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Tribe Multiball with Rachel and Tim, Episode 25: 1-Year Anniversary Special with Raymond Davidson

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Apr 4, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

1-year anniversary episode featuring Texas Pinball Festival winner Raymond Davidson sharing his pinball origin story.

Summary

This is the one-year anniversary episode of Tee'd Off Tribe Multiball podcast hosted by Tim Dan Lee and Rachel Risto, featuring guest Raymond Davidson, a competitive pinball player who won the Texas Pinball Festival. The episode centers on personal stories, the hosts' gratitude for the podcast community, tournament participation updates, and Raymond's origin story in pinball from his grandparents' Gottlieb Pioneer through his competitive career.

Key Claims

  • Raymond Davidson won the Texas Pinball Festival tournament

    high confidence · Tim Dan Lee and Rachel congratulate Raymond on his wins at Texas Pinball Festival; Raymond confirms it was 'quite the tournament' and mentions details about playing Dialed In and Sinbad

  • Raymond's first pinball machine experience was his grandparents' Alvin Gottlieb Pioneer (two-player version of Spirit of '76)

    high confidence · Raymond's direct account: 'I guess it would be my grandparents who had an Alvin Gottlieb Pioneer, which is the two-player version of Alvin Gottlieb Spirit of '76, which came out in 1976'

  • Raymond beat his father's high score on Pioneer at age 9 or 10

    high confidence · Raymond states: 'I would say probably nine or ten' when asked how old he was when he beat his dad's high score

  • Raymond's family ordered a Guns N' Roses machine that arrived with shattered playfield glass

    high confidence · Raymond recounts: 'the playfield glass is completely shattered all over everything and we have to refuse the shipment'

  • Raymond's father bought the actual Guns N' Roses machine from the Red Robin operator that Raymond had been playing

    high confidence · Raymond explains: 'he called the operator and basically just said...can I buy your Guns N' Roses? And he said yes. And so I ended up getting the very Guns N' Roses that I...played in those Red Robins'

  • Rachel ran the Midwest Gaming Classic Pinball Championship with ~34 days notice and is seeking donated tournament games

    high confidence · Rachel states: 'I picked up the torch to run the Midwest Gaming Classic Pinball Championship' and 'there wasn't a director for it' and 'it was about 34 days once I decided to do it'

  • Rachel competed in LAX (Louisville Arcade Pinball Expo) and placed second in a Battle of the Bells women's team tournament

    high confidence · Rachel describes: 'Tisch...ran a Battle of the Bells tournament that Friday night, which was a women's team tournament' and 'I think that we ended up coming in second'

Notable Quotes

  • “I want to say thank you, Tim Dan Lee, for being my co-host. I really appreciate you. And thank you to Drew and Scott Ian and all of the poor men and women, all the tribe folks that have come on to our show...This podcast...has meant a lot to me. I've had a lot happen to me in the past year.”

    Rachel Risto @ Early in episode (gratitude segment) — Emotional opening expressing the podcast's personal impact on Rachel over the past year

  • “Well, I didn't do very well in there [finals] but I had made the finals and that's what kept me coming back...I'm just gonna I'm gonna do it next year and from then on I don't think I've ever not qualified for like most tournaments.”

    Raymond Davidson @ Origin story segment — Demonstrates Raymond's persistence and development into a consistent tournament competitor

  • “I end up getting eight points in there which normally is enough to win but I got last on Super Sonic the Hedgehog...I had 8 points against Keith Elwin's 8 points and he does this thing that I still to this day think is a little shady he picks supersonic as the tiebreaker game.”

    Raymond Davidson @ Tournament story segment — Anecdote about competitive pinball dynamics and a controversial tiebreaker decision

  • “The problem is they were setting up for a tournament. So they had that thing jacked up. The bubble on the level was all the way to the top. I'm telling you, it had to have been about nine degrees of pitch.”

    Tim Dan Lee @ Tournament experience segment — Illustrates how tournament-level pitch setup significantly affects gameplay difficulty

  • “I was all set to go to Texas Pinball Festival...And my good buddy Drew, who I love, called me up and said, no, no, no, no, you got to come to MGC. All the tribe members are coming to MGC. You got to come to MGC. So I canceled my room.”

    Tim Dan Lee @ Tournament update segment — Sets up the humorous conflict that leads to Tim announcing his own 'tribe'

  • “Then two weeks ago, I see Drew post that he's going to Texas Pinball Festival...And then people like Amanda Hamilton are sending me pictures from Texas Pinball Festival of Drew with his arm around her and everybody having the time of their life.”

Entities

Tim Dan LeepersonRachel RistopersonRaymond DavidsonpersonDrewpersonKeith ElwinpersonScott IanpersonMidwest Gaming Classic

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Women-focused tournament initiatives gaining traction; Battle of the Bells women's team tournament at LAX with coaching element successfully executed

    medium · Rachel attended LAX where 'Tisch ran a Battle of the Bells tournament that Friday night, which was a women's team tournament...you could coach each other...it was an incredible, fun thing to do'

  • ?

    event_signal: Rachel taking over direction of Midwest Gaming Classic Pinball Championship with ~34 days notice; seeking volunteer support and donated tournament games; planning to use five-strike format from LAX tournament

    high · Rachel: 'I picked up the torch to run the Midwest Gaming Classic Pinball Championship...I realized that there wasn't a director for it...if you hear this and you're looking to come to MGC and bring a game, reach out to me...I'm totally copying the tournament style that was at LAX'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong appreciation within Tee'd Off community for podcast's role in building genuine friendships and providing positive community engagement despite personal hardships

    high · Rachel: 'I've had a lot happen to me in the past year...it's always given me something really positive and fun to look forward to...This podcast...has meant a lot to me' and Tim: 'I've gotten some really good friends out of this show'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Five-strike tournament format gaining adoption and positive reception; LAX used this format successfully, now being replicated at MGC

    medium · Rachel: 'It was so much fun with two qualifying sessions and a five-strike format for finals' at LAX, and 'I'm totally copying the tournament style that was at LAX' for MGC

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.272

0:00
Hey, Poor Man Tribe and listeners, this is Glennie Rogers, and you're listening to the Tribe Multiball Podcast with Rachel and Tim. Poor Man Tribe's the thing, that is who we are. It and Drew, they're not in this thing. So how could it go wrong? Flip away with us, to an old blockade. And then we'll learn about each other. From two pennants to another Rachel and Tim, who do we have on the show today?
0:40
Hello everyone and welcome to Tribe Multiball, episode 25. I'm Tim Lee and I'm here with my co-host, Rachel Risto. And we're here to bring you another awesome episode. This episode is going to be a really good one, Rachel. I think so. I'm pretty sure. Well, it's our anniversary episode, number one, I suppose. It is. One year. Can you believe that, Tim Lee? You haven't driven me absolutely nuts.
1:07
Not yet. My wife, Amy, found that to be amazing that you didn't kill me after a year. Well, I love Amy, and I feel for her. I can say that much after this time. So when we're done today, maybe we'll have to go give her a big hug from me. Okay. Yeah. How you feeling? How you doing? It's been a little bit since we've chit-chatted. Yeah, yeah. It's been a few weeks, and everyone will know why, because we do have a special one-year anniversary guest. But we'll get to him in a little bit. Oh, it's a him? I think it's a him, yeah. Yes, it is, absolutely. Okay, all right. So what have you been up to? Well, first of all, I want to say about the past year. I thought about writing something out, and then I didn't, and I'm just going to do it right off the cuff. I want to say thank you, Tim Lee, for being my co-host. I really appreciate you. And thank you to Drew and Ian and all of the poor men and women, all the tribe folks that have come on to our show. I really want to put this the right way. this podcast, the planning of it, the hanging out on a Friday night or Sunday morning or whatever with the different folks, the tribe has meant a lot to me. I've had a lot happen to me in the past year. So it's always given me something really positive and fun to look forward to. I love you so much, Tim Lee. And thank you to all of our listeners. Yeah, I love you too, Rachel. To everyone in the tribe who has been on and who hasn't been on, I love you. We've had a great time. I've gotten some really good friends out of this, some really, really good friends out of this show. Right, absolutely. I feel very blessed. Drew and Ian, love you both. Thank you for putting together The Tribe. Ian, thank you for asking me to put together a podcast. We didn't know what it was going to be. And Rachel, thank you so much for volunteering to be my co-host. It's been a good 24 episodes and hopefully a great 25th episode. Tim Lee sucks at pinball. There it is, folks. I finally said it. I stuttered it, but I said it. There you go.

Tim Dan Lee finished fifth out of 21-22 players in a flipper frenzy tournament

high confidence · Tim states: 'I ended up finishing fifth out of 21 or 22, so it wasn't a bad day'

  • Raymond qualified for his first tournament finals at the Northwest Pinball Show at age 16

    high confidence · Raymond recounts: 'I think I was 16 or so at the time' when discussing his first tournament and qualifying for finals

  • Raymond finished second to Keith Elwin in a tiebreaker at Northwest Pinball Show when Raymond was 18, winning multiple thousands in cash

    high confidence · Raymond describes: 'I had 8 points against Keith Elwin's 8 points' and they played a tiebreaker, and 'It was like a couple thousand dollars just for second'

    • Tim Dan Lee @ Humor/guest introduction segment — Explains the comedic motivation for introducing Raymond as a new 'tribe member'

  • “I ended up getting the very Guns N' Roses that I...played in those Red Robins. And so that's the one game we had in our house basically growing up was Guns N' Roses.”

    Raymond Davidson @ Origin story - childhood machines — Personal connection to early gaming experiences; acquisition of the specific machine Raymond had played on location

  • “I pump and I dump. And I spend probably more than the amount of money I won at Northwest. Like it was a couple thousand dollars in there entries that still didn't qualify me. And that was like another wake up call.”

    Raymond Davidson @ Competitive development segment — Illustrates the financial investment and competitive learning curve in tournament pinball

  • “I've had a great time. I've gotten some really good friends out of this, some really, really good friends out of this show.”

    Tim Dan Lee @ Anniversary gratitude segment — Emphasizes the community-building aspect of the podcast

  • “It's so vicious where you just are trying to dodge the Queen of Spades. And then of course you end up getting it somehow, some way, somehow you get it and you're just like oh, it's so frustrating. But it just keeps you engaged.”

    Raymond Davidson (discussing Hearts card game) @ Board games digression — Shows Raymond's appreciation for strategic games with risk/reward mechanics, which relates to his pinball approach

    • event
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Louisville Arcade Pinball Expo (LAX)event
    Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
    Tee'd Off Tribe Multiballorganization
    Northwest Pinball Showevent
    Ladies Fliporganization
    Penn State Pinball Leagueorganization
    Amanda Hamiltonperson
    Loser Kid Pinball Podcastorganization
    Matt McCartyperson
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Terminator 2game
    Dialed Ingame
    Sinbadgame
    The Simpsons Pinball Partygame
    Rushgame

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival established as significant tournament venue with Twitch streaming and YouTube archival; streaming infrastructure in place

    high · Raymond: 'they follow the top group in both the classics and the main...you can watch me as much as you can stand me...they're up on YouTube now, Wormhole Pinball...you can catch them on Twitch right now'

  • ?

    community_signal: Raymond Davidson emerging as competitive tournament player moving through IFPA ranks; consistent qualifier after initial success at age 16

    high · Raymond: 'from then on I don't think I've ever not qualified for like most tournaments' after his initial qualifying performance; he invested significant money ($2000+) in Papa World Championships pursuit

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Multiple tournament formats in rotation at same venue (flipper frenzy with coaching/heckling elements, IFPA sanctioned tournaments); venues experimenting with engagement mechanics

    medium · Tim: 'I played in a two-and-a-half-hour flipper frenzy...an IFPA [tournament] where you could either coach people during it or you could heckle them and I chose to heckle a little bit'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pittsburgh pinball scene (Helicon arcade) hosting significant tournaments with top-tier competitive players; tournament-level machine setup (9+ degree pitch) in regular use

    medium · Tim: 'I went to Helicon in Pittsburgh...they had a really big tournament...they have some good players in the Pittsburgh Pinball League...they had that thing jacked up...had to have been about nine degrees of pitch'

    • 3:10
    So my pinball news. A few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to go to LAX, which is the Louisville Arcade Expo. I had a great time. I played in the main tournament. I also played in Tisch. You know our tribe gal, Tisch. Me too. She ran a Battle of the Bells tournament that Friday night, which was a women's team tournament. It was an incredible, fun thing to do because you got to coach each other. the other ladies and I got randomly paired with Amanda Dodd out of I believe she's out in Nashville and then Deborah Tallman who's out in Columbus Ohio it was a lot of fun I think that we ended up coming in second nice right um I played okay the rest of the weekend I had a fun time at rec bar had a really fun tournament that was IFPA where you could either coach people during it or you could heckle them and I chose to heckle a little bit that's very hard I would love that Oh, it was hard. It was very hard for me as a Midwestern girl to say things to try to distract a player. But I had a fun time with it, and I played pretty good. It was a really fun weekend. Got to see other folks that have come up to District 82 for other tournaments in that area. So it was really cool to come, you know, hang out in their local joints. I also got to see Dan Donnell, too. I don't know if it's Donnell or Donnell. But anyways, my buddy Dan, too, our tribe member as well, was on the show. Yeah. Let's see. In other news, Ladies Flip stuff goes on. Check out the Facebook page. I also want to talk about Midwest Gaming Classic. I picked up the torch to run the Midwest Gaming Classic Pinball Championship.
    4:52
    I'm a little terrified. I'm also excited. But I realized that there wasn't a director for it, And I figured, well, I can organize things. I do that at other people's houses all the time. So it's just like anything else. And I bug my buddy, Matt McCarty, to tournament direct it. And I'll try to assist him as much as I can. And I've reached out. I have volunteers. I have several games, but not as many as I need. So if you hear this and you're looking to come to MGC and bring a game, reach out to me. Beggars can't be choosers. And I'm happy to take a game that you think might be a good tournament one. Okay. Need some games, folks. Yeah, need some games. But I think that we'll all snap together in the next week or two. We'll see what happens. But it's kind of fun trying to plan a big event in about 30 days. I think it was about 34 days once I decided to do it. I'm glad I said yes to it. So it will be a fun adventure. All the planning and hard work will definitely pay off because it will be a really fun day, all in one day. And I'm totally copying the tournament style that was at LAX because it was so much fun with two qualifying sessions and a five-strike, fair-strike format for finals. A lot of Fs there. And it will definitely be fun. And if you're at MGC and you see me there, please stop by on Saturday in the tournament area and say hey. I would love to see you. I will be there, and I will say hey to you for sure. I know. I'm very excited to see you and Amy Lee too and the rest of the tribe, and hopefully we'll have a little fun meetup maybe that Friday night, see how things roll. Yep, awesome. Well, thank you from the entire pinball community just for taking that on. You'll do great. You've put together some awesome tournaments so far. They've had a tournament there forever, and MGC deserves to have that. And the community has given me so much as a person. Like I said before, the past year, so many good things have happened to me because of pinball that I don't want to be trite here, but it's given me joy, and I figure this is a very easy way to give back to the community and give my time. Awesome. So happy to do it. Awesome. Okay. Thanks.
    6:59
    That's it. What about you? What's your news? Not a lot going on. I went to Helicon in Pittsburgh, and I played Rush, and I loved it. Oh, yeah. I really enjoyed it. I think I sent you messages. I got like 900 million on it and like 800 million. I don't know if that's a good score, but when you're like one of the first few people to play it, you get the GC, you're happy. And so I played it, and then I took Amy back next week to play it. But you're going to get a kick out of this. The problem is they were setting up for a tournament. So they had that thing jacked up. The bubble on the level was all the way to the top. I'm telling you, it had to have been about nine is a pitch. And the ball was just like boom, boom, boom, right down the middle. And so I plunged it again. Like I don't think I scored over like 80 million. And Amy played and she's like boom, boom, boom, right down the middle. And I'm like, what's going on here? And they said, yeah, we're set up for a tournament. So it was set up very hard on purpose because they had a pretty big tournament. They have some good players in the Pittsburgh Pinball League. So I'm like, I got to go back down because I really did enjoy it when it's more my style. But that was funny. I immediately thought of you just because of how they set it up. But I wasn't upset once they told me why they had it set up that way. I'm like, okay, there's a tournament with some really good players. You got to make the machines difficult. So that was a lot of fun. I'm glad that you enjoyed Rush. I really liked it as well. Did you nudge? I did nudge. Okay. Because I know sometimes you do nudge, but you're not like, you know, sometimes you have to give it a little bit more, what's a coming to go? I don't know what else to say. Yeah. But you have to give it a little bit more. Yeah, I've been nudging. I've been nudging more. Good. I always nudge. Just like you said, I don't nudge a lot. But I'm not a big Rush fan. I don't dislike their music. I don't, you know, but I don't go out of my way to listen to it. But it didn't bother me. I kind of enjoyed it playing. I knew all the songs. So I played in another tournament the next week, and it was a two-and-a-half-hour flipper frenzy.
    8:59
    And I was in first place for a good majority of the time. And this is embarrassing, but I'm going to tell everyone. I lost in a game of Simpsons Pinball Party $2 million to $1.5 million. It is the worst game of pinball I have ever played in my life. I had a house ball, and then I hit those little drops on the right for whatever the multi-ball is on the right side. Itchy and scratchy. Itchy and scratchy, and that's all I hit, and then it went right down the middle, and the guy I was playing played terrible, and he only got two million. All I had to do was keep the ball in play for like a minute, and for some reason in my little brain, I decided I'm going to go for itchy and scratchy, and I bricked it, and it went right down the middle. I even tried to slide the machine, and I looked up, and my buddy that was with me was like, it's hard to get $1.5 million on Simpsons, and it's even harder, he said, to lose to somebody that got $2 million. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I was going to say that sounds like, to me, that's how I play on the Simpsons at District 82. I cannot have a good game on that game, no matter how hard I practice on it. That garage does not like me. Nothing likes me. none of the shots like me on that game but uh i don't know it was terrible and then i played transformers and i got all the balls ready i needed to lock one more ball on ball one so i got three in megatron it was a four ball lock and i bricked it and drained but then on the next two balls i nudged a little too hard i tilted out the next two balls and lost oh i'm surprised i'm actually surprised by that yeah so anyway i ended up finishing fifth out of 21 or 22 so it wasn't a bad day. I had a lot of fun. Met some new friends.
    10:45
    The only other thing I have, this is a surprise for you. The Penn State Pinball League has asked me to hold either a tournament or a roaming league night at my house. Awesome. Do it, Tim. Do it. Are you going to do it? I said yes. Because of you.
    11:00
    Operator friend Mike has offered to drop off four to six games in my garage. Amazing. To get the collection up. I'm going to host a tournament or a league night. I don't know which one. Well, you reach out with any questions because I've organized one or two of them now. So I can at least help you with that.
    11:18
    You've heard. Yep. That's the word. All right. Were you ready to get to our guests? I definitely am if you are. Okay. I have to tell a story as to why we have this guest. Go on, Tim. Tell me a story. Okay. So I'm going to be honest. Anybody that's listened to the Poor Man podcast or our show knows that Drew and I get along really well, but I'm constantly picking on him. But Drew did something that really displeased me over the last few weeks. Oh. Yeah. I was all set to go to TPF.
    11:51
    Okay. And my good buddy Drew, who I love, called me up and said, no, no, no, no, you got to come to MGC. All the tribe members are coming to MGC. You got to come to MGC. So I canceled my room. I canceled everything. And I told Amy, we're going to MGC. And? Then two weeks ago, I see Drew post that he's going to TPF.
    12:14
    What? Yeah, and I called him up and I'm like, dude, you told me not to go to TPF. Everybody was going to MGC. He was like, oh, it just happened that way and it just worked out. I didn't do it on purpose. And then people like Amanda Hamilton are sending me pictures doing TPF of Drew with his arm around her and everybody having the time of their life. And they had their Tim Lee sucks at pinball shirts on.
    12:42
    So anyways, I decided I've had enough and I'm starting my own tribe. You are? What? Absolutely, yep. Wait, I'm a little confused by that. You're going to start your own tribe. Yep, you're invited. How's that going to affect our – well, do I get to be tribe member number one or do we start with letters, tribe member A? Yeah, you're tribe member – A. your your tribe letter a okay cool so do you want to meet tribe letter b for sure okay so i'm going all out for this next tribe member i don't even know if he wants to be a tribe member he doesn't even know about this but okay all right anyways welcome to the show new tribe member letter b Raymond Davidson. Hello, Raymond.
    13:29
    Hey, Raymond. How you doing? Hello. I'm doing good. Good. Did you know you were going to be a new tribe member? No, I didn't. I thought it was reserved. You had to be indoctrinated into the special poor man's pinball tribe, go through some ceremonies and sacrifice a goat. I didn't know. Just by being on this podcast. This is different. Just by being on Tribe Multiball, you can get into the Tim Lee tribe. And with a nice number, or I should say letter as well.
    14:01
    So there you go, Drew. Drew sucks at pinball. Well, I guess that evens it out for the show. Congratulations on your wins at TPF. Yes, congrats. Thank you. Yeah, it was quite the tournament. Tell me a little bit about it. I didn't get an opportunity to watch at all. What was your best game maybe in the classics? The classics? Well, my favorite game in the classics is the Sinbad they have there. Really? Because I've actually owned a Sinbad, and I've always loved that game. Because it's so straightforward and simple, but it does everything to throw you off with its four flippers and the targets right in your face. So as soon as you hit down some targets, you're staring at these big rubber banks that just you don't want to hit. But you've got to hit stuff in a specific order. and when you pull it off, it's such a super fun game. Yeah, I'm trying to think if I had any real big blow-up games. I think the Rolling Stones, I got in a groove pretty well on it where I was able to hit that. There's like one shot in the game that matters and I was able to hit that over and over again. And then on the main division, it was Dialed In that I rode to victory. I got like a million on it every time I played. So I was untouchable on that Dialed In. People were asking like, why didn't you pick the Rush Premium? I'm like, well, I was more consistent on the dialed in, you know. Was it on stream? Yeah, they follow the top group in both the classics and the main. And since I was the number one seed, you can watch me as much as you can stand me.
    15:33
    Pretty much every round. No, I definitely want to go back and watch the dialed in, because that's a game I'm fairly unfamiliar with, as well as Sinbad. I've never played that game. So that would be entertaining to go back and watch that and see what you're talking about. Yeah, I believe they're up on YouTube now, Wormhole Pinball. So when the Twitch FODs go away, you can still catch them there. So you can catch them on Twitch right now for however two weeks until they go away, or you can catch them on YouTube. Okay. Well, thank you. Awesome. Thank you so much. Now, Raymond, all jokes aside, we wanted to have on somebody outside the tribe and somebody, a pinball celebrity on for our one-year anniversary. So thank you for coming on. And we're the second sloppiest show on the internet, so we might not dive into a whole lot of stern talk. We want to get to know kind of Raymond and who Raymond is. And I know you talked about this a little bit on the Loser Kid Pinball podcast. Josh Rupp and I are pretty good friends, and I listen to all his shows. But would you mind telling me – we always like to ask our tribe members, what is your origin story? How did you get into pinball? Well, I mean, I guess it would be my grandparents who had a Gottlieb Pioneer, which is the two-player version of Gottlieb Spirit of 76, which came out in 1976. And basically, you know, I was just a couple years old or however old I was, enough to just barely see above the glass. Although I think I used a stepstool, you know, to see better. but my dad would whenever I visited grandma and grandpa he'd be like this is the game that me and my friends would play you know in my parents basement let me show you it's pinball like this is what you do and and I just I don't know I just kept wanting to play it more and more and so it's something to look forward to every time I went to grandma's house you know and kids would be in the pool or playing the super nintendo and I would be glued to the uh the pioneer trying to beat my dad's high score which I eventually did and he he couldn't believe it he's like I thought nobody would ever beat my high score how old were you oh i don't know um i would say probably nine or ten okay you know okay okay but that's kind of where i got introduced to it and then i just sought it out whenever i found it at a restaurant pizza parlor or red robin or something and i learned you could get free games and this was the same time i was discovering the internet and how if you ever have a question, you just look it up on the Internet and it's there. And so I found all these resources of rule sheets. And I'm big into like card games and board games. Like my favorite, you know, card game is Magic the Gathering, which is very heavy in rules. And so I love like learning rules and figuring out how things work, you know, reading manuals for rules. And I saw they were all available online for pinball games. and so I was just reading through them and learning them and was super excited to try them out next time I went to the restaurant or whatnot. Okay, let me ask you a question there before we go on. So Magic the Gathering is big in my house. I don't play it because my kids won't let me in their mean, but we have a lot of kids come over and they have these little tournaments and so forth, but I always want them to play board games with me and they never want to play board games. So what's your favorite board game? I like an old game called Samurai Sword Shogun from a very long time ago in the 80s in Axis and Allies. But what's your favorite board game? Man, it's a shame they won't let you play Magic with them.
    19:12
    Well, real quick, they're afraid I'm going to go out and buy like a $1,000 deck just to win, and I would do that. I have no doubt in my mind. Yeah, yeah. I have no doubt in my mind I would do that. They know how much you want to avoid having a Tim Lee sucks at magic shirt. So if you do anything to avoid.
    19:33
    But yeah, no, as far as board games, well, it's not a board game, but my favorite card game is hearts. I don't know if you've played hearts. Yeah. I love hearts too. That is probably my second favorite card game. Probably. Yeah. It's just, it's so vicious where you just are trying to dodge the queen of spades. And then of course you end up getting it somehow, some way, somehow you get it and you're just like oh it's so frustrating but it just keeps you addicted and then i'd play with my friends all the time it's a perfect game if you have four people absolutely i'm gonna make a comment about the game hearts right there because i don't play that game sometimes you play the game like that where you want you don't want to collect the queen but sometimes you want to collect them all collect them all and if you've oh yeah that's the best part that yeah that extra rule i love that hand where you get dealt the hand you've got the queen and all these other great high ace cards or whatever else. I'm like, I'm just going to smear them all. I'm just shooting them. And then somebody somehow takes a heart and you're stuck with 25 and you're like, oh.
    20:31
    At least I tried. Risk over reward. Yeah. No, it's super fun trying to go for that. That's why I love that game. As far as board games, you know, it's hard to pick a favorite board game, but I know one of the early board games I got into was Risk, you know, the global domination game with the dice we play that here yep yeah i always i i i really like that game and then also just old school monopoly like it gets a bad rap but like it's actually a fun game if you play it with people that also play it like so you trade you know you bargain and you actually you know try to end the game instead of just going around in circles like you actually it's just it's i think it's underrated i think it's a bad rap but i actually I like Monopoly it's fun I liked it too until I played the pinball machine and then I love the pinball machine that's why I said that because you said in an earlier episode you loved Monopoly and I don't like the board game at all but maybe now I haven't played it in over 20 years so maybe now playing it that ages me and dates me I hate saying things like that don't let me ever say things like that again Tim but I haven't played that game in a very long time so maybe I need to sit down and play it again and give it a second whirl yeah okay so we're the second sloppiest show on the internet and we like to go down rabbit holes and so back to grandma's house where did it go from there pizza parlors getting free games so i was growing up in yakima washington which is like this town in the middle of the state pretty small okay and they had a red robin and i could ride my bike there and they had a black rose of all things and i i don't know i really thought it was cool with like the canon and everything and and i learned how to get free games and lo and behold a couple years later when we moved to muckleteo in uh the western part of washington my dad was like i'm gonna get you a pinball machine what should we get i'm like well that black rose is really fun and so we order this Black Rose from this website It just like I don know some website that overcharges for all their pinball machines which is hilarious because now you would kill to get at any of those prices that they were listed right and so we ordered this black rose and it arrives and the playful glass is completely shattered over everything and we have to refuse the shipment so we're super bummed but my dad has the bright idea to just call the um well basically he was going to yakima for work still sometimes and next but when he was in town he took note at at the sticker on it and called the operator and basically just said hey can i buy your black rose and he said yes and so i ended up getting the very black rose that i uh that i played in those red robins and so that's that's the one game we had in our house basically growing up was uh black rose and yeah and so then you know Of course, I wasn't satisfied with just Black Rose. So living in Munkleteo, I was down the road from this place, a go-karting place, and they had a Terminator 2. And so every day, not every day, but most days after school, if I wasn't doing anything, I'd ride my bike to play that Terminator 2. And I learned that that game, it doesn't give anything away for free. You have to deliberately aim at the skull twice, survive the first one. And, you know, if you drain, it blocks you on the next ball. You still have to hit it twice. So that's like the first barrier. And then once you get it in the skull, you got to, you know, learn how to use the cannon. And then once you're in multi-ball, you actually don't get any jackpots unless you can re-lock two balls, like one in the skull and one somewhere else. So it was just like I was getting my butt whooped by it, but it was the only game there. And I'm like, well, I need to figure out how to play this game. And I think that really helped me learn control moves and just focus because there was no way to just flail for points on that game. Like you have to get the balls locked in the way that the game wants you to get your double jackpot, get your super jackpot, that sort of thing. And so that's kind of just how I kept getting good was seeking out games on location and getting myself to them. But then as far as competitions, the first competition was the – well, all this time I'm under 21, so I can't go to any bars. And I'm just begging to play pinball machines. And I hear there's this show, the Northwest Pinball Show. I'm like, I got to go to this. Dad, can we go to this? We go to it, and they have a tournament. And they're like, do you want to sign up for the tournament? I'm like, yeah. They're like, do you want novice or open division? I'm like, well, what's the difference? They're like, well, the Open Division, you'll get world ranking points, but anybody can play in it. And the novice is, like, not very much prize, but, you know, if you don't want to go against everyone else, you can play in the novice tournament. And what do you think I did? You went into the Open Tournament. Yep. Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, so I was like, you know what? I want to try myself against the best. I want those ranking points. That sounds cool. Yeah. Were you, like, 19 or 20? To me, that sounds like really cool. I get an international thing. That's neat. Yeah, I think I was 16 or so at the time. Oh, gosh. Even younger. Still pretty young. Goodness. Yeah. And so I got hooked. Yeah, I mean, if you look at my profile, my first event was that tournament. So, yeah, I think it says I've been active for however many years. Time flies, man. Nice. I'll have to scope it out. So how did that tournament thing work out for you then? Are you still ranked? i know right i had no idea how how much it would affect my life and like take me places and buy me pinball machines and and and stuff and it's it's crazy but yeah that first tournament i ended up i think i qualified for finals which was crazy because my my dad couldn't qualify he was like this is too hard um but you you somehow qualified and then i didn't do very well in the finals but i had made the finals and that's what kept me coming back and so the next year i i played in it but by the time the next year happened word is word had gotten out about this northwest pinball show and so that's when all the big guns showed up that's when heath elwyn was there neil schatz who used to play all the time was there and i i missed qualifying and it was very devastating but I was just like well hey there's there's next year I'm just gonna I'm gonna do it next year and from then on I don't think I've ever not qualified for like most tournaments and it's just sort of well except for for one tournament which is actually a good segue where when I was 18 the Northwest Show tournament I had my best performance ever I made it to the final four but I had to go against this Keith Elwin guy. I'm 18 years old and I don't really know much about what I'm doing. We're playing Jackpot and I'm just spamming the visor like a madman. People are just like, how are you surviving? I'm like, I don't know. I'm just flipping. I'm flipping, man.
    27:45
    And so I end up getting eight points in the three games which normally is enough to win but I got last on Super Sonic which I don't know if you've played much supersonic if you don't know exactly what you're doing that game doesn't give many points away either and I got last on it and so I had 8 points against Keith Elwin's 8 points and he does this thing that I still to this day think is a little shady he picks supersonic as the tiebreaker game and so I have to go back and play supersonic and of course I failed miserably and so I get second though and they had these bricks of cash, like actual bricks of one and two dollar bills and giant bricks. Yes. That's funny. As the cash prize? Because all those singles are two dollar bills? Yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. It was great. I was handing out two dollar bills to my friends. They thought it was so cool. I might have to do that. That's so funny. Yeah, it was great. And so that money that I won, because it was a substantial prize pool. It was like a couple thousand dollars just for second. And I used that to fund my trip to the Papa World Championships for the first time. And so that summer, or maybe the next summer, I go to the Papa World Championships. And, of course, I go straight for the A Division, right? Because I think I'm hot stuff. And I, no kidding, I pump and I dump. And I spend probably more than the amount of money I won at Northwest. Like it was a couple thousand dollars in entries that still didn't qualify me. And that was like another wake up call. Like it was just like, oh, my God, I I guess I'm not quite as good as I as I thought. And so I have a lot to learn. Yeah. And but, you know, I then I did the same thing where I was like, you know what? This trip to Pittsburgh, I think I can swing it again next year. And you know what? I'm going to qualify next year. And I did. And so that was that was my that was a cool experience, like going to Papa and seeing like how tough it is and what you got to do, because also my mental state. That was a good a good way to teach me how to stay stay calm, because that format where you have to get five good games in a row, you know, I would I'd have a bad first game and I would say, like, screw it. And I get all mad. And so now I've wasted the rest of my entry, basically. Right, sir. And so that kind of helped me teach me that, like, you know what, even if you have a bad game, it's okay. You can average it out with the other games. There's always – yeah. And, yeah, it was just a cool experience. And from then on, I kind of just blew up. Like, I just kept going to more and more things exponentially because I had turned 21 at that point. And so then I could go to all the bars that had tournaments. and then I was starting to, you know, I got my software job, which was paying like a career salary, so now I could actually afford to fly on my own to places. And so then that caused me to be able to just go to even more tournaments and get even more experience, and it just kind of snowballed. I do have one question. Do you have, kind of out of nowhere, but talking a little bit about your family, do you have siblings and do they play pinball? I have a sister who right now is in the Austin, Texas area for school. Okay. And she's actually really good, but she just doesn't, I don't know, she's like, whatever. Okay. She doesn't have any real urge to try to compete or anything. but I've seen her play and I'm like watching her and she's doing stuff. That's just like, you know, dead passes and, and even some like drop catching and aiming at stuff and, and understand core concepts. And I'm just like, Jill, where did you like, how did you, whoa, what's going on? And she's like, I'm just, I just am doing what you do.
    31:45
    I love that. I know. I was like, so I was like, oh, that's so cool. Is she older or younger? She's five years younger than me. Okay. I'm a middle child. I'm just always curious, like, ages of folks is all. Anyways. Were you at Pinberg in 2019 when they kicked me out, and were you one of the people that ushered me out?
    32:10
    Pinberg 2019. Yeah, I assume I was there. That was in the convention center, right? Yeah, yeah. I won't tell the story. I told that story in a past episode, but, yeah, I was thrown out. So anyways, not for doing anything mean, just for being a dummy. So I was just – the short story is I was so excited, and I just got into pinball. I didn't realize the gravity of the situation, so I kept playing the games on the tournament floor. And I kept playing – While the tournament was going on. No, I did that the first time, and then they told me about it. But I kept sneaking in during the breaks, and finally they had enough, and they're like, you got to go. But they did say I could come back tomorrow.
    32:47
    You're just so eager to play more pinball. Yeah, he was. Yeah. And another thing I would like to thank you for, one day I got a call from Glenn, and Glenn said, Drew's about to play in his first tournament, and he's about to play Ray Day. So we all got on from the tribe, and we all got to watch you beat Drew publicly on Twitch, and I was very grateful for that because we have a mutual opponent. I beat Drew myself, and you beat Drew. So that made my day. And, of course, we were harassing him. We were sending him texts and just belittling him because that's what we do, and we love Drew. So thank you for – Yeah, I think that's, like, the only time I've really met Drew, like, face-to-face because I remember that game. He, like, introduced himself, and we were on the screen, and we were having a good time. It was a fun time for sure. Now, Tim Lee here claims that he can beat anybody at pinball, including you, including Keith Elwin, including probably Tom Graff. including me, and he did beat me at Spider-Man. But Tim, any thoughts about that? Or why are you so confident that you think you can beat, you know,
    33:53
    because Raymond might be the best pinball player in the world. Now, I have said in the past that, yes, absolutely, there could be also this person that plays at home, doesn't go anywhere, and they're a terrific pinball player, and they just don't have a worldwide ranking. Is that you, Tim Lee? That may not be me. I was hoping you wouldn't bring this up. I may have said that I could beat you, Raymond. I may have said I could beat Keith. But here's my theory. Listen to me. Have you ever beat me, Raymond? I haven't. I don't know if I've played you. No, you haven't. So how does the world know that I'm not going to beat you and Keith and Tom and everybody else? I'm a very confident man. You can, though. That's what's cool about pinball. It's like if you have a good game and the other person doesn't have a good game, then you can beat anyone at anything, really, at any time. Well, do you know – I think his name is AK from Pittsburgh. I think he's like 13th. He's in the top 20. He may have beat me by 7 billion points on Batman 66, so yeah, I probably wouldn't win. But I'm so confident that I can beat you. If you come to MGC or the next tournament we're at, we will play a best-of-five series. And for every game you beat me, I will donate, we'll say, 30 or 40 bucks to Rachel's Women's Flip Wisconsin. Sure. Next – because she donates money. Well, the host picks a charity, and you donate money to a charity of their choice. So, Raymond, I'll take your best of five, and for, we'll say, $30, every game you beat me, I will donate $30 to Women's Flip Wisconsin. Ladies Flip Wisconsin. Close enough. What did I say? All right. Women's Flip, but it's all the same difference. Ladies Flip Wisconsin. Sounds fun. You're on. That's the challenge. I'm expecting to pay out $0, Rachel.
    35:40
    I mean, you'd only have to win three games as long as you do them in a row. Yeah, see? We've got to play all five, though, because if you beat me five, Rachel gets $150. Oh, okay. So not a best of five, just five games. Five games, period, I guess. Five games, period. Yeah, yeah. Tim Lee likes to make up his own rules as he goes along. It's me and life. We roll with it. It's me and life. And we'll get all the tribe members to surround us, and it won't be pretty for you, sir. We'll take bets, probably. We'll probably take bets like a little bookie, you know. We'll see. That would be fun. I would love that. I guarantee they would bet on it, and they would probably throw in more money for how bad he beats me. Probably. No, but you're right. We do the little charity event. Actually, the next one I'm doing on April 3rd, which is coming up, will probably air this by then. But the side game is for a greyhound rescue in Wisconsin. It's Greyhound Pets of America, the Wisconsin chapter that we get to support. So I'm really excited about that. And actually the game that's being used as the side game for that little charity side game, it's actually a Greyhound re-theme. And I can't tell you the game that was skinned. I will have to figure it out. But it is really neat. I did share it on my ladies' flip page. You have to send me pictures because we have a rescue Greyhound. Yes, I will. Yeah. So very excited. And there will be a Greyhound there too beforehand. His name is Dude, and I can't wait to meet him. So that will be exciting. Anyway. Oh, yeah. That was Amy's dream to rescue a greyhound, and we did it probably four or five years ago, and we love our dog. Okay, Raymond, Raymond probably thinks I'm a jerk now. I like to joke around, but I do want to take you on. The challenge is out there. Raymond, I'm a former software engineer, and I know you're a software engineer. Do you mind if I ask you just a couple of little questions? I won't geek out too much, but I've asked a couple of the stern software engineers in the reveal streams, and I never got an answer. But I have this question, and when it comes to software development in pinball machines, like in my world, everybody follows a process. It's either Agile or it's Waterfall or Agile where you're making epics and those are just breaking out stories on how the game works. At a high level, how do you do that in pinball? Is there like a process or is it just sort of an iterative thing where you kind of build the game as you go along? Because you kind of got to wait till the whitewood is done, right? Yeah, I mean, there's various levels where, you know, you'll have the macro view of before you even write any code, you're doing kind of design of the game where you're like thinking because you got to match the inserts on the play field, right? The play field gets made before you do the code. So you kind of look and work with the designer on the play field and sort of, you know, map out where the different features are going to be, what the modes are going to be, the multi balls. So you kind of have it all in your head and you write it all down. And then as you're, you know, this release cycle, we're going to focus on this set of things. So you're not going to start focusing on the wizard mode right away, right? So there is an order that you kind of attack things. Sure. And then within the thing that you're attacking, you kind of do a smaller version of it, or at least I do, where it's like, okay, my task this week is, you know, this certain multiball. Okay. So I kind of think and I write out, like, what are some cool ideas? What are some good progressions? And once I kind of think about them, write them down, I'll start coding. and oftentimes what happens is you'll run into a thing where as you're coding it's going to demand an answer to a question that you didn't ask and then and then you're like oh crap yeah what do i do there yep and and so then you kind of adapt a little bit or you you kind of have another planning spot where you sit down you're like okay well there's this particular set of problems how do i work this in oh i could do this and you know it's a aha eureka moment and then you start coding again so it kind of goes in that at least for me kind of goes in that that wave of of like thinking and then coding sure and then of course in between that is actually playing and testing and and seeing how it is because there's times sometimes i'll i'll i'll do everything right where i think it i code it beautifully but then when i play it i'm like it's not actually that fun like better than i it's just and so then i'll be like well what would be fun and then you know i'll i'll change it up and and and do it again until i'm until i'm like yeah that that feels good sure it's kind of an iterative process where you kind of take a concept you refine it and then you continue to refine it until you or throw it out if you really don't like it until you have what you want okay so i like that you want to find it fun they're not looking to find it challenging or hard or anything like that that it's a fun fact that's driving that i think that's interesting let me ask that question rachel and i talked about this so i know i joked around that i can beat you and i'd love to play you but honestly i am i'm an average pinball player so when you approach a game how do you like how do you make a game that's you know meant to be played by keith elwynn or mortals like myself and Drew who, you know, we don't want to have a house ball every time or, you know, we want to play for more than 20 seconds. You know, I get it, the concept engineer, but from a coding perspective, is that in your mind when you step up to a game, just all the different levels of play? Yeah, I mean, it's luckily with software, we have so many knobs we can turn for like, all right, how difficult is it for you to get something the first time? and then after that, how much more difficult does it make it the next time? And I might start with, oh, it takes eight hits to start a multiball, and then the next time it'll take eight more hits. And then I'll find that, well, that works when someone's having a pretty good game, but if nobody can get it going in the first place, they're never even going to see it the first time. So maybe make it four hits for the first multiball and then maybe plus ten hits for the next multiball. so you kind of yeah you you basically you try to do both if you can where you make it kind of easy to what they call close to the start button right where a lot of cool stuff will happen up front but then you then you can push stuff back and and kind of add more layers behind it and it's it's tough to do because sometimes you think you have the balance right and then you find out oh wait this is just way too easy like everything's for free and you actually could see that with uh with rush where the first couple software revisions uh people i mean people love the game i love the game um it was fun uh but we just found it was almost too easy to just keep chaining multi-balls together and and just going and going and going uh so we you know we went a little too far in the close to the start button but it's really scary because if you if you take that away a lot of people are going to play the game get two million and hate it so it's it's really tough to to try to dial that in right yeah close to the start button i've never heard that before what that's such a awesome term thanks for that yeah that's a great term now you need to have those easy modes for drew he needs a one hit to start a multi-ball maybe two you know because drew sucks at pinball He really does.
    43:28
    Tim's not much better. Yeah, so that would be tough. That's the one thing I thought about when I was trying to prep for the interview. It would be really difficult for me as a software engineer to make something to satisfy the competitive players and also the novice players. My daughter and my sons, they've been playing pinball for a couple of years, but they still – they like the close to the start button easy. I got one more software question for you, and you don't have to tell me. I don't want to, like I said, I don't want to give out any industry secrets, but how in the world do you test a pinball machine? Like quality assurance, do people just play it, or are you running it through the software on your computer and trying to hit all the different scenarios? Yeah, I mean, we have the glass on and glass off testing. So when I'm developing something, the glass is off so that I can get to the thing quickly and see if what I did is working. but then kind of once enough has been done to kind of package a feature now it's it's like a glass on testing where it's like okay now just play the game and kind of look out for things as you're playing it and it's like oh that was weird you know because oftentimes with the glass off testing you won't account for how people got to what you're doing because if you're doing it glass off you're going directly as quick as you can to whatever thing you're testing whereas glass on, by the nature of pinball, it could go in any order. You could have other stuff running, you know, whatever. So you gotta do both, for sure. Now, do you then turn it over to somebody else to test your game, or do you test each other's, you know, code? Yeah, we have some, like, private beta testers who can, who that's all they do, is just test the games, but also we test our own games where it like okay we have a release coming up you know hold the code we just gonna play for this next day or two and if you find something then fix it that sort of thing So yeah, all types of game testing because you never know what you'll find unless you actually play it. Right. Yeah. All right. That's all the software questions I have. I could go on, but I just wanted to ask a few that I was always curious about because I've never seen the process. obviously as a former software engineer i've been involved in many software development projects but never a game or anything that cool so thank you for that thank you i appreciate it after you've been working with pinball all day do you still come home and flip on a beautiful beatles game you have sitting there behind you or do you still play every day for fun yeah i mean I still play probably a game or two a day or every other day.
    46:15
    You'll be bored and you'll be like, well, it's too cold and windy to go for a walk, but I want to do something that technically counts as exercise or moving. Yeah, man. Well, I like to do my pinball aerobics half the time when I dance, so I definitely get my – I do pinball cardio intervals when I'm playing because like, you know, for a minute I'm standing there playing and kicking my legs and bouncing around and then I stop and I wait for three other people to play and then I do it again for like another minute. So I really think there's something behind that. Like there's like, you know, aerobic intervals you can do with pinball. It's going to be the new thing I'm going to market. No, I'm just kidding. But it is, it's an active thing. I would like to say to my buddy, Justin, I told you pinball is exercise. You heard it here from the number one ranked player in the world. He's out playing hockey today. He loves pinball. But I told you, Justin, pinball is exercise. Yeah, for sure is. And not just for your body, but for your brain. I find that I don't like feeling bored either, Raymond. I like to be able to have my – I think that's what pinball brings a big part of, is it's something you can just kind of keep flipping it around. Especially for me, I'm still rookie Rachel in terms of, like, learning rules and the designers and all the fancy things and games and so forth and learning terminology uh but for me i really like that there's so much in there you can delve into and it's usually pretty straightforward to understand there's so many great pinball videos and twitch channels and all the other stuff out there content wise i got away from me i don't know that's the one white claw that i've had we didn't we didn't even ask that what are you drinking today tim lee oh yeah great question i am drinking guess what fireball and coke no way yep yep you ever drank in that before every show except for one or two how about you ray what are you drinking i've got this uh lovely two-town cider house bright cider it's in the bright green can and uh it's kind of hard to find but apparently it's in the pacific northwest and then also in the chicago area which is convenient because that's where i'm from that's where i moved to so it followed me that's great nice nice i do like a cider too there's actually a black cherry cider out there like quite a bit uh i do have another question because i and now because i'm more of the competitive player obviously than tim is so i have a couple of questions that i've been thinking about as well first because it is a lot i think balancing the work and balancing the life and balancing the pinball play what do you love about it that just kind of keeps bringing you back is it the joy of the sound of a spinner on meteor or what is it that that you love that you know it just sucks you back in everything i mean it's both the uh the competitive side of wanting to improve and and win as many tournaments as i can just because it you know it's it's like it's fun to oh today you know i've i've never been i've never actually been to florida and i'm going there for worlds which is like super cool because now i can mark florida you know i can say i've into Florida. So like having that excuse to travel places, I really like because and also playing all these tournaments that everyone's always like, well, you got to you got to do this, you got to do that. And like, OK, well, I'll give it a try. And then also you meet up with everybody. It's like the pinball family, right? You get a reunion where every year you see everybody again at this particular show or this particular show. You see kind of this set of people. You know, when when Pinberg was happening, that was kind of like the everyone reunion, right that was yeah sorry i didn't mean to bring that up but no you talk about i never got an opportunity to go so i like when people talk about it and the you're probably one of 30 people have said the same thing that it was like this gigantic family reunion for all the people that went to different shows that they all came together and got to see each other even if they saw that person in florida or the other person in california or whatever the case may be i love yeah yeah i mean it's really cool because you kind of, you know, as far as how the actual tournaments go, a lot of times you'll queue up for something and you'll sit down and you'll have nothing to do, but the guy next to you is in the same boat and you can talk about your bad beats and, you know, oh, how you been doing since the last time? Or, oh, you went to such and such tournament. I saw you did that. Or you can talk about the specific game that you're waiting on. You're like, hey, this thing has been kicking my ass. Do you have any tips? Like what, what, what should I do differently? yeah this game has a tight tilt or whatever the case may be i love that the pinball community i just i've i probably again so much joy within it and i think that you do too but it also leads to another question i have because in your own right you're a pinball celebrity and i think with that there come there can be good and bad in that and are there days i guess do you feel like i just don't want to deal with anybody talking to me about nothing because i just want to be raymond today and go and play and do my thing or is it something where you feel well that's cool do you know what i'm trying to say yeah it's definitely uh it's kind of weird hearing like the subtitle of number one in the world every time my name is mentioned or whatever i'm just like yeah i'm also just raymond yes you are yes right yeah so it's a little it can be much at times but honestly since I've been doing it forever I almost don't even feel like a celebrity I'm just still doing my thing and whether people care or not isn't really relevant to me going to tournaments because I'm going to go to tournaments either way that's right well you're always so nice and kind and approachable to me um since the first time we met at district 82 and I really appreciate that especially again as quote unquote rookie Rachel it's it's just nice to be that that you're very approachable. And that's also one of the best things about pinball, I'll have to say, is that I've not yet met a pinball player at any type of level that hasn't been approachable. And you got to love that. I think most people are out there to support each other. Yeah. With that in mind, this is another question that popped in my head this week. When you sign up for a tournament and you look at, I assume you'll probably, you know, peruse the player list, take a peek who's there are you like oh no kaylee george is coming to coming to play or keith elman's gonna be there or is it just like super rad i get to see all my friends do you ever get nervous i guess is what i'm asking when other players show up um it depends i'm usually not usually i'm more excited to see people i recognize because of like you said i can be like oh cool uh yeah i have you know more people to root for more people to talk to pinball about but then of course you know you will get those group of deaths every once in a while but hey getting getting last in a group of like you know all these names you almost feel like relieved a little bit you're like well i mean look like try i tried okay right no i understand that completely i get that even like you know some of the folks that i play with my only get district 82 are very good players and when i get beat by them it's it's fine because i'm like well at least i gave it my best try and i also but then on the opposite side of that is when i beat those players i feel so freaking amazing i'm gonna keep talking about it forever about the game i'm most in around where i beat cassidy and neil graff and uh i think jesse carpenter was the other player and i beat them both in that game and i'm going to be the happiest girl forever about that because to me that was a big deal you know yeah so you take what you can get so when i do if i would have lost to them i would have actually been okay with that because I probably stood there and watched them play and learn something while they're playing too. I know watching you at tournaments a little bit that you do like to watch the other the other player play the game. I want to make mention what I thought was very interesting on the very last game of the Super Series last October I think it was and the game was Dolly. It was a two bank I believe and the last game was Dolly and I think what was interesting you won their tournament well you won the overall tournament either way but you won that tournament too i believe based upon that game but what was interesting is that you i think that you change methods as to what you're doing after watching the other players i think that you change your course of action and decide to rip the light and rip the spinner instead am i right it definitely you can see kind of what what what feeds are giving people trouble or you can tell like oh the that guy's been nudging it pretty well and hasn't even gotten any warnings like I'm going to keep that in mind when I play so that I can take advantage of that or just by I mean I don't know I honestly a lot of times I just watch because I want to see what happens right? Me too! And then I think I've watched the same game one million times but why am I watching it again? Because I want to learn because I want to learn. There's always still something that you can pluck out of there and I think that's interesting like at any level of player especially watching the game to see how it feeds. What I do think is interesting is when really players such as yourself and very gifted players that they change strategy. They see another really gifted player that's also that's doing something completely different and here they are whipping it up and scoring a lot of points on a game that they might be familiar with. Yeah I mean you know it doesn't really come up all that often because oftentimes you'll actually end up hurting yourself if you change strategies to something that you're not familiar with right but i have had it work in my favor where i'll i'll watch and i'll notice something and i'll be like oh i can do that yeah oh i can definitely do that okay i'm doing that where as other times i'll watch and i'll see someone do something i'm like well that's good for them but i think my i'm better at doing my plan sure so i'm gonna stick with it sure absolutely uh my buddy glenn he's getting a lot of love on this show huh tim we love glenn glenn has these mapped out i don't know what to call him he has like his own little play field that he's he's has drawn out uh as to where he can hit the ball off the flipper in order to make a shot his diagrams i think this is what i'm looking diagrams and flow charts is what he has diagrams and flow charts of glenn and it's fantastic to see that so for me it's interesting because i'm not always looking at i have to ask this question because i'm not always looking at the flipper when i'm flipping the ball to hit a shot if i if the ball is caught up usually then maybe i trapped up then usually i do but sometimes i'm just looking up the field and shooting the ball so i'm just curious as to if you're much more of the method of paying attention to where you're shooting it off your flipper or is it something you just feel it's so natural yeah i usually just go by an internal clock see like a timing of of how long i have to wait before flipping like on deadpool to get the super secret skill or super skill shot on there you know the ball comes around and you're gonna shoot it up the yeah and and i also i kind of will also adjust by oh on this particular game it's it's earlier than you think it is or it's later than you think it is okay and then basically just never miss the same way twice if you're going to miss twice in a row you want to miss early and miss late don't miss early and then miss early again because it means you haven't you haven't adjusted at all so you want to try to you know slowly hone in on on where the shot is by going you know early early up too early okay now later up too late sort of thing all right uh another thing that i've noticed watch now watching on Twitch when I've been at home and I've decided, you know, that's enough of District 82. I've been struck out. I'm going to go home. I can drive my hour home, come home, flip on Twitch, the tournament's still going on. I got to love that. Yep. That's fantastic. And then I join chat. It's great. But what I have noticed and other players have noticed this too, is that you've got this real cool attitude about you on some games. You don't even take a moment. You just walk up to the game, plunge the ball. Now, is that something about just being confident that it, and sometimes the skill shot usually i'm going to say in those games the skill shot doesn't matter or there isn't much of a skill shot or there isn't one um i'm just curious about that to pick that apart do you really feel that confident about the game or you're just like oh let's just get it done i'm usually just impatient and i want to play yes see that's what i figure i'm like i'd be impatient too i'm like especially if you had to wait around for two or three other players they always had five to ten minute balls or whatever it can be forever yeah i appreciate the honesty yeah me too i don't like that cool down period i don't like it i'd rather just be i like playing a head to head match much more than a three or four player what about you yeah it's uh it's definitely a lot more intense like you're playing more often and it's a lot it's it's very binary right you You don't have to think about, oh, man, I just finished my game, and now I have to watch three other people play. I hope they don't all pass me. It's like yes or no, right? You did it or you didn't. That's true, 50-50, right? That's a good way of looking at it. I have been riding the struggle bus, no lie, in terms of competitive playing. Now, when I'm just playing for fun, in terms of playing at home or after playing with TAP or whatever I'm doing, I'm having really good games, having pretty good games, but I'm struggling. and I can't figure out why I'm struggling. And it's okay that I am because I think most players do. It's kind of a roller coaster. I think of it as like you're leveling up, right? So you do the thing, you learn these different skills for a while and then you learn the rule set on the game and you suck for a while because you're so focused on that. At least for me, I get really focused on that and then that's what's going on in my head. So I have this theory, okay, about what it takes to be a good competitive player. And I think that there's three things. And I haven't talked to you, Tim, about this, but I thought Raymond was like the perfect person to chit-chat, give him my thoughts about it. So a player needs three things. So one, definitely skills, right? We don't want to be flipping the flippers at the same time, folks. We want to be able to let the ball, you know, dead flipper, dead bounce over. We want to be able to catch the ball and take a shot. Drew's out. Totally out. Well, maybe not the take a shot part. you know poor drew drew's gone at number one he's out so the skills so that's a big part of it obviously now number two to be a good competitive player you need to know the rules and definitely you know i should where i play there's the most there's over 110 pinball games it takes time to learn all the different rules and nuances to every single game absolutely but you need to know how to light your multi-ball or light your spinner whatever the case may be in order to score the points great rule one or skills rules great i can understand it but number three well wait tim's out rule two so you lost tim and drew okay all right okay well so raymond's still here he's still here okay yep so number three i want to call it a zen state of mind so for me this is like the hardest thing for me to achieve I had Max Senesek tell me I'm like how do you do it when you go up to play he's like I just go up there and I clear my mind and I'm like what's that for me I get trapped in the idea of oh please don't train the ball, please don't be a house ball or maybe it's a negative thought thing that's going on there while I'm saying that out loud but it's also oh I know that I have to do A, B, and C in order to do the thing successfully and I'm struggling and I think that I get caught in my head and then either I finger fumble and I lose the ball or I, I'm, or I chap up and I brick the shot and drain or stuff like that. So I was like, God, I've been just playing so terribly. So do you have any advice in terms of like, what can I do for me to achieve that Raymond Davidson Zen state of mind to go up and play? Hmm. Big, big loaded question there.
    62:46
    No pressure. I, I mean, it's, it's tough. Cause it is, I, I have gotten that state where I'm just – it almost snowballs where if you start out good, it's way easier to stay good and stay in that train, that zen state. And you should totally do that. Like if you're fortunate enough to have a good first ball or you've won your last couple games, ride that as high as you can because that doesn't happen all the time. Right. But what's harder is getting into that state when you've lost a couple times. Yes. And in order to do that, you basically have to kind of throw out all that's happened in the past and just be like, well, starting now. All right, those ones don't count. Starting now, we're going to kick butt. We're going to get the multi-ball. We're going to come in first. It's kind of like if you've ever heard of the – like in gambling terms where someone hits red a whole bunch of times and they're like, well, the next one has to be black. But actually, no. That's right. It could be red again, right? Right. It's all independent. So that's why you actually got to use that to your advantage and be like, well, even though my last couple of balls were house balls, this ball can still be a good ball. And just reset and just forget what happened before and just focus on the now. And that can go a long way if you just kind of just reset and say, okay, those didn't count. They didn't count. That's helpful. that's helpful and I guess that I just have to like people are like Rachel maybe you should do some meditation and I'm like maybe because part of it too is like my brain while I'm playing it also starts to flail around and what I really need to do is just just maintain and just think okay and stay focused and stay stay calm it's like this thing about the inner and outer athlete right like the athlete the athlete I don't know if you want to call call myself that or whatever the the pinball gal that i am that's outside hanging out with the boys relaxing chit-chatting enjoying the breeze that girl who's confident needs to come in and step up and play the game yeah and the one that knows the game and she just needs to come in and play and so i'm you know riding the struggle bus with that so thanks raymond i'm gonna keep reminding myself that you know even i've had a crappy first ball or house ball i just go up and i reset it it's okay i have that whole that whole second or third ball to play so yeah and then when you're not playing you can also try to improve just by thinking of of maybe mistakes you've made or ways you've drained in the past that you're like oh man if i would have not like i hit i hit my flippers in the wrong order or um i did a dead pass when i shouldn't have yes um and just try to or a lot of times you're like man why did i drain that ball and you stop and think and you rewind and you're like oh it's because i i missed that shot and then it hit the sling and i hit the other sling and then i it hit my flipper but instead of doing something i kind of tipped it away and then it kind of caught some weird air and spin and then went down the out lane it's like all right well let's see if if i can improve my accuracy then i don't have to worry about the first first where it goes wrong in the first place. But then second, once it's going crazy, if I can improve the ability to slow the ball down with proper tip passing, dead passing, catching, I can regain control. just like watching other people play and seeing what they do versus what you would do in similar scenarios where if someone misses it, like you'll notice good players still miss shots. Yes. It's just you got to see what they do when they miss a shot and try to absorb it into your own playing. That's incredibly helpful, too, afterwards to really break it apart in my brain. Usually I'm like, ugh, I'm pushing that negativity and that thought away. Yeah, so you got to be careful because you don't want to go too hard in that direction. You don't want to be too negative. Right. But you also, it might subconsciously help you in the long run if you start being more aware and try to improve that way. Yeah. Or you can have different, you can have different goals where you'll do a, okay, for this tournament, I'm really going to reflect after each ball because I want to, I don't care how I do in this tournament. I'm using this as a kind of an experiment to see where I'm at and try to learn from it. Versus sometimes you're in a tournament where your goal is like, this is a big ranking tournament. I want to do my best. And in that case, you know, then you have to stay positive and just try to kick butt and have fun. So you just got to know going into it, which version, which goal you have in mind at a given tournament. because when you mix those, sometimes you can get in those bad states of mind or end up spiraling, you know. Yeah, the spiral. I always have fun. I want to disclaim that I always having fun when I playing because the opportunity to play something that so beautiful most of the games are beautiful The art the speed of the ball all the things that are there the whole package So I think it's always fun. What I get frustrated about, people, when I play, think that I'm angry. When I turn around from the game, people think I'm like, I'm angry, like I'm pissed off and angry or whatever. That's not it, man. I'm like, I'm frustrated because I'm like, Rachel, you knew better. Or I'm like, Magic, screw you. But you know what? That's on me, and I'm irritated about that, but it has nothing to do. You know, pinball is I'm not competing with other people. I'm competing with myself. Hands down. I'm calling BS because you kicked me twice, maybe three times while playing, and you looked at me like I was in your way. You were. I'm like five feet behind you. I wouldn't let it get to you.
    68:49
    I think people understand frustrations. so even though people might look at you or you might think that you're being judged but you're not. Nobody's judging anyone. We're all here to try to beat this stupid game called pinball and sometimes it doesn't go right and we get angry. Thank you. I need to hear that. Absolutely. That's good stuff. You know what I do? Rachel just got me playing tournaments. I've played in like six. I will play at Helicon or one of the Pittsburgh locations, and I will do great. I will catch. I will pass, you know, post-pass. I will do everything right. I will do that in my basement, everything right. As soon as I play in a tournament, I don't do any of it. I like panic flip. You know, I like, you know, like I'll trap up, but I won't do, you know, I won't drop catch and, you know, put the flipper in the right place. So I'm going to have to start to think about what I do because it's kind of fun to play in tournaments. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. And you can kind of ease yourself into doing some of those scary moves in a tournament where maybe, like I said, you're like, okay, this tournament, I'm just going to try doing some of these things, you know, try to get more experience. Because it can be scary doing moves that you – in a tournament, your whole perspective changes where you're just like, you're so much more tense, right? Sure. It's tough. Yeah. Yeah, and I want to play in some of the larger Pittsburgh tournaments, so maybe I'll try just going to the next tournament here at Penn State and be like, all right, I'm going to drop catch today. And every game I'm going to try to drop catch or something along those lines. Well, the Great Lakes Open is coming up, so I actually might approach – and there's so many really great players that are coming to De Pere to play that. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I'm very excited. I'll see you there, Raymond. I'm very excited about that. And I'm actually going to play it. I don't normally like to play these multiple long-day tournaments. I'd rather do the streaming stuff, but I'm going to try to do it. And I am going to do it. So wait, Rachel, before we go on, how come you're not asking me how I feel about being a pinball celebrity?
    70:59
    I don't know. The pinball paparazzi follow me all day long. Oh, yeah? I don't know, man. I don't know. When I was on Backbox, they called me a pinfluencer, and I had to laugh for about a week about that because I don't know how I feel about that. That's cool. That's a really cool compliment, but honestly, I'm just having fun. That's part of it. I stole Drew's line, and I said to my wife, I'm like, how do you feel to be married to a pinball celebrity? And she said, you're an idiot. And she's like, I think she might have said something along the lines, everybody always recognizes Rachel. I've been to like 10 or 15 places. They all say, oh, Rachel. And I'm like, what about Tim? I don't even know. You've got to get to more places. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. I go to a lot of places. I just drink beer and talk to everyone. I don't really play in tournaments. Are you going to make it out to District 82? I might have to. I have a lot of friends in that area of the country now, so there will be many trips. This is my second trip to Milwaukee in six months, so I'm excited about it. Oh, that's nice to me. You're not moving here? No. Drew joked about that for a while. Don't tell Drew anything if you ever meet him. It will end up in the podcast. So that's all I have to say. Okay. So I think that's all my tournament questions. Thanks so much for that and letting me have like a little peek inside of your brain how some of those work, some of those things work. Okay, Ray Day. Am I allowed to ask you about Weird Al's Museum of Natural Hilarity? I know I've heard you say, I believe, that you're a Weird Al fan. Is that true? Yeah. I mean, I have all his albums and I have been to many of his concerts and know all the songs. So I suppose I am a pretty big Weird Al fan. Yeah. Okay. So did you get a chance to play Weird Al yet? I only got to play one game and I kind of sucked at it. Like it was really short ball times. I, you know, didn't really get into a flow of it. But I started, I think, Amish Paradise and hit a couple shots and kind of got the general feel for it. But I would love to get some more time on that game for sure. And also see if there's a way to change it so you can use the flipper buttons not separate for the upper flippers. Yeah, like a stern. You can. I'm getting one, and you can do that. It's a setting. Yeah, so I'd love to play one with that setting because that was just throwing me off. because I'd have to go up for the upper flipper and then I'd feel like I was in danger with my normal flippers, even though you have plenty of time to move your hands back down. But it was just like this mental barrier. But other than that, like I said, I didn't really get a chance to start any multiballs or anything. I just made a couple shots, started a mode. But I've seen a lot of gameplay, and there's a ton of different modes and multiballs. And it looks like there's some cool shots. I like that upper flipper shot up that staircase into the Harvey wheel and whatnot. It's a little weird because when I heard the theme announced, I kind of laughed like, no way. Really? They're doing Weird Al? Like, I never thought Weird Al would ever get a game. And it's kind of tough because it's like I know all his songs. And so when there's only 16 or whatever, I'm like, yeah, but where's this song and this song and this song? Like now I understand everyone's dream theme dilemma of immediately jumping the stuff that's not there, right? The Beatles, man. It has very limited songs on it, and the Beatles had over 270 songs.
    74:41
    Yeah, I needed like 45 songs on Metallica, and it had the same pen. So, yeah, I get it. Yeah, I was just curious if you were excited when you saw that because I got to play it for an hour the other night. My buddy's a distributor, and I got to do the shot you mentioned. And actually the shot that goes around the spiral ramp and then it goes to the top flipper where you shoot it through the back hole and hold up your flipper and it kind of pretzels. And it was a really fun shot. I like Weird Al. I haven't had all his albums, but Amy and I have gone on to dates to Weird Al concerts. Nice. So I was excited and I really enjoyed it. And I did want to ask you about another company. I am a Stern fanboy, but that game caught my attention. I loved it for the hour. I got to play. Yeah, I think it's really cool that Weird Al has his own pinball machine and so now you can listen to Weird Al. Yeah. I can't wait to play it more. I'm a little... Part of the reason I'm not as hyped is that it's going to take forever for me to play one because they have them backordered and if I ordered one it would take a while. I'm so impatient with everything.
    75:53
    I'm sure someone around here will get one and I'll be able to play it soon enough. I'm the same way. I actually told Rachel I loved the Rush Pro, and I contacted my distributor about one, and he said, he's like, I'm thinking June. I'm like, oh, I can't wait that long.
    76:10
    He's like, it's two months. I'm like, I can't wait that long. I need it right now. What about, do you have a demo model? Yeah.
    76:19
    Pinball problems. We all got them of some sort. Yep. Raymond, it was suggested to me that you and I should start our own podcast, and it should be called The Ray Ray Show.
    76:33
    One of the rays spelled A-E? I guess. Well, actually, no, you don't spell your name that way, right? No, it's R-A-C-H-E-L, so there is an E in there. So it could be The Ray Ray Show.
    76:48
    What would you want to talk about on our podcast? I'll say the last 20 minutes ago or so was kind of the Ray Ray show. I feel like we were going off on tournament talk, and Tim was just smiling there in his room. It's going to be another one of those episodes where people said, Tim, what happened to you for the middle of the show? I cannot – purposely, I cannot talk tournament talk. I just got into it, so I let the two masters go at it. We love hearing your tournament updates, though. That's one of my favorite parts of your podcast. Nice. Keep at it. Yeah, keep at it, Tim. Totally. The Ray Ray Show. What would you want to talk about on the Ray Ray Show if there was such a podcast? Probably tournaments.
    77:30
    Well, just pinball. You know, there's other things that we can talk about, too. Like I do have other hobbies other than pinball. I see you have some cats walking around. Do I really? They were earlier. Oh, Rigby. I think she knocked the treats off the baker's rack because it's feeding time and she's letting me know. But yes, I have Rigby and Hemi. You have your kitty Misty. Yeah, she's funny because she always has food available, but she'll only eat it if you stand there and watch her. So sometimes she'll just come up to you and meow, and you're like, what, what do you want? Oh, you want me to watch you eat. Okay, so I go over and I watch her eat. Is she an older cat, an older rescue? Yeah, she's, I don't know how old she is, but she's not like a spring chicken. She's, you know, at least four, five, six, maybe. probably more like eight i just read that recently there are some rescue cats that they need to have that reassurance when they eat that they need to be petted i just actually watched a video yeah i think she uh the house i got her from had a bunch of other animals before i got her so i think she was kind of neglected or felt unsafe because of everyone trying to eat her food so now yeah i guess that's how she is but does she struggle up with you every night uh she would if i let her probably but i don't like her in the bed while i'm sleeping just all right it's hard to fall asleep if you know there's someone or something that can moving around yeah my younger cat rigby she does definitely she's six but she does like to attack me and so i usually have claw marks on my hands because in the middle of the night i'm shoving her over and she just latches on she's like i'm laying here lady you know and i'm in a king bed by myself so I don't know how that works.
    79:10
    When I let Jack into the room, we have two cats. Actually, we have three. We rescued a cat, but we have Jack, Sally, and Kenny. Jack and Sally are both females because Amy Lee couldn't tell the difference, but that's a story for a different day. She thought we had a boy, but we didn't have a boy, so we have Jack and Sally. But Amy gets so mad when I let Jack in the room because Jack will rub your face in the middle of the night at 3 a.m. you know she'll be like rubbing your face or licking you yeah i don't get what that is because misty will do that too she'll just come up to you and just like yeah just like hi she's like i'm still here you're still here how about we cuddle how about we play yeah i love it no the reason why i joke a little bit about that too is like i do have other hobbies right so yeah i got my kitties i'm a little bit of a crazy cat lady and i do i like to knit crochet and cook and I like to read. I'm an avid reader. I listen to audiobooks. I'm a puzzler and other stuff, too. Absolutely listen to music. So I always think there's more. Like Tim said earlier, it's more about getting to know you as Raymond. The other thing that I wanted to ask you, and you did have a good response here in our little pre-interview questionnaire that I sent you. Because believe it or not, folks, I actually did my homework and research for this episode. Woo! I did not. I wanted to ask you a little bit about Rareware music and its effect in your life. Now, Rareware makes several, I don't know if they're still making games, you'll have to correct me, but you pointed out specifically, and I listened to them this week, Darkmoon Caverns from Diddy Kong Racing. Do I have that right? Yes. And I listened to the Stickerbush Symphony from DK Country 2. Now, I will tell you, those are both, I thought they were both fantastic songs. And this is part of the reason why I wanted to ask you if you had siblings and what the age order is. Because I appreciate your love for that type of music and the orchestration, all that goes into it. For me growing up, being a middle child, the game was The Secret of Mana. Now, my sister has probably played through that game 15 times. I probably played through it four or five, and my brother did too. We all really love that game. We all really love that music. So based upon that, Raymond, it prompted me to go out and listen to the best of The Secret of Man and Music. Now, what a trip that was, is for me, because I had, that was a lot of really good nostalgic memories for me to listen to that. But then it also made me think about playing video games with my siblings, because my siblings, my older brother and a younger sister, my older brother, August, what he would do is because he was the oldest, he'd be the player, you know. So my sister and I did a lot of watching of video games when we were younger until we were able to beat him down and get the remote or get a hold of the controller. So my question for you, after that whole huge setup, we can talk about the music too. But I'm curious, were you generous with your sister if there were video games, if you shared the controller with her or you shared the remote and those kind of things? uh i mean she's she was five years younger than me so she wasn't we were never really okay like i don't think she had really gotten into video games or was old enough to kind of comprehend them when i was because you know i would have been like 10 and she would have been like five okay so wasn't quite the right age appropriate uh for that but you know i eventually i vaguely remember you know trying to get her to play or or or see me play be like hey look it's it's banjo kazooie and yeah she would kind of watch or whatever but like i said like like she is with pinball she just i don't know she kind of yeah doesn't really latch on to things the way i do like i i have like kind of an addictive personality i guess you'd say where i find stuff i like and i really you know dive in and she's kind of the more jack-of-all-trades just kind of doesn't really work that way so it never really came up too much yeah both my siblings are big video game folks or they were big video game folks so that's that's teetered off a little bit as they've gotten older but it's interesting because they found it funny that I never was really into that but I'm really into the pinball thing and I always like to remind them to my sister also plays pinball out in Columbus, Ohio, Rebecca. Oh, cool. Yeah. And she, for her, she's a newer player than I am. And for her, I think it's the idea like pinball is also so much, it's the same, but it's also so much more random and chaos. With a video game, you can play it through. It's usually going to be the same outcome, right? Or you can collect X amount of coins in Mario or whatever. But with pinball, there's so much more depth to it. I just think it's interesting how, you know, video games and pinball, how that can kind of all relate to each other in its own way, I guess is what I'm going with there. Video games that have the best replay value are probably the ones that have the more random elements or things that can happen in different orders. Whereas pinball, that's innately built into the game, right? You never know what order you're going to do anything in or if you're even going to survive long enough. Right. I did not want to start my multivolve because I was out of mode on Guardians, but, you know, I just accidentally hit Groot and I hit it too early, and whatever. We're going to get a really crappy super jackpot now, but we're going to roll with it, right? Yeah, and so I find in video games what I like the most are similar scenarios where it's like, oh crap, I'm at one health and I have 90 of the 100 musical notes. If I lose my last health, I'm going to have to get all 100. so normally I don't care about these beehives or killing enemies, but now I need some health right now or I'm going to die. Right. So it kind of can change your focus and kind of hook you. Whereas instead you decide to take your shot and you brick and drain. So that's a good comparison. You know, that statement reminded me of something, Rachel, which is totally just kind of bizarre. My son has to do like a persuasive paper in college, and his topic is he has to persuade people that pinball is better than video games oh so i was giving him some tips earlier today at dinner because everyone loves video games and he loves video games so it just kind of popped into my head i forgot to tell you so i don't know maybe if you have any tips we can uh like pinball is better than video games yeah why it's more fun to play like why people should play pinball yeah that's what i said yeah yep yeah yeah and i yeah Yeah, and so it feels even more sweet when you do good at it because you're like, even though it's random, I found a way and I did well this time. I was able to control the ball and make it do what I wanted to do. I had a goal of getting a big super jackpot or whatever and I was able to do it. So, yeah, I think it's a sweeter feeling and a sweeter reward versus something that's much more mapped out. So I think that's a big part of it for me. I just love it. I love all of it. And Tim, I think you say it's about the pinball relationships. And that's a big part of it for me, too, is I like being able to get to know people, meet them. And I like to hear where they're from, what they're doing. And it doesn't even have to be pinball related. I'm also a person where I'm open. Like, you want to talk about your cats today? Cool. We can talk about that. You want to talk about your granddaughter and the surgery she's having? Sure. We can talk about that. You need a hug today? Let's do it. you know so that's to me i like to i like to learn all about you not just about the pinball stuff but i don't know what other questions do you have tim i think we covered them all did we do it whoo whoo raymond do you have any questions for us uh i guess next time i'll so i'll see you at great lakes uh yeah rachel let's see if it's open i don't know when maybe i might be at mgc we'll see i'm not sure yet but if i am there i'm sure I will find Tim. Sounds like you're going. Yes. And I'm guessing you're not going to come down because you're probably a little afraid, right? Ah.
    87:26
    Drive all the way up to Milwaukee just to lose to Tim Lee. Yeah, yeah. You listen to the show. You know I'm full of bullshit. Totally. 100%. Tim's the one. Tim's the one, everyone. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. And my wife, she'll be with me and she'll tell you how I am. So no. Hey, I appreciate you coming on to Tribe Multiball. I appreciate you breaking out into the new Ray Ray segment where you all talked about tournament play. I love listening, but I can't really talk to it yet. Maybe someday, but no. We really appreciate you being on the show. I am a fanboy of all Stern coders. You in general love seeing a younger gentleman getting into coding and getting into pinball. you know two things i love so that's why i've always caught your streams and so forth and why i asked rachel to approach you about being on the show so we're very appreciative um hopefully we weren't too over over the top this is the the the more tame of the poor men shows so well yeah thanks thanks for having me on guys it was uh really fun and uh i always love looking forward to your episodes and i'm glad i could be on one thank you and i want to ask one question before Just one more question before we end. Is that really a Beatles behind you, or is there something else in a Beatles cabinet? It is a Beatles, yes. Okay. With a Beatles play field and back glass and everything. Oh, Tim. Let's try to get the scoop. Yeah, I wasn't going to ask, but I've heard a couple of Stern folks in the past say that, you know, they have a game that's in a different cabinet. So, all right. Thank you, Raymond. Thank you, Tim. Thanks, Raymond. All right. Love you, Rachel. Thank you, Rachel. Yeah, you're welcome. Happy flipping. And Drew sucks at pinball.
    89:41
    Thank you.