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Episode 120 – Ryan and Marty

Head2Head Pinball·podcast_episode·1h 21m·held·Dec 9, 2019
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Rick and Rick and Morty (SE) pinball announced; community divided; design details and speculation explored.

Summary

Ryan and Martin discuss the announcement of Rick and Morty as a Spooky Pinball title designed by Scott Denise with voice work by Justin Roiland. They explore community reaction divided between fans and detractors of the theme, detail known specs (750-unit limit, Morty card adventure system, potential non-standard flipper layout, portal mechanics), and speculate on unreleased mechanical features while addressing Pinside discussion dynamics.

Key Claims

  • Rick and Morty is confirmed as a Spooky Pinball machine designed by Scott Danesi

    high confidence · Ryan and Martin discussing the official announcement; trailer released by Spooky

  • Production is limited to exactly 750 units total (not 750 LEs plus additional units)

    high confidence · Martin states he reached out to someone at Spooky who confirmed, and Charlie from Spooky stated on Pinside that only 750 will be made

  • Spooky Fan Club members get a 2-week pre-order window and can upgrade to 'Bloodsucker Edition' for $500 extra

    high confidence · Martin explains the exclusive fan club offering and notes Spooky's self-aware marketing ('BS Edition')

  • The game features Justin Roiland (voice of Rick and Morty) doing custom voice work and callouts

    high confidence · Ryan and Martin discuss voice talent; Ryan mentions Roiland is a creative genius who will likely add comedy to the script

  • Scott Danesi is handling music/audio design in addition to playfield design

    high confidence · Martin notes 'Custom Sound by Scott Danesi' in the trailer announcement

  • The game uses a Morty Card adventure system for mode selection/progression

    high confidence · Ryan identifies a '2X insert' and 'Morty A' imagery in the brief playfield screenshot, theorizing Morty stamps/multiplier system similar to Dialed In!!

  • The playfield may not use a standard Italian bottom (symmetrical flipper layout)

    medium confidence · Ryan and Martin speculate about non-standard flipper/inlane/slingshot configuration based on hints; Ryan suggests pop bumper may replace left slingshot

  • Portal mechanics may involve a rising/slamming ramp or physical portal representation on the playfield

    low confidence · Ryan speculates about stage-like mechanics inspired by Jurassic Park or No Good Gofers; acknowledges uncertainty ('totally fucking wrong')

Notable Quotes

  • “This is the war now. It's actually between those that get it and those that don't.”

    Martin @ ~6:00 — Identifies the core community division over Rick and Morty theme; shifts blame from manufacturer/designer criticism to fan-on-fan gatekeeping

  • “It's one of those ones where I'm just looking forward to hearing that theme song, which is just so iconic.”

    Martin @ ~13:30 — Highlights the iconic Rick and Morty theme as a major appeal factor for the machine

  • “I am like 99% sure I will get one. And I hate the fact that I'm saying that.”

    Ryan @ ~24:00 — Ryan committing to a sight-unseen purchase despite his stated philosophy; demonstrates extreme confidence in the title and FOMO dynamics

  • “If we were going to do more than 750, we'd do a brand new Rick and Morty machine.”

    Charlie/Spooky (reported by Martin) @ ~21:30 — Official Spooky statement clarifying hard production cap; addresses community speculation about additional units

  • “Spooky Pinball machine is pretty different... he likes doing unique things or plays on unique things.”

    Ryan @ ~35:00 — Sets expectations for Scott Denese's design philosophy applied to Rick and Morty; references his history with TNA innovations

  • “Wouldn't it be cool if you can somehow activate a slam ramp kind of thing?... you shoot the ball, it goes into, I don't know, something like a massive hole.”

    Ryan @ ~49:00 — Speculative gameplay mechanic tied to portal theme; Ryan acknowledges uncertainty but explores design possibilities

  • “I'm going to 3D print some fucking little portal gun gadgets to blue tack on my playfair. I'm going to raise the value.”

    Ryan @ ~53:00 — Humorous but illustrative of collector enthusiasm and willingness to customize; shows secondary market confidence

  • “I click on the Rick and Morty thread and there's like 600 new posts and I'm just sitting there and after like 30 minutes, I was like, I fucking hate my life.”

Entities

Spooky PinballcompanyRick and MortygameScott DanesipersonJustin RoilandpersonBowen KerinspersonMartinperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Rick and Morty confirmed as Spooky Pinball title via trailer; full reveal expected around Christmas 2020

    high · Martin: 'It's been announced. We mentioned last week that the license has been approved... It's spooky.' Charlie from Spooky confirmed timeline on Pinside.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Spooky employing hard 750-unit production cap for entire Rick and Morty run; no additional variants beyond fan club edition tier

    high · Martin confirmed via Spooky contact; Charlie posted: 'we're only doing 750, guys. We would never do anything more than that.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Community split between Rick and Morty fans (rabid enthusiasts) vs. detractors (primarily older demographics); conflict now fan-on-fan rather than anti-manufacturer

    high · Martin: 'people that don't like the theme are now bagging out the people that do like the theme. This is the war now.'

  • ?

    collector_signal: High confidence that Rick and Morty will sell out quickly; secondary market pricing expected to hold/exceed retail due to 750-unit constraint and rabid fanbase

    high · Ryan: 'I honestly think this will sell out immediately.' Martin: 'if you buy it, you'll sell it and get your money back, if not more.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Speculation that playfield features portal-themed mechanical innovation; potential rising/slamming ramp or instant ball-out scoop mechanic mimicking multiverse travel

    low · Ryan theorizes portal representation using stage mechanics or Denese-style instant ball returns; explicitly uncertain: 'totally fucking wrong'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.245

0:00
Music Welcome, everybody, to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 120. My name's Martin, and with me... Oh, geez, Rick, it's Morty. It's Ryan. How are you going? It's Ryan C. I'm back. That was... Oh, my God. All of a sudden, I thought I was listening to Morty from Rick and Morty because the voice was so uncanny. Well, you can hear my voice work on the critically acclaimed American pinball machine, Houdini, and you'll see from that how amazing I am and why I'm in high demand for voice work. Amazing.
1:08
So, Ryan, you're back on the show. What's been happening? Well, if we're talking about Rick and Morty today, then I have to... I don't think I'm a massive Rick and Morty fan, but I'm as excited as I could be about a Pimball machine currently. So I begged you, I've got a bruised chin, I've been down on my knees, I'm on the show, let's make it happen.
1:31
Okay, so we're going to talk about Rick and Morty and it's going to be... there's a lot to cover. However, the first thing is it's been announced. We mentioned last week that the license has been approved. We thought it was going to be spooky. It's spooky. Well done. Insert crowd cheering. The interesting thing that I've noticed about the, let's call it some fallout that's happened with it because, of course, it's a theme and everyone's going to be divided because it's not what they want. But what's been really interesting that I've noted, and I'll narrow this down to Pinside, the back and forth, is there's the side of people that have watched Rick and Morty and love it.
2:18
Then there's the people that have never watched it. Then there's people in the middle that watched clips of it.

Spooky can manufacture approximately 500 machines per year

medium confidence · Ryan cites production capacity; suggests 500 units in 2020 and 250 in first half of 2021

  • Full game reveal expected around Christmas 2020

    medium confidence · Martin states 'I think around Christmas time is what I've got in my head' based on Pinside post about timing being controlled by Adult Swim

    • Martin @ ~56:00 — Commentary on Pinside forum fatigue and circular debate dynamics; reflects broader community frustration with theme divisiveness

  • “With Rick and Morty, I think there's two layers. At one total end of the spectrum, there's just this insane, it's just stupid and crass... On the other end, it's extremely deep.”

    Ryan @ ~9:30 — Defends Rick and Morty's appeal to both casual and analytical audiences; frames criticism as incomplete engagement with the material

  • “Scott Danesi has upped it a level, right, where you want the ball returning. You don't want the ball traveling through subways... To have one ball go through one area and then another ball pop out immediately, it gives the illusion that the ball, it's kind of like pinball magic.”

    Ryan @ ~46:30 — Articulates Scott Denese's design philosophy emphasizing instant feedback and 'pinball magic' over animation/travel time

    • Ryan C.
    person
    Charlieperson
    Adult Swimcompany
    David Van Esperson
    Eric Priepkeperson
    Alice Coopergame
    TNA (Total Nuclear Annihilation)game
    Pinsideorganization
    Iron Maidengame
    Deadpoolgame
    Ghostbustersgame
    Dialed In!game
    Metallicagame
    Star Trekgame
    No Good Gofersgame
    GoldenEyegame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Predatorgame
  • ?

    design_innovation: Rumors suggest Rick and Morty may deviate from standard Italian bottom flipper configuration; pop bumper may replace left slingshot

    medium · Ryan identifies blurred playfield element he believes is pop bumper; speculates about non-standard inlane/slingshot arrangement

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Rick and Morty expected to begin production before end of 2020; 500 units in 2020, remaining 250 in first half of 2021 based on 500/year capacity

    medium · Ryan: 'I've heard rumblings that this may be on the line before the end of the year... 500 would be made in 2020 and the other 250 kind of the first half of 2021'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Scott Denese emphasizes instant ball returns and minimal animation delays; Rick and Morty expected to feature portal mechanics implementing 'pinball magic' via fast ball cycling

    high · Ryan: 'Scott D'Anissi has upped it a level... you want the ball returning... it gives the illusion that the ball... it's kind of like pinball magic.'

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Adult Swim retains control over Rick and Morty game reveal timing; Spooky announcement controlled by licensor approval schedule

    high · Charlie on Pinside: 'we are working with Adult Swim... and it'll be soon, but it's not up to them.' Reveal timeline tied to licensor coordination.

  • $

    market_signal: Limited Australian distribution expected (~100 units from 750 total); machines will be primarily collector-owned and unavailable for public play

    medium · Martin: 'if there's 750, let's say, I don't know, 100 of them come to Australia maybe, they're just going to be people's collections.'

  • ?

    content_signal: Head2Head Pinball leveraging insider knowledge and speculation to drive engagement; format includes restricted information (Ryan hints at knowledge he can't share)

    high · Ryan: 'Maybe if you don't want the surprise spoiled... I might be totally wrong. Just skip forward like 10 minutes or something.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community narrative shifting from 'Spooky made wrong choice' to 'you don't understand Rick and Morty'; suggests themes require cultural literacy, not manufacturing credibility

    medium · Ryan frames Rick and Morty as having depth requiring deeper engagement; Martin notes Spooky's reputation unscathed despite theme division

    • 2:26
    And what I really find in the past when people sort of get a theme and they, oh, you know, they hate the designer or they hate the company. Spooky, everyone still loves Spooky. What's really happened now is that people that don't like the theme are now bagging out the people that do like the theme. This is the war now. It's actually between those that get it and those that don't. And it's just this fucking war. I mean, seriously. I know. I'm probably a bit of a hypocrite because when a theme comes out that I don't like, sometimes I like to let it be known that I don't like it. And maybe it's just because I want machines that I like because I'm a pinball enthusiast. I buy pinball machines. If I let them know that, hey, Munsters means nothing to me and I buy pinball machines, maybe it'll mean something. But that's okay. That's okay for you to say, Munsters isn't for me and I think it's a shit license. The difference here is people are saying, you're shit because you like Munsters. Yeah, no, I've never thought that way personally, but I don't know. The people that don't like Rick and Morty, I'm assuming they're boomers. Hey, boomers. Not all of them. I'm generalizing here, but don't you have enough Pimball machines, like 90% of Pimball machines dedicated towards you? Can't we have a 10% money? Well, exactly. And I'm not a millennial. We all know that. I am Gen X, probably right smack bang in the middle of Gen X. And I think Rick and Morty is hilarious. This is what I'll say to people. You will either get it or you won't. I don't think there's any sort of area in the middle. But also, this is what I'll say to you. I watched the first episode of Rick and Morty and just thought it was stupid. I thought I didn't get it. I thought the humor was really simplistic and dumb.
    4:27
    And crass and unnecessary. By the third episode, I realized because it's dumb and it's crass and it's all those things, that is actually what is interesting and funny about the show. It's actually deeper than you think it is. And I'm just kind of going to say that if you don't get it, I don't think you're looking deep enough into it. Is that saying too much about it? No, no. Okay. I know some people that have watched two or three seasons and still don't like it. And that's okay. People like different things. But you're right. We talk about layers of the onion encoding. With Rick and Morty, I think there's two layers. At one total end of the spectrum, there's just this insane, it's just stupid and crass what you're talking about. On the other end, it's extremely deep. Not like BoJack. Have you watched BoJack Horseman? That shit is too deep for me. That was just like, it got too much. I'm like, I don't want to be depressed watching this fucking shit anymore. But yeah, it's, I like it. It makes me laugh. What makes me laugh, I think, the most are just the voices. Have you ever watched, Marty, this is a little bit sidetracked. Have you ever watched that court case that someone did in like the Rick and Morty voices? It was a court case. Okay, do you know how in the US, I'm not sure if they do this in Australia, when they have like court cases, someone sits there and has to type everything out. The entire, yes, because they can't like video record it or whatever. So someone's job to write it down. There was this insane conversation between this guy who was accused of like murdering someone or something and a judge. And it just got really heated and it was like a 20 minute conversation. and somehow the creators of Rick and Morty got a hold of this and they did the voices for it. Like Morty was the judge and Rick was the murderer guy. I can't believe you haven't seen it. I have actually seen it. I just did a quick YouTube search and as soon as I saw it I went, I have, but obviously a long time ago. I think it came out a couple of years ago. Yeah, it was a couple of years ago. And also, I think I told you, so there's actually a game on VR. So I've got it on my PlayStation VR called Accounting Plus and the voices in this are Justin Roiland, I think his name is. And it's just like Rick and Morty in your head. It's really crazy. So the voices are everything. It's the family dynamic. It's all these different adventures they go to through the multiverse. So it's all about multi-dimensions, it's about time travel, it's about mutant and the impacts of all that kind of stuff. And really what it is, it's one of those ones where just on the surface it looks like a bit of fun, but it's poking fun at us as human society right now. Yeah, of heist movies, the last episode about heist movies, I was like, how can I watch a heist movie again after seeing Rick and Morty? They made it so clear that every heist movie is exactly the same. I'm not sure if you've seen the episode, Marty. Go ahead. Yeah. So, I mean, even the trailer, it was announced via a trailer that Spooky posted.
    7:44
    And what did we learn from the trailer, Marty? We learned that it's got its own custom art, and they showed little bits of the art flashing on the screen. There was a very, very short flash of a portion of the play field, which we will talk about in a second. What else we got? We got Custom Sound by Scott Denisi. This is a Scott Denisi design playfield. Yes, this is not a haunted house party, everybody. Yes. And I've heard that he's also, well, he mentioned that he's been doing the music for it as well. So I'm guessing this is going to be a Scott Denisi take on the Rick and Morty theme and the music inside that world. Yes, and the music is awesome anyway. Yes, yes. So I'm looking for, again, it's one of those ones where I'm just looking forward to hearing that theme song, which is just so iconic. And the cool thing as well is the guy, the guys who do the voices for the show are doing voices for the pinball machine. And when was the, I don't want to say when was the last time it happened, like it has, I mean, like Alice Cooper did it for Alice Cooper.
    8:48
    You know, everyone has differing opinions on that. But I don't know. Everyone cherishes Family Guy as being like, you know, and I guess maybe Simpsons as well as the two pins. And this is in the same vein, I think, where it's just going to be amazing to have all of those call outs ready and available and someone who actually wants to do it. Well, somebody that will actually, yeah. So not only that somebody that wants to do it, but I think also somebody that I think will probably add to the script rather than, well, you talked about before, you know, Houdini. You know, we were effectively given a script on what to say. I did ad lib a couple of things, but effectively it was to the script because, you know, I don't know what else to do. Just give me the script. I think Justin Roiland, who's doing the voices, I reckon he could add comedy and humor and new stuff to Spinball Machine because I think that's what he would want to do. Yeah, I'm not sure if he'd ever listen to his podcast. It's not for everybody. I probably couldn't handle it after a little while listening to it. But, I mean, this guy can talk about anything just off the cusp, just like that. And he's a creative genius as well. Anyway, let's talk about the Pinball machine, Marty. What do we know? We know that Scott... I don't know. Are you asking me a question or are you answering your own question? Well, okay. Scott Dinesi, right? So, Scott Dinesi created... This is his second Pinball machine, but it's almost like his first, right? Because he created TNA for himself. Himself. He didn't say, I'm going to make a Pinball machine everyone's going to love. Of everyone just having to like the thing that he made for himself. Okay, so, you know, like, what's his name? Eric Meunier, like, on Pirates of the Caribbean, he shoved so much crap into it because he just had, like, so much, so many ideas. So what will we see from Scott Denisi? Will we see a Pimball machine jam-packed full of stuff because Scott's had ideas for years on what to make? Or, you know, will it be simplistic? Will it be a flow Pimball machine? What are your thoughts, Maddie? Oh, well, I think it's what everybody's really – I think it's not going to be single level. My understanding is there's going to be a couple of ramps in there, and I understand that there's going to be some unique mech or device of some kind.
    11:03
    And I know that there's a lot of talk about – I mean, obviously, everyone's speculating, and we're going to know. A couple of things before we start going into that as well. It is limited to 750 machines and because it said, I think it sort of said 750 limited edition and people were like, oh, well, is that just the LEs? Are they going to make more? God, literally a thousand posts on Pinside where people are giving this and I just wanted to crush my computer when I was listening and reading it. Well, I actually reached out to somebody that works at Spooky and they said, no, it is definitely 750, that is it. And then I think Charlie came back out or someone from Spooky Camp and said, we're only doing 750, guys. We would never do anything more than that. In fact, if we were going to do more than 750, we'd do a brand new Rick and Morty machine. Yeah, this is exactly what it is. So there's 750 units, full stop. There's one addition they're making in terms of the playfield layout and the software, right? So nobody's going to get a unique experience. If you're part of the Spooky Fang Club, which is their Fang Club, you will get two things. You will get a two-week window before the public to order and option it up, okay? And if you option it up, it becomes a Bloodsucker Edition, the BS Edition. It's their joke, like it's bullshit because we're fleecing you for an extra $500, okay? So they're self-aware, okay? Okay, only people that are part of the fan club get to get the exclusive trim upgrades. That doesn't necessarily make it a limited edition, but it kind of does. Makes it a bit unique-ish. Yes. It doesn't mean that those are separate and they'll make another $750 on top of that. It's $750 full stop. So if they sell $750 within those two weeks, that's it. And if everyone options them up, then that's it. They're all LEs.
    13:05
    Yeah, so the demand for this machine, I don't know. I mean, Alice Cooper took a while to sell out at 500 units. What do you think about this at 750? I think it's a more relevant license. It's going to sell out. I honestly think this will sell out immediately. And also because Rick and Morty fans, right, we've said before, those people that get it, those people that don't. People that get Rick and Morty are rabid fanboys about Rick and Morty. And there's merch all over the place. This is the kind of stuff, there's only 750 of them that I think fans of outside of pinball will also want. Well, yeah, I'm not sure if they're going to be able to get their hands on one. I don't think this has, I guess, reached mainstream yet, probably because the pin hasn't been revealed. It's just a trailer, and unless people can see it, they're not going to get excited about it if they're not pinball fans.
    14:05
    Spooky can make 500 games a year, they've said. I've heard rumblings that this may be on the line before the end of the year. We know that Spooky takes a while to ramp up, but that would mean that 500 would be made in 2020 and the other 250 kind of the first half of 2021, which is a long way away. If you are in Australia or New Zealand or another country, I don't think the number that you order matters too much because they group them all together. So you could be number one or the last person. They're not going to send them individually. Usually they kind of choose somewhere in the middle to send them all.
    14:46
    I am like 99% sure I will get one. And I hate the fact that I'm saying that. I know. So that's what I was going to bring up. Because I saw your post and it was along the lines of, I'm paraphrasing here, but I am now one of those people that's going to buy a machine site unseen. Yeah. So my question to you, Ryan, is who are you? What have you become? I think I just didn't think it was this close to being made. And I had a very funny conversation with Bowen Kierens when he was here. If you remember, we had him down for the Brisbane Masters and then I flew him down to Melbourne and we had this amazingly cool one night with Bowen night in Melbourne. Woke up the next day, had to drive him to the airport, but we hung out a little bit. I wanted to show him the little bit of Melbourne that I could. And while I was in the car, I was chatting to him and he was like, you know, dream themes Ryan, go. And I was like, well, my dream themes were, you know, Ghostbusters. And I didn't even buy Ghostbusters when I saw it, you know, with the art and everything because I'm not impressed by art, just like Robert Mueller from Deadpool.
    15:57
    And yeah, it kills me that, you know, Pimball machines can sell just on art. But I said, right now, Rick and Morty makes me laugh so much. And I think about the theme integration of what you can do with portals and everywhere they go. The whole portal thing, it just means that they don't need to create this insane script to go anywhere. They can just go bam and they can be anywhere. They can make up any bullshit story, right? So wouldn't that be cool in a pinball machine where you can change the theme and the music and everything by, you know, like hitting a scoop or going to a portal? And then I started to quiz like, oh, tell me some Rick and Morty quotes and like your favorite quotes or something. And I started spitting out some quotes and Bowen was like, ah, that's from season two episode blah titled this. I'm like, oh, fuck, Bowen's a massive Rick and Morty fan. And then I'm like, I'm like, what else? And then I said something else and I was like, oh, shit. And it didn't click at all because I'm just like, there's no way Spooky is going to get Rick and Morty. It'd be, you know, like, you know, the whole Godzilla thing, you know, like I know Godzilla means the world. I don't know what word you do, but I'm kind of proud of you. I get it. I mean, I bought a number of machines now sight unseen. And welcome to the club, I guess. So it just took that one theme. But also, it's not just, I don't think it's just a theme. I think it's also that you know, with 750, the chances of you seeing it aren't going to be that often. No one will put this on site. Exactly. And if there's 750, let's say, I don't know, 100 of them come to Australia maybe, they're just going to be people's collections. We'll know if you don't get one, we'll know people that get them, but you're not just going to have constant access to it. Also, I think if you buy it, you'll sell it and get your money back, if not more, because of the demand over supply. Exactly. I mean, if I bought it, I'd probably have it at my house for a month. I'd put it on site so everyone else can enjoy it and then I'd bring it back home. Um, it's, it's the, it's the fact that Spooky are making it as well. Um, I would have bought TNA if my best friend didn't buy TNA and then stored it at my house for my, do you know what I mean? Like, I pretty much owned the TNA without, without buying it and I got my, my fun from it and then my friend. Thanks Nima. Thanks Nima, yeah. But I, I, some people like the same stuff you like. The stuff that Scott Denisi likes in Pinball, like, the feel of playing TNA, Some people don't get it and don't like the same things that I like. The way the ball locks, the light show, everything is very satisfying to me. And that was for himself. So to bring in a theme that I like with Scott Denisi, with Bo and Kieran's design the rule set, David Van Ness does amazing animations. They've upgraded their PC, apparently, Marty. And it's also Eric Pripke, I think his name is, EP the Geek. He's doing coding as well. So it's a good team, a good design team, a good manufacturing team, and a good license team, I'd imagine. Yeah.
    19:40
    When are we going to see this machine money? Charlie jumped on Pinside and he said, the reveal, we are working with Adult Swim, who is the license holder of Rick and Morty,
    19:50
    and it'll be soon, but it's not up to them. So I believe we'll see it, you know, it could be anywhere from tomorrow towards the end of the year, but I think we'll see it soon. Yeah, I think around Christmas time is what I've got in my head. Okay. So that would be a nice Christmas present to get the reveal. Yeah.
    20:09
    Yeah. Okay. So what do we know about the game, Ryan? Because all we seen so far as you said if you look on the trailer I don know how long it goes for like a minute or so maybe even 30 seconds There just one little tiny section of play What do you think about the art Marty What do you think about the art It's very important. Well, the art's great, right? Because you've got a really good art style already.
    20:35
    I'm not saying it's like Iron Maiden. So don't people go, oh, Rick and Morty looks nothing like Iron Maiden. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is you've already got really good art and a canvas already and just assets. But Ion Maiden was like, oh, well, there you go. That's why you had a good play field. Integrating all that together was the genius that happened with Ion Maiden. With this, again, I think you've just got really good animation, really good comic style already there. Yeah, it's, and I think we did see, there was somebody that had a photo of a hammer on a wall and you can see Rick and Morty in the back so you can kind of get an idea of what the side eye is going to look like. It already, it lends itself to Pinball. They, I'm not going to say they're going to do a lazy job with it. No. But I don't think it's going to be difficult to get this wrong. Yeah, I don't think the artwork is going to sell the Pinball machine. This is not like a zombie yeti presents an interpretation on Rick and Morty. You know, this is going to be just look like a Rick and Morty Pinball machine. We got one little tiny screenshot. We can see on that screenshot, we can see a 2X insert and we can see Morty A and little pictures of Morty. If you know Rick and Morty, you know what this is. This is a Morty adventure card. So Morty goes on adventures and in every X amount of adventures, he gets to choose his own adventure, right? So I'm guessing that represents your modes. Your modes are going to be something that you complete when you go into different universes.
    22:13
    And when you finish your modes, you get a little Morty stamp and perhaps a Playfit multiplier, just like Dialed In.
    22:22
    What else can we see in that? Okay, there's rumors that this Pimball machine is pretty different. And Marty, we've chatted to Scott Dinesi twice. I haven't chatted to him for a while. I'm not sure how competitive he is in the Pinball podcasting scene now. I've been out of the loop. I'm guessing people have booked him to come on the show like six months in advance. Oh, for sure. But from what we know, he likes doing unique things or plays on unique things. That kind of pop bumper in the middle of the play field on TNA. Yes, we've seen that before on EMs and things like that, but it wasn't implemented in the same way. The lights don't pulse the way it happens. It doesn't send the ball in danger. You don't have to hit it.
    23:08
    What else do we have? We've got the inline drops. Yes, it's been done before, but not in the way that he did it. Correct. Forming the Danisi lock that we know it now. Yes, the Danisi lock. So there's rumours that this doesn't have an Italian bottom, Marty.
    23:23
    Well, I know that sounds dirty, but it's not. An Italian bottom is effectively the standard flipper layout that we know of at the moment where they are symmetrical next to each other. And I'm trying to remember, like there was an Atari game that had the flippers in a different direction. There was also a Bally as well that had them as well. So the Pinball Circus is one of those that has weird flippers as well. Yeah. So it's not just about the flippers. It's kind of about the inlanes and the slingshots, right? Yes, pretty standard. Yes. If you look at Metallica, oh, no, that's got the two inlanes. But, you know, my Star Trek, for example, Star Trek is a classic Italian bottom with a kickback. Yeah. Okay. So can you see what I'm talking about now on that little screenshot, Marty?
    24:17
    What's next to the 2X? What's that thing? It's blurred out, but it is so obvious once I tell you what it is.
    24:25
    Next to the 2X? The left of the 2X on that picture. Okay. Well, see, that's what I'm trying to work at. You're talking about the blue thing. Yes.
    24:34
    I don't know what it is. It's so obvious. I'm thinking the same thing and then it clicked and I'm like, ah, that's what it is. It's a fucking pop bumper, Marty. Yeah, I know it's a pop bumper, but it looks like a pop bumper that lowers and raises from the playfield.
    24:52
    I don't think so. That blue thing is a switch. You think it lowers? No, it wouldn't do that. No, I don't. I'm just looking at it going, oh, that would be novel. Kind of like Zachariah where they had those whole pop-up and go up and down. Or like the balloon balloon or whatever. I think this might be replacing the, well, according to the picture, the left slingshot.
    25:20
    Okay. Possibly. Okay, a pop bumper instead of a sling. Yeah. Okay. Don't do it. Just, if you can make that go away instead of this thing having a pop bumper, just, if you can redo that, guys, that would make me so happy. Sure, I mean, surely if they did that, they would have tested it and it would just be this fun thing. I don't know. There's ramps on this thing, mate. This is not a single-level player field. You don't need to hypothesize about that. It has ramps. No, we know. It has more than one ramp, so it has at least two that's on there. What else can we say about it, Marty? I think it will have a very unique locking mechanism, I've heard.
    26:05
    Kind of like the Denisi lock, but not. Maybe an evolution on that? I guess we'll see that soon. Well, I mean, they love that so much that they put it in Alice Cooper as well. Yeah. Just making that point, and it works well.
    26:18
    Okay. This is something... All right. You know... I don't... Yeah. I know. Okay. So guys, he's pausing because there's things he knows that he can't tell me and he can't tell you. So tell me what you can tell me.
    26:35
    Okay, you know how... Okay, maybe if you don't want the surprise spoiled of what might be on there, I might be totally wrong. Just skip forward like 10 minutes or something. Probably 15, 20, yeah, keep going. So do you know when you hit the ball into the scoop on TNA, what happens, Marty? It shoots it straight back at you. Yes, and what other machine does that? Like, nothing, right? Like, Scott Denisi doesn't want to waste time. He doesn't want a fucking animation to play, like, you know, double click the flippers, just like, in, out, bang. Now, you would think there would have to be a representation or a mech that represents a portal on the playfield, right? Yes. Yeah, you would think that's one of the first things they would try and implement. So how do you implement a portal on a Pimball machine, Marty? Well, I would say you would do something like Star Trek Next Generation, where you've actually got balls already loaded up into different parts of the machine. So it goes into one thing, spits out another one, gives you the impression that it's transported over, but in actual fact there's just a ball coming out. So what was it? The Spectrum is another. Boom, that's it, yeah. That's apparently, yeah, and No Fear does it as well when you load the ball into Scott. Steve Ritchie has the same OCD that Scott D'Anissi has where he wants things to be fast. Scott D'Anissi has upped it a level, right, where you want the ball returning. You don't want the ball traveling through subways and then locking and distracting a player and then it pops out. To have one ball go through one area and then another ball pop out immediately, it gives the illusion that the ball, it's kind of like pinball magic. People want the magic in pinball. That's what it is. It just pops out straight away. But, Marty, this is one step further.
    28:33
    Really? You know, how did the ball get into that area? It's just like a scoop, right? Like it's just a scoop. A subway. Yeah, it's a subway, but the ball goes in through a scoop. Wouldn't it be cool if it was like the ball launched into there off the flipper? Like in the air.
    28:54
    Yeah? Off the flipper. Do you mean like a raising ramp type thing? Yeah, I think it's kind of like, what am I trying to think? Like Revenge from Mars? You know, which has got the ramp that goes up to hit the ship? Or No Good Gophers? Or GoldenEye? Yeah. I mean, I love No Good Gophers, but I fucking hate that the only implementation of that ramp is to get the hole-in-one, which I know everyone loves except me, because I'm just like, it's such a low-percentage fucking shot. I hate when the ball clinks around there. I don't like it. Well, I'm thinking, you know, Goldeneye, how Goldeneye has that sort of ramp that lifts up to go into the satellite dish. Are we thinking that kind of thing? Well, I've heard little tidbits and I'm trying to piece it together in my head and it could be totally fucking wrong, but wouldn't it be cool if you can somehow activate a slam ramp kind of thing? Is that what they call it on No Go Fist? It slams down the playfield and fucking destroys it if you don't have the right... I can't remember. I know it's just a hole in one shot. Yeah, so the ramp slams down, maybe the ball gets staged kind of like Keith Elwin does in Jurassic Park and then bam, you shoot the ball, it goes into, I don't know, something like a massive hole. I don't know. The more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense. But you shoot it into the portal, that's how you start a mode and the ball pops out, you're in a different world and then the music changes, you're in a new mode. Well, wouldn't it be? I mean, I think, what am I trying to say here? What would be really interesting, though, is if there is a way that you can go into modes where it actually changes the look of the machine. And the only times I think we've ever seen that was, go with me on this, a predator. You know, when they had that blacklight mode, which tries to change how it looks by putting a UV blacklight on it. So I'm just wondering whether there's something they could do when you're going into one of these multiverses and it takes you to a completely different planet where it changes the whole look and feel of the playfield. That would be cool. Yeah. And he has the ability to do that in a way because, you know, he was the one that really, I felt, integrated color-changing GI with the physics of the machine. Yeah, I mean, I think every single LED on TNA was an RGB LED, and I'm assuming Rick and Morty would be the same. It makes me so happy to say Rick and Morty, like there's going to be a Pinball machine. The Rick and Morty Pinball machine, how fucking cool.
    31:31
    I'm going to 3D print some fucking little portal gun gadgets to blue tack on my playfair. I'm going to raise the value.
    31:39
    Here's the sound of somebody that's a Rick and Morty fan, right? This is why this machine is going to sell out. And people that are going, what a stupid theme. And somebody, I know it's Pinside and there's been some great conversations there as well. So don't get me wrong, guys. But I think it really has been, people have been saying, I don't understand this. Therefore, Spooky is doomed.
    32:04
    Are people really saying that? I don't know. I was starting to get a serious headache when I'm reading Pinside. I know it's like really boring to say that Pinside sucks because everyone says it, but just go into that Rick and Morty thread. I dare you to read, oh my gosh, what I did today. Like, hey, Ryan, you going to be on the podcast? Yeah. I click on the Rick and Morty thread and there's like 600 new posts and I'm just sitting there and after like 30 minutes, I was like, I fucking hate my life. And it's just this circular, circular conversation. But anyway. Reading graffiti on the wall, just, you know. It was, but it was just, there were people that were fans trying to convince people that are not fans, and those fans just not able to be convinced. It was just, I don't know, it's a very interesting human behind. I was only reading it because I wanted to find out if there's any more new information, but you have to sift through the trash to find the small little nugget of information. So, yeah. Yeah.
    33:02
    So, you're in. You said 99%. What's it going to take to get you 100%? Well, let me ask you this. Have you joined the Fang Club? I, this is my only little internal struggle. I fucking hate, Marty, subscription-based anything. It takes a lot, a lot for me to sign up for everything. The amount of times I've signed up for Netflix and then deleted and then signed up and deleted Because I hate reoccurring bills. It's like just an unnecessarily unrealistic thing of mine where it just... Well, except for electricity and your phone. Yes, because you need it, right? Whereas I'm like, I have to sign up to order this thing that I want and then do I, like, I don't know. I haven't even checked.
    33:52
    When it gets revealed, I'll do what I need to do. I'm not like my morals aren't that high that I'm going to say I'm going to miss out on this fucking pinball machine because I'm going to stick it to the man. No, but I just don't like clubs. I haven't listened to one Stern insider podcast from Nate Shivers. I'm sorry, Nate. I know you're fucking obsessed with our show. You listen all the time. But sorry, Nate. I haven't listened to you once because I hate things hiding behind subscription-based services. Yeah, paywalls. Yep. Yes. It's just a personal hate of mine. Everything needs to be open. But I understand why they do it. And I respect it. And they had this weird system before Mardino. People who ordered AMH had first dibs on Rob Zombie. People who ordered Rob Zombie and AMH had first dibs on, what was PIN number three? Was it TNA? And it just kind of got to the point where they couldn't give people first dibs because then it was kind of unfair for everyone else. So now the first dibs goes to this collective fan club. I refuse to call it a fan club as well. Yes, so I will join up if I need to join up to order it, which it looks like I will. I think you'll have to, because I honestly think, and I know that Charlie has answered the question, what happens if they sell more fan club members than there's, you know, 750? He's kind of gone, well, great. Yeah. Yeah, so, yeah. That's all I care about, I guess, is that, you know, people that want to get them will get them and they'll be busy for a year and a half while they think about PIN number, what is it, five or six, whatever they're up to now. Well, look, I have no problem with paywalls if it's something that I'm interested in. And news articles, for example, if I come up across The Age or Herald or whatever it is, and I can't read an article because it's asking me to put money, I'll still Google search and find it elsewhere. I've got other options. There's a Google trick with that. I can't remember what it was, but you just have to click, like, I don't know, take cookies off or something like that, and it shows the article. Anyway. Okay, there you go. So I don't have a problem with that. What I understand is, though, if you are going to have a fan club or a fang club, you need to make it special. And this is a way of definitely making it special. If you're going to give people the ability to get a machine before everybody else, particularly a machine that I think will sell out, I think they're going to push their membership very high. Yeah, the fear of missing out in this one will be high, especially when it's revealed. I'm sure all of the weird intricacies of the Pinball machine will turn some people off, and Charlie even said that.
    36:35
    It's not the fact. I mean, if there is a pop bumper sitting there instead of the slings, that will drive a large percentage. Not large, like more than 50, but a chunk of people would say they're out just based on that. And not even seeing gameplay, they'll just see it and say no, just like the Magnus slings in Ghostbusters. It just drove some people fucking crazy that, you know, like a Magnus and Chagulibur. Yeah. No, when people saw it, they thought it was awesome. When they played, they went, oh, it's execution. It was, if my memory serves me correctly, it was both. People were going crazy before the reveal. They saw the reveal, like, ah, it's not that bad. And you're right, you know, it depends on if you play it or not. But people were said they're still out based off that. And I was the one who was on the fence. And that's why I didn't go into Ghostbusters because I was unsure if that was going to ruin the gameplay. When I saw it, it was sold out anyway, the limited edition, so I missed out.
    37:29
    Anyway, my point is, if you want this Pinball machine, you will most likely get one. Even though you might miss out on the 750 initial orders, people get unexpected bills all the time. People fall out of love with machines. There's absolutely no way that 750 people will keep their order in regardless. Regardless, now, Spooky does have their special little terms and conditions where it's a non-refundable deposit, and that was because of the mess that happened with Rob Zombie where people, a lot of people bought Rob Zombie because America's most haunted prices were skyrocketing. They said, I'm just going to fucking buy this. I don't care if I'm going to get it or not, if I don't like it, because I can flip this. And people kept on flipping the machines until, and Spooky was so kind of like slow at producing the machines that- Because the demand wasn't there, people were getting their machines. Yes. And then by the time it kind of like got halfway through, you could get one secondhand before the new ones were available. So people were just like, well, I'll just cancel my order and buy this person's one for $500 less. And then it kept on diving and diving. And then Spooky said, okay, Lyman Smex Pinball machine, non-refundable deposit, only buy it if you want it. You give us $1,000. You can transfer. They're not evil. It's not like you can't transfer it. If they don't have, I'm sure they'll just like find someone else. If they have someone else, if there's no demand for it, then it's up to you to sell that position, maybe for slightly less, maybe for slightly more. Or I have seen, Marty, at the very start of TNA, people selling their $1,000 positions for $1,500. Or, hey, I'm number 10. I don't need to buy it now. I'll stop with you at $150, but I want $500 plus, right? Yeah. So it's this weird market. That happens a lot in cars. When exclusive models come out, people will buy their spot and then sell it if there's demand for it. Yeah, so yeah, I mean this is the only Pinball machine that it happens to because of the unique ordering kind of experience that Spooky has created.
    39:33
    Hopefully because this is Rick and Morty doesn't reach ridiculous heights. People don't hoard machines and create this kind of like this false economy and this market based off demand. But yeah, it's a free market so let's see what's going to happen. Are you interested, Manny, at all? No. No? Why is that? No. Okay, it's funny though because a lot of people have reached out to me because I said that I'm a big Rick and Morty fan. I love the show. It's not Adventure Time. If it was an Adventure Time machine, you would have my money right now out there to pinball manufacturers. Make an Adventure Time machine. Well, they cancelled the show now so that's very disappointing. Anyway, so I love the show. I'm not, first of all, I'm not in the market now because Because I'm going to be unemployed for a period of time. And I would need to sell one of my, let's call it my AAA titles to be able to fund it. And that would mean either Star Trek's got to go, Wizard of Oz has got to go, or Jurassic Park's got to go. Now Star Trek we all know will never go Wizard of Oz was a gift Somebody bought that for me So I can sell it And I just got Jurassic Park And fucking hell I am so in love with it So in love with it Just the more I play it the more I enjoying it And I also enjoying get this right I am enjoying the code update experience Yeah, bitch, it's so good. I really enjoy just putting it in there and discovering the new changes they've made. I love that. I'm glad I got him one. I don't think I've dived deep. I mean, obviously there's changes with the smart missile, and not that I can hit the freaking shot,
    41:23
    you know, but I know a lot of the changes now are the wizard mode stuff, which I haven't done. I'm not sure if you've been to the wizard modes, Marnie, but... No, not even to the visitor center, no. No, no. That's the beauty of the game is that like I've enjoyed every game I've played on that machine. I've never once said, ah, this is getting boring and I'm literally playing the first layer of it. I'm spelling chaos, I'm doing some control room modes, I'm playing T-Rex modes, you know, the whole fossil shit, like all these, you know, people like, ah, check out this Amber Award thing, like, ah, I don't even know what that is, you know, like, I don't know, I don't know. Well, I'm the same. The first night I was streaming, people were trying to read out rules to me. I'm like, guys, don't tell me. Well, Ryan, you know what I'm like learning rules. It's like, you've just got to give me the surface first. Let me come to terms with that, then start adding more of the advanced stuff. Don't feed me the entire rule set. It overwhelms me. I've somehow turned into that and I think it's because I know base rules for so many Pinball machines that I no longer have space in my brain. Like when I was first learning Pinball machines, I'm like, I know everything about like these 20 machines. Like congratulations, Ryan, there's like a thousand machines out there. So I just don't have the capacity anymore. I play for fun. I don't want to play for an hour anymore on one game. I play a lot in competitions. I like to know what I need to do to blow up the game and to have a good time. Wizard mode hunting doesn't necessarily exist in my Robert 20 more. Marty, we took it. Well, I think, as you know, based on last week's episode, there's really only one game that I know all the rules to. Martin tips the top 100s. Sorry, Joe. Marty took over that one. You know who really loves Rick and Morty, Marty?
    43:15
    Who's that? Friend of the show, she's your friend too, Kate Martin. You met Kate in... I love Kate Martin. She's awesome. So I was just chatting to her throughout the week and she was just like talking about Rick and Morty. She had a tattoo on her body.
    43:29
    Just as a favor, if you like the show and you have Kate on your Facebook, you might... I chat to her all the time. Yes, you might have her on Facebook and never have chatted to her. This is your opportunity to reach out to her for the first time and not be like a creep and be like, Oh, hey, how are you going? You like Pimball? I like Pimball too. Just send her a Rick and Morty quote and it'll make her day. That's all I'm saying. Just do that and that'll make her happy.
    43:53
    She's going to wake up in the morning just like an inbox was full. Just do it. Just do it and she'll know it's from me and Brainy Points. Okay. I just wanted to add that in there. Awesome. It's in the show notes. Okay, great. So we're done with Rick and Morty. I think that's... There's adult mode. There's adult mode, Marty. We missed that. There's adult mode. Oh, well, yeah. Well, no, there's not. There's a family mode. Oh, family mode. Sorry. Well, that's important to note that it's going to come out of the box as adult, but then you can turn the family setting on. It's funny because I think almost all Rick and Morty swear words in the crass language are beefed out, but sometimes there's a lot of it sometimes. So it'll be interesting to see if that's all it is. It's just like a normal Rick and Morty conversation, but they just don't beep it out. But even without the beeps, you know what it's talking about. It's pretty bad. No, I know. Remember that episode where Morty was fucking, where they went to that like scrap shop and he bought, he's like, can you please buy me this? And it was like a blow-up doll, like a robot sex doll.
    45:00
    Yes, I do remember that. And he was in the other room, just having this fucking way. It's an adult show, guys. I was curious to know whether the machine's going to have a plumbus in it somewhere. Yes, it has to. This is the thing, Marty. There are so many cool things, but it's a Pimball machine, so you can only have so much.
    45:21
    Let's get a plumber. Plumbers? Shooter Knoth. I don't want to fucking say that. So you actually, you have to touch it, and it's sort of soft latex. Come on, guys. If you haven't thought of a plumbus, shoot a rod. Just do it now. That will sell out. Too much. And this is the thing, Marty. If they capture like 10% of what I want in there, I'll be happy. I'm not going to be one of those, you know, crazy fans like, I can't believe a Sinsons Pinball machine has no female voices. How dare they not represent those three characters, you know, Marge and Lisa, when they have like fucking 10 other characters. I don't mind. I'm not going to be that person. If they have a couple of the funny things, I'm probably the only person who's not obsessed with Pickle Rick because Pickle Rick is just like that one thing. I loved Pickle Rick. It was so good though. It just went to this whole place where you're just like, how did this happen? But if you look up merch, like 90% of merch is Pickle Rick. It's ridiculous.
    46:20
    But surely the plumbus will be a mode, not a physical thing on the play field. You've got to make it. Hit the shots to make it. That would be the kind of thing that I reckon Spooky would do to fuck with it. Makeup Plumbers shoot a knob so you actually have to touch this thing to launch the ball. I don't want to touch it.
    46:42
    Interdimensional cable. Yes. Who's that guy with ants in his eyes? I don't know. I'm Jere, I'm going to answer my answer.
    46:53
    Anyway, the funniest interdimensional cable bit was when there's a guy who's, Hi, I'm Schmeichel! And he's got a conjoined twin who's on the other channel, and they just split the fucking... Oh, God. They can't include all of this stuff, right? They can't include all of it. But yeah, it's my sense of humour because it's so fucking random. And you can tell that they're making up half the shit on the spot, just like the spooky reveal trailer, where he's like, oh, jeez, Rick, oh, jeez! Like, they're self-aware. It's all I am. Well, they're self-aware. They're like, well, yeah, big fucking deal as a Pinball machine, but like, yes, I fucking love it. Because we know what they're doing. Particularly when they do that interdimensional cable, you know that they are just playing those clips for the first time and just saying whatever's on their mind. Yeah, it was the fucking, like, it was the three brothers with guns.
    47:44
    I can't remember. I can't, yeah, anyway. Okay, we're done. We're done with Rick and Morty. Now, Ryan, let's move on to something else because it's been a while since you've been back. So I'm interested in Ryan's Raza review. Ah, geez. Because I know that because we had a chat about this. Yeah, but I mean, I was thinking about it today, just in case you asked me. I mean, I didn't think of a response or anything. I just thought, after Rick and Morty, like, my interest in Raza is like negative zero. Like, it can't be less than zero, but it's... I'm sorry. And it's not because the pinball machine is going to be horrible or this, this and that. It's just like, it's what Joe Kamikau said, and I fucking hate that he was right. Like right now, it's themes. I love TNA. I love Dulled In. But if you want to make me fall in love and commit to a pinball machine, it has to be something that I can attach myself to. And I've watched Rick and Morty over the last couple of years. I feel it's something that you have a connection to. Yes, mate. I'm going to cut a hole in that plumbus money.
    48:54
    It better be the right size. But taking that aside, right? Because we did have a bit of a chat about Raza and I said I loved it. You weren't quite so favourable. What are your thoughts on Raza from what you've seen?
    49:09
    Yeah, I mean, yeah, I didn't watch like all the footage. The couple of things that I saw, you know, people were plunging. It was, you know, jumping to the outlane, like sling, sling, bang, sling, sling, bang. And then, you know, the argument, there's an argument for everything, you know, and I don't want to sound like this is an excuse Pinball machine, but if you have to explain everything that is happening that people don't like, people aren't going to like it, especially when it's on site. Now, they might not be aiming for that thing. This might be for people at, you know, home collectors, but, you know, Robert said so many things like, you know, he's going to expand Pinball and, you know, think bigger, think bigger. Like, you know, all these things, Pinball isn't mainstream enough, and we're going to do this, and this was really early on. So you just get these crazy ideas in your head, like, what's he going to do and what's he going to do? And then you kind of see it, and you're like, ah, like, it's just, right now, it's still just kind of a normal Pinball machine, which is what people want. But the artwork looked cool. I like that. I like J-POP's crazy designs. I don't know, J-Pop keeps on trying to bring back old things that were on like EMs and trying to make them cool on new Pinball machines like the thing that kind of rotates on the side and the moving target on the back which is like an EM thing, right?
    50:26
    Is that what people want now? I don't know. You can make them want it but it's not what people are screaming for. I don't know, I think people are addicted to kind of faster playing action. The one thing that kind of disappointed me, which as I said, it was a prototype, blah, blah, blah, excuse me, it's a prototype, is the ramp rejection because there's nothing that irks me more, right? Keith Elwin talks about kinetic satisfaction. I've talked for years about the Monster Bash ramp when you fail that, was it the left, not this Monster Bash? Yeah. The left ramp. I even asked George Gomez about it. The apex of the shot is so far in that when it rejects, the ball moves away from you and then back and it twists a knife in my heart because I'm just like, that doesn't feel good. But Lord of the Rings has got the same ramp. Yes, but for some reason it's shallower and it doesn't reject as often and the flippers are more powerful. But yes, it's a George Gorman thing with Apexes really high up. Deadpool has it. If you've got a really horribly set up Deadpool, you can get ramp projections on that shot.
    51:42
    It's not satisfying to me. And sometimes you don't know why you like Pinball Machines, Marty, because you play them and there's flashing lights and you're getting this dopamine release and oh my gosh, I'm having fun. But you can't pinpoint one exact thing. But when you have that lack of that thing, that's when I realized what I like. Like when I got The Hobbit, I realized I like smooth rolling balls. If a ball is going over the playfield, oh, fuck. I love smooth balls, Marty. If a ball is jumping over ramp flaps, jumping over flaps, Marty, and really thick mylar and rollovers, that isn't satisfying to me. Shooting a rollover to light lock isn't satisfying to me.
    52:26
    There's certain things that are more kinetically satisfying to me than others, and there's no super magic formula about it, but ramp projections to me, being part of the game, right, like making that a thing, you can only get multipliers if you don't hit the shot as well as, you know what I mean? I don't want to aim for the slight side of the ramp so it loses momentum and loses kinetic energy and rejects. It's not like the be-all and end-all of the machine, but I don't know. The way that Robert was talking in an interview that he did in another podcast on Canadian Pinball Podcast,
    53:04
    it's almost like, it doesn't matter, but they have a million other games up their sleeve. So if you don't like Raza, big deal, right? I'm like, you were like game two, three, four, five, six. This is not like the be all and end all of the company. It was just weird for Robert Mueller. I imagine him when he's talking. Ron Hallett says he thinks he's like a wrestler. I imagine him as like a massive gorilla beating his chest like, ah, this is going to happen.
    53:39
    And then, you know, it's like, cool, fucking show us the perfection of pinball machines. And I was like, well, it's a prototype. Show us what you got. I hope they fucking have a screaming, a screaming fucking... Do you remember when they were hiding from the intergalactic, whatever the fuck it's called, and they go to all those planets, and like, this planet seems cool, and then the sun raises up and just screams at them, like, how long are the... Anyway, freaking Maud is fucking awesome. Anyway, I could be nothing but slightly disappointed, but at the same time, everyone needs D-Broot to do well. You said it on the podcast, Marty, we all want D-Broot to do well. I'm not bagging it, I'm not saying, don't buy their fucking machine, this, this, that, blah, blah, blah. I'm just saying I wasn't as impressed as I would like to be, but you've piqued my interest. You know, you've got an amazing team assembled. I'm still looking forward to it. I'm still, I'm pretty much at the same space I was before. I still haven't seen the fireworks yet.
    54:49
    Yeah, and that's, yeah, that was really the summary of it was. You talked to Big Game and we're wanting to see the Big Game. We haven't seen it yet. That's it. Which is, there's nothing wrong. They, you know, as I said, they had an explanation for everything. And we did that because we wanted to at least show you that we're serious. We did that because we were collecting data. There's a lot of stuff that you thought we were done on purpose and you thought it was by accident.
    55:15
    It's this whole thing where it's like, cool, but don't use us as a crash test dummy because we are still going to form an opinion based on that. But hey, no money still, no pre-orders, no worries. We don't give a shit. Just when it's ready, we can judge them then when they have something to sell to us. Yep, well, we look forward to that.
    55:37
    So, social media watch. Ryan. Yes. A lot of stuff that's happened on social media this week. Did you know that? Heaps, Marty. Heaps. I've been glued to Facebook.
    55:58
    First, what I've noticed is, thank you, Laura Fraley, for clipping this. But there was actually, there's a show on Netflix called Virgin River. You know, I don't know anything about the show. I have probably no desire to probably watch it either. It's an American romance drama, right? You know what I'm sure. Okay, whatever. Sure. But there is a scene where they're in a bar where there is a pinball machine and they're talking about competition or something. And the guy starts reading out what Papa is for. He actually says Papa and how it promotes competitive pinball. So I'll link that. It's so random.
    56:41
    A, it's random. The acting is terrible. The scripting is just awful. But the biggest crime of all, Ryan, is that the pinball machine is Cyclone. Oh, no. No one wants to know the rules on Cyclone.
    56:57
    No, it's worse than that. It's making chimes. Ah, well, that's every pinball machine, Marty. That was getaway in fucking Better Call Saul. It's just they don't want to get sued. They don't want approval. Let's put a couple of dings. Let's put some bells in there, Marty. I don't think it's got to do with approval. I think it's got to do with the fact that, well, people will know it's a pinball if it goes ding, ding, ding. That's the last time it was relevant, Marty, in the fucking early 70s. I know. The other thing I noticed only a few hours ago was, you know, Rota Dave, he's been on the shows at David Peck, an updated video of his Led Zeppelin machine, which has now been hooked up to a Marshall amp blaring Led Zeppelin music. You've got to have that music integration, Marty, it's a Led Zeppelin Pinball machine, and amazing art from a friend of the show, Mr. Brad, all right. So I think there's a mention in that post about like for the Twippies there's a section about, I don't know, there's heaps of sections Marty I haven't looked yet but vote for Brad. I have and it's for Homebrew. Yes, that's it. Done. Vote for Led Zeppelin.
    58:15
    Yeah, do. And Brad Allwright for art I guess. It looks great. It sounds great. Well done. I'll post a link to that as well.
    58:26
    And something that you wanted to talk about in relation to rules. Well, did you read it, Marty? Because I didn't read it all. I did. Maybe you can talk about it. Because all I wanted to say about this was another friend of the show who's been on the show, Richard Rhodes, current Australian champion, trying to lose 100 pounds. I think he's in the arse end of it now. So come on, Richard, you can do it. But he got to Visitor Center, and I think it was playing on my machine on location. I haven't updated it to 0.96, so I'm not sure if this part is any different in the latest code.
    59:04
    It was the, what do they call it, the Meltdown, you know? And it reminded me of how epic the Meltdown count-up, I don't know what the official name for it is, in Star Trek. And me and you love this thing, and we do the same thing. And I've seen people on the stream do the same thing where you get your medals and it's like, ching, ching, ching, ching, ching. Ha! Ching, ching, ching, ching, ching. And you can't help but like, you know, gunpoint at the screen like you're the one doing the chings like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And then the ha! Right? And it's just a good feeling. It just, it allows you to look at the screen and say, this is what I achieved. And yeah, you can, we'll link in the show notes maybe. This is the, it doesn't really spoil anything. This is the kind of the count up, countdown, whatever you want to call it, for the bonus for Visitor Center, which is one of the wizard modes in Jurassic Park. Which is effectively your medals, really. Yeah, yeah, but there's many different types of medals, I guess. Dinosaurs, fossils, people rescued, rescue streak. But the countdown, the light show is just amazing.
    60:10
    Yeah, it's awesome. But the post as well also talks about, so this is Steve Bowden, also a friend of the show. He's been on a couple of times. He was talking about what is it that makes you feel really excited about that moment? Is it the light show or is it the huge amount of zeros that are up on the screen?
    60:32
    And really the question is about what is an appropriate amount? Because obviously he's coding for D-Broot, so it's a very philosophical moment for him because he wants to know how much do you reward people? And is the payoff too great? And does it then mean that all of a sudden you're going to have these billion scores and that bonus, that amount that you get, is it worth that much? And it's just really, what is it about those moments that get you excited? Is it the big number Is it the light show and payoff Yeah for me it a combination of both You know I did read through most of I just was reminded then Yeah we talked about it with it not score inflation we talked about multipliers and how hard it is and we asked Lyman the question we asked Dwight the question you know like you have to code you code in the same experience for a triple super on Ghostbusters that worth 3 million points which is now removed Pimball is not approved, thanks to us. And it now starts at a higher base value. And then you talk about getting a triple super worth a billion points or something, and it's the same call out, and it's the same light show. So what makes it different? And it's so hard because you're right, the scoring in pinball machines, people usually don't like sequential style scoring. They don't like it. They describe that as a grind, right? When people say, how do you score big on Transformers? It's a grind, right? Like there's no way like, all right, do this one thing and that's how you blow it up. You stack bloodbath, you stack this, you stack that and watch your score just go boom. Yeah, right. Right? So people want that. People want that adrenaline rush.
    62:24
    You know, like the score has to be a part of that. But how much is too much, right? Like how much of a super or a paddock? I haven't seen scoring inflation. I know there's been clips on Jurassic Park where check it out in the latest code. You get amber pops or amber slings or amber whatever at the right time and watch this score go from half a billion to 2.7 in 30 seconds. I haven't actually watched those clips yet. It's been nerfed, I think, since so. I don't personally like that kind of stuff.
    62:55
    But as I said, I haven't got deep enough into Jurassic Park to know if it does exist or if people are earning it legitimately or timing things at the right time. I don't know. Yeah, well, you know, when playing some games, you could have a five-minute game and straight after have a five-minute game and get ten times the score. And I've had that a couple of times with Jurassic Park. But also don't forget this is not 1.0 code so it hasn't had all the balancing and I was talking to somebody about this during the week. When you have all these modes and when you're combining all these things, score balancing becomes another crazy thing because you've now got to have that moment when these two things are combined or these two multiballs are stacked together but you've then got this other mode that's running and then you've got the amber and then you've got the missile shot as well. You've then got to factor all that in. It becomes really complicated to do all the score balancing. But the example I've given is that I've had, let's say, Chaos Multiball running with a paddock or whatever, and then got to the end, and it hasn't really been that long. And I've looked up and I'm over a billion. I'm like, how did that happen? But there's so much going on. I didn't have that moment to even look at my score to know where all the points were coming from. Yeah, you kind of, I mean, I guess we are a small percentage of the pinball playing community, but we're also the ones that are buying the machines and supporting the industry that way. We've got a podcast. We're talking about it. So it's hard because I watch people play my machines on location all the time. I love people watching. I love making adjustments based on people having shit games. I'm like, oh my gosh, this person put money in my machine. They had no fun because of this. I'm going to make the ball save time 20 seconds long instead of the default five seconds because they lose the ball all the time. But at least they might get multiball. I don't really like modifying rules because I know people come to play my machines that are really good players, so I just like making ball save or something easy like that.
    64:53
    But when you know more about the machine, I think randomly getting high scores cheapens the experience for me, and that's what Ghostbusters was to me in a nutshell, Where I would think I'd play an amazing game but because I didn't have the 6x and because I didn't have PKE Frenzy, you know, this is on early code, I didn't score 6 billion points. And then I would have this shit game but have one shot in PKE at 6x and I would get 3 billion from it or something.
    65:23
    So it really depends on who you code in the pinball machine for and that's the hardest thing. And I would hate to fucking sit there and code Pinball Machines at the moment, Marty, because the people who scream the loudest don't necessarily make up the largest percentage of the playing community.
    65:38
    Okay. Yeah. I'd agree with you. Yeah. I'd agree with you. I think it's one of these things where people are trying to come up with the formula, what is going to make it translate to the player. And it's just, it's a really hard thing to get right. It is, but it's also like, just look at any Bally Williams game. I would love, you know, I'm being selfish here because I know this might cripple your company. I would love for someone to release a Pinball machine with a Bally Williams style rule set like AFM or Medieval Madness or something because I learned all those rules, Marty, and it's not that hard by just playing and you just learn because it's just, it makes sense. Whereas I don't think I will ever understand Iron Maiden rules or Jurassic Park rules unless I play the machine a hundred times, then read a rule sheet, right? Because it's not intuitive. I'm not bagging it because I know Keefe designed that layer of the Pimball machine for us, right? For the top 1,000 players in the world, right? So I'm grateful for that. But at the same time, you know, is it impossible to make an intuitive, deep Pinball machine? Because I feel like right now everything needs you to read, right? Like, do you understand how paddocks work? Do you understand how rescues work? I do now, but, you know, the first – but you know what I'm like when I play a machine. I don't want to know anything. I just want to – what is the machine telling me? And what I realized with Jurassic Park is you've got to read the screen. So it's got to tell you what to do, and sometimes it's not quick enough, particularly the control room modes. Keeith, just give it about another extra three or four seconds, that's all I'm asking, because by the time you look up, you're reading it, the mode starts, you're like, oh, I missed all that. What? Isn't control room shots just the, just like, it's like that baby blue colour, you just keep on hearing baby blue shots?
    67:31
    Well, there's three different modes. I always do system boot, and I've never got into the same mode. Okay, well, there's three different ones, and then there's, I think, the invalid mode or whatever it is. If you do all of them, yeah. Yes. It's kind of annoying. I have to drive to play my Jurassic Park every time, and I never have amazing games on it. I'm waiting for, like... Come over and join me. Yeah, okay. Yes, I will.
    67:57
    Please do. Hey, this, this, this, I know we're probably not up to this bit yet, but this week, Marty, Dwight Sullivan, right, is in Australia. The Dwight Sullivan. And the only reason why he's in Australia is because of our fucking podcast. How cool is that?
    68:13
    I know that's actually true. Someone heard Dwight on our podcast and asked me like, oh my gosh, Dwight was speaking so passionately. He's amazing. But I don't want to give the whole story. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say. But Dwight is in Australia talking at like a software convention and he is representing Pinball. He's telling people what it's like to be a pinball coder for people that are not in the pinball industry, obviously. They're in the software industry, but it's about learning about people's different processes and different software industries. So Dwight's been coding for almost 30 years, and he speaks very passionately. So from our podcast, he's in Australia, and he's visited all the major cities on Wednesday. Maybe this is in the past if you listen to the podcast at the end of the week. So we are stealing him for one night and we're going to run a really cool fun event at the Golden Fleece in the city. It's at the Golden Fleece Hotel, the Argonauts Pinball Climb of South Melbourne. I'll be running a tournament with Stu. It's going to be a normal kind of style tournament, but Dwight will be there. We'll have some stall ball. We're going to play some fun games. I'm going to bring my Munsters Translight. He's going to sign it. I'm going to give it away. Marty, you're going to be streaming as much as you can so you can catch it. I am going to stream. So everybody on Melbourne Silverball, please check out the Twitch page. Of course, I link it every week in the show notes. Yes. So watch it if you can't come. But if you're in Melbourne, come. I know people are like, oh my God, competition. Just come and you can just talk to Dwight and we'll get him drunk and we'll have a good time. Cool. Yep. Yep. Awesome. Dwight's awesome. He is like in person and obviously on the podcast, but also when you see him on the streams and he's so passionate about what he does, that's who you get. That is Dwight. He is just a great guy to talk to about this stuff. He's so freaking passionate. Yeah, let's get the next five or so games out of him at the next stream. Yeah, of course.
    70:10
    So what else has been happening in your week? My week? My last couple of months, Marty? What happened this week? Okay, when I play Pinball now, Marty, in Pinball comps, Pinball tournaments, I'm either right now coming first or close to last. And I've figured that it's when I'm super tired, I just can't play pinball. Like, I might as well not even rock up. I hear that. I might as well not even rock up because I can play pinball okay for about an hour or so and then I just hit a wall. I can't see the ball, can't concentrate, make stupid choices. I rage and it's just like I'm not even close to being good.
    70:49
    And it's not an excuse because I don't think I'm an amazing pinball player or anything. But that's what seems to happen, either first or close to last. Well, this week I needed to go to the Argonauts. I put Game of Thrones there, a new Pimball machine to join the collection. And I was on like three hours sleep, and I'm just like, I'm here, I'm going to play. And I managed to win my first sleep-deprived win, Marty, and I don't know how it happened.
    71:17
    This is just natural raw talent. Yeah, Richard Rhodes and Jordan Treader were there and I somehow beat them all and it was on Jurassic Park. T-Rex modes, Marty. Grind out T-Rex modes. They're worth so much. Good easy points. Truck chase. Shot, bang, shot, bang. Fucking love it. It's a good game. What else have I been up to?
    71:40
    Have you bought any new machines since we last spoke? Yeah, probably. What have I bought? Bought and sold and then bought again? I bought a second stars, did I tell you that? I've got two stars now.
    71:51
    I'm running a comp at the end of the month, like a opportunity kind of thing to comp in a day. So come to that if you want. It's on the IFA website. The state championships is coming up, Marty. So we've never had really a state championship thing before in Victoria.
    72:10
    I decided for fun that we should do it just so people have something to aim towards. You're in the mix, Marty. You're at like 16 or so, so you're qualifying. Oh no, I think I've only played nine tournaments this year. Yes, I had a look, I think you have the highest percentage, like the average amount of poppers from each tournament. You're like number one because you're pretty much one of the best in the state, but you haven't been to many tournaments this year, Marty. No, it's going to happen in 2020. I'm going to get my mojo back, I promise. Well, the tournaments have to be fun. I volunteered for, because the IFBA dollar fee is coming next year for Australia.
    72:51
    So each state will have an actual state finals. They will all be the same. They will all feed ACS, right? So right now to get into the Australian Championship Series, you just need to finish in the top 48 for your best 20 whoppers in any state. But the way it works now, Marty, is you'll have a state ranking. So every time, you know, like on Keith Elwin's profile, you'll see he's 5th in this state and 20th in this state. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we will have that. So we will have our own ranking system like that. The top X amount in each state will be invited to play off. And I don't know what the... I've seen streams of this, Marty, but I'm kind of scared of being responsible for running this day in the future Because like this is the whole year leads up to this and then it's and all of them will happen on the same day because you can't fly to New South Wales if you don't qualify and then try and qualify there. So they're all going to happen, say, at like 1 p.m. on a Saturday, January the 12th or something, 2021. Right. And that all the top X amount from that state will get will earn their place at ACS. So the only way to earn your place is to do well on one day, which is kind of frightening, right? Like how, you know, there's a lot riding on that.
    74:16
    No? Yeah, you're okay? I guess if you wouldn't, yeah, no, I do, but it depends on how seriously you take it. And I guess it's all or nothing, really, is what you're saying. Yeah, I think there will be a wildcard thing. So if you don't make it for some reason because you fizzle out in a day, but you have the most whoppers in Australia, you will still get in. But I think they're still trying to iron out the details of how many positions in each state, depending on the state size. Anyway, boring tournament talk. That's what's on my mind.
    74:43
    Okay. What have you been up to, Manny? Oh, nothing really. Streaming. So, Jurassic Park, again, love it. Just, it's fantastic. Going to be streaming Ill Virus soon. Oh. So, yeah. Who's, no, you don't need to tell me. Is it a secret person? Is this Eric's friend? What am I saying? How many? I don't want to know. Yeah, okay. It's interesting. But, yeah. So, I hope to play it because I'm really looking forward to playing it just because, you know, it's a new Pinball machine. Like, we all just love playing new Pinball machines.
    75:18
    It's the machine that I have seen least of because I was like, I'll just play it when it comes. And I don't know if one is going to end up on site because there probably would have been one already on site if it was going to happen, right? Yeah, if it was going to happen. Beatles ended up on site, so I thought if Beatles is on site, then surely Alvira will be, but I don't know. Maybe, give it time. I think maybe they'll sell out to the customers that want them, and if, I don't know, it just depends on demand really. But yeah, we'll see how that goes. I mean, it's a fairly limited game as far as units, I would imagine. Isn't it funny? When you kind of take a step back and think about it, I was thinking about it today with Rick and Morty and stuff, they're already two Alvira games, and no one cares really. I mean, I know Alvira has her fan base, but what's the pinball? Her fang base. Oh gosh, don't do it, Matty. It's really like, it's a pinball machine for pinball people, right? Yes, correct. That's it. And like Black Knight was. And I think that gig is, I don't want to say it's up because it just sounds mean, but I think that's been found out. I don't think the demand for that is as high as what people thought it was going to be.
    76:38
    Well, yeah. Well, we'll see. I'll get to have my own first-hand experience and I'll tell you all about it. So there you go. So the last thing to talk about this week is the competition. We mentioned it last week and we are running a competition and the prizes you are going to be able to win are a set of pin stadiums. Have I ever mentioned pin stadiums before? Fucking amazing pin stadiums. I know. Have you still got the pin stadiums on the Game of Thrones that you put into? I did, but I had to disconnect them while I was moving. I will 100% hook them up so Dwight can experience the epic light show he created. The ultimate flashing.
    77:17
    So the main prize pin stadiums, there's also an Attack from Mars alternate trans light from Brian Allen from Flyland Designs. Can I enter? Am I allowed to enter? Yes, of course you can. There'll be head-to-head t-shirts. There will be a head-to-head hoodie. There will also be a Loser Kid podcast cap. Oh, Marty. The best caps in the world. It's my – You were wearing one tonight when I saw it. Yeah, I wear it all the time. It's my replacement. It's just – yeah, I want that on my head all the time. The most comfortable – it's available to buy it, right? Like, you can buy it. Yes. It is. Okay. Buy it because – or don't buy it because I want to be exclusive and be in the leaders.
    77:59
    But they're so freaking comfortable, aren't they? Like, they're just premium. Premium. People, yeah. When people talk about their shirts, I'm not about you, Marty, but everyone's just like, buy my shirt. This is premium cotton. And then you get it and you're like, no, it's not. It's just a normal fucking t-shirt, right? Like it doesn't suck, but it's not like I don't, I never feel amazing when I put a pinball t-shirt on. I feel amazing. I feel like I have fucking superpowers and I put my loser kid's hat on because it's that fucking good. And it's my good luck hat. I wear at the tournaments now and I'm on a bit of a winning streak because of it. So there you go. Buy the loser head. It's good. Oh, win it. Win it. Win it in the tournament. So, okay. In the spirit of the Twippies, which the pre-voting was on. So, get out there and put all the nominees. They're putting that so they can do a drop down for the writing categories.
    78:54
    So, in the spirit of it, my first question, all you've got to do is email headtoheadpinball at gmail.com and tell me what you think Game of the Year is going to be. He's going to have just a whole bunch of emails saying, JP, JP. Wow. Wonka's pretty cool, Matty. Wonka is pretty freaking cool. Wonka's there.
    79:14
    There's been some interesting games this year, so I don't know whether it's going to be. Yeah, it is.
    79:22
    But there you go. All you've got to do is you've got to write in, tell me what you think the winner of Game of the Year in the Twippies will be. Email to headtoheadpinball at gmail.com. Don't forget, if you are a Patreon subscriber of $3, $3, Ryan, that's all, and more, you will get twice entry.
    79:44
    The question, you know, I'm not sure if you want to answer this, Marty, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Are you doing the twerpees this year? Or give me a break? Give me a break, yeah, okay. We're giving you a break. Because Thunderbird's not there, so we don't want to actually offend people that we like. Sorry, Mike.
    80:02
    So, there you go. Oh, by the way, Thunderbirds, the original Thunderbird pre-orders, like the people who funded this company, right, they have arrived.
    80:12
    Okay, they've got their machines. I think without the topper, I think that's still missing in action. But there is a bit of a flood on the market of very cheap Thunderbirds. So, if you're looking for the worst pinball machine ever made, according to Pinsides, but hey, it's still a pinball machine, right? Like, yeah, if you want a Pimball machine and you want to spell International Rescue, four and a half grand brand new in the box. That's Australian dollars as well, so that's like three and a half. I don't know. I'm tempted. I'm not tempted. I'm tempted.
    80:45
    Anyway. Funny. Well, Ryan, thank you so much for coming in and filling in whilst Joe and I couldn't get our times synchronized again this week. It's good to chat to you. Just pretend it wasn't because Joe wasn't available. Pretend that it's because I'm excited about Rick and Morty and I just begged you. Come on, please, Marty. Sure. Okay. Cool. And just remember, since the end of the podcast, message Kate Martin. It's C-A-I-T-E. It sounds like it's Katie Martin. It's not. It's Kate Martin. K-A-I-T-E. Sorry. Yes. I'm dyslexic. Yes. K-A-I-T-E. Message her Rick and Morty quotes. Do it right now when you're on your phone. Done. Thank you.
    81:27
    Awesome. All right. Thanks, guys. We'll speak to you again next week. Yeah. Bye.