I'm glad that he was willing to take the chance there, so my appreciation to Delt 31 from Pennside for doing that. It didn't go in the direction I thought I was aiming for it, but those kind of things, when they're like that, you don't know where they're going to go. So it went where it went. It was very natural. It was very real, and at the end of the day, not the proudest podcasting work I've done, but it was ultimately transparent and real and in entertainment alone we don't always get that so I was happy that I did it but I am with many of you listeners out there I have no intention on ever doing that again what it really brought home for me Dennis is plenty of people have their differences there's a way to go about differences I love that we don't have to always shield ourselves from a computer keyboard or even in our case a stage by ourselves with a microphone to come together and discuss these differences but we also know that it doesn't always work like that and preconceived ideas are baked in and sometimes they can't be changed but you can do one of two things in pinball you can enjoy it as the as the hobby it should be and be proud of pinball that's what i took away especially from that episode because there's just sometimes there's no pleasing people. So it made me more positive about pinball and more proud to be a part of it, even when it does feel like I'm liking everything new and shiny. I'm proud of that now. Well, I guess we're all glad that you feel very proud. But I can still argue with you. I think there's a difference between arguing friends and arguing strangers.
    6:54
    I'm sure there is a difference, but there's a difference between a debate where you're trying to convince someone based off of some elements that were truthful and then there's just sort of standing by your statements and not really considering the other perspective and i think that was the vibe i got was just like you and and dealt came at it from two very different positions and it wasn't what i expected so we got a lot of listens and i did it i didn't check the numbers and delt taught me that all of our numbers are trash in general so i was happy to see a nice little yeah that was an interesting element talking about the i mean he didn't ask for my opinion but i was very very pleased with how the pinball industry awards viewer count was that one threw me because i'm like oh really like it was bad i i mean i don't know i i went off the ultimate total views i didn't really think much about one way or the other in terms of expectations of who could have made and watched it live i was just surprised how many people end up watching it but what do i know you know a lot actually i like at the end of the day we had a lot of tpm people had difficulty listening to it and i like that they voiced their opinions as well i was like wait this isn't ringmaster zach like he doesn't do all the work here damn it we do the work we do this this this and this and nicely done i think a lot of them that aren't as part of the administrative committee don't have to watch for and manage that sort of, I don't know how I describe it, maybe fallout would be a decent enough word, but there's sort of this false narrative that gets spread, and it sort of existed from the get-go.
    8:33
    But some of it's just sort of the hey, well, since you talk a lot about, you share a lot of the links and stuff, so a lot of people sort of see you as the ringleader, when instead you're just one piece of this that's doing happens to do some of the most public facing work but like you don't manage the i mean you have access to but you're not the main manager of our social media for example correct yeah so it's just people have this this narrative in their mind that's oh yeah it's zach everything about the you know one of the things that kept coming up in the discussion that i just thought was anyone who listened to any of the other podcasts on the network or watched any of the live streams would know was that flipping out doesn't come out up on most of the stuff no and where it does other than this show it's like well the flipping out stream which is the flipping out stream so of course it's about flipping out and then like just another pinball you have a separate flipping out has a separate standalone sponsorship arrangement with yes so it doesn't have anything to do with tpn you do the same thing with non-tpn things like loser kid Like you said, I do more advertisement outside of TPN than I ever would in.
    9:43
    But, yeah, and that was one of the things that I think took some of the TPN people back. They're like, we're never given direction that we have to mention Flippin' Out or Zach or anything. No, that's not. The entire function of the network is to be a self-supporting thing where ideas are shared and people promote each other and all of that and encourage each other to produce creative content. That's the motivator for it. They keep their own money. They decide what they're – they want to sell shirts. They make their own shirts, make their own deals. We don't get a cut of it. Absolutely. We being the network. Pretty easy agreements and understood by everybody. It's why whenever we first start coming out with these podcasts and I would share them on social media, that was one of the prompts that we had to pull in David Dennis. He's been so kind enough to lead the social media efforts because I was sharing these podcasts everywhere. and people thought I was just personally flooding different forums and stuff. And I stopped and said, guys, I can't do this anymore because people are going to. They're just going to kill us on this because somebody's got to share these things. And we encouraged the individual podcast to share their own so that it wouldn't look like we were just dumping stuff on people. Yeah, we don't want to be dump trucks. No. No, we want to be Maseratis. If you were a car, which one would you be? Lighten us up a little bit. A dump truck. Ford Probe?
    11:07
    I don't understand the question. You'd be a Prius. That's the answer for you. You'd be a Prius. I think I'd be a Tesla.
    11:18
    In a new, dynamic, long-winded, arranged. I'm trying to think of something that's like really shiny and flashy, but all show and no substance, like a Del Sol maybe. Oh, I was going Tesla. I thought Tesla was good. And then every once in a while the battery overheats and starts on fire. Let's get into some pinball news. Before we do that, I want to say a belated Happy Mother's Day to all of you mothers out there, as well as some of you mothers out there. Happy Mother's Day. Yeah. Yay. Poor Dr. John. He had to wait for his interview last week, an hour and a half. He was a little salty about it. I'm not going to lie. It's time for TPN Industry News. Hi and welcome to this week's SHIT update with Dr John on the Pinball Show. While last week was all about Haggar's Pinball with their Fathom announcement, this week Spooky's jumped up into the social medias with a couple of YouTube releases. If you jump on board the SpookyTube page, you'll find an update from Charlie and Bug about the latest and greatest events at Spooky Pinball and their new factory. and even some little hints about their upcoming game. But more entertainingly, Bowen Kerens does a couple of updates on Rick and Morty gameplay and how to get the most points available on the game. One is your G-rated gameplay, but I recommend the adults-only gameplay on Rick and Morty where he covers a ton of dimensions and a stack of adventures. Sadly, Moonman wasn't in there when he did this, but still great to watch. a great player playing what can be a pretty difficult game. So not much more from the SHIT camp apart from you have about two weeks left if you want a Mermaid Edition Fathom before the windows close for purchasing. Catch you all next week.
    13:15
    Hey, this is Kaz with a quick American Pinball update. I reached out to Michael Grant and he informed me that Houdini, Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels all the three current titles are still available and have been selling really well. American Pinball is going to be adding a second line soon to keep up with the demand as well as the future titles. Also, all new Houdinis include the updates such as the improved sound system, upgraded power supply, EOS switches, and flipper coil kits, as well as an available topper. They're still hard at work on game number four that will be revealed soon, so I hope everybody has a great week and has fun playing pinball. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Kosner.
    13:55
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack Update. With Guns N' Roses winning multiple Game of the Year awards, it's no wonder that its popularity is at a peak. With collector's editions on sale for $20,000 plus, the demand for the game is sky high, and this appears to have put a strain on the supply side of the supply and demand curve. Many game buyers have complained of increasingly painful wait times for their game. The game was launched back in October, and games ordered at that time are still being built. A recent buyer posted that his order from December for a limited edition Guns N' Roses was initially scheduled for April and has since been delayed to July. Another, more recent buyer was told that it would take until October to deliver his game. It is now clear that at launch, the demand far outstrips supply, and this has pushed delivery dates further and further out. How this will affect the new title is unknown, but it's clear that any new buyers will have to pack their patience and be prepared for a month's long wait. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg.
    15:08
    Hello and welcome to the Pinball Show's Stern News Update. I'm Craig Bobby. Well, just in case you've been hiding out in a deep-roofed pin-side thread for the last two years, Stern officially launched their galactic-sized teaser for their brand new pin themed in the Disney Plus Star Wars series, The Mandalorian. Yes, what seems to be the second worst-kept secret in pinball beyond Jersey Jack's next rumored title of Toy Story, this Stern teaser promises that the world's most popular bounty hunter and his baby Yoda sidekick Grogu would be coming soon from Stern Pinball. How soon, you say? Well, hold on to your vintage series Star Wars action figures and baby Yoda Funko Pops because rumor has it that later this week on Tuesday, May the 11th, Stern will be launching their full reveal of the Mandalorian on their various social media platforms. Of course, all this news comes after a five-month new title hiatus from Stern, which has sent the entire red-hot pinball world into a galaxy far, far away, sparking a buying frenzy the likes of which we haven't seen since, hmm, maybe the last Star Wars pinball machine from Stern? Now, what do we officially know about this title? Well, not much, actually, confirmed by Stern other than the theme. But wait a minute, we do know, based on his various social media messages, that it is highly probable that the previous 2019 Stern Star Wars comic edition artist, Randy Martinez, will be leading the art package. Other than that, it's rumored that Brian Eddy and Lonnie Ropp will get the nod for game design and game code, respectively, but that is definitely not confirmed at this point, though highly probable based on rumor and because it's been two years since we've heard from either, so again... Mmm, we shall wait and see.
    17:13
    Thinking you're on the fence about if you might want to buy a Mandalorian LE, Premium or Pro? Well, let's make that decision a little easier for you with LEs selling out weeks ago simply on speculation of the upcoming Mandalorian release. This title is posed to break all previous sales records for a pinball machine in the modern era. See you on May the 11th, everyone. And may the L.E.s be with you. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    17:48
    Dennis, we do not have a lot of news. Thanks for the correspondence for delivering what we do have. We have some meat on the bone, if you will. I expected more meat, given the surprise teaser trailer from Stern. I'm not going to lie. After this last week, I've kind of stayed away from social media as much as I could. I didn't get a lot of the notes. But Stern Pinball is in the news because they announced, this is a big one, they announced The Mandalorian as their new cornerstone title.
    18:21
    What did you think about the announcement? A very simple teaser just saying, hey, may the fourth be with you. Here it is. It is Baby Yoda and the Mandalorian. Yeah, I mean, I was a little disappointed they did something on May the 4th because I just think it's a little overdone. A little hacky? But, well, let's just say it's predictable. But that being said, some people probably were really pleased they integrated so well with something that's tied to Star Wars. I really was disappointed to hear that it was a cornerstone just because I thought it would have been really funny if Star Wars the home pin was not the new art package for the Mandalorian and that's really what I was cheering for you guys are going to buy these home pin editions let's make it, we're going to put the screen as Mando and we're going to change the artwork and we'll see if we can break you I want Stern to break this hobby I think the enthusiast would have given up if that were to happen. No, no. Pinball people don't give up. They never surrender. No, that would have set them back. They did the puzzle thing that made people mad. Like Rapthar's hammer. It would have been fine. Well, I don't know that reference. I know you don't. Shit. I know you don't. It's not superhero based? Nope. Damn it. Probably some stupid Dune reference. Anyway, I'm not telling you what it is. I know. So anyway. So it was a cornerstone. People are hyped. People are excited. People are calling their local and not-so-local distributors, asking to get on the list. Yeah, we'll get into that. What we do know, based on, I'm going to say based on some other, I think another dealer announced that there's going to be 750 units of the LE. So somebody else announced. Let the record show it was not me announcing or saying any of that. And another dealer I saw on the forum say that there is no change in pricing. I'm surprised at that. I am as well. Very surprised, actually. A lot of people speculated that because of the current market and parts delay issues, we were going to see, and JJP just went up significantly, we were going to see some type of pricing increase. But we are hearing, again, nothing officially launched yet, but we are hearing no changing in pricing by Stern. That's an important distinction. There's an asterisk in your words that I can hear the pointy parts of it. There is an asterisk. How many asterisks? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Eight points?
    20:49
    I think as it displays on the screen, but I've seen keyboards, for example, that only show six. Oh. Yes, I have been bored enough to count before. I just counted there. It is rumored that this is the next Brian Eddy design from Stern Pinball. It would fit, given how long it's been since he's had another game. and I never heard that Stranger Things was just going to be a one-off for Brian, but that he was actually at Stern. Correct. I've been hearing people speculate that this is going to be much more Shadow-like rather than Attack from Mars-like, but I don't know if that's just desperation for those that have always felt Shadow was his best game. Yeah, it is. Maybe it'll be like neither of them, folks. Did you think about that? Yeah, because Stranger Things is just so much like Attack from Mars, let me tell you.
    21:34
    Shot entryways are all kind of the same. Where the balls come out from those shots is different, though. Feels different. But, yeah, entry points, yeah, it does look like a fan layout. Drop down center bank. I mean.
    21:47
    That's where it is right there, that drop down center bank. Yeah. Rumored Brian Eddy. I hope it shadowish because that is my favorite See you one of them That my favorite You just wanted them to put in two more side buttons so we can have manually controlled diverters What would we divert? We'd divert the pinball into the arms of Baby Yoda.
    22:10
    Do you think he's going to make an appearance in this game? Absolutely. Physically? Or two-dimensionally? Yes. Yeah, I think there'll be a sculpt. Wow. And maybe on the Pro it'll be a flat plastic. Oh, the Deadpool treatment.
    22:26
    Well, sometimes you get dead and sometimes you get pool. It just depends. Okay, so you're saying Premium LE may have... That'd be cool. Yeah, I won't say that necessarily a sculpt would get in all three models. But yeah, I think there'll be a sculpt. Is Stern bringing back a magnet for this game? Oh, gosh. Well, what was the last... I love magnets. Has there not been magnets lately? had a magnet. Well, then I guess it's not bringing back because that was their latest game. Yeah, that's a really good point. Unless you just mean bringing back from Led Zeppelin. Yeah, sure. Avengers had a magnet. Hell, everything. No, magnet was typical sense of moving the ball. For stuff, it would make sense that you would have a magnet to freeze the ball or grab it to make it look like Baby Yoda's grabbing the ball. I'm not calling him Grogu, so we'll just deal with it. The Child. I'm not calling him that either. You don't like The Child? It's fine, but I'm calling him Baby Yoda. I just decided. People know what I mean. Choco milk. Chicky nuggies. Chicky nuggies and choco milk. That would be a good Easter egg in the video mode. Ray Day will get on that. Choco milk and chicky nuggies. I'm talking about a magnet that's utilized more than just a stopping mechanism.
    23:38
    What, are you thinking like a missed multiball or what? Yeah, I'm thinking pulsating magnets a la Adam's Family or Dialed In. No, no, I don't think we'll do that. No, no. Not like where it's going to screw with like Guardians or whatever, where the ball control. I think you get too many ball control. Or you know what? I'm talking even Iron Monger Whiplash, where sure, it'll lock, but then it'll give you a and throw.
    24:05
    I could see it, but I just don't. That's what I want. I don't think. My prediction is no, that they won't do it. There's a lot of rumors going around, and they are just purely rumors. I think people are just fantasizing what they want in this game because nobody's seen anything yet. But things like an upper play field possibly, a la your shadow kind of thing. Some people have been mentioning a rotating upper play field with drop targets. Again, hard for me to get behind that and to say that is a consistent rumor because I've only heard it from a source or two. And who knows? I don't know. Or the ship having a target that you hit and a ramp comes down kind of thing. we'll see tomorrow I'm going to guess no upper or lower playfield maybe a turtle van ball lock maybe you do a razorback ball lock or razor crest or whatever the name of the ship was I can see it also being a thing on the playfield that's the ball lock but if we only have two flippers it no longer is a shadow well you could still have a third flipper on the main playfield I mean, Elwynn does it all the time. If it does only have two flippers, it kind of does away with that. So it would almost require three flippers to be. I think people would consider it shadow-esque as long as it's got manually controlled diverters. I think that would be close enough. I'd like to see that shadow sanctum ball lock kind of thing come back. I would like that. But then you're going to have tore up sanctums. No, we use so much clear now. You just have chipping paint. So don't you worry. love those big old metal cores Randy Martinez who did the Star Wars comic pro and premium editions last year is rumored to be on the art package yeah I don't think that rumor is much of a rumor I think given that he's confirmed he's been working on a pinball I've been following him a little bit he does some great work really good work especially on the Mandalorian he's done some Mandalorian stuff here recently for a Star Wars celebration show and it's phenomenal. If we could get that in, I would be 100% behind something like that. Maybe even more so than a zombie yeti. Anything zombie yeti does is just gorgeous, but I think this calls for more of that illustrated realism, maybe with some color flares like a Franchi kind of thing, and that's what Randy Martinez does. So I hope that's the case. Coder, we don't know.
    26:37
    Simply don't know. I mean, one would think it's Lonnie Ropp because Brian Eddy does his own code development structure very, very well. So you put somebody like a Lonnie Ropp with him like they did on Stranger Things. Stranger Things isn't just a Lonnie code set. Sure. It was him and, yeah, Vinacore and Eddy all contributed to the rules.
    26:58
    It's been a while since we've seen Clice, Tanya. Yes, I'd love to see that. and that role set has become extremely popular with people I think a lot of people would be happy to see Tanya get involved even if he's not a lead and I wouldn't mind it worked well enough as you all know I'm a big fan of the Stranger Things game so I'm fine if it is Alani Robb I don't like when here at Stern recently we've seen these development teams get in this is our team we're going to do this every game we've seen Steve Ritchie and Tim Sexton on the last two couple games together. We have seen Keith Elwin stick with the same engineer and the coder for his games. I take that back. Maybe not engineer, but coder, Nagel. He works with him a lot. So we've seen – I just want them to mix it up. I like when they mix it up and different people work with it because it gives you a different combination of type of game that comes out. I really strongly believe that. Yeah, but we get a different type of game that comes out every time. We have different teams. I would argue a little bit against that because there is a lot of similarities when you combine that, especially coder and designer. You get a feel based on those two working together. Yeah, but Stern's got more teams than they do cornerstones per year. Very true. So just how much variance do you need before you just shut up? I want to see Dwight Sullivan work with Brian Eddy. That's what I want. Well, maybe we will. Or maybe, hey, it's been a while since we've seen Lyman. Or is he stored in carbonite and only comes out for Kapow's?
    28:43
    You may not be far off. I don't know. Because he's been done with Elvira for a while. But what is he going to do? Who's he going to work with? Because he's not going to work with Elwin, right? I'm saying he could work with Eddie. He could. He could. I mean, again, he doesn't have to be the only is like, I don't I mean, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lyman does not have a rule. I only work alone. Well, no, no one else may weigh in on my rules. This whole Kapow thing. That's what I mean by they get into the structure of sticking on the same teams. He's done. Well, Batman, then he did Elvira. Both kind of Kapow. Those are different designers, though. They were different designers. The whole thing – and I don't know that this is true, but the suspicion that I have and that I know others share, so I'm not staying alone with this. I know where you're going. Yeah, that because those non-cornerstone, the Kapow or the – because I don't know if Elvira was a Kapow. I don't think it was. But no pro model. so given these higher end you know not cornerstone games that they do but also aren't those custom contract jobs studio games is what they call yes thank you studio games there's so far like the studio games it's like hey let's put lyman on them because we don't have a pro but this is going to compel a lot of people to buy it because he's so popular when it comes to rule design so it gets you a certain type of pinball crowd like some of the competitive people will be like oh Gosh, it's so expensive, but it's a Lyman game, so I know it'll ultimately be good. On rules, it's going to be at the, like, I still, again, without formal polling, it seems to me that amongst the competitive players, Lyman Sheets is the most popular programmer slash rule designer in the game. Yeah, I think it's hard to refute there. I mean, generally, the top three that I hear of are his rules, Kiefer's rules, and Keith Elwin's rules. Those are the holy trinity. You're right. Yeah. You are absolutely correct. But when you're ranking the trinity, most of the people I know always say Lyman first. That play competitively. Homeowners is different. Collectors is different. What interests me is Lyman has done some longer shooting games as of late, and sometimes that's why I don't get pulled in or feel quite as, because I like a little tougher, shorter ball time game. Well, you're collector trash, so this isn't surprising. I thought you were going to go with Collector Scum. No, no. Trash is more relevant. Hey, wouldn't it be cool if there was an actual hive on the play field that had Scum and Villainy in it? But that's not the right show. I don't know that one either. So I don't think it's Lyman, but who knows? He is done with Elvira, so he should be working on something else. But something tells me, yeah, they put him on those big ticket items because he kind of sells games just with his work alone. just like a zombie yeti does just like a keith elwynn does wait wait a moment what if for mando ray day's lead oh now don't tease me but i mean it's just possible right he's been there long enough yeah i could conceive it i've asked ray day before uh if he ever had the desire to do a lead on code and he did say listener that sure he does but he thinks a lot of people would be surprised about how much work goes goes into being a lead rather than just part of the team helping to code it he said it is unbelievably difficult and that's all they do it's non-stop doing a lead on a code so there is a little bit of differential between a lead and uh you know so that makes sense and i personally i don't think it would be ray day he seems to be really involved in the rule set with Led Zeppelin. So I've assumed he's too busy. Maybe not ready yet. I've just assumed he's too busy on the prior project to be able to have one that came out this quick. Now, Ray Day, I don't... It's tough. That is a true bias for me because I'm friends with Ray Day. So I want to see him do lead, of course. But Ray Day type games? I mean, we've got Led Zeppelin. We've got Avengers.
    33:00
    Eh. I bet there are other fingers were in the pie there, too. So how much is Ray and how much is Day? Yes. You have to weigh.
    33:12
    It just may. Someday. I was waiting for Delt last week to say, I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast. I'd say, you eat pieces of shit for breakfast? And he'd say, no. Delt doesn't seem like a movie quoting or TV. He was Shooter McGavin, now that I'm thinking about it.
    33:27
    He was. Delt is Shooter McGavin. Do you know what reference that is? Yes, I do. Okay, of course you do. In fact, someone on the EGP Discord just posted some images of their homebrew of that movie.
    33:40
    What? Mm-hmm. You're talking about Billy Madison, not Happy Gilmore. Oh, I thought it was a Happy Gilmore. Am I wrong? I've seen an Adam Sandler Billy Madison homebrew. I'm going to check my Discord right now. Yeah, don't get me excited, man. If there was a Happy Gilmore game, I'd call that person and say, hey, maybe make two of them because I'll buy one. Yep, Happy Gilmore. Oh, who's doing that? Or is it like a private thing? No, this is on my, it's EGP's public Discord. I'm going to have to jump on there. The Bionic Toothpicks who posted the images, but I think it's a friend of his or something. And there's pictures?
    34:17
    Hmm? I know what I'm doing after this show. There you guys go. Subscribe and follow EGP. Because his last remark was, the movie lends itself well to pinball. Absolutely. And I didn't reply, but because it's obviously, yes, it was. Because you hate Adam Sandler. As an actor at this point in his career where he's just going after paychecks, absolutely. But Happy Gilmore is an excellent film. Okay. We're not going to get into that. All right, shipping. We know this is going to release, we're hearing, tomorrow, Tuesday, the 11th of May. Instead of doing the May the 4th, Be With You, I wish they would have just pulled out on May 5th with Justin Timberlake. It's going to be May. that would have been more clever i would have liked that more you got any of those memes yet it's gonna be me no i don't believe in memes anymore i gave up on them five minutes ago what about dank memes the dankest memes are we might still have some floating around my 15 year old gets so mad when i say that what you doing checking out dank memes he hates me dad leave me alone Quit making me play piano in public I love that my son is He is a 15 year old Dennis Creasel And I feel like in between our times Together on this podcast I can merely jump right into that feeling Of interacting with you Dennis By just interacting with him It's the best I don't know what to make of that statement I love him more than life itself So take that as it is When are these things shipping? What's your guess? I would guess within two weeks of the formal reveal. Yes, I would. Tuesday of next week or Wednesday? I'd guess what we're going to get. Two weeks from now. Last couple Sterns have released in a manner where they try to get a handful, very small amount of pros out to locations ASAP. Can I have the first pro?
    36:18
    Nope. You've already committed it. You know you have. They usually get them out to locations first. I have a location. It's called my basement. You know, I can honestly say last couple, they've asked for the Stern Army locations that we'll be purchasing because they'll give me an allotment of... I'm not in the Stern Army. I'm more like the Stern National Guard.
    36:45
    So if you need me to stack sandbags up around the game, I can probably take care of it. Admiral Creasle. He should have been in the military. I could see you being in the military. Yeah, I like to steer boats. Not like the full metal jacket version of the nice military where we just play cards all day and look up dank memes.
    37:08
    I think, yeah, we're going to see some pros rolling out, and then we go full leleys, and then back to pros, and then to premiums. We're going to see the same similar rollout, I believe. Rather, this time we may see more pros initially, but I think we're going to see pros rolling off the line third, fourth week of May, if I had to guess. You'll get a beginning of June LE, again, merely guessing just as a dealer at this point. We have not had our dealer meeting yet. That's tomorrow, I believe.
    37:40
    And then we'll roll to pros and then premiums. No pricing change would be a great thing. But this brings up a very interesting point. Here recently, we've seen a bit of a shift in the marketplace in general, a huge shift, some exponential growth. You've gone from bit of a shift to huge shift to exponential. It's a huge shift. Have you seen the shift? The size of my shift is staggering.
    38:09
    Pinball is fucking expensive. How about that? Oh, sorry. People get offended when I curse as a dealer. We've seen raised prices, and now some dealers are saying, look, if there's supply and demand issues, if I'm only getting so many of something, and if I sell that something to someone and they can turn around and flip it for an extra four grand, which is much, much higher than any profit that I make on any pinball machine, why is Papa not taking home the money? That's a logical question. I don't want to get the dealers wrong, so I will not name them, but I've seen a dealer that said, we're getting in some Mando LEs, but instead of $91.99 MSRP, they will be $11,900.
    38:56
    Wow. I've seen another dealer advertise and then pull the advertisement that they're Mando LEs. I think it was a Betson, one of the largest commercial dealers, $13,000. Wow. Yes. and then another dealer I believe in Texas was doing hey I want to give everybody the opportunity to own one which was so kind by doing an auction you like that little turn of events there because I was reading and I was like oh shit they figured it out sold the baby Yoda fan $15,000 get yourself some free blue cookies No, I'm just kidding. This auction too. Blue cookie one. I know. Five down for blue cookie. You'd be a good auctioneer. What makes you think I've not done it before? Because you assume a lot about me. It wasn't crisp enough. Oh. Yeah. It wasn't crisp enough. It was better than average of what would just naturally come out of it. You heard a lot of like poor auctioneer impressions and a six, maybe a seven. Okay. Or in straight down the middle speak, you're a nine. Oh, no. Not that again.
    40:11
    Excuse me. 8.75. B plus. Got to be B plus. Oh, it's worthless. Put yourself in a hobbyist's shoes. Put yourself in a dealer's shoes, a manufacturer's shoes. If you're a manufacturer, we'll start from the top and work our way down. If you're a manufacturer, Dennis, are you okay with dealers doing this? Or do you think to yourself, maybe we should raise prices? or do you say, hey, good on them. They do a lot of work for us. As long as they're buying the games, it is what it is. Yeah, I think it's mostly the latter. I would say that for the – though I do think that the manufacturers would monitor this and note, hey, if everyone, if most of them, if this is working, maybe we should raise prices. The problem with the manufacturer, though, is if they raise prices, are you raising prices on all the models? If it backfires, how easy is it to roll it back? It's not always that easy. easy to go up it's not always that easy to go back down especially if each of the product lines are in compare you know like what's entry level and what's beyond that um and historically speaking this did happen so sorry to to nerd out a little bit on pinball history but as a reminder uh from a an interview uh with john norris that i read a long time ago and i was doing research on street level pins for those that remember premieres six games that they did that were single level in an era of ramps and were simpler games the msrp on those from gottlieb premiere were lower notably lower substantively lower than the going rate for full featured pinball machines however many of their dealers according to mr norris did not actually honor that reduction and they either kept the exact same msrp as they would on a full featured game or they like shaved 100 bucks off It was nothing. So when you saw a deadly weapon next to Whirlwind and they were the same price, which one were you going to buy? The pricing was the whole point besides the simpler, easier to work on operator maintenance standpoint. The whole incentive was supposed to be, oh, they're more affordable. So it also makes sense. I'm saving money. It makes sense to do this. But can't manufacturers set a ceiling? They set a floor for us dealers.
    42:22
    I assume they could if they go back. They might require signing a new contract with you, though. Ah, yeah. A new arrangement. So all I'm saying is that historically, dealers were allowed to go above the MSRP. But that ultimately hurt the sales of that line, didn't it? Yes, it sabotaged what the manufacturer wanted, and that's why I'm bringing it up. So there is a scenario in place where I could conceive that would cause a problem. However, given we're talking full-featured versus full-featured and what the market can bear, I'm not sure that would end up being the problem that Stern would have. Here's where it would get interesting, though. See, the difference between back then and now is back then, there wasn't internet. People didn't know what the MSRP was. Homeownership was low. Homeownership of pinball was low as well. You were an operator. You went to a distributor, and they had prices, and you could check with another distributor and check their prices if you wanted to, but that was that. You couldn't just go – so we all know what Stern's MSRP is on these games. So that's the thing is anyone, practically everyone, is going to look online and be able to know that, hey, this dealer has added $4,000 to the price versus what the manufacturer suggests it at. That's going to influence the purchasing decision. And I'm going to couple this. I know you want to kind of go through it with a tiered approach, but since I'm on a roll now, I'm going to just keep rolling downhill here. So let say we have dealers distributors who are going to honor MSRP and some that are not That what going to happen This could have a long negative impact on those who raise past MSRP because they going to be seen not as shady but as price gougers And those that still honor – even if they're selling out, those that still honor the MSRP are going to be the first go-tos for everyone. The impatient will pay the extra money and jump over to another and be like – but every time, if I were them, even if I was like, okay, I have to have Mando in time for my kid's birthday, so I'm calling the Texas person. I'm going to buy the game at this ridiculous price. But here are two other dealers that never go over MSRP. They will always be who I turn to for anything that's not an emergency from here on, and they will always be who I try and buy from first because why would I pay extra money if I don't have to? So your thoughts would be it would be a payment thing rather than an integrity kind of business relationship type of thing. When you said, I'll go to these other dealers first because of money, I think there are a lot of enthusiasts out there I've been reading on Pinside that loyalty is a big thing as well. Trust is a big thing as well. And it goes pretty far when we're talking arrangements with pinball machines and money. No, sure. So, I mean, not to – and you're a businessman, Zach. You'll make your own determination. Sure, sure. For example, I would suggest to you as an owner-operator of Flippin' Out Pinball to not do the price raise over the MSRP because I think you will grow your loyal customer base by sticking true to this number. And there's no way to mask what the MSRP is. Everyone will know that the others are gouging. They just will. Nicole and I were speaking over dinner last night about this very thing, And we were discussing, you know, because ultimately, and I'll talk about it here in a bit, what we've decided to do. But if you do raise the price, I wonder, though, because LEs are hard to come by for Stern as a dealer. I'm telling you, listener, that is very true. You'll never get as many LEs as you need or want. So maybe people just do this because what you gain. And this is potentially, I'm not exaggerating, Dennis. This could be for a dealer an extra $2,000 to an extra $50,000, $60,000 profit. If these things really selling for like what GNR kind of did, that's a lot of money left on the table. So do some of these dealers say, you know what? I'm going to maximize it because when it comes around again, people are going to buy them anyway because they're going to want to have them. I don't care if people think that I'm price gouging because, damn it, I'm not going to sell it to a customer and them turn around and make all the money when I'm the one dumping all my time and effort into this. Maybe people forget quickly and still come back and they know I don't care if it ruffles some feathers because they're not going to be my customers anyway. I'm going to maximize my gain and I'm going to continue to do it because it works. Yeah, I'm skeptical that they'll forget that quickly, especially if it's a sizable increase. But that being said, if, for example, this is only limited to LE units and they don't do it on the premiums and pros, because again, I don't see how you could really long-term get away with it on the premiums and pros because Stern is going to eventually make enough to satisfy demand.
    47:19
    So with that, I think in those cases, it would probably come down to how many of their LE buyers are repeat LE buyers. If it's always just a – I mean I know plenty of people within the TPN group that are like – they were all in on Turtles because they're Turtle fanboys and they had to buy Turtles no matter what. And if that means you're going to buy a Turtles LE no matter what and that person is never going to buy a Mando LE or a Stranger Things LE or a Zeppelin LE because they don't care about the theme the same way. They might get premiums. They might get pros, but they would never get the LE. Yeah, there's probably less blowback in that situation. if it stays limited to the LEs. Do you think that if dealers and or Stern even increased pricing of pros or premiums, even from a dealer's perspective, going over MSRP, I don't think that would work because they kind of build an unlimited amount, right? Well, again, pulling from watches, my other hobby, that happens on unlimited models. when they're new. There'll be price spikes, at least on the used market. If you can deal one now. Yeah, but the thing is, usually most of the time with the authorized dealers for the various brands, they don't, and maybe they're not allowed to, but they don't sell over MSRP. But what happens is there's an interest initially and the used market's higher than the new market because people are flipping them. And then once the demand's satisfied, the used market drives up and goes in under MSRP because that's just how markets work. So there's the, I got to have it now, and I'll buy it with the plastic still on it and the sticker still on it from some gray dealer, gray market dealer, and I'll pay an extra grand because I don't want to wait six months for the supply to catch up. Do they get frustrated with the dealers doing that, or is that just kind of a thing that you see and watch collecting? Yeah, they do, but the thing to remember is it's usually two different types of dealers. You're either an authorized dealer or you're gray market. but you're not an authorized dealer who also dabbles in selling what's considered unworn. Yeah, and we see some of that if we're comparing different industries. And I like this. I like this talk. This is a market discussion. This is good. Like sports cards, Panini is one of the established brands. They do a lot of sports cards. But what they'll do is they'll sell, they have authorized dealers, but they'll sell a small amount direct. But what they do is an auction style where it's like a reverse auction. they will announce, hey, this is when the auction starts. They'll have the maximum price for these cards. And they only have a limited supply. So every five minutes, it incrementally goes down, goes down. And the consumer takes a risk. Do I risk waiting it out to save money? I might lose out altogether and then have to pay a dealer fees. I wonder if that kind of… That's an interesting model. I can say as personally this affects my life, it is really, really tough to allot LEs and try to figure it out. It's not so cut and dry, and I feel bad every time I'm doing it because not everybody gets what they want, and there are some good customers, but all I can do is base it off of when people get in a line, in a queue. I'm surprised, and maybe this has happened. I'm surprised that y'all as distributors have not been lobbying Stern to just raise the price on the LEs with the acknowledgement that most of that price raise will go to the distributor network.
    50:56
    Well, us dealers don't have a union, number one. Us dealers – Well, it's not – don't mess with the union. What I'm saying is – More along the lines of, hey, you know, we're seeing a lot of flippers. you guys could raise the price, maybe keep 50% of the increase and let us keep the other 50% of the MSRP increase and we think it would benefit both of our organizations and the store would be like, well, that's a great idea. Yeah, the problem is in the dealer network, it is a business and it is pretty competitive. I wish it wasn't at times, but it can be pretty competitive. So for a large, the majority group of dealers to come together and be like, hey, we need to, let's see if we can, I don't see that happening, nor I think Stern's got the leverage and they'll just be like, no, but there's a door if you want. Okay, well, let's set that mass group quasi-union negotiation aside. Have you ever had a conversation with Stern about what they're setting their MSRPs at? I have not. Okay. I have not. Then I guess no one has. Ma'am, and I'm sure some people do, but it's an interesting discussion. I've even seen, just talking pricing, I've seen, I think recently, Troy at Tilt, great dealer out there. He's even added shipping charges now on some Stern games. And that's something that was pretty much across the board, listener. Shipping was something that's included on Sterns. Yeah, I had never seen a Stern new in box that had shipping charge in the U.S. I've seen a couple dealers do it, but Trent is one of the big ones. And so when he did, I was like, holy crap, there's something shifting here. And that's not just LEs. I mean, that's pros, premiums, LEs. So there are some things that are shifting, but it puts me in a situation I don't know what the hell to do. Ultimately, we do what we think is the most common sense and the most fair and the thing, like you alluded to before, that will gain the most trust and support within the industry and the hobbyists, because that's our main source of LE designation. and that is take a Q list and go down that list, offer MSRP, and not a dime more. And we'll still hold to our free shipping. And this financially is maybe a bad decision, but I'm playing the long game here, and I think it's the right one. I still feel like it's the right thing to do. So that's what we're doing. But it's hard. It's hard knowing there's a lot of money that could be put into use because I know some of my customers are going to flip them, and I ultimately don't care. That's on them. They do whatever the hell they want with their games. And good on them if they can make some money. That's why I'm doing this business. But it is tough. This segment brought to you by Flippin' Out Pinball. Are you Flippin' Out? Shill, shill, shill. Ting. I think for customer base building, it's a good decision.
    53:50
    Might not be the best decision if you're hoping to upgrade from your inflatable pool. Man, pool price. We had a pool person out, and two years is the backup right now. Two years, Dennis. Wow. To get a pool. But you've already built a pool.
    54:07
    Yeah, well, I don't want it to be a landmark in Evansville, Indiana, people taking pictures by my shitty-ass above-ground pool. I'm kind of sick of that. It's like, sorry, Nicole. It's your fault. You're the one who did this. You could have, for birthday parties, you could have brought in Master P, but instead she's just got to sing it herself. is it like that is that what we're talking about so cute haggis pinball in the news they two two more weeks until uh the mermaids close their little cave holes oh what happened to the sirens i i know martin robbins did confirm it you're right Dennis, it was mermaids. I know I was right. I don't take any pleasure in it. It happens so often. He's one of the creators, so I can't argue with his vision. However, if I describe to you a duck over and over and call it a dog, you might say, that's fine. You're creating that product. It can be a duck, but it's really a dog. That's all I'm saying. Quack. two more weeks until the mermaid edition uh is closed i'm i was wrong listener dennis you know i was wrong i thought these would sell out immediately i'm a little surprised that there are still mermaid editions available to purchase do you think it sells out before the two week yes i think there's a decent chance it sounds like they're really i don't know the number but It sounds like it's relatively close.
    55:50
    I think so, too, though it's difficult to say because, of course, the bulk of the buys happened within that first day. Sure. Like you'd expect because everyone was kind of unsure if it would go or not. Absolutely. I mean, this is the first time we've seen a remake of such an old title. And they've learned a lot on this launch because the launch of Kelts wasn't really what a pinball company is used to. That was a license they knew they weren't going to get much response for. This one, this is a big response for them, for their company. I think they learned a lot, and we're going to see that on the next couple of games they release. But I'm excited about it. And I think July 1st is when they start building them. Yeah, the target was in July. So they're getting into the other new establishment and factory and finishing out the Celts. And they're going to jump over to a little mermaid action. Speaking of production updates, Dennis, American Pinball has some upcoming updates. Oh, a new game? Well, hopefully at some point. That's got to be coming soon. Kaz talked about that. But I have a little bit more information here regarding some changes with American Pinball. I found it interesting that I was informed they will soon be adding a second production line to help increase supply and to keep up with a growing demand is what they're calling it. I wonder what their backlog is like. I don't know. They talk about Oktoberfest being on back order right now until it goes back on the production line for the third time, actually. They claim that they're still selling really well. I mean, pinball's hot right now, so it doesn't surprise me too much. That's why Home Pin scooped up balsa.
    57:30
    Oh, that's a whole thing. That is a whole thing. I found this interesting. Oktoberfest is going to be run again, but they're revising the back box. Why? Well, Oktoberfest, unlike Hot Wheels and Houdini, had a different style of head, the sides of the head. This is going to be the classic back box is what they're calling it, the wings. So Oktoberfest is going to get wings. Who cares? Okay. It's a little late. I don't know why it changed. I mean, how many more Oktoberfests are they really going to set? I think this is more just to standardize their parts, which is fine. That's fine. And that's what my first thought was. Oh, Dennis just talked about that. It's maximizing similar parts for a cross model. So that was interesting. It was interesting to me because Dave Fix talked about not liking that head in general.
    58:29
    Oh, yeah. So he fixed it. Yeah, he fixed it by changing it to what it was that he didn't like. I don't know. Another update from American Pinball, Houdini's. They're still running Houdini's, which I love. Oh, wow. It's still my favorite game of American Pinball. You know, those shots are tight but findable. Very much so, Bowden. They very much. I just think it's the best game. But coming standard, going forward, they're going to have updated sound systems with subwoofer. Same as you're going to hear from Hot Wheels and Oktoberfest. So I guess that was a change between Houdini and Octo. Yeah, they're well known for their bitchin' soundtracks. Upgraded power supply is going to be standard now. Also, some EOS switches. Standard. I love EOS switches. Man, that is all the talk right now on pinball. Flipper, saggy flippers, soft flipper, mushy flipper. Yeah, people hate that stuff. Bounce back flippers, yeah. Flipper coil performance improvement kits. and the back box is going to have a topper access port or topper glory hole for those of you. I wish we could install end of stroke switches on pinball flippers who flip pinball machines. That's a novel idea. So they can only go so far. Yeah, and then you've got to turn down their power demand. Yeah, like, okay. Guys, you're going to burn up the market. You've got to calm it down a little bit. Yeah, you only get one strong flip every so often or you overheat. Yeah, if it sat for a week, maybe you need to reduce the price. I didn't know that Houdini toppers were really a thing, but they are creating those again.
    60:03
    I didn't even remember it's topper. Yeah, and the new connector allows for that direct power from the game. I didn't know that the old one didn't, but... So what, it had indirect power or something? I don't know if you just plugged it into a wall. Must have been piggybacking off something. Well, yeah, that could be. It could be a totally separate ore. I wondered if it was just synced to something else, drawing power from an already existing power thing. I don't know. Yeah, and then Hot Wheels was known. They had this nice holiday giveaway where you get a free shaker motor in the Hot Wheels games. Was that for Mother's Day? No, that promotion's over. Oh. That was the whole last year, free shaker motors in Hot Wheels games. Oh, it was a pandemic special. Yeah, kind of the holiday, pandemic holiday. Get your shots and shaker motors. So some changes over at American Pinball, I suppose.
    60:50
    Again, I don't know if they're going to get the response that they're wanting from this. Maybe they don't even expect a big response from it. Everybody's just ready to see that next game, I believe. I'm ready.
    61:01
    Show it to me. Unlicensed. No, no. Surely they've got WandaVision or something. Unlicensed. Falcon and Winter Soldier unlicensed? Last week during this time, I had no energy to do everyone's favorite pinball podcast segment. Meep, meep, meep, meep, meep, meep, meep, meep, meep. Had no energy, no drive, no sexual tension, nothing. I was a flatliner. Meep.
    61:35
    Aww. Last week I was told that everything was trending down with my name attached to it. And the ship was sinking. Good, good, good, good, good And the only person that liked a sinking ship is Bill Webb But this week All of that negativity is gone We know that my co-host Loves nothing more than for me To scream at the top of my lungs Like a beautiful billy goat Pinball Market Trends The non-delta edition Turning up this week Is Deadpool Premium By Stern Pinball not the pro, not the LE so much. It's this squirrely old premium. They recently did a run of Deadpool premiums gone. That wouldn't even close. It didn't even satisfy the back order. That was dumb. And the reason it's training up is because we're still seeing used ones, just the same price as new ones. And you know when their next run is for Deadpool premium that I still have back orders for August, Not May, not June, not July, not August, and I don't have an update past that for production schedule. So we know past August. Wow. That could be another 2022 run. And believe it or not, I still have people saying, you know what, that's fine. I'll wait. Just next time it runs, let me know. It's a fun game. I'm not too surprised. I'm not either, but. But there's been so much that's come out since. I would have thought there would be enough in the used market, but what do I know? Some of those premiums, like a Guardians premium, you don't see too many Guardians of the Galaxy premiums. That's true. There's a lot of that stuff. I think Led Zeppelin, eh, Led Zeppelin not so much because people really prefer that premium with that spinner. Right, right. But, yeah, it's a good point. I have mostly seen Deadpool pros available. Yeah. So the pros are out there. They can be had. But the premiums are hard little things to get your hands on. Also trending up this week is something near and dear to all of us or should be. Show some support to one of the greatest actual pinball ambassadors on the planet. And that is our buddy Ed Robertson from the Bare Naked Ladies. They have a new album out called Detour de Force. See how I did that, Tealus?
    63:58
    And they're... Oh, poor Jeff. Jeff may not like that. and their single, which is a catchy little tune that I've fallen in love with, and it has played on the Final Round Pinball Podcast, so... Uh-oh. Okay.
    64:17
    Nothing's indelible, everything is sellable, whether you're an animal or vegetable or mineral, it's criminal to think it drives a man to drink. Am I coming off like my hips don't sink? Come on, just flip. In a little bit, maybe get a last to a new tip. Come on, friend. Woo!
    64:36
    That's a catchy song. It's a good one. I've not heard Final Round yet, and I've not heard the single, so I don't know the song. Well, going down a little bit today. The vegetable mineral thing reminds me of something they might be giants would have sung, though. Oh! I guess there's some similarities there. I think the only similarity is worth the words. I love the wordplay that B&L does. It's like a Jason Mraz. I like the wordplay. And if you guys have not heard, you've got to go listen to the Final Round Pinball podcast this past week called Big Flip Theory, and Ed Robertson joins them. It was really good. It's in my queue. I'm just so far behind. Work was a mess. I like that Ed Robertson kind of piggybacked off of our Keyboard Commando segment and really discussed as a creator some of the issues that come up now on social media and online with not only just constructive criticism, but just general negativity and hatred towards joy and fun and entertainment. Who throws shade at Canadians? Right? Doesn't make any sense. I mean, other than their syrup addiction. They can't be mad about anything that they do, really. We basically imported all our comedians from Canada all the good ones That where Delt should have went He should have been throwing shade at Canada because TPN is comprised mostly of Canadians We lost the America touch TPN Like, at least 40% syrup. Yeah, TCPN. From here on out. But, shout out to the Bare Naked Ladies, and especially to Ed Robertson. And I feel strongly about this, as I talked at the beginning of the show, that we need to be proud of pinball. We need to be proud of individuals that are pushing it forward like an Ed Robertson. So go listen to that. Support that band. Support that song in any way that you can. It just so happens to be good and fun, which is nice. But I can't be good. I can't be fun on things that are trending down and down this week. Here's a game I love. It's Star Wars Premium and Ellie by Stern. The original artwork by PC.
    66:44
    It wasn't. they were assets and they were hand drawn felted yeah no those were hand drawn hand traced assets yeah there it is that's what always cracks me up when everybody's like no that's photoshopped and i'm like that's literally what some of franchise stuff looks like so where's the difference we won't get into that but i think the difference with the star wars one was the exact same poses were you know from other things they'd seen before that was the That was the issue.
    67:17
    And it was the photorealistic style, so they just sort of thought that it was cut and paste. It just wasn't good choices of that. No, it's just people, you know, I'm going to sum it up probably somewhat inaccurately, but I think mostly accurately, where people are kind of like, hey, I can get Han Solo looking exactly the same on the lunchbox. If I'm paying this much for a pinball machine, it should be a unique pose. You are not wrong. But Franch uses those. he uses the things that are already made that's how he does all of his illustrations do you know that?
    67:50
    no I didn't he uses all those references so you'll see monsters in that same exact positioning I believe Fran should tell me if I'm wrong I think that's the case we're not doing art market trends here turning down Star Wars Premium LE because now that Mandalorian is has been announced is coming out people don't feel that strong need to always have to have a Star Wars pin in their collection. We've seen a lot of LEs go up in the last week or so.
    68:21
    People only want to know if it can do the hand wavy thing or not. I wanted the LE before I got my comic premium. I wanted that LE but couldn't find one. So I said to hell with it. I'll go with it. But now you can find one. Yeah, but it's too late now. I've already put too much into my premium comic. Now those aren't dropping. That is the desirable one Didn't make a whole hell of a lot of them And those are going You're going to find a use one of those more than MSRP But now these other ones I've seen LEs dropping in the 7s The 7s For an LE stern right now It's preposterous Inconceivable Where's Princess Bride Maybe American Pinball could do Princess Bride I think that would be fitting Because I know it's a cult classic But it's just not really that good of a movie So Oh, edit that out. I know. It's going to get some hate. Edit that out. Gosh, you thought you got complaints about the Delta episode. It's good, but I guess before my time. I don't know.
    69:21
    It's like the Monty Python stuff. You guys realize that's not fun stuff. R-O-U-S's toys. They can eat the ball. Like the rabbit. Oh, it's hilarious. Let me tell you. Killer rabbit. I've heard better jokes on podcast. I don't really take movie criticism from someone who purports Crudes 2 as the pinnacle of comedy.
    69:41
    Pinnacle strong, but it is my jam. But Interstellar, nap, Interstellar still is better. Let's not go back into Interstellar after others. For those that don't know, because how could you?
    69:55
    There were folks, they privately reached out to Zach and me about how wrong Zach was about Interstellar. that's just it's better than the martian that's for damn sure and it was specific to marsha was forgettable no matt damon is never forgettable his poop potatoes he was better with interstellar than he wasn't the only thing i remember interstellar is got the all right all right guy hiding behind a bookcase oh you know his name because there's a poster right behind you. I see it. Matthew McConaughey. Oh.
    70:29
    Do you know what Reverend said? No, I do not. Wolf of Wall Street, baby. Oh, I haven't seen that. Oh my gosh, Dennis, you have to see that. I don't know. You like Interstellar, so maybe this is a mistake. No, anything with Leonardo DiCaprio is gold, my friend. Gold.
    70:47
    Also trending down this week, Pewter Edition is taking deposits for games that customers haven't seen yet.
    70:55
    Dealers. You're my cohort. I love you guys. Most of you guys. But trying to jump ahead of the curve and start getting your orders in for your pros and premiums. We're not talking L.E.'s, people. People are taking money from customers and the game hasn't even been shown. I'm referencing Mandalorian by staring pinball. But I'm seeing ads on Pinside and Facebook. Hey, we're taking deposits now. No.
    71:22
    Dennis, would you ever feel good taking money from somebody when they haven't seen the damn game uh i don't know this is the way this is not the way certainly not my way this is not the way to do it well what what happened to this industry can we not just happen with uh with bloodsuckers and rick and morty you might feel so long ago i don't know you may be right i thought some people had criticized that they hadn't seen everything about it when they had the opportunity to and you had to buy quick because you know how fast that sold. I think the difference for me would be that. And that included a deposit. I know, but I think for me there's a little difference there because that is an LE limited number of units. This is not. This is a pro and premium. People can, they're going to build these things for years. I don't know about slicing the apple this thin. I do. You do. I don't feel good about it. And I know what they're doing. I don't do deposits. Thank you. I don't. That's the one thing. You're asking, like, would I be willing to pay one for an unseen game? No, because I don't even pay the deposits for seen games. I've had people requesting, hey, can I please do a deposit? Hey, can I play? And I was telling them, there's just no need. Look at the games first. It makes some people feel safer. And that's fine. I will take it. Because they're used to that buying on the used market where it's like, you know, the ad's still up. I'm sure you've experienced that where you've made a deal with someone, but they still have the ad up, and you have this sinking feeling that you're going to... Yes. You know that happened to me. I didn't buy a pinball machine for four years after someone did that to me. Oh, I remember you talking about showing up. Yeah, I got there. I remember that. I don't know if they were scared or what, but they wouldn't send me a message saying they sold it to someone else and wasted my time. It was election night. The traffic was terrible. Yeah, I just don't like throwing up pictures like they're an official picture and taking deposits. Just let the customer see the damn thing first. Let them see it. I know some dealers will take deposits. We don't take deposits on pros and premiums at Flippin' Out Pinball. You know what? Since it dealt shit on me so bad, this is a heavy Flippin' Out episode. This ad is brought to you by Flippin' Out Pinball. You'd be Flippin' Out without a deposit. We do. That's right.
    73:31
    Flippin' Out. No need for deposits. If you want it, I'll hold one for you. That's all. Do you think the new Barenaked Lady single Flip is encroaching on your trademark? Have you written to Ed and said, where's the in-out? You know, we could have made a deal. Come on, Flippin' Out. It doesn't roll. Shipping him games right to the border, like right at the edge of Washington State. Furthest you can reach. Yeah, right. If Ed Robertson wanted a game, I would drive it all the way up to his house. He buys lots of games. No, it's from me. Yeah, I'm saying it's from me. It's not from you. From me. Coin taker for life.
    74:05
    No, I don't think he crosses borders there. No, probably not. The next one is not a trending up, it's not a trending down, it's a trending prediction. I was going to trim this up but then Dennis would have called me out you have no evidence of that and that would have been fair you do it all the time though I only call out a few of them I am predicting and giving you guys a heads up on Batman 66 Premium here's the lowdown don't tell Stern I said this nobody from Stern listens to this podcast that's true Batman 66 Premium is going to get a run in July there are a number of dealers including myself that do still have a couple spots left. That's been long confirmed. But, last run. None in the seeable future. No future foreseeable runs. If you want one, I predict these are going to start training up because they're going to be Where are the runs going? Where are the runs? I'll show you the difference between getting a new pen and having diarrhea. Where are the runs? You had to work for that one and it paid off. Swear to me. Not the Catwoman edition. Deals of the week this week. I found a juicy one. My, my, my! And you guys may disagree with me. Yep, I already do. Yep, if you look into the pen side,
    75:21
    there is for sale for $20,000. It's not a deal with WTF. It's not a deal. I think it is. This is the Whitewood Total Nuclear Annihilation. The. This is a historic game. It's special, but that doesn't make it a deal. It sure does, because you can't put a price on that. Yes, you can.
    75:48
    Someone just did hand-drawn artwork. I mean, come on. Sharpie? This is a special game, Dennis. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that I wouldn't ever classify it as a deal. Outside of Chicago, one of my friends is selling this. You don't have any friends. I've got three or four. Nobody likes you, Precious.
    76:12
    After last week. Probably don't know what that's from either. Elite Pinball Toppers is selling the original, the one, the only, white wood. It's what all the folklore is about. TNA, $20,000. That's a lot of money. I didn't know they had it. I thought Scott still had it. The pinball machine belongs in a museum.
    76:31
    Don't look at the price, Marion. Keep your eyes shut. Damn it. Even better. I've thought about buying this. Why? I don't know. You don't even like TNA. I do. I really like TNA. I love TNA. That's true. You actually gave it a fairly positive review. I think it was at least a B. In the collection, it didn't stick as well as I'd like it to. Because it doesn't fit in the lineup with anything. Actually, that is true. That's your problem. The Lightwood really won't, because that's like thrown in a Dolly Parton cabinet or something. I would, no, honestly, if I bought this, I would have to buy a similar cabinet of a game I like, just so I at least have two. Yeah, I know how you are. You've got this OCD thing. It's not healthy. I may actually reach out to Jordan because I could see this next to an actual restored dolly. I would like that. I would consider just getting like a wader, a wading pool to put next to your, like as an add-on to your inflatable. Dennis, I'm getting a fathom. Yeah, I know. This would go right. That's going to be a fancy haggis fathom with shiny reflecto cab. $20,000.
    77:32
    That's a deal. Buy, buy, buy. But what is not a deal is a deal of the. Help! An Alice Cooper topper on Pinside. Listener, do you remember that hideously ugly topper that Charlie and crew made for the Alice Cooper? It was priced right? I don't remember the topper. It had a little brain in a jar. Oh, is that the brain one? Yes. I remember now. It's the brain one, and then the Rick and Morty is the Tribble one. No, this was the Tribble one. Oh, okay. This was the brain in the jar Tribble. And I thought it looked like a Tribble. Yes. Yes, because it had little eyes. Yeah. It's adorable. Why do you not like it? It's ugly. It's hideous. If I owned an Alice Cooper, I'd rather go topperless. That's how much I disdain this topper. I hate it. It's shaking back, and I hate it. Dallas Penn out of Frisco, Texas is trying. And I like Dallas Penn. I really like Dallas Penn. But $1,400 Oboe, maybe the market will call for it. I don't think so. Nope. It's hideous. It's ugly. Try better. Sell, sell, sell. I want Spooky to come out with an actually good topper. What? Just once. They do. Lots of good toppers called free. Just because something's free doesn't mean it's good. I think it was Twippy award winning.
    78:44
    Even more clearly, just because something wins a Twippy does not mean it's good. I'm just saying it's got some sort of credence. Popular, maybe. It's got some popularity. It's got fans. Oh, God. We'll go back to this correlation thing again.
    79:00
    Just because it's a correlation doesn't mean it's popular. Correlation does not mean causation. Is that what you're trying to say to me? That's what I tried to say last week Academy Awards sometimes have best pictures That I don't think are the best pictures You know box office numbers are a lot higher on Avengers But you don't see it winning best picture That's an argument I should have went into Last week as well Well if you were smart maybe you would have thought of those things at the time And ladies and gentlemen that was The Pinball Network presenting The Pinball Show presenting Flipping out sponsoring Pinball Market Trends Oh, I didn't know if that was Alvin Jones or Bella's. I realized I was not on anything. It was in between all flavors. The Howdy Ho was a little questionable. Oh, well, don't really care. Mr. Hanky didn't even know if he wanted to roll out that. Howdy Ho? Question mark? Those market trains smell like flowers.
    79:58
    Closing down the show this week, I did miss you. and it just makes me appreciate so much you and what you bring to the show when I have co-hosts on like that. What, do you want to debate? Would you like to go online for a few minutes and pull some quotes of mine and try and use them against me? Oh, you've said some pretty atrocious things to me, but I know it's out of love. That's truly, you're just trying to help me, trying to make me better. That's true. I don't know. I thought I saw someone on Pinside say I could only love myself, And then I also thought I saw something involving a flashlight. What about the wet towel? And the wet blanket or wet towel thing? Oh, it was a wet blanket. Yeah, a lot of. I've seen a lot of things in my days. Yeah, but the people who care, they care immensely, and that's all that matters. You know, last week I even had a, this is how lighthearted and conflict-based but fun. I even had my own song with fresh lyrics that I was going to sing to Delt. but it didn't go in the direction I thought that would be fitting. So I had to scrap the whole song. It was probably for the best. I'm not sure where in that episode a song would have made any sense. Yeah, it was a Shania Twain-based country song about trolls. But hit the cutting room floor. Yeah, because you were just dripping with kindness during that episode. I was friendly little boogie. And Tony's a friendly little boogie on the Collected Gamers podcast. Tell people what they need to do to follow and subscribe and everything. No, they can always go to facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast, and all the relevant links are there, and they can always reach out to me if they need to talk to me about something through that or via eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com. Perfect, perfect. And you can reach out to Dennis Nye, David Dennis, George Fisher, whoever you want in the TPN bunch at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. It's not a dictatorship. Please don't email thepinballnetwork at gmail.com trying to buy games.
    81:52
    That's happened a couple times, hasn't it? A few, and it's just like, it's not the right email. I see my way of locking in that sale. It's going to be a busy-ass week indeed. The product showcased this week for Flippin' Out Pinballs, Jurassic Park Pro. Just got shipment in. They're always hard to keep in stock, so bye-bye-bye. That was a pterodactyl sound effect. I didn't know if it was that or a baby raptor. No, they're more like baby T-Rex. That's what it sounds like on Lost World. T-Rexes are born fully grown. Batman 66, get your premium spot now before they're gone. Stranger Things Pro is getting low. Low, low, low. Avengers Pro, super low. I think I've got one left right now. Team NT Pros and Premiums, Led Zeppelin Pros and Premiums. Plenty of those, so don't rush. We've got an inventory of those. I don't think Stern has any, though. So, just at dealers right now. Stern doesn't have any inventory of anything. They can't build anything. Do they store a lot of inventory? I never thought they did. They don't. No. In the past, they would just make as much as they can before moving on to another one. But no, they don't. I think after WWE, they learned their lesson. They just build what's ordered. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Elvira, they've ran into more parts issues.
    83:05
    Everyone wants it. Some that were supposed to get them in May, some of them got pushed back until August. They're going to try to run the remainder in August when they get some parts. I wish them luck. I like that game. It's a lot of fun. I wish I could afford it. Absolutely. Golden Tee 2021. We have some pre-order spots left for the July run. Those are always hard to keep. Got any Hot Wheels? Hot Wheels, yeah. Get you Hot Wheels, yeah.
    83:31
    Banners, side art, armor, et cetera. Jurassic Park Pro Arcade, you name it. And if you're wanting to watch all the festivities and the fun, anything from pinball, arcade, rubber bands, barbecues, straight down the middle. You can email us. When is straight down the middle going to interview the rubber band collector? because I want to watch that episode on 1X. Greg just filmed a Monopoly video. Maybe .5X. I haven't decided yet. We'll see that coming very, very soon. TPN last week, final round pinball podcast. We talked about it already. Big flip theory with Ed Robertson. Silver Ball Chronicles, episode 14, Gomez. This one has a lot of arcade stuff. Kind of an incorrect title there because it... Did it not have a lot of arcade stuff? It did have a lot of arcade stuff. I haven't heard it yet. But it also had a lot of George's early pinball stuff. Yeah, but it would have been a lot to say. This one has a lot of arcade and pinball stuff. This one's got a lot of stuff. Yeah. George Gomez, the Toymaker Gears. I don't know. Off the Record Pinball Podcast, Episode 11, Free Play Pinball Podcast with Amanda, Hammy the Hamilton, and Wildman Burrito Bill Webb himself. They've issued a pilot to Off the Record and TPN. And this just in, Dennis, I think you and I can announce here on the pinball show that Free Play Pinball Podcast with Hamilton and Webb is going into the TPN lineup. So congratulations to listeners of that show. I think it's going to be a really good one going forward. You get Bill Webb and his antics that you've become familiar with on the Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. And you get newcomer Amanda Miss Lord Helmet Hamilton with her sauciness. People really liked her guest stint on this show, too. She was a hot number there. So you're going to hear them every other week on TPN. Congratulations to Free Play Pinball Podcast. Yay! TPN this week, we're going to be getting just another pinball podcast, I would bet, from Engelberth. Oh, it may or may not be a flipping out stream last week, but Joel Engelberth had a stream on Led Zeppelin. Jeff Teolis not only phoned in, but he was on video during the majority of the event. Then you had people like Craig Bobby and Pensomniac jump in there. That was an awesome, awesome episode. Go watch the VOD of that. But Jeff T. Ellis riding on his arm and talking about hot tub streams was phenomenal. Just phenomenal. And you can check the top ten because I guarantee you the prank that TPM pulled on Jeff T. Ellis on that stream will be in your top ten clips this week. Maybe we'll have a Jesse J. this week. Maybe. Maybe with Jesse Maybe not We never know with Ryan You never know He's a wild card A rebel What about Bruce? Where the hell is Bruce? A cat Brucey and Kitty Where they at? I do want to give a shout out Before we end today Johnny Pinball From Totally Pinball Podcast He aired Nice enough to air Two episodes On the Off the record Here at TPN He has branched out And started his own Regular podcast Under the same name Totally Pinball And maybe just Follow Like Go Continue to listen because he's not gone. He is not gone at all, so he has his own podcast that he's continuing with, and we are happy to support him in the early stages of that and take a lot of pride in that. So go follow and listen to Johnny Pinball. And for Dennis Creasel, I'm always going to be your Zach Minney. And remember, if you can make money, you can always make more money. Price up today. And always practice safe pinball, and it is I that eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast. So long, everybody.
    87:10
    That ain't no No, no, that's okay. I'll just weave some other gold elsewhere. That's so fucking stupid. I don't get that. This hobby's weird.
    87:25
    The shill DeLorean. Where do we go from there? I've got this baby Ellie. I've got to get it back to its own kind. You don't want to lose it again But I'm not like them Baby, when you find a beat A kick from somebody Guess what? It's gonna be me