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Episode 22 - Die on this Hill: Sinbad

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·33m 23s·analyzed·Mar 18, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Defenders argue Sinbad (Gottlieb 1978) is criminally underrated, blaming negative reviews on player skill gaps and misunderstanding of design intent.

Summary

Alan (Portland Pinball Bar co-owner) and Alex (The Waterboy) host Rachel and Kale from Electric Bat in Tempe, Arizona defending Gottlieb's 1978 System 1 machine Sinbad in the "Die on this Hill" segment. Guests argue the game is criminally underrated on Pinside (ranked #226), praising its four-flipper scissor layout, sequential drop-target banks, Gordon Morrison artwork, and Ed Krinsky design, while countering low reviews that cite difficulty, monotony, and boring rulesets as evidence the critics lack skill or self-awareness. The conversation explores Gottlieb System 1 reliability, modern board replacements, and the game's appeal to serious players and operators.

Key Claims

  • Sinbad is ranked #226 on the Pinside Top 100 Solid State Machines list, which is criminally low and should be at least 20 positions higher

    high confidence · Rachel/Kale, opening argument defending the game

  • Sinbad sold 12,000 units, making it the highest-selling solid-state Gottlieb game ever made

    high confidence · Alan providing factual background on the machine

  • Ed Krinsky has more design credits than any other pinball designer in history

    medium confidence · Alan, stated as background fact

  • Gottlieb System 1 machines have unreliable boards and connectors, but modern replacement boards from companies like Neewamp and Pascal can replace the entire system with a single all-in-one board

    high confidence · Rachel/Kale discussing operator maintenance and upgrades

  • Gottlieb System 1 flippers are exceptionally durable hardware ('tanks') and rarely need rebuilding

    high confidence · Rachel/Kale sharing direct operational experience with the machines

  • Top-ranked tournament players from around the world (Mexico, Canada) gravitated to Sinbad after the Starfighters tournament at Electric Bat, indicating the game is respected by skilled players

    high confidence · Rachel/Kale recounting recent tournament aftermath observations

  • Negative Pinside reviews of Sinbad indicate the reviewers lack skill at the game or don't understand its design intent rather than the game being genuinely flawed

    medium confidence · Alan/Rachel/Kale recurring theme throughout review reactions

  • Gottlieb never did code revisions on System 1 games unless they were critical failures, releasing every 6-8 weeks compared to Williams' year-to-18-month development cycles

    medium confidence · Alan citing a John Norris designer interview, near end of episode

  • Gordon Morrison's artwork on Sinbad is among the best pinball art ever created, not just in pinball but as general art

Notable Quotes

  • “Sinbad is a super fun game because of the flipper placement. I love playing it. And I love trying to hit those drops. Those drops are so good and buttery too.”

    Rachel @ ~20:00 — Core defense of the game's mechanics and tactile quality

  • “I think there's a lot of hate for this game because there's a lot of angry middle-aged men that just do not want to accept that they lost the ball between flippers.”

    Kale @ ~22:00 — Frames negative reviews as ego-driven rather than design criticism

  • “You know what? My name is Sinbad. This is Sinbad's house. When you're in Sinbad's house, you're my bitch.”

    Kale (quoting/riffing on a negative review) @ ~56:00 — Humorous deflection of low-effort negative reviews

  • “When they see they come in and they like, how do I get better? How do I get better? I just like any game that hands you your ass is the game you need to be playing.”

    Kale @ ~65:00 — Philosophy on using challenging games as skill-building tools

  • “The good guys all gravitate towards these ass-kicker games. I keep telling people this.”

    Rachel @ ~62:00 — Observation that skilled players prefer difficult games like Sinbad

  • “I don't know. This isn't even really noticeable. Honestly, just a clean and wax and maybe some new rubbers on the flippers is going to make a bigger difference than the rebuild will.”

    Alan @ ~35:00 — Practical maintenance insight on System 1 flipper durability

  • “It's funny how that works. The good guys all gravitate towards these ass-kicker games.”

    Alan @ ~64:00 — Reinforces that top players prefer skill-challenging machines

  • “This game is fun when first played but after a while it got to be monotonous and boring. How can it be both of those things?”

    Kale (analyzing negative review) @ ~31:00 — Points out logical inconsistency in criticism

Entities

SinbadgameAlanpersonAlexpersonRachelpersonKalepersonEd KrinskypersonGordon MorrisonpersonElectric Batcompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Community consensus on Pinside rankings of Sinbad being too low (#226) with hosts/guests attributing low reviews to reviewer skill gaps, ego, and misunderstanding of design intent rather than legitimate design flaws

    high · Repeated theme throughout review reactions where critics are characterized as lacking skill or self-awareness; Rachel notes top tournament players gravitate toward the game

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Discussion of Gottlieb's design philosophy prioritizing operator revenue (short ball times, difficult layouts) over player enjoyment, contrasted with modern manufacturer approaches

    medium · Rio Platense review reference stating Gottlieb design 'means more money for the operator and no pleasure for the player'; Kale responds defending difficulty as intentional design choice

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: System 1 machines historically plagued by unreliable edge connector boards, but modern replacement solutions from Neewamp and Pascal offer all-in-one or modular board replacements that restore functionality

    high · Rachel/Kale discuss edge connector issues as 'rough' and mention Pascal/Neewamp replacing boards; Alan notes these are viable solutions making System 1s viable for operators

  • ?

    product_strategy: Gottlieb shipped System 1 games every 6-8 weeks without code revisions, compared to Williams' year-to-18-month development cycles, creating different quality/depth profiles

    medium · Alan cites John Norris interview about Gottlieb's rapid release schedule and no code revision policy unless game-breaking

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Defenders position Sinbad's difficulty and short ball times as intentional design features that appeal to skilled players and serve as skill-building tools, not flaws

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.100

0:00
You signed your real name? Of course I did. If you believe in something, you sign your name to it. Alright, I'mma tell you right now. I ain't crazy. This is the ground you'll die on. Are you sure? Oh my god, are you serious? Son, people can see you. I don't tell you what to do with your money, don't fucking tell me what to do with mine, okay? I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I will defend myself. He means it, sweetheart. Well, that's because you're an idiot. I will fight and win because I am the most intelligent. You sure about that? You sure about that? I got something I want to say. A lot of you motherfuckers think you know who Teddy Powers is. Well, I'm here today to tell you all you don't know shit. Oh, I give up. You're going to get yourself killed, and this time I won't be able to save you. I make you laugh. I'm a clown. I amuse you. I'm here to fucking amuse you. Come on, don't bullshit me. Go ahead and go, but I'm not going to stop yelling, because then that'll mean I lost the fight. So, please leave a key under the mat. I love y'all very much. Peace out.
1:10
Serenity now! Serenity now! What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine, but this makes no sense.
1:41
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Alan, co-owner of the Portland Pinball Bar, Wedgehead. Joined today in Alex's basement studio, my co-host, the Waterboy. Hey, this is Alex. Today we're going to be doing another Die on this Hill segment where a guest, in this case two guests, get to defend a game that isn't regarded well on the pin side, more or less, right? That's kind of what we do here, right, Alan? A game that has a lower standing amongst the average pinball player, but we have guests that unironically love the game, and they're here to defend its honor. Mm-hmm. And so our guest today, it's Rachel and Kale from Electric Bat in Tempe, Arizona. Rachel, Kale, how are you guys doing? Hey. Fantastic. And what game are you guys going to be defending for us today? Sinbad. Gottlieb Sinbad. 1970. One of our favorite System 1s. Oh. Yes. So Sinbad is a Gottlieb System 1, like Kale said. That's a solid state machine. System 1, probably one of my favorite systems. I love the System 1 games. Or big System 1 guys. Based upon the movie Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger, made by Columbia Pictures. Is it actually? Yes, it is. It was. Columbia Pictures had bought Gottlieb at the point they released this. They did a couple of movie tie-ins. They did Close Encounters for the first time. Should have known. But it currently ranks number 226 on the Pinside Top 100 Solid State Machines of All Time list, which is criminally low. Yeah, should be at least 20 higher. At the very least. It was released in 1978, and it was designed by Ed Krinsky, the man that has more design credits than any other pinball designer in history. Featured art by Gordon Morrison, his frequent collaborator. They made some EM versions and solid-state versions of this game, and the solid-state version sold 12,000 units, making the highest-selling solid-state Gottlieb game that they would ever make. And despite it being a solid-state game, Sinbad still has an old-school chime unit in it, and it also features four flippers that you can scissor and lose the ball between, no slingshot or inlanes, and four banks of drops. And we're just going to give you the floor. We want you to talk about Sinbad, so tell us why it's good. Man, I didn't know all that. Like, now you're really selling it, and the people of the Pinside Ranking System can see how they've really let everyone down by rating it so low. It is such a fun game. I love it. I like having to shoot the drop targets in order. there's a people that don't know it there's a bank of one a bank of two a bank of three and a bank of four and you don't get credit you get a multiplier for each bank that you complete but you don't get credit for the bank of one or the bank of two unless you've shot the bank of one and so forth right you have to do it in order before you get credit for it you catch one of the banks wrong do you have to clear all of them to get back to it no it no it just it won't count until you've cleared the first one in the series it's a lot like countdown i owned a got lead countdown which was a system one same designer same era and it was the same thing that has four separate drop banks but they were all color coded and it was the same thing it was your bonus multiplier and it had to do with you had to clear them in order okay and it's which i think is super fun yeah i like that it's good use of drops yeah but what else what what else you gotta say about so bad I love it for its most fabulous feature, which are the four flippers. I don't know whether you want to call them scissor flippers, inline flippers. Somebody's getting fucked.

medium confidence · Rachel (described as an artist) and Kale praising the art package

  • Difficult games like Sinbad are valuable for player skill development because they expose and force improvement of weak techniques

    medium confidence · Alan/Rachel/Kale discussing player progression philosophy

  • “I think the System 1 is their shining era... I think it's just so good.”

    Alan @ ~72:00 — Alan's assessment of Gottlieb's peak design period

  • “This is the kind of game that's the opposite of that. It's the opposite. I love these games because I love playing these with friends.”

    Alan @ ~16:00 — Emphasizes social/multiplayer appeal vs. solitary grinding

    • Portland Pinball Bar (Wedgehead)
    company
    Gottliebcompany
    Wedgehead Pinball Podcastorganization
    Pinsideorganization
    Neewampcompany
    Pascalcompany
    Keith Elwinperson
    John Norrisperson
    John Trudeauperson
    Starfightersevent
    Bowenperson
    Countdowngame
    Joker Pokergame
    Cleopatragame
    Black Pyramidgame
    Geniegame
    Gladiatorsgame

    high · Multiple references to top tournament players preferring the game; Kale's philosophy that 'any game that hands you your ass is the game you need to be playing'

  • ?

    tournament_signal: Top-ranked tournament players from Mexico, Canada, and US gravitated to Sinbad and other System 1 games (Joker Poker, Black Pyramid) at Electric Bat after-parties following Starfighters tournament

    high · Rachel directly observed tournament player behavior post-Starfighters; described as 'all the top players were playing Sinbad' and similar System 1s

  • ?

    collector_signal: Sinbad sold 12,000 units making it the highest-selling solid-state Gottlieb; hardware components (flippers, drop targets) are durable and well-regarded in collector/operator communities

    high · Alan's factual background on sales numbers; Rachel/Kale's direct experience noting flippers are 'tanks' and rarely need rebuilding

  • ?

    content_signal: 'Die on this Hill' segment format generating community engagement with defenders passionately arguing for underrated machines; format allows nuanced discussion of Pinside review bias

    medium · Episode structure focused entirely on defending Sinbad; hosts systematically address negative reviews with analytical rebuttal

  • ?

    historical_signal: Hosts position Gottlieb's System 1 era (late 1970s) as the manufacturer's 'shining era' with strong design philosophy, contrasted with earlier/later periods

    medium · Alan: 'I think the System 1 is their shining era'; broader discussion of Gottlieb's design evolution across EM, System 1, Premier eras

  • ?

    design_innovation: Sinbad's scissor/inline four-flipper layout (without slingshots or inlanes) is identified as a novel and challenging mechanical innovation that creates skilled play differential

    high · Rachel: 'I love it for its most fabulous feature, which are the four flippers'; extensive discussion of flipper placement strategy and control requirements

  • ?

    artistic_signal: Gordon Morrison's artwork on Sinbad is characterized as among the best pinball art ever created, elevating the game's aesthetic value beyond mechanics

    medium · Rachel (artist) and Kale praising art; CDN Pin Bacon review acknowledges 'some of the most amazing pinball art'; called 'legendary' by Kale

    • 5:12
    This is the ultimate tournament game. I agree. Four flippers on it. It's not a wide body for anyone that hasn't played it, right? No, no. Like I said, the way they get the space is, and they're sort of, like other games like Harlem or Paragon, right? Or some of these other games that you can scissor the flippers. They're not stacked kind of on top of each other. They're stacked like in a line. Yeah, they like roll smooth from one flipper. Yeah, and so like they don't have an in lane. They have like a flipper where an in lane would be and there's no slingshots on the game. So it's a lot of patience and bouncing the ball around and testing your control without being able to trust a trap on the lower flippers at all. very hard to trap on that game without yeah shooting the ball right between the flippers right i always tell people when they first approach it i'm like don't even think about there being four flippers just imagine being two gigantic flippers and if the ball's anywhere near them just flip yes don't try to cradle right and with kale strategy that's how i always beat him there's also a spinner on this game for oh yeah the big fat spinner there is a spinner i will say that that's that's probably a downside of this game is the plastic spinner that i was gonna say the one thing i don't little the one thing i don't love about system ones are those horrible plastic spinners yeah i don't know what that was about you really you get a good you know on the fly rip of that spinner and it like goes around three times and you're like okay and it'll drain down the center like you're saying i saw someone converted theirs to um i think it was on a genie or something it was a different uh got leap converted it to a metal spinner that'd be cool that's what i want to do because we have a genie also i would love to do that to our genie because i think it would make the game better i hadn't thought about doing that until i i just happened to see a post about somebody doing that oh man that's a good idea because that that spinner it would be imagine having a spinner that you could you know put some super lube on and really get it going fully ripped on on a sinbad that would that'd be a blast i've seen some operators where they'll drill a hole in the top of the spinner and they'll fill it with anything like some people will do like solder or like a little sand or glue or whatever and then they'll kind of glue the top or melt the hole that they drilled in so that it's heavier on the bottom so that even though it's still plastic it'll give it you know centripetal force and kind of make it spin a little bit interesting you're sticking some babies in there yeah it's like it's hack stuff but it you know before the before somebody had the great idea was like hey why don't we just put a metal spinner in here you know i want to try that now another reason i like sinbad and we also have uh what other system ones do we have we have a joker poker nice oh great game awesome um and the uh Cleopatra. And the reason I like all these games you can you know if you getting a used one you don even have to worry about the board I mean there are two great companies out there You know you have Neewamp I think they still doing stuff And Pascal which is going to add you know if you want to you know you going to add a skill shot and like a short ball save Yeah. Kind of cool. And yeah, those are all-in-one replacement boards, right? Where it's like you rip everything out and there's just one little board that takes care of all of it. Some are. I think even Pascal makes both. Okay. There's an all-in-one and then there's separate ones. That's pretty cool though. Yeah, because famously people would hate on these for being unreliable, having grounding issues, having bad boards. The connectors. Yeah. Those edge connectors, man. Not to get lost in the sauce with operator talk, but those edge connectors are rough.
    9:06
    They blow on it like a Nintendo cartridge. Yeah. You're just going to do that every time you want to play the game just like a Nintendo cartridge. I think the game's super fun you're not going to hear any arguments from me when you said you wanted to do this game I was like this is my bread and butter like this is part of like what I do all the time which is people are like oh you like Gottlieb System 1's those games are trash I was like you're trash these games are rad these games are so good and so hard like this was I love these old games Ed Krinsky is my favorite designer of all time you know he was at Gottlieb for so long obviously our name Wedgehead is a nod to that. Got Leap single-player games. He designed more games than anyone. I love the solid state, the first series, System 1, because he was still designing games. Gordon was still doing the art packages like they were for the EMs. Yeah, but everything was, now you had deeper rules. Like, you got a solid state version of an EM layout, and I love these games. I had a countdown that I just adored, and Simbad is a super fun game because of the flipper placement. I love playing it. like and i love trying to hit those drops those drops are so good and buttery too like the got leave drop targets are so good especially when you're playing like classic valleys from that era that are like tombstones that don't want to go down and are just kind of crappy even though those games are great like those drop targets are just trash then you play like a got leave and you're like this is this is what's up these are the drops should feel yeah unfortunately not everyone feels the same way which is why you're here to defend this i'm gonna i'm gonna read the other side of the coin here and why it's rated so low. I'm going to start by reading these bad reviews and then we're going to just have your reactions to each one of them. Okay. Okay. Let's go. All right. So Beaver Brewing says, not much fun at all. The four flipper idea is cool for about one ball. Then it got pretty old for me. No thanks. Mr. Ponytail man, I know you. I know you're kind. You're the kind that puts a trash can in front of the mailbox so I have to get out my Sounds like someone who doesn't know how to control the flippers. I think there's a lot of hate for this game because there's a lot of angry middle-aged men that just do not want to accept that they lost the ball between flippers. I mean, this thing is obviously supposed to be a challenge because of that. If you're playing one game, it defeats the whole purpose. You know, you have to, like, you know, make this game do what you want it to do. And that's the real challenge with this. This is like one of the hardest games there is. These are the same people that put like an inch and a half rubber across the outlay. Oh, yeah. For sure. There's some people out there that think pinball should be a 45-minute slog all the time and they should never lose a ball. You know? And the thing is. This is the kind of game that's the opposite of that. It's the opposite. I love these games because I love playing these with friends. And like if I have regulars come into the bar, I love playing. You know, they want to play a game with you. And I was like, let's play an EM. You know, like let's play one of these old solid state games because like we can rip through a couple of them, you know, in a row. Like if we're all playing Godzilla, like, you know, I might as well. I need to be clocked out, you know, like we're done for the day. Like it's like it's a different thing, you know, like and there's just great games from all eras, which is kind of what I want to always highlight with our bar. And you guys do a great job with your lineup there at the bat. The second bad review I got is Photo Pin says the double flippers is a unique and interesting feature. but after a while it becomes more irritating than attractive the game rules are pretty basic knock down targets to multiply bonus the game is fun when first played but after a while it got to be monotonous and boring you know what nobody likes you booster well they're incorrect yeah that's it that's all that's all that was it man i think it's either a very good player or a very bad player because there's nothing about it that is i would i would love to like go through and read the rest of their reviews yeah like how old are these do they like learn more as they go along yeah that's inside is a uh interesting swamp land of interesting arcane information the disappointing part is nobody ever learns nobody ever gets better on there they'll just carry this through they'll just be like the game's too hard it's monotonous and boring and you're like how can it be both of those things like i don't get it right and like yeah like rachel was saying it's like are you like an incredible player that's just having like is this just a cakewalk i would love to see even the best players in the world consistently kick that game's ass like that game is a challenge there's no way what i love about these games especially drop target games and in particular gottlieb drop target games is create so many shots in so many different angles like on modern games they're all you know you have your shots and they're in like lanes like in a fan shape or you know they somewhat modify it's like but like you could have games you're playing eight ball deluxe there's like what how many targets are there seven targets in a row or and then you have the inline drop all those shots are different shots they're different on the flipper right like you get so much variety that's why you're seeing monotonous and boring i'm like yeah i'm sure you never did well on this game like i'm sure you never got close you know to putting up a really good score this sounds like this email i got a few weeks ago i may have talked about it on the podcast but this guy emailed us saying do you guys have a jaws yet and i wrote back like no it hasn't been this was before it came out it's not available yet and then he wrote me back again and said okay i was just wondering what do you think about it looks like it's gonna suck oh i know we got that too people that just want to hate it i mean i wrote back saying like well i mean i haven't played it yet but i trust keith elwynn is gonna make a damn good game and then now he keeps writing back he wrote me like two or three days ago do you have your jaws yet like this guy you're so quick dude the jaws is living rent free and you're like why do you care you know you know it's gonna suck buddy just like wait for the next one oh it is so funny i can't wait to come play this horrible game that i don't know anything about and that's just them coping they want to like own it in their house and they don't have the space or the money or whatever they're trying to find a reason to just be like i don't need this right like in aiders man all right so the next one i got is cdn pin bacon says nice looking but really boring i miss the art more than the gameplay okay so he's 100 right with half of that this has some of the most amazing pinball art not just pinball art art we talk about rachel rachel is an artist and and we'll we'll sit there and look at it and go this is just amazing yeah this bad glass this this is a plus some of the best pinball artwork that has ever touched a machine yeah gordon morrison fucking legend like yeah yeah so it's like i'm glad he got that right i mean nobody's looking at that game and going this thing's ugly i mean at least i would hope not i mean let's do like if you really hate orange yeah i guess that's true yeah that could be yeah yeah ehex9 says this game is fun for a couple rounds but becomes old quickly the shots are not very well laid out and clunky game art is cool the cabinet suffers from the 70s bad color schemes you are no different than the rest of those civilians those common letter writers who make fun of my knee socks and my safari hat in the summer. Whoa. Wow. Whoa. That's a badly laid out and clunky I would like to fight this person in a public square You know it funny Earlier today I was watching the Papa video with Bowen of him playing this game And I mean, it's just like Drano, Drano. He's like, well, you know, you don't have like a long ball in this game, but you'll get the picture. I mean, that's Bowen doing that. Yeah. But I can also imagine a situation if someone's playing it on location and the flippers are not lined up correctly. where this game could be aggravating if you're getting weird like bouncing or if it's not laid out you know adjusted correctly and those flippers are amazing i don't think i've had to rebuild them no those things are tanks we purchased them those things are tanks dude those those those got leap system one flippers are tanks like everything on the got leap system ones is like the hardware is all hardware is tanks yes yeah i don't know i really want to get a system one at some point No, they're the best. Oh, that's right, because you have to put those in the vice to remove the roll pin. Yes.
    17:42
    Anytime you need a vice for working on a pinball machine part, you know you're in business. I had forgotten about that. I have rebuilt some of those flippers, but I just, yeah, you get to the point where you're like, man, this isn't even really noticeable. Honestly, just a clean and wax and maybe some new rubbers on the flippers is going to make a bigger difference than the rebuild will. And that's not the case for most manufacturers and games. Right. Next one's from Emo, which is a good username on Pinside. And Emo says, An attractive and colorful game. The rules are easy to understand. Although I'm normally keen on drop target games, this one demands too many unavoidable risky shots. This detracts from the skill of the game. Either that, or I can't play it properly. No, no, no. You can't tell me nothing, all right? See, I'm 35, you're 12. You don't know anything. What you need to do is go in your bedroom and think about what you're going to do with your life. And start practicing phrases. You want paper or plastic?
    18:35
    It's the latter. Yes. I think that one's good because it's self-aware. That's why I was cracking it down. It's knocking on the door of self-awareness. Yeah, he's like, you know, I normally like these, but this one's a little too hard. Maybe it is me. This has been the only comment that I want to hang out with. This person gets it. Yep, that's where I was at. I want to play Bond 60th with this person. Yeah, right. This detracts from the skill of the game. That's the only one. No, it means you're more skilled, man. that's that's what pinball is making you take risky shots oh this next one's good too can i read this one sure mario argentino says cheap crap a waste like most got leaves from that period you feel lucky if you can play it for more than 10 seconds of all do you want some excitement go and look for a countdown or pinball pool instead you're about to get me jacked up man what you trying to do shut up now poke your ass see this this one you this one around turn i don't buff y'all watch your ass new meat whoa so so then he he dogs on got leaves but then he mentions two other system ones yeah those are good yeah i'm like okay well yeah by the same designer same company dude i mean like and if you're like if if this game's a 10 or 15 second ball what's he think of countdown is he just killing it on countdown because i'd say countdown pretty hard too yeah i don't this is weird that's weird sinbad is dope dude sinbad is sinbad is one of the great system one games i don't know what he's talking about i don't know because game room guru says sinbad how about just bad yo come out look out what the hell yeah you in hell all right You know what? My name is Sinbad. This is Sinbad's house. When you're in Sinbad's house, you're my bitch. Oh, got him.
    20:28
    Those are always my favorites. I like that one. That's how you abbreviate it. It's just bad. Every time we do one of these episodes, there's always one guy somewhere that did something like that. I don't recognize that game room guru. Because I was like, I wonder if it's the same guy just throwing shitty puns on every game he doesn't like. It's different people all coming up with the same joke. Yeah, no fear, no fun. Yeah. Bad cats, bad game. Yeah. It's always funny. You're like.
    21:04
    Build Now says, better than not playing at all, I guess. Just a sick world we're living in. Sick people. That was the review. So was it. I guess. That's a good one. Well, it's true. Yeah, that's true. That's like my feelings on Popeye, maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Popeye might be, I'd rather not play. I'd rather not. But Cale's going to check it out, and he'll let us know. Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Man, I used to have to play it in the league. Who had one? Bruce had one. Really? Probably still does. Maybe I can take you over to his house, and you can enjoy this. He does seem like a guy that would want a Popeye. Yeah. You could get your kicks at Bruce's house and play some Popeye. Hey, everybody, let's all go to Bruce's. All right, so Rio Platense says, What can I say? I'm ashamed to have spent some money in this thing, even if it was when I was a small kid. All right, just stay there.
    21:59
    And I'll know if you move, because I have the ear of a snake. Like most Gottliebs of this era, it fits exactly in what seemed to be their internal design and manufacturing rules philosophy, meaning enormous gap between the flippers, full of nasty design surprises for the player, the bad kind that leads you to lose interest quickly with boring short games etc which means more money for the operator and no pleasure for the player and i know what i'm talking about because i went to junior college for a semester and i studied psychology so i'm right in there i know what's going on the dis oh wow the disappearing of gottlieb as a pinball manufacturer is plain justice in all capital letters oh man you're gonna punk him like that no no no No, matter of fact, unleash the fury. Get his shoe. What? Beat his testicles. Don't beat. Don't. Come on, Rob Thompson's sin bad. For years, they didn't realize that players want to play in all capital letters. I don't mean winning credits. Just play. Have fun. And this, in most 70s and some 80s Gottliebs, is simply impossible. Only they would have just listened to the great Harry Williams. Dot, dot, dot. Wow. The electric bat house of sadism. Whoa. I just don't know what's going on. It's the pain, my bad, I didn't know you was hurting like that, my bad, cuz I've hurt before, you've hurt before, we all hurt. So I'm gonna just break it down, and I introduce myself right, that was wrong. I'm gonna send Matt to my head shop, I'll autograph for you a little later on. And this is send Matt's house, and you my bitch. And I'm gonna show you how to do it. Everything okay here? Hey, what's up Jerome, what are you doing? Man, he keep throwing his shoes crazy. Okay, well, let's go, everybody should be in bed with the lights on. I'm trying to go so he can throw shoes at us. so do you guys have you guys have sinbad there just to steal quarters right that's why you guys are getting rich you guys are getting rich operating sinbad it's a big joke to you the funny thing was uh recently uh what was it like last weekend the the star fighters pinball tournament was was in town here and so we had a lot of like highly ranked players from all over the country came. Actually, some from all over the world. Mexico and Canada. And we noticed that after the Starfighters tournament, you know, the after party would be at the Electric Bat. All the top players were playing Sinbad. Yeah. And Bond 60th. Yeah. And like Joker Poker. Or like Black Pyramid. Black Pyramid, yeah. Oh, George Christian game. I like that game. Dude, it's funny how that works. The good guys all gravitate towards these ass-kicker games. I keep telling people this I keep telling new players this When they see they come in and they like how do I get better How do I get better I just like any game that hands you your ass is the game you need to be playing Because whatever it is that deficient in your play that game exploiting And if you play that game more you going to learn how to adjust to it And then you could take that to other games And I think it not even like playing them in like a Mr miyagi like training way like painful thing it like once you play them for a bit you realize like this is fun everything else is boring compared to like the short playing games not always but you know it's like it's like i like a mix of both i think there's some there's something especially when you're playing with other players and you're playing with players of high skill levels you know because that's when you're like all right well let's let's turn up the brutality on the machines have more fun because we're at this level it's like you just get into slog fest on on some of the newer games you know at high level players so yeah it's fun to just session some of these games i think simbad's a great game for that i don't know i agree so it was justice that got leave went out of business after they put this thing easy dude i think it's funny it's like it wasn't you know water world or shack attack or anything he's like no simbad fuck them they deserved to fail they were still company for like another 15 years like you know i don't know like they made a lot of worse games than this 100 they made way worse games than this i think i think the system one is their shining era yeah that's what i would say and it's just it's funny though not everybody sees it that way yeah it's like their em supremacy was their era and then this system one i think it's just so good it's just they're so good we keep realizing though that every era of gottlieb has some gems in it to some degree some of them yeah i'm like i like some of the john norris games yeah john norris was so what what's your favorite premiere game my favorite well i own a premier game i own a i own a gottlieb rock that used to belong to my uncle when i was a little kid and so that's a john trudeau single level game it's really simple but i actually enjoy it despite it it's fun it's very fun actually it's a little hurry up on it there's like a yeah play feel multiplier so that's fun i think it's the first game that david the old did a sound package i'm trying to think of the premieres do the dmd ones still count as premieres those don't really say premiere is big on them i don't know is it on there at all i don't think the font size is what determines like do you want like a system 80 or one of those like the dmds because i was like the system 80s i'd probably i really like genesis but that's also one that i just have a lot of time on yeah Genesis is fun. Genesis is cool. It's just like a good Trudeau game. I like that there's ramps that don't go anywhere. I always think that's funny. Alex loves ramps that don't return to flippers. Like that's just like big design. I like shooting a ramp, but I also like fighting for ball control. So it's like, if you give me a ramp that just dead ends, I think it's a hilarious. Cause it ruins like the feeling, which is just funny, but B I just like fighting for ball control. So it's a good one. This is a homemade explosive device. No, why? Cause I work for the post office. so you know i'm not stable tell them but uh as far as like the dmd ones i really i don't know what were we gladiators that's my go-to oh gladiators is sick gladiators play gladiators man at shows but i've never owned one or really put any time on it that would be the one i would actually consider super fun i would say that you guys run a lot of tournaments it's probably not a great tournament game there is one thing to do over and over and it's very exploitable they can make one little patch that game the layout is so cool and the music's cool and the art's really cool and yeah there's a lot of those games i i listened to john norris who was a designer that worked for them during that era i listened to a really old interview he did and he talked about how you know other companies had you know six months williams had a year year and a half to make a game they were making games every six to eight weeks and so and unlike the other companies unless the game was going to set itself on fire they never ever ever did a code revision so like they would put it out on test they'd find these exploits but they would never patch them you know or they would never put a new rom in unlike what williams would do you know and even data east would do and so you get a lot of these got leap games that and they have really cool play fields when you get into that later system three where they have the pointy flippers they have the worst flippers ever well you want to replace those you know you can put different bats on if you want die on this little bonus round what are your guys's favorite premieres man i you got the only well the only premiere i ever owned was nightmare on elm street oh which is not good at all no it's not good at all if anyone's listening and wants to defend nightmare on elm street i would love to have you on the show because that would be a perfect die on this hill game yeah yeah and so I was one and done on premieres. And then they sit there and make a kid feel like garbage. And you, the father who's working 24-7 delivering mail so you can make an alimony payment to a woman that slept with everybody at the post office but me. Mark Mandeltort of Marco Specialties, he gave me a Hollywood Heat and I loved it so much that I left it in South Carolina. you gotta write that as a inside review pill so if anyone ever wants to defend it i could read that out on the show the game's so good i left it like yeah 2,500 miles away poor hollywood heat there's actually there's an early 90s game that i'll just say it and then i'll cut it out in editing it's like i want to do he better shut up is a game that I like a lot and it's very very poorly rated nobody likes that game for a reason that game's not good oh it's good it's fun there just aren't really any around town even like we don't even we don't come across them so I haven't had an opportunity to play many of them well it's interesting because the premiere is like on top of the problematic code and a lot of like bad themes and and like kind of half cook the layouts on a lot of them they're also all unreliable so it's also unreliable yeah you're like sweet on top of it being pretty objectively you know maybe not the best games they're also all unreliable so it's like you got to be crazy to operate i will say we do have a big hurt frank thomas big hurt 90s dmd gottlieb and uh it does well with casual players like they put money into it you could play it forever it's sort of like a jersey jackets like multi-ball multi-ball multi-ball it's a good time it's hard to keep running but it's a good time but yeah i think we had a good discussion about sinbad and sinbad leading into premieres i think the last um well it's because that last review there's so much to unpack in that one that was a dense one i mean that that might be the craziest bad review we've read on this show thus far i want to see if we can ever top that one i mean he's basically like this game's so bad with no redeeming qualities, them going out of business was justice. And that's just an insane statement. But yeah, I want to thank Rachel and Kale for joining us again on another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. It was lovely to have you both. And we hope to talk to you soon. If anyone's listening to this show and you have access to a Sinbad, or if you live in the Phoenix area, you should go play it on location at the Electric Bat and come to your own conclusions. played a lot run some tokens through it go play a hollywood heat 2 kale's favorite game yeah it's there's one in south carolina somewhere rotting away in a storage unit but for everyone listening thank you we appreciate your listenership if you want to be a guest on the show or have a die on this hill game yourself send me an email at wedgeheadinfo at gmail.com and we'll work something out in the future for everyone else listening thank you all once again Good luck. Don't suck.
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    Thanks for watching!