Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Hanalei Happy New Year's Eve everybody! Is Stern smoking that Puff the Magic Dragon? 700 D&D LEs is what I'm hearing People are not giving me credit for that on Pinside It doesn't matter. We're right around the corner. It's almost 2025. And do we think on this New Year's Eve today, Stern Pinball is going to announce Dungeons and Dragons, the worst kept secret in pinball? Will 700 LEs sell at $13,000? Will there be enough magic in this game to justify the price? Let's talk about that on this episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast. I'm actually naming this episode. Kaneda plays DA on DND, not Dead on Arrival, but Devil's Advocate on this game. I know what you're all thinking. You're like, Kaneda, don't do it. Don't shill the machine for a stern pinball. But I just want to say, when you really step back and think about it, Dungeons and Dragons could make for an amazing pinball experience. It also will never justify the prices that pinball is currently at. Because at these prices, the unfortunate thing for each and every one of us is unless it's a AAA theme, nothing feels like you should buy it right now. And we're going to talk about that. Now, I also want to say I hope you all enjoyed The end of the year, Kaneda Kudos Awards. I saw some Kevin Loza on Pinball Enthusiast wrote this huge paragraph. Someone sent it to me because I'm banned from Pinball Enthusiast. Being like, how dare this guy claim he's a great marketer. And then he releases this terrible award show with a crappy PowerPoint. And the fonts are going off the screen because when I moved it over to my wife's computer, she did not have my fonts. Let me just tell you this right now. That show is just going to be a podcast. I decided an hour before to make a few slides to go along with the damn Saturday Morning Spectacular, which I never do anything like that ever. And we still have so many people who follow every single week. So if you think that that's an indication of my marketing skills, I don't know what's wrong with people. You know, there's so many joyless losers in the world that are not waking up in a good mood, but Canada's living rent-free in their head because obviously that guy watched the show. All right, everybody. So we gave Jaws game of the year. And I think in summary of 2024, as we are on New Year's Eve, let's all face it. There were 14 games and there wasn't one, really one triple A take my money now theme in the entire pinball world. Jaws was the best theme that was out, but it's still like, how many of you, do you all own Jaws pinball machines? It still did not light the pinball world on fire. And it wasn't a theme that actually is perfect for pinball. I don't know. It's an okay theme for pinball going shark hunting, but it didn't really light the pinball world on fire the way games like, I don't know, like Guns and Roses sold way better. Godzilla sold way better. Games like Ghostbusters sold better. Games like Metallica sold maybe just as hot as Jaws. So look, all of these companies, all of the market research that is available is not utilized and we end up with themes like that. The good news is, as we head into 2025, I don't think we're gonna have that problem. I think we're gonna have a plethora of great themes this year. We're seeing stuff like Harry Potter, Gremlins, Goonies. I don't know if Back to the Future is gonna be ready. Probably not. stuff like the Matrix, Super Mario Brothers. We've got stuff like maybe Predator from Pinball Brothers. We've got other things coming out. I don't know. What's Barrels of Fun Game? Is it Gremlins? What's going to be next? We know Sonic the Hedgehog might come out. Now, we do know that the first game introducing us, oh, I forgot King Kong. The first game introducing us into 2025 is going to be Dungeons and Dragons from Stern Pinball. Now, let's talk about this for a minute because this title is really being like blasted as not a great theme for pinball. I think a lot of people think this game is going to be dead on arrival. They think that this game will be a sales flop. They think it's going to be the next Venom. They think it's a theme that most people did not ask for. Now look, on the surface, you're not wrong. Dungeons and Dragons, if you're trying to sell pinball machines To people that are 40 to 60 years old who have disposable income, a lot of disposable income now at these prices, this is not where I would land the plane. To give you a little bit of the backstory on why Stern Pinball is making this game, I know how this theme arrived at Stern Pinball. And it wasn't because George and Seth wanted to make D&D. Hasbro went to Stern. Hasbro is the IP holder of D&D and they went to Stern and they wanted to make this game and so that is how this worked and maybe Stern wants access to other Hasbro titles I believe it's Hasbro right it's not Mattel I didn't get this wrong I didn't google this before but I'm really pretty positive it's Hasbro and so I think that is why they're making this game and maybe this is going to open the door for Stern to make more Mattel titles. Maybe one of them I think or no did I say Mattel More Hasbro titles Maybe one of them is going to be He Is that Hasbro Maybe it going to be another Transformers game Maybe it going to be other stuff in the Hasbro sort of portfolio. So that is why they're making D&D. Now, everyone's like, this game's going to flop. It's going to be the next Venom. It's got Dwight on code. It's got Brian Eddy, who really hasn't had a hit-hit game. Stranger Things bailed them out because it is Stranger Things, and the UV mode is so cool, but for the most part, remember when Stranger Things came out, everybody? Remember the response to that game? And so Venom was a flop, Mandalorian didn't do really well, and so here we are. Brian Eddy, the guy we've been waiting for, is he finally going to bring some of his magic from the Bally Williams days to Stern Pinball. Now look, think about it. Dungeons and Dragons. If there ever was a theme that opened the door or lowered the drawbridge for the spiritual successor to a little game that is still to this day ranked the third best pinball machine of all time with over 2,200 consumer reviews. This has more reviews than Godzilla, than Jurassic Park. Most people in pinball think that Medieval Madness is the best pinball machine ever made. It is currently number three on the pin side top 100. So if you think about D&D as a theme, it is the perfect spiritual successor to Medieval Madness. so is Brian Eddy and our Dwight and the team over at Stern, are they going to make a game that is worthy to be sort of like the spiritual sequel to medieval madness? I mean, think about it. You got castles, you got dungeons, you've got wizards, you got dragons, you've got all these different people like knights and orcs and all the stuff that happens in a medieval fantasy world is in the world of D&D. A big question mark for you and me is what is it based on? Is it based on the Dungeons and Dragons movie that just came out that was actually critically acclaimed but did not do that well at the box office? I've seen the movie. It's really good, but it's not the kind of movie I'm going to watch over and over and over again. I think it was just like really surprising how good that movie was. But again, it's not a movie that's become iconic. It's not a movie that you want to own a pinball machine, especially one that's this expensive, and put it in your game room. I think the best indication that it's not a movie that's ready for a pinball sort of treatment, it's not a movie that you quote lines from over and over again. It's not a movie that you remember scenes from over and over again. And so that begs the question, is it going to be based on the 80s cartoon of D&D? Or is it going to be an all original D&D journey that's going to be animated by Stern Pinball's coding and software team? So a lot of big question marks there. And I think where this gets challenging now is there really is no version of D&D that really seems like they should charge us as much money as they would for stuff like James Bond when you have all the assets or stuff like Godzilla or Jaws. And so Dungeons and Dragons, following up the monstrous release of Metallica LE, is this title gonna be something that people buy on day one? Now, I just wanna say, playing Devil's Advocate, I think this game is gonna be loaded. I think it's gonna be loaded with mechanisms and stuff we haven't seen in a long time from Stern Pinball. I think this game has been in development longer than most games, and that's why it was delayed. I don't think they removed anything from this game. I do think this is the game that Keith Elwin looked at and said, oh my gosh, we're making one of the most amazing, biggest, craziest mechs Stern Pinball has ever made. I think what's going to be in D&D is going to embarrass even the building in Godzilla that we all went crazy for. So I think this game is going to feature mechs, mechs, mechs. I think it's going to have a lot of toys in it. I think it's going to make other stuff in the pinball world of recent release look barren and empty. I think Stern Pinball knows they need to load this game up. I had a phone conversation with Seth Davis. He said the next two cornerstones, Chris, have a lot more creative stuff in them than we've ever done before. So if that doesn't get you excited, I don't know what will. And the thing is this. Now, all of a sudden, you start to realize like if they can make a game loaded with fun toys, a subject matter very similar to medieval madness. Why couldn't they? If you think about it, make a game that's going to be just amazingly fun, pinball experience, load it with a world under glass, and make it in a way that makes replay value and jumping on it fun time and time again. Now, the thing they need to nail, and if you go watch gameplay of Medieval Madness, what's the one thing they really need to nail? They need to nail the campiness, the fun, and the personality. I think that's the word I'm looking for. The personality in the game. Medieval Madness when you listen to those call it is so embarrassing how good those call are in that game Have you played a pinball machine since medieval madness I mean this in the last four years does any game have any call that are nearly as good as the call-outs in medieval madness? And then you ask yourself, what's going on in pinball? Why can't we get more energy, more personality, more liveliness into these games, right? You want to make it feel like something totally awesome for this much money. You should be laughing out loud when you play your machines. You should hear things that you didn't think you were going to hear that make you laugh. And I mean this when they do new code updates. Why don't these companies insert call outs that are actually like reflective of stuff that's maybe happened in the world or stuff that's happened in the pinball world that would just be really funny. Like imagine turning on your D&D game and there's like a court jester character and he's like, wow, like look at this game. It's got a lot more toys in it than that new avatar game. You know, enjoy your new Stern pinball machine. Like why don't they do anything like that? There's like no comedy dialed in that's actually like breaking the third wall and actually doing something unexpected. And I think these companies need to wake up because the opportunity to take this 13 or seven to $13,000 humongous box of lights and speakers and toys, you can make it do almost anything with call outs, right? There is no barrier to saying something funny in a pinball machine and we just need more of it. And so then I get a little nervous because the guy coding this machine is Dwight. And I'm just not sure that Dwight punches personality into his games. Whenever I hear him talk about games, he really approaches them in terms of like how to score and how to multiply your scoring and how to stack things and stack modes. And then I get really nervous because if Dwight, the king of stacking and multiplying, is now in charge of a game with a 20-sided die and it's like a role-playing game like D&D and he's got like that role-playing mindset, you might argue that he's perfect and he probably is. But you might also be a little bit nervous that he's going to go overboard and make this game overly complex, which in my honest opinion is what's making a lot of modern pinball not fun. Too much modern pinball is overly complex. The rule sets are ridiculous. I don't want to know or need to know all of this stuff to enjoy the game to its fullest. And again, go play the original Medieval Madness. You don't need some stupid rule book to understand how to play the game. It's all pretty straightforward. The inserts tell you like how to progress through the game. The call outs do. It's not hard to understand. And even if you don't even know what you're doing, you're going to get a lot of satisfaction from bashing the castle, putting the ball in the catapult, all the different shots like go somewhere or do something fun. And that's what we need. And I think this game could have that. Remember, Stern Pinball has got the best flippers in pinball. They got the best gameplay feel. And so, you know, here we are on the eve of this game. Now, the biggest problem in, you know, getting excited about this game, and I'm trying to get you excited about this game because I want pinball to be exciting. Every pinball machine that comes out, I want to buy it. I want to own it. I want to feel like they did something so awesome that I just have to have it. You know, look at Evil Dead. It's awesome. Like there's so much awesome stuff in that game. I just don't want it because of the theme. I can't get over the theme. I'm just not into those kinds of movies. And I know that about myself. And so that's fine. I'll wait because Spooky Pinball is making Goonies next. And I just watched Goonies movie. It's amazing. It's going to make for an amazing pinball machine. And the big pirate ship is going to be awesome. They know it's next. They know they're working on it. And that's why they won't tell us that they're not working on Goonies because Goonies is next. And so when that happens, the only thing I ask of spooky pinball, And I know other people keep asking this. Stop using so many servos and your games will be much more reliable. Okay, here we go, people. So they're going to make 700 LEs. I think Stern is like lost now. Like they're just guessing on how many LEs they should be making. I don't like 700 because now you got some random number of LEs that you haven't done before. Just do 500. Like stop. Just do 500, 700 D&D at 13,000. The problem is this, is the premium is going to be the same exact game as the LE and it's $3,000 cheaper or more if they price increased a little bit. I don't think they're going to. I think it's going to be 13,700 units. But again, why would you buy one? Do you really think D&D LE is ever going to hold any value? and why buy one for 13? Also, we know that Harry Potter, I didn't even mention Harry Potter, that's around the corner. That's coming out in February, March. And I know that they switched the order. So Stern now wants to have King Kong ready to go against Harry Potter That is why Kong got moved after D It was gonna come out before okay it ready to go kong is ready to go and so as excited as we always get to see a new pinball machine there nothing exciting about the fact that they're going to want this much money for what is obviously going to be another hugely depreciating game and every single game is depreciated so what's going to make this any different, right? What is going to make this any different? There's no way D&D is ever going to have the same amount of like love as James Bond or Jaws. James Bond has lost a ton of value. Foo Fighters has a huge fan base. Those games lost a ton of value. John Wick, I don't even have to tell you about that and Venom. So, you know, is D&D more popular than a Marvel theme like X-Men? No, but look at what happened to those games. And so I would love to say that D&D can somehow find a way past all of those barriers and the hesitation to running into a new in-box purchase. But I just have to tell you, as much as I'm excited for this game and I think this game could be awesome, almost no game now can be awesome enough to justify buying new in-box on day one. Unless you know it's got crazy demand like Metallica did. And I don't think this is going to have that. I really don't. I think it's going to excite us. I think because expectations are so low, this game will exceed our expectations. But I also think there's going to be a sobering reality. If you just wait, I still see D&D LE going from $13,000 to $10,000 in less than six months, regardless of how great the game is. I mean that regardless, because 10K is what an LE should cost. It's what the market says LEs should be valued at. And that is why every single secondhand LE, every single LE other than Jaws is selling for 10,000 or less. And then obviously Metallica is an anomaly. And that's just a whole nother thing, right? Whenever they do these remakes of classic iconic games, yeah, all bets are off. Like if it was Lord of the Rings or Tron, you know, those games would be worth like 15 to 20 grand if they only made 500. But those again are anomaly titles, not cornerstones. Remember, Metallica Remastered is not a cornerstone. And so that's where we're at in pinball. So I would encourage each and every one of you to not buy this game this week. Just wait it out. Trust me, it's never, never, never going to be hard to get. And it's never going to go up in value. and once you know that, you have enough willpower now to just avoid it. I also think Stern waited too long. Let me explain this. What have you all been doing the last week? I've been drinking a lot of booze. I've been eating a lot of food. I haven't been thinking like a responsible adult. It's the holidays, right? I went out with Brenda. I'll be honest. I went out with Brenda, spoiled my baby girl. We went out for lunch. I had a few espresso martinis. We walked into Tiffany's next door and I was supposed to just pick up something. I bought her and then I ended up buying her another piece of jewelry that cost as much as a Stern LE. So there goes my pinball purchase for the next few months. It went to something for my beautiful wife. And that is it, man. That's the holidays for you. That's the holidays for everybody. We're all out there. We're drinking. We're spending money. We're making impulse purchases and we're spending a lot. And come January 6th, the week of January 6th, The week that Stern Pinball is going to show this game at CES, the week the media are going to spend their own money to go to Stern Pinball, that is going to be a week that each and every one of us looks at our checking account and realizes the damage that has happened. And we're most likely going to tighten the wallet, right? We're going to close the wallet. You know, there's a reason why people do dry January. You stop wanting to drink as much. You want to eat a little bit better. You want to make a New Year's resolution. And here's the thing. Here's a good New Year's resolution. Stop losing money on pinball. Stop losing thousands of dollars and chasing these high-priced new-in-box games. And these companies will lower prices. It's that simple, people. I have more subscribers than they're making of LEs. And look, I would love to tell you, go in on one. For like the first seven years of my show, I would tell you to go in on every LE because you couldn't lose. It was the safest bet in all of pinball to grab every single LE that came out. The worst case scenario, you would sell it for MSRP. The best case scenario, you would make a bunch of money. It was a win-win. Now it's nothing but a lose, people. Just wait it out. Everybody, happy new year. I hope you guys have a great, great New Year's Eve. I always find it a little bit depressing, like New Year's Eve. Like I haven't stayed up to midnight in 20 years. When you're young, it's fun, but I'm just tired. I really am. All you parents out there, you're surviving the holidays a little bit with your kids, especially if you have young kids. I love it so much. I love spending every moment with my boys and my wife and my sister-in-law is here. But man, these are long, long days, everybody. But you know what? They're long enough that I can get a podcast out at 6.30 in the morning. Everybody, be good. I'll talk to you soon. Up the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Hanalei It's making the defaulting. question. I can't believe it.